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What are the snobbiest, blue-bloodiest private schools in the US and UK (which, I realize, are called public)?

dish please.

by Anonymousreply 283June 19, 2019 4:02 PM

Eton.

by Anonymousreply 1June 14, 2019 1:48 AM

Phillipe Andover and Exeter are the two most elite, snobby high schools in America. There are a lot of ritzy private schools, but they are the biggest names.

by Anonymousreply 2June 14, 2019 1:49 AM

Harvard-Westlake in LA.

by Anonymousreply 3June 14, 2019 1:50 AM

Eastland School For Girls

by Anonymousreply 4June 14, 2019 1:52 AM

Most elite prep schools in the US:

Groton

St. Paul's

Exeter

Andover (aka Phillips Academy)

Deerfield

Farmington (aka Miss Porter's)

Choate

I would also put Cate, and probably Robert Louis Stevenson, in this category, although many don't know about them since they are on the West Coast.

Every major US city has its elite private day school where the city's blue bloods have sent their children for decades (for example, Blake in Minneapolis and Lakeview in Seattle). But probably the snobbiest of all are in NYC:

Collegiate (for boys)

Dalton

Brearley (for girls)

Spence (for girls)

by Anonymousreply 5June 14, 2019 1:53 AM

The absolutely snobbiest *people* I have ever met are the graduates of Saint Louis Country Day.

And with very little reason, I feel qualified to say.

by Anonymousreply 6June 14, 2019 2:02 AM

Madeira in Virginia (girls school)

by Anonymousreply 7June 14, 2019 2:06 AM

***silent, freezing reaction to r6's post***

by Anonymousreply 8June 14, 2019 2:06 AM

R5 is a good list for blue bloodiest. But snobbiest would definitely have to be in CA. Harvard Westlake probably wins. West Coast schools seem to be more about wealth than education.

by Anonymousreply 9June 14, 2019 2:08 AM

Harvard-Westlake is very snobby within LA, but when you bring a Harvard-Westlake grad to any particularly strong college, he/she is looked down upon by the kids from the snobby East Coast schools, and he/she knows it.

The snobbiness of the St. Paul 's and Groton kids is unbelievable.

by Anonymousreply 10June 14, 2019 2:18 AM

You do understand that these schools are dominated by Jews, Asians and Indians. Blue bloods are few and far between.

Snobby? Maybe. Old money? No.

by Anonymousreply 11June 14, 2019 2:21 AM

R11 here

And apparently schools like Andover are full of the poors now.

Forty-seven percent of all students at Andover receive financial aid, with 13 percent of the student body receiving full financial aid.

So half of Andover can't be too snobby since they are on scholarship!

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by Anonymousreply 12June 14, 2019 2:25 AM

The Public Schools Act of 1868 codified the most prestigious boarding schools in the UK: Winchester, Eton, Rugby, Harrow,. Charterhouse, Shrewsbury, Westminster.

by Anonymousreply 13June 14, 2019 2:28 AM

Georgetown *hic* Prep

by Anonymousreply 14June 14, 2019 2:33 AM

Harrow in UK

by Anonymousreply 15June 14, 2019 2:43 AM

r7, Madiera had the notorious murderess Jean Harris as a headmistress. In the 1970's a bum named Gilreath murdered a girl there, got sprung from jail and murdered another girl there. There was a lake on the property called Black Pond which was the only skinny dipping place in the whole DC area. Tehn some asshole wrote it up in USA tToday, and that quickly ended.

by Anonymousreply 16June 14, 2019 2:43 AM

T7 and r16. While Madeira is better school, I would say Foxcroft is snobbier. Cornelia Guest and that crowd.

by Anonymousreply 17June 14, 2019 2:46 AM

R5. I would add Chapin to the nyc list.

by Anonymousreply 18June 14, 2019 2:46 AM

Everybody says the Fern Day School is so wonderful. But it really isn’t.

by Anonymousreply 19June 14, 2019 2:47 AM

^ the saying for the three best girls schools in NYC is:

Marry a Chapin girl.

A Brearley girl is the dr/obgyn who will deliver your babies.

Have an affair with a Spence girl.

by Anonymousreply 20June 14, 2019 2:48 AM

R14 Hey bud, what up

by Anonymousreply 21June 14, 2019 2:48 AM

r17, Elizabeth Bentley, who started the Red Witch Hunt of Alger Hiss and so many others, taught at Foxcroft.

by Anonymousreply 22June 14, 2019 2:49 AM

Keep in mind too that the snobbiest schools are not always necessarily the best.

by Anonymousreply 23June 14, 2019 2:50 AM

Did the Orangutan go to a prep school? Was it a good one?

by Anonymousreply 24June 14, 2019 2:51 AM

Le Rosey in Switzerland is super chic.

by Anonymousreply 25June 14, 2019 2:55 AM

R24 he attended New York Military Academy, which is a military prep school.

by Anonymousreply 26June 14, 2019 3:07 AM

Choate Rosemary Hall St Paul Farmington Groton Andover Phillips Academy Phillips Exeter Academy Harvard Westlake Chapin Collegiate Stuyvesant for the smarts - though I think it’s public but still has prestige Madeira Spence Brearley Eton Harrow Rugborough Westminster

That’s all I know.

by Anonymousreply 27June 14, 2019 3:19 AM

Chapin might be snobbier, but Brearley is better.

by Anonymousreply 28June 14, 2019 3:29 AM

O Dear(field) Academy

by Anonymousreply 29June 14, 2019 3:32 AM

All that, and they didn't teach you to punctuate, r27?

by Anonymousreply 30June 14, 2019 3:47 AM

No one has mentioned my alma mater yet. I’m crushed.

by Anonymousreply 31June 14, 2019 4:17 AM

Dallas: St. Mark's for boys and Hockaday for girls

by Anonymousreply 32June 14, 2019 4:23 AM

Harvard Westlake? Are you kidding??? There is nothing blue blood about it. The snobby blue blood school are all on the east coast. Harvard Westlake doesn't even compare to a mid level private school on the east coast. The person who listed HW prob thinks Angelenos are "classy." We've got great weather and great looking people but blue bloods and society folks with style and class are all on the east coast.

by Anonymousreply 33June 14, 2019 4:27 AM

R10–tell us more!

Snobby, how? Any good stories?

Also, how did you get into Yale from a regular public school? (I’m always fascinated by the particulars.)

Thanks!

by Anonymousreply 34June 14, 2019 4:32 AM

Who cares unless you plan on having kids?

by Anonymousreply 35June 14, 2019 4:33 AM

St. Ignatius in Chicago

by Anonymousreply 36June 14, 2019 4:35 AM

So true R23.

by Anonymousreply 37June 14, 2019 4:38 AM

Hotchkiss is a snobby boarding school that hasn't been mentioned. Also, Lawrenceville, Taft, and Milton.

by Anonymousreply 38June 14, 2019 4:50 AM

What's the difference between a military prep school and a normal prep school? Do you have to join the military after?

by Anonymousreply 39June 14, 2019 4:57 AM

Doesn't scholarship usually translate to extremely intelligent? A relative, a scientist, attended Oxford and IIRC, MIT. He was one of six kids. His parents were working class, they sure couldn't afford to send him or the rest of his siblings to those prestigious schools. All six kids have college degrees and are doing quite well.

No, they're not Asian, Jewish or South Asian. They're Irish, Italian and Scottish American, from Brooklyn when it wasn't filled with rich yuppies and hipsters..

by Anonymousreply 40June 14, 2019 5:10 AM

Campbell Hall in LA. Crossroads School in Santa Monica

by Anonymousreply 41June 14, 2019 5:12 AM

Hello?

by Anonymousreply 42June 14, 2019 5:15 AM

What about Horace Mann?

by Anonymousreply 43June 14, 2019 5:25 AM

And Fieldston?

by Anonymousreply 44June 14, 2019 5:26 AM

To those that went to any of the above schools, what was the real difference between a free public school located in an upper-middle class part of the city?

by Anonymousreply 45June 14, 2019 5:37 AM

When I attended my prep school, it was considered pretty snobby, back in the glory days of the all-male, mostly white institution, with only a few Jewish students. White shirts for dinner, dark suits on Sundays, chapel every day.

Graduated over 50 years ago.

by Anonymousreply 46June 14, 2019 5:40 AM

Crossroads? Campbell Hall? Oh, please.

by Anonymousreply 47June 14, 2019 5:56 AM

My brother went to Campbell Hall. It is really far from a blue-blood school. Just full of (showbiz) industry kids.

by Anonymousreply 48June 14, 2019 6:12 AM

R46. Cosima Von Bulow says hello!

by Anonymousreply 49June 14, 2019 6:17 AM

Upthread guy its Lakeside not Lakeview in Seattle. Many who got sent to boarding school say they won’t send their kids. Harrow in London I think is the rival to Eaton but don’t know which, if either, is better.

by Anonymousreply 50June 14, 2019 6:20 AM

Did the prep who said his wasn’t mentioned go to St. George’s?

by Anonymousreply 51June 14, 2019 6:21 AM

[quote]What's the difference between a military prep school and a normal prep school? Do you have to join the military after?

No, sometimes you can go into musical theatre.

by Anonymousreply 52June 14, 2019 6:23 AM

Crud I forgot Hotchkiss.

Don’t know what happened r30. I thought I was putting in the correct number of spaces to make a list, but alas, my idiot phone failed me.

Sorry.

by Anonymousreply 53June 14, 2019 6:27 AM

Isn’t it a bit odd that all the Midwestern cities have schools named Country Day? The above St. Louis Country Day And Kentucky Country Day spring to mind

by Anonymousreply 54June 14, 2019 6:44 AM

R50, Do you know the real reasons why former prep school alums won't send their offspring to their alma maters? Expense?

by Anonymousreply 55June 14, 2019 6:46 AM

There's a reason, R54. There was a Country Day School Movement. Basically, rich people left the dirty city for wealthy suburbs and created fancy schools where their kids could come home at night.

Kind of the private school version of what happened after WWII when middle class people left the dirty city for new suburbs and created higher quality public schools.

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by Anonymousreply 56June 14, 2019 7:36 AM

For all the prestige, advantages and architectural beauty of the major UK public schools, some former pupils admit they hated their time boarding. They don't want to inflict similar on their offspring.

Of course many parents don't specially like being around their children, and are only too glad to be free of them during term-time. The same types or others will stick with tradition, prestige, and class-conformism, and insist their sons board come, what may.

by Anonymousreply 57June 14, 2019 11:36 AM

We know it as Hot Kiss! (And big dongs.)

by Anonymousreply 58June 14, 2019 11:57 AM

R3 Harvard-Westlake in LA. Dara Torres went there.

by Anonymousreply 59June 14, 2019 12:04 PM

R48 my friend's kids went to Campbell Hall. Great school.

by Anonymousreply 60June 14, 2019 12:05 PM

Sidwell Friends (Quaker), Georgetown Prep (Catholic) and St. Albans (Episcopal) in D.C. excel in endowing the finest young men and young ladies with influential networks and a thorough knowledge of Christian tenets and how to shatter them to gain personal advantage.

by Anonymousreply 61June 14, 2019 12:11 PM

[Quote]what was the real difference between a free public school located in an upper-middle class part of the city?

