Honest thoughts about SMU?

What other schools ate you looking at?

On one episode, Thurston Howell III said he went to SMU -- "Super Millionaires University".

R1 We live in Austin so UT (he is on fence due to hometown), AU, Georgetown, Rice, which would be a reach, most likely.

And I should add that SMU felt like the right size for him - he is not interested in the smaller, liberal arts colleges.

He should not go to SMU

Is your son's name Joel?

I think of party and rich, mostly southerners

Do you like extra Christian-Christianny Texan Republicans?

LIke Baylor, SMU girls take it up the back so they can be "virgins" at their weddings.

No, I don’t like those types but I’m looking for recent and knowledgeable opinions. The school has been working to get past that reputation, to wit: 27% of current student body is diverse and 52% is non-Texan.

What does he want to major in?

Why are people segregating themselves by politics?

R10 Major depends on the week, TBH. History, marketing, game design, political science...

SMU is a very good, but not exceptional, academic school. Because many of its students - its efforts to change its reputation - are from wealthy Texas families; students from out of state or who are not from wealthy families may find it difficult to assimilate in the unique non-fratty SMU way. While many of these kids are not religious or are not necessarily Trump lovers, they are still rich kids from Texas who stick to their own.

As result, those non-Texan or non-wealthy students who DO find success at SMU usually do so by finding their specific niche. Could be band, could be within a field of study, could be LGBT, could be theatre, could be anything. But understand that the typical SMU student likely never sees the “niche” kid as a true SMU student nor accepts him/her into that social network, which lasts a lifetime.

You asked for recent information. Here is a recent trend occurring at SMU. The university requires first-year students to live in on-campus housing, but many of the typical SMU students and their parents eschew that lodging option and the parents purchase a nice condo nearby University Park. Their children then live there for four (or more) years of school, including during their first year at SMU when the parents ALSO pay for on-campus room and board for their child. The on-campus room remains empty and the meal plan mostly unused, but fully paid for by the parents. Are you ready and able to make those types of financial decisions for your son to fit in?

SMU also houses the George W Bush Presidential Library, which you may have visited during a campus visit. The Library notes three major areas of emphasis during George W Bush’s presidency: 1. His courageous response to 9/11. 2. His courageous leadership in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. And 3. His courageous leadership in response to the financial crisis at the end of his presidency. It literally does not mention the war in Afghanistan. I asked the docent where was the exhibit on Laura Bush killing her classmate. I was politely asked to leave.

As for your comment that your son is “non-frat”, I would encourage you to remain open about that. Especially at the types of schools you described - those larger than liberal arts colleges but smaller than large state universities - fraternity systems in 2019 are different than in generations past. They often focus on community service, philanthropic ventures, and brotherhood (often through social events) and are often surprisingly progressive on LGBT issues. Of course there are still frat assholes out there, but don’t assume they are the way they used to be.

Isn't this where Lucy Ewing went in the early seasons of "Dallas"? If so, yes, he should go there.

R13 Thank you so much for a thorough and thoughtful answer!

He should probably go to Oberlin, Hampshire or Antioch College. These are the safe places to go if you are Out.

[quote] These are the safe places to go if you are Out.

Where did OP said her son was gay?

[quote] He should probably go to Oberlin, Hampshire or Antioch College

Did he get into those schools? If so he should go to Oberlin or Hampshire. I'd say: Oberlin, Hampshire, UT, then SMU, in that order. I don't know anything about Antioch.

If it's UT vs. SMU, then UT. He will not like the climate at SMU. Personally, I think that SMU is underrated in Texas. I tell all my students to consider it. It's a good school and has a lot of money-- which is important because schools with money provide better opportunities for students.

But it is NOT a school to go to if you're looking for an unconventional atmosphere. Dallas is very conservative in a Deep South kind of way-- unlike Austin or Houston. He would be much better off at UT, even if he grew up in Austin. It's a bigger, truly diverse school. There are lots of different scenes at UT and he'd find his niche. SMU has more limited social options. That said, the departments he's interested in are strong at SMU. I do not think for undergrad that really matters. It's better to choose a school that's a good fit with your personality than for the strength of academics as an undergrad.

Finally, stats put out by universities are meaningless. They are marketing tools. 27% diversity is laughable when you consider the demographics of Dallas, and Texas more broadly.

PONY UP!

I live in Dallas. The student body is very attractive. While I think most of the students come from wealthy conservative families, Dallas is actually pretty liberal (for Texas), and I know a couple of very wealthy liberal families here who sent their kids there. If your son wants a career here in Dallas post graduation , SMU is a great choice, as the alumni network to the corporate halls of power here is large and powerful.

How is the drug scene at SMU?

R18 Um, Hampshire is not accepting new students, so it's not a particularly good option.

How can a college not accept new students R22?

