Bisexual men who marry women and return to men in middle age

If he has a girlfriend then maybe you should forget about it.

Maybe r1 but she is casual and I think they both know its short term .I wont play any role in speeding up the demise of their relationship.I wont make a move of any kind on someone who is paired up.Im more thinking ahead in terms of the next year or so.

Honey bun, he will always pick a woman in the end. Thats why he is having a casual gf. Plus, baby daddy to 7 kids? Sorry, too much baggage. The kids will always come first. They will spread toxic lies againdt you.

7 kids r3?? No 4 kids His eldest 2 children are 22 and 18, both daughters and going by their twitter accounts very pro gay equality so I cannot see them objecting .I honestly do not think the children will be a problem in the sense you describe.

So many children. That's a lot of psychic energy you're never going to share and honestly don't want to.

r5 Im sure it is possible to have a good relationship with someone who has 4 children, 2 of them 18 or over.Why do you say otherwise?

I think being around him would only hurt you. He'll live his life with the girlfriend of his while you desperately wait for a miracle to happen. You might miss out on a lot waiting for the wrong person; your time is worth more than that.

I don't get this assumption that bisexual men will always when it comes to the crunch pick women.I have seen examples in my own life to the contrary. Also this guy could be gay- He is from that era when lots of gay guys described themselves as bi because they feared coming out of the closet.

r7 It is difficult .Not being around him would hurt too now that this genie is out of the bottle after bumping into him. I cannot just switch my feelings off.It took me years previously to do that and even then that really didn't amount to switching them off but suppressing them and blanking them out. It is a very emotionally challenging situation and I think you for your thoughtful reply.

R6 has little experience with parents. The kids come first. Then the ex. You'll be third or fourth on his list. I can't imagine wanting to waste time on someone who uses others to experiment with his feelings.

r8 I meant to type I thank you for your thoughtful reply.

But on a wider point how does the gay community deal with bisexual men who return to men in middle age?

r10 I don't doubt the kids will come first but what I don't understand is why is that automatically a bad thing or a problem ? I also think you are being harsh calling him a user.He never wronged me as I tried to carefully explain I let him go without anger and drama because I knew he wanted a family. Painful for me but Ive never hated him for it.

OP, I know men like this. I like a lot of them. Let me see if I can help you here.

You have very little chance of your fraumance happening. He likes women more, he's a daddy and someday soon - he'll be a grandfather. His life is rooted in his children and family. Sure, there's a possibility he'd meet a man and have a relationship. But it would have to be a man his kids would like and accept. A guy who accepts his kids will always be the center of his life.

Maybe he'd like a little discreet side-action. You don't seem like you want that, but the fantasy? Skip that. Not going to happen. He's made his choice. You need to move on.

I think at best you'd only ever be a side piece, OP. If you can accept that, go for it.

R08 Maybe its in appropriately an *assumption* that they will *always* pick women, but statistically it is enough to have a *presumption* that they will *almost always* pick women. There are plenty of reasons for that, ones that blame the bisexual man and ones that blame a wider environment and society or even any male partners/attractions or potential ones.

OP, we're generations apart, but I have a similar situation, though in my case the guy and I might both qualify as young or younger adults instead of your longer path. We're both in/around our early 30s now, he's only dated women, I've only dated men and I'm gay, we're both currently partnered (him with a shorter relationship of a few years but heading faster towards marriage, me with a longer relationship of several years that's open and going slower towards only a maybe marriage), and he's also stuck on whatever that gets him children.

I've known him for over 7 years now. We met on my early attempt at college, he came out as bi early to me and I was smitten. My only crush that lasted years. Very built from natural labor, some quirky physical traits but all endearing was to me. But he was the 'alpha' (so to speak) of anything he participates in (roommates, friends, women, workplace) and I was more of the chill outlier; masculine acting but with fluid socializing and identity. I had made moves on him back then, including having him over 'for a movie' - I'm clueless enough that it was an almost totally genuine offer - where I killed him and he 'wasn't ready' yet, which I took as a soft rejection.

We kept up contact. At least once or twice a year, I'd have some invite for something he's doing. On one hand, signs showed that he was becoming more comfortable with implicit acknowledgement of his bisexuality with me and that I had a place in his life. On the other, well: After college I took a 1-2 year break from him and he knows it was because I still had burning attraction that I wasn't going to be able to act on. After that, I felt much more calm and had my 1-2/year times with him. I learned he was basically single during my break. When I returned, he started dating women again, and within a few years met a woman he stayed steady with and a couple years later got engaged to.

