Avengers: Endgame, 2nd Thread, Reactions & Spoilers

I'd have linked to the other thread but it's already closed.

The film has already broken global box office records.

Yeah it is expected to be at one billion box office within the first 5 days of its release r2. Absolutely Insane numbers, though really it's what you expect at this point. You knew this movie was going to break records.

Has any recent major release get more than one thread ?

Love Simon had a couple r4. Call My By Your Name had about a million.

I'm glad for their sucess. They created an insane cliffhanger in IW. It is normal people wanted to see how it would all unfold.

R597, R598 from the previous thread, thanks for your replies. My point was that it doesn't have to be anything shippy or homoerotic. We know it is not that. But it is clearly an overreaction not to have the two characters interact when one is brought back from the deads thank to the effort of the other. Tony and Peter had their emotionnal moment. Even Rocket and Groot were acknowledged.

Oh well.

Steve and Bucky had a more substantial moment than Rocket and Groot... if anything Rocket and Groot were sidelined. Steve and Bucky had a small conversation and embrace before he time traveled, also it's implied that Bucky knew exactly what Steve was going to do, so they definitely spent time together even if we couldn't see it.

I would have liked more, but we didn't get nothing.

Bringing this over from the other thread.

[quote]Interesting article about the lack of interaction between Steve and Bucky. No, you don't have to be a tin-hat shipper to want the two friends to talk a bit. Or wonder why Bucky didn't get to do anything at all.

from the article: [quote]In Endgame, this presents in the devaluation of the Stucky dynamic in any context. Unlike so many of the other important MCU dynamics who were ripped apart by Thanos' snap, Steve and Bucky's reunion happens off-screen, seemingly deemed not important enough to merit even a quick aside during the climactic battle, as, for example, Tony Stark and Peter Parker or Rocket and Groot do.

I don't even remember Rocket and Groot interacting post-snap. They should take solace in the fact that Steve didn't just abandon Bucky (which is how fans are framing it in the #NotMySteve tag on Twitter). Cap obviously told Bucky his plan which is why Bucky told him "I'll miss you." And he was the only one who wasn't worried when Cap didn't return, instead he had a small smile and walked away.

I wouldn't be surprised if we get an extended version of the film on home release. I'm sure there are a few moments and interactions that were cut since the film was already 3 hours.

Plus, he's left an opening for Bucky to fall in love with Sam on their Disney+ show.

I get why people are upset that they didn't get a friend moment, but the shipper angst has me utterly confused. To be clear, I absolutely do see romantic chemistry between the two, but I can't see Steve wanting to spend his life with a woman he's been in love with for 80 years as some kind of need to tamp down on that. They were deluding themselves if they thought Marvel would go anywhere near that.

Why does everyone use the term shipper ?

...because that's what they are?

Google it, you lazy whore r11

From the term relationship, it became the term for people who are into (often obsessed) about a relationship between two characters who are not presented as being in a relationship.

Someone ( not here) suggested that perhaps it was initially intended that the whole Cap returning the Infinity Stones post-Stark funeral and not coming back as "current" Cap was to be a post-credits scene. I thought that was an interesting take.

And yes, it's subtle, but Bucky knows he isn't coming back.

Still, I'm glad about the choice to have no post credit scenes.

I agree with a lot points in this article.

Yes r16, it was discussed in the last thread how the ending with Captain America violated the time travel rules the movie established.

I'm sure in some interview they will explain it away, but it definitely bugged me.

Watched it last night. Thor was the best character in the movie, his meeting with his mother, Freja, was surprisingly touching. And seeing Cap wielding Thor’s hammer was the best, unexpected, moment.

I’m glad that the saga is over, and that I stuck it out until the very end. Much like the Harry Potter films, I was weary of the series at the end. I will not see the upcoming Marvel films because I’m just so damn tired of them.

[quote]Yes [R16], it was discussed in the last thread how the ending with Captain America violated the time travel rules the movie established.

I don't think it necessarily does. Steve returns all the stones to their respective timelines, goes and finds Peggy in another timeline, lives his life with her, and them comes back to say goodbye to Bucky and Sam. He didn't do it in the actual MCU timeline, much like the Ancient One didn't give Hulk the Time Stone in it.

The article at r16 is tripping itself up. When you make a deviation in the past it creates a new timeline. Peggy still marries Sousa and has children in the current timeline. When Cap went to her timeline and made himself known to her that created a brand new timeline. And who knows what he did in that timeline. He could have told S.H.I.E.L.D about the Hydra infestation. Maybe he did save Bucky and there's a timeline where Bucky never became Winter Soldier. It's an Alternate Universe, we don't know what happened there.

The only thing the writer can stand on is that it makes no sense for Old Man Cap to show up in the current timeline because he didn't use the time travel device and he essentially wiped himself out of that current timeline by going to the past and never returning.

[Quote] From the term relationship, it became the term for people who are into (often obsessed) about a relationship between two characters who are not presented as being in a relationship.

Lol obsessed is definitely the right word. But they can be canon or fanon.

What if Marvel decides to make an “Old Man Cap” movie to officially send him off like they did Logan?

Would you guys be ok with that?

Cap's been sent off. I don't want to see either him or Tony again.

