What disappointed you about the gay community, when you came out?

It's not all its cracked up to be. I found it a lot if fun in my 20s, but by 30 I realised it's a clique ridden mass of neurosis and spite. There is definitely a caste system to the gay Community. Muscle guys at the top of the ladder. Worse still you can only be friends with those in yr caste because the better looking guys think the rest are going to come onto them so surround themselves with their own clique. Its toxic. Even gays aren't really a community at all. So this LGBTQI stuff is laughable.

What community? There's no community. Those who think so are delusional.

Not so much a disappointment but rather a realization that there was so much diversity and various personal agendas. You really had (and still do) to watch what you say. I also didn't realize how difficult it was for many people to come out to family, friends, co-workers, etc. Sure there are disappointments, but the situations I've come across are really not much different than with straight people. Such as liars, people with substance abuse issues, excessive vanity, hooking up with the wrong type of person, and the list goes on. The word community is really an untruth. There is no community, even for gay men. Just people trying their best to make it through from one day to the next.

I think so many gay men I meet have emotional problems, which I suppose is understandable when you think of it.

the backstabbing and the realization that (and this is my experience; your MMV) I was more comfortable around nice straight guys who weren't all angsty about everything.

I could never find anyone really.

I lost a friend to suicide last year and I think about it myself; he had a family. I don't except for Mom and when she's gone I won't have much.

I probably won't do it, but the loneliness is pretty painful

"So this LGBTQI stuff is laughable."

Especially if you place muscle men at the top.

In my experience the people who are the most bitter about the gay community are the ones who

a) only consider gay men to be worthy of inclusion and

b) consider the most shallow aspects of gay life as the pinnacle of gay "success."

It's the equivalent of people who think the Kardashians are the be-all and end-all of all human civilization.

That kind of thinking would make anyone miserable.

What disappointed me about the gay community was how it was trivialized by those both inside and outside the community. And the fact that it seemed limited to gay white men only.

Hookups don’t lead to love or friendships. Eg Just because a guy begs for your cum, doesn’t mean he wants to have coffee with you next week.

Eldergay here. The existence of a more cohesive gay community was much stronger back in the 70s and 80s when so much was at stake with visibility, fighting for just the most basic rights, and then the devastation of the AIDS epidemic. There was a sense of having to support each other and do battle for each other.

Now did all gays and lesbians participate? No, but enough did, particularly in more urban areas where there were appreciable numbers of us.

Were there screwed up personalities? Sure. If you're part of a group that's been marginalized and basically spat upon for centuries, it's possible that you won't necessarily be the most well-adjusted person out there. But you still have value. And yes, we can be looks-oriented, but straights are the same way.

With the gains gay men and women have made in the last 15-20 years, many have become more complacent. There's more integration of gay and straight people now as opposed to the more "us vs. them" that existed longer ago.

I think that's a good thing, but the kind of gay community that existed previously has dissipated somewhat. Plus all the focus on non-gay issues by our organizations has splintered so many people's focus.

Finally, we all have to find our own way in life. To expect that some group of people is going to roll out the red carpet and hold your hand after you come out is just not realistic.

There have been a number of "how disappointing it is to be gay" threads like this lately.

Trolls or just some posters angling for an online self-pity party?

I’m an elder gay that came out in the 70s, and I couldn’t have said it any better than R8. 👍🏻

R6 people like you who politicize everything are the most draining of all. You see everything in the form if quotas and tick boxes. I don't give a shit how many black people are in the bar or if there are only rich people there. I care that they are friendly and welcoming. Do us a favour and go back to the student union where you belong.

Peter Pan Syndrome is the norm. Ageism has everyone neurotically fleeing the inevitable to avoid feeling or being disposable. I regret how much time I wasted trying to find happiness or even a superficial sense of kinship in such a shallow, dysfunctional place. It’s nothing more than a mirage that looked like glistening pool, but ended up being nothing more than a fetid puddle. The less immersed you are it, the healthier you will become on many levels.

R9 its a good thing id rather gay men be honest instead of always towing the party line of "we're all fine now thanks" some of us struggle and the fact that posters like you like to brush it off proves my point about the lack of cohesion between us.

