Front businesses

Probably not.

There is one in the building next door to mine. 20 years. its impossible to understand what it is, retail vaguebooking. Sometimes it seemed like a travel agent. Then I was convinced it was supposed to be a beauty parlour. Maybe a CPA. It's never open. 20 years.

OP. In nyc, the psychic places (especially in the village) are used as housing by the psychic and her family. They are generally zoned commercial use only but they skirt that somehow.

Also, the best burger place in NYC, Corner Bistro, which has been around forever was interesting in the 90s. I would go there in the daytime sometimes during the weekday. Empty. But they had a black phone on the wall with no buttons on it. Incoming only I guess. It would ring about ever ten min. The bartender would write a series of numbers (not phone numbers). I would watch intently. I never knew what "running numbers" meant. But I think they did it there.

Could be. I moved to a suburb of Columbus, OH once and there was a Chinese restaurant within walking distance. One day I went there to get lunch. The place was completely empty. Finally someone came out. They looked shocked to see me. I placed a takeout order and waited. About forty minutes later, they came out with a bag and handed it to me. I went home and opened the bag. The food I ordered was in there along with a takeout menu from a Chinese restaurant about two miles away. I heard much later that there was a gambling operation on the second floor.

Restaurants and bars are often used as fronts because they involve a lot of cash transactions both from customers and on the wholesale side. I don't think high-volume cash transactions are very plausible in a psychic parlor.

A menswear store in my home town that no one ever goes into. It been open for at least 40 years and rumor has it that's it's a front for drug smuggling.

R5. You're right. In some cities, commercial rates are actually lower than residential rates. That was true in nyc for a time. That's why I think it's more for cheap rental rates in op case

Also in Chinatown in NYC, all of those chop shops with no name that fix your iPhone/iPad etc on the spot and charge like only $20 are def fronts.

Probably those places in Chinatown are involved in moving stolen phones and reselling IMEI numbers.

There was a place in Brooklyn like 10 years ago -- empty storefront -- where next door was a Chinese restaurant much like described above. Never really open. No menu etc. Anyway, the empty store front was actually counterfeiting bills. They would then "run sales" through the fake Chinese restaurant to launder the money. Feds said the counterfeit was of tiptop quality. I always wonder how people learn to counterfeit dollars so perfectly.

Good point r9

Don't even get me started on the Korean "restaurants" and "dance clubs" in my city. Blinds cover the windows 24/7 and no one, but no one, ever uses the front doors. Police and aldermen do NOTHING.

Even with Uber and lyft, there still exist those crappy black town car services in NYC. Home base always in queens. Russian drivers who are the most surly nasty drivers ever. They are classic fronts for money laundering because it's tough to prove that a service (a cab ride) was not delivered.

There was a psychic in my city for several years. I went to see her on a whim but never went back because it was so much bullshit.

She was raided because she was running hookers and would use the readings as a front to send men to her ladies.

Which explains why she said I had negative energy and she couldn't help me but knew of another woman who would, and then asked for a $100 referral fee after showing me the other woman's picture.

I rarely tell this story because it always makes me look like a moron. A big gay moron.

Tell me more about your front business!

There's a psychic place across from my loft in DTLA and we're convinced they are running a drug/hooker operation. There are some HOT guys that come in and out of there.

They're all Gypsies living in there running all the classic Roma scams, and low-level organized crime shenanigans.

Hell, the pink stucco building on the NW corner of 30th Street and 8th Ave was a Korean whorehouse for about forty years, and only in the last ten years or so seems to be a legitimate hotel now.

There was a little restaurant near my apartment that nobody ever went to (always empty when I walked past). One day I was walking home, tired and hungry, and thought what the hell. I went in there to try to order some food and there was a guy sitting at a table (not eating). He looked up at me with an expression of, "You gotta be kidding." I left and never went back. My conclusion: organized crime front.

There was a club near my house that was trafficking Vietnamese women. The local police were in on in. It was called “The Tiki Tiki Massage Parlor.” A lot of the nail salons are fronts, too. There are so many of them.

There was a taco shop across the street from my former workplace that was busted for drug dealing years ago.

[quote] Hell, the pink stucco building on the NW corner of 30th Street and 8th Ave was a Korean whorehouse for about forty years, and only in the last ten years or so seems to be a legitimate hotel now.

I heard about this. Some Japanese guys I used to know told me they went to brothels around there-- the guys were approached on the street by touts (who presumably spoke Japanese since these guys didn't speak English), just like it's done in Japan and Korea.

[quote]there still exist those crappy black town car services in NYC.

Many years ago (before cell phones were common) a friend recommended we use one of those hire car services instead of taking a cab, to to get to JFK. She lived on the same block as their business, downtown between B & C (when that area was still dangerous), and she used them all the time (cabs didn't like to pick up there). My friends were in a midtown hotel and were getting increasingly nervous as the clock ticked and their flight departure loomed. Repeated calls to the company's office were met with the same reassuring message, "The driver's almost there, he's just stuck in traffic."

Finally, after an hour of this, my friends took a cab off the street and, miraculously, made it to their flight (NYC cabbies can beat the terrible traffic in Queens if they know all the tricks - though of course the cab fare is less when they do). That car service never arrived and we later found out it was actually a drug courier business, delivering all over Manhattan. My friend who recommended them had no idea because they seemed like a normal car service to her: they always looked after her because she lived on the same block as their business and they wanted to keep the neighbours happy.

They must have being laughing uproariously about the trouble they were causing the anxious tourists who were relying on them for a ride to the airport that day. "Just wait - he's almost there."

