Why are gay bars dying out?

Were you born yesterday!? It's because of BTQ+ and straight women infesting every gay bar.

The article doesn't mention that though, r2.. I wonder why?

R2: Of course they won't mention that! They don't care about telling the truth! They want to blame gay men for everything! Same shit, different day.

If I walked into a gay bar, I’d rather meet the BTK killer than the BTQ.

I know, r3, I know. It's unbelievable how everyone in the media is denying that Trans is hurting gay institutions (and pretending that Trans and gay belong in the same community) when Trans interests and Gay interests are so different as to directly clash on many occasions.

Bars are just not the thing anymore. Where I am, the gays all go to monthly club/dance events on a Friday night or a Sunday afternoon.

When I visited the busiest gay bars on Arenas Road in Palm Springs last month the patrons were about 30% female. No thanks!

I almost feel like saying 'DUH'

I mean bars have been dying off for years now for the reasons stated. In my city there was about 12 gay bars 15 years ago whereas now there is about 4, none of which interest me anyway.

I'm a GenXer, but I have heard several millenials say they just would rather go to THE hot club or a popular bar that caters to everyone, instead of boxing themselves in at a strictly gay bar. I guess they feel that you can get dick anywhere these days.

It also could be generational.

No R9. It's because they aren't gay, and want to go everywhere else to fuck women, trans, pansexuals, queers, bisexuals, and straight couples.

Last time I went to a gay bar was August 2006 in Toronto. Only stayed about 5 minutes then left disgusted. Seemed to be mostly straights. I have no compunction about NEVER going back to a gay bar.

Honest I don't like the concept of 'gay bars' primarily because it seems to encourage an alcohol culture. How did alcohol ever become so popular? It tastes gross and has more negatives than positives.

Online hookup and dating apps. Kind of like Amazon hurting big box stores. Online apps and sites give you a fighting chance to learn more about a person in your own privacy more quickly. The bar scene can be a tedious process if you are lucky enough to actually meet someone of interest to you.

R12: Every bar and club promotes drinking and drug culture. That's how they make their money.

Many reasons - dating apps, online hookups. Here in Toronto, condo residents hate the noise and rents are astronomical and unaffordable, so it's often not worth it.

Also dance music is SHIT these days.

This reminds me, there are probably lots of gays that don't want to touch alcohol and other drugs due to being concerned over their appearance and health, even though there's a significant part of gays that do engage in stuff like that.

It's societal. A lot of people don't want to hang out anymore. People just don't visit like they use to. It is not exclusive to gays.

Gay dance events still seem popular; circuit parties always sell out.

It is funny that a hookup app's website is decrying the 'death' of gay bars.

Meth. Apps. Hens’ nights.

The last few times I was in a gay bar in the US, it was just full of cliques standing and posing... and just talking to each other. What is the point of going out into that? A few are slightly friendlier in some European cities... depending on when & where. Grindr is easier to get what 90% want anyway. Most people do not know how to make conversation... and it's nearly impossible to do it with blaring music anyway. The last thing is that gays are much more spread out now. It's a pain to get to the bars vs. where people lived 20 years ago (depending on the city).

I can only speak for myself, but there's a 'been there, done that' feeling towards all of the gay bars in my city -- which is a huge city, btw. Only a few nights, here and there, at some of the bars are interesting. The rest of the time it feels like a very staid, tame PG-13 scene. If I'm looking to connect with new gay friends, I'm more interested in a hobby Meetup for various activities where one can actually have a conversation and find common ground (hiking, camping, cooking).

I'm much more likely and interested to go to a gay bar when I'm visiting a new city though.

As for seeking out sex, private clubs, private parties are where it's at (outside of the apps). Outside of one or two places, the bars feel strangely de-sexualized.

I googled gay bars in LA. Which of these are actually good/popular?

That article is what is ruining gay bars. They have become too political. And don’t give me any shit about how “Stonewall was political”.

People want to go to the gay bar to have fun. Not be lectured about intersectionalism.

The article says how a disabled man felt out of place because “no men in wheelchairs” were on the screens. Sure, that is what is killing gay bars, the lack of disability accommodations.

Article says people do not feel safe because if touching. No, that is what a gay bar is. Men touching men. If you don’t like it say no, don’t cry like a women about your body being violated.

Article says transmen feel excluded... how I wish that was true.

Bars are not the best places to find a LTR, unless you want to share your life with an alcoholic.

R23, the bars in West Hollywood are all very boring to me now. Fubar is occasionally fun for Big Fat Dick thursdays. The Mother Lode is where you can get a cheap, strong drink (shoutout to Doug).

The Eagle LA has to be one of the most boring, forgettable Eagles in the country. Faultline [italic]used[/italic] to be more fun and raunchy but has become very PG-13 and is currently undergoing somewhat of an identity crisis. I like Precinct's 2nd-story ambiance, but I'm rarely in downtown LA.

Oil Can Harry's actually is a lot of fun, but I do like disco and I missed out on that whole scene. The Bullet is LA area's only real raunchy gay dive bar, IMO -- I appreciate that they keep it real. JMO.

There is a point when an extrovert must realize that the packed crowd wasn't because everyone was all excited to meet everyone else, but because a large number of the crowd thought there wasn't another way to achieve their objectives without joining in the crowd, but would otherwise prefer doing things in a more private space.

I avoid so called "gay bars" now, which should be called "intersectional cancer bars", because if I seen a transman or a straight woman being sexual with so called "gay men" who let them; I would not be able to control my anger and end up on the news.

R28 is not a well woman. Poor girl.

People just don't go out in general the way they used to. It's not just gay bars. It's any bar. It's the theater and concerts. Movies. Karaoke bars . Even to some extent restaurants . Etc etc. It's one of the salient features of the digital age.

R29: Blocked.

Well, why did anyone go to gay bars? Certainly not to make friends. I tried that several times and was subjected to some of the worst treatment of my life.

People would come with their posse; talk to their posse; and leave with their posse- unless they hooked up and went home with someone.

“Also, a quick note: From here on out we’ll be using the term “gay bar” rather than “queer,” “lesbian” or “LGBTQ bar” for several reasons. For one, “queer bar” sounds hopelessly old-fashioned, and no one says “LGBTQ bar.” But also, lesbian bars are largely their own unique entity and have always been fewer in number and in quicker decline than gay bars. While most of the bars we mention in this article are open to people of any (or no) gender, we often use the term “gay bar” to reflect all such spaces, despite them welcoming LGBTQ people as a whole.”

R23, Akbar can be fun for dancing. It's a more mixed/indie scene though.

Avoid: Fiesta Cantina, Ab.bey if you're looking for a very gay male scene. Faultline has an underwear night but only about 1/3 to 1/2 of the guys actually strip down to their underwear. Rage is for twinks and twink chasers. I miss MJs in Silverlake.

I went to a gay bar this past Saturday in Phoenix ("Stacie's" I think it was called) . It was packed and the music and drinks were good. I didn't hook up with anyone but I had a lot of fun.

R35: Sure Jan. You hooked up with everything and caught the super gonorrhea strain.

42 year old gay guy here. I've just grown out of the gay bar scene. The music absolutely sucks these days. It's exponentially cheaper to just invite your friends over and drink & party. My friends and I have all gotten DUI's over the years - so it's just safer to stay home. It's the same thing with Grindr - I tried it a few times, but it's mainly guys I already know and have known for over 20 years. Not to mention gay bars are increasingly packed with slovenly heavy set 20 something straight white girls fawning over the gay men, and being all up in our business.

R37: And the "gay men" who let the straight female sluts be all over them sexually, is even worse. In Sydney at two different gay clubs I've seen this several times. It's absolutely pathetic.

R37 the under 30s have been super obese for decades now. These turds think being 5'10 230 lbs is average! Nope, you are 70 lbs overweight.

This is not very difficult to figure out.

Bars and alcohol culture in general are dying out. For everyone in the US, not just homosexuals.

Google it. So many articles about how people are over bars and late nights and being drunk and all that.

Focus is on exercise and getting up early and all that.

Great acceptance hasn't hurt and gay bars are mostly filled with older men who grew up in that culture,

But mostly it's because bars in general are on the downswing.

I do think it has to do with how disconnected we are from each other.

Plus, gay bars can get very clique-ish. Like high school.

They can be fun and how sad they are dying out because it is a perfect place to get together, not worry about some straight dude going nuts seeing you kiss the same gender.

We are all becoming so far apart. There is going to be so much loneliness when my generation and Gen Z get older.

R38 And when you don't want to touch them or let them touch you they cry about misogyny and then accuse you of trying to grope them.

I will tell you why bars and everything previous generations did are dying out, the young people these days are fucking nuts! On a forum this young turd from Slovakia PM'd me. He was 17 but looked about 40. He tells me he has like 30 personality disorders. Including depersonalization disorder? Whatever the fuck that is. He claimed it means you do not recognize other people as being real or some shit like that. Kids today are just fucking nuts and have zero social skills, furthermore they have no money or independence of any kind. No wonder bars and everything else we consider "civilization" is dying out.

There is a neighborhood bar/pub near me owned by a gay couple. It used to be a "gay" bar but they relabeled themselves as a neighborhood bar. Their bar; their decision. They stopped hiring strictly gay or lesbian bartenders because of EEOC restrictions (can't discriminate against the straights says the chicken little owner)...so when they continue to participate in gay pride parades many of the older gay and lesbian patrons threw a shit fit telling them that their staff is straight, most of the clientele is straight (the straight bros and hoes had taken over) and just because the owners are gay does not make it a gay bar and should NOT be featured in the pride parades. When the millennial staff demanded a union (!) the owner said no and they quit, vowing to take all the business with them. He hired mostly gay/lesbian bartenders as replacements and the clientele returned. It is still a neighborhood bar where we tolerate and accept the straights, but it is really our turf.

Equality.

Apps.

Prices of drinks.

All have contributed to the demise of gay bars and clubs.

Apps, online porn and internet culture eliminating social abilities - combined with a general move away from alcohol - is causing the death of the gay bar. Though I have noticed a slight increase in interest by young’uns who seem to be realizing how horrible the apps are for meeting people to have an actual relationship. Unfortunately, their social skills are so underdeveloped, it makes in-person cruising - which was always difficult and socially complex - a really stressful experience.

Damn, that's a long ass article on the subject. Good read, though. I'm one of those that used to love going out to gay bars/clubs multiple days of the week. Now, I much prefer staying close to home or entertaining at home. It's less expensive and keeps you off the road and out of trouble.

So this is only vaguely related- but straight pubs in England and Ireland have been disappearing rapidly too. The overlapping reasons cited are cost of alcohol, decline in drinking among the younger crowd (they've had to offer more food to keep up), competing entertainment factors (netflix and chill) and the risk of DUI.

It's kinda sad because that culture was much more friendly than gay bars here, IMO. Even gay bars in Ireland (like pre 2010, I'd say) were a lot more friendly than any gay bars here. The music wasn't as loud and the lights weren't as dark either, so you could actually talk. People just went there to meet their friends and talk to whoever was there - they didn't go to hook up or even really make plans to meet anyone, stand, and pose. They just came out and drank and talked to anyone. It's not that way now though. I don't know about British pubs as well (this article is UK focused) - but that was my experience in Ireland over the past 10+ years.

The article at R48 is what I was referring to at R40

Agree R48. The idea of a pub as a social venue was really important to me as a gay man. I understand it is perhaps not the healthiest option, but it did seem psychologically healthier than sitting at home on Grindr. People of different types would meet. Someone who didn’t have six pac abs could still be sexy in person. And the things I learned from people of all ages - and the random hookups with guys I wouldn’t have considered via app - were really valuable to my growth as a person.

Of course, the Irish pub or local neighborhood gay bar is different than the “scene” club that a lot of guys here seem to be referring to. I have no interest in the stand and model bars. But even as an elder gay, I like to occasionally go to a chatty neighborhood gay bar where I feel more comfortable than a straight bar and where I have more in common with the patrons.

Interesting how every picture at OP's article make gay bar attendance look unattractive.

[quote] Bars and alcohol culture in general are dying out. For everyone in the US, not just homosexuals.

I don't know if this is true? Late night bar culture may be taking a slide, but that may only be because I've noticed more people transitioning to bottomless brunches and daytime beer busts. At least I notice that with people in my age cohort of 30s, 40s -- a formerly hard-drinking age group. Also, entertaining at home. I prefer that these days really if I am just hanging out with friends.

Yes, R51. Lucido is a competent photographer, but like most nightlife photographers, he more often focuses on the freaks, whores and 'fabulous' types (drag, porn, rinse, repeat). I can't stand being near such queens, who hold court, demanding full attention on their every cliché one-liner or eyeroll.

It's a lot cheaper to buy a bottle and go to someone's house or apartment for the night.

Gay bars require you to acknowledge and (gasp!) interact with the people around you.

Too many young people nowadays are addicted to their phones and are simply incapable of acknowledging much less interacting with other humans anymore. This is very obvious in places like Japan which is very technology based and where 42% of men and 44% of women between the ages of 18 and 34 are virgins.

