How did she have so much control over KC? Why does she seem to have so much staying power in the media despite not putting out memorable music or other product of her own?
The mystery of Courtney Love
|by Anonymous||reply 274||Last Saturday at 11:10 AM|
It was all the chanting she did...........
|by Anonymous||reply 1||04/06/2019|
In the words of Patti Smith, they were 'just kids' .......
|by Anonymous||reply 2||04/06/2019|
well she really isn't relevant in 2019.
|by Anonymous||reply 3||04/06/2019|
I saw Courtney perform at a small venue in the LA area a few years ago. I got there early, when the place was practically empty, and there she was warming up with her band, unlit to the point of practically in the dark, with no one paying attention. Took me a minute to realize it was her. She was semi-singing something very 60s-sounding, psychedelic-trippy. Eventually she slowly collapsed to the floor, still clutching the mike (the motion seemed deliberate). It was quite a moment to witness, and I said, nobody but me was watching. Later she bounded onstage and rocked out! Anyhoo, that's my lil story.
|by Anonymous||reply 4||04/06/2019|
We see a pattern of domination and control in these older fish who latch onto young rockers. Yoko Ono was older than John Lennon too.
|by Anonymous||reply 5||04/06/2019|
I think the media and wider public give you a bit of a pass if you are truly iconic.
|by Anonymous||reply 6||04/06/2019|
Kurt was a feel sorry for me wimp. He wanted CL to control him. But, as the saying goes, be careful what you wish for. She was over domineering and along with a overwhelming persona. He broke apart due to the obvious mental issues AND living with HER! She didnt kill him outright, but she helped kill his spirit.
|by Anonymous||reply 7||04/06/2019|
How cool that you apparently were close friends with them, R7
|by Anonymous||reply 8||04/06/2019|
At 1st it was...not so much now.
|by Anonymous||reply 9||04/06/2019|
Didn't she show up on Empire for a few episodes??
|by Anonymous||reply 10||04/06/2019|
Her music holds up.
|by Anonymous||reply 11||04/06/2019|
She did put out memorable music, OP. Live through this and celebrity skin were both great and so was pretty on the inside.
|by Anonymous||reply 12||04/06/2019|
she has talent
|by Anonymous||reply 13||04/06/2019|
Frances Bean says she's buried the hatchet with her mother. She says Courtney can be a great mother at times, but is a trainwreck at other times, so she's just selective when she allows Courtney to be around her. Frances requested to be emancipated from Courtney when she was 16.
|by Anonymous||reply 14||04/06/2019|
White trash incarnate.
|by Anonymous||reply 15||04/06/2019|
Murder for hire.
|by Anonymous||reply 16||04/06/2019|
Well-connected, sinister, and would do anything for power and money. Jeffrey "Lolita Express" Epstein had all of her contact information and phone numbers in his little black book, making me wonder if she procured young girls for him and his perverted crew of millionaires.
|by Anonymous||reply 17||04/06/2019|
She has talent. Her music is incredibly good. Her acting is not horrible, when she puts the effort in. She has star quality and presence. Seeing her live was electric. Doesnt mean I would want to be married to her or be her daughter!
|by Anonymous||reply 18||04/06/2019|
r17 = Bible Humping 50 Year Old MidWestern Nubian Incel Schizophrenic LSA Frau
|by Anonymous||reply 19||04/06/2019|
I saw her in the late 90's during her Celebrity Skin album and thought she was awful. She barely performed, maybe 40 minutes but was babbling throughout about hating cops. A complete waste of my time.
|by Anonymous||reply 20||04/06/2019|
Kurt wrote the first Hole album & Billy Corgan the 2nd. Love is really not talented. She is a manipulative witch however.
|by Anonymous||reply 21||04/06/2019|
R19 = Courtney Love, or an ignorant fucktard who debates such incendiary matters such as "RuPaul's Drag Race."
|by Anonymous||reply 22||04/06/2019|
I think she totally masterminded Nirvana. Kurt had some ambition, but like the other two he was introverted, unsophisticated and content to play little clubs for his friends, then get high.
She saw some talent, schmoozed with the right people, charmed their way in, negotiated She's no dummy.
She deserves her share of the credit.
|by Anonymous||reply 23||04/06/2019|
R23 ? Nevermind pre-dated Courtney
|by Anonymous||reply 24||04/06/2019|
She may be trashy and annoying but i'll give her credit for her ambition. The same kind of i'll-do-ANYTHING hunger for fame and success that J.Lo and Madonna had, but she somehow managed it without their conventional beauty and an even worse singing voice than those two. As well as coming from nothing (I think she was actually homeless or a ward of the state as a kid).
She was great in the Larry Flynt movie though. And as someone who grew up with that music, i'd still rather listen to 'Live Through This' or 'Celebrity Skin' than any Nirvana or Pearl Jam album. Her lyrics are more poetic, her screams more primal and convincing, and there's a more sardonic, mischievous tone to Hole's music that set them apart from their more maudlin peers (Soundgarden, PJ Harvey, L7, etc.).
I remember that "I went to school in Olympia" song about how everyone from that city "fucks the same". LOL. She was also the first one to call out Harvey Weinstein publicly in 2004 or so but nobody wanted to listen to her.
|by Anonymous||reply 25||04/06/2019|
I forgot about that, Its true about Weinstein! She has some balls, I give her that.
|by Anonymous||reply 26||04/06/2019|
Everybody loves to watch the antics of a train wreck, hot mess, Cluster B clusterfuck. Remember her barging in on Madonna’s interview and babbling gibberish until she just fell right off her chair and sprawled around on the floor?
|by Anonymous||reply 27||04/06/2019|
I guess R21 was in the room with Kurt and Corgan when they wrote those albums.
|by Anonymous||reply 28||04/06/2019|
I liked "Doll Parts." She's not afraid to say something. She was "warning" women about Harvey Weinstein back in 2005.
|by Anonymous||reply 29||04/06/2019|
|by Anonymous||reply 30||04/06/2019|
I love Courtney Love. Hole produced great albums and she is one of the greatest lyricists pop has ever produced. Can act too. I want my rock stars messy and talented like her. He is very interesting
|by Anonymous||reply 31||04/06/2019|
She had some natural talent. Unfortunately, drugs killed a lot of it and the intense scrutiny she was under helped.
She's crazy, but in her case I give her a pass. She was raised by wolves.
|by Anonymous||reply 32||04/06/2019|
Can't say I'd want to be in a relationship with her, but Hole made great albums in the 90s. Live Through This is as good as any Nirvana and her worst toss off is better than Corgan on a good day.
|by Anonymous||reply 33||04/06/2019|
Live Through This and Celebrity Skin are both really great.
|by Anonymous||reply 34||04/06/2019|
She has a great rock voice for a frau!
|by Anonymous||reply 35||04/06/2019|
R35 I wouldn't put her in the frau category.
|by Anonymous||reply 36||04/06/2019|
Courtney = Yoko
|by Anonymous||reply 37||04/06/2019|
The woman who gave her mom up for adoption was Paula Fox. Fun fact! They only met once, and they didn’t like each other.
|by Anonymous||reply 38||04/06/2019|
Courtney Love is Brenda Chenowith. There were many, many allusions to it. Same background, death of young husband, left with little girl. Seattle. Psychiatrist mother.
|by Anonymous||reply 39||04/06/2019|
Kurt told Amanda de Cadenet that Courtney was the best sex he'd ever had. I think that explains a lot.
|by Anonymous||reply 40||04/06/2019|
She certainly look's like her father's daughter here (pre-surgery), rocking a Madona-inspired look.
|by Anonymous||reply 41||04/06/2019|
R40 ugly girls work for it.
|by Anonymous||reply 42||04/06/2019|
Tear the pedals off of YOU!
