Babes in Toyland, the band

Wasn't Bruise Violet about Courtney?

Kat Bjelland was just another person Courtney Love glommed onto into order to get whatever she could from her. In the infamous Vanity Fair article love dissed Bjelland, saying she "stole" from her "dresses...riffs...then she came after Kurt." It was all utter bullshit. I cannot understand why ANY of these people who were involved with Love (Bjelland, Billy Corgan, Kurt Cobain, Michael Stipe, Ed Norton) would want anything to do with her. I guess some people are attracted to train wreck personalities and find them "exciting."

Kat denied that it was about Courtney, R1, but the music video suggests otherwise IMO

I saw them about 3 times in the early 90's, also saw Hole pre-Cobain marriage. I always preferred BIT, but I still like to old Hole a lot. The video is all that I loved about them

I liked this cover

Love this track. I was always in awe of the fact that she'd speak in tongues in some of their songs. It inspired both amazement and terror. I'm not surprised to hear she suffered from mental illness later on. There was always something a bit "off" about her that seemed to be simmering under the surface.

I've always respected Kat for the fact that, unlike Courtney, she actually knew her way around a guitar. She can play, for real. Courtney is a mediocre guitarist at best, and doesn't even know how to mime chords anymore; and when she did play, she relied on Eric Erlandson to do most of the heavy lifting. Kat was committed to the instrument was capable of playing lead and rhythm; like Cobain in Nirvana, she was the sole guitarist in the band. Courtney gets points for being the better lyricist though. I never thought much of Kat as a writer/lyricist, but have always thought she had a unique, weird style of guitar playing that I've never seen from anyone else.

Saw them back in the day and was so excited to have backstage passes. Also saw them a few years ago and they were still damn good.

But it's so weird how Kat really isn't a celebrity, you know? Before the show she was hanging out in front of the venue, alone, smoking a cigarette, and no one even seemed to notice her. These were paying fans!

Babes were never nearly as mainstream as a band like Hole became R8. They were and still kind of are an underground band. Your anecdote is kind of depressing tbh; if I had seen her outside smoking I would've at least said hello. I wonder if people didn't recognize her because her hair is dyed black now.

I recall there being a bunch of drama a few years ago during that tour when they ousted Maureen Herman out of the band. That was a weird situation, especially since she was the one who had telegraphed their reunion.

Yeah, I'd really like to know more about what actually happened, R9. Was it just the drugs or what?

I love Ripe, it's one of my favorite songs ever. The EP "To Mother" is very solid. Something about their "rough around the edges" sound that I find absolutely bewitching. I don't know what made Michelle Leon leave the group but since her departure, I felt something was missing; still good but less so.

Michelle Leon left after he boyfriend was killed in a robbery.

That's truly tragic, r12. I had no idea! She was one of the few bassists that you can't take your eyes off when you see them performing. Her boyfriend was a cutie :(

Michelle's bf was roadie Joe Cole, who was shot to death in an armed robbery with Henry Rollins after leaving a Hole show in West Hollywood in 1991. Cole was a roadie/friend of Courtney Love; IIRC, Hole dedicated Live Through This to him. His murder was profiled on Unsolved Mysteries in the '90s and Rollins was interviewed on there.

Kat is, according to her sister, at least, currently dying of stage 4 liver failure, which is horrible. I have a cousin who died this way and it is a truly horrifying death—it's so painful and hideous that I would probably kill myself if I was resigned to it. Kat is a great guitarist and one hell of a screamer. She is one of those rare women who played hard and heavy. Courtney Love, by comparison, has always had a softer edge just beneath the surface of her noise, but Kat is pure hellfire and brimstone.

I haven't listened to enough of them to say if I'm a fan as such, but I do really like what I have heard ("Bruise Violet", "Handsome and Gretel", "Sweet '69", their cover of "We are Family"...). I remember seeing an interview with her where she talks about what sounds like a really tumultuous time when Courtney was in Babes in Toyland too. She ended by saying: "I like to play music. She likes to be famous." which probably sums it up pretty well.

I like Hole too though, so *shrugs*.

Found the interview:

I'm really sorry to hear that R15.

Bikini Kill was my queer teenage crush...Specifically Kathleen Hannah....She was one of the few who actually had/have a career and didn't become a train wreck

Great, R19. They have nothing to do with Babes in Toyland.

I’m so sad about Kat being terminally ill, I don’t know if I can ever listen to Babes In Toyland again. If I ever do, it’ll be years and years from now. Every day I brace myself for the bad news.

She did it to herself, though — she chose to medicate with hard drugs and alcohol, and now she can’t get on a waiting list for a liver transplant because she’s still an addict. All this time, I never would have guessed that she’d be the one to end up like this, while Courtney Love seems... relatively fine?

R20 I don't think alcohol was ever in Courtney's wheelhouse, though. She preferred heroin and opiates, which, as odd as it is, don't wreak as much havoc on the organs when they aren't combined with something else (such as alcohol). I think the most common cause of death with opiates is by and large overdose (which, it is surprising that Courtney never succumbed to one). It seems like Courtney has been intermittently sober over the years, too, where she's had significant periods of time where she was on the wagon; with Kat, it's hard telling because she hasn't really been in the public eye for some time. I am guessing that she has been both a longterm alcoholic and heroin addict—those two combined, for 3+ decades, is going to do a lot of damage. Genetics also play a factor, too. It's possible that Courtney is just more biologically resilient, I guess. It sucks. Kat is a one-of-a-kind.

I saw them twice in Seattle, back in the 90s. Always loved this band way more than Hole. I had Fontanelle on permanent play when that one came out. Such a great way to release all of my aggression while singing along stuck in traffic. I was a big L7 fan, too.

So sorry to hear of Kat's health declining.

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but Bikini Kill was a twee feminist performance artist troupe—they were barely a band, let alone in the same league as Babes in Toyland. Kat Bjelland channeled abject darkness, while Kathleen Hanna channeled cute zine ideas and, ultimately, a love spell that landed her a privileged life with one of the Beastie Boys.

R22 I've always found it interesting how Courtney, Jennifer Finch, and Kat Bjelland were all close friends/sometimes bandmates years before any of them had any success as musicians. Hole, L7, and Babes in Toyland were all sort of linked to some degree because of it.

Kat has this great voice where she can sound like a banshee and then like this cute, sweet girl. I always liked the way she would switch in something like "Sweet 69", for example.

R23, I do like how she is jumping around like a spaz in Sonic Youth's video clip, though.