Why are so many men in gay relationships ok with their partner sleeping around?

Maybe because sex does not equal love? They are two totally different things.

[quote]Then there’s just the cheaters like my former bitchy boss who is always cheating on his Dominican boyfriend.

I guess your boss told you to fuck off after you somehow fished his number out of HR and stalk-texted him.

Every relationship has is own rules - maybe yours don't always conform with others. It's really between the two people involved.

You sound like you're desperately in lust with your "former bitchy boss" and equally desperate to understand why he won't respond when you bend over and present.

You see him have sex with other people and want to know why he won't have sex with you, so you come here seeking answers.

Like a third grader who has a crush, you lash out at the object of your desire and call him "bitchy" and make moral pronouncements.

Don’t project your irresponsibility and fear of commitment onto the rest of us, R3. This “every relationship has its own rules” crap is just that: crap.

I don't know, but as the single guy who is always being asked to sleep or hookup with the coupled guys I'm over it. I don't care about your husband/boyfriend/wives/kids schedule and I left the guy who showed me his wedding pics.

men are pigs

then don't fuck other people & i agree with #4

Most gay men lack the maturity necessary to develop and maintain actual intimacy and commitment, so open relationships are the norm.

[quote]Most gay men lack the maturity necessary to develop and maintain actual intimacy and commitment, so open relationships are the norm.

Gay male relationships don't have women in them policing the actions of their partners which is the only thing keeping straight men from fucking around. That's the real reason.

MEN are slutty.

> MEN are slutty.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

R9 is a homophobic piece of shit who will die single and lonely.

Men are not genetically predisposed to be monogamous. That behavior has to be learned. If you don't ascribe to societal norms you can have a great partnership in an open relationship.

Open relationships are the norm on Scruff. I've even seen married couples [italic]with children[/italic] looking to hook up. It was disturbing to see them on Instagram with pictures of their kids [italic]and[/italic] pictures of themselves in sexy poses in their underwear.

Men like what's hot. It's hotter to chase a little strange tail than to restrict yourself to the same old tired piece. Follow the money.

I never particularly liked it but every single man I ever dated or was in a relationship with cheated so I just learned to let it go. My 1st husband only cheated when we 1st got together,as did I,but there was a lot of partying and drugs and idiotic youth involved. After 2 years,we both settled down and had 10 wonderful years together and Im 99% sure he didnt cheat because A) he wanted sex every single day B) I never didnt know exactly where he was at all times,as he did with me. Not to say he didnt,but Id like to think not.Nature of the beast unfortunately.

I thought that I wanted monogamy as soon as I landed a permanent boyfriend. In both of my LTRs I started cheating within weeks of committing to them. I’m a hypocrite I know. As soon as they started with questioning my whereabouts or making plans, I would hookup with guys at the steam room in my gym, even at work. I’m not proud of my behavior, not at all. I was relieved whenever we ended things. Now I know that it’s wrong to cheat, but it’s also unrealistic to expect 100% fidelity in a relationship.

Here's the thing. Husband and I have been together for more than 27 years. He's a total bottom, and I'm versatile. We were monogamous for several years, but had a long discussion about an open relationship. We play together sometimes, but apart sometimes as well. Why? Because when he is in the mood to bottom but wants something "new" it works for him. And because I'm versatile, and occasionally want to bottom, it was something that I couldn't get from our relationship. It works for us. And since I am a bit of a voyeur, I love hearing about his exploits. I love watching a guy fuck him, and occasionally fuck the guy as he's fucking my husband.

Open and honest communication.

Spread it all around!!! We’ll all die from lack of self control and selfish sexual behaviors that will ruin relationships and sit and complain about being lonely in life.

Former bitchy boss? Did you quit after last writing us? Or do you have two bosses with Dominican boyfriends?

And, uh, why do you keep writing to us about this?

Because we’re whores darling

The boss was transferred after OP flounced and complained, IIRC.

[quote]Why are so many men in gay relationships ok with their partner sleeping around?

Because he is the best fuck I have ever had.

And funny. And smart. And he bakes the best cookies I've ever eaten.

My husband cheats on me and I hate it. It fucking sucks.

The ones I know that are in open relationships just PRETEND to not care when the partner is fucking someone else but deep down they sure do.

Many gay men have strong libidos and want different partners. Marriage means whatever it wants to the people in it. As long as both partners agree, it's fine.

Why is this any concerns of yours?

It’s bad when you both agree to an open relationship that one gets emotionally invested while the other realizes sex is just sex no love involved

Yes, both have to agree to no emotional attachments...but some guys aren’t built for that

My ex-BF and I were faithful to each other (I think). But I knew he needed a lot of attention, so he always had various flirtations going on. If he actually had sex with someone else, I'd rather not know. I just knew his personality, and figured he was needier than me.

"...they don’t allow anyone else in their home."

That's the element that exposes this shabby couple. Their partner is not a necessary part of their home and worth protecting. But the Lalique is sacrosanct.

Shallow fools.

Sex does not define commitment for many couples, gay or straight.

Just like eating at a restaurant doesn't mean you suddenly hate your partner's cooking.

Eating out a stranger's ass does not in any way equate to eating out.

In my experience, one person wants the open relationship, and the other person tolerates it because they're too afraid to lose their partner.

here's me: was horrible at sports, but would love to play them now. I want to be attracted to the guy I'm with. I don't want to settle or as my friends call it 'change your perspective.'

I don't care if a guy I'd be with wants to go out with his buddies and share stories I didn't experience so I don't need to go along. Vice versa.

I'm more of a 'one man guy' guy. if he wanted to have sex with others, I'm not sure how I'd handle that.

But if I ever am lucky enough to find someone who rocks my world, I'll be faithful.

This is a surprisingly mature thread on this, given how these tend to go.

If everyone is consenting, and honest, then who really cares what other couples do?

In my entire life- two long term relationships and many love affairs, I have never paid much attention to what others did or did not do. None of them ever came to a close because of infidelity or sleeping around etc. I have enough to worry about, without worrying about or judging what others are doing.

[quote]Maybe because sex does not equal love?

That's such bullshit! If the sex is great, then a man will fall in love, or at least in lust. To most gay men, love and lust are the same thing. That poses a big problem to the partner who is sitting at home, who you're not in lust with anymore.

For the cucks who think, "He comes home to me and I'm the one he truly loves," you are fooling yourselves. He's going to leave you eventually. When he jacks off, he's thinking about the other guy(s), who he has better sex with, and who he's more attracted to. He might still love you, but he's not "in love" with you anymore. Stop living in denial.

R35, you did not address OP's question. It is not about what you or anyone else thinks. OP asks why does it happen.

If you are unable to delve into the question, that's fine. Just say so. But why give an answer to a question that hasn't been asked?

the answer is everyone is different. Relationships are defined by those in it.

Boy, did this thread come along at the right time.

I know my husband is having an ongoing thing with someone much younger. Hub does not know that I know and I’m grappling with whether or not to confront him about it. I don’t really care that he’s having sex with someone else (I have done the same once since we got married), it’s really the lying about it that is bothering me the most. I have a hunch that part of the thrill for him is keeping it a secret.

Then Reply 40 : Confront him. if it's an affair & you don't want it then deal with it. Communicate with him. Mean this kindly. No snark.

IDK, my man and I are monogamous, but I guess it's because we really love each other and satisfy each other in a way some of you cannot.

Because monogamy is BORING and usually FUTILE.

(And don't pretend otherwise.)

Thanks, R41.

I keep thinking the affair will peter out on its own but I agree that I need to own that I don’t want it happening.

Open relationships are so much better cheating and lying.

Honestly and open communication are the way to go.

I'm not a monogamist but dumped my bf recently after 18+ months because he was fucking around. After many months of good company and sex, he ghosted. Replied to texts hours to a day or more later. Quit inviting me over. Bailed on a couple social dates we were committed to without explanation, leaving me making excuses. Didn't answer the phone when I called. No explanation; he just disappeared after nearly 2 years. Our relationship was open, but I didn't expect to be frozen out.

I spent a couple weeks feeling bad about it, starting to get over it, then just as suddenly he was back, texting me again, saying we should go out, hang out. I was WTF? He wanted to have sex again. I pointed out that he had been out of touch for a few weeks and to me that seemed as if things were over and I'd had to talk myself into understanding it was over because he disappeared without a word and I wasn't going to be able to change my mind again on a whim.