30 years old and never fucked? That's insane and so so sad.

Lesbian bars historically have been fewer in number and perform less successful than gay bars because lesbians are notoriously bad tippers and cheap. I am not being snarky. I’ve had friends over the years who owned, managed or bartender at them and they all say the same thing.

I prefer mixed spaces, or fluid spaces. Not into “gay” specific events or locales

R58 Why are you posting on a gay messageboard?

Put a darkroom back in them and they'd be back in a second.

Older gays are either partnered or have given up finding anyone.

Younger gays only do screens.

Then there are additional people who simply don't drink and so bars are not a fun environment whether they're young or old.

Eliminate the old, the young and the non-drinkers, who does that leave as potential customers?

During the 50th World Pride it occurred to me that bars are our touchstone as a community - for better or worse. I saw how important that bar was as our home and icon when major gay events happened - including Windsor and gay marriage. To lose them is losing our community. Yet we have to rely on the economics of the bar scene - and the financial backing of gay bar owners - to keep them alive. Not sure where we gather when they close.

Watched “Some of my best friends are...” on TCM during Pride month and was reminded how the gay bar was where the entirety of gay men’s existence happened. I realize things have changed, but somehow there needs to be a way to preserve a really important part of our history - and still a critical gathering place for us as gay people even if we are integrated into society now.

anyone remember "The Hut" in Bellingham WA? Spent many a night and day in there(was supposed to be studying for college).

In the UK at least not sure about America, young people are drinking less ,clubbing less and an increasing proportion are actually tee total and not drug users.

r51 Good question but also makes the future sound bleak.

Sorry^^^meant r61

R59, there are plenty Bisexuals, mostly straights, fluids, homoflexibles, and straights here

That’s a good development r64

r68 Except for bar and club owners!I think I read somewhere that in the UK the amount being spent in nightclubs sector overall was shrinking about 6% every year. That's a sector in trouble and decline and that is heading for a big crunch time problem.

[quote]I prefer mixed spaces, or fluid spaces.

Fluid spaces? Like a bubble that constantly changes shape?

Just say bisexual if that's what you're getting at. Mixed was fine.

R70 Young people today? 50 different genders or identities. 50 different personality disorders. They really are despicable/loathsome.

[quote]Put a darkroom back in them and they'd be back in a second.

Why? No one develops film anymore.

[quote] This is very obvious in places like Japan which is very technology based and where 42% of men and 44% of women between the ages of 18 and 34 are virgins.

This is surprising. I thought most of them did porn. It's amazing how much Japanese porn (gay and straight) is out there.

It's a crap argument.

Bars used to be fun, and there was a lot more going on than just horrible music played so loud you could feel your testicles vibrating. We went because the bars and clubs had variety. Some were loud dance bars. Some were quiet piano bars. Some were trashy little holes, but it was a lot of everything. Now, they're all McDonalds:

- the exact same shitty Drag Bingo

- the exact same shitty Drag Brunch

- the exact same horrible music that nobody dances to

- the exact same horrible music amplified everywhere so you can't have a conversation anyway

- the exact same straight women who take over every anyway, so the gay men leave

- bachelorette parties/hen parties and the whiny bars claim they can't stop them. bullshit.

I've seen more bars die from a lack of trying. They're the perennial fat boy who is certain that every hot guy will overlook his 100 lbs because he got a new haircut or a new shirt. It ain't happening. Fix the complete lack of socialization in your damn bars and ummm make them SOCIAL. Quit making them hag hotels. Charge a cover, a really big cover and create "gay men's nights" so you waive the cover for gay men. Some guy gets pissy he gets hit on? Oh. Yet another straight guy who slide in because he wanted to hit on the straight women who hang out on there. Yep, leave or pay the cover.

Start having game nights again. Host the Meet Ups. Quit being such damn losers about why people are on the apps. They're on the apps because the *bars damn well suck ass*. Everyone is tired of trying to talk to somebody in a bar only to yell WHAT WHAT at each other because there's no place to talk and have some skank hag constantly inserting herself into every conversation or try to dance with you or your guy.

Solve those problems, we'll come back. Quit using us like a Vegas slot machine and stop blaming us for your crappy management.

The weak gay bars are just being weeded out. There will always be a few around, the best ones will survive.

Drink prices are ridiculous in NYC, it's no surprise that people are going to bars less.

Hook up apps. Throw in a bit of the homogenization of straight and gay entertainment and leisure. It certainly isn’t because gay men don’t want to drink, lol.

[quote] Everyone is tired of trying to talk to somebody in a bar only to yell WHAT WHAT at each other because there's no place to talk

I really agree & do not understand why this is never ever addressed. Even weddings are becoming insanely loud. Who are all these people who want music blaring so loud the only option IS to text on your phone? I found it just as annoying 20 years ago and it's amazing it hasn't changed. In the dance club type places, fine - nobody is really there to talk. But even casual bars are impossible.

Online sex is not new either. It's been around for over 20 years with AOL M4M chatrooms and Gay . Com, etc. There's no real reason for gay bars to not have found a way to compte, evolve, or adapt.

*compete. Also, I remember the conversation about M4M AOL chatrooms killing gay bars in the late 90s.

*compete. Also, I remember the conversation about M4M AOL chatrooms killing gay bars in the late 90s.

In Liverpool they currently have the opposite issue.I think there are too many gay bars and clubs in the city with a new one Sugarboys opening last week.The market is oversaturated or overserved and some of the smaller venues like the Masquerade are noticeably suffering as a result. Somethings going to have to give because there simply isn't even custom to keep them all afloat. They are trying to emulate the success of the Manchester gay village but they have overexpanded and overextended themselves. A painful crash and burn or market correction is coming.

It looks like everyone is going to Chick-fil-A instead.

What part of "people of all stripes are going to bars less these days as alcohol in general and being drunk is falling out of fashion" is so hard to internalize?

The apps are just a reaction to that, not a cause of it.

[quote]What part of "people of all stripes are going to bars less these days as alcohol in general and being drunk is falling out of fashion" is so hard to internalize?

Generation X drank almost all the booze, there isn't much left over for Millennials to finish.

Millennials would rather pop pills than drink alcohol. They consider themselves “healthier”.

With our crazy gun culture, I try not to be in crowded spaces too often.

r86 Indeed an increasing number of them fall into the category of tee total,vegan,non drug using etc .Its great health wise for them but doesn't bode well for the future of pubs and clubs.

It's not just us R86 and R88--it's everyone. With older Millennnials, Boomers and Xers it's likely due to having families and all, but less drinking it an everyone trend, not a generational one.

You can see it in other areas too-- Coke and Pepsi are flailing as people drink water or iced tea or Red Bull/ Monster or "sports drinks."

That latter category--sports drinks--are dangerous and contribute to obesity as much as colas do--they are laden with sugar and calories, as they were meant for guys who had just spent two hours playing college football in 90º heat, not someone who's exercise for the day is walking from the parking lot to the store.

There are many zero calorie sports drinks including Vitamin Water and Propel Zero and Powerade Zero

Most gay bars are dives. Sometimes it's fun to go to a divey bar to drink and hangout, but a lot of people are gravitating more to themed or cooler bars. The whiskey bar, cocktail bars, the one with the indoor minigolf and arcades, etc. More and more people want to drink and hang out with their friends in a trendy/Instagram-worthy place. If gay bars want to survive, they need to start offering something better than just being a "gay" bar. No one is going to support you anymore just because you're there.

I like mixed bars and spaces

Gen X has pretty much aged out of going out bar-hopping all night long (personally, at age 41 that no longer appeals to me at all) and Millennials don't seem to drink as much, as has been noted.

Millennials don't drink? Come on, really? Who is drinking all of that damn craft beer and fueling those overpriced craft cocktails then? They live for the bar.

Are some of us kind of welcoming the demise of the gay bar and clubs?Did the scene get too complacent and rest on its laurels and take its customer base for granted?

I wonder what the scene will be like 5-10 years from now?Certainly in Liverpool and Blackpool I can see a drastic fall in the number of gay venues.

I understand the scene is changing. But gay bars are still valuable to me as a 50 year old. After a full week of work in heteroland, I love going to a gay bar on Friday night and depressurizing. Maybe it’s an age thing, but I feel much more relaxed in a gay bar than 90% of straight bars. I feel like I can truly chill and the topics of conversation, music and vibe are very different than the families, money and responsibility conversations I have with my straight coworkers all week.

I also like that my gay bar has a mix of ages. HappyHour is an older, more domestic crowd. Later is the singles and millennials. I really hope they stay around for another 10-20 years - then I don’t care as I’ll be out of here.

To be honest r96 I notice people in gay bars having those kind of responsibility conversations too,most of the time there isn't a great distinction between the kind of conversation nowadays in gay vars pubs or non gay bars.

The London gay scene has shrunk dramatically.

^^are Rupert Street bar and The Yard still there?

r99 Yes they are 👍

I don't understand why there aren't more gay-identified coffee shops (that are not Starbucks).

There used to be one where I am (Portland) although I can't say I ever went there. Don't know if it's still there. Still, it seems a better idea than a bar.

I agree, R101. I'm very introverted, so I rarely go to gay bars. I need something like a gay library where everyone mostly keeps to themselves, except while washing their hands in the men's room. I only feel comfortable making small talk with people who just burst out of a stall after taking a loud shit.

R102. That sounds like an adult bookstore, hon

My complaint is with the music. Even on 80's or 90's night - it's the same catalog of hits trotted out every time.

I went to a small diver bar last Sunday and they played 80's and 90's - but all the stuff they don't play (for some reason). It was so fucking refreshing.

That's easy to do - same thing with disco. Just go through the top 40 disco hits of a given month and start remixing them better. Somehow I have this idea that it would make something cliche become fresh and fun again.

Drinking is as popular as it ever was. People are simply doing it at home or house parties. Bars never have good specials anymore. I remember 99 cent beer nights in the 80's and early 90's. Bars are just too expensive and people afraid of DWI's. Losing your license is not worth it.

I’ve been to two different gay coffee places that were owned and run by lesbians.

Younger gays have crappy social skills, so going out to "socialize" is a holy terror to them. They will come up with a thousand reasons why the bar or its patrons are to blame, not their spectrumy social skills and horrible personality vacuums!

[quote]Why are gay bars dying out?

Because all the freaks and homophobes have invaded them .

Gay men are not going there to see Trans or Gender Freaks, so they have checked out.

WHEN AN ELDERGAY SAYS: "Young people today have no social skills"

WHAT AN ELDERGAY MEANS IS: "Every time I hit on one of them, they reject me."

No, statistics show people are drinking less.

nd millennials and Gen Zers around the world are drinking less than older generations did at their ages. A 2018 report from Berenberg Research found that respondents in their teens and early 20s were drinking over 20% less per capita than millennials - who drank less than baby boomers and Gen Xers - did at the same age.

Read more: Millennials are dragging down beer sales - but Gen Z marks a 'turning point' that will cause an even bigger problem for the industry

Again, a decline in drinking has been tied to several factors, such as the tendency of younger generations to be more concerned about their health and to favor marijuana over booze. But according to the market-research firm Mintel, another reason is that younger people are seeking control in the face of constant social-media surveillance.

"Control has become a key watchword for today's younger drinkers," Jonny Forsyth, a global food-and-drink analyst at Mintel, said in 2017.

R74 2020

[quote]Were you born yesterday!? It's because of BTQ+ and straight women infesting every gay bar.

[quote]R2: Of course they won't mention that! They don't care about telling the truth! They want to blame gay men for everything!

So let's see: you made up some stupid in your first post. Then you get mad at the media because they won't buy into your paranoid conspiracy theories. Got it.

The fluids party in mainstream lounges and bars

[quote]I went to a small diver bar last Sunday and they played 80's and 90's

Diver bar? Pearl, oyster, SCUBA, skin, sponge, or muff?

[quote] Millennials are dragging down beer sales

They're dragging down Big Beer sales, like Budweiser and Miller, in favor of craft beer. If millennials are not drinking, I must be imagining all of those packed bars every weekend.

Link.

Hornet is a gay dating app. Of course they want to blame ANYTHING besides dating apps for killing the bars.

There are plenty of candidates to point to for the demise of gay bars, but the article reads like Phillip Morris trying to blame lung cancer on everything but cigarettes.

They blame DL in everything but name, too: "Conversely, an increasing number of articles have accused gay men of flat-out misogyny, referring to women as “bitches” or worse, cruelly criticizing their appearance, non-consensually fondling their breasts" - that has to be the fake trans trying to cop a feel - "shaming effeminate men and not bothering to protest for lesbian, female or reproductive justice causes."

And shame on each and every one of you bitches who did not bother "to protest for lesbian, female or reproductive justice causes." That's why gays go to gay bars? Um, no.

Ah, yes, Hornet (aka Whore Net), such an honorable philanthropic institution.

R115, your individual anecdotes don’t vitiate statistics that cover entire macro groups and data

So what is this hard data that they are drinking less, R119?