These schools have real money. Places like Andover and Exeter have billion+ dollar endowments, and a lot of your student body is far wealthier than you would find in a public school.

by Anonymousreply 62June 14, 2019 12:14 PM

This thread is vert enlightening.

by Anonymousreply 63June 14, 2019 12:16 PM

*very

by Anonymousreply 64June 14, 2019 12:16 PM

Yeah, thanks to YOU, Rhoda at R19!

by Anonymousreply 65June 14, 2019 12:34 PM

I’m available for private tutoring!*

*under 15 only!

by Anonymousreply 66June 14, 2019 12:47 PM

I'm sorry, but for a private school to be elite it has to be on the east coast. Those of you mentioning Dallas and LA... and I saw something about St. Louis don't understand OP's question. I'm sure Harvard-Westlake is a nice school for LA, but don't put it in the same category as Exeter or Choate or Madeira or Miss Porter's.

by Anonymousreply 67June 14, 2019 12:59 PM

National Cathedral School for girls was about the snobbiest WASP exclusive school in DC. Don't know what it's like now though.

by Anonymousreply 68June 14, 2019 1:23 PM

Former West Coast prep here. I went to The Webb School for Boys, which at the time had a much better reputation than the Harvard School for Boys. The fact that Westlake had dances with us rather than Harvard says something about the Harvard School for Boys. However, none of the West Coast schools can hold a candle to the East Coast schools. For boys at least, it was common for a student to go to an West Coast school for three years and then finish their senior year at an East Coast school to have the bragging rights of an East Coast Education.

by Anonymousreply 69June 14, 2019 1:38 PM

R6, r8: Ellie Kemper attended the John Burroughs school, not MICD school. Jones Hamm was instructor there.instr

by Anonymousreply 70June 14, 2019 2:16 PM

If your family was a bit more on the bohemian side, Brewster Academy in Wolfeboro, NH

by Anonymousreply 71June 14, 2019 2:18 PM

Ann, how do you afford all of these designer fashions as an unemployed actress?

by Anonymousreply 72June 14, 2019 2:24 PM

Sorry, wrong thread @ R72

by Anonymousreply 73June 14, 2019 2:25 PM

I once went to a Christmas party and was introduced to someone who told me right away where he had gone to school before college.

It was my prep school, but he didn't know that, as I don't make such unsolicited pronouncements.

I asked which year he had graduated. He said he graduated my year.

Well, I was the yearbook editor and knew he was lying.

That was the first time I became aware that people lie by name-dropping prestigious schools they did not attend.

I didn't call him on it because it seemed rather sad.

by Anonymousreply 74June 14, 2019 2:26 PM

R46 Did they make the Jewish kids go to Chapel too?

by Anonymousreply 75June 14, 2019 2:27 PM

Some rich bohos in my Ivy / 7 Sisters set had gone to Northfield Mount Hermon.

Le Rosey was THE chicest origin - huge plutocrat fortunes, titles, the most jet set, etc. Le Rosey is solid academically but not more than that.

by Anonymousreply 76June 14, 2019 2:30 PM

My freshman roommate attended the Francis Parker School in Chicago. Apparently, midwesterners consider it elite.

by Anonymousreply 77June 14, 2019 2:41 PM

Sheboygan Conservatory

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by Anonymousreply 78June 14, 2019 2:44 PM

The George School is where trust fund kids in Philly get sent, and is known for being elite in the tri state area, perhaps beyond? It’s produced some of the most entitled assholes I’ve ever met.

by Anonymousreply 79June 14, 2019 2:52 PM

Maybe a different thread, but wouldn't gay sex be rampant in all male boarding schools?

by Anonymousreply 80June 14, 2019 2:59 PM

Lake Forest Academy

by Anonymousreply 81June 14, 2019 3:02 PM

R80, not in my experience. Quite the opposite. Most guys a petrified of anything remotely "Gay". I always laugh at the "towel dance" treads on DL. The towel dance was common at school. Some guys would shower either really early, really late, or at an odd time so no one would see them in the shower.

by Anonymousreply 82June 14, 2019 3:03 PM

R79 - I know I whole family of siblings that went to George School - OLD money but Quakers (its a Quaker School) and they are the nicest, most earnest and contributing people o know. They’re all very hard-working and live unassuming lives.

by Anonymousreply 83June 14, 2019 3:03 PM

If were talking Chicago, shouldn't the Laboratory School be on the list?

by Anonymousreply 84June 14, 2019 3:04 PM

R82, interesting. Where do guys jerk off at boarding school?

by Anonymousreply 85June 14, 2019 3:05 PM

[R75]: Of course, all students were required to attend chapel every day, including any that were Jewish. I remember, when we were all supposed to kneel, seeing them sitting where they were, upright, eyes open, presumably tolerant. There were only about 7 or 8 at any one time, in various forms. Apparently, the headmaster's blue blood New Englander first wife had a penchant for anti-Semitism. After she died, more were admitted, as well as the first black student, who was actually in my class.

(What was funny was that the students rebelled against the system by carving all sorts of obscenities on the pews, which regularly had to be sanded off and refinished, especially before any official visits from outsiders.)

The experience of boarding school is indelible on my psyche. Though the academic education was excellent, the emotional support was virtually nil. You survived by developing a sort of posse of guys you hung out with: the jocks, the nerds, the theater types, the science geeks, the rebels. At one point, I remember standing in chapel, singing some hymn, and realizing that, though my fellows were gradually growing into the bodies of men, inside they were all the edgy, needy boys they were when they first came there. Myself included, of course.

On the other hand, when I attended college at B.U., though I spent most of my time acting in productions over at Harvard, I remained on Dean's List at B.U. Though I hardly ever attended classes, prep school had ground into me how to study for exams, and how to write essays. Q.E.D....

by Anonymousreply 86June 14, 2019 3:12 PM

No "The" in George School, r79. And I concur, r83--not with the specific family, obviously, but GS tends to attract and nurture good people.

by Anonymousreply 87June 14, 2019 3:28 PM

Stephen Sondheim went to George School; so did Blythe Danner.

by Anonymousreply 88June 14, 2019 3:30 PM

[quote] Harrow in London I think is the rival to Eaton but don’t know which, if either, is better.

It is Eton, not Eaton.

by Anonymousreply 89June 14, 2019 3:35 PM

Bill & Ted went to San Dimas High School.

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by Anonymousreply 90June 14, 2019 3:38 PM

Crossroads (from what I have heard and judging from the people I know who went there) is rife with Max Landis types. Dumb, rich, substance abuse problems into the next universe, and entitled.

Michael Bay went there. QED.

by Anonymousreply 91June 14, 2019 3:50 PM

What's funny is that the entitled young students at Mary Institute/Country Day School in the tony suburb of Ladue, MO would feel that they are the true elites, because in their minds, Saint Louis is the center of the universe.

by Anonymousreply 92June 14, 2019 4:07 PM

Punahou Marlborough School in LA

by Anonymousreply 93June 14, 2019 4:09 PM

In the UK Eton is the premier public school. For Roman Catholics, it is Ampleforth (Benedictine) or Stonyhurst (Jesuit). The Dukes of Norfolk traditionally went to the former. Charles Carroll (signatory to the Declaration of Independence) attended the latter, when it was still on the Continent.

by Anonymousreply 94June 14, 2019 4:11 PM

Oldfields, MD no mention?

by Anonymousreply 95June 14, 2019 4:14 PM

I applied to get into George but was rejected. Alas!

by Anonymousreply 96June 14, 2019 4:34 PM

So where did you go?

by Anonymousreply 97June 14, 2019 4:42 PM

Hackley School, in Tarrytown, NY. It's the oldest private school in the state. Not sure how the academics compare to city private schools though.

by Anonymousreply 98June 14, 2019 4:56 PM

I just looked at the Hackley website. It doesn't stress academics, which is kind of refreshing. And the campus is beautiful (George School isn't, especially).

by Anonymousreply 99June 14, 2019 5:05 PM

Rye Country Day, I believe, the last time I checked, was the top rated private school in N.Y..

by Anonymousreply 100June 14, 2019 5:13 PM

I don't think Rye Country Day outranks Horace Mann. Or Dalton or Brearley. Maybe it's top ranked in Westchester.

by Anonymousreply 101June 14, 2019 5:15 PM

Northfield Mt. Hermon

by Anonymousreply 102June 14, 2019 5:23 PM

I see Bennett Day School's big letters when I travel south on Interstate 90/94 South through Chicago.

I was curious so I googled it. Wow. K-12 . $28,818 tuition.

If they want to be perceived as elite (and, perhaps they don't), they should get rid of the big sign. That way a poor hayshaker like me wouldn't dare to even believe I could set eyes on it.

by Anonymousreply 103June 14, 2019 5:28 PM

Philly area had some of the most “blue blooded” schools - though generally not as snobby as a lot do the other East Coast prep schools because of the Quaker influence. Westtown, the Friends schools, George School. Episcopal, Haverford and Shipley /Agnes Irwin were probably the most “snobby” - and least Quaker. Philadelphia Story is a good insight into Philly blue bloods - not as uptight as New England or as elitist as DC. True of the city too - much more democratic and egalitarian than NY, Boston or DC. And some of the best public schools in the US.

by Anonymousreply 104June 14, 2019 6:04 PM

[quote] I don't think Rye Country Day outranks Horace Mann. Or Dalton or Brearley. Maybe it's top ranked in Westchester.

Do you mean socially or academically? Again, we are talking about two different things here, and Horace Mann is so different from Rye Country Day, Dalton and Brearley that comparing them is a case of apples and oranges.

Horace Mann is one of the "selective public" schools in New York City: among the others are Stuyvesant, Bronx School of Science, and Hunter College High School. They have many of the smartest kids (and the best teachers) in NYC, but it is rare that wealthy kids attend them since they are not considered socially exclusive (any kid smart enough to get in can go for free): wealthy parents in NYC are much more likely to send their kids to private schools--either prep schools, or expensive private day schools like Dalton and Collegiate and Spence.

Also, as has been said many times, remember that the snootiest private schools are not always considered the best academically. For example, among girls' private schools in NYC, Spence and Chapin and Nightingale are considered the snootiest, but Brearley is usually considered to be better than them academically (it's also elite and expensive, but the emphasis there is really on academic achievement).

by Anonymousreply 105June 14, 2019 6:12 PM

R103/Della/hayshaker mama, that tuition IS totally appalling. I'd much rather be amazed than appalled.

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by Anonymousreply 106June 14, 2019 6:15 PM

I wouldn't consider any of the LA schools blue-blood or even all that academically elite. Crossroads, as others have pointed out, is for rich dumb-dumbs, druggies and misfits who wouldn't be able to get a HS diploma otherwise. Crystal Springs Uplands and Castilleja in NorCal are more monied and more academic, but they aren't blue-blood either. Have to look East or in the UK for that. When I went to college, the snootiest, most blue blood (though not necessarily the smartest) kids were from Choate and St. Paul's.

by Anonymousreply 107June 14, 2019 6:16 PM

Trinity is top-ranked.

by Anonymousreply 108June 14, 2019 6:52 PM

[quote]Horace Mann is one of the "selective public" schools in New York City:

You are a moron.

by Anonymousreply 109June 14, 2019 6:53 PM

Ethical Culture, Friends Seminary

by Anonymousreply 110June 14, 2019 7:15 PM

When I was at prep school north of Boston in the 60’s, only East Coast schools, and colleges, were taken seriously. The only schools on the West Coast that meant anything were Stamford and, maybe, UCLA, and no prep schools.

Once, when I was living in San Diego, some guy told me how wonderful Pepperdine and the Claremont Colleges were. I’d never heard of either of them. He was aghast.

by Anonymousreply 111June 15, 2019 1:56 AM

Stamford?

by Anonymousreply 112June 15, 2019 1:59 AM

I went to Lakeside in Seattle. Back in my day, the 70s, it was about half the kids of the local elite and half the kids of professionals who wanted their children to have the best education. I went from there to Stanford and sailed through my classes there as my prep school classes had been, for the most part, harder.

by Anonymousreply 113June 15, 2019 2:03 AM

R75, I remember reading about a Jesuit prep school (not blue-bloodiest) with one Jewish student. He was expected to attend chapel but not expected to believe, just learn. I also remember they weren't allowed to write in blue ink as that was too informal.