Make you tell the TRUTH!
|by Anonymous||reply 43||04/07/2019|
Met her. Insane crass negative manipulative name-dropping lying narcissist. Ignores everybody except those with money and power - sucks up to them shamelessly. Alcoholic now too.
|by Anonymous||reply 44||04/07/2019|
She got away with murder (by proxy).
I said this at R16, but not quite as explicitly enough.
|by Anonymous||reply 45||04/07/2019|
And here's who El Duce thought whacked Kurt, on Courtney's instructions: Allen Wrench.
|by Anonymous||reply 46||04/07/2019|
Better link than the one at R46.
|by Anonymous||reply 47||04/07/2019|
#44, she sounds just right for Datalounge!
|by Anonymous||reply 48||04/07/2019|
Her Plastic Surgeon was the true artist. She was quite unattractive before her first time under the knife.
|by Anonymous||reply 49||04/07/2019|
I think she’s pretty much forgotten- I never got her- I just thought she was mentally ill and occasionally felt sorry for her.
|by Anonymous||reply 50||04/07/2019|
She’s a fascinating woman. I wouldn’t get near her - she’d decimate me - but she’s interesting to observe from afar. Crazy, genius, balls-to-the-wall, destructive to everything. I think Kurt was attracted to her the way wimpy men are attracted to tornado women - she did all the things he couldn’t.
I wonder who she’s fucking now.
|by Anonymous||reply 51||04/07/2019|
I love her music. It got me through the worst time in my life then. It still holds up. She apparently had what Kurt needed and made him feel what he wanted to feel about himself.
|by Anonymous||reply 52||04/07/2019|
Wow! Super ugly.
|by Anonymous||reply 53||04/07/2019|
The whole Courtney murdered Kurt thing is utter BS, on the level of Alex Jones.
She's a manipulative cunt, but she's not a murderer.
|by Anonymous||reply 54||04/07/2019|
When she laughs, you can see her face collapse into all the crevices where bone and cartilage used to be. They must have hauled away a pound of flesh.
|by Anonymous||reply 55||04/07/2019|
She doesn't even look like the same person.
|by Anonymous||reply 56||04/07/2019|
I think she looked her best in the late 90s.
|by Anonymous||reply 57||04/07/2019|
Talented. Hole was signed before Nirvana. I would never, ever want to meet her. Toxic and mentally ill.
|by Anonymous||reply 58||04/07/2019|
Here’s a link to an interview she did with Rollerderby back in the day.
|by Anonymous||reply 59||04/07/2019|
Here’s my favorite snippet and it probably explains a few things. (Even then you can feel the mental illness jumping off the page):
“COURTNEY: I have a tip! I lost 40 pounds, and I have a real tip> I was fat from 14 to 24. When you’re fat like I was – which is five feet, eight inches and 150 to 170 pounds – you do not get to fuck the boys you want to fuck. Right? Right? Lisa: Perhaps. COURTNEY: The minute I got skinny and got a nose job and became photogenic, and all of a sudden I had a bidding war, and every boy I ever wanted, wanted me. Lisa: What’s your tip? COURTNEY: The thing you gotta do is – A! Stop counting calories! Okay? B! DO not get on a scale! ‘Cause lean muscle weighs more than fat. All right? I cut out FAT! That’s all you gotta do. FAT! No cheese. That’s it, Lisa. Period. NO CHEESE. I told this to KROQ, I told this to my nanny. People I tell this to lose ten, 30 pounds. STOP CHEESE. You know why the Orientals are not fat? ‘Cause they look on cheese as this gross, Western habit – it’s like sour milk LARD. They don’t want anything to fucking do with cheese. If you’re gonna eat cheese, take it out on a picnic, cut it up carefully, and really taste it – with wine or something. Don’t melt it on shit. And I lost 40 POUNDS by not eating cheese. And I even ate a little mayonnaise. All right. Skip the butter and skip the cheese and you will lose weight. I swear to God, Lisa. I was a fat girl my whole life. No one would fuck, and when they did they’d do things like fart in front of me. I told my friend that this guy farted in front of me, and you know what he said? Lisa: Nn-nn COURTNEY: He said, “Well, look at her; wouldn’t you fart in front of her?”
|by Anonymous||reply 60||04/07/2019|
Maybe she isn't the same person.
|by Anonymous||reply 61||04/07/2019|
R60, wow. Imagine if Madonna gave an interview like that. "Those orientals".
|by Anonymous||reply 62||04/07/2019|
LOL R60 I literally just cut that part and was about to paste it here.
|by Anonymous||reply 63||04/07/2019|
there was a sign saying ORIENTAL in my grocery store until 2012.
|by Anonymous||reply 64||04/07/2019|
She enjoyed her good fifteen minutes of fame after Kurt's death, because people were fascinated with whether she was responsible for it or not, and because she gave a very giood performance playing herself in The People vs. Larry Flynt. And her album with Hole after Kurt's death, Live Through This, was far better than anyone expected.
But no one wanted to work with her because she's a childish, irresponsible, needy trainwreck--the Nancy Spungen of the 1990s. You can;tt work with a BPD junkie, so the offers dried up almost immediately, and she could not get her act together. The news about how disgusted her daughter was with her did not help her image, either.
People have a fascination with attractive twentysomething girls who are train wrecks, and a few of them get their acts together somewhast and can stay on top for a while (cf. Angie Jolie, Kim Kardashian). But most of them don't understand why the offers stop coming and people stop being fascinated by them when they grow into their thirties and forties and still haven't cleaned up their acts: the world passed Courtney Love by, just as it also passed by Noni Ryder and Elizabeth Wurtzel (two other 90s BPD phenomena) and Paz de la Huerta (a 00s BPD poster child).
|by Anonymous||reply 65||04/07/2019|
That's actually Hole's 2nd and 3rd albums. Kim Gordon wrote the 1st.
|by Anonymous||reply 66||04/07/2019|
R65 Did the offers really stop coming though? It's not like she's a pariah these days (though that may have been true at one time). She recently got acting roles on shows like Revenge, Empire and Sons of Anarchy. You act as if she's unemployable but If HBO, ABC, and FOX are willing to cast her then it's not totally lost. I also saw her in the trailer for the new JT Leroy movie with Laura Dern and Kristen Stewart.
I agree she doesn't have the same public recognition she used to, but she's still at least able to get work. I think she also recently did some sold out runs with Lana Del Rey. And she'll always be able to tour off the generation that her music meant so much to - even less successful female 90s bands like Babes in Toyland, L7, Veruca Salt, and The Breeders are selling tickets for their reunions.
|by Anonymous||reply 67||04/07/2019|
R65/OP, a big reason she was in the media is because, a) she was married to Kurt Kobain b). She did drugs while she was pregnant AND PUBLICLY ADMITTED THIS TO A MAGAZINE c). she attempted to clean up her act in the mid/late 90s after Kurt's death. For a while, it looked like she would turn it all around. She even dated Ed Norton. Then, by the early 00s, she seemed back to her old self like nothing had changed. So she became a joke in the media after her failed turnaround.
|by Anonymous||reply 68||04/07/2019|
|by Anonymous||reply 69||04/07/2019|
[QUOTE] She even dated Ed Norton.
Oh, well all is forgiven then.
|by Anonymous||reply 70||04/07/2019|
Yeah it seemed she cleaned up her sct then fell further down then she was before - remember the picture of her letting some random street dude suck her titty? Mess.
|by Anonymous||reply 71||04/07/2019|
She was a train wreck on that roast of Pam Anderson that aired years ago.
|by Anonymous||reply 72||04/07/2019|
Courtney Love said that Pam Anderson lived in a trailer park in Malibu. I thought that was funny.
|by Anonymous||reply 73||04/07/2019|
Cobain was a junkie, that’s how.
|by Anonymous||reply 74||04/07/2019|
Here's a clip of Allen Wrench, sounding very cocky while being quizzed about whether he was involved in Cobain's murder. It reminds me of O.J. writing "If I Did It". Talk about chutzpah!
