A continued discussion of Britain’s self-immolation
Brexit for Dummies
|by Anonymous||reply 558||Last Friday at 12:07 PM|
|by Anonymous||reply 1||03/17/2019|
The thread below was supposed to be the continuation but someone freaked out because the OP mentioned the lesbians and the thread died on its ass as a result.
Third vote on May's del next week and I think it'll finally pass. She has the DUP now, I believe.
|by Anonymous||reply 2||03/17/2019|
Chaos. Blackmail. Drama.
It should be serialised as a TV programme.
|by Anonymous||reply 3||03/17/2019|
Only 11 days to go.
|by Anonymous||reply 4||03/17/2019|
[quote]Is May’s deal now dead?
[quote]No. It may have suffered two crushing defeats at the hands of MPs (the first was by a margin of 230 in January) but the prime minister refuses to give up on it. She will have another go at forcing it through parliament on Tuesday after more talks this weekend and Monday with the 10 DUP MPs and the Eurosceptics in her own party. Even if she fails a third time, she could try for fourth time lucky in the days immediately before the UK is due to leave on 29 March.
Fucking shameless. Four binding votes on the exact same shit, yet one advisory referendum suffices for all eternity.
|by Anonymous||reply 5||03/17/2019|
Thousends of Brits trying to get German citizenship, many of them work in Germany. Or come from families that fled to Britain in the thirties.
People with Irish ancestry applying for Irish citizenship.
The brain drain has begun.
|by Anonymous||reply 6||03/17/2019|
Almost a quarter of a million applications for Irish passports have been submitted in under three months.
|by Anonymous||reply 7||03/17/2019|
Great poster OP!
|by Anonymous||reply 8||03/17/2019|
City still on fire!
|by Anonymous||reply 9||03/17/2019|
What is this Beggar Woman shit?
|by Anonymous||reply 10||03/17/2019|
The clock is ticking.
|by Anonymous||reply 11||03/17/2019|
You're fucked not because of the clock but because May's deal will go through even before the extension kicks in and you'll be on your own the moment it passes. No doubt there will be huge celebrations on the streets and Turd creamning himself on Twitter but people in the UK will have no clue just how impoverished they became in that moment. That's when the real misery starts.
|by Anonymous||reply 12||03/17/2019|
R12 It's difficult to determine if May's deal will go through this week. The DUP are master negotiators. She HAS to get them onside, but they need to extricate more ££££s from the government, in case a General Election is on the horizon. Then they can go back to Northern Ireland and say to the people "We got you £x. Vote for us."
Basically May is tackling one set of objectors at a time to get them onboard.
She'll probably try getting her Brexiteers onboard next, but if they prove immovable then she will try and get some rogue Labour MPs onside with promises of cash.
|by Anonymous||reply 13||03/17/2019|
The deplorable McVey is already on board. When the hour comes, I'm certain she'll get enough votes.
|by Anonymous||reply 14||03/17/2019|
[quote]“Look, I have every respect for Theresa May,” Rutte said in an interview with the Dutch broadcaster WNL on Sunday. “She reminds me occasionally of that character from Monty Python where all the arms and legs are cut off but he then tells the opponent: ‘Let’s call it a draw.’ She’s incredible. She goes on and on. At the same time, I do not blame her, but British politics.”
[quote]Rutte said of the prime minister’s predicament: “You can see what happens when a country puts everything on the roulette wheel and takes a risk, and the whole thing collapses. That is what is happening. Economic, financial, politically, England is in a very bad position right now.”
Oh, how I'm going to miss this trash talk once they're finally gone. But perhaps it'll get even bitchier when they turn into direct competition.
|by Anonymous||reply 15||03/17/2019|
"She is mean. She is rude. She is cruel. She is stupid. I have heard that from almost everyone who has dealt with her.”
|by Anonymous||reply 16||03/17/2019|
Doesn't get much more damning than that, r16.
|by Anonymous||reply 17||03/17/2019|
R16 I cannot stand May at all but I really don't think people would speak like that about her if she wasn't a woman.
|by Anonymous||reply 18||03/17/2019|
I'm with you R18
|by Anonymous||reply 19||03/17/2019|
r18 I've heard way worse said about Cameron.
|by Anonymous||reply 20||03/17/2019|
R20 with reason, but May is there to clean up his mess they should treat her with a bit more respect.
|by Anonymous||reply 21||03/17/2019|
She has shown over and over again that she has zero regard for anyone in the EU but her own party and clinging to power. She was literally flying across Europe for over a year, trying to turn member states against each other, and made her MEPs in the European parliament turn a blind eye to the fascist Orban so he'd give her support in Brexit talks. She did the same with the Polish fascist government. So the gays should be the last people feeling sorry about her.
To say nothing of the cruel right-wing shit she was doing while serving as Home Secretary. Don't get blinded by her perfect diction; she's as evil as they come.
|by Anonymous||reply 22||03/17/2019|
all the laughter all the tears
|by Anonymous||reply 23||03/17/2019|
All joking aside, the uncertainty and doomed rhetoric is really starting to get to me. 'Mary!' me if you like but I'm starting to fray at the seams, and the worst part is I know someone somewhere is enjoying it. My fear is only eclipsed by my anger & bitterness toward the bloated boom-economy opportunists who did this.
I'm a young British LMC gay and a recovering depressive, and in the wake of this I don't know how I'll cope or what I'll do. Thanks to my finances and my age and my mental state I'm struggling to find work as it is (I do a lot of cash-in-hand, unreliable jobs to make ends meet) and I have to live with immediate local family under one roof to afford it (I have wealthy extended family abroad, but they don't care for me and consider me a branch best unacknowledged). This isn't how I imagined my 20s would be nor was it what I prepared for. The 08 recession already wiped out any promise of my generation's future security and tanked the value of our education, and now we're being told we will have nothing to look forward to imminently either. It doesn't help to have the wealthy elderly sneering at us to 'just work abroad' or 'get some training/work experience' or 'get on the property ladder', all impossible or extremely difficult prospects for the majority in the same boat.
I've never taken anything to cope with stress but with each passing day this goes on I'm starting to look at chemicals in a different light. I'm putting on a brave self-deprecating 'pah' face at work & home saying "it'll never happen", but I know I've been sold down the river for a government and a society I don't even believe in, and one that hates people like me. I spend most night locked alone inside my basement room crying, and I haven't gone out to enjoy life or other people in literal years (at least since the first vote happened). I just want to know what I can do to either put up a fight or to save myself and my siblings from this impending crisis, if anything; is it only to learn French/Chinese/Russian in six months and start work for Amazon?
Here's a song for my so-called elders & betters. I hope selling your own children by the pound was worth it.
[quote] E is for the good times that go against the bad times,/E is for the world you gave us, and left us here behind,/E is for the reason to live through urban grey,/E is for the warm glow that takes the fear away,/Show us what is better; why don't you stand inside these shoes? Live with me each Monday, let's see what you would do./Which world do you live in? Which world did you choose? Hiding the tears, that's all,/No win...
|by Anonymous||reply 24||03/17/2019|
They already know, R12. I see a number of Brit tweets and there is something almost every day that people discover that may change for the worse with Brexit. NIgel Farage's big protest was a typical Trump-type wheeze. In fact, the Brexiteers are much like the US deplorables. There aren't that many, but individual conservatives are concerned about losing their own seats so they continue to vote against another referendum, like US republicans enable Trump.
|by Anonymous||reply 25||03/17/2019|
R24, you could teach English as a foreign language. That's what I do (or used to do to be more precise). The summer, with loads of summer camps for kids and teenagers, is the right time to start; you gain the work experience, get yourself a tefl course under your belt and pick a country. There were jobs going at the British Council in Paris not so long ago. Good luck!
|by Anonymous||reply 26||03/17/2019|
Last week’s vote meant nothing. The UK will most likely crash out without a deal. And they thoroughly deserve what they’re getting.
|by Anonymous||reply 27||03/17/2019|
Latest news is there has been no deal between the DUP and May so there will be no vote this week. There will probably be one next week and it will come with a nine month extension.
Also, the Commons speaker has just said he will not allow another vote on the same deal, as the matter has already been decided twice now. So that's another bump on the road for May.
|by Anonymous||reply 28||03/18/2019|
[quote]Bercow implies he will not allow a new vote on the Brexit deal unless the EU agrees to further changes to it. This takes Bercow’s ruling much further than his original words implied.
[quote]Given that the EU has said it will not make any further changes to the withdrawal agreement, Bercow’s answer to Benn may have killed off all prospect of a third meaningful vote.
|by Anonymous||reply 29||03/18/2019|
They need to do a complete forensic investigation into the 'Brexit' election to determine if there was Russian influence. If there was even a hint, then it's invalid- and they must revote.
I bet they'd be surprised at the results the 2nd time.
|by Anonymous||reply 30||03/18/2019|
R30 Fuck off with your Russian interference conspiracy bullshit.
The issues behind Brexit have been there for years. They existed before the internet ffs. Any wrongful influence in the Brexit referendum was down to the Leave campaign and their lies about us being £350m a week better off outside of the EU. As we all now know, the opposite is true.
|by Anonymous||reply 31||03/18/2019|
Bastards already coming up with different ways to game the system:
[quote]This is from Robert Buckland, the solicitor general, on Bercow saying he might not allow a repeat vote on the Brexit deal. Buckland told BBC News:
[quote]We are in a major constitutional crisis here. There are ways around this - a prorogation of parliament and a new session. We are talking about hours to March 29. Frankly we could have done without this. Now we have this ruling to deal with, it is clearly going to require a lot of very fast but very deep thought in the hours ahead.
Mind you, the speaker has also said MPs could vote to change the Commons rule preventing repeat votes on the same motion. This all has a hail Mary feel to it, doesn't it? The last line of defence against May's deal finally getting passed.
|by Anonymous||reply 32||03/18/2019|
We Brits are quite capable of making our own dogs breakfast of things without the Ruskies being involved thank you.
We may of been organised in WWII, but that doesn't mean that we can't make a complete hash of things lately.
|by Anonymous||reply 33||03/18/2019|
Nathalie Loiseau, France's minister for European affairs, told Le Journal du Dimanche this week that she has named her cat "Brexit" because he is often reluctant to leave.
“He wakes me up every morning meowing to death because he wants to go out, and then when I open the door he stays put, undecided, and then glares at me when I put him out,” Loiseau said.
|by Anonymous||reply 34||03/18/2019|
r34 Hysterical! And the most perfect preview image ever to accompany the article.
|by Anonymous||reply 35||03/18/2019|
"Dear Brits, please LEAVE ALREADY": commentary from the German version of the Daily Show. English closed captions available.
|by Anonymous||reply 36||03/19/2019|
It’s looking more and more like no-deal. Last week’s vote meant absolutely nothing.
|by Anonymous||reply 37||03/20/2019|
[quote]May bends to pressure from Tory Brexiters and rules out long article 50 extension request
r37 Seems like it, doesn't it? Either that, or her deal finally passes out of sheer desperation.
|by Anonymous||reply 38||03/20/2019|
We can annex you. Call me.
|by Anonymous||reply 39||03/20/2019|
Well, shit is [italic]really[/italic] hitting the fan now. May earlier today asked for a short extension until 30 June, but the European commission president Jean-Claude Juncker said the UK must leave the EU by 23 May if it is not taking part in European elections.
Thoughts and prayers. This is truly crunch time.
|by Anonymous||reply 40||03/20/2019|
Extension to make plans to implement the WA agreement or no-deal by mid-May. Otherwise GTFO. Macron rumoured to be about to give the DeGaullist 'Non', which would be lovely and fitting to Perfidious Albion.
|by Anonymous||reply 41||03/20/2019|
Biggest beat up of all time. At least with Brexit one gains a Parliament that is somewhat accountable to the People! No one I know wants to lick the arses of an unelected unaccountable undemocratic European parliament.
Have you ever listened to them? The biggest collection of entitled smug power hungry unelected cunts outside of an 18th century court. Here’s the rich irony. A goodly number from the european states are actually endentured high level civil servants from aristocratic families.
|by Anonymous||reply 42||03/20/2019|
In what way is the European parliament undemocratic? It's literally elected by the people.
And someone who routinely licks the boots of an elected monarch really shouldn't be lecturing anyone on democracy.
|by Anonymous||reply 43||03/20/2019|
My bc was against Brexit. Then he watched that show Nightmare Tenants, Slum Landlords.
The U.K. In the 21st C: you and your partner are living with your parents because you’re renovating your new home that you finally got after saving for years, you go to move in but there are squatters there. You call the cops and they tell you they cannot do anything. Even if the squatters are illegal immigrants who are subletting your home to other illegal immigrants. The cops just cannot do a thing. You’ll have to hire a lawyer and go through a long drawn-out court process. Nobody but you will be liable for the damages or money lost in the meantime.
But if you say transgender women aren’t the same as biological women on Twitter, or if you write on Facebook that you don’t like how Muslim parents shut down LGBT education in schools? The police can definitely do something with that!
Absolutely fucked. Brits don’t seem to value their culture and way of life, sadly. Clearly TPTB aren’t letting Brexit happen. Glad I visited a few times already.
|by Anonymous||reply 44||03/20/2019|
The UK had all the power to limit the non-EU immigration as much as they wanted. And they failed at that, when Theresa was Home Secretary.
Also, I recall France and others having some reservations about letting people from Romania, Poland and others move freely across the EU so quickly, but it was the UK, hungry for more cheap labour, that convinced them otherwise. So please, enough with the immigration bullshit. They made this mess all by themselves by lusting after short-term profit only.
|by Anonymous||reply 45||03/20/2019|
*unelected monarch. Way to destroy my own burn, sigh.
|by Anonymous||reply 46||03/20/2019|
This is getting interesting now.
|by Anonymous||reply 47||03/20/2019|
The european union has been an aristocratic venture from the get-go!!! Even in the 30s when Count Coudenhove-Kalergi became its father, and used the masoic lodges of europe (but not England to furtherhis aims. (And no,that’s not conspiracy shit: you’ll find it in academic studies.) Who now is the vice president of the Pan European Union? Walburga Habsburg Douglas. Does that name ring a bell. In any case, that’s Countess Douglas to you. Look at the MEPS. Name the Italian contessa married to the second most aristocratic family in Sweden. Don’t know? And so it goes on. Scratch the euro leftists and you’ll find a self-sustaining oligarchy that is about as representative of the man in the street as —well, you guess. Barrowing down Brussels streets in their chauffeured black Mercs. But you know what’s even worse? The massive, and I mean vast vast massive administration, where you’ll find the very same people and their sons and daghters and cousins and second cousins on massive salaries doing very much fuck all, but looking very busy and important doing it. Because there’s endless reports to be written and processed and debated which only they bother to read. It makes the UN look a model of economy. Sorry. I want MY government to be on the fucking country I love. It’s not asking for much. Imagine if America handed over its powers to an oligarchy based in Brazil. How would YOU feel?
|by Anonymous||reply 48||03/20/2019|
Macron playing hardball is exciting. But Merkel will overpower him once again with her conciliatory tone.
[quote]Imagine if America handed over its powers to an oligarchy based in Brazil. How would YOU feel?
|by Anonymous||reply 49||03/20/2019|
She's mailed her begging letter too late! Things just keep getting worse and worse.
[quote]Senior EU diplomat: May's letter has arrived 'too late' for EU leaders to make a decision on an Article 50 extension at tomorrow's summit.
Also, May is making a statement to the nation later tonight. Will probably say she'll resign if Brexit is delayed beyond 30 June.
|by Anonymous||reply 50||03/20/2019|
They need a hard Brexit and all the shit that will come with it, otherwise those delusional pro Brexit cunts will never shut up. Then, once their economy is in the toilet , they will reapply. This time the EU should play hardball and NOT grant all those special little British exceptions they always got.
|by Anonymous||reply 51||03/20/2019|
Well, there you have it.
[quote]Tusk says EU will only give the UK a short article 50 extension if MPs pass the Brexit deal. He says, if there is a positive vote in the Commons next week, the extension can be finalised using a written procedure.
|by Anonymous||reply 52||03/20/2019|
Emmanuel Macron: No Brexit extension without a clear proposal
Theresa May has requested an extension of Brexit to June 30. The French president is not in favor of granting this extension without a clear justification.
"An extension is not a solution, it is not a strategy", says a source at the Elysée. The French president is waiting from Theresa May for a "clear proposal". Which, up to now, the Prime Minister has been incapable of delivering.
Emmanuel Macron : pas de report du Brexit sans projet clair Theresa May demande un report de la date du Brexit au 30 juin. Le président français n'est pas disposé à accorder ce report « sans projet clair ».
« Une extension n'est pas une solution, n'est pas une stratégie », prévient-on à l'Élysée. Le président français attend de la part de Theresa May « un projet clair ». Ce dont, pour l'heure, la Première ministre n'a pas été capable.
|by Anonymous||reply 53||03/20/2019|
[quote]Sources have said France, Spain, Belgium and maybe Italy stand prepared to reject an extension without evidence Parliament is now ready to accept a deal and “the deadlock can be broken”.
[quote]Some member states worry there is no point to an extension as, even after 1,000 days of negotiation, Theresa May’s deal keeps being rejected and the EU cannot move any further towards the UK.
So it's not just France, it seems. It's now or never, Theresa.
|by Anonymous||reply 54||03/20/2019|
Future of British produce after that trade deal is signed with the US.
|by Anonymous||reply 55||03/20/2019|
[quote] A goodly number from the European states are actually indentured high level civil servants from aristocratic families
@R42, I think you are talking about the British Parliament
|by Anonymous||reply 56||03/20/2019|
Thank you R45, the voice of reason
|by Anonymous||reply 57||03/20/2019|
May's meeting with the opposition naturally fell apart as she didn't want to listen to the alternatives. Also, Corbyn walked out because those new independent MPs had for some reason been invited to the meeting as well.
Conservative MPs have been laying into her all day, on Twitter and in the House. Her speech is coming up in ten minutes.
|by Anonymous||reply 58||03/20/2019|
City on Fire! City on Fire!
|by Anonymous||reply 59||03/20/2019|
It's been suggested she might say something along the lines of "Vote for my deal and I'll resign" thus they'll get rid of her AND get Brexit sooner rather than later.
|by Anonymous||reply 60||03/20/2019|
Country on Fire! Country on Fire!
|by Anonymous||reply 61||03/20/2019|
Third vote happens on Monday and deal gets voted down, so she finally allows indicative votes. That would be my best bet.
|by Anonymous||reply 62||03/20/2019|
May statement postponed 15 minutes or so.
|by Anonymous||reply 63||03/20/2019|
R63, danger is afoot
|by Anonymous||reply 64||03/20/2019|
Livestream. "Brexit means Brexit. Nothing has changed..."
|by Anonymous||reply 65||03/20/2019|
Those are my predictions, btw. She hasn't actually started speaking yet.
|by Anonymous||reply 66||03/20/2019|
[quote]PM statement delayed to 2030. Am told to expect a relatively short one.
