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Years and Years: ‘It’s ambitious but has pulled it off. It’s amazing’

Creatively speaking, predicting the near future only feels like a fun project when it isn’t you who has to do it. I’ve done it loads, normally as satire, and it never ages well. Within a startlingly short period, all of your insights are either inane or insane, or not even funny now they’re no longer bleeding-edge counterfactual, but just plain wrong.

Consider, for example, Back to the Future Part II, which was made in 1989 and set in a 2015, where everybody had a fax machine in their bathroom, and a hoverboard, and wore a double tie. Eh? Closer to home, I once wrote what I thought was a quite good tale about a 2019 military coup at a music festival, which centred on a character who was a bit like George Osborne finally having had enough of playing second fiddle to one who was a bit like David Cameron. What can I say? The future ain’t what it used to be.

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by Anonymousreply 16006/29/2020

This is what makes Years and Years, Russell T Davies’s new drama, such an ambitious idea. Too ambitious, really. It starts now, then it goes five years into the future. Over six parts, it then goes ten years into the future, and then fifteen. Encompassing not just social change, but politics and geopolitics too, it had a roughly one-in-a-million chance of not being so cringe-makingly awful that you’d want to hoverboard into your bathroom and fax yourself into the sun. But you know what? It pulled it off. It’s amazing.

Or at least, the first episode is. Let’s not get carried away. It’s based around a family in Manchester. Russell Tovey plays Daniel, who works in housing for the council and has an unsatisfactory husband. One sister, Ruth Madeley’s Rosie, is a single mum, while the other, Edith (Jessica Hynes), is some manner of inspirational political figure. Steve, the older brother played by Rory Kinnear, has a wife (T’Nia Miller) who is not liked by the four’s elderly grandmother, Muriel (Anne Reid), not openly because she’s black, but come on, really. And, altogether, they step forward into 2024.

Here, Manchester has a growing population of Ukrainian refugees after a Russian invasion. Gay people, particularly, have fled. Teenagers no longer just hide behind their phones, but now have holographic face masks that confront their parents with the cutesy hideousness of Snapchat filters even at the breakfast table. “You can’t enter Kensington without being means-tested,” one character muses to another. Trump is back in again, obviously, and war looms with China. We meet Emma Thompson’s brilliantly observed Vivienne Rook in 2019 as a proudly know-nothing right-wing populist (think Nigel Farage meets Katie Hopkins, but only if you’re fortunate not to know about the actual Andrea Jenkyns). Rook has risen from being a novelty who says “f***” on Question Time to a significant reactionary political force.

by Anonymousreply 105/18/2019

The politics of all this may not sound terribly subtle, and Davies is indeed what we used to call “right-on”. None of his characters, though, is remotely one-dimensional. Daniel’s husband, Ralph, is a budding conspiracy theorist, enamoured with the anti-intellectualism of Jenkyns, sorry Hopkins, sorry Rook. Rosie has a keen occasional sex life and is completely irrelevantly in a wheelchair most of the time, for reasons the narrative deals with so lightly that I didn’t spot mention of them at all. Quietly, it’s revolutionary.

The satire here clodhops sometimes, but forgivably and probably deliberately too, with a tongue firmly in a cheek, which itself is cheek-by-jowl with big drama and big messages. Davies, as you probably know, once brought us Queer As Folk, then brought back Doctor Who, then gave us the Banana/Cucumber mix, then did last year’s A Very English Scandal. In a way, all of his work has been statementy state-of-the-nation stuff, even Doctor Who, but it has never been as broad, polished and ambitious as this. I suppose it might all go to pot in future episodes, but if it doesn’t? Maybe something to look forward to in five, ten or even fifteen years’ time will be whatever he’s making then.

The Virtues, on Channel 4, is also quite state-of-the-nation, but in a wholly different way. After seeing Stephen Graham so wasted in Line of Duty, it’s quite something to watch him completely dominate this, in a reminder of everything he can do and how well he does it. Made by Shane Meadows, best known for the various This is England dramas, it’s the four-part story of a man who struggles with alcoholism and heartbreak when his former partner moves with their son and her new man to Australia. Which sounds pretty bleak on the page, I’ll grant you, but Meadows is brilliant at marrying bleakness with something bigger, extracting a sort of brittle and breathtaking human dignity from situations you expect to have almost none.

That said, his intense realism can sometimes be a little too listless to bear, but the drama here is surreptitiously tight too. Graham’s character, Joseph, doesn’t blame his ex for going and tries, and fails, to mask his own despair. At least half of this first episode and maybe more is about the bender he goes on the night before they leave. At first he’s in the pub alone, then he’s befriending everyone, then it all starts to go wrong. Going right back to the very first This is England, Meadows and Graham have a history of scenes like this, where good cheer devolves into mania, and you can feel the succubus fingers of danger and disgrace pulling at their character’s ankles. Nothing quite so dramatic happens here, but you hold your breath watching all the same, knowing how quickly it could.

by Anonymousreply 205/18/2019

Trailer.

Premieres June 24 on HBO.

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by Anonymousreply 305/18/2019

more brit shit. we dont want it.

by Anonymousreply 405/18/2019

Tedious.

by Anonymousreply 505/18/2019

Rory Kinnear is such a fantastic actor. He was phenomenal in Penny Dreadful and Black Mirror pig episode.

by Anonymousreply 605/18/2019

*Spoilers* !!!

