Animal Kingdom - Season 4

I’m praying for lengthy loving looks at Finn Cole’s glorious young ass.

Yeah.. it's back!

I love this show, but Deran deserves someone better looking than Adrian.

Yikes, Pope.

I had no idea that the blond female with the four-man crew was Smurf until the end. Still loving Deran and Adrian and hope nothing bad happens to them/Adrian doesn't turn on the Cody's.

The actor playing Lincon teased a few months ago that he might be back. I hope so. He was hot af. I prefer him over Adrian.

Sorry, Lincoln.

In the season finale Pope vehemently hated Smurf. I'm confused why he moved back in with her. It was made obvious she's coercing him to live there.

Can you explain what I'm missing? What is she holding over him to make him live there? The only people he ever loved were Catherine & Lena and they're both gone.

The first episode gave us a very sweet bedroom scene with Adrian and Deran. They live together now and are shown laying topless in their bed with Deran curled onto Adrian's chest as they discuss the upcoming heist that the Cody brothers have planned. They discuss that Adrian will provide an alibi if something goes wrong. Adrian says "I like being your alibi". Their hands are linked, then Deran caresses Adrian's jaw with his fingertips before he leans forward to kiss him.

I want the best or these guys but knowing that Adrian is being used by the DEA as an informant will only lead to sadness.

R8 Maybe that's where Lincoln comes in? Deran feels betrayed by Adrian and goes back to Lincoln?

R7 - I think that Pope was damaged/mentally ill for a long time but the guilt from killing Cath and losing Lena pushed it up a notch and being home in Lena's old room is the only thing that brings him any comfort. He has to put up with Smurf but I think he basically has tuned her out.

[quote]I want the best for these guys but knowing that Adrian is being used by the DEA as an informant will only lead to sadness

😥

Next episode Emily Deschanel will join the show as 'Angela'

I found out recently that sister of the actor who plays Adrian writes for the show. Good for her with the A/D story line and keeping it real.

I really like Adrian and Deran together. I really don't want to see their relationship go south.

Hunty, great shots of Deran's and Adrian's naked surfer asses in tonight's episode. They get out of bed and walk around nude. Nice.

Ellen Barkin has to be the ugliest woman in show business. It's hard to even look at her. She's also extremely pale this season.

R15 I think she’s supposed to be sick?

R14, that was very nice. I think I won’t delete that episode quite yet.

Deran and Adrian are why I watch the show.

The addition of Lincoln just seemed gratuitious, and he had no chemistry with Deran.

Adrian and Deran, however, have chemistry as hot as the sun.

I need to see J’s ass again, even if it’s in an incestuous situation with his grandma.

Hottest tv couple ever...

r12 So that explains why we are stuck with ugly Adrian! He looks like a burn victim

I was all about Deran and Linc.

Deran would never go for Linc. They have no chemistry.

It was just a hookup, so get over it. Deran basically said so.

Did the show ever explain what happened to the Dennis Leary character, and why he left the asian whore behind?

Also, it still makes no sense how Smurf got her name. In season one, her ex-boyfriend claims that she had "turned blue" from being cold, and she looked like a Smurf. In the season 4 premiere, Smurf was late teens early 20's when she was involved in the bank robbery. Ellen Barkin was born in 1954, which means that would have been in the 1970's when the other bank robbers were calling her Smurf.

However, "The Smurfs" cartoon didn't appear on American television until 1981.

The timeline is all wrong, because Janine is too old to have been nicknamed "Smurf," since she would already have been in her 30's when the cartoon first appeared.

I hate when shows get their timelines wrong. It's just lazy writing.

R15 she's playing part, you idiot

R24, you're a clever son-of-a-bitch

R18, have you seen R22? You don't call that chemistry? Or maybe you are the descendant of the early supporters of the anti-miscegenation laws

Are any of the men in the Smurf flashback scenes supposed to be the Dennis Leary character?

R24 The Smurfs existed before the 80s cartoon. Maybe not in America, but they've been around since the 50s in Belgium.

But yeah, it wouldn't be something most people would know.

Love Ellen Barkin! She's so over the top badass! She chews up every scene she's in..so curiously watchable. Denis O'Leary did a convincing job with the smack addicted character.

Funny how life works out; didn't Jake Weary quit ATWt as a teen b/c they were going to make Luke gay or reveal he's gay?

Now he's playing gay on Animal Kingdom.

All of the guys in the Smurf flash back from when she was younger, are HOT.

I especially like her controlling boyfriend.

He and his mother claim that he left the show to focus on school.

Jake: I was on a soap opera for a year, I was on As the World Turns, and then the workload increased and I was basically flunking out of high school. I was like, “I can’t do this right now. I’ve got three more years left of high school, I want to play sports and hang out with my friends.” So I left the show and finished school. That was a little break in my career, which was nice. It definitely needed to happen.

I am perplexed why Smurf asked the fisherman for the fish.  At first, I thought that she was going to release it back into the ocean, because she's now in an "all life is precious" mindset after hearing her diagnosis and wanted the fish to live.  But, instead, she stares down at it and walks away, like she wanted to see another creature suffer.   She is hardcore.

I just hate that we're meant to believe that these dumb-as-rocks idiots can concoct these elaborate intricate schemes.

I am really starting to like the Smurf flashbacks. It's interesting to see young Janine's evolution.

However, I'm wondering if they're really going to kill her off? That wouldn't make sense, because the show really needs her.

Episode two was really, really good.

Adrian is becoming so shady. I can't believe that Deran is buying all of his bullshit.

Deran would have to at least think that Adrian is cheating. First he has this strange meeting at the beach with the cute blond guy, after which he jumps into the DEA agent's car! Deran didn't see that??

Then he leaves the beach party early, and Deran isn't even a little bit suspicious?

Poor Deran is going to be so heartbroken when he finds out that Adrian betrayed him.

I wonder if the DEA agent has a crush on Adrian?

Ellen Barking has the worst plastic surgery I've ever seen. Nerves must have been cut because her mouth is droopy on one side. She is so ugly compared to how she used to look.

At one time she had Ron Perlman's money and this is the result she got?

Another nude scene of Adrian coming out of the shower!

One way or another, poor, sweet Adrian is obviously doomed to be a sacrificial lamb this season.

If he has to go, I hope it’s dying in Deran’s arms in a heart wrenching scene confessing his love.

I was a bit surprised when Smurf asked Craig if he had any coke. Last week she asked Craig for some of his stash of pills to ease her pain but I didn't think she partook of more recreational substances. She just got some bad health news but I she didn't seem the type to now decide to smoke/drink/snort indiscriminately because her time is running out. She always seemed like a control freak so her turning into a druggie seems out of left field.

R28 No, she hasn't met him yet. The first guy she was dating in the flashbacks is Craig's dad. He's the one that tied her up in the motel in season two, I believe. The current flashback bf with PTSD or some other issue is probably Pope and Julia's dad.

And yes they are probably killing off Smurf judging by the fact that Ellen Barkin has been trashing the show, cast, writers, network, etc on twitter for months.

Hello!

R44 She trashed the show? What did she say?

If they kill off Smurf what’s the point of the show? If Ellen is gone then so am I. While I enjoy the boys, they need the push and pull as well as the constant tension with their mother to make Animal Kingdom work.

R68

Then Barkin needs to get her over inflated ego in check.

Yikes, Adrian is in a pickle -- John Law is on him like white on rice.

[quote] If he has to go, I hope it’s dying in Deran’s arms in a heart wrenching scene confessing his love.

But the show is called "Animal Kingdom, so it's more likely Deran will be the one to kill Adrian for what he'll see as betrayal.

This is another show using Godfather II narrative structure. Season 4 wraps young Smurf's story with old Smurf's story, like Vito's story in GF2; Jay is Michael Corleone, who started out young, smart, and fairly innocent, but is now deeply involved and (almost) running the show.

And, of course, Craig is Fredo.

Another recent movie claiming to use Godfather II narrative structure was "Mama Mia, 2". (I kid you not.)

Nice seeing a Jays perky butt again.

Was worried about the promo for next week until I read the synopsis for episode six, where it says Deran makes a dangerous decision to try and protect his relationship with Adrian.

[quote][R12] So that explains why we are stuck with ugly Adrian! He looks like a burn victim

Yeah...I don’t think he’s ugly by any means but he does look odd like his face hasn’t completely formed. Unfortunately, this show isn’t deep enough for Deran and Adrian to have any true chemistry because their storyline doesn’t give the actors a chance to really explore. I’m so bored with this show, I’m barely making it through this season.

Heist, Craig gets into trouble, another heist, Smurf glares, heist, Pope’s still CRAZY, heist, J creepily stares. Repeat.

R50 I don't think so. If people thought J going all "Dexter" on whatsherface was out of character then Deran murdering the guy he's in love with would just be straight up character assassination. It would also be just a massive slap in the face for the show to do that after tweeting this for Pride month.

r55 , but Pope murdered the one he loved, in bed during sex. I'm just thinking that this show, called "Animal Kingdom", isn't about good people, no matter how much it invites you to identify with certain aspects of their character, wants, and desires. They Bad. The question is: Are they irredeemably bad? We're watching to see, but we're not too hopeful.

Maybe they will get married so Adrian won't have to give any sort of testimony against Deran.

R56 But that's not completely out of character for Pope.

Finn Cole should film all his scenes naked.

Finn Cole should do porn.

Finn Cole has the ass of someone you would not expect him to have. It's FUCKING unbelievable.

I want Deran to get a hotter boyfriend.

[quote] I want Deran to get a hotter boyfriend.

I may be able to help out with that. In the previews for next week I'm heard screaming, "Who is talking to the police?"

I've just caught up on season 4 so far. Really liking the storyline with Adrian and the police, and the fact that they are being treated seriously as a couple by the writers. Love the way Craig was worried that Adrian didn't trust Deran and how Deran responded to him.

The description of tonight's episode from a "what's on tonight" guide-

[quote] Smurf must root out the rat in the family before her empire is destroyed. She recruits J to help, though both have yet to suspect Adrian of betraying the clan and working with the feds.

I need for some previous seasons' loose ends to be wrapped up. Specifically I need it to be revealed that J's girlfriend killed Baz.

Let Pope take her out.

Has this show jumped the shark? Smurf's constant growl and Pope's intractable brooding are getting old.

