Men 32% more uncomfortable around women in the workplace since #metoo cancellations

Men no longer feel comfortable around women? This will result in an increase in homosexuality behavior between men.

Oh for fuck sake, talk about blowing this out of proportion. How about not being lecherous assholes and keep your dick out of the workplace environment?

It's not THAT hard.

Good. Maybe they will learn their lesson and stop harassing us.

R2 because in admist the real predators getting outed, there's been accusations of perfectly innocent behaviour being called predatory. It makes men nervous around women. Even gay men (speaking from personal experience).

So women believe in guilty until proven innocent and are fine with Twitter "cancellations" that have real world impact? Women are cool with that?

Have men ever been comfortable with women in the workplace, in general, or mentoring/promoting them? Have men ever been comfortable around women, in general? Hell, were men comfortable even giving women the right to vote?

Grow or die . . .

R6 well, yes, according to the poll they were 32% more comfortable mentoring and socializing with them last year.

Feminists want men to help boost their careers but also they want to be able to get men fired at the drop of a hat based on their word alone. It's always a power play.

I sure as shit won't do it -- and I'm gay. Doesn't stop the games.

My attitude is there are plenty of men who will be happy to help the ladies, if nothing else just to have them around to look at. So I am the one who helps and promotes men. But that part was brewing long before the metoo bullshit came along, I must admit. Women loved my help and then resented it.

These men could leave the current workplace until they feel more comfortable with women.

Perhaps they need a time out?

I don't really have any sympathy for those men. I've been a manager for quite a while and I've never had a problem with anyone reporting to me, male and female alike. If they're not comfortable, that says far more about them than it does about the people reporting to them. If you know what you're doing, if you treat people with respect, if you earn the trust of the people reporting to you (all of which are the hallmarks of a good manager), you'll never have a problem.

One key point from that article:

[quote]Mentoring often includes dinner or drinks outside of working hours.

Personally, I mentor people during my working hours. That's part of my job. I don't meet anyone for "drinks" outside of working hours and if I'm mentoring someone and engaging in professional activities, then drinks are not indicated, anyway.

R12 me too. There are no friends at work.

[quote]...because in admist the real predators getting outed, there's been accusations of perfectly innocent behaviour being called predatory.

The problem is that men no longer get the exclusive right to determine what constitutes "perfectly innocent behavior" and are either very slow or unwilling to evolve to that fact.

Never poke the payroll.

I totally get this. I'm super gay, but no more closed door meetings with women. Only group lunches. And the annual Christmas party is now a Christmas lunch catered by a sandwich shop. I'm not going to put the company or my guys into a situation that will cause them problems.

More proof that straight men are pigs who hate women

[quote]I'm not going to put the company or my guys into a situation that will cause them problems.

Do you even realize how you sound? "Your guys"? You do realize that what you've been doing in the past was putting "your girls" (if you even hire any) in situations that caused them problems and you didn't give a shit about it. You are so fucking typical it's laughable.

These are straight male problems. No one will ever get away with accusing me of sexually abusing a woman. Lol

R19 = the kweeniest kween who was ever kweened

R18 you seem to trust women and hate men. Have you had counseling?

I've heard anonymous commentary from straight men about this on other forums and it's reinforced something I've always suspected:

Straight men are deeply uncomfortable with having to consider other people's feelings.

R16 is super gay Mike Pence.

can't force men to mentor people that might destroy their careers. it's simply leading to an actual ceiling due to personal consequences being possible, where before there wasn't shit

The company can force men to mentor whoever they want them to if the men want to continue to have a career. This is right wing hateful, divisive trolling that will be everywhere between now and the election. FF and move on.

Women 100% more uncomfortable around men, since their abortionist gets sent to prison and their rapists get sent home. Fixed your reality, OP

"Straight men are deeply uncomfortable with having to consider other people's feelings."

Wow - that's profound and true. That needs to be said more often. I would qualify and say 'many straight men' - not all though.

I'd say fuck them. Over the last three decades I have personally witnesses much unfair treatment of women in the workplace which most straight men are and we're aware of. The only acceptable response from men should be : we must and will do better

I swear that 90% of the comments in this thread are the same person just trolling. Your gross bigotry against "straight men" is not wokeness.

Straight men are our natural partners, or should be our natural partners on paper, because in the end Gay or straight men think a like. We are equal, but I have noticed a shift in the work place in the last 3-4 years. Men are no longer asked to train females, or vice versa, in my previous employment the only men that were asked to train a female employee were gay men like me.

R19, is right. This problem is mostly between straight women and straight men.

All that women are asking with this #METOO stuff is polite and professional behavior in the workplace, and an end to abuse and harassment. How fucking hard is it to act like a professional who respects their co-workers?

Apparently straight men are horrified by the idea, and would much rather avoid women than behave themselves.

Witness: "...can't force men to mentor people that might destroy their careers"

The issue is that women will turn on a dime. Even the most innocent thing could be used against someone. It's all laughs and jokes until someone decides that innocent thing can be used in a lawsuit or to get ahead in a job.

[R32] nails it.

Those evil emotional women who "will turn on a dime". Maybe you can cry about how vulnerable you are.

Are you going to cry like a black man about to be hanged by racists or are you going to cry like Matthew Shepherd as he was being tied to fence. Maybe you'll cry like a teenage babysitter raped by Mr. Upstanding Suburban Citizen.

Maybe like everyone else you suck up how uncomfortable you are and conduct yourself the best you can and have a little faith that some people are mature, intelligent adults and hope you don't have to rely on integrity of others to sail through life drama free.

r32. When it can be turned against you and make you look bad in the eyes of the court or HQ it can't be THAT innocent though.

The issue is that men fear they can't get away with shit they could get away with before and now they are SCARED to test how far they can go to still get away with it. That's their problem right now. They want to test the limits and yet don't want to get into trouble.

There would be no fucking reason to be scared if they actually behaved professionally.

Ah this thread is the perfect block button honey trap to flush out all our resident TERFs and r/GenderCriticals that infest the site with their insane hateful shit.

The state of these shrieking hysterical cunts. These women hate gay men almost as much as they hate straight men, when are you going to wake up to this fact.

Is that more or less than straight men hate everyone who is not a straight man?

What R3 said. If straight guys are confused about what behavior is normal then they shouldn't be "mentoring" anyone.

[quote]Good. Maybe they will learn their lesson and stop harassing us.

r3 You've never been 'harassed' in your entire life tubbs.

If a guy went out for a beer with his male boss to discuss work in a more relaxed environment nobody would blink. If that same boss asked a woman, she'd scream harassment.

It's bad enough men have had to compete with other men in the workplace. Now they are forced to contend with women? Enough is enough.

Homophobia and sexism. You got twofer in. Keep up the blanket statements. You are coming off as highly educated and worthy of your career.

R41. That is great satire. I had to read it twice

Gay men can be just as bad. I have a friend who works in a place filled with gay guys, mostly in the closet. One of them regularly harasses her over her "man pants" and asks her when she is going to stop wearing them. Who the fuck does he think he is?

Maybe straight men should just stay home in their safe spaces where they don't have to "contend" with anyone that is not like them.

Fish destroy everything.

r45

Don't be so hard on yourself, R46.

BPR: Transgender woman gets working vagina constructed from FISH skin

"The issue is that women will turn on a dime."

Unlike men like this nice young man Ted Bundy who asked women to help him since his arm was in a sling. Whaddya know, next thing he fucks their decomposing bodies in a forest.

R32 & R40 yes Everyone’s so damned anxious at work these days. How easily one can get frivolously accused.

"If a guy went out for a beer with his male boss to discuss work in a more relaxed environment nobody would blink. If that same boss asked a woman, she'd scream harassment."

EXACTLY why I only want to work with guys. We can sit around a hotel room, they drink, I would smoke (not anymore) and we'd throw out ideas all night. Women would be aghast at the suggestion now. And they love their conference room meetings -- daily and without need.

Ladies, you're all so fucking powerful, YOU hire other ladies. I'm working with guys. And, yeah, I'm gay and happy about it these days especially.

Let's face it. You are limited.

[quote] EXACTLY why I only want to work with guys. We can sit around a hotel room, they drink, I would smoke (not anymore) and we'd throw out ideas all night.

r51, c'mon admit it. You don't want to run a business. You want to run a frat house! A frat house were NO GIRLS ARE ALLOWED!

Aww. Poor, poor straight men, feeling uncomfortable and shit. My heart bleeds,

Keep your dick out of the workplace even though the workplace is where you spend most of your life? People are idiots.

Maybe a better work/life balance could help you be less of a sociopath.

We all know where this is heading, right?

If straight men can no longer harass or get handsy with female employees, where do you think they are going to turn their attention to ??

Gays, you are in trouble !!!

Please list some of these oh so innocent behaviors and actions that these "turn on a dime" women are just waiting to jump on you for should you oh so innocently stumble into whatever trap they are so obviously placing for you.

Be specific.

This should be good.

Men may have responded with "more uncomfortable" as a protest. The only correct check of the situation would have been to ask men before #metoo how uncomfortable they were with women in the workplace and then ask again after #metoo to compare the change. It might not have changed much.

R58, I'm not the poster you are referring to, but what I posted @r40 actually did happen in my office.