He made excuses, then got angry, claiming we weren't married. I told him we're not married, but I'm not on-call either. He's still hitting me up for sex, last night. He probably found some strung-out twentysomething who would pretend to give a shit for a couple hits on a glass pipe, but the nature of that is that it ends in a matter of days. Now he wants me to fuck his ass again and he ruined it and I'm not remotely tempted by the idea. The bizarre casualness with which he handled this - and me - has left me really surprised.

R46, I hate to say this, but did he think of you as a BF?

Yes because he said so. And we spent too much time together for anyone to think it was anything else.

WHORES! The lot of you!

Kidding. Who cares what people do. Be honest with your partner and practice ethical non-monogamy if you want. Not my place to judge.

I require open/honest relationships. If you want to go fuck other guys while we're involved. you may do so. I just won't be in a sexual relationship with you any longer. People lie about barebacking and I'm not gonna be on HIV meds for the rest of my life.

I think people basically imitate the behavior they saw going on around them when they were growing up.

so many are but so many arent as well. The younger generation is skewing towards more monogomy as a guess............. as often they decide to have childrem which adds another dimension.

Everybody is different and I am the jealous type which is problematic in relationships,but when couples arent monogomous it isnt always both and not always both on board with an open relationship. In my experience it goes to trust issues and it weakons the bond to fuck around........but that is just my opinion. You are free to have a different opinion.

The biological origin of monogamy is in the desire of the male to know that his offspring are really his, and not that of the muscular guy carrying rocks in the next cave. Thus millenia of very tight social controls on women to be monogamous. (Men, not so much). Romantic love, as we find it in novels, was basically an outgrowth of courtly love, which evolved in medieval times, and it has NOT been a permanent part of human nature . Lots of ridiculous notions going along with that. (Soulmates for all time, beautiful and virtuous woman up on a pedestal, valiant man pledging his undying fidelity, etc etc). Because of endless years of countless novels, poems, films, and plays, we all carry these concepts around in us as though they are REAL things. We are all products of our society. People desperately want to be loved because society has engineered them to desire that, starting in infancy. "Look in the dollhouse - here's mommy, here's daddy".

Biologically, males are designed to procreate as freely and as widely as opportunities provide. The limitation in heterosexual relationships is that the woman can cut the man off from sex, and other women have to have a vested interest in him as a provider and as a father to THEIR children, so they are not going to spread their legs for any man who requests it. We have a conflict between what nature is telling us, and what society is telling us.

Gay people are caught at that crossroads. We don't procreate, so we don't have the biological need for our mates to be monogamous to prove that our children belong to us. But we also have strong societal pressure to conform to this romantic love model, where couples pledge eternal fidelity to one another. To those who have internalized societal pressure to conform to the monogamous romantic love ideal, nothing less will work for them. When they themselves cheat, they will find all sorts of valid reasons for having done so, while all others who cheat are horrible people.

The only sort of love that is REAL between men is a sort of very long term intense friendship, where a man has found someone who shares his sense of humor, his values, who is his intellectual equal, who challenges him, and who is completely compatible with him, sexually and in most other ways. However, sexual attraction will wane over time. Every person posting on here, even the most ardent monogamists, will have to admit that he fantasizes about someone other than his partner when jerking off. Therefore , he isn't being honest when he claims to be monogamous. As Jimmy Carter so famously put it years ago, "He has cheated in his heart".

Because pretending that you’re totally independent does wonders for the male ego.

R42 has it right.

OP, when people are fucking people outside of the "relationship" then it's not a relationship at all. It's just two damaged people failing to have one.

It's really sad, these people clearly don't get on well (and hence why they seek additional people) but they're too damaged and pathetic to be alone. It'll all be tears when they're 70, can't fuck anyone else and realise they can't stand each other. What a waste of a life.

I dont think I will ever be monogamous.I hope when I meet someone, he will feel the same.Who can do that? One person, for eternity?NO Thanks.

Op, the gif from True Blood that you posted, was one of the hottest and funniest scenes I ever witnessed on television.

R11, it is a bad thing to the extent that in the aggregate, STDs are spread around and people often get emotionally hurt. Frankly, I think slutty behavior is worse than racism.

Slutty behavior is terrible. Especially when it’s behind someone’s back.

But how do you compare it to racism??

R59, because it has more tangible effects. Also, people will cry “racist” just for disagreeing with affirmative action or pointing out that black people commit more crime, stuff that isn’t spreading diseases or breaking people’s hearts.

R60 black people aren’t committing more crimes. Many blacks get accused and arrested for crimes they didn’t even commit. Welcome to 2019 where smart phones have been exposing this.

And affirmative action wouldn’t exist if YOU RACIST jerks didn’t keep not giving jobs to black people because they’re black.

You exposed yourself.

One of two is often quite fugly, so he knows his partner will cheat.

[quote] My friend and his husband say do what you want but be safe and don’t ever bring anyone into our bed. They have to host, they don’t allow anyone else in their home. But you can go out and fuck.

You know, to many other people this would be YOU being okay with your partner sleeping around.

It seems like you want everyone to adhere to what is right for you and your partner.

"IDK, my man and I are monogamous, but I guess it's because we really love each other and satisfy each other in a way some of you cannot."

that's so great! ugh, I wish I could have that. just out of curiosity, how long have you been together?

R61, I hope that was sarcasm.

I have no desire to sleep around for the simple reason that I rarely find people attractive enough that I’d want to hook up with them. And one thing that makes a guy unattractive to me is the possibility that he does sleep around and has been with many guys.

I suspect that if I ever do get into a relationship, I would prefer a monogamous relationship for the reason I rarely meet other people I’d want to hook up with and I wouldn’t want my partner sleeping with more people than I sleep with.

Punch and delete!

I don’t want to grow old alone, and I know my partner cheats, but look the other way. I figure once he gets older he will eventually tire of it. He’s 40 years old and I’m 10 years older.

[quote] I'm not a monogamist but dumped my bf recently after 18+ months because he was fucking around. After many months of good company and sex, he ghosted. Replied to texts hours to a day or more later. Quit inviting me over. Bailed on a couple social dates we were committed to without explanation, leaving me making excuses. Didn't answer the phone when I called. No explanation; he just disappeared after nearly 2 years. Our relationship was open, but I didn't expect to be frozen out.

It sounds more like the BF dumped you.

[quote]Our "relationship" was open, but I didn't expect to be frozen out.

Fixed it for you, chump.

OP, the better question is:

Why are so many gay men insistent on being their 70 year old mothers, clutching the hems of their dresses and generally being neurotic prisspots 24/7?

If it's not right for you? Then don't do it.

It’s fair if he brings the trick home for a three-way. Everything should be shared, like community property.

If you wanna do a threesome, cool. But that’s not the same as going out and fucking behind your partners back.

Aww, pooshitshoes is upset because I've called her out on her pedo, smoking and anti-12-step threads. Poo-r shit shoes!

So did Lancelot, r53 .

Bravo, R53. There is a small percentage of people who are naturally monogamous, but for everyone else it's exactly as you say. Open relationships are fraught with physical and emotional dangers, but the only real alternative is serial monogamy. Sexual commitment to one person for a lifetime is tantamount to burying yourself alive.

This is why I'll never let myself get involved with another guy beyond a hookup because it's not worth the sorrow and anger.

Same, R66. I find most men to be not worth the trouble, so when I find one that I like, I have no desire to share.

I fell in love once with a guy that I totally might match. Because he played pro sports the relationship was not visible to everyone. But eventually the pressures of his job led to the demise of the relationship. I see them periodically and I still feel the same way. So there can be romantic love.

How do Barry Diller and DVF keep the flame alive?

My partner and I have an open relationship. Been together 10 years and for the most part, I think it works out OK. I'm bored after 2-3 times with anyone new so there's no jealousy to speak of.

Sounds so romantic.

R79 Wasn't that an Emmett story line on Queer as Folk?

[quote]OP, when people are fucking people outside of the "relationship" then it's not a relationship at all. It's just two damaged people failing to have one.

Yeah, and there's a difference between "sleeping around" (eg. cheating) that the OP refers to and an open relationship. The latter is one where the two people agree to bring another guy in from time to time or to have an outside relationship with someone else if it is agreed upon. That's being open & honest. The former ("sleeping around") implies cheating & dishonesty.

Open relationships aren’t real relationships. Never have been, never will be. If you don’t love your man enough to give up all other men to be with him, then you don’t really love him and you never did.

