Gay Voice: Is it natural or an affectation?

It's an affectation. It's men putting on "woman voice". Not sure why they are so bad at it. Lesbians sometimes have a deeper timbre to their voice, which also might be a put on, but it doesn't reach the levels the really femme-y gay guys reach with their weird little girl voices and teenage girlspeak.

When you hear heterosexual bodybuilders speak with a hypermasculine intonation, what do you think? Was he born to speak like that or did he pick it up from the outside?

Do you really think speech pattern in an inborn trait and not rather something we humans pick up from the outside which can constantly vary through time?

OP, you need to give us a video example so we know what you're talking about.

R2 I'm not sure what point your making with that particular video (but I'm sympathetic to the servicemen who have to deal witk the pussy PC Brigade)

It's not really the speech pattern, R2. It's the tone. They pitch their voices higher on purpose. It's not their natural tone. They can easily move to their natural tone when they want to.

I actually like the sound of gayvouce. It makes me feel like I am with "my people," and often (not always) seems to me to signal someone who is comfortable with their gayness.

I conclude gayness means effeminacy; not same-sex attraction (homosexuality) strictly.

Gayvoice is both natural and an affectation and I'm pretty surprised that we are debating this.

We've all known the "sissy boy" who everyone knew was gay from birth, the one who sounded "gay" back in kindergarten.

And we all know the guy who sounded just like everyone else, came out, and starting swishing and camping and doing his best RuPaul until it became how he spoke.

In neither instance is it attractive, although with the former example it's somehow forgivable as he had no choice.

Video, please!

r7 is correct. Some are born with it, some put it on. Why you'd want to pretend to be effeminate is beyond me. I feel sorry for those born with it. If I was afflicted with it naturally I'd go to a voice coach and get elocution classes etc. and get rid of it.

Agreed R9, and it's got to be very tough for those who are born with it and also, well, there's no other way to put it, look the part.

It's like being black or Asian--they're never not gay, it's always a subtext in every interaction they have, no matter how minor.

Is this you R5?

An affectation for sure

It has always been my belief that homosexuality is caused by hormones, now science tells us most probably hormones whilst the baby is in utero. This makes sense to me. What makes men masculine and women feminie? Hormones. I'd imagine that's what gives some gay men a feminine sounding voice. Why some gay men are masculine and don't have gay voice I'm not sure. Perhaps those with 'gay voice' who are inherently feminine were exposed to more estrogen in the womb than those gay men who are masculine. It's also my theory that gay bottoms have been exposed to more estrogen thus making them passive and that trans women have been exposed to a lot ofvestrogen. Just a theory. Many will probably disagree.

How can it be an affectation? Who on earth would choose to sound like this?

I don't know how to send a link. There's a video on youtube. It's titled-Update On Life. The gay boy in that video is the polar opposite of someone who looks and sounds gay. Someone should post that video here.

You think Ross Mathews was [italic]born[/italic] with that voice? It's a perfected affectation.

Well,lets put it this way. A few years ago I was at a restaurant chatting with my table mate and a woman comes up and says to me "Is your name So and So " ? I said "Yes it is,do I know you?" She responded "we were in 3rd grade together,I recognized your voice!" That was 45 years ago,and since I know I have "gay" voice you figure it out !

Check out how this guy switches from his straight voice to his gay one! (He switches to his gay one at 0:11 seconds.) His gay voice sounds affected and perfected, as with Ross Mathews' at r16.

Gays with gay voice WANT to sound that way.

People tell me that as soon as I open my mouth a purse falls out. I've never made any attempt to adopt a "voice". So it's not an affection in my case. I never use camp or exaggerate. It's just what it is.

R13 That theory of yours was the basis for subjecting gay men to mandatory hormone injections in the 1950s. It was scientifically invalid, and the science since demonstrates there's no link between hormones and sexual orientation. Please don't get lured into this kind of claptrap any further. It's National Enquirer level idiocracy.

Men with effeminate voices are not beaten everytime they open their mouths. They speak like that because they are informing others of their attraction to men and, given that most are actually bottoms, by speaking like that they are telling men they take the passive role. They learnt and copy women how to codify their romantic and sexual interest in men.

[quote] How can it be an affectation? Who on earth would choose to sound like this?

Do you live in a fucking cave R14? Or are you one of our female posters?