When he wasn't being filmed, Wrench supposedly admitted to killing Cobain ("off the record").
|by Anonymous||reply 75||04/07/2019|
Also, there was an interesting comment from a junkie saying that no junkie would ever commit suicide while they still had any drugs to take. There was a bag of smack found near Cobain's body.
They kill themselves after they've had all the drugs.
Wrench also gave a chilling description (in that clip at R75) describing how someone "might have" aimed the shogun blast from the mouth to strike the neck, destroying evidence of any neck injuries due to strangulation. A strange thing for someone to speculate if they weren't involved.
|by Anonymous||reply 76||04/07/2019|
Sorry, forgot to link the clip:
|by Anonymous||reply 77||04/07/2019|
It's interesting that Courtney is in the JT Leroy film, given she was one of the celebrity fans suckered into the fraud.
|by Anonymous||reply 78||04/07/2019|
she sounds tone deaf to me and her songwriting is amateurish. add to this her immature junkie put on persona in performance and I say she's a phony. a dangerous one.
|by Anonymous||reply 79||04/07/2019|
Bad URL Timestamp, R77.
|by Anonymous||reply 80||04/07/2019|
Not sure what you mean, R80. The link works fine for me. You just have to click on the volume icon (it is muted at first).
|by Anonymous||reply 81||04/07/2019|
I have a friend who ran in that circle back in the day. Everyone adored Kurt. Courtney was...not well liked.
|by Anonymous||reply 82||04/07/2019|
She may be the least mysterious, most transparent person in show business.
|by Anonymous||reply 83||04/07/2019|
What exactly was Kurt Cobains attraction?
|by Anonymous||reply 84||04/07/2019|
I am not OP.
|by Anonymous||reply 85||04/07/2019|
R84 Boyish, I think it's that 'broken wing' syndrome. Women and older gay men like to take on the brittle / broken young man and make him better. He was extremely good looking - more cute, then handsome. I also think he wasn't overly worldly when he was younger and women saw him as a project to make better of his potential.
|by Anonymous||reply 86||04/07/2019|
[quote]That's actually Hole's 2nd and 3rd albums. Kim Gordon wrote the 1st.
Funny how Gordon writes about Kurt and Courtney in her autobiography, but never mentions that little detail.
|by Anonymous||reply 87||04/07/2019|
Because she didn't write their first album. Courtney begged her to produce it because she wanted a female producer and also wanted Sonic Youth's street cred.
Kim has admitted in interviews that she only showed up two or three times and (unsurprisingly) Courtney already had her own ideas about what the album would sound like.
If you listen to it, it doesn't sound very 'produced' at all lol.
|by Anonymous||reply 88||04/07/2019|
I know she didn't, R88. Gordon really liked Cobain, but avoided Love. It's in her book.
I don't understand posters who make shit up, like, what's the point.
|by Anonymous||reply 89||04/07/2019|
There is no mystery about Courtney Love. Talented, narcissist, addict but most importantly
she is RICH AS ROCKEFELLER.
Money is how she survives and in her own way thrives.
|by Anonymous||reply 90||04/07/2019|
I really adored her when I was a kid in the '90s, and watching her struggles over the last two decades has been sad. I confess to wishing she'll put out just one final, well-written album; that she'll have just one more film performance recognized as great... but maybe her mental health is more important than that sort of thing.
|by Anonymous||reply 91||04/08/2019|
I like her.
|by Anonymous||reply 92||04/08/2019|
I remember the breaking MTV News when she punched Kathleen Hanna (was it at Lollapalooza?)
I liked Live Through This but Courtney was always such an uncool Top 40 version of the female musicians who were making the kind of stuff I listened to (I realize that makes me sound like an asshole, but I don't have a nicer way to put it).
|by Anonymous||reply 93||04/08/2019|
I follow ex Hole drummer Patty Schemel on IG. After she got booted from Hole she ended up in DTLA turning tricks to get drug money. It's amazing she managed to get her shit together. I'm glad for her and the Deal sisters. Her IG is kind of boring though; mostly hippyish, lesbian mommy stuff in Silver Lake.
|by Anonymous||reply 94||04/08/2019|
Some friends and I drove to Vancouver one day while at a conference in Seattle. None of us had been there before, so we went to bars and got tips on good places to eat.
Ended up at a seafood bar (great food and lovely owners), and who should waltz in with an entourage but Ms. Courtney Love herself.
Tried to pull rank and skip line but honey, the owners were not having IT, so she got pissed off and stormed out.
|by Anonymous||reply 95||04/08/2019|
The clip from R77 starts at 37:01 below:
|by Anonymous||reply 96||04/08/2019|
R94 I loved her documentary. I think it was called “Hit it hard”. She had a pretty happy ending
|by Anonymous||reply 97||04/08/2019|
"Hit So Hard"
|by Anonymous||reply 98||04/08/2019|
R98 Very good doco, even if you aren't into the music, or music per se, it is a great watch.
|by Anonymous||reply 99||04/08/2019|
she's crazy, a hot mess, and probably deadly toxic to be around, but i love her music (better than Nirvana sometimes) and she never gave a boring interview. Big fan here.
|by Anonymous||reply 100||04/08/2019|
She was rude to Madge. That's enough for me to hate her forever.
|by Anonymous||reply 101||04/08/2019|
Everyone’s rude to Madonna, Mary.
|by Anonymous||reply 102||04/08/2019|
^yes, because Madonna is always so nice and sweet to everybody...
|by Anonymous||reply 103||04/08/2019|
Courtney has a "cameo" in the Gucci ads with Lana Del Rey and Jared Leto. She plays the waitress starting at 00:15- Surprised she accepted that.
|by Anonymous||reply 104||04/08/2019|
Omg! Love looks terrible in the Gucci ad!
|by Anonymous||reply 105||04/08/2019|
Courtney and Madonna seem about similar levels of awfulness. And I say this as someone who liked them both. Pretty sure Madonna wanted to sign Hole to Maverick, but of course she went with Kurt's label.
|by Anonymous||reply 106||04/08/2019|
Madonna is GLOBAL bitches. Love is a nobody in comparison.
|by Anonymous||reply 107||04/08/2019|
R100 better than Nirvana no times.
|by Anonymous||reply 108||04/08/2019|
R107, Madonna is the stinky GLOBAL in my britches!
|by Anonymous||reply 109||04/08/2019|
Just reading her bio. Man. Fucked up childhood.
Elliott Smith's dad was a psychotherapist too.
|by Anonymous||reply 110||04/08/2019|
I love CL, love Hole. Nobody's Daughter (album) from 2010 is just as good as her earlier albums. My favorite songs from that album are Pacific Coast Highway, Samantha, Someone Else's Bed, Skinny Little Bitch. The whole album is fantastic.
|by Anonymous||reply 111||04/08/2019|
That was a decade ago r111. I don’t think she can do another album unless she goes mellow. I’d love to see her in many films but after seeing her in the Gucci ad, I think the plastic surgery has derailed her acting career.
|by Anonymous||reply 112||04/08/2019|
I like that she did something silly and meaningless like that R104. It's fun, and why the fuck not?
|by Anonymous||reply 113||04/08/2019|
She was amazing in The People V Larry Flynt.
|by Anonymous||reply 114||04/08/2019|
Nobody's Daughter got middling reviews, didn't have a proper music video for at least a year, sold around thirty thousand copies total. It was definitely not terrific. Never mind the fact it took her six years to produce and was composed largely of songs fans had heard for years before via YouTube.
I will credit Courtney for being a professional and touring the hell out of that album, but if it hadn't sucked, she wouldn't have needed to rely so heavily on the Live Through This and Celebrity Skin material in performance.