I wish I'd had a more rigorous education. I certainly wish I were a better, more disciplined writer.

by Anonymousreply 114June 15, 2019 2:21 AM

anyone know where the Trumpets went? i know one went to The Hill School in Pottstown, PA

by Anonymousreply 115June 15, 2019 2:24 AM

Francis Parker was too liberal to be "elite." Chicago Latin and Chicago Lab had a better reputation, as did North Shore Country Day and even National College of Education. In the Midwest generally, however, private schools were not considered as good as the best public schools. None of the above were considered in a class with New Trier, even socially. It is similar throughout the Midwest, even in St. Louis.

The South's private schools are mainly prized for whiteness and it most states are considered middling to poor -- only there are no good public schools to compete with either. . Westminster in Atlanta has big plans but it's kind of mediocre now. I'd say Florida has some of the best small private schools nobody ever heard of.

by Anonymousreply 116June 15, 2019 2:25 AM

National Cathedral School in DC has a reputation amongst the other all girl schools as being very snobby and there are plenty of very elite private schools in the DC area.

by Anonymousreply 117June 15, 2019 2:27 AM

Thanks to all of the previous contributors, especially those explaining the true advantages & disses of elite schools.

by Anonymousreply 118June 15, 2019 2:36 AM

R111, same. Never heard of the Claremonts colleges although I had heard of Pepperdine bc of Battle of The Network Stars lol. I grew up back east and schools in California just don't compare. Aside from Stanford and Cal Tech, nothing is elite. Apparently there's a "good" college out here called Harvey Mudd? I thought that was a joke...like Elmer Fudd college lol

by Anonymousreply 119June 15, 2019 2:43 AM

I grew up amongst New England schools, most of which have been mentioned. I’m in Virginia now, so there’s Foxcroft, Madeira, Woodberry Forest, and Episcopal High Scool in Alexandria. My sister went to St. Timothy’s in MD, which gets honorable mention.

by Anonymousreply 120June 15, 2019 2:50 AM

R119, Harvey Mudd IS one of the Claremont colleges.

by Anonymousreply 121June 15, 2019 2:53 AM

I went to Madeira and was there during the Jean Harris murder scandal. It happened over our spring break and it was mind-blowing to see our tough but proper headmistress in handcuffs on the national evening news. (Just hearing Peter Jennings say her name was surreal. ABC reporter Lynn Sherr covered the story for months) The media kept saying what an exclusive school Madeira was and, yes, there were some extremely wealthy girls there but most were from upper middle class families (not billionaires) and several were on work - study scholarships. No different from a lot of private schools today. Some of the wealthiest girls dressed in old jeans and were very under the radar.

It certainly wasn't a finishing school environment. Quite the opposite. (One of the alums was Katherine Graham of The Washington Post family and she was a big proponent of women breaking the glass ceiling, ) To me there was a sort of "Gloria Steinam" ( Hillary) feel to the campus. We had some debutantes but more often than not most girls were the athletic or "Hillary" type. We didn't have classes on Weds and either interned at a local business ( or on Capital Hill for Jr year for a Congressman or Senator).

The murder of the girl in the woods on campus happened a few years before I got there. The rumor was that she was found tied to a tree. We had roll call at the start of every class and if someone wasn't there they would immediately go looking for you. In hindsight, what strikes me as so odd is that the dorm that I was in one year had no adult on site. They wd lock the dorms at night so we couldn't get out but we had no adult supervision in the dorm other than an 18 year old student Head of the dorm. (There was an adult on site for my other years at the school) We ha d lacrosse games with Sidw ell (where the Obama girls went) and Sat night dances with Episcopal and Woodberry. Seems like a million years ago. I don't have much to show for going there and live a quiet middle class life.

by Anonymousreply 122June 15, 2019 3:30 AM

Salisbury

Kent

by Anonymousreply 123June 15, 2019 3:43 AM

[quote]The murder of the girl in the woods on campus happened a few years before I got there. The rumor was that she was found tied to a tree.

I read about this on DL a couple of years ago, so creepy.

by Anonymousreply 124June 15, 2019 5:23 AM

Also re: Madeira, a former co-worker who always seemed like a regular girl to me turns out to be an alumna. Impressive to a hick like me.

(Although they didn’t teach her to write very well, if I’m being honest.)

by Anonymousreply 125June 15, 2019 5:28 AM

Pretty amusing that nothings up thread are shitting on Harvard-Westlake. Not only would you never get in, you could never afford it.

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by Anonymousreply 126June 15, 2019 5:53 AM

Whomoever keeps shitting on Harvard Westlake doesn't know anything about the school.

by Anonymousreply 127June 15, 2019 8:16 AM

R126, Why are you saying that if we were the correct age we still could not get in to Harvard - Westlake, other than the issue of choosing to spend the money for a private school.

by Anonymousreply 128June 15, 2019 8:33 AM

r105, your classification of Horace Mann as an "elite public school" is going to come as a huge shock to the families who've been paying $40K/year in tuition. And in terms of ranking, I was responding to the poster who claimed that Rye Country Day is the top-ranked independent school in NY--I assumed he meant academically, and I just don't think it's possible that that perfectly good school outranks Horace Mann, Brearley, Dalton, and a number of other NYC private schools. I'd say the same thing if we were talking about social rank/blue blood/snobbiest.

r117, NCS does have a problem with snobbishness/elitism/cliqueishness among the students, but academically it's very rigorous and on a par with Sidwell (which has its own problems with entitled students/parents).

Surprised nobody's mentioned St. Ann's in Brooklyn.

by Anonymousreply 129June 15, 2019 11:46 AM

R126, tuition has nothing to do with social or academic rank. However, the current tuition of the Webb Schools is $47, 035.00 for day students and $66, 130.00 for boarding students.

by Anonymousreply 130June 15, 2019 12:14 PM

[quote]National Cathedral School in DC has a reputation amongst the other all girl schools as being very snobby and there are plenty of very elite private schools in the DC area.

A friend of mine and her older sister went to NCS. The youngest found the social scene so intense she transferred to a boarding school. Even though she was very popular. But there was a great deal of cruelty that was expected if you were top tier socially and my friend just hated it. I think it's a lot like Miss Porter's in that socially you have to be very tough and able to withstand and dish out a lot of bitchiness.

Anyway, she transferred to a boarding school that had Contessas and Barons and other European royalty (can't remember the name) and she was happy as a clam. Which tells you something about the degree of snottiness at NCS.

by Anonymousreply 131June 15, 2019 12:26 PM

R131, Any explanation as to why private schools tolerate such a total lack of real class among students? Surprised there aren't attempted suicides, drug abuse, eating disorders, etc and serious scandals. Or are they all covered up?

Since such behavior would not be tolerated in today's SJW workforce one would think it's the duty of teachers and principals to monitor inappropriate behavior much more closely. Yes I've been told that scholarship students and minorities have long been socially ostracized at certain schools. Tragic.

by Anonymousreply 132June 15, 2019 12:44 PM

Who says there aren't attempted suicides, drug problems, eating disorders? These issues exist everywhere.

r131, the daughters of several friends attended NCS in the late 90s. Both had the experience you describe. Social cruelty is a blood sport there, and although they could have survived, they and their parents ultimately concluded that it wasn't healthy or worthwhile to engage.

by Anonymousreply 133June 15, 2019 12:50 PM

In Paris, the snobbiest elite schools are Henri IV and Louis Legrand.

by Anonymousreply 134June 15, 2019 12:51 PM

My grandfather went to Mount Herman. He sent my father there, and my aunts to sister school Northfield. Then I went there, along with my cousins after the two schools merged and became coed. It was one of the largest prep schools until the Northfield campus was sold and the whole thing was consolidated at Mount Herman. I actually loved it and thrived there. It wasn't until years later, when I started thinking back on it, that the strangeness of the place began to sink in.

NMH is definitely not in the top echelon of private boarding schools, but it still has a pretty amazing list of alumni. I think that's one of the distinctions about these places. Kids from all over the world are sent to these schools and there are a finite number of them. The parents of the full paying students are exceptional for one thing or another, and the scholarship students are usually exceptional for their own ability to swim in a new arena. DL faves Uma Thurman and Laura Linney both attended, as did Bette Davis!

But the really surreal part was the group of students from the real 1%. My family had money, but not anything like what I was exposed to when I attended NMH. I went from being the rich kid at home to the poor kid at prep school. And in retrospect that was probably a good thing.

The really rich kids, the ones from families of industrialists and DC politicos were often very fucked up. One girl was expelled -her father was the CEO of a Fortune 500 company - and she left the school by helicopter. It landed on a sports field, and before it took off she threw the contents of a couple of suitcases on field while screaming obscenities at onlookers. Another kid broke into the infirmary, stole a bottle of Demerol, and spent a Friday night getting his entire dorm high.

There were also the international students. They invariably broke every rule in the book, but were never punished. It was too complicated to enforce rules and expel kids back to Dubai. And they not only had money, but spent it there. They'd pay townspeople to keep their Mercedes convertibles in private garages and take off for Boston and NYC every weekend. I was the head of my dorm my senior year, and one of the international students had one of the big audio visual places from Boston come in a couple weeks before school started and outfit his room with every conceivable type of high end sound and video equipment. For one year. When he graduated he left it all behind.

It was definitely an interesting part of my growing up.

by Anonymousreply 135June 15, 2019 12:54 PM

Mount Herman? Oh, dear.

by Anonymousreply 136June 15, 2019 12:55 PM

r135, the education there must suck if you can't even spell the name of your school.

by Anonymousreply 137June 15, 2019 12:56 PM

HAH! Well, I really do miss my personal editor.

by Anonymousreply 138June 15, 2019 12:57 PM

Be nice guys, I told you it wasn't top echelon.

by Anonymousreply 139June 15, 2019 12:58 PM

Isn't Horace Mann School badly tainted by at least one sex-abuse scandal?

by Anonymousreply 140June 15, 2019 1:39 PM

R133, Of course I realize social problems exist everywhere. Perhaps you misunderstood my post. I was questioning why the faculty and staff of private schools didn't quickly intervene and act to prevent social cruelty and ostracism. Easy to see a potential disaster with outside media exposure and lawsuits if things went way too far.

by Anonymousreply 141June 15, 2019 1:44 PM

R141, because it is expected and preferred. The head lady at Miss Porter's said as much when there was an article done about them for Vanity Fair. I don't know what the value of it is, but I guess graduates are expected to run in elite circles and there is always a lot of cruelty there too. So how can you succeed if you haven't been exposed to such a situation in your early years. That's my guess anyway/ She are looked down upon if you can't handle it.

by Anonymousreply 142June 15, 2019 1:54 PM

*A student is looked down upon if they can't handle it.

by Anonymousreply 143June 15, 2019 1:55 PM

r142 is not r133; I am. But I think he's probably right. The girls are expected to work these things out on their own. Some do, some leave, some stay and are very unhappy, and some thrive (and those who thrive are not necessarily awful people as adults).

by Anonymousreply 144June 15, 2019 2:05 PM

R134: American posters might not know that both are 100% free public schools.

by Anonymousreply 145June 15, 2019 2:12 PM

The Thacher School in Ojai--"most elite" prep school in California, less blue blood and more Hollywood types.

by Anonymousreply 146June 15, 2019 2:36 PM

I often wonder about this, and I don't think anyone's addressed it. Namely, are the teachers in really elite prep schools superb? Smart, demanding, and inspiring? That's always been my fantasy--as someone who went to a pretty good public school, I can only remember one teacher in four years who was terrific. Maybe it's this way in private schools too....I'd very much like to hear about the quality of instruction.

by Anonymousreply 147June 15, 2019 2:52 PM

R142 - R144, Thank you for your honest answers. However I've always thought such cruelty was the polar opposite of true class. I've known those who went to West Coast private schools such as the ones previously mentioned and thankfully they rejected such snobbery as being a characteristic of the nouveau riche.