I want it to be revealed that J is secretly filming gay porn scenes.

Realistic depictions of gay sex on cable television always crack me up because you the people in the middle of the country just LOSE THEIR SHIT.

I got misty when Deran told Adrian that he loves him, right after killing and burying the guy who said that Adrian is most likely a police informant. Fingers crossed that he loves him enough to not kill him by the end of the season.

The show stops for me when the Deschanel actress comes on, I thought she was supposed to be a good actress, didn’t she carry her own show for years? She seems on the spectrum.

Ding ding ding! Naked ass alert for Deran and Adrian. Adrian's is NICE!

J’s lingering ass shot while fucking that rich girl in last week’s ep was everything. Visible balls, presenting hole. Amazing.

I hope Adrian gets killed off so Deran can get a hotter boyfriend.

This is probably the most depressing show on TV right now. Every character is fucking miserable. Even happy-go-lucky Craig, who lived a carefree life in the first season, is just a gloomy as the rest of his family. There was some hope for redemption early on, when Deran bought the bar and planned on distancing himself from Smurf, but he gets dragged back into the family business. Gone are the scenes in the first season when the family still enjoyed each other's company. Granted, the show title is Animal Kingdom, but even animals experience some form of enjoyment and peace. If the show ends, the only outcome would be for characters to get killed, sent to prison, or escape to Mexico where they continue to live miserable lives. Deran may end up keeping his bar, but he knows cops will be trailing him for the rest of his life.

I know, Mary!

r75 - Considering the fact that in the movie pretty much everybody dies (some within the first 20 minutes) this is a fucking episode of Mama's Family.

Why does anyone want these characters to be happy? They're all scum.

EXACTLY R77. They're all terrible people who deserve to be killed in drive-bys--gay or not-- and the writers know that. Even J who was somewhat of a moral compass, in the beginning, is now one-dimensional like everyone else. I think you need at least ONE character to be somewhat conflicted, and I thought that was going to be Deran but that lasted what...a couple of episodes? I swear to GOD the majority of people who watch this show must be Trumptards and FOX watchers. Every character is worse than the next.

This show jumped the shark in Season 3 IMO

I dream of sucking the butch pussy of the long hair guy.

cant stand the red haird psycho that's the mommas boy, ick

Huh R79?

Simple explanation r80.

R79 is obsessed with hair.

yeah, but is he talking about Deran or Craig?

For a story to be successful, shouldn't there be a sense of redemption? That's how humans respond. The first 2 seasons had that. This season is just one continuous drudgery.

Here's the TVLine.com recap of what happened to Deran last night-

[quote] Colby paid an ill-advised after-hours visit to the bar to imply to Deran that since Jack was headed to prison and Adrian wasn’t, it wouldn’t be hard to convince, say, Pope that the surfer boy was the cops’ informant. But in exchange for $20k, Colby said, he’d be happy not to float such an idea. Though Deran agreed to pay, he’d no sooner opened his safe than he’d retrieved a gun and put a bullet in Colby’s head.

[quote] Afterwards, he called Pope to help bury the body and told a whopper of a lie: When he’d confronted Colby about being the stool pigeon, Colby had come at him with a gun, so he’d shot the turncoat. Finally, Adrian found Deran in the shower in the dark. Clearly starting to reel from the impact of what he’d done to protect his boyfriend, Deran looked at him as if memorizing him, said an “I love you” that seemed to weigh a million pounds, and held him close under the spray of water.

That's as close as you're going to get to "redemption" in Animal Kingdom, even if it's a fucked-up redemption. Deran, who in season one kicked Adrian so hard in the head that he needed an MRI, now appears to want to protect Adrian from the most dangerous forces in their world- not from the Feds, not from some outside gang, but from his own family.

Good luck with that, Deran.

Call me crazy but the character I feel empathy for is Pope. He is so damaged but underneath all I see a man who's quite innocent in spite of everything.

Can you consider Pope innocent when he killed a woman because his Mother told him to?

I don't think Adrian is informing on the Codys but they might think he is when it's really Angela or even Mia.

Adrian is being pressured by the local cop to inform on the Codys.

Not sure of the logic that we can get all that ass but no peen. Break some ground TNT. Peen!

I actually yelled at my TV last night at these guys and their games. How naive can Adrian be to not realize that Deran's sudden interest in his schedule and who he's been meeting up with isn't colored by suspicion? Also, Deran came right out and said that "someone" has been talking to the police. Both of those together should have pushed Adrian to spill, but no. Confess NOW, stupid, before it gets worse.

Now Deran will be second guessing every move that his dumb BF makes, wondering if/when the law will be coming for him and/or his family. This tension is maddening.

I understand why Adrian would be afraid to confess since he knows what happens to people that are even suspected of crossing the Codys... Deran told him about Smurf vs Lucy, he knows about Pope's violence including the guy that ended up in the hospital in season one because Deran was jealous, etc. But the Codys also protect their own and Adrian is Deran's family now.

Let's hope the writers don't drag it out all season... Angela is right there being shady as hell!

This season has been the best since season one. I am absolutely loving it, especially because Deran and Adrian's relationship is front and center. I think that they are probably my favorite gay couple ever! They're just natural and easy with each other, without making a big deal about them being gay. It's just such a natural relationship, which you never see on most tv shows.

This past episode was probably the best one this season. All three of Janine's sons are finding love, and watching them deal with it in their individual ways, was really interesting. Pope holding the door open for Angela; Craig buying all the cocaine from Renn, so that she wouldn't have to sell it on the street; and then Deran literally killing someone to protect Adrian. All three stories are coming along nicely, and it has made the season really good.

Janine's cancer is also an interesting twist, and surprisingly, the flashbacks are great too.

I'm so happy that the show is back on track, because seasons two and three really sucked.

The shower scene at the end was BEAUTIFUL and sexy. Deran telling Adrian "I love you," was so intense - and scary. It's almost as if he knows that something bad is eventually going to happen to Adrian because he's a snitch.

I'm starting to think that Deran may end up killing Adrian himself. That would suck so badly, because I watch the show mainly for them.

[quote] the Codys also protect their own and Adrian is Deran's family now.

Which is why Pope will indeed be pissed when he finds out that Adrian is the informant.

Watching Adrian together with Deran, it's funny to see them side by side. Adrian is way more pumped up and muscular than Deran, not to mention taller. Adrian is getting a little bit too buff.

Also, I'm surprised that some of you don't like Emily Deschanel. I think she's doing a great job, and her character is way better than Dennis Leary's or the asian lady. Angela is a nice fit with the family, because she has ties to both Pope and Jay and a bad history with Smurf. I'm not sure whether or not to trust her yet, though.

I'm confused. Is Renn pregnant with Craig's baby?

Yes, R94. But she was supposed to "get rid" of the baby.

Then she showed up at his door pregnant, and he's contemplating the idea of being a father.

I find it quite hypocritical if Pope is the one to be outraged enough to kill Adrian for having a "secret", when he himself has a major secret under his belt -- killing Cath. It's obvious that the proverb "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" doesn't jibe with the Cody family.

To be fair, it's not about having a secret but about putting them all in danger of going to prison for decades. Not that tha's right of course but that is the logic of the the families' actions.

At least the kid isn't around any more.

I still don't think Adrian has said anything to the cops about Deran or the Codys. I think Angela will be the real informant. She asks too many questions.

R95 I don't think Renn was never supposed to get rid of the baby. All I remember was she ran into Craig last season and told him he wasn't the dad.

I don't want to see Adrian killed off.

He and Deran are a gay love story for the ages...

Young Smurf is a good match for old Smurf. Someone did a good casting job.

Pope (to Deran): If Adrian knows about what we did and talks, you know what you got to do.

[quote] I find it quite hypocritical if Pope is the one to be outraged enough to kill Adrian for having a "secret", when he himself has a major secret under his belt -- killing Cath.

I don't know how or why you would compare these two things. They're totally different things. Adrian is contemplating ratting out the family to the cops

This has nothing to do with keeping a secret.

I liked the lady that sold the guns to Smurf

I don't think Angela has long to live

So, to recap the people who might go after Adrian:

Pope - he implied that Deran would have to permanently silence Adrian if Adrian is leaking to the police. He also knows that Deran has already lied to protect Adrian.

Smurf: She's pressuring her police contact to FIND OUT WHO IS RATTING ON THE FAMILY.

J,: Smurf told J that if he wants to be in charge of the family business that he needs to find out who is talking to the police and then take care of it.

So are the writers setting up Adrian to die? Or are they setting up Deran to die protecting Adrian? This is season 4, and so far only one brother has died (season 1- Scott Speedman.) Are the writers ready to kill off another?

Did you catch that Angela got out of prison WAY early? She’s a rat. She got released early to spy on the family. She can take the fall for Adrian.

Would love for Deran and Adrian to live happily ever after, but I realize that in the Animal Kingdom universe that's unlikely to happen.

I Just hope it doesn't come down to betrayal between the two of them.

Deran = christopher moltisanti Adrian = Adrianna la cerva Both will likely have the same fate.

[quote]Adrian is contemplating ratting out the family to the cops

No, he isn't. He has defended Deran and told the cops nothing. He literally told Pierce to arrest him because he won't rat out Deran and the Codys.

[quote]Pope - he implied that Deran would have to permanently silence Adrian if Adrian is leaking to the police.

He thought Deran told Adrian about killing Colby and that's why Adrian left. As far as we know, he doesn't suspect Adrian is talking to the cops. If he did then Adrian would already be dead. That's why Deran was adamant than Pope can never find out Adrian was arrested.

Angela was released from prison six years early and her friend even asked if she turned on someone. She's pressuring both Pope and J to find out about Smurf's money, where it is, who will receive it, etc and said "we don't have much time"... She's clearly the REAL informant. Adrian is a red herring. Hopefully he doesn't get caught in the crossfire and killed for something he didn't even do, but losing Adrian would be a way to get Deran on a darker path like Pope.

[quote]Watching Adrian together with Deran, it's funny to see them side by side. Adrian is way more pumped up and muscular than Deran, not to mention taller. Adrian is getting a little bit too buff.

What does this even mean? Adrian is an athlete. Why is it funny?

[quote] No, he isn't. He (Adrian) has defended Deran and told the cops nothing.

