POSE Season 2 Premiere Official Discussion Thread

This episode is soooooo sad. OMG

Are Evan Peters, Kate Mara and James Van Der Beek not on this season?

That protest at the church was real...

SPOILER!

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. Has it not occurred to Angel that models, especially runway models, are naked a lot and in front of people? Lots of dressing and getting dressed by people. They will see your dick, sweetie!!!

It was good.

Trudy was unrecognizable !!

Love 💕 Electra! Such a bitch!.

I fucking love Electra!

The episode needed more of her.

It was a strong premiere. I was worried that the quality would dip.

Indya Moore may be crazy on Twitter but she's an excellent actress.

And they were very complimentary towards Madonna and Vogue.

And Lil Pap is HOT. AS. FUCK.

so Evan Peters, Kate Mara and James Van Der Beek were only season 1 characters?

Yes, their stories are finished r8.

And does anyone really miss them?

is the actor who plays Lil Papi gay IRL?

Blanca has some weird obsession with Vogue

The show is fortunate that the actors are all highly likable and moving as the dialogue their given is extremely didactic and sounds as if cribbed from Buzzfeed-level cultural criticism.

that Marie Antoinette thing was tacky even for Elektra

I do wonder where they are going with Vogue. It seems to be more than a one-episode thing, and as r11 pointed out, Blanca has some obsession with it that seems to set her up for disappointment considering what Pray Tell told her about what happens when the "mainstream" gets hold of something.

Also anyone amused by the fact that Sandra Bernhard's character was in this episode a lot with Vogue playing throughout and then Jose (from Blond Ambition and the Vogue video) was in the last ball sequence. Bernhard and Madonna were friends during this period (1990).

Didn’t Madonna get Vogue from NYC underground gay nightlife? They (LGBT) know that they started that and she’s making it mainstream. They think that a very famous white Woman will change things for the LGBT community now that she’s brought their style to the mainstream but they will be disappointed when the fraus adopt it as their own and give little to no acknowledgement of the “fags” that started it.

R10 the Lil Papi character is straight, not sure about the actor IRL

Looking at his Insta, it could go either way with Angel Bismark Curiel, though I'm leaning straight. He seems like he's goofy and fun, just like on the show.

Loved seeing Alexander DiPersia's hairy chest peeking through at one point.

Sandra Bernhard who never registered with me before was amazing too in the clinic scene.

R12 BINGO

I want Papi to do adult thing to me.

I wasn't expecting much from season 2, but boy, was I wrong. Bravo to Billy Porter. He was mesmerizing. I wasn't paying too much attention to the opening credits, but did Gwyneth Paltrow direct this episode??

this is probably Ryan Murphy's best show

r22 Gwyneth Horder-Payton.

r23 Do we know how much involvement he had this season? Some are saying others took over the reins from him, but he was still around for the promo tour...

Ryan Murphy is just producing. Janet Mock and Our Lady J and whatever other trans people taking from Paris is Burning are behind this. I did not like the premiere. Elektra back to being a villian. Boring. She's the Sue Sylvester? You know how they'll drag that out. Kind of negates the whole last season finale/arc that I loved. Angel and the model stuff, no. I'm not expecting much now. They better come up with some storylines QUICK. The put downs and fights at the ball are getting old.

[quote]They better come up with some storylines QUICK. The put downs and fights at the ball are getting old.

Why don't you just call FX and tell them to cancel it?

[quote]They better come up with some storylines QUICK.

Did you miss Blanca losing her job, Angel getting #MeToo'd, Elektra becoming a villain again, and the whole HIV/AIDS storyline? Damon's boyfriend is returning home so that should feed some drama as well.

“Stunning pictures. I also heard from my colleague how you and your... friends... beat him senseless to steal them. A professional model needs to be professional, and your actions are anything but. It’s truly unfortunate.”

Does anyone else get this song stuck in their head when they see the title of this show?

R27 I won't have to. R28 Yea I know but it all seems so blah and standard. Of course there will be drama with Ricky feeling himself because he was on tour with Al B. Sure and regret/resentment from Damon. Yadi yada yada. It's only one episode so I'm gonna be more patient. I think I expected more of something. I don't know what. R29 RIGHT. I didn't like how any of that went. It felt like a cop out to me. Maybe Eileen Ford will find out later like Patti Lupone (Oy Vey) will with Blanca. Haha.

I also don't like them playing around with ACT UP history like that. All of a suddenly the House of Evangelista is front and center of the protest. Haha. Yea ok. My boyfriend has completely lost interest and he was the one who made me watch it originally. I don't like their 90s stock footage spliced in either. Feels disjointed to me. First season didn't need that. But they never could get a proper street shot that didn't have modern cars and background.

I’m relieved the horrible Damon had very little to do this episode, but I’m sure we’ll have to ensure him and Ricky at same point; Damon and his “dancing” was the worst part about season 1 (remember his horrible audition?”)

In the previews, it looks like Blanca is opening her own nail salon? How does that work — from scraping by to pay the rent and put food on the table, to renting a retail ground floor space in NYC?? Righhhttt.

Also, why don’t the rest of her “children” get jobs?? Certainly the two queeny guys aren’t in school to better themselves.

Despite my complaints above, I do like the show and am glad it’s back.

^^ ugh ensure = endure

[quote]I also don't like them playing around with ACT UP history like that. All of a suddenly the House of Evangelista is front and center of the protest. Haha. Yea ok.

How did you get that? They went to a rally run by Bette Midler's daughter Sophie, and learned of the protest and attended. There were lots of people filling the aisles. The camera focused on them because that's who the show is about. I never got any impression they were in charge or the center.

Thank you R24. I wasn't paying attention and only saw Gwyneth part of the name.

R35 That's what it felt like. I guess. If you say so. I'll let it slide. They set it a year later too. Bothers me. It's cool someone is dramatizing the ballroom world though. I wish the real people were all here to see it. Only probably a handful.

This the worst show.

Billy Porter needs to be in a Motivo

I'm curious what all of a sudden makes Our Lady J and Janet Mock television writers. Or writers at all. Didn't these two run Transparent into the ground? Just because you've had the chop, it doesn't suddenly imbue you with talent and skill to write. I don't care if you've had a particular experience (which, btw, is one fragment of Pose), that's why writers do research. It's like HBO going out and hiring Mathilde Krim and Anthony Fauci to adapt And the Band Played On.

This is on again?

R41 yes. Love it.

I read an interview with Ryan Murphy who said the last season will be set in 95 - 96. So there is at least another season. Also, Janet Mock or one of those people said they wanna potray trans people with a positive light and life. To show them that they have a place in this world. So I don't think there will be any grim endings for anyone like the people it is inspired from (i.e. beating up the photographer, robbing the musuem with no consequences). I do wonder if Elektra will take the Dorian Corey storyline and murder a man and then stash him in her closet. haha. She ends up in trouble again later. R40 I know. I totally had the same thoughts. I really hated Blanca's line about Roy Rogers. Ugh. They just had to throw that in there for authenticity and it sounded so amatuer. Not like real dialogue. They definitely went back to another viewing of "Paris is Burning" before writing this season. Now we're hearing the slang words clock and mop. Angel's storyline, Vogue, Roy Rogers etc...

[quote]the last season will be set in 95 - 96

So just when the protease inhibitors came out. It's going to be awful seeing who made it and who didn't.

The irony of the first episode is that its script erased gay white men from ACT UP to being mere extras, and was written by three gay white men who weren't doing any activism in the 1990s.

White gays need to be that attention seeking huh?

Black trans need to be that big of credit grubbing liars, huh?

R12 is correct. The dialogue is now pedantic and instructive and in no way resembles the way people actually talk.

It's always been an imperfect show, but it deserved kudos for doing something different. Last night's premiere somehow very stale and preachy. And Bernhard's acting was stiff as a board.

It's crazy but this show got even preachier than it was in season 1.

Ryan should have had "Fame" playing in the background when that actress was forced to remove her clothes by the pervy photographer. That was a missed moment for some levity that is so badly needed in this show.

They even stole the time jump from "Paris is Burning" by placing it in 1990 just like the ending of the film. Seeing articles about "why the time jump?" and the importance of Madonna and Vogue going mainstream like there was some deep reasoning behind it on their part. haha. No, they just took it from the documentary. Did anyone notice the salon customer saying to Blanca, "Z100 has been playing it nonstop. It's gonna be the song of the summer" and then she winked at Blanca. Haha. Come on. And the clerk at Hart island with all the attitude saying, "Welcome to Hart island. Just a mass grave of people who's families couldn't afford a burial or unclaimed bodies from the morgue." Who talks like that? Pray Tell and Blanca wouldn't know that already? They were explaining to us, the audience, but a total amatuer way.

Contrary to an earlier post up thread , I read that Evan peters actually is returning to pose for a second season.

R51 sure hope so.

I don't know who said Lil Papi is straight but he's not, he said in season 1 that he's an "equal opportunity lover", meaning bisexual. And I feel like he's about to have a thing with Angel which is good because I'd like to see his body up close.

r53 I think he was referring to his prostitution clients, not to his actual orientation. Meaning, he's willing to go gay for pay if the money's good.

R54 got it right.

Did DL have a thread about Season 1? I can't find anything. I just watched it all on Netflix over the weekend & was surprised I really liked it. It seemed kind of corny and like a watered down Paris is Burning in previews, but it delivered a lot more. The only annoying thing was that Electra has a weird way of speaking or maybe it's just bad acting - but it keeps taking me out of the scene because it sounds like she's reading lines in her head. Everything else, I like. I never saw Billy Porter in anything but he's great.

[quote]Did DL have a thread about Season 1? I can't find anything.

r56 It had a couple of them but this was the main one. I think the other big one might have been deleted because the comments were so nasty.

Thanks r57. Yeah the T comments can get pretty bad. I was actually a little surprised that most of the leads are trans... and we (so far) have no gay male drag queens as main characters. Billy is a major gay character - so there's that, but he's not doing any of the balls. Regardless, the first season arc and storytelling was pretty good. I hope it doesn't spin off into some nonsense like other Murphy projects.

I have been debating if I could post this - but I honestly felt like the "houses" - especially Blanca's house - gave me a Golden Girls vibe. I doubt they were trying for that but it was very much about the chosen-family who will stick with you...and the shenanigans you get into with that family. It's hard to recreate what GG had - the "heart" of that show is a rare thing on tv, but they seem to have some of it here.

r58 I think the two young gay guys who do drag balls (the ones who helped Elektra with her Marie Antoinette act) and who also featured in the first season are just dancers in real life and so the showrunner probably didn't trust them enough to deliver extensive lines.

I agree that the family theme is huge in this show and it's exactly what makes it so transgressive.

Strike a pose!

R59 You are aware Pose is based on a real thing, right?

r61 What exactly about my post implies otherwise? The mainstream audience consuming this show is largely unaware of the real thing or the original documentary. So yes, to them, a show featuring marginalised people (at the time and to this day) behaving as if they're one big family is very much considered transgressive. As I see from the comments on bigger sites that review this show and on Twitter.

The world is quite a bit larger and decidedly less gay than this DL bubble you seem to be caught in.

R62 How stupid do you think people are? You don't have to be a DLer to have heard of Paris is Burning and everyone on the planet knows the song Vogue. If anyone who watches the show hadn't heard of the ballroom scene it wouldn't take them more than ten seconds to find out more. Not everyone out there is braindead and lacking the ability to look things up.