This leads to my next part. Very recently I was invited to his new home. There he ended up pumping himself (and me when possible, but I was sober enough) with beer and even leading me away into a nearby field. He laid it all into me: he was always attracted, I was always his type, and he always imagined having a relationship with me. Those stares across class? Counted. Those secret hand grazes and even slight holding out on fields with a group of others? Not just curiosity about men, but of me. The times he made excuses to spend more time with me after-hours? Probably a hope I'd initiate more with him. And even his showing off of his big new girlfriend-now-fiance? Quite possibly a way to get me jealous (this one is a stretch, but no longer a big one). Anything to get the responsibility and choice off of him, and onto me.

He was about to throw it all away and do something with me in that field, I knew it. And it would be all my 'fault'. Hell no. I stabilized the situation and we returned home. His fiance knew we left and I'm sure she is worried we did something. If he had his way, we would have (even as he'd refrain about his fiance, all his posturing and other actions said otherwise).

pt 2

One of the biggest reasons I didn't do anything was his cowardice. I can't expect someone to really love me if he can't even make clear he'll work to love himself - all of himself. He wants kids? Well here's his key to it. He wants a hot woman to show off and (well hopefully) enjoy? He'd got that now. The door he's had to me has been pretty wide open; he knows my relationship was open, okay to experiment, and wouldn't take a lot of effort to sweep me away with me even having good will with who would become my ex.

He chose *otherwise*. If this is what happens, remember that even in 'going to men' in middle-age, he's still likely to choose otherwise, its just that the choices were mostly already done. You were not second, or third, or maybe even fourth in his *actioned* priorities. Don't make him your first, even if you can make clear you'd like to.

Again in my case, I ended up being rather disturbed by that night and sent a long thoughtful message about it a week later. Its left enough to scare him that if he wants any sort of relationship with me, it better explore normal things like sober and reflective conversation on top of drunk and passionate. Message was read. We're still on social media. He's viewing my posts/'stories'. No response yet, and I am kind of ambivalent if I get any. Our roles are flipped - I thought I was the lost lovesick fool who got over it over time, but it turns out he's been potentially even obsessive but placed every block in the way of doing anything about it. There's a phrase for that: 'its his loss'.

If I was in your place OP, I'd go even further: 'its your win'. I wouldn't even bother. At least in my case, theoretically if all moved towards us being together (we won't, but lets play with that), we'd have our 30s to experience it, no children yet, the chance that he's actually been a closeted gay man who needs to face that (I won't assume, but its still possible from what I've learned), and something of a sustained relationship that just needed to blossom in the right ways to trigger something more. You got more of a situation of flat out sloppy seconds, if he even wants you. I do temper my judgement on this a little, given your generation, but still.

r13 Thank you for your reply .I would just add a few points. I certainly would be a guy who would accept his kids. I am very child orientated and have 15 nieces and nephews whom I am close too. My understanding is he had a boyfriend after he split from his wife for about 6 months and the children were fine with it. I am not sure what your basis is for feeling its not going to happen and that he likes women more? Firstly there are signs that he is turning more towards men in middle age and secondly it is suspected by many including people who know him very well, cousins etc that he not bi but gay. He comes from a tough working class family with a historical reputation in the local area for being tough and not to be messed with. That is the legacy of his "tough men" now elderly or dead uncles who were what we call in the UK hard knocks .That family reputation would have made it very hard back in the 1990s for him to fully come out of the closet if indeed he is guy.Many think he is and without trying to generalise he would set off most gay mens gaydar if you saw him. Looks wise he is a 10 out of 10 and without trying to disrespect anyone lots of people have wondered why the 2 women he had children with were very plain looking for such a stunning guy. Furthur adding to suspicions ,not proof I grant you, that he is gay or heavily guy leaning.

r17 Is me the OP I forgot to sign under name sorry!

(bi crush story guy here) I do have to add that if one has kids, yes those should come first. I wouldn't have so much issue with that, its fine and reflective of someone taking some responsibility.

But for everything else, like women or his ex or whatever, no you should be very much higher than all of them if a bi man wants to finally enter a relationship with you. Don't be a doormat. Make room for dependents if you think you can take it, but not his past romances (or beards, whatever).

OP, if you love and respect yourself do not bother with this bi mess, seriously. If you don't love or respect yourself, then go for it. We'll be waiting here when you realise how stupid you were for getting involved with this bi mess again. But honestly, good luck.

r15 OP Here. I feel like we are kindred spirits! The guy I am in love with also is very masculine and the alpha only difference is he was very sexual with men and romantic very quickly .I even know his first boyfriend who had passionate bust ups with and he was devasted when they split. I think his parents thought he would grow out of bisexuality and encouraged him "strongly" in the direction of women once they had heard information he was visiting the Liverpool gay scene and dating /kissing men etc

r20 I love him that's why it is very very difficult to switch it off as you say, I do object to people slurring his character.He never did wrong to me .

[quote]He never did wrong to me .

Yet.

(I wonder if his various female exs would have the same opinion)

r19 OP here .I agree. I have no problem with dependents or grown up children and I think the poster who stated that I would come below his exs is wrong. He has amicable relationships with his exs but he does not prioritise them over others.That is a misreading of his personality.

