"Fosse/Verdon" Series Premiere, 4/9/19: "Life is a Cabaret"
|by Anonymous||reply 601||Last Sunday at 2:03 PM|
|by Anonymous||reply 1||04/09/2019|
|by Anonymous||reply 2||04/09/2019|
Ugh the wig on Michelle is awful.
|by Anonymous||reply 3||04/09/2019|
She does sort of look like Gwen Verdon though.
|by Anonymous||reply 4||04/09/2019|
She's prettier than Gwen. Gwen would never have been cast to play herself.
On stage she was a star, in front of a camera she wasn't. Just like Haney.
|by Anonymous||reply 5||04/09/2019|
Who's playing Liza?
|by Anonymous||reply 6||04/09/2019|
Kelli Barrett, r2.
|by Anonymous||reply 7||04/09/2019|
Año hone know if I can stream it anywhere? I don’t get F/X.
|by Anonymous||reply 8||04/09/2019|
[quote]Ugh the wig on Michelle is awful.
|by Anonymous||reply 9||04/09/2019|
They are playing around with the time but it seemed they were talking about "Sweet Charity" and Gwen said she and Nicole went past The Ziegfeld and there was a line but "Cabaret" played but Charity played The Rivoli on Broadway.
|by Anonymous||reply 10||04/09/2019|
r10, maybe you want to rethink that sentence? It doesn't make sense.
|by Anonymous||reply 11||04/09/2019|
sorry... Cabaret played The Ziegfeld and Charity played The Rivoli.
|by Anonymous||reply 12||04/09/2019|
It's deeply important you get it right!
|by Anonymous||reply 13||04/09/2019|
If not for the voice, I would have never guessed that was Paul Reiser playing Fosses agent, Cy.
|by Anonymous||reply 14||04/09/2019|
It's an odd decision to have so many Broadway stars playing the parts when (since they got Rockwell and Williams to do the series) they probably could have had actual names most everyone other than Broadway queens would recognize.
I'm glad they are giving these good Broadway actors some work, though.
|by Anonymous||reply 15||04/09/2019|
I was so bored. Sam Rockwell is so flat and dull as Fosse. How do you make Fosse boring?
This makes me appreciate All That Jazz and Roy Scheider that much more. He really captured the layers of Fosse and why people were drawn to him.
|by Anonymous||reply 16||04/09/2019|
It's hard to think who the audience for Murphy shows is other than gay people and their admirers, but in an era of niche programming, probably gay people and their admirers is enough of an audience. Especially when its going to be a more upscale demographic among them than Bravo gets.
|by Anonymous||reply 17||04/09/2019|
Its not a Murphy production. Lin Manuel Miranda is one of the executive producers....its a Fox 21 television production.
|by Anonymous||reply 18||04/09/2019|
. I think the problem is Sam Rockwell. He's an excellent character actor but lacks the charisma needed to play this part. The relationship between Fosse and Verdon isn't that interesting. She put up with his crap. That's it.
I'm trying to think who should have played Fosse... Jude Law, Ben Affleck, , somebody with more sex appeal than Rockwell for sure.
|by Anonymous||reply 19||04/09/2019|
And Aya Cash looked like she was acting in some high school production. Terrible.
|by Anonymous||reply 20||04/09/2019|
What's the countdown to - his death?
I saw Dancin' in Chicago years ago, maybe around 1979. Such fun.
|by Anonymous||reply 21||04/09/2019|
Ben Affleck would be too tall and too fat, and I don't think either he or Jude Law can dance well enough.
|by Anonymous||reply 22||04/09/2019|
R19 Maybe some man who can dance?
|by Anonymous||reply 23||04/09/2019|
Another problem Rockwell has, I believe, is Roy Scheider's presence is still deeply felt with any Fosse fan. You'd have never thought it before ATJ came out, but Scheider turned out to be brilliant casting. He wasn't a dancer, but he had that middle-aged sinewy body and was really able to sell it. And he wasn't particularly good looking, but dammit, he was sexy. But only in that movie!
And to think, originally it was supposed to be Richard Dreyfuss. That would have been awful!
|by Anonymous||reply 24||04/09/2019|
**another fun fact about 1979's All That Jazz. Fosse's first choice before Dreyfuss? It was Paul Newman!
|by Anonymous||reply 25||04/09/2019|
[quote] Another problem Rockwell has, I believe, is Roy Scheider's presence is still deeply felt with any Fosse fan.
It's nice they appointed you to speak for all of them.
|by Anonymous||reply 26||04/09/2019|
I thought Scheider was hot in Marathon Man too. I didn't know Newman had been considered for All That Jazz. I can't picture it.
|by Anonymous||reply 27||04/09/2019|
Well, he is kinda right r26. Scheider's performance is iconic, brilliant and truly captured Fosse's spirit and style.
Rockwell is dour, charmless and unsexy in this role.
|by Anonymous||reply 28||04/09/2019|
This is a horrible show. Only Broadway queens will like it.
|by Anonymous||reply 29||04/09/2019|
R26 I know, huh???
|by Anonymous||reply 30||04/09/2019|
Does Michelle do the Verdon voice?
|by Anonymous||reply 31||04/09/2019|
"I didn't know Newman had been considered for All That Jazz."
It was very early on. It might have been mentioned in the IMDB trivia section among other places. It might have been more about Fosse's fantasy to have the most beautiful man in Cinema history play him.
|by Anonymous||reply 32||04/09/2019|
Hated the theatrical flashbacks inserted into the scenes (keep that technique in the theater please) but loved everything else.
Williams sounds exactly like Verdon. She’s doing a great job.
And executive producer Nicole Fosse made sure there was plenty of her in it. A little too much. Her bits are meh.
|by Anonymous||reply 33||04/09/2019|
Honestly, I just want to see Liza. Fosse’s art interests me, his personality doesn’t.
|by Anonymous||reply 34||04/09/2019|
I'm halfway thru, really, I think I'd rather be watching All That Jazz for the 20th time, (except for Michelle Williams).
|by Anonymous||reply 35||04/09/2019|
Yeah, Michelle is fine. The rest, meh.
|by Anonymous||reply 36||04/09/2019|
"Yes. I turned down 'All That Jazz,' which was a great mistake. I didn't think the character [which won Ray Scheider an Oscar nomination last year] was redeemable. And, of course, I didn't take Bob Fosse [the director] into consideration. It was a dumb, dumb mistake!"
|by Anonymous||reply 37||04/09/2019|
Ugh. The Liza stuff was just awful.
|by Anonymous||reply 38||04/09/2019|
I actually liked the Liza they got.
|by Anonymous||reply 39||04/09/2019|
^I did too.
|by Anonymous||reply 40||04/09/2019|
It's a weird show. That's not much drama to it except for the countdown to Fosse's death, and it's hard to care about that all that much since he seems to pop off as it is at any minute (even though it's 19-15 years away in this episode). It's not like "Feud," where they had the constant battle of wills between the two main women to keep the dramatic interest going.
I'll keep watching because I love the period and the atmospheric recreations, and I think Broadway queens will watch it for the same reason. But they didn't find much of a way for other people to care about it. I will bet it's a ratings flop.
|by Anonymous||reply 41||04/09/2019|
R37 Wow. Thanks for finding and posting that. It would have been a very different movie.
It's funny. The movie alludes to the fact that a lot of the women who sleep with Fosse do so hoping to get a part in one of his musicals; something Fosse himself believed and used to his advantage. But if Newman had played the role, hell, they'd have slept with him because he looked like Paul Newman!! haha
|by Anonymous||reply 42||04/09/2019|
I also feel like it's trying to make us feel sorry for the young Bobby, and I don't much. (That was a problem with the movie, too.) All young dancers have to work hard, and are exposed to sex very early.
|by Anonymous||reply 43||04/09/2019|
I love it. Fosse/Verdon is fascinating. I haven't been this transfixed since Feud/Davis-Crawford.
|by Anonymous||reply 44||04/09/2019|
[quote]If not for the voice, I would have never guessed that was Paul Reiser playing Fosses agent, Cy.
Cy isn't Fosse's agent. He's Cy Feuer, who produced the film "Cabaret."
|by Anonymous||reply 45||04/09/2019|
Who's Bob Fosse & Gwen Verdon?
|by Anonymous||reply 46||04/09/2019|
The Liza performer did a great job mimicking her voice and affect and gestures, but was much prettier than Liza.
The Shirley McLaine actress looked nothing like Shirley, which was weird since that's all she had to do..
Michelle Williams did a fantastic job evoking Gwen Verdon both physically and vocally..
|by Anonymous||reply 47||04/09/2019|
There’s only one Liza Minnelli, which the recreations make abundantly clear.
|by Anonymous||reply 48||04/09/2019|
Well, then why complain?
|by Anonymous||reply 49||04/09/2019|
[quote] Who's Bob Fosse & Gwen Verdon? —Mrs. Jay-Z
Oh you remember, honey: the choreographer and his wife from whom you stole your moves for the "Single Ladies" video.
|by Anonymous||reply 50||04/09/2019|
R50, Bey didn't just steal Fosse and Verdon's moves for "Single Ladies," her whole "Get Me Bodied" video is an homage to "Sweet Charity."
|by Anonymous||reply 51||04/09/2019|
I'm surprised Lin-Marie didn't cast himself as Jack Cole.
|by Anonymous||reply 52||04/09/2019|
I enjoyed the first episode
|by Anonymous||reply 53||04/10/2019|
I liked the first episode but I doubt I will watch the whole series since it really doesn't have a plot you need to follow
|by Anonymous||reply 54||04/10/2019|
still cant believe someone greenlit this. Haven't seen it yet, but this is so ultra-niche it sounds like it was produced just for the DL. And i'm afraid ratings will soon prove me right.
|by Anonymous||reply 55||04/10/2019|
R55 Well, not everything needs to be tailored to the DWTS & Real Housewives crowd.
R51 "homage" - that's cute.
|by Anonymous||reply 56||04/10/2019|
Not me. Strike one: Ryan Murphy. Strike two: LMM. Strike three: made by a subsidiary of IgerCorp (née Disney).
|by Anonymous||reply 57||04/10/2019|
r57 I don't think Ryan Murphy is involved with this
|by Anonymous||reply 58||04/10/2019|
Is All that Jazz streaming anywhere? I googled and searched all my tv platforms.
|by Anonymous||reply 59||04/10/2019|
r52: So Jack Cole is in it then?
|by Anonymous||reply 60||04/10/2019|
His character should be since Verdon left him to work with Fosse. To be played by Christopher Tocco.
|by Anonymous||reply 61||04/10/2019|
The comparisons to Roy Scheider are ridiculous. Claiming that he better captured Fosse...unless you knew him personally, you would never know.
I suspect that Rockwell is much closer to the real man. Roy Scheider was Fosse's fantasy of himself. Roy Scheider was who he wanted to be. The few people i know who knew or met Fosse in the 70s describe him as kind of skeevy and not at all charismatic when not doing an interview or appearing before the public.
|by Anonymous||reply 62||04/10/2019|
Loved the show, can't wait till the next episode
|by Anonymous||reply 63||04/10/2019|
It was so awful. Only a show tunes queen would like this. These people were not half as famous as The Countess.
|by Anonymous||reply 64||04/10/2019|
I didn't care for Michelle Williams as Monroe a few years back so I wasn't expecting much from her Verdon but she's the most impressive thing in this production so far. Love they made this but not sure I love it yet.
|by Anonymous||reply 65||04/10/2019|
R62, thanks for the perspective... I watched Tuesday night episode and found Rockwell's Fosse so flat that I was wondering if it was an actual portrayal or just bad acting.
In the TV show, Fosse does seem somewhat skeevy... especially with the bad comb over. It's interesting as well to see how Verdon is the muse whispering in his and others ears... behind-the-scenes, creating much of the 'magic' that was Fosse's signature look and feel.
I wasn't wowed by last night's episode, but will tune-in next week.
BTW - I didlove the end to the first episode... being minutes away from Fosse's coronary. The make-up for Rockwell in that final scene was excellent...
|by Anonymous||reply 66||04/10/2019|
Not watching. I saw Gwen Verdon in "Chicago," and not interested in Bob or Liza.
|by Anonymous||reply 67||04/10/2019|
R16, I felt the same way.
|by Anonymous||reply 68||04/10/2019|
Who is playing Ann Reinking?
|by Anonymous||reply 69||04/10/2019|
They are greenlighting the Bobby Van story right now!
|by Anonymous||reply 70||04/10/2019|
I liked it. I agree with R62. Rockwell's Fosse is an insecure but brilliant man. Verdon is the real genius. Talk about behind every great man. And Michelle Williams is doing great. She was by far the best thing about last night's episode. I always find it hard to believe that Fosse was such a pussyhound because he always has a gayness aura around him. His real problem is the smoking/pill popping. Rockwell's problem is that portraying any director is difficult because their only real charm comes out in the work, not their personality. I also wondered last night was Verdon didn't have her own career as a director/ choreographer. As for the rest the dancers are great . The actress playing Liza is a better singer than the real one, but not as charming and real. I like the idea of showing 19 years left, 16 years left. I also think there is a limited audience for this show, but there is a limited audience for most shows on television now that it is so vast.
|by Anonymous||reply 71||04/10/2019|
I watched the trailer. It shows Gwen watching rushes of the film Cabaret and pinpointing what’s wrong with it.
What is the dialogue? I can’t make it out.
|by Anonymous||reply 72||04/10/2019|
"I'm trying to think who should have played Fosse... Jude Law, Ben Affleck, , somebody with more sex appeal than Rockwell for sure."
Those guys look even less like Fosse than Rockwell does. Who the fuck would believe Ben Affleck as a dancer for ten seconds?
|by Anonymous||reply 73||04/10/2019|
Few people know who Fosse was. Older people may have seen Gwen Verdon on Broadway decades ago. Did the creative team expect people would watch, @lLin-Manuel?
|by Anonymous||reply 74||04/10/2019|
Young Sam Shepherd would have been good.
|by Anonymous||reply 75||04/10/2019|
Dick Van Patten!
|by Anonymous||reply 76||04/10/2019|
[quote]Roy Scheider was Fosse's fantasy of himself.
Let alone his first choice, PAUL FUCKING NEWMAN!!!
|by Anonymous||reply 77||04/10/2019|
I took a leak next to Bob Fosse in the summer of 1981, at the common rest room of some floor at 890 Broadway rehearsal studios. A college junior-cum-senior, I was there rehearsing for a theme park show, and he was at the studio next door rehearsing an upcoming TV version of Pippin. For a wide-eyed college kid, it was great seeing Ben Vereen and Chita Rivera roaming in the halls.
But Fosse was a dilapidated disappointment. Forget that he was a little bald 5’4” twirl who smelled like cigarettes... his dick was tiny!
|by Anonymous||reply 78||04/10/2019|
Who the hell asked you to look?
|by Anonymous||reply 79||04/10/2019|
I agree it's not going to do well--the niche demographic is so tiny as to be absurd. But I just don't think they're doing a very good job with it. There's no dramatic tension.
