Mrs. Kennedy

[quote] I wonder who or what she would’ve been in other generations.

On assistance.

Zzzzz...

who dat

JBKO had two passions: Books & Money. Not necessarily in that order.

The only two things she ever gave a damn about were her immediate family (her first husband (I don't think she gave a flying fuck about Onassis; she was in love with his money) and children) and money. She had what was called "money lust." When married to Onassis she spent his money like water. She was a spendthrift when married to JFK, too. Exploding after seeing how much money she was spending (she couldn't really account for where it went) he told her if he didn't have an income aside from his salary as President they'd be bankrupt. Jackie was always greedy.

I don't think we can rewrite history on Jackie Onassis. Getting married to JFK was understandable. It appears that she and her sister were raised and indoctrinated to marry a rich man. After JFK died, I'm assuming she was not destitute. She could have been a working woman. The marriage to Onassis was a money grab.

Welfare Queen

Instagram whore.

YouTube star extraordinaire!

She worked for YEARS. Not just her "final days".

Real Housewives of Chappaquiddick

Wow! A lot of haters on this thread. Get a life boys.

"She worked for YEARS. "

I think her "work" was more along the lines of volunteer work, not actual "work." I guess she had to find something to do with her time. Maybe it made her feel useful.

She certainly wasn't the Queen of All Lesbians at one time!

Did you idiots read the article? She edited over 100 books.

She could have been a Courtesan at The Court of Versailles.

Today, she probably would have been a Melania Trump. She is very close in personality to Melania, both money hungry above all. Jackie's greed was absolutely extreme, even for a society woman.

Jackie was no paragon of morality herself, in fact she was a sleaze. And yet she had the nerve to trash others.

Ari wanted a "Trophy Wife"; Jackie played 'Hard to Get."

(Ari, give her a head start. There is nothing more intoxicating than the illusion of being chased.)

She wasn't even attractive. No wonder hubby fucked around.

My Mother thought her voice was ridiculous.

Melania lacked her education or interest in the world. Melania is just a common whore.

Her eyes were on either sides of her head. She looked like a flounder.

don't hate anyone. seriously, I know it seems weird to some here, but don't hate anyone. I don't care if you are on welfare, don't care if you live in a trailer park. don't care if you are poor, I don't hate you, and honestly, don't know why anyone would hate you for that.

r18, Christopher Hitchens calling someone else ill-mannered or a sleaze is a joke. He was a misogynistic pig--I can't put any stock in his claims about morality.

Jackie married Onassis only because she was panicked when RFK was shot in 1968--she herself said later she felt then shee had to get her kids out of the USA because she felt people were gunning for Kennedys. She grabbed at Onassis's marriage offer to get herself out of the US, and then realized she had made a horrible mistake.

R25, she was planning to marry Onassis before Bobby was killed. Bobby successfully prevailed on her to delay a wedding, to wait until after the election lest her remarriage hurt his electoral chances.

I think she was very attractive and she was attractive right up until she had her last illness. She was born in an era and in a class where women didnt work and had to make a good catch. She liked money but it was mainly because she was always surrounded by money but never had any of her own.

JFK never had to earn a buck in his life and had trust funds. She put up with alot of crap from jfk and deserved some monetary benefits in my opinion. WHen JFK died, his trusts were worth 10 million, not enuf to live at the upper levels of society forever as a widow with 2 kids, when you are the widow of the president of the united states.

She married Onassis not just for money but for the security he could provide to shield herself and her kids from the masses. She also liked much older father type figures and Onassis was much more to her than just his checkbook. She settled for a relatively measly tiny percentage of Onassis s estate at 20 million tax free after he died in 1975, His estate was worth $500 million dollars in 1975.

Her last relationship, Maurice templesman, was a businessman and a very astute investor and he turned her net worth into around 100 million or so by the time she died.

J Onasis was very very bright and she worked as a book editor for almost 20 years right up to the time she got too sick to continue. SHe didnt need the money, she did it for the joy of the work and the alternative would have been to live as a rather aimless jet setter.

She also produced 2 pretty spectacular kids. You cant say her life wasnt well lived. My opinion.

She must have had sufficient funds to resettle abroad without marrying for even more money . But she lived mostly in New York during the marriage. Who knows the real reason she did it? Maybe she didn't know herself.

Jackie often purchased hankies from charlie's cart outside Grand Central Station. He remembers her fondly.

10 million dollars was a huge amount of money in 1963 when John Kennedy died. By 1966, some university professors were earning as much as 30 thousand dollars a year, and more than happy with that much money.

R21 I have always wondered about her whisper voice. Why was that? She must’ve been taught that extreme lady like attributes were charming.

R30 It would be close to 80 billion in the 2019 economy. No wonder she married him.

^ according to the handy dandy inflation calculator.

JKBO I think she really loved JFK Sr. Kind of like the dad she never had.

I would love to see the diamonds Maurice gave her. She must’ve had some beautiful jewels.

"She married Onassis not just for money but for the security he could provide to shield herself and her kids from the masses. "

BullSHIT. Security? That was just an excuse she used to justify marrying the repulsive, gross Onassis. She was already rich, but she wanted to be FILTHY rich, and marrying Onassis was the way to get the endless piles of money that she craved. And I sure as hell wouldn't call 20 million tax free dollars "measly", especially in the seventies. It was a HUGE settlement, which she actively sought. I think she had the sense to realize that if she had tried for more Christina Onassis would have fought her with all the legal means at her disposal. Anyway, Jackie was satisfied with the millions she got after Onassis died. She got what she wanted. She sure never gave a damn about Onassis personally. While he was on his deathbed she was traipsing around Europe, getting her hair done and going to bullfights. Christina could have contested Jackie's demands for millions, but in the end she acquiesced just to get rid of her. Supposedly she said to Jackie, "I hope I never have to lay eyes on you again!"

A FASD sufferer no matter who she'd wed.

She wasn’t greedy men wanted her it was a deal. Yes, I guess she was greedy, but she was raised to stay within a wealthy class.

Onassis was a political and financial supporter of the fascist Greek colonels, before and during their marriage. He made Trump look like an amateur. Says a lot about her values that she chose to marry him. At least Melania needed the cash.

She was flawless. Chain-smoked. Always well put together. Very pleasant. She didn't actually speak, She just moved her lips.

While attending George Washington University, Jackie won a twelve-month junior editorship at Vogue magazine.

On her first day at Vogue, the managing editor advised her to quit and go back to Washington. According to biographer Barbara Leaming, the editor was concerned about Jackie's marriage prospects; she was 22 years of age and was considered too old to be single in her social circles. Jackie followed the advice, left the job and returned to Washington after only one day of work.

After she was hired at the Washington Times-Herald, she was given the position of "Inquiring Camera Girl". The position required her to pose witty questions to individuals chosen at random on the street and take their pictures for publication in the newspaper alongside selected quotations from their responses.

R41 A lack of respect for one's health and that of those around them is flawless?

Jackie was ugly. Even she knew this, that's why she wore those huge fucking sunglasses at all times.

She was our greatest First Lady!

She could put on her earrings without looking in the mirror.

Mother always told us, "Ask intelligent questions".

Jeez, Mamie's ALL over this board!

Did any of you dildo breaths sit down and have a conversation with Mrs. Kennedy? Did she personally tell you any of these claims you espouse? Yeah, I didn’t think so. Shut the fuck up. This woman did more in her life than any of you will ever dream of doing.

"This woman did more in her life than any of you will ever dream of doing."

You are one stupid cunt. All she did in her life was be rich and stylish.

Jackie was a very accomplished shopper.

Jackie Kennedy Onassis wouldn't like to hear you swearing like that, r49.

R27, her estate at her death was work about 200 million. Templesman did a great job investing for her.

[quote]She would consider you as much a vulgarian as she did LBJ

Her second husband made LBJ look like Little Lord Fauntleroy.

Why the hell don't ya homosexuals luv on me . I was a First Ladybird too y'all and I could take Lyndon's 9 inches six was ta sunday.

R53, Actually, it was Andre Meyer who took the $26 million she got from Christina Onassis and increased it exponentially through wise investing.

As her father did Christina continued to use Jackie.

Jackie loved money and Ari and his daughter loved Jackie's cache.

What's going on with that poor little rich girl, her husband and her gigolo father?

She looks like she has "special needs"; why did anyone think she was a fashion icon? What was JFK thinking?

R57 isn't making any sense. Drunk, maybe?

Her head was too wide.

All that nonsense comparing herself and her philandering husband to the Lerner & Loewe musical "Camelot" was nauseating.

My, the grapes are sour. What a beehive of judgmental ninnies here.

So Jackie peddled her pussy to the highest bidder. So what. I'd do the same and so would some of you, too.

As for Christina Onassis hatred of Jackie, maybe she did hate her, but that didn't stop her from, after Ari was dead and the settlement was made, calling on Jackie in New York, new boyfriend in tow whom she wanted to impress. That little nugget of dish was supplied by either Nancy Tuckerman or Tish Baldridge, I get the two mixed up. And Jackie, according to her, was always gracious to Christina and her various boyfriends.

The problem with Jackie is that she could be a bully when it came to image. She made William Manchester's life miserable after she requested he write about JFK and the assignation.

assassination

Well, R58 isn't either. But, if someone has no sense of history, that person will be unaware of her cultural relevance to the times.

As a photojournalist in the 1950's

[quote] She was born in an era and in a class where women didnt work and had to make a good catch.

And Jacqueline Bouvier was fine with that. She had female workers washing her floors, doing her dishes and scrubbing her toilets. I don’t recall her bemoaning her lucky privileged status and dreaming about scrubbing her own dirty toilets.

She’d probably start a “lifestyle blog”, like Goop.

All the rich bored wives eventually start a “lifestyle blog”: “Look at me, arranging fuchsia petunias on my rustic dining table in my villa in Tuscany!”.

Or she’d become a yoga teacher. There are some bored upper-class women who love teaching yoga. It’s not hard and it makes you feel ‘spiritual and accomplished’ - even though you’re just repeating platitudes in every class about “life is love” and “find your inner zen”.

A lot of judgement taken out of context here. A lot of you forget that she was born into a world where women didn't have careers and the only way for a woman to better herself was through marriage to a wealthy man. Janet Bouvier instilled in her daughters a worship of money and a ruthless snobbery born from her own insecurities. Just like people are brainwashed with religion from an early age, Jackie and Lee were taught almost from the womb that money is the be all and the end all and that their only hope for success in life was to marry well, and they believed it.

Jackie's parents taught their daughters to construct personalities and appearances solely to attract rich men. Did marrying wealthy make either woman happy? I doubt it. Financially secure, yes, but not happy. Reading between the lines, I imagine Jackie's spendthrift ways were a vice that filled a void. When Kennedy cheated on her, she bought beautiful things for herself, the more pain she endured, the more she needed,

Her father was a drunk and an adulterer with a waxing and waning fortune that incited much embarrassment, Her mother was a bitter, cruel, pretentious snob. Her sister; a true narcissist. Jackie endured humiliation and hurt from Kennedy's infidelities: he gave her STI's that may have contributed to her multiple miscarriages, she lost a baby at a few days old and a month later her husband's brains were blown out in front of her. I think I'd marry Onassis too after that!

The fact that Jackie chose to work when she didn't need to says multitudes about the woman she became. Can you imagine Diana, Princess of Wales doing any kind of actual paid work? Or any other woman of their statue? Melania Trump?

Yes, Jackie was a shallow, money- hungry, materialistic snob when she was young, however, I believe through pain and trauma she grew to become a very real, thoughtful, and earthy person. I think she learnt a lot in her life and grew to even resent the old WASPy crowd she was born into.

Carly Simon was one of Jackie's closest friends and in the last decade of her life Jackie preferred to surround herself by creative, alternate types; writers and artists on Martha's Vineyard etc., people perhaps she wished she could be like, but because of social constructs, she never could be, I think she evolved to become a much better person. Lee, however, never did. Lee didn't have Jackie's intelligence or insight and so died the shallow, pretentious woman her mother had created her to be, Sad really.

She would have probably become a Vogue editor.

While attending George Washington University, Jackie won a twelve-month junior editorship at Vogue magazine.

On her first day at Vogue, the managing editor advised her to quit and go back to Washington. According to biographer Barbara Leaming, the editor was concerned about Jackie's marriage prospects; she was 22 years of age and was considered too old to be single in her social circles. Jackie followed the advice, left the job and returned to Washington after only one day of work.

She was a very intelligent woman, smart enough to know that she would never be happy without shit-tons of money, and would never be able to earn as much as she wanted to have. So she married for money, and by her middle years she had enough to live as an independent woman.

She wanted to be wealthy and to live in luxury on her own terms, which is something that most people want and hardly any achieve. She managed it, and if you brought her back from the grave and asked her if she'd do anything differently, she'd probably say no.

Editing books wasn’t even her idea. It was suggested to her by a White House official, who saw she was bored and lonely (after her kids moved away).

And it was only thanks to her connections that she got the job. She probably took a spot away from a person who worked much harder to earn it.

[quote] In her new permanent home on Fifth Avenue ... With Caroline, 18, studying for a term in London and John established at Collegiate, friends noticed that [Bouvier] was FORLORN and restless.

[quote] While having tea with friend Letitia Baldridge, her onetime social secretary at the White House, Jackie talked about her lack of direction. Baldridge SUGGESTED publishing

[quote] Jackie said she was UNSURE how to approach the book world, Baldridge said, “Look, you know [Viking Press PRESIDENT] Tommy Guinzburg, why don’t you talk to him?”. Jackie did know Guinzburg socially - he was a Yale classmate of her stepbrother Hugh D. Auchincloss.

[quote] Guinzburg said to her: “You’re not really EQUIPPED to be an editor. It’s not that you don’t have the talent for it, the ability for it, but you don’t have the background and the TRAINING and you, I think, would suffer in a publishing house because that would set up some kind of COMPETITIVE atmosphere with the other editors. But what you can do is be a CONSULTING editor.”

[quote] Following a controversy over Viking’s decision ... Jackie resigned and took the job of associate editor at Doubleday. There she attended editorial BOARD MEETINGS where she was expected to pitch her ideas and argue for acquisitions. Jackie joined the fray, and when her ideas were sometimes rejected, she took it in stride.

So basically they set up a ‘special snowflake’ position for her - because she didn’t have any relevant experience for the job. And notice that she didn’t start at the bottom like everyone else - they immediately boosted her to the top, thanks to nepotism.