R56 There is a first and second thread on the first season. The second thread is still active along with this one for Season 2. Good luck with the new search engine!!! haha.

https://www.datalounge.com/thread/21610513

Renewed for a third season!

Pose was always going to be three seasons. The third is the last.

I mean, that was the plan on the showrunners' part, but the network obviously cares about the ratings and critical acclaim, not the creatives' plans.

R67 Right. I posted about it.

I love Electra. She looks FIERCE

That guy's body was hot.

R71 he was ok. Did nothing for me.

Elektra walking down the street was beautifully shot and she looked phenomenal. Also, she’s not saying her lines flat in this episode. She has a lot of personality

I loved Penelope Cruz winning. She was humbled.

Wrong thread

Ricky is so hot and Damon is so underserving.

I don’t like Damon. Idk why but I don’t. Ricky is a cutie.

I love Patti Lupone

What was that cheesy shit with the name titles for Elektra’s new recruits. That was odd...

I love this show but good God the script tonight is TERRIBLE.

R77 this episode has been a lot lighter and more fun imho. I love the show but it’s always heavy. Tonight has been fun and sorta campy.

The word “fuck” is being used a lot tonight. Janet Mock clearly likes that word.

Since when did that word get past censors on basic cable?

I LOVED THE LINE ABOUT GENTRIFICATION. SO MUCH TRUTH.

I love how that guy told Damon to lose 10 lbs. He carries it all in his face.

Is it me or is Billy Porter kind of annoying this season? Just a little bit...?

R77 R78 My thoughts exactly. I think it's GLEE roots are showing. haha. Did anyone catch in the credits that the consulting producer is fucking Jennie Livingston! This bitch is still profiting from these people.

I thought the episode was a bit too on the nose and some of the dialogue was cringeworthy. But I thought MJ Rodriguez did a great job and she held her own with Patti.

OH, and this...

The acting on this show is such a mixed bag. Ranging From truly great and naturalistic to obviously amateurish.

Yeah r87. We have some great acting happening and then other moments it’s bad.

Papi is a terrible actor, idc how “cute” he is.

MJ Rodriguez should stop wearing sleeveless. It exposes that she’s trans and not cis. Women don’t have that body type.

Elektra is amazing. Idc what y’all say.

There’s something so heartbreaking and moving about MJ’s performance. She has so much charisma and exudes so much warmth and authenticity. It’s really a stellar performance. I suspect they will eventually kill off Blanca and that will rank up there as one of the most crushing on screen character deaths.

Angel will be the next house mother when Blanca dies.

R89 Your probably right. Realistically, her prognosis was just not survivable during the time period this show takes place. In the scene during season one where she says "I always knew I wasn't going to be long for this world" , something about it rang so true. A lesser actor would have made it sound like pure melodrama but it just seemed so real.

I agree R89, MJ’s performance is heartbreaking and wonderful, and I’ve thought so since season 1. She deserves an Emmy. And Papi’s crying made me well up too. He killed that scene (and is sexy as fuck too).

❤️❤️❤️❤️

MJ Rodriguez and Indya Moore are both sensational and give the best performances.

But I feel Billy Porter is going to get the biggest push for an Emmy because he knows how to work PR (see his recent attention-grabbing appearances) and he has perhaps the showiest performance.

But Rodriguez and Moore are far more deserving.

Can anyone shed light on historical accuracy of any of the events?

As posted above, the church protest happened. Also, I'm certain that fights did happen at balls sometimes (and likely still do).

Did Leona Helmsley really have a run in with a trans person running a nail salon in her building?

Did Ford ever really hire a trans model?

R95 No and No.

So Janet Mock and Papi are dating in real life?

Ford models dropped edgy models in the early 80s and helped create the super models such as Turlington. in the late 80s or early 90s they would not have hired a tranny. That plot point on Pose is extremely far fetched as the photog was a friend of the agency head and would have bad mouthed the tranny and friends who beat him to pulp.

R98 they don’t know Angel is trans.

R99 I thought they made her drop her knickers? Once that happens no trans is ever going to "pass".

R100 the photographer did. It was just him and her. They got the photos and negatives back so he has no proof of it.

Ford doesn’t know (at least yet) that she’s trans.

Did they NAME that character Eileen Ford on Pose??????

Papi is so adorable.

Papi is very cute

R102 Angel called her Ms. Ford. No mention of a first name yet but In PARIS IS BURNING Eileen Ford is the one there at the modeling search. The photographer knew Angel was trans before "she" dropped her knickers. It was confirmed after that. He would have told Ford as they were friends just as the others who in this thread have mentioned. Ford would have believed him immediately without proof and he would tell anyone else in the industry. Angel would be blacklisted. Angel would have gotten away with nothing. We still might see that happen. If it doesn't, then it's bullshit.

He didn’t tell Ford because Angel will tell on him for what he did to her and try getting him in trouble, WITH THE LAW.

Yeah, no, R106.

Yeah, yes. R107

As a matter of fact, you do not have legal right to return, after the event, to a non-denounced alleged perpetrator of a crime and beat him to a pulp.

But he doesn’t have right to do what he did either.

Both are wrong.

Who would not think Blanca isn't a woman? And who would be so vocal about it?

huh?

R91 - It may not have been the norm, but i will say that I met someone in 1988 who had recently become HIV+ and today, he is still going strong. So, it may not have been the story for most at the time, there were a few who have had a full, long life.

R108 Definitely NO. Especially in 1990 NYC. haha. A prostitute from the piers too. Haha. NO.

r114 he never said anything.

I am loving tonights episode. Its so much fun and Elektra centered. I love that crazy bitch.

You all are gonna bitch about this episode but its actually a VERY fun one lmao

Surprisingly, Elektra is getting some character development. Bitch with a heart.

Dorian Corey storyline. Just like I said. Horrible show. I'll finish this season but no more. R115 Yea it's a bullshit show.

Ryan Murphy uses real events for his shows all the time... have you never watched American Horror Story? He always uses Real people and murders etc. for plots and stories in his shows... this isn't new.

I am pretty sure many shows take real events and use them for stories on their shows.

Watch Law and Order.

R119 No, I don't watch Ryan Murphy crap because he's a cornball. R120 I'm pretty sure Law and Order states that their storylines are ripped from the headlines. This shit is predictable and lame and soooo unrealistic. But I know we are living in the fake fantasy era. So...

r121 did you just watch the ending where they show a Dorian Corey quote? The episode just acknowledged him.

Now you can stop throwing a tantrum.

I wonder how long until someone exposes Angel.

R123 It's never gonna happen because this show lives in fantasy land. R122 Yea I saw. Hardly a tantrum. Don't be mad at the truth.

r123 I think that's what they are setting up.

Fun episode. Love Elektra.

I thought Dominique was actually pretty good tonight.

The time period of pose was one of the relaxer and the Jerri curl - i think this detail is being ignored - I keep seeing natural hair everywhere - notice the hair of the participants at the balls and in other scenes - they aren't portraying the desperation to have straight hair at that time - I remember what it was like - people didn't go out without doing something to straighten their hair, especially if they were fashionistas - of course ethnicity and nationality would give someone like angel the head of hair she has naturally .....

Because next week is a holiday week, we gotta go two weeks until the next episode. Damn it!

Damon is so inconsistent. In some scenes, the actor plays him like he’s Blanche Deveraux. In the next, he’s Tupac. This actor is the motherfucking WORST.

Dominique did well tonight. Loved the episode

I can't stand Damon r130. He's annoying, and definitely the weak link. You can tell they don't know what to do with his character because tonight they just seemed to stick him in the episode "Oh, Angel, you can get any man."

You love Elektra? Elektra sucks. He's a shit actor. Worse than Damon. The show sucks. Fun episode? It's fucking rubbish. You all are fucking brain dead.

Don't watch it your nasty cunt.

Fuck off you nasty cunt r133

I enjoy the show but let's face it, it is hardly realistic. Blanca is the house mother of two prodigies: one is a homeless man from PA she found in the park who has a 2 year scholarship to a prestigious dance program and the other is a tranny also from the streets who is now running a major make up campaign. Big companies always do a background search on any model they will use for a national campaign because of the huge expense to pull displays out of stores and change labels if there is a scandal. No company would use someone like Blanca for a national campaign without any prior experience. Lil Papi goes from selling drugs to working a double shift at the bodega. How many drug dealers leave the money they make to work minimum wage at a bodega? Not happening.

If all of the above were from real life events, Blanca would be a true saint

I meant Angel with a national make up campaign

R136 he left drug dealing because it was either he be homeless and drug deal or get a regular job and have a home and family... did you watch season one?!

R138. Yes I did watch. Very very very improbable that a drug dealer would listen to anyone and give up cash in hand to work in a bodega and follow rules and work a double shift no less. Pure fantasy, but fun nonetheless.

R139 it’s not when there are many that were once drug dealers that stopped.

Get cultured.

Peppermint looked HUGE

So Frank De Julio is a snack...

Love his schnoz in particular.

R142 is Frank the twink who was briefly in the House of Evangelista but bailed and is now part of the House of Abundance? If so, he looks great and should be naked more often

r143 No, he's the guy who overdosed in the latest episode!

You were probably thinking of Jason A Rodriguez, who also looks good and a bit like a clean-shaven Frank De Julio.

I don’t like either of the two guys that keep house hopping. I find them both creepy.

They come across as creepy because they don't get any lines.

Part of what was so great about this episode was how little Pray Tell there was.

He would have been over the top this episode.

Loved it being Blanca and Elektra with Candy of all people, who was fun.

R147 no I feel the way they carry themselves is creepy.

They don’t get lines cause they aren’t actors. You see how forced the few lines they do get comes off?

I don't find anything creepy about how they carry themselves. They're just exuberant young gays who think they'll never get old and that the whole world is at their feet, that's all. I thought those couple of lines they got were delivered competently enough, especially in the second season. Better than most actual actors on Shadowhunters, certainly.

R139 You are wasting your breath. These idiots will not listen. They will keep feeding into the fantasy and the bullshit. Like I said, they are brain dead. They don't want reality, they want the fantasy. Angel getting a modeling campaign. lmao. Get the fuck outta here. This show must give you losers hope or something. haha. Enjoy it now. And the two house hopping twinks are definitely creepy and weird. I saw a candid video of the one playing Cubby on Instagram and he literally gave me the creeps. The way they film him on that show is not how he really looks. He's one of those ugly people that translate well to film. The other with the big nose is a waste of space.

R140 Get a fucking clue and stop making excuses for bad writing. WAKE UP.

R151 ITS A TV SHOW. NOT A DOCUMENTARY. CALM THE FUCK DOWN CUNT.

WE WATCH IT TO BE ENTERTAINED, NOT TO LEARN. FUCKING TRASH ASS BITCH.

^^^Another brain dead idiot. Your life must be extremely boring if you find this shit entertaining. And who doesn't wanna learn? Dummies, that's who.

It's trying to be both; entertainment, and an after-school special on "the AIDS."

It ends up being neither.

I like the way people say "couture" in this series.

Very fun series.

I would watch a series with just Elektra, Candy and that tranny “fixer” alone. They had a great and hilarious dynamic together.

I agree, r159. I LOVE Candy. To be honest, she gives the best comebacks of all of them.

Papito has great nipples

Loved when they stared playing that “Shame” song while they were tying up the body.

I plotzed again when Anita Baker came on at the end of the 2nd episode. Amazing.

The music is fantastic.

This season is definitely better than season 1. I like that they've pretty much written Damon out of the show. That actor is a total dud.