See r110

The Sober Revolution

It was interesting to me that some of these kids don't want to get drunk & embarrass themselves on social media. It's kind of scary we're on a 24/7 camera society now, which I guess I already knew - but that really showed an effect I wouldn't have predicted.

The other thing i was thinking of (that isn't in any articles) is the larger % of younger generations on ADHD meds, anxiety meds, and antidepressants which can't be combined with a lot of alcohol... depending on which drug. Or some of them make you drunk much faster. When I was in college, maybe 5% of people were on Adderall now & that has probably tripled or more. I think you *can* drink with it but it's not recommended. It's not that straightforward from what I've read - but I know I got drunk as hell from 1 small drink when I was taking cymbalta.

I'll add that beyond any alcohol consumption and millenial malaise - we also have more zoning issues than we had before. It's ironic, but when cities where shitholes, it was less of a problem to open a gay bar and get an ABC license. As more cities (not all cities) have improved their urban core, it's much more difficult to get a license - and the city councils that oversee these are showing their true colors by pushing gay bars out of the old gayborhoods and into the true shithole neighborhoods.

DC doesn't permit new bars in northwest anymore. When the social media company that is now Groupon bought up the block where the DC Eagle was, it took almost two years to find a new location. It's in a seriously nasty part of DC. No ANC (neighborhood council) would allow a gay bar. It's a half mile to the nearest metro which shuts down at midnight. Lyft and Uber won't go there. Only recently has the neighboring parking lot allowed the Eagle's customers to use the lot at night: they had cyclone fencing to prevent it before.

It's not any different in other cities where the city councils would rather push the gays out of town all together.

Interesting point about SM surveillance. Between the helicopter parents, post-9/11 police state and social media, they must feel like they are always at risk. Never thought about that - makes sense. Sad but probably a valid point.

Y’all are so beholden to stereotypes

In Chicago, piano bars were actually some of the first to go - and those attracted an older crowd (so the "millennials don't drink" wouldn't apply) and they were fairly quiet. It was so sad when Gentry closed. I only went there a few times because I was still in my 20s and early 30s & felt out of place - but I wanted to become an eldergay and sing show tunes in there one day. My friends took me to Townhouse in NYC for a taste of that, but still I am not 40 yet. Felt weird a little bit. Everyone seemed to know each other though except this one weird guy standing up against a wall looking angry. I think that's probably the last place people would honestly talk to strangers just for fun...without thinking they wanted to fuck them. Who knows. I only went once. There are far more NYCers on here.

Are there any big hip hop clubs in NYC?

It's a combination of things, and I'm sure apps play a role, but more than anything, a lot of bars closed because there are so, so, so many more options for ways to meet people if you're gay.

Zoning and rent has come into play in big cities over the last decade, especially. Anywhere where there's been a lot of development, often the neighborhoods end up pushing out the bars that made them popular. Same with restaurants. I live in an area of Chicago where all the cool edgy restaurants launched 10-15 years ago. Now they're all priced out because developers want to hike their rents.

Lemme ask the elder gays here who keep bringing up the DWI point. Was this not an issue in the 70s and 80s? I'm sure drinking and driving was always a thing but I feel like the campaign against it only kicked up as recently as no holding cellphones while driving.

I love a good, loud, bar but y'all are also right about not making them social. Host new events, open up coffeeshops, etc...

R130, wasn't MADD (Mothers against Drunk Driving) responsible for the push for stricter laws against drunk driving? I don't when that kicked in though.

They're probably dying out because younger people are becoming more and more socially retarded by the year. It's sad to see how ill equipped so many young people are at dealing with others face to face.

R132, it's annoying enough to deal with them here, constantly attacking us, wishing us dead, then flipping about-face and begging us for old pop culture details so they can feign experiences. They are quite gregarious online, the little sociopaths. in bars, they just hog entire areas, shove themselves forward in abr lines, etc.

Few are asking y’all for ancient pop culture details. Stop exaggerating

Part of the reason gay bars are less popular is purely for financial reasons. Bars are expensive. I'd rather drink at home. However, I wish there were more popular bathhouses.

I’d rather drink at home. It’s fun seeing what I drunk posted on FB the next day. I also enjoy drunk internet shopping. I enjoy seeing what drunk me bought for sober me.

I don’t drink

I don't drink either. And Hornet is already dead, not dying out They show users online for days after they've logged out, because if they didn't there would be no one to show.

100% what R110 posted

It's not just other people's socials, either

It's you making a video with your friends when you're drunk and texting it and other things you thought were hilarious to each other and the next day you watch it and think what a complete ass you looked like.

And the fact that if you work, you're expected to be on 24/7 and if there's an email chain on Saturday morning no one cares how hungover you are from Friday night.

Also, drag shows are on TV now!

Now that so many people are openly gay one can meet other gay people in a lot more places than just a dingy bar with its over-priced drinks and shit music.

But can you grope and kiss them openly, R141?

Depends on where you are. But I was referring to simply meeting other gay people. Not what they choose to do later.

[quote]Part of the reason gay bars are less popular is purely for financial reasons. Bars are expensive. I'd rather drink at home.

That's definitely part of it. Going out drinking used to be cheap - you could get blasted drunk for $25 even in NYC. Not anymore! Drink prices are ridiculous now.

[quote] you could get blasted drunk for $25 even in NYC. Not anymore! Drink prices are ridiculous now.

It's the same in LA. It hovers around $14/$15 if you want one 'nice' drink.

So, in other words one drink in an LA bar costs about almost as much as a one-year membership to DL....

Drunk driving was very common through the 80s. MADD and reality set in and pushed for stricter laws. It would be shocking now how often people drove drunk in the late 20th century. By the 90s things toughened up.

Of course, it doesn’t really affect NYC or very urban areas. And with the rise of Uber, it’s much less of a hindrance. I think it’s the new sobriety/switch to pills and pot combined with capitalism which has killed most of what was good in major cities.

In the. 80s, DUI frequently got you a slap on the hands. I knew at least one guy who had 5 DUIs: only fines, no jail time. Seriously. He got sent to driving school a couple of times.

Pretty sure he showed up drunk, too.

In 1981-82 a well drink at any gay bar (or any bar) was $2.25-$2.75, this was when the minimum wage was $3.10 an hour. An Absolut and tonic was $3.00, or MAYBE $3.25, but probably less.

Now the minimum wage is what $7.75 and a lousy well drink is $11.00 and an Absolut will run you what, like $14.00?

Also, the music in most gay bars is hideous. Some DJ mafia decided decades ago that we all like oontz-oontz-house and screeching divas.

We don't. I go to bars that play different music; rock, Latin, anything but the heinous diva thumpathon.

Not all gays are into drag shows. Most gay bars have turned into exhibition houses for drag queens.

It's easier to get dick in person than on an app (especially if both are horny and drunk). I'm WAY more selective on Grindr.

It's been decades since I was a bar goer. What do they do in them now, stand around peering into their smart phones?

R152—“the Bar Goer”

Yes, [R152]. The worse are the guys on Grindr in the bar! Like c'mon, pick up your face and talk.

[quote]The worse are the guys on Grindr in the bar! Like c'mon, pick up your face and talk.

I mean, that usually means there isn't anyone in the bar the guy on his phone wants to talk to and is seeing what's nearby so he can go there instead.

So is the decline more or less equally as bad in all developed countries or is say the decline worse in the US than the UK? Is Canada, Ireland, France ,Denmark , Australia etc all experiencing the same phenomenon of decline in the gay bar/club?

^^^ Bump for DLers from Canada, Ireland, France, Denmark, Australia, etc

theyr all like us, sittin on our drunk high asses watchin DL and sex on line.....maybe ordering cock to be delivered. even restaurnts are dying, yay grub hub

made myself go out recently, tired old drunks, best cock is on line

R148 Chain restaurants like the Outback and O'Charley's regularly have 5 dollar signature and mixed drinks. If they can charge that, why can't the average bar?

The anti-drunkenness trend seems to be a big issue. The high end cocktail bars where people buy 1 or 2 drinks or the “craft” beer scene where people are drinking a few good beers instead of 6 Buds. Pills, pot and apps.

In NYC, most of the gay clubs/bars are overpriced Ariana Grande dance factories with okay to unh okay drag shows thrown in on weekday nights. There is not a lot of variety. The exceptions would be in Midtown East The Townhouse (3 bars in one: a chill, quiet chatty old school bar in front, piano in the back and GoGo “bar”/room in the basement on Fri-Sat. Caters to the 45-55+ crowd... but is very packed and with a mix from 20s-30s to 60s-70s+ on Fri-Sat nights), West Village’s Duplex (a Gay/Straight piano bar, with a bar upstairs), Monster (piano/bar up, dance down) HK bar DBL (pulsing music but really cheap like $5-6 drinks and because of that it’s always packed) and there are a few others that are different than straight up pulsing dance clubs but very few, even Flaming Saddles (the gay Country bar/Coyote Ugly) is more likely to play Ms. Grande than Reba, Dolly or Shania now. I think Millennials just aren’t as likely to think of a gay bar as a place to meet for a “cheap” drink and a chat at 6pm on a Tuesday night, because you’d have to scream at each other over Beyoncé screeching in the background, so why not go to the straight wine bar around the corner before going to let your full-on Yasss Kween out at the place that stereotypes us all as wanting to constantly twerk to a blaring ‘Milkshake’ by Kelis and ‘Juice’ by Lizzo. It’s like just at least have chill 90s adult contemporary music or something for weekday happy hours.

Still that said... I’d rather be in a gay bar over a straight bro bar any day. Upscale hotel bars are my 2nd choice.

R162 - you make a good point. Fortunately, the Christopher St bars are much better than the HK bars. Monster, Julius, Duplex, Hangar, Ty’s are good, low key gay bars where you can get a cheap drink at happy hour. That’s why I don’t understand the gay bar hate here. There are plenty of gay bars that aren’t dance music and drag queens. Nice bars where you can have a relatively cheap drink after work and maybe chat up someone.

Guess I’m fortunate because most of the bars in the West Village are still hanging on (except BSNY - but serves them right for becoming all drag queens all the time stage show rather than a fun, indie bar). One of the joys of living in a gay ghetto (well, a former gay ghetto) is having an abundance of options to actually meet a diverse group of gay men in person. All ages, races, backgrounds - and relatively low attitude and engaging usually.

I only visit NYC every few months or so and always have a great time at Nowhere. Wish we had bars like that in DC but it's all (unwarranted) attitude 99.9% of the time.

nyc is not typical, most citys have gay bars closing right and left. the 2 for one drink bars seem to be doin ok tho. yea

Our local gay bar used to have drink and drown nights. All you can drink for a $10 cover. The straight neighborhood lushes even came out for that.

shit, im in for that ...wish frisco had that.

Gosh r166 I think such promotions would be illegal in the UK!😯

r166 those days are gone, unfortunately. I wrote upthread that you could get shitfaced drunk for little money but that's int he past now. Everything is overpriced where drinking is concerned.

Liverpool's most famous gay nightclub Garlands is closing down. Sign of the times and quite a blow to the gay scene in Liverpool. Many I'm sure will reminisce on memories from its 25 year plus history.

A gay nightclub called "Garland's?" OMFG!

Indeed r171 it's an inspired choice of name!

It will be the Masquerade bar or Navy Bar next to close in Liverpools gay scene.

You know it's illegal to have all male bars, right? If females want to come in, you cannot say no because it's discrimination.

We don’t want to get bashed by “queers” at them

Drag queens killed them, drag queens ruin everything.

I don’t mean to toot my own horn, but as soon as I turned 40 and quit going out, they pretty much died here in Houston.

R174. There are exceptions, of course.

- nudity - private clubs/membership

Set up functioning urinals in the bar itself. That creates an exception. Clothing check and lockers where men can be naked. That creates an exception.

No liquor license/BYOB also solves the problem.

Are your going out days behind you r177 ? Do you think you will ever go out on the scene again?

r178 What an intriguing idea urinals in the actual bar!!😄

The final act ... own and operate the bar as part of a religion that has been recognized by the IRS.

Done. That’s a stated exception under ADA. Let’s say there’s a “Sons of Freyr” faith that practices gender exclusivity in socializing. While you have to have a much clearer theology than “no chicks in our bar”, an articulated religious premise is basis for exception.

Very witty way of making a good political point! r181

I do wonder what the gay scene in my own country the UK will look like in 5 years with many older guys ageing out of the gay scene lifestyle and younger guys not bothering and many increasingly being teetotal? Apparently the financial size of the nightclub sector in the uk is shrinking by about 6 % a year. That's going to hit the gay scene hard in the next few years.

I wonder about that as well, r182 but in the US. Gen X has pretty much aged out of the gay bar scene and now the older Millennials - now in their late 30s - are starting to age out. The younger ones are addicted to their phones and don't socialize like their older peers did. It's going to be a very different scene, I think.

Near extinction level different r183?

I'm surprised no one (that I saw) actually Googled alcohol consumption. Millennials are not drinking less. Alcohol consumption has remained steady/slightly risen since 2004.

r185 Well in the uk around a quarter of 18 year olds are teetotal so I'm not sure you are right as I understood the USA to be on a similar trajectory?