I’m assuming many of the storefronts on Santa Monica just east of Fairfax in LA are fronts of some sort. There’s a DJ lighting/equipment store I’ve never seen anyone go into and some storefront that never looks open that stocks plastic flowers and cheap crystal-glass sculptures.

There's a "physic" on Bedford between Downing and Carmine. I lived around the corner for 30 years and never saw a single customer in there. It had to be a front for something but my curiosity wasn't as strong as my fear for my life.

[quote]There's a psychic place across from my loft in DTLA and we're convinced they are running a drug/hooker operation. There are some HOT guys that come in and out of there.

You need to stand in front and underbid them!

I thought this thread was going to be about tranny anatomy.

Ground floor of my building (Chicago Loop) has a hair extension salon with zero business - it’s been there for years - NOBODY ever goes in.

At least they are quiet.

R23 I was a regular of that DJ lighting store.

R12, Dallas?

Dallas doesn't have aldermen. Chicago maybe?

My psychic friends are getting a bad reading, here on Datalounge.

Cue music:

If you see these psychic shops around, with not a butt, in any seat, Walk On By.

A business in my city (105k) sells nothing but men's hats. It's been there at least 10 years. I'm convinced its a front for something else.

I scratched my car while parking and remembered there was a body shop near a bakery I go to.

I went in the front door and the body shop was about the size of a stamp.

I thought for a minute where they could be doing work in such a small space and then asked the guy behind the counter about looking at my car. While I was there his phone never stopped ringing and when he got off the phone he'd immediately send a text.

He looked at me for a long time, long enough for the stink of pot to hit me. He said, "Sorry bro, too busy."

I realized the body shop was a front for dealing.

There was a bubble tea shop near me that never seemed to be open. I wanted bubble tea more than once but they were always closed.

I love this thread. More please. Oh yeah there was a Mexican restaurant here that sold legit food out front and blow jobs behind the kitchen. The burb police weren't having it and shut them down.

Years ago, there were many articles about Robert Miller's Duty Free Shops (father of Marie Chantal Miller, now Princess, and the other two married to a Getty, and a Von Furstenburg). Shady stuff about laundering hundreds of millions globally.

Also, if interested, watch The Panama Papers on Hulu. Great documentary on global mechanics/players of laundering / offshoring.

I used to live near a flea market. I was a regular there. This one stand inside was always closed. I remembered the vendor, an older woman. At one time she was there, but then she stopped showing up. Her stuff was still in there. It was closed for years , with stuff inside covered in thick layers of dust. Then one day she opens up, cleans up and starts showing up regularly. One day I saw her go to her car. It was a brand-new, top of the line Lexus! I suspect the flea market stand was a way for her to launder money.

There are pop & mom shops on Ventura Blvd in Sherman Oaks and Studio City that I pass by and wonder, "how the hell do they stay in business?" Shops like vacuum repair stores and sewing machine repair stores. I never see any customers, and I don't think there's too much of a demand for their services. So I'm guessing they're fronts for other activities.

Gypsies

There was a boot store in town that was so obviously a front for something that even the most innocent granny could tell. They upgraded from a small strip mall store to taking over an entire former Village Inn building that ostensibly should have held thousands of paira of boots. Never saw a single car parked there.

Then the building burned down about six months ago and again, no one asked why, because we all knew.

My town has a pool cue repair shop, a little hole in the wall with about 100 dusty pool cues hanging on the walls and an old guy sitting at a counter all day. Apparently he will actually put a new tip on your pool cue if you stop by, but it's really a front for the bookie who has his phone room and office upstairs. The old guy's real function is to collect the money and pay the winners.

[quote]Gypsies

Hey! Don't forget us!

What sort of seedy neighborhood do you live in?

[quote]There was a club near my house that was trafficking Vietnamese women. The local police were in on in. It was called “The Tiki Tiki Massage Parlor.” A lot of the nail salons are fronts, too. There are so many of them.

I've always wondered about those Chinese massage/reflexology places you see at in shopping and strip malls. They are always completely empty (of customers).

Tangentially related, but I'm very curious about The Palace Inn chain of motels in Houston. It's obviously a place people use for hookups. Is there coordinated prostitution going on at those places? You never hear about it, although human trafficking busts are often in the news in Houston.

I love this thread.Fun reading. I've always been fascinated by these types of small businesses./"fronts" and everyone of us just passes them by on the street and it's like nobody bothers to care. I typically think every asian massage place is shady.

R23, I used to live in West Hollywood, right off that area, and worked for the city. Wish I had more insight, but the rumors were that several of those outdated/odd looking storefronts on Santa Monica were a "front for the Russian mafia" - I always remember one that sold what looked like old/used medical equipment, wheelchairs, and other completely bizarre items!

There must be SO many of these around Los Angeles. Once, I decided to answer one of those Craigslist ads for "bartending school" when I was looking for side gigs in LA. I knew it must be fake, but was curious. I walked in and it was all basically fake. Fake woman taking info, fake guy running it and fake bartender offering "school". It actually felt like a porn set. I suppose they were just there to take people's money and it could be as simple as that.

[R46] Some of the window displays are so odd for these businesses—they look like Joseph Cornell art installations with the random weird things. There’s a storefront down near my mothers house in rural Virginia with nothing in the display area but a taxidermied raccoon and a rolling pin.

In RI where I grew up if you went to Providence to Federal hill, there were Italian restaurants and markets. And one pinball machine shop. The Patriarca crime family headquarters was there

Great visual R47. Very strange indeed. I want to know more about how these places stay open.