Monogamy or nothing.

Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Just because heterosexual men are liars and cheats doesn’t mean gay men have to be.

Men are not pre-wired for cheating. That’s a load of misandrist propaganda. You’re just trying to rationalize your fear of commitment.

Women cheat, too, so stop with your misandrist homophobic lies.

"Most gay men lack the maturity necessary to develop and maintain actual intimacy and commitment, so open relationships are the norm."

Judgemental AND misinformed.

I'm betting you're single.

Oh shove it, R90. I’m right and you know it. Devaluing monogamy devalues love and thus devalues homosexuality.

Oh wait, sorry, I was talking to the same person you responded to.

Dear OP, they are not sleeping. Fucking is not sleeping. Leave the euphemisms behind.

Why do so many gay men enjoy projecting their fear of commitment onto other gay men?

R94 In an effort to justify their behavior: if they can't succeed at commitment, they take comfort from the failure of others to do so.

Misery loves company.

Only doormats go along with open relationships out of fear and the desire to please a partner who takes him for granted.

Together for 9 years, monogamous and I would be furious if I found out my hubby is sleeping around.

As a hairdresser #cliche, one of my female clients tried to convince me that open relationships are the new thing and I need to join in.

What R1 said.

Another truth: people are not all the same. Accept that, and move on. Don’t judge people, and MYOB.

[quote]As a hairdresser #cliche, one of my female clients tried to convince me that open relationships are the new thing and I need to join in.

Like I said: it’s always heterosexuals who are trying to drag us down to their level, and when we do, we’re the ones who get blamed for their lowering of moral standards.

The better question: why do so many gay men feel they have to sleep around to feel validated? Are you that desperate for attention that you feel you have to fuck everyone and anyone in order to feel better about yourself? And yes, this applies to straight men as well.

And no happy horseshit about men are "hard wired" for this crap. Hard wired is simply a cop out for bad behavior.

R53, very well written. Very informative.

When you're the jealous type, you learn a relationship can never work and you just let that die somewhere quiet inside. Then you fuck around aimlessly...

Most of this is anecdotal. No real proof that gay men are more or less monogamous. I know lots of truly monogamous gay couples of all ages. The young ones are raising kids and since have the time or energy because both daddies are working.

..Don't have the time

They're whores, darlin'.

[quote]Why are so many men in gay relationships ok with their partner sleeping around

OP, is this what you tell your wife when you cheat on her with some whore?

“Honey, don’t worry about us. Now those gays really cheat on each other...”

Well said R100

Monogamy has always been natural and effortless for me, and I'm hardly the only gay man for whom this is true. It's just that the libertines get all the attention. Same as it is in the heterosexual community -- I know plenty of hetero couples who've been married for 20, 30, 40 years and always faithful to each other*, but that doesn't make for good editorial copy or clickbait-y headlines.

The key is to find someone who feels the same way you do. Be honest about what you want, whether it's monogamy, serial monogamy or some level of openness. Then live that with integrity.

*Yes, I can't be 100% sure they've been faithful, but I'd bet good money on it.

There are a lot of gays that revel in finding new hook-ups all the time and reject any chances at real relationships. Then when they age out of getting high-quality easy lays they wonder why it’s so hard to have a relationship and cry about being alone for the rest of their lives. If you wait too long, that ship will have sailed.

Any side pieces here who'd like to weigh in?

[quote]The better question: why do so many gay men feel they have to sleep around to feel validated?

"Because life is a banquet!"

Would you settle for 39 like Jack Benny, R110?

I am faithful to my partner of 16 yrs. I understand the sex does get boring with the same person. Love is not sex. The thought of my partner going and fucking around with god knows who and then coming back to me to be physical is not my thing.

[QUOTE]And no happy horseshit about men are "hard wired" for this crap. Hard wired is simply a cop out for bad behavior.

My 2 best friends are straight and married. I ask them if they have fucked other women since getting married because every time the 3 of us go out for drinks I can see other women eye fucking them. They say that although they have plenty of opportunities to do so and the temptation is strong they would never do anything that could hurt their wives in any way.

They have been married for about 10 years, who knows how much longer this fidelity would last.

Keeping a love life interesting is something you have to actively work at.

New, strange, different=exciting. The temptation to wander is obvious. But it's risky on several levels. I really don't think a healthy, thriving relationship can be open. I've noticed many couples start to accept and pursue outside venues when their relationship starts to falter, but they own a house together so they stay together but more as friends.

Two out of three couples I know in NYC bring in a third on a regular basis.

So R115, how did they come to the decision to just be friends? Was it mutual or bc of the financial obligations they keep this arrangement.

[quote]why do so many gay men feel they have to sleep around to feel validated?

Why do women do it?

Why do straight men do it?

Why do bi men do it?

A better question: Why do people who ask these kinds of questions never analyze any group other than gay men?

R118 It is a way for the undesirables to cast stones at those who they feel would probably reject them in real life. They feel they are unwanted because men can't commit, not because they have repellent personalities. They don't give a shit about being sanctimonious and judgmental towards the others you mentioned because they don't feel slighted or passed-by romantically by those groups.

Most people have their feelings about monogamy/open relationships and navigate life accordingly, the ones who constantly harp about it on here exude bitterness.

As a 48 year old gay man, I know my hoeing days are over for the most part. That’s why I’m happy to be partnered. However, if he dabbles on the side I’m fine with that. I just don’t really wanna know about it.

R120,

I’m 10 years younger and agree with you. I don’t want to know about it, but it doesn’t bother me. I’d prefer if he didn’t do anal, but if he does, he better use a condom or tell me he fucked up, go on post-exposure prophylaxis, and I would wait 6 months before having sex with him again. I would also be bothered if it cut into our “together” time.

A straight woman friend of mine, also 30s, told me that she wouldn’t care if her boyfriend/husband cheated on her. I think that confident people can get over their partners fooling around.

[quote]I think that confident people can get over their partners fooling around.

Time was, such people were called "doormats."

How is it a doormat if both are doing it?

Both aren't doing it in R122's examples.

And I didn't say they were doormats -- just that society labeled them as such in times past. Things have changed.

Inadvertent sidepiece here, R109! It ended last weekend. I didn't know it of course, because the guy answered my PoF ad that said 'Singles only. No married, partnered, pending separations or similar.' We had 4 dates, 2 of them sex. The guy had a real nice big house. Pool and hot tub out back. Weather is perfect here now. I suggested checking out the hot tub and he deflected. We talked in the living room and had sex in the guest room.

Then a second date. Again, living room, guest room for sex. I wandered slightly pretending to forget where the bathroom was, seeing what would happen. He watched me like a hawk. 'No don't go back there, my dogs are in there. Don't let them out.' I said it's okay, I like dogs. I saw him suppress an eye roll. I was suspicious.

It was my turn to eye roll on the last date when once again it was clear that we were confined to the two front-most rooms of the house. This time I was to the point. Why can't we sit in the large attractive backyard? Why are we having sex in the guest room? Then he said he had a partner -- he suppressed another eyeroll as he said this -- and his partner, who no longer lives in the house but is half owner, made the rule that there would be no fucking in 'their' bed, and 'guests' could only be in the LR and guest room. I was gobsmacked.

While he was muttering he made a comment about security, and now I had an eyeroll. I started asking rude questions calmly.

Why did you reply to my ad that said no married people?

Why would you have me over repeatedly and think you could keep me corralled to 2 rooms and cover up the fact you have a partner?

Why do you think a reasonable person would allow themselves to be bossed around over a private agreement you have with your boyfriend who I don't even know about?

Do you do drugs? Is that why you're worried about your tricks ganking you, because you have druggies over? I got up and left. He sent me another text asking me to come back. I didn't reply.

Then he had the gall to text me again to invite me over for a sex party this past Wednesday. I declined.

R121

" I think that confident people can get over their partners fooling around."

One of the stupidest things I've read on the DL, and that's saying something.

If anyone cheated on me, it would get ugly. It would be over, for them.

Being ok with your partner cheating is NOT strength or confidence. Quite the opposite

I'm the jealous type so I know I could never be in an open relationship and if I found out my partner in a monogamous relationship had decided to cheat on me, Well, He would come to regret that decision.