I really liked it and I'm already exited for next week's episode. It was also great that they use real politicians and countries. Trump is president, England has a new king, Merkel is dead... Usually they use fake presidents and countries so this felt real. I did not like that the gay character cheated on his husband right away. The new relationship with the Ukrainian refugee seemed a bit rushed and they did not really explore their marital problems a lot (husband spends too much time on his smartphone and likes conspiracy theories - no need to cheat on your husband with the next best guy) or why Daniel was suddenly so attracted to Victor. He even abandoned his husband and family to run off and fuck a man he hardly knew while the world was supposedly ending. Who does that? The first 40mins were a bit slow, but the last 10mins were amazing.

by Anonymousreply 705/19/2019

It feels very Black Mirror. But then Black Mirror has pretty much defined these type of syfy shows.

by Anonymousreply 805/19/2019

Sorry, didn't think it was bad, but I don't want to watch it. Too depressing. As soon as they announced Trump was realected, I wanted to turn it off.

by Anonymousreply 905/19/2019

R9 Trump is reelected in 2020 and then they skip to 2024 immediately. So you don't have to hear about him (not sure if it was still him who dropped the bomb on China or already the next president 🤔). Emma Thompson's character is the British, female equivalent of Trump - with better hair - though.

by Anonymousreply 1005/19/2019

Yes, he's the one who drops the bomb. Right before his term is over. The way the world is going right now, I don't need to watch this right now. One episode was enough.

by Anonymousreply 1105/19/2019

I think the next episodes will probably focus more on environmental stuff and technical advancements, which should be quite interesting. They already mentioned that there are no more butterflies and a lot of tsunamis, so I expect some environmental disasters and some cool new technologies in the future. From the previews, the next episode will probably deal with the aftermath of the nuclear crisis and some civil unrest first though.

I wonder how Tovey's character will explain his husband why he left him behind in the middle of a national crisis next episode. That should be interesting conversation.

by Anonymousreply 1205/19/2019

Damn, my new favorite drama is tanking pretty hard on the BBC. Only 1.5 million viewers last night. Really, really bad for a BBC1 primetime show. Anyone else still watching and enjoying it besides these abysmal numbers?

Are people sick of politics, the Brexit drama, climate change and all that and just want to enjoy some light drama after work? The reviews and feedback were so good, it has strong gay characters and lots of gay sex and even the gays here on DL are not watching it.

by Anonymousreply 1305/22/2019

[Quote]even the gays here on DL are not watching it.

This is a primarily American board and it isn't airing on American television yet.

by Anonymousreply 1405/22/2019

R14 Lots of Brits and international guests here too and still not much interest. I wonder though if the fact that the sex scenes in there are exclusively between the gay characters is still a problem for the bbc audience....even in 2019.

by Anonymousreply 1505/22/2019

Did they really nuke an island?

by Anonymousreply 1605/24/2019

It's excruciatingly bad.

Rory Kinnear is wasted in this shit.

by Anonymousreply 1705/24/2019

They're too common for me. All contemporary British TV stuff is. I occasionally give shit like this a try and then turn it off when I hear the accents.

by Anonymousreply 1805/24/2019

The second episode is pretty depressing as well. I mean, “President Pence”? Really?

by Anonymousreply 1905/24/2019

I'm enjoying it but fear for the sweet Viktor character. His vibe reminds me of Lance in Cucumber. The Guardian gave it a rare 5* review.

by Anonymousreply 2005/24/2019

R18 = Jacob Rees-Mogg

by Anonymousreply 2105/24/2019

R15, my mum says my dad asked her to fast-forward through the sex scenes! I think it's too much for most straight people over 50.

by Anonymousreply 2205/24/2019

I'm still enjoying the show, although the hype around it seems to have disappeared.

I have to admit it makes me uncomfortable because I can absolutely see how someone like Viv Rook could become prime minister. The day AFTER the EU referendum, one of the top Google searches in the UK was "What is the EU?" (yes, the day AFTER). When I heard that, a dark part of me did wonder if we should bring in some kind of test before allowing people to vote,

by Anonymousreply 2305/29/2019

Unfortunately it dropped even further in the ratings this week. Only 1.3m viewers which is pretty bad for a primetime BBC1 drama at 9PM. There was so much hype around this show and people who had seen it in previews and all the reviewers really loved it so it really surprises me that it is doing so poorly in ratings. It also worries me because it has a very prominent gay storyline and an openly gay actor/character front and center. I really hope that won't affect future gay projects and storylines and people just did not like that the show is so close to reality. I also feel sorry for Tovey bc he is such a great actor and I hope this won't affect is career and he will still get lots of work. He exclusively played gay characters the last couple of years and I hope he isn't already typecast as an "gay actor". Looking, Banished and Quantico also flopped and I was really hoping Y&Y would be a huge success and help his career.

by Anonymousreply 2405/29/2019

Is the gay relationship in the show still happening past the first couple of eps? If that doesn't carry forward it's just a bunch of dreary subplots and supporting characters.

by Anonymousreply 2505/29/2019

It's embarrassingly bad.

by Anonymousreply 2605/29/2019

R26 What exactly do you find so bad? The show is definitely not for everyone and different, but "embarrassingly bad" is a weird opinion.

by Anonymousreply 2705/29/2019

Is Tovey playing a gay role? He's too masculine for that.

by Anonymousreply 2805/29/2019

R25, the gay relationship is still ongoing, although the references to Viktor now being in 'socialist Spain' seem ominous to me. That's what Nazi Germany called itself in the mid 30s.