She didn’t want to “work” - she was bored out of her mind and cajoled into “taking on a project” by her friends. And they picked not just some humdrum project for her (like accounting), but a more glamorous industry (publishing), where she could attend soirées and rub shoulders with bohemian poets and novelists. They then set everything up for her and shielded her from any (real working life) competition from other editors.

She was a great American, and her commitment to the arts in the White House transformed our national relationship with culture. Her life made a difference. Her courage and composure during the dark days of November 1963 were extraordinary. She merits no criticism. She needs no defense.

[quote] a lot of you forget that she was born into a world where women didn't have careers and the only way for a woman to better herself was through marriage to a wealthy man.

When she was watching her maids scrub feces out of her toilets, did she want to trade places?

Having a “career” means starting at the bottom and making your way up. Show me another worker who was immediately appointed “consulting editor” with her own office at the START of their career. Her “career” was built on nepotism.

It’s funny because some rich people want to have it all. They spend 20 years out of college enjoying a privileged, no-office work life. And then they grow bored of the rich, jet-set life (when they’ve seen all the best beaches of the world, tasted all the soufflés and martinis, and realised how pointless such a life is) and want to “jump back in the working world”. But, tellingly, they want to jump in at a HIGHER level, as if they worked their ass off for those 20 years.

[quote] she was perusing Chekhov at age six

Reading Chekhov and understanding Chekhov are two different things. Chekhov foresaw the end of the monarchy / aristocracy and the start of the workers’ revolution. He was also, ironically, quite critical of the upper-class (like the Bouviers themselves). Did she understand that at “age 6”? And if not, then what’s the point of reading Checkhov.

[quote] She merits no criticism. She needs no defense.

She was a public figure, so of course she does. One can’t have it both ways: fame and high status without any criticism. And in a democracy, the fantasy of them as some kind of Monarchical royal couple (husband and “first lady”) is a bit ironic. It’s almost like, despite all the progress of becoming a democratic republic, people still gravitate like sheep towards a monarchical structure: King, Queen and their holy offspring.

"a lot of you forget that she was born into a world where women didn't have careers and the only way for a woman to better herself was through marriage to a wealthy man." No, she was born into a world where it was possible for a woman had a career, but where almost all women's careers paid little. In the early 20th century woman could support herself and even work in interesting fields such as the arts, sciences, or journalism, but she'd never be paid as much as her male counterparts and would never be promoted to the upper levels of her profession or be taken as seriously as a man with half her skill.

Since Miss Bouvier wanted money and had none, her options were pretty much limited to an advantageous marriage or acting. And she wasn't really beautiful enough to be a major actress.

Agree with both R66 and R67; good comments!

R75, Bouvier grew up on Park Avenue. This whole narrative that she had no money and had no other option but to marry is just smoke & mirrors. She had more options than any other female in the country.

And it’s not about salary either. Look at all the other modern socialites. What, they’d give it all up to become ‘high-paid’ accountants working 10-16 hour days with no holidays? Come on now. She was no Cinderella - she was highly privileged, and women of privilege prefer to find avenues of multiplying their wealth that don’t involve back-breaking, boring junior office work.

If after JFK's death Jackie ended up with his $10 million dollar trust, there would be no need for money. $10 M invested conservatively at 5%, yields $500k/year in interest. When she left D.C. and moved to NYC she paid $200k for her 1040 Fifth Ave apartment. That apartment today is worth around $40 million. In 1965, the median annual income for a family of four was $6,900/year. She would have earned 70x the annual median income in interest on that trust. Poor Jackie.

r18 Christopher Hitchens was a petty bitter old bitch, like most of you here I think he was jealous of Jackie. Why pull apart Jackie Onassis but be content to worship at the alter of a Kardashian or Instagram influencer or vulgar Youtuber?

Who cares if she loved money and beautiful things and married for wealth, she wouldn't be the first woman to do so and she certainly wouldn't be the last? People think she married Onassis for the money, that she was using him and that he was getting nothing out of the deal.

People forget that in 1969 she was the most admired woman in the world, sought after and fawned over and that's why Onassis married her, he wanted her and she made him look good for business relations with the US. Both were benefitting from the marriage.

Most who lived through that week in late November 1963 admire her purely because of her strength of character; the poise, dignity and decorum she displayed after the assassination, the funeral and it's aftermath. Her husband's head was blown apart beside her, she held his skull together to prevent his brains from seeping out so the world would not see. No one can take that away from her.

[quote] Christopher Hitchens was a petty bitter old bitch, like most of you here I think he was jealous of Jackie.

Absolutley. That was Hitchens, a bitter old queen and I loved him for it. I'm totally jealous of Jackie. However, I'm more jealous of Katie Holmes. A few years ago when she made The Kennedy's: After Camelot she got to wear recreations of Jackie's later in life outfits and pretended to live in the most exacting replica of Jackie's apartment. To get paid for a job where you pretend to be Jackie Kennedy answering rotary phones, watching an old tube TV in the corner, smoking cigarettes and yelling at JFK Jr. and the Secret Service must have been an experience. Absolute envy.

R18 too bad Hitchens can't write a clear, straight-forward sentence or paragraph. Dreadful text.

r80 that is a very, very good reproduction of Jackie's apartment, well done that set decorator

I worked with her at Doubleday (elder gay here) -- and I can tell that you she was not smart -- or if she was, she hid it pretty well. Sometimes we thought that maybe she was too shy to be smart, or too self-conscious, but none of us remember her as ever saying or doing much that indicated intelligence. What she was, however, was an instant link to anyone in the world we needed to talk to. Several times that was extremely handy.

One weird thing about her: she kept her voice down to a hushed whisper so that at meetings (if she deigned to attend, as no one was going to tell her what to do) we all had to shut up and strain to hear her. It was an unwritten law that whoever sat next to her would be responsible for telling the people at the other end of the room what she'd said (if she ever said anything). The other unwritten law -- we never talked about her to the press, or anyone else.

^^^smells of bullshit to me, they're just generalisations anyone could make up about Jackie.

She loved money, her family and the fame. Her accomplishment as First Lady was redecorating the White House.

I always admired the fact that Jackie got a 9 to 5 office job when she didn't have to. She could've just been a rich lady on the UES but she went to work instead. Good for her.

Pearl diver.

I saw this thread and thought, r1 should say, “on assistance.” And sometimes DL is magical.

The Kennedy girls said Jackie would have been a perfect soccer player.

She went through a lot. She survived only to die young. She edited books. She saved Grand Central Station and refurbished the Whitehouse. She gave America class. She loved her children. No one can take any of this away from her.

You can bet if she were alive she wouldn't care what a bunch of old queens have to say about her on Data lounge. Fags are a hoot!

Her accent was SO contrived, even by the standards of that time. She always sounded as if she was trying to cover up a speech impediment.

The way she speaks here is how her real accent sounded most likely. Nothing special AT ALL.

Why did anyone give a shit about these two?

Her transformation of the White House (with the help of her rich friends and the best in their fields) was accomplishment enough. That's something even Trump can't ruin. Exquisite taste.

When I had to leave the White House I was BROKE!

r70 and r72, Jackie Onassis wasn't your anonymous college classmate aspiring to land a job in publishing, your cousin, the working frau in the next cubicle, or the lady next door.

She was Jackie Fucking Onassis. Love her, hate her or be indifferent, it's laughable that you complain the she took a job from a toiling-in-obscurity, more deserving candidate, for the job Onassis held. She herself wasn't "someone else". She was Jackie O, among the most famous people on the planet.

Do people like that have to bother with "working their way up?" While one can concede your overall point that it's not fair, it's not right, still, to argue that one of the most unique human beings alive a that time shouldn't have been treated as such is, kindly put, beside the point.

Again, she was a moneyed bully. There is much to be critical of Jackie O. But peddling her pussy and working as an editor aren't among them.

Omg.

Here's some levity. Followed by more of Jackie's apartment in After Camelot.

Jackie, at the only damn dining room table she could afford apparently.

James Spader lived with the Kennedys in the apartment for a while. His parents had kicked him out and JFK Jr. was like come live with us, my mom won't care.

Jackie never skipped school.

Filmed in Canada, the special effects in After Camelot were pretty fantastic.

This was really Caroline's only appearance. JFK Jr. required three actors to play him as he aged.

Model airplanes with Jr.

New Yorkers and their bikes.

Where can we watch that movie R103?

Is it true she used to be into scat?

She must have had PTSD every time she picked up that damn phone. Yet she smiled every time she answered. Always someone dead, someone shot, someone missing.

Beware of the men lurking in the bushes in Central Park.

Don't FUCK with her kids.

r104 The only way I was able to watch it was buying it digitally on Amazon Prime.

Bobby won California, time to call it a night.

What’s with the asshole posting some movie biopic as if it were a documentary?

Christina was a cunt.

But Jackie couldn't be bothered.

Her wedding gown won worldwide acclaim but she cuntishly disliked it. The dress was gorgeous but she disdained it because she wanted something more "modern." The woman who designed it, Ana Lowe, worked like hell to create a memorable dress (she succeeded). And under trying circumstances; a flood in Lowe's workshop 10 days before the wedding ruined the bride's gown and nine of the bridal-party's dresses. The designer and her staff worked through eight days (the original time was eight weeks) to reconstruct the gowns and get them delivered on time. Instead of an estimated $700 profit, Lowe lost $2,200 on the project.

Lowe never got the credit and salary she deserved for creating Jacqueline Bouvier's wedding gown. When asked who created her iconic gown, cunty Jackie didn't even have the courtesy to reveal Lowe's name. She just said "a colored woman."

Jackie married Ari for the money and to stick it in her sister Lee who had slept with her husband.

The whole Camelot thing was a cooked up story by her after the assassination. Total bullshit.

Mrs. Kennedy might not have been "smart", but she was both shrewd and determined.

Clever girl.

She liked fine things, travel, aesthetic experiences and money. So marrying a rich guy would always have been a way to go.

I thought Katie Holmes was surprisingly perfect as Jackie in that TV movie by the way. She especially captured what I always imagine was Jackie’s fun side. Much better than Natalie Portman, who just walked around looking tragic.

Jean Tripplehorns' version of Mrs. Kennedy in Grey Gardens is probably the closest to how I remember her.

[quote]Did she understand that at “age 6”? And if not, then what’s the point of reading Checkhov.

Probably not. It was a good start, and she could process what she read as she got older.

"The Kennedys After Camelot" is on Amazon Prime.

r18 Yesss I always thought Jean Tripplehorn looked like Jackie before that. It's the eye spacing.

I loved Katie Holmes' portrayal because she did it so well and they covered so much of her life, including her death. They showed so much of her private life that we never saw. There are many photos of her apartment out there, but maybe one or two of her in it. They went to great lengths to get her apartment correct. Everything is spot on. I've seen other movies/shows that depict her apartment and it's always terrible. I remember one was some 1980s modern freakshow. Is there a thread on her apartment that I can resurrect?

It occurred to me that they probably didn't show much of Caroline because she's still alive. Lee also wasn't in either series, but she's now dead. I'm sure Katie Holmes is available for The Bouviers.

R119, bragging about reading Chekhov “at 6” when the child clearly doesn’t understand the socio-political themes of Checkhov’s work is just laughable.

A kid can read Orwell’s Animal Farm (it’s easy enough) and then for the rest of their lives think it’s just a story about a farm.

[quote] People forget that in 1969 she was the most admired woman in the world

By “the world”, you mean only some countries on 2 continents out of 6 inhabited ones, R79? Narrow definition of the “the world”. Most Asians, etc, didn’t even know who she was.

Jackie married for money but she wouldn't do anal. Onassis had Maria Callas for that.

Part of the appeal of Katie Holmes in the role for me was Katie’s own air of mystery, the strange cynical marriage etc. rather like Jackie herself.

I no hore! I great laidee like Meez Kennedy!

My late mom was a major Jackie admirer. MAJOR. It might be a good thing she's gone, because she would be aghast at some of your commentaries!

Again r122 it's a good start. God, what a pretentious ass you are.

Someone bragging about so-called ‘reading’ Chekhov “at age 6” and yet I’m the “pretentious” one, R128? Lol, sure, Jan.

[quote] it's laughable that you complain the she took a job from a toiling-in-obscurity, more deserving candidate, for the job Onassis held. She herself wasn't "someone else". She was Jackie O, among the most famous people on the planet.

I’m not “complaining”. I’m stating a fact (since some people might be unaware of how she landed the editorial gig). She was famous for being famous, R94. She married well and that’s her claim to fame - being a powerful heterosexual president’s BREEDING partner.

She’s the same as Marie Antoinette - married well, was good in the sack, nice wigs and that’s it. If Antoinette hadn’t married the Kind of France, nobody would give a toss about her. And if Bouvier hadn’t become Kennedy’s matrimonial sex partner - nobody would care about her either.

[quote] one of the most unique human beings alive a that time

Mary, R94!

*King

Does anyone know if that scene in "The Crown" was based on actual/factual events? I can believe that JBKO was catty and said plenty of mean things about the Queen after the state dinner. What I want to know is whether or not it actually occurred that J scheduled a meeting with the Queen afterwards intending to go to Buckingham Palace. The Queen agreed to meet, but at Windsor Castle, instead. The Queen brought the big guns with the display at Windsor and did some major flexing on her there. Again, just wondering if it really happened.

I know that during the 1970s when the Queen was to visit New York, Jackie had her people reach out to the Queen to offer her services as a sort of guide. The Palace clapped back stating that the Queen does not seek the company of ordinary civilians during her visits abroad. OUCH!

Again r129 it's about getting to know the material and then understanding it later. That's a very good thing, hardly pretentious.

Of course it’s pretentious, R133. If she had actually understood it she’d grow up hating herself. Because Chekhov’s biting socio-economic commentary was aimed at people like her & her family - upperclass snobs.

[quote]If she had actually understood it she’d grow up hating herself.

It's just a fucking story, honey. Reading "Roots" didn't make me hate being white.

The rug sure did match the drapes. And she had a nice tush.

There was a scene in the Katie Holmes movie where she’s newly married to Onassis and they’re dancing and partying on I think New Year’s eve, and she’s being rather madcap. I really enjoyed it, it seemed believable given the tales that early on she rather liked old Ari.

r132. I don't know. I did find this video of Jackie and the Queen in 1965. Apparently Jackie went to England to attend the unveiling of their JFK memorial with the Queen. After the ceremony Jackie and Prince Philip are shown standing together for a photo-op but the Queen is nowhere to be seen at that point.