R8: If you are buying the whole "he came from the era where being bi was better etc etc", then please educate yourself. Bisexual men in 2019 do the EXACT same shit. This has nothing to do with an easier or better era, or a worse era etc, it's about the inherent messy reality that is connected to bisexuality. Why waste your time and life on a bisexual. It's ludicrous.

r23 " female exs. Don't we all have exs who would bad mouth us though so it is kind of a catch all point/I do not think there is bad blood with his exs. Both have new partners .

Fair enough R22. But like R23 said, it's only a matter of time when he'll hurt you.

r26 should say 2 female exs .Hardly a lot.

OP, you don't know for sure that this guy is willing to be with a man. Even if he is, would he want to be with you?

But here's the main question. Will a man who's been living the straight, all-American life, suddenly be willing to live with another man, publicly recognize him as his partner, introduce him to his kids. And, the kids might seem liberal on social media, but what would be their reaction if their dad is in a gay relationship? You've heard all the horror stories from straight women who've married men with kids. Do you think kids will be more willing to accept a stepdad?

To me, it sounds like this guy is either: a) straight, and he wanted to experiment with bisexuality in his youth to be rebellious (like the Keanu Reeves character in My Own Private Idaho); or b) gay and deep in the closet. Either way, you're better off staying away.

R21 Ha maybe we are.

My guy has definitely had sexual experiences with men, but so far all I know is that they're few and possibly coercive (possible example is something like a workplace superior long ago getting him to give hand or head). He may still not intuitively understand romance paired with men, so he assumes that instead with women. I still go with him being bi and not gay, though its enough of a mess with him that I leave it possible that anything with women is a cover for what he really wants but just doesn't understand, fears, and worries what others would think (that is, romance with men). What shocked me - literally, I couldn't respond properly for days - was that he may actually love me, and has loved me for years and years, but never known how to do that, leaving it in something like a shy high school crush level instead of his far more 'superior' workings with females.

I don't know what to do about this without him being able to be even more forthright with me, asking me advice, being open to experiences with me, or with others, or with a LGB+ community even platonically. He doesn't know the 'world' and it scares him. It flashes me back to a night with him where he expressed confusion about what to do with dates with another guy. I wish I was more wise on what to say and do with that.

This is a man who for half the time I knew him, maintained a version of a frat house with a few guys moving in and out of it, in his 20s. He works things like windows and landscaping. A gay life (as he literally termed it that recent night) would be alien, but now I wonder if its also highly hungered for, by him.

r16 Thank you for being so open and candid.I do genuinely think there is a reasonable chance he is actually gay not bi based on my knowledge of him. Maybe I am a fool but I have loved him for over 20 years .I let my life go on but meeting him again has reawakened something I buried .The era of social media does not help because now I can check how hes doing without him knowing and end up tormenting myself from afar by seeing him in a relationship.In previous years I have had the luxury of not knowing so telling myself he probably isn't.

R29 The outcome can be all over the place. I know of at least two situations where the husband came out, the wives either became platonic or stayed close friends, and in both cases the children stayed close to their father. The first was in a rural region and the second in city life (he even raises his daughter with his male partner).

Whatever the case, its usually that the closeted husband is acting in accordance to more paranoia than they should, at least in developed and/or more pro-gay countries.

If my bi friend came out when I first met him, he'd face more immaturity but probably self-mature better. Now he's in his 30s and if he came out, the friends and coworkers he's maintained would probably much more likely easily accept him, yet ironically he's something in baby-gay maturity level so good luck getting through those mental blocks. In either cases, the problems are more themselves than any partner/wife/ex-wife/fiance/children.

r29 He is definitely not straight and has had at least one male partner in his 30s after he split from wife .

r29 He is also british and from Liverpool - very different people and lives to the all American dream life! Liverpool people are very friendly but tough .Would not be easy for someone from previous era from a tough "hard knock reputation" Liverpool family to come out of the closet shall we say in the 1990s.

R31 I get it. I really do. On my shocking night, we were both drunk enough to "I love you"s and we both know that with each other, it has more weight than the typical drunk sayings with guys. And I can say it - there's so much incompatible between us but I deeply love him. We can't help it. I know I can't, and I know you can't.

We do have some difference though: I don't remotely fixate on his relationship beyond worry for her health through her partner pulling this bullshit, while he very well might have been looking at my social media muchhhhhh more than I ever expected. I went to a wedding of close friends tonight and posted a 'Story' including my partner's face there and one of the first who viewed it was my bi friend. I had immediate flashback to him recently drunkenly saying that if he chose me instead of his fiance, he'd go right to my partner and 'knock him out' (I assume the rest he was trying to say is that he'd do that to woo/take me). He said this twice that night. So I wonder what he was thinking looking at that Story, post-my-long-message and saying those things to me.