We have a bar name "ELE" (Extinction Level Event). A bar for something other than getting drunk at. Social games, charging stations, streaming movies (not porn. at least not all the time).

That sounds boring AF.

It's an Extinction Level Event, hon.

The cruising activity in gym locker rooms shows that the US needs more bathhouses. Make bathhouses popular again!

Well R186 the data I cited is for the US, so maybe the UK is different.

But when you say “you understood the US was on the same tragectory” please cite studies that say that. I spent a fair amount of time searching, and I found no study that said alcohol consumption was deceasing in a significant way worldwide (or in the US or UK).

[quote]Well in the uk around a quarter of 18 year olds are teetotal

Is that quarter Muslims, perhaps?

I'm 48 years old and I've never been to a gay bar I live in a very small town in the middle of gay nowhere and the nearest gay bar was 55 miles across the state line also I was told it was a drag bar frequented by twinks and older men who were into twinks and I'm neither of those.

R185, the graph is behind a paywall, but I've seen it before. You're right. The statistics are properly based on ethanol consumption, which eliminates changing taste in beer vs. wine. vs. spirits.

Anyway, these things go in cycles. Here's a publication from the NIH discussing alcohol consumption trends. Scroll to the end for graphs. Total ethanol consumption peaked in about 1980, declined dramatically into the mid-90's and has been rising slowly since (through 2016). Despite the alcoholic reputation of the postwar years, Americans actually drink more now than we did in the age of the so-called three-martini lunch.

Alcohol consumption will probably go down as the big Millennial cohort ages out of the heavy drinking years. It will go back up again when people get over the current spasm of Puritanism.

I don't think drinking habits have much to do with gay bars dying out. Note that ethanol consumption was much lower in the '90s, when bars were thriving.

One of a number of articles saying alcohol consumption in the USA is falling.

[quote]Despite the alcoholic reputation of the postwar years, Americans actually drink more now than we did in the age of the so-called three-martini lunch.

I think beer consumption is the reason why. Back in the day, it was more about hard liquor but today beer is consumed more than ever. It's become quite fashionable with microbrews, homebrews and that kind of thing. And of course more beers tend to be consumed per sitting than hard liquor drinks.

The problem is boredom!

Gogo boys, drag lip-synchers, overpriced drinks, shitty music and tacky decor. Nothing has changed in decades.

R197 the music 1000x times louder and people can’t stay off their phone to have a conversation

The only bar I enjoy now is the amateur strip bar. There’s a show every night consisting of anywhere from 8-15 guys competing for cash prizes (plus tips of course.) Most of the “performers” are straight (which I prefer) guys under age 28 that work out regularly. I get my eye candy, get to see a show, and get a nice little buzz. No pretense, no stand & model, no BS. And free parking.

Because gays hate all other gays except the one currently presenting hole or dick to them.

Truth r200

R200 - you describe it precisely. That is the reason I’m only into straight men.

r200 Why do they hate them? Is it because they see them as rivals?

Because gay men, like all humans, are fucking annoying r203

As a gay man, I don’t necessarily think we hate other gays because we think they’re rivals, but we constantly judge and pick apart their flaws with a fine tooth comb and those flaws disgust us because we are perfect.

R204. At least gay men are fun to have sex with. The rest of humans? Not so much.

Simple: they are dying out because people don't go to them as much. Why? That's the real question. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that there are now so many other ways to connect with new people. In the past if you didn't get out and surround yourself with people, you would be rather alone. Now apparently many people feel that being on social media and hook-up apps meets that need. Combine that with the fact that people at the older end of the spectrum often (but not always of course!) don't feel the need to socialize as much (online or in person) and get settled into life more, and the likelihood of a gay bar being successful declines. Things change.

I remember Sunday afternoons in the Village in Summer of the late 80's. All of the bars were packed. Start at The Monster for lots of laughs with drag queens and the piano bar. Mosey down to Ty's which was small but packed with hot men. Sometimes you'd catch the eye of a hot guy in the giant mirror over the bar and smile. Then you'd go down a couple of blocks to The Dugout where men were pouring out onto the street. If your guy from Ty's was there, you were set. If not, there were hundreds of men to talk to. Man I had great sex back then. Got lots of parking tickets for leaving my car parked overnight on NY streets, but it was worth it.

R208 - sounds like you had some memorable Sunday Fundays! I used to love going to The Eagle in the afternoon on Sunday and dancing to trash disco from the 70s and 80s.

r207 if your analysis is correct and I'm not saying it isnt then it sounds like we are on course say 20 years from now for gay bars and clubs to become a rarity and more or less a relic from a by gone age ie of their time from a particular era.

R208 - what is great about NYC is all those places are still there. At least for now. Not sure how but except Boots and Saddles and ChiChis, Christopher St has been relatively unscathed by the mass closures of gay bars. Thinks it a combo of tourism and outer borough regular visitors. And locals like me. Everyone needs to do their part. Support your local gay bar.

r211 But why do you think its important to save local gay bars?

"Trans people, immigrants, poor people and people of color can read this code and often feel unwelcome. While many bars claim to be “for everyone,” few offer multi-language marketing or cultural events that engage marginalized queers rather than just fetishizing brown or trans bodies."

Did the writer just cut and paste this bullshit from an HRC pamphlet?

r213 Where is that quote from please?

R214, it's from the article OP linked.

Thanks r15

I meant r215

I go to mixed lounges and spaces. I like hanging out with my straight bros in mainstream venues.

Masculine guys will not set foot in places with drag queen performers. Its a hot guy repellant

Ain’t that the truth r219

Gay bars got so druggy.

And too fem

The one bar anywhere near here is full of twinks and dragqueens so pretty much a radioactive fallout zone for anyone not into either of those.

Tweakers

Cover charges?

Gay bars are dying because everyone now has Cell Phones with Grindr etc and the Internet.

Am I the only one that thinks that drag has lost its shine? There are soo many drag queens now and the majority are all the same. It's not shocking or new or even that creative anymore.

Sure, there are some good ones, but there are too many middling ones stinking up the scene and trying to suck up all the attention in a room.

I ran a pretty famous club from about 2004-2014. Now, we saw the writing on the wall a long time ago and it was the apps/phones that were killing our business. People stayed home more to hookup there and when they did come out, they were glued to their phones. Sad to say but we as a society have moved to a digital age in that we don't know how to interact anymore. What used to be a glance across the bar has become a "woof" online. What was a close dance and the ensuing handsiness has become a nudie pic unlock. I know younger guys who can't even interact in person. For those of us who are slightly older (30's) and grew up at the tale end of the nondigital age and who aren't particularly "app-ey", it's a tough market now and I don't enjoy going out as much as I did before everyone sat there and stared at their phones.

Agree R227. Every gay bar feels like they have to have a drag show. I HATE drag shows. It used to be only small town gay bars had drag. Now major city clubs have them constantly. Why? I refuse to be forced to be an audience for a show I don’t want to see. I like going to a gay bar and meeting people - not watching an wholly sexually unappealing / boner-killer narcissist beg for attention and tips.

For the many who are seeking only masculine guys, the presence of drag queens really kills the vibe

It’s the most boring and unimaginative waste of time in a bar, and yet every bar does a drag show. This only pulls in the straights repels the gays and then the owners whine that gays won’t come.

Quit chasing us off. Oh yeah, quit blasting the shitty music at full blast. How about a dance floor? Remember dancing? Yeah. That’s one of the reasons we used to have for buying drinks . You’d talk to a guy, dance with him, buy him drinks, dance some more - then go home and fuck. Now, there’s nothing active to do in a bar. Just god awful, anti-gay straight oriented crap.

So, the bars that continue to host fucking awful drag shows deserve to go under. The more women you pull in, the faster you go under. Figure it out, dumbasses.

First, you need good drink specials, a good happy hour.

It is bizarre how no place has dance floors anymore. It was the thing that we gays did for decades. Now unless you go to a one-night party in Brooklyn, no place has dancing. I wonder why? Do millennials not dance? Too socially insecure?

r232 I think that's now illegal in parts of the UK if not the whole UK.

[quote] Do millennials not dance?

Possibly something to this? The music that is in is more lounge-y. It's not like before when danceable music like disco, new wave, techno, house was everywhere.

Are younger gays perhaps falling out of love with disco? r235

Disco? What dude?

Another gay venue in Liverpool to close.Out nightclub announces it is closing its doors.The second venue in Liverpool in less than a month to make this announcement. The first being Garland's.

I miss the dancing. But having a dancefloor requires an extra permit, and more liability insurance. So I can see why bars don't have dancing as much.

It is a lot easier to curate your interests on an app then gamble at a bar. And much less expensive.

There is a big difference pre-arranging a meet up with friends for cocktails then rolling the dice stopping into a bar. A bar playing music you may not like, with drinks that are over-priced, with a crowd you couldn't possibly imagine getting into.

I also see no problem with gays wanting to do the husband, house, job paradigm after awhile -- fuck this idea we need to bow down to the QT(whatever)+ temple 24/7 -- fuck off!

So the gay scenes future is bleak r240 ? Seems like the tide is against them.

R241, I don't think it's bleak -- but maybe it needs to transform a little bit? I think there will always be a need/market for gay people to congregate together. But maybe it needs to move beyond the traditional dance club/drinking scene?

This is so depressing. I miss the days when you could go to a bar and get raunchy, fool around for a bit and then go home. The fucking straight girls gawking and trying to get friendly with me totally spoil the fun for me. And let's not even talk about the straight guys who go fishing for pussy to the gay bars, hoping the girls will get all moist looking at the gay hunks so they can then have a chance.

I liked gay bars but also just trendy bars and clubs, and did well in them because I was good at positive chit chat and I was tall and handsome. All good things come to an end. Young people are figuring out something new with technology involved and different ways to make tribes. I'm glad they have PrEP and I hope they don't get some new untreatable STI.

Gays are getting priced out of the gentrified gayborhoods. So the gay bars there dry up as the gays leave.

Ditto R244. Bars totally worked for me - and I still like going to them occasionally . Accept things change and wish them well. We all grew up with challenges. Absence of bars because of assimilation and healthier living isn’t such a horrible challenge.

Good points r246

Any ideas r242 on how that transformation may look or play out?

As a frequent visitor of gay bars in the past, I too quit going when all the females came. It’s weird getting sleazy with a bachelorette party going on next to you. I now go to midtown bars (primarily straight) and don’t show up until about midnight. I then find hot “straight” dudes that are very buzzed and try to befriend them. On more than one occasion it has led to me blowing them in their truck. The ultimate goal is to have one fuck me. Like they say, you gotta play to win! It’s like fishing.....eventually with enough persistence I’ll get a bite.

r248 I wonder if back eva decade or so ago gay venues were starting to struggle financially hence the big or bigger embrace for straight females and hen parties etc?I wonder now how many gay venues would be financially viable without the patronage of heterosexual women?

I enjoy going out but once you're at a stage of having an established social group, it can just be more enjoyable to spend time focusing on your own friends rather than in a swirl of randoms. Friends and friends of friends, at one of our homes, we get to choose the music, the range of drinks and snacks, and who gets in. Not to mention having cheaper, better quality drinks and snacks. It's safer, less hassle, and again, Id like to emphasise, we get to choose our company., no one can force us to entertain homophobes, LARPers...

Speaking for all the non gay bars losing business, I think the opiod crisis also plays a roll. The would be town drunks have been replaced with pill junkies.

Most millenials are in debt. No one has the money to spend at a bar. They are still drinking.. at home and at parties

In contrast, gay-inclusive sports bars are doing well. It’s a good way to get masc guys to feel comfortable in a gay space

Gay bars are so trashy.

R253 meet R248

R253, we are certainly very different types of people

I meant r255

Social media took away the gay bars. Very sad, considering I don’t do social media to meet someone.

The last time I went to a gay bar, 60 percent of the patrons were women...go figure!

I see a cute guy across the room, but NO...it’s a female cruising for another woman. Things are just too confusing these days.

It’s all the women’s fault. I love women, I just wish we had an all male space again.

Any bar can be a gay bar now. There isn't a stigma in most places now. Except parts of West Virginia. If you are a stripper ... and illiterate ... West Virginia is for you.

r254 Has that always been the case or is it something that's worsened/become the case over recent time?

The music in gay bars sucks big time now.

r264 It can certainly be near impossible these days in gay pubs /bars to hold conversations .The gay pubs in the UK anyway have largely become semi clubs with their blaring DJ music. Its really spoilt it for me.

We had a good gay sports bar in DC. Then, the hags discovered it. Now it's filled with straight families who've taken it over.

I feel your frustration r266

Last night, the ex took friends from out of town to the DC Eagle.

It was a total shitstorm. It was a “special event” night. Normally, this means one of the large ballrooms upstairs are used, closed off and admission is charged. Nope. They took over the entire bar.

What kind of an event? It was a straight/queer event of of mostly women in fetish gear who didn’t know bar etiquette, had no clue what they were doing. They blocked pool tables, and treated gay men like pet poodles. One of our friends was asked “I never can make my pussy squirt during sex”.

