Eldergays, what's the single worst change you've seen in air travel in the past 30 years?

Requiring clothing.

People bringing smelly food on board.

Poor people.

“Emotional support” animals.

TSA's shoe removal policy. It's especially nauseating because I sometimes find myself on the Bathing Optional flights.

I am not a food snob, so I was always thrilled to get a complete meal put on my tray table while traveling at 600MPH and 35,000 feet in the air, even on short haul domestic flights.

It used to be exciting and fun. They sucked every bit of fun out of air travel every step of the way, from the airport parking, TSA, smaller seats wiith less leg room. Even the ticket counter when you have to check a bag is a pain in the ass.

Amen r3. think how profitable airlines could be if they reduced the number of flights and priced the bottom 50% of earners out of their target demographic.

Smaller seats and less leg room, all to cram more people on a flight.

The claustrophobic effect of more seats and less legroom. I was in an economy seat this past weekend and wow, was I glad it was a short flight.

X-post r9

TSA - especially the shoe thing. Largely because you never know if you will need 20 minutes or 2+ hours. A huge waste of time added on to an already arduous process.

Seats suck - but I think they always have. Though leg room may have declined, they have done a lot with the seat technology to make it more comfortable than the old rock hard metal chairs.

Cocktail parties.

Flying is a nightmare, but (especially on long flights) the negative things have been pretty much been off-set by the increase in individualized in-flight entertainment options.

TSA. In all aspects. I remember before 911 how I would grab a flight from Houston to San Antonio running up to the gate at last minute and getting on board. With all of the security stuff, it takes less time to drive from Houston to S.A. than it does to fly.

Allowing Muslims onboard and prohibiting smoking.

Baggage fees. Since nobody wants to pay them people are dragging huge suitcases to place in the overhead bin. It takes forever now to board and deplane because there are more bags than people.

1. Flying is too popular for its' own good.

Flying used to be something special. People dressed up, or at least - didn't wear pyjamas, shorts, tank tops, leggings (and it's ALWAYS the ones you DON'T want to see in shorts/tank tops/leggings...) Flying is now akin to taking the bus. Confrontational, aggressive people who think it's the airlines job to provide a full course meal and beverages on a 25 minute flight, and that flying somehow absolves them of taking care of things like feeding themselves when things go wrong.

Many delays are created because there are simply too many people flying now. Congested airports, overtaxed ATC. One glitch somewhere in New York has a domino effect across the country because the margin for error with delays is too short.

The Boeing 737 800 Max.

When flight attendants began existing "for our safety" rather than "for our service."

R19, you've said that in another thread as well.

Whats your problem with Flight Attendants? They've always been there "for your safety" rather than for your service.

It's mostly airline marketing that has made people think otherwise.

Years ago (even longer than 30 years), people commonly asked, "What are wearing on the plane?" Because for one thing, flying on a plane was something special . It was an occasion. You got a bit dressed up when flying. And planes were rarely full so you often times had the opportunity to stretch out or at least put a bag or your jacket on the seat beside you--do you wouldn't arrive at your destination a wrinkled mess. Of course, I understand that is no longer the case. I have flown plenty. However, now no one asks "What are you wearing?" Now you're cramped into a plane that is always full, seats are small, leg room barely existent. Now it's all about comfort and wearing whatever will make you feel comfortable getting from point A to point B. Flying is nothing more than a glorified bus ride and is no longer a special occasion and certainly not something for which you would get dressed up.

The pigs who travel now.

Allowing flight attendants to work until they're old and ragged looking and miserable acting. I remember the days when Delta Airlines would not even allow their "stewardesses" to be married. But then, those were the days when stewardesses were all attractive young, single women who took those jobs to find themselves a well to do husband.

The airlines have gotten much better at filling flights. I used to have an empty seat next to me most of the time. Now it’s a special treat.

R20 Upset flight attendant telling you no she cannot assist you with your luggage because she is there for your safety.

Those tight fitting yoga pant things that fat overweight women wear everywhere these days. They hold odors like nobody's business, too. Peee-ooooo!!

Or young women wearing leggings tucked in Ugg boots, dragging their feet through terminals along with a pillow that they brought from home.

Has got to be the most low class frau annoying habit I've ever seen. I cringe whenever I see this.

(I will say though, as a frequent traveler, wear track pants and tennis shoes these days on flights. The comfort is undeniable. I've been stuck in a suit at the tail end of business trips when I fly home directly afterwards and I hate it.)

Definitely the trash on most flights now. 20 years ago, there was only decent people and trash rode the bus. Now they’re everywhere and even when I opt for first class, I have to watch them pass by on their way to the back of the plane and smell them. Yuck 🤢

[quote] Definitely the trash on most flights now. 20 years ago, there was only decent people and trash rode the bus.

Is this a parody?