But does he love you? Obviously, it wasn't enough so many years ago. Why do you think it would be enough the second time around? Don't expect life to be like a Lifetime movie.

r36 He did in his own way yes.You have to understand I let him go, encouraged him to make the right decision regarding the future with kids he wanted.He did not just leave,I eased the pressure for him by almost urging him to make that decision.I did that because I loved him and because it was a way to ensure we did not split up in a nasty way.

MARY!!! Bisexuals are the most evilest vilest succubi known to mankind. Please stay away from them!

OP, darlin', you are negotiating in your head. That's not good, sugar. He already burned up the best years of your life, do not let him torch up the very last part, too. As you said, he is hard-knock Liverpool kind of guy. These sort of fellas are stubborn SOB, they don't change, honey. Would you want to go home and see him in bed with some slag, whom he bed just to feel like a man again?

r35 I guess we are both glutons for punishment .I guess if I cant have him I will just continue as I was dealing with that heartbreak and sadness without drama.But it is hard .I have never created trouble for him or his partners and that will continue.I will not lash out because I am hurting.

As a general point though I do take issue with the OTT cynicism on here about bisexual men genuinely turning to men in their later years.

r38 ?? Evil?

r39 Thank you for your reply.He hasn't burned up the best years of my life .He is not responsible for my reaction. He is not promiscuous he does actually tend to go for good girls.That is one thing I will say in his favour!

r14 You are right I am not sure that would suit but I will not totally rule it out.

r25 Love

[quote]r15 I had made moves on him back then, including having him over 'for a movie' -where I killed him and he 'wasn't ready' yet

Many balk in the face of death

R37 You let the life of your life go? For his own good? You *are* a Lifetime movie. Write the script...

R1 he isn't "returning to men". He's bisexual. He could choose men or women. In this case he's chosen another woman because he has a girlfriend. He would be cheating on her if he got with you so yes, you would be a mug.

I don't get why so many gay men try to invalidate bisexuals. He didn't get with a woman just to have kids. He is also sexually attracted to women.

r47 I didnt say JUST to have kids and I am not trying to invalidate his bisexuality . The romantic attraction he feels has always been much more towards men .This I know. He has suppressed that since he started a family but it seems to now be reasserting itself. Yes he is sexually attracted to both men and women but in terms of romantic attraction he is definitely biased more towards men.

I have not invalidated his bisexuality in stating that.

r47 I have stated I will not pursue him whilst he has a partner.

r46 I am British I am not familiar with the concept of lifetime movies? I let him go with ease because I could see it was heading in that direction and I wanted to ease his anguish. Yes he loved me but a desire to have a family was something emotionally he needed to pursue. Life is not black and white. There does not to be a villain or a fool in this situation. He was born to be a father. I couldn't give him that.

R48 how do you know he's more romantic with men?

R50 Maybe it was a different time back then, but nowadays, there's adopting or surrogate for same-sex couples so there is no reason a man in a same sex relationship can't be a father if he wants to (and if they can afford it of course). And if he feels like fucking women once in a while, you could even let him.

R50 I feel for you. This was what, at least 10 years ago (you said his youngest is 10) and you're still hurting. I wonder if the hurt is confusing the feelings you have for love because it's difficult to hold a torch for so long. Family, marriage, that many years will have undoubtedly changed him. He may seem the same but how could he really be? His full attention and loyalty will always be elsewhere if he's indeed a decent father. He will even have loyalty to the exes since they mother his children and the fact he's hands on means he has a decent enough relationship with the exes to enable him that access.

Sorry it just seems like you're going to expose yourself to more heartbreak.

Gays and lesbians who are out developed the courage to be out because they know who they are. Bi people can waffle and experiment and go back to their safe haven because it's easier. If you have the ability to accept the safe and easier route it's only human nature.

Bisexuals always pretend to be faithful. If your partner can't satisfy a strong urge, then you will seek fulfillment outside of the relationship. I don't think bisexuals can be in long term monogamous relationships.

r53 Why us him having an amicable relationship with his exs an issue??That in no way sets the stage for him priortising his exs over any current or future partner.His exs seem like a non point especially as they are happily remarried. His children should take proof course but even then the scope for clashes is not infinite especially when the kids become adults. Plenty of time manage it.You are basically making an argument for him not being able to have any future relationships whether they be male or female. That is nonsensical.

r56 priority not proof apologies!

r51 Because I know him very well and have done for over 20 years.its something he himself has acknowledged previously.

r55 That is a big caricature and generalization about bisexuals. Rather harsh.

OP, go for it, if it feels right. Ignore the ignorant anti-bisexual crap. Just be honest with this guy, tell him how you feel and talk things through.

R55 is an idiot - bisexuals are always unfaithful but if you want to be unfaithful then that's ok!

Sounds like you’re deluding yourself. Why would so many people take an interest in your dumb relationship?