Someone replied with "The year 2030?"
|by Anonymous||reply 67||03/20/2019|
She sure ain’t gonna announce a second referendum. Because that ain’t happening. It was never gonna happen.”
|by Anonymous||reply 68||03/20/2019|
Has the paper jammed in the printer or something?
|by Anonymous||reply 69||03/20/2019|
Uh-oh, she's gone all poetic and reflexive on us.
|by Anonymous||reply 70||03/20/2019|
Omg, she's legitimately pisssed. Where will this lead?!
|by Anonymous||reply 71||03/20/2019|
Theresa's not amused.
|by Anonymous||reply 72||03/20/2019|
General election and referendum ruled out, she's going all in on her deal for the third and final time.
[quote]"It is now time for MPs to decide" - the whole of @theresa_may's Brexit statement. No need to watch it on playback
|by Anonymous||reply 73||03/20/2019|
Commentators on the BBC are saying this is looking more and more like No Deal.
|by Anonymous||reply 74||03/20/2019|
[quote]Theresa's not amused
|by Anonymous||reply 75||03/20/2019|
[quote]“I am on your side”, she said, addressing the British people.“
The rhetoric she used was really nasty and almost authoritarian. It's like she was saying she's just one of the people, battling the dark forces of the Parliament. She's going to regret talking like that eventually as even the Conservatives don't like it.
|by Anonymous||reply 76||03/20/2019|
R75, hahahaha, lovely!
|by Anonymous||reply 77||03/20/2019|
Well, at least Wimbledon should be enjoyable.
|by Anonymous||reply 78||03/20/2019|
Is he believable?
|by Anonymous||reply 79||03/20/2019|
Nah, r75, that’s Theresa having a good old guffaw and a knees-up at the local after a third gin and tonic.
|by Anonymous||reply 80||03/20/2019|
I see others have also clocked the dog-whistling rhetoric in her speech. From an MP:
[quote]I’ve thought long and hard before saying this, but @theresa_may knows that MPs across the House are subjected to death threats - some very credible. Her speech was incendiary and irresponsible. If any harm comes to any of us, she will have to accept her share of responsibility.
|by Anonymous||reply 81||03/20/2019|
She's lost it.
|by Anonymous||reply 82||03/20/2019|
All this fuss just to get rid of a bunch of Romanian strawberry-pickers (and replace them with Bangladeshi ones).
|by Anonymous||reply 83||03/20/2019|
Her speech hasn’t been received well in the UK press to put it milldly.
|by Anonymous||reply 84||03/20/2019|
Don’t you think she looks tired?
|by Anonymous||reply 85||03/20/2019|
I’m so sick of it all I wish they’d do a surprise early Brexit overnight. At the dawn it’s a no deal exit - we’re out now of the EU and the chips will fall where they may. People would wake up to the news and commence to shit themselves.
|by Anonymous||reply 86||03/20/2019|
Direct result of May's Trumpian speech last night, as told by an MP:
[quote]I was out today in the street of Kemptown with @itvnews, a vast majority want to remain and have a final say vote on deal vs remain. Unfortunately at the end of the day a man came up and started shouting at the TV crew and me. Saying MPs are the problems & we are traitors.
[quote]He tried to assault me, grabbed & bent my glasses and for a moment I thought he was going to hit me. 3 grown men had to prise him off me. This is not normal, I’m representing my constituents but @theresa_may has whipped up fear and division with her speech last night
|by Anonymous||reply 87||03/21/2019|
Okay, something is definitely afoot. The EU leaders have told May she mustn't give the DUP any concessions because according to sources, they realize her deal is dead as a doornail. News is coming in that they are offering a 9-month extension. I bet that's Merkel flexing her muscles.
|by Anonymous||reply 88||03/21/2019|
What is it with journous and their insider sources? Everywhere I look, there's a different date.
[quote]New: source says the original May 22nd extension date in the draft conclusions has been changed as discussions continue. There is now discussion around April 11th.
[quote]I hear EU27 leaders are now discussing a #Brexit extension that ends on 7th May, whether the deal passes or not. Macron playing a big role, apparently.
|by Anonymous||reply 89||03/21/2019|
Oh, to be a fly on that wall...
[quote]I’m told by an EU official that there’s a proper battle royal underway among the EU27 over extension end date, it’s “lively in the room”. Some UK allies (Denmark) want it pushed back to June 30, others (France) want it earlier than May 22
|by Anonymous||reply 90||03/21/2019|
What an absolutely certified shit show. Just get on with it already. How many more shameless lies is this useless cunt going to tell the public? I can't imagine anyone believing anything coming out of her traitorous mouth any more.
|by Anonymous||reply 91||03/21/2019|
The EU leaders are continuing to discuss the extension without May now. This is how it looks in the hallways, with the diplomats sorting out the British mess.
I saw this funny reply when someone tweeted the EU leaders would talk over dinner without May: "She should have gone along for work experience.."
|by Anonymous||reply 92||03/21/2019|
By all accounts, May crashed and burned in front of the other leaders today.
[quote]She didn’t even give clarity if she is organising a vote. Asked three times what she would do if she lost the vote, she couldn’t say. It was awful. Dreadful. Evasive even by her standards.
[quote]When leaders asked May what she was going to do if her deal was voted down, an official added that the prime minister replied that she was following her ‘Plan A’ of getting it through. It was then the EU decided that “she didn’t have a plan so they needed to come up with one for her”, the source added.
|by Anonymous||reply 93||03/21/2019|
Decision is out:
[quote]Donald Tusk confirms that Theresa May has agreed to the plan to delay Brexit until 22 May if she can get her deal through the Commons, or 12 April if she cannot.
If she cannot and she decides to hold the European elections (has to announce that decision by 12 April), she could get a longer delay. If she doesn't want to hold European elections, it's no-deal exit on 12 April.
So much for her repeating "the UK is leaving the EU on March 29th and that's final" for two years like a fucking mantra.
|by Anonymous||reply 94||03/21/2019|
What a truly enormous clusterfuck.
|by Anonymous||reply 95||03/21/2019|
A clusterfuck that benefits exactly one person in the entire world. (Hint: he’s not British)
|by Anonymous||reply 96||03/21/2019|
r45 no they did not fuck up, because there were Euro rules for immigration that the UK considered at the time that they factored into the decision. They relied on the point of entry controls to give them flexibility and ultimately probably negotiating power. Unfortunately, the EU ignored its own laws, and that caused the UK a lot of trouble.
Now, if you want to argue their fault for propping up Qaddafi for years, then abandoning the country after they allowed his convoy to be captured, that's another issue. Opening that corridor was a major factor for the migrant crisis.
As far as Orban is concerned, better the devil you know, than the chaos you don't.
|by Anonymous||reply 97||03/21/2019|
Speaking about costs: the amount of money this British clusterfuck costs the EU kn terms of negotiations, organisation etc is unbelievable, GB should be sent a bill.
|by Anonymous||reply 98||03/21/2019|
R97, nonsense you are skirting the issue R45 is right
|by Anonymous||reply 99||03/22/2019|
That petition ain’t making a hill of beans difference. And neither will the march tomorrow. It’s stupid.
|by Anonymous||reply 100||03/22/2019|
It's helping shape the general atmosphere. Imagine if there were no marches and no petitions since the referendum. May would be even more shameless and there would be no discussion of indicative votes. Or Corbyn refusing to rule out revoking Article 50. It's all these little things adding to the momentum that might yet save the UK in the end.
|by Anonymous||reply 101||03/22/2019|
There's a huge march planned in London tomorrow. I reckon it's going to get nasty and that'll be a taste of things to come as these two implacable sides come to blows.
|by Anonymous||reply 102||03/22/2019|
R101, it will make ZERO difference.
|by Anonymous||reply 103||03/22/2019|
r103 You'd need to peer into that parallel universe in which these initiatives haven't taken place in order to objectively verify your assertion. Also, "zero" is a bit of a stretch. You do know how civil rights movements and campaigning for legislation starts and operates, right? If petitions didn't do shit, there wouldn't be a formal instrument established for the HoC to debate a petition that gains enough signatures. The amount of signatures on any petition sends the MPs and the nation in general a feel for how pressing an issue is.
You're the same as people who say voting doesn't matter because their one vote can't possibly make any difference. And you're right; it doesn't. It's the aggregate vote of those who believe they [italic]can[/italic] affect change by voting that matters.
|by Anonymous||reply 104||03/22/2019|
Smell YOU, R104.
The petition will make zero difference. The march will make zero difference. You obviously don’t understand how the real world works. This isn’t some Hollywood film.
|by Anonymous||reply 105||03/22/2019|
r99 how is it skirting the issue to point out that the decisions the UK made were based on the the EU's rules?
When those rules weren't enforced, the conditions changed considerably.
|by Anonymous||reply 106||03/22/2019|
I wish the Queen could somehow intervene and sack Theresa May's traitorous ass.
|by Anonymous||reply 107||03/22/2019|
There was an extensive myth-busting report published last year about UK and immigration. Not that anyone cares about evidence-based policy.
[quote]Here’s the bit everyone agrees on. From 2004 onwards, when several eastern and central European nations joined the EU, and the UK, unlike Germany, elected not to exercise its right to impose a seven-year block on people from these new member states coming here to live, net immigration increased considerably.
And yes, the UK could have closed off its borders to ALL non-EU immigration, but it chose not to do that. Ask Theresa May why not as she was Home Secretary for many years.
|by Anonymous||reply 108||03/22/2019|
R106, if you think Britain has been aligning itself to EU decisions, you haven't been paying attention. The UK has been a pain in the butt for the EU ever since they joined, opting out this and that and creating trouble. The decisions on immigration in the UK are dictated by the greedy financiers and business ppl not by the EU
|by Anonymous||reply 109||03/23/2019|
|by Anonymous||reply 110||03/23/2019|
I meant bingo @R108
Ignore previous post
|by Anonymous||reply 111||03/23/2019|
R105, politicians conduct polls for a reason and they do follow them
|by Anonymous||reply 112||03/23/2019|
How was the march gay UKians? Was beggar lady there?
|by Anonymous||reply 113||03/23/2019|
It looked great from the pists i saw on IG
|by Anonymous||reply 114||03/23/2019|
Who is beggar lady?
|by Anonymous||reply 115||03/23/2019|
r108 the group studied were Eastern Europeans aka Poles & Romanians. The 7 year option was meant to appease local politicians who worried about anti-migrant factions in their own governments. Germany used it for that reason, and really because they didn't need the cheap labour as much as the UK.
That is totally different than the wave of migrants who came through the Libya corridor. The latter are the ones whom the EU allowed in, in contravention of their own rules. The option you quote was NOT available for the second group.
Being forced to admit an influx of mainly young male migrants from Muslim countries with large extremist groups, organized drug gangs who also human traffic on the side, with dubious IDs from unstable and/or dictatorial regimes is a recipe for disaster. We (Canada) did in with Somalia in the 90s, and we paid the price for it. And by we, I mean everyone-including the decent Somali-Canadians who ended up being victimized by the violent criminal behaviour of the cohort we let in without vetting.
|by Anonymous||reply 116||03/24/2019|
[bold]Uri Geller calls on Britons to help telepathically stop Brexit[/bold]
[quote]The illusionist Uri Geller has called on the British people to help him in his efforts to telepathically stop Brexit by sending their own telepathic messages to Theresa May’s mind, compelling her to revoke article 50.
[quote]Geller wrote an open letter to the prime minister on Friday warning her he will use the powers of his mind to stop her from leading Britain into Brexit.
[quote]He plans to transmit his psychic energy into May’s brain at the “very mystical time” of 11.11 in the morning and evening every day from a secret location near his home in Israel.
Whatever it takes, bitches.
|by Anonymous||reply 117||03/24/2019|
Congratulations to r117 and Uri Geller for jointly encapsulating the title of this thread.
|by Anonymous||reply 118||03/24/2019|
R116, I took you seriously until you said, "We (Canada)......" Stealing someone else's land and then having the cheek to talk about immigration; it shows no awareness. You people are the invaders.
|by Anonymous||reply 119||03/24/2019|
What if you are an Irish citizen living in London? Will you lose your rights to be there? (I mean it is all about me you know and I'm supposed to visit an Irish friend in London this summer.)
|by Anonymous||reply 120||03/24/2019|
R118 ffs where is your sense of humour? Ppl who have none, like you, are the true 'dummies'
|by Anonymous||reply 121||03/24/2019|
R120, if they have left by then, then you would have to get a visa. No biggie
|by Anonymous||reply 122||03/24/2019|
How the UK lost Brexit battle
The course of Brexit was set in the hours and days after the 2016 referendum.
POLITICO has spoken to dozens of leading officials, diplomats and politicians in Dublin, Paris, Berlin, Belfast, London and Brussels — including in No. 10 Downing Street and chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier’s team in the European Commission — about the nearly three years of negotiations.
The story that emerges is of a process in which the EU moved inexorably forward as Westminster collapsed into political infighting, indecision and instability.
|by Anonymous||reply 123||03/28/2019|
They just voted against May. Britain is in free fall.
|by Anonymous||reply 124||03/29/2019|
At this point they must not may(pun intended) a second referendum. The Leave side has made a total shitfest of this. Thank you DUP you saved the union and might have saved UK from cutting off its nose to spite its face.
|by Anonymous||reply 125||03/29/2019|
Citizens of the Irish Republic (Eire, Southern Ireland) come under a different and much older agreement which effectively gives them UK Citizenship whenever they enter the UK.
They have had the right to work, live and claim benefits in the UK ever since Irish Independence in 1922. They are kind of honorary UK citizens.
|by Anonymous||reply 126||03/29/2019|
Holy fucking shit, defeated for the third time. I thought the vote would be held in the evening and missed it!
|by Anonymous||reply 127||03/29/2019|
Brexit is mostly for dummies OP.
|by Anonymous||reply 128||03/29/2019|
Irish nationals resident in the UK are even allowed to vote in UK elections. Nationals of other EU countries cannot.
The relationship between the UK and Eire is incredibly complex and intertwined which is something the referendum failed to take into account. Leaving the agreements we have with the rest of Europe is a whole different story to leaving the agreements we have with Ireland. I think even a lot of the most informed people in the UK didn't think that part through, which is why the 'backstop' issue has become so prominent.
Even those most anti-EU don't want us to exit the agreements we have with Eire but they didn't think those agreements were part of Brexit.
|by Anonymous||reply 129||03/29/2019|
Jesus what a disaster. It's Trump UK basically. The world is circling the drain.
|by Anonymous||reply 130||03/29/2019|
Evil bureaucratic cucks in Brussels, thinking about the bee population instead of profit, as if the world needs bees.
[quote]Chlorothalonil, a fungicide that prevents mildew and mould on crops, is the most used pesticide in the UK, applied to millions of hectares of fields, and is the most popular fungicide in the US. Farmers called the ban “overly precautionary”.
[quote]But EU states voted for a ban after a review by the European Food Safety Authority (Efsa) was unable to exclude the possibility that breakdown products of the chemical cause damage to DNA. Efsa also said “a high risk to amphibians and fish was identified for all representative uses”. Recent research further identified chlorothalonil and other fungicides as the strongest factor linked to steep declines in bumblebees.
|by Anonymous||reply 131||03/29/2019|
I shit you not, but sources are saying May's deal will get [italic]another[/italic] (fourth!) vote next week, pitting it against whatever option gets the most votes in the indicative voting process.
|by Anonymous||reply 132||03/29/2019|
Thanks r123 great article!
|by Anonymous||reply 133||03/29/2019|
I will never forget their arrogance when the negotiations started. Just you wait, I told them, because whomever you send to Brussels is going to get eaten alive by those pros. "But we holds all the cards!!1!" Would be funny if it weren't so sad...
|by Anonymous||reply 134||03/29/2019|
This is so exciting! Am loving all the political drama.
Firstly, we're not gonna leave without a deal. Parliament, even if it has to legislate for it will block no deal.
Secondly, I'm not sure any of the options to be debated on Monday will garner a majority. Customs union with a second referendum might, but it's possible that it doesn't. The PM may bring back another vote, but I'm not sure what good that will do as so many on her benches and the DUP will oppose it again.
Likely that Theresa May will go off and request a long extension, the issue is Parliament's reasons for it. The EU will probably grant it, but it's not a given.
Talk of a general election, although popular in the press, I don't think will happen. The DUP hold the PM hostage, they won't vote for an election and lose that leverage they have. Brexiteers might, but they would face deselection by the party. Even if there was a general election what would the parties manifestos be? Pro Brexit? Pro remain? Again you would have candidates from one party standing in remain and leave areas on the same manifesto. So I think we're stuck with this parliament.
Theresa May should be thinking about resigning after her government's 3rd defeat on their main policy. She won't. Who would take over? What would the point be? Who would want to take over? Boris Johnson or Michael Gove, both Brexiteers still wouldn't carry enough of their own party to get their vision of Brexiteers through.
So the whole thing is a complete and utter fucking mess.
Time for the pub.
|by Anonymous||reply 135||03/29/2019|
r135 May's deal might get through if she relents and combines it with a confirmatory referendum.
|by Anonymous||reply 136||03/29/2019|
R136 Yes, that's possible, she would need Labour support. Think about the effect on the Tory party of having to rely on the opposition party to get through her deal. Those hard-line Brexiteers will go ape. It would split the party. There is no guarantee that May would agree to that, because she knows that the public would reject the deal and vote to remain. By agreeing to what is in effect a second referendum, she then opens herself up to the Scottish National Party demanding a second independence referendum too. So yes, whilst it is possible, it would come at a terrible political price.
|by Anonymous||reply 137||03/29/2019|
Weekend at Theresa's
|by Anonymous||reply 138||03/29/2019|
As an American, and a liberal who might be more inclined toward Labour than the Tories, I honestly feel badly for Theresa May.
She was a Remain person, but she took on the herculean task of managing BREXIT because every other choice seemed ridiculous. She's tried to manage it so that the will of the people is complied with, but the break does not cause undue disruption to trade or an issue with the one place there's a physical border. And she's been foiled every step of the way by a lack of consensus in parliament.
And blamed for that, because she can't get these people, who apparently utterly refuse to compromise, to compromise.
When I mention this on forums, I usually get lambasted by people who detest her because she's a Tory, or because she's not Tory enough. But what else could she have done?
|by Anonymous||reply 139||03/29/2019|
Well, it’s obvious the petition and march had zero effect. Both were meaningless non-events. I hope those who participated in them realized the world doesn’t work like a Micky & Judy MGM musical during the early 40s.
|by Anonymous||reply 140||03/29/2019|
She has many faults, but I agree with you R139. She took on an impossible job.