R60, your own post at R40 was stated speculatively. And, honestly, going to a bar with the boys isn't professional. Women have been complaining about that forever because it is sexist. At least they mostly stopped going to strip clubs and then acting like it was the woman's problem if she didn't want to join them.

[quote]r16 the annual Christmas party is now a Christmas lunch catered by a sandwich shop.

Great. No one has to show up at a work event on a night off.

[quote@][R60], your own post at [R40] was stated speculatively.

Yes, it was. And you have issues with that because...?

Qnd the rest of your post at r61 is laughable.

[quote]r30 in the end Gay or straight men think alike.

Oh. You mean they both bash people's heads in for being gay?

Someone doesn't know many straight men. R64

[quote]the annual Christmas party is now a Christmas lunch catered by a sandwich shop.

Also, concerning this...basically the problem was that the men would get drunk and act like assholes toward their female co-workers and you blame the women for having to change this. Oh, okay.

R63, what fucking reality do you live in, asshole? First, you wrote that it was a speculative scenario and then you said it happened. You're nuts. And, do you think that holding business meeting in male spaces like strip clubs and bars and men's clubs didn't happen all the time? It happened so much that it is a cliche. Men are still pouting over not getting to do it anymore. Now, kindly go fuck yourself with your attitude.

[quote]Yes, it was. And you have issues with that because...?

Because you're trying to have it both ways. Either someone falsely "screamed harassment" or they didn't. If they didn't, then no, that didn't "actually happen."

Awww, r66 sounds angry that an example of metoo abuse was given. Get all the tears out, sweetie.

I didn't say anything about strip clubs. Sounds like you're living in the 80s.

And if it did "actually happen," I'd be willing to bet that it was about more than "that same boss asked a woman."

Not to mention that any "boss" who asks his employees out for drinks clearly has issues.

R67, and if I gave it as an example up thread then I would get them exact same 'this never happened' shit that I'm getting now. Gotta love DL. damned if you do, damned if you don't. And, don't get me started on the coworker who always has her tits out and flirts with all the men. The women in the office don't think much about her either.

You're getting the "this never happened" shit because what you're writing is completely unbelievable. "If that same boss asked a woman, she'd scream harassment."

Whatever you say, Jan.

Because, r69, not everything needs to be clinical. Not my problem that women dont get it, but sure like to whine about it.

Yeah, I think we're done. Thank you for confirming what we already suspected about you.

Awww, r71, stamp those clown feet and keep shrieking because I wasn't specific in my first post. As I said, on DL damned if you do, damned if you don't.

And yet the only person "shrieking" on this thread is you, R74. Why is that? What bothers you so much about this topic?

Shhhhrrrrriiiiiieeeeeekkkkkkk, people discuss business outside the office!!! Shhhhrrrrrriiiiieeeeekkkkk!!!!!!!

I don't know, r75, you seem to be doing a fair amount of whining.

Offices are supposed to be boring cages where people don't drink or flirt.

[quote]I didn't say anything about strip clubs. Sounds like you're living in the 80s.

Reading comprehension and writing skills aren't your strong points. You first stated your example was an imagined scenario and then said it really happened. Then, you say the point I made about having business meetings in male-specific places, like strip clubs, was laughable and when I explain reality to you, you say you never said anything about strip clubs. You're not very bright. Back to your cubicle.

[quote]I don't know, [R75], you seem to be doing a fair amount of whining.

Gee, let's go to the tape, shall we?

[quote]If a guy went out for a beer with his male boss to discuss work in a more relaxed environment nobody would blink. If that same boss asked a woman, she'd scream harassment.

[quote]Yes, it was. And you have issues with that because...?

[quote]And the rest of your post at r61 is laughable.

[quote]Awww, r66 sounds angry that an example of metoo abuse was given. Get all the tears out, sweetie.

[quote]I didn't say anything about strip clubs. Sounds like you're living in the 80s.

[quote]R67, and if I gave it as an example up thread then I would get them exact same 'this never happened' shit that I'm getting now. Gotta love DL. damned if you do, damned if you don't. And, don't get me started on the coworker who always has her tits out and flirts with all the men. The women in the office don't think much about her either.

[quote]Because, r69, not everything needs to be clinical. Not my problem that women dont get it, but sure like to whine about it.

[quote]Awww, r71, stamp those clown feet and keep shrieking because I wasn't specific in my first post. As I said, on DL damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[quote]Shhhhrrrrriiiiiieeeeeekkkkkkk, people discuss business outside the office!!! Shhhhrrrrrriiiiieeeeekkkkk!!!!!!!

[quote]I don't know, r75, you seem to be doing a fair amount of whining.

I rest my case.

Shhhhhrrrriiiieeeeeekkkkkk.

This is where I notice the TERFs and their Trans rights advocate 'enemy' overlap a great deal, both refuse steadfastly to accept that their may be just one bad apple amongst their cause.

The trans ideology refuse to accept that there may be some trans who are acting in bad faith and are really just fetishits, or manipulators or some other nefarious ne'er do weller. TRANS WOMEN ARE WOMEN!! repeat adnausem, any any questioning of this means you are a hatful bigot.

Similarly the feminists refuse to admit that not every #MeToo is a real example of sexual assault/harassment, that some (a lot of) women may be acting maliciously for personal gain. Or even some women have simply been brainwashed by the public hysteria and are interpretting an innocent gesture as serious sexual misconduct. Or even valouise victimhood to such an extent that they are despirately looking for some inccident to turn into a 'metoo' story of their own.

Okay there were a few murmurs of dissent during the Aziz Ansari debacle, and I've been pleasently suprised to see a few calling out the grifters like Alyssa Milano, Asia Argento or Rose McGowan. But those all came from libfem 3rd wave feminists.... who the TERFs of course reguard as traitors in league with the 'patriarchy'.

In the "Trans women are women" vein, any and all questioning of #BelieveWomen means you are automatically an incel/misoganyst/knuckle dragging bigot. I've flipped 180 on this matter in response to the feminists ridgid, dogmatic, almost religious fevor. A lot of the women (especially on DL) seem to want to hurt men in any way the can simply for being men, ad #MeToo has become an invaluble tool to do so.

Until I see feminists calling out abuse of the #MeToo movement and trying to hold some actual accountability to women who have misused use it I treat all accusation of sexual misconduct leveled by these types of women with extreme skepticism.

Innocent until proven guilty and due process should be cherished more than ever in these times, men should show soidarity with each other, you never know you could be next.

Man, there really is no topic on this forum that you anti-trans loons won't shit all over, is there?

R82, are you kidding? I mean, seriously. We've had a whole two years of men being called out on their bullshit and it's just too much for you? They've just gone too far and need to rein it in? You even give examples of women calling things bullshit when they are bullshit. Now, why don't you focus your energy on the huge percentage of powerful men who have been, and still would love to openly be, abusing women for the entire history of the world?

I don't want them anywhere near me since metoo.

Your loss, R85. And their win.

R84, huge percentage? There are 330 million people in this country. Half are men. It's not a huge percentage.

"Huge percentage of powerful men." R84 wasn't talking about the entire population of men; just those men who have power.

R86 You are an idiot. Get your vagina outta here.

It's not even a huge percentage of powerful men, r88. Let's have a link to that statement of it being a "huge percentage".

"Not to mention that any "boss" who asks his employees out for drinks clearly has issues."

What fucking decade are you living in ? And on what planet?

Clearly not in the entertainment business. Jesus... Maybe these are the rules at Box City.

Sorry, R89, but I'm male and happily so. I stand by my comment. Your loss. And their win.

r84 but they're not going after 'powerful men' are they? They're going after Bob in accounting for having the temeritty of being unattractive and existing.

R90, you're a man, aren't you? Ninety percent of women have been sexually harassed. It is a daily occurrence. And, a whole 55% have been fully sexually assaulted, not just harassed. The amount of being out of touch by you is astounding. Educate yourself.

R92 You should use that term loosely.

[quote]What fucking decade are you living in ? And on what planet?

2019. Earth.

[quote]Clearly not in the entertainment business.

The last time I checked, nobody on this thread said we were only discussing "the entertainment business." Outside the entertainment business, the "going out for drinks to talk business" shtick has been disappearing, and justifiably so.

My team's personal time is their own. I ask them to put in a good solid 8 hour day for me five days a week and then they go home or go out or do whatever they like. If I need to mentor someone, coach them, have a conversation with them, ask them to do something, criticize them, I do it on the company time and I do it at the office. And because of that, I never have had, and never will have, any issues with #metoo. My team of 5 men and 4 women trust me and respect me because I trust and respect them.

Sorry, R95, but no, I really shouldn't. You, on the other hand....

^^^Hahahahaha. Go clean your vagina.

R94, move that goal post. Still waiting for backup on that huge percent of powerful men.

R91, they don't work in finance either. I take it the people who are complaining about bosses taking people out are so unpleasant to be around that they haven't been invited anywhere.

When I get one of those, I'll be sure to do that, R98. Until then, please stop projecting your own inability to interact with women professionally onto other people.

r96 ADR, but that's simplistic. I also think you're not taking into account the careerism that really is the heart of all this. In a cut-throat environment, it's foolish to say people don't use everything at their disposal to get ahead. That includes women using sexuality. That's never discussed in all this upheaval. r32 is spot on, in that context.