Also knew a grad of Bronx Science who was proud of her educational advantage, especially being Black and graduating in 1974.

by Anonymousreply 148June 15, 2019 3:04 PM

In Virginia, old aristo horsey types go to Foxcroft (girls) and Woodberry Forest (boys). Beto O'Rourke went to Woodberry.

by Anonymousreply 149June 15, 2019 3:11 PM

Yes, in my experience (myself and my children) many of the teachers in elite prep schools are really first rate. On the other hand, there are plenty in public schools who are equally smart and dedicated. I think it can be a huge advantage for a kid who's bright and motivated--completely apart from the snob appeal or social advantages that might accrue.

by Anonymousreply 150June 15, 2019 3:13 PM

Class size can be quite an advantage. I went to a prep school in CA, and never had more than 8 or 10 in any of them.

by Anonymousreply 151June 15, 2019 3:20 PM

accessibility to faculty is also an advantage for the students, as are enrichment courses that public schools can't afford to offer. And teachers can teach more creatively/effectively if they're dealing principally with kids who are smart and want to learn (prep schools will de-select where they can, although they all have legacies who may be iffy).

by Anonymousreply 152June 15, 2019 3:25 PM

The Lawrenceville School, just outside of Princeton. My first college room mate was from St. Paul's> He was an idiot freak.

by Anonymousreply 153June 15, 2019 3:26 PM

Crossroads is a joke. Elliot Gould's son Sammy went there and smoked pot all day long and fucked everything in sight.

by Anonymousreply 154June 15, 2019 3:29 PM

At Madeira our class sizes were small, no more than 20 people in the classroom. (And often around 15 people) That alone makes a huge difference in the quality of mentoring you can get. Instructors were solid in their backgrounds, some more than others There was a strong expectation that you would follow thru on homework assignments and do your best. it was expected that most students would be going to tier 1 or 2 schools. (Of course we had some students that went to state univ) We got a LOT of mentoring and attention. If you were struggling in any area your guidance counselor would be right on it and get you tutoring. Lots of PSAT and SAT prep. The college counselor was extremely thoughtful in helping me pick out colleges that would be a good fit for me and very invested in me personally as well.

We were exposed to so much (you could sign up for a field trip to the Kennedy Center to see Barishnikov dance or intern for a senator or at a place like NPR ). The social and professional connections were there for the ambitious students. You were 1 to 3 degrees away from someone who was tight with the Kennedys, or whose father was a high ranking exec at a Fortune 100 company or NBC, etc. A girl in your class could be the daughter of the head of Pepsi Cola, or from a publishing family that put out Nat Geographic, etc. We even had a couple of Rockefellers. But when you're with these people all day and live with them in a dorm on a small campus, they just become another classmate that you either become close with or at least establish a passing relationship. The alumnae could also be helpful in getting you closer access to people/internships/interviews.

When they say "youth is wasted on the young" I have to painfully agree. I look back at all the advantages scholastically, socially and professionally that could have been seeded during that time that I wasted. So many girls went on to top schools (Ivy League, UVA, Dartmouth, Vandy, etc) and it was considered the norm. We were all ordinary people in a very advantageous environment but you don't always realize that until much later.

by Anonymousreply 155June 15, 2019 3:33 PM

For smaller cities/states in the Southeast: St. Christopher's in Richmond. Webb in Tennessee. Westminster in Atlanta. Bolles in Jacksonville, Fla. Newman in NOLA.

by Anonymousreply 156June 15, 2019 3:55 PM

I don't know many people from New Orleans any more, but I did at one time and they all went to Newman, or to a talented/gifted public school whose name I can't remember. But the Newman people had a great deal more poise/polish than the others.

by Anonymousreply 157June 15, 2019 3:58 PM

Cranbrook in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan. Romney went there. I went to another school and everyone hated Cranbrook boys.

by Anonymousreply 158June 15, 2019 4:01 PM

Get a whiff of r126!

by Anonymousreply 159June 15, 2019 4:11 PM

R104

My cousin, a Haverford grad, taught at Penn Charter. Is that at all noteworthy?

I went to a K - 8 in NJ where we had to shake hands with the headmaster at the end of the day lined up on the staircase of the building that was originally a mansion. Girls curtseyed and boys bowed. "Chapel" was Assembly each morning where Jewish kids sang the hymns.

by Anonymousreply 160June 15, 2019 4:17 PM

Fight harder, fight harder, Penn Charter, Penn Charter. (chanted in the voice of Tracy Lord)

by Anonymousreply 161June 15, 2019 4:30 PM

R155 Dartmouth is Ivy League, my dear.

by Anonymousreply 162June 15, 2019 4:32 PM

Penn Charter is good - should be better given it’s age but it’s location isnt great. Germantown Friends had a similar issue - but moved out of the inner city Germantown area to a safer, wealthier suburb. Lots of super smart Haverford grads teaching at the local schools - especially the Quaker ones. Part of the strength of the Philly area schools - lots of well educated but non-capitalist college grads.

by Anonymousreply 163June 15, 2019 4:39 PM

^Now Penn Charter is known as The Goldbergs school - because the guy who developed /writes it went there and uses a lot of local Philly trivia in the show. Very egalitarian - and I think one of the oldest schools in America.

by Anonymousreply 164June 15, 2019 4:43 PM

Newman had to create a football team for the Manning boys.

by Anonymousreply 165June 15, 2019 4:46 PM

As the name sort of suggests, the school was chartered by William Penn. Both it and George School (and probably the other Quaker schools in the area) get a lot of faculty from Haverford, which is always a good thing.

by Anonymousreply 166June 15, 2019 4:52 PM

R149. Didn’t realize Beto went to Woodberry, another thing to like about him. I know so many Woodberry grads, even lived with a few, without an exception they’ve been great guys.

by Anonymousreply 167June 15, 2019 5:11 PM

wherever Matt Damon's ass was

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by Anonymousreply 168June 15, 2019 6:09 PM

R141 because you don’t send kids to prep schools to learn about egalitarian principles. Old-fashioned attitude or not, these schools mold kids into “leadership material”. That leadership styles and the face of who is qualified to lead has changed, but the bottom line is these schools teach you to stand up straight and hold your chin up and know deep down, you’re a LOT luckier than the rest of the world so act like it. It creates a ferocious environment that you’re expected to survive.

by Anonymousreply 169June 15, 2019 7:09 PM

Chapin, Buckley, NCS, St. Paul’s and Groton. Still that WASPiest and snobbiest. Andover and Exeter have more the atmosphere of a really good public high school. Same with Horace Mann and Trinity — they’re top top schools but they aren’t preppy. Horace Mann especially — it’s JAP central and instead of being socially competitive the parents all compete for who spends the most money on SAT tutors. $800/hour Arun Allagapan tutors all the Horace Mann kids (and incidentally, he also tutored Natalie Portman and Diana Ross,s kids).

by Anonymousreply 170June 15, 2019 7:22 PM

Interesting to read all those posts about social cruelty at NCS. I went to its brother school - St. Albans - and while there was certainly some bullying and plenty of cliquishness, I don’t remember a whole lot of outright cruelty.

And although some of my classmates ended up in hedge-fund management, corporate law, and other typical 1%-er occupations, many others pursued academic or non-profit careers. My family was solidly middle-class and made huge sacrifices to send me there, but this was the 1970s, when ordinary people could (just barely) afford tuition without scholarship assistance.

by Anonymousreply 171June 15, 2019 7:31 PM

R131, Stoneridge is very good about keeping the social cruelty at a minimum but maybe that has to do with it being a Catholic school and part of Sacred Heart. NCS, Stoneridge and Holton Arms girls all seem to hate each other however lol.

R171, times have changed since the 70's and girls are far more catty than boys at that age.

by Anonymousreply 172June 15, 2019 7:41 PM

I wonder if the difficulties at NCS are more recent, or spoken about more openly now. The girls I knew were there in the mid- late 90s, and came in at middle school or high school from a private day school on Capitol Hill. They were not warmly welcomed. Possibly because they weren't lifers; possibly because the Hill is an entirely different planet than upper NW.

by Anonymousreply 173June 15, 2019 7:46 PM

R169, correct. I went to a public high school which was a joke but my nieces and nephews have all gone to elite private schools in the DC area. I'm amazed at the advantages they have had with that level of care and education. They were all lucky in that they did take advantage of those opportunities and had parents that were engaged. All are attending Ivy or top tier schools and will, likely go on to grad school. If you have the means, private schools are the way to go. I do quite well for myself but often wonder what I would have accomplished had I gone to a private school.

by Anonymousreply 174June 15, 2019 7:49 PM

Don't know much about the West but East is Collegiate, Dalton, Spence, Chapain, Brearley and Nightingale.

Brearley does have a high academic focus. Isn't is said Spence girls date doctors, Chapain girls marry doctors and Brearley girls become doctors?

And Horace Mann and Trinity are excellent but I don't think they're considered "snobby"

by Anonymousreply 175June 15, 2019 7:52 PM

Andover, Exeter, Choate, Kent, Hotchkiss, Loomis Chafee, and the Independent School League. (See Link.)

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by Anonymousreply 176June 16, 2019 2:44 AM

What kind of reputation does Marymount high school in LA have? What about the Buckley school?

by Anonymousreply 177June 16, 2019 6:47 AM

Marymount's reputation went right in the shitter when they let in the Kardashians.

by Anonymousreply 178June 16, 2019 8:19 AM

R178 It's also where Lori Loughlin's insta-ho daughter Olivia Jade went (before she bought her way into USC), so yeah, it's a joke.

by Anonymousreply 179June 16, 2019 8:32 AM

Are the kardashians typical of the intake of Marymount?

by Anonymousreply 180June 16, 2019 8:35 AM

No, Mia Farrow went there, Marlo Thomas, a couple of the Skakel girls, Giada.

by Anonymousreply 181June 16, 2019 8:43 AM

I could swear that my friend---the one who hated NCS--ended up at Hotchkiss, a school she loved.

by Anonymousreply 182June 16, 2019 12:33 PM

Scunthorpe Comprehensive school.

by Anonymousreply 183June 16, 2019 12:45 PM

Lausanne is probably the most elite school in Memphis.

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by Anonymousreply 184June 16, 2019 1:39 PM

Which private schools are scams?

by Anonymousreply 185June 16, 2019 1:41 PM

Scams? In what sense?

by Anonymousreply 186June 16, 2019 1:45 PM

I mean like the prestigiously named "Westminster Academy" in South Florida, which is a fundamentalist Christian school that teaches its students that the world is only thousands of years old and that dinosaurs are mythological creatures. But it comes disguised as a fancy prep school.

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by Anonymousreply 187June 16, 2019 1:58 PM

Yikes.

None of the schools mentioned in this thread are scams. They're all well-established, accredited schools.

by Anonymousreply 188June 16, 2019 2:01 PM

Meanwhile, R184, there is the Collège Champittet which is in a suburb of Lausanne, Switzerland. Educating despot spawn for over a century.