We had an advisory referendum that voted to leave the EU. The general election she called brought a hung parliament. That meant that the majority party was not in a position to implement to will of the people.
So whatever she did, whatever she negotiated was never gonna please anybody.
Contemporary history will judge her as Britain's worst Prime Minister, but I'd love to see how she'll be judged in a hundred years time.
|by Anonymous||reply 141||03/29/2019|
[quote]a hung parliament
|by Anonymous||reply 142||03/29/2019|
r140 WRONG. Both the march and the petition resulted in Tusk saying these remarks. Gestures like those send a big message across the channel.
[quote]In a stirring intervention on Wednesday, the European council president praised those who marched on the streets of London and the millions who are petitioning the government to revoke article 50.
[quote]Tusk said: “Let me make one personal remark to the members of this parliament. Before the European council, I said that we should be open to a long extension if the UK wishes to rethink its Brexit strategy, which would of course mean the UK’s participation in the European parliament elections. And then there were voices saying that this would be harmful or inconvenient to some of you.
[quote]“Let me be clear: such thinking is unacceptable. You cannot betray the 6 million people who signed the petition to revoke article 50, the 1 million people who marched for a people’s vote, or the increasing majority of people who want to remain in the European Union.”
[quote]To heckling from Ukip MEPs, Tusk went on: “They may feel that they are not sufficiently represented by the UK parliament, but they must feel that they are represented by you in this chamber. Because they are Europeans.”
|by Anonymous||reply 143||03/29/2019|
The "Because they are Europeans.” is an interesting phrase.
I wonder if people who want to keep their European Union nationality, post Brexiteers will be allowed to by the EU, unilaterally?
|by Anonymous||reply 144||03/29/2019|
r144 Seriously doubt it as it would mean one-way freedom of movement, and that's something no country in the world would agree to. These rights in the event of a no-deal will probably only extend to those Brits currently living in the EU. Which is still more than the UK is prepared to do with the EU citizens living in the UK, who will need to file a request and have it approved one by one. Even if they've been living in the UK for thirty years now.
That's also why so many have been filing for Irish passports.
|by Anonymous||reply 145||03/29/2019|
R145 True. I just thought it was interesting language from Tusk.
|by Anonymous||reply 146||03/29/2019|
R143, you live in a dream world. Tusk was always going to say what he said. The petition and march meant NOTHING.
|by Anonymous||reply 147||03/29/2019|
|by Anonymous||reply 148||03/29/2019|
May's problem is that she's really bad at being PM.
|by Anonymous||reply 149||03/29/2019|
If "really bad" means "not being a complete miracle worker," then maybe.
|by Anonymous||reply 150||03/29/2019|
Not enough time to have a General Election before April 12th, then?
|by Anonymous||reply 151||03/29/2019|
Every strategic move she's made, she's lost.
I mean, she thought she'd end up in a strong position with a snap election, and then ended up losing her majority and being stuck in bed with the DUP.
|by Anonymous||reply 152||03/29/2019|
Lovely people on both sides.
[quote]Speaker - "a veteran" - at the UKIP event now recalling execution of Charles I. "We are a peaceful movement but our weapon is the vote. You will vote for the executioner’s axe"
Are they... are they implying QEII is going to lose her head if this doesn't end up going the way they want it to go?
|by Anonymous||reply 153||03/29/2019|
^ UKIP is made of complete nutters. I've never heard of a sane person joining UKIP.
|by Anonymous||reply 154||03/29/2019|
The whole thing is like a giant 3 dimensional game of chess.
It's so complicated.
|by Anonymous||reply 155||03/29/2019|
What a mess those British tories have created.
|by Anonymous||reply 156||03/29/2019|
The best way for Theresa May to get a deal at this point would be to threaten to cancel Article 50. The other 27 countries in the EU will immediately pony up a pile of money to convince the PM to do anything but that. And who could blame them for trying?
|by Anonymous||reply 157||03/29/2019|
Can she even do that?
|by Anonymous||reply 158||03/29/2019|
She can but she would look insane because she's been saying since 2016 that she intends to deliver on the result of the referendum. If anything, the next prime minister might pull that move.
|by Anonymous||reply 159||03/29/2019|
Brexit is for dummies. Nothing makes sense. Give up Britain. Crash out. Pick up the pieces later and get on with it.
|by Anonymous||reply 160||03/29/2019|
She won’t revoke Article 50. She promised to deliver Brexit. If Article 50 was revoked there would be civil disorder. It’s much more likely that the UK will crash out with No Deal. Even EU ministers are resigned to that eventuality.
|by Anonymous||reply 161||03/29/2019|
"Civil Disorder"? You mean like the oh-so-impressive Gammon March that had, er, 70 people at one point? It would make more sense for a new referendum to be called. A GE would be a dramatically frauish last gasp (after all, this tit called an election after she was made leader of the party and lost her fucking majority in Parliament). Crashing out is *not* in the UK's best interest and she - and the other Tory cunts - know this.
The only good thing Treeza May is good at is painting herself into a corner.
|by Anonymous||reply 162||03/29/2019|
From a UK commenter on the Balloon Juice blog:
There’s been perfectly understandable confusion expressed here, by more than one commentator, wondering why the British Parliament doesn’t just ‘cancel’ Brexit. The sheer weight of evidence showing how damaging any form of it will be is so clear, the level of corruption (including foreign funding and meddling) surrounding the 2016 Referendum is so obvious, the scale of the divisions it will leave in British society are so terrifying – why on earth are the democratically elected representatives of the British people still going ahead with it in the face of all that? What’s wrong with them? Why do the British people stand for it?
It’s a fair question, so let me answer it with another question.
Given the huge damage that the Trump Administration is doing to America, and given that the level of corruption (including foreign funding and meddling) surrounding the 2016 Election is so obvious, and given that the scale of division Trumpism is causing in American society is so terrifying, why on earth haven’t the democratically elected representatives of the American people done the right and obvious thing and removed the Gelatinous Orange Pustule from office? What’s wrong with them? Why do the American people stand for it?
In both cases, it’s the same sad boringly predictable answer. The people who want to stop it are a majority within the country, and they might be a majority within the Legislative branch, but they are not a majority within the Governing Party. While the minority Party, which does have a (large) majority in favour of stopping the whole shit-parade, is a MINORITY, with a small minority of members within it (some of them in pretty senior posts) who don’t really want to stop it. It can’t force or win a vote to stop anything without substantial crossover support from members of the Governing Party, and the members of the Governing Party who think it should be stopped will not give that support unless they absolutely and unavoidably have to in order to save their own skins. They won’t even loan their votes to slowing it down unless they’re face to face with a sharp-fanged decision-point that they can’t avoid, and as soon as that vote has taken place it’s straight back into Line of Battle and clocks are reset to zero.
|by Anonymous||reply 163||03/29/2019|
Another obvious question, given the relatively simple proposition that Anything Else > This Parade of Gobshittery, is why there isn’t a majority within the Governing Parties to stop Brexit/dump Trump? Or, more realistically, why won’t the minority of elected members of the Governing Party who believe it/he should be stopped/dumped join with the minority Party to make it happen? Again, it’s the same answer for both countries. Fear. The very real and well-supported fear these elected representatives have of losing their access to high-status positions and post-politics employment in the ‘Studfarm for Past Favours’ sector if they don’t stick to the Party line; either through being deselected by the radicalised membership of their local Party branch, or by being denied electoral funding by the Party leadership.
How did seeing through Brexit/protecting Trump become unchallengeable Party policy? Well, that’s the result of decisions made earlier. They put themselves in this position through being half as smart and twice as cowardly as they thought they were. In the case of the Tory Party it was the decision to put a referendum on E.U. membership into its 2015 manifesto in order to finally lance the boil of Europhobic bastardy and give the slightly less insane leadership room to move on the European stage, a decision which blew up in Cameron’s face when the national vote of his Liberal-Democrat Coalition partners (who he was banking on to veto the idea of a referendum for him once they returned to office) completely cratered and the Tories actually became a majority Government with an obligation to meet their manifesto promises. While for the Republicans it was the decision to go all-in on Total Obstruction and White Power in the face of Obama’s tyrannical melanin levels, which led directly to the popularity amongst GOP Primary voters of the Birther-in-Chief and the mainstreaming of his brand of sneering, liberal-baiting racism.
Once those twin errors had achieved electoral ‘success’ the Parties were trapped within the ideological cages they represented. Cameron had to have a Referendum, the GOP had to have Trump as their candidate. Both were destructive decisions based at their inception on maintaining internal party-political unity at all costs, screw the greater good, but both were errors the respective Party leaderships thought they could get away with once the voting public – rather than the extremists within the Party electorate – got a good look at the reality of what they were offering. No one would be stupid enough to actually vote Leave/elect Trump, would they?
(Insert image of surprised looking bear crouched behind a woodland bush reading a newspaper with a prominent “Is the Pope Catholic?” headline)
|by Anonymous||reply 164||03/29/2019|
Enter Fake News and illegally funded campaigns aimed at leveraging widescale public fear of changing socio-economic realities and the ever-pulsing vein of white racism into a multi-tool for getting people to vote against ‘something’, against ‘anything’, against every bloody thing that pissed them off, because it was all THEIR fault and THEY needed to be taught a lesson. Enter compliant and complicit Media entities that wanted the drama and the controversy, that were so fixated on ginning up an eyeball-dragging horserace that they were quite willing to overlook overwhelming evidence of cheating on behalf of the ‘underdogs’ if it made for sellable conflict. In Britain, as in America, established and provable facts were put in the dock alongside barefaced lies and debunked conspiracy theories, with ‘so-called experts’ forced to justify and explain their entire field of expertise in 30 second soundbites while spittle-flecked nutcases in red, white and blue romper-suits were given uninterrupted airtime to puke-funnel any damned thing they wanted into the bemused face of a general public that were less informed at the conclusion of campaigning than they’d been at the start.
In the end the loudest shouters won. And while their shocked enablers in the establishment media turned all of their time and energy towards sending expeditions of bead-and-button carrying urban sophisticates out into the Wild to bring back precious recordings of the sacred ways and eternal truths underpinning the unspoilt, rough-hewn and not-at-all racist Homo Sal-in-Terra cultures who had delivered these electorally narrow but also – in a sensuously metaphysical sense that just flicked the hell out of every savvy, everything you know is wrong bean in the infotainment industry – somehow incredibly portentous and paradigm-shifting victories at the polls for White Suprema…(Editor’s Note – Are you sure you meant to say this?) …..Working-Class Populism, the Parties found themselves lumbered with the job of translating the cut-and-pasted ravings of comment section misanthropes into national and international policy. The ambitious and the deeply stupid flocked forward to take up the challenge, while the guilty sloped away to hurriedly change their shoes and deny in indignant tones any responsibility whatsoever for tracking bull-shit over the nation’s creamy carpets.
In both cases what we’ve had since is the result of putting nearly unfettered power over the nation’s present and future into the hands of utter fuckwits; people who achieved prominence in the field of fuckwittery by steadily building up a portfolio of crass stupidity, whining victimhood and uninformed wrongness for all to see, taking the retrograde side of every argument and proving themselves suitable for no post more challenging than bringing up the rear in a Human Centipede. But these are the people with the whip-hand in our respective Governments. We’ve got Brexiteers and you’ve got Freedom Caucus types. They may not have the numbers, but they’ve been empowered by their Party leaderships to set the terms of acceptable debate and that’s what’s killed any hopes of good government or compromise. It’s their way or… well… that’s your only option. They’ve been reborn as avatars on Earth for the Dark Lord Willadapeepul and their Word is Law. With the Right-Wing Media providing the songbook and the establishment Media happily humming along to the chorus their malicious lunacy has been given an unearned patina of plain-spoken common-sense and amplified across the nation with a result similar to sticking a trumpet up a hippo’s arse – it’s noisy, the shit goes everywhere and only the deeply kinky are smiling.
|by Anonymous||reply 165||03/29/2019|
So, basically, neither of our countries can have nice things because the Parties in Government are in the grip of ideological tractor-beams dragging them further and further away from reality, and the Media are either leading the way on behalf of their Europhobic publishers or are happy to go with them in pursuit of ratings and promotions. What this means over here is that, as the prospect of Brexit begins to resemble the ‘Libera te tutemet ex inferis’ scene from ‘Event Horizon’, the nutters are digging in their heels and making the choice for anti-Brexit Conservatives stark. They either break with the Party whip and grab onto the next available life-raft, whether that means backing a confirmatory referendum on May’s deal, revoking Article 50, or backing a Labour vote of no-confidence in the Government to force a General Election. They are the only people who can stop this, but in doing so they’ll break their Party for a generation and probably never win elected office again.
It’s in their hands. Even Theresa May says so.
|by Anonymous||reply 166||03/29/2019|
Can't the voters vote again? And UK can stay in the EU?
|by Anonymous||reply 167||03/29/2019|
r167 They certainly can but the argument goes "Where does it stop? Why not best of three?" Of course they conveniently forget to mention that the one in 2016 was the second referendum on the EU, not the first one, which was held in 1975.
|by Anonymous||reply 168||03/29/2019|
You’re an idiot, R462. Of course there will be civil disorder if Brexit is “called off.” Large amounts of working class neighborhoods voted Leave. Start living in the real world, dumbass.
|by Anonymous||reply 169||03/29/2019|
Interesting how Europe is reacting.
Rumours of Paris saying "Non!"
|by Anonymous||reply 170||03/29/2019|
Paris is angry because they said this is exactly what was going to happen, but UK's allies (Denmark chief among them) convinced him to be more charitable.
|by Anonymous||reply 171||03/29/2019|
R169 A second referendum is not a dumbass idea.
Twelve million people did not bother to vote in 2016 the total turnout was only 72.2% leaving 27.8% of the electorate (over a quarter) not having a say on a decision that will have an adverse effect on their lives.
Are the Leave camp afraid that these voters would now be motivated to have their voices heard and vote to stay? Or people who voted leave have now seen through all of the lies they were told (£300million a week for the NHS?).
Maybe the vote should have been compulsory? But it's not the way things are done in the UK.
Give the electorate the final say.
|by Anonymous||reply 172||03/29/2019|
NO, R172, a People’s Vote was already held in June 2016. That vote should be respected. Leavers won the referendum. Period.
|by Anonymous||reply 173||03/29/2019|
Who says Leave won't win again? Then you're just back to where you are now.
A general election will moreover just result in an even more hung parliament than the one currently making a fool of itself.
Just stop kicking the can further down the road and deliver on the referendum. Which was LEAVE.
|by Anonymous||reply 174||03/29/2019|
R173, if you are so confident of the 2016, why are you worried about another referendum?
|by Anonymous||reply 175||03/29/2019|
^ of the 2016 vote
|by Anonymous||reply 176||03/29/2019|
Brexit is a disaster, but I agree with this. Politicians are huge reason why Brexit happened in the first place, and why I think Leave would win a second referendum. They can't get shit done.
|by Anonymous||reply 177||03/29/2019|
The idea of another referendum is ludicrous. Parliament couldn't choose among eight options. What makes anyone think the public could? It's not a simple yes or no choice.
|by Anonymous||reply 178||03/29/2019|
R173 Remain did win First in 1975 and by a much bigger margin than leave did this time (67%). I don't understand what you are afraid of?
Suppose you could call it 'the best of Three'
|by Anonymous||reply 179||03/29/2019|
2.3 million old voters who were eligible to vote in 2016 have died since then. That's why the Leave campaign is so nervous - because they're losing the demographic game even without people changing their opinion, which they demonstrably are.
Furthermore, people in 2016 voted to leave in abstraction. They didn't vote for no deal, May's deal, customs union, or whatever else. None of them voted for all of the above. It only stands to reason to vote on a [italic]concrete[/italic] and [italic]only[/italic] deal that is now before them in a confirmatory referendum. If that fails, they should stop punting and leave immediately.
This is all so clear to those of us who live in countries where referenda are par for the course, rather than extraordinary events. The more you have them, the more people get used to them, and the more they understand how and when they're best used. The original sin was holding the vote in 2016 without presenting the voters with an actual negotiated deal. All confusion stems from that rookie mistake of letting the people vote on too complex an issue.
|by Anonymous||reply 180||03/29/2019|
If there were to be a vote (which I still don't think makes sense) then R180 is right: the referendum would have to be May's deal or no deal.
|by Anonymous||reply 181||03/29/2019|
r163, r164, r165 wins a prize for most clear-headed, cogent explanation for the current electoral problems in both the UK and the US.
A pox on the idiot(s) who keep saying "we could never have another referendum". How many times in how many ways does it have to be repeated that the referendum was held with very poor education about what it was and what it meant, and, most importantly, that it was to be an ADVISORY vote ONLY?
|by Anonymous||reply 182||03/29/2019|
The “marches don’t matter” troll is curiously silent on the matter of the ridiculous little “Leave” march today.
|by Anonymous||reply 183||03/29/2019|
R182, the questions remain. What is the question a referendum would ask? How does one structure a referendum around an issue with so many potential outcomes? If Parliament couldn't choose then could the people do so?
|by Anonymous||reply 184||03/29/2019|
I would add, it is pointless to go on about a "people's vote" without specifying what the question is they would be voting on.
|by Anonymous||reply 185||03/29/2019|
It's a dangerous precedent to set to nullify a referendum, essentially because people *didn't* vote, rather than on what side they did.
|by Anonymous||reply 186||03/29/2019|
Why are you sure that the new referendum would result in a different vote, R186? Because the second referendum would be a more informed one?
|by Anonymous||reply 187||03/29/2019|
[quote]What is the question a referendum would ask?
The same one the first one asked. All indications are that it would go down to a pretty sizable defeat, at which point everyone could take a deep breath and get back to their normal lives, having averted a catastrophe.
Alternatively, Parliament could accept that the referendum was non-binding and just do their fucking jobs and do what is best for their country. (Yeah, right, and while I'm at it, I want a pink unicorn.)
|by Anonymous||reply 188||03/29/2019|
R186 Wasn't the 2016 vote just an attempt to nullify the 1975 vote?
