Johnny Carson and Joan Rivers

I thought she found out that he dropped her from his list of stand-ins when he was on vacation.

What's interesting too is that though she was joking she had been at Charles and Diana's royal wedding in the routine, she actually even then was obsessed with the royal family and worked her way into Charles's and Camilla's confidences by saying she sided with them during the long period of the break-up with Diana (this was very rare--most people sided with Diana). I know she became friends with Charles and Camilla, and I think she was actually invited either to their wedding or to their reception in 2005.

Joan's making fun of very famous celebrities in her stand-up routine was rare during this period, and she was copied by many others who later did it (like Margaret Cho and, especially, Kathy Griffin). It was one of Joan's signatures, along with "Can we talk?" and "Grow up!"

Funny, I was on YouTube the other night, saw a clip of the two of them, and thought how sad it was that thekr friendship ended so badly. They really did love each other--or so it seemed. I do believe Joan's side of it and I do believe her heart was broken by his refusal to hear her apology and his inability to understand why she felt she had to take Fox's offer.

[quote] Many in 1986, including top executives at NBC, thought it was possible that Johnny Carson would retire after reaching his 25th anniversary on October 1, 1987, as it was such a logical cut-off point. In spring 1986, a confidential memo between top NBC executives listing about 10 possible successors in the event of Carson's retirement the next year was leaked. Rivers was shocked to see that she was not on the list.

[quote] In an article she wrote for People magazine, Rivers said that NBC offered her only a one-year contract in 1985 as permanent guest host while Carson's contract had been renewed for two years, which signaled to her that her future was uncertain as her previous one year contracts had run the same length as Carson's. In addition, Rivers noted numerous snubs from NBC executives over the years, such as not being invited to the annual Carson party until recently, and taking the fall for a controversial joke that management approved during rehearsal. Rivers had received higher-paying offers from other networks in prior years but declined them out of her loyalty to Carson, but in 1986 as NBC was unwilling to give assurances on her future and negotiations were fruitless, this was the impetus for Rivers to seriously consider the Fox offer.[1] Rivers and Carson

[quote] Fox was looking for a host for a late-night talk show for the network's launch in October 1986 and offered Rivers the job at a salary higher than what NBC was paying. She accepted, and Carson was blindsided by the news when he saw the press conference on television. Moments later, when Rivers called him at home, he refused to take the call.

[quote] Carson was furious when he found out about Rivers going to Fox. Carson stated that he felt betrayed by Rivers – not because she dared to compete with him, but because she was not honest with him beforehand about her intentions and did not ask him for advice and his blessing. For her part, Rivers was adamant that her problem was with NBC and not with Carson, who was like a father figure to her. She stated that she didn't want to tell Carson before the announcement was made because she was afraid Fox would cancel the deal if word leaked out. She had previously been ordered by Carson's producers and lawyers not to go to him with her problems, as they kept Carson completely insulated since he was a major source of NBC profits, thus Carson had been completely unaware of Rivers' problems with NBC.

Her story doesn't fully make sense--if her problem really was with the producers at NBC and not with Carson himself, then why did she not tell him directly beforehand and just disobey the orders of his producers at NBC not to bother him?

Joan and Johnny were magic together.

OP: Joan was so damn funny in that clip. 12 minutes of nonstop laugh out loud.

She made the mistake of not calling him beforehand with the news. She should have just screwed NBC and talked about it with Carson. He was understandably hurt.

That being said, he should have let it go, especially after Edgar committed suicide. That whole year was a disaster for her, and she came out of it ruined. He should have been the bigger person and extended an olive branch. To her credit, she reached out many times to him, including after his kid passed. There was no reason why he couldn't have had her, especially the last year. And then Leno with his two faced ass continues blacklisting her. At least Jimmy Fallon made it right.

My favorite part of the clip is when she starts to tell the lobotomy joke, and he reacts so hilariously to the anticipation of the punchline that she can't even get it out for a while!

I also how he just loses it at the end when she does her Brenda Vaccaro imitation! Now THAT'S something you have to be of a certain age to remember!

Ugh, Terri Garr and David d Letterman, what ever did he see in her? The only time I found her remotely interesting was in After Hours.

I always loved Johnny (note that Joan always called him, "John") but whenever she guest hosted, I would always set the VCR. I was just thirteen or twelve at the time when I started doing that and I would have to explain, "I'm taping The Tonight Show. Carson's on vacation again and Joan Rivers is guest hosting."