Because if you're a gay guy, or even a straight man or woman who has ever had friends, I am finding it really hard to believe that you have never known anyone who spoke like every other guy .. until they came out, and then very quickly started speaking like Jack from Will and Grace or the two gay guys from Modern Family.

[R13] That theory of yours was the basis for subjecting gay men to mandatory hormone injections in the 1950s. It was scientifically invalid, and the science since demonstrates there's no link between hormones and sexual orientation. Please don't get lured into this kind of claptrap any further. It's National Enquirer level idiocracy.

The 50's theory was that gay men had low testosterone or high estrogen levels, this can clearly be proven wrong with a blood test. The modern model is that gay people are exposed to high disproportionate levels of estrogen or testosterone in the womb thus feminising or masculinising their brains. You see the difference in theories? It's called the Epigenetic theory of homosexuality, so nothing to do with National Enquirer level idiocracy.

r22 no, my friends aren't the type you hang rround

R23 You write polysyllabically

Speaking of Gay Voice ... "Queer As Folk" was on TV about 20 years ago. Whatever you think of the US version, it accurately showed the range of effeminacy in the gay community, e.g., there was one over the top gay voice guy who wore make-up, one with slightly gay voice and the rest more or less sounded like everyone else. (Granted they were mostly played by straight actors, but still.)

So why is it in 2019 if you were to ask someone to name gay characters on TV, they would spit back nothing but over the top femmes-- Jack from W&G, the two gay guys from Modern Family, the Queer Eye guys, the RuPaul crew....

Da fuck R24. These people don't have to be your friends. Do you live on a farm in Flyoverstan and only know a couple dozen people?

I mean for real, there was never someone in one of your classes in college (did you go to college?) who one day raised their hand is class and you thought "where did that voice come from?"

Do you live in an Islamic country where homosexuals are stoned in the town square and thus don't know anyone who had been bold enough to come out?

Have you never seen any actors or other well known people (Ricky Martin is an easy one) whose voice became much more obviously gay when they came out? Is his music perhaps banned in your country?

I am really at a loss to understand.

There is no evidence of a male brain and a female brain. That's an unscientific assertion. R23

R23 also claims not to know anyone who has ever consciously affected gay voice, so I would take their opinions with a entire shaker of salt R29

Male brains are bigger than female brains

That's because males are on average bigger than females, R30 - human males have bigger hands, bigger feet / shoe size, bigger lung capacity, bigger jawbones, etc. Newborn infant male babies even generally weigh more than female newborns. Once you factor in overall size, any inherent differentiation becomes less clear. Would be interesting to measure Danny DeVito's brain volume for comparison. He's 4'10'.

[quote] It's also my theory that gay bottoms have been exposed to more estrogen thus making them passive and that trans women have been exposed to a lot ofvestrogen.

R13, that would be conflating sexual orientation (hetero vs homo vs bi) with body dysmorphia or ‘gender’ dysphoria. But orientation and dysphoria have little to do with each other.

Gay bottoms are obviously gay. But the T can be gay OR hetero. E.g. a T male human who wants to look like a straight female - but is still sexually excited by sex only with females (i.e. he’s a HETERO male). Why would a T male like that necessarily be “exposed to more estrogen” than ANY gay male, top, bottom or vers? He wants to fuck pussy, not suck cock - that’s plain-vanilla, gold-star hetero orientation.

The ‘hormone in-utero’ theory was originally developed specifically in terms of sexual ORIENTATION (which sex group makes you cum), not for anything else (because it doesn’t logically fit anything else). They did the experiment on lab mice - injected Testosterone into the uteruses / uteri of female mice carrying embryos. The female mice born out of that experiment started HUMPING other females (i.e. sexually aroused like hetero male mice). It seems they turned the female mice into homosexual (lesbian) mice.

However, I’m not sure if that experiment was reproduced successfully again. And obviously scientists aren’t sure if this would even work in humans - because we’re a different species from mice after all.

I suspect scientists put this research on hold because it’s potentially very dangerous for gays. If you establish that in-utero hormones determine orientation (which is likely) - and then develop a way to measure or even affect in-utero hormones - that would mean parents (especially very rich ones with money to spare) could CONTROL or at least forecast their embryos’ orientation. And given that most parents are hetero and want hetero kids like themselves - this could spell a decrease in the births of gay people (either via in-utero hormone manipulation or simply by abortion).