Are you supposed to be the snobby neighbor who gets her comeuppance in some 1960s sitcom?

Or just a shopbottom with middle class aspirations?

Blame much of it on Expedia, Kayak and the like.

Airlines figured out that people chose their flights according to the prices listed on those sites, so they began charging extra for everything in an attempt to have the lowest prices. (Why the travel sites never did an apples-to-apple comparison, e.g., "price with meal and 1 checked bag" is another story.)

That's why United and American have those Super Economy fares (I forget the actual names) where you don't get to pick your seat or bring a bag on--because they figure people will click those on Expedia and by the time they are most of the way through the process will figure they'll just pay the upgrade charge to regular economy, versus starting all over again from scratch.

I'm going to agree on baggage fees. Ive become way more conscious about what I bring with me, but many aren't and try to bring it all on the plane.

Leg room. I'm 6'2". Comfort+ seats used to be an extra 99$ even to Europe, but when I went to Spain last month, those premium seats were going for an extra 400. Nope

TSA. I really feel like we're cattle being hearded. Screaming orders, barking, scowls - flying has become a miserable experience. I'll only fly now if it's more than 500 miles.

In fairness to TSA, most airport agents around the world are obnoxious.

Gurl flying is fun !!!! Especially with gay flight attendants !!!

R23-Why should you care how attractive or not a stewardess is? You're a gay male.

R33 They're the worst of them all.

Worst change: TSA, despite the need for them. Best: no smoking on board. Hard to believe they used to allow that, but only in specially designated rows. Like that would help.

[quote]Flying used to be something special. People dressed up

People like you are so tiresome. I hope your next ten flights are delayed. For hours. With you unable to leave your seat.

Longer than 30 years ago, the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978.

No customer service at all. TSA. Stupid carry-on regulations. Luggage fees. No food. Drunk pilots.

The absolute trash who fly these days. Definitely. You wonder if they were raised by animals.

True, r23. Being a fight attendant was not originally designed to be a career. It was something for young women to do for a few years to see the world and then move on to other things.

United Airlines especially seems to cultivate a staff of flight attendants who are angry and seem spiteful. It’s bizarre. I don’t want to be anywhere near people who act like mad dogs, but being trapped on an airplane for hours and forcibly handed shitty snacks by pissed off assholes is a special kind of misery.

I am easygoing and I don’t complain to strangers about almost anything, but I sit in silent misery on flights like that, and most United flights are like that. I just went to Ireland with my dad, who hasn’t left the country since he was in the Navy 40 years ago. He has heard about all the airline degradation over the years but he was really confused about why all the flight attendants on this international flight seemed thisclose to punching people in their faces.

[quote]The airlines have gotten much better at filling flights. I used to have an empty seat next to me most of the time. Now it’s a special treat.

This. And back in the day of US Airways, Continental, etc., they saved the exit row seats for VIP customers -- I wasn't one, but I was good at showing up at the gate early and wheedling.

I'd rather have more side-to-side room on a plane than more legroom.

Not being able to open the windows.

Discount airlines, Uber, Airbnb ..... all set up to move low-income and low-functioning poor people around the world. Civility is a thing of the past.

The pigs are out of the barn, and probably sitting in the seat next to you.

The lack of any decent leg room.

Pilots seem to have gotten less handsome.

20 years ago, I was on a late-night flight from New York that was almost empty. I think there might have been 12 or 13 people on board, and only a couple in first class. The flight attendants opened the sparkling wine normally saved for first class and poured it for all of the passengers. Can you imagine that happening today?

Air flight’s decline began when People Express came into existence, and its customers came into its terminals.

"Gentlemen only" flights on Mohawk Airlines c.1960

r48 the flights with only a few people on them were the best! Everybody was in a jolly mood, it was a very laid-back atmosphere. Unfortunately flights like that don't happen anymore.

[quote] negative things have been pretty much been off-set by the increase in individualized in-flight entertainment options.

This is about the only improvement. Remember the days when your only option for entertainment (if you didn't want to "read"), was whatever unreleased movie the studios dumped on the airlines? My kindle, my iPod classic, and tv/movies I download onto an old android phone make my flights so much more bearable.

It's a horror show of self-absorbed boors who think everything revolves around them. A carry on? Why that's a streamer trunk. See? It has a HANDLE. I'll just leave it here in the aisle in first class while the crew sorts it and I'll wander back to my seat in 38F. Or the assholes who wear backpacks walking through an aircraft, knocking everyone in the face. HEY DUMBASSES: take the damn things off and carry it in front of you when boarding an aircraft. Are you really that stupid?

That's what's gotten worse. Beyond the seats and food getting expensive and inedible.

Flight attendants suck, and not in a good way. Hunties, you're not even waitresses anymore. Take my trash and shut up.