We need more Patti LaBelle. She was amazing in her episode. I think she could get an Emmy nomination.

We need more Patti LuPone everywhere on TV. I'm still hoping against hope John Logan casts her again in the new Penny Dreadful - she was just transcendent in the first one.

Though I don't think she's getting an Emmy nom for Pose; it's a pretty broad role.

Does this show actually get ratings or is it FX trying to be woke?

The show is extremely popular on social media. It's always trending when it airs.

I agree about Damon r163. The actor and character are both dull. And i find both so sanctimonious. Like when Damon was telling Angel she could do better than Lil Papi. It was like, bitch, you're no prize yourself.

No amount of tweets can repair juvenile scripts and hammy acting.

Papi (the actor) announced he's straight on IG, if anyone here cared about his sexuality.

The last episode with Elektra hiding the dude's body in a box in her closet was beyond ridiculous. It reminded me of the movie "The Hunger," where Catherine Deneuve stored all the bodies of her former lovers in caskets in the basement.

Ryan Murphy also conjured up "The Hunger" in the "American Horror Story: Hotel" season's opening sequence. It was almost a shot by shot recreation of the opening scene of "The Hunger."

Blanca is so cross-eyed sometimes even I can see it!

R169 But the thing is the mummified body in the drag queen’s closet is based on a real incident- truth is stranger than fiction. Though I got slammed for saying it on a thread, being told it’s all based on real life and I needed to watch Paris is Burning.

Real life or not, it's a funny example of the scripts' "mopping" real life, in an (unintentionally?) comic way.

Reduce trans history to fables and ripoffs? Thanks, Brad and Ryan et al!

Which cast member is Ryan Murphy dipping with?

It’s back tonight, bitches.

Why is Pray Tell always so nasty to Candy?

This is sad. RIP Candy.

Fuck you R176 and your spoilers

Omg I’m sorry r177 I was just sad.

Next week is a Ricky centered episode.

Damon wasn’t in this episode at all and everyone else was, and he doesn’t seem to be in next weeks either. I wonder if they dropped him and aren’t acknowledging it.

Yeah, it's obvious they are not making Damon a big part of this season unless he has his own episode coming up. He just isn't interesting, in my opinion. I actually forget he's on the show since Blanca, Elektra, Angel, Candy, Lil Papi and Ricky are much more interesting.

Lil Papi's storyline isn't interesting. In fact, the audience knows very little about Lil Papi. Both Damon and Lil Papi could leave and I wouldn't really notice.

Dyllon sure does know how to fill out a speedo

R182 SEXY

Ironic that it turns out Candy actually sucks at lip syncing. What was that??? Why didn’t she open her mouth wider? That was a painful lip sync to a wonderful song. So annoyed they killed her off. I get why they did but she will be missed.

I actually loved Candy. She was funny as hell and full of energy. I hated how Pray Tell would treat her.

She will certainly be missed.

I would rather them have killed off annoying LuLu.

R182 pity the illustration doesn't show the filling at all.

R169 they were in the attic, Rose.

[quote]Damon wasn’t in this episode at all and everyone else was, and he doesn’t seem to be in next weeks either. I wonder if they dropped him and aren’t acknowledging it.

Damon was there last night. He had no lines but he was in the episode. And unless the previews are misleading us, it looks like he and Ricky are both the focus next week.

[quote]Lil Papi's storyline isn't interesting. In fact, the audience knows very little about Lil Papi. Both Damon and Lil Papi could leave and I wouldn't really notice.

I think people don't mind Lil Papi being uninteresting because he's hot as fuck.

The character is dim, cute and earnest, like the actor? Hot as fuck? Hmmmm

He’s cute but not hot as fuck.

Damon wasn’t there last night.

so is Damon done with the whole dance school thing?

I didn't care much for last night's "very special" episode. It seemed a bit heavy handed and while I liked the Candy character, I wasn't so invested in her that it warranted such a melodramatic and emotional conclusion to her nonexistent story arc. The emotion felt very manufactured and forced, as if we were supposed to care about this character that we hardly saw or knew. If it were one of the main characters that passed, it would have had a bigger impact and carried more weight. I'm assuming this was partially inspired by the death of Venus Xtravaganza from 'Paris is Burning' who died under similar tragic circumstances at the hands of a trick.

Besides HIV-related events, what were white gays doing during this time period?

R193 the underground trans ballroom was almost all people of color. Most White trans and gays did their own thing, not this.

R193 Yes, what "things" were those?

If the show was more realistic, Lil Papi would have been arrested and on bail at least 5 times since the show began. He is a tranny chaser with no education who sells drugs and possibly prostitutes himself. The show makes it seems like they have all the free time in the world to plan the next outfit for the ball. The fact that the shows ignores that most of the characters are low level criminals living off the public dime does a disservice to the story telling.

The show is nice and soapy but it is really a glossy view of things.

R196 you keep on with Papi. This isn’t the first time you claim this. Just shhhhh.

I knew drug dealers that have Never been caught.

r195 They had their own clubs. And bathhouses, obviously.

Gays and Trans were never around each other much back then. Trans wasn’t part of the gay community.

I was white, an ivy league grad pretty boy doing arty stuff and arts admin and I went to balls occasionally. I always went to explore "new worlds". Maybe that was post-colonial fetishistic and privileged of me but I had a good time most places and scenes and had some wonderful lovers that way. At least I didn't ignore the city and people in my city. Would go to clubs in the outer parts of the boroughs, met a lover at Brighton Beach and a Ball and a Rice Queen bar, etc etc. Also explored the other way - with the "haves". Fun times all around! Is that still possible? I bet it is, in New York and LA.

r199 that's really not my experience. All you had to do was go to the bars and clubs around Time Square and the far West Side and it was tranny city. I guess you would never, though! Hell, a fair amount of trannies passed through Boy Bar and Pyramid in the 80s.

This show is a technicolor view of things but hey, it's the ONLY attempt so don't be such debbie downers. If you don't have an eye for what's real or what's 2019 entertainment fantasy - that's on YOU!

By the 90's, there were more middle class trans happening particularly in the lesbian scenes.

I believe Angel mentioned that between season 1 & 2 that Lil Papi went back to school to get his GED and now he's got a regular job

Trans weren’t allowed in many gay bars in the 80s. Even in NYC and LA. Look it up.

I thought Angelica Ross gave a terrific performance as Candy. It was overwritten as usual but she really brought it. And we finally understood why Pray Tell had an issue with her.

Episode 4: treacly, maudlin and slow, but Angelica Ross did a fine job with what she was given.

Another script inaccuracy is that of AZT being the sole drug available in 1990. Pray Tell would have learned about DDI, aerosolized pentamidine and other better holistic treatments than butter(!!) at an ACT UP meeting, had his character ever actually returned to a Monday night meeting. The focus on AZT as a sole treatment with worrisome side effects is understandable, as a singular script metaphor, but it's not accurate.

I really could have done without Candy's ghost. Angelica Ross is a great actress but the scenes just felt completely cheesy and out of place. Is Pose now a supernatural show? Or are we supposed to understand the characters all suffer from hallucinations?

Season 2 is very disappointing, all the episodes so far have been super preachy and/or overdramatic. You can tell they're actively trying to make the audience cry, hence losing all authencity. Besides, they're taking way too much liberties with the era. These are not the modern times, there's no way Angel, a brown trans woman and former full-time prostitute from the Pier, would have snatched that modelling contract. And even if she did, she would have had to be somebody's sex slave/mistress in exchange. They tried to introduce that angle with the asshole photographer but of course they ultimately decided to do away with realism. Same goes for Blanca's nail salon, whatever happened to that storyline? To keep it realistic, they should have make the racist landlady hire men to beat Blanca's ass or at the very least threaten her. I get that the'yre trying to show the world that the life of a Queer POC isn't all doom and gloom but now this is just fantasy land.

That episode was dreadful. It made no sense. No one liked Candy, and she was a tertiary character. It made no sense that everyone would come together in collective grief over her, and it was even less believable that Pray would preside over her service. And who the hell paid for that nice casket and beautiful flowers?

Billy Porter sure wants that Emmy. Could he have chewed the scenery any harder in this episode? He's really starting to irritate me.

The only good thing about the episode was Angelica Ross. She's a talented actress. Too bad the show is losing her; it needs all the talent it can get.

Billy Porter wants to steal every scene, cannot stand him

Angelica Ross was the best actor on the show. I think I heard she's going to be on AHS this season? Anyway the writing on this show is so bad it makes me laugh. What was it that Candy's friend (can't remember her character's name) said when she found out Candy had died? "She had just made plans for the future." WTF???? That is the laziest fucking thing I have seen tumble out of a character's mouth in my entire life.

R209 you must be dumb because brown girls were on the up in the late 80s and 90s in the modeling industry.

R213 but tranny hookers weren’t

^^^ Love you!

But they don’t know she’s a tranny Hooker yet. Are you watching?

^^^ This will all end in tears, or murder.

...or a trans actor standing by a chalkboard demanding that we all repeat, "Sylvia and Marsha started all LGBTQI rights. Sylvia and Marsha started all LGBTQI rights. Sylvia and Marsha started all LGBTQI rights. "

R216 Yes, we're watching and laughing because they SHOULD know by now, as Eileen Ford's friend was beaten up for harrassing transgender model Angel and there's no way in hell he wouldn't have told her about this.

Each episode is like a one-off, with no connection to the others. no story arc, except some people get sick and die.

R219 and when Angel was doing that shoot for the cosmetics company, she was changing wardrobe constantly — at some point one of the wardrobe assistants wouldn’t have noticed she had a dick tucked between her legs?

Candy wasn’t a ghost. It was a means of showing how the people in her life reconciled things in their heads.

I have resisted watching as it just sounds all trans all the time, any gay men or lesbian woman characters?

Hallie Sahar, who plays Candy's friend Lulu, was also very good in this episode, especially in the scene where she was visited by Candy's "ghost. They should feature her more prominently; she's got potential.

R220 Right! Everyone seems to have recovered pretty quickly from the trauma of stuffing Elektra's S&M customer's body into the box. It's almost like it never happened!

Since when do funerals last all day?

R227 my mother’s Uncles lasted a few hours here in Brooklyn when I was a teen.

Why are so many people on here re-writing History?

Fact is that many gay bars in the 60s-80s didn’t allow trans in them. Some didn’t even allow anyone but white gays in.

What do people here hate trans? Grow up

They are not hating on trans people r230. They're just pointing out the lack of realism.

And agree about Billy Porter this season. He's very shrill - even more than usual. The fame has definitely went to his head.

Not liking Billy Porter this season at all, meanwhile I found him to be AMAZING during season one. His scenes throughout the first season felt real and authentic. This season not so much.

R230 not anti-trans at all. But I hate the lies that trans were always with gays back then. LGBT wasn’t a thing then. Most gays looked down on trans and didn’t allow them within their spaces.

Of course not all, but many.

Angelica Ross makes history with new "American Horror Story" role: First trans performer to land two regular series roles.

One thing that's lacking for sure this season is the music. The music selections used in season 1 were really well curated and helped transport you back in time. The music this season doesn't seem to be as prominent or have the same impact when it comes to setting the tone of the scenes (with a few exceptions, like Angel's awesome photoshoot scene set to Neneh Cherry's 'Buffalo Stance').

I find it interesting that they put out the press release that Angelica was joining AHS:1984 just after episode 4 aired. They know how talented she is and probably knew fans would be upset she would be off the show because she's one of the best actresses on the show. The thing is they wanted to make the link to black transgender women being killed today so they probably felt they had to kill off Candy to make that resonate; it wouldn't have had as much impact if it was a lesser known character. I think it's a credit to Ross that she made such an impact with little character development (even she admitted this in an interview) and screen time.