That said, I truly hope she does release another great record as a "fuck you" and flips all the haters off as she rides into the sunset.
|by Anonymous||reply 115||04/08/2019|
In the Gucci video, she looks-- trying to be kind-- bloated. Someone on this thread said she's an alkie now, and I was wondering, "How does an alcoholic stay so skinny?" I guess the answer is: she doesn't.
|by Anonymous||reply 116||04/08/2019|
She was also good in “Man On the Moon” surprised she doesn’t get more mention for that role.
|by Anonymous||reply 117||04/08/2019|
R116 To be fair she is 54, and she's gotten thicker in the middle over the last couple years. It happens. It's not usually so extreme looking... but then again, the uniform looks deliberately ill-fitting, plus the makeup is so harsh. It actually kind of reminds me of a late era Marianne Faithfull/ Debbie Harry look.
|by Anonymous||reply 118||04/08/2019|
Mystery? She's charismatic because she's a psychopath and unpredictable because she's an addict.
|by Anonymous||reply 119||04/08/2019|
Courtney Love wishes she were Debbie or Marianne.
|by Anonymous||reply 120||04/08/2019|
Another like for Courtney here.
|by Anonymous||reply 121||04/08/2019|
She’s so mean and doesn’t care about her fans but I love her so much.
She is my idol.
|by Anonymous||reply 122||04/08/2019|
R104 Courtney Love is very Amanda Lepore awkward in that advert.
|by Anonymous||reply 123||04/08/2019|
I saw her late last year and she looked amazing. I admire her ballsy attitude. Some men fear strong opinionated women. But I just love the bitch.
|by Anonymous||reply 124||04/08/2019|
I'm surprised she's still alive.
I really liked live through this and celebrity skin, but I must not be that big of a fan, because I could care less about her newer material
|by Anonymous||reply 125||04/08/2019|
I liked when she went to Wendy's and let that black homeless guy suck on her titties.
|by Anonymous||reply 126||04/08/2019|
That photo traumatized me for years, r126.
|by Anonymous||reply 127||04/09/2019|
|by Anonymous||reply 128||04/09/2019|
Her Little Bo Peep panties really bring the whole photo together.
|by Anonymous||reply 129||04/09/2019|
Courtney is just simply "lookin' out for the cookout" @ R128. Thoughtful lady sharing her jug.
|by Anonymous||reply 130||04/10/2019|
According to one of her biographies, Courtney and Kurt went to see Madonna's Truth or Dare together and became obsessed with her, I think Madonna pissed Courtney off because she didn't pay her any mind
Look at the 1995 MTV VMA interview and Courtney's desperate for Madonna's attention and to make an impact.
|by Anonymous||reply 131||04/10/2019|
Here's a story you won't hear anywhere else. Heard through a friend of a friend who was often an unwilling "assistant" to her antics in her mid/earlier days. This was late 90's.
She was in NYC for fashion week and was the temporary new face of Versace (remember that?) She was carted all over paparazzi-town and parties with Donatella in-arm and sat wherever she wanted at seat-arranged celebrity dinners, pissing off lots of people. She apparently wasn't into the fashion scene. When the few-days ordeal was over she had to get back to LA for something important, and our friend was frantically waiting early in the morning for her to arrive back from hanging out all night at Tom Ford's house so they could rush to the airport. She showed up at the last possible second in an original Tom Ford(?) dress, wrinkled to hell. They'd both been up for days and exhausted. They made the plane just in time, and as they took their seats Courtney hailed a first class attendant and told her she wanted "Two steak dinners and two pieces of chocolate cake." (for herself). After take-off our friend pulled a blanket over himself and promptly passed out. Mid-flight he woke up and looked over at Courtney, passed out in her window seat. Her face, and now-ruined dress, were covered in chocolate cake and steak juice. There was food *everywhere.* In one hand she had a piece of chocolate cake, and in the other a whole steak.
|by Anonymous||reply 132||04/10/2019|
WOW, R132. And to think this was during her “stable” years.
|by Anonymous||reply 133||04/10/2019|
I really like her.
|by Anonymous||reply 134||04/10/2019|
I think she's fabulous.
|by Anonymous||reply 135||04/10/2019|
I love it! R132. Had mutual friends with her at the end of the 90s. No idea if they’re still in touch. I know my friends were massive coke heads back then. Declined an invitation to meet her myself. I had an overwhelming sense that we’d end up in a fist fight. Not sure I would have come out on top.
|by Anonymous||reply 136||04/10/2019|
I think she's tremendous
|by Anonymous||reply 137||04/10/2019|
I always wondered if her relationship with Edward Norton was genuine or was strictly PR.
|by Anonymous||reply 138||04/11/2019|
I see what you did there in the thread title, OP
|by Anonymous||reply 139||04/11/2019|
Stipe still loves her.
|by Anonymous||reply 140||04/11/2019|
I still love her too, I just want her to DO stuff again.
|by Anonymous||reply 141||04/11/2019|
R141 I wrote to Courtney Love some years ago, with no reply. I suggested she write a musical version of the movie 'Teeth', using her music for the production. I thought it was a good idea, and it would have put her in Cyndi Lauper territory.
|by Anonymous||reply 142||04/11/2019|
That movie sounds wild, R142. I have to check it out!!!
|by Anonymous||reply 143||04/11/2019|
She lost that spark behind the eyes.
|by Anonymous||reply 144||04/11/2019|
Nirvana’s manager, Danny Goldberg, just came out with a book about Kurt to mark the 25th anniversary of his death. What’s funny (?) is Goldberg’s wife is Rosemary Carroll, who was Kurt and Courtney’s lawyer. Carroll had her suspicions about Kurt’s death and vocalized them to Tom Grant, the private investigator that Courtney hired right before Kurt was found dead.
|by Anonymous||reply 145||04/12/2019|
Is rosemary any relation to her mother? R145.
|by Anonymous||reply 146||04/12/2019|
She was always a fame whore, she did an interview in the 90s where she said she and Kurt Cobain went too see the 1991 Madonna documentary and Kurt said to her, supposedly, the whole film, "That's so you, you're just like Madonna".
She then claimed that everyone calls her "the Madonna of grunge rock" and she's gotten that "my whole life"
|by Anonymous||reply 147||04/12/2019|
She was obsessed with Madonna. She followed her career pattern: couldn't make it as an actress so she decided to use music as a tool for becoming famous. Learned very few chords on the guitar, spent more time in the photo studio than the recording studio. Once they achieved fame, they tried to go back to their original career choice: acting.
Both are very, very smart, but Madonna has way more discipline and self control.
|by Anonymous||reply 148||04/12/2019|
R147 is there a link to that?
|by Anonymous||reply 149||04/12/2019|
Sociopaths can easily achieve fame because they will (non-blinkingly) say and do things others will not.
|by Anonymous||reply 150||04/12/2019|
R146 - No relation that I’m aware of. Rosemary was previously married to Jim Carroll (author of Basketball Diaries).
|by Anonymous||reply 151||04/12/2019|
R149 it was a print interview in VOX or NME magazine
She did bring up her and Kurt seeing the Madonna Truth or Dare documentary at the infamous 1995 MTV Awards post interview, the one she crashed with Madonna and Kurt Loder before she took a dive
|by Anonymous||reply 152||04/12/2019|
R148 I don't know, EVERYONE whom Madonna has ever worked with goes on and on about her insane work ethic and how she's the first one in the recording studio and the last to leave and how she's a perfectionist with every little detail
People like David Foster, Babyface, Nile Rodgers etc
Even her estranged brother in his otherwise tell all book said that Madonna was a control and 24/7 work freak who never touched drugs and was obsessed with perfection, she would go over songs and choreography on her tours over and over again , she even fired Gene Kelly because he was hired to choreograph one of her tour sections and she didn't like his ideas, she lost her shit when the current that opened up her Girlie Show tour wouldn't open up the "right way" etc.