How close and tight the seats have become, I can deal with everything else but those 11 hour flights are now almost unbearable.

Dressing up on a plane already was over 30 years ago.

Suicidal pilots.

Not being able to take liquids on planes. I always used to take four or five bottles of high end wine in my carry on when returning to Canada from the US. I would never take the risk of putting them in my check-in luggage, where they could be (and routinely are) dropped and bashed around.

R56- In 1979 people were NOT dressing up anymore. By the early 1970's people were dressing like slobs.

I haven’t flown in over 20 years. I’m not cattle and I won’t pay for the privilege of being treated as such.

Flying business class/first class is still pleasant I'm sure if one can afford it.

[quote] R20: You've said that in another thread as well. Whats your problem with Flight Attendants? They've always been there "for your safety" rather than for your service.

You’ve confused R19 with me. I’m the guy who posted something similar to what R19 posted. Can you identify what thread that was?

[quote] Being a fight attendant was not originally designed to be a career.

My grandmother was a "stewardess" before she married my grandfather. She was also a registered nurse. In the early days of air travel, stewardesses had to be nurses as a job requirement because back then it really was "safety first".

[quote] R23: Allowing flight attendants to work until they're old and ragged looking and miserable acting.

I was on a flight once when I noticed this old woman marching from the front to the rear of the plane. Then she did it again, and then again. I figured she was using the bathroom in the back. Later I realized that she was a flight attendant! Haha.

Bus people

r17 r28 blame the airline lobby. They helped slow down the development of high speed rail in America. It's because of this that many people now depend on flying and since domestic airlines are protected from the superior service of internal airlines. They can do whatever they want and still overcharge and overbook.

seat belt extenders. why haven't the airlines figured out that they should set the fares base on the customer's Height/weight index? If you have to pay more to haul heavy luggage, why not charge more for hauling extra fat?

I can't imagine it's fun to be some divorced 50 year old flight attendant with bad arches and a terrible schedule. It ain't a glamorous job.

R63 we seem to have come full circle.

Some still are nurses (after 911 a lot of cops/firemen became flight attendants) and though it'll likely fall on deaf ears here, most of any training course involves safety related subjects. Service is usually the last day for an hour or two. (Unless you work for Emirates or the like)

Now, most airlines like the Ultra Low Cost Carriers just hire kids that won't be around for very long so they can use and abuse them, pay them shit wages and move-em-in, move-em-out.

"You're just a glorified waitress" Tell you what, If you have a heart attack on this flight, I'll get you a diet coke.

Bring me the Diet Coke and STFU, unless you are a cardiologist.

The barbaric process known as boarding a plane. Isn't there a better, more civilized way?

Small children who sit right behind you in seat 38C and use the back of your seat as kick board, while the parents sit right next to them, oblivious to how annoying it is to seat 37C.

Fees for checked baggage are OK for me.

However, the airlines should enforce the rules they have re: what size / weight your carry-on bag should be. That should cut down on the overheads being too full.

What I hate is someone who walks on the plane then puts his / her bag in the first overhead spot they see (instead of waiting until they reach their row and finding a spot in the vicinity).

I don't mind bringing my own food and entertainment (phone or tablet) on the plane.

I wish I could fly the glory days... my first flight was in 2002 :(

The shrinking seats. When I last flew to London on the red-eye, I wasn’t able to sleep because of insufficient leg room. I’m 6’2”. It made adjusting to the time change more difficult.

I think that’s what is behind air rage. Tiny seats, and sold out planes, stress a lot of people out.

This weekend I was at O’Hare. A gay couple (preened muscle bears with sprayed-on clothing) had an untrained Airedale with a crude little vest on reading “service dog”. The dog was out of control and had clearly never been trained for basic obedience, much less in an official service capacity.

Sprayed on clothing-does that mean their clothing was TIGHT?

Bitter flight attendant in this thread, plenty of foreign flight attendants can offer safety and service so please get the fuck back to throwing power trips to the folks on your flight.

Safety first. Please.

Yeah the cops and Air Force also pass out peanuts and collect trash.

You don't even get peanuts most of the time, because of airborne allergies.

Flights became less expensive after the airlines were de-regulated in the 1980s.

SECURITY!!!

They need to realise that they are as much a part of hospitality as they are of safety from terrorism.

R16, THIS A THOUSAND TIMES. YOU ARE SO RIGHT MY FRIEND.

We won’t some airlines just operate a total Premium Economy flight and charge more money per seat? I’d pay several hundred more for a flight if the whole experience was just more comfortable and dignified. We don’t all want economy.

Also, if you think it’s bad now, look what is set to come...