Jackie was a typical spoiled venal society woman. If she were of this era, she would be running a mommy blog bemoaning the lack of gluten free, child friendly restaurants in her upscale neighborhood. Jackie's most revolting quality was not even her greed but her utter contempt for everyone she met , all while eagerly grubbing for gifts from them. She spewed her venom at everyone from the great Charles de Gaulle (privately of course) to Martin Luther King (evidently society cunt Jackie thought that he was immoral ). Her "work " was the same type of "work " that rich ,bored women have done for ages. As a previous commenter pointed out these types like Jackie don't do any work for years, and then suddenly demand to jump ahead of line to a prestigious position.

R135, Roots criticised smthg that happened 200 years ago. Why should you hate yourself for events 2 centuries ago. Chekhov criticised the elite class (specifically a lot of bored upper-class women) that was much closer to modernity and Bouvier.

[quote]Jackie was a typical spoiled venal society woman. If she were of this era, she would be running a mommy blog bemoaning the lack of gluten free, child friendly restaurants in her upscale neighborhood.

No, she probably would've gotten an MBA and would've gone to work doing something in the business world, like many upper-class women do today.

Jackie was a woman of her time. Upper-class women didn't work back then, they married well and lived a socialite life. It was what it was.

Good lord r140. Give it the fuck up already.

You seem to be more bothered than me, R142. Calm down.

[quote] she probably would've gotten an MBA and would've gone to work doing something in the business world, like many upper-class women do today.

Modern upperclass Hilton sisters and York sisters are busy getting their ‘MBAs’ too...

[quote]Carly Simon was one of Jackie's closest friends and in the last decade of her life

This is correct. Many years ago, Carly Simon told me a funny story about her and Jackie. They decided to go to the movies. And Jackie wanted to go to the first show, so there wouldn't be many people and they wouldn't be bothered. The trick, said Carly, was to figure out the theater that was playing the film they wanted to see that wouldn't cause Jackie to pass a theater showing Oliver Stone's "JFK" on the way. Carly said she was so preoccupied with Jackie seeing JFK on the way, that when she got to the theater, she blurted out, "Have you seen JFK?" She said Jackie was shocked by the question and scolded her, "Of course not, Carly!"

Nice cherry-picking r144. The Hiltons are trash.

If Jackie were born in a later generation, she probably would've gotten an education and gone to work professionally, like the later Bouviers all did. Babe Paley's daughter became an urban planner.

Carly Simon lived very near Jackie's place on Gay Head. Gay Head, next to Menemsha. They both lived in a tiny little corner of Martha's Vineyard. Menemsha is my favorite Carly Simon song.

Gay Head. I came across an advertisement a year or two ago for a portion of the Red Gate Farm on Martha's Vineyard. The listing said the farm had been in the same family for over 40 years. I looked up the farm and it was Jackie's farm. Caroline was selling off large 70 acre chunks. The Obamas were spotting looking at one. Here's an aerial video from one of the chunks being sold. One chunk of acreage came with 1400 feet of Atlantic coastline. It was all Jackie's and Caroline still has a ton more.

[quote]Babe Paley's daughter became an urban planner.

How interesting for her. I wish I'd known her.

Gay Head

Man she's gorgeous in OP. Photogenic or was she beautiful in real life too I wonder. Any eldergays saw her?

R147 Watching that video, I couldn't help but think: With all the money Caroline has, that is a very cunty thing to sell that pristine land instead of donating it to the state as a park.

[quote]Menemsha is my favorite Carly Simon song.

I remember the first (only) time I heard it. I thought, "If those fucking brats sing the word Menemsha one more time . . . ."

The only thing she wanted was $$$ and lots of it.

Caroline protected the land. Only 5 more houses can be built on that property. 3 additional homes for Caroline's children and one on each parcel she is selling. It's so large that even from aerial views Jackie's large home, barns and pool can't even be seen. The area is entirely protected. If the area weren't protected the land would be worth sooooooooooo much more. I'm sure Caroline's kids will get an instant permit to build whatever house they want, but the buyers of these chunks will have a hell of a time getting anything permitted. I'm sure it will happen eventually, but it will be pain in the ass for them. Perhaps one was smart and demanded Caroline get all permits and approvals in place for a house before purchase.

Something that's really freaky about this farm is that if you stand on the beach and look directly out at the Ocean, you are looking at the exact area where JFK Jr.'s plane went down.

Here's the other piece of the farm that was listed.

Jackie's farm has got to be something else in person. From the areal shots of the other chunk Caroline was selling you can't tell if something is a massive pine tree or a small shrub. There's nothing to get a sense of scale.

" Bouvier grew up on Park Avenue. This whole narrative that she had no money and had no other option but to marry is just smoke & mirrors"

No, she had no money of her own. If she lived well while growing up it was on her stepfather's dime, and her stepfather did not choose to make her independently wealthy. She had no trust fund, and her only prospects of an inheritance would come if her mother managed to die a wealthy widow.

She wanted to be rich, and there are three ways to get rich: To inherit wealth, to earn wealth, and to marry wealth. She wasn't lucky enough to inherit wealth. She was smart, but in her day even upper-class, well-connected girls were barred from most of the professions that could make a person rich. But even if she was officially penniless she was a penniless society debutante, and that's the main thing her privileged background offered her - an easy shot at marrying wealth. That was the form her privilege took, and she took advantage.

Jackie's father Black Jack blew through what was left of the Bouvier money.

[quote] but in her day even upper-class, well-connected girls were barred from most of the professions that could make a person rich.

Just like us! We were “barred” from working a day in our lives too! We are equally oppressed modern society women and therefore we had no option but to marry ridiculously wealthy men!

I should have divorced and married literal real money back when I still had a chance.

Anybody see Miss Colin's take on Broadway?

For my mom's generation, Jackie was a sophisticated change from the frumpy Eisenhower (those bangs!), Truman, and Roosevelt wives. They also whispered about her miscarriage and how awful the Kennedys treated her.

I used to think she married Ari for money (true) and she's a gold digger. Now, I think she did marry him because he could protect her and her kids. I didn't get her style. Now I can see her elan as iconic.

I always think of her as a courtesan--a nice, old-fashioned word....She was raised to marry money and she married money. End of discussion.

Since we have so many of Mrs. Kennedy’s biographers here, could you all please leave the title of your publication and the ink to it on Amazon? TIA

I’m so glad that the Datalounge can host so many established biographers.

"Now, I think she did marry him because he could protect her and her kids. "

Protect them from what? I don't think they were in any danger from anybody, although they probably would have had photographers after them from time to time. The excuse that she married Onassis for "protection" and "security" is just garbage.

When she was First Lady she didn't like the idea of anyone looking at or taking a picture of her rug rats if they happened to be playing outside. So she wanted a FENCE put up around the White House. Of course that was not possible because the White House is not private property. But it just goes to show how stuck up she was that she thought a fence should have been built around the White House to protect her little darlings from prying eyes.

R164 After the assassination of her first husband and Robert Kennedy, Jacqueline suffered from depression. She came to fear for her life and those of her children, saying: "If they're killing Kennedys, then my children are targets ... I want to get out of this country".

[quote] Nice cherry-picking, R144. The Hiltons are trash. If Jackie were born in a later generation, she probably would've gotten an education and gone to work professionally

Possibly, not “probably”, R146. I used to live near the hive of posh upperclass girls. Most of them still want the same thing: rich husband and babies. They go to yoga in the morning and then spend 4 hours a day “working” at private art galleries that are empty (no customers) for most of the day. They spend all their lunch gossiping about which rich young heir in their clique is dating which fellow upperclass girl (you can’t help but overhear their chatter at fancy cafés). You can spot the upperclass Chelsea girls husband-shopping at all the major social calendar events: polo, regatta, etc.

Some of the prettier ones try their hand at acting (and usually fail), like Cressida Bonas. Some of the comparatively poorer ones guest star on reality shows. Here are some of the latter, “busy getting their MBAs” on a beach in the Mediterranean...

From my experience, the ones that go for normal careers are the uglier ones. They can’t rely on their looks to marry well, and their parents [italic]know[/italic] it, so they nudge those ‘uglier ducklings’ towards proper school. Like Chelsea Davy.

She’s a fun girl but no beauty. Once it was clear that Harry (or anyone else) wasn’t going to wife her up in her 20s, she tried a lawyer career. But she lasted only 3 years. She quickly grew bored of the daily grind at a law firm and said ‘screw this work thing’. Last I heard, she was playing around with designing overpriced jewellery (a usual posh girl pet ‘project’). She’s labelled as a “businesswoman” on her Wiki. With that face, no wonder.

R167, that’s not a great picture of Chelsy Davy..., she was beautiful when she was younger. But her looks have eroded a bit.

JFK Jr. , Gay Head, 1982

The anti-Jackie troll needs some meds. Or maybe a pitcher of strong daiquiris and a pack of Parliaments, as Jackie surely would have done.

She set an example for good public behavior. She fostered an interest in arts and culture like no modern First Lady.

And like the above poster said, after decades of frumpy First Ladies Jackie was like a goddess from Mount Olympus. Especially after eight years of Mamie Eisenhower, the frumpiest frump of the 20th century, it's easy to see why Jackie caused a sensation.

R168 Meghan Markle is still prettier than Chelsy Davy.

r166 as one who's spent my life around the upper classes and "old money" types, there are multitudes of women in those classes who get advanced degrees and work professionally. As one with your nose pressed up against the glass to "overhear" them, of course your perception of that world is rather skewed. God, what a tiresome bore you are.

How did a Kennedy and a Cuomo produce her? Michaela Cuomo is beautiful.

[quote] God, what a pretentious ass you are.

[quote] Good lord. Give it the fuck up already.

[quote] God, what a tiresome bore you are.

[quote] It's just a fucking story

[quote] The anti-Jackie troll needs some meds.

[quote] A sea of entitled cunts. Insufferable

You are one pressed Bouvier fangurl, R172. You mention “god” so many times you can start a church.

And it’s ironic that you diss Coachella goers as “entitled cunts” (even though most of them work for a living). But you put Bouvier on a pedestal, even though she was an entitled WAG herself. The sheep-like adoration and fawning over rich wives of heterosexual men is just silly.

ok, the anti-Jackie cunt is the cupcake troll. Ignore.

What I could never understand was Ari's constant complaining about Jackie's spending. She only spent about $3million a year, and he was worth at least $500 million. Odd that he would be so pissy about what amounted to pocket change for him.

No one cares who you ignore, Bouvier fangurl @ R175.

The fact that you silly homosexuals are still gossiping about moi 25 years after my demise says it all.

[quote] Chelsy Davy... she was beautiful when she was younger. But her looks have eroded a bit.

She was never “beautiful”. She was the Zimbabwean / British colonialist version of Avril Lavigne.

She was lively and fun. But “society beauty” she was not. That’s why her parents packed her off to a law firm (which she quit anyway).

[quote] Meghan Markle is still prettier than Chelsy Davy.

Yes, but Markle has surgery. Davy did not.

*had surgery

r178 Mrs. Kennedy, who are you calling a homosexual?

Poor Lem Billings. It's said he lost the will to live after JFK was killed. He lived for about 15 more years in a drug and alcohol haze until he finally died.

I don't think Jackie was all that smart or hardworking...

And you know Kid, there were other Kennedy women who were

And I could punch your fucking lights out

R179 Chelsy Davy is more like an uglier version of Avril Lavigne.

Not before Lavigne got her wacky smile fixed, R184.

[quote]Exploding after seeing how much money she was spending (she couldn't really account for where it went)

That’s not when he exploded.

Too soon, R186.

[quote] She set an example for good public behavior.

How to marry a rich millionaire and then an even richer foreign billionaire with the world’s biggest yacht? Yes, all the Insta girls in Cannes are trying to follow in her footsteps.

[quote] She fostered an interest in arts and culture like no modern First Lady.

The fact that modernity still has a “First Lady” is ridiculous. Give people a democratic republic in the 20th-21st C - and they’ll still nostalgically sigh, wanting a British-style “King Arthur’s Camelot” symbolic monarchy, with a ‘King and his Royal Consort’.

As for her interest in the arts and culture, didn’t she and/or her sister get frisky with Rudolf Nureyev (who preferred men but made exceptions for rich society women like the Bouvier sisters, as it stroked his ego). No wonder why she was such a ballet devotee.

R185 Avril Lavigne still has a prettier face and has appeared in a lot of fashion magazines.

Yes, she does - after her surgeon did a fixer-upper on her.

R190 Avril Lavigne is always pretty even when she was young.

She was the guiding force that saved Grand Central Terminal from being demolished in the 1960s and helped launch the modern preservation movement as a political and social reality.

For that alone I don't care if she fucked Hitler for jukebox nickles.

I shouldn't be surprised that DL supports quarterly threads on anything Kennedy reaching hundreds of posts each, with absolutely nothing new to say whatsoever. But I am.

"She set an example for good public behavior. She fostered an interest in arts and culture like no modern First Lady."

You're an idiot. She was a greedy, stuck up, snobbish cunt who worshipped money. And of course she supported the arts; that's what snobbish, rich women like her DO. Did she ever do anything for human beings? I don't believe she did. As previously stated, she cared for nothing except money and her own family. Some "example for good behavior!"

She helped save Grand Central Terminal from being demolished.

On the basis of that alone I don't care if she spent the rest of her life post-JFK blowing Hitler for jukebox nickels.

R191, Lavigne was what’s called [italic]jolie laide[/italic]. Magazine covers are a mirage.

I did like the songs she sang though.

She was a greedy, funny looking cunt.

Sorry! I thought my first comment didn't go through for some reason...

Stop posting pics of Avril Lavigne and that other cow.

Nobody gives a fuck about them. And they have nothing to do with the topic.

R192 / R195, that’s what many celebs and the rich do (as long as they’re not in the construction business) - NIMBY. It’s [italic]comme il faut[/italic].

[quote] Stars from the fields of art, music and science today condemned the ... planned demolition of the Earls Court exhibition centre. In a letter ... figures such as designers Ozwald Boateng and Bella Freud, Neil Tennant of the Pet Shop Boys and comedian Tracey Ullman describe the threatened west London venue as the “heart and hub” of the capital.