The last scene with Adrian and the cop ends with the cop telling Adrian that he won't do well in prison after Adrian says he won't talk about the Cody family. The scene ends focused on Adrian's face, just staring at the cop. It doesn't end with Adrian saying, "I don't care. Fuck you, " and then he leaves.

I think that it was filmed that way to keep it possible that he could have talked, after the cut, and the audience doesn't get to see it. We're left guessing that either (1) he did talk, or (2) he said nothing, and the scene supports Adrian's role as a possible red herring, as suggested earlier.

This season has been amazing.

I was almost going to tune out because seasons 2 and 3 sucked so badly, but i'm glad that I tuned back in.

In all honestly, Ellen Barkin and Jake Weary should receive Emmy nominations.

Ellen has shown this very intense contrast between Smurf's vulnerability and her hard egde, which I find amazing. In past seasons, she was kind of one note, but just watching her from scene to scene in season four, she has been amazing. In one moment, she's ready to break down because of her illness, and in the next moment, she's like, "I don't care what you do. Just give me my cut of the money." Freakin' awesome.

Jake has been equally noteworthy. In past seasons, he was kind of "just there."

Now that the writers have given him something to work with, he's going full force. I love how he is this gay-surfer-gangster, but nothing about his performance is over-the top. It's so subdued, and when he talks to Adrian, you can really feel the love. "You talked about my family. You talked about me." Then he switches to "You can never tell Pope." With this serious glare. Followed by, "Now let's go home." I don't care if he was playing gay or straight, Jake's performance is AMAZING.

In the last episode, though, his "I love you" was so powerful.

I really hope that Emmy voters watch this show and recognize these two performances.

So why is Smurf stockpiling all of those guns?

spam posted by ip address 5.226.139.164 removed.

While I do sadly think that a happy ending is probably very much out of the question, I really hope Adrian's story doesn't end with the tired, old "bury your gays" shit.

Adrian looked so cute at the end of this most recent episode.

He and Deran are just the perfect couple. Well, aside from the drugs and murder.

Deran says.... "I love you."

R112 I really thought Barkin was great in the scene where Pope says the day she dies will be the best day of his life. Smurf is an awful person and a worse mother, but I felt for her there.

Also agree Weary has been wasted over the years with dumb plots and only a few emotional scenes with Adrian and Smurf. Glad the writers are finally giving him a decent storyline.

I know J is the protagonist but he's the least interesting Cody to me and always has multiple plots going on while other characters live on scraps. The entire Mia storyline could and should have been trashed this season and the screen time given to someone else...

I also hate that they've made J into this manwhore, hooking up and using woman left and right. I cringed at all of his love scenes with the teacher, Nicky, Mia and now his latest conquest, the rich college girl. You know he will seduce the concert promoter if he needs to, all with no apparent sincerity. He's like a soulless user.

R116 You have terrible taste. Adrian is ugly as sin and Deran deserves better.

R119 This isn't a CW teen drama, sweetie. J isn't wearing a purity ring and saving himself for marriage. Him having a sex drive isn't even the most sinister thing he's done. Did you forget he's killed people?

I want J to have lots and lots of sex, especially when he reveals his luscious young ass. Yum.

"Adrian is ugly as sin and Deran deserves better."

Stereotypical shallow homosexual where looks are all that matters.

This latest job is so stupid. I thought J was supposed to be smart. The police are going to figure out that the thieves had security passes and that the mother controlled access to them. Showing their faces on the assumption that everyone will be too busy to notice them and no one will take any pics is not the Cody way. Wtf?

If J showed an ounce of love or caring towards his female friends, maybe I'd feel different. He is a blank slate, who never looks like he's having fun with these chicks. He'd get more sympathy is he seemed to have feelings for them or anyone, for that matter. He's an android with family also - expressionless.

The job is so stupid that I actually wondered whether J was trying to get them caught for some reason. Like he had some kind of plan where they could get caught and he could get away with it and inherit Smurf's money while they're in prison.

I don't think that is the case though, and it still wouldn't explain why they were going along with it.

[quote]He's like a soulless user.

Which is EXACTLY what he has been since the very first scene of the series in which he is sitting on the sofa watching television with his dead overdosed mother.

At the beginning, I had hopes that J would be a character I could like. It’s weird how the show opened from his perspective as we are introduced to the family, but then he ceased to be the central character.

J isn't as attractive as I thought he was.

In season one, his ass definitely caught my attention.

However, Deran and Adrian quickly took over, and now they are my reason for watching.

J has become this sullen, monotone bore of a character. He has no personality. Same for Pope. It's always this depressed psycho persona.

The only ones with any sort of "meat" to their characters, are Janine, Deran, and Craig. And Craig is not that exciting either, to be honest.

That's why I hope they don't get rid of Adrian. His relationship with Deran is the best thing on television.

[quote]It’s weird how the show opened from his perspective as we are introduced to the family, but then he ceased to be the central character.

Tell me about it.

I feel like Craig, Pope and Deran warning J about people seeing them while they take the soundboards is foreshadowing. This job might not go as planned.

It won't go as planned, R131.

Something is going to smash into the getaway ambulance (as seen in the preview for the next episode), and they're going to blame jay for it, because someone is going to get bloodied up.

I almost wonder if Smurf had something to do with it?

Dang, J is getting more gangster every episode. Did I miss something, or did Mia say who paid her to kill Baz?

She said Smurf paid Pete and Pete got her to do it R133

Honestly, that concert job shouldn't even have half-worked the way it did. I thought they were meant to have been planning jobs for years? Surely they're ambulance uniforms can only take them so far - there were clearly other people wondering around, and anyone could have noticed the extremely suspicious - put large expensive soundboard on trolley and then put it into the back of the ambulance maneuver.

It was just luck that Craig wasn't caught in the van as well, wearing a gas mask and talking jewellery off unconscious people.

^^ I meant 'their'

Yes. This heist was totally implausible. Not the least of the problems: J was working for the person in charge of security under his real name and was connected to her by a college classmate. Ridiculous writing.

This was an amazing episode, in terms of excitement.

And J has totally turned to the dark side. Crazy. Though I knew that he was going to kill Mia. She was a real fucking bitch for doing that to him and his brothers.

I never thought that they would kill her off, but now that she and J broke up, she has no more role on the show.

Can't wait to see what Smurf has been up to.

Will Smurf be dead by the end of the season, or will they prolong her cancer death for another season? Will her evil twin sister show up next season and wreak havoc on the brothers?

I don't want Smurf to die of cancer. I want the guys to kill her in the most awful way possible.

I want Cher to come on as Smurf's mother and burn the place down!

I told you I was hardcore.

I've a hunch that Renn might be the informant, she probably got caught while selling drugs so got offered a deal in change of bringing some info about Codys.

Adrian is looking more and more TERRIFIED of Deran... lol.

Whenever Deran talks to him, he can't speak. He's frozen.

I was so glad one of the Cody's got to kill Mia. I was shocked though that her uncle just turned her over to be killed. That was cold AF.

Not all uncles are uncle uncles.

[quote] I was shocked though that her uncle just turned her over to be killed. That was cold AF.

That's "the life." It's cold and heartless.

Tupi was an asshole, so killing him was no big deal.

However, Pete said that he was sad and disappointed about Mia, so it seems fitting that he left it up to J to deal with her.

Bottom line, you don't steal money from the big dogs, and you DON'T do jobs without letting them know about it. That's the moral of the story.

It says a lot about working for Smurf - she must be a good boss/pays well for Pete to let his own relative be killed because he wants to keep Smurf/ the Cody's on his good side.

The next thing to hype up the drama is now that J knows that Smurf paid to have Baz killed, will he want to take revenge on Smurf. Even on the off chance that Baz WAS his father, is it worth it to him to kill her or will he recognize that Baz had stolen from Smurf and that is not something she'll let you walk away from.

"Cody's "

Oh, dear.

Refresh my memory. Does Pope know that Smurf had Baz killed?

Yes. R151

Angela needs to go. Couldn’t be more boring or the performance less convincing.

Jay is savage - he's killed two people so far and yesterday he's setting up to get rid of Angela. She's been egging J to usurp Surf and get his hands on her money. I think he's finally had enough of her lurking and whispering, so he takes her to a drug area and drops a $100 bill on the table and leaves. It looks like she got high and that will get her gone faster.

I was sad for Pope - he was so low that he sought out Lena for comfort and she looked terrified to see him. Ouch.

Just had a premonition. What are the odds that it will turn out that Smurf killed Pope’s father?

I found it very interesting that Adrian told Deran, "Not his children" in terms of getting the FBI agent to back off. I feel that was Deran's plan all along. Quite frankly I'm up for anything that keeps Deran and Adrian together and alive.

Renewed.

Will Smurf survive?

Do you think Ellen Barkin is going to give up a paycheck that easily?

She'll die from cancer. Then her evil-er twin sister will surface.

Could she also be an alien please r160?

R57 Thanks for the great news!

R169

Barkin doesn't need a paycheck. She got a huge payout from her divorce from Ron Perlman.

Yeah, r163. She would just turn it down.

Another amazing episode.

I don't blame Ellen Barkin for complaining about the show over the past two seasons, because the writing truly did SUCK.

Maybe it was her complaining that made the writing get better, because in my opinion, this is the best season yet.

The storylines are deep and interesting, and the characters are people that you want to get to know more about.

I love that J is turning out to be this very evil character. It's so true-to-life, because his youthful and innocent appearance are so disarming to people. Never in a million years would they expect him to be so cold.

I'm happy that the kid is Craig's. I'm rooting for Craig and Renn.... and Craig's son.

Deran and Adrian remain my favorite characters. The way that Deran would do anything to protect Adrian... omg. I wish I had somebody like that.

The lady who plays young Smurf is so good. She's not only beautiful, but she can also ACT. I'm loving the backstory.

Overall, I would definitely give season four an "A" grade.

After the payoff in last nights episode, I can overlook all of those Smurf flashbacks. All of her back story has led up to finding out that she thinks that there's a stockpile of gold in that bunker and she's recruiting her boys to steal it. However, I wonder if Smurf is doing this for her own ego, to show that she's still a vital part of the gang even with cancer, or she's looking for a one big last jackpot to leave for the kids.

I really want Smurf to kick that lurker Angela OUT ASAP. She's a waste of screen time.

[quote] The lady who plays young Smurf is so good. She's not only beautiful, but she can also ACT.