The Ts are the subject of a very different theory currently. If the above theory had applied to them, then unlike gays it might have actually BENEFITTED them to have such diagnostics and early in-utero hormone treatment to prevent any suicidal dysphoria. But scientists suspect that the medical cause of their issues is different. There’s been some indication that Ts potentially have a connection disruption (malfunction) between different parts of their brain (ones that regulate the body and one that regulates body perception). So they can’t perceive their body calmly or accept it calmly.

Detransitioners. Exposed to the hormones of the other sex until one day they no longer identify as the other sex.

"Gays with gay voice WANT to sound that way."

Why, so they can be mocked constantly? Most femme gay guys have been femme since they were little boys.

WHY do people get on this nonsense about gayvoice being an "affectation"? It's the same as "straight" guys pushing conversion therapy because it worked for them! These "you have an affectation!" crowd are "straight acting" gays who feel nelly guys just ain't trying hard enough to be straight...like them!!

MARY!!!

Most gay people have been gay as geese since childhood, and they look, sound, and act gay because they are GAY!!

You are reasoning from an over-victimization mentality and that clouds your ability to see what lies behind speech pattern R34

If it's not an affectation, why don't lesbians all walk around talking like James Earl Jones? These men do not sound like women. They sound like stereotypes of women.

Why do you speak with a regional accent and youn can't help it? Was your accent determined in the womb?

A kid I went to middle school with suddenly realized his family was of hispanic descent and started talking with a "latino" accent. He was as whitebread as they come up until then. So it's not just gay men who do it.

I also knew another dude in my early 20s who had an almost falsetto voice. Until he got really excited. Then suddenly he would say a couple of words in a "normal" deeper voice, catch himself, and bring it right back up to the falsetto. We all knew he faked it, but some people thought he was pretty so he got away with it.

In my experience, only about 1 out 10 cases of "gay voice" are natural. Most of the time, it's fake as fuck.

[Quote]In my experience, only about 1 out 10 cases of "gay voice" are natural. Most of the time, it's fake as fuck.

R39 I completely agree with you.

r25 So because you've been proven wrong you have to attack my grammar? How mature of you. In any case, there is only one word I can see that I've used that I might have been able to substitute with a less polysyllabic one. All the other polysyllabic words I've used were necessary in order to explain my point of view.

r28 get educated

Brain response to putative pheromones in homosexual men.

Brain response to putative pheromones in homosexual men.

Jesus Christ, if gay people hate each other this much, how much chance do you think the rest of us will have to accept you?

Epigenetics may underlie homosexuality, study finds

I know of straight men who have so called 'gay voice'. A choice my arse. Although I do believe some guys put it on, god knows why? But a lot don't and can't help it.

Well, that settles it.

You're misinterpreting studies. There is no evidence of a male brain and a female brain. Men and women pretty much have the same brain. The differences they have found are in relation to sexual orientation and have nothing to do with gender identity. You are misunderstanding studies. R42

Men's brains are, on average, bigger due to their relative size compared to women. Women's brains, however, are more connected than men's brains. The two sides talk to each other more easily. It's why we are better at multitasking and don't do that thing where you stare at the tv and someone has to say your name five times before you hear them. Women's brains also have more sulci (the folds and wrinkles) while men's brains are physically smoother. This means that the surface areas are at least equal even if the men's brain is bulkier.

R38, yes, but we learn to speak by hearing others. For example, we develop the regional accent of our parents and our peers, modified by the influence of the national media. Where would a boy growing up in a completely heterosexual world, without exposure to any openly gay men in the media or real life – which is how most of us grew up until very recently – learn a gay voice?

What you call gay voice is simply imitation of women's speech pattern. Women are everyhere. You know that, right? "Gay voice" sounds peculiar because men have anatomy to produce sounds compared to women's. R51

I meant men have different speech organs due to different anatomy compared to women so that's why many times you may find that men with "gay voice" sound funny. They sound more natural when they feminise their voice like transwomen do to sound like a real woman. R51

It's the same when effeminate gay men walk and sit like women. Men have different bone structure so they usually don't move with a cadence like women do, but with some observation men can learn/acquire that cadence.

[quote] Why do you speak with a regional accent and youn can't help it? Was your accent determined in the womb?

Regional accents are taught, just like language itself, R38. Real historic case: 2 Indian girls were found in the wilderness, scavenging with animals - turned out they would never ever be able to speak any human language. B/c they missed the crucial young social developmental years when humans can be taught ‘language pattern’ communication skills.