[quote] Last year, a protest was fired off to Crossrail by Save Soho, an organisation devoted to halting the encroaching [development] ... it was signed by Save Soho’s committee, including chairman Stephen Fry and Benedict Cumberbatch ... On [the anti-development website] you can find Matt Smith babbling excitedly, writer-director Charlie Kaufman musing ruefully and High-Rise director Ben Wheatley grumbling that he can’t see the point of Crossrail 2 anyway.

(As for “blowing Hitler for nickels” - ironic, because Dresden’s priceless architecture & old palaces were bombed to make him pay.)

[R200] Correct me if I'm wrong - they shouldn't have preserved Grand Central? And she was at the forefront of the movement long before it was simply something rich people did. Grand Central was a massive public building as opposed to a colonial relic, like Williamsburg, for example. And I'm not sure you could call its preservation Nimbyism on her part when she lived a mile away.

Frolicsome presentation of hole.

A lot lizard

3's a crowd. Scram pansy.

How was she “at the forefront of the movement”, R201. Was she the one who founded the preservation movement (LPC)? She penned a letter & gave a speech in a bar - and her husband’s presidential legacy & clout carried it. Activists draft celebs into their ranks for visibility & access to their higher-up contacts.

E.g. to save female prisoners from death row, activists drafted Kim Kardashian to seek state pardons. And, purely because of her celeb fame, she managed to get access to both the White House and a meeting with California’s Governor Newsom. But, what, is Kardashian now “at the forefront” of the anti-death penalty movement? If you listen to newspapers write accolades about her, you’d think she is the new MLK of the movement:

[quote] “Less than a year after visiting the White House to talk about criminal justice reform and helping to draw attention to the case of Alice Marie Johnson, Kim Kardashian West is again using her public platform to promote reform. And she's made it clear that this is no casual pet cause; she's informed on the issues and ready to make real change. ... And this isn't her only good deed of the week. Kardashian West is changing lives ... on a very meaningful scale.”

As for the LPC, the fight over Grand Central went for a decade, and Onassis was not the head of the Committee. The fight started in the late 60s, and Onassis only joined in the mid-70s - towards the end. It’s her NIMBY, because it’s the center of her city.

[quote] Grand Central wasn’t among the first batch of buildings to gain protected status in 1965, when the Landmarks Preservation Commission was first established. But it was one whose protected status was most desired by the city’s preservation-minded community. The LPC was formed in the wake of the destruction of McKim, Mead & White’s grand old Penn Station, and many preservationists worried that Grand Central would suffer a similar fate.

[quote] Preservationists and architecture critics were, as you might expect, unenthused by that idea. The LPC eventually rejected the [demolition] proposal, and rejected revisions to it in 1969, leading to a DECADE-long battle between the city and the newly-created Penn Central [pro-demolition company]. Penn Central eventually sued the city ... the company was by that time in even worse financial shape - it had declared bankruptcy in 1970.

[quote] eventually, with the help of the Municipal Art Society, [they] got some very snazzy benefactors. Former First Lady Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis and architect Philip Johnson were two of the big names who joined the Committee to Save Grand Central Station, which was headed up by former New York City mayor Robert Wagner.

[quote] Whether or not her star power was the terminal’s sole saving grace is up for debate ... More celebrities lent their names to the cause; in the spring of 1975, stars like Dick Cavett, Benny Goodman, and Tony Randall performed at a benefit outside of the station, and a celeb-filled train traveled to and from the station in 1978 as a way to gain attention and shore up support for the cause. [In 1978, the Supremd Court ruled in LBC’s favor.]

The anti-Jackie loon sure is invested in his hate. What a nutter.

The best thing about Jackie imo was her fashions, from the cute preppy shifts to the glamorous state dinner gowns to the sleek 70s casual slacks. Her clothes started to look a little boring in the 80s, but I guess that happens with age.

[quote]Her clothes started to look a little boring in the 80s, but I guess that happens with age.

No, that happened with the '80s.

Jackie really brought the fight for Grand Central a lot more visibility. For her to ride that train to DC and appear on tv was a big deal. People really took notice.

The “Oh god, Oh lord” Bouvier fangurl @ R207 - she ain’t your mother, no need to act so triggered.

r211 proves my point.

Not a fangirl, just looking at Jackie through the lens of her time and generation. But whatever, keep on trolling.

The Horsman Jackie doll.....

Calling people “haters” and “trolls” proves you’re an over-emotional Bouvier fangurl, R212. Relax and don’t take analysis of Bouvier so personally.

I spared no one.

Sometimes just being glamorous is enough...

Well, of course, people notice, R210. When any female consort of a top-position popular straight guy does anything, even sneeze - people notice. If Meghan Markle launches an appeal to save local endangered hedgehogs - people will notice.

R66, she was first lady of the united states, when that meant something. She would not have started a blog or done anything so trashy as television. She did a lot of volunteer work and worked in the publishing business.

R194, when is the last time you ever did anything for human beings? We're discussing a former First Lady who would be 90 if she were alive then. She was a product of her time, who took great interest in the history of our country and brought a lot of the historical heritage out of the White House basements so it could be seen. She left the White House immensely better off than when she moved in. That is her legacy and one to be proud of.

Well, not quite R219. A lot of it had to be bought! She used her cache to shake money trees all over the place, and leaned on everyone to sell cheap.

R59 I made perfect sense. Your brain damaged status makes language incomprehensible to you.

R213, that is one terrible doll. Looks like DL favorite Patsy Ramsey.

Scarlett showed some grit in the hospital.

Sorry - back to the "Gone With the Wind" thread.

[quote] she was first lady of the united states, when that meant something. She would not have started a blog or done anything so trashy as television.

R218, why not. OP asked: “I wonder who or what she would’ve been in other generations.” The question is not about her monarchical holy status in the 60s. A Goop-like blog is very probable for upperclass yoga moms today.

[quota] She did a lot of volunteer work and worked in the publishing business.

There’s a difference between work and a pet project, created solely for you by your high-end friends because they see you’re getting bored and lonely.

An old boyfriend once saw her having lunch at The Four Seasons. Apparently it was always a baked potato with caviar and champagne. And cigarettes.

It's highly unlikely she stole any job at Viking or Doubleday. Those publishing houses jumped at the chance to have her onboard with all the star power and connections. Jobs were created for her due to that and she did her work well.

Quite enough, R220, although I agree with you that a number of purchased pieces were added as well. But where better to display them than the White House, the icon of our democracy?

Let's all hope Malaria hasn't sold those things off and replaced it with Lladro, purchased full retail from that tacky shop on Fifth Avenue.

R226, the way staffing & payroll works, if you’re creating a snowflake position for someone, you’ll balance out the staff numbers by not hiring or not promoting someone else.

I saw the same happen for Tony Blair’s kids. Some banks wanted their dad’s connections, so they accepted his mediocre kids into prestigious banks and quickly boosted them to VP status, in return for access to Blair’s Saudi and other shady friends. There’s no need to applaud nepotism. There will come a time when someone like that will undercut you in your job, getting fast-tracked to Board membership over you.

Lady Bird Johnson and Jackie both spent time at Martin's Vineyard. When Mrs Onassis died, Lady Bird was one first people networks asked to speak on tv.

Lady Bird on Martha's Vineyard? That seems unlikely.

Beware of Greeks bearing gifts.

I think Lady Bird liked and respected Jackie. Different generations but a respect for the widowed mother who set the stage for First Ladies doing good works, like LB's beautification projects in public spaces.

R231, Jackie & Lady Bird did become close after LBJ’s death.

R151 AMEN to what you said. I spent 14 years caring for a property in Chilmark, close to Gay Head. That acreage at that end of the island should have been given to island land trust, town conservation, or the Nature Conservancy, among other land preservation organisations. It was comparatively pristine. I wonder if the Gay Head Wampanoag Tribe has been working on some conservation efforts; I know they can’t be happy at all that Caroline is making such a horribly tone deaf move with that property.

R235 I’m so jealous do you miss it?

How did Jackie get a hold of the property in the first place? I know she was very wealthy by then, but it had to be a huge investment. Wasn’t it over 300 acres? Why didn’t anyone fight it back then?

In the right hand corner you can see Jackie's house and barns. This pondfront 40 acres was one of the two parcels Caroline Kennedy had listed. Only one house can be built on this property and Martha's Vineyard is incredibly picky. Half of the houses around there are inverted, meaning the bedrooms downstairs and living/dining/kitchen upstairs because they have such severe height restrictions and people want some kind of views. New houses are not allowed to be seen from the road or public vistas.

One can be jailed for doing something like digging a hole to plant a bush. They have a very specific term for it, something along the lines of earth clearing. The land is pretty protected.

As for this Wampanoag tribe, they're building a 10k square feet gambling dome across the street. They aren't subject to most regulations.

R236 Yes, I miss that property and that part of the island very much.

r237 Jackie bought it after Onassis died in 1978. She paid $1.1 million. There was talk of preservation, but it was just a different time. The listings mention "deeded beach access by car". I suspect that was something instituted by the Kennedys. There's nothing more Kennedy than a car parked on a sandy beach.

Does anyone else smell Polo for men and moldy hankies in here? charlie's posts are nauseatingly recognizable. He's your fangurl. Jackie Kennedy did what she was raised to do. Give good head and make them pay a lot for the pussy.

Jackie in Martha's Vineyard on the roof of her car, on her 60th birthday in 1989. Bitch looks fantastic.

Besides the money & security wasn’t part of the motivation for marrying Onassis just the actual name?

It was a big enough at the time to “rebrand” her and not spend the rest of her life as the Widow Kennedy - she was only 33 In Dallas and 38 when she married Onassis. All the negative reaction at the time was surely not a surprise to her - she was taking her own life back in an almost defiant way.

When Jackie told bestie Bunny Mellon she was marrying Onassis, Mellon said "You'll fall off your pedestal." Jackie replied "Better than freezing to death on it."

I think Lee and Gore Vidal are writing a lot of these comments from hell

[quote]We're discussing a former First Lady who would be 90 if she were alive then.

Huh?

HISTORY: "First Lady Mrs. Kennedy was sort of a hooker."

MELANIA: "Hold my tip jar."

Gay writer Steven Rowley's new novel, “The Editor,” tells the tale of a struggling writer who gets his big break from Jackie Kennedy – and how Jackie improves his book and his family relationships.

I haven't read it, but it got a positive review from Time magazine.

^^Of course, I could have read the story at OP's link and found the same information. Mea culpa.

^^inserting real (and modern) historical figures/ celebrities into fiction as main characters is crass.

Read "Flying Into Love" by D.M. Thomas - before you say that R250. Of course there are many other examples to refute your silly assertion.

[quote]Carly Simon was one of Jackie's closest friends and in the last decade of her life

Carly Simon is writing an ‘‘intimate, vulnerable’’ memoir about a very famous friend, Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis.

Farrar, Straus and Giroux announced Monday that Simon’s ‘‘Touched by the Sun’’ was scheduled for Oct. 22. According to the publisher, Simon and Onassis met at a summer party on Martha’s Vineyard and began an ‘‘improbable, but lasting friendship.’’ Simon, best known for such songs as ‘‘You’re So Vain’’ and ‘‘The Spy Who Loved Me,’’ said in a statement that Onassis became everything from a ‘‘protective mother figure’’ to a ‘‘mischievous pal.’’ Onassis died in 1994.

r251 the silly assertion is creating situations that never occurred, putting words into people's mouths they never said, and in effect rewriting history.

r252 If Carly was a true friend of Jackie's she would never write a book about her. A true friend would know and respect Jackie's extreme need for privacy. Shame on Carly Simon.

Not so improbable. They were both born with silver spoons in their mouths.

Carly is as empty headed, indulged and entitled as Jacqueline herself. Like her other best friend, Lillian Hellman, Carly is not known for her truthfulness or loyalty.

R254, give her some credit for waiting 25 years after Jackie's death to write about her.

Isn't Carly a 1000 years old now? The original Joker Mouth. It must be horrifying now.

JBKO’s dad was hot.

[quote] She merits no criticism

NO criticism? I don't even think you can say that about saints in the Catholic church.

If you really think she merits NO criticism whatsoever for anything whatsoever, then that tells us what YOUR real church is.

The Church of MARY!

[quote]If Carly was a true friend of Jackie's she would never write a book about her. A true friend would know and respect Jackie's extreme need for privacy. Shame on Carly Simon.

And the bitch wouldn't call me a "mother figure." I know her real age.

R260, your ballsac stinks.

[quote]Carly is as empty headed,

No, she is not. I know her. She is very neurotic, but she is extremely intelligent and well read.

JKBO was she addicted to barbiturates? In the Netflix show The Kennedy’s she is seeing a doctor for something.

Carly, Jackie and I shared the same horse hung big black daddy in Oak Bluffs. He was legendary and fucked everyone who was anyone on the Island.

R264 She and JFK were getting shots of speed.

R264 thanks

Why shouldn't Carly Simon write a book about Jackie? Jackie is an important historical figure. She's been dead 25 years. Most people who knew her intimately are also now dead.

^^^Because Jackie specifically requested her family, friends, and staff not to ever talk or write about her, even after death, that's why! If a close friend of mine had asked me not to divulge anything personal about them after their passing, I would honour it. It's called being a friend and staying true to your word.

Jackie had a beautiful voice. She could've been a professional singer. Not as big as me in my day, howeveh.

And you know this, R269, because how? Others in Jackie's orbit have written about their experience.

"She merits no criticism. She needs no defense."

You're an insane Jackie worshipping nutjob, absolutely cuckoo.

IMHO after a person's been dead for over two decades, and most of the people who knew them closely are also dead, and they were an important cultural and historical figure, the concerns about privacy should be negated in favor of the historical record.

Caroline Kennedy released tapes that her mother wanted private for 100 years. Caroline was paid well for the tapes so she released them around the 50th anniversary.

r271 Sarah Bradford's America's Queen? Any book written about the woman since her death? Magazine and newspaper articles, interviews with friends. I thought this was common knowledge? She asked all her friends that they continue their loyalty of not talking about her even after death. I'd be willing to bet the ones who have spoken about Jackie on record were merely acquaintances, not people Jackie would consider true friends. Did Bunny Mellon or Nancy Tuckerman talk? Maurice Tempelsman? Jayne Wrightsman? It's just not a done thing in their world. I would have thought more of Simon, but clearly not. Yes, r273 we need to know about our historical figures, but there's a line that's crossed when it breaches a code of privacy requested by that person. How much more do we really need to know about Jackie for posterity or history's sake?