I agree with R12. Now ill wait for someone to call us Russian trolls lol

I had just gotten out of college in way pre-cellphone America, and within my set of friends, it was fairly common for us all to just drop in on each other without calling ahead. So...getting used to not just dropping in on Saturday's trick took me a couple of weeks to get used to, and had somewhat of a chilling effect. I quickly became someone who would never do that, but it has always made me wonder whether people are really glad to see me.

I came out in the early 80s and the cultural shift from camp humor to humorless worship of divas à la Dreamgirls, and worship of diva-like attitude left a bad taste in my mouth.

That it's not a community

Interesting, r16. I think of "camp" and "diva worship" as being very closely related. I've never been into either one, so the similarities and distinctions may have gotten lost on me.

One is silly and dishy and fun. The other is about being superior and throwing attitude, and it disdains the offbeat.

"What community? There's no community. Those who think so are delusional."

Exactly.

You only have to look at the thin gay media outlets that exist, and what they now pander to.

Which is nothing more than obsessional narcissism and puddle-deep, shrill identity politics.

And any politician that panders to tokenism and gestural politics (a sort of updated baby hugging), like Canada's Trudeau or New Zealand's Arden, is treated like the Second Coming.

Everything is clickbait for those with gnat-like attention spans: a generation who absorb Marvel movies, which are so close to Brave New World's 'feelies', its alarming. Those who spend their days taking selfies to raise their 'profile' are lauded: thirty years ago they would have been treated as vain psychopaths.

The small clusters of dumbfuck muscle queens and those who think they are A listers because they have money and 'taste' have always existed, but those of any intelligence have always avoided them like the plague. Those groups have always been completely unaware of the vast numbers of gay people who live either integrated or alternative lives, and don't need to identify some screwed up self-limiting idea of a 'community' for self worth.

Indeed: the idea that any person of real intelligence and empathy would want to belong nowadays to the prancing BGBSTSYX and Tran and Stan crowd is laughable.

Goddamn right.

You can't. You can only ignore it, and endeavour to seek out of those of genuine worth, whose values and contributions you respect, and which speak to your heart. I do think we are entering a new Dark Ages. One has seek out or create virtual monasteries that provide respites of intelligence and empathy, against the noisome forces of mass stupidity on one side, and increasing state fascism on the other. There's always been this number of stupid people, but never have their voices and righteousness been louder. Hence the need to wall yourself off from it, and carefully filter what you allow through for sanity.

Not a good idea. The voluntary walling off of individuals is what's killing other aspects of society. Currently, there is a thread covering the demise of brick and mortar retail economies because people want to sit in their bunkers and shop online. Towns, cities, communities, societies can't function with everyone locked away in cells.

Not enough tops.

Two words: Social media.

Oh, and what R25 wrote.

I cannot forgive in the absence of an apology. I also look askance when I read or hear about people forgiving others for the harm they have visited on their loved ones, as it seems like presumptuous action.

^^wrong thread

R8 and R12 Accurate. In the gayest locales guys are looking for the hottest dude they can attract. Being civil or friendly belongs to the distant past. Gay men want the security of "gay places" and do not want to belong to any "Community" except one where they can be on display and shun the ones they feel are Too old or not Hot enough.

10 thirsty bottoms chasing that one rare unicorn top. It's like a never ending Drag Race episode of cunt-itude because of the sexual imbalance. Straights don't have this hurdle.

Oh, and the generally shitty taste in music of gay men similar to 13 year old girls.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R31 is obviously under 31 years old. R31, look up Stonewall.

Thank you, R32. Usually people on here accuse me of being old. You've made my day.

Tell you what. YOU look up Stonewall. Tell us what you find.

[quote]Usually people on here accuse me of being old.

How often do they accuse you of being a party pooper?

R31 if you truly have that attitude and actually are over 31, I wouldn't admit it.

It is not a community. I REPEAT - it is not a community.

It may look like it if you can get together with your designated clique.

We resent what you're implying.

