Black Swan

It was supposed to be of a girl growing into a woman. The mom still treats her like a little kid but she is trying to grow up, emotionally/sexually.

OP, many critics did not Mila was much better than Natalie. Personally, I liked Black Swan much better the first time around....when it was called "Repulsion".

that should say "did note".

Growing into a woman? Nina wasn't a preteen, she was in her fucking 20s.

It's based on perfect blue, down to camera angles.

No, it was patterned after Diabolique.

The mother was way too codependent on the daughter. It would not be a surprise if Nina had been molested at some point by this crazy bitch.

Mila Kunis got the majority of the Supporting Actress nominations for that film (BFCA, SAG, Golden Globe), but I thought Barbara Hershey’s performance as the mother was far more interesting. She was memorable and scary and her final close-up in the audience watching Nina on stage was beautifully played.

Occult analysis

The noise that Barbara Hershey makes when her character gets a door slammed on her hand is unintentionally funny. The entire theater was laughing out loud at her monkey screeching.

I didn't get that vibe at all OP. I just assumed the mother was a garden-variety crazy stage mom type who was vicariously living through her kid.

Yeah, maybe. But when nina masturbates in front of her mom, yuck!

R12, don't forget when she eats her out.

I really do love this movie. It's such trash, but it's taken so seriously which is how camp is born. Has this become a camp classic yet, because I think it's about time?

R7 Read this?

The campiest shit is Vincent Cassel's performance.

"Would you fuck that girl?"

Christ, you guys are idiots.

Nina didn't masturbate in front of her mom and it was Mila Kunis' character that ate her out.

I really hated this movie - and it was all I could do at times to keep from laughing out loud in the theater.

Perhaps that's what makes it camp.

The mom was overprotective and subtly trying to prevent her daughter from exceeding her own ballet career. I think the cake thing was a way to get her to wind up eating a whole lot more than a dollop of cake and "get her fat" (at least the ballet world's version of fat).

Tead the 2 analyses posted in there thread. You guys are way off.

She was, indeed, masturbating in front of her mother. The mother was asleep and Nina didn't see her until she was almost ready to blow.

I'm pretty sure the poster who mentioned the mother eating Nina out was joking. Calm down.

I have a cat named Nina. She's a very petite girl. She's not a ballet dancer, but she does over to leap through the air.

She loves cream cheese frosting and vanilla ice cream, but passes on the Red Velvet cake.

Should I be concerned?

This pretentious movie was a waste of 2 hours and had hopes of being deep, a high school student could have written this silly thing there is absolutely nothing to understand, dissect or talk about. Unless you all are dissecting those marvel and star wars movies now too.

^^^ "She does LOVE to leap through the air."

Damn you, spell check. Damn you !

The mother didn't have a career. She was still in the corps and pushing 30. How did they afford that apartment in NY? Was Nina the only one bringing in a salary?

When Mila finished "pleasuring" Natalie, she said "sweet girl." Exactly like the mother does. There is a definite incest vibe there.

And sorry, but no woman is "sweet" tasting down there. It's not possible.

R26 Not true. I knew a woman who definitely was sweet down there.

Nina imagines the whole scene with Mila. It was her mind transforming into the Black Swan.

The Black wings on Mila’s back imply this.

There is an incest vibe between the mother and Nina. She imagines her mother in bed when she climaxes.

Mila really seemed to be going for it. When she wraps her arms around Natalie's thighs, wow!

R23, honey, Black Swan is great. Now come give your mother a hug...

LOVE this film! And Barbara Hershey was amazing as the crazy bitch mother and should have gotten an Oscar nomination.

The movie always was pretentious crap.

- Natalie Portman's dance double.

It’s true R32, Natalie Portman was not at all believable as a prima ballerina.

I hated that film and walked out before it was over.

Was Nina having an incestuous relationship with her mother?

It’s implied that Nina was sexually abused by her mother, yes R35

Fabulous performances from the women, including Winona Ryders small role. The club scene was awesome on the big screen.

I love this film. It’s gripping, and beautifully crafted.

Now MOTHER (2017), on the other hand...