Davies likes to kill his sweetest characters, as we saw with Cucumber's adorable Lance.

by Anonymousreply 2905/29/2019

R29 I think Viktor is safe. 6 episodes on his Imdb page. My colleagues hate the character. He was a refugee and not allowed to work, but everyone was super surprised when he got deported. They probably voted leave and would support fictional Viv lol. Am I the only one who doesn't find Viktor attractive? The ex-husband was way hotter.

by Anonymousreply 3005/29/2019

The actor who plays the ex hubby is also in Cucumber/Banana.

by Anonymousreply 3105/29/2019

Sounds like Concern Troll: The Series

I’ll pass

by Anonymousreply 3205/29/2019

I agree that the Welsh ex-husband was hot. Viktor isn't my type.

by Anonymousreply 3305/30/2019

It's trying to do far too much and it never gives us enough time to get to know or care about the characters. I told my mum that this was the problem I had with it, and she sat down to watch one episode, was quite enjoying the asylum seeker storyline, then gave up when it went onto something completely different then completely different again.

I think I said in another thread that he was so keen to write about as many issues as possible that he forgot to write characters. I got jumped on in that thread by someone who had completely misunderstood my point and thought I was a right-wing nut, bless them. But yeah, if he'd just pared it back a bit and given everything a bit more breathing space that would have helped.

by Anonymousreply 3405/31/2019

[quote]I think I said in another thread that he was so keen to write about as many issues as possible that he forgot to write characters. I got jumped on in that thread by someone who had completely misunderstood my point and thought I was a right-wing nut

Those gurls never stop. They just REACT all over the place before thinking. Lumping everyone into a box - left and right. They're simple minded and can only see the world in simple terms...with a "fuck" and a "cunt" thrown in - to make them sound "butch".

by Anonymousreply 3505/31/2019

[quote]Unfortunately it dropped even further in the ratings this week.

I watched a few extended clips, and couldn't bare to watch more. It seemed to exhausting and cut-jumpy. If you're going to do something like that, you need it to breathe. Also tired of dramas where characters merely exist to embody a bundle of tick-off issues. Maybe that's not it at all, but that's sure what it was telegraphing.

by Anonymousreply 3605/31/2019

The was a One Million Mom troll in the "What are the current TV shows with gay characters" who bashed both The Red Line and Years and Years for being too woke. Then had to come up with some bullshit backstory that she's some British liberal (who apparently is not against torrenting a show like Red Line which has not yet aired in the UK yet). Made an utter fool of himself with each new post.

by Anonymousreply 3705/31/2019

Oh my gosh R37, I can't believe you've followed me into this thread, you're like a dog with a bone. Other people in that thread tried to point out to you how irrational and obsessive you were being, you were just creating scenarios in your head. Let it go, it's done.

by Anonymousreply 3805/31/2019

R37, R38 You guys are even more entertaining than the show.

by Anonymousreply 3905/31/2019

Haha thanks R39, that made me laugh. I suppose at least we have something of a coherent narrative and a backstory?

by Anonymousreply 4005/31/2019

^^ between us I mean, not the 'bullshit backstory' that I apparently made up, lol.

by Anonymousreply 4105/31/2019

[quote] it dropped even further in the ratings this week. Only 1.3m viewers which is pretty bad for a primetime BBC1 drama at 9PM.

Ratings don't mean much to the BBC. Every television owner MUST pay a license fee to subsidize the network, so they get their paychecks regardless.

[quote] I really hope that won't affect future gay projects and storylines and people just did not like that the show is so close to reality. I also feel sorry for Tovey bc he is such a great actor and I hope this won't affect is career and he will still get lots of work.

Don't worry. The BBC diversity commissars will look after him.

[quote] Also tired of dramas where characters merely exist to embody a bundle of tick-off issues.

But then without the checklist you wouldn't have Emma. It's a small price to pay.

by Anonymousreply 4205/31/2019

I have to admit, as much I enjoy the show, it's almost like they went through a laundry list of diversity requirements when creating the Lyons family. One son with a black wife, one gay son with a Ukrainian refugee boyfriend, one happily single and childfree daughter, and one daughter with spina bifida. (Plus three of the four grandchildren are biracial.) I'm not even complaining - all the actors play their roles well, and there probably are families like that out there. I just think it's kind of funny how careful they were to tick every possible box.

by Anonymousreply 4305/31/2019

Are you new, R43?

by Anonymousreply 4405/31/2019

[quote] I just think it's kind of funny how careful they were to tick every possible box.

I noticed this immediately too. It's not funny...it's annoying. People just aren't like this. Most people tend to be with people WHO ARE LIKE THEMSELVES. It's just how humans are.

Didn't ALAN BALL also create a series that had all the diversity boxes ticked as well? They just don't work these things.

by Anonymousreply 4505/31/2019

[quote]Are you new, [R43]?

New to what? and what's your point?

by Anonymousreply 4605/31/2019

New to pop culture fare

The box ticking is at least a quarter century old

by Anonymousreply 4705/31/2019

R43 You forgot the trans daughter. Transhuman but still trans. I agree and it annoys me too. It's like every show now needs at least one gay, biracial, black or Chinese/Latino character. White men usually all have a black friend etc. The same with all the US shows. I think the Breaking Bad (???) creator got a lot of criticism because people thought his show was not diverse enough and he said he wanted the show to be realistic and that is just how it is in most American states.

by Anonymousreply 4805/31/2019

[quote] The box ticking is at least a quarter century old

Not to this extent! It used to be more along the lines of including a few token BAME friends. Creating a large family in which almost every member ticks a diversity box is unusual.

by Anonymousreply 4905/31/2019

Going by the trailer it looks incredibly pretentious.

by Anonymousreply 5005/31/2019

R49 I stopped watching THIS IS US because of that. Every episode felt like a quota was being filled. Took me right out of the drama. I understand wanting to be diverse/inclusive, but it doesn't apply to every situation. That's black-and-white thinking and short-sighted. If you didn't watch the news, you'd think that the US was a multicultural utopia where everyone has multiracial friends/co-workers/neighbors/family. In fact, we're still a very segregated nation with a race problem. But Hollywood would prefer to bury its head in the sand and pat itself on the back.