Jackie was very controlling about WHEN and WHAT people knew about her.

But she did record interviews about her life. She just prohibited them from being released for decades.

Carly Simon has no filters. She got in trouble with her sisters decades ago for telling Vanity Fair that her mother had a college student living in the house whom she was fucking under her husband's nose.

So God knows what she'll reveal about Jackie.

Did she speak in that annoying voice at work?

^^ look for the interview on youtube with Lee Radziwill. Lee spoke like a New York cab driver and I'd be willing to bet that so did Jackie behind closed doors. 'Cawwfee' for coffee, that kind of thing, like Fran Fine's family.

Jackie has a very New York accent that doesn't really exist anymore.

The odd thing to me is that it was upper class, but still New York, which sounds lower class to the rest of the country.

Jackie's voice in private was different than the breathy, put-on voice she used in public. She had a pronounced New York/Long Island accent. People have said that in private she sounded a lot like her cousin Little Edie.

But could she DAAAANCE??

Little Edie sounded fine to me. Yes - LI/NY but posh by way of Miss Porters and some pressures for MidAtlantic.

it could have been me Jackleeeen

No secrets

R284 I take back what I said. She DOES look like Carly's mom.

Everybody knew Carly's mom was fucking the Manny who was decades younger than her. It was common knowledge in those circles.

Jackie Kennedy was what we now call a whore.

Carly Simon mama's mama was black Cuban!

Jackie was hardly a whore.

^^^exactly, remember when Onassis complained that all she wanted to do in bed was read?

She was reading her bank $tatement$

I never called her a slut. Whores get paid. She charged Onassis to have sex. It was itemized.

Quotes from Jackie the Money Grubbing Cunt on Martin Luther King : "terrible , phony man ". And on Charles de Gaulle : "spiteful egomaniac ". On speechwriter Theodore Sorensen :"he was the last person you would invite at night ". Who the fuck was this clothes horse cunt to judge people who had accomplished far more than she ever did?

Jackie was 16 years older than Carly. Jackie had a really good facelift/s and upper eye work, she looked good until 60, after which she started to age terribly; youth spent in the sun? The cigarettes? The emotional trauma catching up with her? The cancer? A combination of all? Jackie didn't look good the two years leading up to her cancer diagnosis and clearly in hindsight looking at photos of her, she was ill. Lee looked much better at 64 than Jackie, but Lee hadn't had Jackie's life.

She should have given Carly the name of her plastic surgeon...

r293 King was a phoney. He acted holy than thou but cheated on his wife all the time, organising orgies in motel rooms. Not the Christian man he professed to be, She also knew these people, we don't. You need to take into consideration the context in which these comments were made. Jackie made these catty remarks in the weeks after JFK was assassinated when no doubt she was still in shock and grief, no doubt angry, possibly clinically depressed and by all accounts after she had consumed alcohol, possibly even Max Jacobsen's magic elixir! She was young and alone and completely shattered. People do and say odd things they don't necessarily mean when they're in shock and grief, and clinical depression tends to make people petty and nasty sometimes. In any case, they were her opinions based on what she knew of the people.

Jackie was right about all of those men.

Was she right about her husband? JFK was the most pathological womanizer in history.

That's a mighty big statement. R298.. You must be old AF.

R270 Mother you are just divine. You know mother, I could’ve been the First Lady. Let’s go into the garden the house is a little messy.

If you listen to the fascinating audio recordings that Jackie made with Arthur Schlesinger in 1964, she takes shots at Adlai Stevenson, MLK, Rose Kennedy, Eunice Shriver, Pat Nixon, Mamie Eisenhower, Alan King, Dean Rusk, LBJ, Ted Sorenson, etc.

Alan King?!?! Did she express any thoughts for posterior on Jack Carter?

posterity^^

That was less than a year after her husband's brains were blown into her lap. I'll cut her some slack.

She expressed thoughts on the King brothers, Martin and Alan, but what about Evelyn "Champagne", Elle and the rest of the King Sisters?

Her feets were huge...what size were they?

I think she wore 11s.

^Either a 10 or10.5. The always gracious Ethel once called them “clodhoppers”.

Ethel was always insanely jealous of Jackie.

R309 for good reason, apparently. As a NY State Senator, RFK of course spent a lot of time there and had an apartment near the UN. Several reports had him slipping into Jackie's pad and slipping out before daybreak. And of course the assumption was he was slipping in and out of Jackie as a way of providing mutual comfort. Having had only 3 kids, Jackie was likely a better lay than Ethel, with her enormous brood.

Plus Jackie got all the fame, sympathy and cash. Ethel was stuck in Hickory Hill after RFK's assassination, basically a dowdy single housewife with now 11 offspring.

For goodness sake: Use your eyes. Ethel was like one of those PGA gals.

Ethel "dated" fagela Andy Williams.

R310, RFK was a United States Senator from NY, not a NY State Senator.

"Ethel was always insanely jealous of Jackie."

No, she wasn't. Why should she be? Ethel had a very good sexual relationship with her husband, which Jackie certainly did NOT have. And Ethel could pop those kids out like a rabbit, whereas poor Jackie kept miscarrying and having premature babies that didn't survive. She was a failure as a breeder. I think Jackie was jealous of Ethel. After JFK's death Ethel knew Jackie was floundering and told her she would "share' Bobby with her. If she were jealous of Jackie she sure as hell wouldn't have done that.

Jackie wasn't the least bit jealous of Ethel. She found Ethel annoying and common, in spite of her background.

Ethel is from Chicago, if you consider that a background.

Michelle Obama is a far more accomplished, impressive, intelligent and stylish woman than Jackie cocksucker Kennedy. Michelle's husband actually loves her too. The Obamas are the most successful and admirable family to ever occupy the white house.

Michelle is from Chicago.

The Kennedys benefited from living before the Internet.

JFK's affairs would have been all over Twitter. As would have been Jackie's.

R314, The majority of Ethel's children were delivered via Cesarean section.

Michelle Obama, or, per Joan Rivers, Blackie O.

R302, Jackie thought Alan King and his anti-marriage jokes were inappropriate for the Inaugural Gala.

Fun fact: JFK sent Jackie home to the White House that evening and it's long been rumored that he then hooked up with Angie Dickinson.

It's such a shame she had ugly hands and that's why she constantly wore gloves.

"Jackie wasn't the least bit jealous of Ethel. "

Jackie may have had no liking for Ethel but she did envy Ethel. She envied her child bearing capabilities definitely. And she realized that Ethel fit into the Kennedy family perfectly, whereas she, being reserved and stuck up, did not. After JFK's death she even coveted Ethel's husband Bobby, latching onto him and using him as a surrogate father for her own children, as if he didn't have his hands full with his huge family. Yes, Ethel definitely had a lot that Jackie didn't have, and Jackie was well aware of that. I guess it really angered her, that this women she felt was beneath her, had things she couldn't have.

It's not Jackie's fault that STDs from JFK caused her problems.

Ethel was a tacky, ugly brood mare, and a shitty mother. Pissed that she wasn't ever First Lady. She was barely a lady at all.

I like the anecdote from the book on Ethel "The Other Mrs. Kennedy".

The morning of RFK's funeral at Saint Patrick's Cathedral, Ethel was dawdling at her United Nations Plaza apartment. Finally, someone suggested she get herself ready so they could leave for the church. Ethel's response was "Do you really think they can start without me?".

^That book was wildly entertaining. Highly recommended for those who, like me, enjoy biographies filled with gossip.

Ethel is the tacky type with labels still on shoes, and something always off. And she never pays her bills.

"Ethel was a tacky, ugly brood mare, and a shitty mother. Pissed that she wasn't ever First Lady. She was barely a lady at all."

Oh shut up, you idiot. Ethel Kennedy is (she still survives and is 90 years old) a remarkable woman. She always possessed enormous energy and had a great sense of humor, both of which Jackie totally lacked. And nothing she's ever done has ever suggested she was "pissed off" at not being First Lady, which she definitely would have been if RFK had not been assassinated. She's worked on behalf of human rights and the environment, something Jackie would NEVER have deigned to do. in 2014, she was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom by President Obama for her dedication to "advancing the cause of social justice, human rights, environmental protection, and poverty reduction by creating countless ripples of hope to effect change around the world." She was always superior to Jackie in every way, except for wearing stylish, expensive clothes, which she didn't give a shit about anyway. She's one hell of a woman.

True, R329.

Jackie was all about Jackie. Style but little substance.

Most bizarre photo. LBJ,Ethel .RFK sit in the same limo JFK had his brains blown out in. Lyndon was one sadistic fucker. What were they thinking?

R331 that is sad. LBJ was a nut his wife was the brains. Poor Bobby

I don’t think it was the same car, r331. There are several “presidential” limos in service. I think the Dallas limo was cleaned and retired.

The JFK assassination limo is now at the Henry Ford Museum. I've seen it many times. I do believe the interior was stripped and redone and put back into use for LBJ. They also have Lincoln's theatre chair there.

Jackie was a huge snob, and not a nice person. The comments she made about Lady Bird Johnson (of all people!) and Pat Nixon were ridiculously gratuitous and nasty.

Nope R333. The picture was taken of them in the Dallas limo 100-X. LBJ had it re-painted black added a ton of armor plate and bullet proof glass and made Bobby ride in it. It was used by LBJ thru his presidency and not retired till 1977. No wonder Bobby is touching his head. Creepy

After being renovated and cleaned, the car JFK was killed in was indeed reused. The vehicle was returned to service and used by Johnson, Nixon, Ford and Carter before finally being retired in 1977.

Yeah, Ethel was do fabulous! How many of her kids were on drugs or died? She was a shit mother for starters.

R331, Bobby was in danger of losing his NY Senate race in 1964. He had to swallow his pride and ask LBJ to accompany him to a campaign rally in NY. Bobby won, but he then had to phone LBJ the next day and thank him for his support, a man he loathed.

Didn't Ethel call her black maid the N-word? And the maid cussed her out or hit her or something? She was really foul to her help. That house must have had a high turnover of staff.

The media slobbering over the Kennedy's was always so off putting. They were a vile bunch for the most part and Queen Cunt Jackie was no exception. Jackie wouldn't spit on a poor person if they were on fire .

She was our classiest First Lady. Her sense of fashion was impeccable.

Rumors that it was Jackie who actually wrote Profiles in Courage.

Ethel and Bobby Kennedy had 11 children. That seems excessive, even for that time. It seems like she was trying to prove to people: "He's mine, we still fuck."

R343 wasn’t it because they were Catholic?

R344, Yes, part of it (having 11 children) was probably due to Catholicism. (I assume you're talking about how Catholics are not supposed to use birth control.) The truth is that Catholics simply do use birth control.

^Thr always fiercely competitive Ethel wanted to have more kids than Rose.

In the early 1970s, Nureyev and Truman Capote went slumming with Jackie and took her to The Anvil, where she saw the onstage fisting show. Don't tell me I'm lying or it didn't happen because I was there and saw it.

The 70s were wild. You wouldn't believe it.

There were press accounts but they've pretty much expunged. You have to dig way down in google to find any reference at all.

Fun Fact: Jackie loved fisting. And money.

^ they've been pretty much expunged, Sorry.

r329 is Rory Kennedy

For what it's worth, r347, I believe you.

I never met Jackie, but the Skakels are rich and even more entitled than the Kennedys. Ethel is a pig, doesn't pay bills and her kids were a pack of unruly monsters.

Her brother was a semi-hermit that lived in a broken down mansion in Beverly Hills. There was actually grass growing in the living room.

Jackie jealous of Ethel? The only thing I can think Jackie may have been jealous of was Ethel's Skakel family money, and yes, her ability to pop out children at will. Otherwise Ethel Kennedy is an entitled, classless, dumb, common, ugly, child- neglecting, staff- abusing broodmare. Say what you want about Jackie, but she was an exceptional mother. There's an awful story of Ethel more or less abandoning one of her sons (David or RFK jnr I think) while he was still in school, to the point where he relied on Lem Billings and Jackie for support/money.

Jackie, like her sister Lee, was so fashionably thin when she died.

Didn't Ethel's brothers rape and kill a girl when they were young and it was all covered up with Skakel money? The Skakel-Kennedy marriage was a match made in heaven then.

Two words you don't mention to Ethel Kennedy; Marilyn Monroe

Jackie was a lousy mother to her son or he wouldn't have been stupid enough to take off at dusk in a plane he was ill equipped to fly.

She was a trophy wife who leached off rich men.

She’d be doing the same thing today.

^^^ you are an ill informed fool...Jackie forbid JFK jnr to take flying lessons while she was alive, he starting flying after Jackie died. JFK also had life long ADD which he took medication for, he had poor impulse control, like most male Kennedys

started# JFK Jnr. had ADD, not JFK

r357 Jackie told JFK jnr. that Kennedys had been dying in planes for decades, she knew of his impulsive nature and concluded that flying would be bad for him. So Jackie was a good mother, her son just didn't listen to her and paid the ultimate price.

Jackie was a good mother. There's not much reason to dispute that. It comes naturally to some people, regardless of their position or resources. But, Jacquie had FAS and married into a dark, defective bloodline herself. Not much hope for John Jr. He was kind of handsome with too much facial bone. His kinky sense of exhibitionism made him sexy. Dude loved to show off.

Jackie certainly looked liked she had FAS, her father was a severe alcoholic too, but I thought the mother had to be alcoholic for the child to have FAS? Or can it be from the father too?

[quote]And she realized that Ethel fit into the Kennedy family perfectly, whereas she, being reserved and stuck up, did not.

Jackie had no interest in "turning into a Kennedy" in order to fit in. She though Ethel was a silly bitch in many ways.

Jackie had a shit childhood. Her father was drunk all the time and her mother was an ice-cold, imperious bitch.

There were other single rich men in the U.S. when Jackie married JFK, no? She married into one of the most corrupt and tacky families in the country. And richest. She no doubt felt apart and superior from them. A fine breeding and interests. But she wasn't any better than them. She desired a young husband for family and she wanted a guarantee of lots of MONEY. She hated politics, but still married a dynastically RICH senator.

The holding of JFK "brains in her hands" is mighty powerful language charlie, but what else would you do with someone's brains in your hands? Play the violin? Listen to Streisand? As Joan Rivers (and others) said - Jackie clearly tried to escape the car. It's all understandable. To survive a miss is not heroic. That's all she did. But she did survive it with real emotion and character on display. Her grief was real. She was changed forever.