R82 I’ve said the same thing about someone should start an airline for adults only. Can’t tell you how many flights I’ve taken made even more awful because of loud, crying or ill-behaved crotch fruit. My last flight involved a demonic toddler who screamed bloody murder the whole time, and whose fat clueless mom allowed him to run up and down the aisle, bothering people. Even more frustrating the flight attendants did NOTHING about it.

Mass air travel.

If I’m traveling long distance with little leg room, I want to dress as comfortably as possible. So I’m more than okay with leggings or track pants.

Bitchy male flight attendants!

Stewardess is a much better description- for both genders.

Sardine conditions for us, the hoi polloi. My golden age of public air travel was the late 80's early 90's when flights were way underbooked yet flew anyway, individual space was grand in economy, as was service, and one could often luxuriate in an empty ROW of seats.

Yes, R76. Comically tight clothing.

[quote]Bitchy male flight attendants!

But you repeat yourself, my dear ...

[quote]Confrontational, aggressive people who think it's the airlines job to provide a full course meal and beverages on a 25 minute flight

I don't care about 25-minute flights, but it would be nice to have a meal on a 6-hour cross continental flight. But no, that's now too much to ask for.

The TSA inappropriately touching innocent people. I think that starts so much chaos.

I was in an airport restroom a few months ago that had a disposable plastic wrap cover over the toilet seat. It was supposed to slide on a new cover after every flush, but it must have been broken. The plastic wrap was torn, wet with sweat, and marked with shit. That doesn't have anything to do with your question, but I felt I should tell someone.

I only fly if it's a vacation now, and then get one of those sleeper things. The money is well worth it.

R83, I was on a bus ride like that once. Fucking baby would not shut up.

I can handle smaller space for a cheap ticket, and am OK with my own media and food.

But the nasty people traveling are what's changed for the worst. Adults wearing pajamas, unbathed, noisy, rude , selfish, no regard for other people...they are the true nightmares.

The very lowest was the time we were all boarding and here comes a fat woman to a bulkhead seat and I swear to God she put her bare foot up on the bulkhead and farted, like she'd been waiting all day.

I miss the bar upstairs, on those big old Boeings.

The biggest shoe is the narrow seats. Frankly most of the other issues can be handled in someway from food to noise. When possible I upgrade to first class. It’s usually worth it unless it’s a short flight. If you have status getting upgraded on the short flights is it generally difficult.

Fewer planes crashes.

I wish I were a straight white male who flew frequently back in the day. The stewardess were whores, spacious seating, gourmet eating.

As my grandmother said after taking her first and last budget airline flight: “Darling if I wanted to travel with the kind of person who normally travels by bus I would have caught one”.

r101, I love your granny. Fierce!

I'm with you R85. Comfort over anything else when flying

I miss the days when the pilot would leave the cockpit and fuck a steward in the airplane bathroom. I'm pretty sure this was a documentary of a normal flight in the 1980s, right?

I used to love Nighflight!

For me it's the lack of legroom and the amount of carry-on everyone has now. Flights aren't as glamorous as they were. I remember putting on a suit to fly to the Caribbean in 1987 so it wasn't long ago that people dressed to fly as it was an event. Now it's hum-drum.

You would think people would be courteous enough to take a quick shower and put on clean clothes before a flight, but no. You have to smell their BO for hours. I don't know what the hell is wrong with people.

Speaking of BO, I was flying out of Logan the other day. We didn't have to take off our shoes when going through security. However, a younger guy next to me did anyway. He appeared Indian. And holy fuck, I had to told my breath until he put the shoes back on his feet.

It was rancid.

[quote]I only fly if it's a vacation now, and then get one of those sleeper things.

What sleeper things? I’m interested maybe in picking one up.

TIA

I personally don’t shower when I get up at the crack of dawn for a flight. I put on sweats, dark shades, and headphones and zone out. I couldn’t care less about fellow passengers or their comfort. Who the fuck are they? This tactic also works for those annoying assholes who try to start up an inane conversation. That first shower when I finally get to my hotel room is amazing though!!

I assume r109 votes libertarian

I don’t even go to the grocery store unless I’ve showered.

I don't even ride the subway in my blue jeans!

This!

Just kidding, but when I read this headline I thought of this thread immediately.

The confusion and misery of airport security. I can't believe more people aren't talking about this. It's turned air travel into a nightmare, and you haven't even gotten on the friggin plane.

Human beings

Security isn't so bad if you make the effort to get a pre-screening. I think it's good for 5 years, kind of like getting a passport.

Pan Am, Boeing 747 upper deck, first class lounge (1970)

Emirates, Airbus A380 upper deck, first class bar/lounge (2019)

Emotional support animals. I was on a flight with a large dog who sat in and vomited in the aisles.

I recently (and unintentionally) managed to take a bottle of poppers on a plane in my carry-on luggage.

So much for the efficacy of airport security.