Like what the actual last hell? I already had my fill from a couple of nonsense events there, but even the ex said he’s not going back after this.

Just rename it “Tampons” and be a straight bar for wanna be edgy fraus. It’s not a gay bar, it’s not a leather bar. It’s just another fake gay bar.

cause it way more fun to get ur butthole gang banged behind the 7 11 or the gas station....fresh air.

"They blocked pool tables..."

Now that would have pissed me off big time.

[quote]We had a good gay sports bar in DC.

Meh. Nellie's was never a good sports bar. I'd ask them to change the tv in front of me to the game I wanted to watch and the waiter kept forgetting. That's like sports bar 101.

I too love my pool tables and bonding with guys over a few games r270

Shouldn’t their be a “no straights allowed” in a gay bar?

r273 Would that be legal?

"Gay bars are so trashy."

R254 They used to be and that's what was so much fun about them. I wish they still were but the bachelorette parties have killed it.

I'm going to open a gay bar called The Safe Space and only allow straight women.

Nothing is more embarrassing than going up to a guy to dance, and finding out he is straight with a girlfriend.

1. Phones/App Culture. I remember in Chicago when Roscoes had "Male Call" with a big mailbox board, you'd wear a number, and they'd announce when you'd get a message. I was so young and innocent and would write nice things like "you look great in that shirt :)" and when I'd get messages it'd be like "I want to eat your ass like a buffet" or some shit. It'd be hilarious though and an ice-breaker pre-Grindr. Loved it. Now you don't even have old ice-breakers like that. People cruise on their phone while standing around hoping someone approaches THEM instead of trying to approach themselves.

2. RuPaul's Drag Race. Even in the the early days of the show it was fun when there were watch party nights or when a queen visited because it was still pretty niche. Now it's a big industry and when they bring in these queens along come the hags and losers. Good lord. And it's ubiquitous. When you'd have one drag bar in the past or a drag nice now e.v.e.r.y. bar needs a piece of the pie and there is no haven! NONE!

3. Too political. The fact OPs article even calls them "LGBTQ" bars is emblematic of the issue. The bars bend over backward to be "welcoming spaces" to trannies and "queer youth of color" or whatever else. Harsh reality: they don't pay the bills. Owners know it, clientele knows it and won't say it, but heaven forbid our bars and businesses not bow down to these social justice issues. Straight clubs wouldn't fucking deal with this either, but the woke "members of OUR COMMUNITY" needle and bitch constantly and the owners kowtow to it to their own detriment.

Those are my top three issues. Others would be gays feeling safer to go to any bar and not just "gay bars," #Metoo culture, and rising business costs in big cities rounding them out.

I agree - ENOUGH with the drag. Every goddamn bar thinks now they have to give a stage to one of the zillions of drag queen celebrity-wannabes. I do not go to a bar for a show. I go for conversation and meeting people - neither of which you can do when everyone has to stand and listen to the drag queen. I’m not sure if bar owners feel it will attract people - or if the drag queens just harass them endlessly to get a stage. We do NOT want drag - that’s for small town gay bars in the South and has always been a symbol of the absence of anything interesting.

R276 I see you and raise you “a specialty night inside an actual gym locker room” so it’s men only. Full bar service. Yeah, steam room. Massage. Dancing in the locker room: It’s a Jockstrap Party.

Thread Summation: Drag Saturation is at an all time high and needs to be stopped. Apps and technology are stunting younger peoples socialization which is furthering the problem in bars. Nowhere to dance or maneuver the crowd in more recreational ways unlike years passed when that physicality was integral. Too expensive in the current socioeconomic climate, behaviorally drinking has been curbed by all demographics.

Why dont club/bar owners really enforce dress codes? Or be more selective to clientele? Women should only be let in with a minimum of 3 men to 1 woman as an ex. (straight clubs/bars with any exclusivity have always done that). What about less mainstream theme nights? I can't see a group of women being at a 'Jockstrap Saturday' or 'Latex vs. Leather Thursday', ' Speedo Sunday', etc. kind of nights (extremely alienating, which should be used as a tool).

Seems like there ARE things that owners can do, but if they're not willing then they're digging their own graves. Either that or their hands are too tied by 'inclusivity' expectations. But if owners are only trying to serve a specific demographic why cant they?

Men only, please.

If you’re going to a gay club, at least wear a necktie 👔 after 5:00.

No more drag

R281 I will say ... whenever there's a jockstrap event at a bar in DC, women shove their way in.

It doesn't matter it's inappropriate. It doesn't matter that it's abusive behavior. Women do whatever they want until you dump drinks on them. Because they're privileged, entitled and they don't believe there's any reason they can't fondle men who have no interest in them.

Sexual abuse? That only happens to *women*. Haven't you read about that college professor? Women can't be perpetrators of sex crimes.

R285 is correct. I will never go to any underwear night, jock strap night, etc because there will inevitably be women present. It’s so ridiculous.

Straight women and trannies ruin everything

R285 Damn! Didn't know it is now that bad! I'm assuming that they dont comply with the dress code for the night, which should be grounds to turn them away. I stopped going to bars when I stopped drinking, so its been a minute since I've been to any. I used to LIVE for the Roxy on Wednesday nights but that should be a good indicator of how long I've been out of the loop.

Bartenders should be allowed to shoot soda water at these overly aggressive and intrusive pathetic wastes of skin.

I could deal with the occasional women. It’s the monopolization of every bar by drag queens that’s the problem. Women patrons I can ignore and continue my thing. Drag queens who insist every one in a bar stop what they are doing - including trying to meet people - and pay attention to their sorry-ass “routine” are what is killing gay bars for me. Then they want me to tip them!! Enough with the drag queens already!

r289 Now I think of it the most popular gay clubs and pubs I visited in the 1990s tended to have the fewest female patrons I'd even argue on many occasion the patronage was 99% male.

The Curzon club in Liverpool springs to mind. The testosterone levels in there were off the scale and so was the naughtiness!

Political correctness ruined the bar scene.

Bars are for old people. We fuck via app and cut out all the boring crap.

Trim SPA baby ! ! !

r292 There is more to bars than fucking!

I wouldn't care if the only gay bar around here closes down, because the owners are a couple of pricks!

Why what gave they done r295??

I remember back in the day a number of gay club and bar owners in Liverpool UK regularly sleeping with the latest young hot stuff that visited the club either by giving them a lift home after hours or even taking them to the clubs office or store cupboard for sex and blowjobs. It definitely caused jealous and resentment amongst some of the customers and hence problems and feuds down the line.

R296, They always seemed to turn their noses up towards the patrons in the bar as if they were better than them.

Also, a good friend of mine said he would always hear them make fun of some of the patrons that went to the bar.

They also I have a total prick who works at the door, the one you hand your money to. And after all the complaints about how rude he's always been, they still keep him around, even though the prick should have been fired a long time ago.

*They also have. ^

r297 Making fun of their customers?They deserve to fail.

I had no idea that former bear/leather bar Faultline in LA has morphed into a latino tranny bar.

Puh-leeeeze. Like anyone here wants to go to a gay bar. The gay bar heyday was the nineties and they ain't coming back. Now, if you'll excuse me I need to organize my Franklin Mint Limited Series Mama's Family plates and Bubba In Sweatpants needs dusting.

I'd have thought the heyday of gay bars was in the 1980s r301 at least that's what older gay men used to tell me when I was new on the scene in the 1990s?

shut up, gay bar doesn't even exist here

Where is here r303?

r304 the Capital "M' in south east Asia

Last night I went to the Eagle and Fubar in LA. They were both packed and I had a lot of fun.

Recently I've had the same experience in gay bars in Phoenix and Albuquerque.

Gay bars seem to be doing fine.

Plenty are closing r306 that's indisputable despite your personal anecdotes.

That would be a good topic for discussion: what was the best decade for gay bars?

The seedy but excitement of illegal 50's?

The burgeoning free love but still taboo of the 60's

The decadent but with great disco of the 70's?

The anything-goes 80's?

The wider acceptance and drug-fueled 90's?

Good post r308 I only experienced the 90s so will opt with that.The Liverpool gay scene was very colourful and unique back then!

I wonder what the gay scene will be like in 30 years if it even exists?How common will gay bars and clubs be?

Looks like the legendary Masquerade bar in Liverpool has been felled by the trend of gay bars and clubs closing down. Rumours have been swirling around the Liverpool gay scene for a while that it was financially struck but apparently it was closed on Friday night at the time of the year for peak trade at Christmas. Word is its closed but the owners have yet to make an announcement.

I did predict this months ago upthread.

R311 Sad. I’m in my late 30’s, and I am so glad I got to experience gay nightlife before it started dying out because of hookup apps. I feel sorry for younger gays who won’t get to experience the excitement and thrill of bar/club hopping from one gay venue to the next, and the excitement of never knowing who you were going to meet. Those were such fun days *sigh*.

Very fun r312

I do wish that not all hope us lost kind of thing but it isnt looking good. It's worse for lesbians though as apparently as a proportion of gay bars they have lost the most I think I read somewhere? Masquerade is legendary though in Liverpool. I think the Lisbon is the safest venue from closure in Liverpool but I'm struggling to see much hope of new venues opening up.

Anyone who usually these days doesn't bother visiting a gay bar planning on visiting one over the Christmas period as a sort of annual exception to the usual?

It's because straight women and trannies have taken over gay bars. Gay men have found other environments to hang out and congregate in, or have just taken advantage of the Grindr option. It lets us hook up without having to worry about straight chicks or chicks with dicks groping and flirting with us.

Gay bars were great for having fun with your friends, dancing and cruising with the hope you'd find a hook-up or more by the end of the night. Now you get a hook-up with a swipe but you don't get all of the great times. Loved my times in bars. And I made a lot of great friends.

R289 makes a great point. In Chicago, we have a pretty active gay club/bar scene. But most of the bars offering those shows confine the drag shows to earlier in the night. Which is a good thing because drag shows tend to attract straight women and distract from conversation & meeting people. That helps keep the bars focused on socializing while respecting what drag performances can bring to entertainment options.

My friend had a birthday "party" at a gay bar recently. I wasn't able to go, but when I checked his Facebook the next day, sure enough all the pictures were of him surrounded by his straight girlfriends. Hard pass.

Yup r316 Lots of great memories many young people are missing out on I suspect.

Interesting, r318

And increasingly common r320

I'm beginning to think with fewer gay men frequenting scene pubs and clubs that maybe most of them cannot survive without the custom of straight women or fraus?

Fair point r250 but there is also at least in my opinion a special thrill in meeting new friends and acquaintances on the gay scene each and every time you go out and never knowing who you will meet or chat with.It made going out feel like an adventure.

R321 When you let roaches and rats in, don't be surprised nobody wants to eat there.

Meow!!! r323 You are really not a fan of women in gay men's bars are you lol!😮😁 I do gave some sympathy with that feeling. My most enjoyable times and favourite evenings in gay bars was when the place was 99% full of male customers. I somehow loved the very male atmosphere. There was something distinct about it and not just in a sexual way.

The issue of women in gay bars for most gay men I talk to isn't about their presence there. It is about how they behave. At cabarets in particular (piano bars, drag shows, open mike nights, etc...), they can become very tedious with their desperation for attention, and very quickly as they get drunker, their misandry and homophobia comes out in spades, particularly if they have a boyfriend with them or a gay friend whom they want to make sure remains single all night. If I'm on the dance floor, and a hen party (yes we still do call them that!) gets too close to me, I can find a safe way to go somewhere else on the floor. But in a cabaret (particularly piano bars), their inner diva wanna be takes over, and they become very nasty when they do not get the attention that they feel they are entitled to. I enjoy women friends who are respectful and genuine supporters, but those out on a spree (gay zoo visit!) for a fun night can quickly bring the mood down. At my favorite piano bar just this past weekend, a screeching ogre of a female tried to get her boyfriend to sing all night and rudely screamed over the other people while they were singing solos. When their boyfriend didn't get the attention they thought they deserved, she packed up her other hags and they quickly left. Afterwards, we returned to our festive party and could relax now that screeching Sarah was gone.

R325 Hit it just right R324. Women feel themselves a privileged group in gay bars. They are pushy, loud and obnoxious. The worst is when there's a jockstrap contest or anything involving any kind of male nudity. The women push in front of the men. Seriously, you're in gay bar for gay men. Show some damn respect.

While some bars have now created footwear rules as many have industrial staircases, women are out of control at all gay bars, drag shows and everything gay. We've lost our remaining spaces and more bars close. Gay men won't go where the straight women have occupied.

I used to have a lot of women friends when I was younger. It's the same thing with all of them: "take me with you to the gay bars!". I flat out refuse. I'm not adding to the toxicity of the atmosphere in gay bar by dragging straight women in.

Gay men who do this should be kicked out and permanently banned.

Now, invert this. How would you feel if you were trying on something in a department store and a bunch of straight men barged in with cameras? How about grabbing you by the tits and crotch? This is what happens in gay bars with straight women. I'm done with women friends.

r326 Do you see anyway back to the very wonderful male atmosphere in gay bars in a previous era?