Would leave complain if we voted to rejoin in a vote say in 2025? (on much worse terms)
The whole thing is a mess
|by Anonymous||reply 189||03/29/2019|
Repeating the same question doesn't make a lot of sense. The clock can't be reversed. A vote would have to specify not just "leave", but HOW to leave. Otherwise a "leave" victory would simply leave us exactly where we are. Rerunning the 2016 plebiscite would be seen by the EU, and rightly so, as simply fatuous.
|by Anonymous||reply 190||03/29/2019|
So give it three options: Remain, Leave with May's deal (there isn't going to be a better one), or Leave with no deal.
|by Anonymous||reply 191||03/29/2019|
And if the three options split with no majority or material plurality, then what?
|by Anonymous||reply 192||03/29/2019|
Which Leave would define as 'cheating' as you would divide their vote...
|by Anonymous||reply 193||03/29/2019|
Apart from everything else, is there even sufficient time to set up another vote, much less define how it would work?
|by Anonymous||reply 194||03/29/2019|
[quote]Repeating the same question doesn't make a lot of sense. The clock can't be reversed.
Sure it can. Brits vote to cancel Brexit and the PM and Parliament cancel the whole thing. Done.
|by Anonymous||reply 195||03/29/2019|
[quote]Rerunning the 2016 plebiscite would be seen by the EU, and rightly so, as simply fatuous.
So? Who gives a fuck? They already think the whole thing's a shitshow and that the UK leaders are morons. And rightly so, in both cases.
|by Anonymous||reply 196||03/29/2019|
R195, except if they vote to leave again. Failure to consider that possibility led to the existing mess.
|by Anonymous||reply 197||03/29/2019|
[quote]Apart from everything else, is there even sufficient time to set up another vote, much less define how it would work?
Yup, the EU has already said that they'll grant a longer extension for this kind of thing, or even to set up a "softer" Brexit.
[quote] except if they vote to leave again.
*shrug* Then it's a hard Brexit. Done. But the likelihood of Brexit winning again is miniscule. The situation now is not what it was two years ago.
A followup referendum won't happen, of course, because May and her party won't allow it, as that would show them up as the hapless fools that they are. But the only reason to not hold another vote is political.
As for the multiple options, that's easily handled. You can give the public al range of options, then use ranked voting to determine the outcome.
|by Anonymous||reply 198||03/29/2019|
Yep. ranked voting could work in the situation.
|by Anonymous||reply 199||03/29/2019|
It's not in the EU's interest to 'allow' a No Deal Brexit. It most certainly isn't in the UK's interest.
It might be tempting for the EU to watch the UK suffer with No Deal but the truth is the repercussions would be too strongly felt in our neighbouring countries. I can see either the Withdrawal Agreement passing very narrowly next week or TM gets an extension then immediately resigns. The European Council meeting called for two days before the extended leaving date is purely to agree to another extension.
A deadline extension means we'd have to vote in European elections which makes things more complex. I can see a GE AND a second referendum in our near future.
|by Anonymous||reply 200||03/29/2019|
If any EU country were actually a friend of the UK, they would finally end the agony by vetoing any time extension. There's no perfect Brexit, so the UK should crash out and work with great speed with the EU to create a new free trade agreement.
|by Anonymous||reply 201||03/29/2019|
R201 That would be shooting themselves in the foot (much like the UK has done). A No Deal Brexit would be so catastrophic the effects would be felt immediately throughout Europe and would continue to be felt for a long time.
The EU knows this (much to their chagrin) which is why they've been indulging the UK's embarrassing political shambles all this time. It's still a possibility Brexit might not happen, which is what the EU (and an increasingly nervous population of the UK) wants.
|by Anonymous||reply 202||03/29/2019|
[quote]A No Deal Brexit would be so catastrophic the effects would be felt immediately throughout Europe and would continue to be felt for a long time.
It wouldn't be if the EU would allow the current free trade to continue for a period of time after the UK leaves the EU while trade negotiations go on . They are too bureaucratic and vindictive to allow such a simple solution.
|by Anonymous||reply 203||03/29/2019|
R203 It's not vindictiveness or bureaucracy, though. It's a matter of law. That agreement is conditional of EU membership and its associated rules. Deciding to leave the EU means you forfeit those benefits. It's not vindictive of the EU to not grant the UK benefits it doesn't grant to non-EU members. It's simple common sense. The sense of entitlement the UK has shown is staggering and we're starting to realise our mistake far too late.
|by Anonymous||reply 204||03/29/2019|
[quote]Deciding to leave the EU means you forfeit those benefits.
That's bureaucratic and vindictive, for what would only be a temporary transition.
|by Anonymous||reply 205||03/29/2019|
Brexit is toast. In five years time EU passport owning Brits will be sitting around their villas on the Costa del Sol swigging cheap sangria and laughing about the bullet they dodged.
|by Anonymous||reply 206||03/29/2019|
May needs to be toast. How could she negotiate an agreement without knowing whether or not her own party would support it? That's incompetent.
|by Anonymous||reply 207||03/29/2019|
r203, you have a strange sense of what unions and agreements mean. Imagine if all the United States decided to go their separate ways, because getting along and compromising and dealing with a federal government was just becoming SO DIFFICULT, but "oh, by the way" , we want complete freedom to travel to all the other states, no push back when we want to take lucrative industries away from other states, the full defense offered by the combined resources and people from the other states, all of the laws from our state honored in all the other states, the right to use all the transportation systems that go through other states for our business and people, the raw materials produced in other states to freely come to our state for further manufacture, etc etc etc The US form of government involved a HUGE amount of compromise when it was founded . Everyone recognized that you had to give up a little bit of autonomy when you agreed to join a larger entity, because you recognized that the benefits far outweighed the negatives.
The British Brexiters attitude, as expressed by r203: "I want 100% autonomy, but all the rights, privileges and benefits of belonging to the Union......."
|by Anonymous||reply 208||03/29/2019|
R208 It's especially outrageous since the UK has already had so many concessions granted. It's practically a part-time member with full-time membership benefits and still we're asking for more special treatment. The EU has been incredibly patient up to now.
|by Anonymous||reply 209||03/30/2019|
Democracy means being able to change your mind. We have referendums every 4 to 5 years. They're called general elections.
One Parliament cannot tie a future one down. This is the crisis we have between an advisory direct representation of the referendum, colliding with representative representation of our MPs in Parliament.
Imagine honouring the referendum and exiting with no deal and after 2 years or so our economy is on its knees and we have little choice but to rejoin. That would have to be put to the people in some electoral form.
We have a deeply divided population, we have parliament hung and divided on party lines also split. It's a bloody mess.
|by Anonymous||reply 210||03/30/2019|
Earlier this week, during his final speech as MEP in the European Parliament, Scottish MEP Alyn Smith declared: "Every party in Scotland, except from the Conservatives, is united around the view that the best Brexit is no Brexit."
"Scotland is a European nation", he said. "If we are removed from our family of nations against our will, against our clearly democratically expressed view, independence will be our only route back. Chers collègues, I am asking you to leave a light on, so that we can find our way home."
|by Anonymous||reply 211||03/30/2019|
R209 Is right. We have negotiated all sorts of opt outs from the € to rebates to all sorts.
The 2016 decision to leave is fine. It's the fact that politicians, so used to negotiating those opt outs haven't been able to exit the UK on acceptable terms. The alternative no deal exit, is economic suicide. It is such a mess.
|by Anonymous||reply 212||03/30/2019|
Leave is stupid. There’s nothing to be gained.
Also, how come May gets four votes on her shitty withdrawal agreement but we only got one vote? She’s allowed plenty of do-overs and we can’t get one decent vote on the thing.
|by Anonymous||reply 213||03/30/2019|
Here's the thing. Let's say that we do leave the EU. Let's be realistic - our quality of life would instantly degrade and would degrade to the point where in, say, ten years there's sufficient demand for re-entry to the EU. Let's say the EU give us that re-entry. The already-sweet deal we've negotiated for *decades* with the EU would cease to exist. We'd lose the pound. We'd lose our right to refusal to join Schengen. Schengen is a far greater threat in the conservative's eyes than the Euro, believe me. Rejoining the EU would dramatically change the political landscape of the UK beyond current recognition.
If we stay, we do so with a steadily-declining number of whiny Leave voters who either die off or just abandon any thought of being part of British democracy (which is actually not a new thing either, by the way). I hate to be that cunt, but I'm going to be that cunt for a few minutes here. I'm from a working class suburb. I grew up hearing all the crap arguments blaming the EEC then the EC then the EU for loss of jobs, of Poles then Slovaks then Romanians coming over here and taking our jobs. Thing is: I chose not to be caught up in that shitswirl and I went to University and I got a fucking education. Here's the hilarity of the EU and the bigots who hate it. They whine about it - but they drive on roads that are part-funded by EU infrastructure grants. They complain about foreigners, but they go on holiday to EU countries and enjoy easy access to those countries *thanks* to the EU. They moan about foreign food, but these lowlifes fill up their shopping trolley at ASDA, Tesco, Lidl and ALDI with food from EU countries at low prices afforded by being a member of the EU.
If we leave? All of those privileges, all of those rights, all of those fucking CONVENIENCES vanish. Those cunts would know that if they spent a bit more time reading and learning (like, er, I did?) and less time swigging beer and moaning about Vlad from the Czech Republic taking their job. Yes, dear, a man from the Czech Republic with a degree in engineering *is* naturally going to be more attractive to an employer than some council trash from a sink estate with a fucking standard grade in PE. Piss off now.
Treeza's a fucking lunatic if she somehow thinks pushing this "deal" for a *fourth* vote is somehow going to pass. We need to get rid of the cunt.
|by Anonymous||reply 214||03/30/2019|
R213 I agree with you.
Essentially the leave vote was "we don't like Polish people coming here and taking our jobs and taking our doctor and hospital appointments and if we vote leave the NHS will get £350m".
The remain vote was "everything is cool"
We should vote again.
|by Anonymous||reply 215||03/30/2019|
r212 It was a different time when you negotiated all those opt-outs and the world has changed since then. "Acceptable terms" is another loaded term that - judging by Wednesday's indicative vote - means all sorts of things to all sorts of people. So no, the question in 2016 was stipulated all wrong; the government should have negotiated a deal first and then put it up to a vote. Or said in advance they're going to use a confirmatory referendum on any deal.
But hindsight is always 20/20. Who knew this would become such a mess. Add to that the delusions of grandeur and you have the perfect storm of over-inflated expectations, clashing against the cold hard reality.
|by Anonymous||reply 216||03/30/2019|
One of the biggest lies spun by the Leave camp is that the EU dictates our immigration levels. That's bullshit. Immigration is a sovereign concern controlled by individual states and not the EU Parliament. Oh, they can tut and complain, but we never lost control of our borders pre-2016. In fact, one can point to recent data suggesting that extra-EU immigration into the UK has *increased* since the fucking Referendum, not *decreased*. Don't blame the EU - blame Westminster for the immigration fuck-ups.
|by Anonymous||reply 217||03/30/2019|
It's so hard to see anyway out of it.
No one is going to be happy and the issue is going to be with us for years to come.
We're so divided between leave and remain, the two sides seem totally irreconcilable.
|by Anonymous||reply 218||03/30/2019|
But it is not irreconcilable, R218.
Since the referendum in 2016, several million elderly British citizens have gone to the big pub in the sky. And several million young British citizens have come of voting-age. The matter is reconciling itself of its own accord.
The Brexiteers know that. This is, in large part, why they are fighting so hard to get their brexit now. With each new day, but numbers are less in their favor. The last best day to leave is always yesterday.
|by Anonymous||reply 219||03/30/2019|
r15 AHAHA "I've got nothing but respect for May ... She reminds me of that knight in Monty Python" WW for Rutte!
|by Anonymous||reply 220||03/30/2019|
r214 and others - is it clear in the UK where the EU funds are spent? In Ireland, you can't swing a cat without hitting a sign saying "this infrastructure project funded with EU support" and an EU logo.
|by Anonymous||reply 221||03/30/2019|
R221 It's not sign-posted in the same way as the EU-funded projects in the UK aren't as obvious as the infrastructure projects in Ireland. Most EU funding in the UK goes to farming and fishing subsidies with a large chunk of the rest going toward research and education.
|by Anonymous||reply 222||03/30/2019|
Farming and fishing subsidies. Oh, my!
It's about to get awfully expensive to feed one's self in the UK, n'est-ce pas?
|by Anonymous||reply 223||03/30/2019|
Interesting development, Dominic Grieve who is an ardent remainer but representing a constituency that voted leave, has lost a confidence motion and may be not be able to run as a Tory in that riding come the next election. Now it appears other leave voting areas with remainer MPs are looking to do the same. As I predicted, the hard-right elements in the Tory party are going to cease control.
|by Anonymous||reply 224||03/30/2019|
[quote]No one is going to be happy and the issue is going to be with us for years to come.
Not necessarily, particularly with the clusterfuck that this has become. If sanity rules and the process has halted, the only people who will be unhappy are the hard-core, far-right nationalists, who are never going to be happy, no matter what. Fuck 'em.
|by Anonymous||reply 225||03/30/2019|
Well, it's not that easy to write off a large portion of the electorate, especially for Conservatives who have been peddling the Brexit issue for years. This is why I think it is fine to see the UK leave. The politicians have been griping about the EU for decades, so here is their chance to show they can do better. I wish them luck, but at this point I'm not sure that remaining is a viable option.
|by Anonymous||reply 226||03/30/2019|
They'll just move onto another thing to gripe about, R226. Brexit won't solve that.
|by Anonymous||reply 227||03/30/2019|
I had done a thought experiment on what will happen if they successfully separate from the EU. It could get ugly - when tariffs are slapped on everything and free trade goes the way of the do-do.
Recall to Britain is a nuclear power. That's the scary part.
|by Anonymous||reply 228||03/30/2019|
There was an OpEd piece in the NY Times last weekend that captured the Lewis Carroll-worthy illogic behind Brexit perfectly:
"So we’re all agreed: In our bid to “quietly make history,” we would prefer a deal that does not in fact exist and for which there is no time left to negotiate because we’ve spent all of our time getting a deal we don’t want, meaning that now we’re readying ourselves to sidestep the humiliation of a deal we don’t like by accepting the ruin of a non-deal we don’t like either. We are, in almost every sense, on a plane to nowhere, and because we have nowhere to go, we have to convince ourselves that nowhere is exactly where we wish to be.
With nothing meaningful to say about our future, we’ve retreated into the falsehoods of the past, painting over the absence of certainty at our core with a whitewash of poisonous nostalgia. The result is that Britain has entered a haunted dreamscape of collective dementia — a half-waking state in which the previous day or hour is swiftly erased and the fantasies of the previous century leap vividly to the fore. Turning on the television or opening Twitter, we find people who have no memory of the Second World War invoking a kind of blitz spirit, or succumbing to fits of self-righteous fury because someone has dared to impugn the legacy of Winston Churchill."
|by Anonymous||reply 229||03/30/2019|
I think if the UK left the EU the EU wouldn’t still be in its current form when the UK would be trying to rejoin. It would be substantially weaker.
|by Anonymous||reply 230||03/30/2019|
r230 it will be substantially more integrated and the UK's current opt-outs will look antiquated
|by Anonymous||reply 231||03/30/2019|
R219 Yes that's exactly it.
The whole thing is a mess.
Monday we have more indicative votes. If any do get a majority. Then further debate on Wednesday when it's rumoured Theresa May will try for the 4th time to get her deal through. If a customs union does get backing, then it will divide Tory Brexiteers.
It's hard to see any way forward. May won't quit. No one wants to force her out because no one wants the damn job. There's no time for a new Tory leader election. If a vote of no confidence were to be passed in her, we'd have the rediculous prospect of Theresa May leading her party into a general election as the party of Brexit, that failed to deliver Brexit. We'd have a Labour party fighting it on a pro leave basis having failed to leave. The remain Independent MPs are only just forming their party. So gawd knows what a general election would do to resolve things. It's a mess.
|by Anonymous||reply 232||03/30/2019|
However this ends my fear is we're going to end up with Boris Johnson as the Tory leader.
|by Anonymous||reply 233||03/30/2019|
Johnson or Michael Gove. No way will that Sajid guy be PM.
|by Anonymous||reply 234||03/30/2019|
Won't be either of them. It'll be Javid or Hunt.
Bojo is popular but divisive.
Gove is a 🐍
But that won't happen until the summer/autumn party conference season. May will cling on as long as she can.
|by Anonymous||reply 235||03/31/2019|
Uhh, R235, she’ll be gone by June.
No fucking way will Javid be PM. The country will vote Labour before that would happen.
|by Anonymous||reply 236||03/31/2019|
Who's going to make her go?
|by Anonymous||reply 237||03/31/2019|
R129 British people traditionally have treated Irish Catholics like shit. That is not just England but Scotland as well. Why would any Briton care about citizens of The ROI in NI or in Britain itself. It(Brexit) is about British people not people who are citizens of another country. Unless the South of Ireland wants to rejoin the Union?! Though that won't happen because the Irish haven't questioned being the lackey of Berlin properly.........
|by Anonymous||reply 238||03/31/2019|
R231 That is where the British fucked up. I don't blame The North of England for voting leave but the upper crusty elites should have known better. The rebates were a special deal The UK got and should have been happy with. I know that people were pissed at Polish immigration and the refugees and German domination, but cooler heads prevail.
|by Anonymous||reply 239||03/31/2019|
And, R238, you would have them be the lackey of Westminster, instead?
|by Anonymous||reply 240||03/31/2019|
but cooler heads should have prevailed.
|by Anonymous||reply 241||03/31/2019|
R240 You fell into my trap! I wrote that to elicit such a response. I have family in The UK and in Germany and Germany really gives a shit about itself. The Germans pushing their cruel austerity was extremely evident after the crash of 2008. As an example of how one group of people avoided Germany's cruelty I submit: Scotland. Many Scottish realized that independence meant changing their aegis from London to Berlin. Scotland has done pretty well under British rule Germans have no historical or political tie to Scotland and wouldn't mind letting Scots suffer The stereotypes of Scottish being cheap are quite abound in Germany. Which is funny because Germans are extremely frugal themselves...to an embarrassing fault.
Many Irish people have left Ireland since 2008 because of the dire circumstances. They are going to places like Australia which is not in The EU at all! Like it or not The UK and The Rep of Ireland have a close relationship. despite the past British occupation, the British are aware of that history. Whereas the Germans have a far more distant and crueler view of Ireland.
|by Anonymous||reply 242||03/31/2019|
Everyone is to blame for this mess.
|by Anonymous||reply 243||03/31/2019|
R238 R242 You are very, very stupid.
|by Anonymous||reply 244||03/31/2019|
I think you fell into your own trap, R242. It's a trap that follows you around and into which you fall frequently. It's a trap composed of a surfeit of righteous indignation and a paucity of careful thought.