Damn r23 that’s harsh lmao.

Tony is full on dead, so I get it. But Caps is still alive. We can very well make a movie based on him having people come for him in his old age.

r23 is correct. This entire movie was basically a good bye letter to Tony and Cap. Bringing them back in would be cheap and a sign the Marvel universe is creatively bankrupt without them.

I'm totally fine with them sending Steve and Tony off into whatever comes net, but honestly, I would have been equally okay if they'd just taken a page from James Bond and recast. Given the cyclical nature of comic books, I won't be surprised if that happens eventually, but they honestly seemed to have a definitive ending.

Well Sam's already the new Captain. And I'm sure we'll see someone don another iron suit. But Steve Rogers and Tony Stark are done.

A friend just explained to me that the SOULS of those who were sacrificed for the Soul Stone are INSIDE the Soul Stone with Adam Warlock. This is how Thanos encountered young Gamora after the finger snap at the end of Infinity War -- he briefly went into the Soul Stone. Therefore, they CAN be resurrected. So Gamora and Black Widow can both return but not until Adam Warlock is introduced. In Marvel Comics, Warlock was a pivotal player in the Infinity Gauntlet story arc.

Here’s a question. When Nebula and Rhodey went back to 2014 to intercept the stone before Quill got it, Thanos figured out the Avengers whole plan by downloading Nebula’s memories. That leads to Thanos’a army arriving at the end. Do we know how Thanos and Gamora got there? Did they time travel there? Or did this version of Thanos and Gamora simply wait out the time from 2014 to whatever year it is in the movie (2023?)

Was that clear to anyone?

Adam Warlock was referenced during the post credits scene of Guardians of the Galaxy 2, so he may factor into future films.

Yes, they time traveled into the movie's main timeline r28.

Explaining things from the movies based on the comics is kinda pointless, the movies are not the comics, lots of things are very different r28.

[quote] I’ve been reading comic books since the 80’s. The movie was okay. Some of these nerds are just way over the top about it. Crying? Really?

My tears were of empathy and envy. What I would give for my best friend who died prematurely in 2013 to come back healthy and beautiful to help me drag all these shitty people who are still around. Those fictional characters in ridiculous costumes were enacting something that triggered a deep, emotional desire that I would never otherwise give voice to.

[Quote] And I'm sure we'll see someone don another iron suit.

1.2 billion, folks.

Inevitable. Marvel's AVENGERS: ENDGAME eradicated the worldwide box office record, debuting with a deafening $1.2 billion

Now that Disney owns Fox it has 2 of the highest grossing films with Endgame and Avatar.

Oh, I can only imagine the fanboy rage if they introduce Riri Williams. I'm assuming that there's already cries of the oppression of white men since Steve made Sam and not Bucky Captain America (even though they've both him him in the comics). I can only imagine the howls if they introduce a black female replacement for Iron Man.

[quote]Inevitable. Marvel's AVENGERS: ENDGAME eradicated the worldwide box office record, debuting with a deafening $1.2 billion

I think that's even more than they were forecasting.

People were assuming it'd take 5 days to cross a billion globally right? That's an insane amount of money. Do we think it can cross a billion domestically?

In other news, Captain Marvel passed Wonder Woman's domestic gross as well.

Wonder Woman >>> Captain Snorevel

R39 is the funniest person I've ever seen.

People have a hard time accepting that the original cast can’t play these characters forever. It doesn’t matter what ending the story arc has for them, there will always be a segment that hates whatever it is. RDJ and Evans were fantastic in their roles but they both wanted to move on. They will be missed but there are many wonderful actors still left in the series and there will be new actors coming in at some point. It will be especially difficult to forget RDJ’s impact and presence in the MCU but is he supposed to play Iron Man into his 60s and 70s???

R35 Which is why it needs to happen 🤞

R38 Not a huge surprise. I still wish they'd give us another tv show.

This is the most basic form of entertainment, made for tards. Why are you morons giving $ to Disney?

r33 I'd sooner see infants slaughtered than see Bendis get royalties from the MCU. Give Iron Man to either Rhodey, or the Iron-Man 3 kid.

Ok, I have a question. When Tony meets his father in 1970, Howard, hearing noise calls for Armin Zola. Are we suppose to understand that he associated and collaborated with the Nazi science man for profit ? That Tony discovers his father is a bit corrupt, but getting the chance to see him and kind of make peace with him is more important ?

If I'm way off base, explain it to me.

Awesome and unexpected scene anyway.

Zola was one of the Hydra agents that infiltrated SHIELD, but no one knew it at the time.

From Howard's perspective, he was working with Werner von Braun.

I recklessly give money to Disney so that they can maintain the teacup ride at the theme parks in perpetuity.

Ok, thank you R46.

R44 Bless your heart.

What r41 said. Both Downey and Evans, right now, are past the age to play fighting super-heroes, no matter their super-human abilities.

R50 Evans is 37. He’s well within age to still play a Superhero.

Downey was older than that when STARTING. So please.

Chris Evans is at peace with retiring from Marvel, other people should be as well.

R52 sure but to say he’s too old to play a superhero at 37 is ridiculous when he’s one of the younger of the older casts.

Mark Ruffalo is 51 now.