R234 the episode where Elektras client dies used good music also.

R235 So he won't be on two shows at once? Gods, all trans do is lie and rewrite history

I'm going to miss Candy yelling, "Fuck you Pray Tell!"

Did anyone catch that ridiculous scene where Ricky comes home and finds Damon laying on his mattress with his hand inside his shorts? That stupid scene and Damon's facial expression...the most hilarious thing ever.

[quote](with a few exceptions, like Angel's awesome photoshoot scene set to Neneh Cherry's 'Buffalo Stance')

I had forgotten all about that song. It sounded freaking awesome in that scene with Angel. I went right to iTunes after the episode aired and bought it.

[quote]I'm going to miss Candy yelling, "Fuck you Pray Tell!"

For me it's the opposite: I'm really going to miss Pray Tell dragging out "Miss Caaaaannnnnndy."

Pray Tell: "Someone come get this bitch."

Pray Tell loves having Candy kicked out of the ballroom lmao

When they excerpted Snap's "I've Got the Power" I remembered being 23 and dancing at Mars, drunk on free beers from Chip Duckett, with all my twink buddies.

There use of “Black Cat” by Janet was great while Electra’s client got high and then died.

Their*

That same episode had “Nasty Girl” by Vanity playing when Elektra and Blanca show up to speak to Candy. Another great choice.

They should completely rely on music to tell the story in lieu of that awful dialogue. We wouldn't miss much since every other line is about how difficult life for is and how nobody cares about queer people of color, which of course we can easily glean from the show's premise.

The dialogue has become too preachy this season. Angel was making a statement and it sounded like one of Indya's Twitter rants.

I actually think MJ Rodríguez can act but there’s only so much you can do with those preachy dialogue.

I wonder how the actor who plays Damon feels to have been such a central focus when he joined the show and now is reduced to an Under 5.

[quote]I wonder how the actor who plays Damon feels to have been such a central focus when he joined the show and now is reduced to an Under 5.

He should feel damn lucky his awkward acting ass has a job.

I'm sure at home Ryan cries, but he still has a job, is getting paid, has lots of social media followers and he was a Stonewall ambassador so he's doing fine.

I hope they're getting a good dental plan, what with all that scenery-chewing.

I love this season so far. No complaints.

R253 I find it fun.

The first season was a lot of fun. This season is very serious, with big speeches and lecturing every episode. And every sentence starts with "Bitch.."

Billy Porter is insufferable this season, what happened? I loved him last year.

Pose is becoming American Horror Story: Trans Misery. Someone dies every episode now.

To the earlier poster who didn’t understand ghost Candy, she wasn’t really a ghost. It was a way of representing how friends and family were reconciling things in their heads.

"Since when do funerals last all day?"

Ask Aretha, hers went on for days

And who was Pray Tell to gesture her parents to sit down so he could take glory and tell everyone he was going to allow lip syncing after all?

They are her parents. Let them have their time with her casket. He's so annoying this season.

R259- I agree. It’s too much of a what was a good thing. Pray Tell has become totally sanctimonious and insufferable. Even his emceeing is driving me insane this season. Billy Porter was meant to be a supporting actor, not lead. Too much. Just... too much.

I don't know if Billy Porter was supposed to be a supporting actor, since he was seen a lot in the first season. I do agree that he is a bit too much, but for the most part, the show is still must-see TV for me.

Porter was 100% Supporting season one

LOL @ Damon thinking he has it in the bag already.

I'm guessing he's going to be served some Blanca humble pie.

Billy gets an Emmy nom. Now he'll be even more insufferable.

His dress at the awards show will have its own zip code.

Tonight was so much auditioning... not much plot. Just dance dance dance - angst over a relationship - dance.

The Tonya Harding attempt was some campy fun but nothing really happened. Next week looks dramatic. (won't spoil for people who don't watch the previews - been yelled at on reddit for that).

Lord, what a tedious episode. Nice to see Charlayne Woodard again, but other than that, big yawn.

I get tired of Damon being praised as this great dancer. I think Ricky is a much better dancer. He has sex appeal and has more charisma.

I did like the top 10 though.

Are you crazy? Did you not watch Damon's mind-blowing audition earlier in the season? He is sooo super talented! Best dancer in the world!

[quote]Billy Porter is insufferable this season, what happened? I loved him last year.

As much as it pains me to say it, I agree. The writers have taken what people loved about Pray Tell in season one (his catty ball commentary, his angst over being HIV+, etc.) and amped it all up to an obnoxiously ridiculous degree -- as someone upthread said, it's become waaaaaay too much of what was once a good thing. Pray Tell now borders on caricature, not character.

It's like Porter's performance is now ALL IN CAPS ALL THE TIME. It's lost the nuance, depth and subtlety (relatively speaking) it had last year. We're halfway through the season, so hopefully it'll turn around soon.

I feel like too many storylines this season are not being resolved in a timely fashion. Watch them cram everything into the final two episodes. I guess this is what happens when you start filming the season before all episodes have been written. That seems to be the norm for Ryan Murphy shows.

It's been weeks since Blanca opened her nail salon and we haven't heard anything about it. Patti LuPone was the best thing about this season. So where is she?

What happened to Angel's modeling career?

In case you forgot, there's a dead body decomposing in Elektra's closet.

It just feels like this season is all over the place. It doesn't have the focus and charm of the first season.

Patti LuPone is coming back next episode. Her quote in the preview was something like "I don't mind the gays - it's AIDS that's the problem" or something like that. But yea, we haven't even seen a 2 minute scene of her in there... in lieu of an entire episode of pointless auditions for Madonna.

They're doing a Dorian Corey tribute with the dead body. It won't be found until after Elektra is gone.

I still like the season very much but it's definitely not as tight or cohesive as season one. I think the problem is that they are too focused on "messages" rather than letting the story flow naturally. There are too many speeches which take me out of the story and sound like Twitter rants or they sound too contemporary.

I loved Season 1 and feel meh about Season 2. I hope the show hasn't jumped the shark already

The 'Solid Gold' dances were hilarious; I loved that show, but I doubt there was ever a male/male duet.

Waiting for the shoe to drop when they all realize Madonna just mopped their style, then dropped their file!

Up next, Pray Tell gets his extended Camile hospital scenes!

Are we to believe Elektra can afford that huge apartment and accoutrements from working as a dominatrix and restaurant hostess?

R276 yes. People in sex work in NYC made a lot of money if smart. We see Elektra is somewhat smart, and her clients are wealthy white men.

In season one, I rooted for the characters because their storylines were gritty and believable. I felt like I was a part of their world.

In season two, are we really supposed to believe that Angel went from dancing in video booths to landing a major cosmetics campaign on her first call? Or that Damon and his bf almost got picked to tour with Madonna on her Blonde Ambition tour and are now dancing on Solid Gold? Or that Elektra went from barely being able to pay her rent to living in a multi-million $$$ apartment? And all of this in the span of one year.

It was the '90s! Simply EVERYone was on the guest list! Wheeee!

"Waiting for the shoe to drop when they all realize Madonna just mopped their style, then dropped their file!"

I wish! So sick of hearing about their savior "Queen" I just find it tough to believe they'll get real after lauding her every other page of dialogue.

It’s great that they cast so many LGBTQ performers but these folks are terrible actors, lol

Damn, I miss her!!

I know this episode will be Billy's next Emmy reel but I really think MJ Rodriguez is great in this episode.

It was a lot better than last week. I was hoping Billy was gonna go back to when he used to say "Miss Caaaannnndyyyy!" I still think they're going kinda light on the plot between last week and this week being a lot of a dream sequence, but this was at least a much better episode.

MJ's singing voice is still very deep.

Is that her singing or is someone else singing with her just lip syncing over it? It doesn't even really sound like her.

Patti did a nice job. Her character is still over the top, but enjoyable all the same, I would like to see her grab an Emmy before she retires, but I am afraid this performance won’t do it.

R286 that’s “her”. She was born a man and her singing voice still sounds as such.

I think it's always a mistake to have anyone try to do "The Man That Got Away." Better performers than Billy Porter have foundered on it--Streisand, Sinatra.

A little something for the MJ Rodriguez fans: a short interview done nine years ago, before she transitioned. It's a bit like seeing Blanca's little brother. :-)

Hopefully, it also clears up any mystery as to why her singing voice might sound a bit deep.

The voice sounds so much better as a male. As a female, she has a weird throaty thing going on & sometimes it sounds even like a lisp? I don't get it. Is there vocal surgery people can have or something that could do this? It's much smoother and even as a male. I guess the singing is his singing altogether. Strange. I have no idea how it works but I think I remember hearing the voice doesn't really change with the hormones. You have to go to classes for that & it's never that easy to do.

MJ is really good looking - whether a man or a woman.

Sandra Bernhard sang Sometimes It Snows In April by Prince

Food Glorious Food from OLIVER! was the melody to the song performed by Pray Tell and Blanca

I loved Sandra Bernhards lovely green sequined dress.

Elektra perfromed too, it was great :)

Yes, r296. She did Sooner or Later by Madonna. Is Madge going to guest star??

R289 Barbra? Frank? Judy Garland!!

All the singing save Patti’s was HIDEOUS. At least they had fun with Miss Elektra.

I like the wink-wink of the gang having no one available to sing at their crappy little event so they'll just have to settle for a song by Patti LuPone.

Billy Porter’s rendition of The Man that Got Away was awful. He’s officially jumped the shark. You can see his Emmy thirst in every scene and it’s on flamboyant display in that train wreck of a “number.”

Agreed r301. He's become very shrill and every scene is at a 10+, no nuance.

The last episode was like his second Emmy reel but I thought MJ was far better.

What happened to Sandra B’s acting? It’s horrendous. She was legitimately great in The King of Comedy and so funny on Roseanne. Now her acting is so stilted and her line deliveries are super awkward.

Billy Porter is the Susan Hayward of our time.

God, that last episode was insufferable! Why does Ryan Murphy always have to have some fucking "Glee" episode in all his series?

And I agree - Billy Porter is the Susan Hayward of our time. Or the Faye Dunaway as Joan Crawford of our time.

The first season was perfect.

Say what you will about Kate Mara, James Van Der Beek and Evan Peters, but they were supporting players who were integral to the stories, whereas I feel with Sandra Bernhard and Patti it's like "Look it's Patti! Looks it's Sandra! They're singing!! They're guest starring!"

I miss the subtlety and intimacy of season one. It really was a perfect season.

I agree, r306. This season is the epitome of sophomore slump. It feels like they never expected to get a second season and when they did, they didn't really have a fully fleshed out blueprint of where to take these characters and none of the episodes feel like they're leading to a future payoff. Also, time leaping to 1990 from 1988 (where the previous season left off) just so they could incorporate the release of Vogue and build a thin storyline around it was not worth the effort.

r307 I agree. I think they could have spent at least one more year in the '80s.

Glam!

I feel like POSE is like Dynasty for gay/trans POC.

I'm here for it.

^^^ More like Melrose Place set in Harlem.

This episode is boring so far....

My God this episode is TERRIBLE.

Thank God, though, for Elektra. Her one liners are hilarious.

And Angel's ass is very nice.

I haven’t seen Paris is Burning. Do/Did voguers really win those tacky trophies?

Papi need to speak less and strip more.

Janet Mock is certainly showing off her Papi this episode.