It's also odd to me they seem to be repeating all the worst things about "All That Jazz":
*Lots of boring discussions and arguments between Fosse and boring middle-aged/elderly Broadway producers
*Scenes of Fosse's hard work as a child dancer so we feel sorry for him (although HE was the one who wanted to be a dancer)
*Nicole's prettiness and adorableness as a child being treated as personality traits (when in both works she actually seems to have no personality as a child)
|by Anonymous||reply 80||04/10/2019|
Chill out, r79--this is a gay gossip forum. If you don't want to hear gossip about his dick size, go elsewhere--you're on the wrong forum.
|by Anonymous||reply 81||04/10/2019|
Liza has a unique, unmistakable voice. She's first and foremost a storyteller who makes you understand the lyrics from the singer's point of view. This girl is just a singer.
She had a difficult time acting Mein Herr. Liza's bit with the fedora at "And bye-bye" is a perfect little moment that Kelli did not nail.
I didn't mind her rendition of "Cabaret" in the bar.
|by Anonymous||reply 82||04/10/2019|
And Sally is supposed to be a shitty singer
|by Anonymous||reply 83||04/10/2019|
FX's FOSSE/VERDON opens with 614,000 same-day viewers and a 0.1 A18-49. I'm guessing delayed viewing will bring the show up to around 1.2M.
Same-day audience is on par with BETTER THINGS, POSE or the most recent season of LEGION. It is far below the premiere of FEUD (2.3M L+SD)
|by Anonymous||reply 84||04/10/2019|
R71, two good friends worked on the Debbie Allen revival of "Sweet Charity". They all greatly respected Gwen and very much appreciated her contributions but although she put the ingredients together, it was Fosse who shaped the production. The day he came into rehearsal, everything changed and became much sharper, faster and pointed. One compared Verdon to Baayork Lee's unending stagings of ACL. They can get the frame correct but something is missing.
|by Anonymous||reply 85||04/10/2019|
What the hell was that bit with Gwen calling Bob in Germany to say that their kid had brought Seconal to school? That is weird and random scene to stick in and it went nowhere. Wonder if it really happened or the daughter is doing anything to get her character mentioned.
I usually can't take Michelle Williams - I find her stiff and unemotional, but she's bringing me around with this role. She's showing a lot of naturalness and has a light in her eyes.
|by Anonymous||reply 86||04/10/2019|
I loved the recreations of Hey Big Spender and Mein Herr.
It got me all tingly
|by Anonymous||reply 87||04/10/2019|
When is FX going to do Ledger/Williams?
|by Anonymous||reply 88||04/10/2019|
The reviews are in:
|by Anonymous||reply 89||04/10/2019|
I found it tedious.
|by Anonymous||reply 90||04/10/2019|
Why was Fosse so tortured? He had it all. We know why Johnny Carson was a mess.
|by Anonymous||reply 91||04/10/2019|
|by Anonymous||reply 92||04/10/2019|
R91, as a boy he was sexually molested by strippers. Well, that's what he wanted you to believe.
Fosse and Carson were good friends, BTW.
|by Anonymous||reply 93||04/10/2019|
Thanks for the scoop!
|by Anonymous||reply 94||04/10/2019|
r91 Because he was an insatiable pussy hound. He couldn't love anyone, including himself.
|by Anonymous||reply 95||04/10/2019|
R52 and R60 both said "JackHole."
HEH! Heh- HEH!
|by Anonymous||reply 96||04/10/2019|
Pussyhounds can never fill that hole inside of them no matter how hard they try.
|by Anonymous||reply 97||04/10/2019|
[quote]Older people may have seen Gwen Verdon on Broadway decades ago.
People might not know her name but many today would recognize her from the "Cocoon" movies.
|by Anonymous||reply 98||04/10/2019|
She aged naturally.
|by Anonymous||reply 99||04/10/2019|
|by Anonymous||reply 100||04/10/2019|
|by Anonymous||reply 101||04/10/2019|
Are they trying to take the shine off Fosse in this series?
This article refers to him as a "sexual predator"? Is that fair?
|by Anonymous||reply 102||04/10/2019|
When is the episode with Lens Dunham as Totie Fields? Can't wait!! :)
|by Anonymous||reply 103||04/10/2019|
R10 They were talking about the movie playing at the Ziegfeld movie theater, as Fosse mentions that he thought Herbie the Love Bug was playing there and not his movie and that is what they were lined up to see.
|by Anonymous||reply 104||04/10/2019|
R98 Cocoon was almost 35 fucking years ago, no one remembers the movie and she wasn't even the star.
|by Anonymous||reply 105||04/10/2019|
And if you do happen to remember the movie, r98 hates you.
|by Anonymous||reply 106||04/10/2019|
I love the windows in their apartment, with the angles small brick like panes and the panels of stain glass. That is the type of apartment I always imagined having in the 70s in NYC, very artsy and comfortable with lots of friends over for entertaining. Even the pillows Gwen lounged on looked vintage with their great burnt oranges, harvest golds and avocado greens. The production design is excellent.
|by Anonymous||reply 107||04/10/2019|
I see Imogen Coca sometimes in Gwen.
|by Anonymous||reply 108||04/10/2019|
When will HER story be dissected?
|by Anonymous||reply 109||04/10/2019|
I am wondering why R104 felt the need to explain R10 's comment.
We all understood that R10 was saying. And his correction of the mistake in the Fosse/Verdon script is easy to verify.
|by Anonymous||reply 110||04/10/2019|
It's an interesting time for television. Or I guess I should just call it content at this point because it can be viewed across a variety of platforms.
I doubt anyone is under any illusion that Fosse/Verdon will do well in the ratings. But a prestige, high class production like thid can have an impact on branding a network or streaming service. When you have a show about Bob Fosse and Gwen Verdon with Lin-Manuel's name on it as a producer, you're making a huge statement about what you are and what your platform does. So big bucks are shelled out for what amounts to niche programming. It's great. We all kinda win.
I love this bit Gwen did with Debbie Allen on Fame. Gwen was so graceful and classy. I suspect the music has been swapped out, though. Can anyone confirm this?
|by Anonymous||reply 111||04/10/2019|
[quote] People might not know her name but many today would recognize her from the "Cocoon" movies.
The last of those was more than thirty years ago.
|by Anonymous||reply 112||04/10/2019|
Sweet Charity was the first Broadway show I ever saw. I was a teen then, and Verdon was mesmerizing on stage, a real star. Ben Vereen, an unknown at the time, was a showstopper too with his Rhythm of Life number.
|by Anonymous||reply 113||04/10/2019|
"FX's FOSSE/VERDON opens with 614,000 same-day viewers and a 0.1 A18-49. I'm guessing delayed viewing will bring the show up to around 1.2M."
I remember seeing the ads for the show and thinking...this might be interesting, but who's going to watch it besides 70-year-old gay men? I guess I was right.
|by Anonymous||reply 114||04/10/2019|
[quote]Sweet Charity was the first Broadway show I ever saw. I was a teen then, and Verdon was mesmerizing on stage, a real star. Ben Vereen, an unknown at the time, was a showstopper too with his Rhythm of Life number.
I think you're experiencing what they call the Mandela Effect; Ben Vereen was only in the movie version. His big Rhythm of Life moment was as a backup dancer for Sammy Davis Jr.
|by Anonymous||reply 115||04/10/2019|
[quote]They were talking about the movie playing at the Ziegfeld movie theater, as Fosse mentions that he thought Herbie the Love Bug was playing there and not his movie and that is what they were lined up to see.
She was telling him they went past the theater to see the line out front. He kidded that it was The Love Bug which was a huge hit that year at Radio City Music Hall. "Sweet Charity" actually played at The Rivoli in a Roadshow Engagement and played for seven months before opening wide. Top ticket was $5.00 which is about $35 today
|by Anonymous||reply 116||04/10/2019|
R111 - I like Verdon's reported response to Debbie Allen trying to explain the Evolution of the Dance number. She said, "Honey, just tell me what you want me to do."
|by Anonymous||reply 117||04/10/2019|
Her mother was such an influence on her.
|by Anonymous||reply 118||04/10/2019|
|by Anonymous||reply 119||04/10/2019|
I liked it. It's television candy. Not particularly nourishing, but enjoyable while it lasts. I agree that Williams is very good. She nails that strange hesitant quality to Verdon's voice. Rockwell is OK so far. It wasn't until the scenes from upcoming episodes that I realized they were going to go back further than the "Sweet Charity" (film) starting point of this episode.
As for the actress who played Liza, I gave her credit for keeping it modulated. It's so easy for a Liza interpretation to tip into satire.
|by Anonymous||reply 120||04/10/2019|
What’s a nourishing tv show?
|by Anonymous||reply 121||04/10/2019|
Chicken Soup with Lynn Redgrave
|by Anonymous||reply 122||04/10/2019|
I’d love to movie remake of Cabaret using the broadway 1998 version. Naughty and politically timely, unfortunately
|by Anonymous||reply 123||04/10/2019|
Why are they still trying to pretend Fosse was straight?
|by Anonymous||reply 124||04/10/2019|
It's an understatement to say that Bob Fosse was challenging to work with. He was irritable, inappropriate and often clashed with his collaborators in front of all his dancers. The show doesn't sugar coat any of this.
|by Anonymous||reply 125||04/10/2019|
R121 Good point. We are talking television.
|by Anonymous||reply 126||04/10/2019|
Kelli Barrett as Liza.
|by Anonymous||reply 127||04/10/2019|
[quote]Why are they still trying to pretend Fosse was straight?
You know something no one else does? Because he was creative and a dancer that makes him gay? By all accounts he was a huge pussyhound almost to the point of cruelty to others.
|by Anonymous||reply 128||04/11/2019|
Tedious? I loved it. A series that shows the making of Sweet Charity and Cabaret and god knows what else (Chicago, All That Jazz, Lenny?) I mean c'mon.
Tedious for me is Walking Dead or Game of Thrones.
I'm a gay man. This is heaven.
I can't wait for the next series of Wolf/Dunaway (omigod that would be delicious - 70s rock meets 70s Hollywood)
|by Anonymous||reply 129||04/11/2019|
R128, He was also very well hung and proud of it. Debbie Reynolds recounted in her book that when they were both at MGM, he would rehearse in just dance tights and liked to rub his package up against his female partners.
|by Anonymous||reply 130||04/11/2019|
[quote] He was also very well hung and proud of it.
Then he was a grower, because when I peed next to him, it looked like pee was coming out of his clasped thumb and index finger.
Could have been the meds, I suppose.
|by Anonymous||reply 131||04/11/2019|
Or Debbie is full of shit/prone to exaggerating. A very possible answer.
|by Anonymous||reply 132||04/11/2019|
I enjoyed it so much I watched it twice. I know, MARY!
Hair, make up, costumes, lighting, sets, music, acting, choreography - all captivating.
Can anyone here comment on the choreography and dancers? Are the rehearsal scenes inspired or replicated Fosse choreography? My one complaint is that some of the shots were so tight that the viewers could not appreciate the choreography.
|by Anonymous||reply 133||04/11/2019|
Verdon asking if Liza could act... Liza has a Tony and Oscar nomination already by 1971. Just saying...
|by Anonymous||reply 134||04/11/2019|
Hell, he was a lot bigger than Agnes!
|by Anonymous||reply 135||04/11/2019|
Who is Kelli Barrett? Should we know her?
|by Anonymous||reply 136||04/11/2019|
R130 Any dick was too big for Debbie.
|by Anonymous||reply 137||04/11/2019|
|by Anonymous||reply 138||04/11/2019|
Mario Cantone should've played Liza.
|by Anonymous||reply 139||04/11/2019|
More, more, more! More of your opinions and knowledge and gossip! I loved musicals as a kid. I can’t watch a clip of Hamilton without feeling embarrassed for everyone, and I really dislike the social issue musicals, so I haven’t cared as an adult.
But I love the 60s/70s stuff when show business was sexy.
|by Anonymous||reply 140||04/11/2019|
Chita Rivera was featured in the Big Spender number in the film of Sweet Charity,as was Paula Wayne, but neither are in it in this series.
|by Anonymous||reply 141||04/11/2019|
Lens Dunham plays Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme later in the season. She was a dancer in "Sweet Charity" for a hot minute.
|by Anonymous||reply 142||04/11/2019|
Bianca Marroquin as Chita Rivera.
|by Anonymous||reply 143||04/11/2019|
Kelli Barrett is known for her work on Broadway as well as her role in Marvel's The Punisher, and plays the iconic Liza Minnelli—who seems to be a personal hero of Barret's. "Thank you for inspiring me all of these years with your balls-to-the-wall unapologetic bad assery," Barrett wrote in a recent Instagram post.
|by Anonymous||reply 144||04/11/2019|
You call it "ballsh-to-the-wall" -- I call it DRUNK!
|by Anonymous||reply 145||04/11/2019|
“I call it, ‘mama, can you hear me!?’”
|by Anonymous||reply 146||04/11/2019|
Schweeter than a Shunschweet prune on top of Schierra Towersh at shunrishe!
|by Anonymous||reply 147||04/11/2019|
I'm one of the old queens who is loving the show. Michelle is perfect. Sam is sexier than Bob. I hated ALL THAT JAZZ. Looking forward to the rest of the series.
As for Fosse and his sexuality, he was SO sexual that I could totally believe that he had his dick sucked at least Once by a male dancer he really liked (as a person and dancer) just out of curiosity to see what it was all about. He was surrounded by gay men, he must have been hit on all the time (even if it was for a chance to land a role in a Fosse show). I never found Fosse attractive; he was cute in the early years but he grew out of that.
|by Anonymous||reply 148||04/11/2019|
r148=total fantasist. Can you not cope with the fact that the guy was a raging heterosexual?
|by Anonymous||reply 149||04/11/2019|
Calm down R149. You seem very invested.
|by Anonymous||reply 150||04/11/2019|
Au contraire. It's r148 who seems very invested in his fantasy.
|by Anonymous||reply 151||04/11/2019|
During rehearsals, Bobby, who was so in love with his own well-endowed self, would come up behind me and press his “gift” into my backside to tease me. It was obvious he wasn’t wearing a dance belt; I could feel everything he wanted to share. And Bobby didn’t respond to subtle discouragement, like being pushed away vigorously. Fed up, I went to a nearby drugstore one day at lunchtime, to purchase a jockstrap for him, hoping to help him contain his enthusiasm. “Give me the biggest jockstrap you carry,” I told the clerk. “An extra-extra large.” He looked at me, puzzled. “I have an extra large size,” he responded, “but the only color it comes in is black.” Perfect. I bought it. Back at rehearsal, I placed my present in Bobby’s locker. He got the message and never poked me again.
|by Anonymous||reply 152||04/11/2019|
I have no idea who these people are but I enjoyed the first episode quite a bit. Especially the actress playing Liza.