I found it awful and nothing like I’d imagined it would be. Like most gay kids of my generation and location (I’m in the UK and now 47) I’d always felt very isolated and alone. I started buying gay news magazines when I was 14 or 15 and the gay world looked so exciting and exotic. I couldn’t wait to be part of it all. My political and social views mean I’ve always believed in community despite the real life evidence that it doesn’t really exist like I’d like to. I guess I’m an idealist.

All I wanted was another boy or man to talk to, to share experiences of growing up. I phoned gay switchboard when I was 14 and spoke to them for over an hour. That gave me such a high afterwards, to finally be able to speak freely was so liberating. I joined the Lesbian & Gay Youth Movement and had a few penpals, met up with a couple but didn’t really find I had much in common with them and certainly no attraction. I also didn’t know what I was supposed to do on these dates. I’d never bothered pretending by dating girls, I’d come out to school friends incredibly early.

Anyway…I finally went away to further education in London, mainly attracted to it because of the gay scene. I joined the university lesbian and gay society and expected I’d have a boyfriend within a few weeks. Needless to say it didn’t work out like that, at the first meeting all the other men decided to go off to a pub and didn’t bother to invite me. I became very friendly with two lesbians (one of whom is still a great friend now) and we used to go out to places together, pubs, cafes, youth groups and things. They soon got tired of being the only women at these things (understandably) so I started going on my own. I’ve always been hung up on my looks and if I attracted anyone at all (which was rare) it tended to be dirty old men. Yes I know I’m judging them on their age and looks but at 18 I wanted someone I could feel comfortable introducing my parents to.

Whenever I went out it was to enjoy myself, but always with the hope that maybe this time I’d meet someone I liked and who liked me. I found plenty I liked, but it was never reciprocated. One crush on a fellow student got so bad I had a bit of breakdown about it. After a few months I thought I’d join the organising committee of the one of the young gay men’s groups I’d been going to regularly. However many vacancies they had 3 or 4, 4 or 5 people stood and I failed to get elected, but they co-opted me on and I was on the committee for a few years. One week I went to the usual Friday meeting and it was very quiet, with none of the other committee members there. One of the group members told me they’d all gone off on a camping holiday together, with plenty of the non-committee members too. That ended it for me; I’d spent so long feeling and outsider in the straight world, to be excluded by my gay peers too was devastating. I was rather immature emotionally but it seriously had never occurred to me before that people would have spoken about me behind my back or laughed at my emotional ups and downs. I didn’t think I was that interesting and I certainly didn’t do it about anyone I knew.

I went back to live with my parents after university and used my London experience to set up a local youth group which was successful for a while but I gave it up when I got a full time job.

I tried bloody hard to do good for ‘the community’ and never got anything back for it and I finally got the message that my ideal of it didn’t exist and what was there could get along without me just fine. When I was a teenager my first few Pride events were amazing and had a political point to them. Now London Pride is my idea of hell and I’ve rejected the ‘community’ that I tried so hard to help and be part of but it wasn’t interested in me.

R38 is alone because he's exhausting.

For you R20, maybe you should head over to Palm Springs next week for Blatino Week.

The 13th annual Blatino Oasis. May 3-5, 2019. California's largest Gay and Bisexual men of color getaway weekend.

Wow - I found the gay community in my little burg. Sadly those two I had met one is dead the other one somewhere in Virginia. Fortunately I met the love of my life in my 20's and we're still together today. Were it not for that I'd be like the rest of you.

I read r38's post in an English accent.

I wouldn't be alive if it were not for the gay community. Everything from health care to counseling, friends has been giving to me for free from the GLBT Center. That only happened because someone from "the gay community" decided there needed to be a safe place for gays to go for help and to meet in a non serialized environment. 30 years ago it didn't exist. People from the gay community did that for their generation and all that were to fallow. I never expected a thing and I got more than I can imagine. The bitter queens on here seem to start with a lot of expectation of the gay community that they don't put on the straight community to provide.

Here's an idea, dont ask what the gay community can do for you, as what you can do for the gay community.

[quote]What disappointed you about the gay community, when you came out?

Better question:

What disappointed you about the straight community, when you came out?

R39 - thanks but I've been in a relationship for 21 years now.

R42 - I am English.