(My parents had no right to act surprised when they found out I was gay.)

Johnny Carson was a mean bitter drunk who died alone (estranged from last wife , best friend, and sons). He perceived betrayal, held a grudge. and you were done. Petty and vindictive. Hated fame. A true loner.

Joan received shabby treatment from J. Carson, no doubt about it, but , here's the thing, she wouldn't let go of it, even after Carson's death. Joan had her talk show, it flopped, and she blamed everyone but herself.

I was a fan of Joan for years until I saw her in "Piece of Work", it really put me off her. Joan came off as the female version of Donald Trump, with over the top, Marie Antoinette-type decor in her home, and , like Trump, a crass, bitter grudge-holder. Joan brought up supporting friends and charities, they actually filmed her signing checks (so tacky)! Warning to the famous: Never take part in a documentary about yourself.

I agree she was a mess at the end. But in this period, the late 70s-early 90s, she was at her best.

Johnny was God. Joan was lost, then she turned total nasty cunt. It worked for her

I always thought Joan took a page out of the Bette Midler playbook, 'Mud Will Be Flung Tonight', which was endlessly nasty, but Bette moved away into Wind beneath my Wings land, and Joan took over being a nasty cunt

The elephant in the room was Joan's husband, Edgar. If Joan had had a good manager (someone who she was not married to), things might have turned out differently. She admitted that she ended up siding with her husband and that that was the end of her Fox talk show (IIRC). (Fox wanted to get rid of Edgar.)

I don't think Joan's comedy was *ever* funny, e.g., "Fashion Police." I didn't watch her as a guest host on "Johnny Carson." She is an excellent interviewer (e.g., "In Bed with Joan Rivers"). She asks really good questions and doesn't make the interview all about herself.

Joan interviews Henry Bushkin, Carson's "attorney," who wrote a book about Carson. IMO, interesting interview.

R16 And Edgar ended up having to kill himself to get the fuck away from the car wash cunt

Its fascinating that she got over Edgar's suicide a lot faster than the Carson snub, which she never got over. It was always a primary topic whenever she spoke but no one ever asked Carson about her. A while after Rivers did her book that she dedicated to him, he reportedly had it prominently displayed in his home after the firing.

Freddy DeCordova took a few swings at her in his book, disputing a lot of what she tried to make her history. He ultimately said that everyone has to do what is best for them, but you should be professional and nice about it to people who helped you. He reveals that after she was fired from Fox, she tried to get booked back on Carson the following week. She kept insisting how great the ratings would be.

When did she start making fun of celebrities? Her spots on Ed Sullivan were all about her. There was no celebrity talk.

By the early 80's, the Elizabeth Taylor fat jokes had become a staple of her act, and she was also taking swipes at Bo Derek, and Victoria Principal (probably her first big celebrity feud).

R20 Yessss, but then she just got nasty, and wit left the building

There is a great documentary on PBS American Masters about Carson. Warts and all.

Kathy Griffin just lifted Joan's whole shtick, huh.

And the irony of that, R19, is that Carson eventually cut off Fred de Cordova, too.

There was a poster here some time ago who said she was related to Soupy Sales. She claims Johnny treated Soupy like shit. Considering Johnny’s reputation, it wouldn’t surprise me one bit.

We've had great threads about this in the past. I suggest looking them up. On one of them, someone made the point that all this animosity from Carson came about due to his treatment of Rivers as a possession. In his mind, he owned her, and that was the root of the sense of betrayal he felt. I wasn't there, however, this does seem true to me. Perhaps this was the closest expression of real love that Carson ever felt for a woman, even surpassing Joanna.

R26, Carson had many female protégées, including Midler and Streisand. Rivers crossed him by lying and then setting herself up as his competition. That's not possession on his part, it's betrayal on her part.

[quote] and taking the fall for a controversial joke that management approved during rehearsal.

What was the joke she told?

No, not like Rivers, R27. You're way off in my opinion. However, we can agree to disagree.

Streisand was never a Carson protegee. She did his show a couple of times at the beginning of her career, but she got noticed doing guest hosting stints on Mike Wallace's PM East.

Midler was however.

Streisand also blew Carson off the moment she it big.

Midler remained loyal to the last episode.

Midler also threw in a joke about Joan Rivers on her last appearance on Carson.

Bitch.

Don't forget ME!

R33 has unearthed the DL National Anthem!

All rise for Donna Theodore!