Air travel seemed so laid-back and relaxing in the 60s and 70s. Of course everybody was drunk and smoking, so that probably had something to do with it.

The completely insane TSA security. I stopped flying to the US because of it. The rest of the world takes a much more sensible approach because they profile.

no more metal wings for kids

Smoke-filled cabins. Pfft, 30 years is nuthin'!

That Emirates lounge isn't a patch on the old Pan Am ones but I'd sure take it. I didn't know their fleet had that, I've never flown them.

Everything. Literally everything, from the tiny seats in overcrowded planes through the surly flight attendants and the boorish fellow passengers shoving oversized luggage and and pets onto the plane, to the useless TSA kabuki whose sole purpose is to make travelers (wrongly) feel like someone is doing something for their safety, while actually increasing the likelihood of a violent incident because it raises EVERYONE's aggression levels.

Having the entertainment options of your own smartphone or tablet on board in no way compensates for the appalling decline in every other aspect of plane travel.

TWA, Boeing 747, international first class seat (1980)

Singapore Airlines, Airbus A380 international first class seat (2019)

Etihad Airlines, Airbus A380 international first class seat (2019)

American Airlines, Boeing 777 international first class seat (2019)

Singapore first-class looks the best. I wouldn't mind flying at all as long as I could always fly like that.

In the 1960s, Boeing produced a mock-up interior of the then new 747 that featured a "Tiger Lounge" in the lower section of the airplane below the main passenger cabin... this is soooooooooo DataLounge in style!

Flying became less of an event and more of a cattle herding exercise.

The Poors have cheapened the experience and ruined it.

Emirates is the way to go

single worst change I've seen : uniforms and hair styles (Pan Am 1970)

Emirates, new first class seat (2019)

Emirates, new first class seat (2019)

r116, So many people now have Pre-screening its a joke. My last flight it was longer than the regular line. TSA Pre-check should only be for military and other important people.

Like you, r138?

I've never had trouble with pre-screening and I fly out of LAX.

[quote]Why should you care how attractive or not a stewardess is? You're a gay male.

We are more appreciative of beauty than others and are more troubled by the lack of it.

The worst thing to happen is consolidation. The US domestic market should still have at least ten carriers. The competition produced below cost fares that were a boon to leisure travelers.

r136 r137 Emirates and Qatar Airlines would love to set up shop in the US but the govt. prohibits it to protect domestic US airlines. Because if they were to arrive, all the domestic airlines would be screwed, they wouldn't be able to keep up with the service and amenities of cross continental flights offered by a premium airline.

Post 9/11 flight attendants who believe they're the "front line" against terrorism.

R143 Their planes are nice, but I don't wish to support them. Especially, Qatar, which is own by the government of Qatar. I'd rather suffer in the worse budget class airplane, than give them any money.

I never got to fly until 2007 and I remember my mother really talking up how much fun it was going to be and how luxurious it was. She hadn't been on a flight since the early 80's.

If I can afford it, these days, I like to only travel first class. I can't stand the non-existent leg room and smelly people in economy. You never know who you'll get stuck next to. I can't even imagine an international flight in economy. I'd kill myself.

There's no problem with suffering in a bad budget class airplane, r145, for those who are up for it and looking to fly cheap.

The problem is that even when you're not paying a budget price, you're still getting screwed on service. "Economy Plus" today is 17 levels below what normal "Economy" was in the 1980s, and even First is like a cattle car in the US these days. In Europe too.

R147 That wasn't my point. I would suffer in bad budget class airplanes, even if I could afford to pay more, before I would give a dime to Emerites or Qatar. Somethings are more important than my comfort. Their planes are nice and their service wonderful, but Qatar is horrible on human rights, especially for LGB people and women, and they still practice slavery.

Narrower sits with less legroom and the sheer number of people schlepping all their earthly possessions on board in their carry ons, causing the mad dash for overhead compartments. Most airlines have realized that business travel is where the profit is so they regard the economy class passengers as necessary evil that deserves to be treated with disdain, reserving good service exclusively for the business/first class.

Omg, people's carry on bags have gotten ridiculous nowadays. Its like why the fuck wouldn't youcheck that big piece shit in, you rude cunt. The worst are middle aged fraus who expect you to help them with their shit. dumb cunts.

Also because there so many fatties and out of shape Americans, they move so fkin slow. It now takes forever to deboard a plane as these sloths take forever to get their shit. I don't mind the elderly but fkin 20 something years old moving like fkin turtles and older fraus who bring their huge luggage as carry on. Omg.

Everything about flying in the 1980s that’s totally different now : A nostalgic look back at how air travel used to be.

"British Airways' first class: a history of flying in style" (1927 - today)

Were flights delayed/cancelled regularly 30+ years ago?