RDJ is 54 now.

Jeremy Renner is 48 now.

Chris Evans is 37 now.

Chris Hemsworth is 35 now.

ScarJo is 33 now.

Hell Chadwick Boseman is newer and he’s 41 now.

So to say he’s too old at 37 is ridiculous

Scarjo is 33?

Not saying she looks bad (she looks great actually) but I would have guessed late 30's/early 40's. Her character seems tired/old for her age, so maybe that is it, but I'm a little surprised.

R54 hasn’t seen a person in real life in years

R54 she’s 34 actually. But yes, she’s young. She’s been acting since a child.

Well Hemsworth has zero plans on leaving Marvel. He said he wants to play Thor for as long as Marvel allows him to lol.

The power of Chris Evans

r58 I'd complain about dumb teenagers not understanding sexuality. But this bitch is 30/31 going by her username.

Evans may be getting too old to play a superhero but he still has a few good years left in him to sit on my face.

He’s not too old.

He's not too old but I have no idea where he goes after this. He doesn't have much range as an actor.

So watching Capt Marvel nearly break Thanos's fingers with her bare hands WHILE he was wearing the gauntlet with all the stones was life-giving.

Watching how easily Captain Marvel tanked a headbutt from Thanos was a great moment. But it is dangerous thing when you make a character so powerful, I mean Captain Marvel is really overpowered, will be curious to see how her movies manages to keep things interesting and how much they are going to use her on earth going forward.

R58 Enough with the fucking stupid ladyboners links asshole, we do not care

[quote] Watching how easily Captain Marvel tanked a headbutt from Thanos was a great moment. But it is dangerous thing when you make a character so powerful, I mean Captain Marvel is really overpowered, will be curious to see how her movies manages to keep things interesting and how much they are going to use her on earth going forward.

Agree. Realistically she should have been able to stop the whole thing. Use time-travel to take her back to Wakanda before Thanos got final stone and she (and Wanda) could have killed him. I agree the extent of her powers are problematic. She could have destroyed Thanos's ship before he laid waste to the Asgardians in Ragnarok. It's tricky to have a character that powerful.

Time travel doesn't work that way in these movies r66, that wouldn't have saved them. They had a whole conversation about how going back and killing Thanos wouldn't help them!

You just create a alternate timeline without a Thanos.

R67, so the solution was to kill Thanos in a single timeline twice? Now there is no 2014 Thanos doesn't that cause a branch in time. What's the difference?

[Quote] He said he wants to play Thor for as long as Marvel allows him to lol.

Well it's not like any of his other movies were a smash at the box office. The only one I really enjoyed was Cabin In The Woods, which was also by Whedon.

Killing Thanos had zilch to do with their plan r68. Their plan was just collect the stones from the timelines, use their power to bring people back, and return the stones.

It was just complicated when that Thanos ended up following them into their main timeline so they had to deal with that.

r70, but that's what Doctor Strange saw -- that Thanos had to be wiped from existence by IM. The only successful outcome out of 14 million outcomes. It was not a complication or a coincidence, it was destiny. It seems like there were ways to kill Thanos and prevent the snap that would have preserved the one timeline.

[quote]Hell Chadwick Boseman is newer and he’s 41 now.

I didn't know he was that old. He looks good and black don't crack.

[Quote]It seems like there were ways to kill Thanos and prevent the snap that would have preserved the one timeline.

The movie tells us explicitly no. Don Chealde asks if they can just got back in time and kill a baby Thanos and they explain you can't change your present by going to the past. The whole "Back to the future is bullshit?" scene.

[Quote] I didn't know he was that old. He looks good and black don't crack.

[quote]With that said, your lack of having seen these films demonstrated that you don’t particularly care or take movies very seriously.

I don't care for the comic book genre anymore and was never a Marvel fan, so that's why I haven't seen any of the previous movies. However, if this is going to set a box office record, I might go see it for that reason.

No, no, R75, don't go without watching some of the films first. Let's say Avengers and Avengers: Infinity War at least.

[quote]Watching how easily Captain Marvel tanked a headbutt from Thanos was a great moment. But it is dangerous thing when you make a character so powerful, I mean Captain Marvel is really overpowered, will be curious to see how her movies manages to keep things interesting and how much they are going to use her on earth going forward.

She's not necessarily the most powerful member or rather extended member of the team. The long and short of it is: the most powerful Avenger was meant to be "The Scarlet Witch" until Captain Marvel came along and Kevin Feige revised that. However, Wanda is arguably still overall the most "deadly" in terms of what we've seen. So there's a bit of a conflict there you can see in the film.

To be fair: Wanda/The Scarlet Witch was the only one that was able to go toe-to-toe with Thanos sans help and she was the only character HE needed assistance to stop. She's arguably their most powerful ally, even more so than Captain Marvel but she also doesn't just whip her powers out willy-nilly.

It's pretty common that when you have powerful characters like Storm or even Wanda/Scarlet Witch in the comics the limitations on what they do vs what they can do are pretty realistic. Carol is not going to go around killing people (because that's murder) or hurting innocent bystanders (by destroying a ship completely or being reckless.) Even if she could take a headbutt from Thanos he still was able to fling her around like a rag doll. At the most they tied. She would not have been able to take him down by herself.