It’s fascinating - because it suggests that human-type language (not a specific language, but language in general) is not an inherent, inborn skill. We are all basically hopeless dumb-dumbs, if our parents don’t socialise us and teach us verbal skill. One would have thought those children would at least develop their own simple ‘babble’ language to communicate, giving objects around them their own invented ‘pig Latin’ cute names, using their imagination - but they only yelped, etc. They produced ‘sounds’, but not in a language-style ‘repeat word’ pattern.

As for “gay voice” - I guess the question is the very high pitch. Very high pitch is usually learned - e.g. East Coast residents are generally taught a nasal manner of speaking that gives them higher pitch. Question is where do gays learn it from. Well, they probably learn it from females or from other gays mimicking females.

I find female pitch (which is usually high) a bit grating often, which is why I’m not a big fan of males mimicking them & speaking in high pitch either. There are some cases of males born with incredibly high pitch voices - but those are usually quite rare & might suggest some kind of medical issue.

I do wonder where some gays originally learned the lisp from (‘yasss’). It can’t be from females, they don’t generally have it. It must have been a fluke, with some celebrity of yore having it - and it catching on like wildfire, because people probably thought it sounded fun.

R52 and R53 - Hmmm. OK, I'll think about that. I've always thought that gay voice and mannerisms were unintentional parodies of women, but your explanation could explain that. Boys imitate their mothers and other women instead of their fathers and other men, but it doesn't come out as genuinely feminine because they don't have the right anatomy, so to speak.

I do think, whatever their origins, the gay voice or gay accent and mannerisms are reinforced when gay men get together, which is the same thing that happens when people with the same regional accent get together. It gets exaggerated.

In most cases, it is code switching. If the documentary clip linked upthread at r11 is the one I am thinking of, they go into it. The full documentary is currently streaming on Hulu.

This discusses it a bit as well:

I have no idea what you're talking about

I believe gay voice is a tribal signal. It's a vocal tattoo to show that you are from a community. I think it's affectation in the vast majority of cases though. The gay men I know who hang around straight men a lot rarely have gay voice. Send a newly out gay man to WeHo and his voice will change to sound more feminine.

So, how is it that so many gay men NEVER developed a gay voice? We all know gay guys who don't sound gay at all, including some who otherwise behave as the gayest gays who've ever gayed. I still stand by my statement that many gay men CHOOSE to speak with a gay voice.

You can't "move with a cadence" because cadence is related to speech.

It's totally an affectation.

I remember one guy who talked perfectly normally in a one on one situation, but if we went to a big gay pool party, his voice went up an octave and purses started flying out. And he stayed that way until the party was over and he was back in one-on-one situations with people.

It's totally learned behavior.

I don’t know the answer to OP’s question, but I will say this: there were far fewer people with gay voice in the ‘50s and ‘60s when it was effectively totally unacceptable to be out.

Make of that what you will.

R62, I even hear some straight guys who speak in a "gayish" voice. They throw my gaydar completely off-kilter when they do that. Many young American men have grown up without having to substantiate their manhood, unlike in previous generations.

When I was growing up in the 70s and early 80s, many of us were constantly told to "put some bass to your voice!" But times have changed.

Paris Hilton is infamous for going back and forth from gay man voice to butch lesbian.

It's NOT an affectation!

65 posts and it never dawns on any of you that guys who naturally speak in gay voice have learned to mask it as a way to make themselves less obvious.

Not the other way around.

(Though there are plenty of guys who adopt gay voice as a way to conform to what they feel is their new identity.)

Purses have flown out of this queens mouth since I was old enough to talk,and I grew up in a very masculine,country environment. Being southern and having a slight accent helped cover it sometimes,but its just how I sounded. Many times when I spoke on the phone people would assume I was female. Ive never given it a moments thought,and Im not sure why so many of you do. What do you care if someone sounds femme ? That being said,most of you only wish you could have had 1 /10 of the dick I had.Lisping got me laid PLENTY. Hate on, Gurls.

What do you mean OP?

[quote]Hate on, Gurls.

We’re hating on, but it’s more to do with your sentence structure and punctuation than anything else.

I'll live R69. Im sure theres a support group for people like me,no ?

I love ya, r70!

What about straight men with gay voice?

The only straight man I knew with gay voice spent a lot of time around flamboyant gay men (he was an artist, and went to art school).

Again... learned.