Same here r130.

if theres no love then theres no monogamy . I was a slut from hell,and when I met my 1st true love I made it perfectly clear I wouldnt be faithful. he put up with my shit for about 2 years,then lowered the hammer on me. I was so full of my self I thought I could have my cake and eat it too,but ultimately I realized I was acting like that because I felt unworthy of love and figured id hurt him before he hurt me. We had a spectacular 3 day argument that ended with him packing a bag and slamming the door on the way out.The second that door closed i realized I loved him fiercely and my heart was crushed.I cried the whole night until about 6 the next morning when I hear someone at the door and I run and open it and there he stood.As Im sobbing in his arms he kisses me all over my face and kept telling me "Hush now,its going to be allright now" and for the next decade I never even looked at another man again.Once I realized why I was acting like that I never cheated on another lover again.

Wow R32

[quote]Things have changed.

No, they haven’t. Heterosexuality is just as perverted and immoral as ever, and promiscuity is just as dangerous as ever. And last time I checked, “thou shalt not commit adultery” was still one of The Ten Commandments.

Monogamy isn’t natural. It’s sort of like demanding that people eat less and lose weight— doesn’t work out despite intentions

I swore up and down that I wanted a partner to be monogamous with.

When I finally got one, I eventually got so bored that in cheated, not emotionally, by for sex a few times. About once a year, I just need to experience sex with someone new. After an encounter, I’m usually good

I was am so surprised how often my straight married guy friends cheat—nearly all of them. It’s so common

Doubt it’s all.

Cause I know many that don’t cheat and keep out of situations that can cause them too.

After many years,loving a person you come to realize physical love is not that big of a deal breaker if you truely love somebody.A funny thing,then you get to rating their choices..."Why would you choose that?"...or my favorite "his sex drive was weak". This after my partner of many years brought someone new into our bed.Poor addition came so quickly and fell asleep.I teased my partner for years about it.It was our inside joke when going down this slippery slope....and kind of my goal if a third was invited.Getting that third "out" as quickly as possible then mocking my partner about how weak their sex drive was.It pissed him off all the time and made me feel "in control".Silly right.

The slippery slope is real. Life is not a debate class.

I cheated on both my bfs for the usual reasons. Open relationships though just seem like fake relationships. I don't believe they work in the big picture human nature kind if way.

I married to get what I wanted, not for monogamy. Marriages are legal contracts between two individuals. It’s my insurance contract and I have the receipts should it end poorly.

R142 is projecting his delusions on to those of us who are not totally amoral whores like he is.

What’s the point of even being in a relationship if it’s not a monogamous one?

R144 agreed.

I don’t see the point of being in a relationship if you can’t be with just one person. Be friends that fuck then and you have side pieces.

No, R142. Don't kid yourself. Marriages are legal contracts between two people and the state. The state has a lot of input and control. And adultery committed by your partner is one of the ways the state allows you to escape the life time marriage contract.

I hate that word "cheat." It is carried right over from Straight Land where women keep men on tight leashes and, historically, marriages were legally very difficult to escape. So you stayed in this iron clad marriage contract, mostly, only cheating a little around the edges. This inflammatory word "cheating" is one of their tools for controlling men. It is inherently an ugly term in the context of a relationship. There is nothing innocent about cheating on any kind of agreement, so it's a judgmental term to employ and not a good one to use to begin to diagnose a problem in a relationship.

There can be many different relationships between people. If you want to be in a committed adult romantic relationship, then sex outside of the relationship is a terrible idea. If you are committed friends and long standing roommates, then go for it. But if things are going well, romantic partners will want to be with each other to love one another and enjoy one another and care for one another. If that is not what is going on, you've got yourself a roommate.

That stated, home is extremely valuable. If my partner strayed on very rare occasion and is discreet about it, I won't know. And if I did find out, I would not destroy a home we had built together because of it. But it would be necessary to have some good long talks and find out where we both really are in the relationship. And some one off sex would be far less troubling than a regular fuck buddy or a lot of frequent fooling around. If that is happening, the relationship is in serious need of help.

Typical macho bullshit from Mr. Repressed Emotions, aka R146. Yes, men feel hurt when other men cheat on us. It hurts to be cheated on. It hurts to be lied to. It hurts even more to hear the excuses and rationalizations. It’s a form of abuse.

R144, why do you think a relationship is defined solely by monogamy?

This is partly why Hillary lost, you know.

Part of why it's not good for a relationship is because of the lies. Sure you might be honest with your partner and share your escapades, but it's going to hurt to hear your partner just had amazing hot sex with someone else. And great sex leaves a "moreish taste". As someone pointed out upthread, you develop feelings for someone who is giving you banging hot romps. Not always, but it's definitely a big risk. Also, I've known so many "open" couples that that's their whole life...3 ways, 4 ways...always orchestrating something at every gathering, party, ect. They lie to each other and they lie to their "prey".

It’s so true about the amazing sex. You don’t hook up with someone only once if the sex is amazing. You want more. And it does cause you to gain feelings toward them. I couldn’t stop thinking about this one guy who would literally blow my mind every time. I was infatuated to start but once I had him, I wanted him. He occupied my mind and I couldn’t turn it off.

It’s like our bodies would sync into one when we hooked up. It was something I never experienced prior.

My husband told me if I cheated on him he would cut my penis off. I construed that to mean it wasn’t OK for me to stray.

R151,

I’m in that situation now. The other guy also says it’s the best sex of his life. He knew from the beginning that I was in a LTR, but now he says he doesn’t care and wants to spend a lot of time with me. I told him he really shouldn’t waste his time with me, but he said he’s happy in this situation. I know it would be best to end it, but don’t know how to do that without hurting him. My relationship with my BF really is perfect- we love each other more than anything and have sex regularly. After I clean this up, I really want to talk to my BF about being monogamous. The thing is, my BF is much better about not getting emotionally attached than I am, so I don’t think he would understand why I want to change things.

Hurt him now, R153, or hurt him more when you do it later. You choose.

But don't be a coward about this. It's your mess. You made it. You have to fix it.

I think you’re correct, R154. I was just hoping he’d meet someone and be done with me. It’s been a few months already.

I wasn’t expecting this at all. My single friends are CONSTANTLY complaining that no one in NYC is looking for a relationship- everyone just wants to hook up. Pretty ironic I found the “one guy” who doesn’t feel this way.

Thanks for the advice.

You'll both be fine at the end of it. Move on. Move on. It is the way of the world.

Isn’t it odd that we want more of a relationship with people we only know from having great sex with?

It’s definitely happened to me, and each time it turned out the guy, who is a fabulous sex partner, is an asshole of sorts.

Good at sex doesn’t mean he’s a great person

R84 Open "relationships" are still just failed relationships. It's two people who don't want to be with each other - hence the fucking other people, but they're too scared to be alone. It's an insult to call open "relationships" relationships. It's just fuck buddies, nothing more.

"It's two people who don't want to be with each other"

Or it's two people with huge egos that need constant massaging. The "I am God's gift to humanity and I'm going to allow you to have sex" attitude is quite lame, especially when it's coming from some middle aged queen with a pot belly.

LOTS of BITTER OLD FAT QUEENS HERE

R153 Your "relationship" is doomed. It already was the day you opened it up. You and your roommate are just roommates that share a bed and fuck, and now you're putting the feelings of some trick above your "relationship". You'll be single in a few months.

How long have you been with your partner for, r161?

It’s sad how so many people don’t see the harms of inviting someone else into their beds.

R160 WELCOME to the club, Dearie!

R163 it's because they don't have anything special to begin with. To even contemplate an open relationship means you're relationship is pretty shit / you haven't found the right person

LTR is more about friendship and companionship. More a “friend with benefits” and less “regular fuck-buddy.” In the end, sex is not the be-all end-all of a relationship. You want to grow old with someone you love sharing your life with. You like doing things together, some of the same activities, and share a taste in music, movies, politics, religion, style. You enjoy sharing day trips and vacations and making memories together. You can make each other laugh. You trust each other with your lives. Look to friends for husband material, not your tricks.

Exactly R166

If you were 60 and realized the guy you've been with for 20 years is tiresome and annoys you, would you leave and make a new adventure or stay because it's safe?

^^^Neither. I'd kill myself when I realized I was so stupid that it'd taken me 20 years to figure out something as basic as that.

R169,. that happens every day. Duh.

Because many gay men are more sexually advanced than other gay men and straight women, and they realize that men are basically sexual beasts and variety is the spice of life. There are some straight women who understand that their husbands simply have to have some strange now and then to remain happy. As long as the men come home to them they're okay with the wandering. Some gay men feel the same. Sex for sex sake is very different than sex with love.