Though the German interpreter calling herself a translator did make me cringe. That distinction is literally the first thing you learn when you study to become an interpreter/translator.
|by Anonymous||reply 153||04/11/2019|
Gotta remember Debbie was a tiny thing, maybe five foot and ninety pounds. A full grown man would feel big to her.
|by Anonymous||reply 154||04/11/2019|
R154, Remember, Debbie lost her virginity to Eddie Fisher's beer can cock.
|by Anonymous||reply 155||04/11/2019|
[quote]Though the German interpreter calling herself a translator did make me cringe. That distinction is literally the first thing you learn when you study to become an interpreter/translator.
Is this what you are referring to?
[quote] On the surface, the difference between interpreting and translation is only the difference in the medium: the interpreter translates orally, while a translator interprets written text. Both interpreting and translation presuppose a certain love of language and deep knowledge of more than one language.
|by Anonymous||reply 156||04/11/2019|
Fosse's choreography is inventive but at the same time, I find it twitchy and off-putting. There's the dancing in Pajama Game, during the song "Once a Year Day" where Carol Haney and a bunch of female dancer jerk around screaming "whee!" like slow adults. Then the whole crowd holds hands and does Twister (the game) moves. Also, the "Lola" dance in "Damn Yankees", Gwen twitches and flails around like a meth addict. However, there's a scene in My Sister Eileen where Fosse does some great, athletic moves.
|by Anonymous||reply 157||04/11/2019|
He seems like a predator.
|by Anonymous||reply 158||04/11/2019|
|by Anonymous||reply 159||04/11/2019|
Fosse had a very limited dance vocabulary which is why his style is so identifiable and easy to mimic. By the time he got to Chicago, he stopped choreographing for character and scene. They were fun and exciting but in Sweet Charity, he was using dance as expression. Either he was lazy or just started losing the talent for it. The booze and drugs were already taking its toll.
|by Anonymous||reply 160||04/11/2019|
How was he molested? By the creepy dance instructor who doesn’t want to see the work/sweat? He’s looming over the flashbacks...
|by Anonymous||reply 161||04/11/2019|
I don't suppose they'll go back as far as KISS ME KATE.
Didn't Fosse choreograph the 'From This Moment On' number? Although it was credited to Hermes Pan, it sure has the Fosse style.
BTW, Tommy Rall is still alive, at age 89
|by Anonymous||reply 162||04/11/2019|
They wont be able to get someone sexier than Tommy Rall to play him.
|by Anonymous||reply 163||04/11/2019|
Fosse choreographed only his section of "From This Moment On," according to some doc I saw somewhere (either A&Es Biography series or That's Entertainment).
|by Anonymous||reply 164||04/11/2019|
Fosse choreographed that middle section; the style is distinctly his. The rest I think was Pan.
|by Anonymous||reply 165||04/11/2019|
IMDb lists Fosse in the credits (as "uncredited"), and I'm sure some documentary or article specifically said that he did the section for himself and Haney.
|by Anonymous||reply 166||04/11/2019|
That one minute Fosse choreographed (with himself and Carol Haney) just blew everything else in KISS ME, KATE out of the water.
It must have been especially arresting in 3-D.
|by Anonymous||reply 167||04/11/2019|
It's pretty spectacular. The only thing that tops it is Tommy Rall's jump from what must be 20 feet up.
|by Anonymous||reply 168||04/11/2019|
That has to be the queeniest name in Show Biz History.
|by Anonymous||reply 169||04/11/2019|
It's hilarious when Ann Miller starts tapping in that number. She's actually very good and didn't have to rely on that like a crutch but I guess it's what her audiences expected.
R161, remember that scene in ATJ where the young Joe Gideon is aroused by the strippers and he goes onstage having ejaculated in his pants? That was a regular occurrence and in the Gottfried bio, they used to bet as to who could get him hard fastest before he went on the stage. When he was 15, he was named the other man in a divorce document one of the stripper's husband filed.
|by Anonymous||reply 170||04/11/2019|
I think it’s great. Michelle Williams never fails- she is a phenomenal character actress, she can disappear into any role. She should have an Oscar, she can act circles around JLaw and Emma Stone.
|by Anonymous||reply 171||04/11/2019|
How many hips have been replaced in the name of Fosse?
|by Anonymous||reply 172||04/11/2019|
|by Anonymous||reply 173||04/11/2019|
[quote]Verdon asking if Liza could act... Liza has a Tony and Oscar nomination already by 1971.
I thought the same thing!! Sterile Cuckoo anyone?
|by Anonymous||reply 174||04/11/2019|
Fosse wasn't an irresistible seducer. He got sex the same way Roger Ailes did, by making female employees put out if they wanted to work.
|by Anonymous||reply 175||04/11/2019|
I watched a documentary and they pronounced his name as "Foss" and not "Fossee" as I always have.
|by Anonymous||reply 176||04/11/2019|
Oh, Dear God.
Did someone owe Bob a favor?
|by Anonymous||reply 177||04/11/2019|
Poor Ann. It wasn't her idea. She was very much caught in the middle. The Academy made the choice not to allow Phil Collins to perform the song live. They invited her, she agreed, and then Phil Collins started complaining to the press that he wasn't allowed to perform his own song.
She couldn't back out, she'd already agreed. A sucky situation all around brought about by I guess the stodginess of the Academy.
|by Anonymous||reply 178||04/11/2019|
Everything worked out in the end.
|by Anonymous||reply 179||04/11/2019|
Michelle Williams is one of the great american actresses. You're lucky to have her.
|by Anonymous||reply 180||04/11/2019|
If Reinking did a good job, no one would have cared about what led up to it. But she gave one of the most legendary bad performances in Oscar history. And the question still is how did she fuck up the lyrics when it was prerecorded?
|by Anonymous||reply 181||04/11/2019|
Margaret Qualley is Ann Reinking. Qualley is best known for her role in HBO's The Leftovers. But 2019 is poised to be her breakout year, between her turn as actress and dancer Ann Reinking, and her portrayal of Kitty Kat in Quentin Tarantino's Once Upon a Time of Hollywood, slated to hit theaters this July.
|by Anonymous||reply 182||04/11/2019|
Qualley is also Andie McDowell's daughter, if that hasn't been mentioned.
|by Anonymous||reply 183||04/12/2019|
[quote]A sucky situation all around brought about by I guess the stodginess of the Academy.
Tell us about it.
|by Anonymous||reply 184||04/12/2019|
The first episode was so boring. Was there any plot at all?
|by Anonymous||reply 185||04/12/2019|
Following the commercial failure of his filmmaking debut, Sweet Charity, director-choreographer Bob Fosse is determined to make his next project, Cabaret, a success, even if it means defying producer Cy Feuer and cheating on his wife, Gwen Verdon.
|by Anonymous||reply 186||04/12/2019|
I hope they cover the making of Lenny.
|by Anonymous||reply 187||04/12/2019|
Fosse stole much from Jack Cole - including Gwen.
|by Anonymous||reply 188||04/12/2019|
If Beale Street could talk...
|by Anonymous||reply 189||04/12/2019|
Lenny is covered. Read the review posted sometime before above in this thread.
|by Anonymous||reply 190||04/12/2019|
|by Anonymous||reply 191||04/12/2019|
Lizha won't go toplessh.
|by Anonymous||reply 192||04/12/2019|
|by Anonymous||reply 193||04/12/2019|
What I've learned on this thread is that Bob Fosse was a major mussyhound who would have been best played by Ben Affleck.
And people say Broadway queens have trouble with reality!
|by Anonymous||reply 194||04/12/2019|
I quite enjoyed the first episode. Michelle Williams was pretty terrific and Sam Rockwell is pretty excellent, too.
|by Anonymous||reply 195||04/12/2019|
Oh R195, of course you enjoyed it, everyone here did, but it's Datalounge, you're not supposed to admit it.
|by Anonymous||reply 196||04/12/2019|
I enjoyed the first episode, but I had to keep explaining things to my husband like “oh, that’s Neil Simon’s wife” and “That’s Harold Prince.” I’m puzzled how the producers or network thought this would appeal to anyone but hardcore theater queens (like me).
|by Anonymous||reply 197||04/12/2019|
Actually Liza was already a Tony WINNER by the time she did Cabaret. It was kind of stupid writing when Gwen asked if she could act. Gwen must’ve known her in Broadway circles or known of her.
|by Anonymous||reply 198||04/12/2019|
[quote] Actually Liza was already a Tony WINNER by the time she did Cabaret. It was kind of stupid writing when Gwen asked if she could act.
Yes, all Tony winners are of course automatically GREAT actors!
|by Anonymous||reply 199||04/12/2019|
R199 don’t be dense. Liza received an Oscar nomination too in 1970. Plus she won her Tony in the musical category, so it’s safe to say she had more of a modicum of talent, both acting and performing, to pull off Cabaret.
|by Anonymous||reply 200||04/12/2019|
r200, don't YOU be dense.
You were making the dubious claim that having won a Tony Award for Best Actress meant Liza was automatically a great actress, when my point is that of course Merman and Tune are/were terrible actors, but both have won the Tony for acting in a musical.
|by Anonymous||reply 201||04/12/2019|
R175, When shows were out of town in previews, Fosse would phone vulnerable females in the production after midnight and summon them to his hotel room.
|by Anonymous||reply 202||04/12/2019|
This is what I've leaned after the first episode: Fosse was a sleazy, predator asshole who owns his success entirely to his wife's talent.
|by Anonymous||reply 203||04/12/2019|
Gwen was being bitchy because she probably knew Bob would go for her.
|by Anonymous||reply 204||04/12/2019|
Lucy was cast as Sally Bowles, but Gary....
|by Anonymous||reply 205||04/12/2019|
R201 You may not like Tune or Merman. Fine asshole. You try doing Broadway. Its a massive endeavor for a performer. There are always people who win a major acting award who are more deserving or less deserving. But by 1971 when Cabaret started filming, Liza had proved herself and was on the map with a career on Broadway and an Oscar nomination in film. So Liza’s talent wasn’t a fluke with one Tony win. I stand by what I said. For Gwen not to have seen Liza in her musical she won for or Sterile Cuckoo doesn’t ring true. What have you done with your life you dense idiot?
|by Anonymous||reply 206||04/12/2019|
Flora the Red Menace only ran for some 90 performances in 1964 from May to July. It was a huge flop and there's no reason Gwen or Fosse would have seen it. Liza mainly won the Tony because there was no serious competition that year in her category.
The Sterile Cuckoo was a small indy film that appealed mostly to college students. It did not play any of the big "picture houses on Broadway" (as DL fave Arlene Francis might have noted). Until Cabaret, Liza had never appeared in a musical film.
I think it's completely reasonable that Gwen would not have been acquainted with Liza's talents. At the time, most people still thought of Liza as Judy's daughter.
|by Anonymous||reply 207||04/12/2019|
Or maybe Gwen never really said, “Can Liza act?” in real life and it was just a lousy screenplay line.
|by Anonymous||reply 208||04/12/2019|
[quote] What have you done with your life you dense idiot?
Oh yes, your pathetic and impotent little hissy fit has shown me the emptiness of my entire life.
|by Anonymous||reply 209||04/12/2019|
R209 comebacks and sharp retorts will be never be something you’re smart enough to do, so give it a merciful rest.
|by Anonymous||reply 210||04/12/2019|
[quote] But 2019 is poised to be her breakout year, between her turn as actress and dancer Ann Reinking
If her turn is anything like every other supporting actor turn in this mess then she may be waiting for 2020 to be her big breakout year.
|by Anonymous||reply 211||04/12/2019|
I was lucky to see Liza'sopening night at the Winter Garden in January 1974. Vincente Minnelli was there. Not sure about Fosse.
|by Anonymous||reply 212||04/12/2019|
[quote] I was lucky to see Liza'sopening
No. No you weren't. Trust me.
|by Anonymous||reply 213||04/12/2019|
r210, you're blocked
|by Anonymous||reply 214||04/12/2019|
So who plays Kidd you know the guy who made Gwen an overnight star in one of the most legendary happenings in Broadway history?
Charity would have played seven months at the Rivoli and had a long line outside only in Fosse's dreams.
And I waited in a long line outside Radio City to see TLB on a Sunday afternoon at Easter time in '69 and on the way seeing the large billboard on the back of the Rivoli for SC.
Rall wipes the runt Fosse off the screen in both MSE and KMK.
|by Anonymous||reply 215||04/12/2019|
Cabaret is the most overrated movie musical in history. The original musical is so much better.
I also saw Cliff Gorman in Lenny on Broadway and though I was still a boy it was one of the most memorable theatrical experiences of my life. The movie was pretty weak in comparison. Fosse at his peak is The Rich Man Frug in the film of SC. Utterly spectacular to this day.
|by Anonymous||reply 216||04/12/2019|
R216 I very much disagree with you. I watched Cabaret recently and was pretty stunned at how fantastic it was. I think it's a different animal from Hal Prince's stage version, but brilliant in its own right.
Honestly, I was also shocked by how much of what's going on today I recognized in some of the scenes. Pretty fucking chilling.
|by Anonymous||reply 217||04/12/2019|
[quote] [R210], you're blocked
He was right. You do suck at comebacks and sharp retorts.
|by Anonymous||reply 218||04/12/2019|
[quote] Honestly, I was also shocked by how much of what's going on today I recognized in some of the scenes. Pretty fucking chilling.
Yup. Fill that biergarten with a bunch of trannies and Cabaret could be ripped from today's headlines.
|by Anonymous||reply 219||04/12/2019|
[quote]Cabaret is the most overrated movie musical in history. The original musical is so much better.
And I agree with people that say "Cabaret" the movie isn't a musical. The STAGE version is, all the characters break out in song. In the movie only people on stage sing. No one thinks of "Lady Sings The Blues" released the same year, is a musical, but as with Liza, Diana Ross only sings songs onstage and it has a 35 cut double soundtrack album that "Cabaret" doesn't. "A Star Is Born" '76 & '18 aren't considered musicals and they both won the Best Song Oscars their years. A full blown movie version of the musical of "Cabaret" would be nice.
|by Anonymous||reply 220||04/13/2019|
Let's not forget the reformatting of The Boyfriend!
|by Anonymous||reply 221||04/13/2019|
R192 Liza is such a sloooooooooow interview.
|by Anonymous||reply 222||04/13/2019|
Liza is a mere Grammy away from EGOT status.
|by Anonymous||reply 223||04/13/2019|
"Who's Got the Pain" from Damn Yankees looks like an incredibily stupid filler song.
|by Anonymous||reply 224||04/13/2019|
Not any more than Steam Heat or Turkey-Lurkey. It's about the choreography not the lyrics.
|by Anonymous||reply 225||04/13/2019|
R223, so am I.
|by Anonymous||reply 226||04/13/2019|
[quote] It's about the choreography not the lyrics.