So, Angel is now a drug addict? Lord.

R317 She's been showing off her Papi every episode this season. Making it obvious they were fucking even before they officially announced they were dating. Papi literally stole Damon's lines/screentime without further explanation.

[quote]Papi literally stole Damon's lines/screentime without further explanation.

They're both terrible actors so I guess it's a wash. This was the worst episode yet, by quite a wide margin. The writing has just fallen apart this season.

The scene between Ricky and Pray Tell was good; the rest... a mess.

Yeah but we all saw that coming right? re: Ricky.

Didn’t Damon and Ricky fuck after the tour and without condoms?

Yes, R323.

I know it’s manufactured drama but could we not with the drugs and the model bullshit??

That scene in the hospital was so sad.

Glad Blanca got her nail salon back.

So, they're mopping from ACT UP yet again by inserting Black and trans people into a tiny protest done by six white guys and a white woman with a huge condom wrapped over Jesse Helms' house.

WTF, bitches? Script writers are so empty-headed, they're just stealing from actual history. Tiresome.

Wasn't the nurse who told him he was HIV+ an unusually big cunt? Who says "what did you expect - you sleep with everyone without a condom!" Nobody ever said anything even close to that when I had HIV tests through the 90s. The results were negative but still... then they went on to say "here are some condoms, make sure you have lube, etc..." If it's positive, I've heard the visit can last over an hour & they have actually trained counselors talk to the person (even with minimal counseling training, probably less than a LCSW) What were they trying to portray with that exactly? There are certainly cunt nurses out there but usually not in the HIV testing area in that era. I don't know... Maybe some people have had other experiences... but thankfully, not where I have gone.

Nobody properly trained would have said that. They all had very clear scripts to recite to testees.

I like that they paid homage to some of the most famous ACT UP demos like The St. Patrick's Cathedral demo and the giant condom over Jesse Helms' house. As long as they can meld it onto the shows characters' motivations, and the original intent of the action is kept intact.

This kind of history is important. These demos were so over the top, you couldn't easily write better ideas than something that actually happened.

Also, when these episodes air, fans of the show and other people's social media threads suddenly have several new articles about the actual events they're based on being passed around, with quotes from people who were there.

Why not?

Case in point...

"If it's positive, I've heard the visit can last over an hour & they have actually trained counselors talk to the person (even with minimal counseling training, probably less than a LCSW) "

Yes, that's what I want to watch on TV on a Tuesday night.

More revisionist twaddle. It's not an 'homage,' it's historical theft by trannies, and not even trannies, but white gay male script writers thieving for trannies.

... unless Mock wrote this equally inane episode script.

[quote]Yes, that's what I want to watch on TV on a Tuesday night.

Obviously they didn't have to show that. They just needed to omit the part where she was like "what did you expect, slut?" She should've told him the news like the other nurses told PrayTell and Bianca. If he needed counseling - it could've been simply shown by cutting to PrayTell sitting in the hall waiting, looking at his watch, and having a worried / knowing expression about what was going on. No Dr. Melfi session was required.

So if Papi loves Angel so much, he thinks it's good for her to take coke? And let's her go to a modeling gig looking like that??

Indya Moore is playing a cis woman in a supporting role in the upcoming film “Queen & Slim”. It looks decent.

In the next episode, Pray Tell gives Tony Fauci a lap dance and halts the National Institutes of Health with a death drop!

R334 By "supporting role," do you mean wearing a bikini and sitting on a dude's lap?

ACT UP Had a Diversity Problem. Should ‘Pose’ Correct it?

--

It challenged me, then, when the most recent episode, “Blow” (7/30/2019), left me feeling unsure about the show’s creative choices and how it playfully reimagines an iconic, real-life moment in AIDS activism – and not for the first time. Processing the episode led to some very real revelations about the history of AIDS activism and its complicated relationship with race and gender.

The set-up: Blanca and Pray assign their young family the AIDS activism task of covering the home of Frederica, Blanca’s bigoted landlord, with an enormous condom. “Killing two birds with one stone,” says Blanca, because she wants to embarrass Frederica as much as send a message about the need for condom use during the most murderous years of AIDS.

The giant condom plan is based on a real 1991 event, when ACT UP member Peter Staley orchestrated the installation of an enormous condom-type cover on the home of notorious homophobe, bigot, and HIV prevention enemy, U.S. Senator Jesse Helms.

This intersection of fact and fiction harkens back to the Pose season opener, when the racially diverse cast is inserted into the famous ACT UP “Stop the Church!” protest. News footage of the real-life action would suggest the activists on the scene were primarily white.

Meanwhile, Peter Staley and his gang of co-conspirators (the “Tag Helms Seven”) who covered the home of Senator Helms consisted on six white gay men and a white woman. The activists in the Pose recreation consisted of black and brown men and trans women. Which of these things is not like the other?

Let me tread lightly here. It was delightful to see Pose reimagine the actions of ACT UP with their cast of black and brown faces and diverse gender expression. But it has been suggested the episode discredits history, or the contributions of white gay men. Is Pose guilty of “activism appropriation?”

Pose is "correcting" a whole lot about that era. The show is a fairy-tale version of the actual NYC transgender/ball culture scene of the '80s. I enjoy it, but it's about as far from reality as you can get.

The ball culture wasn’t white.

I'm watching Pose for it's dramatic entertainment, not reality. It's not a documentary.

R340 Exactly!

it's dramatic?

It is dramatic?

You certainly didn't go to school for the English lessons, R340.

A Public Facebook post from ACT UP alumnus Robert Vazquez Pacheco:

As a former member of ACTUP's Majority Action Committee and one of its few surviving members, I am offended by these reimaginings of what happened in ACTUP. There is a big difference between what happened and what some people wish had happened. There were very few people of color at those Monday night meetings. That is a fact. I know because I was one of them. What worries me is that these fictions begin to be seen as the truth.

Why not focus on what people of color actually did back then instead of making shit up? There are still people of color who lived through those times and can offer some insight and possibly even some truth. There were people of color fighting for their communities at that time. Fighting against a system that had and has always treated them badly. Because those fights, in Medicaid offices or churches or hospitals are not as glamorous as what POSE is depicting doesn't invalidate them. Making shit up does not correct or change what actually happened.

And finally why is Peter Staley commenting about what people of color were doing or not doing?

And how the fuck is POSE going to correct ACT UP's diversity problem? By making shit up?

{r342} is a rabid cunt

And R344, you're an illiterate douche cunt who doesn't even know how to use parentheses.

[quote]I miss the subtlety and intimacy of season one. It really was a perfect season.

Ditto, R306 and others upthread. I find it all very sad, and I no longer anxiously await the next episode week to week. It's like the showrunners have no clue what to do with any of the characters, so they keep coming up with directionless storylines , preachy/educational speeches and stunt casting (Bernhard, LuPone) to fill season two.

The most recent episode was all over the map -- Angel tries coke at a party, the show goes to commercial and comes back... and suddenly she's a tweaked-out mess in what feels like maybe 48 hours? And amen to the poster above who cited Papi's shockingly cavalier attitude to her new habit. He used to sell drugs, how/why would he legitimately believe the photographer was offering up "vitamins"?

Elektra hates Blanca, loves Blanca, hates Blanca again, loves Blanca again... ? Seriously?? And what about the decomposing body in her closet?!

The cabaret in season one (f. Rodriguez and Porter singing "Home") made me weep; this season's waaaaay-too-long cabaret segment had me rolling my eyes with every single performance. Again, the producers took season-one gold, tried (unsuccessfully) to recapture the magic and, instead, made it all feel like uninspired recycling.

See also: those group dinners in almost every episode. They've already become clichéd and forced. Friends and frenemies coming together to break bread at the end of the season one finale was perfect; now, those dinners have lost all meaning. And whoever said Billy Porter's Emmy thirst is on display in every scene nailed it: I half-expect "For Your Consideration" to scroll by in the lower-third each time he's onscreen.

The only saving graces this season have been MJ Rodriguez and Angelica Ross, who both continue to turn in fine work.

Didn’t we get to see where Pray Tell lives in a season 1 episode? Why is he always sitting at Blanca’s table?

R347 because that’s his friend and he visits her.

In case you forgot his BF died. He’s alone now.

Pray Tell getting that Vitamin D!!

Damon gonna be pissed!

Did everyone stop watching??

The last few weeks were lackluster but tonight was really strong. Billy Porter was really good tonight and he has dialed back the histrionics. Even the actor who plays Damon was excellent tonight.

I still don't fight Angel as interesting this season, though. She's whiny and her nasal voice is grating.

*find

Just watched 3 episodes. Ugh - really hate it. The acting is horrible. I watched it after Euphoria - and it’s like a bad web series in comparison. Atrocious plot, writing and acting. Just too painful to watch anymore. Would like someone to share what they like about this mess.

POSE on FX is must see TV

I just realized that one of my favorite queens from the '80s guest-starred back at the beginning of the season.

Patricia Black, who used to perform as Chena Black in Atlanta and Tampa, is a former Miss Continental and Miss Florida FI. Today she's the creative director for the Albright Fashion Library, a leading stylists' resource for red-carpet couture.

Did they write out Ryan Jamaal Swain (Damon)? He's already begging Barry Jenkins for a role in his Alvin Ailey movie.

Prey Tell and Ricky? disgusting! and why is Prey Tell always so damn greasy.

As if Prey could ever hope to get a guy like Ricky.

Is this the last season? It seems like they're wrapping up everyone's stories. And next week, where the Pose turns into an episode Sex In The City on vacation, looks like a definite "jump the shark" moment.

Let's hope so, the whole show is jumping the shark

They are already renewed for a third season.

Really R361. This thing needs to be put out of its misery. It’s horrible.

R362 yes. They got renewed for a third season the night after the season 2 premiere.

This seasons doing well, despite the quality being down.

Actually I am not shocked that the dumber it gets the more people tune in.

Season one was probably too “slow” for some.

Apparently Ryan Murphy will end the series after season 3 or 4. He doesn’t want this series to over run its course.

I really, really liked Season 1 surprisingly. And while Season 2 has its moments, everyone getting a huge break is a bit more wish-fulfillment than reality. If it's ciphering Paris is Burning, it needs a bit more melancholy. We saw that in Season 1, and we're really not seeing it this season excepting Pray in the hospital and Ricky with his diagnosis.

Angel having these huge modeling campaigns? Maybe I could believe a couple of shots in Spiegel (let's bring THAT in <3) or JC Penney Damon going on a big tour right out of graduation? Blanca with her salon? I still don't understand how she has such a nicely decorated salon but could never paint their apartment. Lulu just snapping out of her depression and drug habit? The fall and rise and fall and rise of Elektra Abundance/Ferocity/Evangelista/Wintour?

The one thing I will say is Blanca is so much better this season as far as acting and is very likeable. Candi was a CONSTELLATION this season as well.

This season definitely shows Ryan Murphy curse, though. Still gonna tune in next week for this ridiculous vacation.

No shade, but I think we all need a break from Damon. He is exhausting.

It's all a big fantasy but it's nice to see gays and trans succeeding on screen.

It isn't every day that you can watch a major American TV show featuring two AA men in a romantic relationship.

If it were at all realistic, everyone in the cast would die of AIDS or racist or anti-trans violence by the end, except Papi, who'd be doing porn for the the Latino Fan club.

Are you bitches in a coma? Last night was the best episode of the season bar none. So many memorable scenes and lines. I lived for last night’s episode!!! The kiki brunch scene was hilarious! The graduation party scene was like a death drop...so much tea spilled by Damon. I can rewatch Electra’s facial expressions over and over...