Damn, r22 is right. Do NOT even think about Hampshire. But r20 is WRONG. Dallas is the most conservative metro area in Texas.

[quote]27% diversity is laughable when you consider the demographics of Dallas, and Texas more broadly.

—Forrmer academic who now teaches high school in Houston

[quote]I live in Dallas. The student body is very attractive. While I think most of the students come from wealthy conservative families...

—r20

Thanks to all who commented - I’m a politically active native Texan so know the cities well (and have lived in Europe, DC, and Los Angeles so no, not a provincial rube). My preference would be UT for many reasons (cost, legacy, prestige, nearby-edness) but if SMU speaks to him, I’d like to support him one way or the other with various opinions so I appreciate your help!

My brothers went to SMU. It is VERY Greek focused. I can't imagine going there and not belonging to a frat or sorority. If you go to SMU and belong to a frat, then you have several good job opportunities upon graduation. Rich white families take care of each other, after all. It's still a very Republican school.

UT is a better school and certainly more liberal, but it's BIG. It's so easy to feel lost and alone. Since you live in Austin, he should have several of his high school friends going there, too, so he should be okay.

Well if he likes SMU, then he should go. It's better than Trinity and the other private schools in Texas, I think. (Rice is good but it's very provincial for what it claims to be.) SMU certainly has the best-connected alumni network, and that really matters when it comes time to get a job.

R24. Fort Worth is very conservative. Surburban Dallas is conservative. The city of Dallas is not conservative

Fort Worth is a lot more fun than Dallas, has he checked out TCU? Also, they used to have a ratio of something like eight girls for every boy student.

R29 is correct.

SMU is good school, especially if you are going to be in Dallas, or even Texas. If you plan on being in broader U.S., UT has better name recognition.

Just because the word “Methodist” is in the name does not make it uber-religious. It’s not Liberty or Oral Roberts. They worship money, football and Ferraris at SMU.

R28, I thought Trinity was supposed to be really good? I’m surprised.

[quote]The city of Dallas is not conservative

You're forgetting the Park Cities and Preston Hollow neighborhoods, which take up a large chunk of the city. Those neighborhoods are 90% Republican. SMU just happens to sit right in the middle of them, and it has a big influence on the politically conservative nature of the school.

An SMU degree is only significant in Texas and the South.

What exactly is the standard of "wealth" for an SMU family? I had a heinous snob frenemy in college (Ivy League school) who was wealthy and from Dallas, and she would never have gone to SMU or UT because it was just beneath her (ike I said, she's awful). As for attractiveness, she's hideous. Reminded me of one of Cinderella's ugly stepsisters. But she wanted to make oodles of money as a biglaw attorney in NY, and that is what she is doing.

SMU seems like a provincial school. If they got into Georgetown, go to Georgetown.

R33, the park cities are not in Dallas!!..Highland Park and University Park are distinct seperate incorporated towns. They are surrounded by Dallas, but not parts of Dallas. Preston Hollow is in Dallas.

[QUOTE] SMU seems like a provincial school. If they got into Georgetown, go to Georgetown.

Who is "they"?

He may consider TCU but when he learned how religious Baylor is, he nixed it. He isn’t wedded to a Texas school by any stretch - just looking in state until summer opens up. I’m still not sure what appealed to him about SMU - I think it feels like a big school but the population is manageable.

I got the impression that SMU is like the old Southern finishing school/safety school circuit (Vanderbilt, Emory, Wake Forest, etc.). You probably could get a good education in those places but you don't have to. And if your daddy is a donor, that can make bad grades go away. Most of these places have been trying to emulate Duke and get a more geographically and ethnically diversified student body, but serious people and people from outside the refion still struggle to be happy.

I think you may be right. ^^^

I think of SMU as the USC of Texas. More conservative but still where rich kids who did well but not great in high school and SATs go. The Californians I know who go tend to be conservative, insular rich, Upper middle class kids. Think the reputation is much bigger in Texas than elsewhere. In terms of employability, UT Austin would get more recognition and probably respect in my world of finance. And Georgetown. Rice is another one that is a great school but not very good name recognition.

Again, the Greek scene dominates SMU student life. Non-Greeks can feel isolated—lots of students transfer out because of it—and they have to work harder to find like-minded friend groups.

UT Austin's size is a plus and a minus. It's easy to get lost in the crowd, but on the other hand there are tons of things to get involved in, plus it's in Austin. Greek life, while strong, isn't essential to having a decent social life and is easily ignored if that's not your thing.

Rice is extremely selective and intellectually rigorous. The vibe is probably more "nerdy and proud of it" than SJW. Instead of a Greek system, they have residential colleges, which some students feel are cliquish and insular in their own way.

Oberlin and Antioch have a pretty hardcore SJW rep, so probably not the best choice for a kid who IDs as "anti-frat but not a SJW."