R47. You nailed it. So true

In the west village, there was a medical supply store. But not a new one. Like 1950s old. Dust in the window display. Like dustballs. Dead roaches in window display. Never opened except like once a week. We went in once. Old crutches and stuff. Freaky

My grandmother read tea leaves in Brooklyn.

Love your post R47. This thread is my fave in months.

It's ancient history now, but back in the days of the Bell Telephone System getting a business telephone, especially if you needed multiple lines ( like for your bookie operation) was an involved process that required all sorts of verifications, and if you got caught using the phones for illegal purposes it was Federal. A lot of front businesses existed primarily to get the telephone lines, and any money laundering was secondary.

r46, there's a liquor store a few doors down from The Pleasure Chest that has the scariest guys working in it. It's right next to a laundromat and not far from where I live so I stop in once in awhile but the cashiers always look at me like I'm a narc. Or maybe they're homophobic. It may be a legit liquor store but I could totally believe the workers are Russian mafia and would have no qualms about making me disappear forever.

OP this is the best thread since the one about lot lizards! The underbelly of America is so fascinating.

I do think the nail salons/massage places are often for prostitution. Every month or so one gets busted for it. Once I got a groupon for a massage and the masseuse was trying to go for a happy ending. I really just wanted the massage for my bad back. I made it clear from my body language to stop. I thought it was kind of funny, not really upsetting. But eye opening, so to speak.

Sometimes it's someone as innocent as zoning. I dimly remember a couple of Gay guys who found a wonderful building that wasn't zoned for residential use, but there was some old law on the books where the business owner could live upstairs above his business. They put about 6 pieces of furniture on the main floor, put a sign in the window that said "Antiques," and lived upstairs for years.

The one I pass every day is so teeny tiny. The whole shop floor must be about 5 square metres. I mean it's smaller than my bedroom. And this place is in the centre of town. All that fits inside of it is:

- a countertop with a brand new mac computer on it.

- a small magazine stand in the corner that has about 6 art coffee table books (that cost about $100 dollars each)

- and cactuses. Cactii. Lots and lots of small succulents and cactuses that sell for about $15 each, spread out across two tables and one shelf against the wall.

I don't know if it's for drugs, laundering, or something else, or perhaps the business is mostly online. But there's no way they can pay their rent selling maybe two cactuses a week, or one art book in a year.

The guys who own or owned the Eagle bar in Boston also own the candy store next door. It’s usually closed. It sells the kind of candy that’s obsolete, now, like hard candy in butterscotch and peppermint. It’s the kind of place that might have a dungeon. I only now figured it’s to launder cash from the bar. Probably to split the cash between two businesses.

[quote] I do think the nail salons/massage places are often for prostitution. Every month or so one gets busted for it. Once I got a groupon for a massage and the masseuse was trying to go for a happy ending. I really just wanted the massage for my bad back.

A similar thing happened to me. I'm in a tiny town in Georgia and it was 8 pm and my back hurt so bad. I saw a sign for a massage parlour (the Lucky Seven Massage Parlour). I stopped and called their number and asked if they were open. The lady said they were open. It was either there or the emergency room. I was the only person there and she gave me a really good massage, but she made me lay on my stomach and she got on my back and straddled me while massaging me. It's been a year and I just read in the newspaper that they got busted for being a prostitution place.

We also have a weird "Palm Reader". She's in a house right off the interstate. Her sign is on day and night. I've never seen a car there in over ten years

r57 has a good observation there. That might explain some of these small shops that are only open one day a week or by appointment, and have almost no merchandise.

I went into one "antique shop" a long time ago. Crammed with, ahem, antiques. The woman there acted like I was a problem to be there. Maybe I was. A man comes in, she says to him, "If you want it, it's in back." The guy had an ear to ear grin on his face as he went in back. She GLARED at me. I left!

I'm sorry but I don't know what it means. They use dirty money to invest in a business. But when will they get the money back? What if the business doesn't make a profit?

I dont know if this is a front or not, but this bitch has been here more than 30 years! Talk about location, last house just before you get onto a major freeway in Los Angeles.

That’s a great photo, R63. A real desolate feeling.

It's amazing how much money these fraud psychics rake in. I think a lot of their business comes over the phone. People call in, and like the fools they are, give them their credit card number and get a reading.

Atlanta's most famous psychic was Madam Bell (she also had 2 or 3 aliases). Her business was on Cheshire Bridge Rd. near the intersection at Piedmont for decades. That is until the late 90s when her body was found floating face down in a reflecting pool at the Ritz Carlton Hotel in Buckhead. Poor thing couldn't even foretell her own accidental drowning.

[quote]Sometimes it's someone as innocent as zoning. I dimly remember a couple of Gay guys who found a wonderful building

Oh, DEAR!!

psychics are con men/women. They will tell clients that evil spirits are following them or the spirits of aborted babies following them etc but they can get rid of said spirits for 5 or 6 figure sums...depending on how rich or poor the clients are. That's what I've read when they are charged by police.

Maybe that's how they stay in business.

A lot of these places probably are fronts, but you also never know the situation. My ex had an uncle who owned a travel agency that was never opened, but they owned the building and he made enough in renting out the upstairs apartments to care. He also had these delusional ideas about his son (who had a chaotic drug fueled life) taking it over someday or something.

I'm pretty sure this was a legitimate business, but it was never busy, and usually closed when I walked by. It is the type of shop that is being wiped out in most cities. I loved the name, it always reminded me of The Mask of Dimitrios movie. I'm sure if I ever went in I would meet John Abbott hamming a Greek accent. The windows were filled with all kinds of dusty trinkets, clocks, beads and jewelry. It closed this year.

