Non-binary

Ask Julie Andrews, since she pushed it to kids on her Netflix puppet show.

I have to admit when I was younger very butch lesbians conflicted me. I don’t mean women who prefer to keep their hair short, wear trousers etc. I’m talking about proper masculine lesbians, with the shaved heads and real alpha Male attire. To me, these women were transsexual. I didn’t understand why a man dressing entirely as a woman would cause him to be labelled travesties or transsexual, but a woman doing the opposite was simply gay or lesbian.

I get now why these women don’t want to be labelled lesbian, as they are more than just gay, they are choosing to adopt a male exterior.

[quote]What does it really mean?

That the person has way too much time on their hands to contemplate theoretic abstractions about identity, rather than needing to focus on more every day concerns that plague most people.

I suppose but it leads me to wonder about lesbians as a group or category.

It seems to be a generational thing. I doubt older women are abruptly changing their labels.

R2 what you describe used to be called a transvestite.

Marketing OP

It's a much more "woke" way of saying that you're a butch lesbian or a femme gay man.

What does it really mean? Look at me! Look at me! That's what it means.

No, R6, it isn’t. It’s the exact opposite of “woke.”

The whole concept of ‘non binary’ is built on the fallacy that most people would identify as ‘binary’. That is, most people align completely with the cultural expectations assigned to a person on the basis of sex. It’s a false construct as everyone simultaneously leans into and bucks those expectations everyday. We’re all complicated creatures, but strangely, queer culture strips all that away. Now, we’re looking at a landscape of straight males and ‘others’. As if gay men and a ‘non binary’ teenage girl have anything in common.

^girls

For the love of god, can we get an edit button?

"The whole concept of ‘non binary’ is built on the fallacy that most people would identify as ‘binary’. "

That's what bothers me about the whole non-binary thing, because it's NORMAL for human beings to have both masculine and feminine characteristics. Most people do, it's comparatively rare for a person to be all feminine or all masculine, but the young idiots who think that they're the first people who ever thought about gender presentation have no clue.

Me, I'm about 50% masculine and 50% feminine, and I could call myself "non-binary" if I thought other people gave a rat's ass about how I think about my gender identity. But I'm an adult, I know they don't.

R8 doesn't know what "woke" means.

Which is unsurprising given DLs demographics.

Everyone is "non-binary" by default. It's just that most people don't have to slap a label on it for attention.

[quote] Relating to, using, or expressed in a system of numerical notation that has 2 rather than 10 as a base.

That's the definition of binary from the Oxford online dictionary.

I think non-binary means that things are not one or the other, not black and white. You don't identify as male and you don't identify as female.

I often means they can't get laid by men or women.

It is a way of getting attention, without having to actually explain or do anything.

"Non binary" is a steaming load of horse shit is what it is!

Yes. And we have all stepped right into it.

It's very simple. Penis and like other penises = gay. Vagina and likes other vaginas = lesbian. Likes penis or vagina and has one or the other? Bi. Anything other than those three? Attention whore.

R15 yes that is what it boils down to.

It's attention-seeking nonsense.

The hilarious thing is when girls and women announce that they're "non-binary", and then object to the word "woman" being used in relation to issues that affect them (periods, pregnancy, childbirth, etc.). "Trans men and non-binary people can get pregnant as well!" Well, yes - that's because "trans men" and "non-binary people" are actually women! It's almost as if re-labelling yourself doesn't change anything tangible!

WHET to that queer enby Bunnika?

What R13 said. Also, identifying as a lesbian has gone very out of fashion so you have to call yourself something else. “Queer” has been mostly taken over by straight girls with boyfriends pretending to be bisexual, which they call “pansexual”, so lesbians who can’t deal with the L-Word tend to go for “non-binary”, which is also less likely to result in you being deemed a “TERF”.

Wake me up when it’s all over, thanks

But I've read 1984! Language DEFINES us.

It’s means “homophobic.”