Everything about your post gives you away.
|by Anonymous||reply 245||03/31/2019|
R244 You are lower than mere stupidity! You know less than nothing you guttersnipe. bad job indeed.
|by Anonymous||reply 246||03/31/2019|
R240 You live in a fantasy. I live in the real world. What Germany did to Ireland, Spain, Portugal and Greece was very cruel. The austerity was grossly unfair. Greece was portrayed as some kind of Anti-Christ Nation by Merkel and her cabal. It was not. Southern Italy is the biggest fucking mess in Europe yet Germany treated Italy with kid gloves compared to the other countries. A complete farce if you ask me.
|by Anonymous||reply 247||03/31/2019|
The EU has been a phenomenal success-Germany and France have not gone to war in over 70 years.
However the issue of political union, and tax harmonisation are anathema to many people and the EU is alienating citizens.The beauty of Europe is its diversity, and trying to eliminate those differences is frankly stupid.
What fucking chance do Macron and Merkel think they have of forcing people who speak 24 different languages to unify, when Belgium is torn between French and Flemish speakers, and might split, and Spain is a multiplicity of smaller states some of whom want independence?
Britain has never understood Europe and never understood Ireland.
|by Anonymous||reply 248||03/31/2019|
Most Germans thought that The Irish took the austerity lying down < unlike other EU austerity victims who protested ,The Irish didn't and just immigrated!
|by Anonymous||reply 249||03/31/2019|
R248 There are plenty of British people of Irish descent. The Beatles(even Ringo) had Irish descent,The smiths, Billy Idol,Johnny Lydon etc so on. They have had plenty of empathy and understanding of the plight of The Irish. Those people of Irish descent in Scotland, England and Wales have a great understanding of Irish Catholic history and its suffering.
|by Anonymous||reply 250||03/31/2019|
And Elvis Costello, r250.
|by Anonymous||reply 251||03/31/2019|
Uhh, [R235], she’ll be gone by June.
I'm not sure she will. Ever since she lost the Tories their majority in June 2017, people have said over and over again that "she'll be gone by the end of the week" every time she does something stupid. It never happens.
|by Anonymous||reply 252||03/31/2019|
R247 never want to upset the Camorra.
|by Anonymous||reply 253||03/31/2019|
R252 is right.
No one is going to force her out because they don't want her job, because they know that delivering any sort of exit plan would be virtually impossible with this Parliament.
If they did, then Tories aren't going to vote for a general election, knowing that they face losing. The DUP won't vote for a general election as they're holding the government hostage.
Even if Parliament does get its act together, there's no guaranteeing that the PM will implement it.
For all the bluster about "taking back control", it'll be the French that will force the issue with a simple "Non" when we ask for an extension. That will force us to no deal out or revoke our exit.
Then the shit will really hit the fan.
|by Anonymous||reply 254||03/31/2019|
What's happening tomorrow, Brexit-wise?
|by Anonymous||reply 255||03/31/2019|
Some vote May will lose, no doubt.
|by Anonymous||reply 256||03/31/2019|
R253 Actually no. The Ndrangheta of Calabria is the most powerful mob in Italy by far. The Calabresi have been low key compared to The Neapolitan Camorra and The Cosa Nostra from Sicily.
|by Anonymous||reply 257||03/31/2019|
May is hosting a summit on knife crime at one point during the day. That should end well.
|by Anonymous||reply 258||03/31/2019|
The Sunday evening blues that poor Mrs May must get.
|by Anonymous||reply 259||03/31/2019|
[bold]Germany Blames ‘Silver Spoon’ U.K. Elite for Brexit Chaos[/bold]
[quote]“Brexit is a big shitshow, I say that now very undiplomatically,” [Germany’s deputy foreign minister] Michael Roth said at an event of his Social Democratic Party in Berlin on Saturday. He accused “90 percent” of the British cabinet of having “no idea how workers think, live, work and behave” and said it would not be those U.K. politicians “born with silver spoons in their mouths, who went to private schools and elite universities” that will suffer the consequences of the mess.
[quote]“I don’t know if William Shakespeare could have come up with such a tragedy but who will foot the bill?,” the German diplomat said. His comments come just days after hard-Brexit champion Jacob Rees-Mogg, who attended Eton College and studied at Oxford University, derided a fellow Conservative lawmaker for having graduated from Winchester College during a crunch debate over the country’s withdrawal from the EU.
Well, things are off to a good start today.
|by Anonymous||reply 260||04/01/2019|
R260 and he’s not wrong. If a politician from the EU says even the mildest thing about the Brexit situation, the Brexiteers start frothing at the mouth in a livid rage. Yet, they can say the most inflammatory things about the EU, people who voted remain, etc., etc., and that’s ok.
|by Anonymous||reply 261||04/01/2019|
[quote] The EU has been a phenomenal success-Germany and France have not gone to war in over 70 years.
Well, that's a pretty low bar for a "phenomenal success". China and Japan have not gone to mutual war for 75 years either (ever since the Sino-Japanese War in the 40s). And they're not even in an overbearing, micro-managing EU-type union, they just have simple, reasonable trade agreements.
|by Anonymous||reply 262||04/01/2019|
That "overbearing, micromanaging" union is the largest single market in the world and is slowly rewriting the global standards with the FTAs that it is signing left and right. It also appears to be the only one doing something about climate change, setting restrictive rules on fuel standards and banning single-use plastic bags, and the bee-killing pesticides.
No single country in the EU (not even the glorious UK) is big enough to achieve all of that on their own. Comparing them to China and Japan reveals utter ignorance of both of their histories. Of course Japan would be a peaceful nation after the nuclear holocaust and having its teeth ripped out by the US in its constitution. Christ, but the Leavers are some of the thickest creatures around.
|by Anonymous||reply 263||04/01/2019|
"Restrictive rules on fuel standards", R263? You mean the ones that Germany's OWN top companies conveniently ignored and violated (Volkswagen scandal)? The only reason an investigation was launched into them was because the US EPA discovered their scam and called them out.
Also, it's far easier to have restrictive fuel regulations regarding trade in continental Europe when most of them are not even fuel-producing states and have perpetual gas shortages anyway. It's like having restrictive timber regulations in North Africa.
As for banning plastic straws (i.e. switching them to bamboo and paper ones), the first company that I saw do this in England was ironically an AMERICAN one (nothing to do with the EU) - Whole Foods. Then many US-style hipster and yoga cafés followed suit. Britain is perfectly capable of dealing with these things, if it wishes.
And I mentioned the SINO-Japanese historic conflict. Interesting that you only focused on the latter. No one "ripped out teeth" from the FORMER. It's simply a sovereign nation that's smart enough to understand that there's little to gain by taking over Japan. They didn't need an EU-type Bureaucratic, Micro-Managing Union to reach that basic mutual understanding that's held up for 75 years now. (And both Japan and Germany were disarmed, so that comparison is valid.)
|by Anonymous||reply 264||04/01/2019|
[quote]Well, that's a pretty low bar for a "phenomenal success". China and Japan have not gone to mutual war for 75 years either (ever since the Sino-Japanese War in the 40s).
HUGE difference. France and Germany's rivalry for control of the continent was driven by needs to have influence and resources that were a zero sum game. It resulted in THREE wars in a less than seventy year period, including two world wars, and about a hundred million deaths overall.
China and Japan have had conflict in the past but they don't share a land border or that need to dominate the same resources. Their wars were largely due to Japanese imperialism.
So yes it is a remarkable victory for the EU that it turned two bitter rivals into extremely close friends. Only someone with an agenda would argue otherwise.
|by Anonymous||reply 265||04/01/2019|
R265, all these things are so meaningless. China and Japan don't share a land border, but Germany and France do - so what? They both managed to maintain cordial relations for 75 years (one with a Bureaucratic Union, one without, no difference). Plenty of conflicts happened without land borders, across oceans and continents (Falklands, etc). Germany was demilitarised and fully destroyed, so it didn't have much choice anyway. And even during the last conflict, the Germans took it comparatively easy on the French. They didn't march them all into work camps, or gas them by the droves in showers, or encircle whole multi-million cities and starve civilians to death (like they did with others). Of all the nations Germany fought with in the last conflict, it treated its neighbour, France, with the most relative leniency.
|by Anonymous||reply 266||04/01/2019|
Second round of indicative voting coming soon. Make sure you have the popron ready.
Climate protest in the gallery earlier today. Many cheeky double entendres by MPs ensued.
|by Anonymous||reply 267||04/01/2019|
Give it up, r266. You're so obviously a tool.
|by Anonymous||reply 268||04/01/2019|
I meant popcorn, not popron. God, I'm tired from watching this debate unfold in the House.
Voting is underway and the results should be announced sooner this time around, as the clerks have more experience now.
|by Anonymous||reply 269||04/01/2019|
I am officially obsessed with this clusterfuck that is Brexit (and I'm not even English).
Is there a live feed available from the voting in Parliament right now?
|by Anonymous||reply 270||04/01/2019|
[quote]Of all the nations Germany fought with in the last conflict, it treated its neighbour, France, with the most relative leniency.
You know someone is grasping at straws when he claims that the Nazi occupation of France in WWII "wasn't so bad."
|by Anonymous||reply 271||04/01/2019|
Please take your discussion of Post-war Sino-Japanese and Franco-German relations elsewhere.
We're trying to talk about Brexit here.
|by Anonymous||reply 272||04/01/2019|
Sorry but when someone claims that the enduring peace and close relations between Germany and France since the EU is no different than the peace between China and Japan (they hate each other but are separated by a sea), it's so demonstrably wrong, and absurd, that it's like ringing the dinner bell for me.
Although I'll give you that the claims that the de facto Nazi dictatorship in France 1940-1944 was "not so bad" do make it seem like trolling.
Also: Datalounge. People here will go off on tangents crazier than Boris Johnson's hair on a windy day. It's what Datalounge is for.
|by Anonymous||reply 273||04/01/2019|
r270 Yes! I'm watching it on this HD stream from The Guardian. Though the stitting is suspended currently.
Results are coming in an hour from now.
|by Anonymous||reply 274||04/01/2019|
Here's a nice feature from the parliament's website, which allows you to share the livestream from a certain point in time.
Click on the link if you want to relive today's commotion prompted by the semi-nude protest in the gallery.
|by Anonymous||reply 275||04/01/2019|
[quote]Is there a live feed available from the voting in Parliament right now?
|by Anonymous||reply 276||04/01/2019|
Results due in five minutes. Tune in if you want to see another spectacle.
|by Anonymous||reply 277||04/01/2019|
The Guardian stream upthread stopped for some reason, so here's one from the Parliament's official YouTube page. Not in HD, unfortunately.
|by Anonymous||reply 278||04/01/2019|
All four fail to get a majority. The customs union the closest one again.
|by Anonymous||reply 279||04/01/2019|
So they voted down every motion again?
This is unbelievably bizarre. Brexit was always going to be a clusterfuck, but not in my wildest musings could I have imagined that it would be THIS chaotic and humiliating.
|by Anonymous||reply 280||04/01/2019|
Customs union just 3 votes short of passing, and confirmatory referendum 12. That's way closer than May's deal.
|by Anonymous||reply 281||04/01/2019|
Well, that was a waste of time
|by Anonymous||reply 282||04/01/2019|
Was it, though? They're closer to a solution than ever.
|by Anonymous||reply 283||04/01/2019|
Closer to a solution than ever, indeed, r283. And only three years after voting to leave (and three days after they were scheduled to have left).
What an achievement!
|by Anonymous||reply 284||04/01/2019|
I think the Scottish MPs might have tanked the customs union option because Scotland NEEDS the single market for their economy to work properly, particularly taking their demographic picture into account.
|by Anonymous||reply 285||04/01/2019|
r284 But that's only because May insisted on negotiations in complete secret and only said what she wanted late last year so as not to show her hand to the EU! This isn't the parliament's fault.
|by Anonymous||reply 286||04/01/2019|
It's up to the French now to say 'non' to any further extensions and delays, so that no deal becomes a reality on 12 April.
|by Anonymous||reply 287||04/01/2019|
R287, why is it up to the French? Did they say that today's vote was make or break?
|by Anonymous||reply 288||04/01/2019|
No, this week's vote is make or break. They still have until the end of the week to vote on May's deal. Her cabinet meets tomorrow in a marathon session to propose how to move forward. Possibly third round of indicative voting then coming on Wednesday.
|by Anonymous||reply 289||04/01/2019|
Wednesday seems like the final final crunch time. This from Guy Verhofstadt, the European parliament’s lead Brexit spokesman:
[quote]The House of Commons again votes against all options. A hard #Brexit becomes nearly inevitable. On Wednesday, the U.K. has a last chance to break the deadlock or face the abyss.
|by Anonymous||reply 290||04/01/2019|
France has been seen to be losing its patience over the British government's failure to come to any decision. This has of course been blown out of all proportion by the press since France famously said "non" years back on the subject of Europe and Britain.
The fact is that every EU member is hoping for the most comfortable solution since any kind of Brexit, be it hard or soft will have huge economic repercussions for the EU, the UK and the rest of the world. Everyone knows this which is why even the most vocal of the Leave brigade are shitting themselves right now.
|by Anonymous||reply 291||04/01/2019|
I think May's long strategy of running down the clock will pay off in the end. The MPs will be so nervous and fed up with it all on Wednesday, that they just might finally approve her deal.
|by Anonymous||reply 292||04/01/2019|
If the cabinet ministers had been allowed to vote and the SNP relented, the customs union would have passed today.
|by Anonymous||reply 293||04/01/2019|
Nope, R292, ain’t gonna happen. They have local elections in June and worry that their constituents will vote them out if they cave to a soft Brexit.
|by Anonymous||reply 294||04/01/2019|
R268, R271 and R273 are typical scaremongering fantasists. You really believe that if it weren’t for the bureaucratic EU, Germany and France would ‘annihilate’ each other? *Facepalm*
What, just like Britain and Turkey (old historic rivals) ‘annihilated’ each other in the last 75 years? Oh, wait - that never happened, you fantasists. Even without Turkey joining the EU, Britain and Turkey managed to keep things cordial over the last 75 years.
Typical ‘Doom and Gloom’ fantasists: “Oh, but if it wasn’t for the EU, Germany and France would, like, annihilate each other and there’d be no more French cheese or German Bratwurst!”. Germany was DISARMED. When a nation is fully disarmed - what are they going to fight with, rocks and sticks against French tanks? Enough with this EU mythology already.
|by Anonymous||reply 295||04/01/2019|
[quote] Since the referendum in 2016, several million elderly British citizens have gone to the big pub in the sky.
And when Irhe Majestät Lizzie Saxe-Coburg-Gotha-Battenberg joins them one day soon, all the nostalgic glory that conservative Brits wallow in will be dead, too. Her dullard offspring, utterly lacking any emotional connection with their subjects will soon expose the royal shit show for the sham it is. The hope is that Britain’s post-Brexit younger generation will finally turn them and the jackals in Parliament out. But getting there won’t be pretty.
|by Anonymous||reply 296||04/01/2019|
Apparently May's making ANOTHER televised statement this evening! Jesus Christ. Why does she keep doing this? For the attention? She never actually says anything that warrants the drama.
She's held a seven-hour meeting with the cabinet and, according to Twitter rumours, is refusing to give them their phones back until after her statement (because she doesn't anyone spoiling what she's about to say). I'd like to say this sounds too far-fetched to be true, but at this point it really doesn't.
|by Anonymous||reply 297||04/02/2019|
|by Anonymous||reply 298||04/02/2019|
May's statement over. She want another SHORT extension (which isn't even on the table), but only if Corbyn supports her deal. Or something.
This is too convoluted to put into words. Macron must be losing it right about now.
|by Anonymous||reply 299||04/02/2019|
r297 That part about no phones is correct, but is rarely done. Can't have cabinet members relaying information in real time to the whole Tory party via WhatsApp. It also forces people to focus.
|by Anonymous||reply 300||04/02/2019|
I loathe this traitorous cunt so much. So very much.
|by Anonymous||reply 301||04/02/2019|
Some quick analysis from @Peston, with a reaction from a Brexiteer Tory at the end:
[quote]PM says if she and Corbyn cannot agree a deal, then they should agree on Brexit options that MPs would then vote on. "This is a decisive moment". Feels very much like can kicking. Only thing that is clear is meaningful vote not coming back
[quote]This is @theresa_may and Cabinet trying to shift to Labour responsibility for a no-deal Brexit on 12 April. PM says it is no deal unless Labour negotiates responsibly
[quote]“This is the worst prime minister we’ve ever had”. Reaction of Tory Brexiter MP fearing this is a pivot to soft customs-union Brexit
|by Anonymous||reply 302||04/02/2019|
Eight hours worth of conferencing and all she came up with was basically: "It'll be Labour's fault should we crash out."
|by Anonymous||reply 303||04/02/2019|
Can someone who is familiar with the two year long process explain what is the problem with May? Clearly, she has no ability to negotiate, which is essential for a politician. And she is a weird combination of stubborn and indecisive. It's maddening.
|by Anonymous||reply 304||04/02/2019|
[bold]Two devices left on rail lines in suspected pro-Brexit sabotage plot[/bold]
Thoughtful people on both sides...
[quote]Police are investigating attempts to sabotage rail lines after two devices bearing pro-Brexit slogans were planted on train tracks. Two “malicious obstructions” were left on tracks near Yaxley, Cambridgeshire, on 21 March and at Netherfield, Nottinghamshire, on 27 March.
[quote]They bore the slogans “Government betrayal. Leave means leave” and “We will bring this country to its knees if we don’t leave”, which were printed, not handwritten.
|by Anonymous||reply 305||04/02/2019|
Probably a Remain plot to fuel anti-Brexit sentiments.
|by Anonymous||reply 306||04/02/2019|
Sure, let's go with that.
|by Anonymous||reply 307||04/02/2019|
[quote]Probably a Remain plot to fuel anti-Brexit sentiments.
Oh my sides!
This must be the same rancorous anti-EU troll who’s always on about the Brussels bureaucrats.
|by Anonymous||reply 308||04/02/2019|
Theresa May was an only child. Her parents were active in the Tory party. She literally grew up inside the party. She has no loyalty to Great Britain. She is Tory through and through. First, last and always a Tory.
Drag her out of Number 10 and get this Brexit nonsense stopped!
|by Anonymous||reply 309||04/02/2019|
R304, this is a brilliant analysis of May and her ultimately diligent (read dutifully stubborn) and unimaginative character. The reviewer, David Runciman, is blithely scathing of the most worthless politician England has ever seen.
|by Anonymous||reply 310||04/02/2019|
Leavers would be stupid enough to tamper with connections to the outside world.
|by Anonymous||reply 311||04/02/2019|
[quote]Probably a Remain plot to fuel anti-Brexit sentiments.