R69. Is that in philadelphia by any chance!!?? I think I know that one!

11th St Philly

[quote] They will tell clients that evil spirits are following them or the spirits of aborted babies following them etc but they can get rid of said spirits for 5 or 6 figure sums...depending on how rich or poor the clients are.

Sounds just like $cientology.

You could even say that religions in general are the ultimate "fronts."

R69/71. Haha. I know that one well. I live in NYC but I am in that part of Philly about once a month. Looks like it's closed for good. Oh well.

[quote]Looks like it’s closed for good.

Were you thrown when he posted this:

[quote]It closed this year.

^ I guess so. A little bit. But it feels better to watch you get kicked in the cunt bone.

R63...I predict you will be sitting for traffic in hours, until you hit the OC.....

There are a lot of Ethiopian restaurants in DC that are always empty. Turns out some have gambling in the basement.

That’s because Ethiopians don’t eat. I’ve seen it.

R71 here. I'm not from Philly. Never been in decades. I just googled it. Lazy cunt.

There's a number of fur stores near my work on 30th Street between 7th and 8th. I never see anyone go in and out of them. Maybe they do mail service? Do enough people wear furs in 2019 to warrant so many stores?

Hot sausage (and cocaine!) for sale in Greenpoint Brooklyn!

I have lived on the Upper West Side of Manhattan for about 19 years, and there used to be a few perfume/cologne shops north of 96th Street on Amsterdam that never had any visible business, nor did they ever seem to be open. They were little hole-in-the-wall types of places. Why anyone would be going to these shops just for perfume or cologne always mystified me, but then it dawned on me that they were fronts for money laundering, drug holding, etc. They are mostly gone now.

There are places like these all over NE Ohio - supposed "churches" that nobody ever attends. I mean, they don't even have enough parking to hold services for parishioners even if they were legit.

The former Euclid Square Mall in Euclid, OH was completely empty at one point, except for a Dillard's outlet store. Then eventually there were like 12 "churches" that popped up in the mall, before it was ultimately demolished.

There were two other fake churches near me, one got busted as a front for gambling - it is a tiny unit that was formerly a pet grooming place, the other was in a small plaza, completely empty at all times. They had an alter in there and some chairs, and put a sign up, but never held any services. That "church" had an all glass store front, so you could see plain as day there were no actual services being held there. There wasn't anything going on in there at all.

Businesses also rent "virtual offices" in other states, to skirt their local state's laws. They technically offer actual office space, and a real receptionist to hand your calls and mail, who then ships it to your real location.

R85 here, this is an example of these types of virtual offices.

There is a shop I walk by sometimes and it sells junk. Like stuff you find at yard sales and priced at like ridiculous prices. Like a letter sized picture frame for like 300 bucks...nobody ever goes in there. I wonder how such places survive.

I'm from Portland, Oregon, where sex work runs rampant. When I was in high school, a friend of mine stopped into a "nail salon" to ask if her little brother (who was around 5 years old at the time) could use their bathroom. The women, who were Vietnamese, agreed, and directed her to a hallway that led to a bathroom. She said there were doors to numerous rooms along the hall which were open, and that there were beds in all of them. Obviously a brothel.

R3 near Corner Bistro there's a psychic on Horatio near Eighth Avenue. She and the Gypsy family live in the back. Husband's "business" is renting limos, sometimes see a white Rolls Royce outside. The psychic at Seventh Avenue South and Bleecker lives upstairs.

A friend was a Business Office Rep at the phone company in Queens. Part of her job was collecting bills. One business owed a few hundred bucks. When she called about the bill, they promised to pay. Next day, her supervisor said "don't call again." The store was a front set-up by the FBI..

For R69, R70, R71...

Believe it or not there is a positive Yelp review for the shop you were talking about.

Also, the building housing the shop just recently sold for $900,000.

My mom lives part of the year on Nantucket Island. A few years back someone open a high-end luggage shop there. Folks wondered who buys expensive luggage[italic] during[/italic] their vacation? Turns out they don't; place turned to be a drugs front.

My cousin's husband once poked his head into an Italian "coffee" store in Brooklyn with coffee pots and cans of coffee on window display; immediately apparent that this was no sort of a functioning retail business.

R51, where exactly was this store?

There was a restaurant in my home town that changed ownership and themes over the years. It's original name was The Swamp Club and it was just a bar where local men who hang out to drink and if you were underage and knew a "member" they would serve you beer. When I moved back to the area I drove past and it was now a sushi bar so I stopped in one night to see if it was any good. When I walked in there were five men talking in Russian at the regular bar and no one else in the place except the Japanese sushi chef. I was in there at least ten times and I only saw one couple actually sitting at a table eating and they were both Russian. They all looked like they would murder you and no one would ever find your body. It was obviously a front for something and a few times I almost asked the chef why Russians would be running a sushi bar but then thought better of it. The Russians never acknowledged my presence whenever I was there. There we also a bunch of large oil drums behind the parking lot and I always wondered what was in them. It closed down after about six months and the building was eventually demolished. Surprisingly the sushi was very good.

R89. I know those both. Right in my neighborhood.

In LA, water-refilling station stores.

r94, that reminds me of a Mexican restaurant in the gangster-heavy upscale suburbs north of Osaka, Japan. It was opened by a Japanese guy who had hauled over a chef and staff from Guadalajara. The food was excellent-- I'm from Texas and it's still among the best Mexican restaurants I've ever seen. The prices were absurdly low for Japan. I don't know what was going on, but upon reflection it was probably something sketchy.