Last night's episode was the best of the season, R369 (tied with the Pray in the hospital scene. Candi being the ghost of Christmas present <3).

Milking dead Candi for every last drop of formaldehyde. They can't write realistic scripts, so why not veer into fantasy land and stay there?

R369, I wouldn't say it was the best episode ever, but I loved the diner scene and would watch a spinoff show with those 4 wonderful queens. And so happy to see Damon go. The character was good, the actor, atrocious and brought down every scene he was in. Ricky, however. Wow!

Dyllon is a much better actor than Ryan. And more charismatic. Damon is too much of a Mary Sue. Everything he does is perfect. And he is smug and self-righteous when it comes to other characters.

Angel and Lil Papi moving to the Village in 1990, very improbable. The buildings there always were strictly monitored for illegal sublets and credit checks were mandatory.

A tranny and a drug dealer would not go over well in that neighborhood.

Angel is a slimy bitch. So are we supposed to believe that she sprouted integrity and volunteered not only to confess her drug use, but ask Blanca to kick her out of the house? She sat there and ruined Damon's graduation party. Then she acts like she's redeeming herself? Bitch already had a plan. She wanted to get kicked out so she wouldn't have to admit that she's dropping everyone for greener pastures. And no resolution to the drug issue? Blanca just hugs Angel and says okay?

I don't like Damon but he redeemed himself in this episode.

Pray and Ricky are disgusting.

Those of us that lived through the early 90s will know that ad campaigns were not known for their diversity. There were very few women of color represented. Angel would never have been the face of Bebe much less Wet and Wild.

Moved to the Village in 1990. It was already solidly yuppie/upper middle class. Even a corporate gay guy could barely get in.

"I want you to have me too."

Ricky ask Pray to fuck him in the ass?

I’m hoping the relationship between Ricky and Pray will die a quick death...the age difference is a turnoff. Twitter was gagging at the price of the flat $450 near the river...the good old days of NYC.

Pray looks more mid 50s than mid 40s....not trying to be a bitchy queen, but his face seems a bit long in the tooth

I thought Billy Porter was in his mid-50s but he's actually 49. He looks slightly older.

I don't mind the Pray Tell/Ricky relationship.

But no way would Pray's pussy be giving up Ricky's dick to top.

Also, where did the rivalry between Angel and Damon come from? Seemed to come from out of nowhere, although I liked Angel taunting Damon because he thinks he's so much better than everyone else.

Lil Papi is a drug dealing wannabe with no education or prospects for the future. Tranny cover girl Angel will end up dropping him for someone who can enhance her career.

Angel is annoying this season. Always whining in that nasal voice.

they don't seem to know what to do with her this season. Sadly, she was more interesting as a hooker.

They foreshadowed something with Angel and the photographer who knows her “secret.” She will be exposed.

I love Pray and Ricky together.

Mother Blanca will be sainted by the Pope if she keeps going this way.....Her character has too much integrity and not enough public assistance

I also like Ricky and Pray together. Ricky and Damon had zero chemistry. Damon just sucks the joy out of every scene. I don't know if it's the actor or the writing but Damon just emits this attitude of his shit don't stink and it is present in all of his scenes.

Will insufferable Damon hopefully go down in a plane crash on the way to a Europe and Lil Papi comes in during a house dinner and announces it like Radar in MASH?

No, r387. Damon will become the world's most beloved dancer. Everything he does turns to gold. It's just ridiculous.

Damon is a little chunky to be a dancer, no?

^^^^Girl!

I was just saying this last night. Damon has the worst posture and there is no way a thickums like him would be a professional dancer.

Damon Must Die! DL has spoken!

Wow they got a little porny with that opening. Might be the most explicit love scene in a non-pay channel yet.

R392, It was very “Queer As Folk” the UK version...I almost clutched my pearls.

How humiliating to be a 19-year-old twink and lose your bf to Billy Stritch. I mean--

Damon flops around like a fish out of water.

You saying Pray isn't sexy?

Pray looks a little too simian

Pose is not as important or good as it thinks it is.

R397 Billy Porter has had A LOT of plastic surgery. His face is tighter than a 16-year old virgin's cooter.

R399, there are no 16-year-old virgins anymore.

Damon is wearing “hammer pants”—did anybody in the real world actually wear those besides U No Who in his music video?

R401 yes

I remember a friend of mine would wear them in Brooklyn.

R401 the meatheads at my gym did. They were white trash with mullets.

R403 my friend was white also. Would wear those pants with no shirt lmao

They also sold those hideous pants in the beloved International Male catalog

Billy Porter is attractive but all the plastic surgery he has had isn't flattering. He looks so tight this season, and it actually makes him look older. I was surprised to learn he's just about to turn 50.

I loved the dinner scene when Elektra walked to the kitchen and returned to find out that Pray had slept with the young'em. I can't remember what she said but it was so funny.

[quote]Are you bitches in a coma? Last night was the best episode of the season bar none. So many memorable scenes and lines. I lived for last night’s episode!!! The kiki brunch scene was hilarious! The graduation party scene was like a death drop...so much tea spilled by Damon. I can rewatch Electra’s facial expressions over and over...

I agree. This was the best episode this season so far. It had sex, laughter, and drama.

The only con is that Blanca brushed off Angel's drug use.

R406 I think Billy Porter has been shaving a few years off his age, in addition to shaving a few wrinkles off his face.

[quote]Pose is not as important or good as it thinks it is

Isn't there some Kardasian marathon you should be watching?

I'm just not feeling the Angel character this season. You can tell they don't know what to do with her character in season two Last season, Indya Moore was fantastic but this season, her story is really cheesy and uninteresting. The whole model story is not believable and pointless. It may only be interesting if she's outed.

The relationship between Angel and Stan was complex and interesting; the relationship between Angel and Lil Papi is superfluous and one-note.

R409 I agree. There's no way he's 49.

Are they setting Angel up to be Gia - the tranny version?

You crazy bitches are blind. Porter is fucking hot as hell.

r414 = Billy

I think R413 is on to something. When Angel took her first snort of cocaine, I immediately thought of that era's models who got hooked on drugs . I didn't think of the Gia scenario, but now that you mention it, I think that would be a good storyline. And we know that Ryan Murphy loves to make reference to real life events.

Is tonight the last episode of the season for this train wreck?

No, R417, still one more to go (next week). It's a 10-episode season.

I'm really hoping the series gets back to season-one quality next year. Season two has been very disappointing overall, and I don't have much hope that the last two episodes will miraculously make up for all that came before.

More vogueing! More awarding of trophies!

Too bad for you, great season and passed last year by miles.

Yes, the Solid Gold episode was riveting TV.

^^^ True, countdowns always add a sense of tension and reveal to a show!

Why do I think R421 was channeling Dorothy Zbornak when he wrote that post?

The revenge of Candy!!! Everyone now looks old and worn....Suck on it Bitches

Tonight's episode was fun. Pure fantasy, yes, but I enjoyed it.

It was far-fetched tonight but enjoyable. The music was great.

Finally, an episode with some life and magic to it! This season has been so dreary and mediocre.

Best episode of the season and the lifeguard was fucking hot

The music was on point...brings me back to high school.

I didn't think I'd like this episode, but I really enjoyed it. Dominique Jackson (Elektra) may not be the best actress in the world, but the way she says her lines make me laugh. She is hilarious and I think she's found her niche. Love her.

Does Elektra not have any volume modulation to her voice? Everything that comes out of her mouth seems to be at full volume and very grating.

This show just seems to becoming a tranny wish fulfillment exercise, revisionist AIDS history activism, instant business ventures, bottomless wardrobe without cost, endless ball trophies, modeling contracts, hunky straight acting lifeguards rescuing you and falling in love and more. Last season had some levels of gritty realism, which seems to be lacking this time around.

The actress who plays Electra reads her lines like a robot. They should replace her in season 3 with Max Headroom--wasn't he still popular in 1990?

That's what makes her funny.

And we know all you queens were Boogie Oogie Ooging during that scene.

Who cares R433? It's not Shakespeare. Dominique is having campy fun with her character. It's a joy to watch her.

R435 No a joy for all of us hun!

Then you don't have to watch R436. Why torture yourself like that? Life is too short to be miserable.

[quote]Finally, an episode with some life and magic to it! This season has been so dreary and mediocre.

That's because Billy Porter was nowhere to be seen. He drags down any scene he's in.

There have been so many unresolved and undeveloped storylines this season. Ryan Murphy doing the very least again.

I wish they kept Candy and killed off Lulu instead. I can't stand her voice.

I'm with you R439 Plot twist--Candy wasn't really a ghost since she never died...see ya, Lulu!

The lifeguard was hot but it's total fantasy. Wonder if Blanca will tell him her status?

Killing off Candy was dumb. Last night's episode would have been even better with Candy. Lulu adds nothing to any of her scenes.

I really hate when they use current day slang in the scripts when no one used the word bougie back then.

MJ Rodriguez wins Best Actress at Imagen Awards:

So, there's rumours that Ryan (Damon) doesn't get along with the cast. You notice he hasn't been at any of the events, including the Imagen Awards. He barely tweets to the other cast members (although he did tweet MJ the other night).

there is di

Oops - computer published message before it was finished.

There does seem to be some divide between Ryan and the rest of the show.

Sophomoric scripts, and everything R432 wrote. It's like trans fan fiction.

I support LGBT entertainment, but this has been a pain. I multitask while half-watching because each scene takes so long to develop, if it ever does.

Also, why the fuck didn't Elektra just dump the corpse in the ocean at night?

I love this show and think there's never been anything like it. But I am fully aware it has turned into full-on soap opera / Melrose Place fantasy mode in season two. The first season had a semi-hold on reality and seemed to tackle issues in a realistically provocative way. Season two? I'm waiting for someone to blow up the apartment complex and reveal their cranial scar under a wig, Still, as a young gay man who lived in NYC in the 1990's... I love it and eat up every episode. I can't complain! (or can I?)

I'm like you r447. The first season was pretty much perfect. The second season has been all over the place. The last episode was fun but it was fantasy. I loved Elektra dragging that white bitch but let's face it, they probably would have been kicked out of that restaurant. And it's unlikely Blanca would have scored a hot lifeguard who was okay with her being trans.

But I enjoy it the same. I am nostalgic for that time period. I can't believe 1990 was so long ago.

R442 Gladys Knight was singing about being bourgie back in 1980.

[442] wasn’t in the scene back then but “that part” took me out of it. that felt way too current

Also, are we done with the weeping seroconversion scenes? That message has been played four times. It truly was an awful time, but they're failing to offer any nuance. I doubt any viewer under 40 years old will get it at all.

Also, the condom/house ripoff of the real Jesse Helms action was just stupid. The real action was a bold political statement, not some petty squabble with a landlord. I don't care if Peter Staley's okay with it.

Despite the bad acting, I find Elektra fun and endearing. Cast her in a remake of "Coffy" or "Cleopatra Jones"!

That white bitch in the restaurant was totally a DLer.

R453 Testify! That table she crawled back to is this very website.

Plus, in the last episode I loved how Damon was like, "OMG I may have seroconverted oh well I'm leaving the nest to go tour europe with Malcolm McLaren I got this entire gig last night goodbye everyone."

[quote]That white bitch in the restaurant was totally a DLer.

Yeah, and she posted at R431.