It's also not a community because you need to have more in common with someone that both fancying the same sex to build one. What have I got in common with the likes of Tim Cook, Stephen Fry or Tory MP Nick Herbet apart from that? Fuck all.

R43 Is right. Those gays here expecting membership to a club with benefits and support are deluded. All the complaints here could just as easily be thrown at the straight community, there are as many cliques and as many douche bros as muscle marys, there is as much of a food chain but straight people don't assume they will be looked after in some way just because they are straight and among other straight people. I suspect the attitude posters have here would leave them as disappointed in life if they were straight.

R38 then what the fuck are you ranting for. You are too needy and thoroughly exhausting. That is why you were left behind on that camping trip.

Learned quickly that a gay bar is often the loneliest place in the world. Always had more fun and interesting times in straight bars. Most of my closest friends have been straight. The gay friends I've had have been less than admirable. I never felt a sense of community in the gay world.

I gained nothing from coming out...nothing. Eventually my family came around, but the gay community didn’t do anything for me. Maybe my expectations were too high.

How bitchy we are towards one another, and how gays and lesbians generally don't get along.

R47 - yes I'm well aware of that thanks. As I said myself I was emotionally immature at the time. It's not something that keeps me awake at night screaming 'Why oh why did everyone hate me?'. I've certainly gained some self awareness since then.

All my problems with the community were due to my misguided / idealised thoughts of what I assumed it was. I thought there would be lots of help and support. I was wrong. I wised up. I grew up. But that feeling of being left of things has never left me; I've never felt connected to the vast majority of gay men I've met because I don't seem to have much in common with them.

I'm not "ranting" I'm sharing my experiences. Sorry for over-sharing, clearly I'm not as self-aware and matured as I thought I was.

[quote] Most of my closest friends have been straight. The gay friends I've had have been less than admirable. I never felt a sense of community in the gay world.

97% of the population is straight so it would be odd if all of your friends were gay. The question is, do you feel embraced by the straight community? I don't mean your friends or family who know you, I mean the WHOLE community. The religious right, Fundies, people like Kim Davis? If you are going to paint the gay community with a broad brush then to be intellectually honest, you need to do the same with the straight community. Can you kiss your boyfriend at a wedding full of straight people and not feel awkward? How about an office where straight couples still have the OK to do that in public? How about in front of little kids at the park or a school? Straight people can do that, can you do that without a dirty look from some Soccer Mom?

racism and trans hate

So there is no racism and trans hate in the straight community R53? I think there is a lot more there Dear.

[quote]One crush on a fellow student got so bad I had a bit of breakdown about it.

Why does this happen to us? Not just gays, but people in general? Why is it so hard to move on, even after we realize our attraction is not, and is never going to be, reciprocated?

I've had it happen five times: the first time with a straight guy; next time with my first really, truly out gay boyfriend; not again until eight years later; and again six years after that (he was mentally ill probably: became a priest). And then it didn't happen again until twenty seven years later.

I’m 63 and came out at 22 because I wanted my parents to pay for college and knew my parents would kick me out if I had told them earlier. That wasn’t my biggest issue though. There was always a struggle separating friendships from sex. I had few gay friends because many guys I wanted a friendship with couldn’t accept the limits when it came to sex. Subsequently, I had few friends but many sexual partners but those relationships rarely became friendships. Very frustrating!

If you expect to meet gay friends in a bath house or toilet, then yes, R56, no surprise they only want sex. The gay friends I have all came from work environments, school or places I lived. Known many for decades and never had sex with any of them. I have both gay men and woman no problems.

I know a guy that says the same thing you do about all the gay friends wanting to have sex with him. He's in a monogamous relationship. The thing is, he is always flirting with everyone and stops calling if you refuse to play. He now wont go to gay bars because "they all want to have sex with me". Ha, Ha, he's 54 years old!

there is no "gay community". it is a made up fantasy phrase.

Every one of the people I fell for (and they fell for me) was already involved with someone else. The level of infidelity was staggering....and still is...

Anyone expecting a welcoming committee when they come out is foolish. I never did. Yes, gay culture is shallow and obsessed with looks, wealth and status. So is straight culture.

Lots of internalized homophobia in these posts. The loneliness and isolation that gay people feel clearly springs from the rejection we experience from the larger, heteronormative society. Why blame your fellow gays for that?