I also loved this movie. It’s about descending into madness to perfect one’s craft.

I don’t remember the mother-daughter dynamic being incestuous so much as codependent.

I've been saying it will be a camp classic for years now.

It does get hammy at the end but it kind of works. Seems self-aware and intentional.

Winona was so camp in this. Why haven't they put her in a trashy soap yet?

The lezzie scene was so forced and silly.

I adore this film. Saw it three times in theaters. Libatique's work is so visually addictive. I loved the way the camera moved.

People calling it pretentious are taking the film more seriously than Aronofsky did. You can tell from the moment it starts that he's having fun with the material. The campy overtones, the schlocky undertones... it's all intentional and used perfectly to execute the vision. From the outset he stated that he wanted to make a were-swan movie, which is an absurd idea in and of itself, but it fucking works. It's one of Natalie Portman's few exceptional performances. I'm glad Aronofsky got that out of her.

The masturbation scene's great!

LOL I can hear Clint Mansell's score.

Um, no. The masturbation scene is not great. Much like the dumb and out of place lesbian scene, it is gratuitous and desperate. Absolutely no one masturbates like that. What was this idiot bitch mounting? The air? The director just wanted to make sure that we all see Natalie's ass pumping up and down because she has (rolls eyes) suuuch a sexy ass. It was laughable.

And the stupid lesbian sex scene. Yes, I'm sure women just jump into it like that. No chance for Natalie to go freshen her sweaty and discharge loaded vagina. Just pull the stained panties off and dive right in to a musky vulva littered with toilet paper pieces and feces. Why is this a thing in movies? Like because people are hot, they never worry about these things?

[quote]What was this idiot bitch mounting?

Her finger.

[quote]And the stupid lesbian sex scene.

You know it didn't happen right? That the sequence was a fantasy?

It’s a GREAT song!

R48. that is a stupid point. Nina was not aware it wasn't real.

The entire movie isn't real. But here we are discussing.

Winona Ryder as washed-up ballerina was perfect casting. Natalie Portman really is like a younger version (current ballerina) of Ryder.

R50 Nina was also on drugs. She wasn't in her right mind to make decisions like that. Regardless, it's such a silly nitpick in the grand scheme of things. I respect that it bothers you though...

Did the girls make love because they wanted to? Or did Nina do it to try to become the black swan?

Imma call Sarah Mearns to tell her to fuck Tiler Peck so she can become a better dancer. Because she is horrid.

The girls never made love, but Nina fantasized about it to unlock that potential within her, yes.

.....

I wouldn't read too much into it. It's pretty upfront and surreal at moments.

The crazy mom was sexually abusing Nina, I thought everyone knew that.

I always laugh when TOEMAZZ is aggro whispering to Natalie to OPEN IT! OPEN YOUR MOUTH!!! As his whole hand covers and lifts her pelvis.

R59 Physically, mentally and emotionally abuse, yes.. Haven't seen it in a while so may have missed the incestuous stuff mentioned.

Nothing about this movie is even close to real ballet world.

You fucking whore!

How old was Ryder supposed to be?

Casting someone that old as a ballerina was reminiscent of when they cast Anne Bancroft as a working ballerina in The Turning Point. It was obvious nether was believable in those roles.

[quote]And the stupid lesbian sex scene. Yes, I'm sure women just jump into it like that. No chance for Natalie to go freshen her sweaty and discharge loaded vagina. Just pull the stained panties off and dive right in to a musky vulva littered with toilet paper pieces and feces. Why is this a thing in movies? Like because people are hot, they never worry about these things?

R47. Poor dear, you are confused. Sex with the average woman is in no way similar to your $5 hookups with stinking, drug addled, homeless men.

R64 wasn't the whole point of Ryder's character? That she was old and washed-up?

And FYI, Maya Plisetskaya danced well into her 60's. Not saying that's the norm or even likely, but it's within the realm of possibility.

[Quote] wasn't the whole point of Ryder's character? That she was old and washed-up?

It's not like they were subtle about it in the movie.

Subtlety was never the film's intention.

