Let's Be The Wives Of Henry the 8th

OP - two of his wives' names were Katherine of Aragon and Anne of Cleves, I don't between Aragorn and Cleves were last names

JUANA LA LOCA FTW

Anne Berlin had six fingers...

He owned the early me-too movement.

[quote]OP - two of his wives' names were Katherine of Aragon and Anne of Cleves, I don't between Aragorn and Cleves were last names

I know that. I was just abbreviating to save room on the interwebs.

Hands down Anne of Cleves. She played it smart and gave him the divorce he wanted. In the bargain, she got a nice manor house, servants, big income producing bank, and her head.

Sadly Katherine Parr won nothing. She survived Henry but then she married a duplicitous man who was after her fortune (from previous marriages). Thomas Seymour, dashing brother of Jane. Katherine discovered him playing erotic games with Elizabeth Tudor (who was age 13). Elizabeth was packed off. Poor Katherine died of sepsis two weeks after giving birth.

Anne of Cleves was the real winner. Henry was grateful to her for accepting her new role as his "sister". He gifted her a grand house and a pension, which allowed her independence from her odious family and from control by a husband. She loved fine clothing, jewelry and hosting fabulous parties. She couldn't marry again, but didn't seem to care. Saved her from dying in childbirth.

[quote]Katherine discovered him playing erotic games with Elizabeth Tudor (who was age 13).

She was a slut, a whoor, a strumpet who caused too many problems and should have been thrown in the Thames at birth.

Yeah, Anne of Cleves came out the big winner. She just gave Henry an annulment when she wanted one, and he was SO grateful that he made her independently wealthy and a friend of the royal family for life. She was one of the few women in 16th century Europe able to live on her own terms (as long as she didn't want to remarry, and she didn't).

Of course Katherine of Aragon would have been well-advised to do the same, but I can see why she didn't. If she could block the divorce, then she had a 50/50 chance of outliving Henry and seeing her daughter crowned queen when he died. As it happened she predeceased Henry and that's a bet she would have lost, but I can't say she was stupid to try. If she'd just granted the divorce Henry would have put her on the first boat to Spain or locked her up in a convent, he hadn't learned to be grateful for an easy divorce in those days.

But Katherine of Aragon brought her own "royalty" to the marriage. She had already been married to his brother and she came from some wealth.

Katherine of Aragon was the youngest daughter of King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella of Castille who bank rolled Columbus' excursion to the "new world."

But R10, Katherine of Aragon had no money of her own, and her royal parents never financed her, she ran out of money when she was young and between husbands, and again when she was old and Henry had discarded her.

Yes, she was a princess royal and both a princess and a queen by marriage, but still financially dependent.

Anne Boleyn, fiery minx Kathryn Howard, teenager in over her head

These two were related and the two who lost their heads. Boleyn's father and uncle set up getting Anne Boleyn to a position to marry good old Henry. Her sister had gone before as a mistress and I think had an illegitimate child with Henry. Anne learned that she needed to hold out. It didn't work out for her though. And her father and uncle were cowards and didn't support her at the end.

Katheryn Howard was foolish and young.

I read that Henry actually loved Jane Seymour. Who knows what would have happened if she had lived. And Katherine of Aragon was one tough cookie.

I am the suppurating wound on Henry"s leg that never quite heals.

I am Anne of Cleve's body odor, much lamented by Henry.

LOL - Henry caught the distasteful look on Anne of Cleves' face while smelling HIM and then told everyone that her pussy stank! LMAO

I am Anne Boleyn's numerous moles and birthmarks which caused many to suspect Anne was a witch.

Catherine of Aragon was a pretty impressive character. She was the first official female diplomat in history when she officially represented Spain at the English court. She also ran the country in Henry's absence - not only just in name.

It's sad she's remembered as some kind of religious nutter - she was highly intelligent and it has been argued she had a better claim to the English throne than Henry himself through her lineage of John of Gaunt.

I am the putrid stench emanating from Henry's doublet.

And I am that putrid stench squared emanating from his cod piece.