Have any of you blaming “the gay community” for your pain ever acted selflessly or sacrificed something for other gay people? Have any of you ever gone out of your way to welcome a newly out gay person? If sex or romance was the motivator, it’s not selfless, so doesn’t count.

most gay men are obsessed with sex only relationships then wonder why they're alone in life.

[quote]Every one of the people I fell for (and they fell for me) was already involved with someone else. The level of infidelity was staggering....and still is...

LOL, the divorce rate among straight people is OVER 50%. and its usually about cheating or infidelity.

The waters.

What surprised me was how adolescent the culture was, how backward, and how focused on sex to the detriment of all else. Despite the advances we’ve made (and the real and dangerous steps we are going to be forced to make back by the current administration) it’s still exactly the same.

It’s time for gay men to grow up. And put your fucking shirts on.

For the most part, you're talking about men, and men in general are bad at making supportive communities. It's the nature of the beast.

[quote]It’s time for gay men to grow up.

Yes.

[quote]And put your fucking shirts on.

No.

Many posters above seem to miss the point of o.p's post. In big cities there were / are gay areas

A man or woman who had come out and lived/ hung out in those areas were interacting with gay people, in bars, grocery stores, restaurants and local/ national newspapers and magazines and felt free to be themselves and know they were around "Family."

At a gym, people were friendly regardless of looks or age. There was of course bondry lines but most knew difference between being "with Family" or being elsewhere. The newspapers are all but gone and thinks like hanky codes in the past.

Gays and lesbians are way too sensitive. I had to watch everything I said, because they would question my intent. Bizarre. I still chill with straights.

R68, You would not have been Out and "chilled" with Straights 20 years ago!

R69 I am an elder Gay. Yes, I was openly gay 20+ years ago. I still hung with straights. I am not sure what your intent was?

[quote] It’s time for gay men to grow up. And put your fucking shirts on.

WOOHOO! Let’s suggest this catchphrase to Mayor Pete. Conservative gay POWAH baby!

Not enough tinsel and sparklers.

The overall shallowness and white gays' inherent racism that registers either as revulsion, fetishism or disdain.

R73 I don’t know what you’re talking about. We are very inclusive! 😬

the earrings

The Caftans!

The need to overcompensate for everything.

Gay men feel the need to be fabulous because it does make them seem like the have the last laugh on life.

The truth is, very few people really fucking care about their style, looks, money, etc.

It took moving out of the gay ghetto to realize this. I'm much happier and less neurotic just living a simple, everyday life like "normal" people.

Not enough gay men are like John Maclean

[quote]It took moving out of the gay ghetto to realize this. I'm much happier and less neurotic just living a simple, everyday life like "normal" people.

And this "simple, everyday life like 'normal' people" consists of what, R77?

Oddly I had been raised in a home where gays were considered great writers and artists. I thought the gay world would be full of Noel Cowards and James Baldwins all talking about things that straight people weren’t deep enough to understand. But no they were retail clerks, waiters, and oppressed idiots who stood around looking over their back at every man who walked in the door. They listened to crappy music, drank watered down drinks, and were female hating bigots. It was the late eighties so there was a strong air of AIDS all around. After being rejected by more men because of my color, I moved back to the straight world. All my friends are family, with children who love me- and know that I am gay. Though single, I am happier babysitting and watching “ Frozen” for the 100th time than any gay community I ever came in contact with. Children and strong woman friends made a man out of me. The gay world would have kept me in middle school all my life.

That I still was made to feel I had to assimilate. It felt like all the people who were picked on I’m high school, got to relive those dreams of popularity they didn’t have in school. I found that if I was hanging out In the trendy bars with diva house music playing, then it was attitude. The gay bars with more of an edge (punk, bear, leather, fetish) were a lot friendlier and welcoming. Being nasty and mean, was sport from what I witnessed. But I found my community.

I thought the first guy I fell in love with also fell in love with me. But he didn't. He just liked to fuck me. For months.

I dislike that imaginary concept "gay community". What you really mean and base your idea on is the type of people and scene you socialise with. That's an individual's experience that only describes your circle of socialisation,

My first ten years of gaydom were mostly in a small/medium and then a medium/large rust belt city.