It really is one of the closest things to a modern camp classic we have. That and Jennifer's Body, but you'd have to be a complete idiot to not know that the filmmakers of that were in on the joke and intentionally going for camp. Oh, and maybe August: Osage County.

[Quote] That and Jennifer's Body

Jennifer's Body is awesome. I wish it had done better at the box office.

Jennifer's Body has developed a sizable cult following in the past decade since its release, which pleases me greatly. 30 years from now, one one will be talking about Avatar or Transformers 3, but they'll be talking about Jennifer's Body. In some ways, that's even better than being a big box office hit.

R70, god, Megan Fox really had a lot of plastic surgery at a young age. She already looks like a wax figure there.

Black Swan really is a derivative combination of Perfect Blue, Repulsion and Showgirls. The fact that it is not in the slightest bit original makes the film harder for me to enjoy as camp.

R23 that’s the best analysis of the film that I’ve seen on this forum

R71 Jesus, I can't believe it's been a decade already but you do make a good point.

Maya at 61.....

The legendary Ida Nevasayneva.......

Twyla Tharp went on for quite a while.

I'm still hangin in there.

Did she get wonk-eye from all the surgeries and botox and fillers and shit she's been doing to her face?

What's with the dumb eye patch? Is she a pirate queen this year?

My response to R79 image was a heartfelt sympathetic "aaw"

Portman has a bubble-like, fat ass, and is short. She is built to be a stripper, not a ballerina.

Stripper Ass.

Fat, bubble buns. Like a stripper's. Even in slacks.

Overrated film. Overrated director.

The performances (save Rider’s, which was awful per usual) kept this from being camp for me. And to whoever said that there was nothing to dissect about this film—which is being debated here and is about parent-child relationships, becoming an adult, art, and sex—is silly.

Ugh, Natalie's bubble ass troll has found this thread.

R86, you're right that there's things to debate about the film, but it's not a great one by any means. The issues it covers have been done so many times before.

Damn, Natalie has a nice ass.

Stripper Ass, R89. Not Ballerina Ass.

She dieted her ass off for Black Swan. I'm not understanding how she became skeletal but still held on to her ass.

There's long been whispers that she has ass injections/implants. When you look at the way her ass always looks plump even after she reportedly (and otherwise appears to have) lost 20+ pounds, it begins to seem more likely. Even when she weighs nothing, there's that fatty ass.

I thought that Natalie was completely crazy and the weirdness from Barbara Hersey was all her perception. Which is why when Barbara was like “what happened to my girl?” She was actually expressing frustration and sadness at having a delusional child

The most pretentious shitshow I have ever seen, only Tree Of Life was worse. The only good thing the movie did was proving that Portman can't act and is a disgusting liar.

Someone who liked the movie, please convince me why I am wrong about it. I thought it was not good, through and through. I don’t remember what I thought of the acting while I was watching it (I always think Kunis is a terrible actor because of the way she speaks, which I now understand to be a result of her being a non-native speaker.), but both the plot and the psychological dimension of it I thought were terrible. Just, like, stupid and poorly written. Why am I wrong?

Just had a re-watch of this movie. It's pretty obvious that there is something unnatural about the mother-daughter relationship. You can see it when the mother hugs Nina, her eyes open wide as if something evil lurks. Then when she asks Nina if she's "ready for me", the woman is wearing a black lacy negligee. There's also the scene where she's helping Nina undress after the gala. She's caressing Nina all over with a look of lust in her eyes when she says, "He probably wanted you all to himself (Tomas). I don't blame him." And that creepy way she makes Nina lick frosting off her finger.

That being said I cannot fathom how Natalie Portman, stripper ass or no, won the Oscar.

I fucking love this movie man, love the ending especially.

After all that suffering in order to get "perfect", she ends up only doing one show? This is one dumb puta. Because she stabbed herself, now Lily is going to take her place and become the star.

I genuinely loved it. It was taking itself so seriously, yet its story line was maybe one rung above something like Showgirls or Valley of the Dolls. I kinda loved that about it. When filmmakers take trashy stories seriously, it always leads to really great, well made camp events.

[quote]r95 Someone who liked the movie, please convince me why I am wrong about it.

Why?