Spellcheck:

Catherine of Aragon

Anne Boleyn

Jane Seymour

Anne of Cleves

Catherine Howard

Catherine Parr

BTW, Catherin spelled with a K didn't become popular until the 20th century.

I am the Groom of the Codpiece.

All of the strange tales about Anne Boleyn (extra fingers, nipples etc) was propaganda spread by pro-Tudor factions.

Anne accompanied her father to the French court where she served as Lady in Waiting to Queen Claude. Anne was savvy, intelligent, multilingual and avoided being seduced by Francis I, unlike her sister Mary. She learned diplomacy and how to manage royals during her stay in France.

Anne died not die due to not giving birth to a male child or being unfaithful. At that time, the court was based on faction politics. The crafty Thomas Cromwell launched an anti Boleyn faction war and prevailed. Cromwell never forgave the Boleyns for being involved with the fall of his mentor, Bishop Wolsey, as well as other members of his faction.

There is no credible evidence that Anne was unfaithful. She championed the cause of the Reformation of the Catholic Church -a diseased and corrupt institution. Her greatest gift to England was her daughter - like her mother, intelligent, and a Protestant reformer.

Poor Catherine/Katherine Parr. Regardless of the spelling of her name, she died a tragic death of postpartum sepsis after finding out her husband Thomas Seymour was plotting to marry Elizabeth Tudor. The future Elizabeth Regina was no fool and made her cause:

"In June 1548, Katherine wrote to Seymour, and asked Elizabeth to arrange a messenger to get the letter to him. Elizabeth wrote on the outside of the letter, in Latin, “Thou, touch me not”, then deleted it, and wrote instead, “Let him not touch me” – suggesting his advances were unwanted, but that she feared to speak too directly to him about it."

Seymour was arrested for treason for trying to marry Elizabeth and she successfully defended herself from involvement with his plot. He was executed and, well, Elizabeth went on to be crowned Queen of England, Ireland and France from 7 September 1533 – 24 March 1603.

Yes, R46, most historians now say that Anne B. was totally innocent of the charges against her, she wasn't a witch, she wasn't deformed, and she wasn't unfaithful. But Henry was so fucking done with her and her failure to produce a male child that he was willing to railroad and judicially murder her.

Funny, nobody says that about Catherine Howard. As far as I know, she really was stupid enough to fuck around on Henry.

I thought that Thomas Seymour was arrested and executed for treason because he tried to kidnap the young King Edward VI, arranging a marriage between the King and Lady Jane Grey.

People act surprised that Henry chopped off the heads of two of his wives. Let's not forget, this guy told the pope to fuck off so he could divorce his first wife. England went from a Catholic nation to a Protestant one because Hank wanted to dip his wick in some new wax. Dude was not playing.

The charges against Anne B were not just that she was unfaithful but that she was unfaithful with HER brother...

Henry VII love JANE SEYMOUR? Wow - she looks GREAT for her age!

I was impressed with the depth of knowledge of English history from the earlier posters on this thread. Then, fools like R27 and R29 bring me back to the moronic reality of this place.

I'm Lady Jane Gray, the six day queen. Yeah, I didn't fuck Henry but I did fuck up royally.

I'm the inane and bizarrely popular musical SIX - coming to Broadway in 2020!

Off-topic, but, before I watched "Wolf Hall" starring Mark Rylance I would have scrolled past this thread, but now I love reading this stuff.

I’m Anne Boleyn. I lose my head, but I give England one of its most beloved monarchs in the person of my daughter, Elizabeth I. I’m also mentioned in a 90s Blues Traveler hit song.

Henry and his two daughters were monsters on the level of Stalin. Like him they were building a new kind of country.

I don't think Elizabeth was a monster R35. She led GB into its Golden Age.

Henry went off to France leaving Katherine of Aragon as regent. He sent her the trophies of the Battle of the Spurs, an inconsequential victory; in return she sent him 'the shirt of a dead king', James IV of Scotland, killed at Flodden, making the usual mistake of Scottish kings, invading on the assumption no-one was left to defend England when the king was abroad. David II had done this in the 14th century and was defeated and captured by an army led by the archbishop of York.

Elizabeth murdered Catholics during her reign.

My neck hurts.