The fact that it's being adjudicated on social media is part of a bigger issue of Orwellian corporate control of people's lives.

[quote] In a cut-throat environment, it's foolish to say people don't use everything at their disposal to get ahead.

How much of business life in the U.S. is a "cut-throat environment?" It's certainly not true where I work, in the high-tech industry.

Yeah, r102, the guy who was fired from Google for writing an anti diversity manifesto would disagree. That whole incident brought to light just how cut throat high tech is.

R100 oh my gosh. shut up already. You are a woman.

Um, no, it didn't. Damore was an idiot. There was nothing "cut-throat" about his manifesto or about his firing.

That will come as a complete surprise to my partner, R104, but thank you for telling me. I'll break the news to him gently that the guy fucking him tonight is a woman.

Yeah, bullshit on the high tech not being cut throat.

*Sigh* Uh-huh, r107. And show me where those people are going out for drinks, won't you?

Newsflash: Most employees do not want to go have drinks with their boss. They want to go home to their families or partners or their cats/dogs. The Christmas party? Same. Most everyone I know at my work HATES that shit. I'd much rather have a nice, catered lunch in the middle of the work day so I can go home after work and relax.

Also, all of you saying how afraid you are of working with women now are a bunch of pussy boys. Grow up, be professional at work and you won't have any issues.

r96 is the only sane person on this thread.

[quote]How much of business life in the U.S. is a "cut-throat environment?" It's certainly not true where I work, in the high-tech industry.

SIgh. I don't need to show anything about going out for drinks, r107, when ^ is what was said. Keep moving that goalpost.

R96 is putting her colleagues at a disadvantage, particularly if they need to wine and dine clients. I want to know how the newer members of the team handle being in a one-on-one situation.

Women want it both ways. They want to be part of the boys club and then they also want you to remember that they are women who need special white glove treatment. I made the mistake of hiring a friend of a friend and that bitch fucked everyone of the guys on the staff and then went to HR to complain that we weren't promoting an inclusive and woman friendly environment. And all I wanted to scream was the bitch should not have gone out with the guys after works and she should have kept her damned legs closed. If you make pussy available, straight guys are going to fuck it. I will never again hire another woman. They are like pit bulls. Docile and sweet one minute and then ripping your face off the next. No one needs or wants that hassle.

And if you hire a woman, make sure you keep them away from the old broads in other departments. They ruin the young ones. I think the old onces are jealous that the young ones still ovulate or something.

Of the dozen bosses I have had so far in my life, only one was a man. And he was perving on me and my female colleagues - forcing us to wear skimpy uniforms, up-skirting, inappropriate grabs, sexual comments in front of customers, the whole shebang. The son-in-law of one of my later female bosses did the same thing. Both guys were married to other women.

Now I deliberately seek work with staff led by and made predominantly of other women or gay men, and in future aim to establish a career where I can work alone self-employed. I'm through with straight people and especially straight men. Maybe it's their turn to be 100% uncomfortable every time they leave the house for any reason.

[quote]R96 is putting her colleagues at a disadvantage

Not at all. And it's "him," thanks. They're actually at a competitive advantage because of the trust we've built. They work together extraordinarily well and we routinely outperform the other teams in our area.

[quote]particularly if they need to wine and dine clients.

There just aren't very many people who "need to wine and dine clients." We're talking about an office environment, co-workers, managers and direct reports, not clients.

[quote]I want to know how the newer members of the team handle being in a one-on-one situation.

Remarkably well, thanks. I've got people clamoring to join my team. The members of the team work alone, work in pairs or small groups, even occasionally work as a full team on a particularly knotty issue. Because everyone on the team knows that they can trust and count on the others, they're freer to be open and relaxed about what they say and how they act.

This isn't rocket science, although it seems to be beyond a few of you. This is basic management 101, taught in countless courses, books, lectures, etc. We *know* what works and what doesn't in these situations. If you're not doing that, that's on you, not on #metoo.

yes r112. The men who willing fucked the female employee are not to blame but she is for her behavior. What. Ever.

R115 it's possible they're both to blame!

114 you lead a very insular professional life. .

R112 is a fucking idiot.

[quote]Women want it both ways. They want to be part of the boys club and then they also want you to remember that they are women who need special white glove treatment.

Never even occurred to you that the existence of 'the boys club' is the problem, huh?

R114 does sound a bit Pollyanna. No one's office team works THAT well together. Methinks there's some turmoil behind the scenes that zhe doesn't know about.

Methinks her team hates her and she doesn't know it.

r113 that post is hysterical, it can't be real, it's like it's lifted straight from the internet.

[quote]Maybe it's their turn to be 100% uncomfortable every time they leave the house for any reason.

ahahaha Maybe try an actually live in the real world rather than the world the grivence mongers in the media have painted for you that doesn't actually exist.

[quote]Millennial lesbian

ah that explains a lot.

I wouldn't hire you, because you seem to be a dangerous threat to the men (straightor gay) on my team given you seem predisposed to histrionics and victimhood. People like you are the reason absolutely no one #BelieveWomen any more.

I am tired of the straight drama. Like, why should we give a fuck?

The thing that's scaring these men is not that they want to be able to harass women and get away with it. I am pretty sure everyone making that immediate jump to the worst possibility is a millennial or gen Zer.

It's that they can be destroyed and fired based on a woman accusing them of something, even without any proof. It's not unusual to feel on edge in that sort of environment.

The justice system works on innocent until proven guilty. The part that's gotten way out of whack is that is not the case. All it takes is one accusation made publicly or privately and you can get fired because the company doesn't want to get in trouble for not handling it if it's actually true.

I know the #metooers like to say "well it's only fair because women have been oppressed and harassed and the legal system ignores them" etc etc but no, it isn't. Two wrongs don't make a right. And when you do things like this with the cancellation culture, the ramifications will be that men will be less comfortable around women until hopefully the dust settles and it becomes more egalitarian again.

R113 This doesn't sound believable at all. Only one male boss out of 12 and he just happens to be a cartoon of a sexist?

I find it hard to believe r113's boss exists and that she is actually a Millennial. It sounds more like something lifted from the movie 9 to 5.

R113 doesn't sound remotely believable. One male boss out of 12 and he just happens to be a cartoon of a sexist? Nice try.

[quote]R114 you lead a very insular professional life.

Uh-huh, right. And yet you cannot argue with anything I wrote. Again, this is very basic stuff, Management 101.

r122 Because it's 'men' in general they're after, gay or straight it could easily happen to you.

Didn't we have someone on here who was called to HR because a new female hire (millenial SJW type), had put a sexual harassment claim against him because he wasn't accommodating enough to her. She didn't know he was gay and they fired her on the spot for making it.

[quote]does sound a bit Pollyanna. No one's office team works THAT well together.

Sorry, but yeah, they do. They want it that way and I encourage it.

Seriously, have none of you actually read anything on building strong teams? Never taken a management course? Never read the research that companies like Google and Facebook have done? Never read the other academic research on what works and what does not? Never heard of Radical Candor? Never heard about building trust?

This just isn't that complicated and it isn't that hard to build. Once they see the benefit of working that way and see how much it positively affects their professional life, they get that it is in their own self-interest.

[quote]Methinks there's some turmoil behind the scenes that zhe doesn't know about.

You would be incorrect.

R128 lives in the land of makebelieve.

R127, I disagree with everything you wrote; hence the comment about you leading a very insular professional life. And the fact that you are saying things like "management 101" proves you lead a very insular professional life.

And yet, you cannot come up with anything to contradict what I wrote. Funny how that works.

I'm with R112

[quote]Once they see the benefit of working that way and see how much it positively affects their professional life, they get that it is in their own self-interest.

Honey, you are DELUSIONAL. That does not happen and people are not wired that way in general. You're either a brand new manager and full of ideas and haven't got the experience to see the real picture, or you're lying through your teeth, or both.

Meh. Everyone is uncomfortable at work. It's work.

I've got 15 years of professional experience as a manager, and the track record to back up what I'm doing, R134. And the glowing reviews from those above me and those below me to show the value of how I run my team.

Again, this is not rocket science. All I'm doing is exactly what has been proved to work over and over again, both in academic studies and in real-world examples.

There's nothing to contradict, r132. You posted mainly about yourself and made a stupid statement about wine and dining clients.

And yet, R137, you have not been able to contradict anything I've written or demonstrate that any statement I made was "stupid." Funny how that works.

R138 he doesn't have to. We simply don't believe you because we live in the real world, not your imagination. Posting Google studies isn't convincing of anything.

More on the Google Project Aristotle research.

[quote]Psychological safety was far and away the most important of the five dynamics we found -- it’s the underpinning of the other four. How could that be? Taking a risk around your team members seems simple. But remember the last time you were working on a project. Did you feel like you could ask what the goal was without the risk of sounding like you’re the only one out of the loop? Or did you opt for continuing without clarifying anything, in order to avoid being perceived as someone who is unaware?