The thing I loved was that it was a small, tight knit community. The thing I hated was....that it was a small, tight knit community. LOL

The things I did not like:

Incessant self-created drama and Mean Girls-ish behavior among supposed adult men

Wit and bitchiness is one thing but hatefulness was celebrated

That people who felt they were judged so unfairly could be some of the most judgmental (and frankly, racist) people around

Your own community reflects you. You pick who you socialize with. You pick your friends, your peers. If you don't like your choices, that's on you.

I’m now 33 but realized in my middle 20’s that the gay “community” was very toxic and decided I wanted nothing to do with it.

Disappointments? Where do I start: the pervasive sex/drugs and alcohol-fueled party lifestyle that is always a part of gay spaces, the astounding amount of superficiality (based on race, looks, age), which manifests itself in gay social groups who all look identical. The prolific number of bottoms, everywhere. The expectation that gay men participate in and enjoy anal sex, and if they don’t they’re treated as pariahs (I dislike anal). Bar culture and all of the ridulousness that goes with it. The effeminate, catty, mean girl behaviors and attitudes that many gay men just never grow out of.

What I realized several years ago is that I am not interested in or attracted to most gay men. I don’t identify as “gay”. I’m definitely homosexual but the word gay has too much baggage, too many negative attributes, and is a lifestyle (for lack of a better word) which just doesn’t suit me in the slightest.

I’m actually a good looking and fit guy (from what I’m told), but I have my own damage to work through from things that happened when I was a kid. I really don’t want to become even more fucked up by subjecting myself to a community which overwhelmingly harbors such negativity.

R38 thank you for your endeavours to strengthen the gay community, it counted even if largely unacknowledged at the time. Great that you found someone special and have been together forr 21 years! x

The problem is when you get a community of men with deep insecurity and baggage, understandably, it will be toxic and shallow.

I’ve had a very different experience than most who have posted here. I love the gay community- all my friends are gay and we have been friends for over a decade now.

All my friends happen to be gays and lesbians. None of us feel like we belong to a larger LGBTUVWXYZ community and we're doing fine.

Can someone pleeaase explain why asexuals need to be added and what they have to do with gay and bi people? Are they oppressed?

I thought my gay friends would welcome me. Instead they weren’t supportive at all. They kind of ignored me.

I had to start all over make completely new friends after I came out

[Quote] I’m definitely homosexual but the word gay has too much baggage, too many negative attributes, and is a lifestyle (for lack of a better word) which just doesn’t suit me in the slightest.

Wow, what the heck is going on in your head?

Sex is so easy that tend to default to that rather than take the time to form bonds and friendships

R8 has it right in many ways. Eldergay here who graduated college in the early Reagan years. Although my core knew I thought I was gay in high school, I was preparing for a career in national/international politics and there was no way I could be out. Remember, it was the Reagan years and I lived in DC. I remained a virgin until I was 26 and became weary my life of asexuality.

When I eventually came out and got to know gay people, I jumped into the deep end. I volunteered with the Whitman-Walker Clinic, the HRC, the Natl Gay & Lesbian Task Force, and the NAMES Project. I moved to Dupont Circle. I joined a gay gym, shopped sat the gay Safeway, and met friends outside of the bars. I even travelled to a circuit event or two.

I was disappointed in the focus on pretty A-Listers and sex appeal (best exemplified by Reichen, the Paris-Jacksons, and the supposed porn 'stars' of the month). Frank Kameny and the Daughters of Bilitis did a helluva lot more for the gay & lesbian community in his life; yet gay men seem to care more about the Aaron Schocks of the world. Pec and waist size measurements were more important than what you've done or what you are trying to do. Yes, straight men talked about breast sizes and 'hotness', but few put a Pamela Anderson or Linda Evangelista on a similar pedestal as did the gays.

I was also disappointed in myself - for mistakenly believing that going to circuit parties and HRC banquets would make me happy.

Hmmm...I might have known r95, doing volunteer work. I gained weight in 1987, though, when I quit smoking, and became invisible.

