Margot Fonteyn Centenary - Any balletonmans out there?

She was no Maria Tallchief.

R1 I trust you are being ironic. First, they were completely different types, and second, Tallchief, while a very strong dancer, lacked Fonteyn's refinement. Mind, I admired both dancers. But what I remember about Tallchief, who had plenty of temperament, said about the New York City Ballet's strict insistence of listing everyone alphabetically in the company programme, regardless of rank. Tallchief is said to thave stated, "I don't mind being listed alphabetically, but I'm damned if I'll be treated alphabetically. NYCB was intent on not fostering a "star system" in its ranks. But I loved the quote.

balletomane n. An ardent admirer of the ballet. n. a ballet enthusiast. n. An enthusiastic ballet fan

I saw her dance in Canada shortly before her retirement, and she had the most precise and graceful port de bras. I also saw Misha fly across the stage a few nights before he defected. What a revelation he was. Another favourite at the time was Suzanne Farrell. The best seats in the house were 5.00 and for opera a whopping 7.50.

balletomane n. An ardent admirer of the ballet. n. a ballet enthusiast. n. An enthusiastic ballet fan —Oh dear

Oh dear yourself, we are only enthusiastic if they're packing

Mr. B said her pointes were like spatulas! And she could not master Ballet Imperial when B mounted it on the Royal in the early 50s. Moira Shearer at least tried.

R6 - Fontehn's feet were soft, I quite agree, brillianto footwork was not her her strong, er, pointe. She was a lyrical-dramatic dancer. She had a quality of movement and line that most of Mr B's forgettable automatons with much better feet couldn't hope to replicate. And when it comes to port de bras, most of Mr B's dancers were woefully lacking. That said, it is interesting that Princess Aurora, one of the most technicallly difficulty of all principal roles, became one of Fonteyn's signature roles.

I did hope this thread wouldn't deteriorate into something along the lines of the Kate v. Meghan threads pitting the memory of one fine dancer against another, especially as they are so varied and so many different types. Can we please try to avoid that and celebrate this art and its many different types of artists?

I saw Fonteyn in the 1950s in Les Sylphide, and the sheer musicality of her movement was quietly breathtaking.. When, in her early variation, she turned her back and raised her arms to call the Sylphides, just that gesture from the back in its poignancy reached the very back of the house (where I was).

I think Ashton said that in becoming a ballet dancer, the stage lose a great actress, and it took awhile for Fonteyn and Ashton to come to an understanding.

Sorry for all the typose above, will not bother to correct.

R7 - also the OP.

Unfortunately, when I saw her, she was way, way past her prime. The last time I saw her, it was so bad I walked out. I noticed that some else had also walked out. It was Peter Martins. I am sorry I did not get a chance to see her in her prime.

R9 - I was very fortunate to see her at the height of her powers - I also saw a bit of her in the early 1960s when she began dancing with Nureyev, but past that I simply wouldn't go any longer, preferring to remember her as she was. I believe huge medical expenses for her husband's care were her major reason for going on so long past her prime.. One very strong recollection I have of Fonteyn was not as Sleeping Beauty, but as Cinderella, in which I thought her far better. Her dance with the broom alone in the kitchen was so beautifully danced and so touching. There is a DVD available of Antionette Sibley in the role and she does beautifully as well but just falls short of the pecuiliar poignancy that infused all of Fonteyn's movements.

Forgettable automatons? Respectfully I ask you what the fuck are you talking about? Those who saw Balanchine dancers when he was alive will never forget them. The most stupid comment ever about ballet.

If you simply don't like Balanchine that's one thing but to call Tallchief, Farrell, McBride, Kent and Ashley and others forgettable automatons is concerning dance pure idiocy.

And watch the doc on Tanny. Forgettable. Ok.

[quote] I did hope this thread wouldn't deteriorate...

If you saw Fonteyn dancing in the 1950's, you are now at least 80 years old. Surely you must know at this point in your seniority that hope was not going to be realized. Not on a gay site in a discussion about Margot Fonteyn.

You would have to go back as far as Karsavina to get acquiesence and a shrug.

The Guardian photos.

Tanny = Tanaquil LeClercq?

You were the one to immediately start the deterioration with your comment about Balanchine ballerinas.How ironic. I never saw Fonteyn or Tallchief or Tanny. All before my time. But I have seen them on film. All very different and all wonderful.

I have the DVD of the television hour of excerpts of TSB with Fonteyn. I watch it a lot. And there is a DVD of her Cinderella which I haven't seen yet but now after the other poster's comment I'm looking forward to it. Also what I've seen of the R&J looks tremendous.

Those of you who have any interest in ballet you must see the PBS documentary on Tanaquil LeClerq. All the praise heaped on her for her magic during her career seems justified. And realize what you are seeing is only a small part of the energy you felt if you were there. I've seen it with the great dancers I've seen on stage on video. I'm glad they were filmed but on stage they were a force of nature.

Another thing. Beaton saw and photographed many of the great dancers throughout the early to mid 20th century and found reasons to criticize everyone including 'Mrs Hookam's daughter' the mean queen- and he found Farrell tremendous.

I didn't start it, I responded to the poster who said Fonteyn was no Maria Tallchief - if you care to look back. It merited a response and it got one.

After which I added a desire not to pit such different artists against each other. But I didn't start it, R1 did. And I'm hardly the first to point out that Mr B's dancers lacked certain elements of classical training, particularly in ports de bras.

R13 - I was quite young at the time but yes, I am an elder and have made no secret of it on this or any of the other threads on which I participate. Britain and London were very different places then. And there are other dancers I was privileged to see whilst both they and I were young - Fracci, Bruhn, Sibley, and then later generations who are also now retired. The passage of time does bring one up short . . .