British Airways, Boeing 747 first class (1980)

British Airways, Airbus A380 first class (2019)

I lot of today's international flights remind me of transatlantic ocean liners c. 1890-1915. The rich ride in increasingly luxurious spaces and the masses are relegated to steerage. Tight spaces, inferior food, no amenities and surly attendants.

spam posted by ip address 173.234.158.82 removed.

R154, I guess flights were even more delayed/cancelled than they are today. But today, the size of the airlines and micromanagement methods lead to a situation where the incidence of delays and cancellations is much greater than 30 years ago.

In the 70s and 80s, airlines had less aircrafts, and flights had multiple legs (3 or 4 stops to destination were common)... You can imagine the disaster when a single aircraft was out of order. Delays and cancellations were due to technical issues.

Today, airlines have several hundred planes, and they usually schedule direct flights, so an aircraft can be easily replaced in case of technical issue. But such huge fleet are confronted to management issues and absurd security policies.

Today, I would say that a flight is mostly delayed because of management errors and security policies... and a flight gets cancelled mostly because it is not as profitable as expected. For example, if your flight is 90% full, the aircraft can be sent to a destination where it will be 95% full... The opportunity cost of such measure outweighs customer complains, trials, etc...

R157, this is exactly what's going on. and will get worse for low-tier fares.

In the 80s, MGM Grand Air was largely a charter airline owned by MGM Mirage operating VIP charters as well as scheduled service between Los Angeles International Airport and John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York using an aircraft with an all premium seating configuration. First class was the only class on MGM Grand and the airline’s motto at one point was, “Everything else should be called second class.” Sadly, the airline sold its holdings in 1995.

The worst thing....gasbags who are nostalgic for airline food (which always sucked), a golden era w/o cancellations and delays (didn't exist and the puddle jumper likes with flights that have 3 or 4 legs were always late). the shrinkage in space was first noticable 30+ years ago. I doubt that the snowflakes here would pay more to fly even if they could get some marginal increase in comforts.

Everybody-dress-alike group discounts have gotten out of hand

I don't feel nostalgic for airplane food in the 80s and 90s - it sucked even back then. I would actually prefer to order my own food in advance and have it delivered to the gate or on board for an extra fee.

BA is still pretty good. Theses days, I don't care about food etc. I only care that the planes are well maintained and ain't gonna fall outta the sky.

At the risk of sounding like a total MARY!, despite all many indignities involved with air travel these days I still find the whole concept of flying nothing short of miraculous.

Yesterday, a friend posted an Instagram photo of his plane seat, complaining about the quality of the free headphones. Forgetting that he was also about to fly through the fucking air at 30,000 fucking feet in a metal machine, and in almost complete safety, and will also get fed while he's up there. Then after travelling for a few hours in relative comfort you'll arrive in a completely different country.

Until relatively recently in human history, such journeys were completely unimaginable. And since the invention of transcontinental travel, never have they been as safe, cheap, fast and as frequent. What a time to be alive.

People who complain about air travel have broken souls.

First Class being replaced by downmarket Business Class

"Were flights delayed/cancelled regularly 30+ years ago?"

After the airlines were deregulated in the late 1970's, airlines had to tighten their budgets. Most of them went to a hub-and-spoke model for efficiency's sake. That system works fine, but if something happens in one hub, it reverberates throughout the entire system, causing delays and cancellations. Hence, the greater number of cancellations today.

Southwest is the largest carrier to use a point-to-point system still, but now they have other problems (a greater dependence on the now grounded 737Max).

There were a lot more.domestic crashes in the 70s. Don’t miss that.

Almost everything. Mainly space.

The creation by the large airlines of the "regional" airline system.

They farm out flights to small airlines that compete against each other to do the the work at the cheapest price. These smaller airlines then do that work while appearing to be one of the legacy carriers. Just tack an "express" or other name on the back. They then proceed to cheap out in every area possible in order to make the cheap quote they gave, work. This includes maintenance. "You don't need a toilet or air-conditioning on a 1 hour flight, and we can legally defer that for xx calendar days" - off you go. "Our customer, (the large airline) wants On Time Performance" - so fixing things takes a back seat. Everything takes a back seat to OTP.

Don't worry, they'll still say that safety is #1, because words don't cost them a cent.

Colgan Air may be gone, but plenty of others have stepped forward to replace them. Same modus operandi.

Flying used to be a destination activity in its own right. The giant leap from piston powered commercial flights of the 20s to the jet age of the 60s occurred incredibly fast. Little has changed in terms of technology since the 60s. We still get aboard jet aircraft. Ok there may be a couple of engines less, but that's the only noticeable change.

Getting a flight is very much seen as an everyday activity, regardless of the miracle of putting a human up in the air at 35,000 feet bowling along at 500 mph.