What choice do they realistically have? It's a given.

R171 Stop spouting that tired old crap. You are damaged and incapable of have a relationship because you're fucked up, not because you're a man.

Be quiet you silly bitch.

Nah r170. What happens is people ignore obvious issues because they are in lust or they are lonely want to be in a relationship. Then finally once all the luster wears off they realize how many problems they ignored because they didn't want to face the truth.

Like Maya Angelou said, when people show you who they are, believe them.

R170 Not, happily, to me, though. And I'm responding to a question that starts with "If you were 60 and realized the guy you've been with for 20 years is tiresome and annoys you..."

Fucking other people won't fix your busted relationship.

Because monogamy is not a natural state of being for many people. And men, unlike women, realize they can have sex and move on or move back to their male partners without having the world come to an end.

Sure R178 Have fun with that.

I agree with 158. If sex is so unimportant, then make your lives a lot easier & go have it with women. For me, I want the commitment, the trust, and the mutuality of marriage.

The monogamy open relationship issue never has the river straight coarse runneth.

R158 seems very bitter that some people have open relationships. Says way more about you than it does about relationships.

If you want to be open be open, if you want to be monogamous be monogamous. The people involved have to work out what works for them.

R182 Not bitter, just against double-speak. There is no such thing as an open "relationship", by all means have one but stop lying to yourself. If you're so proud of it then stop masquerading it as a relationship. You're fuck buddies.

Heh, yes you certainly are showing how much you don't care.

Maybe think about why other people's relationships that don't affect you gets you so triggered.

"and they realize that men are basically sexual beasts and variety is the spice of life."

As I said previously, this "hard wired" bullshit is exactly that. And it's a cop out for all other sorts of bad behavior.

R184 but they do affect me, because whenever people talk about them they bring out the whole "MEN AREN'T MEANT TO BE MONOGAMOUS LOLZ" shit. As I said, if that's what you do then own it and stop deflecting. If you were so proud of it, you wouldn't be using "MEN AREN'T BUILD FOR MONOGAMY" as a bullshit line to make yourself feel better.

Why is it perfectly fine for all other mammals to have sex with as many different partners as they want, but not the human mammal? Just because we have the benefit of language and, at least in a few cases, more advanced brains, doesn't mean we should be held to any higher sexual standards. If Mother Nature meant for all creatures to be sexually faithful to one at a time she would have made it that way for all creatures.

Basically what R185 said

R187 do you really want to extend that straw-man... Other mammals do it, so why shouldn't we? Jesus.

Some mammals eat their young.

And some mammals and birds are naturally monogamous.

I've never said that r186.

Some men want monogamy. Some men don't. Everyone should have the type of relationship which makes them happy.

It's pretty simple. I would agree that saying men can't do monogamy is as stupid as saying open relationships aren't real relationships.

Both sides should practice some common sense.

If monogamy is not natural for you then don’t enter into a 2-person sexual relationship of any kind. Just keep fucking about for your entire life. It’s simple. Save the rest of us the heartache.

Or, crazy thought here r192, they enter in a relationship with someone who views things the same way.

It's been my experience that the ones advocating open relationships are usually on the low end of the totem pole, looks/body wise. Face it, who wants a paunchy, middle-aged, balding, already attached guy when there are plenty of single guys around.

Getting some action on the side or having a side piece is so fucking trailer park trashy and worthy of an episode of Jerry Springer. If you want NSA, hook up with other desperate, attached NSAer's.

R194 for what purpose? Just have friends and fuck the everyone. What is a relationship than friendship and passion? If you need passion from everywhere else then just have friendships not relationships, no? And the odds that you will find someone with the same exact definition of “open” relationship as you are slim so why bother?

A friend is not a boyfriend, if you have had both you obviously realize that.

And the if the only definition of a boyfriend to you is that no one else can touch your penis that is such a small-minded view of what it means to build a life with someone.

I love how much open relationships trigger a couple of bitter old men on here, it is hysterical to see them post 5 or 6 replies in a row fuming and spewing that the only true relationships that exist are monogamous. It is bizarre how worked up they get over something which doesn't involve them.

OP most men have to cum.....any time, anywhere. Thye'd fuck the crack of dawn if they could. Better have him sated woth others and come back to you each time.

R197 but it’s almost never just as simple as someone touching your penis, is it? It’s the time invested in setting things up, the inevitable neglect that happens to the relationship because time and effort is exerted and in some cases the emotional release that comes with a side hook up. All these things can drain the relationship.

[quote]OP most men have to cum.....any time, anywhere.

*eyeroll*

If the guy is a sex-addict, I guess.

^^^r199, You may not feel exactly the same about sex as the decades roll by.

Just as I don't want Fundies or the government telling me that my partner and I being together is "evil", morally wrong or illegal, I'm not going to throw shade or judge others for what they do in their bedrooms.

If my current partner decides he one day wants more than what I can offer him, then he does. FFS, I'll live. I love him but I'll live. I will find someone else or I won't, but I will be ok.

So will all of you, DL.

Yes R190, and some humans kill their young, and do far more heinous things to them such as years of torture, starvation, physical and sexual abuse. Humans should hardly be held to a higher standard.

Most gay men I've known who were okay with their partner playing around was because they both played around with others, sometimes together.

^^^ Maybe they’ll someday age out of that need.

LOL at all those claiming to be totally cool with their partner fucking around, but 'I just don't want to know about it'. If you were that fine with it, actually knowing details wouldn't be an issue. You're PRETENDING to be fine with it, even to yourself.

It's sad watching the current crop of homos trying their best to be just like suburban married straight couples. Next thing you know all the homos will start taking their little turkey baster babies to church every Sunday

Well, I hope to start a trend, R208!

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

I hate the gay couples that both want to have fun but often haven’t really processed it so one or the other gets pissy during or after sex. Or they go together to gay events, clubs, resorts, bathhouses, etc and have all these ridiculously detailed rules between them about how they and the other partner can hook up. It’s like all this unspoken negotiation to make sure no one gets mad. Exhausting.

Get over it R208 not all gay men want to fuck strangers for the thrill.

Fine R212, but just so long as you know no matter how much you try to make yourself look mainstream most of the straights you're trying to emulate will still think of you as nothing more than a fag pervert child molester. So keep on trying to be as much like them as possible.

I think it’s fine if you want to be married with 3 kids. What’s tiring is the virtue signaling to all those who don’t embrace that lifestyle—that somehow you are more evolved because you only having sex with one person and have kids. Plus, many of us know couples like this, yet discover it’s all bullshit and they are either cheating or engaged in occasional three ways at home or on vacation.

I'm not trying to "look mainstream" R213 I'm just tired of other gay guys calling me a hetero wannabe just because I'm not acting like they think I should.

As someone who seems to be hardwire for monogamy, I must say, it lights a fire under me when one of my slutty friends shows up with his guy of the week who think they are going to have a faithful relationship, when my friend is already shopping around for Mr. Next Right.

I've said this before on DL. My own theory is that gay men divide into three types, roughly in 33 1/3 percentages . There is type A, who recognizes that he is essentially not cut out for monogamy and is fully comfortable with his own promiscuity. There is type B, who is only comfortable with sex inside a monogamous relationship, because he feels vulnerable having sex with a stranger and can only give himself completely to a monogamous partner the he feels he loves. And there is type C, who has internalized a message that sexual relationships are supposed to be monogamous and only with a person you're in love with, but he is not inclined to stay with the same person indefinitely, so every month, 3 months, or 6 months, he conveniently falls out of love with his current partner and falls in love with another partner.

An A can always fuck with another A, no harm no foul. A B will always look for another B. The danger in the gay world is when a B hooks up with a C as a partner. Because B feels that this is for keeps, and C says all the right things - but C is not really self-honest, so he ends up breaking the hearts of a lot of Bs over his lifetime.

[quote]somehow you are more evolved because you only having sex with one person

Higher intelligence is associated with liberal political ideology, atheism, and men's (but not women's) preference for sexual exclusivity. More intelligent people are statistically more likely to exhibit social values and religious and political preferences that are novel to human evolution. Specifically, liberalism and atheism, and for men (but not women), preference for sexual exclusivity correlate with higher intelligence.

^^This study suggest that more intelligent people are more likely than less intelligent people to adopt evolutionarily novel preferences and values -- like male monogamy.

I love all the guys who threaten to physically hurt someone if they cheated on them. You're a keeper!