by Anonymousreply 5105/31/2019

It feels like we've entered a new Hays Code era, where they dictate what can and can't be shown/said on screen.

by Anonymousreply 5205/31/2019

R51, it just comes across as so fucking self-congratulatory. Like “look how accepting and how far we’ve come.” But we absolutely haven’t.

by Anonymousreply 5305/31/2019

I actually like it. Yes the box ticking is a bit tired but then Russell T Davies writes something amazing like the pub scene after the funeral and I love it again. Overall its a ballsy show and really putting its politics out there. And Im not even a Tovey fan.

by Anonymousreply 5405/31/2019

Watched ep 3 today and I have to admit that the constant news watching, the family gatherings every episode, the family telephone/video conferences and the characters explaining us the storyline is getting on my nerves. The first episode really had my attention, episode 2 was still good but ep 3 I found myself checking my phone constantly, going to fridge and finally interrupting it several times because I was bored. Also did not care much about the Viktor/Daniel drama.

by Anonymousreply 5506/01/2019

I found Daniel's shock/explanation to his family that the communist run government was meant to help people not hurt them a bit odd considering he must know something about the oppressive history of the communist soviet era? I mean someone like him would presumably know a lot about it? I expect that was for the audience's benefit but it just made him sound weirdly naive.

Before anyone jumps on me (again) I'm not some pro-deregulation capitalist cheerleader, I just had family who lived in Czechoslovakia during that era and were interrogated by the StB for fraternising with Westerners, and have learned too much about oppression in that country and elsewhere to have any illusions about communist governments either. And before anyone jumps on me for THAT as well - I know this isn't proper communism in the sense conceived of by Marx but it is the communism that we have had.

You've really got to cover all your basis in DL-land I've learned, and even then you may well be jumped on.

by Anonymousreply 5606/01/2019

Why does the grandmother love the gay refugee but hate the black wife?

by Anonymousreply 5706/02/2019

To be fair the wife doesn't like her so she's probably picked up on that. She was making snide remarks about her, and about traveling so far to see her, when they pulled up at the house in one episode. The gay asylum seeker is probably just nicer to her.

by Anonymousreply 5806/02/2019

*Spoiler*

Damn, they killed off Danny. The last 10mins were horrific and I'm heartbroken.

Years and Years is currently trending on Twitter, but Love Island is on at the same time so I hope the ratings won't drop even further this week.

by Anonymousreply 5906/04/2019

I know. Crushing. I was concerned about Viktor yet it ended up Danny. Russell T Davies says more about it here

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by Anonymousreply 6006/04/2019

Fuck that was sad.

by Anonymousreply 6106/04/2019

When they showed the bodies on the beach, I had a strange feeling one of them would be Daniel. Then I thought, "Nah, they won't do that, he's effectively the main character." And then they showed him.

I'm disappointed they killed him. I know there are only a couple of episodes left, but he was the most watchable character.

by Anonymousreply 6206/04/2019

Will they show him in flashbacks the next two episodes? Tovey's Imdb page says he is in all 6 episodes. At least now that they've killed off my favorite character I no longer care about a second season or the remaining episodes, but the show wasn't a success anyway and it probably wouldn't have happened anyway.

I wonder if we see Dino again next episode and he will realize that his petty actions ultimately killed his ex-husband.

by Anonymousreply 6306/04/2019

IMDb isn't always accurate, R63, although I do suspect we will see more of Daniel in flashbacks. Of the two, I would rather they had killed Viktor, although I suppose that would have been too predictable.

by Anonymousreply 6406/04/2019

Daniel's death was so upsetting and unexpected, but Davies loves to kill off endearing characters (like Lance in Cucumber). Daniel's drowned body looked scarily realistic washed up on the sand. I was surprised that Viktor managed to escape from the detention centre.

by Anonymousreply 6506/04/2019

The series is definitely a critical success if not a ratings success. The Guardian gave it a rare 5* review and all the other broadsheets raved about it too.

by Anonymousreply 6606/04/2019

Last nights ratings. Glad they did not lose more viewers, but still embarrassing that a documentary on BBC2 had more viewers.

BBC1 – Years & Years 1.3m (6.8%) BBC2 – The Planets 2.0m (11.0%)

by Anonymousreply 6706/05/2019

Did anyone else notice that Daniel's passport was burgundy, not blue? So in this timeline, the UK still hasn't left the EU by 2027. Or we left and then returned reasonably soon after. Neither of those scenarios seem far-fetched, to be frank.

by Anonymousreply 6806/05/2019

I try not to be snobby about other people's viewing habits, because God knows I've watched my share of trash over the years, but it's depressing that Love Island gets much higher ratings than this show.

by Anonymousreply 6906/05/2019

Love Island has hot guys, R69.

by Anonymousreply 7006/05/2019

[quote]Will they show him in flashbacks the next two episodes?

Knowing Russell T. Davies, they'll have him appear as a hologram on the niece's torso.

by Anonymousreply 7106/05/2019

Actually, I take back what I said about the passport. Steven said that the UK had indeed left the EU earlier in the episode while talking about the drug trials.

by Anonymousreply 7206/05/2019

[quote]The series is definitely a critical success if not a ratings success. The Guardian gave it a rare 5* review and all the other broadsheets raved about it too.

The only opinion that matters is what Liz thinks of it. Maybe she can put in a good word and get that half-breed granddaughter-in-law a job on the sequel.

by Anonymousreply 7306/05/2019

I just saw it here in the U.K. last night, but just one episode and think I'm hooked. I now have to watch from the beginning. Very difficult to sit through because you know that some of the crazy things we have been seeing could easily happen as it unfolds in this series.

by Anonymousreply 7406/05/2019

What's up with that fucking suitcase? When you're on the run, who wags around a suitcase?