[quote]Turns out, we’re all reluctant to engage in behaviors that could negatively influence how others perceive our competence, awareness, and positivity. Although this kind of self-protection is a natural strategy in the workplace, it is detrimental to effective teamwork. On the flip side, the safer team members feel with one another, the more likely they are to admit mistakes, to partner, and to take on new roles. And it affects pretty much every important dimension we look at for employees. Individuals on teams with higher psychological safety are less likely to leave Google, they’re more likely to harness the power of diverse ideas from their teammates, they bring in more revenue, and they’re rated as effective twice as often by executives.

And we can add one more advantage: no one on my team will ever have to worry about a #metoo accusation.

Also you're clearly a woman.

[quote]We simply don't believe you because we live in the real world,

Apparently not, since you're in denial about what works and what doesn't when building a team.

[quote]Posting Google studies isn't convincing of anything.

You mean, other than backing up everything I've written about building a team? Sorry that you don't find actual data convincing. Says a lot about you.

[quote]Also you're clearly a woman.

ROFL.... I love what you just revealed about yourself with this comment.

As a counterpoint to your Google PR articles:

R138, yet I've already saidii think your team hates you but you don't know it and the insular professional life was in relation to you thinking that nobody wines and dines clients. What else would you like "contradicted", honey?

r16

[quote]. And the annual Christmas party is now a Christmas lunch catered by a sandwich shop. I'm not going to put the company or my guys into a situation that will cause them problems.

Your guys can't have dinner and a glass of wine without being accused sexual harassment charges being laid? Your guys are losers, r16.

So you don't know the difference between "anecdote" and "data", r144? Good to know.

Again, why is this so hard for you to understand? This is basic stuff; it's not complicated, it's not controversial, it's not contradicted by any of the available data, it's been confirmed in study after study, it's been shown to work in the real world, and it's common sense.

The fact that it appears to be impossible for you to accept reveals so much about you.

Here's more of what actual Googlers say about the work environment. Trigger warning: it's not all roses!

[quote]yet I've already saidii think your team hates you

That's not a "contradiction," that's a rather silly assertion.

[quote]but you don't know it and the insular professional life was in relation to you thinking that nobody wines and dines clients.

That's not what I said. Is reading comprehension always this much trouble for you?

[quote]What else would you like "contradicted", honey?

Just one thing, please. Anything.

R147 probably believes Fox News polls Fox News puts out about what "The American People" really want.

Um, R148, Google proved what works; they didn't say that all of their teams were doing it. Seriously, just stop; you have no idea what you're talking about and you're just embarrassing yourself.

Clearly you don't know the meaning of contradict, r149.

R151 you do an awful lot of ad hominem attacks. Google also "proved" the open office concept was the be all end all of workplace environments. Guess what turned out to be bullshit too?

[quote]—What about ACTUAL DATA don't you understand????????

You don't have any, so there's nothing to "understand." Here's another article on high-performing teams.

Whenever it is mentioned that there are women who use and will use "me too" to bring down someone they don't like, people always chime in with the fabricated "fact" that "less than 1% of metoo accusers are lying"

[quote]R151 you do an awful lot of ad hominem attacks

I see no reason to pretend that your posts are well-informed, logical, or based in the real world. The fact that you simply do not understand basic management tactics is your problem, not mine.

[quote]Clearly you don't know the meaning of contradict, R149.

Thank you for confirming that you cannot back up your attacks.

And another study on high-performing teams.

Seriously, just do a web search on that phrase. There are countless example, studies, blog posts, etc. This just isn't that difficult.

I have to confess, though, that I love these idiots who insist that nobody could possibly have a high-performing team like the one I manage, even though I'm just doing what the experts recommend and what countless studies have proved works.

Thank you for again proving you don't know the meaning of contradict, r157. Thanks for playing. Better luck next time.

You're tiresome and boring, r157, and delusional. Time to block and move on from your bullshit. Go troll some other thread. I presume you do the same browbeating of your team members (if they exist) until they tell you what you want to hear, because you simply have to have the last word.

Thank you for confirming that you cannot back up your attacks, R160. Thanks for playing. Better luck next time.

Just as I thought, r157's got over 37 posts on this thread. Repeating things doesn't make you right, dear.

[quote]You're tiresome and boring, R157, and delusional.

LOL... Says the idiot who can't bring himself to believe that basic, well-documented management techniques actually work.

[quote]Time to block and move on from your bullshit

Oh, no!!!! I'm blocked!!!!! Whatever will I do???? How will I ever recover from this deadly blow????

R163, dear, you might want to check your own posting history. And posting the data to back up what I'm writing does, in fact, make me right. Mindless personal attacks to the contrary, on the other hand, don't back up anything.

Just zap the twit, r163. She wants people to "contradict" her

Fuck them

Actually, you're right that I'm fine with what you morons are doing. I love watching you make fools of yourselves.

By the way, R166, have you learned to comprehend what I wrote about wining and dining client or did you want to keep lying about it?

Didn't Sheryl Sandberg get revealed to be a fraud? Something came out not that long ago that made her hide, but I can't remember what it was (perhaps her hiding worked)

[quote] Ninety percent of women have been sexually harassed. It is a daily occurrence. And, a whole 55% have been fully sexually assaulted, not just harassed.

R94 where are you getting your figures? The highest figure I could find was from a Stop Street Harassment survey, which considering the source, one would expect to have some bias, and they only found 81%, not 90%, have experienced sexual harassment, and that is in their entire life not just at work. And, it is no where near fifty percent that has been assaulted, especially in the US and other western nations, the accepted statistic is one in five or 20%.

The problem with sexual harassment is that it can be extremely subjective. There are things that we can all agree is over the line, like exposing one's self to a colleague, but other things are more individualized. A woman might be fine with one colleague asking her out, but would term another one asking her out as sexual harassment. Then you have people like Joe Biden, some women defend his hugs while others say they are creepy.

Then there are women that really do use the issue to their advantage. I am bisexual, and I was once working in a small creative office during college. A new woman, around my age, joined the office, at the same level as me. She flirted with me everyday for a few months, often making sexual remarks, but when I decided to ask her out, she said I was sexually harassing her and reported me to the boss. Thankfully, because we had one of those open plan offices, the boss and all the other employees knew how she had been flirting and leading me on, and I was only told to not ask her out again. But, she was told to modify her behavior or she would be the one facing the consequences. It was clear to me, and others in the office, why she did it, there was an opening for an advanced position and it was between the two of us, so she was trying to knock me out of contention. This was before #Metoo and I shudder to think what would have happened now.

You'd likely have been fired or demoted, r171, no questions asked. If she didn't get her way she could Tweet it and damage the company.

Remember when feminist icon Margaret Atwood dared voice some questions about the way MeToo was going and was suddenly unpersoned and dog piled on. I saw some remarks from her recently, and she seems to have learned her lesson and is now singing from the hymn sheet that the millenial women who watch her show want to hear now.

"We're talking about an office environment, co-workers, managers and direct reports, not clients." In other words... Box City. 9 to 5 and then time to run home and blow up the inflatable pool in the backyard.

For most of us, meeting people outside at restaurants and bars -- high end and low -- are part of the game. Certainly in my business and I would imagine most others. And it's not all obligation. Part of the fun of my business is getting to know other creative colleagues, male and female (or used to be female too, anyway). But then I am not working with people whose idea of a good time is getting a new screen door at Sears.

Or, since women are pretty clue impaired - men still control opportunities at the mid to senior tiers. Men aren’t going to take chances on getting sued. So, women aren’t getting opportunities as a result of the endless barrage of metoo. In the last couple of companies I’ve been at, the only time I’ve seen women promoted is when they’re working for another woman.

Men aren’t promoting women. Men aren’t hiring women where they have to work closely with them. It’s too muc legal risk and it has nothing to do with hormones. It has everything to do with legal exposure. Nobody’s risking his career on the chance a woman is going to pull a metoo gambit as a power play.

Even if she’s proved a liar, your career is ruined. Fuck that shit.

amen r175

Nobody wants to work with these fucking cunts.

So many anxious cowards.

Rad Fems are trying to have it both ways

Cowards because insane women wield significant power to ruin someone on a whim?

I worked at a non profit organization where our CEO only hired other women or LGBTQ2S+ individuals. Is that alright with feminists?

[quote]Google also "proved" the open office concept was the be all end all of workplace environments. Guess what turned out to be bullshit too?

A 5th grader could've told you that was bullshit. Herding people into a big open space like animals in a pen is counterproductive. Humans aren't wired that way. We all need a modicum of privacy, even if it's cubicles.

Looks like the Cupcake Troll is back.

So what the straight men are saying is that they're absolutely horrified that anyone in authority could take a woman's word over theirs, I mean horrified like the natural order of things has been overturned. And that they're not going to engage in any relationship with a woman unless they control the terms and boundaries of the relationship.

And that none of that has anything to do with male privilege or sexism.

Shame on any gay man who thinks or acts that way, is all I can say. We're supposed to be more enlightened than they are!

R184 No, they are horrified that ANYONE's word should be taken as true, instead of people having to prove accusations.

You have to realize the number of women who make harrassment claims that are untrue or greatly exaggerated. I've seen it happen. Nobody wants to put themselves in a potentially career-ending situation.

exactly, r185. In the current climate where people say "believe all victims," they've already decided accusers are "victims." It's fucking dangerous.

