Georgia Engel is Dead to Me!

I'm still here.

Aww. She was a real sweet heart.

70???

No fucking way.

She was a fucking Christian Scientist! Damn it! 70 is way too young. She actually died on the 12th

And Betty White is STILL alive.

She was only 70? She sure looked old when she was on the MTM show.

Christian Scientists don't believe in blood transfusions, correct?

She was in her twenties while on MTM?

I love her very much. This hurts me a lot. This is an ugly week, She was one of a kind.

That would've made her like 21 when MTM first aired.

I'm calling shenanigans.

They stricter adherent's don't believe in medical intervention r6. The less strict are OK with it.

Jehovah Witnesses specifically don't believe in blood transfusions (unless it is their own blood). One of my buddies is a JW and he had open heart surgery using his own blood.

Here is Georgia with Betty:

I thought she was older than that too (although it seems she really was 70). Never cared for her shtick but it's too bad she died.

Apparently she wouldn't go to the doctor because of her beliefs and her friend that informed the NY Times they didn't know her cause of death. Crazy, since it could've been easily prevented.

r11 Well, we don't know what she died of, so we don't know if it could have been prevented or not. I had no idea she was a CS, let alone such a hardcore one.

What a shitty day.

She was so very gentle. Fly high, sweetest Georgia!

Awww, she was great at what she did. RIP, Georgette.

Bye Georgia!

If that DOB is correct, she was 24 when she started appearing on MTM.

Time flies.

who will be the next two deaths?

Georgia, you were a peach and the apple of our eye.

First Notre Dame, now Georgette... Is Olivia de Havilland finally out of luck?

I liked her very much,but she was 70 like Im 29.

R.I.P. Georgette. 😢

She was very funny in The Drowsy Chaperone on Broadway......sweet on the OBC of the show.

I got...Steamed Heat 🔥!

Very sad. She was wonderful on "Raymond" as well. The parents on that show were better than Ray and the wife.

R23, do you say Georgia Engel WENT TO HELL?!?

Well, that's terrible news. She was a delight to watch. RIP, sweet lady

No. I can’t deal with baby doll voices.

She's one who always looked older than her age. The costumes and wigs on MTM didn't help any either.

Here's a photo from MTM where she does look to be in her 20s.

Well now she is reunited in Himmel with Karen Carpenter.

R29 is creeping me out on so many levels.

Pat smokes!

Georgia looks like a cow next to me!

A very sweet lady. Georgia lived in my neighborhood and I would see her on the bus and at the grocery store. She was so lovely to everyone and was gracious when people recognized her, always.

R29 I had no idea that Georgia Engel sang!

I keep checking to see if Betty White has made a statement yet.

When Betty goes, I'm going to be a fucking mess.

Of what did she die? Diabetes?

I had no idea she really talked like that!

We will likely never know r36

R29's video shows two ladies with teeth gone wrong.

I think Georgia tapped on the MTM show if I'm not mistaken, or maybe it was "The Love Boat"?

Very early newspaper article about her (in Hawaii of all places). A very mature 19 years old in 1968, so if she's been lying about her age she had been since the beginning.

The same newspaper noted in a review of a play she did earlier in that month that she looked too old her boyish looking co-star (and couldn't handle the songs she was given).

Georgia's got STEAM HEAT at 17:15 in this MTM Show episode.

She was fantastic as Amy's evangelical mother on Everybody Loves Raymond. Rest in Peace. Brought a lot of humor to the world.

[QUOTE] Of what did she die?

She probably OD'd on pretentious assholes who contort their sentences in order to conform to an archaic grammar "rule" that only ever existed because Latin/French were considered superior languages to be emulated, ignoring that English is not a Latin language and can't conform to that standard.

[Quote]I think Georgia tapped on the MTM show if I'm not mistaken, or maybe it was "The Love Boat"?

Maybe she did, r40, but she definitely did contemporary dance one year ago. Well, I'll be damned. She also had a pretty good figure.