You seemed to somehow miss that Thanos had to resort to using an infinity stone r77 to throw off Carol, he wasn't able to do it on his own. Both Carol and Wanda were shown how they could go toe to toe with him without the stones.

And while characters like Strange and Wanda are powerful, that are still humans with frail human bodies which gives them inherent vulnerability. Of course Carol is a tank that can fly right through a spaceship.

[quote] To be fair: Wanda/The Scarlet Witch was the only one that was able to go toe-to-toe with Thanos sans help and she was the only character HE needed assistance to stop. She's arguably their most powerful ally, even more so than Captain Marvel but she also doesn't just whip her powers out willy-nilly.

Wanda is surprisingly powerful but she cannot fly in outer space without a spacesuit. That Thanos' battleship ceased firing on the ground and directed it's entire firepower at Capt Marvel (to no avail) before she even entered the atmosphere is an indication that she was measurably more power than any entity that was on the ground.

^ *powerful

I don't see the interest in Captain Marvel. How can there be any suspense if the heroin has no vulnerability.

R81 What is the point in any superhero movie when you know the good guys are going to win.

R82 but Thanos lost

Thanos did nothing wrong.

R84 we beg to differ.

[quote] I don't see the interest in Captain Marvel. How can there be any suspense if the heroin has no vulnerability.

She's not invulnerable and her power has limits. There are other beings in the MCU that could pose a mortal threat to Captain Marvel. That said, CM is ridiculously unrelatable so I am not sure that future installments of her story can be as interesting as the Earthbound heroes. l still hope Larson will bring her Oscar-winning lesbionic charm to the role and elevate the character.

Ty Simpkins just went to prom!

[quote] He's straight

r87 Well now I hope he doesn't become Iron whatever.

R88 too boring.

Someone help me - if I want to watch the Avengers movies, which other MCU movies are necessary? I watched Captain America and could barely follow Captain America 2.

R90 I feel sorry for you if you couldn’t follow The Winter Soldier, which was amazing.

R90 you need to watch pretty much all of them, except maybe the first Hulk movie, how many characters do you know already? The last movie are already confusing, doing "flashback" to previous Avengers movies, and lining up all the B characters of the previous movies, just watch them all in order, it'd be easier.

Over the years I have seen Iron Man 1, Captain America 1, Captain America 2, Ant Man 1, Doctor Strange and Black Panther. So zero Thor, Guardians of the Galaxy, Spider-Man or Captain Marvel.

What are the "essentials"?

R93 all of them are essential cause they all tie in to each other.

Like every single movie?

Can I try the Thor 1, GOTG1, Spiderman 1 and the 4 Avengers movies?

I think Thor: Dark World is imminently skip-able.

You watch how ever little you want, but don't expect to understand it/have any emotional impact. It's not like there hasn't been a year since the last Avengers, or the last 11 years, to catch up. You don't need Spiderman to understand this; he is barely in it.

I don't think Thor 2 is skippable or your really don't understand Thor's arch. I would watch any movie with an infinity stone: Captain America 1, GOTG 1, Thor 2, Avengers 2, Doctor Strange, Infinity War. Add in the Captain America movies and the rest of the Avengers, maybe Thor 3.

This site lists their essential 7 Marvel Movies List to watch before Avengers: Endgame.

The Avengers, Avengers: Age of Ultron, Captain America: Civil War, Guardians of the Galaxy, Doctor Strange, Black Panther, Avengers: Infinity War

And then they list these Marvel movies in order with Infinity Stones:

Captain America, Captain Marvel, and The Avengers– Tesseract (Space Stone), Thor: The Dark World -Aether (Reality Stone), Guardians of the Galaxy – The Orb (Power Stone), Avengers: Age of Ultron – Loki’s Scepter / Vision (Mind Stone), Doctor Strange -Eye of Agamotto (Time Stone), Avengers: Infinity War– Soul Stone

Would they be sufficient?

Thor 3 is very much needed to see to understand the beginning of Infinity War.

People vastly overrate how much you "need" to follow a movie.

Understandably fans of this universe think it is crucial to the experience to pick up on every reference and already know every character, but that is not necessary. A reasonably adept can connect the most important dots and fill in the gaps while they watch.

[quote]The Avengers, Avengers: Age of Ultron, Captain America: Civil War, Guardians of the Galaxy, Doctor Strange, Black Panther, Avengers: Infinity War

Black Panther isn't essential viewing, I'd switch that with Thor Ragnarok and I'd say this covers enough.

OK, Thanks, guys. I will watch those. And I pretty much remember Doctor Strange and Black Panther (except for how Doctor Strange gets his magic/that weird shit with Mads Mikkelsen) so I will skip those, and I am happy to see Thor 3 because of Taika Waititi.

What r100 said, but I'd supplement that list with "Ant-Man and The Wasp" because of the quantum realm which is MAJOR in Avengers: Endgame.

On the bare minimum level, Avengers: IW is essential. My sister accompanied me to Avengers: Infinity War without ever seeing a previous Marvel movie but enjoyed it anyway because of the scene where Wong explains the Infinity Stones.