The last episode reminded me of SATC a little...when the 4 girls went to LA and Carrie got invited to that big mansion by Carrie Fisher's agent, pretending to be someone else. Last season was a little more Golden Girls and this one is more SATC - with less direction. Still entertaining I guess. I just found the drowning incident so manufactured... like they were only going up to their thighs and now she's drowning and getting saved by the hot life guard? Gurl... aright, get your wish fulfillment in there.

Too funny R447 I have compared this season to Melrose Place too! Ridiculous high drama. I'm mostly dsappointed in Ms. Lupone.

R457 At first glance I read "Last season was a little more Golden Girls and this one is more SATC - with less direction, " as "with less diction!" Because of the bad acting.

One nit pick about the last episode that I think is a whopper: no queer person back then said, "sickening looks." Not only did it not exist as a slang term, but people were still dropping dead from AIDS!

The scripts are full of anachronisms, and scenes rely too much on music of the day as segues and to create the setting.

It was nice to see the charm in Elektra come through. For once, you could see why these ladies have her as a friend. She can be fun at times.

I was so annoyed when Pray scolded Ricky for “bottom shaming.” That was not a term in 1990. The anachronisms on this show are super irritating. Also, having to watch that poor hot actor do a sex scene with Billy Porter was enough to make me vom for days.

Speaking of anachronisms, didn't Malcolm McLaren's "Deep in Vogue" come out a bit before Madonna's "Vogue"? Is the show going to have Damon re-create that music video, you think? In addition to being on tour with him? I mean, Angel's starring in Bebe and Wet 'n Wild campaigns, so anything is possible!

Coming up in season 3:

Pray Tell invents the HIV drug cocktail, with butter!

Elektra crashes the Met Opera opening night and sings an aria from "Carmen"! The New York Times raves!

Angel gets on the cover of Vogue and Anna Wintour contours her pipi!

Candi starts Wigstock! from beyond the grave!

Papi gets a job at the Gaiety and is discovered by a porn director! He becomes a gay-for-pay superstar! Then he quits, because he loves Angel, who has become a heroin addict, but quits, because she loves him.

Blanca mopes around her empty unpainted apartment, eating puh-sketti and gulping wine, until her lifeguard man sweeps her off her feet! Then he gets hit by a bus!

Anyone notice how Blanca sounds more like a man when she sings?

R466. Yes.

Blanca’s apartment is gross, and some paint would go a loooong way. But what irks me the most about it is those damn broken interior door windows! Like, isn’t that shit dangerous??? Just knock out the broken pieces, momma!

It's set decor as character; insipid and illogical. She spends her life savings (from what?) creating an entire storefront (which never had more than one customer at a time), and never got the house to use a bit of spackle on those crumbling walls. Dumb. Just dumb.

[quote]Papi gets a job at the Gaiety and is discovered by a porn director! He becomes a gay-for-pay superstar!

Weirdly, I could totally see this actually happening in season three.

I know Papi is a favorite here but I want Ricky to do things to me.

^^^ Better you then Praytell!

R464, someone in the episode made a reference to Deep in Vogue, when referring to who McLaren was at the time, and yes it predated Madge's Vogue.

I think Dyllon Burnside is doing a great job as Ricky. He's really surprised me this season. The scene where Ricky learned he was HIV was very well done. And if Dyllon can make you believe that Ricky wanted to sleep with Pray Tell/Billy Porter, well, kudos to Dyllon.

I have a feeling Ricky may die. I hope not. But I'm sure we will have to put up with the insufferable Damon. I find Ryan so smug and charmless. I bet he resents that Dyllon is becoming more popular.

Ricky deserves to be a main character. Dyllon is so hot and charming. And a great actor. Suck it, Damon.

LuLu is the bomb! She hits all the right notes with her performance, every time. She is a transgender Meryl Streep in the making. Mark this post and in 5 years you all will see.

r476 = Hailie Sahar

FX reran all of season one this past weekend, and it served as yet another reminder of how far the show has fallen.

As others have noted, season one was perfect. Season two, on the other hand, is scattered, sloppy and emotionally hollow, and its storylines (which seem to last one episode each, so there's no time for any real investment on the part of the audience) are sorely lacking the heart, depth and narrative density that made me LOVE this series last year.

It feels a bit like the showrunners never expected to get a second season, so they poured their heart and souls into making a single, spectacular standalone season... and then had nothing left -- and no idea what to do with any of the characters -- for season two.

I’m not trans, but landed a gorgeous guy in a Speedo at the beach like that when I was young.

But he questioned his sexuality and threw up after we had sex, though.

Hot air alert at R478. This season's Candy episode is the best episode on all of TV this year and blows anything from last season away.

Agreed that the Candy episode was a standout this season, R480 -- I commented as such, as well, earlier in this thread. But that's been the exception, and the bar seems to have been lowered overall in the second season.

One strong episode does not a great season make, unfortunately. And randomly dropping Candy's ghost into subsequent episodes has felt very gimmicky.

I enjoyed the "Girl's Trip" episode -- I don't mind the show leaning into Wish Fulfillment at all; when the show is goofy and has a sense of humor is when it's at its best. It's when it goes all earnest that it makes me want to scratch my eyes out -- not a single actor on this show is good enough to handle the heavier material, and Billy Porter is the worst of all.

So if Electra isn't the villain any more, who is?

I thought Patti Lupone's Helmsleyesque character was?

The not-necessary, repeated references to the corpse in Elektra's closet (again) in the "Girl's Trip" episode, and her seeing Candy's ghost (again )in the rearview mirror at the end, almost made me wonder if they're going to kill her off in the final episode of this season!?!? With her immortalized in a New York magazine cover like Dorian Corey's, "The Drag Queen Who Had a Mummy in Her Closet."

I hope not, because she's my favorite character!

[quote] repeated references to the corpse in Elektra's closet (again)

You know that's based on a true story don't you?

Stupid show

I adore Sandra Bernhard this season. Her acting seems very natural.

Agreed, she's outstanding and a welcome edition. Lupone was really good in her scene too.

I find the Angel and Lil Papi scenes really awful. That scene with Eileen Ford was unbelievable. Evan Peters was a much better screen partner for Indya.

This finale just demonstrates again how much better season one was.

Sandra Bernhard has a memorable face.

They felt more like a series finale than a season finale.

The finale was okay. The best scenes were with MJ.

Angel and Lil Papi - yawn.

Electra as announcer was the best I’ve liked her.

[quote]They felt more like a series finale than a season finale.

Sorry, meant to type "That," not they.

They is the correct pronoun.

R495, I agree. I feel the series could end here and I’d be wholly satisfied.

I think they effectively wrote Damon out of the show when it returns next season. He clearly has a full life in Europe now and no reason to come back full-time anymore (except for possibly a guest appearance).

If Pose returns, it needs more sex appeal. Dyllon Burnside is the only attractive man on the show.

R499, also Lil Papi.

R500 Lil Papi is a butterface.

I had trouble hearing the dialogue over the music in a lot of scenes.

Not gonna lie, I did tear up at that last scene.

Elektra is fabulous.

It did look like a series finale.

The problem is the actor who plays Lil Papi is a terrible actor. His crying scene was cringey. I also think Indya isn't as strong this season.

Damon can go. When his character turned up I realized I didn't miss him at all.

MJ's entrance at the ball was fabulous.

I hate to be a sucker for drama but I want more TRAGEDY. Season 1 really hit it perfectly and came full circle with Elektra joining Evangelista. It was all too much with the changing houses and so on this season. What’s the point now if they’re all BFFs?

This season was a lot of wish fulfillment and projection. Pose needs a lot more GAY and pump the breaks on the trans pedal a tad. Isn’t tonight the first time we’ve actually seen... drag?!

Also that black and brown pride flag

ALSO basic bitch (from last week) is NOT 90s

Also everything about Papi/Angel this season

ALSO do you believe at all that they have passports to galavant off wherever? They can’t even afford paint for their “house.”

I loved the full circle for Blanca at the end tho. But... S3 will now ruin it?

[quote]That scene with Eileen Ford was unbelievable.

It's not a documentary Dear. And there was a famous transgendered model of that time.

Amazing how Blanca is at death's door one minute and then jumping up from a wheelchair and belting out a song at the ball, lip syncing for her life. RuPaul must have been so proud.

[quote]Amazing how Blanca is at death's door one minute and then jumping up from a wheelchair and belting out a song at the ball, lip syncing for her life. RuPaul must have been so proud.

She was in the hospital a while, it wasn't a 24 hour thing. People did survive another day back then. Even Sandra said it would at least another week when she asked if she could go home.

Damon only existed to better define/highlight MJ's character. He isn't that interesting by himself.

Definitely more Dylan. He lights up the screen

Yea, this last episode felt more like a series finale. I think the show has run its course.

R508 Not at first, the whole series started with him being thrown out of his home and coming to NYC. It looked like he was to be our audience surrogate into this new world and be a main character. Maybe not being able to act or dance curtailed what they originally planned for the character.

Can Season 3 be them all going to a house of horrors in Jersey, then all get stabbed to death? Oops, wrong derivative Murphy product.

^^^ How about Pose: Coven!

Commentary: How Candy’s Death on ‘Pose’ Almost Ruined The Second Season:

'Pose' Boss Explains "Emotional Roller Coaster" Finale and Looks Ahead to Season 3:

FX's Season Finale of 'Pose' brought to you by Saccharin.

When did Whitney sing the national anthem?

Wasn’t that Tula person also in a Power Station video?

John was a fan and seemed impressed by her. 😛. I don’t think he knew...

R518 Yes, she was - "Some Like it Hot." There's a little wink to her transgenderism toward the end of the video, with her in the barber chair and shaving cream on her face.

[quote]Commentary: How Candy’s Death on ‘Pose’ Almost Ruined The Second Season:

Some people think too much.

Actually, I thought the writer made some good points r520. This season was messy. Still watchable but messy.

[quote]Yes, she was - "Some Like it Hot." There's a little wink to her transgenderism toward the end of the video, with her in the barber chair and shaving cream on her face.

Wow, thanks haven't heard this in ages.

I just watched the episode. I felt it rang true with the second half of season two. It was very emotional, but even the deep drama was sugar-coated and fantasy-like. Season one was much real-er and uglier (and the first few episodes of season two started out that way).

The show is in major soap opera mode now, but I don't feel it has run its course. I'm looking forward to season three. I just hope they mix it up in season three and get ugly as shit to balance out the fairy tale qualities that have taken over the story lines.

Queer NYC was a bumpy ride in the early 90's! There's lots to pull from.

Has MJ fully transitioned aka The Chop? She has NO breasts.

[quote]I was just saying this last night. Damon has the worst posture and there is no way a thickums like him would be a professional dancer.

Really? I guess you weren't around back then because after Willi Ninja became ever so slightly famous he gained noticeable weight and his nickname became Willie "Steak'ums" Ninja. He was always a marvelous dancer.

I briefly dated Robert Vazquez quoted above. He is a sharp, wise and wonderful guy.

At the end of the episode there was a quote attributed to “Pray Tell.” There was a real Pray Tell???

I’m going to open a drag bar and name it “Candy’s Hammer”

Those street urchins at the end of the episode who Blanca took under her wing — do you think once they saw her broke down apartment they said “ummm, we’re ok.”?

[quote] I didn't care much for last night's "very special" episode. It seemed a bit heavy handed and while I liked the Candy character, I wasn't so invested in her that it warranted such a melodramatic and emotional conclusion to her nonexistent story arc. The emotion felt very manufactured and forced, as if we were supposed to care about this character that we hardly saw or knew. If it were one of the main characters that passed, it would have had a bigger impact and carried more weight.