R325 Here responding. Friends of mine and I discussed with a gay bar manager as to why straight women love gay adult videos. We already know the explained reasons of why they like to go to gay bars, having been catered to for years until it really became too much. The manager, who seems to have a knowledge of such things, explained that while they will complain about the roughness of straight adult videos, they like the roughness and masculinity of straight gay videos which is a complete hypocrisy. It used to be a novelty to see straight women in the bars back in the 1990's, but by the end of the decade and going into the millennium, it has become tiresome.

The only way is for regular customers to basically not give these straight girl groups any attention. If they are there in a small number (no more than two!) with a gay friend and act respectfully or don't "ooh and awe" over the gayness of it all, then they are obviously true supporters. It is obvious that the gay men need to educate the straight female visitors to gay bars and let them know that certain behaviors are found to be repugnant in the gay scene. The gay bar managers and staff are powerless to do anything, but for a one time visitor to a certain bar to be given any sort of power when it drives the regulars away is certainly cause for action. We deserve to have our own spaces of comfort, not safe spaces in the strict sense of that phrase, but where we can have our moment away from prying eyes and not feel like we're being objectified. Sorry, honey, you may have a nice purse, but you are not Carrie Bradshaw, and I am not the cute little Pomeranian that you keep inside so you can get attention when you want it!

R327 Perhaps, as private clubs that don't serve alcohol. Bring your own booze, check it with the bartender. Without an alcohol license, many bars are free of the restrictions. As private membership clubs, they can create their own legal affinity especially if they're on private property outside of municipal oversight.

I've thought for some years about a Barn Bar. Buy up an old farm, convert the barn into a private club. No guests, members only. Anyone who wants to become a member goes through an application and membership board review. Provide camping, a pool, perhaps a small golf course - all nudist.

Knew gay bars/clubs were done for when would try to reach friends for hours and line was busy. This was in days when there was only dial-up connections and they were constantly on AOL, chats or whatever hooking-up. Things have only gotten worse for bars/clubs as technology advanced.

Fast forward to modern times of inclusion and equality gays (especially younger generations) have more places to meet than just cursing or bars. Young gays are meeting like straights; at school, college, work/professional environments, etc...

Now that technology has moved on to apps, so goes final nail in coffin of gay bars. You just don't have to go out to some random bar to meet people anymore if all you want is sex. That can be ordered in.....

Case in point was that new gay sports themed bar that opened on UES of Manhattan last year. It barely lasted a few months before shutting down. Ditto for Anderson Cooper's then BF's bar in Williamsburg "Love Gun".

Yes, you still have some bars like Monster, Townhouse and others are hanging on. And also yes, there will always be people who just want to go out for a drink/socialize, not just sex. But the golden era of gay bars it seems not just in USA but many other places seems to be over.

Years ago when gays went to a foreign city they would check out local papers or guides to find something. Now again they can just go to an app or on web.

Gay bars were created to help gay men find gay men in a time when that was essentially the only option. Gay bars and well known crusing spots and coded ads in the paper were pretty much all we had. Today's generations of gay men luckily don't have to struggle like that, they can openly love, and thus gay bars aren't needed. They don't have to do all the gymnastics just to find a hookup, and for that they are blessed. It also doesn't help that straight people and trannies ruined the atmosphere, but still. Gay bars were born out of a struggle, a struggle that doesn't really exist in America anymore.

r331 To be pedantic strictly speaking no bar or pub is actually needed but that's no reason for them not to exist. I think gay bars and clubs always had desirable purposes beyond the primary functionary purposes that you rightly highlight.

R1 is right. I stopped going to bars in the mid-2000s because they suddenly became filled with straight women.

r333 But wasntthere any significant attempt at pushback by gay male customers at this 'invasion 'rather than passively just letting it happen?

R331 Lives on the coast.

Indeed r335 their view is a little too don't worry everything is fine and dandy no problem here.

R334

Some bars/clubs (at least in NYC anyway) tried to keep fraus and trans out by specific dress codes; Splash was famous for "no open toed shoes". Others just had whoever manning ropes tell whoever wasn't wanted it was a "private party" that night. Oh and "there is no guest list tonight..."

Problem was these tactics in some form had been used (and still were) to keep minorities out of certain bars/clubs. Long story short a gay bar/club is a public accommodation like others; people (AAs, darker Latino-Hispanics, and yes even fraus and trans) complained to media and or various city agencies. That in turn got whatever bar or club put on notice.

On another note guys would often complain about too many women or even trans in a bar by having a quiet word. But by the 1990's with arrival of internet, AOL, chats, etc... people found other ways to hook-up; so as we've been discussing rather than protest, guys just took their "business" elsewhere.

It's a two way street. In Long Beach they just closed a bar that was there 30 years called Ripples. They blamed the apps, but truth is, popularity dropped off because they had not remolded in all that time and still charged a cover circa 1980 when they had a captive gay market. They sold out to the highest bidder for over 3.5 million dollars. They claim they "tried" to find someone who would keep it a gay bar but in reality they wanted that someone to still be the highest bidder. They chose money over giving back to the gay community.

They left nothing behind, no gay bar, no gay club. They donated no money to the gay community. Meanwhile, they ran all around town and on Facebook talking about how they left a legacy. MARY!

The thing I really miss about gay bars that most people overlooks was just the social aspect of it. Yes, lots of men went just to find someone to hook up with, but more than half were usually there just to make new friends, catch up with old friends and socialize with other gay men. You really cant do that on the gay apps, its all about sex and only sex or fuck off.

[quote]I agree - ENOUGH with the drag.

I agree, if I see it's going to be drag night, I avoid like the plague. It major catnip for straight woman. In fact the last time I went for a friends birthday, it was literally more woman than men in that gay bar. I would say 8 out of 10 were fish.

I lived in West Hollywood for 25 years and moved to New York over a decade ago. I had seen the invasion of straight women happening because when the Abbey became too crowded, they simply began going to Rage or Mickey's, and the bars even hired female dancers which made no sense! When I visited West Hollywood a few years ago, I spent the weekend barhopping and on Saturday night noticed that the Rage had a big banner up indicating "No cover". Of course it was dead inside while Mickey's did have a bit of a crowd. Times sure have changed, but even having been there for 25 years, I felt it was not quite the same and was happy to return to Manhattan and my piano bar.

R341 which one Uncle Charlie’s, Townhouse, Duplex or Monster?

Thanks for your reply r337

I do wonder what the gay scene will be like or if it will even be recognisable 10 years from now?For a start the number of young people who are opting to be teetotal could pose additional existential challenge in the future.

Drunks don’t make good boyfriends.

R343

There really isn't much of a "gay scene" now; well absent Pride Day and certain other events.

Want to see where things are going? Just look at Instagram, Alam Wernick's activities, etc... For gays who aren't happily married busy decorating their homes (and having them photographed and shown), having/raising children, giving fablous cocktail parties and otherwise leading a main stream life, you have flip side; circuit or whatever parties were only (or mostly) white, buffed and young gays party with others like themselves. You don't see Pietro Boselli or his ilk at gay bars, but private and exclusive events are another matter.

Gay bars will still exist in future, but their number will never again reach levels before HIV/AIDS hit, nor decades that followed with growing "inclusion" and "equality". Young gays are meeting in college, marrying shortly afterwards and otherwise leading same lifestyle as their straight peers. This or they meet each other at or through work/their profession or whatever. Either way bars and cruising seem relevant to them as whalebone corsets. If they do get an itch, that is what Grinder or whatever app are there for.

The Gay Bars are dying because they can’t diversify their schedules. Drag Shows every 2 hours and Ariana Grande blaring at an eardrum shattering level 24/7 is not a secret winning formula. They need to have some chill Happy Hours where they play some like lower music, my friends and I want to chat and don’t want to immediately be plunged into a pulsating Circuit Party at 5:30pm after work, so we just go to chill straight Bars.

[quote]They need to have some chill Happy Hours where they play some like lower music, my friends and I want to chat and don’t want to immediately be plunged into a pulsating Circuit Party at 5:30pm after work, so we just go to chill straight Bars.

Those used to be called Piano Bars. Where you could actually have a conversation without thumpa, thumpa, thumpa at volume 11. And no they were not just for old trolls.

Crap drag.

I hate drag, it was funny when it was rare and a special. It's now more ubiquitous than fake boobs. And inversely as entertaining as it once was I might add. The last time I went to a drag show all they did was dance around through the audience lip-sinking and grabbing dollars, dollars, dollars, wash rinse repeat. Like a bad strip show, not a single one even got on stage. And none of them heffers looked as good as any of the ones you might see on RuPauls show by any stretch of the imagination. Even the straight guy in my group who was nervous going in turned to me afterwards and said it was boring.

I want alcohol-free gay spaces.

NOT with all the hags there R350.

I’m with you 100% R346. That’s the killer with gay bars for me. I would totally go if there were some more laid back spaces (I know they exist, just not the norm).

I despise drag and effeminancy culture. I have no interest in spaces dedicated to that crap.

If drag is so hated, who is promoting it?

R342 The Monster! I've been to the others. We call "Marie's": "Connecticut Housewives", so no thank you. Very rare invasion of frau's, but when they do come in, they can be quite obnoxious in their "hen parties".

r355 Well in the uk it's not just fraus who 'invade' gay bars but groups of very young loud drunken women!

[quote]If drag is so hated, who is promoting it?

Women! Go to a drag show, it's 80% woman. Ask who's still watching RuPauls Drag show, it's woman and house Fraus.

[quote]I despise drag and effeminancy culture. I have no interest in spaces dedicated to that crap.

Up until the late 80's, drag shows in gay bars were rare or never. Now it's almost every day of the week. Except you are not alone, gay men I know are board with the over saturation of it and combined with the hoards of woman who think they are being cool by going to gay bars to watch it.

We need DRAG free bars to get the men back and push the hen parties out the door.

With all these gay bars closing I am surprised none of you women haters swoop in and open your own "NO FISH ALLOWED!" gay bars. Why do you deny yourself the success and shit loads of profits you'd have for sure?

Maybe it's just me, but the whole social media (including hook-up apps and "chat" rooms) have lost their appeal a long time ago. I go out with friends or we hang out with friends who bring a plus one to meet some new guys.

Because it's illegal R359 to keep woman out. Would never hear the end of it.

[quote] Because it's illegal [R359] to keep woman out. Would never hear the end of it.

Bullshit. You are just too chickenshit. For you it's easier to complain since it doesn't require balls to deliver.

[quote] Would never hear the end of it.

By who? People who are important to the success of your venture? What keeps you to host "by invitation only!" / "private" events and promoting your club as such?

Put up or shut up. Nobody likes a whiner.

I dont have to open up a bar to prove something R362. An observation of fact stands on it's now.

The fact that you are attacking me and my masculinity by saying I don't have the balls to deliver is exactly the Hen Party attitude typical of women trying to manipulate men by berating them. Your bullshit has now power here. Go back to your chicken coupe and lay those rotten eggs where they belong.

r359 That would definitely be illegal in the UK.

R362

No, it is illegal in each of fifty states, and most of Europe to discriminate in public accommodations on basis of sex, gender identity, race, religion, etc...

In some areas local (such as NYC versus NYS) laws are greater than state, but never the less there you are....

If females busted into private PGA/golf clubs and other "straight" male only places, what makes you think they will sit still for being kept out of gay bars/clubs?

As duly noted previously in past many gay bars/clubs did try to keep out women (and minorities for that matter) by enacting various dress codes or whatever. Splash bar in Chelsea had a "no open toe shoes rule" for example. But that was 1980's/1990's at best. Any place trying that today surely sooner or later would face some sort of legal action. Fines and penalties are often quite severe for a business or individual, so unless you've got bail money or otherwise going to back financially such a scheme, push off.

Furthermore a simple Google or whatever internet search shows issue of females in gay bars has struck a nerve with pages upon pages of hits.

Bottom line is purely financial; gay bars/clubs are closing all over USA, Europe and perhaps Canada for lack of patrons for reasons we've already addressed. To survive places have had to become more inclusive or else....

Case in point; gay sports bar opened on UES/Yorkville last year to much fan fare, it lasted barely a few months before shutting down. Meanwhile ancient Toolbox on Second avenue has been around for decades still is in business. Toolbox has more of an inclusive atmosphere, events and so forth.

Then you have Brandy's piano bar on UES/Yorkville, another gay place that has survived for ages, but done so by being more "inclusive" over years.

How far inclusion goes however often depends on who is working the door. If you believe Yelp reviews certain females have been denied entry for various reasons.

Bottom line for those wanting a strictly gay male event/place then various circuit parties world over are a better bet. Those are more exclusive and discriminating in who gets in; but then again unless you are Euro/white, young, attractive with a rocking body don't fancy chances of making cut there either.