R93. He is right "gay" is more about fitting into a lifestyle than your orientation.

[quote]Yes, straight men talked about breast sizes and 'hotness', but few put a Pamela Anderson or Linda Evangelista on a similar pedestal as did the gays.

Probably because gay men deal with their equals when for straight guys those were just their trophy fucks or possessions.

When I found out if you're ugly like myself, everyone treats you like you either don't exist or very poorly.

Straights treat me better. Very sad how superficial we are.

I always knew I was gay, and "different," but it didn't help that I was also sensitive. Because I grew up in a small rural town, I really felt excluded, and as so many gays do, I tried harder to make good grades and fit in. Even so, there were quite a few times when I was bullied by other kids. I went to a university that was in a small city, and it opened my eyes. I had a boyfriend and really felt loved. But I was not courageous enough to come out of the closet at that time. Then I moved across the country to take a job, didn't have a boyfriend anymore, and had more experience dating men "discreetly." Eventually I was ready to come out, and I guess I believed that because I was in an urban area, that it would be easier and there would be a network of friends. I got some help in coming out, but what surprised me was the social hierarchy and bullying that existed within the gay community. It was very disappointing.

This is all more about being men than being gay.

Would you like to expand upon that for us, r101?

[quote] What I realized several years ago is that I am not interested in or attracted to most gay men

I wouldn't go that far.

I just had to work on getting away from the bar/club scene, to find gay men, single or coupled, who were living lives outside of it.

There are plenty of us who are living outside the gay "scene". Just as there are plenty of us who don't like anal sex. I had a relatively good time in the scene when I was in my 20's and early 30's, mainly because I was considered very hot and there was never a lack of sex (mutual oral only). However, I was always "out of sync" with the so-called community at large as far as what I called the superficial and adolescent tastes and habits of most gay men.

Now I have had a partner for a bit over 20 years. Once the T's and Q's took over, we were pretty much done with it and walked away from it. We have two long-time lesbian friends (a couple) and that's enough for us. We do, however, try to stay abreast of what's happening politically under Der Pumpkinfuhrer, which could end up affecting all of us, whether or not you are a part of the "community".

Looking back I shouldn’t have been “surprised,” but as an attractive white guy in my 20s I was welcomed into the community with open arms. Every gay sports club, every bar, every gay themed club pursued me. I went out to gay bars several times a week and had endless requests for dates, friendships, and just plain hookups. Once I reached 40 all the attention stopped immediately. I went thru a bit of a depression, but realized that the “gay community” is just obsessed on young hot guys. Now the only ones that approach me are older blacks and Latinos, and ancient white guys. There’s a few young gay outcasts that will occasionally hit me up but I’m sure it’s just daddy issues. I guess I should have locked down a husband in my 20s, but I was having too much fun.

Nevertheless R7, that can and does happen - in fact, more than a few relationships have grown out of hookups.

[quote]Yes, gay culture is shallow and obsessed with looks, wealth and status. So is straight culture.

Yeah, but straight culture does a better job of growing up. And before you argue, think of Puerto Vallarta or P-town.

My great disappointment about the gay community was - is - the inability to commit. And I'd like to crown the asshole who came up with the open relationship concept, because it gave so many countless other assholes an excuse not to even try. And then they complain when they're alone.

That I was a minority within a minority. I'm white by the way.

R107 - such a great point about most gay men not “growing up.” I’m guilty myself, to a lesser extent hopefully, but I still visit PV, Palm Springs, Key West, and P-town on a regular basis. Seeing 40-55 year old guys doing poppers, molly, ecstasy, smoking weed and dressing in embarrassing tank tops and other clothing. I do “let my freak flag fly” in those places, but in the real world, I act and dress very straight because I’m so embarrassed by most gay men and don’t want to be like “that.” I’m also very aware of how others judge that type of behavior being a gay man in Texas in my 40s.

bad taste in music

That was a big one R111, it manifests itself on DL music threads a lot.

No time for all of these but R38 thank you for sharing, I don't find you boring at all. I hope things will get or have got better.