I was nowhere near the vicinity at the time.
|by Anonymous||reply 312||04/02/2019|
Apparently May is about to be told for 85th time that she has to go
|by Anonymous||reply 313||04/02/2019|
The thing about positioning it so they can dump the blame on Labour isn’t unsurprising as this government have acted in bad faith one way or another since Cameron called the bloody referendum. But it still staggers me how every time I think they cannot sink lower they do. I despise them utterly.
As a life long Labour voter I haven’t been too impressed with Corbyn but how anyone could vote Tory after all we have witnessed these past three years is beyond me. Whatever happens the country will remain divided and damaged for a long time to come.
|by Anonymous||reply 314||04/02/2019|
r313 I'm as gay as Christmas but that is one gorgeous woman.
|by Anonymous||reply 315||04/02/2019|
Some say the UK left on the 29th and is going to court to prove it.
|by Anonymous||reply 316||04/02/2019|
Regardless of the outcome of that (losing) court battle, no court is going to boot the UK out of the EU, retroactively or otherwise. There isn't a judge in the UK or in Strasbourg who would vote for that.
|by Anonymous||reply 317||04/02/2019|
R315 Keep telling yourself that............
|by Anonymous||reply 318||04/02/2019|
r318 Are you implying I'm bi? I've never been more offended in my life!
I've just always been a total slut for a well-executed bob. Bangs, even more so. And that lipstick... isn't she just radiating sex appeal?
|by Anonymous||reply 319||04/02/2019|
Next Friday is the official deadline now.
[quote]Jean-Claude Juncker, the European commission, president is confirming that next Friday has become a hard deadline for the EU.
[quote]Juncker says MPs must be able to approve the withdrawal agreement by next Friday, or the UK will face either no-deal or a long Brexit delay. This quashes the very faint prospect that the EU might have agreed another short extension to allow time for the deal to pass parliament. But, if MPs were to agree a deal by next week, Theresa May is hoping that the EU would agree to another short extension, lasting not beyond 22 May.
|by Anonymous||reply 320||04/03/2019|
[quote]This is worthy of Yes Prime Minister. Govt source on challenge of reaching agreement between Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn on a customs union: our position is a customs union but we don’t call it that. Labour’s position is not a customs union but they do call it that so the source says the challenge is to persuade Jeremy Corbyn to sign up to Theresa May’s non customs union customs union and not call it a customs union. This would put the UK in a customs union with the EU which would then not be called a customs union
This is beyond surreal now.
|by Anonymous||reply 321||04/03/2019|
It's clear they don't want Brexit to happen and that Theresa May has been given orders by her overlords (Merkel et al) to prevent Britain leaving the EU at all costs, coming up with one 'short extension' excuse after another.
|by Anonymous||reply 322||04/03/2019|
Brilliant commentary from an American perspective:
|by Anonymous||reply 323||04/03/2019|
I think "You can't fix stupid" is the most succinct analysis of the Brexit chaos I've read to date.
|by Anonymous||reply 324||04/03/2019|
Chris Heaton-Harris has resigned as Brexit minister saying "I truly believe we should have honoured the result of the 2016 referendum and left the EU on the 29th of March.”
|by Anonymous||reply 325||04/03/2019|
They should have stopped Brexit. They are all cutting off their nose to spite their face.
|by Anonymous||reply 326||04/03/2019|
Nicola Sturgeon, first minister of Scotland, replied to the article at R323:
|by Anonymous||reply 327||04/03/2019|
Thanks, r323, for that great article.
|by Anonymous||reply 328||04/03/2019|
Good representation of how Brexit is currently going:
|by Anonymous||reply 329||04/03/2019|
The comments under r323's article are great as well.
|by Anonymous||reply 330||04/03/2019|
Some little snowflake Labour voters are bristling on Twitter over the article claiming the party is veering toward Marxism. They’re saying shit like “Well, if I say that everyone deserves proper housing and education then call me a Marxist!” Hilarious.
|by Anonymous||reply 331||04/03/2019|
[quote] Politico reported the other day that the French European affairs minister, Nathalie Loiseau, had named her cat “Brexit.” Loiseau told the Journal du Dimanche that she chose the name because “he wakes me up every morning meowing to death because he wants to go out, and then when I open the door he stays in the middle, undecided, and then gives me evil looks when I put him out.”
Hahahahahahahaha, this is fucking brilliant!
|by Anonymous||reply 332||04/03/2019|
[quote]I think "You can't fix stupid" is the most succinct analysis of the Brexit chaos I've read to date.
As an American, it really pisses me off -- it's typical dunderheaded use of a slogan to sum up a complex situation.
Would Friedman, a complete asshole by the way, sum up the rolling disaster that is America under Trump the same way?
|by Anonymous||reply 333||04/03/2019|
It's a strangely gleeful article for someone who owes Britain so much.
|by Anonymous||reply 334||04/03/2019|
It gets to the point, though, R333. Sorry if it offends your taste for nuance.
|by Anonymous||reply 335||04/03/2019|
r332 The preview image that went along with that article posted at r34 still cracks me up.
|by Anonymous||reply 336||04/03/2019|
R336, hehehehe, me too now!
|by Anonymous||reply 337||04/03/2019|
It is so crazy to me that they have to clear the chamber and walk through those lobbies every time they vote on something as little as an amendment. How much time would have been saved by implementing electronic voting?
|by Anonymous||reply 338||04/03/2019|
I want John Bercow to holler “ORDER! ORDER!” as I cum inside him.
|by Anonymous||reply 339||04/03/2019|
[quote]Would Friedman, a complete asshole by the way, sum up the rolling disaster that is America under Trump the same way?
If so, he wouldn't be the first. The parallels are obvious.
|by Anonymous||reply 340||04/03/2019|
[quote]It is so crazy to me that they have to clear the chamber and walk through those lobbies every time they vote on something as little as an amendment. How much time would have been saved by implementing electronic voting?
Putting the Queen in a house dress and driving her up to the dias on a golf cart to open Parliament would save time too.
|by Anonymous||reply 341||04/03/2019|
r341 She does that once a year, so you're being obtuse on purpose.
And my point is completely vindicated by the fact that an MP brought that up at the end of today's debate and the Speaker agreed with him, saying he mentions this in his lectures across the country, but it is up to the House to ultimately decide if they want to go electronic or not.
|by Anonymous||reply 342||04/03/2019|
The House of Commons vote means nothing, the UK can still crash out without a deal.
|by Anonymous||reply 343||04/03/2019|
In the article at R323 I absolutely love the anecdote about a French minister naming her cat "Brexit". Anyone who has ever owned a cat would recognize the behavior, and it describes the British to a tee.
|by Anonymous||reply 344||04/03/2019|
There may be 300k French citizens in the UK but there's also 300k UK citizens living in Spain. But they never mention that.
|by Anonymous||reply 345||04/03/2019|
House of Commons closed today due to a water leak in the Chamber. You can’t make this shit up.
|by Anonymous||reply 346||04/04/2019|
It was a SEWAGE leak. Ewwww.
|by Anonymous||reply 347||04/04/2019|
No it wasn't.
|by Anonymous||reply 348||04/04/2019|
Yes, it was, R348. Make Google your friend, dipshit.
|by Anonymous||reply 349||04/04/2019|
R345, they never mention it because the Brits think they are superior to the Spaniards. At least in Spain R346 there are no leaking Parliaments and they are apparently poorer than the Brits, what does that tell you?
|by Anonymous||reply 350||04/04/2019|
The can (tin) is being kicked down the road to June 30th (30th June).
|by Anonymous||reply 351||04/05/2019|
Oh, no, not again?
|by Anonymous||reply 352||04/05/2019|
r351 She just hopes to kick the can down the road but has done exactly what the other EU leaders have told her not to do, i.e. request another short extension to try and pass a deal, while also ruling out European elections. We'll see if they agree to that outrageous demand on Wednesday.
|by Anonymous||reply 353||04/05/2019|
Can someone explain to me why the EU is allowing this procrastination? They hold all of the cards from what I can see. Why don't they set a firm date and tell the UK to come up with a deal by then or be out on their arse without one? Britain is behaving like squatters trying to hang on after their lease has expired and the landlord needs to come in and fumigate.
|by Anonymous||reply 354||04/05/2019|
I got this part wrong in my post, sorry:
[quote]May confirms the UK will now prepare for European elections - while hoping to agree a Brexit deal before 22 May that would allow them to be cancelled.
|by Anonymous||reply 355||04/05/2019|
r354 That's a question for Denmark and also Germany, who both keep opposing France's tough stance. Even they won't be able to justify these extensions for much longer, though.
|by Anonymous||reply 356||04/05/2019|
[quote]Putting the Queen in a house dress and driving her up to the dias on a golf cart to open Parliament would save time too.
Or the obvious alternative of sewing her into a burlap sack with a couple of decent size rocks and tossing her into the Thames.
|by Anonymous||reply 357||04/05/2019|
The debate on Cooper's bill (which would force May to beg for a long extension if faced with no deal) in the House of Lords yesterday was crazy. Every time someone proposed to end the filibuster, they had to perform a division [italic]twice[/italic] for each motion. And most of those old fucks are basically falling apart, so you can imagine it took a whole day just to break the filibuster as they had to keep shuffling in and out of the chamber. Third reading is on Monday.
If you're enraged by monarchy, you're probably also going to be livid at the fact that part of the filibuster was carried out by a hereditary peer - someone who is only there because his great great grandfather was appointed to HoL by Queen Victoria. And these people have the gall to whinge about the elected parliament in Strasbourg and Brussels.
|by Anonymous||reply 358||04/05/2019|
Well, that was quick. France says "Non!"
|by Anonymous||reply 359||04/05/2019|
Good for France. Enough of this shit. The UK doesn’t deserve any extensions or concessions. It should crash out of the EU without a deal.
|by Anonymous||reply 360||04/05/2019|
[quote]Can someone explain to me why the EU is allowing this procrastination?
BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT BRITAIN TO LEAVE!!!
How hard can it be to understand that?
|by Anonymous||reply 361||04/05/2019|
It's Brexit betrayal all the way, baby. I don't believe for a second that France will push the UK out of the union without a deal on 12 April. At least not until I see it happening.
|by Anonymous||reply 362||04/05/2019|
Salut Michel Barnier/r360 !
|by Anonymous||reply 363||04/05/2019|
Talks with Labour are breaking down and I shit you not, this is apparently what May offered them, via @Peston:
[quote]Am told that what PM offered was her deal with a restatement of role for parliament in shaping future deal (the Snell/Nandy plan) and guarantees on workers rights. Which Labour has said for weeks is not enough. Nuts
So the tiniest of crumbs, plus she demanded no talk of confirmatory referendum. Beyond ridiculous. She's fiddling days away from the abyss.
|by Anonymous||reply 364||04/05/2019|
Macron will end this with a no deal, he is beyond fed up , is one of the most ardent federalist in the EU, and has no romance from the UK. Mogg stating that the UK will be a thorn in the side of and cause as much trouble as possible for the EU if they have to go through to EU elections, will probably encourage Macron to deny the extension.
|by Anonymous||reply 365||04/05/2019|
[quote]Macron will end this with a no deal
Only it's not Macron's decision to make. He doesn't run the EU. Angela Merkel does.
|by Anonymous||reply 366||04/05/2019|
May is disgusting. She's so fucking selfish and desperate to hold onto power, that she won't step down. She's proved herself completely incompetent, but I guess she thinks there's no one else who can handle it — as if she's handled it at all. I've never seen a leader so hackishly desperate to hang onto power, other than some dictators.
|by Anonymous||reply 367||04/05/2019|
I don't get why the media use such stupid, unflattering photos like at R359.
|by Anonymous||reply 368||04/05/2019|
R361, no, not at all. It's because they're hoping there can be a smoother breakup, so that their businesses won't face massive disruption. They want the UK to leave at this point, for sure.
|by Anonymous||reply 369||04/05/2019|
You look just fine, Amélie. Powerful, even.
|by Anonymous||reply 370||04/05/2019|
[quote]So the tiniest of crumbs, plus she demanded no talk of confirmatory referendum. Beyond ridiculous. She's fiddling days away from the abyss.
She's obviously doing this on purpose so that she can blame Labour for having to ask the EU for a long delay. Theresa May never wanted the UK to leave the EU. Regardless of her shameless lies in the media and in parliament.
|by Anonymous||reply 371||04/05/2019|
Enough extensions. They can't be allowed to run candidates for the EU elections.
April 12 is the deadline. They'll be kicked out. Enough is enough.
|by Anonymous||reply 372||04/05/2019|
France, Spain, and Belgium have had sufficient. They're ready for the Danes and the Germans this time around.
[quote]France has won the support of Spain and Belgium after signalling its readiness for a no-deal Brexit on 12 April if there are no significant new British proposals, according to a note of an EU27 meeting seen by the Guardian.
[quote]The diplomatic cable reveals that the French ambassador secured the support of Spanish and Belgian colleagues in arguing that there should only be, at most, a short article 50 extension to avoid an instant financial crisis, saying: “We could probably extend for a couple of weeks to prepare ourselves in the markets.”
|by Anonymous||reply 373||04/05/2019|
They'll extend it to June 30. In the meantime Merkel will force everyone to give the UK endless extensions, so that'll kick in on June 30. She's like that. Appeases all sorts of terrible shit.
Kick the the fuck out. Now. The EU has other things to attend to.
|by Anonymous||reply 374||04/05/2019|
France, Spain and Belgium put no deal right back on the table at a meeting of EU27 ambassadors today. Saw nothing in Theresa May's letter to justify a long extension.
It looks like No-Deal IS happening.
|by Anonymous||reply 375||04/05/2019|
They'll extend it to when there won't be any Brexit left to implement.
|by Anonymous||reply 376||04/05/2019|
I always forget to mention the Dutch. They're by far the UK's biggest enablers in this shitshow...
|by Anonymous||reply 377||04/05/2019|
In your dreams, R376. A no deal Brexit ie what’s happening.
|by Anonymous||reply 378||04/05/2019|
Merkel will drag this shit out forever.
Without the UK, the Dutch, Sweden, and Germany won't be able hold back France et al anymore.
Get the UK out ASAP. They're such a mess of a country. Ugh.
|by Anonymous||reply 379||04/05/2019|
The UK isn’t really a European nation, anyway. It’s its own entity.
|by Anonymous||reply 380||04/05/2019|
The longer the extension, the further away the 2016 referendum gets and the more Leavers die off, and the weaker the mandate of that referendum becomes. Conversely, the need for a new - at least confirmatory - referendum grows with each passing day.
|by Anonymous||reply 381||04/05/2019|
That “Leavers dying off” concept is totally lame, R381, and bereft of actual statistical proof.
|by Anonymous||reply 382||04/05/2019|
In your dreams, r380. That's just more of that British exceptionalism that brought them into this mess in the first place. And good luck using that argument when India and China sit on their face during trade talks.
If only we could somehow keep Scotland in the EU. That should be the absolute priority.
|by Anonymous||reply 383||04/05/2019|
Can't link because it's from The Independent but there's data to back it up. Not understanding statistics =/= there not being statistics.
[quote]They show that demographic factors alone are causing the Leave majority to shrink by around 1,350 per day, or almost half a million a year. Crossover Day, when Remain moves into the lead, will be January 19 . By March 29, the day the UK is due to leave the European Union, the Remain majority will by almost 100,000 – again, assuming that nobody who voted two years ago has changed their mind.
|by Anonymous||reply 384||04/05/2019|
[quote]Merkel will drag this shit out forever.
What Merkel wants, Merkel gets.
|by Anonymous||reply 385||04/05/2019|
Germany appeases all kinds of shit.
|by Anonymous||reply 386||04/05/2019|
France is putting its foot down as that's what France does to the UK when it comes to the EU. They've always been at loggerheads over Europe.
The fact is that Europe as a whole doesn't want the UK to leave with No Deal. Some countries may prefer not to have to bother with the UK and its exceptionalism (for various reasons) but it's not in anyones interest for the UK to leave with No Deal. It'd be disastrous for the economy of the UK and, by extension, the EU. Some countries are being realistic about that but France (for various reasons) has to be seen to be putting its foot down. The idea of France screaming "Non!" is a political stereotype in the UK and other EU countries for a reason.
There are countless reasons why a disastrous Brexit would be very much felt on the Continent. There are at least an estimated 2 million EU citizens who'd suddenly either need to apply to remain (the wheels of which have already been put into motion) or would have to "go home". That's not even taking into account the huge effect on trade, free movement etc between the UK and EU.
|by Anonymous||reply 387||04/05/2019|
While we are talking about Europe, when is Germany going to make reparations to all the countries/families they destroyed in World Wars I & II?
|by Anonymous||reply 388||04/05/2019|
They'll pay using the money they get as reparations for the 18 million ethnic Germans who were driven out of their homes in Eastern Europe with the barely the clothes on their backs after WWII. (The ones that weren't murdered outright.)
So hold your breath, idiot Brexiteer at r388. Or just keep your head up your arse; that works too.
|by Anonymous||reply 389||04/05/2019|
R388 You might want to look up German Reparations for WW2. They very much happened.
|by Anonymous||reply 390||04/05/2019|
Go go do what R390 suggested, R388. We're waiting...
|by Anonymous||reply 391||04/05/2019|
All of them kick the can down the road. Like with dealing with the euro. It's the EU's forte, and Merkel's especially. Politics is glacial, with endless extensions. Of course the UK will get an extension — probably a yearlong one, as Tusk has proposed.
These are not decisive people. If they can delay, they'll delay. France will cave and allow for the delay.
And we'll hear about Brexit for another year at least. It's such bullshit.
|by Anonymous||reply 392||04/05/2019|
R392 What would you like to happen?
I bet I can guess.
|by Anonymous||reply 393||04/05/2019|
R393, I want a no-deal Brexit on 4/12/19.
I want the results of May's selfishness and incompetence to be realized concretely by every person in the UK.
I want David Cameron to once again face public ridicule for calling the vote.
I want the EU to actually take a stand on this and push the motherfuckers OUT. Let them come back in a few years as supplicants — and not be let back in.
|by Anonymous||reply 394||04/05/2019|
We touched a nerve here. LOL
|by Anonymous||reply 395||04/05/2019|
R395, that's like saying "We touched a nerve talking about Donald Trump."
|by Anonymous||reply 396||04/05/2019|
R394 You've never even been to the UK or Europe, have you?
|by Anonymous||reply 397||04/05/2019|
Of course I have, R397. I lived in the UK for two years, but that was in the 90s.
|by Anonymous||reply 398||04/05/2019|
R394 - why do you ‘want’ anything for us. You’re American, yes, given the way you write the date. I agree with you about May and Cameron but there are a whole load of us ( an actual majority ) who, in one way or another, did not vote Leave and will now have to live with others’ ignorance and shitty decisions for years to come.