If your son doesn’t plan on joining a fraternity then don’t send him to SMU. Greek life is a huge part of campus life there and if you’re not a part of it you’re left out of so much.

Several of us have tried to explain to the OP that SMU is not a good choice if you don't belong to a frat or sorority, but he doesn't want to listen. I think he's impressed with the idea of having a kid attending SMU so he's blocking everything else out.

A perfect example of SMU is Pi Beta Phi alumna Hope Hicks and her knee pads.

r39, your description of Emory, Wake Forest, and Vanderbilt is a little off the mark. Yes, Vanderbilt and Emory are still safety schools -- but for people trying for the Ivies. Vanderbilt is nationally ranked top 25 in many things. Wake and Vandy are both preppy but they draw from different geographic areas. Vanderbilt has a lot of midwesterners, and has become a real premed/engineering factory. Wake is more of a regional school. Emory is pretty different from the other two. Very Jewish, very pre-med.

Is that where W has his library?

The director of my department is an SMU alumni. She is religious, conservative and condescending to people she feels are her lessers.

Where did Oberlin come from? It’s a great school, but what does it have in common with SMU?

[quote]The director of my department is an SMU alumni. She is religious, conservative and condescending to people she feels are her lessers.

I feel you're my lesser because you don't know the word "alumna."

I never heard of Oberlin until Lens Dunham.

Maybe you need to assure him that even if he goes to UT-Austin (by far the best school in your list) he will be able to live a totally independent life, and of course you will be there if/when he wants to check in, but he will be on his own as he would be in another city. And I agree that he will probably have a base of highschool friends from which he can build a network of his own friends, once there. But UT is far superior to SMU, and a degree from there can translate into a job nationally, not just regionally.

Oberlin is a very religious school, but in a Mainline Protestant way.

R50, probably. Which is why she's constantly in er and has a given a management directive. Also computer illiterate and needs help to post information on Google docs... I however, do know how and have not been given a directive; I actually learned manners. Additionally, they have given every senior administration under her, a raise; enough so we make more than her.

Aloha OP, Oaklawn born, UT Austin ran away to,ended up on Maui. Degrees, if you are going get them...make sure the SMU degree isn't written in mechanical pencil on tamale husks. When I grew up in Oaklawn, I hid a scredriver (no not cocktail) in my backpack for bubba bullies, in Austin FREE, during the Slacker days. Glad I have an ocean serrated by all. I celebrate being a proud Texan by BBQing on Maui. SMU is the antithesis of bad Texas.

I think r55 means "SMU is the apotheosis of bad Texas"

Gibby went to Trinity, so it can’t be all bad.

Southern. Methodist. I'd stop there.

"They worship money, football and Ferraris at SMU. " That's the way we Methodists are. Practical.

If he’s not a southern millionaire, he shouldn’t go to Southern Millionaires’ University.

Texas? Ugh. Where are you, OP?

R44 Why would you think I’m blocking everyone out? That’s a big assumption on your part. My son has decided against SMU -and any Texas school, actually. I was just allowing the thread to play out and responding as I saw fit. The more we learn about SMU, the more we realize it wouldn’t be a good fit.

R61 Austin. Ugh.

R52 I agree. Husband and I - and many family members are proud UT alumnae- but he has his eyes now set on UNC and UCSC and UCSB. To be continued!

[quote]Honest thoughts about SMU?

You were expecting someone to lie?

I'll start:

I went there and loved it. Made great connections that helped me get ahead after graduation. Beautiful school. Great reputation and lots of wealthy people. Recommend!

If you're going to shell out thousands of dollars for tuition, room and board, I'd try for a better school than SMU. He should consider U. Maryland, U. Virginia, U. MIchigan or U.Connecticut, all state schools with lower tuition even for out-of-staters.

Emory a safety school for the Ivy bound. It's obviously a really vapid place. Ditto Vandy---where the landscaping stops once you pass the administration building.

[quote]I went there and loved it. Made great connections that helped me get ahead after graduation. Beautiful school. Great reputation and lots of wealthy people. Recommend!

I went to Vanderbilt, and it's far superior to SMU in every way. It's several levels above SMU. And the students are from wealthier families, so lose the attitude.

If he goes to SMU he will have to stay in Texas for the rest of his life, for outside of Texas, places like SMU, Texas Tech, Baylor, Texas A&M, the U of Dallas, etc... they're all considered places where idiots prosper.

R69 seems like you're the one with the attitude! I mentioned lots of wealthy people go there--what does that have to do with Vanderbilt?

Definite no to AU.

Reed College in Oregon is less SJW than you probably think.

Cal Poly in SLO comes to mind as fitting your criteria.

Given that he's grown up in Texas, though, a place like Bucknell might be a more interesting culture shock.