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by Anonymousreply 189June 16, 2019 2:02 PM

In any case, Westminster Academy may be ridiculous, but it's pretty upfront in stating its appalling philosophy. How is that a scam?

by Anonymousreply 190June 16, 2019 2:03 PM

Sorry, I should have phrased that differently (not that it's an excuse, but I'm a native Dutch speaker).

I meant that an unwitting outsider (like a prospective employer) would hear the name "Westminster Academy" and might think it was a traditional, East Coast-style prep school. Americans have traditionally picked British-sounding names to make things like housing developments and shopping malls sound "classy," and that seems to be the case here as well.

by Anonymousreply 191June 16, 2019 2:10 PM

Oh, I see. And you're quite right; Americans do just that.

I don't know the background, but the name Westminster is closely associated with the Presbyterian Church in the U.S., for reasons that I suspect have nothing to do with classing up a pretty vanilla denomination. Any Presbyterians hanging around who can shed light on the significance of the name?

by Anonymousreply 192June 16, 2019 2:15 PM

R184 Hardly. The most elite schools in Memphis are St. Mary’s Episcopal School for girls and Memphis University School for boys.

by Anonymousreply 193June 16, 2019 2:40 PM

Please stop with the Memphis, Dallas, LA etc schools. Elite, BLUE BLOOD private schools! Celebrity spawn are not blue bloods and neither are children of parents that own a chain of bbq joints or gas stations. Stick to the topic.

by Anonymousreply 194June 16, 2019 3:27 PM

St. Pauls, Andover, Exeter, Groton, Deerfield, Farmington.

by Anonymousreply 195June 16, 2019 4:41 PM

Hancock Park, Pasadena and San Marino, CA, became a winter haven for bluebloods in the 1800's due to easier train travel. Some remained year round.

An east coast blueblood helped found the girls' school Marlborough, first in Pasadena; it was moved to Hancock Park.

In 2016, Town & Country magazine ranked Marlborough as the "best girl's school in America."[2] Students who attend Marlborough are also known as violets, the original Marlborough mascot. Marlborough is 6th in the U.S. for schools with the highest standardized test scores.

by Anonymousreply 196June 16, 2019 4:51 PM

Of course, OP wasn't [primarily] interested in which schools are "the best." He asked which are the snobbiest and blue-bloodiest, and those attributes won't necessarily (but may) correlate to the academic excellence (or highest standardized test scores).

by Anonymousreply 197June 16, 2019 5:07 PM

r194 is one of those snobs who believes that no blue blood flows west of Philadelphia.

by Anonymousreply 198June 16, 2019 5:08 PM

Believe it or not, cities west of Pittsburgh have their own blue blood hierarchies, and their children going to a fancy private school in that city are going to hold more cachet locally than going to an Eastern prep school.

The Kempers and Kaufmans of Kansas City, the Chandlers of Los Angeles, the Dunavants of Memphis, the Daytons of Minneapolis--they mostly send their children to local private day schools. So those schools hold more cachet within those cities than prep schools often do.

People have heard of Exeter and Andover, but that's about it off the East Coast. If you tell Angelenos you went to Taft or Lawrenceville, they'll have no idea what you're talking about; but they'll know what Harvard-Westlake is, and be impressed.

by Anonymousreply 199June 16, 2019 5:32 PM

[R112]:

Sorry. Typo. Stanford.

by Anonymousreply 200June 16, 2019 6:06 PM

I think OP is talking about the "door openers"

You tell someone that you went to Andover, Exeter, Miss Porter's, Deerfield, Woodberry, Madeira, EHS, etc.... you are automatically connected to a world of privilege, strong alumni networks, and worldwide connections. The doors automatically fly open. The same happens with the elite colleges. Yes there are schools in west bumfuck that are door openers in that state, maybe region, but they don't carry the universal appeal of an Exeter.

by Anonymousreply 201June 16, 2019 6:14 PM

[R114]:

Re: writing discipline. My English teacher in prep school had two rubber stamps, which he used liberally on our essay papers. One said, Too Vague: Be Specific, and the other was, Cliche’: Minus Five.

Those things added up.

Another teacher (actually, they were always referred to as Masters), would respond to the content of a student’s essay by adding a drawing in the upper corner of the paper, depicting a little pile of curved lines, with a drawing of a shovel in it, and wavy vertical lines, with little joined circles that looked like flies.

Expressive.

by Anonymousreply 202June 16, 2019 6:16 PM

Add Lovett in Atlanta. Most famous alumnus is Jon Benet Ramsey's brother. In 1960 Martin Luther King wanted his son to go there, and, needless to say, all hell broke loose.

by Anonymousreply 203June 16, 2019 8:27 PM

Lots of people putting forth day schools from various cities, no matter how expensive or prominent, they still can’t compete with the best boarding schools.

by Anonymousreply 204June 16, 2019 8:34 PM

Once again DL's bizarre class obsession rears its head. Along with responses that were true 50 years ago when many DLers went to these schools.

The truth is that none of these schools are as you imagine them--filled with characters from Philadelphia Story, heirs and heiresses to vast fortunes.

The boarding schools are a mix.

One part upper middle class to wealthy kids who live in a part of the country where even the local day schools aren't that great. Beto -->Woodbury is a good example of this--his mom owned a successful retail store, his father was a politician, they were far from blue-blood heirs, but El Paso Country Day probably wasn't cutting it, so they sent him away for a year or two.

One part kids of divorced parents with high powered jobs who work/travel a lot -- sort of self-explanatory, again more upper middle class than "blue blood"

One part kids from families who have gone to Groton/Andover/Choate, etc. for generations. There are fewer and fewer of them these days and the parents, who are the age of most DLers, often don't want to send the kids away unless there's an underlying reason (divorce, kid is into drugs, etc.)

One part smart Jewish/Asian/South Asian kids whose parents think that it conveys some sort of WASPy social status (sort of like many DLers)

One part black and Latinx scholarship students--smart kids with involved parents who knew how to get them the scholarship, many are also athletes

One extra large part foreign students--Chinese and Middle Eastern in particular, who want their kids learning how to be "American" and also setting themselves up for easier admission to top US colleges.

Day schools are mostly the upper middle class "meritocracy" families, a mix of kids who are second or third generation at the school and kids whose parents think sending them to Charlotte Country Day (I have no idea if there is such a thing) will make people forget they went to Appalachian State.

Top prep schools in terms of name recognition are the usual New England and Virginia suspects.

Top day schools are the usual NYC and DC suspects. Horace Mann (which someone upthread seems to have confused with Stuyvesant), Riverdale, Rye Country Day, Fieldston, Dalton, Trinity, Columbia Prep and Avenue are very Jewish. The girls schools more like 50/50 (Chapin/Brearly/Spence). The others are more mixed and obvs places like Sacred Heart and St. David's are mostly Catholic. And they're all a mix, some of the moms show up in Chanel, others in sweats and it's more about the personality than the bank account, all NYC privates are largely Wall Street money, even BK schools like St. Anns and Berkely Carroll. So rarely the "blue bloods" the OP was asking about.

No idea about DC schools, though Sidwell-Friends seems to attract more high profile liberal types--kind of like Brown U.--a few kids of big names and lots of regular people.

There are schools like Lakeside in Seattle that have reps outside their cities, but they're not as established as the East Coast schools and mostly new tech money, so a very different vibe than the East Coast schools.

1/2

by Anonymousreply 205June 16, 2019 9:52 PM

[2/2] Suburbs are a weird mix--because East Coast burbs are tightly zoned, the local public is often highly desirable (e.g., Bronxville, Millburn, Rye, Jericho) and kids who "fell in with the wrong crowd" or "need extra attention" (e.g. dumb as a rock) get sent to private. Ditto families who choose to live in towns with big houses but bad schools (that part of Yonkers that's next to Scarsdale and Bronxville) and factor paying for private into the equation.

But in the South and Midwest it seems like far more UMC kids go to private school, that public options are good but not at the level of East Coast. (Mostly. There are exceptions, I am sure.)

LA: Los Angeles is an outlier here. All of the private schools are relatively new. Pre-busing, kids on the West Side mostly went to the local public school (Uni, Pali, SaMo, BH) but post-busing, private schools started to take off. Harvard-Westlake has only been what it is in the last 15-20 years--it was a girl's school and a boy's military school as recently as the 80s. Mostly Hollywood families--the lawyers, producers and studio execs. Brentwood School, Crossroads and Windward are the other ones. It's the West Side, so those schools are also mostly Jewish, not "blue blood"-- if you want WASPs in LA, it's the Pasadena schools like Poly.

Sort of a novel, I know, but I grew up in that world and just reporting back.

by Anonymousreply 206June 16, 2019 9:52 PM

[quote] You tell someone that you went to Andover, Exeter, Miss Porter's, Deerfield, Woodberry, Madeira, EHS, etc.... you are automatically connected to a world of privilege, strong alumni networks, and worldwide connections. The doors automatically fly open.

I think you've been watching too many episodes of "Mad Men" featuring Pete Campbell. That's really not the case so much anymore. I think it's more true with colleges--as I said upthread, I went to Yale, and I've certainly had a lot of benefits accrue to me from that connection. But I had friends in college who had gone to Andover and Exeter and Choate and Deerfield, and I don't think my friends who went to those schools got all that much more benefit from where they prepped compared to what they got from where they went to college, unless they went into investment banking.

It's just not the Fifties anymore. There are certainly a few places where the Eastern establishment really dominates (particularly in the judiciary and in Wall Street), but it's more about where you went to college and professional school nowadays than where you went to prep school.

by Anonymousreply 207June 16, 2019 10:45 PM

Lakeside in Seattle - Class of 80 here. Of the 100 in my graduating class, 11 went to Stanford, 4 to Harvard, 3 to Yale, 3 to Princeton, 20 or so to the Amherst/Middlebury/Wesleyan/Colby type schools. Bill Gates was class of 75 and the McCaw cellular boys roughly the same so the tech money hadn't yet hit Seattle. The local blue blood scions were Piggotts (Pacific Car and Foundry), Nordstroms, Weyerhausers, Simpsons (timber), Wycokoffs and Frinks. Class was about 1/3 right family, 1/2children of upwardly mobile professionals interested in the best education for their kids, and 1/6 scholarship. It had been a boarding school originally and was architecturally designed to be reminiscent of Exeter or Phillips but boarding was dropped in the early 70s when Lakeside (boys) merged with St. Nicholas (girls) to become coed.

by Anonymousreply 208June 16, 2019 10:59 PM

[quote] It's just not the Fifties anymore. There are certainly a few places where the Eastern establishment really dominates (particularly in the judiciary and in Wall Street), but it's more about where you went to college and professional school nowadays than where you went to prep school.

100% R207 and while that's interesting R208, your 40th reunion is next year. Like comparing the class of 1940 to your class of 1980.

And except for a small handful of firms, even on Wall Street, you'll find your connections from Great Neck North, Dalton or New Trier are far more valuable than any connections from Groton or Choate.

by Anonymousreply 209June 16, 2019 11:21 PM

194 here and to R208, niece just graduated from a top tier University and the program book listed where everyone went to high school. Guess where most of them went...top tier prep schools..esp the ones who graduated cum laude or magna cum laude.

Ok enough with the Harvard Westlake. Do you work for the school? Seriously no one cares about that school except for you and maybe two others. We get it...YOU LOVE HARVARD WESTLAKE. But stick to the topic. No blue bloods go there. Just rich celebrity kids or entertainment execs.