I don't believe most men (even the gay ones) with a natural amount of testosterone can maintain a high pitched voice after puberty without it being affectation. Even trannys struggle to maintain a feminine voice while taking copious amounts of estrogen.

I have all the vocal charm of any woman born with a vagina thankyou!

R56- Do I Sound Gay? is available for FREE on youtube.

Why do you think some camp gays wear women's jeans so that their asses look like those of women? It's not because they want to be women; it's because they are informing men they are sexually available. It's the same with the so-called gay voice. You learn unconsciously.

Sucking lots of dick alters the tongue and throat causing gay voice.

R77. Where did you come by that idea? Never, ever in my life have I seen a gay man wearing women’s jeans. Then you came up with a role reason behind something you claim exists, but offered no evidence.

This sounds like frau bullshit.

Really? You need to go out more. Recently a flaming gay man in Spain was threatened by a homophobe for wearing women's shorts R79

I've never heard of gay men wearing women's jeans either, but then again, I don't hang around freaks

I wore womens jeans in the 80s because they were a better fit and I was all about being a bossy bottom. My favorite pair were pink cords,they fit me like a glove and gave me a wonderful shape. Those pink cords got me lots and lots of dick. Never say never,ladies.

R82. So, you were a big sissy bottom 40 years ago. That’s nice. What do you wear in the retirement home, granny?

You thought the pink cords gave you a wonderful shape. You looked like a fruit masquerading as a musk stick.

Little story for the bitches at R83,84. Picture it,a small truck stop/diner off highway 301 in Florida,circa 1982. Two friends are driving back to Jax after a weekend of hard partying in Orlando. Its about 2 am and they are both drunk as hoot owls. They decide to grab a quick bite and spot a 24 hour place and pull in. One is wearing a white satin collarless peasant shirt and PINK cord jeans .As they enter the diner they are immediately the center of attention.As they walk to a booth,someone shouted out "aint no better joy than a fat butt boy!" and the rest of the patrons all break out into wolf whistles and laughter. The pink cord queen immediately starts to flirt his ass off with the tables full of truckers on either side of him,and there was lots of joking and good natured ribbing going back and forth. The middle aged waitress was soon seething with resentment as the queen was the very center of attention,taking away the spotlight from her rather large wrinkled cleavage .

An hour later said pink cord queen is in the back of a sleeper semi with a very hot and very horny 30ish year old trucker with long black hair and a solid build. They have an amazing time where the trucker tries to screw him through the floor. AND as pink cords is leaving yet another trucker tries to talk him into hopping in HIS truck (but he wasnt attractive so...) . In summation,you bitches are barking up the wrong tree with this aging queen who wore wild clothes and had more sex than you can even conceive of due to being so femme and flamboyant.Im willing to bet neither of you have ever once been the center of attention anywhere.

DLers say the darndest things.

R86 wins DL tonight.

Well done friend.

R85. Sure, Mary Elizabeth. In 1983 your ass would have gotten beat and they would have found your pink cord clad corpse in a ditch.

R88 Ok honey,tell yourself that. SOME of us were getting laid in our heyday.YOU might have ended up in a ditch,but I was ass up in a sleeper cab with my pink cords around my knees getting dicked by a cute trucker. Not my first one by a long shot either. While you were home scribbling in your diary about how the hot straight quarterback didnt know you were alive,my screaming queen ass was getting ALL the dick, sweetie. Believe me.

R89. It’s amazing how most of us managed to get dick without being trannies or lot lizards. But, here you are 40 years later bragging about being drag’s answer to Hello Kitty.

Women are influencial.

R90 Im so sure dear,all 3 of them. Sorry that some of us didnt spend our lives ashamed of ourselves and hiding in a closet. Some of us said it loud and proud long before it was trendy.I actually thought of this thread as I was picking out an outfit for a wedding this weekend. A red silk shirt,black silk pants and a huge rhinestone brooch in the shape of a peacock.I will look fabulous and get scads of compliments,as I always do when I "dress up" .Not drag per se,but darn close! Mwah !

Homosexuality and effeminacy are two different things.

Gay voice = gender roles.

I think it's more about who a child connects with growing up.

Just my opinion, but I think if a child has a preference playing with girls and is strongly connected to his / her mother and aunts and sisters, the child models some of its behaviors, voice, and facial movements from women. It seems that way to me, especially when guys emulate and quote film actresses.