What's up with Danny being such a wuss? "I'm not paying you until I see the passport (boat). Ok, I give in and give you all my money." An American would have pulled out a gun and shot that snotty French bitch right between the eyes.

by Anonymousreply 7506/06/2019

I laughed in the first episode when they got the 4 minute warning and everyone ran off and left the woman in the wheelchair to fend for herself.

by Anonymousreply 7606/06/2019

At that point he believed she was going to go and get the passports so what good would shooting her between the eyes have done anyway R75? The American who would have done that would have been pretty damn stupid. Sure, they were then swindled but they didn't know that was going to happen. Don't be so silly.

by Anonymousreply 7706/06/2019

[quote]Sure, they were then swindled but they didn't know that was going to happen.

Of course they were being swindled. They were dealing with the French. I don't do deals with the French. They are all stupid froggy snails.

by Anonymousreply 7806/06/2019

At that point he still had 8,000 Euro in cash. Why didn't he just buy or rent a proper boat to get them both safely over the channel? He said it's only 25 miles so 8,000 should be enough to buy a good boat or ask a French fisherman for help. Instead he gave 3000 to a shady human trafficker.

....forgot, dumb TV drama and characters always make the worst possible decisions.

by Anonymousreply 7906/06/2019

The bit in the last episode when the daughter asked her father what colour his mistress was didn't make much sense at all.

by Anonymousreply 8006/06/2019

God you're right R79. He would have had under 8,000 because there was the cost of the place they were staying and having to give a few hundred to the coach driver but still enough to buy some kind of boat I would have thought or to pay someone independently. Although the latter would have risked them being reported to the authorities and in paying the traffickers they probably thought they were going to be in a proper seaworthy boat with someone who knew how to get them safely across the channel, so I can see the logic of it.

by Anonymousreply 8106/06/2019

He could easily report his passport stolen and get a new one from his embassy. He was a legal citizen without a record. With that just rent a speedboat for a day or two and say you want to go fishing. Drop Viktor off near the English coast and return the boat. With only 25 miles and GPS you don't even need any skills on a normal sunny day. He also had enough money to get a boat even without a driver's license. Most refugees don't have proper documents and resources for that so a trafficker is their only option. Daniel definitely had other options but I guess the point was to show this scenario on prime time television.

The radiotimes article said Tovey had a contract for all 6 episodes, but RTD decided to kill him off while they were already shooting. I hope he at least got paid for all 6 episodes. Not sure if I will continue watching if Tovey doesn't appear in more episodes. I'm not really interested in the other siblings and their storylines. The older sister and her lesbian girlfriend will be the main characters in episode 5 and 6. Don't care much about them.

by Anonymousreply 8206/06/2019

Yeah you're right R82. On the one hand I thought it was really effective and important to show how awful and precarious and terrifying that kind of journey is for asylum seekers and it was very clever of RTD to use a (sympathetic) white, British character with whom we had already identified to involve us in that and to really hit home. So I'm glad that he did it - letting the issues work through the characters rather than the other way round (as I talked about above).

However, the suggestion you made is much more sensible - it seemed like Danny too quickly put himself in the unnecessary position of being like an asylum seeker, which he wasn't, when they clearly should have found another way to use his citizenship to get them across.

by Anonymousreply 8306/06/2019

[quote]The bit in the last episode when the daughter asked her father what colour his mistress was didn't make much sense at all.

Yes, especially because up to that point, the daughter's entire focus had been on "digitizing" herself. She never showed any sign that she cared about physical appearance.

by Anonymousreply 8406/06/2019

There's too much in this story. Both brothers have failed marriages. What is RTD trying to say about white British men?

And why do the gays always have to suffer? The death of the tragic gay is a tired trope. Why didn't RTD show a happy gay male couple?

by Anonymousreply 8506/06/2019

I really don't like the wife of the other brother - the accountant. All she seems to do is make negative remarks about/to her husband's grandmother, worry about her daughter, and just be generally miserable. I don't understand the point of the character, are we supposed to like her? sympathise with her? I feel like maybe her tension with the grandmother is meant to show that the older generation don't quite 'get it' (whatever 'it' happens to be in the context), but it's unfortunate because grandma is very sympathetic and she's unlikable. Maybe that's the point? I don't know.

To be fair I tend to only half watch a lot of scenes so maybe I missed her doing something great.

by Anonymousreply 8606/06/2019

[quote]I don't understand the point of the character

The point is that black women can be bald and wear huge earrings.

by Anonymousreply 8706/06/2019

Here's the Radio Times article mentioned by R82. There are some mild spoilers for the remaining episodes.

I agree that Celeste isn't particularly likeable, but the actress who plays her is great.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 8806/06/2019

They better show the refugee's ass before the last episode or it won't be worth the time I invested.

by Anonymousreply 8906/06/2019

Well, his bare chest was not very impressive. Don't think his ass will be better.

by Anonymousreply 9006/06/2019

[quote]Well, his bare chest was not very impressive. Don't think his ass will be better.

It's better than seeing Tovey's pasty white Brit body. Let's face it, there aren't many lookers in this cast.

by Anonymousreply 9106/06/2019

The snitching ex-husband really has the nerve to show up in episode 5 and sob at his ex's grave.

by Anonymousreply 9206/10/2019

Although I enjoyed tonight's episode, it did confirm for me that killing off Daniel was a mistake. It feels like there's a hole at the centre of the series now.