The aspect of this that has not been extensively discussed in this thread is loneliness. Loneliness is a horrible thing and it seems valuable to avoid it. If two men can make a home together, one that is intended to be stable and long-lasting, does it have to be predicated on sexual exclusivity?

Mixing a stable home with romance is the problem. It has long been the practice of the aristocracy to establish a family that is central to their lives and their place in the world. Their affairs they keep discreet. On the side and quiet. Show your respect for your partner and your home with your discretion.

The problem is middle class morality and middle class romantic notions of Loooooove. That's all about controlling the masses. And some men don't want to be controlled by external forces. If that's you, at least control yourself and your own actions with a bit of sensitivity and discretion.

Let me just throw a hypothetical out there: Say you're a top, and after a certain number of years, your long-term monogamous partner tells you he can no longer bottom, whether due to a medical or other reason. So, since I only have two options according to some of you:

A) Accept that I'm never going to be sexually satisfied again, due to a unilateral decision (or a necessity, in terms of a health problem.

B) Throw away any good non-sexual things that my long-term partner and I have built because it's apparently selfish and immature of me to seek sexual satisfaction elsewhere, even if my long-term partner gives me his blessing.

That about cover it?

I would never want a potentially violent partner either, R220. People like that are losers.

Threatening harm if I cheat? What if he considers a friendly conversation 'too flirty' or a friendship 'too close'? What if I want to break-up or divorce him? Move on and date someone new? More threats? Stalking? Violence? Most likely.

No matter your status as a couple or time spent together, no one owns another human being or owes them. Relationships aren't slavery unless you've signed one of the BDSM contracts. You stay sexually exclusive to AND with a person out of choice, not threats and fear.

My partner and I are monogamous and trust that we'll stay that way. We've both been cheated on and know it sucks. We also truly love each other. I don't care if you have an open relationship - that's great if it works for you. A lot of open couples think we're unrealistic in our expectations, but whatever. I know a few open relationships, and what appears common is one partner is more 'active' and the other is, basically, a doormat. I'd rather be single than be someone's doormat.

Me and my bf have been together for nine years, and we are monogamous. Sure, we look around, we flirt, but ultimately we love each other and would never consider opening up the relationship. We love each other too much for that. I think the issue with many gay couples is that what draws them together at first is the sex. That's all they have in common, and when that inevitably gets stale, they turn out of the relationship for new sexual adventures. When everything is about sex, it's all very hollow. My bf and me have so much more than sex in common. We share several hobbies and are very close with our families. And as we are both religious, we attend church together every Sunday and share certain family values. The church also provides us with a certain moral center than many gay men are lacking. All in all, we are committed and monogamous because we know that great sex is not enough to keep a relationship solid, and this is where many gay men stumble.

I think the key to any successful relationship, gay, straight or whatever, is, as R225 points out, something shared OUTSIDE of the relationship. Hobbies and shared activities are key to this success. And I don't mean like going to the movies, or eating out or traveling (who the hell doesn't like those things).

The happiest, most successful relationship I know of is the couple who both enjoy polka dancing, and travel around the country attending polka contests/dances. Its their shared activity.

And I can hear them fighting about which matching sets of lederhosen to wear to the Saturday night polka dinner dance.

Like many commentors have said.....sex is just sex. Men realize by fuckimg someone else doesn't mean anything except that you are horny and want to get off. It is nothing about love or emotion. Women don't get that. As long as both partners stay protected and open to what they are doing, I think it works great....it does for me!

[quote] I'm just tired of other gay guys calling me a hetero wannabe just because I'm not acting like they think I should.

if that was your only issue I would have no problem with you. But no, you go much farther. You accuse anyone who states their own opinion of being "damaged and incapable of have a relationship because you're fucked up, not because you're a man".

No one gives a fat rat's ass how you act. Comport your life any way you wish, but don't assume anyone who doesn't want the same things you want is damaged. Name calling isn't pretty, or nice.

If both in the relationship REALLY are ok with it being open. That's one thing. As mentioned, I also don't think both people are truly ok with open relationships. They either accept it for fear of losing their partner or are a bit of a doormat. I think that gay men are more prone to dangerous sexual behavior. I don't like the idea of my partner going off and fucking some cum dump or eating someone's ass and then expecting to come home and be intimate with me.

Yeah, when your husband deep tongue kisses you, you sort of want to know where else that tongue has been in the past year.

I remember a great aunt of mine telling someone "Men are simple creatures, Honey. Keep their bellies full and their balls empty and they wont give you any trouble". I was just an eavesdropping little gayling but I took her advice to heart .Ive always fed and fucked my men whenever they wanted and mostly they gave me no trouble,so it works!

Must you be so crass, r232?

What the hell is 'be safe' anyway? About as useless as 'get lucky' or 'god bless'.

R233 Hey, the great aunt was crass first.

Because we aren't insecure self loathing and self centered bitches with abandonment issues.

Plus monogamy is not natural but a moral imposition from the 17th century it's true to gays as it is to non gays. Everyone cheats for a reason.

Monogamy is a very practical practice that, when practiced faithfully, provides 100% protection from sexually transmitted disease that can be disfiguring or even fatal. Don't leave that part out, R236, or it makes you look just plain silly.

Don't feed the troll R237

Because they have no choice. Gay men cheat. This has been the subject of at least three studies from the 80s to the early 00s.

They couldn't finish them because not one of the participants was in a committed monogamous relationship for the three years required. They didn't even make it half way.

Gay relationships are not like marriages, but rather like roommates "with benefits." Gay men hate to hear that, but it is how it is. As the Ghost of Christmas Past said, "These are shadows of things that have been. They are what they are, if they're not to your liking, don't blame me"

R50, we are on the same page. If you want sex with other people then you don't want me. I'm not going to sit by and inherit HIV or STIs just so I don't lose my partner.

..... yet here's the thing: I respect the concept of open honest marriages and reject the idea of enforced monogamy. I'd like to think that there can be a strong fulfilling romantic bond between two people even after they've had multiple other partners during the marriage...but there are so many ways it can go south. If one spouse gets really into sex with their latest fling and wants to marry them instead, or if the couple get bitter about how their marriage required all these other participants and they just stay together to save face but know the intimacy died out because if their open door policy....

And for gay guys there is the expectation of being counter culture and free to get freaky....the community has few examples of rewarding successful monogomy to follow, so why not play around? It's the norm, right? Why be all pathetic and "committed" and miss out?

If gay people were given the message as loudly and clearly as the straight people that monogomy is sacred and beautiful and will give you your best life and partnership experience, they'd believe it.

Believing in monogomy is the key. Our minds are more powerful than our libidos, believe it or not.....

Hi R229 This is the "I'm just tired of other gay guys calling me a hetero wannabe just because I'm not acting like they think I should" guy and I'm just writing to let you know that while I may ever so slightly agree with the other opinions you quoted I did not actually write them. Thanks

R225, you had me until:

"The church also provides us with a certain moral center than many gay men are lacking"

Dude, you build your own moral center for yourself same as anyone. Nobody gift wraps one for you. And the church's roundabout way of cherry picking which aspects of which verse are somehow still applicable to modern day situations is ridiculous. I'm not trying to crap on your religion here, because I think having faith is a good thing, but the way you said what you just said pisses me off to no end. Just because you go to church with your partner doesn't mean you're somehow more "morally grounded", and it doesn't mean that for any of those other people in that church either. Have you noticed the looks being exchanged between the married people in those pews? There's plenty of flirting going on, to say nothing of whatever thoughts go dancing through the mind of the minister when he looks at the altar boys. Spending one hour a week with a bunch of other people from your community, communally daydreaming while some guy rambles on in front of a microphone about crap that probably didn't even happen from over a thousand years ago somehow means that you know right from wrong? Bitch please.

What gay men really need are families who love them unconditionally, and the healthy self-esteem that comes from that unconditional love and acceptance. They also need to be visible within their own communities and have role models to look up to so that they don't feel like they represent 5% of the population, and spend their lives scurrying around in the shadows and trying to cover their tracks because they feel alone. They need to stop worrying about measuring up fitting in. I need to stop being scapegoated by those around them, or betrayed by law enforcement and the legal system.

They don't need to hear about how Jesus made fishes magically appear in baskets....

Typos a plenty...meant to write:

"They need to stop worrying about measuring up and fitting in. They need to stop being scapegoated by those around them, or betrayed by law enforcement and the legal system."