(She starts at 0:51)

I thought she was way older than that.

R44, I'd bet money hypertension is gonna kill you.

I think she was the last living member of the principals in the Merman DOLLY.

Several of them died not long after the show closed in December 1970. Jack Goode (Horace) died in 1971 and June Helmers (Irene) died of cancer in 1980 at age 38. Dear Danny Lockin (Barnaby) was murdered in 1977 at age 34.

I guess Russell Nype lived the longest, having died last year at age 98

Another vote for “I thought she was older”. But she seemed like a sweet lady and it’s a shame she’s gone.

Any word from Susan Dey?

That bitch could care less.

^Couldn't.

I blame Chrissy Metz!

You seem really nice, R52.

She was cute on MTM.

Was that her real voice or just her shtick?

It was her real voice.

Now I understand why Val Harper tweeted "I WIN. YOU LOSE!" today around 11am.

Oh no! Just saw her in a play not long ago. So sad.

I love Georgia - her sweet voice and smile. RIP dear lady.

R45 She actually looks like she lost a fair amount of weight in that clip which makes me wonder if maybe she had cancer? Christian Scientists don't usually allow themselves to get treated for it.

Her co-star in THE DROWSY CHAPERONE, Edward Hibbert was only 53 at the time (Georgia was 57)

He looks older

Was she a lesbian?

She looked 40 on the MTM show, I had no idea she was only in her 20s back then!

She seemed so sweet, but I always thought there was kind of something wrong with her - mongoloidian or something. Her face and mouth were strange.

She'd murder if cold blood if you crossed her.

Or was that Bea Arthur? Or Jean Arthur? Or Arthur Laurents? Of Arabia?

I never saw the show when it aired but used to watch it after work in the 1980s. I worked a 3-11 shift, went out after work to a diner with friends, then came home. Letterman was on 12:30 - 1:30 am, then an MTM show rerun, then a Bob Newhart rerun, then a movie. It was kind of a ritual. MTM & Bob Newhart kind of grounded me and was comforting in a world where everyone else was asleep and I was trying to unwind.

[quote]r35 I keep checking to see if Betty White has made a statement yet.

Susan fuckin' DEY still silent, natch.

The age seems right. She only joined MTM a few years in so she'd have been like 25. That sounds about right.

Was it suicide?

Seems odd that Georgia was in her 20s during MTM. Seemed like Ted Baxter was supposed to be in his 40s.

I have the famous audio bootleg recording of Ethel's "Last Night" soundboard recording of Dolly and she's just an enchanting Minnie Faye. (Most collectors now think that recording is a combo of two different audience recordings.)

[quote]r71 Seems odd that Georgia was in her 20s during MTM. Seemed like Ted Baxter was supposed to be in his 40s.

Of course, in Hollywood they NEVER match up men with actresses half their age - -

I saw her in a musical called Half Time at the Paper Mill Playhouse about a year or so ago.

She couldn't sing, dance or act.

An on top of that, there's that voice.

Well, r74, most people forgive a lot in older performers just because they're so happy to see them at all.

If you die outside of a doctor's care do they have to do an autopsy?

When Susan Dey's involved, Yes.

She was the female Wilford Brimley.

I thought she was the female Jim Nabors.

Here's Georgia in "The Drowsy Chaperone." Her entrance is at 7:11. The tape's a boot and not so hot but still watchable.

She trained as a dancer. A friend of mine went to school with her and he is 70. Georgia's voice was just like her mother's.

She was a great dancer. Just find the MTM show where she asked the musical question "Steam Heat."

HA! You think I'M gonna take in Victoria Jackson when her time comes, R27? Pardon the pun, but not a chance in Hell!

She had "I was molested" voice.

so Christian Scientists never go to a doctor? What if they break a bone or are in some sort of terrible pain?

Did she live in Princeton, or did she just die there?

You can here her talking on this video, when chatty Betty White shuts up ever so often.