Honestly not much. White gay men have it pretty good in society. (Obviously living in a large liberal major city helps) My brother, two years younger, has been married to a woman for 20 years with two kids and is miserable. He confesses that he is jealous of my frequent travel, the freedom of not having a family to provide for or horrible children’s activities to attend while pretending you’re enjoying them. He says as soon as the kids are out of the house he’s divorcing. I can’t imagine living the awful depressing life of a soccer dad.

[quote] Seeing 40-55 year old guys doing poppers, molly, ecstasy, smoking weed and dressing in embarrassing tank tops and other clothing.

Well, smell HER!

Lack of a welcoming committee that threw a party for me and all that jazz.

That's probably true now, R114, but as the two of you age, he'll be surrounded by extended family.

R117 - I agree that for some people that might be a lonely way to age, but I am the type that loathes family gatherings and prefer to be alone. Luckily I have the money to hire caretakers when I get decrepit.

^ great plan. Until they start beating you.

[quote]Those who spend their days taking selfies to raise their 'profile' are lauded: thirty years ago they would have been treated as vain psychopaths.

This has been such a huge cultural shift, and of course it applies to everyone not just gay men. Even 20 years ago, such behavior would make people ridicule you and call you an asshole, but now it's encouraged.

R112, it’s happening right now on the “Music from the Bush Sr. era” thread. So much Madonna and Mariah.

I never found any sense of community, period. It was all about looks and being young, partying, drinking, drugs etc. I never cared for the gay lifestyle quote unquote at all.................also the entire focus was on sex anytime anywhere and anything short of that you were just sex negative and a self hater. Some community.

Gay men are just as sick and boring as straight men.

Everyone was vapid, shallow, and self serving. It felt meaner then high school at some bars. I felt more included and met wonderful people, volunteering at HIV/AIDS orgs, gay community centers and such. The bar scene was just a cesspool of negativity.

The people. Definitely, the people.

Alcohol and drug consumption.

[quote] The bar scene was just a cesspool of negativity.

Alcohol is a depressant. Are you surprised?

I've found the lesbian community disappointing, but that's also true of most other communities. They tend to be dominated by groupthink and pressure to conform and be regularly involved. While I'm a lesbian, aside from being partnered to a woman I don't have a desire to live my life very differently from most run of the mill straight folks. I'm not very interested in being politically aggressive, dressing and doing my hair a certain prescribed way, or choosing a partner based on what the community wants. I'd love to have more lesbian friends, but it's not easy when I really don't fit in.

[quote]It felt meaner then high school at some bars

Oh, dear!

The fact that there are 50 desperate, aggressive bottoms for every top. Perhaps that’s why so many gay men are bitchy ass queens? Because nobody is getting enough dick.

DL HOMOS :John Maclean does he or doesn't he sound just like MRS DOUBTFIRE?!

People (even gay people) really think gays are some kind of unified group of people only because we like the same sex? Like, we all are homogeneous and restrict our lives and interests around the same scenes?

R8 hit the nail on the head.

I'm going through a similar scenario right now, r82. It's utter delusion yet I maintain the fantasy.

Get out now, r134. Yesterday, if possible.

[quote] People (even gay people) really think gays are some kind of unified group of people only because we like the same sex? Like, we all are homogeneous and restrict our lives and interests around the same scenes?

No, and that's why that crappy NBC sitcom that enables str8 women to treat us as our pets is a lie from top to bottom.

Eldergays, what's it like being part of the gay community when you're no longer sexually active within it? Do you feel less connected to it?

no gay community. just mean cliques. look for your own friends who are well adjusted and not backstabbing slut-whores who sleep with your husband on vermont getaway weekends

r138 I am callinfg YOU out Sam Scheer

[quote]R8 hit the nail on the head.

Ouch!

I came out socially (having sex with men and going to bars) at age 14 in 1975, to friends in 1980 and to family in 1987.

My only disappointments were Donna Summer eventually, and AIDS eventually.

But back in ‘75... nothing! Everything was magical.

Donna Summer always denied the anti-gay stuff. I can't believe her management didn't address those rumors as soon as they started being spread in the early 80s. That's a manager's job. Summer didn't even acknowledge the rumors until about a full decade later, long after the damage had been done. It was horrible PR.

R141 you had the life I wished for.