Winter Soldier is the most boring MCU movie. There, I said it. If I wanted to watch a spy flick I would watch Bond or MI. What I want from comic book movies is escapism, sf, magic, mythologies, cosmos etc. This one is just so mundane and doesn't move imagination or trigger any emotions. I even prefer Dark World (at least it is essential because of introduction to Reality Stone).

Josh Peck lives the Datalounge dream and gets within an inch of being Chris Evans’ PA. Maybe next time J!

I watched Winter Soldier after seeing only Iron Man 1 and Captain America 1 and was confused about how Sebastian Stan was in the current day. I didn't know who Scarlett Johansson was. I thought the whole superhero team's deal was kind of fascist and undemocratic and viewed them with suspicion. And the whole movie was industrial dove grey steel and concrete.

[quote] I think Thor: Dark World is imminently skip-able.

Yet one of the most emotional scenes in AE is a callback to Thor: Dark World.

R105. They get into Bucky again in Capt America Civil War, one of my faves. Black Widows background is outlined in Iron Man 2 (just a meh movie) and Age of Ultron (widely regarded as not one of the best, but I liked it).

Civil War was good but not as rewatchable as others.

Age of Ultron was shit, but it gave us Wanda and Vision.

I really liked Goop in this! I loved her calmness as Tony died and then her crying after he’s gone vs the overacting that would happen from some (I’m looking at you J Law)

[quote]You seemed to somehow miss that Thanos had to resort to using an infinity stone [R77] to throw off Carol, he wasn't able to do it on his own. Both Carol and Wanda were shown how they could go toe to toe with him without the stones.

[quote]Wanda is surprisingly powerful but she cannot fly in outer space without a spacesuit. That Thanos' battleship ceased firing on the ground and directed it's entire firepower at Capt Marvel (to no avail) before she even entered the atmosphere is an indication that she was measurably more power than any entity that was on the ground.

Kevin Feige has stated that Carol is the most powerful person in the MCU. That's what she was created to be.

As for Wanda, he's already changed his mind about the source of Wanda's powers (they're not just from the mind gem) making her closer to her comic book counterpart. She actually "is" a mystic now and he said he sees her as an untrained Dr. Strange.

But there's also a pretty obvious reason why they keep Wanda out of action for most of her appearances in the films, she is much more powerful than the other Avengers except for Carol and that doesn't make an interesting story.

So yes, Carol is powerful (the most powerful) but Wanda is no shirk either in the movies.

The comics are an entirely different story where Captain Marvel/Carol couldn't hold a candle to her. Sure she can project a lot of energy and she's durable but "The House of M" and "No More Mutants" proved how insanely powerful they made Wanda in the books.

[Quote] I loved her calmness as Tony died and then her crying after he’s gone vs the overacting that would happen from some (I’m looking at you J Law)

[quote] Age of Ultron was shit, but it gave us Wanda and Vision.

R108 aHEM

R112 he dies. So he doesn’t count.

^^did that British boy fuck Renner at any point during shoots for these movies? I saw them flirting during press for one of them.

[quote] ^^did that British boy fuck Renner at any point during shoots for these movies? I saw them flirting during press for one of them.

Only if there was money involved. Renner is so unfortunate-looking.

R114 i thought it was RDJ and not Renner he was rumoured to be fucking?

Is "The British boy" Tom Holland? He's either got a long term twink boyfriend. Or is fucking Zendaya.

Holland likes girls. He’s just young and sweet and friendly with everyone like a lot of young straight guys these days. Doesn’t mean he wants to fuck you.

Holland is always with the adorable Zendaya

That was the story r116. DL's Keram claimed that ATJ and Downey fucked during the filming of Ultron

Isn't Johnson a pretty famous MILF hunter? I don't think I've ever heard a rumour he's bi.

[Quote]I don't think I've ever heard a rumour he's bi.

Not even after I bought a Golden Globe for him?

You know he let Tom Ford open him up like a bag of oats.

I heard Weinstein did the same to Affleck

You can definitely skip The Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 1, 2 and 3, Guardians of the Universe 2, Age of Ulton, Captain America 1, 2, 3, Black Panther, Thor, Thor: The Dark Whore, Captain Marvel, Ant-Man 1 and 2, Infinity War, Civil War, Thor: Fragglerock, Spider-Man: Homecumming, Doctor Strange.

You must see Avengers 1 to know the characters of Iron Man, Cap, Black Window, Hulk, Cockeye, and Thor. Then see Guarduans of the Universe to know Quail, Rocket, Gamora, Nevula. So you only need to see two movies before eating Endgame.

I saw it again.

I feel like Doctor Strange is the unsung hero of Avengers Endgame. Within minutes of being brought back from the dead he marshalled all the Avengers and their allies and delivered them to the front lines of the battle. Without him, Thanos would have wiped them out again.

R123 lol at Cockeye

Jon Lovett talks about the big gay milestone in Endgame

[quote]She actually "is" a mystic now and he said he sees her as an untrained Dr. Strange.

And now that Disney has Fox, will she be revealed to be the mutant she truly is supposed to be?

Will ATJ be resurrected since Evan Peters is out the way?

Aaron Taylor Johnson's dead and I don't know why users can't get over that. His accent was horrible too... I'm glad he's gone.

ATJ has no presence.