OP, my view is if you think you could be love each other and chemistry is there, pursue him and make him yours. I’ve known lots of situations whereby formally married men with kids have gone on to openly settle down with a man in an out gay relationship.

There is only one aspect to this that concerns me. You describe him as a certain type of man and the fact he is alpha and fathered children with different women means he isn’t just going through the motions.

I’d tell you to steer clear of this guy if you think he’d settle down with you then be chatting up women and having sex with them behind your back. That said, generally women are completely turned off pursuing a man they believe is gay. Yes you get some who see it as a challenge, but if he’s in an out gay relationship I doubt he’ll be getting much action from women. That’s a key reason why most identifying bisexual men remain closeted.

r51 Answer that question yourself you have chosen to show an interest by posting on this thread.

Thanks for your reply r62 I wouldnt be surprised if any woman he is with has heard or know hes bisexual. He was pretty open about it and his name etc when he was on the gay scene. I think quite a lot of people know as it wasnt exactly kept super secret during the 1999s and Liverpool is one of those cities were everyone's knows or is connected to everyone's else. Liverpool people are also quite chatty shall we say!It was like an open secret in the 1980s. He was from a big family that was well known enough across the city.

Men will search for any available hole. If the girlies turn away as he heads toward Grizzled Grampaw, he'll seek out the gays looking for daddy.

R65: Bisexual men will take any hole.

r55 Too cynical one dimensional and untrue! You shouldn't generalised like that. The guy km talking about has strong romantic inclinations towards men.

I meant r65

Maybe I'm sheltered, but the only guys I've ever met who've come out as bi and had actual relationships with men and then went back to dating women (two of them to be exact) were both traveling in a very artsy/boho/SJWish circle. One was also very loaded (family money) which probably helped.

But I would think it would be very difficult outside of that world for a guy to find women to date after being in a relationship with a man as most straight women (even younger liberal ones) have a hard time accepting that a man can be bi and fall into the "suck one cock and you are gay forever" camp.

He sounds like a catch!

[quote]most straight women (even younger liberal ones) have a hard time accepting that a man can be bi and fall into the "suck one cock and you are gay forever" camp.

They can accept that a man is bi. They just don't want to fuck a man who fucks other men.

Yes R71, that's what I meant--that they can deal with it in theory, but if he's previously been in a relationship with a guy, they don't believe he's also interested in them or that he won't leave them for a guy soon enough.

True, R72 - but I was specifically referencing their distaste/disgust at fucking a man who also has sex with men. Their insecurity is a big factor, as you point out, but that's not all there is to it.

I suppose they realize there's don't need to date bisexual men when they could just find a straight man.

r71 Clearly that doesn't apply to all women.

True, I should have qualified it, but it's still an issue with some.

"But on a wider point how does the gay community deal with bisexual men who return to men in middle age?"

We tell them to fuck off! Lol It's not our job nor responsibility to take care of these bisexual messes when they come crawling back to us after their failed straight marriages and dozens of children scattered everywhere. Bi's need to get it through their thick skulls gay men are not your fucking-toys, as if we're just going to sit around here waiting for your pathetic ass to return to us?? Lol Fuck off with that shit! We actually have our own lives to live.

If only that were remotely true R77

But the fact remains that the easiest way to get attention on any gay dating app is to have "bi" in your profile, even if your last hetero experience was playing spin the bottle in 7th grade.

You need to let go of your dreams for this specific guy.

Start dating his son.

'Whilst'? Really!?

"They just don't want to fuck a man who fucks other men."

If they knew what their men really do in secret, then there'd be no more relationships (a natural birth control solution?).

But they just lobbied to get rid of Craigslist Personals and thought they'd solved problem.

[quote]r81 they just lobbied to get rid of Craigslist Personals and thought they'd solved problem.

Can we do a class action lawsuit about this?

There have been DAMAGES and HARDSHIPS!

r77 in this situation he hasn't used me like a toy.He had never wronged me.He is a decent bloke as am I in a difficult situation. No bad guys neccesarry.

Why did they lobby to get rid of craigslist personal?!😮🤔 r81

I am an old, out bi-leaning lesbian and my brother is bi-sexual and married to a woman.

When I was younger, drunk and away from home, I'd occasionally have sex with a male stranger. Brother told me he admired the fact that I had the courage to admit having no-strings sex with guys occasionally, even though all my relationships had been with women.

One time my sister casually remarked to our brother about his suspected bi-sexuality and he vehemently denied it. His wife was sitting beside him.

His wife said she'd heard that accusation before, and glaring at my brother said that if she ever found out that was true, she'd dump my brother, but of course, she said it couldn't be true.

Poor brother. He presents as gay, gay, gay and thinks he's hiding something from the world.

[quote]He presents as gay, gay, gay and thinks he's hiding something from the world.

That's "DL bisexual".