Rivers didn't just leave, she became a Carson competitor and at the same time. It didn't help that she tried hiring away the Tonight Show Staff. She claimed to have found an NBC document naming potential Tonight Show replacement hosts after Carson and her name wasn't on it. Why didn't she go to Carson about it instead of setting up a backstabbing deal that betrayed him, not NBC, whom she claimed to have been upset by. DeCordova said that she handled the entire situation badly and unprofessionally and when called on it, she turned into a wide eyed victim. He said that in her own mind, if she had to, she'd admit it was tacky. Rivers finally backtracked and said she would have handled things differently on the Carson American Masters edition. She got fired by Fox, her husband committed suicide and she was unemployable for almost a decade. No shit she would have done things differently.

Jack Paar was an arsehole. The way he spoke of Judy here is revolting.

Johnny was a very insecure screwed up man, also a drunk. Please, no excuses .

Johnny Carson was the complete opposite of his genial, laid-back public image. In reality he was a bitter, miserable alcoholic with a mean streak a mile wide. A nasty, nasty drunk.

"They naming the park across the street from NBC Studios after me. Quite an honor. I understand the water that's comes out of the drinking fountains will be cool and aloof!"

I read Bushkin's book. Johnny was miserable. Took no joy in his success whatsoever. I don't understand people like that at all.

Here, Joan tries to come to terms with Johnny's role in her life. And fails. It's so sad that they're both gone now, and none of that bullshit matters.

Rest in Peace, Johnny and Joan.

R39, And of course, Joan needed to do that on camera.

I always wondered why she and Ben Stein hated each other since they are/were both right wing cunts. That article he wrote in Esquire was a pretty devastating takedown and her reaction proved Joan can dish it out but can't take it.

R33, with Donna Theodore. This is precisely how I imagine our Webmistress, Muriel.

Joan had some right wing tendencies, but Stein is a hateful conservative wackjob. I don't put much stock in anything he writes or says. And didn't Joan try and sue for libel at the time?

"Someone is hiding behind the name BERT HACKER"

Joan Rivers was a very insecure screwed up woman, also addicted to plastic surgery. Please, no excuses for her either.

"Joan had some right wing tendencies"

Joan was a New York Republican = liberal on most everything except taxes. I always say to these people, if that's how you feel why in the fucking hell do you live in NYC??? One of Joan's jokes was she thought abortion should be retroactive.

Yes, Joan was a "piece of work" (the title of a documentary bio she participated in), but Joan had MANNERS, and could apologize if necessary. Carson couldn't, too much egocentric boozy pride. Ben Stein is beneath contempt. Although I think Stein came out and admitted he voted for Hillary in 2016, I believe they went to law school together.

Joan definitely could dish it but couldn't take it. That's one thing about her I didn't like.

For example, R46?

R45 One, just one example of Joan displaying class and manners

Okay, R48.

Joan sent a sympathy letter to Johnny Carson upon the death of his son in 1991. That was four years after Carson said/sent NOTHING to her after husband Edgar killed himself. Joan showed class, Johnny showed he was a prick.

R49 Proof thanks

Is that you, David Letterman at R50?

If so, you can stop kissing Johnny’s ass. He’s dead. He can’t help you get “The Tonight Show” anymore.

R45 that's Joan's take and she always tried to make herself a victim so who knows what the truth was. Someone with class wouldn't have brought it up. Another example of her class. Giving Victoria Principal's phone number out on the air. And how about calling Michelle Obama a transgender and Obama gay? Real class.

As for her dishing it out, but not being able to take it, she did an hilarious, tear filled press conference after Stein's article, even bringing Melissa up to the podium saying how terrible it was to do something like this to someone young and vulnerable.

R50, that comes from Joan. She said there are just some things YOU DO, regardless of personal feuds. She revealed lots of stuff on her local and partially syndicated radio program in NYC (WOR) was back in 1997-99. But you probably weren't born yet, right?

Took you a long time to compose that, didn't it sweetie?

Sweetie = R52

R52, wow, talk about a comeback with nothing behind it. Fascinating how she was able to turn even her husband's suicide into a Carson snub. Think about that for a second Melissa akaR54.

R50 I am 53. Well, if Joan said it must be true

Carson was a mean petty drunkard. There's a reason not one of the people he worked the closest with all those years were friends with him outside of work.

This is an interesting interview Joan did with Henry Bushkin aka Bombastic Bushkin, Carson's attorney and probably his closest confidant, on the dark side of Carson.