The west coast is great. Beautiful weather and beautiful people. Can't that be enough for you? It's hardly a paragon of culture and intelligence. That's why all the best schools are on the east coast. There's no LA society! Just a bunch of entertainment folks. You have your academy awards. Enough already. Geez!

by Anonymousreply 210June 16, 2019 11:39 PM

Sorry my post above was meant for R207. And how do you think most get into top tier schools? Top tier prep schools.

by Anonymousreply 211June 16, 2019 11:43 PM

That was true in the 70s and 80s when a lot of DLers went to college, R211.

Not really true now.

Any top school trips all over itself to create the Most Diverse Class Ever Created and so they are particularly conscious of not taking too many kids from certain schools, prep schools in particular.

And I'm seriously doubting your story about your niece, no matter how nicely it illustrates your point. No college would bother to put the high school anyone came from other than a recently recruited athlete. They'd put their hometown.

Also, neither R207 nor R208 mentioned Harvard-Westlake or any other school in Los Angeles. I did, but my take matches yours.

I will never understand why so many gay men have an odd need to cling to the social mores of midcentury America, the same mores that kept them marginalized.

by Anonymousreply 212June 17, 2019 12:38 AM

California has never built up the same kind of boarding-school/summer camp network that's such a big part of the East Coast. Cate School is in the old boarding school prep-school model, but the other privates you hear about are day schools. So, they're not bastions of blue-blood snobbery in the same way the prep schools are, but there are some schools that pull their local elites--Harvard-Westlake in LA is considered the serious academic school of the privates down there. Castilleja is the elite private girl's school in Silicon Valley--it does work as a major funnel to Stanford and VCs and tech CEOs do send their daughters there. There isn't really a co-ed or male equivalent, though there are a lots of private schools.

Some of the public high schools are very competitive and highly ranked. They send kids to Ivies and other top 20s. That said, when it comes to college apps, the privates do confer an advantage--not because the colleges are awed by them, but because the private college counselors work a lot harder to get kids into particular schools and tend to have tighter relationships with some of the colleges. The livelihood of a private school depends on that kind of results, whereas the public schools, even in the good areas, have other priorities.

It really kind of parallels the situation with colleges--the East has a bunch of well-established top-tier privates and average publics. California has a couple of top-tier privates (Stanford, CalTech and, arguably, USC and the Claremont colleges), but is just as known for having the top public university system in the country. Stanford's big rival is Berkeley, USC's is UCLA. Meanwhile, the Ivies play the Ivies and the public's are, literally, not in the same league.

by Anonymousreply 213June 17, 2019 1:42 AM

PS 12

by Anonymousreply 214June 17, 2019 1:48 AM

[quote]California has a couple of top-tier privates ,arguably, USC

No. Just no.

by Anonymousreply 215June 17, 2019 2:14 AM

I would say of top-tier private colleges, California has Stanford and Caltech, and maybe Harvey Mudd.

by Anonymousreply 216June 17, 2019 2:20 AM

Three Rivers Secretarial Academy

by Anonymousreply 217June 17, 2019 2:22 AM

R212, perhaps you are out of touch bc I just attended the graduation ceremony and it, most certainly, listed their high schools. So you can doubt all you want.

As to your point as to why certain people cling to social mores of mid century America, I'm assuming the question is rhetorical. But it begs the question, why are you even on this thread if these "social mores" as you put it are so antiquated? Perhaps you should start a different thread about social justice and diversity.

One last thing regarding diversity at top prep schools...while they are more diverse than back in your generation, having attended quite a few in the last few years, it is still overwhelming white. So sorry to burst your bubble. When was the last time you attended a high school or college graduation?

by Anonymousreply 218June 17, 2019 2:25 AM

Sorry R218 your post about how you attended a crappy public high school and often wonder how your life would turn out if you went to "an elite private school" and how angry you are at the notion that anyone from California dare claim that their schools attract "blue bloods" is all I need to know about you and why this world you can only gaze in on is so fascinating and important to you.

by Anonymousreply 219June 17, 2019 2:29 AM

Exeter is about half white/half nonwhite these days.

by Anonymousreply 220June 17, 2019 2:31 AM

r218 has stated her boundaries!

by Anonymousreply 221June 17, 2019 2:32 AM

USC is ranked no. 22 in the last USNWR rating and has an admit rate of 13 percent last year. I don't like it either, but it's been climbing upward over the last 20 years. As for Claremont--not just Harvey Mudd, but Pomona and Claremont-McKenna are well-ranked--the latter two are ranked better than Smith and Wesleyan.

Both USC and the Claremonts took advantage of the financial and population boom in California. They were also helped by California's large number of gung-ho Asian students.

by Anonymousreply 222June 17, 2019 2:36 AM

R218 is a not uncommon type on Datalounge R221. And in the gay community for that matter. The odd obsession with social class and what is or isn't "high class "-- endless DL threads on it.

And correect R222-- Pomona and Claremont McKenna are both very well known on the East Coast and are considered in the same league as Amherst, Swarthmore, Williams, Middlebury et al. They are now attracting a lot of kids from the Northeast too.

by Anonymousreply 223June 17, 2019 2:43 AM

The fact is no one considers USC a "top tier" school r222. To talk about it in the same breath as Stanford is a laugh. It's not regarded at that level.

by Anonymousreply 224June 17, 2019 2:47 AM

I graduated from Exeter in 1988 and I know who I went to school with and what it was like. I also know what my experiences were after graduating and in the years following graduation and how it opened many doors for me. I am also quite sure that many things have changed in the 30 years since I was a student, but thank you Mr. Know it All Millennial for doing what you millennials do so well. Millennialsplaining. It REALLY never gets old.

by Anonymousreply 225June 17, 2019 3:21 AM

I was on the Hastings law school (San Francisco) campus once (to do some research). It's a public school, but I remember it having a snobby feel. That was a long time ago, maybe it's better now.

by Anonymousreply 226June 17, 2019 3:56 AM

This. ^^^^^. This is my first post in this thread btw. MillennialFriend, I enjoy your posts and want you to continue. But please know, yes things have changed, but you just might be too young to truly understand in the marrow of your bones (as some of us older members) that there is nothing new under the sun. The folks posting here who are older offer wonderful insight too, it’s just a different facet, though I understand you’re trying to present the most current trends, and I appreciate that. Multi-generational threads are my favorite, so let’s hear it all!

Wonderful fun reading this thread.

My only complaint, though it’s not technically the thread topic, is that this thread illustrates how much worse the divide is between the classes. As a married parent, we make a great living, and.......our family is bleeding us dry. We live in a upper middle class midwestern locale (quite close to New Trier), but the reality is that even with our terrific income, we could never afford to put multiple kids through private schooling AND elite college. It. Will. Not. Happen.

I had a wonderful education. My kids are receiving a terrific public education. But there literally is no longer a path from upper middle class to the upper class. We’ve been cut off. Don’t cry for me Argentina, it’s fine. But if people like us are shut out, then lower middle class and the poor? They’re utterly locked out. The 1% have a lock down on ALL the power, ALL the money, ALL the prestige. Something is going to blow, the masses are tired of the rigged system. Operation Varsuty Blues my ass.

Thank you, now carry on!

by Anonymousreply 227June 17, 2019 4:07 AM

R158 Cranbrook (for boys) is one of the most beautiful campuses in the US, along with its sister school Kingswood (for girls)

by Anonymousreply 228June 17, 2019 4:08 AM

I'm a college professor at a LAC, and I can say pretty confidently that USC is NOT considered a top tier private school by anyone except Lori Loughlin and her husband.

by Anonymousreply 229June 17, 2019 4:20 AM

[quote]it does work as a major funnel to Stanford and VCs

Very interesting and informative post, R213. But what, may I ask, are VCs?

by Anonymousreply 230June 17, 2019 4:29 AM

R219. Why are you posting here? Seriously. It's about private schools which maybe you attended or maybe you did not. You are correct. I did not attend but I also said I do quite well for myself so no anger here but I absolutely see the benefit bc I see it first hand which is why I posted here. So why are you here? You, however, seem to take offense that I referred to you as "out of touch" which you are. Something drew you to this post? Was it perhaps the same social mores that you referred to in the previous post? Or, ironically, is it to appear superior by implying you grew up in the environment but are above it all? Bottom line is this post has nothing to with whether you think private schools opens doors or not. It's about which are the most elite and blue blood. If you find the topic superficial and mundane, move on. But somehow I suspect you won't bc your intentions are quite transparent. Checkmate.

by Anonymousreply 231June 17, 2019 4:32 AM

R230 VCs = venture capitalists.

by Anonymousreply 232June 17, 2019 4:34 AM

Park Tudor in Indianapolis

by Anonymousreply 233June 17, 2019 4:39 AM

Chadwicks has an IMPECCABLE reputation.

by Anonymousreply 234June 17, 2019 4:42 AM

You know where to find the booze and the boys!

by Anonymousreply 235June 17, 2019 5:36 AM

USC is not at the same level as Stanford, but it is, in terms of rankings, at the same level as Berkeley and UCLA. It's had well-ranked graduate and professional programs for years and, in part due to some generous merit aid, been climbing the undergraduate rungs. USNWR puts it at no. 22. Ratings are iffy things, but on some lists it's ahead of Brown and Vanderbilt.

So, not in the HPYSM or top 10, but in the top 25, whereas 25 years ago it was more like Pepperdine--rich kids party school, but with good sports and a terrific film department.

And I still kind of hate the place.

And, yeah, VC means venture capitalist. Steve Jobs sent his daughter to Castilleja. Thing is, at a certain point, some people are so rich, it doesn't matter whether the money's new or old, people want those connections. People don't spend a ton of time sniping about Jeff Bezos being nouveau riche--not when he can buy and sell entire countries.

by Anonymousreply 236June 17, 2019 6:15 AM

Would Woodside Priory qualify in the blue blood realm.

by Anonymousreply 237June 17, 2019 9:33 AM

Speaking of New England prep schools, don't forget the other Saint Grottlesex schools (St Marks and Middlesex), along with Pomfret and Avon Old Farms -- I think of the last two as educating beautiful preppies who aren't quite as smart as the Groton kids.

by Anonymousreply 238June 17, 2019 11:09 AM

[quote] The girls I knew were there in the mid- late 90s, and came in at middle school or high school from a private day school on Capitol Hill.

Capitol Hill Day School by any chance? I went there until 4 to 8th grade and then went to GDS (or JewDS as NCS people called it) and sank like a stone. I couldn't handle finding myself at a school where we were treated like college students. Socially it wasn't tough at all unless you were stupid.

by Anonymousreply 239June 17, 2019 11:18 AM

Thanks, R232!

by Anonymousreply 240June 17, 2019 11:19 AM

R222, Wow. USC used to be known as the "University of Spoiled Children" where you only needed a "C" average fo entry.

Thanks DL, I find this thread fascinating. Never heard about prep schools until I went to UCLA and met those who attended them. I've always been curious about how family, education, background, etc shapes an individual. So of course I want to know what it's really like to go to a prep school.

Definitely see the advantage of smaller classes and teaching to the top students rather than to the middle. Also non-tolerance of classroom disturbances in favor of discipline. However daily chapel? Required Sunday services? No thanks.

by Anonymousreply 241June 17, 2019 11:48 AM

Got it in one, r239. A lot of CHDS kids experienced real culture and academic shock when they left the Hill cocoon.

by Anonymousreply 242June 17, 2019 11:49 AM

r241, you'd be amazed at how quickly daily/Sunday chapel becomes as routine as brushing your teeth. Boys showed up on Sunday mornings wearing shirts, ties, blazers and pajama bottoms or sweats, and daily chapel was a chance to nap for 20 minutes. No biggie.

by Anonymousreply 243June 17, 2019 12:19 PM

With all due respect R227, I am 34 years old and not living in my parents basement, lol. Many of my friends are having kids and moving to the burbs or Brooklyn and so I am aware of where you're coming from. My point was that too many DLers forget that 1980 was 39 years ago and that the US and the American class system has changed dramatically since that time, including all of the schools mentioned in this list.