[quote] Taylor Johnson's dead and I don't know why users can't get over that.

Are you new here?

Filming AOU ATJ was deliberately fetishised in his role as a muscular, hot/pretty 25y.o with the accent of a European rentboy. What did you think his reception would be?

His reception was horrible. He’s universally panned by the fandom as the worst Avenger.

Whoever said ATJ has no presence is right. People liked him in Nocturnal Animals, which I haven't seen, but the dude's a blank slate in everything else. Especially Godzilla. I'm glad he's out of the MCU.

R132 well this could be one reason why.

Very well done, for a super hero movie. It was fun and didn't disappoint.

I would have taken a bit more of Bucky. You know, he could have saved Captain America during the big battle, or something. After tracing this second (peripherical) character's arc throughout the films with short scenes, often after the credits (which was effective), I would have like a very short scene within the film to redeem the brainwashed supermsoldier and complete his arc.

I would have done with less of the space daughters (Nebula and Gamora), but that's me. Other than that, they gave nice endings to the characters.

The directors and the screenwriters have now given different explanations in interviews trying to justify how Cap's ending worked. Not a great look.

R135, It is only a fantasy, action film. It doesn't matter that the time travel theories are debatable. Most of what happens in these films is not realistic anyways.

It is a reasounding success for the kind of entertainment it is supposed to be.

I complained about the relative lack of Bucky, but it is only a detail.

Can people stop with Bucky. He wasn’t interesting

He is a secondary character, R137, but they made people care up to a certain point.

I'll play. What characters you thought were interesting.

I saw it again, this time in 3D. I almost never see movies a second time in the theater. Weirdly, I got more emotional this time.

R139 same. I cried the second time. Not the first lmao.

I won’t see it 3D.

[quote] The directors and the screenwriters have now given different explanations in interviews trying to justify how Cap's ending worked. Not a great look.

It is confusing. In the flashback they show him with Agent Carter as a full-fledged muscular Captain America. In which case he should not have aged normally in 80 years. He should not have been a withered shrunken old man as he appeared at the end of AE. So did he take the serum or not?

Huh r141? Why do you think the serum means he doesn't age?

Just because he was basically frozen for decades with the assist of an infinity stone doesn't mean he doesn't age.

The problem with the ending comes with understanding how the timeline works, as has been detailed many times.

????? Bucky and Black Widow were not frozen and neither has aged.

Bucky got frozen between every mission r143.

Natasha is not old, I'm not sure what you are getting out.

I am most familiar with the versions from Marvel Comics. Natasha is an enhanced former Russian spy. Bucky was not frozen, the serum prevents aging. Capt America should be immune to aging, disease and muscle deterioration.

The comics and movies are two different things. They even give her age in Winter Soldier, probably to avoid exactly this.

r139

me too in different places than the first time

[quote]me too in different places than the first time

The part that really got me was Nebula. For a movie that was primarily about the original six Avengers, she had a surprisingly strong arc.

I love how Nebula finally had her moment in the sun.

[Quote] I would have like a very short scene within the film to redeem the brainwashed supermsoldier and complete his arc.

I misread and thought you wrote supersperm 🤣

WIll that bitchy alien guy from Captain Marvel stick around? I love that queen in that movie!

Why didn't Captain Marvel age?

Alien magic

With as strong as she is, I’m not shocked she doesn’t age.

According to Brie Larson, she uses top notch facial creams to stay looking young lol

Yeah I don't need a explanation why Carol doesn't age like a normal human, she is a godlike being at this point.

Larson may use a great face cream but she will age for sure. Doesn't matter, really, if they want her younger, Marvel will just CGI it to make her look younger. Look what they did to RDJ in Civil War.

R156 I loved that scene.

Lol R150, I didn't realise there was a typo when I wrote it. That must be a unconsciously deliberate mistake !

[quote][R135], It is only a fantasy, action film. It doesn't matter that the time travel theories are debatable. Most of what happens in these films is not realistic anyways.

But it has to be realistic within the fantasy rules it set out. Just because it’s a fantasy film doesn’t mean it can’t have logic.

By your logic, any fantasy film can do anything it wants just because it’s fantasy. Vampires should show up at the end of ET. It’s all fantasy. Aliens should show up in Back to the Future and abduct Michael J. Fox. If people complain that doesn’t make sense, hey, it’s all fantasy anyway.

R159 the second scenario doesn't sound too farfetched.

Do I need to see Captain America Civil War before Endgame?

Nope

It's recommended that you watch 10 years of movies before watching Endgame to fully enjoy it.

R161, yes, it is better to.

I’m the “What MCU Movies should I see before Endgame” troll and my viewing companion and I just finished Infinity War with her having only seen Iron Man, Thor, Captain America 1 & 2, Avengers 1 &2 and Guardians of the Galaxy. I had also seen Ant Man, Doctor Strange and Black Panther and we made it through without a problem.

Off to Endgame now.

Have fun, R165.

Just came back. Thank you guys for your advice about which MCU movies to see prior.

The only bit I was confused about was Captain Marvel. I didn’t see her movie and I wasn’t sure how Iron Man and Nebula got off the planet at the start. Or who she was at first! I found her a bit cold and sarcastic but Brie Larson has a butchiness that works as an action hero; she’s not a slinky model/ballet dancer type like Zoe Saldana or Karen Gillen or Elizabeth Olsen.