Sorry, darling, I'm a gay man and more than one woman tried to start rumors about me being "too friendly" and encouraging sexual material (I was a teacher but of adults), all of it bullshit which I called them out on immediately -- and got the usual tears of denial. And this was long before metoo hit its ugly stride. Once they found out I was gay, they would just adjust the gossip -- to no point, thankfully.

Still... fuck that shit. Wait until you get accused falsely -- and, yeah, I had a bad one that had nothing to do with sexual harassment or whatever but cost me months of work -- by some dumb girl who picked me from a photo and STILL got it wrong (it was someone on a different gig from mine, we found out later). One wrong accusation is too many and I didn't even get it as bad as others have. It's also one more reason i believe NOTHING blindly. Women are terrible about this stuff.

R187 Also, is everyone ignorant of history, even 20th century history? Look at all the men, almost exclusively African American men, who were lynched because of the accusations of almost exclusively white women. Those women's accusations were "believed" and that they were viewed as victims, yet many of the accusations were false.

So many misogynists.

I no longer mentor anyone. I no longer meet with females in a closed door room and if privacy is required, I require two other staff in attendance.

EARNED misogyny. Have a meeting with your gender and make sure they know how damaging wrongful accusations are. And then we'll talk. Until then.... believe nothing.

R190 Nope. Men who have dealt with women who lie.

ESPECIALLY in my business.

[quote]I no longer mentor anyone. I no longer meet with females in a closed door room and if privacy is required, I require two other staff in attendance.

This has been standard practice for a while now. I'm an out gay man and I don't do closed door, one-on-one meetings anymore. I can't even remember the last time I saw that.

Sad if so. I do closed meetings with guys all the fucking time. Different world. And never have an issue with them either.

The number of women who lie about being sexually harassed is about the same that lie about being raped. Next to none. Why should we believe your bullshit stories about being accused instead of the women? Women spent millennia not being believed. You've dealt with a tiny fraction of that for five years and look at the epic levels of whining. Men are so fragile.

Doesn't the redpill incel in this thread have anything better to do with his micropeen than post on a gay board about how pissed he is that he can no longer perv on female colleagues who would rather be burned alive than fuck him?

[quote]For most of us, meeting people outside at restaurants and bars -- high end and low -- are part of the game.

I think your experience is not universal.

r197 What's the scientific basis for "next to none"? Can you quote any peer-reviewed studies for that?

Your argument is basically "men deserve this because women have spent a long time being harassed and not believed" yet you're also pissed that men might react protectively and try to shield themselves from women taking advantage of the power to destroy a man with one false claim of unproveable sexual harassment? You can't have it both ways.

In courts you're innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around. #metoo upends that.

[quote]I'm an out gay man and I don't do closed door, one-on-one meetings anymore. I can't even remember the last time I saw that.

I do; it's common in my industry. And necessary.

Neither is your's, r199.

[quote]Looks like the Cupcake Troll is back.

He never left.

I didn't claim it was, R202, unlike you: "and I would imagine most others."

Our incel troll is James Damore, still unhirable, still unfuckable...

You should reread your post, r204. You most certainly implied it.

[quote]The number of women who lie about being sexually harassed is about the same that lie about being raped. Next to none. Why should we believe your bullshit stories about being accused instead of the women?

Oh fuck off I've seen it happen firsthand. I've had friends who've seen it as well.

R197 There is NO consensus on the number of false accusations of rape. There have been studies that have shown it as being anywhere between 1.5%-90%. But, there isn't a whole lot of research in the field, because it would be so politically charged.

Also, I can find no study about false accusations of sexual harassment, because it would be so hard to prove, since, many companies settle, even if they don't believe it is warranted, in order to avoid court.

Really, R206? Writing "I think your experience is not universal" "implies" that my own experience is? Seriously?

You need help.

Educate yourself, R207.

Oh, but see, R210: that link cannot possibly be true because, "Oh fuck off I've seen it happen firsthand. I've had friends who've seen it as well. "

See, he "knows" it, so therefore anything that contradicts his world view must be fake.

I don't care if every study in the world showed the number of false claims of harrassment is zero, I've seen it happen myself, I know people it's happened to. I am not going to put myself in a potential situation where I could be falsely accused of anything. That's real life, and it doesn't follow a pc agenda. r211 you can fuck right off.

R209 with the asshat reply of "you need help". You certainly did imply it. Own it..

"Why should we believe your bullshit stories about being accused" Because my female accuser admitted she got the wrong guy -- months after the fact. Had she not, my life in the 2000s would've been very different. I hadn't even been told it was her who had trashed me to her boss, the one who was responsible for my being hired.

Thankfully, I had a cool team handling me (still do) that glared at the boss and growled, "Fix. It." And the boss did, making it up to me for years after.

Not everyone gets that happy ending though. Especially these days with trial by internet. (It's also where I learned not to take the high road. Fight back, guys).

The Desert Sun (Palm Springs paper) had a front page article today on Coachella Fest. One in six women claimed they were sexually assaulted at the Festival. Drill down, a shoulder pat, a rump pat were deemed sexual assault.

After you, R212.

[quote]Nobody wants to work with these fucking cunts.

Why would I "own" something so demonstrably false, R213?

Oh no I posted something Cupcake doesn't like! Just kill yourself, you trolldar loser.

Groping women probably was a normality and now that they can't do this anymore without retribution they'll complain.

R210 That study does not concern whether harassment claims are justified or not. Its purpose was to explain that there is a gender disparity in what is considered harassment, in an attempt to define what constitutes sexual harassment. Did you actually read the study? Also, in science, even the soft social sciences, nothing can be proven by one study, it must be replicated in multiple studies.

You first, R218.

Because you implied that client facing jobs are the exception, r217, when the truth is the higher up you go you're going to have client face time. If you're in sales, marketing, PR, finance, entertainment, sociology etc... you're going to have client face time. Shit even Walmart greeters have client face time.

PR- you're always meeting people in restaurants and bars.

and there's that false "statistic" again that says almost no accusations of sexual harassment are ever proven false. Where do you gt this??? Nonsense.

[quote]Its purpose was to explain that there is a gender disparity in what is considered harassment,

Exactly the point of my posting it, R220. All those "false allegations" you and your friends experienced were possibly only false to you. Women perceive it differently. Their perceptions are now being taken seriously whereas before only the men's perceptions were. Men aren't dealing well with it and have decided to punish women instead of changing their behavior or, god forbid, trying to see things from other people's perspectives. Two things men, in general, are terrible at...change and seeing other people's perspectives when they differ from their own.

[quote]Because you implied that client facing jobs are the exception, R217

Had I meant to say something like that, I'd have probably said something like that. I didn't.

r225 there is a HUGE difference between taking concerns seriously - which they have been - to what has been happening under the #metoo monniker, which is essentially "guilty before proven innocent". All it takes is ONE accusation and your career can be ruined. Can you not, at least, admit that it is taking it too far? Trial by angry mob is NOT justice, and it's kind of shocking that you're saying this is okay.

R225 In my example, up thread. Was it my perception that was off, when I asked out a colleague, who had been flirting with me for months, it was mainly on her end, as I am naturally shy, including her making sexual comments to me? Even though all the men AND women in the office agreed that it was her that was in the wrong, not me.

This is the problem with making objective policies about something that is so subjective and individualistic. Perhaps, in her "perception" it was perfectly fine to flirt with a guy and make sexually suggestive comments to him, but if the guy then asked her out, in response to her flirting, that was crossing the line. Even though, I fail to believe that any truly objective person could come to that conclusion.

R219. Yes, as a gay man, my first thought on meeting a woman was always “how can I grab her tits or finger her pussy?”.

Idiot. You’re again posting on a gay board and accusing gay men of sexually molesting women. Get a grip on reality. Or perhaps you’re emphasizing the unreality of the accusations with your behavior.

Wut a shitshow. Glad I'm self employed. Can do cubicles and can't suck ass and can't sit in traffic or do commutes.

And meetings. The endless, pointless fat-chewing sessions filled with passive-aggressive gymnastics.

Don't forget Post-Its™!

In the nineties, I worked for a major corporation, in a marketing office setting. An upper Manager asks his beautiful young Columbian secretary (words of that era) to entertain another male peer from of State. She states no, that she was engage, and leaves immediately. Several months later, she gets introduced to another visiting male Manager, and her boss, in front of the guy, tries to arrange the young beautiful secretary and they visitor to get together while he was in town, and have her show him a good time. She gets flustered, and runs from the office, shocked being put in such a position. Nothing happened to anyone, even when reported.

My ex-wife, working for the same company, worked on a project with a upper Manager for months. At it's completion, and release, he asks her to come to his house for a barbecue with his family. She arrives. No one else home but the upper level boss. He welcomes her into the living room. Small talk, and he then puts a porno movie in the TV. My ex, frozen with fear, can't comprehend what's going on, and just sits there. She eventually left, but actually stayed and did not run when he put the porno tape on. I often wonder if she did succumbed, as she had severe Daddy issues, and it the throws off an eating disorder.

All this Me too moments is about putting men in check. It's been going on to long. Afraid to be around women because you may be falsely accused? Try stop thinking with your dick, and get down to business, doing business. As I always say to boorish men: Junior High is over.