OP, if the man has seven young kids and two ex-wives... what he probably wants from you is a free place to live and a cash allowance so he has some spending money.

r87 He does not have 7 kids! He has 4 kids and one ex wife .His first child was not from a relationship that resulted in marriage.

Also r87 His kids are not all young. The eldest are 22 and 18.

Oh, college age. College age kids never expect Dad to give them money [eye roll].

r85 Do you think your brother will ever break out of the closet?

I think it’s very common for bisexual males to go back to men as they age because all the straight women told the other straight women about them so they have no choice but to come out. Seriously though, they get tired of being phonies.

Having straight privilege is unsatisfying in the long run because it’s fake it’s not really them.

It is very common. And they talk about being brave being their authentic self no bitch you were a coward in the closet and got outed.

I am that guy. Gay encounters in early adulthood (lots) but for some reason, no emotional attachment, like I feel with women. I don't know why. All my LTR, fall-in-love connections have been with women. I was divorced after 11 years, 2 now grown daughters. Hung out at a particular Gay bar for years after the divorce, minimum encounters this time around. Say 5 in 8 years?? I now have a gay partner. He too was once the married man, twice. We have a comfortable, backgammon competitive relationship.

Bottom line: if you want to explore, there is absolutely nothing wrong with finding out. Every relationship is potential for baggage and tribulations, lol. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Block R93. He's another fucked up bisexual loser. He signs his post as: "KeepItReal", but there is nothing "real" about him. He's just another duplicitousnes bisexual fucktard.

It's funny, I was in love/involved with women in my early 20's. Relationships with men since then. Now, in my 60s, I've fantasized about returning to women.

Oh Lord! The retardation continues at R95. No grandpa, there is nothing "funny" about you fantasising about women in your fucking 60's, bloody hell! It's just outright pathetic. Holy shit it's beyond sad how many men have identity issues. Welcome back to the dark ages!

OP, my brother is too cowardly to live openly as a gay man. He received international attention a few years back and went on Good America and some other talk shows after rescuing his dog from a shark. The videos of his tv appearances were on YouTube and many people laughed at him and derided him as gay. I hoped then that he'd be empowered to come out, but no. He doesn't "pester" (his word) his wife for sex, he says, out of consideration for her. I often wonder how the wife feels. He's 64 now, and first confided his sexuality to me when he was 19. I knew long before that his true preference was for men and that he'd been in love forever with his best friend. I hope your guy gets the courage to follow his heart. Best wishes to you.

R96 Perhaps a point well taken. For many centuries orientation has been defined and expressed differently from now. The Dark Ages fit into those millenia, so yeah, sure. I suppose the "laboratory of consciousness" in each individual is where some of this can be examined. I do think (although also dated) the Kinsey scale is an interesting chunk of language to use to discuss gender/affectional orientation. I suspect that, if there is a scale, which places men on a continuum, everyone may float up and down. Culture, personal experience, what's been reinforced and what's been presented as taboo, all determine what you think you love. I do think there are "gay men" who fall in love with women. I also think that doesn't fit well with 2019.

Thank you so much r97 for your kind and thoughtful post X

You used the word Whilst in a sentence. Kill it with fire!

So dramatic mate!! Stay calm and cool r100 😁👍

I have met a number of men like this--married when younger, have kids, but are now in their 50's or so. They haven't had sex with their wives in years and are going gay with a bang

r97, I hope this doesn't freak you out.

But, I googled " rescuing his dog from a shark" and found plenty of videos with your brother.

I actually think I slept with him once.

The bathhouses are filled with these kinds of men. Their kids are all grown up and now they want to have some fun

I know three very well from the bathhouse I got to. They are absolutely obsessed with sex and are great at it.

Do these bisexual men (are they even bisexual or did they just marry women to maintain societal acceptance?) actually remain celibate towards men throughout their marriages to women?

R97/cupcake, one of your nieces or nephews was all over your brother's youtube comments insisting vehemently that he is straight. I hope no one from here points the kid to this website, or you may have accidentally outed your brother.

I had long-term relationships with two women when I was younger but am certainly not bi. I'm gay and have always been, I was just too afraid to come out, fearing that I could never have a relationship with a guy. It was only after I met a number of happy gay couples did I get the courage to come out.'

I had sex with my girlfriends all the time because, when one's in his 20's, men can fuck anything.

R97, your brother was so cute in those videos!