No, you're not, dickhead R57

FAKE NEW FAKE NEWS R58!

R59 Oh honey, I remember well when Edgar topped himself, and who the fuck wouldn't have, to escape that car wash cunt

A month after Carson's son died in a car wreck he paid tribute to him at the end of a show. Fred de Cordova, the long time producer of the show who always stood just out of camera view during the show motioned to Johnny that the show was going long. Carson was infuriated and from that day forward forbade de Cordova from standing at his podium off camera again.

And after DeCordova died, he sent his widow a check for over 100,000 dollars as she was having money problems.

My impression is that Joan really didn’t do anything that all of the late night comedians did to get their talk shows. Letterman got fucked, that red haired unfunny guy got fucked. It seems to be how the business goes. And if they became successful, and others make monetary from their work, then all is forgotten.

I used to love when she was the guest host. I liked her more than Carson.

In retrospect, NBC was correct in not giving Rivers the gig because her Fox show was such a total disaster. But remember that Fox also put Arsenio Hall on as a replacement after she was fired and became a huge hit. It was not the network but rather Rivers. The audiences liked her in short doses but nightly and she became unbearable.

Yet Rivers had her own successful Emmy winning daytime talk show for five years. And that only ended because she wanted to do a half hour shopping show to piggyback on her growing QVC success.

Fun fact: MAD TV's Debra Wilson worked with Rivers on that short lived shopping show..

You can't compare Rivers and Arsenio. When Tivers' show started, Fox was still assembling the network and didn't even have affiliates yet. In Boston, for example, her show had to be broadcast as a radio show on an FM station for three or four months because the affiliate station wasn't under contract at the launch. Arsenio show aired with the network in place; Rivers' show didn't even air in parts of the country because the network launched so sporadically.

I loved Joan Rivers even more. I was 13 when I first learned who Joan Rivers was when she hosted Saturday Night Live in 1983. I was completely enchanted and enthralled by her in that episode. There was a bit where she did a "joke-off" with Joe Piscopo imitating her in drag. She did a couple of other monologues that night, and I fell in love with her.

So, like another poster above, I set my VCR to tape her each night she guest hosted The Tonight Show. Her Tonight Shows from 1983 to 1985 were absolutely classic. I bought her album "What Becomes a semi-Legend Most." And like the poster above, I can't believe my parents were surprised later on when I told them I was gay!

I was so excited when she got her own show on Fox. I remember there being a very long wait- she was off The Tonight Show, and she didn't do anything for several months. I remember well staying up at age 16 to watch her debut live. And... it was okay.

The strangest thing happened, and I still can't really explain it. It seemed like the Joan I loved from 1983 to 1985 was gone. She was just different on her Fox show. Maybe if I saw it now I could better explain what happened, but at age 16 I had no idea. Her Fox show left me cold. I would check in once in a while to see if she'd revered back, but nope. The old Joan was gone. It wasn't me taking sides with Carson either. I didn't really care about that whole thing.

I remember one time she even made me cringe. She had The Bangles on, and she asked what their influences were. They listed some "Buffalo Springfield" among them- and Joan, NOT making a joke, goes ""yeah yeah, Rick Springfield..." OY VEY!

By 1987 I was in the thrall of David Letterman. I don't think Joan ever recovered the magic she had on SNL, or those years on The Tonight Show. But I did come around on her after I saw her documentary, and when she did Letterman and a spot on Louie with Louis CK. Before she died I realized ho w much ground she broke. I really admire her. Her interviews with Lucy from NBC and from her Fox show are pretty fascinating to watch now.

AFTER I typed this, I found her on SNL with Piscopo. Please watch this. Her magic is on full display here. Just wonderful. (You have to disable ad blocker to see it)

Rest in Peace, dear Joan.

Do you think Muriel has Donna's femininity, r41?

R67 Daytime TV? Oh DEAR!

I think Ryan Murphy might just have his next storyline for Feud after reading all this. So who to play them? I’ll get shit for saying it, but I think Sam Rockwell would make a good Carson. Which automatically brings up Michelle Williams as Rivers, but is it to soon after Fosse/Vernon?

Kristin Whig has done some drama, and if she wouldn’t go to far into parody could pull it off. But would there be outcry if the role wasn’t played by a Jewish actress? So maybe Natalie Portman, Winona Ryder or perhaps Renee Zellweger and her new found love of plastic surgery could go all method on the role?