^ hear her

There is a popular but unproven theory that adult women who speak with a little girl's voice that their voices stopped developing when they were first molested.

I used to think there might be something to it but but people like Georgia, who was very honest and never spoke up about about it, made doubt it.

After r89's theory was presented several years ago on DL, I got worried whenever I saw GE on TV.

I know someone who worked with her....that was her voice and she basically was Georgette. She only had the one "character"....but it paid her bills for 55 years so good for her!!!!

Carol Channing was also a Christian Scientist, and she lived until she was 97.

So she’s dead, and Ted Knight is dead, and MTM is dead - but the older actors on that show are still alive:

Betty, Clovis, Ed, And Gavin

You never can tell

R93 Did you mean Cloris?

Are Mr. and Mrs. Armand Linton still alive?

I suppose Susan Dey hasn't commented yet.

She was the reason my series failed

Are Mr. and Mrs. Armand Linton still alive?

Yes, Jack De Mave (age??) and Sheilah Wells (age 78) are still going

R48- June Helmers, who you noted died at 38 of cancer, was also a Christian Scientist who ignored the massive stomach tumor growing inside her which eventually killed her. Carol was indeed a CS, on paper and early theory, but trust me, she most certainly did go to the doctors when needed. A lot.

I like the name Clovis better

I met Georgia Engel at my Dr's office, so she did go to doctors. It all seems shady to me.

I have a memory of Georgia tap dancing on a stage.

I think she did this on The Carol Burnett Show, but I could be wrong.

Can Christian Scientists go to plastic surgeons?

Speaking of people looking older back then, Ted Knight was only 47 when the MTM show started. This is what 47 looked like in 1970, kiddies!

[quote] This is what 47 looked like in 1970, kiddies!

Maybe this is a topic for a thread of its own, but this is fascinating to me. Why did people look so much older back then? You would look at this picture today and guess the guy was in his mid 70s.

R82, see R42.

[quote] Why did people look so much older back then?

Because everyone smoked and ate awfully.

[quote] I saw her in a musical called Half Time at the Paper Mill Playhouse about a year or so ago. She couldn't sing, dance or act.

I don't know about that show, but she was wonderful in Drowsy Chaperone.

So she’s dead, and Ted Knight is dead, and MTM is dead - but the older actors on that show are still alive:

Betty, Clovis, Ed, And Gavin

You never can tell

—Valerie H.

reply 93

I'm comin' Elizabeth! This is the big one. I'm comin' Elizabeth!

R31, that was a great episode, because of Georgia, who played Robert's mother-in-law. Robert goes outside in the middle of the night, and is surprised to see his mother-in-law smoking. In an effort to bond with her, he asks her for a cigarette. He goes back to bed, and his wife asks him why he smells like cigarette smoke. They argue, and his parents come in. His mom slaps him. She asks him when/why did he start smoking. He covers for his mother-in-law by blaming a coworker, "Well, there's this new guy at work who's cool, and he smoked, and I thought maybe it would make me cool, too." His inlaws come out of the guest room to see what the commotion is about. They're told that Robert smokes. His mother-in-law quietly tells him in front of everyone, "Robert, I'm very disappointed in you."

R104, that fascinates me, too. Also look at Carrol O'Connor and Jean Stapleton when "All in the Family" started. They were about 47 and looked much older. I don't think society looks younger because of skin care products. It's got to be be something else, perhaps more preservatives in food....

It is odd r105. People looked SO much older back then. This is 46 year-old Carroll O'Connor and 47 year-old Jean Stapleton from the first season of All In the Family. They both looked like they were 60-plus.

And then there's Maude! 50 year-old Bea Arthur.

Of course Bea smoked and drank, but even 50 year-olds who smoke and drink in 2019 don't look THIS old.

IMHO, back in the 1950s to 1970s, lots of men were drafted and volunteered for the Korean and Vietnam wars; women got married and had lots of kids starting at 18. People took on the stress and responsibility of adulthood sooner and coped by smoking, drinking, popping benzos, and eating red meat and french fries. Adults aged a lot faster.