As for your other point--income inequality is a huge problem right now, but as several recent books have pointed out, it's less about the 1% versus everyone else, as it is the top 15% or 20% and everyone else. While the gradations in social class used to be much more shades-of-gray and people moved rapidly between them, there's kind of a stark drop-off now and the people on top are locking the gates and rolling up the ladders and doing everything in their power to make sure their kids stay there (which, in its most perverse form, becomes the Felicity Huffman scandal.)

As for USC, they're not the only school that figured that trick out. NYU, Boston U, University of Miami (off the top of my head) all did something similar, everything from building new dorms to create more of a campus feeling to offering lots of scholarship cash to smart kids from affluent families or instant admission to undergad+med school, which then created a buzz around the school in those towns which had a snowball effect, bottom line being they've all gone from being rich kid party schools to much more serious institutions. That said, they're nowhere near on par with Ivies/Standford or even that next tier (Duke, Georgetown, NWern, WashU, Vanderbilt, Chicago et al)

by Anonymousreply 244June 17, 2019 12:20 PM

[off/topic] Yes, definitely r242. Shock is a great way to describe the feeling. One guy I know ended up at Gonzaga and was miserable. That jockish alpha-male atmosphere did not suit him at all. The classmates of mine that went to the smaller lesser known high schools did very well, though.

by Anonymousreply 245June 17, 2019 12:20 PM

^^this post, not this list

by Anonymousreply 246June 17, 2019 12:20 PM

I went to an Ivy, and the prep school kids thought college was a cakewalk compared to high school. In some courses, they had used the same textbook in high school, and they had already done a lot of the required reading in courses like philosophy.

I could easily identify them, as they affected a cynical and jaded air about everything.

by Anonymousreply 247June 17, 2019 12:23 PM

[still off topic]. The Hill has its own kinder/gentler culture, r245, and while I like it a lot, it's out of sync with the rest of the planet (and certainly with the rest of DC) in many ways, it doesn't prepare its kids for "real life." Hill kids tended to bloom at upper schools like Field and Edmund Burke. Gonzaga.....yikes.

by Anonymousreply 248June 17, 2019 12:27 PM

I did too R247 and yes college was easier than high school.

But kids who went to top suburban public high schools, especially in the northeast and CA had identical experiences.

The drop off between us and kids who'd gone to more middle class high schools was pretty dramatic. I remember being surprised that a friend who was in my history class had never had to do footnoting/citations before.

by Anonymousreply 249June 17, 2019 12:27 PM

[quote] The Hill has its own kinder/gentler culture, [R245], and while I like it a lot, it's out of sync with the rest of the planet (and certainly with the rest of DC) in many ways, it doesn't prepare its kids for "real life." Hill kids tended to bloom at upper schools like Field and Edmund Burke.

Yes, I agree with all of this. What I remember about my Hill days was how small the school was, how excellent the teachers were, but also how babied we were. We were lectured constantly about the importance of maturity and applying ourselves, but with such a tiny school if a student is struggling with a subject the teacher isn't going to let them fail. No, you stay after class and get extra tutoring, all suggested, then arranged and given by the teacher. That's pretty exceptional and not at all like the real world.

[quote]Gonzaga.....yikes.

'Nuff said.

by Anonymousreply 250June 17, 2019 2:14 PM

PS A friend of mine went to Maret after Capitol Hill and loved it. Maret isn't on the same level as the top tier schools of DC, but it was also less cutthroat and more balanced, imo.

by Anonymousreply 251June 17, 2019 2:19 PM

Maret is a lovely school; one of its strengths for many kids and parents is that, like Field, they expect that not everyone is going to go to Yale--or want to. And also like Field, the atmosphere is very warm, but disciplined.

Last word on Capitol Hill nurturing: even neighborhood soccer is different there. It's parent-coached and everyone plays, where in upper NW and the better burbs the parents pay to hire skilled coaches for their kids' teams. This is fine until the kid, who believes he/she is a swell player, gets to upper school and discovers what swell players look like.

by Anonymousreply 252June 17, 2019 3:13 PM

[quote]USC is not at the same level as Stanford, but it is, in terms of rankings, at the same level as Berkeley and UCLA.

USC does well on lists like USNWR domestic universities, which incorporates a lot of soft “college experience” criteria. On lists that focus more on academics and research—Times Higher Ed global rankings, QS world rankings, ARWU, Round, and even USNWR’s *global* rankings, which use different criteria than the US only list—it is outranked not only by UCLA and Berkeley, but also by many other publics like Michigan and most of the rest of the UC campuses like Santa Barbara. Academically, USC simply does not rank.

But this is not about academic excellence, it’s about elitism. Traditionally, prep schools were places where WASPs would send their children for grooming and opportunity. They were not an academic meritocracy at all. They perpetuated a specific kind of social privilege for a particular demographic. And that’s what the Ivies were as well, at the university level. This has now changed, at least somewhat, with the push for diversity and equal access.

For those really interested in the way things used to work at prep schools, pick up The Preppy Handbook. It is marvelous, and its breezy tone belies a gimlet take on exactly this subject, circa the early 1980s.

by Anonymousreply 253June 17, 2019 5:19 PM

Funny enough R253, you're two points are probably related.

The need to rank everything "officially" likely made schools with strong academics and Ivy League acceptance rates seem more desirable than those with strong social cache, thus speeding up the breakdown of the world Lisa Birnbach described in the Preppy Handbook.

by Anonymousreply 254June 17, 2019 5:43 PM

^^your two points

by Anonymousreply 255June 17, 2019 5:43 PM

I went to an Ivy but come from a very humble background. So basically, I had to work my way in. Many students I knew were extremely wealthy, and still are. Though, other classmates who perhaps did not have as much family money but still pursued high-earning professions still don't seem to have as much money as those with family money. I know one student who went to Horace Mann and then my Ivy. Very wealthy. She is truly and utterly stupid. She went to some low-tier graduate school and became a marriage therapist. She lives in a 3 million dollar house in New Canaan and her kids attend 50k/year preschool. She has an office in Manhattan but I suspect she doesn't have any real clients, but just rents out the space. Another guy whose family was not as wealthy is an oncologist and lives in a 700k house in Virginia. Some of the kids I went to high school with in my very middle class, ethnic European neighborhood live in houses more expensive than that. So, I am not sure how much academic pedigree matters anymore. It just seems that if you come from wealth, you will stay at that level of wealth regardless, and if you build it for yourself, your gains will be modest.

by Anonymousreply 256June 17, 2019 6:06 PM

The way the economy is built, and with the introduction of tools like Ch. 11 Bankruptcy, vast wealth is almost impossible to lose. Tax changes with the Trump tax cut reduced inheritance taxes drastically. Those with newfound wealth, like actors and athletes, usually start spending foolishly with no sense of saving and investment. People like MC Hammer, who had millions, tried to be the savior of his whole social network and ended up broke. What most Americans are not aware of, and it's not ever discussed in open forum, is that the vast majority of very wealthy people were born into it, and there's a support mechanism that keeps it that way. Our country is a plutocratic oligarchy.

by Anonymousreply 257June 17, 2019 6:35 PM

Cranbrook may have a beautiful campus but the students were entitled assholes.

by Anonymousreply 258June 17, 2019 7:21 PM

R237, I'm sure some wealthy kids go to Woodside Priory--it's in Portola Valley and the public high school in that area is no great shakes so people there and in nearby Atherton send their kids to private schools--but Woodside Priory doesn't have the snoot factor of Castilleja. It's Catholic, for one thing (the snootiest of the snootiest are mainline Protestant, particularly Episcopalian) and it's not that old (founded in 1957.) That said, Catholic schools tend to have more prestige in the Bay Area than New England (Italians, Irish, Portuguese, Mexicans have had a lot of cultural influence), but Woodside Priory isn't the top Catholic school either--Sacred Heart in Atherton is on the Peninsula, Bellarmine in San Jose, St. Ignatius and some others in San Francisco.

R244, Yep, a bunch of mediocre universities in desirable places have leveraged their position to attract more desirable students--strangely enough, the show "Felicity" jumpstarted NYU's climb. Maybe you can tell me what's up with the University of Miami--didn't know it had become a thing until a friend's kid turned down Northwestern and chose U. of Miami instead. What's the draw?

by Anonymousreply 259June 17, 2019 7:27 PM

A friend of mine went to Georgetown for undergrad. She was interested in law and policy. She came from a poor family that didn’t offer much support, but she was very smart. It was rough for her. She was the poor one sailing on loans while her friends went to Europe holiday and had maids to come in to clean up.

She’s made a modest living as an attorney but has still struggled; the fabled connections that one makes at elite universities did not materialize for her. Part of advantage includes feeling entitled to it, without question, and she did not. Lacking that, or the charisma and drive to work your way into those enchanted circles, you may end up with as much advantage as you would at a state school, and much more debt to boot.

by Anonymousreply 260June 17, 2019 7:28 PM

The rich keep looking after the rich and provide each other opportunities that perpetuate the status quo. It's not an accident that the heads of most Fortune 500 companies, top law firms, high government positions, etc. all went to the same schools as did their parents and grandparents etc. True, R257, that only a few movie stars, athletes, certain social media stars are really the only ones to transcend socioeconomic barriers, but even within that, most Hollywood actors come from wealthy families and more than a few instagram celebs or successful bloggers come from those same elite backgrounds. Yet, many middle class and working class kids grow up believing they have a shot at even these non-academic "professions." The system is rigged more than anyone knows.

by Anonymousreply 261June 17, 2019 7:33 PM

[quote]The need to rank everything "officially" likely made schools with strong academics and Ivy League acceptance rates seem more desirable than those with strong social cache, thus speeding up the breakdown of the world Lisa Birnbach described in the Preppy Handbook.

That’s a good point.

by Anonymousreply 262June 17, 2019 7:40 PM

I’ll echo the view that the elite education doesn’t guarantee anything anymore. Parental wealth does. Schools have done a better job at integrating race and wealth - but society has now proven its less about education and all about inherited wealth. My Gen X seemed to be the first where Ivy degree didn’t guarantee success. More affirmative action in schools all around for race and wealth - but it didn’t guarantee the wealth it did for prior generations. I think a lot of us are bitter that all the hard work and diligence has not resulted in the pay off we thought. While millennials with parental wealth are living the life we thought we would have gained by working hard.

by Anonymousreply 263June 17, 2019 7:54 PM

Choate?

by Anonymousreply 264June 17, 2019 7:56 PM

There are a few elite Catholic schools that fit the "Prep school" profile, though this does not extend to the vast majority of catholic high schools. Among the ones in Massachusetts, St. Sebastian's (Which is part of the New England Independent School conference), St. John's Prep in Danvers, St. John's High School in Shrewsbury, Austin Prep, Newton Country Day School, and Boston College HS. These all send a handful of kids to elite schools but were mostly feeders for the elite Catholic colleges (Holy Cross, BC, Georgetown, Fordham, Notre Dame, St. John's, Seton Hall,, Providence College, etc.)

by Anonymousreply 265June 17, 2019 8:15 PM

The Preppy Handbook is a marvel. Its success took everyone by surprise, most of all Lisa Birnbach. She acknowledges that she ended up diluting and irrevocably changing the culture it documented. The book is just a perfect balance of anthropology, humor, light parody and affection. It inspired many, especially those who did not read more deeply into the darker side of preppydom suggested by the book—conformity, emotional repression, etc.