They are not going to cast a gentile as Joan, nor should they.

Thanks to the poster for the interview with Joan and Carson's lawyer. She was a great interviewer.

I really miss Joan.

Natalie Portman!

Because of my line of work, I'm lucky enough to have access to every single existing episode of The Tonight Show from about 1972 to 1992. Including all guest hosted episodes.

Some great stuff in there that will never be seen. It's too bad it can't be made available to the public on an a la carte basis. You wanna see Orson Welles guest host? $5.

Why can't those shows be made available to the public r76?

Is the Ben Stein profile available online?

It wasn't Esquire, it was GQ and Stein used the pseudonym Bert Hacker.

R76 I think the big stumbling block is music rights issues. The band plays a song in and out of commercial breaks, when a guest comes out, and of course you have singers and bands as guests. I believe what they do for Antenna TV is to edit out the songs Doc's band plays.

It's too bad old shows like this can't work out a deal with ASCAP where the song writers get a nominal fee each time the show airs, rather than having to pay out the nose for music rights. That issue keeps us from seeing tons of old favorites.

I would think that if comes down to it, most song writers would rather get a small fee and have their word heard than get no fee and have their music never heard.

*have their WORK heard that should read.

Would there be legal issues if they just deleted the music segments? That might be one way to work around it. I know many people would LOVE to have a library of Tonight Show episodes to watch on some kind of streaming service like Netflix. Yes I know there are a lot of clips on Youtube, but that's not even half of the complete library, I'm sure.

R82 I think cutting up all those episodes is labor intensive.

Yeah, I believe this archive I'm lucky enough to have access to has well over 5000 hours of content. It's so huge, I don't know where to start. I've been watching Joan Rivers hosted episodes from 1983. Man, she was in FIRE in that era.

So Ben Stein made up the article that she was happy at Edgar's funeral? Why? Did Joan win the lawsuit?

Ben Stein has pretty much made up most everything he's ever said. He seems to have gone radio silent since Trump went so far off the rails. Right wing piece of garbage.

[quote]Joan had MANNERS

That's just delusional.

She famously insulted both Obamas with repeated quips about him being gay and her being a secret tranny. She said all Palestinian children should be murdered at birth. At the Oscars one year she made a crack about there being "so many Asians this time."

That's a liberal with manners to you?

Dummy R86, ON STAGE Joan insulted everyone, duh. Are you capable of understanding the difference between on and off stage?

There were aspects of Joan Rivers that bothered me toward the end of her life. Things I didn't understand like her distaste for the Obamas, and that she became unable to take a joke at her own expense. The Joan Rivers of 2013 and the Joan Rivers of 1983 seem like two different people in many ways. She became hardened. When all the smoke cleared from the Fox debacle, after losing Johnny Carson and Edgar, she was never the same.

Carson was made because Joan licked Joyce DeWitt's labia and Carson didn't get to.

R89 the opposite of funny.

Rivers sucked up to the Reagans, both onstage and off and refused to book Patti for fear that she'd say something bad about her.

The articles about her since her death have been very interesting. Even her own manager and personal assistant said not to believe anything she said, which included her "revelation" that she and Carson had a one night stand early in her career and also that she had an affair with Robert Mitchum. Bushkin laid the Late Show fiasco squarely at Edgar's tiny feet. He kept saying he'd call Bushkin to arrange a meeting with Joan and Johnny to let him know what was being proposed and never did. Edgar, interestingly, was the go-between when Carson was going to jump to ABC and he arranged the meeting. I think the most correct thing that's been said about this was, yes, Rivers was wrong in the way she approached it, but yes, Carson should have also forgiven her, especially since she was so publicly humiliated by it.

Robert Mitchum was a womanizer who affairs with everyone, R91.

I found her through her morning talk show years. She was clearly a lot more humble and less abrasive given what she had been through, but it worked . She didn't need the bitchiness. She was a first rate interviewer who could be very personable . And there were some really great dishy interviews, especially about celebrities and old hollywood. (Joan could gossip with the best of them) It would be an event when she did her QVC weekends with Kathy Levine (I know MARY!) but Joan was entertaining with the guest callers, and she seemed to care about what each one was saying. Plus Levine and her had a great rapport.