Leila George. I looked her up and found she is the daughter of Vincent D'Onofrio and Greta Scacchi. Finally, nepotism works out.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Ew, ew, ew!

Leila has got a body for days!

Does Barkin's script call for permanent duck-face?

Is she currently dating Penn?

Greta Scacchit is gorgeous.

[quote]I googled her and found out that she was dating.... SEAN PENN, of all people!

Has he started beating her yet?

That guy Jed (in the flashbacks) is a creep. Besides being a survivalist and a wife beater, he snuck up on Smurf and got right up on her with rapey energy. I'm sure she will enjoy killing him in the upcoming job she has planned.

Interested to see if Renn and the baby stays with Craig. Doubtful, since she's aware of what his family does - neither of them would want their child in danger.

Is Jed going to be Pope's dad?

Loving all the stuff with Deran and Adrian at the moment.

Wow, didn’t know “Animal Kingdom” featured a gay couple. I think I’ll start watching!

R165 I agree with you, ever since J gutted the lawyer things have gotten good.

[quote] Is Jed going to be Pope's dad?

Of course not.

Janine was pregnant before she and her boyfriend even got to Jed's compound.

R179

Then who's Pope's dad? I kind out zone out during the flashbacks to Janine's life.

It's Jed's brother. The one she has been fucking since the beginning of the season.

His character's name is "Colin," but the actor's name is Grant Harvey. I kind of have a crush on him.

[quote] I kind of have a crush on him

oooh Grant and R181, sitting in a tree...

I just started watching Animal Kingdom today, the men are ALL very sexy. Trashy, but very sexy.

J is not trashy. But he is dangerous.

[quote]The one she has been fucking since the beginning of the season.

Almost.

Whoops, you're right R185.

She was sleeping with "Jake" (Jon Beavers) first, and then she dumped him and started fucking "Colin" (Grant Harvey).

They're both pretty damned hot.

I think it's cool how they have two completely different casts working side-by-side, and keep flipping back and forth.

What's nice is that the editors make the transition seem very natural. The show flows quite smoothly, and tells a good story at the same time.

Love, love, love...

I miss Baz.

I would have traded him out for Pope.

Craig is really dumb. He had this shocked look on his face when he was told the baby was his. Did he not make the connection that fucking the baby’s mother nine months ago might have led to this result?

Buzz is so dreamy!

Who's Buzz? Do you mean BAZ?

If yes, then I agree. Scott Speedman is sexy as fuck!

I miss Baz, too. IMO his story line is still not done - even finding out that Smurf ordered his hit which was carried out by Mia is not closure. I will never feel like the this is tied up until we find out if he was really J's father and the rest of the brothers learn that Pope killed Cath.

We already knew Mia killed him. But it seems whatever plot the writers had in mind for that was dropped. Nothing came of it.

Why did Speedman leave?

Was surprised to see Joseph Morgan on this episode. Hadn't seen him in anything since The Originals. Strange to hear him try to do an American accent.

R194

The show is based on an Aussie show. The Aussie show was based om a real mom and her crime family.

In the Aussie show the Baz character was killed at the end of season one. The EP for the US version said they liked SS so much they kept him around longer. SS knew going in his character would be killed.

The mom is the Aussie show sexually abused all the boys as they grew up. That's been omitted from the US version although it's walked a thin line that something untoward went on between the,

She would walk in on J when he was showering.

Scott Speedman is a terrible actor. I feel like the show only got better when he left, though he was hot.

Scott Speedman is a terrible actor. I feel like the show only got better when he left, though he was hot.

R196 Did the real life mom sexually abuse her kids?

R200

Yes

No! Don’t make Daryl decide between his family and his lovah! Too cruel.

^Deran

Crazy good episode again!

That scene between Angela and Pope during the ;party, was INSANE! So real and so nuts!

J is becoming worse and worse with every episode, but I'm glad that he showed that rich bitch who's boss.

So no Adrian has to go into witness protection? Yikes.

Two more episodes left, and I watched every single episode this entire season. It has been THAT good.

J is becoming pure evil.

After his conversation with Pope, I'm starting to wonder if he gave his own mother the bad drugs that killed her.

From way back in season one, I got the impression that he hated his mother and he was sick of her shit.

This season (seeing the evil J), it's really starting to look more and more that way.

I'm confused - Smurf gave a bag of money to a woman cooking at the house. I didn't catch the sons name, but she said it was in thanks for the son's help and that the son is in prison now, but what business did the son and Smurf have together?

R206, i was wondering the same thing.

I think Smurf will send J after Adrian since she implied that he'll be in charge of the family business after she's gone.

[quote]I think Smurf will send J after Adrian

She told Deran she'd send Pope after Adrian unless Deran "took care" of it himself.

I just assumed the son of the meat lady was someone who'd done business with Smurf years before -- prior to what's been depicted since the beginning of the show.

The DVR on Directv Now cut off before the end of the show - right as Renn was telling Craig about her uncle Nicholas and she likes that name for the baby. Did anything else happen after that?

R209 yeah I know but i think Deran will be unwilling to take care of his lover and Pope still has remorse because of killing Baz's wife. So, Smurf might want to test J whether he's capable of handling anyone or anything that happen to be a threat to the family.

R211 No

I think that Janine giving the money to "Rose" the taco lady, was just to show that Janine is starting to give her money away now to "worthy causes," because she's dying.

Yeah 214, I don't think we were meant to know or really care about the backstory. The woman seemed nervous and unhappy around Smurf though - I think we were supposed to imagine that it was less loyalty and more fear that kept her son from informing on the Codys to get a deal. This of course ties in with Adrian's story and Smurf telling Deran to kill him or Pope will.

It's really hard for me to imagine J as some threatening gangster.

When I see him on screen, he looks like this short, skinny kid, trying to act tough.

Truth is, any of his uncles could beat him to a pulp, with one flick of the wrist.

I don't have a problem with seeing him as a bit scary - he acts very blank eyed and we've seen what he's capable of. As for his uncles, I very much doubt they're meant to be scared of him, more that they have no reason to want to hurt him at the moment and why would they? It would be massively disruptive to the family dynamic and Smurf likes him too.

What I don't understand is why they all went along with his terrible idea of robbing the concert. They've all been doing this years and it was crap idea from their teenage nephew with not much experience of pulling jobs.

I like the fact that Deran is starting to see their fucked up family objectively though, thinking of how they all could have been if they didn't have a mother like Smurf.

Who are all of these young people that were at the party? I can't believe that Smurf would have actual friends and typically her sons' friends would be invited by them, not their mother.

I know, that was a bit random. Why would smurf want all those young people around anyway? unless it was meant to be for the benefit of her sons. But none of them seemed to be there for the boys, just because it was a party.

I was actually waiting for the damned party!

It was hilarious how during season one, there was a party nearly every night at the Cody house, with tons of people and drugs and booze. Then all of a sudden it all disappeared in seasons two and three.

All I could think of is what happened to all the damned house parties from season one???!! And I finally got it.

Only difference now is how different all the boys are. Craig and Deran used to be so crazy and drugged up, and now they're boring as fuck. Pope has always been brooding.

I think it really shows how they've grown up in last few years and Smurf can no longer guy them/keep them docile with parties and drugs and alcohol. She'd arranged it all and none of them were into it, so it ended up looking kind of sad, her and a house full of young people.

[quote]It would be massively disruptive to the family dynamic and Smurf likes him too.

Smurf doesn't trust J. At all.

Whether or not she trusts him he is still part of the family fold, and she trusted him enough to support his last idea for a job. None of the boys would have anything to gain from beating him up, which was the point being made. Power isn't only physical power or about who could beat who up. Although Jay's position is not completely secure, especially with Smurf dying in the near future.

I think Pope will choose Deran over Smurf and won't kill Adrian

Next episode is called Julia so we should learn what Smurf did to her.

Women have fucked Pope up, I hope he latches on to some cute twink into his dom daddy ‘tude and finds love and partnership. He must have been the alpha in jail and had some sweet boy bitches right?

Part of me is hoping that Pope's days of being Smurf's in-house hitman are over, after the Cath incident. Pope hates Smurf for that, and for the Lena situation, and I think he just might refuse a demand from her to kill Adrian. Sadly, for us Adrian/Deran fans, that doesn't mean she won't get someone else to do it... maybe her cop friend James Remar.

I think Deran will kill Adrian

No R227, that can't be! If he did I feel like that would pointlessly undo a few seasons worth of character development. In the clip he is trying to send him away to protect him. Maybe he gets killed before that happens but I don't believe Deran does it.

So will the season end with Adrian’s ambiguous death waiting to see if it happened next season?

Someone upthread said something about Linc coming back? was that speculation or for definite does anyone know?

Well it seems Deran may soon have an opening on his dance card.

Deran blew a guy's brains out just to protect Adrian so having him murder him now would be the most backwards, shitty writing ever. Also, according to this show's subreddit and Twitter (and apparently Ellen Barkin herself), it doesn't look like Smurf is making it past this season so if she's out of the picture, the problem pretty much goes away.

I don’t see how they can do the show without her.

Yeah, she’s like the star of the show.

That constant duckface must have done irreparable damage to her face. She quit.

I still don't get why Ellen Barkin is getting fired.

Exactly what kind of "shit" did she talk about the show?

Did she comment on the shitty writing for the past two seasons? Because she was right.

And they must have taken it to heart, because this season's writing has been phenomenal. You can probably thank Ellen for that, and for calling them out.

She didn't start attacking the show until after learning she was getting killed off this season.

Well then I don't blame her, R237.

She IS the show.

It won't be the same without Smurf. Those boys can't carry Animal Kingdom, and that's a fact.

Even more so, if they kill off Adrian, too.

My guess is if Smurf is really gone after this season then next season will be the last for this show.

R238 Perhaps Smurf is killed off and they hide her body and Adrian goes into deep cover impersonating Smurf and Deran moves home and they live in that fabulous house. This would be a wink and a nod to the incest in the family the story is based on and would be a twist no one saw coming.

There are only 2 episodes left. There's no reason to kill Smurf off this season when she can linger into the next.

The only way this show could work without Ellen Barkin is to have young Smurf (Leila George) time travel to the present and kick J's ass.