|by Anonymous||reply 153||04/12/2019|
I was watching live when she crashed that Madonna interview. It was riveting, out-of-control TV, the kind you don't often see. She was a hilarious hot mess at the height of her notoriety, and when she fell over, her legs went straight up in the air like a cartoon. Made Madge look like the Queen of England. I loved it. Kudos to Kurt for ignoring Madonna's pleas and inviting Courtney to take a seat. Let's see if I can find the clip. Ah, here it is - still a hoot.
|by Anonymous||reply 154||04/12/2019|
R151 now my mind us blown that someone married Jim Carroll. There really is lid for every pot.
|by Anonymous||reply 155||04/12/2019|
Shit, I'm always accidentally posting links in the "posted by" space. Anyhoo here's the clip:
|by Anonymous||reply 156||04/12/2019|
R156, thanks for that. Shit was BONKERS.
|by Anonymous||reply 157||04/12/2019|
I don't know...that collapse at the end looks kind of intentional.
|by Anonymous||reply 158||04/12/2019|
|by Anonymous||reply 159||04/12/2019|
When she first sits down, Courtney and Madonna acknowledge they've met and chatted before, and Courtney says "but we disagree on _______". Anyone able to catch what that was?
|by Anonymous||reply 160||04/12/2019|
Madonna tried to sign her to her record label, I wonder if that had something to do with it?
|by Anonymous||reply 161||04/12/2019|
R160, I think Courtney tells Kurt Loder, "I disagree with her A&R guy a little bit." She's talking bout Madonna's record company, Maverick. Then they start talking about Alanis Morrisette whom Madonna had recently signed to Maverick.
|by Anonymous||reply 162||04/12/2019|
Oh, I see. Now - when she's "apologizing" to Tabitha, who's the "psychopath" she's referencing, I wonder? Anyone know this backstory?
|by Anonymous||reply 163||04/12/2019|
Today marks the 25th anniversary of Hole's "Live Through This."
|by Anonymous||reply 164||04/12/2019|
I need to find the article, but within the past few years Courtney was asked to list her 50 obsessions and sex was number 1 and her daughter was number 2. I thought “yeah, she would totally prioritize getting laid over her own kid.”
|by Anonymous||reply 165||04/12/2019|
I think the original article is gone but here’s the recap...
|by Anonymous||reply 166||04/12/2019|
Madonna wanted to sign Hole to Maverick.
Courtney thought it would be so "cool" and raise her star power to snub Madonna and sign with Geffen.
Madonna signs and pushes Alanis who dominated the mid to late 90s while Courtney ended up trying to sue Geffen over something or other.
For years...years Courtney would bitch about Alanis in print and say, "that could have been me."
Love is nothing if not incredibly self-defeating.
|by Anonymous||reply 167||04/12/2019|
But doesn't that make her the realest, r167? Courtney is so flawed and impulsive and that's her appeal.
|by Anonymous||reply 168||04/12/2019|
It wasn't impulsive at all...it was incredibly calculated but not a smart move.
|by Anonymous||reply 169||04/12/2019|
Is the new Elizabeth Moss movie about Love?
|by Anonymous||reply 170||04/12/2019|
Yeah it seemed like professional jealousy when Courtney said "Alanis... there's some pipes" in the MTV altercation with Madge. Alanis had the type of sales Courtney dreamed of, by doing what Courtney did in a more prettily packaged way. But I never once saw Courtney say "that could have been me" in print... quotation marks are dangerous things.
|by Anonymous||reply 171||04/12/2019|
I'm sure she was jealous, but I think she was also a bit embarrassed that in much of the media, Alanis was representing women in rock 'as a group' (even though she doesn't really have 'rock' credentials and used pop producers for Jagged Little Pill). Courtney Love had been howling poetic lyrics over 'real', UGLY guitar distortion since the late 80s, and PJ Harvey a few years later, but it must have hurt to see Alanis get so much credit for watering down the groundwork they had laid (for the record I really like Jagged Little Pill) and become a cultural icon.
People started to market them all together as these 'angry women of the 90s' or 'rock chicks of the 90s' (this was all over MTV and VH1) but the faces were all these prissier singers like Fiona Apple and Alanis and Sheryl Crowe and Natalie Imbruglia and Shirley Manson.
I remember Sandra Bernhard did a stand up bit about the whiny, bathtub-dwelling Fiona Apple / Alanis generation and praised Courtney and Bikini Kill and co.. "Give me a real loud, badass, big-titted bitch of rock and roll." I'm guessing Courtney felt the same way. In addition to being classically jealous of course.
|by Anonymous||reply 172||04/12/2019|
R167 I believe Courtney was quoted as saying "The world isn't big enough for Madonna to be my boss."
|by Anonymous||reply 173||04/12/2019|
I still really, really, really want Madonna and Courtney to star in a remake of "Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?"
|by Anonymous||reply 174||04/12/2019|
One actual quote I remember is that is it easier to be her (Courtney), because no one wants to be her, but Madonna has lots of people wanting to be her.
|by Anonymous||reply 175||04/12/2019|
R60, that’s skizoprenia
|by Anonymous||reply 176||04/12/2019|
R60 She lost weight because of the metric fuck ton of Heroin she was taking. I seem to remember Michael Stipe saying " Thank God she put on weight , means she's sober."
|by Anonymous||reply 177||04/12/2019|
Kurt was gorgeous underneath the stubble and dirty hair. Frances Bean inherited his amazing blue eyes.
|by Anonymous||reply 178||04/13/2019|
She looks good with dark hair, I wonder why she never actually used it for a period of time. Could have gotten her less typecast acting roles.
|by Anonymous||reply 179||04/13/2019|
amy winehouse would have turned into courtney love if she didnt od
|by Anonymous||reply 180||04/13/2019|
R153 People like Madonna use an insane work ethic to make up for their lack of talent.
|by Anonymous||reply 181||04/13/2019|
madonna is very mediocre talent wise, she is good at marketing
|by Anonymous||reply 182||04/13/2019|
R181 oh God, here we go....
I actually have MORE respect for people that don't have insane amounts of talent and that work harder to get where they're at
Interesting though, how ALL Madonna's former producers go on and on about how much talent she has and what a great songwriter she is, Babyface for instance, even Streisand and Celine Dion's producer David Foster said the same thing in his autobiography about her
|by Anonymous||reply 183||04/13/2019|
R174 I would have been more interested in Feud if Ryan Murphy had cast those two as Bette and Joan.
|by Anonymous||reply 184||04/13/2019|
R184 like Madonna would ever do a TV show, she'll make a fortune (again) with her next tour
Courtney would, she was already on Empire
|by Anonymous||reply 185||04/13/2019|
R185 I guess you're right, too much risk and too little reward for someone like Madonna. But Courtney can act. I hope she gets another chance to really show off those talents.
|by Anonymous||reply 186||04/13/2019|
courtneys acting is legit,way better than madonna, who sucks at acting.
|by Anonymous||reply 187||04/13/2019|
Irrelevant. The young kids don’t even know who she is
|by Anonymous||reply 188||04/13/2019|
^ who cares what young kids think? They're morons.
|by Anonymous||reply 189||04/13/2019|
R188 Young kids LOVE Courtney LOVE!
See what I did there?
By the way, is that her real name or a stage name?
|by Anonymous||reply 190||04/13/2019|
There was a BI about her several years ago that she accosted some guy at the restaurant patio in LA and made a public scene screaming at him that "he gave her HIV". Make of that what you want. When it comes to Courtney Love, nothing would surprise me.
|by Anonymous||reply 191||04/13/2019|
It is pure luck Madonna didn't get HIV, since she slept with hundreds of men in NYC when she was a struggling unknown.
|by Anonymous||reply 192||04/13/2019|
R192 raises an interesting point. Perhaps she has that natural immunity to the virus.