You have something of a shitshow over your way and while I would not wish anything unpleasant or negative on you as regards that, perhaps you would be better off aiming your bitterness and vitriol in that direction. Glass houses and all that.
|by Anonymous||reply 399||04/05/2019|
R398 Did you have a horrible time? Were you disgusted by the black and brown people completely assimilated into British society? Did you not like hearing people speak with funny accents?
|by Anonymous||reply 400||04/05/2019|
R384 Indeed, plus I very much doubt many people are changing their mind from remain to leave. It’s the other way.
|by Anonymous||reply 401||04/05/2019|
R394, I'm with you.
|by Anonymous||reply 402||04/05/2019|
R400, the brown and black ppl are not assimilated in UK society (that's wishful thinking), if anything they are ignored, invisible, sometimes used as tokens (to be seen but not heard), other times deported (please see Windrush scandal).
|by Anonymous||reply 403||04/05/2019|
Or they end up on EastEnders as the D storyline.
|by Anonymous||reply 404||04/05/2019|
R403 That's simply not true. Non-white Brits (ie those who've been here for generations) are extremely well-represented in society, better than any other comparable Western country I can think of.
The Windrush scandal affected very few people. Less than one hundred were deported because of it and it isn't really relevant in terms of talking about how assimilated black and asian people are in the UK today.
If you're going to start talking about "no-go areas" (which do not exist) then I'm going to have to assume you're a fool who gets his ideas about UK society from YouTube.
|by Anonymous||reply 405||04/05/2019|
[quote][R394] - why do you ‘want’ anything for us. You’re American, yes, given the way you write the date.
Perplexes me as well. I'm American too and while I've always felt that Remain was the better course for the UK, it's really none of my fucking business. And I sure as hell don't want a messy BREXIT just to "teach anyone a lesson," because everyone will suffer, not just the Leavers.
|by Anonymous||reply 406||04/05/2019|
A No Deal Brexit would be catastrophic not just for the UK and Europe. It'd be felt globally. If anyone thinks a top ten economy crashing out of union with the world's largest single market wouldn't have far-reaching consequences, they're insane.
Leavers can hate EU bureaucracy all they want and probably have some valid points - I don't think even the most ardent Remainer would say the EU is perfect, but for anyone to be pushing for a No Deal Brexit has to be mentally ill. You can't just cancel decades of complex integration overnight and expect nothing to happen.
|by Anonymous||reply 407||04/05/2019|
Fear mongering alert @ r407!!!
|by Anonymous||reply 408||04/05/2019|
R408 Reality alert, more like.
Anything detrimental to the UK economy on such a scale is going to affect global markets. The EU economy will suffer and the Euro will plummet too, which is why the EU is tolerating the UK's filibustering.
|by Anonymous||reply 409||04/05/2019|
Here's my take, aka my guess, on what is happening. Talks between May and Corbyn seem to be at an impasse because May (and the Tory brexiteer majority) do not want the UK to remain in a full customs union with the EU. Meanwhile France, Netherlands and now Germany are saying they are ready and fine with the UK crashing out of the EU next week with no deal unless May comes to them on April 10th with a solution to this stalemate. I personally feel that EU leaders, with May's assistance, are attempting to make this into an our deal or no deal situation. The negotiations with Corbyn were nothing but a stall tactic given that May has not moved on anything. That being said, I also think -despite what R409 thinks - the EU is perfectly ready to let the UK crash out and they are at not bluffing. Since triggering Article 50, despite all the bluster of the leave camp that they would buckle to the UK, the EU has only made the tiniest of concessions on their red line while the UK has made numerous. The EU has a history of making decisions that in the short run have negative consequences for the block, but reap long term rewards. Allowing the UK to crash out of the EU with no deal will hurt the EU economy in the short run, but will secure the block by showing members what happens when a country tries to leave. A no deal will hurt the UK for a longer period of time than the EU.
|by Anonymous||reply 410||04/05/2019|
I feel as though the stage is being set for a no deal situation.
|by Anonymous||reply 411||04/05/2019|
[quote]A No Deal Brexit would be catastrophic not just for the UK and Europe.
It's not going to be any less catastrophic by postponing the hard Brexit. They just need to get it over with. No matter what the consequence, everything will bounce back in a short period of time. All financial calamities heal over time.
|by Anonymous||reply 412||04/05/2019|
A No Deal would be bad short term for the UK but that’s it. It won’t have global repercussions. R407 is being the worst kind of Chicken Little.
|by Anonymous||reply 413||04/05/2019|
The French run the EU. The Germans only pay for it. If France says no to an extension, there won't be one.
|by Anonymous||reply 414||04/05/2019|
And France WILL say no. The Brits and the French loathe each other.
|by Anonymous||reply 415||04/05/2019|
I don't know R377, Mark Rutte, the Dutch Premier wasn't too impressed. He has been very critical and vocal of the British Government and Parliament in the media.
|by Anonymous||reply 416||04/05/2019|
[quote]The French run the EU.
Don't be ridiculous. Germany and Angela Merkel run the EU. But I bet France and Macron hate it and crave to be top dog.
If France makes the UK crash out without a deal, it's not so much because they can't stand the UK, but that they want to stick it to that cunt in Berlin.
|by Anonymous||reply 417||04/05/2019|
R405, yes, that's the spirit! Yours is the kind of attitude that created Brexit in the first place: "The disadvantaged are not really poor they are just pretending!", "British Blacks that get killed by the police just really deserve it" "Islamophobia doesn't exist in Britain!", etc....Well done, dimwit.
At least once you break away from the EU, you would have you racist, xenophobic mess to contend with, within your borders and wouldn't bother anyone else with it.
|by Anonymous||reply 418||04/05/2019|
I fear the way our government in the UK, no to be fair our parliament too has handled brexit has turned us into a laughing stock around the world.
The brexit ultra politicians only have themselves to blame if brexit ends up not happening.
|by Anonymous||reply 419||04/05/2019|
I don't agree with the French and the Brits hating each other. What about the "Entente Cordiale"? The Brits are always imitating the French, from the language, to the food, fashion, philosophy, sociology, etc... and vice versa the French do the same thing, well not really about the food (LOL!) or the fashion....
|by Anonymous||reply 420||04/05/2019|
[quote]What about the "Entente Cordiale"?
One of the brief periods they faced a common threat. The French can never be trusted the way that the UK and US can trust each other.
|by Anonymous||reply 421||04/05/2019|
The 'special relationship' R421 has been debunked. Some ppl believe it was played up at certain times, such as with Reagan and Maggie Thatcher.
|by Anonymous||reply 422||04/05/2019|
The problem I think r419 is worldwide, not limited to the UK. We have it here in the US as well. Politicians are so at loggerheads with the opposing party they’d rather form a circular firing squad than hold their fire for everyone’s good.
|by Anonymous||reply 423||04/05/2019|
R418 you're not making any sense, mate.
|by Anonymous||reply 424||04/06/2019|
If there is a no deal Brexit disaster will the leave voters take responsibility? Will all those marching at the Leave Means Leave rally actually admit they fucked up their own lives and the lives of many remain voters.
Also this idea of "healing" is not going to happen, because you will have 16 million very angry remainers blaming 17 million unapologetic arrogant leavers.
|by Anonymous||reply 425||04/06/2019|
It is going to happen no matter what. They are so sure that British passports have already removed the EU lettering
|by Anonymous||reply 426||04/06/2019|
In the midst of this Brexit quicksand ,in which the UK is drowning voluntarily , still you hear the Gammon cries ' I want my Brexit! !!!!' Brexit is the UK version of the Us's Wall, same motivation of small minded xenophobia .same dumb supporters. Only fools and reactionaries voted for Brexit .Shitty politicians don't know what to do as they are having to deal with the mess they creatwd in live time. Usually their policies take years to have noticeable effect and they have long moved on to cushy directorships .Cameron got out as soon as he lost his anti UKIP gamble of a referendum . Hilarious that the Gammon's idea of Brexit being Britain's finest hour, Churchillian once more has turned into a clapped out clown car, wheels fallen off and steam escaping, being dragged ,pushed and kicked towards an ever receding finish line, you must be so proud Brexiteers .
|by Anonymous||reply 427||04/06/2019|
But they're not blue, r426!!!!
|by Anonymous||reply 428||04/06/2019|
Exactly, r426! So this is obviuosly fake news from the failing BBC!
|by Anonymous||reply 429||04/06/2019|
Sorry, my "exactly" agreement was meant for r428, not r426.
|by Anonymous||reply 430||04/06/2019|
Absolutely R425 The UK is tainted forever. The hapless May has periodically tried to rally the people to get behind Britain's decision and all pull together, that will never happen. Brexit will be under scrutiny at every hopeless stage, so far it is going as badly as any Remain voter feared. This vote has lifted the veil on who makes up Britain, what their attitudes are, lines have now been drawn and we all hate each other's guts. All this to please pensioners and hooligans.
|by Anonymous||reply 431||04/06/2019|
[quote]If there is a no deal Brexit
There won't be a no deal Brexit. It's all smoke and mirrors and fake news to make people THINK that there's no conspiracy going on to keep the UK in the EU permanently. The voters need to believe that their votes and referendums matter. But they don't. But the media is told to make them believe that.
|by Anonymous||reply 432||04/06/2019|
Not sorry you won't be getting your Brexit R432 I can't believe people like you still think it's a good idea.
|by Anonymous||reply 433||04/06/2019|
A no deal Brexit IS going to happen. Pay attention. The French will see to it that it happens.
|by Anonymous||reply 434||04/06/2019|
This has me a bit worried. Labour's Ruth Jones won Newport West (which voted leave in 2016) but by a much smaller margin than expected. The Tories scored their highest numbers in the riding for years with Jones winning by a 7% margin. It was projected that Labour was going to win the riding by double digits. If enough UKIP voters move to the Tories, Labour is in serious trouble.
|by Anonymous||reply 435||04/06/2019|
Whatever happens life in Britain has been spoiled R435. It's been a miserable three years and the ugly attitude that fuelled Brexit will not go away, decent people will have their work cut out dealing with ultra right wing shits for the foreseeable future. Reactionary pensioners, thick hooligans and careerist politicians have ruined Britain.
|by Anonymous||reply 436||04/06/2019|
Sounds like the US with our tea party and deplorables and vile GOP politicians. At least the UK isn’t awash in guns and people trying to make the Bible the law of the land.
|by Anonymous||reply 437||04/06/2019|
That's about the size of it R437 Basically, Brexit = Trump .There's nothing worth paying attention to R434 your ideas about France are just another opinion in the shit soup that is Brexit, nobody knows how this will work or what it will look like afterwards, something that should have been discussed in advance of the idiotic referendum perhaps?. The nutty Brexit at all costs suicide squad won't be happy until we are totally adrift and in their jingoistic minds 'free of the shackles' of the EU and able to go about the buccaneering business deals they think we are being kept from ( we had an empire and won wars! ). Sane people are doing their best to stop it and greasy politicians are their usual 2 faced selves trying to butter up each side with a view to career advancement. If no deal occurs it will be because of British incompetence, we set this mental rollercoaster in motion, we wanted out, the onus is upon us to sort it out, we've had 3 years of supposed negotiations and this embarrassing mess is the best we can do. The EU has been the arch right winger's bete noir since its inception, drip fed nonsense from the right wing media about bent bananas and Europe dictating pedantic rules has poisoned the dopy public over the decades so the background to the vote was always skewed in favour of leave. I noticed the Daily Mail was at it again the other day squealing about the EU taking our ham sandwiches off us at customs after Brexit, it's that kind of pathetic nonsense that fired up the 'will of the people'. These 'will of the people' characters are the same ones screaming to 'just walk away'. they are the types who see themselves as patriots, so proud of Britain, the jewel of fair play etc, but are quite happy to say 'fuck you' to a partner of 40 years, 'I'm off, you sort it out'. This has caused a nervous breakdown in Britain that it will always be scarred by.
|by Anonymous||reply 438||04/06/2019|
Let's focus on what's really important. The ray of sunshine I'm bringing to a dreary, dying country.
|by Anonymous||reply 439||04/06/2019|
[bold]EU27 ‘unlikely’ to veto delay[/bold]
See? It won't happen. There won't be a no deal Brexit next week. France is not going to veto any delays. Everything in the news is FAKE!
|by Anonymous||reply 440||04/06/2019|
I think Macon and the EU will throw the UK under the bus with hopes it will be a disaster for the UK, in turn strengthening the EU and dispelling the far right and anti-EU politics in their own individual countries. Voters will be warned off and too fearful to go down the Brexit road.
|by Anonymous||reply 441||04/06/2019|
I'm sure if they vote on May's deal 15 more times, law of averages says it has to pass eventually.
|by Anonymous||reply 442||04/06/2019|
r44, well there is that saying; democracy is an illusion to keep the masses at bay.
|by Anonymous||reply 443||04/06/2019|
They’ll give the extension for a year and kick the can down the road. Then the UK will have to hold EU elections. God only knows what will happen in the course of a year.
|by Anonymous||reply 444||04/06/2019|
Told you, dumb motherfuckers, including R397.
|by Anonymous||reply 445||04/06/2019|
I've said many times Brexit, even a "soft" Brexit, is something the EU doesn't want because it would be too disastrous.
The absolutely ridiculous scale of the knock-on effect of the kind of chaos a No Deal exit would bring is huge. It's so huge it's difficult to imagine just how many different ways people in the UK, the EU and the rest of the world's leading economies will be affected.
If Leavers had any understanding of that they wouldn't have voted to leave. Elected officials who voted Leave were so unaware of the complexities of the situation they hadn't even thought to consider the fact we have a land border with an EU country. They are actually that ridiculous.
|by Anonymous||reply 446||04/06/2019|
A lot can happen between now and Friday. Drawing any sort of conclusion now is just not sensible.
|by Anonymous||reply 447||04/06/2019|
May is a puppet of the EU. She does everything to put pressure on MPs instead of on the EU. She’s doing the EU’s bidding when she should be giving them a FU.
|by Anonymous||reply 448||04/06/2019|
R448, fuck off to some remote island.
Oh, I forgot, you ALREADY live on a remote island!
|by Anonymous||reply 449||04/06/2019|
R448 I'm no May fan, but she and the UK are in no position to give the EU a "FU". She's in the very unenviable position of having to limit the damage Brexit will cause.
|by Anonymous||reply 450||04/06/2019|
R448 = 50 shades of stupid.
And believe me, I know stupid.
|by Anonymous||reply 451||04/06/2019|
R448 = right wing troll
|by Anonymous||reply 452||04/06/2019|
Fortune favors the bold. If May would stop being like Chamberlain, and more like de Gaulle, things would be settled by now.
|by Anonymous||reply 453||04/06/2019|
[quote]A lot can happen between now and Friday.
Plenty of fake news will undoubtedly happen. But it's already set in stone that the UK will not be leaving. TPTB just have to give the impression in the media that "anything can happen" to try to keep the voters off any possible scent of conspiracy and treason.
|by Anonymous||reply 454||04/06/2019|
R454, it’s not “set in stone that the UK will not be leaving.” Stop lying.
|by Anonymous||reply 455||04/06/2019|
[quote]Brexit will be called off if the UK cannot decide on a withdrawal agreement, PM Theresa May says
[quote]May says that the longer it takes for parliament to decide on an exit strategy, the greater the chance of cancelling Brexit becomes
|by Anonymous||reply 456||04/06/2019|
The 52% who voted Leave will not accept that. Brexit will be delivered in some form. If it isn’t the civil unrest could be significant this summer.
|by Anonymous||reply 457||04/06/2019|
You are really, really, stupid, R448. Britain has no leverage to use against the EU.
|by Anonymous||reply 458||04/06/2019|
May will be canned if she tries to stop Brexit from occurring.
|by Anonymous||reply 459||04/06/2019|
R457 Many of them have joined the 48% who voted Remain. All this promised unrest will be a tatty Farage effort like the damp squib march he organized and hooligans of the Tommy Robinson variety just up for a fight. The problem is if Brexit fails to the relief of Remainers, the Leave voters will be as pissed off as the Remainers were before and on it will go, there is no compromise, we've condemned ourselves to years of wading thru this shit , it will most likely go on until it's irrelevant to most people and will fizzle out, but we'll be bored to tears with the ridiculous, unwinnable tug of war in the meantime.
|by Anonymous||reply 460||04/06/2019|
Keep your head in the sand, R460, see how far that gets you.
|by Anonymous||reply 461||04/06/2019|
Brexit has got us where exactly R461 ? Those brushing off dire warnings as 'project fear' are the ones with their heads in the sand. 3 years and nothing, we have none of the clamour to trade with us we were promised, the future looks uncertain , no sunny uplands whatsoever and the whole thing has made us an international joke. During the decades naysayers have been complaining about the EU shouldn't some ideas on how to extricate ourselves, without the kind of shambles we are stuck with, have been included ? But no, it was just complaining. We are now left fumbling and fudging along because there was , and is no plan, the whole thing was driven by jingoistic idealism. For those of us who wanted no part of this , it's heartbreaking to see the country torn apart.
|by Anonymous||reply 462||04/06/2019|
What if the queen died just as Brexit was happening? Britain would self immolate I think.
|by Anonymous||reply 463||04/06/2019|
The master criminals who own the European Central Bank fear Brexit because it is a step toward upsetting their plans for one single world government under the control of the central banks and policed by the private personal armies of those same banks: the UN and NATO. They know that once the rest of the EU sees how well the UK does without the EU then other countries will leave as well.
|by Anonymous||reply 464||04/07/2019|
Most Brits still say leave with NO 'deal'!
|by Anonymous||reply 465||04/07/2019|
R441, I think that is because even if there is a soft Brexit, Merkel and Co. can see that things will not go well for the UK camp. They are trying to avoid the EU being blamed in the future when the shit hits the fan in the UK. It's going to take the UK many years to recover from this Brexit nonsense.
|by Anonymous||reply 466||04/07/2019|
Sorry my post was intended for R440
|by Anonymous||reply 467||04/07/2019|
R454, you could be right
|by Anonymous||reply 468||04/07/2019|
In all honesty those leavers who say they will lose faith in democracy and never vote again; well that's probably a good thing. Britain would be much better off without those people casting their vote.
|by Anonymous||reply 469||04/07/2019|
I see the Dummies have taken the name of this threas to heart and are out in full force at the moment (see r448, r454, r468 and, of course, Erna).
|by Anonymous||reply 470||04/07/2019|
Maybe someone should propose a referendum to un-decimalize the pound.
|by Anonymous||reply 471||04/07/2019|
When we see who is for remaining we know that Brexit is the right choice.
|by Anonymous||reply 472||04/07/2019|
So if Brexit isn’t delivered will the Leavers who had voted Conservative switch and vote for Labour? I can see them doing it just out of spite because Corbyn is a piss poor leader as well as a Euro-skeptic.
|by Anonymous||reply 473||04/07/2019|
No, R473 they'll go UKIP or whatever right wing ,uptight option materializes that makes old farts like R472 hard.
|by Anonymous||reply 474||04/07/2019|
WTO hard Brexit is almost inevitable now.