Why can't a number be about both? I'd rather have no lyrics than stupid ones.
|by Anonymous||reply 227||04/13/2019|
[quote] Not any more than Steam Heat or Turkey-Lurkey. It's about the choreography not the lyrics.
Well, what does that even mean, though?
I mean, you're right that they are remembered for their choreography and not for their lyrics, but only Broadway show queens remember them at all. It's not as with certain musical dance numbers where people will hum them because both the melodies/lyrics were great. I've heard people singing "Mein Herr" and "Get Me to the Church on Time," and even "A Secretary is not a Toy," because the songs were great even though they were just mostly dance numbers. I've never heard anyone sing "It's Turkey Lurkey Time" to themselves.
|by Anonymous||reply 228||04/13/2019|
[quote] [R223], so am I.
Except Liza actually has a chance at a Grammy.
|by Anonymous||reply 229||04/13/2019|
Cher's only a Tony away from an EGOT
|by Anonymous||reply 230||04/13/2019|
I didn't say it couldn't be both, r227. I hate to break it to you, but life isn't always about your....
|by Anonymous||reply 231||04/13/2019|
I go back and forth on the Cabaret movie. It's got some really great moments, but I miss the landlady romantic subplot from the show. It's a really beautiful and moving section and I don't feel like the movie has much heart. You don't really care about what happens to Sally or Cliff (isn't it Brian in the movie for some reason?). I also feel like Liza is simply too strong a performer to convince me that she wouldn't have made it somewhere by that point. I love the idea of Sally being this mediocre talent who believes she's something spectacular. It fits in with everyone else's delusions. The pace also feels much slower than the stage version.
|by Anonymous||reply 232||04/13/2019|
Cher won an Emmy in 2003 for Cher- The Farewell Tour.
So why the fuck are we still stuck with her?
|by Anonymous||reply 233||04/13/2019|
[quote]Except Liza actually has a chance at a Grammy.
It’s kind of hard to imagine for what at this point.
|by Anonymous||reply 234||04/13/2019|
[quote] It’s kind of hard to imagine for what at this point.
I was thinking Lifetime Achievement, Living Legend, that kind of thing. Competitive- no.
|by Anonymous||reply 235||04/13/2019|
[quote]Cher's only a Tony away from an EGOT
If "The Cher Show" wins Best Musical, she gets it. She is a producer.
|by Anonymous||reply 236||04/13/2019|
[quote]If "The Cher Show" wins Best Musical
|by Anonymous||reply 237||04/13/2019|
she won't even be a Tony nominee
|by Anonymous||reply 238||04/13/2019|
The plot twist where Gwen Verdon is some kind of genius because she flies from Germany all the way to NYC just to find the *perfect* gorilla costume. Then there’s impending DRAMA when she flies back with the costume in hand and shows up at Bob’s front door ... where he’s in bed with the German translator! Cliffhanger!
|by Anonymous||reply 239||04/13/2019|
And who’s the German Translator supposed to be? Was she a real person or some weird writer’s idea?
|by Anonymous||reply 240||04/13/2019|
She's just some pussy I wanted at the time.
|by Anonymous||reply 241||04/13/2019|
R240 Most of it seems to be fantasy
|by Anonymous||reply 242||04/13/2019|
The translator was supposedly real since Cabaret was made in Germany.
|by Anonymous||reply 243||04/13/2019|
R240, the translator was Ilsa Schwarzwald. According to Wasson, she was described as resembling Verdon. Verdon found out about the affair when Ilsa's husband wrote to her about the relationship.
|by Anonymous||reply 244||04/13/2019|
r219 must be the anti-trans troll. Nice of you to drag trans people into EVERY discussion
|by Anonymous||reply 245||04/13/2019|
R245 Fuck off, you Loon
|by Anonymous||reply 246||04/13/2019|
r246, you're the loon. This thread was fun before it was taken over by Republicans.
|by Anonymous||reply 247||04/13/2019|
R245 is the stealth homophobe troll.
|by Anonymous||reply 248||04/13/2019|
Pic from the 2nd episode. I thought that sliding chair bit was in the Damn Yankees number Too Lost Souls.
|by Anonymous||reply 249||04/14/2019|
Cannot WAIT to see Lens Dunham as Ann Miller later in the season. Rumor has it she recreates the "Tom, Dick, or Harry" number from Kiss Me Kate, and blows it out of the park!
|by Anonymous||reply 250||04/15/2019|
no, r250. she just stands there guzzling Campbells Soup.
|by Anonymous||reply 251||04/15/2019|
Fuck that soup business, honey!
|by Anonymous||reply 252||04/15/2019|
It’s NOT Campbell’s!!
|by Anonymous||reply 253||04/16/2019|
r207 you are wrong Liza's first movie was n the Good Old Summertime"-1949- a musical .
|by Anonymous||reply 254||04/16/2019|
Could she act?
|by Anonymous||reply 255||04/16/2019|
I always thought I read an article that Gwen wasn't a smoker so it was weird seeing Gwen smoking in the 1st ep. and always was amazed she was with a mega chain smoker like Fosse... maybe I'm confusing her with someone else
|by Anonymous||reply 256||04/16/2019|
R254 She looks like her father. Poor thing.
|by Anonymous||reply 257||04/16/2019|
Strong language and sexual situations!!!
|by Anonymous||reply 258||04/16/2019|
My God. Michelle Williams is so good as Gwen. Every gesture.
|by Anonymous||reply 259||04/16/2019|
What just happened with Joan and she couldn’t walk? Miscarriage?
|by Anonymous||reply 260||04/16/2019|
Oh she’s dying. Never mind!
|by Anonymous||reply 261||04/16/2019|
Fosse was a monster of selfishness apparently.
|by Anonymous||reply 262||04/16/2019|
|by Anonymous||reply 263||04/16/2019|
The actress reminds me so much of Tina Fey. I had to check twice.
|by Anonymous||reply 264||04/16/2019|
Holy shit, that was terrible. They should never have shown Williams trying to dance but the biggest sin was the episode was boring. Good luck trying to hang on to ratings.
|by Anonymous||reply 265||04/16/2019|
Uh oh, I fell asleep for most of it.
|by Anonymous||reply 266||04/16/2019|
I wonder if they offered it to Fey?
|by Anonymous||reply 267||04/16/2019|
So odd to me that such a terrible song -- Who's Got the Pain -- saved the act.
Williams is amazing.
|by Anonymous||reply 268||04/16/2019|
Fosse never went to see his dying wife after he got together with Verdon.
|by Anonymous||reply 269||04/16/2019|
What is it about him that drove these women wild? I don't get it.
|by Anonymous||reply 270||04/16/2019|
R270, Fosse chain smoked, so his breath must have stunk 24x7.
|by Anonymous||reply 271||04/16/2019|
r270, it's called being rich and famous
|by Anonymous||reply 272||04/16/2019|
Yeah, but they had their own fame, money and cigarettes.
|by Anonymous||reply 273||04/16/2019|
He obviously had magnetism and a good dickgame that doesn't come across on film.
|by Anonymous||reply 274||04/16/2019|
R270, sometimes talent is an aphrodisiac.
|by Anonymous||reply 275||04/16/2019|
Gwen was no beauty.
Bob was better looking than her when young, but lost his looks very drastically.
The fact that he got to sample Jessica Lange's twat later shows how it was about his power.
|by Anonymous||reply 276||04/16/2019|
Susan Misner is Joan McCracken.
|by Anonymous||reply 277||04/16/2019|
Susan Misner looked like McCracken, but I think she was a bit too young. McCraken was 10 years older than Fosse. That didn't come across in this show.
|by Anonymous||reply 278||04/16/2019|
Fosse was an insufferable drama queen. He threatened to commit suicide TWICE in this one episode.
|by Anonymous||reply 279||04/16/2019|
He has the artistic temperament.
|by Anonymous||reply 280||04/16/2019|
Liza already has an honorary Grammy, which makes her an EGOT winner.
|by Anonymous||reply 281||04/16/2019|
R256 She smoked -- you can hear her voice go from very strong in 'Damn Yankees" and get less strong with each succeeding show recording.
|by Anonymous||reply 282||04/16/2019|
That could just be age and also I thought Gwen was a health food nut so smoking doesn't jive with that.
|by Anonymous||reply 283||04/16/2019|
Yeah, there's a famous picture of Fosse and Verdon rehearsing, and they both have cigarettes dangling from their lips.
|by Anonymous||reply 284||04/16/2019|
R228 Come around to my place Thanksgiving time. I do my Donna McKechnie impersonation and sing the shit out of "Turkey Lurkey Time". But gotta warm up those arm rolls at the end -- they're killer!
|by Anonymous||reply 285||04/16/2019|
Wow, Susan Misner is 48. She looks a lot younger.
|by Anonymous||reply 286||04/16/2019|
Jesus, Sam Rockwell has all the charisma of peeling paint. This has rapidly gotten unwatchable, no matter how good Michelle Williams is.
|by Anonymous||reply 287||04/16/2019|
Joan McCracken was ten years older than Fosse, but she was still only 43 when she died. The problem isn't so much Misner's look, as the fact that Sam Rockwell at 50 is a little long in the tooth to play Fosse in his 20s and 30s, which is when Fosse was married to McCracken.
|by Anonymous||reply 288||04/16/2019|
Bob: I'll kill myself. I swear.
Gwen: No, Bob. You can't. You're greatest work is ahead of you. I just know it.
|by Anonymous||reply 289||04/16/2019|
oops. mean to wrote Your greatest ...
|by Anonymous||reply 290||04/16/2019|
I am going through Paul Reiser withdrawal.
|by Anonymous||reply 291||04/16/2019|
It was driving me crazy trying to place where I knew the actress who was playing Fosse's wife before Verdon...... she played Stan's wife on The Americans.
|by Anonymous||reply 292||04/16/2019|
Does this show stink? I watched episode 1 and thought it was ok. If episode 2 was no better, or worse I might not bother.
I think the impossible thing with any Fosse biography type thing is to live up to All That Jazz. It's just not possible. ATJ, and documentary footage of Fosse's work with Verdon, Ben Vereen, Ann Reinking or whoever else is bound to be superior to any filmed thing like Fosse /Verdon. Though, I do think Michelle Williams did a great job imitating Gwen Verdon.
|by Anonymous||reply 293||04/16/2019|
Don't bother R293 you sound like a crank.
|by Anonymous||reply 294||04/17/2019|
[quote]What just happened with Joan and she couldn’t walk? Miscarriage?
|by Anonymous||reply 295||04/17/2019|
R16 - I'm with you. After the first 15 minutes, I turned it off. I could tell that the preciously tedious pace was going to ruin the whole thing.
|by Anonymous||reply 296||04/17/2019|
I don't care for the non-linear time sequence.
|by Anonymous||reply 297||04/17/2019|
Here's Michelle on Busy Tonight.
|by Anonymous||reply 298||04/17/2019|
Apparently we’ve all forgiven Michelle for causing Heath’s demise. Musical comedy is that powerful.
|by Anonymous||reply 299||04/17/2019|
I have never really liked Michelle or Busy
|by Anonymous||reply 300||04/17/2019|
Heath over-medicated. How is that Michelle's fault?
|by Anonymous||reply 301||04/17/2019|
In the late 40s and early 50s, Fosse was "cute" in an elfin way, but that don't age well.
|by Anonymous||reply 302||04/17/2019|
r283 - I didn't know Gwen could dance jive.
|by Anonymous||reply 303||04/17/2019|
So they are both horrible people. Because they were talented we are suppose to overlook that they are scum. Love women who go with a cheater and then are hurt when he cheats on them.
|by Anonymous||reply 304||04/17/2019|
Wait: how did she get to be scum, r304?
|by Anonymous||reply 305||04/17/2019|
She's dating a guy and fucking married Fosse, even after she found out the wife is sick, and gets pissed that he won't leave the sick woman. But's it's ok, she's a great dancer.
|by Anonymous||reply 306||04/17/2019|
Last week was fine. This one was very boring. Don't know if I'll make it to the end. Just like I gave up on FEUD. Michelle is the best thing. Gwen started messing with a married man. No sympathy. Fuck them both. R297 Me either.
|by Anonymous||reply 307||04/17/2019|
[quote]I don't care for the non-linear time sequence.
I can handle that. But his memories of childhood tapping away in front of him is a theatrical device that translates very poorly, if not outright corny, when used on a TV movie.
|by Anonymous||reply 308||04/17/2019|
I don't find this series particularly compelling, or innovative, or original. Didn't we already know most of this stuff about both of them (or did know at some point)? Not sure why they took the trouble to make it.
|by Anonymous||reply 309||04/17/2019|
|by Anonymous||reply 310||04/17/2019|
I know I'm a broken record here, but am I the only one who thinks Sam is simply doing a toned-down "Chuck Barris"?
|by Anonymous||reply 311||04/17/2019|
Neil Patrick Harris would have been an interesting Fosse.
|by Anonymous||reply 312||04/17/2019|
I can't believe Gwen left that big hunk of man in her room to go with Fosse.
|by Anonymous||reply 313||04/17/2019|
R313 I was thinking the same thing.
|by Anonymous||reply 314||04/17/2019|
[quote]I'm with you. After the first 15 minutes, I turned it off. I could tell that the preciously tedious pace was going to ruin the whole thing.
So why are you here?
|by Anonymous||reply 315||04/17/2019|
I wonder what Gwen would have thought of being portrayed in this scandalous way.
|by Anonymous||reply 316||04/17/2019|
One thing I don't think they are getting is how much more attention Gwen would have been getting over Fosse at this time.
She was a Tony-winning star of the show. They make it look like they were equals during Damn Yankees. There were not.
|by Anonymous||reply 317||04/17/2019|
|by Anonymous||reply 318||04/17/2019|
Misner was great in a L&O CI playing a bad girl turned nun.
|by Anonymous||reply 319||04/17/2019|
I think (hope) this bloated indulgent mess will teach the director, producers, writers and everyone else involved that just because you have a certain amount of hours doesn't mean you have to abandon certain techniques like pacing and editing. Last night's bomb could have easily been condensed into ten minutes or less. All of that time used to showing the minutia of Who's got the pain was dreadful. The irony is that they didn't show the bad number that the producers threw out so we could see some comparison. Instead, they had Williams badly faking "Pain".