R108: You are bisexual, not gay. Stop your lying. Your type of story gets told on here by like a million guys, a million times over. Both on the internet and in real life. Over and over again. It's always the same LYING bullshit. There are those of us who have been out as young teenagers, and as a teenager you seriously know about your sexual orientation. Even before teenage years a lot of us know we are gay, but because in teenage years we hit puberty, well it just confirms everything more about what we are. You scumbag men using the same line that when a guy is in his 20's he can fuck anything, is utter fucking bullshit and you all know it. The desire and attraction to women is not there for gay men no matter how fucking young or extremely horny you are. Your dick and body as a man gets aroused and excited by what you are into and what you like. It's simple as hell! If you were sexual with your long-term girlfriends, YOU ARE BISEXUAL. NOT GAY. And you can keep deluding yourself you bisexual scum by trying to convince yourself and others that you are gay, but you were fucking women for years and clearly enjoyed it. So you aren't fooling anyone, except very unintelligent people. You are the type of scumbag like many on here, who end up once again down the track, confessing your urges for going back to females after living as "gay" for a while. There is something seriously fucked up about all of you like this. You are the exact reason why even in 2019, we have gay conversion therapy still continuing, and we have all this "sexual fluidity" ideology propaganda. You only have to read about and look at the lives of men like you, and no wonder this shit still continues and no wonder the world and relationships are so fucked up. It's because men like you unfortunately exist on the planet, and there are so many of you that confuse and ruin everything for those of who are authentically homosexual and stable, by spreading this fuckery into society and into mainstream psychology. You are to be hated and avoided like the plague by all authentic gay men. And you don't deserve happiness or a good authentic gay man, because all of you bisexual men are nothing but scum and sociopathic. As time goes on, it's becoming more clear and evident that bisexuals and trans fucktards are the scourge of everything, and you are everywhere on gay websites and in gay spaces. Why won't you lot seriously just fuck off and create your own websites and spaces! Blocked you bisexual scum!

R110: Seek help.

R111: Other way around fucktard. You are another scumbag who can't handle or tell the truth. Blocked.

R110/112 is the new Anti-Judy "Pills" Garland troll.

R97 Your brother-in-law is so gay you can see him flaming from out of space. He’s gayer than a hot pink sequin Easter bonnet. When he talks rainbow glitter purses fall from his mouth. He is permanently smelling sugar cookies.

Actually he’s kind of cute and obviously he and his wife are in a lavender marriage I mean, MARY!

[quote]r106 Do these bisexual men (are they even bisexual or did they just marry women to maintain societal acceptance?) actually remain celibate towards men throughout their marriages to women?

Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

r108 During your marriage did you harbour romantic yearnings for men?

he is bi, a sexual opportunist... you are codependent, so you are naturally attracted to manipulators. they know it.

you will always lose in a relationship with a bi guy, because they view relationships as a narcissistic mind game. whatever posters say here, you seem to stick to what you want to hear, and only that. the amazing number of pages of your catalogue of justifications amounts to your deep fear of being alone. as if you would wear rose-colored glasses for the first guy would give you any kind of attention.

he already showed you who he is... and you know that you should not even be his friend... otherwise you would not be asking us about it... otherwise you would not be worried about getting with him.

you know he is dangerous, accept what your intuition is telling you (it's even yelling!!!), it's really the only friend you have in life. and this thread shows that your intuition tells you to stay away from this guy.

it's quite simple : he is bi, let him find a bi guy, so they destroy each other without hurting us. never rely on a bisexual guy, whatever your weakness!

Thanks, guys, for confirming my suspicions. Love you all.

[quote]r117 he is bi, a sexual opportunist...

Yes. Worse than Hitler. Obviously.

R117 nailed it!!!! Finally another intelligent poster!

OP is brainwashed, hypnotised, and desperately lonely. This is why a lot of gay people gravitate towards bisexuals because bisexuals use their sociopathy which acts as a magnet for desperate gay people with low self-esteem and low awareness. Especially awareness of the sociopathic machinations of bisexual opportunists.

OP, you can't love yourself and a bi guy... chose wisely

choose wisely...

On the contrary r120 I think r117 far from nailing it offers a simplistic angry caricature. Speaking as if my bi ex is an awful person who has done something wickedly wrong to me.Sorry but he simply hasn't.

BE BEST!

Naturally! r124

r121 I disagree. Why on earth cant you love both?

I thank god for such men OP because they are the men who will stoop to fuck around with me in my late 50s. They are all nasty pigs in bed.

OP, I don't exactly understand what it is exactly that you want to get from this thread. Are you looking for reassurance of some sort? Do you want people to tell you what you want to hear? Or else, is this just some outlet to allow you to express your frustration at a situation over which you feel that you don't have any control whatsoever?

The truth is that you have already made your mind up regarding this man: he is wonderful and he was powerless to do as he "wished" given the enormity of what he would have gone against if he had decided to be "gay". Well, the truth is that he didn't decide to be gay because he is bisexual, and whether he was pressurized into it or not, he happily moved on from being supposedly in love with men and you, to doing the same with women. The fact that he has temporarily jumped between both genders is irrelevant, and you are exposing yourself to considerable problems by trying to enter a relationship with him. If his family and environment were not willing to accept the possibility of him being with a man (and it looks like he wasn't, either), what makes you think that their views have changed? Have they gone from tough underclass quasi-mavericks to educated liberal professionals in 20 years? To be honest, I doubt it.