Leila George is absolutely stunning. No idea that her parents are D'Onofrio and Greta Scacchi

Ellen Barkin is making it clear on twitter that she isn't back next season. I guess Smurf will die during the gold bunker job?

She has terminal cancer and is not being treated. That might have something to do with her death.

I really feel like Smurf is important to the whole dynamic of the show, the strange relationship she has with her sons, and the psychological effect on that on them, is what makes the show more than just another crime dram - without it the Cosy boys (barring perhaps Deran) are not particularly interesting. That is part of why this season is much more interesting than season three when Smurf was in prison.

I'm also wary to see how the show goes if they lose Ellen Barkin. However, I'm willing to give the show some slack, to see how it fares after Smurf is written out.

I watched the show "Vikings" and was ready to bail after the main character Ragnar was killed off - how could this show stay on point after dropping this absolutely charismatic backbone of the series? It was a pleasant surprise that the show kept its integrity afterwards. Hoping AK does the same.

You can’t maintain the integrity of a show that is about a matriarch and her offspring without the matriarch. Maybe they can manage to make something out of what’s left, but it will be a profoundly different, probably less interesting show.

R247, you said it!

Why would the show runners fire Ellen Barkin from Animal Kingdom, knowing that she IS the show?

THEY should have been fired. Not her.

James Remar is really good at playing a sleazy old crooked cop.

R249

Rumor has it Barkin was causing trouble & being difficult with the brass & the cast

Maybe she got too into character as Smurf?

She obviously misses the days when all she had to do was flash her muff on camera and get paid a few extra thousand.

I didn't like how Barkin played the character. That mouth. The way she walks. So affected.

Does anyone know what the walk is all about? she looks like she's in pain - I'm assuming it was an artistic decision. I don't find Smurf easy to watch but then maybe you're not meant to. The contrast between her cold and stilted demeanour and her creepy performance of the idea of nurturing (making lots of food, calling them 'baby') creates a weird disjuncture. You can see how she's fucked up her sons with mixed signals and distorted values since they were young. I feel like Pope both needs her and hates her and hates that he needs her, which is precisely the dynamic she created.

^^^ I don't know, but when I tried to Google it this is what I got lol!

haha, brilliant R256

Preview for this week’s episode, I still think this actress is the weakest link to ever be on this series in what is usually quite fine performances. And Pope is only supposed to only be 40, I get that it’s a hard forty, but I thought he was older? Young Smurf is pregnant with him at what looks about 21 now, but I thought Smurf was at least in her early 70s. Just looked EB is only 65, thought she was older?

Oh crap, another preview, this one with our lovers. If Smurf’s death is so that Adrian can live I am perfectly fine with that!

I have this feeling if Adrian doesn't die, he's still going to be written off the show. Hope I'm wrong.

R260 I swear I read somewhere that Adrian’s real life sister is one of the writers. I hope she would fight for the character.

Eliza Clark is an Executive Producer and writer on the show

Hatosy directed tonight's episode.

He also directed one last season - he did a pretty good job except he tended to these music video-esque set pieces with the cast posed around like a Miami Vice episode.

New episode tonight. Only two more before the end of the season.

I'll be sad to see Smurf go.

It'll be the end of the show for me, that's for sure.

The previews made it seem like Deran is going to make Adrian go away for a very long time.

Um, excuse me! Did we know Julia was Pope’s twin??? This was new info for me.

Pretty good episode. Deran is definitely planning on leaving with Adrian and never coming back. The actress playing Adrian's sister said her big emotional scene with Adrian in either 12 or 13 was cut so I wonder what direction they are going in now that they have another season...

I knew Colin was going to have to die but i thought it would be on a job. He died for Janine and that is what broke her as a person... I liked them together. It's sad he never got to meet his kids.

Weakest link by far was the Angela stuff with Pope and J. Added liters nothing to the episode and we didn't learn anything new. Why even name the episode Julia when we learned nothing new? After four seasons, you would think the writers would have a better balance of characters/storylines but they are still trying to cram too many plots into one episode. Scenes are always getting cut, especially Deran/Adrian ones it seems. This season would have been much better and tighter if they had cut the entire Angela character and her useless drama. Pope and J already had a rivalry without adding her.

Why no 2019 Smurf? Trouble on the set?

I thought that this was an AMAZING episode. In my opinion, these season has surpassed season one in terms of writing and acting.

I disagree that Angela and Pope's scenes are not interesting. I think that Angela is a amazing addition to the show. Her acting in this episode was fantastic, and when you put Pope up next to her, I think that his acting becomes elevated, as well. She really brings him out of his shell.

I think that Deran will return, and Adrian will just disappear for a season or more. It sounds like Deran is just going to escort Adrian to wherever they're going, and then he'll be back in a little while.

By far, the best scenes were with young Smurf and Colin. I actually didn't think that he would die. I thought that maybe he went to jail, or just left her because he didn't want kids. That scene where he died was pretty heart wrenching, and pretty powerful.

I am thoroughly enjoying this season, and maybe the show doesn't need Ellen Barkin, because it has been really good, despite the fact that she hasn't been around too much.

I'm hopeful for season five, as long as the writers keep pushing themselves, and don't return to the absolute shit writing of seasons two and three.

The editing and the transitions between scenes, is really making the episodes pop.

I absolutely love the juxtaposition between Janine's old life, and the life of her boys. It really sheds a lot of light on why they are the way they are, but even more interesting, is how they are trying to change for the better.

Deran is running a business, Craig wants to be a good father, and Pope just wants to settle down with a woman who tells him the truth and isn't on drugs. It's such an interesting dynamic.

Then you have J who seemingly was the "good guy," and he has turned out to be the worst of all the Codys.

Like I said, great writing this season.

Craig's baby mama does not seem to care much for the infant. It looks like we have Craig the single father as a drama arc next season.

It's kind of funny how Craig and Pope are assuming the "caretaker" roles, and Angela and Renn are the ones fucking up and being irresponsible.

It's kind of a nice twist.

R267, yes, we knew that.

[quote]I think that Deran will return, and Adrian will just disappear for a season or more. It sounds like Deran is just going to escort Adrian to wherever they're going, and then he'll be back in a little while.

No, that's just what he told Craig. It's clear by the lingering looks around the bar and Smurf's house that he's saying goodbye. Obviously something will happen to either keep him there or bring him back, but currently he is planning on leaving for good.

He’ll come back for the funeral.

The big emotional scene with Adrian and his sister was supposed to be in episode 12, but has since been cut according to the actress. She speculated that maybe they have changed how s4 was supposed to end since the show was picked up for s5.

I'm in the minority here but I'm not into the Smurf flashbacks I mean...are they even going to have time to show how she went from hippie to cunt before Smurf dies? Also, I'm not really interested in humanizing her. That's a great way to ruin a character.

"That's a great way to ruin a character."

Not really. Movies frequently humanize a villain/antagonist.

I wonder if they will continue the flashbacks next season. They talk about Julia so much without ever revealing what happened to cut her out of the family, so they could explore that. Maybe J's flashbacks?

"Ghosts"

Tuesday, August 13, at 9 p.m. (ET/PT)

The Cody family sets off on Smurf's (Ellen Barkin) mysterious heist, unaware of the surprises that await them when they arrive, which will change the family forever.

Directed by John Wells

Written by John Wells

--------

Tuesday, August 20, at 9 p.m. (ET/PT)

In the aftermath of Smurf's (Ellen Barkin) heist, the Codys have to protect their reputation, while friends and enemies from the past close in. Deran (Jake Weary) realizes there is only one way to keep Adrian (Spencer Treat Clark) safe. Craig (Ben Robson) struggles to adapt to a new pace of life as Pope (Shawn Hatosy) and J's (Finn Cole) growing tension reaches a boiling point.

Directed by David Rodriquez

Written by Eliza Clark

Accidentally cut off the title of the finale, which is "Smurf".

John Wells coming back to write and direct episode 12 makes me think that is her death episode.

How do they expect the show to carry on without Ellen Barkin? These predictions of Smurf's death don't make sense.

R284 Barkin hasn't even been around much this season and the show has been good. It will survive without her.

I don't think losing Barkin would have a negative effect. In the first & second seasons yes. They've been concentrating & fleshing out the boys for the last 2 years.

Right now the boys all seem to be splintered with separate priorities. It would be interesting to see how they react to her death. Will they implode, will they come together or will some of them work their way out of the business.

From what I've seen, it looks like J could become the one who takes charge in searching out and planning the jobs. He's learned from Smurf and is pretty smart and ruthless. The only thing is his uncles giving the power to the youngest member of their team, but they may see he's got the chops if this job that Frankie brought to him goes well.

It’s still Smurf holding the family together. Even if J takes control, he would never be able to make a decision like killing Baz or Lena’s mother or Adrian. Without the ruthless self-defense, they’d get caught.

[quote] The only thing is his uncles giving the power to the youngest member of their team, but they may see he's got the chops if this job that Frankie brought to him goes well.

If anyone should have been killed off from the show, it's this "Frankie" character.

She's ugly and useless.

I don't know why they kept her on. She must be fucking one of the "higher ups," because she is gross.

Well, there's still time for Frankie to die.

[quote] there's still time for Frankie to die.

Let's hope it's sooner, rather than later.

I fast forward through every scene she's in.

Ellen Barkin's character Smurf hasn't even had much screen time this season. Does anyone know what if anything is going on with her and the producers/creators? Is there bad blood? Are they purposely making the sons the main characters and reducing her presence as a precursor to eliminating the character?

Can anyone summarize what is known behind the scenes? TIA

R291 This covers a lot of that. Click the link in the first comment as well.

I can’t see how this show is in any way as good without Barkin. It’s just kind of any other basic cable crime show.

Okay, so apparently Ellen Barkin's biggest gripe (based on her Tweets) is that she feels like they were icing her out in favor of a "younger face."

She seems pissed that Vincent D'Onofrio and Greta Scaachi's daughter because they want someone younger to play Smurf.

She also feels like AK is burying her Tweets, to hide the truth, and that they are breaking the law by doing so.

Ellen keeps saying that all she does on the show is bake pies, because a 60-plus year old woman can't pull of a heist, nor can she have sex with men, because she's too old.

I kind of have to side with her. This seems to be a common gripe among older actresses.

They should have done more with Smurf's bisexuality.