SLUTS o FUN

Best post ever, R242.

Bless you.

Thank you!

[quote]Typos a plenty...meant to write:

When you’re passionate about something and your mind is racing 100mph about what you want to say while you’re typing, it’s bound to happen. No harm, no foul.

Yes, the church does give you a moral center. When you practice a faith, you're much more likely to have traditional values and exhibit a modicum of self-restraint. Of course church goers have impulses and temptations, but are much less likely to act upon these desires than those without faith. Studies have shown that people who practice their faith tend to be happier and more fulfilled in life, and happier and more fulfilled people tend to be monogamous.

Do you tithe, r247?

r247 Sadly for your argument, statistics don't bear it out AT ALL! The highest divorce rate is for conservative Christians and the lowest for ATHEISTS, according to this survey by BARNA.

I think age plays a part. Perhaps youth is for fucking around and at a later stage in life, it’s time to settle with one person because energy wanes, time is constrained and fucking indiscriminately gets stale.

I settled down, monogamously at 30 after fucking my brains out for the previous 15 years. Yes, I was a child slut. I didn't plan to, but when someone you want comes along and that's what they want (didn't hurt that it was 1981 and HIV had just arrived) you can change your mind. I did. And I haven't changed it back.

I'm not religious so any moral center I have doesn't come from faith but rather reason. I've come to realize that I couldn't have made it through the '80's and '90's alone - I'd have died a long time ago - let alone accomplish what I personally and we together have achieved. You can do a lot more when someone has your back, someone you can trust will be there, someone who wasn't going fall in lust with the trick of the week, and someone who values you as much as you value them.

I have no desire to trash anyone else's choices, only to say that while here it sounds like it might be rare, longtime gay relationships can and do work if it's what both partners want.

I’m honestly sad that gay people like R225 exist. Religion was (and still is) a horrible factor in the lives of most of the gay people I know, and now we’ve “come so far” that we have R225s now, “churchy” gays who act just like any other self-consciously “pious” and judgmental conservative Christian, judging everyone else’s lives, holding themselves up as paragons of shining virtue, and reaching for their smelling salts over someone else’s “crass” language.

Fuck off and die, you pompous, insufferable, fairy-tale-believing moron. I’ll take a million gay sluts and cynics over a self-righteous gay “Christian” any day.

Is it easier to be monogamous when you're average to below average in the looks department?

"Traditional values." You just gave yourself away for the smug, unctuous, tight-ass you are R225. You don't have a rich spiritual life. You have conformity and obedience and an entitled superiority that's been spoon-fed to you by a preacher and the others in your group.

I feel sorry for you.

Don't feel sorry for me, r254. I have an incredibly fulfilling life with the man I love. I feel totally blessed. Hardly anything to feel sorry about. And with your palpable bitterness and resentment, I'M the one you feel sorry for?!?! Where is it written that, once we come out of the closet, we must cede all our hopes and dreams and disband with the, yes, "traditional values" with which we were raised and dedicate our lives to sexual depravity and hedonism? I am living the same amazing, morally grounded life I would've lived had I turned out straight. If you find that boring and conformist, so be it. I for one am very blessed to have found a wonderful man who shares my values and to be part of the gay community, and, yes, my church community.

R255 Oh sweetie,you really dont get it ,do you ? To most of your straight christian brethren you're a faggot,period. And were the time to come there was an open season on gay people,those same "loving" christians would be the first ones to drag you and your husband out of your home and off to a camp ,or the nearest tree. Your head would spin if you heard what most of them really thought of you.

The wedding party dance at the reception will be a faithful re-creation of this performance.

The “tragedy” is all slutty still-single gay men who refuse to accept marriage and monogamy as the only legitimate way to live.

Whores. So many whores.

R255, Stockholm syndrome much?

R255, you still didn’t answer the question at r248.

I'm not religious but I do believe in self control.

R247 being a faithful person doesn't necessarily mean you have "traditional values." Jesus didn't espouse traditional values especially the whole family values crap that the homophobes chatter on about.

It's rather funny but, contrary to OP's assertion, I actually know more (admittedly, self-proclaimed) monogamous gay couples than ones with an open-relationship. While I'm currently single, my past long-term relationships have been monogamous as well. I was out with a few friends in relationships of various stages a few weeks ago and this exact topic came up in conversation; one of the common themes mentioned by all was that even if any of us were to "open" up our relationships, the actual process of getting together with another person would be too much of a hassle for what it would ultimately be worth. Even as the single guy who's consistently hassled for stories of slutty encounters from my partnered friends, I really can't tell them anything because I really don't have the time or I do have the time but I can't muster the energy or be adequately enticed. Admittedly, we all sorta whored it up in our 20s so casual encounters no longer have the allure they once did, but the idea of getting it on with another hot dude is certainly something that's in the back of all our heads. But at the end of the day, it's usually just too much time, energy, work, whatever to really put into play. I recall meeting up with this gay couple back when I was in my 20s and they aways had the same problem. It was either too late, someone had to work early the next day, the bottom wasn't prepared, the top had his friend over, someone was working late, whatever. When it did work out, it was great, but it really was much harder to put into action than what has been suggested here.

R263 This. It’s a lot of effort especially if your life is busy and you already enjoyed a slutty life that was fulfilling at a younger age. To be older and still chasing new dick while you have one at home of someone you have chosen as the one is just misplaced priorities.

Honestly it’s sometimes easier just to go to a sex club for a couple hours and call it a day. Everyone is there for the same reason and there’s a place to do it without getting arrested.

Unfortunately these days dating/hooking up has become such a hassle, with most people preferring to spend endless hours on app waiting for a porn model to show up. Between that and every sexual scenario known to man available on demand via porn, guys have become lazy and jaded. Most guys aren’t motivated to put the time and effort into one person, because there are always ten possibly “better” options online.

R264 I think that's one of the things that I find so incredibly strange with the concept of open relationships. In a way, it's an over-prioritization of sex which, for most couples I know and for me as well, is just not really a major priority. It's not that it's unimportant, but rather it's just not in the top however many things most couples I know need. I know a small amount couples who (openly) have open relationships, but according to them they rarely do anything with other people for the reason mentioned in R263. Quite frankly, I'd be concerned about my partner approaching me about the topic, not so much because of the "cheating" (not the right word I know) aspect but rather because it would concern me that he was so sex-focused. My first thought would be "you need more to do."

^^^ Idle hands are the Devil’s workshop.

Yup. R267 is a hungry fist bottom.

My husband and I have been together for 33 years. Neither of us have cheated nor will we ever cheat. And yes, I refer to it as "cheating", because to us, sex outside of our relationship is not part of the agreement. We agreed to "for better or worse", and allowing for either or both of us to sleep around would have allowed for the real danger that, during a "for worse" period, one of those on-the-side flings would have seemed like a better deal than staying and working through the bad times. Knowing that I have a partner who will be by my side no matter what is not worth jeopardizing for sex with someone else.

R269, call me!

The root of all evil is the belief there is one belief system. I have friends in very successful monogamous relationships and friends in very successful open relationships. Either can work. We should respect our abilities to choose what works for us and not shove one or the other option down the others throat.

R269, you must keep your husband on a terribly short leash if you "know" that he has never slipped up around the topic of monogamy.

And if you have such a great thing going, why are you so smug about it? If it was working so well, wouldn't you be nicer? Wouldn't you be kinder with others? It should make you more generous and understanding, but it doesn't seem to have done so.

And "for better or for worse" really must have a bigger meaning than that the poor shlub is forever stuck having sex with you. Your comment reduces an epic and solemn promise to a punishment.

R271 actually sounds normal and reasonable.

When did all the church ladies arrive at Datalounge? Live and let live. Stop trying to be like our enemies.

By "church ladies," r273 must mean "well-adjusted gay men who aren't Peter Pans". I posted above and I, like r269, have been in a committed, monogamous relationship for a number of years. I realize that people like you find people like r269 and myself dull and conformist, but we are the happy ones. I suppose you get some fleeting satisfaction from your whorish ways, but it's ultimately not fulfilling because there's no emotional connection to your succession of little tricks, is there?. Real love and commitment entails having respect for your partner and sharing interests beyond satisfying your libido. My bf and I are actively involved with our church and enjoy hobbies in common. The church gives us a moral center and instructs how to live one's life with virtue and dignity. I think more gay men should take to religion. They certainly would come to realize that there is more to life than endless soul-depleting sexual escapades with strangers you procured off an app.