Better watch out because men might start getting treated like women in the workplace have always been treated.

r233 while your experience may have occurred, there have been HUGE strides forward in sexual harassment management since even the 90s. You sound like you've been in a time capsule yourself, with phrases like "boorish" and "Junior High is over", so perhaps you haven't noticed.

It's great that you want to tell men to stop being afraid of being around women, but perhaps actual justice can return to the process instead of being "she accused me publicly now I've been fired and can't get a job anywhere" mob justice? Or are you saying that's okay, if it's done to men? How far do you want to take it? Because people always take it further than that.

R233 Those situations are ones that most people, regardless of gender, can agree is wrong and should be considered inappropriate. You could be a deaf and blind eunuch and decide those situations were wrong and the man should be fired. They are not the situations that the vast majority of men are concerned about.

I've never been afraid of being accused by an older woman, but now that I'm older, the thought of a private meeting with a female colleague sounds like more trouble than its worth. Many jobs I've had females regarded gay men as just being one of the girls, but since I didn't pass for gay and was ambitious, I immediately got treated derisively by both. Once you or someone you know goes through that kind of experience, you'll never ever go woke. Guaranteed.

I dunno, people tend not to like people they fear. You're bound to be disliked levering victimization for gain and creating environments of fear. This will lead to more nuttiness.

R238 I agree. People should be treated like individuals, but it's a catch 22 situation. If you reveal personal details about yourself, your overstepping your boundaries, but if you remain completely aloof, you are judged for other peoples' actions for no other reason than looking like them.

R237 When it comes to older women, I have had experiences that I could have accused them over, but I haven't. These women came into the business world at a time, when instead of changing the workplace they just joined in the culture. And, as a result they have become very handsy.

R240. Exactly. The goddamn hugging. The insistence I join them at a bar for drinks.

I don’t drink. I will not join anybody at a bar any reason, ever. Keep your damn hands off me.

Who cares? Probably 100% of women are more comfortable now working with men.

All this plays into a general misanthopia., so don't worry your heads over inappropriate behaviour or misplaced affections -- that's why you have cats to stroke and dogs to kiss.

Haven't read article or comments but I gotta say women can't help but shoot themselves in the foot.

No one gives you power. You TAKE power. But you need to earn that protective base. Women aren't biologically programmed to support each other...so they're spinning their wheels. A threatened woman will not hesitate to cut another woman's throat. Ego + scarcity (limited resources). That's why they're not trusted in positions of power. Emotions and competition always trump the financial gain. A big no no in business. These #metoo twats exposed their au regulaire treatment of their fellow women but shifted it onto men. So now they know how it feels to be a competent woman who has it all at the hands of other women. Having petty gossip ruin your livelihood or put a dent in your finances, mere survival. Food on table. Roof over head.

Seen it so many times. Female could be 5 or 75 they loathe women better than them and don't care what they have to do to bring them down. Razor to her throat without blinking. It is innate.

[quote]All it takes is ONE accusation and your career can be ruined.

Where are the careers of Woody Allen and Bryna Singer ruined?

It took literally decades to put pigs like Cosby, Weinstein and R Kelly behind bars or in front of a judge.

Not a frat-house, r53; a TREE-house!

Says r244, who probably voted for THE most cut-throat, insecure, hater of betters, threatened, and untrustworthy man!

Woody isn't even a true MeToo story (his is family, not work related) and he STILL is a poster child. Hence the lawsuit over the unreleased amazon film which is, indeed, ridiculous on amazon's part. Assholes.

"...the thought of a private meeting with a male colleague sounds like more trouble than its worth."

Says a woman to r237.

R241 Hugging, consider yourself lucky, the old broads I was talking about have goosed me, felt up my thigh under the table, and slipped their hand in my pocket to give me a "surprise."

R245 It is a false analogy, those men were/are famous. The average man is not treated the same as those men. Everyone knows that the famous are treated differently. Just like how you can't hold up R. Kelly, Michael Jackson, Kobe Bryant, or OJ, as proof that there is no racial bias in the judicial system, because if they had been an average black man, they would have been in jail decades ago.

r247 you can't comment on his actual statement so you're implying that he's a Trump voter? Nice strawman.

Except she would say "it's."

r251, My description of Trump, regardless of any "straw-man," stands as my main point: That r244 asininely generalized about WOMEN, when we all have a MALE PRESIDENT with the very traits said poster attributes to females!

[quote] Haven't read article or comments

Clearly. This is about the backlash to the metoo phenomenon. That is women being punished for standing up to sexual harassment. What you're talking about is something entirely different.

"Cancellation", it sounds like a cunty euphemism for murder.

Here's the Axios summary:

A new poll from LeanIn.org and SurveyMonkey found that 60% of male managers are uncomfortable taking part in workplace activities like mentoring and socializing with junior-level women — a 32% increase from last year.

Why it matters: It highlights how women can receive less support and development in their careers — as well as the ability to prove themselves in the workplace — as men in leadership positions pull back in the wake of the #MeToo movement.

By the numbers: 36% of all men say they've purposefully avoided mentoring or socializing with a woman because they were "nervous about how it would look."

Men at senior levels are especially avoiding activities they feel may look bad — they're 12 times more likely than junior-level men to hesitate about having a 1-on-1 meeting with a woman.

The big picture: 70% of employees surveyed say their company has "taken action to address sexual harassment," a 46% increase from last year.

Yes, but: Half of polled employees say punishments for sexual harassment are not harsh enough.

Of course they'd say that. R256: FEAR environment.

Who is "they", r257?

Here's the link to the SurveyMonkey poll:

"Half of polled employees say punishments for sexual harassment are not harsh enough."

"Why it matters: It highlights how women can receive less support and development in their careers — as well as the ability to prove themselves in the workplace — as men in leadership positions pull back in the wake of the #MeToo movement."

Women were not supported in their careers by men in the past. So this changes NOTHING except it holds men accountable for their shitty behavior. I have zero fear of losing out on a chance to be "mentored" by a man since it has never happened to me in the 40 + years I've been working.

Might you have been projecting a lil anger, lez?

They knew an ill-tempered troublemaker when they saw one, and stayed the fuck away.

We need some kind of repatriation programme with LSA and r/GenderCritical asap.

You Have To Go Back.

Cats Who Spray.

Thank you for your support R251. Best part is that I'm Canadian but that troll always accuses me of being Russian. Can pass for one in facial features but it ends there. And MY people nail skating golds over those landlocked peasants. Winter olympics so satisfying now, non?

Paysan!

R253, I agree w/you on Trump's character. Like a woman is he..an almost pretty/beautiful woman who cannot stand to accept there are going to be beauties out there that have it all. God forbid a relative ends up scoring one of these gems. Fucking brutal. Put one in an office situation and watch the sharks blood let her in the water. The sabotage involved when a woman compares herself to the "rival" & comes up short is : FURY. It's a biological mechanism humans have held in our evolution to this day. Society has evolved but we as a species are not yet caught up. This byproduct actually shines the light on the power women do yield but in another realm. Mothers have ultimate control in shaping our descendants. The hand that rocks the cradle...right?

The man I work with would all agree that the workplace has become more dangerous since this movement started. Straight men in particular are very worried about having their actions misconstrued. I have seen personally a woman with poor performance try and use this against her supervisor. Overzealous human resource people are part of the problem as well.

R254, wrongo! I cut right to the chase.

Don't try punching above your weight because I'll knock you out w/1 shot.

I see Damore hasn't given up the old party-supply-store witch nose @ R205 (if the picture isn't shopped, that is.)

Google is treading dangerous ground.

Ex-employees compare it to a cult.

r269 get your head out of your ass. Incidents being discussed are not actual harrassment like the ones you described.

Is a man walking up behind a seated woman in a meeting and putting his hands on her shoulders for five seconds sexual harassment? Is a man telling a woman her hair looks great today sexual harassment? Is a man telling a juvenile joke about a condom in mixed company at a company lunch party sexual harassment? I bet the answers will vary depending on the sex of the person answering.

The problem for men now is that the perspective on whether those things are sexual harassment or not isn't solely theirs. If women think it is sexual harassment, you have to take that into consideration. They never had to do that before. They get the "don't grab her tits" level. They still don't get the more subtle level that women define as harassment. Right now, they are getting hit over the head with a club to get them to figure it out. That's why they are so angry about it. The younger men are getting it more quickly which is why this "oh, I can't be alone with or mentor a woman" crap is much more prevalent in the senior levels.

R273 The problem is that men are expected to know what each individual woman's definition of harassment is. One woman would call the hands on shoulders harassment, another would have no problem with it, same about commenting on their hair. And that is the problem, it really isn't about male verses female, it is about individuals. Yet, instead of the woman just telling the man "you, know I don't like that, don't do it again", instead of escalating it to HR, we are expecting the man to be psychic and know what each person wants. It would be like if you go into a restaurant and expect the waiter to just know what you want to eat, instead of telling him/her.

R271, I worked in the Google building in Chelsea. Have a connection to about 1/4th of their employees former & present. Man, do I have a tale for you about how alarming a threat women pose to other women. The stuff that went down. A whole dept of females lost their shit when a petite computer genius joined an IT dept. A beauty. In any culture in this world-world class beauty. The women targeted her like a piece of chum because all male employees were besotted by this finely cut gem of a human female specimen.