Go ahead and like/dislike what you like/dislike.

I imagine they were issuing a challenge. Perhaps wanting to change their mind.

I'm sorry, miss, but with all due respect, I've got problems of my own.

Is she still married to that Millipied guy?

A wannabe film. It wants to be a cult classic. Underwhelming.

Just the one time was sufficient, OP. Life is quite short.

Ballerinas often have bubble butts so Portman was good casting.

I thought that Black Swan was a decently compelling film...but Arronofsky's The Wrestler is arguably better, while containing many of the same thematic elements.

[quote]The mother didn't have a career. She was still in the corps and pushing 30. How did they afford that apartment in NY? Was Nina the only one bringing in a salary?

The loony mother probably had some side scam to get money.

I don't care what anybody says, I still think it's brilliant. The message isn't special, but the technical aspects are marvelous, and you can't deny that. I've never seen ballet be shot in such a terrifying, horrific way. He made it look inhuman.

It's odd that Portman won the Oscar considering that she was outacted by Kunis and Ryder, of all people.

one of the best movies about "narcissistic personality disorder" and its effects on family systems.

R110 Winona did deliver an unexpectedly stunning performance. Chills.

A combo of "intrusive parenting" and vicarious living.

The mother daughter incest is fucking repugnant.

And Nina saying she's going to move out. On a soloist salary? NO

Campy pretentious bullshit

Aronovsky's ass-2-ass was much better

What's ass to ass got to do with anything?

R115 I've always been curious how they pulled that scene off. If you look close it actually does look like there's a dildo between them

R116 EVERYTHING!

[quote]Just had a re-watch of this movie. It's pretty obvious that there is something unnatural about the mother-daughter relationship. You can see it when the mother hugs Nina, her eyes open wide as if something evil lurks. Then when she asks Nina if she's "ready for me", the woman is wearing a black lacy negligee. There's also the scene where she's helping Nina undress after the gala. She's caressing Nina all over with a look of lust in her eyes when she says, "He probably wanted you all to himself (Tomas). I don't blame him." And that creepy way she makes Nina lick frosting off her finger.

Barbara Hershey was great at playing creepy in this movie. I remember sometime after I first watched Black Swan, I was flipping channels on cable and came across some other Barbara Hershey movie and I changed it right away because I was still creeped out by Black Swan.

> I've always been curious how they pulled that scene off. If you look close it actually does look like there's a dildo between them

Presumably when it cuts to that shot, it's no longer Jennifer Connelly, but actual porn actresses who were willing to do that scene for real.

I've never seen it myself but when it came out I got the impression that it was a low camp classic in the tradition of Showgirls.

The eating out scene is so fucking gratuitous and false.

I love how actual dancers were ridiculing Natalie for her stiff neck.

I didn't see any mother-daughter sexual undertones whatsoever, it was more the controlling, babying mother dynamic at play.

I think the sexual undertones come from the scene where she's masturbating in her room and then her mom's just fucking sitting there sleeping. I don't think that Darren's implying that they have some torrid sexual past, but that every aspect of Nina's personal life is, in some ways, infiltrated by her mother, including her sexual awakening.

Black Swan tries to be a cult film. No, that's not how it happens. That's why it makes no sense.

all through the film I kept on hearing Meg Griffin.

[QUOTE]Black Swan tries to be a cult film.

Hahahahah, in what way does it [italic]try[/italic] to be a cult film?

Yeah and it tries too hard r127.

In what way?

The scene where Nina and Lily are going ass to ass while the mom watches.

[quote]Winona was so camp in this. Why haven't they put her in a trashy soap yet?

That will probably happen after Stranger Things ends.

Arguably, Stranger Things is the trashy soap. She and Hopper's sexual frustration throughout season 3 was so goofy that it felt soapish.

It aims to be trashy, soap, r131 and camp. Pathetic.

I always crack up when Mila's character asks Natalie if she was good in her wet dream.

I love Mila in Black Swan. It's like she's in a different movie. Ugh, such perfect casting.

They were both so fucking thin in this movie.

How much would they be paid? As dancers? Enough to afford a NYC apartment?