Overall, it really hit me really hard. My father died last year and all the Captain America and Iron Man stuff had me in tears. Gwyneth Paltrow and Chris Evans were particularly great in those scenes.

Did you agree that you didn’t need to see any of those movies to understand Endgame? All you needed was Avengers 1 and Guardians 1 to know all the characters.

R168 you need to see them all or it feels empty.

r168 I could have gotten by with just Avengers 1 and GOTG1 if I had wiki at home to double check plot stuff as went along. Infinity War does a good job of explaining where the character relationships were at.

r169, I would have struggled without Doctor Strange (the Tilda/Hulk scene and Strange foreseeing the outcome), Ant Man 1 (the nanotechnology and Michael Douglas 1970s scene) and Captain America 2 (Bucky and the Hydra/SHIELD stuff). I regret not seeing Captain Marvel because I was very unfamiliar with her looks and voice. When a blonde woman in a helmet came to save Spider-Man I assumed it was Captain Marvel, not Pepper Potts, and was really to surprised to see Gwyneth Paltrow without a helmet in armour at the end. I didn’t know who Tessa Thompson or the Kiwi-accented CGI playing video games were but that didn’t matter at all.

So for me Avengers 1, Captain America 1&2, Iron Man 1, Thor 1, Ant Man 1, Guardians Of The Galaxy 1, Captain Marvel and Doctor Strange make Infinity War and Endgame eminently understandable for a Marvel virgin without any extra googling. The rest are entirely skippable for this purpose.

I think Infinity War is the best MCU film since Captain America 1 and Iron Man 1. I liked it and Endgame so much much I will gradually dip into the MCU pool now.

Oh, and I am the What MCU Movies Do INeed To Watch Troll/ r165

What movies do I need to watch before heading into Justice League?

You might as well not watch Justice League.

R172 none? Unless you want to see Henry Cavill and his pecs in Man Of Steel.

Chris Hemsworth has his K-Mart-sized Byron Bay behemoth to pay for, a Spanish wife and 3 children to bring up as independent millionaires so he has signed on to Phase 4.

It's nice how Downey and Evans were obviously dying to get out of Marvel, but neither of them phoned it in. Wish I could say the same for Natalie Portman who was surprisingly fun in Thor yet gave her standard awful Star Wars-level performance in the sequel because she didn't like the director.

I loved Natalie Portman in Thor. It’s a shame she intentionally didn’t try for the sequel cause she hated the Director and script.

At least she agreed to a cameo in Endgame.

I’m annoyed we haven’t seen Nakita (Lupita N’yongo) since Black Panther. Where is she? Same with Rachel McAdams from Doctor Strange.

They show us Pepper Potts (well she was a part of the whole bringing up of the Marvel Universe so I get it), Peggy Carter, Wasp (cause she’s one of the heroes), even Portman but never the other love interests.

[quote]It's nice how Downey and Evans were obviously dying to get out of Marvel, but neither of them phoned it in

Agreed, r175; Johanssen and Ruffalo, too.

Anyway, I'm Marveled out. "Black Panther" was my first ever Marvel film. I jumped on the bandwagon, binge-watched all of the MCU output, enjoyed, it am now jumping off.

oops- enjoyed it

Any Marvel cast gossip?

I enjoyed it but Steve's ending still bothers me

I plan on seeing this tomorrow. I pray my bladder will stay strong till the end.

So in the timeline when they went to New York to get the stones and Loki made off the with Tesseract, in that timeline is there a different future where he's off doing his thing?

I’m bothered by the elevator scene. That wasn’t in the first Avengers.

The elevator scene was from Captain America: Winter Soldier. One of the best fight scenes in all of the MCU., IMHO.

The elevator scene in Endgame was a homage to the scene in Winter Soldier and a way to show how Captain America has changed and grown since the original Avengers.

Hmmm

R186- where did you get that info? They clearly set Thor up to join the Guardians (yay!) but I haven't seen it confirmed. Will be bummed if they take the Guardians out of the MCU crew.

R188 I got it from LChat.

[quote]So in the timeline when they went to New York to get the stones and Loki made off the with Tesseract, in that timeline is there a different future where he's off doing his thing?

Yes, it will be explored in the new Disney Positive show Loki: God of Mischief.

[quote]It's nice how Downey and Evans were obviously dying to get out of Marvel, but neither of them phoned it in.

What? You’d think they would at least tweet something. Fuck, why censor their own feelings?

[Quote] It's nice how Downey and Evans were obviously dying to get out of Marvel, but neither of them phoned it in.

Was anyone expecting them to phone it in?

R192 some actors do when they no longer wanna play a role.

Why is Hawkeyes daughter Mexican? Him and his wife produced two white boys together and a brown girl?

R193 true, but I figured RDJ would want to go out on a high note.

r192 Well, I have a long history of phoning it in when I get bored on set.

R196 I guess I need to check out the Thor movies then.

R197 she was fun in the first.

The second is where she didn’t even try and just said her lines cause she hated the script and Director.