You just know the granny's eye transplant is going to have some horrible long-term effect.

by Anonymousreply 9306/11/2019

Is Emma Thompson's role major and prominent? I really can't stand her.

by Anonymousreply 9406/11/2019

^ She's an important character but doesn't get that much screen time. She plays the part well.

by Anonymousreply 9506/11/2019

I thought they threw it in there to show that not all futuristic tech is bad R93 like one of the previous episodes where the baby was cured of spina bifida.

by Anonymousreply 9606/11/2019

Terrible show with too much self-masturbating plot lines aiming for modern "progressive" critics. No wonder the critics like it while the regular citizens in UK don't want any of it.

by Anonymousreply 9706/11/2019

The gay characters and storylines were interesting but I do not really care about the rest of the family members. The show was probably also low budget bc all the action always takes place "on the news" but you never see anything interesting on screen. It's just a bunch of family members gathering for family dinners or sittibg in front of their televisions discussing stuff via telephone all the time. And how weird to kill off your main character after only 4 episodes. It was shocking for 5 min but I'm also not watching the rest of the episodes now. Why do they also always kill off the gay characters? Did they really had to kill off the gay character and the only healthy relationship on this show?

by Anonymousreply 9806/12/2019

Edith is now officially Fran's girlfriend, R98, so there is still a same-sex couple on the show (although they're boring and we've barely seen them together).

I reckon the gran's eyes have, unbeknownst to her, been fitted with secret cameras (like Bethany's) and the government is using them to spy on the family.

by Anonymousreply 9906/12/2019

I would like it if, in tomorrow's episode, Lincoln accepts himself as a boy who doesn't fit stereotypes. But I have a feeling he will end "transitioning" and deciding to be called Lynn (which they joked about in the first episode).

by Anonymousreply 10006/17/2019

I think they are presuming that the refugee boats know the best places to go ashore on the UK- this is the case and payments adn bribes are usually made. Just because this wasnt referenced doesnt mean it didnt happen. Also Daniel did not want to leave Viktor to do the journey himself! he was desperate. I also feel other criticisms- like the daughter asking what colour she is is totally relevant. I really feel this is a show where not everything is spelt out but it is still logical. Bizarre some of the things you are picking out. The show is great. You people are no fun. Literally no one I know has picked the same "holes" you have here.

by Anonymousreply 10106/17/2019

What a fittingly shitty end to a mostly shitty series.

by Anonymousreply 10206/18/2019

I liked the series for the most part, R102. I just wish they hadn't killed Daniel in the fourth episode, it went downhill after that.

Muriel's monologue went on for waaay too long. What she said was true, but it was self-indulgent on the part of the writers. I was disappointed that we never found out who was pulling Rook's strings. I know that they deliberately left it ambiguous, but I would have preferred to know.

The ending creeped me out.

by Anonymousreply 10306/18/2019

enjoyed it!

by Anonymousreply 10406/19/2019

Is it just me or did Viktor never seem as devoted to Daniel as Daniel was to him? Daniel gave up so much for Viktor - even, eventually, his own life - and we never saw much of Viktor grieving for him. Yes, there was a lot to pack into six episodes, but still - we saw far more of Steven's grief than Viktor's.

by Anonymousreply 10506/19/2019

Just saw clip of grandmother saying “ it’s all our fault” that automated check-outs have replaced humans. What a fucking pretentious, simplistic piece of shit writing. Really? It’s “all our fault”? Fuck you, Russell T. Davies, UK chapter of the writers division of the Fucking Lucky Club.

by Anonymousreply 10606/22/2019

Bump

by Anonymousreply 10706/24/2019

I thought the whole thing was bloody brilliant and the best thing I've seen on the BBC in absolutely ages...it made me laugh and cry several times throughout the 6 episodes and it was so plausible as to be one of the scariest things I've ever seen. A wake up call.

by Anonymousreply 10806/28/2019

Thompson slays, though

by Anonymousreply 10906/28/2019

i don't really get the story. is there a story?

by Anonymousreply 11006/29/2019

I'm not British but I've binged watched this show and it was the most fantastic piece of drama I've seen in a long time. It got me glued to the screen and I've never ever watched something that was so terryfying close to reality yet futuristic as this one. To the moron saying the lady's speech is stupid, well, the show has many layers and many different characters of this family grapple with politics and the world in a different way. Some are completly stupid, others are politically engaged, others are cattle following the masses.

This is a show about politics but from the perspective of the common folk. I loved it. It's spot on on how politics have taken our social life like never in recent history. It's also great to watch a show with a gay protagonist where his being gay is not the plot of the story.

by Anonymousreply 11107/01/2019

[quote]The bit in the last episode when the daughter asked her father what colour his mistress was didn't make much sense at all.

If you ever dated someone from another race or had mixed children, which of course the whitey average DLers does not, you would understand how realistically it was for the daughter to ask the mistress race. The show has lots of layers you don't get it, because you're just a bunch of boring old white folk.

by Anonymousreply 11207/01/2019

[quote] The show was probably also low budget bc all the action always takes place "on the news" but you never see anything interesting on screen.

Fair enough but the whole point of this series was to show how politics is affecting our daily lives and that was done to perfection. I really loved this series. It's umbelievable how Americans have an unresolved racial problem. They can't just watch a show about a diverse family, something that exists in reality and simply take it in and enjoy it.

It is very right wing to worry or whine about diversity in a show. I know lots of diverse and mixed families, what's so spetacular about it anyway that you're so annoyed by? I don't get it. I think that you all have a very deep racial problem you haven't dealt with. That coming from a white person.

by Anonymousreply 11307/01/2019

It's only on second episode here in the US, and thanks for nothing to the assholes who spoiled Tovey's character's death already. But I don't even know if I'll get that far, it's pretty tedious and I don't really care about any of the characters.