Courtney Love is fascinating but I would avoid her like the plague in real life.
|by Anonymous||reply 193||04/13/2019|
R192 you know that for a FACT,? You were there? Amazing!
|by Anonymous||reply 194||04/13/2019|
"I always wondered if her relationship with Edward Norton was genuine or was strictly PR."
I suspect the latter, or that they were never more than platonic close friends, simply because of the lack of drama in the "break-up." That's just not the way it goes down with Courtney.
|by Anonymous||reply 195||04/13/2019|
R194 I've read biographies and seen documentaries about her. People like Camile Barbone and Steven Bray discuss how promiscuous she was. He even said she was seeing 12 other people behind his back.
|by Anonymous||reply 196||04/13/2019|
I've been watching "Montage of Heck" about Cobain... He and Courtney love were both DEFINITELY molested as kids right?
|by Anonymous||reply 197||04/13/2019|
Why do you say that?
|by Anonymous||reply 198||04/13/2019|
I recall reading Lenny Kravitz laughing about her being naked in their building's elevator.
|by Anonymous||reply 199||04/13/2019|
God this site is so pathetic now. None of you know anything or have been anywhere.
As I shared many years ago: Love & Norton were real. She kept the mattress she and Kurt had shared through her time with Ed. His medicine cabinet was stocked with Viagra.
Why don't you people leave fucking rural Tennessee and move somewhere interesting? Why are you even commenting on a gossip site when you have no information or insight to share because you've never met anyone?
|by Anonymous||reply 200||04/13/2019|
[quote]As I shared many years ago: Love & Norton were real.
I can confirm that Ed was looking for a film that the two could do together. He ever arranged screen tests for the two of them (I saw one tape).
[quote] I recall reading Lenny Kravitz laughing about her being naked in their building's elevator.
Kravitz and Kidman were an item, briefly.
|by Anonymous||reply 201||04/13/2019|
R197 Without a shadow of a doubt. She was a stripper at 13 and he was drawing pornography at school at 7.
|by Anonymous||reply 202||04/14/2019|
I mean her dad was a road manager for the Grateful Dead and legally lost custody of her for giving her LSD when she was 4 years old.
She was given away by her mother, arrested for stealing a KISS t shirt when she was 8 (put in Juvenile hall) and I think eventually was either homeless as a teen or a ward of the state.
Kurt sexually assaulted a mentally disabled girl in his teens to lose his virginity.
So both of them obviously have some issues stemming from their childhoods... It's a miracle she's still alive really. I recall on her 40th birthday she tried to kill herself and was taken to hospital on a gurney. All the papers had started writing her obituary, the NYT one actually leaked at the time.
|by Anonymous||reply 203||04/14/2019|
What did Courtney Love think of PJ Harvey back in the day?
|by Anonymous||reply 204||04/14/2019|
Kurt was a beautiful, greek like featured specimen on the outside,and all rot and mold on the inside.
|by Anonymous||reply 205||04/14/2019|
[quote]It is pure luck Madonna didn't get HIV, since she slept with hundreds of men in NYC when she was a struggling unknown.
Wonder if she ever sucked anonymous cock through the hole in a bathroom stall in a public toilet?
|by Anonymous||reply 206||04/14/2019|
I think the person she tells Tabitha is a psycho is Amanda de Cadenet
|by Anonymous||reply 207||04/14/2019|
Courtney always insisted she was a virgin when she was a stripper in Alaska. It's such a crazy statement that i think it might be true.
|by Anonymous||reply 208||04/14/2019|
In the Kurt & Courtney doc her father comes across as a POS. He was positive Courtney had Kurt killed.
|by Anonymous||reply 209||04/14/2019|
Frances's description of Courtney's "mothering" characterizes her as having Narcissistic Personality Disorder with a twist of Borderline Personality Disorder.
I'm glad Frances is not beholden to her mother's instability and toxicity.
|by Anonymous||reply 210||04/14/2019|
I remember this whole sequence of events vividly. I lived in NYC and every other week she was on the local news for this stuff. I think the apartment was in Soho or the NYU area. It felt like the local press just camped out on the street waiting for her to have another public breakdown. Once she was sitting in the open window calmly playing guitar for them and THAT was on the news. This, I recall, wasn't reported as a suicide as much as an attempt to get out of going to court for being arrested for assaulting a fan, like she cut herself and faked it, but didn't, or something. She was supposed to appear in court for being arrested for assaulting a fan at an unannounced show at Don Hill's, which had been all over the covers of the papers weeks prior, and was the same day she was in the news for letting a homeless guy suck her tits at the Union Square Wendy's... aye-yi-yi it just went on and on...
|by Anonymous||reply 211||04/14/2019|
R204, I remember Courtney Love (and Madonna) saying she really liked PJ Harvey's music. Kurt also listed Dry (Harvey's debut) as one of his favorite albums).
|by Anonymous||reply 212||04/14/2019|
That's great to know, r212.
|by Anonymous||reply 213||04/14/2019|
r213 It's nice seeing you on DL, Polly Jean.
|by Anonymous||reply 214||04/14/2019|
R213, I also remember Courtney saying she didn't really consider Liz Phair in the same category as PJ Harvey, or even the riot girls (like L7, for instance). The way the quote reads, it comes off like she's saying Phair isn't good enough to be compared to those types. Which is complete BS. Sure, Phair isn't punk or avant garde like those women, but her debut was better than any of those by Harvey or the riot girls.
|by Anonymous||reply 215||04/14/2019|
R203, as the only KISS fan on DL, I have to be a pain in the ass and correct you. There's no way Courtney shoplifted a KISS T-shirt when she was 8, because that would mean she did so in 1972. KISS were still working on the lineup of the original band that year, never mind being famous enough to have their own T-shirts in stores. It is literally impossible. If she was 12 when she stole the shirt, that would make more sense, as they finally broke through in 1975 and the following three years they were one of the most famous bands in the world.
Everything else about her is plausible. However, the story about Kurt molesting a "retarded" girl (as he put it in "Montage of Heck") was sort of discredited by some of his close pals as being part of the twisted persona that he rather enjoyed cultivating.
|by Anonymous||reply 216||04/14/2019|
R216 thanks for the correction, I may have been misremembering the age. I think it was in the Poppy Z. Brite book about her.
|by Anonymous||reply 217||04/14/2019|
This one is STILL AT IT. Woman, have you no pride whatsoever?
|by Anonymous||reply 218||04/14/2019|
R203 Love her or hate her, she really has had the most unusual background and life.
|by Anonymous||reply 219||04/14/2019|
R216 Per Wikipedia, she was arrested for shoplifting a tshirt from Woolworth's at age 14.
She was born in 1964, so in 1978 she would have been 14. Out of boredom (and procrastination) I tried to confirm if it was indeed a KISS tshirt but no luck. Per Wikipedia, confirmation might be in a 2006 The Times UK article but I cant find it on my phone; citation:
Iley, Chrissy (October 22, 2006). "Courting disaster". The Times. London.
|by Anonymous||reply 220||04/14/2019|
she's disgusting - imagine how awful her stretched out vag must look - and smell
|by Anonymous||reply 221||04/14/2019|
I wonder how menopause will affect her. Will she get crazier or will she calm her tits?
|by Anonymous||reply 222||04/14/2019|
Why would it be stretched out? Having sex with different guys instead of one guy doesn’t magically make their dicks the size of a baby’s head or something.
|by Anonymous||reply 223||04/14/2019|
Yes, Courtney was neglected by her flaky hippie parents and her revolving door of stepparents, and she was picked on at school, but once you’re grown, you need to take responsibility and get the help you need to become a decent person instead of using your bad childhood as a 007 license that gives you carte blanche to injure other people at whim.
|by Anonymous||reply 224||04/14/2019|
Her mom was a Psychotherapist.
So was Elliott Smith's dad.