Someone on twitter commented how gorgeous young Smurf was, and asked if the character worked as a part-time model between bank heists, thus the older Smurf's acquired duckface and chicken walk. Another commented: No, she got polio. Barkin replied: Not amused.

I can see the show making changes if it's true that Barkin threw something at Jake but it hit a production person. If that's true then no telling what other outbursts or problems she's instigated.

If the cast & crew people were complaining or even threatening to quit I can see the show moving on without her.

Maybe next season Animal Kingdom introduces a time travel scifi twist and young Smurf projects to the future and takes Ellen Barkin's place! Seriously, I'm really enjoying young Smurf and going to miss the actress and the story line when it presumably ends this year.

[quote]Not really. Movies frequently humanize a villain/antagonist.

Yah...and that ruins the character. The show has been moving away from the Smurf matriarchy for a few seasons now. Too late.

So Ellen threw something at a cast member - she went full Faye Dunaway.

I always thought Dunaway was scapegoated throughout her career - not that her behavior isn't abusive - but that she's far from the only abusive artist out there. Hollywood knows it's better to focus attention on one rather than many.

Now, what I want to know is why Barkin was so mad at Jake?

Having her in prison last year kept her away from the cast except for Finn.

This is a weird crossover with audiences who would not have usually overlapped.

Smurf's character has been so one-note nasty this year that I've really gotten tired of her. The flashback scenes with her younger self have really made up for it. The younger actress is a lot prettier than Barkin was back in the day, though.

J is such a cipher because the actor playing him is not really talented enough to create a real character. He plays a similar type on Pinky Blinders and he's not any better there.

[quote]Pinky Blinders

There's a gay version now?

So I guess we'll see if the rumors are right about Smurf dying in this episode.

The season really flew by for me, because it was so damned good!

Oh my, “I’m eight and a half months pregnant!” “You have a mouth don’t you?”

Nitpick: Young Jeb and old Jeb look nothing alike. Otherwise that was a dramatic and sad episode. RIP Smurf.

I know, R306 - that line disgusted me.

Well, someone has morals.

I haven't watched tonight's episode, but something that I felt hasn't been answered is how Smurf came to despise her daughter and act so inappropriately with her sons. We learned in EP11 that Pope is 40, which has to be at least ten years older than Craig. So for a long time it was just Smurf, Pope and Julia. Smurf was immensely fucked up by Colin's death, and as far as we know, he was THE love of her life. The two of them were good together. He probably would have been a good father. In Pope, Smurf saw an opportunity to (kind of) recreate the love she and Colin shared, but Julia was always in the way, likely thinking and probably expressing how strange the relationship between her mother and brother was, and Smurf grew to hate her. It has been mentioned repeatedly how close Pope and Julia were growing up. Smurf couldn't stand that and did everything she could to keep them apart so she could have Pope (and later her other sons) all to herself.

R309 John Wells says we will see young Smurf and the twins next season, so we might finally get those answers.

Loved when Jed's wife tackled him off Smurf.

Now J knows about Adrian, I assume Deran will make Adrian leave on his own and stay behind with the family to protect him. Hope that won't be the last we see of them together but no one gets a happy ending on this show...

R.I.P Smurf. You will be missed.

Wow, that ending was INSANE!!!!

I knew this season was going to be good. The more I watched, the more I was hooked.

But I had no idea where it was going to go. That episode was a total shocker.

I don't know who this guy "John Wells" is, who wrote and directed the episode, but he should get an Emmy for it. The whole episode was POWERFUL, and so well done.

Also, Ellen Barkin's acting towards the end, was so strong.

I don't know what's coming up next, but I think that anything after this, is going to be a huge letdown.

J has become a total savage.

The only issue I had with this season was the casting of young Jed versus old Jed. Young Jed was so sinister and creepy, but old Jed was kind of sweet and nice.. lol. It didn't match.

Those babies, though. Omg... so cute.

Smurf dying was no surprise. Ellen Barkin has had a stick up her ass on twitter for awhile now-just bitter and angry. It kinda ruined it for me. Even her acting this season seemed way over the top and much different than the previous seasons. Something seemed off the whole season. Smurf was integral to the show's plot, but I like how the story is moving forward with a major character dying. Though, I would have liked to see the sons find out that she put the hit on Baz and what the aftermath would have been.

R212

John Wells was the executive producer of ER, China Breach, West Wing, Southland, etc...

[quote]no one gets a happy ending on this show...

no one deserves a happy ending on this show.

Just watched the episode. I was really hoping Angela would drown in that tub.

J is most definitely the most savage of the bunch. Pope is the most tragic of the bunch..

Was truly surprised by Smurf's death. But still can't comprehend how these four numbnuts have the technical expertise to pull off the complicated heists they do.

How did she died?

She tried dying in a shootout but Pope saved her, so she begged him to shoot her. He wouldn't do it and she lost her shit until J pulled the trigger.

J. shot her in the head. Why is complicated.

R319

Smurf wanted to die during the heist. She was shot but Pope scooped her up & threw her in the car. She was furious & fighting him.

The other boys knew something had gone wrong because of all the gun fire. The guys met up on a coutry road with Pope & Smurf. She was raging & lashing out. She demanded Pope kill her. She didn't want to die in a hospital. She had a gun on him. He refused to do it.

She was spitting venom at him. She fired a shot at him grazing the side of his head. She was telling him to kill her or the next one would kill him. J pulled out a gun & shot her in the head t protect Pope & to shut her up.

You forgot to mention that she said she felt like she was already dead due to terminal cancer and didn’t want to die helpless in a hospital and that she wanted Pope to die in the shootout with her because he couldn’t survive without her. I told you it was complicated.

Back in Season 2, Smurf and J attended a funeral - she told him then that if anything every happened to her, she wanted him to make sure that to put a bullet in her head instead of letting her suffer. He kept that promise last night when he saw that her sons couldn't bring themselves to shoot her.

^now that’s added value.

R324 Yes, great foreshadowing on AK's part!

Deran told Adrian he can't wait to get out of town after Smurf's death. Good luck with that, Deran. Psycho J will exterminate Adrian. The family business goes on as usual and everyone lives 'happily' into the next season.

I think that J would have done it, no matter what, R324. He really hated her.

That scene was so weird. It was almost like they were all relieved when J shot her. Like, "whew, we can all breathe now."

Their reactions to her death were all very different, too.

No doubt, they were all traumatized. But Pope is going to be the most lost without her, because he needed her the most.

Craig seemed to be the one with the best relationship with Smurf, because he was the most easy going. I think that he was the most emotional over her death.

Deran was the fastest to get over it. He never liked her. And I'm wondering if he's going to stick to what he said to Adrian. "We're getting out of here, and never coming back." He knows how fucked up his family is, and he wants no part of it.

And J is now some kind of crazy Godfather.

The wildcard is the Prepper cousins. You know that Odin and his brothers are coming after the Codys. And they know their names and where they live, because they have Pope's truck.

Most importantly, though. What happened to the GOLD??!!

I assume the boys packed it up before they heard the gunshots.

I notice Deran doesn't even get to kiss Adrian goodbye and they have their scenes cut down to nothing, but Craig and Renn get to kiss and sit there silently. Weary is one of the better actors on the show but the homophobia of the directors(editors/network does him a disservice.

R327 In a twist, I hope J does go after Adrian, but falls in love with him and it's mutual and Adrian becomes the new gun mol of the Cody bunch.

I first thought that Smurf brought Pope along to Jeb's place because it would give her an easy way in - Look who I brought, your long lost nephew! However, that turned into a more Smurf bad mothering when she took Pope to his father's grave with no prior notice. It really turned shitty when she admitted that she wanted Pope to die there with her.

I felt even more terrible for him at the end, when he was sitting in the room with her corpse. What he must have been thinking about her, his whole life, his father, etc. How Smurf used him (killing Cath, getting rid of Lena) and how she didn't even think he would be able to exist without her - he'd be better off dead.

Now I just need for J to kill Angela before the end of next week's show.

J is a bottom. He doesn't know it yet. Adrian is also a bottom. It's not gonna work. And, given that r329 is crying homophobia, the gay professional victims on this thread assure us there will be no homosex happening next season.

I wonder if Smurf left a monster life insurance policy for her boys. Their life was always going for the next big score, so it seems reasonable that she's set it up so they got a big cashout when she died.

[quote] I wonder if Smurf left a monster life insurance policy for her boys

It was the gold.

Based on this past episode, the gold was to be left for Craig, Deran and J.

She fully intended for Pope to die, which is SO fucked up.

I can't help but laugh my ass off at how much Bsrkin was hated.

#1 Blind Gossip had a BI awhile back that they revealed today as being about how hated Barking was by cast & crew & how impossible she was to deal with. The show runners decided after last year that they were going to kill her off this year. The actors who played her 'boys' were so excited they'd pour over each script hoping they'd be the one to off the bitch.

#2 John Wells gave an interview to EW discussing last night's episode & the decision to kill off Smurf.. I guess if you've been in the biz as long as he has you've mastered the art of spinning a lie and making people believe it. LMAO. I also think a lot of what he said was Grade A shade.

I'm gonna miss Manny.

The guy who plays him (Rigo Sanchez) is sexy as fuck!

So were they running around singing “Ding dong the witch is dead” the day after her last scene?

It sure looked like Ellen Barkin wasn't acting, when she was screaming at the boys.

"Don't you dare fucking touch me!!!!!"

"None of you can survive without me!!!!"

I wouldn't doubt if she wrote those lines herself. And I'll bet she meant every word of it.

"I think Smurf will send J after Adrian since she implied that he'll be in charge of the family business after she's gone."

I told you.

[quote]I also think a lot of what (John Wells) said was Grade A shade.

Indeed:

"...here were endless conversations about who would actually shoot her. The cast was very interested in that."

Why is this no surprise, heads had to roll.

That pic of her has to be 20 years old.

Polite posters provide links.

Wow, what a bitch:

Many fans bid farewell while Barkin cheekily tweeted “Next episode Smurf’s will is opened. She left her boys a hit tv show.” She added, “Carry on Codys…well, maybe not all Codys.”

Tee hee.

Ellen Barkin is mad as hell, and she isn't going to take it anymore!

In case you were wondering, the title song is called “Welcome to the Jungle” with music by Trent Reznor and lyrics by Atticus Ross (both of Nine Inch Nails). It is sung by Claudia Sarne who is in a band called 12 Rounds with Ross and is married to him.