It did remind me of Michael Bennett's greatest skill in shaping a show, which was his excellent pacing.
|by Anonymous||reply 320||04/17/2019|
The “I will stop watching!” crowd will continue to watch each episode and bitch about them on Datalounge which is always fun.
|by Anonymous||reply 321||04/17/2019|
R303, that's what I told everyone who said I ripped her off
|by Anonymous||reply 322||04/17/2019|
There were times in this that Williams looked uncannily like Shirley MacLaine.
|by Anonymous||reply 323||04/17/2019|
I usually dont like Williams, but she is doing an excellent job....she really does look like Verdon in her younger years and shes doing an exceptional job with the recreations of the dances.
|by Anonymous||reply 324||04/17/2019|
What a strange, sexless little boy body Williams has in her dance tights. No ass, no legs, big boobs. Good thing her face is so photogenic and expressive. But that is NOT a dancer's body.
|by Anonymous||reply 325||04/17/2019|
How much can we blame of this on Miranda?
|by Anonymous||reply 326||04/17/2019|
I love Carmen Miranda! Leave her out of this.
|by Anonymous||reply 327||04/17/2019|
Since he wants all the credit, he can take all the blame.
|by Anonymous||reply 328||04/17/2019|
He's one of several executive producers. Is he trying to hog credit for the whole thing?
|by Anonymous||reply 329||04/17/2019|
I agree with the poster upthread about the non linear storyline. It’s like they’re trying too hard to get people hooked right away that it ruins the pace. We can handle the story being told straight way through. The way it is now makes it hard to get into the story. I watched it with my boyfriend who is unfamiliar with Fosse or Verdon and he couldn’t follow it enough to enjoy it.
It’s a shame Ryan Murphy isn’t behind this. It’s in his wheel house and I think it would’ve been better with his input.
I think Rockwell and Williams are doing great though.
|by Anonymous||reply 330||04/17/2019|
Oh, Lin “Manwell” Miranda is a producer?
No wonder it sucks
|by Anonymous||reply 331||04/17/2019|
R320 Yea like how they showed us that same clip of Verdon standing outside the hotel door knocking, holding the gorilla head. I think they showed that like four times.
|by Anonymous||reply 332||04/17/2019|
This show is not dynamic at all when it's focusing on Fosse - he is is black vacuum of who cares. Whining and blackmailing and cheating and threatening suicide. I know he was a womanizer but had no idea he was so emotionally damaged ("I'll kill myself!") but the actor isn't making me feel anything for him, not even pity.
|by Anonymous||reply 333||04/17/2019|
r329: He's the one flooding social media with his references to the series....tripping over his zillions of posts about casting for the In the Heights film and for WSS--which he has no claim to whatsoever, unless you count providing some lyric translations for the Arthur Laurents revival (lyrics that were jettisoned halfway through the run).
|by Anonymous||reply 334||04/17/2019|
R325, how can Williams have a little boy body when you claim she has big boobs. Actually, many female dancers did have little boy bodies and resorted to bolt on titties like Sandahl Bergman
|by Anonymous||reply 335||04/17/2019|
I agree, r333. Michelle Williams is doing all the heavy lifting here. I’m enjoying it for the most part, but there’s a sort of listless quality to it and the structure of the episodes are clumsy. I definitely think it would have benefited from Ryan Murphy’s touch. Rockwell’s Fosse is also flat and lifeless and seems to be a drag on this production.
|by Anonymous||reply 336||04/17/2019|
This would NOT have benefited from any Ryan Murphy association
|by Anonymous||reply 337||04/17/2019|
They are borrowing from his production techniques...and its obvious.
|by Anonymous||reply 338||04/17/2019|
It simply didn't need to be made; it's lifeless.
|by Anonymous||reply 339||04/17/2019|
It is problematic to have one of the main characters so unlikable/unsympathetic.
It would be one thing if he were being portrayed as a villain, but we are supposed to want them together.
|by Anonymous||reply 340||04/17/2019|
R335, I guess I mean little body except for the boobs. You have to agree about her ass though. And no waist. I like her performance, I just think she lacks any kind of va voom, which Verdon had in spades.
|by Anonymous||reply 341||04/17/2019|
Yeah, she does kind of have a boy body which is why I didn't buy her as Marilyn Monroe
|by Anonymous||reply 342||04/17/2019|
R341, I was more offended that they didn't just get a double to do the dancing like they did for Jennifer Beals in Flashdance and use her face in closeups. Speaking of no waist, Reinking was always thick along with no neck and linebacker's shoulders.
I seem to recall in the Gottfried Fosse bio that one male chorus dancer said that seeing Verdon for the first time in leotards was incredible. He said she had that white skin contrasted to the black leos with the red hair, long legs and "swells of a stripper" which was a line I remembered because it was so descriptive.
|by Anonymous||reply 343||04/17/2019|
quote]What a strange, sexless little boy body Williams has in her dance tights. No ass, no legs, big boobs. Good thing her face is so photogenic and expressive. But that is NOT a dancer's body.
Verdon was no bombshell, Dear.
|by Anonymous||reply 344||04/17/2019|
And Gwen had a face for the back row.
|by Anonymous||reply 345||04/17/2019|
|by Anonymous||reply 346||04/17/2019|
R346 Now, THOSE are hostess pants.
|by Anonymous||reply 347||04/17/2019|
|by Anonymous||reply 348||04/17/2019|
Fuck you R344, R345.
|by Anonymous||reply 349||04/17/2019|
Phallic symbol. Get it? To think, Chicago hit the high ticket price of $17.50 to see this.
|by Anonymous||reply 350||04/17/2019|
First problem is the series title: "Fosse/Verdon."
Clumsy sound, plus a slant mark implying closerthanthis, even surpassing Romeo AND Juliet.
|by Anonymous||reply 351||04/17/2019|
Verdon flying to Germany to save the film Cabaret is just nonsense. Never happened.
|by Anonymous||reply 352||04/17/2019|
|by Anonymous||reply 353||04/17/2019|
R352 Why? Because you say so?
She did fly to the set to help him.
|by Anonymous||reply 354||04/17/2019|
You got to give the daughter credit for allowing such unsympathetic portrayals of them.
|by Anonymous||reply 355||04/17/2019|
Two episodes and we still haven't seen the scene where Verdon catches Fosse in bed with the translator and it's been teased all through both installments. Since it was a breaking point in their relationship, why introduce it so early.
I thought the scene with Joan and Gwen in the ladies room was the best in the series so far. You can see Verdon's jealously about the marriage yet it's Joan who is very subtly telling Gwen she knows what's going on and what will eventually happen. It happened to her and it will happen to Gwen. They're the same woman because Fosse will never change.
Overall, I was surprised with the tender portrayal of the Fosse/McCracken relationship. Nice detail when he carries her out of the studio and we see she's soiled her dress. Then again, the article posted above suggests that she had an intellectual grip on Fosse which is what a man who felt inferior the way he did needed. He idolized Verdon's talent but that wasn't enough for him.
|by Anonymous||reply 356||04/17/2019|
[quote] Two episodes and we still haven't seen the scene where Verdon catches Fosse in bed with the translator and it's been teased all through both installments. Since it was a breaking point in their relationship, why introduce it so early.
To keep us watching r356. That door might not open until the last episode!
|by Anonymous||reply 357||04/17/2019|
R357, I'm sure the four people who are still watching til the last episode will be riveted.
|by Anonymous||reply 358||04/17/2019|
To think that by 1967, the three gals at r353, were at the top of the theater, TV, and film industry, one each.
|by Anonymous||reply 359||04/17/2019|
Everyone has seen McCracken in "Pass That Peace Pipe" but watch this not well known number from "Hollywood Canteen", "Ballet in Jive 1944". She's just amazing. Technically she's great but she has this Lucy-like lovability in her looniness and naivety.
|by Anonymous||reply 360||04/17/2019|
[quote]Overall, I was surprised with the tender portrayal of the Fosse/McCracken relationship.
I wonder how much of that is just trying to make Fosse more sympathetic to the audience.
For example, in the show, she leaves him. But in real llfe, he abandoned her.
|by Anonymous||reply 361||04/17/2019|
R361, they didn't care about making Verdon unsympathetic in that instance. She tells Fosse he has to leave McCracken. A great line. McCracken: You want my permission? You've got that. But it's not enough, is it"?
|by Anonymous||reply 362||04/17/2019|
Susan Misner as Liz.....
|by Anonymous||reply 363||04/17/2019|
A slightly different version.....
|by Anonymous||reply 364||04/17/2019|
Wiki's plot for episode 2 is up - "As Gwen and Bob's marriage deteriorates following the discovery of his latest extramarital affair, Gwen reflects on how they first met during pre-production for Damn Yankees as well as how their personal and professional relationship began at the cost of Bob's marriage to ailing Broadway star Joan McCracken."
|by Anonymous||reply 365||04/17/2019|
I hope Gwen Verdon doesn't know I am secretly judging her for being the Rielle Hunter in the relationship.
|by Anonymous||reply 366||04/17/2019|
[quote]Apparently we’ve all forgiven Michelle for causing Heath’s demise.
You misspelled Mary Kate Olsen
|by Anonymous||reply 367||04/17/2019|
I loved the “audition” scene in episode 2
If Ryan Murphy had anything to do with this, Datalounge would lose its mind.
Do we really need to see Gwen explode when she finds the translator in Bob’s bed? Since we’ve seen the fallout of her discovery of the affair, the discovery scene itself would have little new to offer about the characters or the story.
|by Anonymous||reply 368||04/17/2019|
R368, since it's the catalyst of their breakup, yeah, we need to see it.
|by Anonymous||reply 369||04/17/2019|
Susan Misner's IBDB....
|by Anonymous||reply 370||04/17/2019|
For those interested Nicole posted receipts showing her tickets, what she bought for costumes (Liza Tedd $35 and the Gorilla head)
|by Anonymous||reply 371||04/17/2019|
Gwen actually found Fosse in bed with two German women, apparently he said he was rehearsing the "Two Ladies" number and was doing research, or something to the effect.
|by Anonymous||reply 372||04/17/2019|
Fosse/Verdon: The Tragic Story of Bob Fosse’s Second Wife, Joan McCracken
“Joan McCracken was single-handedly responsible for getting Bobby Fosse his first job as a choreographer on Broadway.”
|by Anonymous||reply 373||04/17/2019|
Verdon should have been played by an actress of color. It's ridic that they cast yet another white woman
|by Anonymous||reply 374||04/17/2019|
I wish Fosse had been married to Lorena Bobbitt.
|by Anonymous||reply 375||04/17/2019|
That would have made the bent knees style understandable.
|by Anonymous||reply 376||04/17/2019|
"I'm trying to think who should have played Fosse... Jude Law, Ben Affleck, , somebody with more sex appeal than Rockwell for sure.
Bob Fosse had NO sex appeal. His choreography style was sexy but he sure wasn't. In fact, he always looked sickly even when young; pale, thin, with thinning hair. Constant smoking, poor diet, drink and drugs, little sleep...all that contributed to his unwell appearance. A good looking, sexy actor as Bob Fosse would have been miscasting.
|by Anonymous||reply 377||04/17/2019|
[quote]any Fosse biography type thing is to live up to All That Jazz
All That Jazz is fictionalized, and only deals with a specific period in Fosse/Sam Gideon's life. While it would have been great to see Leland Palmer actually play Gwen Verdon in a Verdon biopic, she doesn't get to do that much in the movie.
|by Anonymous||reply 378||04/17/2019|
Fun fact: Joan's first husband was Truman Capote fave Jack Dunphy.
|by Anonymous||reply 379||04/17/2019|
[quote] Verdon should have been played by an actress of color. It's ridic that they cast yet another white woman
|by Anonymous||reply 380||04/17/2019|
Very true, R376.
|by Anonymous||reply 381||04/17/2019|
R380 One of those people who have been hired by Actors Equity with an official title, but in reality to make a barrier to make it more difficult for white folks to be cast, even though enough minorities don't show up when there are roles for POC.
|by Anonymous||reply 382||04/17/2019|
Really, r382? I kind of assumed that was a lame joke.
|by Anonymous||reply 383||04/17/2019|
I assumed it was a joke, too, a spoof of the kind of SJW thinking that goes on these days.
|by Anonymous||reply 384||04/17/2019|
Yeah, but you never know -- some folks take it too far.
|by Anonymous||reply 385||04/17/2019|
^^What, here on the DL? Impossible!
|by Anonymous||reply 386||04/17/2019|
r335, are you saying Sandahl's BARE titties in All That Jazz were fake?
|by Anonymous||reply 387||04/17/2019|
R387, what do you think?
|by Anonymous||reply 388||04/17/2019|
Who IRL was Autumn who was dancing with her?
|by Anonymous||reply 389||04/17/2019|
Leland Schwantes. Son is also a dancer.
|by Anonymous||reply 390||04/17/2019|
r388, they look real to me but I'm far from an expert.
|by Anonymous||reply 391||04/17/2019|
R391, when they stand straight up, they're implants. See, you learned something about titties on DL.
|by Anonymous||reply 392||04/17/2019|
I think the outside skin and the nipples are real, it's the stuffing which is suspect.
|by Anonymous||reply 393||04/17/2019|
"I assumed it was a joke, too, a spoof of the kind of SJW thinking that goes on these days."
Funny, because the people who whine about "SJWs" are mostly too busy watching Touch By an Angel reruns to care about this show
|by Anonymous||reply 394||04/17/2019|
R390 Get the fuck out of here! There were two people in the movie with the odd name of Leland, who both danced and were different genders? How bizarre is that??? Apparently, male Leland became a famous hand model, but I couldn’t find any pictures of him other than those in the movie.
|by Anonymous||reply 395||04/17/2019|
R395, watch this. It's Chita's night club act done on the Merv Griffin Show. It's the gayest thing ever and watch how fascinated Merv is with Leland who is one of Chita's dancers.
|by Anonymous||reply 396||04/17/2019|
McCracken was short, cute and charactery. Why would they pick Misner?
|by Anonymous||reply 397||04/17/2019|
Gwen's face was unfortunate
|by Anonymous||reply 398||04/17/2019|
Gwen put up with a lot.
|by Anonymous||reply 399||04/17/2019|
No, I'm not kidding. Actresses of color should have been considered for the Verdon role. I'm so sick of white actors getting roles by default. The privilege stinks and I'm over it.
|by Anonymous||reply 400||Last Thursday at 1:57 AM|
But r400 this role called for somebody who looks like her
|by Anonymous||reply 401||Last Thursday at 2:54 AM|
Oh, forget it, r400. It's difficult to engage with someone whose essential point is valid but who stretches it well beyond reason.
|by Anonymous||reply 402||Last Thursday at 3:38 AM|
Williams is really great in this.
|by Anonymous||reply 403||Last Thursday at 6:19 AM|
"No, I'm not kidding. Actresses of color should have been considered for the Verdon role. I'm so sick of white actors getting roles by default. The privilege stinks and I'm over it."