Starting to think Freudians shouldn't have kids.
|by Anonymous||reply 225||04/14/2019|
Elliott Smith didn’t live with his dad till he was 14, so I think any formative-years damage can probably be blamed on his mom and/or stepdad.
|by Anonymous||reply 226||04/14/2019|
R226 definitely the stepdad. He wrote songs about the guy that make my skin crawl. Apparently he accused the guy of sexual abuse shortly before he died.
As for Courtney according to Wikipedia "At age nine, a psychologist noted that she exhibited signs of autism."
Which...to be fair...might explain a few things.
|by Anonymous||reply 227||04/14/2019|
distorted feedback guitar and screaming into the mic does not an artist make. She can't write a decent melody so she's never had a hit song.
|by Anonymous||reply 228||04/14/2019|
She has a couple of platinum albums, though.
|by Anonymous||reply 229||04/14/2019|
Celebrity Skin was a hit.
Also in retrospect clearly about Harvey Weinstein.
|by Anonymous||reply 230||04/15/2019|
Yeah, he was the only sleazy producer Hollywood ever came up with.
|by Anonymous||reply 231||04/15/2019|
R231 The only one she publicly slandered.
|by Anonymous||reply 232||04/15/2019|
R232 Don't look at us! We didn't know anything at all.
|by Anonymous||reply 233||04/15/2019|
I just object to the idea Celebrity Skin is "about" Harvey. I find it's about Courtney's personal journey and the pretty/ugly dichotomy Hole was working with from the beginning.
|by Anonymous||reply 234||04/15/2019|
R234 I agree
|by Anonymous||reply 235||04/15/2019|
As the biggest Nirvana fan ever, I have very mixed feelings about CL. Do I think she killed him? Eh. No. But I wouldn't be surprised if she did. I also fully accept he most likely offed himself.
If anyone doubts he helped her write Live Through This? I just can't believe it. Total Nirvana songs. And the fact that Pretty On the Inside and Celebrity Skin are so sonically different makes it even more apparent. She can hardly play a guitar.
I do think Live Through This is a masterpiece and whether it was Kurt or her? Job well done.
|by Anonymous||reply 236||04/15/2019|
Who produced Live Through This? I heard she wrote Doll Parts before she even met Kurt, but you never know what rumors to believe.
On one hand, I think it is incredibly misogynistic to give Kurt all (0r any) credit for the album. But I don't it was much to do with her. Maybe the other co-writers, producers, musicians?
On a side note, I don't see grunge holding up well over time, It was so dark and depressing I hardly ever listen to it anymore.
|by Anonymous||reply 237||04/15/2019|
LOL. A Nirvana fan is mocking Courtney's guitar skills. Courtney focused on changing Hole's sound to keep it refreshing on every album that's why "Pretty on the Inside" and "Celebrity Skin" sound different from Live Through This. All these Nirvana fans are delusional they can't even give Courtney credit on her damn album just because it's better than any Nirvana album and its lyrics didn't suck too.
|by Anonymous||reply 238||04/15/2019|
I don't think Live Through This sounds anything like Nirvana.
|by Anonymous||reply 239||04/16/2019|
If Live Through This sounded like Nirvana it would be a much worse album...
The only similarities I can think of are the fact that it's 'melodic' rock (see Pearl Jam, Smashing Pumpkins, Sonic Youth, and literally every other band at the time), and they use the loud-quiet-loud structure on certain songs. Which was pioneered by the Pixies, not Kurt Cobain (as he admitted).
The guitars sound different (Hole's have that crystallish, murkier, blurred sound combined with the traditional strummed chords as they had 2 guitarists, Nirvana's was more traditional clean Butch Vig distortion with big solo lines). The lyrics are much better than Kurt's moody sarcastic teenager fodder. The perspective is very female, and the songwriting is FAR less traditional than the four-chord Nirvana formula (look at the dissonant melodies and sidewinding structure on a song like 'I Think That I Would Die', the biblical chant before 'Credit in the Straight World'). It's both heavier and softer as an album than anything Nirvana released, and plays with that messy/delicate dichotomy. Courtney has used similar lyrical themes in all her work before or since (like the references to milk and motherhood).
|by Anonymous||reply 240||04/16/2019|
At the time, I dismissed her as a hot mess who got to where she did because everyone was in love with her tits, mesmerized by her NPD antics.
I didn't think she was as compelling musically as Kim Deal, The Slits, PJ Harvey, Kim Gordon, and Lauryn Hill.
I'll give LTT another listen to see if it holds up.
|by Anonymous||reply 241||04/16/2019|
I don’t think she has very much in common with Kim Deal or Lauryn Hill. Why not compare her to Jane’s Addiction or Sebadoh or something?
|by Anonymous||reply 242||04/16/2019|
R237, I don't think the vast majority of people accusing Cobain writing the songs are being misogynist. Many of those same people listened to a lot of the indie/alternative music from that time. Think about it--when has anyone ever accused Liz Phair, PJ Harvey, Kathleen Hanna, Alanis Morissette, Tori Amos, etc. of having ghost writers? Never. Because it's not the least bit believable and anyone who made the accusation would be looked at as an idiot. With Courtney Love, it's different. She is notoriously someone who will do whatever she can to get any kind of attention to achieve stardom. She seems like the type that would steal your money when you aren't looking.
|by Anonymous||reply 243||04/16/2019|
Hole was signed before Nirvana. Before she knew Cobain. She has also been rumored to be the co writer of songs like Heart shaped box. She was a homely, fat girl thrown away by her family. She worked as a stripper to support herself. Her rage and anger, her point of view, comes through clearly in Hole's music.
Cobain both overdosed on heroin and blew his brains out. He killed himself.
Love is problematic. But she's not untalented and she's not a killer.
|by Anonymous||reply 244||04/16/2019|
She killed her daughter's pets. She's a super gross woman and needs to die ASAP.
|by Anonymous||reply 245||04/16/2019|
Never-published details from Frances Bean's deposition in support of her temporary restraining order:
In December 2009, after a physical fight with her mother, Frances filed a restraining order against Love in LA superior court. Backed by testimony by her male nanny and others, the judge granted her request. Despondent over her relationship with Frances Bean, Courtney said, “It’s hard to understand what I did to make Frances treat me like this. We slept in the same bed till she was 14.” But the sealed deposition papers provide a look at Frances's harrowing life at the time.
• In a sworn statement to the court on December 10, 2009, Frances recalled accompanying her mother to the home of a former boyfriend, James Barber, years earlier. “She took me in a taxi to his house in the middle of the night, and from outside the house, in her bare feet, she screamed at him, threw rocks at the house, and threatened to burn his house down. His children were inside the house, but that did not stop my mother.”
• “My mother is obsessed with uncovering fraud and spends much of her day raging about the fraud that has been perpetrated on her and on me," her statement continued. "She incessantly rages about her many theories relating to the supposed incidences of 'fraud.' She slams doors, breaks things, stomps around the hotel or apartment and spends hours on the phone, yelling.”
• Love “has taken drugs for as long as I can remember. She basically exists now on...Xanax, Adderall, Sonata and Abilify, sugar and cigarettes. She rarely eats....She often falls asleep in her bed while she is smoking, and I am constantly worried that she will start a fire (which she has done at least three times) that will threaten our lives."
• According to the deposition, Love once threatened to jump off a balcony while her daughter watched.
• Frances further claimed that her cat died after getting entangled in piles of Etsy fabrics, boxes of paperwork, trash and other possessions, and that a dog died after swallowing a pile of Love’s pills. In addition to keeping Courtney away from Frances, Frances' grandmother and Frances' aunt, the restraining order also prevents Courtney from contact with Frances’s dog, Uncle Fester.
|by Anonymous||reply 246||04/16/2019|
People are just stupid, though. The rumor has been around that Kurt wrote Live through this despite evidence to the contrary.