Yet she never reached out to anyone else. I get it was not the way back then, but she wouldn't have anyway.

Jackie moved on and forward with a bang. Her reticence to speak of what happened was mostly to maintain and control the Camelot that her husband loved and desired her. Intact. It's before my time to be honest. She's a cold broad to relate too. She suffered a great tragedy in her life. But mostly she got what she wanted. She never had anything to do with real people. Ever. Did she.

[quote] Jackie married Onassis only because she was panicked when RFK was shot in 1968--she herself said later she felt then shee had to get her kids out of the USA because she felt people were gunning for Kennedys. She grabbed at Onassis's marriage offer to get herself out of the US, and then realized she had made a horrible mistake

[quote] She married Onassis not just for money but for the security he could provide to shield herself and her kids from the masses.

That is complete and utter bullshit. PURE SHIT. She didn't leave America. Onassis didn't protect her kids. She's never lived anywhere but America. She continued to live in NYC. Her children continued to live and go to school in NYC. Jackie went on vacation to Greece and Europe for a few months after she married Onassis. Then she came right back to her apartment in NYC. Ari owned the a townhouse in Sutton Place (NYC). She couldn't even be bothered to live in his townhouse

You people are delusional for believing Jackie's bullshit lies. The myths she created and the stupid media perpetuated. The truth is she has never lived anywhere else but America her entire life. She was a whore. plain and simple. A smart whore, but a whore none the less

Didn't Charles de Gaulle predict her career as a yacht whore? I can't remember the exact quote but he was quite prescient!

R366, you are too stupid to live. Blocked, you filthy cunt.

Watch your language Matt. You're too crazy R369.

I think all you negative nellies are just jealous of Jackie. You wanted her lifestyle and money so you attack her for it. You all probably have the nasty characteristics you attribute to her and yet you don't have what she had, so you're bitter about it. Did Jackie really make herself out to be a saint and martyr or was that just how the media portrayed her? Remember Bunny Melon's comment about her falling off her pedestal?

Imagine all the times the news “Well, Ethel’s expecting” made the rounds in the family....five, seven, eleven times. It’s comical. Jackie must have found it disgusting.

No way Jackie was jealous of Ethel. The last thing Jackie wanted was to pop out a kid once a year.

Jackie died at 64, Ethel just turned 91.

Life is unfair.

Jackie called Ethel a ”baby making machine”. ”Wind her up an she’ll pop out a baby”.

Jackie really was a product of her time. We forget she was born 90 years ago. She definitely had the opportunity to marry rich, and she did. From what I’ve read, understandably, the death of JFK had a huge, profound influence on her life until the day she died. She contemplated suicide afterward, and looks like she had PTSD. Today, a woman like her (unaccomplished wife of a politician) wouldn’t really capture our imagination like she did.

"Today, a woman like her (unaccomplished wife of a politician) wouldn’t really capture our imagination like she did."

Excuse me?

Ethel would purchase an expensive dress for an event and later make a staff member return it to the store after it had obviously been worn and often soiled.

She used to stiff cab drivers for fares, telling them they should be proud to have driven Mrs. Robert Kennedy.

She hired a caterer in Colorado to furnish a complete meal on short notice for a number of family members and guests one Christmas. Ethel stiffed the caterer for the bill. After the caterer went to the media and the incident went public, a check was issued.

R378

Correct. My mother worked for Claire Dratch in Bethesda in the 70's. They got fed up and called her on it.

Ethel was a total bitch to her help, they all hated her.

Jackie was always kind to HER help, they've all spoken highly of her. Jackie's former assistant (or whatever she was) of many years wrote a book not that long ago and she had nothing but kind things to say about Jackie. She was a working-class Irish immigrant. When she married a working-class guy and had the wedding in some completely unfashionable neighborhood in Queens, Jackie and her two kids attended both the wedding and reception.

And Jackie paid for their honeymoon in the Caribean, at a hotel they never could hav afforded themselves. And Mr Onassis gave them a very generous wedding gift. I was really impressed with how good Jackie treated her staff.

R380, Jackie also gave them access to her storage warehouse and allowed them to select whatever furniture they liked to furnish their apartment.

R380, At that wedding reception.

The kids former nanny wrote a nice book about working for Jackie. Can't remember the name, but the woman learned to cook too and it was kind of a cookbook/entertaining ala Jackie.

She was given a car and treated very well by the family. I believe she also worked for Caroline.

would you look at Nancy Tuckerman looking daggers at the camera in that photo! I read once the Tucky was an old dyke from way back who was secretly in love with Jackie her whole life. Any truth to it I wonder? Would explain her unusual loyalty and spinster life.

that#

Jackie had Nancy Tuckerman and JFK had Lem Billings.

But did Miss Tuckerman perform oral on Jackie the way Lem did on JFK?

R384, the cook/nanny Marta was with Caroline at Lee Radziwill's funeral.

After RFK's death, Ethel let the kids run wild and the house fall into disrepair. Jackie wisely kept her kids away from the boys as much as possible but she also helped with repairs, including having a sorely needed new roof put on.

Everyone likes to think that it was Jackie versus the Kennedy women and they never had any use for each other, but the truth is they remained cordial throughout their lives. Same with Lady Bird Johnson.

Kathy McKeon in r383 was Jackies personal assistant. Her job was to bring breakfast to Jackie, take care of her wardrobe and pack her bags for travels and be around to help with smaller things. There were other employees to take care of the cooking, cleaning and the kids. No wonder Mrs Kennedy always was impeccably dressed - she had a full time assistant who kept everything perfect.

As it should be R391.

Yes, r391. I don't mind cooking or cleaning but would love to have a wardrobe assistant at hand.

If you call Jackie Onassis, Mrs Kennedy, you're really showing your age.

No, some people just prefer it that way. We're completely aware what her legal name was.

Whatever we do, let's make sure we never let two months go by without exhaustive and exhausting discussion of this woman.

If you call her Mrs Kennedy, you were clearly old enough to know her as such in 1961, that's showing your age. No one calls anyone Mrs anything now unless you're in primary school. No one calls Melania Mrs Trump, it's outdated, it would also suggest respect she doesn't deserve.

Jackie O was a whore.

R397. I refer to the current First Lady as Melania Strumpet.

R396, we cannot let the 25th anniversary of her death next month go without a new thread.

How strange to work with Jackie O. It's like, "OMG, Jackie is taking a shit right beside me!".

R390, Why the hell would Jackie have to pay for a new Hickory Hill roof when Ethel had plenty of Skakel money at her disposal?

I don't think Jackie Kennedy Onassis could rightly be called "a good mother." Her children were raised to be rich, privileged brats. John-John turned out to be a clod who ended up killing himself, his wife and his sister in law due to his recklessness and incompetence. Caroline turned out like Mommy, having the same "money lust" that Jackie did. Her kids didn't turn out so great. Neither were admirable human beings.

Maybe the Skakel fortune was not what it once was or she had a trust or she had already gone through her inheritance. Ethel has clearly not been thinking rationally for the better part of five decades.

Ethel picks her nose.

I can’t imagine, even in 60s 70s dollars, how much it would’ve taken to keep Ethel in relative comfort and the funding to raise 11 kids.

At least one died, so there is that.

Ethel had a bunch of siblings too, and they all had tons of kids. The family fortune was surely stretched pretty thin.

Hey y'all. Still alive here. Any of ya folks want ta gab bout me? Feel free.

Jackie singlehandedly kept the country together with her grace, strength and dignity during those awful days in November. For that she deserves our undying gratitude. As Ted so eloquently said at her funeral, she graced our country and our lives. Everything else about her is just noise.

She was smart to be nice to the help. She didn't have a lot of people she could really trust. Her staff probably knew everything about her, but they didn't spill any of her secrets

Her employees were probably the most decent people Jackie met in her entire life

[quote] Jackie died at 64, Ethel just turned 91. Life is unfair.

91 years with that face sounds like torture. What the fuck did she do in a former life to deserve that?

Rich people are always smart to be kind to the help.

[quote] If you call Jackie Onassis, Mrs Kennedy, you're really showing your age.

I'd rather be my age than yours. If you are so young, why do you care about this? Go back to your playstation

Let us not forget Joan Bennett Kennedy, still hanging in there at 82.

Hit a nerve r414? did I make you feel OLD. You have no idea how old I am, and I certainly do not have a Playstation

Can Jackie on Assistance be found anywhere?

Poor Joan, still on the booze.

Whoever would've thought that Joan Kennedy, the falling-down drunk, would've outlived nearly everyone from her generation? Amazing she's still alive after the amount of booze she drank for so many years.

Maybe the booze keeps Joan going. The Queen Mother never had a sober day in her life and made it past 100.

The Queen Mother lived as long as she did because she had zero stress in her life. When you're waited on hand and foot and the only thing you have to worry about all day is pressing the buzzer for another gin & tonic, you'll live to be 101 too!

^I do believe I caused some stress for Cookie

R421, I wasn't around but imagine WW2 was pretty damn stressful no matter who you were.

r422 Wallis, you gave the rotten old bitch just what she deserved

Hey, at least I had decent teeth and was chic. Cookie and Shirley dressed horribly.

Queen Mum had ghastly teeth...QE lol should have put her in a home so we wouldn’t be forced to look at those rotten things...

^Or at least told her to smile with her mouth closed.

[quote]Ethel picks her nose.

So do you, r405, so do you.

DL love discussing jackie because she was a glamorous socialite who was also very wealthy, thanks to her second husband onassis. And she was also an American first lady at the top of American society.

That's everything these queens on DL want to be.

I too enjoy the jackie threads. Its fun gossip.

Socialites are usually wealthy.

R430 Yeah, that's what I said!

Actually, no you said "who was also very wealthy".

I wonder who inherited her jewelry? Caroline’s adult children? Maybe it’s in the Kennedy Library.

"Joan is a doll, but she's sober 20 minutes a day." - Ethyl Kennedy

Joan Kennedy was an out of control drunk. All the cops on Martha's Vineyard knew Joan, because her favorite pastime was to get shitfaced drunk at home on the Kennedy Compound and then go out driving. The cops would find her passed out in her car on the side of the road and just bring her home without arresting her. This happened every five minutes for YEARS.

I heard a story about Joan trying to sober up, no alcohol in the house, and resorted to drinking mouth wash. Very sad. Jackie tried to help her. A lot of alcoholics are good people, just good people with a problem. I'd drink too if I was married to a Kennedy, especially Teddy.

Any woman who was married to Ted Kennedy would've turned into a raging alcoholic.

"Goddammit Teddy I just going to stay in my room and drink!"

R436, At her lowest point, Kitty Dukakis was drinking rubbing alcohol.

The freaky thing is after all the booze and smokes, the old sponge is still alive somehow.

And I bet she spends no time at the gym.

I think Kitty even drank nail polish remover, poor thing.

Joan was a very pretty woman before the booze ruined her looks.

the booze, being married to a Kennedy, and the scalpel, ruined Joan's looks....all she chose to do

I public Ted was far more willing the talk to the public than Bobbie.

Joan did have a serious relationship after the divorce from Ted, with prominent Boston physician Dr. Gerry Aronoff. The Boston gossip columns reported their every move. Many thought they'd marry.

[quote]I public Ted was far more willing the talk to the public than Bobbie.

Uh, what?

"I wonder who inherited her jewelry? Caroline’s adult children? Maybe it’s in the Kennedy Library."

Caroline auctioned some of it off. Anything she decided to keep is probably still in Caroline's possession.

R447, Jackie's jewelry . . .

Y'all can buy Jackie's jewelry on QVC. She's referred to as Jacqueline Kennedy there - not the old whore in glass pearls.

What is it with these wives of politicians and their drug, alcohol, and pill abuse?

It makes me also think of Cindy McCain and Nancy Reagan. Both had serious pill problems.

R450, Elizabeth Taylor didn't balloon until she was the wife of Senator John Warner.

R451 Yeah that's right. But that era was before my time. I wasn't born until the late 80s.

"Elizabeth Taylor didn't balloon until she was the wife of Senator John Warner."

She was plump when married to Burton. But she didn't get huge until her marriage to John Warner. Supposedly she ate out of boredom; for her, being the wife of a Republican senator was dull indeed. A stable, orderly life was not her to her liking at all. She always craved excitement and chaos and she didn't get it as the wife of a conservative politician. So she ate to relieve her boredom and blew up as big as a house.

The Kennedy men are toxic for women who marry into the family. Jackie was smart to look at it as a transaction as well as marriage, she was realistic and shrewd. first wife of Joe jr divorced after like no time and several children. He actually used connection so he could have the marriage annulled by the Church, same church which likely baptized his children, so he could marry in a church for next marriage...that’s low. Ted killed and abandoned Mary Jo, he or someone else may have been able to save her from drowning in the car accident. He was married at the time to poor Joan, who stood by his side throughout the aftermath. His wretched sisters were awful to wives of their brothers too. Homely cows. Then there was RFK jr divorcing his wife Mary to run off with tv actress...she killed herself leaving two children. The photo he who cheated on wife with babysitter and it was reported in press. And of course JFK jr, who killed his wife and her sister, despite not his intention. The common denominator is they only think of themselves and what they want , to hell with women, esp ones they committed to marriage in the church.

Meant to say Michael ? Kennedy, the one who died playing ball on skis and hit tree.

Ted was a demon. I wanted to gag hearing all the whitewashing from his buddies after he finally died. Funnily enough, he died from a brain related ailment just like John McCain, another trashbag given a ridiculous amount of reverence.

R454, And we can't leave out the Palm Beach Easter weekend rapist, William Kennedy Smith.

Let's face it, White men are just entitled period.

Democrat or Republican! They are all entitled.

And Trump is the very definition of white male privilege. Only a white man could do all of the fuckery Trump has done in plain sight of the entire world and get away with it.

White and white male privilege is alive and well. Anyone who says any differently is fucking delusional and out of touch.

R450, I have followed the life of Nancy Reagan since she was the first lady of California but I have no recollection of her having a serious pill problem.

R459, It's been well documented that Nancy took amphetamines to keep her weight down.

Nancy fainted in public numerous times from starving herself and taking the dolls, but she always had piano legs.

Is that why Anderson Cooper had to catch her fall? Was Nancy too strung out trying to stay thin?