I was in elementary school in the ‘80s, and there were two cultural movements that shaped our lives then—valley girl and preppy. This was in a Midwest suburb, and I don’t think that any of us made the connection between the term “preppy” and wealthy east coast families or even prep school. It was a generic signifier for a particular style—Izods with popped collars, khakis and Weejuns—but even more so for a type: athletic, academically adequate to talented, good looking. Popular. Preppy was shorthand for successful, even in a middle class suburban Detroit public school. That’s how pervasive preppy influence was and how it became an aspirational, idealized image.

I was in a school “for the gifted” for a couple of years, and we’d go to Cranbrook on field trips. It was beautiful. They had a big sand table for teaching archaeological digging, an art museum...I never thought to be envious, but the residents mist have pitied us poors!

by Anonymousreply 266June 17, 2019 8:25 PM

R260 That sucks and you know what's crazy - that the classmates with maids and jetting to Europe on the weekend were very likely no where near as smart or hard working as your friend, but they will end up wealthier doing half the work. If I hadn't lived and witness it myself, I don't know if I would have believed it, but it's the way it is.

With this whole college scandal, these parents are not worried that their kids won't do well in life or get the education they "deserve," because they know they have tons money to give them....they are just worried that they can't keep up with their own friends and will face social embarrassment among their own peer group.

by Anonymousreply 267June 17, 2019 8:30 PM

Lol r266. Total flashback. I grew up on the Main Line just as the Preppy Handbook came out. It was partially based on the Main Line culture - so the cultural movement and my environment were perfectly in sync. As a gayling, I took the “prep” style to the extreme. Only Brooks Brothers (when it still meant something), Bass penny loafers, Izod shirts, tennis sweaters. The amount of money I spent! I didn’t even realize how extreme it was until I went away to a college that was preppy and people thought it was strange. I realIzed the real boarding school kids were more concerned about getting good pot then the right cashmere blazer.

by Anonymousreply 268June 17, 2019 8:54 PM

Money comes and goes. The post WII era in the U.S. was unprecedented in terms of social mobility and wealth. Thanks to the GI Bill and the expansion of the public college systems, college educations became available to anyone with brains and desire. You really could work your way through college. And, if you didn't, union jobs meant a damned good life. My parents grew up poor, but both were able to attend college and I grew up upper-middle class. But, more to the point, we had a housekeeper and she and her husband, a crossing guard, were able to buy their own home.

A lot of people grew up with the idea that this is how things were, rather than a historical exception. If you were smart and worked hard, you'd do well and there would be opportunities. That's still true in some areas--i.e. Silicon Valley--but it's getting harder and harder and more and more exclusive. Rich people know this and so do the people who aren't rich, but are rich-adjacent--both physically and financially.

And it plays out in the schools--wealthy people stick to private schools, even when the public schools are excellent, because private schools cater to them and make sure they keep up their connections with the elite private schools. Those college counselors will pick up the phone and plead for a particular kid at an admissions office. The wealthy-adjacent might go the public school route, but they'll spring for the private college counselor to help out their kid. They might not be able to do what the rich people are doing, but they're more likely to know about it.

And everybody else can't figure out what's going on, but they know it used to be easier to get ahead and they're burning up with resentment about it.

by Anonymousreply 269June 17, 2019 9:02 PM

@R262 -- thank you

@R259 -- Miami has some good programs-- their business school in particular. IIRC they do the "we guarantee you a spot in our med school" drill and, mostly, they were throwing serious cash at kids who, while they might not have needed it, were flattered to be offered a free ride or close to it . Plus the weather. Plus great internship possibilities in Miami, especially if you knew any Spanish. So all that.

@R266 - that's funny. Did a little research, Birnbach was a Jewish girl from the UES who went to Riverdale (a very Jewish private school) and then Brown, so probably dated someone from that world and was able to have the outsider-on-the-inside perspective you needed to nail it so accurately. And I had read that too, about how the book, which was intended as satire for people in that world, sort of became a "How-To" book for people like R268--seems the US was coming out of 70s stoner culture to 80s yuppie culture and the timing was perfect.

[quote] And it plays out in the schools--wealthy people stick to private schools, even when the public schools are excellent, because private schools cater to them and make sure they keep up their connections with the elite private schools. Those college counselors will pick up the phone and plead for a particular kid at an admissions office.

Yes and no R269. Depending on the town, some of those public high schools have serious connections to Ivy League admissions officers and the parents are all over that. Or to put it another way, I'd rather send my kid to a Scarsdale, Millburn or Palo Alto High School than a Country Day in a midwestern city.

by Anonymousreply 270June 17, 2019 9:14 PM

When did getting into top tier colleges become a problem? Go back to before WWII, how difficult was it to get into an Ivy? In the movies someone decides to go to school back East and it's a done deal, You never hear about any real pressure--Sinclair Lewis never mentions George Babbitt worrying about his kids' SAT scores.

How did it work back then?

by Anonymousreply 271June 17, 2019 9:16 PM

^^And R269, truth is it's less about getting the A student into Harvard and more about getting the C student into Boston U or Skidmore, something that would never happen at a middle class public school. That's the real advantage of private schools. If you're not a legacy or a big donor, you're sort of on your own in terms of Harvard et al.

by Anonymousreply 272June 17, 2019 9:17 PM

I’ve always been curious why high schools in CA are so horrible. So few top tier schools despite the incredible wealth. It made sense 30-40 years ago when CA was surfer culture, anti-intellectual and entertainment focused. But now it’s a focus of high IQ business and well educated people. Yet other than Palo Alto high school and a few others (including Harvard Westlake about which I may be mistaken), I don’t know of a lot of good high schools. Way less in proportion to the East Coast.

I will say the Claremont Colleges have really come a long way. My East Coast little Ivy is now lower ranked than Pomona and Claremont McKenna - which would have been unthinkable 30 years ago.

by Anonymousreply 273June 17, 2019 9:24 PM

R268 nailed it. The kids from the true blue blood WASP schools barely resembled Birnbach's depiction. Their look was almost proto-grunge with perhaps the smallest of clues (an old belt they grabbed from grandpa's closet once etc). Hair never combed. Always fly away or bed headed. The ones wh played it to a tee were sorted through quickly.

by Anonymousreply 274June 17, 2019 9:33 PM

R270, I happen to know Paly really well. It's not the school connections that get kids into Stanford or the Ivies--it's the parental connections. While Stanford doesn't do a legacy bump, it does give a bump to faculty brats--guess where those kids go to school? The kids who get into the Ivies are legacies or sports recruits and the occasional bona-fide genius. California has a strong athletic culture (yay, good weather) and SV has athletes with parents who can afford Ivy prices. The thing that does work in favor of Paly (and Gunn, the other Palo Alto high school) is the school's reputation--it's seen, correctly, as a school of smart, affluent kids. Which does seem to help with the non-Ivies like University of Chicago or Grinnell.

R273, Proposition 13. It killed public school funding. However, IF a district by a two-thirds majority decides to leverage a tax on itself to fund its schools, it can do so. And if it agrees to take a minimal amount from the state, it can fund up to any level it wants. These are called "basic-aid" districts--there are 80 of them out of 1,000 school districts in California. In those basic-aid districts, you will find some of the best public schools in the country and the highest housing prices--Palo Alto, Beverly Hills, --though also some small random districts are also basic aid.

So, there's a huge difference between a rich district and one that gets most of its money from the state.

R271, Getting in mean passing an entrance exam and MONEY. Remember, no student loans and a small number of people rich enough to send their sons to a Ivy. That's another factor--the Ivies were men-only until the 60s (with the exception of grad schools). So, half the population not eligible and most of the rest unable to afford it in a country with a much smaller population--well, no, going to Harvard didn't take being astonishing.

by Anonymousreply 275June 17, 2019 9:57 PM

Suburban DC had the preppiest dressers. Suburban Boston had the real prep school kids.

by Anonymousreply 276June 17, 2019 9:57 PM

Thank you r275. That makes much more sense why schools are so horrible in 90% of CA. Interesting. In much of northeast, it’s all locally based real estate funding that pays for schools - so very direct correlation between wealth and school quality. Sounds like CA is not that way - except for a very few. I’ll have to look up the “basic aid” listing.

by Anonymousreply 277June 17, 2019 10:01 PM

In CA, besides deciding to tax themselves, a wealthy public school district can run a foundation that collects donations from the wealthy families in its boundaries. The Los Altos Educational Foundation raises millions of dollars in donations every year, which are used exclusively for educational enrichment by the not-that-large Los Altos School District of Los Altos/Los Altos Hills, where lots of Silicon Valley executives live.

Of course, many of Los Altos/LAH residents opt for private school, as well.

by Anonymousreply 278June 17, 2019 10:37 PM

R275-- We are in agreement-- see my follow-up at R272 re: where the private schools and top public schools help.

And yes, with all of those schools the fact that the admissions office knows that odds are very high that the parents can pay full tuition, no loans, no scholarship $, also works in those kids favors.

by Anonymousreply 279June 17, 2019 10:47 PM

Also--as a contrast to what R275 correctly explained about California, here's why East Coast states like New York and (especially) New Jersey have such good public schools:

Each little town is its own school district and property taxes fund the school district.

The town boundaries are permanent which means that real estate prices go up accordingly, since the value of the house is tied to the value of the school district.

Which means that the residents are happy to pay for increases in property taxes to fund the schools, which have small private school sized enrollments because the town itself is small. Because paying $30K/year in property taxes is still cheaper than paying $60K/year in private school tuition.

It also means that those towns are very desirable places to live so that even dinky little houses will sell for big bucks (they'll often get torn down and fixed up) and that everyone in the town is upper middle class or higher and all fixated on the same goals (getting kids in to best colleges possible) which means the schools need to have as many AP classes as possible and serious college counseling departments and if they don't, you just raise property taxes again, it's still cheaper than private school.

The flip is you are probably paying $500K - $1M more for a house in one of those towns than you would in someplace with less intense schools, but the conventional wisdom is that the house will never lose value because people will always pay to live there for the school system.

by Anonymousreply 280June 17, 2019 11:01 PM

R280 - makes me curious what states fund locally vs at at the state level. Seems like major rich/poor differences would result.

by Anonymousreply 281June 19, 2019 1:32 AM

@R281 -- the states do help fund the poorer districts and give them way more money.

That has two results:

1. Residents of wealthier suburban towns are annoyed that so many of their tax dollars are used to fund generally failing schools in places like Newark or Yonkers, versus being funneled to their own schools.

2. The state will fund to a certain level, but then the upscale burbs will easily add to that via the extra revenue they have from property taxes, so the inequality is restored.

by Anonymousreply 282June 19, 2019 2:42 PM

In PA, we have local real estate funding for schools by town/district. It’s resulted in some of the best school districts in the country - and some of the worst. Real estate prices outside of the city are ALL about the school district.

But a side effect of that is the older good districts have HUGE pension and benefit obligations that are making taxes go up dramatically every year JUST to cover pension costs. They aren’t investing in current school needs. So people are moving to the exurbs where there aren’t old pension obligations and most of the money is going to the current school needs. Has resulted in insane real estate taxes in inner suburbs and lower taxes in exurbs that are filled with new families in McMansions who are paying half the taxes as inner suburbs.

by Anonymousreply 283June 19, 2019 4:02 PM
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