There's a simple explanation for the weird little churches, it's a tax scam. You're stuck with a building you can't rent so you incorporate as a religious organization, claim the building is your church, and *Bingo*, the property is now off the tax rolls.

There are many such businesses here in Toronto. Every day I pass by two dental offices in the King & Spadina area, a couple of blocks from each other, where in 5 years or so since they were opened, I've never seen anyone, including receptionists. I'm sure the rents for both are hellishly expensive, this being a prime downtown location, so I'm assuming it's a front for money laundering, Iranian arms dealers, or something else shady, since both dental offices supposedly belong to dentists with Iranian names.

Not too dissimilar to Vancouver, R99. There's a Chinese medicine store on Robson street, which has been open for about a year. Rents are insanely high in this part of town, and there are always at least two full time staff working inside. Have never seen a single person enter the store.

Semi-related story.  My late mother loved antiquing and rummaging around thrift shops and garage sales, with a philosophy that the junkiest places often yielded the best treasures.  We were driving through a small southern town one afternoon when we passed a building packed with items visible through the windows, crammed to the ceiling on the front porch and a yard full of everything imaginable.  We stopped and Mom immediately saw something she was interested in.  "How much is this?" she asked the elderly gentleman rocking on the porch.  "I'm sorry, mam, that's not for sale" he politely replied.  Mom inquired about a second find, and was given the same response.  After asking about a third item only to be rebuffed again, it dawned on both of us that this wasn't a 'yard sale' at all; rather, it's how the occupant lived year-round!  We made a polite, embarrassed and hasty exit...but laughed uproariously when we got back in the car.

[quote]There's a simple explanation for the weird little churches, it's a tax scam. You're stuck with a building you can't rent so you incorporate as a religious organization, claim the building is your church, and *Bingo*, the property is now off the tax rolls.

Interesting, r98. A few years ago I discovered the house across the street from my grandparents in Ohio was identified as a church on google maps and I couldn't figure out why. You'd think that would be illegal - couldn't anyone just claim they were living in a church?

R57 I understand doing that, but wouldn't it make sense to actually put some sort of actual business in there to make a little extra income? There is an antique store near me, that is an actual antique store, but they only open one weekend a month. They seem to do very well on that one weekend.

[quote]It’s for money laundering, right?

Yes, yes it is.

[quote]psychics are con men/women.

You called? My hair alone is a front for something.

[quote]They had an alter in there

Oh, dear!

[quote]It's original name was The Swamp Club

Oh, DEAR!

Great story, GoldenBoy. That’s hysterical.

I can only imagine “Pops” sitting on the porch and wondering why these people were visiting.

[quote] My hair alone is a front for something.

From all appearances it's a front for spiders.

Great thread!

I've always wondered about all these mattress store chains. People don't buy mattresses all that often, and they can get them from many different places, so how do all these tiny mattress stores stay open? They never seem to have anyone in them, either. I wonder if there's some clever way to launder money through selling mattresses.

r62, the place doesn't make a profit but illegal money is cleaned that way because they put on the books that they made a profit of say 20k a month and that turns to about $250,000 a year of dirty money claiming to be made a legitimate way.

R98, R102, Anyone can have a "home church" by appointing themselves as a minister to evade taxes. Some even conduct services for their families ever Sunday. Extremely popular among the fundies.

R109, chain stores aren't good vehicles for money laundering. They have centralized accounting systems, shareholders, mandatory public filings, etc. to deal with. Most fronts are probably sole proprietor shops.

A "coffee store" on E. 12th St. in the East Village in NY that was very small and always dirty-looking from the outside, a couple of doors east of 2nd Avenue, I think. There were usually old guys in wifebeaters sitting in folding chairs out front in hot weather, and sometimes when the transom to the basement was open, you could see them down there sitting at a table, playing cards. I went in one time only, to buy one of those "French press" coffee pots to replace one belonging to a friend that I had broken. Everything inside had about 5 years' worth of dust on it, and there wasn't much in there at all. The old proprietor looked at me like I was insane. I got the picture and took off.

About 20 years ago, a friend of mine and her husband were moving from Atlanta up to Asheville, NC. She spent several months driving around out from Asheville in the country, looking at places they might buy to live. She got kind of lost on a road northwest of town one day, out in the mountains, and stopped at an old single-pump gas station, and went inside. She was looking at the stuff in the store and noticed that it all looked like it was a million years old, filthy. She stepped up to the counter and asked the old buzzard attendant for directions, and he looked at her hard and replied. "Ma'am, do you work fer the Federal govamint?" My friends ended up buying the place nearby that she was looking for then, and she subsequently came to learn that they sold only 2 things there: gasoline and moonshine.

R111 is right. All those creepy Dominionists, like the Duggars, claim their homes as churches. One of the reasons churches should be taxed.

R83, I stayed in a fleabag hotel in Madeira Beach, Florida a few years back for $100 a night. Someone on DataLounge called me a liar because I said it didn’t have A/C and was told that “they all have A/C now”. Part of the hotel was a residence hotel, as I heard the landlord arguing with one tenant who was behind in rent. I think they made money by renting the boat slips behind it. There was a Jaguar in the parking lot. Anyhow, my charge card was assessed to a “church”. I don’t know if that’s unusual for the area as everyone seems to be a realtor and a minister, and there are probably tax benefits from running a church.

R48: Yeah fellow Providence born here. I remember the New England Mob being run out of that pinball and then vending machine place. It's all been rehabbed and the vending place torn down.