Anne of Cleves really was the luckiest of the six. She didn't really have to sleep with Henry, kept her head, and got to live out her life in the lap of luxury and as one of the most prominent women in the kingdom as the "King's beloved sister."

R40 You apparently are not reading the posts on this thread.

I posted this much earlier:

Anne of Cleves was the real winner. Henry was grateful to her for accepting her new role as his "sister". He gifted her a grand house and a pension, which allowed her independence from her odious family and from control by a husband. She loved fine clothing, jewelry and hosting fabulous parties. She couldn't marry again, but didn't seem to care. Saved her from dying in childbirth

R41 Yes I was just adding my support for her, being the best off.

[quote] Elizabeth murdered Catholics during her reign.

Mary murdered Protestants.

Last wife Catherine Parr could have been just as lucky as Anne of Cleves, Henry undoubtedly left her money and castles and she could have lived as luxuriously and independently as Anne if she'd wanted to. Catherine had been widowed three times, and a lot of woman in her position would have just wanted some independence and peace of mind. It was hers for the asking.

But no, she had to marry a dirtbag who was after her young stepdaughter! Her first three marriages brought her no happiness, the fourth brought her abject misery.

Anne Boleyn. Yes, she lost her head, but the Church of England exists because of HER. She is still known to this day, and she gave birth to the greatest monarch in English history.

She was hardly the greatest monarch but you do you.

Who would be greater?

Surprisingly (as she’s one i’m less familiar with), I was most affected by the story of Catherine Howard in THE TUDORS.

Her story was really well presented, dramatically, and faultlessly played.

Really a girl in over her head....

Poor Catherine Howard was only 18 or19 when she was executed.

Six Wives of Henry VIII is on today all three episodes starting at 3pm Eastern

Oops! On PBS

The one marriage I don't have a good understanding of was the Katherine Howard fiasco. Why the hell did Henry marry her, he just wanted a young piece of ass or a fresh womb? Or were there political concerns? Did she really fuck around behind his back like an idiot, or did he just want to get rid of her like he did Anne B?

Really, Henry was so fixated on breeding a son that the sensible thing to do at that point was marry a widow who'd proven herself fertile*. But no.... his narcissistic ego could bear that, even if he was old and fat and sick and impotent, he had to think of himself as the virgin-busting stud!

That WHORE Anne Boleyn!

It's CATHERINE, hussies!

Anyway, Catherine was supposedly very pretty, and quite the fun-loving gal, which probably appealed to the aging Henry. Oddly, she had quite the checkered sexual past, but it's Anne Boleyn who got labeled with the name whore

Howard was already hoin' around before Henry got to her. Once a ho..... Once married, she had the gall to start fucking around with Thomas Culpepper with Henry still within the palace walls. Chick was BOLD!

[quote]Chick was BOLD!

It was fun while it lasted.

Gingers are always difficult to live with.

Security guards at Hampton Court say Howard's ghost haunts the halls still begging Henry.

The ghost of Jane Seymour has also been reported at Hampton Palace, along the Silverstick stairs that lead to the chamber where she died after childbirth.

I saw a documentary which asserted that Katharine of Aragon had an eating disorder--she would go without eating for days while fasting and praying, and while this was admired as pious at the time, it probably affected her fertility in a major way.

If Henry had been a strategist, he would have married his daughter Mary off to a loyal retainer when she was still quite young and fertile. That way, he might have gotten grandsons even if he couldn't produce a son. Henry was so powerful--and the times so against female rulers--that it would have been easy enough for him to skip Mary in the line of succession and go straight to his grandson. Even if it caused him some trouble to get her to abdicate in favor of her son, it couldn't have been nearly as difficult as wrenching England away from the Catholic church. Mary was also born early enough in his reign that if he'd married her off young, he could have had an adult grandson (well, a 15- or 16-year-old, which WAS considered adult in that era) waiting in the wings when he was old and sick.

But Henry, though many things, was a shit strategist. It's why he had so few military victories during his reign. He was so obsessed with his own fertility that the grandson-insurance policy no doubt never occurred to him.