Love that they simply reused footage from Dark World for Portman and she literally phoned in a couple new lines for Endgame. Easiest paycheck.

The Thor movies were all awful. Even the last one from Titties Waikiki.

Ragnarok was awesome

R198 I only saw Ragnarok so I missed out on Portman. I wonder if Kat Dennings was pissed...?

Portman is going to be back in Phase 4 as She-Thor.

R203 that sounds like a terrible idea.

R203's speaking out of his ass. There's been no She-Thor news. If anything they'll focus on Valkyrie while Thor joins the Guardians of the Galaxy.

Has it reached three billions yet?

Lol, no, it's at 2.5 billion.

It’s slowed down big time. It probably won’t even hit 3 Billion.

I enjoyed the first Thor, although it was simple like most of Marvels first few films. Portman and Dennings were fun in that and Hemsworth very funny. The second one was terrible cause it took itself too serious and the script was awful, and Portman just said her lines without acting. You could tell she hated being there.

Ragnarok was awesome fun and Valkyrie was a great addition to the series. Loved Cate Blanchett

The first Thor, while the weakest of the original three's films, had a lot of charms. Chris Hemsworth was great in the role, Tom Hiddleston played Loki's tragedy well, and I enjoyed Anthony Hopkins' banishment scene. The second film was dull, but I remember it having one of the better scores in any of these Marvel films. Probably second to Black Panther. The formula was perfected for Ragnarok though.

But Natalie Portman does become She-Thor in the comics.

I doubt Natalie would agree to do it r210. She only agreed to make a 5 second cameo in Endgame cause they paid her like $500k for it, like $100k per second and she didn’t have to say lines.

They left a bad taste in her mouth.

Also, what happens in the comics isn't guaranteed to happen in the MCU.

Instead of She-Thor they should get She-Hulk instead.

I saw the film yesterday. I generally don't like MCU films that much since they're mostly fluff but I did enjoy Infinity War, and Captain America: The Winter Soldier does rise above others in some ways. That's why almost the whole Endgame experience was disappointing since it was nothing but a big meh from start to finish. There were a few funny jokes, and the Rene Russo scenes with Hemsworth were probably the most heartfelt. Otherwise the screenplay was a mess, filled with too much stupidity and obviously time travel which gives you a free hand to do practically anything. Doctor Who gets it right sometimes but the Russo bros certainly did not.

The ending with Captain America and that chick was apparently supposed to be the emotional high point for the whole series, after Downey Jr. finally getting offed that is. However Peggy is such a minor character in the whole MCU film universe that Disney/Marvel urged people to watch all the MCU films before seeing Endgame. The emotional payback wasn't that great for those who barely remember her. It wasn't a bad ending but I guess it was suitable enough to a convoluted mess of a film. Those of us who enoyed a bit of Buck/Cap wishful thinking obviously felt like this was not enough.

And yes, the "gay scene" was annoying and insulting. Marvel's support for gay people stops at yuans and rubles. I guess I should applaud the bros for even getting this much in, though.

While Peggy is a character we almost never see cause she was alive in the past, she isn’t minor. She’s a huge part of the Captain America character and who would forget who she is? Everyone knows Peggy is who he was in love with. She’s brought up in every CA film and Ultron.

[quote]  She only agreed to make a 5 second cameo in Endgame cause they paid her like $500k for it, like $100k per second and she didn’t have to say lines.

While Natalie Portman’s Doctor Jane Foster made a cameo in Avengers: Endgame, the actress didn’t actually shoot any new footage for the appearance.

Reported by Entertainment Weekly, directors Anthony and Joe Russo explained the only new content Portman provided for the film was a quick piece of voiceover work. Anthony said "All she did new for this movie was..."

"The voice,” said Joe.

“A little bit of voice-over when she’s talking in the distance, that’s it,” finished Anthony.

Peggy also had her own show for one brief shining moment 😔

She also went to the premiere, so she couldn't have been that put out.

The part where Jane Foster woke up was newly shot I read.

She also was provided with her own trailer and assistants etc.

Peggy’s show was good. It’s a shame she quit it to do that other show.

[Quote] Peggy’s show was good. It’s a shame she quit it to do that other show.

Wait what? I thought it was cancelled?

R220 it was canceled after she quit.

R221 bummer

As Disney does everything in their power to get people to sign up for Disney Plus, it is now announced a series starring Stan's Bucky and Mackie's Falcon is starting production soon.

R219 That scene was actually from unused cut footage from Dark World.

A poster literally linked to the director's saying it wasn't new footage they had to shot, but for whatever reasons r219 reports what "he heard"

I think they shot new footage. I saw Thor: The Dark Whore and that scene of her waking up was not in it.

R226 Sounds like you watched the porno parody instead 😄

R226 Once again, it was unused footage from Dark World.

I wish Bucky would take over as Cap.

R229 why?

[quote][R220] it was canceled after she quit.

Nonsense, ABC cancelled it because people didn't watch it. You can bet she had a contract to stay for the usual five seasons after it would be renegotiated.

Either way it's a shame the show ended because it was nice having Enver back on screen. He was fantastic on Dollhouse.

According to Reddit someone uploaded an edited " fan boy" version that removes all the "feminism", "minorities" and "gay shit".