That grandma is supposed to be, what, 96? Not very believable.

by Anonymousreply 11407/03/2019

Its a 9 show that became a 7 at best. Disappointing, but I like some things it brings.

However, R106, while I also hate that speech, I think it included that 'all' means literally everyone. At the start, the family was at minimum upper-middle-class on average, with members influential to some extent in politics, culture, and business, and younger members embracing problematic change headfirst, and she wasn't even just talking about her family when she said it was everyone.

That said, it fits an ironically comfortable notion that elite people and elitist power structures don't have to bend all that much to better reform, let alone have to be broken up. That its really just the masses that have to do their little part, instead of the people with most power, presence, and consequence actually being held to proper account. I found it funny that as the show mostly ended on an upbeat note, there's really no sign that any major victory was truly won at all. At least the showrunners were self-aware to that extent.

by Anonymousreply 11507/03/2019

The “trans human” storyline is STOOOOOOOPPIDDDD.

And the hand phone implant is ridiculous. So you have to hold your hand up and fingers out to your face to speak? Much easier to use earbuds or speaker.

Dumb.

by Anonymousreply 11607/03/2019

Seems to have very positive reviews and has an over 80 on RottenTomatoes. I liked the first episode but it may hit a little too close to home. Plus, they seemed obsessed with the US when in reality I don't think Brits really obsess over America.

by Anonymousreply 11707/11/2019

Tovey has a delectable anus.

by Anonymousreply 11807/19/2019

R51, it reflects reality. If you are white, how often do you have a family event without people of color? Nephews, neices, and cousins date and get married so it pretty rare for most of us to have an all-white holiday.

For a long time TV avoided showing anything like real life. It is nice that shows are in a world that is recognizable.

by Anonymousreply 11907/23/2019

R116, I think Bethany wanted the phone implant not because it was practical (it wasn't), but because she was so obsessed with blending technology and humanity, and she saw the implant as a small step towards that.

by Anonymousreply 12007/23/2019

The Bethany sotryline is weak but otherwise I like it a lot. Good acting and direction. The music is heavy handed with the choir, reminds me of the Omen. I could do without it.

by Anonymousreply 12107/30/2019

R121 I agree about the music. I was actually muting each time they started with that. The Bethany storyline was indeed weak.

by Anonymousreply 12207/30/2019

I liked it a lot but I felt that they had painted this grim, dystopian, yet highly realistic picture of where the world might be heading for 5 great, although at times very difficult to watch episodes, only to wrap things up in a very neat, upbeat manner. It assumed that the majority of the people would take the moral high ground and do something about all the horrible stuff that surrounds them and is being done supposedly in their best interest, whereas the reality shows us that the opposite would most likely be the case.

by Anonymousreply 12307/30/2019

I enjoyed it a lot although I think it started out great but then couldn't sustain all the way through episode six. The first several episodes were some of the scariest things ever put on screen, be it films or television. It's been a long time since we've seen something as shocking and upsetting as Danny's death on that beach. The acting was uniformly very good.

by Anonymousreply 12408/02/2019

It’s the rare show that I could see myself rewatching

by Anonymousreply 12508/09/2019

I actually really liked most of it. I fast forwarded through the last 10 minutes..really bad ending. I kept hoping Bethany would die somehow and Victor was an empty vessel. Not sure if the character wasn't developed enough or he was just too pretty? Either way..I didn't care about him. I hated the overwrought music too. Then Viv's direct quoting of Trump and all was a bit of a pander.

by Anonymousreply 12608/13/2019

It had chilling moments, especially the gay refugee storyline which ends in Tovey’s death and felt like it absolutely could be real, even in a first world country, but it fell apart after that shock. The finale was ridiculous.

by Anonymousreply 12708/13/2019

I have only watched episode 1. It's great gay drama. The housing officer is cute and his husband is gorgeous. But that come hither open look on the beautiful Ukrainian. OH MY GOD - this will end in tears for everyone. Having lived such scenarios. Oh, and then there is the bomb.

by Anonymousreply 12808/28/2019

Episode 2, done. This is a good show. However, that's a pity because it seems realistic, and the stories are about insane nightmares - real dystopian shit, and it's put me in a bad mood, and made me anxious. Not very entertaining.

by Anonymousreply 12908/28/2019

It's only going to get much, much worse, R129.

by Anonymousreply 13008/29/2019

R129, yikes!!

by Anonymousreply 13108/30/2019

the acting is simply outstanding. The technophobia is creepily entertaining. The family drama is touchingly done. The operatic score is well, operatic in scope, which is good in a sense. It makes it feel epic or iconic. The politics involved likely turns off some, well, such is life.

by Anonymousreply 13208/30/2019

The technical dystopia is chilling.

And poor puppy-dog bourgeois Tovey, pays the price for being witlessly entitled. The series of escape decisions he makes with his BF are horrifying and naive to me, because I am just as white and entitled and I can't imagine this happening to me and a beloved, but history shows of course anyone can get screwed.

by Anonymousreply 13308/30/2019

Absolutely

by Anonymousreply 13408/30/2019

When I watched it in the UK, I was aware of the writer's propensity for killing off the most lovable character very unexpectedly and violently, as he did in the Channel 4 drama Cucumber with Lance. I really thought that Tovey's adorable Ukrainian boyfriend would be killed, but it turned out that the even more endearing Tovey drowns. His corpse on the beach is shockingly realistic, too.