I feel sorry for young Elizabeth. If you look at her clothing choices as Queen, they scream, Don't fucking touch me. And if her guardian was molesting her at a young age, no wonder she never wanted to marry.

"He was so obsessed with his own fertility that the grandson-insurance policy no doubt never occurred to him. "

You're absolutely right, marrying Mary off and hoping she produced grandsons would have been sensible, and would also have been the right thing to do by his only legitimate daughter (at the time). By all accounts Mary really wanted to be married and have kids, and as things turned out she wasn't able to marry until she was 38 and unable to bear children.

I really wonder why Henry didn't marry her off, or give her the sort of top-flight education Elizabeth later received, or, well, do anything at all for her. He just sort of kept her around, doing nothing. Did he despise her? Was he angry at her for being a girl? Did he forget or discount her existence? Or was he afraid that a son-in-law or grandsons would have too much power for his taste, and start another War of the Roses?

Henry tried several times to marry Mary off, but for one reason or another, they fell through. Then after Henry divorced her mother, Mary was declared illegitimate, so she wasn't a prime get on the marriage market. She also pissed off her father by refusing to acknowledge Anne Boleyn as the queen.

Henry VIII was hard-core through and through. Above all else at all times he was first the King - before husband, father, friend. Talk of the wives he had killed is nothing compared to all the other people he murdered. He completely decimated the Catholic church and all the monasteries, taking all its wealth for himself. He destroyed all crosses and religious art depicting Christ, putting his own initials and coat of arms in their place - "no graven images."

Also, there was the whole Catholic/Protestant issue. Henry was fine disowning Mary because it got him out of the tenets of the Catholic Church.

I’d want to be Anne Boleyn. Yes there’s the whole beheading thing but life was short back then anyway. She’s still remembered as a legendary hard-hearted schemer who aimed for the moon and got it, for a while.

R28 Anne was falsely accused of fucking 6 different men, including her brother.

R52 Howard was a teenage girl, with all the maturity lacking therein. She'd already had boyfriends before she caught Henry's eye and she foolishly fucked around on the king.

Jane Seymour was remembered well by the king because she did her duty by having a boy and she died before he could get bored of her. If she had had a girl, he would've dumped her eventually. The question is would she have been smart like Cleves.

Poor Henry. His mother had seven children. Her mother had twelve. HER mother had fourteen. Family luck ran out. His sister Margaret was similarly unlucky. 6 babies by her first husband, one made it to adulthood.

What about Edward? The world would be a very different place had he not died at age 15. He was betrothed to Mary of Scotland but would that marriage have gone through? Could he have dealt with Spain as well as Elizabeth had?

Can't right now. I have a headache.

Edward was under control of his Seymour uncles and was a sickly consumptive. Contrast him with Edward IV, who at 15 was riding out to battle against the Lannisters.

There weren't any Lannisters in Medieval England, R71.

Who did you really mean?

I assumed that was a joke, R72.

There's no contemporary evidence that Edward VI was a long-time sickly consumptive, quite the reverse. He was healthy and active for most of his life. He just caught something in his early teens that contemporary medicine had no response to, possibly TB but bronchopneumonia .has also bee suggested. Both Seymour uncles were gone by the time he died. His so-called Journal shows him to be intelligent and very interested in most aspects of government. He was very interested in the coinage, for example, which his father's debasement policies had left in a bad state.

[But [R10], Katherine of Aragon had no money of her own, and her royal parents never financed her, she ran out of money when she was young and between husbands, and again when she was old and Henry had discarded her.Yes, she was a princess royal and both a princess and a queen by marriage, but still financially dependent.

Will you fuck off back to spazzing about Meghan Markle, silly frau at R12 who pretends she's some sort of insider?

K of A had a huge dowry, for a start, funded by her parents.

The dowry went to the husband who in return assigned land and income as dower to the queen, which in England normally made her equal in wealth to the richest peers. I once read an interesting article about how the Yorkist and early Tudor queens ran their estates. After the 'divorce' Henry did assign Katherine of Aragon property and income theoretically due to her as 'dowager princess of Wales', though probably not as much as she was really due by the terms of the original marriage contract with Prince Arthur.

We are all of them!