[quote]It's attention-seeking nonsense. The hilarious thing is when girls and women announce that they're "non-binary", and then object to the word "woman" being used in relation to issues that affect them (periods, pregnancy, childbirth, etc.). "Trans men and non-binary people can get pregnant as well!" Well, yes - that's because "trans men" and "non-binary people" are actually women! It's almost as if re-labelling yourself doesn't change anything tangible!

r21, spot on. These idiots seem to think that calling themselves some made up nonsense actually makes them some new undiscovered variant of humanity.

Yes R23, I was wondering about that. Non-binary seems distinctly non-threatening and perhaps a way to deflect unwanted attention.

I can see using it as a brush off as in “sorry, I’m non-binary.” Like you are almost a different species and therefore outside or apart from the issues that impact us regular mortals.

“I’m non-binary. I’m special.”

[quote]That's what bothers me about the whole non-binary thing, because it's NORMAL for human beings to have both masculine and feminine characteristics. Most people do, it's comparatively rare for a person to be all feminine or all masculine...

I wonder if the new category of "non-binary" is actually a linguistic reaction to the prominence of Ts reinforcing stark gender stereotypes? As of a few years ago, women were showing much more of their masculine side and men were starting to be able to show more of their feminine side without it seeming out of the ordinary or strange. Then, the T came along trying to reinforce strict gender stereotypes and suddenly there needed to be some word for what used to just be everyday people.

....

Non-binary means rejecting society's strict stereotype gender assignment where girls are supposed to play with Barbie dolls and boys play with guns and fire trucks.

Like atheism is a rejection of organized religion.

R31, the point is that that rejection of gender stereotypes has been happening for half a century at least. No one ever had to make a name up for it. And, I think it's more than that. It's not everyday people calling themselves "non-binary". They all have a certain look. It seems to involve beanies, flannel, and chunky glasses.

"Non-binary means rejecting society's strict stereotype gender assignment where girls are supposed to play with Barbie dolls and boys play with guns and fire trucks. "

Good Lord, MOST human beings reject strict gender stereotypes! Even the most macho men nurture their children, even the frauiest fraus push around their husbands! Having both masculine and feminine qualities isn't revolutionary, it's totally fucking normal!

Someone above is right, the only groups on Earth who firmly believe in an immutable gender binary are the transsexuals.

R31 passed by a Gender Theory class once but didn't quite get the concepts.

[quote] the point is that that rejection of gender stereotypes has been happening for half a century at least. No one ever had to make a name up for it.

The Millennial / social media generation felt the need to give it a name, a label, or a marketable branding.

[quote] It's not everyday people calling themselves "non-binary". They all have a certain look. It seems to involve beanies, flannel, and chunky glasses.

Everyday people? Like normal people? Way to shoot yourself in the foot.

And once again the Anti Trans Troll insists that killing all Trans will make all the problems of society go away. How predictable.

And like clockwork the Anti-Anti-Trans Troll Troll is here to pretend like any comment involving trans in a non-overwhelmingly positive light gets labeled and diminished as "trolling".

I have more problems with homophobic right-wingers than with the people who are into all this non-binary stuff these days. I was a girly boy as a kid and started getting more masculine partly by choice after being bullied at school in my early teens. I totally knew and still know I don't feel like I'm like the most straight men I meet. However I do love my body and I love my dick and I'm happy with who I man. I've no problems thinking I'm not really male in the sense most men are, and I definitely know I don't feel I'm a woman. That said many straight men are quite lost with their identity as well, and I guess the rise of the alt-right is partly explained by angy young men finding a way to tell themselves they are very masculine men by becoming Nazis where they have very strict gender roles they must adhere to.

Quite honestly I haven't looked too deep into these non-binary ideas but I realize they can be problematic as well. And yes, there can be a homophobic undercurrent happening there but then again I guess it all comes into everyone's openness about moving away from the traditional thinking of male and female. It's certainly complicated. I don't have the answers but I'm glad gay people are more accepted now than we were before. So it's certainly not all bad.

R35, didn't shoot myself anywhere. They do not have the everyday look. They usually have a very specific look which is not shared by the majority of people who don't have gender issues. And, they always look like they are trying way too hard.