Trollin' trollin' trollin'
You're just here to get freepers stirred up about "political correctness" - the ones who are so concerned about color blind casting, but don't care if you cast a 30-year-old to play a 17-year-old, or if you hire a 45-year-old actor to play someone who died at 33, or if you hire a gorgeous actor to play someone who was fug in real life
|by Anonymous||reply 404||Last Thursday at 8:00 AM|
Misner was cast as Joan McCracken because producer Joel Fields had already worked with her on The Americans and she was hired as a technical advisor for the dance stuff because she’d been a Broadway dancer. Was she in Fosse’s Dancin’ when she was a very young girl?
|by Anonymous||reply 405||Last Thursday at 9:09 AM|
Why wasn't Lens Dunham casted as Gwen's love interest Dolores LaDanza?
|by Anonymous||reply 406||Last Thursday at 9:20 AM|
I guess Ethan whatsisname from Spongebob Squarepants got cut from the first episode? He was playing Joel Grey and apparently performed “Two Ladies.”
For those wondering what those random shots of Verdon taking a curtain call for it’s from when she did Can Can.
|by Anonymous||reply 407||Last Thursday at 9:45 AM|
R407, we know because she's holding her outfit in front of her, which is allegedly what happened after she did her number. The crowds were still cheering for her and she'd gotten out of her costume and had to return for a bow.
|by Anonymous||reply 408||Last Thursday at 9:50 AM|
See r370, r405. She'd was born in 1971 and Dancin' ran from 1978-82, so.....
|by Anonymous||reply 409||Last Thursday at 10:22 AM|
I think Misner did a production of Dancin’ in Japan, though.
|by Anonymous||reply 410||Last Thursday at 10:41 AM|
[quote] I guess Ethan whatsisname from Spongebob Squarepants got cut from the first episode? He was playing Joel Grey and apparently performed “Two Ladies.”
Slater is not supposed to show up until next week. He's listed as being in 6 of the 8 episodes, but not in either of the ones that have already aired.
|by Anonymous||reply 411||Last Thursday at 10:56 AM|
Why is it so boring? I thought these people were supposed to be interesting.
|by Anonymous||reply 412||Last Thursday at 11:01 AM|
R403 Absolutely! I wasn't a big fan of Michelle before this role. I think she is perfectly cast as Gwen. "Damn Yankees" has always been a favorite film of mine, and was actually my introduction to Fosse/Verdon. I love everything Fosse has done.
|by Anonymous||reply 413||Last Thursday at 11:28 AM|
R411, did you get that from imdb? That’s often wrong. I doubt Ethan Slater as Joel Grey is featured in 6 out of 8 episodes. Each episode focuses on different projects-Episode 1 focused on Cabaret and Sweet Charity and Episode 2 focused on Damn Yankees.
|by Anonymous||reply 414||Last Thursday at 11:32 AM|
I think Michelle has been surprisingly solid as Gwen. She has just enough of a singing voice to pull of the songs and she's not a bad dancer at all. The show itself is a bit meandering, but like someone else said, I don't think there are any big bombshells about Fosse and Verdon's lives that we didn't already know about.
|by Anonymous||reply 415||Last Thursday at 12:16 PM|
[quote] [R411], did you get that from imdb? That’s often wrong. I doubt Ethan Slater as Joel Grey is featured in 6 out of 8 episodes. Each episode focuses on different projects-Episode 1 focused on Cabaret and Sweet Charity and Episode 2 focused on Damn Yankees.
No it doesn't. The timeline is all over the place. Kelli Barrett is credited as being in seven episodes as Liza. They can't possibly be through with Cabaret already. It hasn't even been completed in the series, and there's no way they're going to skip its success and the fact that it did so well at the Oscars, winning for Fosse, Minnelli and Grey.
|by Anonymous||reply 416||Last Thursday at 12:18 PM|
I hope they touch on LIZA WITH A 'Z' - It did win him the Emmy.
|by Anonymous||reply 417||Last Thursday at 12:40 PM|
R417, they have eight fucking hours to kill, they should touch on it. They can tie that one in because Verdon was in the audience.
|by Anonymous||reply 418||Last Thursday at 12:49 PM|
R141 - Paula Kelly was the other 'Big Spender'. She was amazing and should have gone on to bigger things. I only remember her from SC and the first season of 'Night Court'.
|by Anonymous||reply 419||Last Thursday at 12:58 PM|
No, R416. Cabaret is never featured after Episode 1. The miniseries wouldn’t have time to return to that and still feature Lenny, Pippin, All That Jazz, Children, Children, Big Deal, Dancin’ and Star 80.
|by Anonymous||reply 420||Last Thursday at 1:00 PM|
R419, Kelly's career was killed when she appeared in Playboy and showed vage. Hairy bush didn't go over big.
I saw her about a decade or more ago judging a high school talent competition with DL fave Bonnie Franklin. She was very good in her observations.
|by Anonymous||reply 421||Last Thursday at 1:00 PM|
And the miniseries also has a section with Verdon doing the films Cocoon and Marvin’s Room. I wish it had contained her brief appearance on the daytime soap All My Children-she was a quick replacement for Carol Burnett as Judith Sawyer.
|by Anonymous||reply 422||Last Thursday at 1:03 PM|
I want to see Lilo having meltdowns over Verdon's dancing in the Garden of Eden and as an apache.
|by Anonymous||reply 423||Last Thursday at 3:37 PM|
I assume they will cover the filming of Damn Yankees.
|by Anonymous||reply 424||Last Thursday at 3:42 PM|
|by Anonymous||reply 425||Last Thursday at 3:47 PM|
She was the star of Can-Can and felt Gwen's success in her supporting numbers upstaged her.
|by Anonymous||reply 426||Last Thursday at 3:48 PM|
Here she is.
|by Anonymous||reply 427||Last Thursday at 3:51 PM|
[quote]Kelly's career was killed when she appeared in Playboy and showed vag
Word at the time was that booze and drugs are what did her in at "Night Court." I don't think anyone cared about her vag by that point.
|by Anonymous||reply 428||Last Thursday at 4:30 PM|
[quote]Cabaret is never featured after Episode 1. The miniseries wouldn’t have time to return to that and still feature Lenny, Pippin, All That Jazz, Children, Children, Big Deal, Dancin’ and Star 80.
Are you sure about that, or just guessing? Why would they have gone to the trouble of hiring Ethan Slater to play Joel Grey and then not use him? And I doubt that all those shows you list will be dealt with. I can't imagine Star 80 in it, for example. Plus, they filmed a recreation of the "Bye Bye Life" number from All That Jazz, and it sounds like it's going to be late in the series, last episode, which will lead directly to the scene on the opening night of the Charity tour when Fosse dies.
|by Anonymous||reply 429||Last Thursday at 4:34 PM|
R429, I know a crew guy on it and he told me that Pippin, Chicago, All That Jazz, Big Deal and Children!Children! are all featured in upcoming episodes and Star 80, Cocoon, Marvin’s Room and Liza With a Z are only touched on. There are only flashes of Cabaret in future episodes. Slater doing “Two Ladies” has been cut.
|by Anonymous||reply 430||Last Thursday at 5:05 PM|
Sorry, scratch that about “Two Ladies” being cut. It’s in the next episode. Fosse, his assistant Chrissy and editor David are watching it in the editing room and Fosse complains that it doesn’t move the story forward and is a “three minute jerk off.” Gwen shows up to tell her their housekeeper Diniz is sick, she has to go to a dinner meeting and dumps Nicole on Bob.
|by Anonymous||reply 431||Last Thursday at 5:14 PM|
The shooting of “Tomorrow Belongs To Me” is also in the next episode.
|by Anonymous||reply 432||Last Thursday at 5:19 PM|
[quote] Are you sure about that, or just guessing? Why would they have gone to the trouble of hiring Ethan Slater to play Joel Grey and then not use him? And I doubt that all those shows you list will be dealt with. I can't imagine Star 80 in it, for example. Plus, they filmed a recreation of the "Bye Bye Life" number from All That Jazz, and it sounds like it's going to be late in the series, last episode, which will lead directly to the scene on the opening night of the Charity tour when Fosse dies.
No, he's either trolling or he's a complete fucking moron.
|by Anonymous||reply 433||Last Thursday at 6:40 PM|
I want to see Gwen and Thelma Ritter in a tie for Best Actress in a Musical accepting their awards, or at least interacting with each other. I don't know how they got on with each other, but they both sound fine on the OCR. I really like the score to "New Girl in Town".
Lilo actually had quite a nice voice on the OCR. Gwen was hired for the show since Lilo didn't dance, and the writers felt they needed a female character outside the chorus as a character in a show about can-can dancing, especially when the show is called "Can-Can". But while Lilo got mostly good reviews, Verdon stole the show. The show had some really other actors in it: Hans Conried, Peter Cookson, and Eric Rhodes (from two Astaire-Rogers films). But it was Gwen who made the sensation in it. Those are teases of her on stage holding her costume in front of her; she was recalled from the dressing room where she was already undressed and in the process of changing costumes when the audience started yelling out "We want Verdon!" for a curtain call.
|by Anonymous||reply 434||Last Thursday at 7:01 PM|
All that crap and no scenes with Gwen teaching MM and Jane Russell how to dance??
|by Anonymous||reply 435||Last Thursday at 7:55 PM|
Will there be a scene with Paula Kelly putting a curse on The Golden Girls?
|by Anonymous||reply 436||Last Thursday at 8:09 PM|
When will F/X do the Making of The Women Of Brewster Place docuseries?
|by Anonymous||reply 437||Last Thursday at 8:12 PM|
I think the theatrically based behind the scenes talent have simply lost their way on this one. They seem to think that every element of Fosse and Verdon's collaboration was worthy of examination. It's not and the audiences aren't interested in that. It's total vanity. Some of it is low grade camp, like when Fosse leaves McCracken and they started playing "Whatever Lola Wants" in the background.
|by Anonymous||reply 438||Last Thursday at 8:19 PM|
|by Anonymous||reply 439||Last Thursday at 8:22 PM|
Fosse's collapsing on a DC sidewalk, with Gwen by his side, will be high drama.
|by Anonymous||reply 440||Last Thursday at 8:55 PM|
R429 It also appears they will return to the filming of Sweet Charity, since the promos teased a recreation of The Rich Man's Frug number, although I guess that could be from the stage version. They haven't touched on that yet.
|by Anonymous||reply 441||Last Thursday at 9:35 PM|
Gwen on the Rosie O'Donnell Show
|by Anonymous||reply 442||Last Thursday at 10:05 PM|
This is supposed to be a young Gwen but it's hard to recognize her.
|by Anonymous||reply 443||Last Friday at 2:56 AM|
WIll we see them rehearsing Dancin'? Or how about "All That Jazz" with Roy Schreiber?
|by Anonymous||reply 444||Last Friday at 7:11 AM|
^^are people posting on this thread from Shady Pines?^^
|by Anonymous||reply 445||Last Friday at 7:18 AM|
Lail, Miranda and Levenson are all married but the production plays like a bizarre wishlist. They are looking for their own Gwen Verdon.
|by Anonymous||reply 446||Last Friday at 8:30 AM|
One of the stand-ins on it told me that Michelle Williams was a cold cunt who got the original costume designer William Ivey Long as well as the wardrobe supervisor and hair/make-up department heads.
|by Anonymous||reply 447||Last Friday at 12:23 PM|
Oops, I forgot to include she got them FIRED.
|by Anonymous||reply 448||Last Friday at 12:24 PM|
R444 Was Roy Schreiber Avery's hot brother?
|by Anonymous||reply 449||Last Friday at 12:33 PM|
Maybe he's a cousin of r446's Lail. AKA KAIL.
|by Anonymous||reply 450||Last Friday at 12:42 PM|
R447 That makes me like her even more.
|by Anonymous||reply 451||Last Friday at 12:52 PM|
6 time Tony winner William Ivey Long gets fired and doesn't make the papers?
|by Anonymous||reply 452||Last Friday at 1:37 PM|
He was fired in pre-production.
|by Anonymous||reply 453||Last Friday at 2:11 PM|
R447: If I had an entire production resting on my shoulders, I would ice out the pesky stand-ins and fire anyone who wasn't doing their job to make me look great, too.
|by Anonymous||reply 454||Last Friday at 2:36 PM|
Thank you for your contribution to this thread, R454/Debra Messing.
|by Anonymous||reply 455||Last Friday at 3:55 PM|
I saw next week's episode last night at the screening and talkback they had at the 92nd Street Y with the stars and creative team. Sam, Michelle, Lin-Manuel, etc. were all there along with Nicole Fosse (who came off as a real hoot, lots of personality). The episode was quite riveting I must say, with Michelle especially giving a beautifully-defined performance as Verdon. (Rockwell, while by no means embarrassing himself, is miscast in my opinion.) The talkback itself was sort of anemic -- none of them, save for Thomas Kail, the director, seemed to have much to say, with Lin-Manuel jumping in with jokes where needed to bridge any awkward silences. (Say what you will about Miranda, he knows how to work a crowd.)
As my friend who was with me pointed out, I believe the problem was that they did this talkback too soon in the series -- i.e., they only had 3 episodes to talk about. They should have waited until it was over and then had it, which would have given them a lot more breathing room to discuss what happens. (Neither Sam nor Michelle seemed all that thrilled about being there.)
|by Anonymous||reply 456||Last Friday at 3:59 PM|
Interesting r456. For some reason, I can totally see both Sam and Michelle being cold interviews. They're excellent actors but they come across cold and aloof off the screen ( for me, anyway).
|by Anonymous||reply 457||Last Friday at 4:02 PM|
Since you have seen episode 3 can you give us a plot synopsis please and tell of any set piece recreations.
|by Anonymous||reply 458||Last Friday at 4:33 PM|
Michelle’s performance in this really puts her in another caliber of actors. She is simply brilliant. This is a career watershed for her.
|by Anonymous||reply 459||Last Friday at 4:37 PM|
Everyone keeps raving about Michell's performance but I find her impression of Gwen a little too studied and forced. Anyone else?
|by Anonymous||reply 460||Last Friday at 4:40 PM|
I'm not sure saying her performance is too studied is a valid. Of course it's studied - she's playing a real person, not a fictional one. She would be criticised if she didn't try to emulate Verdon.
|by Anonymous||reply 461||Last Friday at 5:33 PM|
R458, I don't want to give too much away but you will see a disturbing episode in Gwen's past come back to haunt her. You will also see a little bit more of Rockwell dancing as Fosse and the recreation of a pivotal moment in Verdon's career. (Peter Scolari also appears as well as Broadway favorites Norbert Leo Butz and Santino Fontana.) As for set recreations, the editor from Vanity Fair magazine who moderated the talk last night asked Nicole Fosse about their apartment. Believe it or not, she said that that entire set was reconstructed based solely on a collection of Polaroids she had taken of the apartment and that she was stunned at how close to the real thing it was. It was located at 69th and Central Park West and she said that when they lived there during her childhood it was actually a very sketchy neighborhood.