[quote]r105 Why did people look so much older back then? You would look at this picture today and guess the guy was in his mid 70s.

Caftans don't help ...

I loved her as Georgette.

R70 God help me, that made me laugh out of the blue.

Her Fosse-esque moves in Steam Heat were pretty good. Kind of strange that they'd ask a window dresser to sing and dance at their show, but what the hell.

r107, No, idiotic, various other reasons as well, people spent more time outside, did more physical work, much less technology, electricity wasn't even there till 150 years ago or so, and then electricity at home came just about sometime in the 20th century, and the modern, comfortable lifestyle came just about in the 1950s in the modern countries.

Yes Ted Knight looked older NOT because he chain smoked, but because he had to walk to an out house?

Even 47 year-old smokers these days don't look as old as Ted Knight did.

They valued acting talent more than looks back then. Plus the reverse could happen as well with Harper and MTM looking younger than their actual ages and they played younger too.

Tiny little photo, sorry, but Ted Knight was only 27 here and already looked old. He also looked old by the time he had that bit part in PSYCHO.

There was once quite a market for people who looked basically middle aged their whole career. William Demarest, William Conrad, Buddy Ebsen, a whole bunch of actors looked old their entire careers.

Here's Ted Knight at 40 in an Outer Limits episode.

I would've fucked Ted Knight at 40.

R124

Knight also played a Nazi officer if Combat! around the same time.

He looked good with the greying hair (not white), and he was a good dramatic actor!

I hated the "Ted" character as it seemed to typecast him in comedy afterwards, but it probably made him his big money at that point, so good for him getting the success.

When I was a kid in the late 60s and early 70s, my aunts all had "old lady" white hair that was set every week at the hairdressers.

Didn’t she play Craig T Nelson’s mom or something? And he’s around 70.

[quote]And then there's Maude! 50 year-old Bea Arthur.

Costume designer Rita Riggs, on creating Maud's dubious fashions:

Betty White was the oldest Golden Girl and outlived them all, she's also the oldest MTM cast member and might just outlive all of them, too!

I know people in real life that look 12-15 years older than their real ages. In Hollywood now you probably can’t make it without skin treatments/botox etc . Makeup is so much better now also. I still can’t believe Gloria Swanson was only 50 and considered an old spinster.

Gloria Swanson looked great for 50, by the standards of those days.

I was NEVER considered an old spinster, you bloody stool!

Angela Lansbury is another who always looked old beyond her years. In Gaslight she was 19 but looked much older.

Is this a Rule Of Three call???

It's really a combination of lots of things.

People (especially actors) take much better care of themselves now with fitness, diet, skincare, hair and health. Also: fashion.

And, youth culture has also taken over. People used to WANT to dress like mature adults. To want to dress like a "kid" would have been considered ludicrous, or to have childish hobbies like collect comic books or go out clubbing past 30.

And, the emphasis on youth also means that youthful looking type actors are now hired over mature looking ones....which is why we don't have the great character actors today like we used to pre 1980. It's one reason Broadway is so boring now...everyone is a "good" looking but bland. If you have big talent but you're not physically youthful looking, you're shit out of luck in the entertainment business now.

R136 might be wise for them to invest in a good plastic surgeon?

Has the cast of MTM issued statements???

[quote] To want to dress like a "kid" would have been considered ludicrous, or to have childish hobbies like collect comic books or go out clubbing past 30

My dear young man. In MY day we certainly went out 'clubbing', but it was to a chic nightspot with a live orchestra, not some loud thumping warehouse. And you are correct, we dressed marvelously, not in sweatpants and t-shirts.

DL lets me come to feel sad and wistful.

God needed an Engel [sic].

I wonder if she's related to the Little House on the Prairie Engels.

BUMP

Why didn't we cherish and laud her more while she was with us??

Where is her Mame? Her Norma Desmond??