Because of slovenly GOOGLE IT execs incel types we got 3 day weekends because the entire building had to be fumigated for multiple roach infestations. Hand to God.

This beauty crawled out with only her skeleton in tact. It wasn't at the hands of men.

Groups of women and groups of men operate on old, prehistoric codes. Women need to be equals overall. Males, no.

All the handwringing over the poor “misunderstood “ men, lmao.

R274, as you do. Agree, just another case of our American tendency to over-correct.

But you see, women can't really rely on other women to have their backs. Women perceive themselves as commodities. In short, selling each other out. Sexual harassment exposure is occurring because women themselves are jealously guarding their positions of worth and odds of success OVER a more favored female. Women are shining the light on men who grant higher status and value on OTHER women. They don't really fear these men. They fear their rivals power over these men. The advantage. They're fine when they are favored and have the edge. Not when another woman can knock them off of their perch.

The real crux of this matter is women vs. women. Don't you ever forget it.

R274, those are all sexual harassment. You don't put your hands on any woman at work. You don't comment on a woman's attractiveness at work. You don't make juvenile sex jokes at work. The problem is that men want to keep doing these things. If you want to do those things, go to your local bar and have at it. The fact that men ever thought those things were okay is the problem. The problem is being corrected.

Ha. R277 is mansplaining personified. He'll tell us women exactly what we are thinking at all times. So glad he's around. Sexist idiot. Make up your damn minds. Are women coming together to take down all men or are we constantly warring with each other over those men? We've been accused of both in this thread. Can't be both at the same time, genius, except in the minds of men, I guess.

r278 Sensible women (ie the majority) don't regard any of those as harassment or anything close, they hate women like you and rightly so. Notice how most women have reservations about the trans agenda, yet despise TERFs and their rhetoric.

R278, that's true but men & women working side by side only started within last millenia. Guess these are our growing pains but sexual harassment pales in comparison to female combat in the workplace.

If women decided to honestly, wholeheartedly act on 'old boys club' commodity between sisters..men would be left without a choice but to conform to womens' rules. The potential, kinetic power would move mountains! After all, those hands rock the cradle

R279 touché. Women can be EVERYTHING

Women in the workplace are passive aggressive cunts, I would much rather have to work with a man than a woman.

Gay man here 58, self employed for the last 30 years.

R279, genius here. Stay in the shallow end, dear Clementine

There are a couple bitches on here who are dominating the conversation, with 10% or more of the posts. One claims to be a Canadian in one of her posts, then refers to herself as American in another. It's just more of Poo's BPD play-acting is all.

An attractive has-it-all woman is FORCED into submitting to men fir survival and protection BECAUSE other women are striving to eliminate her from a decent, honest livelihood in their sphere.

THE END

THIS!^

The toxic masculinity status quo in the work place is gone. And that gets these incels so mad. Because they refuse to let go of all their macho agression to establish their masculine superiority over other men and all these inferior minorities including women.

They are scared, because they have difficulties to adapt. They refuse to believe that superior beings like these so called alpha males should not be forced to accept that they no longer can act like they own the place and everyone who's in it.

R285, you very well know who i am & that I hold dual citizenship

Hang on I thought 'incels' were all beta males, now they're macho agressive alphas?

Maybe just labellig any man not kowtowing to the latest round of feminist whinging an 'incel' isn't really working out well.

R285, if you dare DARE accuse me of being Poo or some other eastern euro or Russian ever again..

I will see your ass in DL court! 😅

One singular psycho is up to over 20% of the comments on this thread - over 40 posts in just a few hours. The last 5 to 7 posts are all by the same person. And if you count another blocked poster who sounds very similar to psycho #1, then you're up to about 35% of all the posts in a 300-post thread being made by 1 or max 2 people.

People, consider that in a thread like this you're not participating in a discussion about current events, you're feeding a crazy troll with a psychologically skewed POV. Just call it out and move on. I'm not wasting my time talking to it.

Yeah I did the block/ignored tab trick and noticed one of them posting tons is the sad thirsty RadFem from the 'Hollywood Lesbians' thread.

R291, you took the time? 😂

Attempt at control on an anonymous board because she lost a debate. No wonder the Daily Fail won't admit to reading here

R291, but you'll casually take YOUR TIME acknowledging me.

Your time holds no value, Clementine

I'm just better than you.

So many promotions now won't happen. Sad.

R273, I think the best rule of thumb would be this: if you wouldn't do it/say it to a male co-worker, then don't do it/say it to a female co-worker.

Still better than you

[quote] Because of slovenly GOOGLE IT execs incel types we got 3 day weekends because the entire building had to be fumigated for multiple roach infestations. Hand to God.

Are you saying these incels destroyed the place with their sloppiness?

I see the "all you men are misogynist incels with mommy issues" freak is posting here.

when you give a group unchecked power and treat their word as gospel, they take advantage of that . Men or women.

All that precious mentoring over drinks and dinner straight male bosses liked to do with female employees - no more! What an uncomfortable place now is for straight men! Poor things. What‘s the point of power, anyway?

To these guys it must feel like the walls are closing in and they seriously question what's the point of power if you can't grab some pussies and get away with it? Damn women getting way too uppity.

Straight men can't handle the fact that they can't have it all their way anymore. They will never know a fraction of how uncomfortable they've made countless women in the workplace.

The smell of self-righteous vag in this thread is nauseating.

See the oldies up before dawn. Don't make being black pathetic

It's turned into a colored thread, so BYE

Aah, we don't. Care

White people problems.

This thread reminds me of the scenes in The Big Bang Theory starring Regina King as HR's Janine trying to deal with Sheldon not understanding what he did wrong now.

I have no stake into the whole Me Too thing so I'm not going to get into the whole debate. That being said, I found it amusing in a schadenfreude type of way how many of the accused were prominent political journalists. I've known some of these types in professional settings and they are the most sanctimonious, above it all elitists you will ever meet. They are constantly appointing themselves moral and intellectual arbiters while being the biggest snot nosed, bigoted (and surprisingly conservative at heart ) hypocrites on the planet. Hoisted by their own petard I suppose.

r7 If you believe that poll you're really fucking gullible. Do we all have jobs here? Do most of us have experience in a workplace? When have you ever observed straight guys showing any good will, mentor ship or favoritism to a female out of the goodness of their hearts?

I have observed straight guys being obstructive, passive aggressive, territorial and closing ranks when it comes to promotion and support in the workplace. I've seen them use language to make women uncomfortable. You don't have to be professionally psychologically trained to see the power plays men pull subtly and not so subtly on women.

Much to my surprise straight men prefer men even if they are gay as long as you are not throwing your "gay" around, you get preferential treatment over women too.

Women are pretty good too with uncomfortable office chit chat. I don't want to hear about your period, yeast Infections and cramps. I don't care about your sex life or boyfriend issues. Take it outside of the office.

I feel bad bashing women, but I have just encountered way too many psychotic scumbags. I feel bad for the ones that are actually level headed and sweet.

Ditto. The extraordinary ones only look better as a result, though. But one can't unlearn truths learned from experience. I've known a lot of evil women too.

[quote] When have you ever observed straight guys showing any good will, mentor ship or favoritism to a female out of the goodness of their hearts?

I was promoted and mentored by a man. Who the hell are you to tell someone what their experience is?

r311 = Fox News watcher

[quote]The smell of vag is nauseating.

r304 FTFY

[quote] They are scared, because they have difficulties to adapt. They refuse to believe that superior beings like these so called alpha males should not be forced to accept that they no longer can act like they own the place and everyone who's in it.

Yeah, you say you're going after "alpha" male culture, but then target weak men, calling them incels or whatever. When I entered the workforce, I was a closeted gay who was unsure of myself and was eaten alive by the women. I'm not going to say the men were much better, but the self righteous moralizing by these women is nauseating.

[quote] I think the best rule of thumb would be this: if you wouldn't do it/say it to a male co-worker, then don't do it/say it to a female co-worker.

LOL. If that were true, we wouldn't be having this debate.

[quote] Yeah, you say you're going after "alpha" male culture, but then target weak men, calling them incels or whatever. When I entered the workforce, I was a closeted gay who was unsure of myself and was eaten alive by the women. I'm not going to say the men were much better, but the self righteous moralizing by these women is nauseating.

It's quite telling that you hold a grudge against these women, but, what, give the men a free pass for the sake of this thread?

Women = CUNTS! Right?

R319 Men in positions of power can be absolved of any criticism, but not so the majority of men who are just entering the workforce or just trying to get ahead. They are never given the benefit of the doubt.

I bet men are “uncomfortable” with seeing their unmerited advantages slowly eroding. They are uncomfortable too that they can’t call gay men fags anymore or black people niggers. It’s all women’s fault, it’s gay men’s fault and the fault of African Americans making these nice men “uncomfortable”.

oh boy

R321 There she is. There’s her real face.

But this never happens....

r324, for the love of god, there are a million MRA sites where your kind can congregate and pretend you're victims! Why don't you go there?

r325 does NOT want you to contradict her false narrative! Believe all liars!!!