Which is why I opened this thread on Fonteyn's centenary.

R11 I should have made that clear that the "automatons" comment referred more to the company's standard of training in certain respects and I admired Tallchief and Farrell, to a lesser extent McBride and Kent, and agree completely with the poster above re Tanaquil Le Clerq. But overall, I don't think it's unfair to observe that the training at NYCB seemed either to ignore or have no use for standards in certain areas that in my opinion was unfortunate. And, after reading Gelsey Kirkland's autobiography, "Dancing on my Grave", about what the training did to her and to other dancers, I don't think the observation is unshared.

The NYCB's overall "look" lacked something in warmth, line, and classicism, and I will stand by that.

Oh, my, my. It makes no difference who did it first. You're doing a fine job throwing shit all on your own. Brava, but it is unnecessary.

It pains me to agree with you about the stylistic differences between Balanchine and those who went before him. I, too, am an eldergay and most of my ballet teachers were nearing retirement while I was being trained. I almost skipped a generation in my training. My favorite teacher was trained at R.A.D. during the early 1940's. The style she taught was fluid, elegant, and beautifully balanced. Balanchine selected the longest, leanest, most elongated dancers he could find, eventually changing the required silhouette of what is required in a dancer. He further elongated the positions and the port de bras. I don't find any of it an improvement over what has been all but lost. And I HATE those fucking awful Balanchine cocked wrists. Feh!

A high 5th position of the arms in the R.A.D. style or in Balanchine's style? R.A.D. for me. Every time. That goes for the rest of the style, too.

Then it is a matter of taste. You seem to like a purer classical style. But automaton in terms of dancers is a pretty heavy insult. Like they are going through the same robotic motions all the time. I find Balanchine's ballets very emotionally powerful. There were many nights when I was overwhelmed. I know he was not to everyone's taste. But there are passionate opera lovers who don't like Callas.

I admit I stopped going to see Mr B's ballets when his dancers retired. Now they are nothing but steps which he predicted. You may consider that a failing of his work and I might have said the same thing had I not seen his dancers dance them. To have seen Martins and Farrell on stage on Chaconne was one of the greatest not only dance but theatrical experiences one could have. With today's dancers it would be watchable. For me.

Kirkland a wonderful dancer had many demons unfortunately so everything she says has to be taken with a grain of salt.

sorry 'unwatchable'

Of course that development is not a failure of the choreography. If it worked once, it can work again. Perhaps the coaches are not up to the job. Perhaps the cost is simply too high and is not worth doing. Balanchine's work could be deeply affecting, but he demanded a lot. NYCB dancers have lots of career ending injuries.

R21 - It is true, my taste does run to a purer classical style. That does not mean I cannot admire dancers like Farrell. But I am not incapable of enjoying dancers (and that includes Fonteyn) whose unique characteristics, say, a particularly beautiful quality of movement. I very much admired Carla Fracci in the roles she was suited for and justly famous for, but I wouldn't call her a classicist on the order of Tallchief. Fracci technically was better than I think she was given credit for, but in the end, technique, as the last Erik Bruhn said in his memoir, is something to get you someplace not an end in itself (paraphrasing here). I suspect many musicians would say the same. That said, different companies do have different looks, and I never really enjoyed the NYCB in its 1970s onward "look".

^*the LATE Erik Bruhn

R24

Speaking of Tanny. Never saw her dance, but used to see her in the State Theater all the time in her wheelchair at the end of Row R, House Left, in the Orchestra. First time I saw her in early 80s, she was applauding and her arms were like giant swan wings. Never saw anything so theatrical in my life. She always looked sad and haunted. Her legs and feet were lifeless and swollen somewhat and her hair was overbleached, But that French nose of hers ("un nez pointu") was something else. Went to her funeral and the pall bearers hoisted the casket aloft just like the dead girl at the end of La Valse. People were crying in their pews as the casket passed. Farrell took communion wearing a red poncho.

R26 - I read an interview with her - I believe she was in Denmark with the company when the virus hit her, she tried to get out of bed one morning and fell to the floor. When asked when she realised that she was permanently paralysed, she answered, "As soon as I tried to get up and couldn't" or words to that effect. It would have been horrible for anyone, but one can imagine for a great dancer at the height of her powers. It is interesting that nevertheless, she outlived Balanchine.

I saw Tanny as well in her wheelchair at an ABT performance and I also could not help but notice her dead weight swollen legs and ankles. Having up till then only seen her in those impossibly elegant photos it was so sad.

[R26] - Interview your read was in NY TIMES on November 22, 1998. Holly Brubach was the journalist/interviewer and Tanny's friend of 17 years. Tanny was 69 at this time and getting ready to be honored in a few days by City Ballet on its 50th anniversary. She never agreed to being photographed and being interviewed and rejected all offers to tell her story. However, she made one exception to be interviewed in the book, Striking A Balance, Dancers Talk About Dancing by Barbara Newman. Here's the paragraph in the Brubach article about walking up in Copenhapen and not being able to walk. I think she and Balanchine were staying at the Hotel d'Angleterre. I heard a version that he carried her to Blegdems Hospital (which has been demolished). Apparently polio wasn't diagnosed immediately. Also, heard that he came down with a mild version of a paralysis, but for the life of me can't find my source. That evening she danced 'Bourree Fantasque,' as scheduled, but switched movements with Diana Adams. 'I did the second,' Le Clercq says, 'which was slower and, I thought, easier than to crash in with the fan and do the fast stuff. Then I went back to the hotel, and I still wasn't feeling well, but I was still walking.' She woke up Monday morning no better. 'And then it just happened,' she recalls. 'The legs went.' She was seated, and she couldn't get up. 'Thighs wouldn't work.' A doctor was summoned, and she left the hotel on a stretcher.