Lufthansa (Germany), Boeing 707, International First Class (1960)

Lufthansa (Germany), Boeing 747-8, International First Class (2019)

Delta, Boeing 747, international First Class (1980)

Delta, Airbus A350, international Business/First Class (2019)

Let's not forget that Concorde was actually flying 30 years ago, daily flights from Paris (Air France) and London (British Airways) to New-York. Limited flight time : 3h30, speed : 1334 mph.

The planes were available for charter flights (Elisabeth Taylor, Michael Jackson and some corrupt presidents regularly chartered Concorde).

Concorde interior (single class, 100 seats). British Airways, 2000.

The aircraft flew from 1969 to 2003, when it was retired after the freak crash of the Paris-New York service that killed every passenger.

Concorde interior (single class, 100 seats). British Airways, 2000.

Concorde service was equivalent to international First Class, constrained by storage space. Here, an example from Air France (1990):

Concorde service, Air France (1990):

Queen Elisabeth official trip aboard Concorde (1977)

Queen Elisabeth official trip aboard Concorde (1977)

The demise of Ozark Airlines.

[quote]BA is still pretty good.

One of my worst flying experiences was with them, actually downright bizzare.

It once was so fun to take two Valiums, order a glass of wine and fire up a cigarette. Those nonsmoking Nazis ended that for me.

The proliferation of emotional support peacocks.

I've traveled a lot in the last 5 years and the only airline I'll do anything to avoid is Air Canada. Complete incompetence.

I always travel First Class...

hey DLers, do you need the email print out to check in? my printer is not working...

As long as I have the itinerary number and booking reference...that's OK, right? I'm flying to London. I've always printed out the confirmation email.

Before 1970 or so, air travel was relatively expensive, so few could afford to fly regularly. Now it's like traveling by bus with the steerage passengers from the TItanic.

Airline food was never the best but it used to be well presented. Now the tray of glop has no appeal.

[quote] It once was so fun to take two Valiums, order a glass of wine and fire up a cigarette. Those nonsmoking Nazis ended that for me.

You can still take Valium and drink wine.

R190, you can check in on your phone then take a screen shot of your boarding pass.

I would have love to been a flight attendant back in the 80s. Darlings, I woulda been a fkin whore. You know there were tons of hot, successful closet cases. Hopefully I wouldn't have caught the Monster.

[QUOTE] I'll do anything to avoid is Air Canada. Complete incompetence.

Cut them some slack, they're doing the best they can.

[quote]Now it's like traveling by bus with the steerage passengers from the TItanic.

Hey! Some of those passengers were a hell of a lot more fun than those stuffed shirts upstairs.

R194 = Patient Zero

Paying separately for everything. Carry on luggage, checked luggage, decent seats......

How close the seats are together now. The back of the next seat is right in front of your face. I felt claustrophobia for the first time in my life. I had to fight back a strong urge to get off the plane. Haven't flown since.

Julia Roberts. When a flight attendant asked her, "Miss, would you like a drink?" she shot back, "You KNOW who I am, and no, I don't want a fucking drink."

I say the lack of food on 4hour plus flights. I remember getting a breakfast kit during an early morning flight as a child. I through it was cool to get food, since my mother had already gotten us McDonalds before the flight. My brother and I were flying as unaccompanied minors, so my mother was just making sure she sent us off fed. As a child of divorce, it was sssoooo much easier for a parent or guardian to walk you to the gate.

Curb side check-in (may be back) was gone for a minute after 9/11, or maybe not popular at my airport. Cat drops you off, stand in a 3-5 person line, hand them your checked bag, move about your day. Better than everyone waiting in a massive line or those kiosks that only do half of the work before you have to go to another line to drop off the bag for check in. In Europe their kiosks are next to individual belts that will whisk the luggage away, no need for a second line or human interaction outside of special circumstances.

[quote]Cat drops you off

You just can't get good cats these days.

I don't know how things were 30 years ago, since I'm still in my 20s, but I find the general seating areas to be horrible. Some airports are stingy with the power outlets, other have the News blaring, as if anyone really wants to hear it, and the seating arrangements leave a lot to be desired. Don't get me started on airports without free wifi.

Airline seats are rarely cleaned, they are getting smaller, and why not be comfortable? As long as passenger outfits are appropriate in public, by the airline's standards, then it doesn't matter. Some of you make me laugh, expecting people to wear nicer clothes to sit in a dirty seat all to impress complete strangers that only want to get to their destination.

[R194] at work... how sweet indeed!

and another one...

nice hat

Air travel is now a living hell.

You have to pay for food on the plane and the food offerings at the airport are outrageously overpriced. $6 for a yogurt???

That’s a yogert, r208. It ain’t even the real thing!

13 bucks for beer.

The Concorde never made money. Not a very good example of anything.