I'm literally shaking at the literal violence in this thread....

[quote]Non-binary means rejecting society's strict stereotype gender assignment where girls are supposed to play with Barbie dolls and boys play with guns and fire trucks.

Also known as GAY.

Good God! R40, after reading that link, its more confusing than ever. Non-binary but not male or female but not trans but could be trans, but not cisgender but not gay but could be gay...how dare you not understand what I am.

[quote] I’m talking about proper masculine lesbians, with the shaved heads and real alpha Male attire.

The ones that called themselves Bob and Daryll, etc?

r33 Got it right.

[quote]"Non-binary means rejecting society's strict stereotype gender assignment where girls are supposed to play with Barbie dolls and boys play with guns and fire trucks. "

So non-binary = anti-trans?

[quote] [R35], didn't shoot myself anywhere. They do not have the everyday look.

And you have an issue with diversity, because ... ?

None of this would matter if non-binary was recognised for what it is - which is basically the current year version of Emo. An identity that marks you out as not being so basic, dull and conventional as those other people (see also punk and goth).

Instead we have idiot governments, as was the case in Scotland last year, putting out consultations asking how laws can be changed to accommodate non-binary people and ensure they have the full raft of human rights (which they have already because it's a meaningless term without substance).

[quote] Non-binary means rejecting society's strict stereotype gender assignment where girls are supposed to play with Barbie dolls and boys play with guns and fire trucks.

[quote] Also known as GAY.

Not anymore, dear.

[quote] Instead we have idiot governments, as was the case in Scotland last year, putting out consultations asking how laws can be changed to accommodate non-binary people and ensure they have the full raft of human rights (which they have already because it's a meaningless term without substance).

To you it may be a meaningless term without substance. To you. To others it is not.

- You are not the only person in this world.

- What matters to you does not have to matter something for everybody else and vice versa.

[quote] An identity that marks you out as not being so basic, dull and conventional as those other people (see also punk and goth).

So, gays are as basic, dull, and conventional to you?

I went to a big lesbian event about a month ago, and there's definitely a generation gap when it comes to labels. The older generation is likely to proudly identify with lesbian (or maybe bisexual for women with histories with women and men), as well as fully embracing the butch/femme labels. I honestly couldn't tell the different between many of the self-identified butch and femme women. They just looked like older ladies! A few of the older lesbians said they would've come out as trans men if they were young today.

The younger women were much more likely to identify as queer, non-binary, or no labels. More are poly or non-monogamous than the older ones. I didn't hear anyone use butch or femme, even if their presentation or relationship reflected that dynamic. Many more women were more androgynous or simply wore the modern queer styles, like undercut hair. Many of them wanted men (both trans and cis) to be invited to future events, while some of the older lesbians were so uncomfortable with men they didn't even like having men serving them dinner.

It was an interesting juxtaposition. Is anything similar happening in the gay male world?

R50 I was talking about the term non-binary. The biggest group of people that seem to use it are mostly straight teen girls/young adults.

Thanks, R51. That clarifies a lot.

I know a girl that claims to be "non-binary." She's engaged to a "bisexual" guy.

It’s a condition of some millennials and gen-z when they confront cultural expectations of their gender.

For previous generations, if something is expected of you because you’re male — say, liking football — and you didn’t conform — you find football boring — you’d either think, “I guess I don’t measure up” or “fuck that, it’s a dumb expectation.

The current generations can’t cope with being told they’re anything less than 100%. So instead of processing the expectation and how they fit or don’t fit into it, they remove themselves from the gender altogether and create another one in which they are, all together now, 100%.

These people have bought into gender stereotypes to an unhealthy degree and because of that they think being a girl with short hair who likes sports makes them something else than female .

r56 Millennials are retarded.

Besides, I fear they will make paedophilia legal.

JVN is jumping on the non-binary train

“Non” binary ENFORCES the binary.

Oh please, he's just a huge queen.

And a huge homophobe, along with anybody anywhere who watches that vile show with an anti-gay slur in its name.