Like no one believes Madonna writes or produces her own songs, despite what all her collaborators have said. Yet they believe Gaga and Adele "right l their own song" when they work with co-writers and co-producers.
|by Anonymous||reply 247||04/16/2019|
“Malibu” sounds to me like it was written by whoever was responsible for “Miss World,” “Doll Parts,” and whatever that song about Olympia was, and Kurt Cobain didn’t write “Malibu.”
|by Anonymous||reply 248||04/16/2019|
R246 No ones arguing she isn't a total psycho.
|by Anonymous||reply 249||04/17/2019|
Billy Corgan has stated that he wrote many of Hole's songs, and he was uncredited, but he says he forgives Courtney for it. Linda Perry wrote the songs on at least one of her most recent albums.
If you're a boyband or pop act who exists solely on looks or style, or if you have a beautiful voice, then it's expected you will have someone write your songs for you. But it you are supposedly a musician with a message to communicate, then you are expected to write your own damn songs, regardless of whether your face or voice is perfect.
|by Anonymous||reply 250||04/17/2019|
R250 I know he was heavily involved but Corgan actually was on Howard Stern some time in the last two years saying that despite his help, she's very undervalued and underrated as a musician.
Most of the Linda Perry songs were shelved for that album in the end. Only 'Letter To God' remains that was written by her, and she has two other songs she co-wrote with Courtney and Micko Larkin.
I don't think she's exactly a Stevie Wonder level musician, or a Joni Mitchell style sole-songwriter. And these days she really can barely play that guitar AT ALL (I saw her live a few years ago). She's admitted she needs help with her songs. But I think she's always had a good ear, good taste, and strong musical/melodic sensibilities. As well as being an amazing lyricist. Every Hole album has been a result of her vision and ideas, from their early messy noise punk, to the poppier years.
|by Anonymous||reply 251||04/17/2019|
Beyond vile what she has put Frances through. I cant even imagine.
|by Anonymous||reply 252||04/17/2019|
I think Billy has basically made the claim he wrote Malibu in its entirety. He's always been a credited co-writer on that song, but it seemed to me he was, in the last couple of years, hinting at having done much more.
|by Anonymous||reply 253||04/17/2019|
Frances and CL seem close again now? Will Frances ever be free?
|by Anonymous||reply 254||04/17/2019|
Courtney seems way more chill now, though, in this new #MeToo / Born this Way / Love trumps hate generation. I guess she finally realized it wasn't working for her emotionally or financially to be such a bitter person. She publicly made peace with Dave Grohl, among others... and suddenly acting opportunities opened up again as she began to release new solo music. I'm sure it's still a dark place inside that mind of hers, if she's not careful... and I wonder why her comeback has stalled again. But I'm glad she's not in the headlines for negative bullshit too much anymore. I hope her memoir, if she ever releases it, addresses both the devastation of Kurt's suicide and the conspiracy theories on her life.
|by Anonymous||reply 255||04/17/2019|
In R246's post, I was surprised to see Courtney was on Abilfy.
She's very smart...when she's lucid.
|by Anonymous||reply 256||04/17/2019|
"I think the media and wider public give you a bit of a pass if you are truly iconic."
Who are you talking about? Surely not Courtney Love. Nothing about her has ever been "iconic?" She was/is a trashy, toxic, train wreck personality, not unlike Roseanne Barr. That was her appeal; some people considered her unabashed, insane behavior interesting. Kurt Cobain was like that; he said it was "exciting" to be with somebody who would smash a glass on a table for no reason at all.
Kurt Cobain was weak. She ran ripshod over him and took control. And he rather liked that. It was similar to John Lennon and Yoko Ono; Lennon LIKED the fact that Yoko was the boss, the one who made the decisions. John Lennon, although infamous for getting physically violent and having raging tantrums, was essentially weak emotionally. Just like Kurt Cobain was.
Courtney Love achieved some success by glomming onto people with real talent and taking what she could from them. But she have never had any real talent at all, just a pathological desire to be noticed and be seen with the right people. Although she occasionally pops up in the news by doing or saying something crazy or stupid, she's essentially over now. Good fucking riddance.
|by Anonymous||reply 257||04/17/2019|
Abilfys for Schizophrenia isn't it?
|by Anonymous||reply 258||04/17/2019|
Also bipolar disorder.
|by Anonymous||reply 259||04/17/2019|
And delusional disorder. It sounds like she was suffering from it because she was obsessed with the "fraudsters".
|by Anonymous||reply 260||04/17/2019|
Here is the video of her isolated guitar sound. I’ve always been of the opinion that the lyrics are pretty much all hers but other people have handled song composition. I could be wrong but that’s always what I’ve felt.
|by Anonymous||reply 261||Last Thursday at 7:39 AM|
"She has been all at once way too much and never enough to fit in anywhere; she is the archetypal outsider, too punk for Hollywood, and too Hollywood for punk, too vulgar for the feminists, too female for conventional rock and roll. The Riot Grrrls rejected her for, well, for not being one of them. She’s too ugly to be pretty, too pretty to be ugly, too undisciplined to be intellectual and too loud to be listened to. But it is the sum of all of these things, all of her stupid mistakes, her fame-hungry vulgarity, all of her blistering intelligence, grace and charm, her pure unfiltered honesty, her impeccable taste, style and courage that makes her so unique. Primarily, she is an artist and a poet, lyrically and visually she has evoked an entire universe, combining feelings of desire and alienation with themes of bloody vanity, lust and motherhood. She created a sound and aesthetic that is uniquely and aggressively female."
|by Anonymous||reply 262||Last Friday at 12:53 PM|
R261, that sounds awful.
|by Anonymous||reply 263||Last Friday at 12:57 PM|
She's had better performances, but why is playing the guitar a big deal? Mick Jagger, Michael Stipe, Morrissey, so many other male rock stars do not play an instrument on stage. If she pantomimes now, I don't care, it doesn't take away her authentically rock and roll life she's lived or the presence she brings.
|by Anonymous||reply 264||Last Friday at 1:11 PM|
Love Skinny Little Bitch, wish she weren’t unhinged because I think she really could spill some secrets. No way she killed Cobain..she would have blabbed about it.
|by Anonymous||reply 265||Last Friday at 5:05 PM|
"She's had better performances, but why is playing the guitar a big deal?"
If you can't play the guitar (and she surely can't) then you shouldn't be up on a stage pretending to play one. Actually, Patti Smith, who also cannot play any instrument, did the same thing. She would handle a guitar on stage but wouldn't actually play it, just flail at it and dance with it. It was a theatrical prop.
|by Anonymous||reply 266||Last Friday at 5:17 PM|
Didn’t Elvis do the same thing?
|by Anonymous||reply 267||Last Friday at 11:19 PM|
Yes R267. I thought so too. Frankly, I think Courtney just wants something to do with her hands while she's onstage, and this is a bit of a rock tradition (for some performers), to play-act with an instrument.
|by Anonymous||reply 268||Last Friday at 11:24 PM|
I've seen Patti live and she played ok.
|by Anonymous||reply 269||Last Saturday at 1:52 AM|
And SO ARE YOU!
In Olympia, ya, ya, ya, ya
|by Anonymous||reply 270||Last Saturday at 2:19 AM|
Alanis Morrissette did have a ghost writer ... for the songs she is most famous for, anyway.
|by Anonymous||reply 271||Last Saturday at 2:38 AM|
Elvis could play the guitar and piano. More so in te early years. Once he was famous the guitar was a prop.
|by Anonymous||reply 272||Last Saturday at 3:18 AM|
|by Anonymous||reply 273||Last Saturday at 3:18 AM|
Not being able to play as well as other people in your band, or well enough to be anything more than a passenger while simultaneously distracting yourself from your duties as a frontman, doesn’t mean that you can’t play well enough to write songs or accompany yourself at home. Basic proficiency isn’t that hard.
|by Anonymous||reply 274||Last Saturday at 11:10 AM|