Many Bothans died to bring us this information.

Isn't that copyright infringement, R347?

Guns 'N Roses already wrote "Welcome to the Jungle."

Song titles are not copyrighted.

Have any of the actors who played her sons tweeted out any goodbye statements. I don't see any. Very telling.

Despise Angela (actress and character) but the absolute worst is the blonde who looked like she had her face smashed in with a shovel. The one with the art and real estate heists. She's gone, right?

No. She showed up a little while ago to propose a job to J.

Barkin embarrassed herself with her caterwauling in her final scenes. This whole year she has seemed disinterested and affected. Good riddance.

That sneering an elegant dragging became increasingly pronounced. Was it ever explained why she walked like that?

R345, no, not a bitch at all. Many people, among them I, watch the show because of her.

I watch the show for the hot guys.

[quote]I think that J would have done it, no matter what, [R324]. He really hated her.

I don’t think he hated Smurf. Some semblance of a parental dynamic was there. I think it’s more complicated than hate. Certainly, wasn't love tho.

Man, Barkin's walk was REALLY front and center this episode. I started thinking about it and those duck lips and was ready for her to go. So effected but it also kinda worked in moderation. I was hoping she took Pope with her. I love Hatosy but his one-note is getting old. I

I'm really interested in the behind scenes stuff. I'm gonna have to start following her on Twitter.

R357

I think J hated her & blamed her for casting his mom out. He blames her for not helping his mom & the situation that they would up in.

I couldn't disagree more strongly about Pope. I like all the boys but to me he is the most compelling.

[quote] I love Hatosy but his one-note is getting old.

I agree about his acting being one-note, but that could be because of the writing.

This is why I like the Angela character. She is the perfect person for him to play off of, and her character gives "Pope" much more room to show emotion, and lets Hatosy have more freedom in his acting.

I forgot to add that Smurf's death might also be beneficial for Pope.

Often times, a controlling mother doesn't give someone like Pope (who was co-dependent upon Smurf), the ability to be himself, to live his life, and to make his own decisions. I should know. I have a brother who is exactly like him.

So Smurf's death actually set Pope free. Maybe now he can be a leader. Maybe now he can find a girlfriend or wife. Maybe now he can life a normal life. Or maybe he'll head in a downward spiral and become even crazier.

Who knows?

Indeed, all of the boys are now free. That's why last week's episode was so interesting. Deran can live a "normal" life with Adrian. Although we know that's not going to happen since Deran murdered someone, and Adrian is on the run from the law.

And Craig is now a dad. Of all of the brothers, he has the best chance at a normal life. His hands are the "most clean," if there is such a thing with the Codys.

That's the fun twist that Smurf's death has generated.

Yes, at first I was Team Barkin, but Smurf’s death opens up the plot. However, I think just for a Codey coda. I wouldn’t want this to go on for years.

R379

Dear God! I hate Angela.. That bitch has to die & soon. I really don't see her as a conduit in allowing Pope more POV or more stability. He had more of that with Lena than this Angela disaster.

I would love to see Pope find some semblance of peace & a healthy love but that is so not Angela.

R360, listen to yourself: so, because Craig is a dad, he has a normal life? Typical hetero thinking. Are you a frau? Get lost — the DL is not for you.

Yeah, there's this theory that's been around forever R363. Sometimes when people have children, they begin to stabilize.

Denis Leart is back for the finale.

Leary

Please God, no. I hate Dennis Leary.

Maybe they'll kill off him, Frankie and Angela.

Get rid of that ugly bitch Frankie.

I cannot fucking STAND her!!! She serves absolutely no purpose on the show.

I can live with Angela, but no Dennis Leary. Please!

R369, she makes Craig look classier...

Season finale tonight.

I wonder what more they can squeeze out of the storyline?

Final chance to see Finn Cole’s glorious ass for another year. I still haven’t the deleted the episode from earlier in the season that had him fucking the rich girl.

I prefer Ben Robson's glorious ass.

Ben is a MAN. Finn is a boy.

Ben is tall, nicely toned, and he has a smooth, bulbous butt.

I wish I could find screencaps of Ben's butt, but during season one, they showed his naked ass quite a few times.

So what happened in the finale?

Damn, I got misty during that Pope/Deran scene. They're all just broken children now - brothers without a leader.

J is one brittle, mercenary little bitch, ready to take Smurf's money back from Pamela. Also, goodbye Adrian.

I bet that bartender will be Deran's new guy. Ugh. I LOVED Adrian.

At least he isn't dead, but writing Adrian out was stupid. He gives up his life and family for Deran, but Deran can't do the same. Pope wasn't going to do anything about him and even seem impressed that Adrian refused immunity. J wants a family enough that he would have got in line. They could have brought Adrian into the family and used Smurf's cop connections to get his case dropped, but no. He has to leave with nothing.

Now we get to suffer through Angela as an honorary Cody and she actually did rat out her own brother, but they defend her. Wtf?

Weren't Adrian's charges federal? I doubt they have any kind of pull to get those dropped. So if Adrian stayed, he was definitely going to prison. But now he's a fugitive for the rest of his life so...

I'm not surprised, but I'm disappointed. Ugh. The typical, depressing gay ending. The gay guy is guilt-tripped into abandoning the love of his life to be an uncle for Craig's bastard, a therapist for Pope's demons, and to steal shit for a dead dynasty. Come on! He had the longest, genuinely loving relationship, and he loses it. Craig has a baby and a drug-dealing girlfriend. Pope has the addict who doesn't comb her hair. Deran? A boyfriend who loved him since childhood and was willing to do 15 years in federal prison instead of snitch on him, but he's expendable. This season finale sucks.

They’d written themselves into a corner with Adrian. No good resolution, and quite a few worse ones than what they chose.

Adrian had the best line, though. Something like, "I've loved you my whole life, since we were kids. And knowing you has ruined my life."

Come on! You had to know Deran wasn't going to run off. The show (especially now) if about the boys. I was pleasantly surprised Adrian was allowed to leave. I was for sure Pope or J would take him out.

I thought Deran would leave for a while.

Last week's episode shoulda been the finale. Other than wrapping up Adrian's story, everything else would have been better as jumping off points for the new season. The fight at the end was pathetic...without Smurf the boys are reduced to street fights in defense of Angela in her cheap down coat ?! I cringe every time Angela appears on screen - she needs to go.

But Jake Weary had some stellar moments tonight...he's the best thing going for the series now. Hollywood take note, we need to see him in features.

Deran's character was predictable. Early on, he bought the bar hoping to get away from the family business. He ended up staying on. His response to Adrian was expected.

I think Smurf's death has already had a positive effect on Pope.

He didn't kill Adrian and told Deran he'd understand his choice. If Smurf was alive she'd order Pope to kill Adrian.

I just need for J to kill Angela.

Smurf did tell Pope to kill Adrian.

Angela just did J two enormous favors, bringing him the will and convincing Pope to let J stay in the family.

I liked this season as a whole and will be onboard next season. One nitpick for me is why J was whining that "Pope kicked me out". This guy owns multiple businesses, he's going to school, buying luxury apartments for a GF, he's able to get chicks at the snap of his fingers, knows how to plan a profitable heist, he can fence stolen merchandise and kills without impunity, but he's bent out of shape because the uncle that hates him wants him out of his grandmothers house. This guy could be in a penthouse with hot and cold running bimbos. That aspect of the show is kinda silly.

How did they kill her off and was it a soap opera end where she'll turn up later?

R391 Na, she won't show up again, she was shot in the head by J and the blood literally splatters the camera.

I was reading comments about this episode on another board and one thing that jumped out at me was a statement from a few people that "Pope loves Angela". I don't see that at all. I think he has history with her from their childhood and from Angela and Julia's friendship, and he is tolerating her for old times sake. To me, Pope is so numb from losing Cath, Baz, Lena that he's behind a brick wall and isn't ready to love anyone right now. Add finding out about his father and losing his mother in the same hour, this guy is toast.

I just never picked up on Pope expressing anything other than 'whatever' about Angela, even when they had sex. He did show some spark after finding her high but I took that as trying to save someone from the same fate as his twin.

Am I missing some great love affair in the AK universe?

Not to mention his religious girlfriend.

Did Pope and Julia's secret die with Smurf? I still believe he is J's father and wonder how that will be revealed.

Did Pope and Julia's secret die with Smurf? I still believe he is J's father and wonder how that will be revealed.

I don’t think Pope is J’s father. He would have some paternal feelings for him and there’s never been a hint of that. In fact, he does not even show the affection one would have for a twin’s child. His behavior suggests Baz was J’s father.

Pam will be the new Smurf. I had a feeling midway through the season that she would prove to be important.

R393

That's exactly how I see Pope. He's not in love with Angela at all.

R393 Pope sees Angela as a Julia surrogate and a second chance to make up for abandoning her and letting her die. Unfortunately Angela fucking sucks. I get the feeling Shawn Hatosy doesn't care for her either since he's always putting her down. He preferred the religious girl Amy and said she is the only one Pope ever loved.

R389

I know Smurff ordered Pope to kill J. My point was her death has had a positive affect on him already. He chose not to kill Adrian & he wished Deran well.

R390

I think it's because deep down under all the scars there's still a part of J that wants to connect to his uncles.

Ooops! I meant Smurff ordered Pope to kill Adrian.

Hatosy knows Angela is hated. Some critic interviewed him the week the episode sired that he directed. The critic went off about how much Angela is hated. Hatosy laughed.

You people should really make a distinction between the actress and the character.

Angela the character is horrible. She is a liar, she's manipulative, she's deceitful, and greedy.

Deschanel the actress is doing a fantastic job.

I'm not sure why you people (or people in general) are hating on her. I just don't see it.

Is it true Ellen Barkin didn't want to go? Was she trouble on set? This frees her up to work with Ryan Murphy again.

Barkin never worked with Ryan Murphy.

R404 Back at R71 I posted this:

The show stops for me when the Deschanel actress comes on, I thought she was supposed to be a good actress, didn’t she carry her own show for years? She seems on the spectrum.

And I stand by my statement, and think she actually became worse as the series progressed. How I like or don't like her character is colored by that, but I will say I have no problem with the Frankie actress or character, as some do, and I like both, especially how smart and cunning her character is and good at manipulating the guys.