No longer in that area. Doing nicely in the Atlanta area now.

Back in 1981, I drove a truck from Ptown to Boston and back once a week, to buy restaurant supplies for an Italian restaurant. This was before they busted the Boston mob so the Irish and Whitie Bulger were running Irish Southie; and the Italians were running the Italian North End.

I stopped into a North End cheese shop and waited for them to get my order from the back. While waiting, a guy rushed in. He ran up the the counter and blurted out “Vinny, you gotta protect me. They’re coming for me Vinny, you gotta help me...”. The guy was extremely panicked. Vinny kept trying to shush him. I immediately turned my back to them and started studying the cans of tomato paste that were on display. There were about 30 identical cans on the shelf and I bent over to show how engrossed I was in the ingredients. Haha. Finally my order arrived and I grabbed it, signed, and ran out without making eye contact.

But at least they really did sell cheese.

[R118] Reminds me of a bar I lived catty-corner to on Broome St. in NY, in Little Italy back in about 1990. The place was called Tony's Nut House, and it may still be there, an old bar with a black and white tile floor, been there since at least the Fifties, with pix on the walls from back then (including Marilyn Monroe in the place), Italian, mobby kind of bar. It was almost always EMPTY, but very occasionally they'd have 15 or 20 people in there drinking. There was another room in the back which had some tables in it, and the bathrooms were back there, but NO ONE ever sat back there to drink. (I am pretty sure that room was used as a "restaurant" setting in one of the episodes of the Sopranos). Well, one night I was in there with a couple of friends, and walked to the back to go take a piss. I entered that room, only to catch 2 young guys who were the perfect caricature of Italian "street punks" and they were sitting at a little table, rapidly counting a huge stack of hundred dollar bills. They stopped instantly and looked up at me, and one of them growled, "Whutchu lookin at?" I just smiled and pointed at the bathroom door and stepped in. When I came out, they were gone. I saw John Gotti in that place a couple of times. His "Ravenite Social Club" was less than a block away on Mulberry St.

R83 R84 Cleveland Heights had (has?) a lot of them. There was a video store on the corner of Lee Rd and Cedar. No videos, a few promo ones in back. J Huge empty space. Some Russian guy sat there but no customers. Took me a while to figure out it was a front. Down the street a little, near Heights High Charlotte Fingerhut was murdered in her basement. Her “video” business that she ran out of her home was some sort of drug and money laundering operation.

Aww, my friend asked me to research a friend of hers from the 1980s. A handsome young post-hippy couple who were both executed in their home. Their infant was left unharmed. I found their graves in Plymouth, MA. So sad to lose a stupid young people who got in over their heads.

Once I was driving with my mother down south of New Orleans, in one of the sugarcane parishes. I go to a lot of places in the country, but was on an unfamiliar road and got lost at twilight. We needed directions, because this was before GPS. I remember going past a farm with oil cans placed at regular intervals from each other, each with one with a single rooster on top. We finally came to this deserted crossroads with one store. The interior looked like a movie set store set in the 1880’s, with cypress shelves and an old cash register. Nothing was for sale, except a few cans of sorghum with old labels. There was an old man sitting in a chair leaning against a wall, dressed like an old gentlemen farmer. He was as confused by me as I was by him, and when he spoke he had an archaic accent I had never heard in South Louisiana—not Cajun, but like a slow drawl of old English. He pointed me in the direction of the highway, and I got onto it by dark. Looking later at a map I couldn’t figure out where I had been. It seemed like a living dream, or a time warp.

I recall driving through the South from Connecticut to Madeira Beach, Florida in the 1960s. My folks were from Brooklyn, and we were taught that in the South, the police were Gods and if we were ever pulled over, everyone had to be on their best behavior. As if some red neck sheriff would want to hassle a WWII vet, his wife, and their uncountable number of cranky kids from New Yowk.

R121 and r123, WTF does any of that have to do with this thread?

One day I had to kill some time in a particular area. I walked into a liquor store (which had been there for years) to get some water (or soda) and some snacks. There was an old man working in the store, the lights were dim, as if conserving electricity, and the candy bars had dust on the wrappers. I decided that this was a front and that all the merchandise must be old and expired. I walked out without buying anything, but wondered why you'd use a liquor store as a front. Seems like a lot of hassle in that you need to get licensed to sell liquor, etc.

R125 Not only that, but you have to deal with extra law enforcement, ATF, state excise law, etc... which isn't exactly what you want when running a front.

R111 this scheme in visible on every block in the Orthodox community of Borough Park in Brooklyn,. Every other house has become a "Yeshiva" to avoid taxes.

I think the White House might be a front for something...

I still see “VCR and TV repair” shops. I think they’ve got to be fronts since TVs are so disposable and inexpensive now. VCR’s have gone the of the Dodo.

I notice y’all are calling Roma folks ‘gypsies’, you need to check your privilege because gypsy is an offensive term.

Can we call them tramps and thieves?

R130 Where I live, we call Irish Travellers "gypsies."

[quote]I still see “VCR and TV repair” shops. I think they’ve got to be fronts since TVs are so disposable and inexpensive now. VCR’s have gone the of the Dodo.

There's one in my neighborhood run by an old guy who I gather uses it as a place to go rather than a money making venture. I stopped to see if he could fix my microwave oven (he could, but it would cost 2X what a new one would cost), and we got to talking. TVs and VCRs are dead, a few people still bring in stereo systems and turntables, but his big thing right now are vintage amps, speakers, and sound equipment for musicians which he loves because as soon as he fixes them the bands take them out and blow them up all over again.