90% of this non-binary, They, them, Us, is coming from women. A friend of mine lives on the east coast where there is a really high concentration of Lesbians. They are all over that label shit. He practically cant use the word gay anymore.

That and male to female trans men who want to push strict gender rolls so they can fit in with their idealized imaginary behavior of how woman are supposed to act. If you identify the way you were born, male as male or female as female they keep trying to push the cis-gender label on the rest of society to justify their self imposed label.

Jamie Shupe, the first American to have his gender recognized as “non-binary”… detransitioned (back) to a man/male earlier this year.

The whole non-binary crap is nothing more than attention-seeking nonsense. It started out as a trend on Tumblr. Now you've pathetically got older celebs like Rose McGowan and Sam Smith calling themselves "non-binary". Ridiculous! Sam Smith is just a big ol queen! He must've felt like a female while growing up and probably wanted to transition at some point, but when he saw how big and hairy his body got, he must've realized he could never pass for a woman. So that's likely why he now settles for calling himself "non-binary".

[quote] Good God! [R40], after reading that link, its more confusing than ever. Non-binary but not male or female but not trans but could be trans, but not cisgender but not gay but could be gay...how dare you not understand what I am.

I wonder how long it'll take the Trans and Nonbinary/Genderqueer contingents to realize they believe in totally opposite things?

One believes in an immutable gender binary, the other defies the gender binary!

Do you think if we make a concerted effort, we could troll all the non-binary weirdos enough to try to convince them that the newest thing to be is "trinary"? We won't define it, we'll just keep telling them it over and over until they just go along. Should be fun. I'd say it would take two months max before there's an article somewhere about the newest trend, "trinarism".

[quote]“The Vatican rejects notions that gender identity can be fluid,” said a bunch of guys in flowing gowns.

I'm veddy confews vit awl deese new wurds.

Since everyone is now allowed to call themselves what they want an no one is to tell them what they are...THEN QUITE CALLING ME CIS-GENDER.

I am a natural born gay male, born this way, it's my label deal with it.

All those idiotic notions on gender the millennials have created, will disappear once the Third World invade the First World. When basic necessities arise, there is no time for bullshit.

Cissy.

I've decided I'm headless. Please don't look at me above the neck for there is nothing there! Also, I'm a pigeon, so you have to crouch down if you want to be heard. Anything less will injure me so much I will die.

R15 wins.

[quote] THEN QUITE CALLING ME CIS-GENDER.

OH DEAR!

The way the anti queer and and anti trans troll freak out about other people doing their own thing you'd think they are right in the epicenter of it all. Must be one hellish basement.

Years ago someone came out at work as trans. Even back then they were all drama queens. He made the HR have an emergency company wide meeting to inform us of his drama and force us to listen to his "story" so that we would all be informed upon his return. No one actually cared except him/her/It and HR.

He was a hot mess, still married to a woman with 2 kids, he now had to divorce. Meanwhile chasing after my female coworker who was straight, because he was straight to begin with. He looked about as convincing as Brucilla with no makeup.

While I was born a douche, but I identify as a turd.

R76 the anti-anti queer troll troll and the anti-anti trans troll troll are far worse.

Since there isn't a single masculine man or feminine woman ever claiming to be non binary you can see this is just femme boys and butch dykes attention whoring.

How journalists must resent having to write profiles of one person entirely in the third-person plural, and how Wikipedia editors must resent having to re-write articles to reflect the subject's "new" non-binary identity.

Boomer parents shamed their gay kids into believing THAT'S SO GAAAAY! So they became 'queer', 'questioning', 'fluid', 'non-binary' and 'trans'.

I just saw someone who said they are trans and non binary. How does that work? If you are non binary - how do you transition from one gender to another?

I also saw someone who as a teen was a very out feminine gay male. Then he transitioned to female and was still sleeping with gay guys. Then she decided as a woman she would only sleep with straight guys, then she said she was bisexual and also started dating women, and now she identifies as a lesbian. It is very confusing to me how a gender transition changes ones sexual orientation.

I find it all pretty confusing!