[quote] I have no problem with the Frankie actress or character

She's fucking ugly. Her face looks BEAT with an iron skillet.

Not only that, but her character is superfluous. It adds ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the show.

She must be fucking one of the producers, otherwise, she wouldn't be there.

R408 Personally, I think you are most likely a racist troll. The lesbians disagree with you: "Dichen was even named as one of the hottest women on screen for 2009, by the lesbian media site AfterEllen.com." And so would her husband who looks like this:

I can't stand Angela because she's always lurking and asking inane questions. Whenever she appears onscreen, I cannot help but yell out "Lurker!!". Like this last episode, she steals/opens the family's mail and finds out about the wills, then when J walks into the bowling alley and Angela is sitting there waiting for him, ready to spit some more poison into his ear, trying to get herself deeper into the Cody's life and money.

I hope next season isn't a lot of "will Angela start using drugs again or not". That drama I will FF through.

[quote]Barkin never worked with Ryan Murphy.

Though he produced the Broadway show of "The Normal Heart where she won The Tony before he directed the movie version.

Who will they get to play Pam? That will be a great role. I assume her kids will also be in the picture.

R412, I vote for Alfre Woodard.

Welp... at least Adrian wasn't horribly murdered. That's an upside. But I'm still incredibly bummed that he's (probably) gone forever. It's to the point where I'm not even sure if I want to watch next season if it's just gonna have Deran's life be lonely and miserable while Craig and Pope get a semblance of a "regular" life (Craig with his kid and Pope with his crackwhore.) and Jay is running the empire. That would suck ass.

Sigh.

Joe Manganiello was offered the role as Deran's lover next season, but he is going to be very busy.

R415

Lord! Talk about some slash fiction if they paired up Joe & Jake. Adrian who?

Ellen Barkin was in The New Normal television sitcom created and mostly written by Ryan Murphy.

Are ya'll idiots?

R414 TNT sent out a survey after the finale asking for opinions on the season such as rating the characters, storylines, what you liked most, what you hated, etc. At the end you rate your interest in potential plots for next season like "Janine raising baby Pope and Julia" or "Craig and Jake get to know each other better" etc. There were at least two Deran options that I remember, "Deran trying to deal with Adrian being gone" and "Adrian returning to Oceanside to work things out with Deran" or something along those lines... So this might not be the last we have seen of Adrian.

Finally, after so many seasons, the Animal Kingdom's racial diversity profile is almost complete.

Whites - check

Latinos - check

Asian - check, well almost. Frankie is Tibetan/Nepalese/European

Black - check

Next season, we're working on a Filipino nanny for Craig. There's plenty of them in California.

R418

How do you get one of those survey's?

Survey's?

Oh, never mind.

[quote] Ellen Barkin was in The New Normal television sitcom created and mostly written by Ryan Murphy....Are ya'll idiots?

I knew it!

So what's the story? Did Barkin piss someone off?

R423

Have you not read the thread?

Maybe we won't see Pam next season - didn't J imply that the wills could "disappear" or that he could get some sleazy lawyer to rewrite them so that the sons would inherit everything?  If all that happens, there would be no need to get hyped up for this Pam to show up unless the mystery person who mailed the documents to the Cody home also was instructed to send Pam a notice.  Since we weren't shown if Pam got a letter, it's all a big IF until next season.

Did they even hint at how much assets Smurf had at the end?  After getting ripped off by Baz, letting J handle her business while she was in jail and we know that he dipped into that, it may not be some huge jackpot that the boys even feel worth fighting for.

Pam will have been sent a copy of the real will. The idea would be to claim that Smurf wrote a later will, and didn’t notify the attorney who sent out the actual will. So Pam will show up.

Oh, we will see Pam. From the became clear that Smurf was being killed off, I knew they’d have to bring in a new center.

One of the main things is a will is only going to pertain to the things that Smurf publicly and legally owned. I would think the majority of her wealth and property are not going to be on the up and up.

Who on earth is Pam?

R429, Pamela Sue Martin, the first and only legitimate Fallon Carrington.

^^^ And Nancy Drew, don’t forget Nancy!

For R429

If you watched the last episode of the season, there was a flashback with young Smurf visiting a black woman. That's Pam, who had been involved with Smurf's crew for a little while and ended up stealing from them and leaving. We saw Pam give Smurf some money to help with the new twins and Smurf is repaying her by leaving most of her estate to her.

Pam is a nickname, right? Her first name is Pamiqua.

It was also revealed that sometime after that time Pam gave Smurf that money, they crossed paths again and did some jobs together. I wonder if they became lovers at some point. I swear I remember a line or two that Smurf had hooked up with women.

Wishful casting---

CCH Pounder as Pamela

Angel Bassett needs to leave that god awful 911 for this

[quote] CCH Pounder as Pamela

GOD NO!!

R437

What's wrong with Pounder? She's under talented & can play a boss ass bitch.

Khandi Alexander would make a good Pamela

Sonja Sohn would have made a good Pamela as well except she was recently arrested for selling drugs & being strung out. That shocked the hell out of me because she is so talented. I guess that explains why her character was sudden;y written out of The Chi.

Khandi is also on my list

[quote]Have you not read the thread?

No, I haven't since I haven't watched a frame of the show and would have no idea what was being talked about. I heard she didn't want to go, so it's a simple question, did she piss someone off?

R441

Long story short- she was very difficult. She alienated the cast & crew. She threw something at one of her co-stars but it hit a crew member. Just a Grade A cunt.

R441, in other words what R442 is trying to say is that at her age and with her status: Ellen Barkin is a major icon, they were trying to short-change her and she told them to go take a hike.

R443

Bullshit. Bad behavior shouldn't be tolerated just because you've had a long career. Barkin was fired because of her bad behavior.

Ellen Barkin IS the new Faye Dunaway!

Agreed, R444. When I hear that a popular or once-popular actor is acting out, I think insecurity, not power. The whole Mariah Carey, Barbra Streisand, and Celine Dion diva fits (don't look at me; I demand an all-white greenroom, etc.) screams raging narcissism mixed with raging insecurity. Think Donald Trump. Now I guess we can add Barkin to that list. You've got a job on a TV series that has a 60+ woman do more than the typical acting and that's still not enough? Ellen Barkin isn't going to get too many more chances. She was never as big as Dunaway, another tedious diva.

I’ve missed a lot of episodes, so who is currently Deran’s gay lover?

[quote] who is currently Deran’s gay lover?

Still Adrian.

But Deran sent Adrian away to Indonesia, because he is afraid that J or Pope will kill him.

Not sure what will happen next season, if Deran finds a new boyfriend. Or not.

The show seems to have neutered his relationship.

I am seriously intrigued by how BAD Ellen Barkin may have behaved behind the scenes.

I did not accept her as Smurf until Season 2 (as the Australian film and Jacki Weaver were SUPERIOR) but I really grew to admire Barkin and really grew to enjoy this show.

That John Wells interview was cold and said EVERYTHING.

Not one of her cast mates tweeted or commented on her final episode with the exception of Ben Robson (and with him being British, I figured he would be the one to get along best with Barkin and her personality) And even he just sent a emoji to which Ellen replied "Thank you Ben"...

And the only other comment is from Jake Weary from 2017- and to me this confirms everything. Especially the "Its risky"..

+Weary says the Bronx-born Barkin lives up to her reputation as a tough customer. “She’s kind of like my mom in that she doesn’t take any s–t from anybody,” he says. “She doesn’t feel like she has to edit herself. It’s risky. She’s a hard worker. You cannot slip with her. She’ll let you know.”+

She probably only worked 2-3 days a week, tops- and you would think that show in particular would be a kick ass good time to shoot.

And her tweets about ageism, accusing the show of illegally fucking with her Twitter posts, ect- Damn.

Still love her. And wish Smurf could continue on- its was such a major dynamic on the show.

And that chick from Bones SUCKS. If this the new Smurf I will have to pass.

The new Smurf will doubtless be Pam

I have been thinking about that. How about Angela Bassett? THAT I might consider.

Angela is on that shitty 911. Imagine she’s committed to that.

I BINGED this show throughout August and it GETS IN YOUR HEAD.

I bawled when Smurf SPOILER......... SPOILER!!!!!!!!!!

died...

She was a sociopathic SICK woman, and I bawled....

Mary. I know.

I really cannot fathom this show without that weird dynamic, and let's be real- the female characters on this show (other than Smurf) have BEEN HORRIBLE!!!!!! I blame the writers.

And I despise -despise- this Dechanel bitch. And her sister too. FUCK them

[quote]I'm not sure why you people (or people in general) are hating on her. I just don't see it.

This drives me CRAZY. Not only do you not get that the world doesn’t revolve around your opinion BUT you ALSO have to be a condescending twat about it. I actually like the character and Deschanel but a blind person can see how polarizing she is.

[quote]Angela on that the shitty 911 show. Imagine she’s committed to that.

I don’t get it, I love 9-1-1. It’s a fun, intense show, especially with that hottie Oliver Stark who plays Buck.

[quote]I don’t get it, I love 9-1-1.

We like what we like. But 9-1-1 is unquestionably a waste of Angela Bassett's talents (and Peter Krause's and Aisha Hinds').

Pam will be Pam Grier, kicking ass all over the place.

Can you imagine Jackie Brown era Pam Grier playing Pam??

My god, that would be awesome.

Great show. Fascinating character, but poor J. He keeps hooking up with these awful messed up cold women.

R459 you don't think Jay is an awful messed up cold man? he's a little psychopath.

Is Deran's hair a wig? It just gets dirtier and nastier looking every episode.

I'm not a bump bitch, btw. I just binged season 4.

They had started shooting the next season when lockdown hit. They’ll probably have to reshoot all the stuff they did with young Smurf because it was with the child actors who will probably have gone through growth spurts in the interim. Also, Leila George is traveling the world with Sean Penn battling COVID, so they both might die.

I was wondering if this was going to get a Covid cancellation. Apparently, they suspended production for a couple of months but they're continuing now.

I loved this show! Totally raw and gritty. I've read that season 5 will be shown next year. Great to hear they are back filming R463.

I'm going to miss Ellen Barkin though. She was a right cunt and completely fascinating.

I’m confused, did season 5 just start, because it seems like a new episode, but everything says it only starts on July 11?