R458 why go to all white men here? We’re talking about Kennedy culture here. Plenty of men and women in all colors are assholes, we all know that. This family’s culture is multi-generational jerks but widely viewed as something to laud and revere. It’s the hypocrisy and entitlement that chaps my ass. Why is it only on DL that we talk some sense and see through BS? DL, you’re my only hope!

I'm not a fan of the sjw , "woke " twitter activists , they usually drive me up the wall, but I'll give them one thing. They would never slobber over the vile Kennedy swine the way that the old school mainstream media has. For decades we have had to hear about how these degenerate, violent and sociopathic inebriates were the height of decency, statesmanship and class. It was always outrageous to see the members of the mainstream media who regularly sucked the Kennedy's dicks go on smear campaigns against non Kennedy politicians (usually democrats ) for far less egregious offenses than the behavior the Kennedy's engaged in.

[quote]Most Asians, etc, didn’t even know who she was.

You mean the same people who love to see a woman traveling unaccompanied on a bus?

R454 who is Joe Jr who had two marriages? One of Bobby’s sons? I thought Joe jr died in WWI in a plane crash.

Kennedy plane crash victims: Joe Jr. Kick Kennedy disowned by her parents mrs Fitzgerald Kennedy didn’t attend funeral JFK Jr. Wife and sister Aristotle Onnasis’ son while married to JBKO Ted Kennedy survived a plane crash

R454, Bobby's son is former Congressman (& father of a current Congressman) Joseph P. Kennedy III.

Michael Kennedy's siblings, and almost surely Ethel, knew he was sleeping with the underage babysitter long before the story went public.

He would leave his wife, Frank Gifford's daughter, home and take the babysitter on family vacations and their behavior left no doubt to all present that they were fucking.

Jackie also had large man hands and a man sized head in addition to the big feet.

I was always suspicious of the details surrounding her illness and death. Wasn’t the type of lymphoma that she had the same type that AIDS sufferers have? She did diddle Nureyev.

Maurice Tempelsman:

[He is chairman of the International Advisory Council of the Harvard School of Public Health’s AIDS Initiative]

r470 I've had and shared that thought with friends before. It's really far fetched, but is it?

Jackie's final days were brutal. The cancer had spread to her brain and liver. Plus, she had developed pneumonia. She had a living will that requested no extraordinary life saving measures be made. She insisted on returning home, requested and was given a morphine drip and died within a few days.

r470 FFS, the only vagina Nureyev went near was his mother's, at birth! And we're not even sure of that, did they do caesarian in Russia back then?

We need a new thread on Nancy Reagan and Barbra bush to start the new week off with. I wanna gossip about those two and the Reagan/bush years of the white house and post presidencies.

Will someone make the thread.

The new Barbara Bush biography is full of gossip about Bar and Nancy and how much they disliked each other. After HW Bush lost in '92, Nancy called the Bush residence, and Bar told her never to call again!

Let's make a thread than!

r473 if Jackie were as sick as reported, she wouldn't have been strolling round Central Park bewigged in headscarf and sunglasses mere days before her demise.

Like her life, Jackie's death was choreographed theatre. She knew the cancer was advancing in her liver and brain, so she donned her favourite Hermes scarf, called the paparazzi and she and Maurice went for a final walk in the park, her swan song, in effect saying goodbye to the world.

It was beautiful, artful PR, she was allowing the world one final glimpse of her. She went home, hopped into her favourite pajamas, a different silk scarf wrapped around her bald pate, slipped under the covers of her favourite Irish linen, under the canopy of her four poster bed, (her bedroom was actually redecorated weeks before her death in anticipation for her death scene, the lady was setting the stage). She looked around her at the end, at her fine and not so fine belongings and instructed her family to sell what they didn't want, knowing her flotsam would command good prices. She was hooked up to a morphine drip and elegantly ended her life. She only got away with it because of who she was and her money.

The casket from Frank E. Campbell was delivered to 1040 and Jackie was embalmed and prepared for burial in her own bedroom (in a Carolina Herrera gown) as per her wishes (she didn't want her body taken to the funeral home where it might be gawked at) before the casket was moved to the living room for an informal pre -funeral wake. Maurice had breakfast and read the newspapers by the casket one final time, as they had always done together in life. Carly Simon got in trouble for attempting to place the lyrics to her song about Jackie 'Touched By The Sun' on her casket by a power tripping nasty Ed Schlossberg. Bunny Melon, who had been arranging flowers in the basement of 1040, reassured Carly that Jackie would get her lyrics (the casket lid was later lifted to add letters and mementos from John and Caroline, and Carly's was included).

Even the announcement of her own death was choreographed by Jackie ...how she had 'passed on surrounded by her books and the people and things that she loved' etc. had been penned by Jackie herself, she even told John what to wear and what time to make the announcement (and the world actually believed dopey JOhn jnr could come up with such elegant prose!). Jackie even had a hand in writing Ted's eulogy (again, you believe strawberry- vanilla- chocolate Ted Kennedy could come up with that?).

Lee despised Jackie to the end and only appeared once at 1040 during her sister's illness, to say goodbye at he deathbed, and subsequently showed no emotion.

Jackie was a clever bitch who demanded everyone stay silent about her life, even after death. She designed and edited her life and lived on her own terms, not many can say they've been able to do that. The dame really did have a sense of drama about her.

R478 All of this is commonly known to the public at large. You told us nothing new. But it was still fun reading what you wrote.

^^most of that is on public record, a few things I;ve never heard, but sound very like something Jackie would do. Jackie ringing the paps before she went for her final walk- it was all planned as a final goodbye....decorating her bedroom for her death scene, taking her life... writing her death announcement... being embalmed at home all very plausible and very Jackie...Carolina Herrera was a favourite the last decade of her life...I believe it all...John JOhn did always seem impeccably dressed when he announced she had died, the words were elegant but he didn't seem at ease saying them so I believe they weren't his...very interesting nonetheless

Bullshit, re ending her life with a morphine drip. She may have been on one, but she was very Catholic. She would not have committed suicide. Now, I wouldn’t be surprised if members of her family weren’t “proactive.”

[quote]she was very Catholic. She would not have committed suicide.

That's adorable that you think Catholics actually follow their faith.

Jackie wasn't all that religious.

R482 that might be the case today, but pretty much every biographer of Jackie O. talks about how she was pretty Catholic. Maybe not crazed, but enough that she wouldn’t contemplate suicide. In fact, after JFK died, she actually was feeling suicidal, and was terrified about feeling that way because of her religion.

R472, not at all...it would not surprise me if it were true. Imagine the scandal of one of America’s most beloved First Ladies succumbing to AIDS...

I dunno... they offed dying George V to make sure it made the right newspapers first... entirely plausible she made quiet arrangements for an end to the end.

r484 When Kennedy was killed Jackie was indeed suicidal. She asked her priest if it were bad that she prayed every night that God take her, Apparently she even suggested that Bobby and Ethel adopt her children and add to their brood as they loved children so much. (this I read in Barbara Leaming's Mrs Kennedy)

Can you imagine John John and Caroline going from Jackie as a parent to that loud, messy pig Ethel?

^^probably what kept Jackie from doing herself in!

A lot of clergy don't see it as suicide these days when death is imminent and close and the patient, in extreme pain, is helped along a bit. Everyone involved in hospice knows this goes on, nobody talks about it. Illegal for anyone involved if they're caught, but it happens, and so it should. It's humane. There would be scores of Catholic people who wouldn't even know their relatives actually died from the effects of end of life drugs and not actual natural causes, albeit when they were already very close to death.

"When Kennedy was killed Jackie was indeed suicidal."

She was seriously, severely depressed after the death of her infant son Patrick. Jackie had serious mental health problems, and no wonder. Mental disturbance ran in her family.

^^^ 'mental health disturbances' as you've put it, do not have to be genetic. You also said 'and no wonder', and yes, the woman went through hell Emotional trauma can damage the brain to a point that it develops mental illness. I have a friend; a burly, strong, masculine, rough and tumble man who had a depressive breakdown when he went bankrupt and his wife subsequently left him. He told me he no longer looked down his nose at people with mental illness as it can happen to anyone, he never thought it would happen to him and that he'd ever be in a psychiatric facility,

R478, Only about 80% of your rant is accurate, the rest is pure fiction.

I remember reading that, R487, and being surprised by it. I can't see Jackie approving of Ethel's parenting style.

r478 , r479 said it was all true?...it's not implausible though. How do we know it's pure fiction? Who are any of us to doubt its accuracy? There's only a handful of people alive who can verify it...Caroline, Ed, Maurice, and the staff.

R494, Jackie would have more likely wished Caroline and John to be adopted by the Shrivers, who would have provided a more stable home.

^^^I read that too in Leaming's book about Jackie. You say and do silly things when you're in shock, indeed shock and clinical depression. The mind is not thinking clearly. It was probably a throw away remark made to somebody that has been blown out of proportion. If I remember correctly, Jackie was also drinking heavily, on anti depressant medications and probably also still being jabbed with Max Jacobsen's elixir, the poor woman wasn't in her right mind.

I read she gave custody to Onassis. She was getting that money by hook or by crook.

Jack- leen rhymes with queen!!!

When one has cancer you can go from walking in the park to dying quickly. All the hospice meds make it bearable to transition out of this world.

[quote]every biographer of Jackie O. talks about how she was pretty Catholic.

She had affairs. (And may have even slept with her brother-in-law). So she wasn't that observant.

Plus, suicide would totally fit Jackie's control-freak need to stage manage her own death. Die while she was still camera ready. And on her terms.

It's not suicide when you have terminal cancer.

I tried arguing something similar, R502. Didn't work then either.

R330, she was a woman of her time, with plenty of substance for that period. Each First Lady is unique and should be considered in that context.

R504 Apparently, we are currently living in the "Age of the Barely Literate Whore."

This is one of the last photos taken of JBKO. The woman was a shadow of herself, probably less than 100 pounds. The morphine drip is not uncommon these days for terminal cases. She went out the way she wished to.

Is it true she only slept on bed linen once? I mean her linen budget alone must have been absorbent.

[quote]I mean her linen budget alone must have been absorbent.

I’m sure they gave her Depends to avoid that. Hospice care is pretty good with things like that.

Hospice care is intended to kind of snowball. Initially the pain medicine is administered to provide relief from pain. This usually leads to slower and weaker breathing which in turn leads to higher doses of pain medicine being administered until their breathing slows to a stop. I wouldn't consider this suicide.

In the end didn't they drill a hole in her skull to pour chemo into? She fought till the end.

Has the thread R475 requested be created about Barbara Bush and Nancy Reagan happened? I don't see it.

[quote]Has the thread [R475] requested be created about Barbara Bush and Nancy Reagan happened? I don't see it.

Here..........

R466 sorry, Joe Kennedy II, RFK’s son.

Yeah, there was Jack & Bobby’s older brother, Joe Jr., but Bobby’s son is Joe II, whose son the congressman is Joe III.

Why does the ring at r448 look like Caroline teethed on it?

I think Jackie wore it somewhere she couldn't smoke.

There was nowhere Jackie "couldn't smoke." Everybody just let her do it. Same thing with Bette Davis.

She stole lots of lighters. Her crowd would have jewel encrusted, gold, silver plated fancy lighters strewn about. It was well known to keep an eye out for yours if Jackie was around.

Thieving whore - -

Broke women are penniless. JBKO was never without. She wanted very much more. She was a privileged, somewhat ugly white woman who had only two ambitions in life. To be very rich, and to have children.

Jackie grew up as a "poor relation" and it had a huge impact on her. Her mother really did a number on her psychologically, as well. And then when you factor in the times and the circumstances Jackie grew up in, you can understand why she was so worried about money.

Jackie was never ugly, she was never beautiful, but there was something charismatic about her; her style, the right clothes, those huge glasses that professed a need for privacy but only attracted attention, her mystery, class, an enigmatic allure that she herself created because she probably knew she wasn't traditionally beautiful. She made herself attractive by always appearing immaculate and by saying nothing, teasing us with the secrets she may or may not have, she was really very clever, because we're still talking about her.

On her quest for money and security she ended up famous. She just didn't want to be famous and it made her more alluring. People always think of fame and fortune, but you couldn't pay me enough to be famous. It's not something I want to truly understand. It must be awful for someone who doesn't want it.

She happily married into two vile wealthy enterprises. She was displayed as a prize by both of them for quite similar purposes. As her value increased, she raised her prices accordingly.

Perhaps she didn't expect the fame in the beginning and was shocked by the intrusion of it when she only set out to marry well. But surely she knew marrying JFK meant fame as well as fortune, even First Lady. Jackie was never naïve. I think she appreciated the fame and sometimes encouraged it, but on her own terms. She couldn't have it on her own terms so she learnt to use and manipulate the media to get what she wanted. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. There are ways of ensuring more privacy for yourself that Jackie never took up. Her friend Bunny Mellon succeeded well in that domain. She wouldn't have lived on 5th Avenue on Central Park if she wanted to be a recluse, she would have lived at Red Gate Farm on Martha's Vineyard if she'd really craved total privacy. She was a contradiction. She loved to tease the media.

learnt?

She was a well raised whore.

I wonder who's worse when it comes to $$$. Jackie or her sister lee. Their mother Janet taught them both to always go for $$$ no matter what.

DL always paint both sisters as greedy though. But all greed isn't the same. Jackies greed was more about lifelong financial security for herself and her children.

While Lee's greed was probably similar, but more so to finance her materialistic jet setting socialite lifestyle she enjoyed living so much.

There's different types of greed and different reasons behind them.

I always found Lee repulsive when it came to using men for money and funding her lifestyle. Jackie not so much. Lee seemed far more shallow and superficial and had less of a social conscience , and by all accounts was just nasty. Lee seemed to be one of these women who feel an entitlement to money and an entitlement to treat people like dirt purely because they are beautiful.

Jackie's breath must have been deplorable due to her chain smoking.

JBKO said, “Marry once for love, once for money and last for companionship.” Maurice was married and is still married even though he hasn’t lived with his wife since 1942.

^^^Jackie Onassis never said that, it was just attributed to her because it applied to her. She never married Maurice and the saying was attributed to a lot of famous women before Jackie. The saying is 'You marry once for love, second for money, and third for companionship. Even if Jackie thought it she'd never be vulgar enough to say it.