By the way, someone in the audience asked about the on-screen descriptions of time like "26 years left," etc. Lin-Manuel said those touches were lifted directly from the book that the series is based on.
|by Anonymous||reply 462||Last Friday at 5:35 PM|
Compare Michelle as Gwen to Glenda Jackson when she played Patricia Neal in that made-for-TV movie about her strokes. Jackson used her usual English accent so made no attempt to emulate Neal's Southern one. So for me that was a failure.
|by Anonymous||reply 463||Last Friday at 5:38 PM|
Do we ever see the actress playing Joan McCracken dancing? I wish they had cast someone with a little more quirkiness (like the original) than the generically bland brunette who plays her.
|by Anonymous||reply 464||Last Friday at 5:42 PM|
R461, it appears you hit the nail right on the head: someone did ask Sam and Michelle last night about their technique where it came to playing these two very real people and Michelle said it was a two-pronged approach: one part studious and one part what she called "free to dream," which I took to mean approaching them just as characters at a certain point and less like real people. Sam wholeheartedly agreed with her answer.
|by Anonymous||reply 465||Last Friday at 5:43 PM|
I saw an interview with Naomi Watts about doing Diana. She said it was daunting because she was playing a real person, and more than that, the most observed woman in the world at one time, and the actress knew the daggers would be out for her. So she studied the voice and the mannerisms, like in the famous Martin Bashir interview and for her public appearances, but then she was free to do what she wanted for private moments where no knew what was really said or what happened. Also Watts is shorter than Diana was but that more a problem for the director to cover up.
|by Anonymous||reply 466||Last Friday at 5:50 PM|
I never knew Magnum P.I.'s mom was at one time a famous dancer
|by Anonymous||reply 467||Last Friday at 5:55 PM|
r461, I guess what I mean is that her performance strikes me as too self-conscious. Meryl Streep's Maggy Thatcher impression seemed forced in the same way.
|by Anonymous||reply 468||Last Friday at 6:27 PM|
[quote]Margaret Qualley is Ann Reinking. Qualley is best known for her role in HBO's The Leftovers. But 2019 is poised to be her breakout year, ...
Qualley is a much better actress than her mother Andie MacDowell.
|by Anonymous||reply 469||Last Friday at 6:51 PM|
The ratings for the second episode dropped by almost a third and the premier wasn't a big hit to begin with. This isn't going to be pretty.
|by Anonymous||reply 470||Last Friday at 8:41 PM|
r470 No surprise
|by Anonymous||reply 471||Last Friday at 8:59 PM|
R456, was Rockwell’s horrible wife Leslie Bibb with him? The blonde who never shuts up on the red carpet at awards shows?
The “disturbing episode in Gwen’s life” in the next episode concerns her son who was born before she moved to NY. The episode is rather self-consciously titled “Me and My Baby.” Yeah, yeah, I know that’s a song from Chicago but still.
|by Anonymous||reply 472||Last Friday at 9:08 PM|
R472, you just made me think of Ipji from Futurama with the "horrible wife" observation.
|by Anonymous||reply 473||Last Friday at 9:42 PM|
R469 What do the ratings matter here though? It's a mini-series, it's been made and paid for and slotted to be seen. Whoever is interested will watch it, and if people talk about it and like it, others will watch. In other words -- quit yer bitchin' as it don't matter.
|by Anonymous||reply 474||Last Friday at 10:49 PM|
above meant for R470 .
|by Anonymous||reply 475||Last Friday at 10:50 PM|
[quote] Qualley is a much better actress than her mother Andie MacDowell.
Darling, Pia Zadora is a better actress than Andie MacDowell.
|by Anonymous||reply 476||Last Friday at 10:56 PM|
Qualley's also quite a good dancer
|by Anonymous||reply 477||Last Friday at 11:05 PM|
If it was a 1920s Hollywood story Gwen's son would join her and Fosse on the circuit to be a great vaudeville act.
|by Anonymous||reply 478||Last Friday at 11:16 PM|
I thought Williams was dreadful in episode 2. She overacted her reactions to seeing McCraken in the rehearsal room, and the crying scene on the beach was ham-city. Oy.
|by Anonymous||reply 479||Last Friday at 11:33 PM|
R479 Did Jimmy die or something?
|by Anonymous||reply 480||Last Saturday at 12:00 AM|
Verdon was a dramatic and somewhat over the top woman, so I think Michelle was channeling her correctly by being over the top as well, in the rehearsal and beach scenes
|by Anonymous||reply 481||Last Saturday at 1:40 AM|
Jimmy did not inherit his mother's ability to dance.
|by Anonymous||reply 482||Last Saturday at 1:42 AM|
R393, You THINK "the outside is real"?! NS, S! The implants go UNDERNEATH the skin. As for r391, Man, are you dumb.
|by Anonymous||reply 483||Last Saturday at 2:04 AM|
R472, Rockwell and Bibb are not married.
|by Anonymous||reply 484||Last Saturday at 2:08 AM|
R400 is a complete moron. Would she like to see Tom Hanks, say, portray Malcolm X?
|by Anonymous||reply 485||Last Saturday at 2:24 AM|
And speaking of ethnicity, am I the only one who finds “Who’s Got the Pain” somewhat racist? I know it was perfectly acceptable in the 1950’s, but why would the producers of the mini-series choose to harp so much on a number that makes a buffoonery of an ethnic group? It would be like a biopic of Judy Garland or Fred Astaire glorifying the musical numbers they did in blackface at some points in their early careers.
Plus, the “mambo” choreography (more like a half-time merengue) was hideous. Not Fosse’s finest moment.
|by Anonymous||reply 486||Last Saturday at 2:36 AM|
Musicals of the fifties always had the obligatory mambo number and rarely was it done right (Big exceptions are West Side Story and another musical ABOUT the fifties, Dirty Dancing). But at least they weren’t as insulting as Damn Yankees, where white people poke fun at a Latin dance with retarded characterizations.
|by Anonymous||reply 487||Last Saturday at 2:41 AM|
*Not to derail the thread, BUT...I also don't think Andie MacDowell is much of an actress, but watch the new season of CUCKOO on Netflix. She's on it this season and she is excellent, totally hilarious. Not sure how they got this performance out of her.*
Back to the show: I'd never heard of Joan McCracken before this. What a talent! And sad story.
|by Anonymous||reply 488||Last Saturday at 3:34 AM|
MacDowell was also a revelation in Sex, Lies and Videotape, and Short Cuts. I guess a good director can do wonders.
|by Anonymous||reply 489||Last Saturday at 3:36 AM|
A pic of the team at the 92nd Street Y night.
|by Anonymous||reply 490||Last Saturday at 3:51 AM|
Not a surprise, but F/V is the lowest rated FX show of the season:
|by Anonymous||reply 491||Last Saturday at 4:09 AM|
Maybe the low ratings are the reason Williams and Rockwell were less than thrilled to be at that screening.
|by Anonymous||reply 492||Last Saturday at 4:15 AM|
Look at their body language in that pic and the way they are leaning away from each other.
|by Anonymous||reply 493||Last Saturday at 6:56 AM|
Anybody go to the Paley Center exhibit? How is it?
|by Anonymous||reply 494||Last Saturday at 6:57 AM|
They got along fine on the set according to my crew friend.
|by Anonymous||reply 495||Last Saturday at 7:00 AM|
Michelle Williams is mesmerising in this. I've watched the 2nd episode (most of it) twice. Her scene with Aya Cash as Joan Simon when she asks her how it is she doesn't miss dancing and Simon says, "I'm not Gwen Verdon." Williams' response is brilliant.
|by Anonymous||reply 496||Last Saturday at 7:08 AM|
Any coverage of All That Jazz seems meta to me as you have Sam playing Bob directing Roy playing Bob. it makes my head explode.
|by Anonymous||reply 497||Last Saturday at 7:12 AM|
R483 Of course the outside is real. You can't take everything here seriously. Just funning with you. Chill.
|by Anonymous||reply 498||Last Saturday at 7:39 AM|
R474 has to be LMM. Only someone associated with a flop would try to justify lousy ratings/attendance.
|by Anonymous||reply 499||Last Saturday at 8:01 AM|
Mary Ann Niles was Fosse's first wife. He asked Michael Bennett to give her a job in "Ballroom" which he did then Fosse started badmouthing Bennett publicly, especially about ACL. That was certainly jealousy because he had eclipsed Fosse but Bennett couldn't understand doing someone a favor and then have them publicly trash you.
Prince gave Nicole a job in Phantom but he never said anything about him.
|by Anonymous||reply 500||Last Saturday at 8:12 AM|
Why so fixated on ratings? In this day and age when people binge watch shows from their dvrs or on demand, and on off of streaming sites, ratings don't give a full picture of what people are watching.
|by Anonymous||reply 501||Last Saturday at 8:44 AM|
R501, LMM, don't you another touring company of Hamilton to supervise. That's a hit. Audiences love it and it sells out everywhere. F/V is not.
|by Anonymous||reply 502||Last Saturday at 9:14 AM|
The ratings won't matter.
This is a one-off. It was never going to be renewed.
It is a prestige project for FX. If it gets lots of Emmys, FX will be thrilled.
|by Anonymous||reply 503||Last Saturday at 9:15 AM|
R503, it won't get any Emmys. Williams might get a nomination but that's about it. It will be forgotten by the time the nominations roll around.
|by Anonymous||reply 504||Last Saturday at 9:22 AM|
I'm sure Rockwell will be nominated, although I think he's miscast.
|by Anonymous||reply 505||Last Saturday at 9:25 AM|
Yeah, Rockwell is hitting all sorts of false notes. Usually he's a chameleon, an actor who embodies the characters plays so completely it usually takes me a while to recognize him. But here, there are times when he comes across as an actor clumsily saying his lines, which is a first from him in my opinion.
I don't know if I'll stick this one out, but I think I'll watch as many episodes as I can fit into my odd schedule. Fosse has always fascinated me, Williams is so good, and there's Fosse choreography to watch.
|by Anonymous||reply 506||Last Saturday at 9:34 AM|
Agreed r506. I honestly just see Sam Rockwell trying to play Bob Fosse, but I completely believe Williams as Verdon.
|by Anonymous||reply 507||Last Saturday at 9:38 AM|
I think Williams is a shoo-in for a nomination. And possibly a win.
|by Anonymous||reply 508||Last Saturday at 9:38 AM|
Do you really think LMM would be here? Actually he might try to keep current on this demographics' feelings on musicals and such. No, but I'm the one called out for possibly being him when I just said that the show has already been made, so what does it really matter about ratings. There's not going to be a sequel.
|by Anonymous||reply 509||Last Saturday at 9:42 AM|
Has Michelle ever won anything? It seems she’s one of these actresses who’s always nominated but never can actually win.
|by Anonymous||reply 510||Last Saturday at 9:42 AM|
Williams is another chameleon and one who's getting it right, she really REALLY looks like Verdon.
Although as noted, she doesn't have Verdon's figure. They really should have done something about that. If Verdon could suffer through wearing the Merry Widow foundation garments of the fifties to get that shape, so should Williams!
|by Anonymous||reply 511||Last Saturday at 9:43 AM|
She's won a few Critics awards but not any leading awards as of yet. She's been nominated four times for an Oscar.
I didn't know she's set to play Christa McAuliffe, the teacher who died in the Challenger disaster.
|by Anonymous||reply 512||Last Saturday at 9:51 AM|
^did you know McAuliffe had blue eyes?...
|by Anonymous||reply 513||Last Saturday at 9:55 AM|
FX sold this series on a certain ratings guarantee to the advertisers. One thing networks don't want to do is give away free air time because the series didn't hit projections. F/V almost certainly will have the bottom drop out if it's already the lowest rated show on the network.
|by Anonymous||reply 514||Last Saturday at 10:23 AM|
I don't know a lot about Fosse/Verdon backstory, so I do like learning about them. But I am not enjoying the flipping between time periods.
"2,389 days until Joan McKracken's death." REALLY?
|by Anonymous||reply 515||Last Saturday at 10:41 AM|
I wanna know who LMM really is. Not when he's acting, promoting, and kissing ass. His wife looks bitchy. I just know he's gay.
|by Anonymous||reply 516||Last Saturday at 12:22 PM|
That IS who he really is and that is what he really does.
|by Anonymous||reply 517||Last Saturday at 1:03 PM|
Williams will win the Emmy and The Golden Globe. She is this year's Jessica Lange. I predicted right here that Lange would win 5 minutes after the pilot of American Horror Story Murder House" ended.
|by Anonymous||reply 518||Last Saturday at 1:12 PM|
Mary Ann Niles became the ultimate Broadway gypsy, appearing in many Broadway choruses from the 1950s through Ballroom in 1978. She was beloved by her colleagues and even cast by Donald Saddler as one of Nanette's young "friends" in No No Nanette at the tender age of 48.
She died in 1987. I wonder if Bobby continued to pay her a hefty alimony through all of those years?
|by Anonymous||reply 519||Last Saturday at 1:15 PM|
Agreed. Michelle is deservedly a lock for this year's Emmy.
She's amazing in this and it was very smart of her to take on the project.
|by Anonymous||reply 520||Last Saturday at 1:16 PM|
Ann Reinking muscles her way through I'm a Brass Band like a tread less tank. It really makes you appreciate the fluidity of Verdon.
|by Anonymous||reply 521||Last Saturday at 1:36 PM|
I agree, R515, the seemingly random shuffling of time periods detracts from the propulsion of the story. Just as I'm getting invested in the plot, the scene shifts to 20 years later.
I don't care how the book is arranged, this is a mistake.
|by Anonymous||reply 522||Last Saturday at 2:04 PM|
I don't so much mind the time shifts but the scene titles are totally confusing and unhelpful. And Gwen's look doesn't change much (either in real life or on the series) so her hairdos and costumes also are no clear indication of the period.
|by Anonymous||reply 523||Last Saturday at 2:11 PM|
That's part of my problem with the setup, R523. It takes me out of the show to have to study the hair and clothing to decide where the scene fits into the timeline, and sometimes the only thing I have to go on is Sam's hairpiece.
|by Anonymous||reply 524||Last Saturday at 2:15 PM|
|by Anonymous||reply 525||Last Saturday at 2:45 PM|
[quote] I predicted right here that Lange would win 5 minutes after the pilot of American Horror Story Murder House" ended.
Amazing, just amazing. You are so smart!
|by Anonymous||reply 526||Last Saturday at 3:11 PM|
[quote]Has Michelle ever won anything? It seems she’s one of these actresses who’s always nominated but never can actually win.
|by Anonymous||reply 527||Last Saturday at 3:17 PM|
I looked for "Damn Yankees" on streaming, and it isn't available. Shame -- it would've been nice to see it with Fosse/Verdon on now. Who was the Gwen Verdon character in All That Jazz?