Good for you, UK.
When the euro collapses, and the basket case that is the European Union falls apart, at least Britain will no longer be a part of that shit show.
|by Anonymous||reply 475||04/07/2019|
No R475 it will already be choking on the shit of its own making.
|by Anonymous||reply 476||04/07/2019|
I don’t think hard Brexit is a remote possibility. It’s fear mongering. The can will be kicked down the road via a long extension and eventually the thirst for Brexit will die down, as more and more of the old age pensioners who voted for it die off. The UK will be an EU country for a very long time.
|by Anonymous||reply 477||04/07/2019|
You obviously haven’t been following the news.
A second referendum has been definitively ruled out.
An extension is unlikely.
Hard Brexit is coming.
|by Anonymous||reply 478||04/07/2019|
How will you be celebrating R478?
|by Anonymous||reply 479||04/07/2019|
R479, either R478 is a troll or dislikes Britain so much he/she wants them to drown in their own vomit. Sure, Britain has a lot of enemies.....
|by Anonymous||reply 480||04/07/2019|
The criminals are not pushing for another referendum because they know that the LEAVE vote would be just as strong, if not stronger!
|by Anonymous||reply 481||04/08/2019|
Theresa off to Berlin and Paris tomorrow.
Chilling with Merkel, then to Paris to head off a 'non' from Macron.
|by Anonymous||reply 482||04/08/2019|
Tragically R480 there are still 'will of the people' nutters crying out for their blue passported, immigrant-free Brexit, even at this point they are still in the grip of project fantasy. Sad that the public includes such shitty people, swayed so easily by appealing to their prejudice.
|by Anonymous||reply 483||04/08/2019|
Human nature has some grave deficits, R483. Always has and it always will.
|by Anonymous||reply 484||04/08/2019|
Have I mentioned how fucked we are?
|by Anonymous||reply 485||04/08/2019|
But -- and this may be the ultimate petty irony -- the new EU-free British passports aren't even blue, r483!
They're still red. Red, I tell you!
|by Anonymous||reply 486||04/08/2019|
[quote]r478 You obviously haven’t been following the news.
There are no news to follow, because it's all FAKE. Have you ever watched an episode of the Kardashians or any of those other so-called "reality" shows? It's all SCRIPTED! They're just making stuff up.
France is not considering a 'non' to an extension. They just have the media write that, to APPEASE you.
|by Anonymous||reply 487||04/08/2019|
it's political correctness gone mad! Mad! R486 I have an old neighbour who hasn't left the country in decades who was asking me when the we get our blue passports, I asked what difference it made and it was all about the EU telling us what to do, I asked how that manifested itself and of course there was no detail other than utter conviction that the EU has it in for us, hopeless.
|by Anonymous||reply 488||04/08/2019|
R487 Bog off, you delusional old fart. Go to the supermarket and buy supplies of tin foil to make your hats with... quick, before there is a hard brexit and it’s all gone!
|by Anonymous||reply 489||04/08/2019|
New UK passport design:
|by Anonymous||reply 490||04/08/2019|
Pathetic. They're going to let the UK stay and interfere (waste time and resources, obstruct) for up to another year.
Some superpower. It's all Merkel.
|by Anonymous||reply 491||04/09/2019|
"May's hopes dashed." Biggest laugh of the century. Bitch is in on it. Traitorous cunt that she is.
|by Anonymous||reply 492||04/09/2019|
This new delay tactic will not sit well with a substantial portion of the British people.
And a General Election in the summer is now looking to be highly likely.
|by Anonymous||reply 493||04/09/2019|
De Gaulle said that Britain was incompatible with Europe, and he was right. The British people are never going to be Europeans.
|by Anonymous||reply 494||04/09/2019|
The master criminals who own the central banks oppose Brexit because they know it would be the beginning of the end to their dream of one single World government under the control of the central banks and policed by the UN and NATO.
|by Anonymous||reply 495||04/10/2019|
R493, let's hope so Brenda
|by Anonymous||reply 496||04/10/2019|
Can someone kick out the troll at R495? Erna and her strange conspiracy theories..........
|by Anonymous||reply 497||04/10/2019|
Erna and her strange obsession with shit........
|by Anonymous||reply 498||04/10/2019|
All of you saying "just wait for the Leave side to shrink and have another vote" are going down a very slippery slope in too short a period of time.
The problem is Theresa May. I don't understand why she isn't out--even if it took something unorthodox. (Not condoning assassination, but any other politician would've had something leak by now--pedo associations, rank racism, financial corruption, etc.)
The other issue I see from my side of the pond is there doesn't seem to be a backdoor negotiating channel, like there usually is with this kind of situation (like they had with the Peace Accord).
|by Anonymous||reply 499||04/10/2019|
Brexit is now being delayed until 31 October. A fitting date.
|by Anonymous||reply 500||04/10/2019|
What an utter embarrassment all this is, the great revival of British 'freedom' is an incompetent mess. We will never rid ourselves of this, whatever happens will piss off 50% of the country.
|by Anonymous||reply 501||04/10/2019|
Yes, OP, Brexit IS for dummies.
|by Anonymous||reply 502||04/10/2019|
See? I told you so. Marcon was told by Merkel to shut it and agree to a long delay, whether he wants to or not. Merkel and Germany run the EU.
|by Anonymous||reply 503||04/10/2019|
Why not? They're efficient and she's the most grown up of those bozos.
|by Anonymous||reply 504||04/10/2019|
[quote][R479], either [R478] is a troll or dislikes Britain so much he/she wants them to drown in their own vomit. Sure, Britain has a lot of enemies.....
R478 is a deplorable Bernbot (one can be both, I guess)
-- Can Bernie beat Trump?
[quote]If he had been the nominee in 2016, he might have been able to win. Trump will be unbeatable in 2020 because of the self-destruction of the Democratic Party.
[quote]Trump didn’t collude with the Russians, but Hillary and her staff did collude with the Democratic national committee to exclude Bernie. It is amazing that some people can accept fantasy as fact because it fits their beliefs, but refuse to even consider facts that would result in criminal prosecution of the perpetrators. Hillary stole the nomination from Bernie Sanders. Then Donald Trump beat the shit out of Hillary Clinton fair and square. Trump sucks, she just sucked worse.
|by Anonymous||reply 505||04/10/2019|
r503 He got a clause put in that there'd be a review of the deal in June based o how the UK conduct the European elections. The fuck that means practically I don't know, May won't and can't block the elections while we're in the EU. If the Tories don't want to take part that's up to them. But everyone else has the right. So seems pretty pointless.
|by Anonymous||reply 506||04/10/2019|
If I was a Brit I’d be enraged. This is no way to live. Because of the uncertainty businesses will continue moving over to Paris. Dublin, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, etc. Kicking the can down the road is a horrendous thing.
|by Anonymous||reply 507||04/10/2019|
Call me naive, but how in hell was this not all planned out before there was even a referendum? How were people supposed to know what to base their vote on?
|by Anonymous||reply 508||04/10/2019|
[quote][R503] He got a clause put in that there'd be a review of the deal in June based o how the UK conduct the European elections. The fuck that means practically I don't know,
It doesn't mean a thing. It's just for show.
|by Anonymous||reply 509||04/10/2019|
David Cameron should be imprisoned.
|by Anonymous||reply 510||04/10/2019|
'We've heard enough from experts' as Michael Gove ( creepy, ambitious, backstabbing nerd ) said on behalf of the government R508 when confronted by dire reports on what a post Brexit Britain would look like. 'We've heard enough from experts', and that has been the Brexiteer approach throughout. Who needs expert analysis when you have 'Land of Hope and Glory' playing a on a loop in your head while you dream of flying a spitfire over an immigrant free green and pleasant land?
|by Anonymous||reply 511||04/10/2019|
May really is the most desperately power-hungry yet completely incompetent shit.
|by Anonymous||reply 512||04/10/2019|
r509 It's a borderline Mayesque lack of diplomatic awareness though. demanding a pointless redline that can never come into play, and that no one else in the EU government, or even within France thinks is necessary.
|by Anonymous||reply 513||04/10/2019|
Britain has made a laughing stock of itself.
|by Anonymous||reply 514||04/11/2019|
R495, R498 , watch and find out who the real criminals are here. This is what the likes of Rees-Mogg are thinking when they are pushing for a hard Brexit.
|by Anonymous||reply 515||04/11/2019|
R510, it would have been enough for him to be shunned and ostracised, but in British society they wouldn't dare because they are in the grip of the Oxbridge mafia. Cameron, May, Johnson, Rees-Mogg, etc...all of them and any of the other ones who have attended that and other institutions (e.g. Eton, etc...) are untouchable. And the general public in the UK accept such predicament because they have swallowed the fiction that they are smarter than anyone else in the world....
|by Anonymous||reply 516||04/11/2019|
He told friends he was “bored s***less” at home, and quite fancied being foreign secretary in the next government, according to The Sun’s Tom Newton Dunn.
|by Anonymous||reply 517||04/12/2019|
My post at r517 was about what David Cameron is doing now... somehow it got mangled and only the quote got posted. Apologies.
|by Anonymous||reply 518||04/12/2019|
We're still fucked, but have got slightly longer to waffle on and not make any decisions until the next deadline.
|by Anonymous||reply 519||04/12/2019|
[bold]UK stands down 6,000 no-deal Brexit staff - after spending £1.5bn[/bold]
[quote]The government has stood down an army of 6,000 civil servants who had been preparing for a no-deal Brexit, at an estimated cost of £1.5bn.
[quote]The civil servants who had been seconded from elsewhere will now return to their normal duties, but there is no clear role for an estimated 4,500 new recruits after article 50 was extended until Halloween. More than 16,000 civil servants in total have been working on Brexit.
£1.5bn directly down the drain.
|by Anonymous||reply 520||04/12/2019|
But the Tories don't care about that, R520, so long as it is the money of the British public that is being wasted. Their own fortunes are safe and secure.
|by Anonymous||reply 521||04/12/2019|
May is so unbelievably stupid. Why is she so desperate to stay in office? Fuck....
|by Anonymous||reply 522||04/12/2019|
Be careful what you wish for because there are some true monsters waiting in the wings.
|by Anonymous||reply 523||04/12/2019|
[quote]De Gaulle said that Britain was incompatible with Europe, and he was right.
He also said that Algeria would be French forever. De Gaulle did not have a great track record on factual statements.
|by Anonymous||reply 524||04/12/2019|
[quote]May is so unbelievably stupid. Why is she so desperate to stay in office?
She has been told by her overlords and puppet masters that she must remain in office until a non-Brexit (i.e. a Brexit in name only) has been delivered, in case a Brexiteer takes over and actually honors the result of the referendum and the will of the people.
|by Anonymous||reply 525||04/12/2019|
I can't believe the 'will of the people' shit is still seen as valid R525
|by Anonymous||reply 526||04/12/2019|
It's not,R526. It has an empty rhetorical device only good for masking one's true feelings on the matter. NONE of those nutters are carrying on so because of a personal commitment to things being fair. They're not.
|by Anonymous||reply 527||04/12/2019|
The Cunt's diabolical sister to stand for Farage's party in European elections.
|by Anonymous||reply 528||04/12/2019|
Percentage of population identifying as "European", 1995 vs 2015
|by Anonymous||reply 529||04/12/2019|
The elite class in the UK wants out of The EU as quickly as possible. The EU is stopping a lot of the tax Havens and that effects a lot of the rich in Britain. Those people are propping Brexit up at all costs.
|by Anonymous||reply 530||04/12/2019|
R528, they are like a cancer, they are spreading.
[quote] After leaving school in 1997, she decided against going to a university and instead tried a series of different jobs, in journalism, investment banking, publishing, public relations, and stockbroking. She later said "I didn't go to university... I knew I'd have great fun, spend my parents' money, and do very little work. I was also bored with studying." In 1998, she moved with her family to Mells, Somerset.
This, according to wikipedia is her background. And now after working in journalism, she is turning to politics....
|by Anonymous||reply 531||04/12/2019|
R530, did you reach that conclusion after watching R515??
|by Anonymous||reply 532||04/12/2019|
Was May neglected as a child? Is that why she needs to be the center of attention and so clings to power? Or is she a sociopath with no understanding that she's not wanted anymore?
|by Anonymous||reply 533||04/12/2019|
|by Anonymous||reply 534||04/12/2019|
R533, she is needed to get the job done, because otherwise have you seen anyone else who is willing?
|by Anonymous||reply 535||04/12/2019|
Leavers are stupid and stubborn. She's representing them beautifully.
|by Anonymous||reply 536||04/12/2019|
I don't think the UK can be held captive by the EU forever. Someday, sooner or later, the UK will be free again. The problem is that there are a significant number of people who feel allegiance to a foreign power, as shown in r529's map, instead of to their own nation.
|by Anonymous||reply 537||04/12/2019|
No one is being held captive. Stop being dramatic, open a history book and see how the first two world wars happened. Jesus Christ, but the ignorance of the deplorafolk is astounding.
Also, it's 2019 - bigger nations like China and India, and nations already part of trading blocs (Mercosur, ASEAN) don't give a flying fuck to which country you feel the allegiance to and how strongly you feel it in your heart when it's time to talk trade agreements. It's all about your negotiating power and your negotiating power alone. The UK is not going to scare anyone with rusting nuclear submarines, the financial sector completely dependent on European passporting rules, and a manufacturing sector propped up by the Japanese.
As Elizabeth Warren once said and was quoted the other day by an MP in the House of Commons, "If you don't have a seat at the table, you're probably the one on the menu." Which is exactly what will happen to the UK once it's out of the EU. I know they can deal with a prolonged recession - even if it takes two decades or more - but they won't be able to deal with their diminished diplomatic standing on the world stage. Being told they're not important enough is their primordial fear and being unable to face that reality is part of what got them in this mess in the first place.
I hope they remain in the EU. They've already punished themselves enough by wasting mountains of cash that is never going to be recovered again. Not to mention all that GDP growth that went to waste, and during a global economic boom at that.
|by Anonymous||reply 538||04/12/2019|
No one is being held captive? The younger Britons who have grown up fully as Europeans may not agree. If they felt they were being kidnapped and held captive by the English ruling class who are pushing Brexit, who could blame them for feeling that way?
|by Anonymous||reply 539||04/12/2019|
[quote] No one is being held captive? The younger Britons who have grown up fully as Europeans may not agree. If they felt they were being kidnapped and held captive by the English ruling class who are pushing Brexit, who could blame them for feeling that way?
Are you trolling or are you criminally uninformed? The younger Britons, as you call them, overwhelmingly voted to stay.
[quote]This statistic shows the way in which citizens of the United Kingdom (UK) voted in the EU Referendum, the results are sorted by age group and gender. [bold]61 percent of males aged 18 to 24 years voted for the UK to remain within the EU,[/bold] whereas an equal 61 percent of males in the 50 to 64 age brackets voted in favor of a “Brexit”. The peak share came from [bold]women between the ages of 18 and 24, 80 percent of whom voted for 'Remain[/bold]
|by Anonymous||reply 540||04/12/2019|
[quote]No one is being held captive? The younger Britons who have grown up fully as Europeans may not agree.
They were free to emigrate to the continent, if they preferred to be European and not British.
|by Anonymous||reply 541||04/12/2019|
Sorry, R539!!! I misunderstood your post.
|by Anonymous||reply 542||04/12/2019|
R451 that all depends on 'the deal.'
R450 has reading comprehension problems.
|by Anonymous||reply 543||04/12/2019|
Never mind. Sorry. We're good.
|by Anonymous||reply 544||04/12/2019|
R514 can it be used in a stew?
|by Anonymous||reply 545||04/12/2019|
R537 = UKIP
|by Anonymous||reply 546||04/13/2019|
When they get their Brexit and push all the foreigners off their crummy little island, they'll be back to eating British food every day. Faced with a plate of baked beans and two cold sausages, they'll all be sorry they ever started this.
|by Anonymous||reply 547||04/13/2019|
Despicable people and politicians, the whole conservative lot.
[quote]Ukip has been ordered to fully reveal details of how it used nearly £300,000 of political data services in the run-up to the Brexit vote and the 2015 general election after the party lost a two-year legal battle to block disclosure.
[quote]An appeals tribunal found the political party, led at the time by Nigel Farage, failed to properly answer the information commissioner’s questions. It is now legally obliged to provide detailed answers to questions about how it spent political donations and used polling companies and data.
[quote]Last year the Electoral Commission found both the official Vote Leave campaign – in which Boris Johnson and Michael Gove played key roles – and the unofficial Leave.EU campaign guilty of breaking electoral law. The commission fined both campaigns and referred its findings to the police.
|by Anonymous||reply 548||04/14/2019|
"So chew on that because there'll be no fucking food."
|by Anonymous||reply 549||04/14/2019|
The Notre Dame fire will hasten Frexit, mark my words.
|by Anonymous||reply 550||Last Monday at 12:14 PM|
And... Charles & Camilla will be visiting Germany this summer. Hmmm.
|by Anonymous||reply 551||Last Monday at 12:59 PM|
Your words are not worth marking going by your other failed Brexit prophesies R550
|by Anonymous||reply 552||Last Monday at 3:04 PM|
|by Anonymous||reply 553||Last Monday at 3:19 PM|
R551, and your point would be...?
|by Anonymous||reply 554||Last Monday at 3:24 PM|
R550, I have a little conspiracy theory......the Notre Dame fire? Look no further than Britain. MI6 was busy that week. Could be payback to Macron? Who knows...
While UK politics is in a state of disarray, France poses a real threat to the British economy.
|by Anonymous||reply 555||Last Wednesday at 12:18 PM|
This article reveals the only Notre Dame - UK connection. Read it yesterday as it was linked in another article saying the same might happen to Westminster any day now, and it's just an astounding read.
The gif in the middle sent shivers down my spine.
|by Anonymous||reply 556||Last Wednesday at 12:26 PM|
Who will be Britain's next prime minister?
|by Anonymous||reply 557||Last Friday at 10:15 AM|
[quote]When they get their Brexit and push all the foreigners off their crummy little island, they'll be back to eating British food every day. Faced with a plate of baked beans and two cold sausages, they'll all be sorry they ever started this.
What is up with people like this? Remember there are millions of Brits who want to remain, and this sort of language insults them all.
|by Anonymous||reply 558||Last Friday at 12:07 PM|