I am just making my way through Season 2. The episode with Candy's memorial is the most affecting of the entire series so far. It was brilliant that this rather anonymous member of the ensemble provoked all of these complex emotions in those around her. I love the scene where Pray Tell confessed to his resentment of her. All of her post-mortem scenes were well-acted, surprisingly since we barely knew her. The final lip-synch scene had me in tears. The series finally found some emotional resonance.

[quote] I didn't care much for last night's "very special" episode. It seemed a bit heavy handed and while I liked the Candy character, I wasn't so invested in her that it warranted such a melodramatic and emotional conclusion to her nonexistent story arc. The emotion felt very manufactured and forced, as if we were supposed to care about this character that we hardly saw or knew. If it were one of the main characters that passed, it would have had a bigger impact and carried more weight.

I am just making my way through Season 2. The episode with Candy's memorial is the most affecting of the entire series so far. It was brilliant that this rather anonymous member of the ensemble provoked all of these complex emotions in those around her. I love the scene where Pray Tell confessed to his resentment of her. All of her post-mortem scenes were well-acted, surprisingly since we barely knew her. The final lip-synch scene had me in tears. The series finally found some emotional resonance.

Blanca and the lifeguard episode was quite a stretch to believe. He just happens to be in medical school and is immediately attracted to a tranny who can't swim and doesn't have her GED. If they bring him back next season it will be beyond ridiculous. They have zippo in common.

Opposites Attract

R531 Blanca doesn’t have her GED? When did that come up?

R531 oh and don’t forget she’s HIV+

But the last episode jumps forward like 8 months later and no mention of the lifeguard at all.

Has a third season been announced? Terrible reviews for the finale—how are the ratings?

Will they do another time jump? Why not fast forward to 2019 so that the gang can be a part of the SJW/Woke/#TimesUp movement?

[quote]They have zippo in common.

And ZERO chemistry.

I *love* MJ Rodriguez, but didn't find an ounce of believability in her swooning. Same goes for the actor playing the lifeguard. It all felt very forced and sterile, with no heat or passion between them.

I might be the only one who is not impressed with the romance between Angel and Papi. A mildly clockable girl with a chance at a mainstream breakthrough wouldn't look twice at a drug dealer and hustler like Papi. She'd be with some white Wall Street-type for sure

I might be the only one who is not impressed with the romance between Angel and Papi. A mildly clockable girl with a chance at a mainstream breakthrough wouldn't look twice at a drug dealer and hustler like Papi. She'd be with some white Wall Street-type for sure

Didn't she already do that last season, R538? Evan Peters?

R539 yes and that was more believable than the Papi romance

A few musings and observations:

-So remarkable of the talent in these “children”: a tranny model with several national ad campaigns; a former drug dealer turned talent scout mentee under the famous Eileen Ford; a homeless kid who gets a full scholarship at a prestigious dance conservatory who then goes on to tour and choreograph with Malcolm McLaren, and living in Paris; a hustler who tours with Al B Sure AND Paula Abdul!! What are the ODDS??

R541 You left out getting rescued and flirting with a hunky medical student lifeguard! That's what I said earlier, this whole season seems to be about wish fulfillment for its characters instead of realistic story lines. And when it is realistic or historical it's over the top like the mummy in the closet or the ACTUP protests. While they did deal with violence and murder of a trans characters this season, which is definitely an issue, have they tackled the fact that trans people have a very high rate of suicide, even after transitioning? I hope they explore this issue next season and with one of its main characters.

I thought for sure in the finale ball that Damon would spontaneously enter the voguing competition and win one for the House of Evangelista. Nope! The writers must hate the character as much as we all do.

^^^ Damon and spontaneous are not two words that I would put together, Damon and wooded- Yes.

None of the many characters suffers from being even five pounds overweight yet you think we may see them suffer from suicidal ideation? Okay....

[quote]A few musings and observations:

It's a fucking soap opera, not a documentary.

Just as I predicted, the writers gave viewers whiplash trying to tie-up all the unresolved storylines in the final episode. The way they dealt with Patti LuPone's character was laughable. Frankly, none of the storylines were resolved satisfactorily.

That damn mummy is still in the closet with Pepper from Asylum!!

The scripts are so stinky they need their own pine air fresheners, more than that corpse in a trunk.

In the finale episode, Billy Porter says "Eeeewwww!" when talking to his ballroom committee in the diner, and it really sounded too modern.

What?

I met the actor who plays Ricky tonight. He was very nice and looks thinner in person than he does on TV. My friend who was with me asked him if he'll be back on the show next season and he said he's not sure. His smile is absolutely gorgeous.

You're not the only one r537. Angel was much more interesting last season. She and Lil Papi are boring together. It doesn't help that the actor who plays Lil Papi is a terrible actor. But he's Janet Mock's pet so he's going to get lots of airtime. He's no Evan Peters, though. The relationship between Angel and Stan was very complex and interesting.

Damon seems to be hated by viewers and the rest of the cast alike. He must be a real diva on set. I bet his role will be even further diminished next season.

I agree that Angel lost a lot of the charm that she had in season one. They all did. Blanca was the only character that was better in the second season.

India Moore is looking a little rough lately, tbh.

Indya is a bit off. I've had to stop following her on Twitter and Instagram because she does nothing but complain (in long rants) and then of course that tweet about transwomen being biological women. She's nuts.

Indya can veer from really good to really bad in the course of one scene. Sometimes she's giving it her all and sometimes she seems totally disengaged. And yes, she was much better (and more consistent) last year.

Has there ever been a question as to whether or not any of the male actors on the show are trans? I don't believe any of them are but so much of the focus is always on the female actors on the show, I just don't recall if anything has ever said about the guys.

Blanca's character was inspired by Sylvia Rivera. This is what a tranny in the 90s truly looked like. She was HIV+ and pulling tricks and scams throughout her life, because life was hard, very hard. Her life of crime and other flaws have been scrubbed over time and her portrait now sits in the National Gallery in DC, yes, seriously.

Blanca on Pose is so sanitized and morally upright that it defies credulity.

OMG that is Patti Lupone on a bad hair day, eeeeek

How was Patti's character allowed to wear that tatty wig in jail?

MJ won the performer of the week on the TVLine page.

That’s good.

MJ and Sylvia Rivera are very different. One has talent and the other wisdom from hard knocks.

R543, Didn't Damon already do that? I think it was the episode where he graduated from Dance School. I can't remember which episode # it was but he walked into the ball, did his "Soul Train line" voguing down to the stage. He won the big trophy that night.

R562 yes. But as we’ve seen, the same characters win the same categories again and again and again

and the same threads bitching about the show's same faults!

Let’s post the same complaints when the show commits the same faults next year!

When It Comes to Dance, "Pose" Never Stands Still:

A little shout out to Trudie Styler as Ms Ford. she impressed me in "The Night Of" HBO miniseries and she's terrific here.

One thing for sure, Indya really likes showing off her non-existent vulva.

Well, where do I begin. I liked Season One for the most part. I absolutely love about 3 or 4 episodes. "LOVE IS THE MESSAGE" stands as their best episode to date. Hands down. LOVE the season one finale too. This season officially jumped the shark and crossed over into bullshit fantasy land starting with the Candy death episode. They couldn't just kill her off and let it leave you gutted and disturbed. No. Instead we get a damn ghost having fake conversations and reconciliation with the living. BULLSHIT. AND THEN, to top it all off we get a whole lipsynch dream sequence of a performance that never happened. AND THEN Candy's ghost kept reappearing! BARF. It just went completely down hill fast from that point on. I could barely watch the rest of the season. Just so much bullshit that other posters have mentioned. Angel and Papi and the drug storyline. haha. The most PREPOSTEROUS being Angel and "her" modeling campaigns. The quotes after every episode to give some sense of depth. haha! AMATUER. Bad writing, bad acting, bad soundtrack this time around. Anyone still watching this foolery should get their brain cells checked. I hate to break it to you, but you're probably missing some. What a letdown.

Well, where do I begin. I liked Season One for the most part. I absolutely love about 3 or 4 episodes. "LOVE IS THE MESSAGE" stands as their best episode to date. Hands down. LOVE the season one finale too. This season officially jumped the shark and crossed over into bullshit fantasy land starting with the Candy death episode. They couldn't just kill her off and let it leave you gutted and disturbed. No. Instead we get a damn ghost having fake conversations and reconciliation with the living. BULLSHIT. AND THEN, to top it all off we get a whole lipsynch dream sequence of a performance that never happened. AND THEN Candy's ghost kept reappearing! BARF. It just went completely down hill fast from that point on. I could barely watch the rest of the season. Just so much bullshit that other posters have mentioned. Angel and Papi and the drug storyline. haha. The most PREPOSTEROUS being Angel and "her" modeling campaigns. The quotes after every episode to give some sense of depth. haha! AMATUER. Bad writing, bad acting, bad soundtrack this time around. Anyone still watching this foolery should get their brain cells checked. I hate to break it to you, but you're probably missing some. What a letdown.

Ohhhh smell you.

This off topic but the people at the very top of the thread implying that some of Pose’s audience don’t know what drag is or have never heard of Paris Is Burning are really funny. Because everybody knows that straight people with no idea what drag is are going to be watching a show about the 80’s ballroom scene.

While I love the show very, very much I think what was missing in the second season was the ballroom drama and scheming. Season one found the balance between vicious rivalry and yet showing up and support one of your own when he or she needed it. Once Miss Candy was in the coffin the drama was sparse and reserved for one off episode shenanigans.

To me the second season's finale felt like the Looking special wrapping up all the loose ends and their "hey, what you've been up to?" exposition with that awkward time jump.

Again I love the show and to me the one where the girls go to the beach is my most favorite (yes, I like it even more than Miss Candy's funeral episode) episode, because of its feel-good vibe.

So, Blanca isn't going to die any time soon? She took in some new kids at the end. The show wouldn't do that only to let these kids see her waste away to nothing and scar them forever?

You all do realize that "gay" marriage will be front and center next season, yeah? Except this time, it will be about the injustice over how a "real straight woman" (Angel) can't marry a man which will be 100x more important than regular gays getting married. Mark it!

How many days are month are the balls on this show? Where the hell they put all those trophy’s?

What I love about Pose is the message that you have to support and nurture your community so it supports and nurtures you in return.

Look at guys like Aaron Schock who whine that the Gay / LGBTQ Community doesn't support them after years and years of stabbing that Gay / LGBTQ Community in the back. The nerve!

[quote]Blanca and the lifeguard episode was quite a stretch to believe.

[quote]Opposites Attract

You mean Blanca is uncut and the lifeguard is cut, I guess?

Christ, Janet Mock is hooking up with Lil Papi! Expect a lot of story lines for him in season three I guess.

Finally got around to watching the season finale... and... meh. MJ Rodriguez was great, per usual, and I did enjoy Electra as ball emcee, but otherwise the episode (like the entire second season) was underwhelming and all over the map, story-wise. It felt very scattered and hollow, and didn't leave me excited for season three.

And I say that as someone who absolutely LOVED LOVED LOVED season one.

I'm really hoping that, as the show winds its way to the end, the writers can find their way back to the focus, depth and emotion that hooked me in the beginning.

Whip Appeal scene is my favvvvv

How do I see season 2? Fucking Netflix only has one season.

[quote]The acting from Billy Porter superb once again.

Gurl....

r582, Season 2 was just placed on Netflix last week!