I wish I was good at fixing stuff.

There sure seems to be a lot of "fronts" in NY and the tri-state area it seems. Sounds like a way of life, nothing close to that amount on the west coast.

This thread is an interesting revelation. Previously skipped it because I initially read 'Front Business' as a euphemism for a trans front hole/back hole type discussion.

There is something seriously wrong in this world if two people have already assumed this thread was about trans genitalia.

Or perhaps something very right in the world, r137, if we've a place like DL to drop by and make light hearted comments without judgment?

[quote]There is something seriously wrong in this world if two people have already assumed this thread was about trans genitalia.

Well, they both are false advertising so not exactly a stretch.

There is an relic shop on 57th street between lex and 3rd ave in Manhattan. They sell ancient shit from caves and stuff you see in museums. Nobody ever goes in there. Always empty. How can a shop like this survive and make money? who the fuck buys this shit?

I think this massage place near me (owned by Chinese conveniently located next to a Chinese takeout place) is a front business. They do have a website though. Would a front business go so far as to have a website to appear that they are real?

[QUOTE] There is an relic shop on 57th street between lex and 3rd ave in Manhattan. They sell ancient shit from caves and stuff you see in museums. Nobody ever goes in there. Always empty. How can a shop like this survive and make money? who the fuck buys this shit?

I never see anyone in there either, but I spoke with someone who works there and he said if they sell one large expensive piece that week they’re good. Their customers are either very wealthy people looking for dramatic pieces for their homes, or middle class people who want to buy inexpensive ancient coins made of less valuable alloys, just for the fun of having it.

There is a local restaurant that has been in business over 20 years. They are open Tuesday - Saturday, 5 pm - 10 pm but you have to call ahead to make sure they are open, as sometimes the doors are locked and/or they are having a private event. It is old-school, homemade Italian nonna style food. I seriously think if they are opening, the owner gets his mom to come in and cook and his kids wait tables.

No stick your nose where no belong, bad things happen.

I was giving a friend a ride home last night and mentioned that there were a lot more cars parked on the street and the driveway of his next-door neighbor. (This was early on a weeknight; an unlikely time for a party.) He said it happens often and he suspects they're running a brothel. He said they also do car detailing during the day ... so while the men wait to have their cars detailed, they can get themselves "detailed" inside.

I still love this thread.

There is a restaurant in my rural town that has gone through multiple iterations/owners in the past decade. It was closed twice by the police (for money laundering when it was a fried seafood restaurant and again for drug sales when it was an upscale bistro) in this time.

This year it is an 'all-you-can-eat' chicken place. It is only open two nights a week (Friday and Saturday) from 4-9pm. I've never seen more than 5-6 cars in the parking lot (and that would include the employees as well as customers).

It makes no sense to operate that place as any restaurant. The town does not have municipal water/sewage so water comes from a well and the septic needs to be pumped and hauled away regularly since there is no leech field (the restaurant sits next to the river). The building is around 100 years old and has been an auto dealership, a juke joint, and a country bar. When I moved here 20 years ago, it was a roadside store selling lottery tickets, cigarettes, beer and worms/minnows. It also had one of those disgusting large glass jar with hardboiled eggs in a red pickling brine on the front counter.

My favorite thread, I don't know why.

In my area we have a Custom Dinette shop. Who buys dinettes anymore? Is this 1972? Never see any cars parked outside the shop. About 1.5 miles east we had a rattan furniture store. Is this Florida, 1986? Who furnishes a home in west suburban Chicago with rattan furniture? Definitely fronts for money laundering.

Somewhat related. A paranoid frau here on the Upper East Side (low 90s) said she lives across from a townhouse where she noticed men going in with their dogs. She said it was a quickie upscale brothel where the guys would tell their wives they were taking the dog for a walk and pop in for a quickie.

She was a little, as I said, paranoid and neurotic, so I don’t know if it’s true or not. But it could be, and really, sort of genius.

R69 I could tell a Greek owned that business from the marble alone. With Greeks they are the ultimate misreporters of income and cooking the bpoks. They aren't fronters but are great at keeping real books and ones for The IRS.

[quote]There is a shop I walk by sometimes and it sells junk. Like stuff you find at yard sales and priced at like ridiculous prices. Like a letter sized picture frame for like 300 bucks...

Like, really?

Psychic readings have become an online and phone business, but nothing wrong with having a few walk-ins paying cash, you don't have to pay taxes on that income.

There is an antique shop that on Lexington ave and the 50s. Nobody ever buys anything in there and it's been there for years and years...I have seen a few of such shops in Manhattan and wonder how they stay in biz.

'The Beatles' was a front business.

R154

I think those are hobbies for rich people: "Oh, I have a little shop ..."

I was desperately looking for a place for a new watch battery and turned to Yelp. I found one a couple miles away with no star ratings, but several reviews all saying the same thing: go there, call the phone number on the sign on the entry door, and wait. I thought that sounded super sketchy, so I went elsewhere.

A couple Thursdays ago, around 4:00pm, I found myself in that area of town, coincidentally I had with me another watch with a dead battery. I was stopped in traffic and looked over to see somebody coming out and the "open" sign turned around. I parked and went in. There were ancient display cases with dusty watches and other jewelry haphazardly laid out. Some old cabinets with tiny drawers were behind the display cases. No price tags, no cash register. The place reeked of old wooden furniture, dust, and faint smells of pipe smoke. A 60-ish guy came from behind a curtain and asked if I had an appointment. I told him I was driving past and noticed he was open, so no, I just stopped in. He told me to call the number in the window to make an appointment.