R88 The whole red carpet thing soured me on her.. In the beginning it was entertaining and different, but at some point it stopped being funny and became mean spirited. There was one year Ving Rhames gave his award to Jack Lemmon and it was a genuinely touching moment. Joan, however, spent the entire wrap up show ripping into Lemmon, making fun of his age, wardrobe, everything. It was baffling until A Piece of Work came out and she stated that Lemmon walked out of her early show of hers because he thought she was vulgar. She started holding too many grudges. Gillian Anderson was another one whom she was just cruel to for no reason., and that went on for a year or two. It got to where people just didn't want to go and get interviewed because she offended them or insulted them. Kathy Bates even snubbed her in front of the cameras once.

R92, I think even Robert Mitchum had some standards.

One of my favorite Joan red carpet interviews: she congratulated Queen Latifah on her recent weight loss, and told her she can now "find a man."

Not if your that drunk, R94.

R95, drunk does not equal blind.

Speak for yourself.

Why did she have to tell him? If she was on his list of replacements why the hell is she obliged in any way to tell him her plans? Johnny Carson was good at his late night schtick, but he was a bitter man, probably alcoholic too which did not help. Not very likable outside his show.

She didn't have to tell him but the fact that she didn't and he was upset haunted her the rest of her life. Bushkin said that if she came to him and explained what was going on, he would have given her his blessing and that would have been that.

[quote] Why did she have to tell him? If she was on his list of replacements why the hell is she obliged in any way to tell him her plans?

Because he made her a star (gratitude and courtesy) and because you don't want to burn bridges.

I wish the pre 1972 Tonight Shows from NYC were available. My father was there on a business trip and got tickets to be in the audience. He called my mother that afternoon and told us to watch it to see if we could see him when they panned the audience. To our utter amazement, he was on "Stump the Band" !! Our phone rang off the hook for hours. I still have the autographed copy of "Happiness Is a Dry Martini" he got as a prize, along with dinner gift certificates someplace.

^^^ So he never got to use the gift certificates for a restaurant because he was only there for business and never went back, and you saved them? That adds an element of melancholy to your story.

She didn't say the stuff about Michelle and Barack Obama on stage, she said it to a random guy at a wedding.

Your whole point is that she was nice in real life but that happened in real life, not as shtick.

Later she stormed out of an interview when asked about it. She was upset because it was "hostile."

Girls, girls - they were both despicable, self-centered assholes.

I loved Joan's daytime talk show. I thought it was really good. A great mix of comedy, gossip and interviews. It had some iconic moments like when Sean Young visited dressed up as Catwoman after Tim Burton wouldn't audition her for Batman Returns. And her interview with Liza was great, too.

Her books are really good too. Still Talking about dealing with the aftermath of Edgar's suicide was really moving.

Joan had a stand-up special (forget which channel) just a year or two before she died and she was on fire. I think she got even funnier as she got older, which is very rare for a comedian.

I loved her up until Edgar died. Then she became weird. Remember "The Joan and Melissa Rivers Story," where they played themselves reacting to Edgar's suicide? That was insane. And then she became really nasty and unfun to watch in her old age.

I disagree r107. Joan's stand up in the last 10 or so years of her life was hilarious. Also, her talk show appearances on Graham Norton and Parkinson were also a riot.

She did become more embittered as she got older but she never stopped being funny.

One of theast books she wrote, something like "I Hate Everyone" is only funny when you read it in her voice so I bought it on audio book and it causes me to laugh so hard I have to turn it off for fear of getting into an accident when listening in the car. It's like a nine hour stand up set.

Joan was consistent. Her movie Rabbit Test was one of the worst of all time, her Broadway show "Fun City" was one of the worst of all time and her TV movie "Tears and Laughter" was one of the worst. The time she made me laugh after Edgar's death was after Dennis Miller said she had morphed into Madame of Wayland and... and when I saw her after that, I kept expecting Wayland to stick his hand up her ass. Miller said that those nasty vibes she sent out were coming back to her and you couldn't disagree.

I'd like to see a double feature of Tears and Laughter, and one of The Patty Duke Story, where she played herself. I remember seeing a clip where Patty dove into a Christmas tree during one of her manic episodes. Crazy shit.

R112, you must complete the trifecta by watching Keeping Secrets the made-for-tv movie about Suzanne Somers' damaged upbringing with the then '40 something' Suzanne portraying her teenage self.

Throw in my infertility drama, and I may wear a ribbon in your honor.

What the fuck am I, chopped liver?

I was the only one who won awards for my movie.

Excuse me you fucking cunts. I'm dead and I was still able to play myself before I died!