My experience is that the only truly monogamous gay people are:

-Ugly people who had never slept around even when they were single. One poster above said he had mind blowing sex w a stranger while in an open relationships and that he couldn’t forget the stranger. He said this as a reason he no longer believes in open relationships. Well, if you’re attractive and good at sex, you’re not gonna get hung up on a hot one night stand... -Religious boring self loathing people who think belonging to a church means they one of the good boys. These people would most likely be republicans supporting Trump if they weren’t gay. They’re the types who think cops wouldn’t shoot innocent black people if black people learned some manners! These guys usually become cheaters later on. Self righteous fags taking their daddy issues out on God always end up becoming huge sex freaks. Ex:any anti gay republican politician...

Also, gays who complain about not being able to find a relationship in urban cities are the most self sabotaging people out there. If you’re in NYC and can’t get a BF... well that says more about you than NYC.

Growing up gay I never thought I’d have a normal relationship, so I rejected relationships before they rejected me. With that said, it was almost impossible not to be in a relationship, and I ended up having four serious relationships that lasted 12-15 months before my mid 30s. They were all monogamous and they all ended over other issues (never lack of Sex, never cheating). While I was monogamous in those relationships, none of them lasted over a year and a half, and I suspected I would’ve started straying had they lasted years and years.

By my mid 30s, I meet my fifth relationship. Neither of us take it seriously at first but it grows and grows. We both have had only monogamous relationships but we both admit had those relationships lasted over 2 years, we would’ve strayed. So we officially become a couple and choose to be monogamous during the honeymoon period (a year according to both of us) and then open it up after.

A year and a half passes by and we open it up and agree that we don’t have to talk about it (as of now neither of us like the idea of threesomes). At the two year mark, I have a work trip and end up having a weekend romance with a stranger I meet while away. It was very intense and actually romantic, but I develop zero romantic feelings. My BF has stepped out too and it doesn’t bother me either since it’s so rare and low key.

While we are open, the idea of sleeping around is ridiculous and I think only people without careers think people in open relationships sleep around all the time. We are both too freaking busy with demanding jobs we love to be actively looking. We don’t do apps, or have any sceney gay friends so that keeps the drama out of our lives as well. With that said, I’m a hung top and my bf is stereotypically hot, so we still get hit on a lot.

As for our relationship, we never argue over sex or jealousy. We argue over lame every day stuff. We cuddle to sleep every night, make each other laugh all the time, and we are very affectionate. If those things weren’t true, then no amount of openness would be enough to stay. Both of our careers have really taken off in the past year, and finally having a great job I love consumes most of my free time. Same with my partner.

The idea that one person is supposed to satisfy my every desire and need sounds psychotic to me. I’m willing to guess these super pro monogamous fools are also extremely jealous of their significant others friendships. I have one friend who very religious partner gets upset even when my friend hangs out with females. My friend is a gay man btw.

R275, do you realize how angry you sound?

And this - " We are both too freaking busy with demanding jobs," yet not too busy to write one of the longest posts in DL history.

According to r275, only ugly people are monogamous? LOL. Do you hold the same standard to straight people? Do only the hot ones cheat? And your statement "The idea that one person is supposed to satisfy my every desire and need sounds psychotic to me" tells me all I need to know about you. You eroticize everything, don't you? Everything comes down to sex and satisfying your base sexual needs. Nothing is more important to you than achieving orgasm, is it? Quite the catch you are.

Is R275 some kind of parody post? It certainly reads like one.

R278 Your cunting needs work, not understanding what parody means just makes you look stupid.

R275, sounds like your relationship is already dead and he's going to leave you like the others did because, well, you're a douche.

Unless that whole thing was a joke.

Reading this thread makes me not want to even bother.

LOL@ R281...sometimes I need to take a break from this board before it makes me feel so despondent about relationships that I never leave my house again.

R281 just remember that all of these posts are opinion and not the Word of God from high no matter how much they blather on.

Marriage is what you make it. This thread is just pointing out common bullshit amongst married gays. It doesn’t mean you are doomed to repeat it.

It really depends but boils down to dealing with two men, who can talk about it without inherent biological hang ups.

R275 seems like such a dreamboat, I can't imagine why his five previous "relationships" didn't work out.

r285, that's a cop out. I'm sick of hearing that two men can't share the same type of emotional bond and be monogamous like a man and woman. That's utter bullshit. Open relationships are simply the result of the inability to grow up, nothing more, nothing less. The community gives a pass because of the phony biological thing. Grow the hell up and commit to one person, both emotionally and physically.

My bf said he had a dream that I was cheating and he was knifing me as revenge.

Thank god it was only a dream because I am cheating in him

[quote] I'm sick of hearing that two men can't share the same type of emotional bond and be monogamous like a man and woman.

Men and women aren't being monogamous either

r289, that's a falsehood. They are monogamous for the most part, and surely relative to gay men they are. Most gay men cannot be trusted to keep it in their pants.

Most people are monogamous. I know my mom is. I know my dad is to his second wife. He would never cheat and I KNOW IT.

If Maury, Jerry Springer and the "Cheaters" TV show are any indication, there's a significant minority of straight people fucking around on each other.

r292, those are all fake. No, they're not actors, but they concoct these stupid scenarios in order to get onto the show. I thought everyone knew that.

[quote] that's a falsehood. They are monogamous for the most part, and surely relative to gay men they are.

50% of married men AND women cheat per the research. Do we have any data as to how many gay married men cheat? You're only assuming gays cheat more.

[quote] Most people are monogamous. I know my mom is. I know my dad is to his second wife. He would never cheat and I KNOW IT.

Yeah, sure you do

[quote]50% of married men AND women cheat per the research.

Culling data from nine years of the General Social Survey, University of Colorado researchers found that about 21 percent of men and 13 percent of women reported infidelity at some point in their lifetime and that this gender difference has been consistent from 2000 to 2016.

r52 Do you know what percentage of gay males or gay couples now have kids and has it increased significantly from say 20-30 years ago. I know we hear a lot about them in the media but anecdotally anyway most of my gay friends do not have and do not want children. I'm 40 but with friends across the age spectrum.

Trust No one!!!

Very cynical r298

Many gays are looking for a partner who is younger and more attractive than he is. So when he scores one, he'll accept cheating to keep the hot young partner around.

Yet logical R299 especially when dealing with gay men.

But your statement is not correct, R298. It's not safer that way.

Your method unnecessarily cuts you off from the very best humans have to offer. Trust in the people close to you is important. The benefits are huge. Losing out on them is tragic.

You may choose to cut yourself off from them, but you cannot do it successfully. Your method is inherently a failure and you are the one harmed by this misguided attempt at self-protection.

Lots of homophobes on this thread. Spewing opinion as if it were fact.

Because they have to be because they'll get dumped and they fear being alone more than being demeaned.

[quote]Many gays are looking for a partner who is younger and more attractive than he is. So when he scores one, he'll accept cheating to keep the hot young partner around

Do you think DL fave Scott Gardner's husband lets him cheat?

Gay men can't be trusted to be faithful. Cheating is beyond their control. Compulsive sex addicts, if my opinion counts for anything.

It does not, R307.

Next!

Remember, for us more than most, if someone wants to have sex with you, you are worth something. So to cut yourself off from that validation is something most people's self esteem won't allow them to do.

It seems that the only way for gay men to feel validated is through sex. However, the validation is fleeting and they need constant reassurance that they're ok, thus the endless, meaningless hookups, which of course leads to disease and death. It's very sad to think that a mental issue is responsible for so much physical suffering.

It seems that way to you R310

Doesn't make it true

I know a lot of really good looking guys in NYC who will have sex with anyone. No sense of taste.

R312 That's what I've heard about gay Millennials.

Do you think Ricky Martin steps out on the artist? That's seems to be his history .

Isn't Ricky known to be a huge cheating skank?

I'm in the UK so don't hear much on Ricky... But George michael was a huge cruiser... And made a televised interview to say so... Relationship boundaries should be determined by those in it EQUALLY not by those who place judgement based on "their own" beliefs or values.... For and against opinions be it monogamy, religion or anything else are the only 2 things in life that will remain indefinitely no matter 2019 or 2999 because both are right for each individual making their opinion.

Maybe physical intimacy diminishes over time, and emotional intimacy replaces it.

It’s trashy

R153, if you come back here, why do you and your bf seek sex outside your r'ship, if it is perfect as you say?