I was going to say the exact same thing R531. Jackie Kennedy would never say such a thing. Especially since she wanted the world to forget she was married more than once. After she murdered Onassis and secured her fortune and independence, she graduated right back into the Kennedy fold. She protected her husband's legacy, knowing it needed it with each passing year and new biography. She always planned to return to it - Her role in history as the beloved wife of the fallen hero. The thousand nights of Camelot. The eternal flame and all those lies. Jackie Kennedy Onassis wasn't a real housewife of Southampton. She didn't have taglines.

^^^ I agree, Jackie considered herself to only have one true husband. Funnily enough Onassis was dropped from her funeral service but appears on her grave. She loved the notoriety of being Onassis too. Full on contradictions.

R530, 1942? That's ridiculous.

"In 1984, the Tempelsmans obtained a religious divorce but continued to be legally married. He moved into the Stanhope Hotel, a short walk from Jackie’s apartment on Fifth Avenue, and eventually moved in with her."

R522 MARY!!

What’s the point of a getting a religious divorce and not a legal divorce?

^^^you can fuck other people and live with them (i.e. Jackie Onassis) but you don't have to split the money with wifey! (and there is clearly a lot of money up for grabs #diamonds) Ironically Maurice's wife was a marriage therapist!

R137 you can do that anyway....with or without a divorce.

^^^you clearly don't understand these people, or the Jewish

R530 Wikipedia tells me the Tempelsmans were married in 1949, a whole 7 years after you say they STOPPED living together,

Didn't Jackie also work to save Central Park from being bulldozed and developed in the 70s? I remember some documentary mentioning this.

Yes, that's where she met Nureyev, in the Ramble.

R539, then please explain it to me... what’s up with “the Jewish”?

R541 Do you mean grand central station? Not central park? Who the hell would go along with bulldozing central park. I would think that would cause mass hysteria in NYC and across the country. That's a national and world famous park in one of the most exciting cities in the world.

R544. I know of her Grand Central efforts. I seem to remember that a coalition had started in the 70s that wanted to start developing Central Park (not "bulldoze" I guess, sorry). She worked to halt that IIRC.

They say Ted actually had some sort of broom closet in his office which had a small bed in it for sex with interns and the like. This by the way when he was as swollen and round as a walrus. Why do these pretty little interns do it? If you're going to suck off a senator, or fuck him, wouldn't you at least choose one less repellant?

If Obama/Beto/Pete gained a ton of weight I'd still be down to fuck.

[quote]I public Ted was far more willing the talk to the public than Bobbie.

Looks like Joan is here and she's been drinking!

^ lol

I forget, what was her attitude toward Big and Little Edie? Did she genuinely like them or was the Grey Gardens fix up both to avoid embarrassment and a matter of "Oh shit, time to clean up a mess."

Does Caroline ever spend any of that $$$ she inherited from her mother? You never she photos of her out living it up the way the Kardashians do. Or having a pretty woman moment walking down the street with a hand full of shopping bags. And you never see her with any of her society friends exiting restaurants in the upper east side met with fury of paparazzi flashes as she's getting into a waiting car with a driver.

I've seen photos of her getting on a private jet before, and her on vacation with her kids. But not really living it up the way celebrities do. Doesn't she live on park avenue?

Why is she so hidden from public view?

Discretion, r551.

Caroline doesn't have to prove anything. She rich, and didn't have to fuck the BBC for fame.

Caroline is just a boring nerd. She's got none of her mother's looks or style or taste or sense of theatre, or her fathers charisma. She's the academic type who takes herself far too seriously to be interested in anything as trivial and fickle as fashion and probably resents her mother for being obsessed with image.

She reminds me of a christian soccer mom house fraus from the suburbs who lectures in women's studies at the local university, albeit with 500 million + in the bank and a few really famous relatives. I can see her driving the kids to school in a family van singing happy clappy songs

I guess she's not shallow or superficial or pretentious, just a low key bore really, perhaps she had enough of the glamor and fame and flashbulbs when she was a kid.

She's more a Kennedy than a Bouvier and she's got Eunice Shriver's face . Her lined face makes her appear 20 years older than she is, but, she has had some tragedy in her life I guess.

[quote]I forget, what was her attitude toward Big and Little Edie? Did she genuinely like them or was the Grey Gardens fix up both to avoid embarrassment and a matter of "Oh shit, time to clean up a mess."

Here is a clue: She only helped them after it hit the papers.

R454, you "guess" Caroline's had "some tragedy" in her life?! How very generous of you.

[quote] The holding of JFK "brains in her hands" is mighty powerful language charlie, but what else would you do with someone's brains in your hands?

Snack?

[quote] Yes, that's where she met Nureyev, in the Ramble.

My goodness! Meeting up with Nureyev in the Rambles, going to fisting shows at the Anvil with Truman Capote... no wonder gay men appreciate her so much!

Jackie never seemed to be close to any of her relatives. She had very little to do with the Bouviers, not just the Edies.

^ Except, perhaps, for her younger half Auchincloss sister, to whom she donated bone marrow in a vain attempt to save her from death by cancer.

R507, You write good. As far as being a recluse, 5th and Park Avenue are filled with them, usually in the best buildings where the help does all the interaction with the public. A friend of mine lives in a really good building on Fifth Ave, 1060 I think, just ip from 1040. There is a lady with a 15 room apartment who hasn't been seen in years but still has a chauffeur waiting for her in front. He mostly drives the other help to go shopping, etc. Her Doctors visit her and some family members. That's it.

Here's an apartment at 1060 5th Ave. It's......interesting.

R461 I love stories like that about the wealthy. Keep them coming. This is why I miss the old vanity fair.

JFK Jr. looks like Jackie’s father. I always thought he looked like a Kennedy but he looks like her father Black Jack.

Rosemary Kennedy had a mild learning disability and her father insisted on a lobotomy. She was never the same after. Eunice Shriver started Special Olympics because of her passion for people with intellectual disabilities.

Why did the Widow Kennedy Onassis live on Fifth instead of Park? Seems très déclassé, non?

No Jews allowed on Fifth back then.

R566. 1040 Fifth Ave is a better building than most buildings on Park. Jackie could have gotten into any building in New York. R567. There were plenty of Jews on Fifth Ave. back then, just not in every building. 1040 Fifth Ave. has always had Jewish residents. Andre Meyer's son lived there and probably still does as does Candice Beergen and her Husband Marshall Rose. So did the Bronfmans and other prominent Jews.

Back then Jews lived on the East side of Park Avenue. The West side of Park Ave was reserved for WASPs.

How the hell did I not know that Candace Bergen lives at 1040 Fifth? r568 Thank you! Yes, Jackie's apartment is not a typical Fifth Ave apartment. I've often wondered how that apartment just happened to be available when she was relocating. There's almost nothing comparable to it. And, fuck the Koch brother that gutted it.

r570, Even though they were not yet publicly linked, Aristotle Onassis had always been a big benefactor of Jackie Kennedy. When she indicated her interest in relocating to NYC, he found a suitable apartment for her and had the owners killed.

As First Lady, Jackie's favorite room in the WH was the Red Room

Find me a Parisian apartment... on Central Park.

She kept her penchant for red at 1040.

In March of 1968, Jamie visited Jackie at her home in Manhattan and then spent a few nights there with her. Janet stayed two floors below with her friend Mary Whitehouse. March 4 was Jamie’s twenty-first birthday. To celebrate, Jackie hosted dinner at her home and presented him with a birthday cake. Then she took him to see Neil Simon’s Plaza Suite at the Plymouth Theatre on Broadway, along with Caroline and John Jr. “We got to the theater late,” Jamie recalled. “New York audiences are notoriously annoyed when people show up late for a Broadway show. So, the lights are out and the show is on, and we’re trying to find our seats, stumbling over people in the dark, when someone recognized Jackie. Then, the whispers started, and they grew and grew, going from one row to the next until, finally, there was so much excitement that the management really should have just stopped the show, turned up the house lights, and had Jackie take a bow. “During intermission, Jackie asked me to stand outside the restroom and try to prevent women from going in while she was in there,” Jamie recalled. “Earlier, I had told her that maybe we should have the Secret Service with us, but she said she didn’t want them that night. As traumatized as she was, she was also stubborn. She needed protection, but she also abhorred it. So, of course, I tried my best for her, but forget it. Try telling a mob of pushy New Yorkers they can’t go into the bathroom because Jackie Kennedy is in there! Finally, by the time Jackie came out, she was really frazzled and looked like a deer in the headlights. She seemed stricken by the whole ordeal. I felt terrible for her. ‘I’m so sorry,’ I told her, ‘I really tried.’” Every birthday, Jackie would give Jamie a check, a dollar for each year and an extra dollar on top of that. (This year, of course, it would be for $22, which is actually about $150 in today’s money.) Jamie always took the check to the National Camera store on 17th and Pennsylvania in Washington and used it to buy film. The store would never cash the check, though. Instead, the owner would frame it on a wall with all of the other checks Jackie had written Jamie over the years. “Each check was worth more to them as a historical memento than it was for its amount,” Jamie would recall, laughing. “No one wanted to let go of a signed ‘Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy’ check, certainly not in the 1960s. She told me once that she could never properly balance her bank account because the checks she wrote to people were never cashed!”

[quote]I heard a story about Joan trying to sober up, no alcohol in the house, and resorted to drinking mouthwash. Very sad. Jackie tried to help her. A lot of alcoholics are good people, just good people with a problem. I'd drink too if I was married to a Kennedy, especially Teddy.

When she relapsed around 2005, she was drinking vanilla extract and trying to explain it away by saying she'd become really interested in baking.

Caroline demolished my beloved Red Gate Farm. It was a modest tasteful New England beach house. Now a 40 room mega mansion monstrosity. Child has parvenu taste.

Caroline's " taste " ^^

Dear R570. The apartment is now owned by Billionaire Glen Dubin who had Thomas Obrien of Aero redo it for him and his wife Eva. It is supposed to be spectacular and very low key. Dubin was previously married to Goop's best friend and stylist Elizabeth Saltzman who left Dubin for Jellybean Benitez. Dubin was only merely rich then. He is now a multibillionaire. He is also rumored to have one of the biggest cocks in New York. He's allegedly Bisexual. Eva Dubin was and still is close to Palm Beach pedophile Jeffrey Epstein.

Don't you have to have $100 million dollars liquid to move into one of these fifth avenue/park avenue elitist buildings? The boards are very picky about who gets to move into these places. They're almost like clubs you live in. Only the "right pedigree" is allowed.

R577, After Jackie died, there was a rumor that Oprah was going to purchase it.

R579, His cock had BETTER be huge.

"And then when you factor in the times and the circumstances Jackie grew up in, you can understand why she was so worried about money."

She came from a moneyed background, so she never had ANY reason to "worry about money." She never "worried" about money. She just lusted after it. It was sheer greed.

Another tidbit about greedy Jackie. While she was First Lady she and JFK received gifts from 106 different Heads of State from all over the world. One such gift was a GOLD purse, embellished with rubies, diamonds and emeralds. She loved getting the expensive presents and in fact would get very pissed off if the gift WASN'T costly. One foreign leader gave her some clothes which may or may not have been used; boy, that made her mad! I guess she was expecting diamonds and rubies. After she left the White House she took her extravagant gifts with her. Her behavior was unseemly and disgusting. Eventually a rule was enacted to ensure there was no impression of impropriety. The Foreign Gifts and Declarations Act of 1966 put a limit to the value of a gift a president could accept, with most gifts going directly to the National Archives after being presented.

as to the comment about JKBO not marrying Onassis mainly to provide safety and security for herself and her children. She flew to Greece for the wedding with her children and she lived with Ari for several months in Greece, mostly on his private island of Scorpios. It was patrolled by Onassis security at all times off shore. Yes her kids went back to private schools in the USA after her marriage but she remained abroad.

she went from living in a fish bowl on fifth ave, flying commercial,etc...her only perk was secret service protection. WIth Onnasis she had access to his AIRLINE and she took over entire aircraft as the only passenger. He had massive security forces. He had his own island. He had his own large Yacht with hundreds of crew. I would say Onassis provided a great deal of protection and isolation. She would have spent less time in NYC if the marriage had worked out. WIthin a month or so of their wedding Ari started publicly seeing maria callas again. Jackie was humiliated. SHe did what she had done when JFK was constantly fucking around, she absenced herself from the scene. SHe married Onassis with the thought that he COULD provide the extremely rarified protected life he could provide and she wanted, but the marriage didnt work out as she hoped. Money was not her only motivator, if it had been she would not have accepted a paltry 4% of his net worth when he died in 1975.

r583, Jackie was raised in a very financially insecure environment. Her father pissed away all the money. Any money Jackie grew up with was her stepfather's, and she wasn't getting a dime of it.

"if the marriage(to Onassis) had worked out"

What exactly would that look like R584?

If not feeling safe was her concern, the secret service would be preferable over a private island and being payed for butt sex. She wanted the MONEY.

JKBO was a whore.

Why didn't the marriage work?

The marriage didn't work because the world condemned her for marrying him, she was more hunted than ever. She didn't feel protected at all after her vacay. She never intended to be a wife to Onassis and she was surprised when it was expected. She was a dumb bitch. She overestimated herself and the "respect" she felt due by the world. Was there ever a more obvious and loveless exchange for dollars than the marriage between Jackie and Onassis? She was shrewd about money, dumb about the real world.

She worked strategically but without personality for the next 20 years to earn back her place next to JFK's body. Did she ever have a personality? Not publicly.

The marriage was a financial transaction. Onassis wanted the cache of having the worlds most sought after sophisticated woman. Jackie of course wanted hard cold cash. All she did was shop and was frigid. That’s why he started fucking Callas shortly after he married her. And Ari just let her do what she wanted. Money and shopping were Jackie’s true callings. The media has built the myth of Jackie over decades. There might’ve been some love and affection between her and JFK at first, but it didn’t last.

It's been said my many that if JFK had lived, he and Jackie probably would've divorced in the 70s.

R589, thanks for explaining everything.

Truth be told. Because she was there. ^

R583 I agree. Jackie's grubbiness was notable even for a rich socialite. Just a loathsome, grubby cunt. I wonder if she ever fucked that oinking subhuman Ted Kennedy.

R590, Jack and Jackie may have well have led separate lives had they been fortunate enough to have had a post-presidency, but I very much doubt they would have divorced. I think this is borne out by the fact that Jackie chose to be buried next to Jack, quoted as saying that she recognized that her role in history was next to her husband.

Time for

A new thread

Which I started

We are still dead

Jackie

And Lee

Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy Onassis was a whore.