Nah, just tired of whiny straight guys who have the internet cater to them, but still need to bring their issues everywhere else.

r325 Maybe one day I'll do just that... See I'd always thought the MGTOW/incels were insane misogynists , but with this intransigence and vindictiveness in women now I'm starting to think they may have a colonel of truth to their claims.

[quote] They are uncomfortable too that they can’t call gay men fags anymore or black people niggers.

You're clearly delusional if you think people are calling using those terms in public. Those who do use those terms behind closed doors will continue to do so despite your moralizing. If you're so angry with straight men, why bring your anti male crusade to a gay message board? Gay men have been victimized by both men and women, so don't think you'll get much sympathy by laying all the blame at mens' feet.

"I bet men are “uncomfortable” with seeing their unmerited advantages slowly eroding. They are uncomfortable too that they can’t call gay men fags anymore or black people niggers. It’s all women’s fault, it’s gay men’s fault and the fault of African Americans making these nice men “uncomfortable”."

What sad world do you live in? Victimland?

Pathetic.

If you think women show any solidarity with gay men or even other women in professional environments, then you clearly don't go out much. It's all about using and consolidating power no matter what gender.

[quote] If you're so angry with straight men, why bring your anti male crusade to a gay message board?

Straight male boards ban you for voicing even the slightest criticism of males. I don't bring hetero issues here and I hope that straight men would not either.

r332 Well round here straight males > women so move along Doris, no one here wants to indulge your deluded oppression fantasy, boohoohoo.

[quote] Well round here straight males > women

I'll make sure to remember that, even when you don't want me to. ;)

R321, blaming others for one's own inabilities isn't flying anymore.

"I bet men are “uncomfortable” with seeing their unmerited advantages slowly eroding. They are uncomfortable too that they can’t call gay men fags anymore or black people niggers. It’s all women’s fault, it’s gay men’s fault and the fault of African Americans making these nice men “uncomfortable”."

Unmerited advantages? It's like you want to punish people who shine. Douse their light because your demographic can't get it together. What would anyone think about blacks brawling in McDonalds on a weekly basis? Are we not supposed to notice?

Fucked up shit.

That is very very fucked up.

It's really become a problem as of late. Lately, I see gay men being smeared as self hating because they find masculine traits attractive, just as most women do. Ironically, those same people trying to shame those who find conventional males attractive will hop on a thread calling that man ugly, shallow, and all kinds of offensive terms without even knowing who they are. These social crusaders just come across as insecure and bitter.

[quote] If you think women show any solidarity with gay men or even other women in professional environments, then you clearly don't go out much. It's all about using and consolidating power no matter what gender.

Here's the thing: Most of us grow up with the belief that this is a straight, white men's world and if you are a member of any other group (LGBT, black, latino, Asian, women, some other religion than Christians, etc.) there is very limited space left at the "movers and shakers"' table, so you better fight and backstab each other for those limited seats. We've seen it over and over again how

- ballbusting women rise to the so called top for being more ruthless than some of the men.

- closet cases working against gay people to gain more power and favor with t heir conservative peers.

But times are changing. These straight, white men no longer own the world and they have to answer for something they considered their right to do, like grabbing pussies at the work place.

#metoo is one of the most obvious signs that women come out in solidarity of other women being harassed at work. That these aren't just some minor, single incidents people should forget about, accept as part of work, and let the men get away with them

Times are indeed changing and straight, white men are horrified that they are no longer superior, untouchable and have to face the consequences of their actions. Something they thought was their (God given) birthright.

R339, POC with a chip on shoulder.

Let's change locations & apply your victim, underachieving logic.

We're in Mainland China. Try your argument now.

White people are TIRED of taking responsibility for your general slacker nature. Stop trying to punish caucasians because they're movers and shakers. Males will be males even in insect form.

Check out r339 post history... oh boy. When will the TERFs fuck off? They hate us anyway, why do they remain here, she's actually pretendind to be a gay man in few threads too to defend the poor oppressed wahmenz.

341, what's a TERF?

[quote] We're in Mainland China. Try your argument now.

Given we're discussing American workplace culture, what sense would that make? Of course things are different in China. And sugar lump, everyone else in the US is TIRED of being expected to prop up straight white American men and make sure they never have to face their flaws or pay the consequences of their bad behavior.

r340 is a good example why these douchebags are fighting a losing battle. Dismissive (POC) and attempts of what-about-ism deflection.

I did check R341. Know this member going back years. We agree on almost every topic here..forget it when we merge on murder case threads. Like we're IMing each other amd no one else exists But we always lock horns re: race

I refer to this friend as my Black Parrot #2 because she often times "borrows" my persona & style.

Non, notre Perrouquet Noir. China or any asian majority nation. We're discussing males and females in the workplace. This is universal.

R343, i'm gonna drown you here, Clementine

Dismissive (POC)? You're banging on about WHITE men. Why not just all men the world over? Why not male lions? Why is it WHITE men with you?

[quote] And sugar lump, everyone else in the US is TIRED of being expected to prop up straight white American men and make sure they never have to face their flaws or pay the consequences of their bad behavior.

Talk about fighting a losing battle. You sound totally unhinged. You want a majority to take responsibility for the actions of a relative few? Are you one of those people who argue that a homeless white man is still more advantaged than a rich POC? You sound like the type.

Thank you, R348. Often times you'll see me refer to these racist black women as "The Racial Preoccupation Troll".

It's a result of them belonging to the least desired demographic on the entire planet. Hence the dark envy as the motivation.

[quote] You want a majority to take responsibility for the actions of a relative few?

I don't think your relative few appreciate you throwing them under the bus, "bro".

R348, actually she did start a thread exactly on this premise back in November. The personal feeling of rejection about her lot in life burns through her soul. Martyr to an empty cause. Throwing whites and asians under the bus is her online obsession. She desperately needs OCD meds and therapy. These POC with their warped mindsets are a societal menace IRL. They target random white children on mall balconies. They stab joggers in DC. Targeting and killing random elderly whites on public transportation. Then there's our subway platform black killers here in NY shoving whites and asians to their deaths into oncoming trains.

That's why I authored the Black On White Crime thread. Estranged LSA black women try to bury it.

They limp away with their tales between their legs when going head to head with me. They never win. Yet they admire me because they feign my persona & coin my terms when trolling innocents here. They're sick

Jussie Smollet gave innocent non blacks a big ole heads up. Dividing the only people we've got who have our backs- Fellow Americans

Wie schade

See? The nonsense of R350. That's the best they've got. They know they're gonna drown themselves in the deep end as I watch their last air bubbles rise to the surface while perched on diving board. French martini in one hand, Marlboro Red in the other.

Have these men, who are uncomfortable around women, considered starting, or joining, a support group?

I'm Response 130 in this thread as well as the author/op of said thread. I also proposed the tactic of "Panther Moms". 🐱

We're not the enemy here

R348 r349 You know you can just make your point without pretending to be another poster agreeing with yourself don't you? You are a sad old drunk . And no one really cares about your pro Stormfront views that you bring up in every single thread. You know, the ones where you argue vehemently with imaginary Asians and "foreigners ".

Whoops I meant my reply for r349 not r348

[quote]Talk about fighting a losing battle. You sound totally unhinged.

I don't at all, actually. That's become just a thing to say on Datalounge when you have no argument to make.

[quote]You want a majority to take responsibility for the actions of a relative few?

Where did I say that? I want the relative few to pay the consequences of their actions, but now that that's begun to happen, some people are freaking out because it's making innocent men "uncomfortable" in the workplace—and for some people., whether or not they're conscious of thinking it, making men feel uncomfortable is a sin worse than sexually assaulting women. That's really the bottom line for the misogynists and cunt-callers in this thread—men feeling uncomfortable when they didn't even do anything is a a tragedy of epic proportions,, and women ought to STFU about inappropriate and even illegal behavior in the workplace, lest some poor innocent guy feel nervous or resent that he now has to give a few seconds' thought to how he treats women at work.

[quote] Are you one of those people who argue that a homeless white man is still more advantaged than a rich POC?

No, I am not, nor does the concept of "white privilege" dictate that all white people are more advantaged or have better lives than all POC.

[quote] [R348] [R349] You know you can just make your point without pretending to be another poster agreeing with yourself don't you?

I am r348 (and r357) but I am decidedly not the Stormfront loon at r349 who thinks he's some avenging hero of DL and that we all recognize and admire his delusional posts. I assume that dude is posting from a mental institution, or if he's not he should be; either way, I do not consider his posts worthy of any attention.

R358 Whoops, my bad. I just assumed because this poster has a habit of agreeing with himself. He brings up insane pro Nazi screeds on every thread. I realized when I checked the history I made a mistake. See r356.

NP, r355. Thanks for acknowledging the error. No doubt that poster is a "talks to self"-er.

This thread is a fantastic example of why women should not be in a leadership role in large organizations.

Too emotional and imbalanced to perform effectively at high levels.

I love idiot men who accuse women of being too emotional while losing their entire shit over the Me, Too movement and becoming apoplectic at the thought that other poor, wittle men might be feewing "uncomfortable" at work. I also love idiots who think they can discern the gender of everyone who posts on anonymous message board.

"I'm literally crying right now..."

Interesting.