It's not the straight women who go to gay bars who are the problem. It is the demanding frau's who invade, either with their boyfriends or hen parties, and attempt to take over. When there are a few there and they aren't "woo'ing", they are fine as long as they don't get grabby or push their way through to get served first, be in front of the audience at a performance, or try to cock block or intrude on gay friends or couples who just want to be alone. I recall a thread on this same subject where one poster said that at his regular gay establishment, some frau complained about them and management took their side over his, believing them obviously in fear of the bad publicity they would get because of this calculating cunt. Where I go, there are older women who come in on occasion and they are vivacious without being pushy, friendly without being grasping, and simply just part of the crowd. It comes down to the younger women (20's through 40's) who have to push their way into everything that men, gay or straight do, that cause the trouble, and those are the ones the gay community and their true supporters should stand up to.

I want alcohol-free gay spaces in addition to trans-free hetero-free gay spaces.

Back when John Blair was gay party promoter "king", he issued strict rules against his (so called straight) go-go boys about their gfs who trailed behind. In short they had to stay in background and away from guys as they were "working". JB knew it was bad for image and business in a gay bar/club to have a bunch of grabby females lusting around bar or wherever guys were dancing.

Despite such restrictions Tracy James and a few other guys always managed to leave Roxy or whatever club/bar with females they met while working. How those girls managed don't know, but there you are.

There was some LI fag hag who held court at Roxy that was instrumental in finding talent for JB. Presumed she was at any other party JB promoted as she brought in all those "straight" Long Island or B&T hunky young guys who go-go danced.

R358

Have you not considered effect HIV/AIDs crisis of 1980's had upon gay bars/clubs?

Besides often owners dying, many places lost significant numbers of patrons as gays (sadly) either became ill and or died.

For places that survived into (or opened) in 1990's there were new threats; rising real estate prices were driving up rents in major urban areas. This was also being followed by reverse white flight as people moved back into cities which when coupled with various "nuisance abatement" laws made running a bar/club difficult.

Boots and Saddles had a difficult time finding new digs after a rent hike caused them to seek another location. Local residents of West Village didn't want them near. In end even after a new place was found B&S ended up folding in 2018, proving even with drag shows a place couldn't survive.

Any place that would let R370/R371 in will not be in business for long.

[quote]Case in point; gay sports bar opened on UES/Yorkville last year to much fan fare, it lasted barely a few months before shutting down.

Because its a sports bar. When have gays ever been into sports as much as their straight counterparts? Yes, some exist, but mostly as unicorns.

[quote]B&S ended up folding in 2018, proving even with drag shows a place couldn't survive.

LOL are you saying Drag was a way to save a dying bar? Good luck with that. In my experience, every bar that started a downward slide would start theamening their nights. Latin night, Jock night, Hip-hop, Ladies night. Those would not last long, they never worked in the long run. Then finally the last ditch effort, Drag night. The final nail in the coffin usually closing a month later.

"If you learn nothing else from reading this, please just memorize this sentence. [bold]Do not go to a gay bar for your bachelorette party. [bold/] Got it? Great! As much fun as it sounds to go dance to Britney Spears remixes with seven of your best girl friends, it’s obnoxious AF. If you’re in a group of straight women with zero gays, you should probably hang out somewhere else for the night. Not to get preachy, but gay bars exist because, historically, queer people couldn’t go to straight bars and be themselves. Luckily, we’ve come a long way since then, but gay bars are still safe havens for the queer community, so you shouldn’t be taking up half the dance floor."

" If you’re a straight woman who is hanging out at a gay bar, though, remember that it’s not really your space. Drink, dance, have a good time–but don’t try to make yourself the center of attention. There’s no one here you’re trying to impress, so you don’t need to be twerking in the middle of the floor."

"If two guys are dancing with each other, it is not the time for you to jump in the middle. Just like if it was your girl friend and a dude at a straight bar, don’t be a cock-blocker. It’s just like, the rules of feminism (and gay rights). "

R373

Wrong, so very wrong.

Boxers has been in Chelsea and HK for some time now; with both locations doing well enough. OTOH UES branch didn't last long.

There is also Gym Sports bar on 8th avenue

Boxers UES

r376 Awe I got my hopes up for a split second there as I thought you meant Chelsea London and k was tempted to try it out next time I visit London. ☹

Apps are at the core of the change. Other reasons include:

In the U.S. the desexing of gay bars that began with HIV and never quite recovered. Dark rooms disappeared and bars became increasingly assembly points for cliques of friends rather than places to make new friends. The architecture changed and with more windows and brighter lighting came more conspicuous consumption: showing off clothes or haircuts or a sea of gym bodies to be seen but not touched.

Too many bar owners are clueless, piss poor business people incapable of changing with the times or just too cheap. Finding a gay bar where the shadow of a cheap as fuck bar owner isn't cast over the whole of the enterprise has always been a bit of a trick, and now more so when more gay bars are actually owned by gays. Everything is cheap in appearance and dear in cost and begrudging of the customers. Desperate to sell a few more drinks they give the nights over to yet another unfunny bitchy fat old drag queen who insults the few attendees and thinks it deliciously camp and witty. DJs the same thing: what a full Tuesday night needs is not a forced party atmosphere and a bad DJ playing the same shit as in every other bar in the western world. Bar clients have been comfortably consuming non-alcoholic drinks in gay bars for years, but owners rarely make any but the most begrudging concession for them and offer too few options. There's a world of interesting specialty drinks and coffee and more that would go a long way to making customers feel that the bar was a pleasant place to be instead of some dirty shithole decorated with SWAG from distilleries and brewers and the smell of perfumed disinfectant. Make an effort.

In the U.S. it's mostly a lost cause. In Europe it depends on what city you are in. Berlin, Madrid, and Paris and (what's left of) London, all have very different sorts of places one city to the other and within each, but where it's not completely dependent upon one-off or semi-regular venues for big events and where there's a decent chance that stepping into a gay bar won't feel like walking into the saddest place in the world.

I tried to help them but once I left they didn't take my advice.

The ever-increasing acceptance of LGBT and dating apps. Gay people are becoming a lot more assimilated. That's good news, in my opinion.

Most gay bars have become completely focused on drag shows. Not something I want to see nor do I associate with being gay.

R382 + 1

Got really tired that every gay bar became ground zero for drag.

Drag queens and loud music ruin everything.

Am wondering are there any drag/trans bars left in NYC or elsewhere? Maybe that's reason why they've taken over gay bars.

At least back in day you had Sally's Hideaway, La Escuelita, Edelweiss and a few other places for trans/drags to go; but they've all long since closed.

I'd rather stay at home and look at Harry Hamlin in his underwear in an [italic]L.A. Law[/italic] rerun.

[quot]Am wondering are there any drag/trans bars left in NYC or elsewhere? Maybe that's reason why they've taken over gay bars.

That's not the reason. There is more than 10 times the amount of Drag Queens in the gay bars than there ever were in the past 30 years. I blame RuPaul. Glad she became famous and made millions and all but that damn TV show went on so long that it's breed way to many Drag Queens and wannabe Drag Queens. I remember an episode where they even made woman up as Drag Queens.

That's the problem, woman have globed onto that both straight and lesbians. It's the fad of the decade. As I said before, the last time I went into a gay bar with about 200 people, 80 percent of the audience were woman. I mean at that point they should call them drag bars instead of pretending their main client is gay.

[quote] Most gay bars have become completely focused on drag shows. Not something I want to see nor do I associate with being gay.

There is no correlation between crossdressing and sexual orientation one way or the other, but when gay men are associated with it, it is to suggest that gay men are inherently unmanly and are essentially women in all but name. Thus, it becomes a stereotype.

They need to bring the raunch and sexuality back to the gay bars. Everything is so sanitized and antiseptic now. And yes, there is still an audience for hard partying and sex -- even amongst younger gays.

R389 the Disney Princess Incest Survivors wouldn’t like that in “their” safe spaces.

r389 Do you still have lots of gogo boy dancing in clubs in the USA?They have never really been a big regular thing here in the uk whereas lap dancing clubs for straight men are numerous in all cities.

Overt raunch is so 1977. Keep that crap in the dungeon underground

R392, speak for yourself. You can always go to drag night next door if that's your thing.

The issue with the young straight women in gay bars isn't about "their protection". I've seen a group of them kicked out because they started recording the goings on with their phone, making others uncomfortable. If someone is closeted at work and they don't want their presence at a gay bar to end up on social media, it is a total intrusion into their life for someone to feel they are being "woke" by sharing their night at a gay bar. One time, I turned my back to someone who was filming and they actually asked me why I did that. I told them they didn't have permission to film strangers and what they were doing was wrong in a place where they are simply a guest.

Good on you r394

Ugh - cameras are a fact of life. Wonder Woman saving the world R394

I miss the days of the big night clubs in New York. I was never into the smaller bars. Also I think in a lot of places the fact that drunk driving laws are so much stiffer now than what they used to be makes it a real turn off to travel to and from a bar.

Yeah you can’t police people in public spaces

But the prevalence and ease of Uber and Lyft should be encouraging to bar hopping. So much easier now to go out in places like LA - or Dallas - and not drive.

I think it’s a new Puritanism. Younger people just don’t drink like we did 30-40 years ago. And the apps. And the integration / acceptance in the mainstream.

R397

Rudy G's crack down on "quality of life" issues was part of what killed big night clubs. Then came raid and subsequent legal action against Limelight and other clubs owned by Peter Gatien and others. Whole Michael Alig killing of Andre "Angel" Melendez gave NYC politicians, LE, community activists and others red meat needed to shut such places down.

Truth to tell large clubs had begun to fall out of fashion with "in" crowd as small intimate "bottle bar" places (such as Life) began to open in NYC.

Final nail in coffin came as city real estate values exploded and former mostly commercial or industrial areas more and more became residential. Many of the clubs, bars, party spaces were in parts of Chelsea, Far West Side, Tribeca, SoHo, Lower East Side, East Village, or even Mid-town where things were either dead at night or weekends (when businesses closed), or local residents were not much bothered, that all changed when luxury housing or at least well off people began moving in to these areas.

Who knew area around "High Line" would become so valuable and residential? At one point Roxy considered reopening, but local community board and residents shot that idea down quickly.

Paradise Garage space still exists, it is now a garage for Verizon trucks.

R400 Incest Survivor Mommies ruin everything.

[quote] Do you still have lots of gogo boy dancing in clubs in the USA?They have never really been a big regular thing here in the uk whereas lap dancing clubs for straight men are numerous in all cities.

R391, in LA we do have gay bars with go-go boys, but it's all very PG-13, IMO. The guys look nice, but they're dressed in some skimpy underwear and they're not allowed to show anything beyond that. This might be considered risque amongst your frau aunts and her girlfriends, but if you've been to other gay clubs in other countries -- where debauchery really does go down amongst gay men -- this is Disney in comparison.

[quote]Younger people just don’t drink like we did 30-40 years ago.

I’m a millennial and I can assure you younger people most certainly drink. It’s just that a lot of them have to have their fufu craft beers.

R397

At least in NYC and other large urban American areas that wasn't a problem. You poured yourself into a cab and went to another bar/club or home. *LOL*

Paris, London, etc.. were a different story as taxis always weren't outside clubs/bars waiting and otherwise could be difficult to find at 3AM or so.

R391

For real hard core go-go boys of old best bet are various circuit parties (though even there trans or females end up on stage....), otherwise various local ordinances, nosy busybodies and other reasons mean you don't see more of guys than you would in a gym or pool.

Not drinking is a good thing. Drinking is tied to morbidity, disease, criminality, and debased hedonism. Moreover, it undermines obtaining ripped abs.

More sex is an even better thing -- a work-out, mood-enhancer, alleviates stress and aggression, promotes intimacy, etc.

r406 Yes I do think that the explosion in gym culture and fitness selfies etc is a big part of the reason why fewer young people as a percentage are drinking.They are simply getting their kicks in other often healthier ways. However the number of non alcoholic beers lagers and wines etc is increasing and I think will continue to do so in future. A new trend that will likely become mainstream.

r406 Yes I do think that the explosion in gym culture and fitness selfies etc is a big part of the reason why fewer young people as a percentage are drinking.They are simply getting their kicks in other often healthier ways. However the number of non alcoholic beers lagers and wines etc is increasing and I think will continue to do so in future. A new trend that will likely become mainstream.

Oh, yeah, kids are not drinking like they used to. LOL

Yours truly,

MOLLY

Based on my fast knowledge of the gay scene in the 70's thanks to Cruising, why don't they bring back themed bars like that? I would at least keep the hen parties away.

Seriously, too young then, Is it true that back then the bars were themed, not by night but by location? Like a western bar, cop bar, preppy, leather etc?

Less alcohol and other unhealthy behaviors is a great thing. Gen Z is even more healthy and wholesome. 👍🏽

R411 Unfortunately, that would not keep them away, only drive them to come in and ruin everything. After all, the feminists can have their own private spaces (no men allowed), but supposed toxic masculinity has had a war declared on it by these juvenile "woke" females who believe that there should be no such thing as a male only space. "But who would monitor all male spaces?" one feminist once asked on a "gender studies" Yahoo chat board, while male monitoring of female spaces is off limits. One of the reasons I've become a gay MGTOW is because of issues like this. When women come in and don't try to take over or become the center of attention or become obnoxiously drunk or come in their packs, I have no issue with them. The one establishment I go to has a dozen or so regular straight women customers who are genuine friends to the gay community because they don't objectify us. We are just fellow human beings to them whom we can share our experiences with. They know how to act, and we don't have to police their behavior, because they came in already knowing what's up.