Also, if this person is so wonderful and your relationship was so significant for the both of you, why hasn't he ever tried to maintain some measure of closeness, even though you've spent all these years pining for him and you're supposed to be one of his great loves? Maybe you're just deluding yourself into thinking that he is better than he actually is, and your "relationship" was more important than it actually was, because you never got to experience a normal, organic dissolution of things.

So, here's my take on it all: either decide to take the risk of professing your undying love for this person, who in all likelihood remembers you as one of his many youthful dalliances and nothing more, and expose yourself to the disappointment of seeing that a) he is not a gay martyr pushed into heterosexual relationships by his horrible family and b) he is perfectly comfortable with things as they are and have always been, and you don't really have a place in his life, or...

Go to therapy to get over this youthful infatuation that will never lead you anywhere, and accept the fact that you didn't do him any favours because he didn't really love you and he'd have ended up married to one, or several women, anyway (as has indeed happened). This is probably the tougher decision, but also the healthiest and most mature one. Still, I don't think that you want to do either thing, because constantly reliving the fantasy of how great you could be together is much easier than accepting the stark, ugly and not-so-flattering reality.

Anyway, this person sounds like a lot of hard work for very little payoff, and in my opinion you are deluding yourself into thinking that this potential payoff is valuable enough to waste time and emotional investment in fantasizing about it.

[quote] I had sex with my girlfriends all the time because, when one's in his 20's, men can fuck anything.

Nope, completely gay men can't. I've known many who were disgusted even by the thought of being physically close to a woman. You're probably Kinsey 4 or 5 and there's nothing wrong with that. Ignore the lunatic bi-haters.

r128 It was not just a youthful infatuation and I do not see myself as being wronged by him or his back/family. He desperately wanted kids of his own and I knew I couldn't give him that and more so it would cause prdown the line and hurt to him.Instead of viewing me as someone who made a difficult but mature difficult decision and someone who approaches and handled a sensitive issue with emotional intelligence and care for the other person you instead seem eager to interpret me as being an emotional cripple with no understanding of my own predicament. I suggest that says more about you than it does me.

r130 I typed q.I meant problems down the line and I don't blame his background /circumstances or family.

r128 Also your caricaturing. I have never said he was helpless about his decisions.

OP, if you are dismissing the breakup and his life as a heterosexual as "...he just wanted children and I couldn't produce them", you are looking at the past with rose-colored glasses, and probably the present well.

Of course life isn't much fun if we don't put on our rose-colored glasses now and then, but when we do... other people are still perfectly free to point out that we're being idiots.

Again, I don't understand what is your intention with this thread. Maybe I have misinterpreted everything and all you want is to read people's opinions, but the belligerent nature of your responses makes me think that you want people to tell you what you want to hear.

If your friends are telling you that it would be less than ideal for you to go running to a man who has built a life in which there isn't a place for you, has a girlfriend and doesn't seem to be interested in you (not to mention that you have misgivings about the nature of a potential relationship with him), things don't look well at all form the onset. Also, the fact that he might be "rediscovering" his attraction to men doesn't mean anything: if he hasn't contacted you or wanted to have anything to do with you in all these years, chances are that you were never that important to him. Sorry, but the fact that you are pining for him after 20 years of indifference does look like an unresolved youthful infatuation. Maybe I am harsh, but this is how things look like from the outside.

Moreover, why would you want to have anything to do with a man who used the excuse of "I want children of my own" to basically manipulate you into breaking up with him, when there are ways in which he could have had the children he craved while being with you? Have you never heard about wombs for hire? There were already plenty of them in the 90's. This person simply wanted to have fun while he was young, to then settle with a woman and have a family - and he still is with a woman - the fact that he had relationships with men in the past is irrelevant. He has chosen women and when he was with men in between wives/girlfriends, it wasn't you. What you felt for him is clearly not what he felt for you. Don't sell yourself short and look for someone who actually loves and respects you, as opposed to a man who had to "acknowledge" you when you met after God knows how many years and only pays attention to men for brief periods while looking for serious relationships with women.

Also, this is turning into an echo chamber - which I suspect is what you want. The only downside is that we're not telling you exactly what you want to hear. So, instead of chastising people like me for being insensitive individuals who don't understand him or you, go to him and tell him how you feel... Which will result in either him using you for sex or rejecting you outright. It's sad and painful and please, believe me when I say that I don't want to hurt or upset you, but you're not a priority to him and many people have already mentioned this (including your own friends). In the unlikely event that he wanted to have a relationship with you, you would have to put in much more than he does because you're the one who is invested in this... Going by what you've said, he barely remembers you or pretends to barely remember you. That doesn't bode too well.

Anyway, good luck with with person, if you ever manage to get things out of the fantasy phase.