(For the theatre queens here... I looked for DY on streaming and it isn't available . Shame -- it would've been nice to see it with F/V on now. Who was the GV character in ATJ?)
|by Anonymous||reply 528||Last Saturday at 4:39 PM|
R528 - the Leland Palmer character
|by Anonymous||reply 529||Last Saturday at 4:46 PM|
Shame they really undercast Joan McCracken with Susan Misner, who’s likeable but in no way gives us any sense of what a fascinating performer McCracken was.
|by Anonymous||reply 530||Last Saturday at 4:49 PM|
I don't mind time shifting but I agree they don't really do much with the makeup and hair to distinguish them that much.
I was watching one scene and didn't realize it was still in the 50s. I thought it was the 80s.
|by Anonymous||reply 531||Last Saturday at 4:50 PM|
thanks, r528. I saw Leland Palmer in Pippen.
|by Anonymous||reply 532||Last Saturday at 4:52 PM|
Leland Palmer makes Glenn look positively fetching, doesn't she? A compliment, no?
|by Anonymous||reply 533||Last Saturday at 5:19 PM|
[quote]Prince gave Nicole a job in Phantom but he never said anything about him.
That might be because he'd been dead for several months by the time Phantom opened.
|by Anonymous||reply 534||Last Saturday at 5:20 PM|
Nicole was always way too short to have a successful career as a dancer. So she didn't
|by Anonymous||reply 535||Last Saturday at 5:24 PM|
Dear Leland Palmer. She could always kick her legs in the air higher than anyone.
|by Anonymous||reply 536||Last Saturday at 5:28 PM|
.....and Mary Ann
|by Anonymous||reply 537||Last Saturday at 5:35 PM|
Anyone who can’t appreciate Michelle’s beach scene knows nothing of the craft of acting, its complexity and the raw and honest application of technique so that none of it is visible. She is giving a master class. Engrave the Emmy now.
|by Anonymous||reply 538||Last Saturday at 5:38 PM|
You Reinking haters are nuts. And to check have gotten a copy of the 'Charity' house camera video, going to watch and check her out
|by Anonymous||reply 539||Last Saturday at 5:42 PM|
and Mary Ann...
|by Anonymous||reply 540||Last Saturday at 5:49 PM|
Our friends just got together and had a good laugh watching you at the Academy Awards on YouTube. We especially loved your expression at the end, like "I nailed it". Well, yes, you nailed it, all right.
|by Anonymous||reply 541||Last Saturday at 6:13 PM|
[quote]Anyone who can’t appreciate Michelle’s beach scene knows nothing of the craft of acting, its complexity and the raw and honest application of technique so that none of it is visible. She is giving a master class. Engrave the Emmy now.
And the scene where Gwen sees the wife for the first time in the rehearsal studios, she ran the gamut, embarrassed she was fucking her husband, shock the wife was so bad in condition she couldn't stand and all the while try not to be noticed and wanting to watch their interaction.
|by Anonymous||reply 542||Last Saturday at 6:18 PM|
r538, if a performance requires knowledge of the craft of acting in order to be appreciated, then it isn't that good.
|by Anonymous||reply 543||Last Saturday at 6:18 PM|
I watched some of Damn Yankees and Gwen was shockingly thin, and so was Fosse in Who's Got the Pain. Maybe they were on the Hollywood movie diet.
|by Anonymous||reply 544||Last Saturday at 7:50 PM|
How did you like Tab Hunter, r544?
|by Anonymous||reply 545||Last Saturday at 7:51 PM|
heres a link for the full movie Damn Yankees.
|by Anonymous||reply 546||Last Saturday at 7:57 PM|
R545 He stinks and has zero presence. As with every film he made
|by Anonymous||reply 547||Last Saturday at 7:58 PM|
Why didn't Gwen make more movies after Damn Yankees? She really didn't start doing movies again until the '80s.
|by Anonymous||reply 548||Last Saturday at 7:58 PM|
Because the 1950s was not into quirky looking leading ladies, r548.
|by Anonymous||reply 549||Last Saturday at 8:00 PM|
Interesting note about Damn Yankees....with the exception of Tab Hunter, the entire cast was the original Broadway cast.
|by Anonymous||reply 550||Last Saturday at 8:03 PM|
As noted many times above, R548, Gwen had a face built for the last row of the theater. She was also not the greatest actress and her voice was pretty hard to take, even in the 50s.
|by Anonymous||reply 551||Last Saturday at 8:09 PM|
It's interesting to look at All that Jazz after seeing Joan McCracken and see how Fosse filmed Jessica Lange to look like her, even though Lange looks little like McCracken. I remember at the time the film came out that there was a big profile of Fosse in, I think, Film Comment. I can't find it online, but one of the things that sticks with me is that Gwen Verdon said something about how Fosse never got over Joan McCracken dying so young on him--as if he hadn't left her. Fosse was such a messy head case, I can believe it.
McCracken clearly had a strong affect on the men in her life. Jack Dunphy claimed that if she hadn't left him, he'd have stayed on the straight and narrow and never have ended up with Truman Capote for 30 years. Ummm, sure dude.
|by Anonymous||reply 552||Last Saturday at 8:19 PM|
R552 it was such an idealized portrait of McCracken yet he really socked it to Verdon in ATJ. BTW, the series will also show his attempted assault on Jennifer Nairn Smith as well as his attempted seduction of Cheryl Clark which resulted in him firing her from the Air-Rotica number which made a star of Sandahl Bergman.
|by Anonymous||reply 553||Last Saturday at 8:24 PM|
I thought I read in one of the Fosse biographies that Lange managed to fend off his advances so that she never slept with him, yet still got that part in All That Jazz.
|by Anonymous||reply 554||Last Saturday at 8:44 PM|
R554, she was already with him before she was in ATJ, so she must have slept with him at some point.
|by Anonymous||reply 555||Last Saturday at 8:49 PM|
R545 - I was only dipping into the film here and there to remind me of Verdon. I watched her numbers and of course Tab is in Whatever Lola Wants and Two Lost Souls, the latter where he even sings and dances.
|by Anonymous||reply 556||Last Saturday at 8:49 PM|
Wasn't Lange seeing Mikhail B at the same time as Fosse?
|by Anonymous||reply 557||Last Saturday at 8:52 PM|
R554, I don't think that's true. Jessica dated Fosse briefly, but chose Baryshnikov and had his baby. Nevermind that she was still married to Spanish painter, Paco Grande, at the time.
|by Anonymous||reply 558||Last Saturday at 9:11 PM|
Back in the day, the gossip was that Lange had taken a break from Baryshnikov to have an affair with Fosse. She certainly enjoyed her youth, didn't she!
And I hadn't realized that the "Angel" figure in "ATJ" was supposed to represent McCracken, I'd never heard that one before in all our discussions about the film. But it makes complete sense, now that someone's said it. As for the "Verdon" character in that film, I wouldn't say the portrayal is completely unkind. Yes, he's unkind about the woman's aging, but you can tell that every critical thing she says about Joe Gideon is true, if not erring on the side of kindness.
|by Anonymous||reply 559||Last Saturday at 9:13 PM|
R559, don't forget the moment where she said Airotica is the best thing he's ever done and then spits out "you son of a bitch."
|by Anonymous||reply 560||Last Saturday at 9:17 PM|
Fosse discusses McCracken at 5:10.
|by Anonymous||reply 561||Last Saturday at 9:22 PM|
Did he fuck Liza?
|by Anonymous||reply 562||Last Saturday at 9:27 PM|
Betty Comden said McCracken was the most special to Fosse of all the women and she was really "the one" as far as he was concerned. You can really hear it in that interview.
|by Anonymous||reply 563||Last Saturday at 9:29 PM|
R562, Everybody fucked Liza.
|by Anonymous||reply 564||Last Saturday at 9:31 PM|
I wonder if Julie Hagerty will be portrayer in the miniseries
|by Anonymous||reply 565||Last Saturday at 9:32 PM|
Sorry, I meant “portrayed.”
|by Anonymous||reply 566||Last Saturday at 9:32 PM|
Fuck you R564. And I told her to keep away from Lisa.
|by Anonymous||reply 567||Last Saturday at 9:33 PM|
Anyone have any stories about another fabulous gypsy, Cathryn Damon, known also also as Skipper Damon? She's most well known for playing Mary (Jessica's sister) on "Soap".
|by Anonymous||reply 568||Last Saturday at 10:14 PM|
I never saw the Airotica comment as socking it to Verdon, more that it was socking it to himself.
Years ago, the Airotica number was on YouTube and one of the male dancers in it (Gary, maybe?) was in the comments--mentioned Cheryl Clark refusing to go topless, Sandahl Bergmann liking he-man types (no wonder she ended up in Conan), also that the Airotica number was quite difficult--specifically the male duet--he brought in a Juilliard-trained dancer for it because of the lifts.
Funny thing about Fosse is that he was an amazing dancer, but he didn't have a connection with the audience on film--it must have been weird to be someone who wanted to be Fred Astaire and have the dancing talent, but not the star quality. Meanwhile, he was terrific at showcasing the talent of others--Liza Minnelli, Joel Grey, Gwen Verdon, Roy Scheider, Ann Reinking, Ben Vereen--every one of them gave their best performance under Fosse.
Though Joel Grey is an interesting case, he'd played the emcee on Broadway under another director--he said in an interview that Fosse didn't really want him--he wanted to play the part of the emcee himself. He told the studio it was either him or Joel Grey--no one else would do. The studio picked Grey.
|by Anonymous||reply 569||Last Saturday at 10:22 PM|
That first Mary Ann Niles/Bob Fosse clip opens up for a while focusing on their feet, which perhaps might have been Tommy Tune's inspiration for the "Famous Feet" number from "A Day in Hollywood/A Night in the Ukraine" (which was a fabulous number and a really fun show!).
|by Anonymous||reply 570||Last Saturday at 10:22 PM|
What were Fosse's reviews like when he played "Pal Joey" in a revival? I think it was at City Center around 1950 or so.
|by Anonymous||reply 571||Last Saturday at 10:24 PM|
R571, With Viveca Lindfors, my ex's cousin.
|by Anonymous||reply 572||Last Saturday at 10:36 PM|
It was a short run from May 29 to June 9, 1963.
|by Anonymous||reply 573||Last Saturday at 10:40 PM|
He got a Best Actor in a Musical Tony nomination.
|by Anonymous||reply 574||Last Saturday at 10:41 PM|
Bert Lahr won for Foxy.
|by Anonymous||reply 575||Last Saturday at 10:43 PM|
Emmy nominations for both Williams and Rockwell. Williams will moreover win.
|by Anonymous||reply 576||Last Saturday at 10:46 PM|
You know, in these interviews, Fosse is better looking than Rockwell is in the tv movie and his hair isn't nearly the awful mess it looks like in the tv movie. Yes, he's balding, but it's still not the hideous combover they've given Rockwell. That wasn't nice. He's also a lot more charismatic than Rockwell. I can see why women found him attractive.
|by Anonymous||reply 577||Last Saturday at 11:02 PM|
Fosse would have looked cuter and younger when he was more mature without the goatee. You can still see the baby face there.
|by Anonymous||reply 578||Last Saturday at 11:09 PM|
I agree r577. And he seems more... joyful. Rockwell just comes across as joyless and pissed off.
|by Anonymous||reply 579||Last Saturday at 11:29 PM|
R571 - Lewis Funke in The New York Times wrote that Fosse conveyed the cynicism of the role but seemed to miss the bite and brittleness.
|by Anonymous||reply 580||Last Saturday at 11:33 PM|
The New York Times said...”Bad!”
|by Anonymous||reply 581||Last Sunday at 2:59 AM|
There are plenty of pictures of Fosse when he was older and his hair does look a mess. I think it was just very thin, very straight and stringy, and had no body, so whenever he let it grow just a bit, it got unruly.
|by Anonymous||reply 582||Last Sunday at 3:04 AM|
Hollywood Reporter article about the ratings.
|by Anonymous||reply 583||Last Sunday at 5:34 AM|
After Fosse fired Clark and hired Bergman for Airotica, he then tried to pimp her out to Daniel Melnick to try to get more money and time for the movie. Bergman told him that if he made the call, she would go back to LA that day and wouldn't complete filming. She was dating Andy Bew who was the inspiration for Don in ACL. Bew also dated Kelly Bishop.
|by Anonymous||reply 584||Last Sunday at 6:18 AM|
I’m watching All That Jazz again. I haven’t seen it since the early ‘80s. It’s seems even more self-indulgent now than it did then.
|by Anonymous||reply 585||Last Sunday at 7:50 AM|
Is Ann Reinking playing herself in All That Jazz?
|by Anonymous||reply 586||Last Sunday at 8:02 AM|
Was Ann Reinking seeing Fosse while she was married to Herbert Allen, who was infamously involved in that Cliff Robertson-David Begelman check writing movie studio scandal which a book was written about?
|by Anonymous||reply 587||Last Sunday at 8:12 AM|
Don't know who that was in R561 clip but she was terrific and that was a great interview.
|by Anonymous||reply 588||Last Sunday at 8:20 AM|
Reinking was more or less playing herself in All That Jazz. She supposedly did ask Fosse if he had to be so generous with his cock.
|by Anonymous||reply 589||Last Sunday at 8:25 AM|
R587, no that was after they had broken up. Reinking and Allen were allegedly introduced by Merv Griffin who loved having Reinking on his show and Allen was a huge investment banker so she made out well.
|by Anonymous||reply 590||Last Sunday at 8:25 AM|
I wonder if she went after the role of Lily in the awful film version of Annie but got saddled with Grace, instead.
|by Anonymous||reply 591||Last Sunday at 8:45 AM|
If this thread is going to continue to thread 2, could somebody please create it and put the link here before this one closes, because the search function on DL sucks.
|by Anonymous||reply 592||Last Sunday at 12:35 PM|
|by Anonymous||reply 593||Last Sunday at 12:42 PM|
I hope someone decides after "Fosse/Verdon" to do a full-length "Chita/Rita". Even though I don't think the two ladies interacted too much (other than Rita doing film versions that Chita created on stage), I think it could be a hoot. Of course Gerard Allesandrini's version in "Forbidden Broadway" is hootilicious.
|by Anonymous||reply 594||Last Sunday at 1:12 PM|
I’m with those who think there should be a separate thread for each episode. There are only 8 of them, after all.
|by Anonymous||reply 595||Last Sunday at 1:51 PM|
r595 second separate read on episode 2 did not even hit 100 replies, no need to perpetrate threads for every episode
|by Anonymous||reply 596||Last Sunday at 1:53 PM|
|by Anonymous||reply 597||Last Sunday at 1:55 PM|
Will anyone even be watching by episode 8?
|by Anonymous||reply 598||Last Sunday at 1:57 PM|
Gwen wasn't in "Bajour" - Chita was.
New Girl in Town
|by Anonymous||reply 599||Last Sunday at 1:58 PM|
I will. I'm enjoying it.
|by Anonymous||reply 600||Last Sunday at 2:02 PM|
|by Anonymous||reply 601||Last Sunday at 2:03 PM|