Bruh, This thread really brought out the stereotypical misogyny of old gay men.

R414 = Ellen Jamesian

R411

That was all largely before HIV/AIDs decimated gay community and was felt by extension in changes to bar/club scene afterwards.

Don't think in many major American or other cities you'd have enough strictly "cop", "leather", or whatever sort of special clientele to keep a bar in business six or seven days per week.

Back in the day gay community was just so regimented it seems. Here in NYC for instance preppy gays had Uncle Charlies on Seventh Avenue South, leather crowd had Ramrod down on West street, and just down block was Keller's for African American men from the projects and "hood" (and the snow queens that loved BBD who managed to get inside).

Further north on West street there was Peter Rabbit's, another bar for AA and Latinos but mostly a younger less tough crowd (trans and drag queens as well), and so it went. Better Days (African American bar/disco), Escuelita (Latino, AA, trans, drag queen), etc.....

But keep in mind gay bars then weren't always welcoming to everyone under LGT umbrella. Many of the bars in West or Greenwich Village including along Christopher street weren't welcoming to AA or Latino men back in the day; hence they started their own places.

Also as evidenced by comments in this thread many gay guys then (as now) wanted nothing to do with femmy guys, and certainly drag queens or trans.

You had bars like Ninth Circle on 10th street (Rock Hudson and Jack Wrangler were frequent visitors) that catered to a varied crowd, but still it was mostly white gays of certain age or socio-economic status.

It is also the newly "inclusive" and often well off white gays of Chelsea, Greenwich Village, West Village and other areas of say SF, Vancouver, etc... that don't want anything of the "old" gay scene in their area (gasp, it might frighten the children). They are often right up in front protesting Folsom Street events, and or bars opening that are less than quiet main stream sort of places.

Weren't most of the gay bars in NYC back then run by the Mafia? Not run, but sort of protected from outsiders and in kahoots with the cops? Of course for a "fee".

R417

That is correct, Mafia began with Stonewall Inn and branched out from there; pattern was repeated in many major American cities.

This is how Vito the gay mafia guy story got worked into the Sopranos. It was common knowledge to many that Mafia ran (or owners had to pay protection money), to NYC gay bars, clubs and after hours places. It is while Christopher is making a "collection" he spots Vito (in full leather drag) dancing with another guy.

It wasn't just protection money and or otherwise having mafia backing a bar/club; they shook down owners (as they would with whorehouses and regular bars they muscled in on) in many ways. From diluted booze (bought at huge mark-up), stolen cigarettes (ditto), any way they could mafia would extract money out of a business.

Late as 1980's mafia still had control over many bars (gay and straight).....

Vito (the Sopranos) caught in gay leather bar by another mafia guy.

Gosh all this talk of the mafia being involved in gay bars is news to me. I wonder if the criminal fraternity was involved in the gay bar club scene in the UK?

I think it was more of an east coast NYC thing. The Mafia tried but failed to come out to California back when they were big, too much other competition for street gangs. LOL Plus Vegas was ripe for the picking. I think there may only be one Mob family still on operation in LA. And all dying off.

Yeah it’s coz being gay is mainstream and only bachelorette parties go to gay bars now

I can't drink and I can't drive after dark. That'll do it. My boyfriend doesn't like them, either.

So you dont go out to any bar or restaurant that serves liquor R424. How older are you 90?

Integration and assimilation is the goal today

Youngest Boomers are now in their middle fifties; generations behind them especially Millennial gays have little to no reference (and or even need) for gay bars of old.

It has been said again and again, gay bars/clubs back in day served prime purpose of giving homosexuals and lesbians a place to meet with others like themselves. For most of USA and elsewhere gasy have a vast choice of options; from apps/online to simply meeting others like themselves same way as straights; work, school, etc.....

Co-worker has a "gay son" (her words, not mine) who met his BF in high school, continued dating through college (they went to different places though), got married shortly after graduating college and now are saving up with two goals in mind; buying a house and having children. That is the new normal for many young gays these days; not going out nightly to bars or whatever.

Besides while various bars or local clubs may be starving for gays the circuit party/special event scene is still going strong. White, Black and other parties world over continue to sell out with packed crowds. You only have to look at any of the Instahoe pictures some DL members love to gasp over to see guys attending events with wall to wall gays.

These are tough times for bars and clubs all over; tastes, cultural values and demographics have and are changing. Just as with straight places gay bars/clubs that are surviving have found ways to get people inside and spending money. There is zero indication that keeping fraus, trans, drag queens or whatever not gay males out will boost any bar's bottom line. In fact it could prove quite the opposite. Today's younger "woke" generation of gays may take offense to their female or trans friends being refused entry.

Bars in general are dying off. People are healthier - and they have lots of pill options including psych drugs.

Don't think it has anything to do with being "healthier" per se; god knows there are plenty of drugs and booze at various circit parties, gay cruises and other events. We know there are issues because today same as back in day odd gay may dies or whatever from OD on drugs or something.

Gays began getting all health conscious during "Chelsea boy" era post HIV/AIDS crisis, and yet bars were still crowded in 1990's for most part. Major difference was the clientele were more buffed.

To keep a bar/club open you need steady revenue seven (or six) days per week. This or perhaps one or two really blockbuster nights (usually Thursday through Saturday) where bulk of money comes. Then comes hard part; making sure money taken in covers CODB and more so there is a profit.

Years ago NYC like many other places had tons of cheap real estate; areas where rents were "affordable" or low enough that a bar or whatever could survive even if it wasn't making that much money. Those days in LA, SF, NYC, Boston and other major cities is largely gone or going.

This increase in costs is coming at a time when many gay bars/clubs are finding themselves almost irrelevant by younger generations. As stated several times in this thread, many gays today have better things to do with their time after work or school than go to a bar for any reason. If they do go out it does not automatically translate into a gay bar, club or restaurant. Such is the price of "inclusion" and "equality"; ghettos are no longer needed.

[quote]many gays today have better things to do with their time after work or school than go to a bar for any reason

Yeah, video games and internet trolling. I would not say they are better.

Some gay bar owners are just greedy. Look at the long history of this bar and several owners over the decades. It's only the last one that lost all the gay patrons, charged a cover when the place was empty and considered itself a high class bar serving alcohol in plastic cups. They begged, even cried on TV for a makeover and once they got their fee update from Tabatha's Makeover, they ignored everything they promised her they would do and went right back to their old ways and zero business. But the proof is in the sale. They cashed out at 3.5 million and no one wanted it for the business part of it. Just the land and the liquor license. So basically greed. That place was paid off decades ago. They sold out instead of selling it for say half that amount to get another gay owner in. That's how it used to work, you didnt just cross your fingers and hope the highest bidder would keep the bar gay, you made a deal to make it work. Keeping the business gay was the main priority, not just a nice to have on the check list.

To add insult to injury, they posted all over the internet and local papers about the legacy they left behind. Only thing is, they left nothing behind. Their reputation you know. But it couldn't be more far from the truth. A Legacy is when you leave something behind that benefits others long after you are gone. For example, they could have taken 1/3 of that profit, 1 million and donating it the local LGBT center. Or, sizeable donation to gay homeless youth project or leaving the bar to another gay owner, that's a legacy. NOT, when you shut down the bar and go buy a McMansion from all the millions you made off the gay community.

R431 I also wish the outcome of this had been different. It feels like something is missing everytime I drive along this stretch of Ocean Blvd and it feels like part of the community died when this place closed. Although business had dropped off sharply in recent years, this place still had a "presence" (at least in my mind), but maybe that's more about memories of years gone by and all the good times I had there. But that was more like late 90s-mid 00s and the world has changed so much since then. I hadn't been there in over 10 years when it closed last year. I don't think the younger generation ever quite "got" this place or understood what it once was or what it could be again. The potential was lost. Sad. Sunday Beer Bust was legendary.

Oh, and the Boom Boom Room on PCH in Laguna Beach was another historic gay bar that was legendary and SO much fun back in the 90s-early 00s. So many good times there in an absolutely packed bar and dance floor. It met a similar fate....closed in 2007 when the real estate was sold to a developer. Oddly, it was never re-developed and sits there empty except for occasional special events. Laguna Beach has mostly lost its soul and is now like an extension of Newport Beach (gag).

There are probably more straight women than gay men at gay bars nowadays. They became part of the mainstream. They’ll start having family nights soon and put the final nail in the coffin.

[quote] I don't think the younger generation ever quite "got" this place or understood what it once was or what it could be again. The potential was lost. R432.

Except that cant really be true if you head into West Hollywood where the bars are booming with younger people. I think two new bars just opened up there last year, and of course the Abby keeps expanding. So no I am not cutting Ripples any slack on why it failed. It's not due to the patrons, it's due to the owners who ran the place into the ground and just wanted to cash out with millions of dollars.

Lets be honest, locals in Long Beach who knew the owners knew they had a reputation for being cheap a-holes. Treat their staff like shit, spying on them, low pay, not listening to their concerns, just weird armature shit. They burned a lot of bridges over time. I read one response on their Facebook page where they were trolling for good buys and the first poster said "good riddance". LOL

I prefer mixed clubs

1)The Alphabet soup has killed gay safe spaces and turned them homophobic.

2) People socialize differently today.

R436 yeah because you are a bi cunt. All the bi and pan men go to mixed clubs because it's an anything goes fuckery.

r434 Interestingly though with the increasing number of gay men starting families and having children gay bars at least in the daytime could end up looking very different by accommodating that new dynamic. Possibly.

No R439 it's today climate of BTQ+ cancer who have eradicated actual gay bars.

r173 So dar they are both still with us thankfully. The Masquerade was taken over by 2 new guys including a nephew of the original owner. I do worry about The Lisbon pub though .

r440 Well shouldn't savvy bar owners push back against any climate that is harming their business?

R442 yes they should, but the ones who have are told they aren't "inclusive" and "woke" if they do that, and then anti gay corporations like Cuntfeed controlled by BTQ+ write articles about the "bigoted close-minded Cis Gay Men who want their gay bars to remain gay bars and how that's killing the memory of Tranny/Transvestite Marsha who threw the first brick at Stonewall and spearheaded gay rights".

In the 90s and Noughties we went for sex.

Now I can get that on my phone, we only go for food or for the view.

r443 You make a good interesting point in a colourful way!

I hate to be harsh but the trans community must know that if they set up trans only bars they'd fail hence why they attach themselves to others.

Technology seems to have ruined everything. And with the older generations dying out the by gone era of what use to be will be a relic like the roaring twenties. Newer generations will have a whole new spectrum of gay identity which is happening now.

Ahh well at least we got to experience the best part of the gay experience IMO. We truly did have it all whether it was good or bad.

r446 Perhaps there will be a reaction against it or more generally against aspects of the age we are in with technology , social media etc and some things will be rediscovered but probably not for a while yet. Stranger things have happened in human history and I have heard academics and experienced commentators argue that a backlash of some form against the negative seemingly all encompassing aspects of the internet and technological age taking place.

R446 I sure hope so but as time has shown through history, these mini off shoot resurrections are always short lived.

Too much change is happening and it’s not stopping. Sure I want everything to be like it use to be and heaven knows I’ve tried to hold on for dear life but.. I just can’t shake the feeling of what once was is slowly slipping away.

Can these newer generations make it right again? Or at least die into obscurity. Everything we stood for. What could bring back social interaction? And not this.. not what we’ve conformed to now but turn it back the way it should be.

^ Edit.. Not let it die into obscurity.

r448 Thanks for your reply.

If I was to summarise an answer for you it would be human alienation reaching such a point that a reaction towards the opposite or different reaction takes place.

A mini examination would be that despite increased technology and convenience in the modern age a huge increase in popularity, at least in the UK although I feel sure isn't unique to the British, has occurred in back to basics home cooking, home baking, cake making, arts and crafts , knitting etc.

This illustratesxan underlying human desire to return to something prior were they have a more active role in life and some of the daily activities rather than a one way journey to passivity. Taking an active creative role satisfying a feeling or desire to feel alive.To feel connected. Amateur description by me but I hope I am managing to convey a point that can go wider in what it applies to.

R450.. Wishful thinking on my part I guess.

I’m simply too nostalgic is all.

I miss the old days of the fun we use to have in the gay community.

Call me a sentimental old fool… lol

I have three different friends in three different cities who went out for a drink on a Friday/Saturday within the last month or two.

I know this because I saw them all post about it on FB.

All three of them had to leave after one drink because bachelorette parties had infested the bar(s) and they couldn't talk to anyone or hear anything for all the "Woooooooooo!" girls.

R448 Are you available for marriage? I could read your prose all day long.

r451 There's far worse things to be or be called! It will be interesting how things are 50 60 years from now when the angst 0ver current events has gone and clear vìew arrives