It all came down to who could swim in rough water and stay buoyant for just 500 metres. I would actually have been fine, as I once got trapped in a forest lake in Croatia at night when I became disorientated and couldn't find the small beach where you got in and out of the water. I swam round for four hours in the pitch black until a Serbian couple rescued me.

by Anonymousreply 13508/30/2019

astounding

by Anonymousreply 13608/30/2019

the father dying of a scratch is hard to fathom

by Anonymousreply 13708/30/2019

The sepsis death is a nightmare about antibiotic failure.

by Anonymousreply 13808/31/2019

That’s possibly the scariest thing in the series

by Anonymousreply 13908/31/2019

That refugee boat off of Rye scene was horrifying (and lifted pretty much from a book by David Mitchell)

by Anonymousreply 14008/31/2019

Who died of sepsis? I don’t remember that (the show is so packed that I think I need to watch again)

by Anonymousreply 14108/31/2019

their estranged dad - the one who left and married another woman and gave his new son his old son's name. I forgot the name. Vincent?

by Anonymousreply 14208/31/2019

Yup. He was hit my a bike but a cut on his hand went septic and he died short of his 70th birthday.

by Anonymousreply 14308/31/2019

Sepsis still kills a lot of people today, and isn't really about antibiotic resistance, as it's the body attacking its own immune system, rather than a bacterial infection.

by Anonymousreply 14408/31/2019

The thing that bothered me the most was the age of the grandmother. Wasn’t she like 98 in the first episode? So 108 by the end of it? And didn’t look a day over 80.

And how selfish of her to spend her family’s inheritance on eye surgery at her advanced age. Bitch you’re gonna be dead soon, deal with the cataracts!

by Anonymousreply 14508/31/2019

Considering that her son died of sepsis it’s a fucked up world indeed

by Anonymousreply 14608/31/2019

Please keep Rory Kinnear on bad TV and away from the National Theatre. He ought to be horsewhipped for his Macbeth.

by Anonymousreply 14708/31/2019

He won an award

by Anonymousreply 14808/31/2019

I enjoyed it

by Anonymousreply 14909/02/2019

[quote]I liked it a lot but I felt that they had painted this grim, dystopian, yet highly realistic picture of where the world might be heading for 5 great, although at times very difficult to watch episodes, only to wrap things up in a very neat, upbeat manner.

The show established that this is how it works.

A few different characters pointed out that prior to the show starting everything was fine. History was letting people take a break from all of the chaos of the past. Emma Thompson's character even pointed out that everything that was happening during the series had happened before in history. They also pointed out that no one ever really learns from history. We got to see the rough period during the series but at the end things go back to "normal" but not before they point out again that there are other "monsters" on the horizon.

In reality we got a break with Obama & a few other leaders before him but now we're submerged in chaos. However, there are few things that Trump has done that hasn't been done before by some other "leader" in history. Even if we get him out of The White House some other person will appear and do the same thing at some other point in history because it always seems to repeat.

[quote] It assumed that the majority of the people would take the moral high ground and do something about all the horrible stuff that surrounds them and is being done supposedly in their best interest, whereas the reality shows us that the opposite would most likely be the case.

The majority of people caused everything to happen on the show including all of our "heroes" in some way. It was a minority of people in a couple of different locations that eventually helped put everything back on track for now.

by Anonymousreply 15009/02/2019

Pretty much.

by Anonymousreply 15109/03/2019

R80, over the ten years we see that daughter change. Her relationship to the family becomes more central to her life and eventually she becomes the shows moral center.

But someone who tried to evade their physical form is going to be very aware of that form. That line made me think that her desire to become a machine was because of her awareness of the bigotry her human form triggers. And perhaps how her father saw her.

by Anonymousreply 15209/03/2019

that part made sense to me. the flaw in the writing for her character was how about-face she went in the next to the last episode of "the government owns this equipment I have" to in the next (where there is a lapse in time I believe) she's a total rebel against the state and essentially unionizes her colleagues - I can believe the change or character but it isn't fleshed out enough, it makes me think that there was a part of that story that was edited out

by Anonymousreply 15309/03/2019

also, we see Stephen and Viktor in the same room in the final sequence - if I were viktor I wouldn't want to even be in the same room as the guy who transferred me into a concentration camp, even if he DID serve time in prison and his sister saved your life.

by Anonymousreply 15409/03/2019

I hated Stephen. So selfish.

by Anonymousreply 15509/03/2019

He seemed deeply flawed.

by Anonymousreply 15609/04/2019

Just watched this today. And fuck what an amazing series. I’m going to recommend it to everyone I know. After reading all your comments, I’m glad I watched it now in 2020, I feel like it definitely hits different considering what we are all going through. Now it doesn’t seem all so silly, it seems more like a premonition that is slowing coming true.

R93 I too thought that Grans eye surgery was going to end up bad and having some built in obsolescence so she’d be forced to fork out more money to fix it.

I knew going in that this was created and written by RTD and composed by Murray Gold, but even if i didn’t know the show was so distinctively their style I likely would have guessed. Lots of subtle dr who references sprinkled through out and a lot of frequent collaborators of his too.

Danny’s welsh ex husband is hot as fuck. And gay irl too. Wonder if he and Tovey fucked for real.

by Anonymousreply 15706/26/2020

"Danny’s welsh ex husband is hot as fuck. And gay irl too. Wonder if he and Tovey fucked for real."

Dino had his nudes/sex video leaked a couple of years ago and is a bottom. I think he is not "compatible" with Tovey IRL.

by Anonymousreply 15806/29/2020

R158 have you links to these alleged videos?

by Anonymousreply 15906/29/2020

It was discussed here on Datalounge a couple of years ago. I don't remember the thread title. Try celebrities with leaked nudes or his full name Dino Fetscher. But I remember the important stuff: He is uncut and had a weird skin condition on his dick and liked to get fucked cowboy and doggy style. And there was nothing alleged about it. You could see his face and his lawyers/PR made sure the video was removed quickly (but not from every forum obviously).

by Anonymousreply 16006/29/2020
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