I said I really just needed a new battery for my watch. Without even looking at it, he said he did not stock batteries for my watch (a common Movado 800 series). So I turned around and headed to the door. I got in my car and saw him lock the door, turn the sign to closed, and lower the blinds. There is a nail salon on one side or the watch repair and a used furniture on the other. After reading this thread, money laundering or other illegal activity makes so much sense.

I demand MOAR!!

All the rumors about front business are certainly true, and all New Yorkers have had the experience of walking into a place and realizing that nothing is actually intended to be sold/served there.

But some of these bizarre stores are relics of a time, 50 or 60 years ago, when middle-class people could afford to buy a building and live upstairs while running a business downstairs. Time marches on, the building is paid off, and now one of the kids, or the widow, owns the building and doesn't have the heart to shut the store down, but also doesn't have the energy to really run a business any more. So you see the dusty displays, the odd opening hours, etc.

(The grandkids are, of course, waiting for Nonna or Yaya to kick off, at which time the business will simply cease opening without notice. The building, now worth 3 or 4 million bucks, will slowly disintegrate and become a pigeon and rat housing facility while the survivors battle for the property in a decades-long probate battle. When the building becomes dangerously structurally unsound, a developer will buy out the family and promise to build a contextually appropriate building that fits in with the adjoining brownstones. That will, of course, be an utter lie.)

R62 people who set up "front businesses" aren't using their investment in the business as a way to generate income. They set up a business where it's typical for cash to be received and deposited into a bank account. Banks are required to screen their customers and large regular cash deposits point to money laundering or illegal sources unless the customer has a business where cash is a normal form of payment. So all the cash they receive from drug sales, gambling, or whatever is made to look like business income in the form of a restaurant or some type of retail establishment.

A friend gave me a gift certificate for a massage and I finally got around to using it. The location is close to me and I've driven by many times, also had been in for nail services a long time ago (I'm female). I tried calling and could never get through, then I went to the web site and emailed - nothing. I really wanted a massage, so I decided to just stop by... I pull in the back parking lot and something just felt off. It was kind of run down, but a fancy new mercedes SUV was parked there. There were weird signs on the windows and a bunch of door bells "please ring before entering". Umm, okay. I went to the front and buzzed. A shocked woman answered and peeked her head out. I said I had a gift card and was trying to book an appointment. She told me the nail lady went back to Vietnam and they aren't taking appointments and don't hand out gift cards. Turns out, it was the wrong place with a similar name to a REAL massage place in another part of town.

I finally found and went to the real place and the guy I was talking to (who turned out to be a creep, actually - which is another story) confirmed the spa I tried to go to was a sex massage parlor. I even found it on "rub maps" which calls out where you can go in your city for a happy ending or god knows what.

I'm just wondering, how the hell do these places stay in business? I looked them up more in depth and they used to be a legit salon with positive Yelp reviews, etc but that stopped around 2015. It now calls itself a "health clinic". It's in a popular and well traveled part of town, too. Does the city know about it and not care? Or just it goes on and nobody cares? I'm simply amused and curious but a little creeped out as well.

We've had a dry cleaners/laundry store operating for a few years that charges about a quarter of the price of their competitors, the business takes up about half of the store and they do a good job. Thing is they open from noon to 2am.

Everybody locally knows that it's basically a front for drug dealers, Heroin, Coke, Crack anything you like. It's a drug candy store.

As long as they keep doing an excellent job on the laundry I don't really care.

About 20 years ago when I first moved to LA I went into a store on Sunset Blvd (I think in the same block as Guitar Center) that was part dry cleaner/tailor, part used compact discs. I was the only one in the store and the workers in the dry cleaner section seemed a bit surprised to have someone browsing the CDs. It was a very odd setup but at the time used CD stores were still pretty common so I didn't think too much of it. Looking back though I would make sense if it was some kind of front business.

R157, it may not be not a front business. Watch and clock repair is a highly specialized field, and most of the guys who do it seem to be over 60. In my experience, they’re also rather eccentric. Your guy probably doesn’t want to bother with small-scale stuff, or else he has regular customers and isn’t interested in expanding his business. When you walked in, he probably just wanted his dinner more than he wanted to be bothered with a watch battery for a stranger.

I have a couple of old clocks that I inherited from my parents and grandparents. When I needed to get them cleaned and repaired, I took them to a guy who had a tiny, jammed and rather dusty shop but who had great reviews on Yelp. He was courteous, but not at all anxious for business. His cost and repair-time estimate was very much take-it-or-leave-it. He kept the clocks for two months to do what was pretty minor work. He did a good job, though, and his business is legitimate. He’s just older and not interested in working any harder than he wants to.

R161, since it's not illegal to run a legitimate massage business, the police have to target a "spa" for enforcement. Closing the place down and arresting the owner requires proof of prostitution, which either means a raid or undercover work.

Raids attract a lot of attention and aren't popular in quieter suburban areas, although big-city police conduct them all the time. Undercover work always raises the possibility of an entrapment claim, which will bog down the police and DA in what, for them, is a minor crime (unless trafficking is involved). Where I live, these places are usually tucked away in light industrial areas or run-down old strip malls, where they frankly don't cause a lot of trouble or attract more than passing attention from the respectable population.

Sooner or later, the police will probably get around to taking action against the place you described.

All of the people are amateurs DJT

Interesting thread. One reason I stay on DL. It never occurred to me that such places existed.

Secret’s in the sauce, R94!

What an absolutely riveting story, r164.

Thanks for the reply, R165. Makes enough sense.