"On average Concorde made and operating profit of £30-50 Million a year for British Airways in the boom years where many passengers were travelling first class. British Airways reportedly received £1.75 Billion in revenue for Concorde services against an operating cost of around £1 Billion." --- Even though the program ended up being profitable, the primary goal of Concorde was political (technological superiority for France and England over Russia and the US), prestige and practicality for businesses. Concorde flights were usually full all along (100 seats). Seats that were not occupied were paid for nonetheless by companies that bought seats on each flights. Price : $12.000 round trip from New York to Paris or London, or $1.5 to charter the whole plane.

^^^^ $1.5-2 million to charter the whole plane

Aren't they gonna bring back concord? A version of it? I read that somewhere...

Concorde could go supersonic only above oceans, as the sonic boom is notorious to break all windows on the path. Very noisy machine. Otherwise, it had to fly at the same speed as other airliners. Hence its commercial failure as only 14 models were produced (half for France, Half for England). On such a program, they would have needed to sell at least 250 models to break even, but that was not the goal. Today, such an adventure would happen only if profitability is guaranteed.

Joan Collins, regular flyer of Concorde

R214, indeed, new projects are already launched... The US has dropped the laws that prohibited Concorde flying supersonic over the US territory... "NASA is planning to test an X-59 QueSST prototype over major US cities in 2023. Three startups — Aerion, Spike Aerospace, and Boom Supersonic — are designing planes that would cut long flights in half. Last month, General Electric announced it would create a new supersonic passenger jet engine for Aerion."

"The demise of Ozark Airlines."

You said it.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Smaller and smaller seats, less and less leg room. Assholes not controlling their asshole children and screaming, shitting babies.

Flying used to be a dignified thing; now that they're turning it into mass transit, all the wrong kinds of people are on board.

Flying has been mass transit for a long time now. I'm just old enough to remember when flying was civilized.

I used to feel so excited before flying... now I just avoid it, gives me nightmares

I remember putting shirt and tie on to fly, because the experience of flying was so glamorous. Nowadays, some people get aboard in their pyjamas!

I have an airport lounge card through my bank, so I go in there before my flight and eat and drink, but I miss having a complimentary warm meal and glass of wine served aboard flights nowadays.

Swiss are my favourite airline.

Charge airlines for the damage they do to the atmosphere. The fares will go up. Fewer people will fly. Obnoxious mass tourism will drop.

Good.

No more free deck of cards.

I doubt that the people who miss dressing up for flights would actually want to do it now. Unless someone is going to a meeting, I doubt that many people were doing this in 1990. The food has been terrible for a long time. These threads always draw on the memories of paleo-gays and they often remember things being better than they really were. The big changes to air travel like less leg room came with deregulation in the early 80s.

I used to enjoy the flight and think of it as part of my vacation. I rarely travel now, mostly because unless you can afford first or business class flying is pure torture. Of course the torture begins at the airport but you can't even look forward to sitting back and relaxing on the plane because it has become a torture device in itself.

[quote]I doubt that the people who miss dressing up for flights would actually want to do it now.

Don't miss r223, r17, r105, et al.

So prissy eldergays miss donning their hats and gloves?

R223 here. I can remember flying from LHR to POS in 1986 in my suit an tie.

When I left the cabin of the BWIA TriStar and walked out into the humid Caribbean air, the wrinkles in my suit seem to just drop out by the time I got I to the terminal building.

Always make an effort nowadays, but no suit and tie, just slacks and a cardy.

I dress semi formal. By this I mean nice but comfortable. I can't carry off the slouchy grungy casual style. People are also more polite when you're dressed well. Except I could have sworn I was once squeezed gently when I was being patted down.

Well R321 I was dressed smart casual for a BHX to DAR via DXB flight a couple of years ago and I got pulled at check in and upgraded on all 4 segments.

I didn't ask, I was just polite at check-in.

R232 right. I've been upgraded quite a few times without ever asking. Otherwise I always give the least possible work and bother for the crew whenever I fly.

R233 I'm with you too. I do self check-in where I can and just seat myself quietly, enjoy the flight and get off.

I once got on a Swiss flight from GVA to BCN and I always book seat A33. Anyway, I sat there and a lady got on and told me I was in her seat. Because the gate staff had taken all of our boarding passes off of us, I wasn't gonna gonna cause a scene and argue, so I stood up and moved to the back of the aircraft until I could see her seat and sit there.

Well the chief stewardess saw me and came down the aisle and asked what was wrong, so I explained. She went back to her galley and then came back to me. "There's been a seat alteration sir. You're now in 1A. Enjoy your flight". It was very nice indeed.

No more trips to the cockpit.

I don't dress up and I've gotten plenty of complementary upgrades---I've simply flown a lot and a computer algorithm tells them to upgrade me. Don't flatter yourself R232, you're not that special.

All of the above plus the fact that more Chinese people are on planes.