Pelosi: NO IMPEACHMENT

She's right. It's a waste of time. Focus on uncovering fiscal crimes and on international money supporting him. There's a treasure trove there.

I'd rather see him indicted in a court than be impeached. I'd especially rather see him indicted in NY, not VA.

Probably can’t happen before the election anyway, and there’d have to be so much evidence GOP Senators would have no choice, in which case, he’d lose the election.

Am I naive to believe she's showing her poker face here?

"We did not want to impeach him but look how much evidence the Mueller Report produced!"

Nancy is playing chess. When I first read this I was upset, but goddamn if she isn't right. As usual.

At least, this is the correct position for her to put her two feet on at this moment. Then, if the Mueller report comes out with very damning evidence, she can act on it without looking like she was champing at the bit to impeach and just waiting for a reason.

Plus: She knows full well that THE SENATE WILL NOT CONVICT. So why not play it as if it's your hand -- you choose not to impeach because he's not worth it?

You have to hand it to her -- she's a master of realpolitik.

Pelosi has said this over and over OP. It isn't news.

Must be a boring day for trolling.

r4 Yes. She's not this kickass slay queen you Dembots have created in your mind. She's exactly what she is, a cautious centrist who kneels before everything that yields power, from Trump to AIPAC.

I pity r6, so much investment in a figure for NO RETURN whatsoever, now or in the future.

She's the only one who scares Trump. He knows she can fuck him over harder than the rest of them combined. And she will if she thinks she can go all the way.

I thought they can't impeach without the Senate which would never vote for it

I'm going to say this again: she's nothing but a centrist coward.

Stop fantasizing about 13-dimension chess games. She's playing no such thing. She is what she is - a Democrat who accommodates Republicans.

"unless there's something so compelling and overwhelming and bipartisan,"

That doesn't sound to me that she knows what's in Mueller's report.

Impeachment is a long politicly divisive and messy process it is cheaper and quicker to force him to resign. The SDNY has their knives out for Trump and his family let them take down the family of thieves.

Oh, go to hell, R11.

For the retarded illiterates who keep fucking op what impeachment is:

The House impeaches

The senate convicts.

You can be impeached but not convicted, like Clinton was.

Since the GOP senate won't convict Trump, what's the point of the House impeaching him? Clinton didn't resign after impeachment and neither would Trump.

It's a grandstand and a waste of time.

When I said she was weak and old news, I was called a pessimist.

Nancy "Impeachment is off the table" offers nothing and stands for nothing.

Democrats couldn't be obstructionist if you paid them

R12, Mueller's report isn't going to be some sort of grand slam that will get him out of office.

It's better you face the reality now. Orange Assclown is untouchable it seems

r16, how do you still not get it?

NOOOOOOO

The House needs to complete their investigations. There's smoking guns everywhere. The tax returns not being released, the numerous conflicts of interests alone are red flags that need to be dealt with. Democrats need to take a stand regardless of where it leads. Stop folding before the game is even over. Pelosi doing her usual tap dancing shit is disappointing.

R15 and R18 then there was no reason to bitch and moan for the last two years with your doom and gloom BS. And when Republicans elect someone worse than Trump down the line, you can keep your mouths shut as well. Because it's this stupid behavior that only keeps enabling Republicans and keeps giving us worse and worse Presidents.

Some of us get it. And letting the previous administration off the hook helped give us the fucking mess we're in now. It's you who don't get it and continue not to get it.

But hey, at least it's not a blow job!

I am very disappointed in that comment, because Pelosi doesn't say it like it is: It's all about the optics. Imeachment is the ultimate no-confidence vote in Trump and his presidency. The clear majority of the US has no condidence in Trump. They need their voice to be heard by the Democratic Party (the media refuses to do so for some reason ... because they are right wing owned?).

This pussy footing "Oh, we need (more) iron clad proof before we can act or make an informed decision" is just as shallow as Susan Collins' "concern". All the evidence in a no confidence vote is already out there. And FUCK the Deplorables and giving them the power to "break this country apart".

She didn't say "no impeachment". After all this time, I see some of you still don't speak Pelosi. Pelosi will go for impeachment *if* she thinks there's a shot at conviction--and that means two-thirds of the Senate is on board with it.

She left room for that in her comment, but she's pessimistic about it. Gee, can't imagine why.

What she's not going to do is the old GOP stunt of an impeachment vote that won't result in a conviction. You know what happened after Clinton was impeached? His popularity numbers rose.

Pelosi wants Trump out of office. A show trial won't give us that. It might give us the opposite. And, yes, Pelosi really does play three-dimensional chess. She's not Speaker because she looks good in a picture.

As for the idiot who keeps braying Pelosi's a centrist--that's not what her voting record shows. It's funny though to hear that after years of people whining about San-Francisco-Liberal-Pelosi.

Make up your fucking minds.

Sorry, The clear majority of the US has no confidence in Trump.

Of course, the stupid-ass 24 hour channels don't get it.

Even after winning the House back, Democrats STILL have no backbone.

Fuckin' wimpy party.

R21, Impeaching Clinton was a disaster for the Republicans. The ultimate no-confidence vote for Trump is to kick him out of office through the popular vote.

Too many of you confuse grandstanding with power. Just like no-wall Trump. Among other things, he's an incredibly ineffective president.

Bunch of halfwits with the memories of fucking goldfish. Who just got done bitchslapping Trump from left to right, repeatedly, across all global media? Wasn't AOC.

Boy this really rattled r8/r11/rWHATEVA's cage! Hahaha! She's posting up and down this thread!

[quote]She is what she is - a Democrat who accommodates Republicans.

You mean the way she accommodated Trump on the wall? Face it, she beat you. SHE KILLED YOUR GUY.

Impeachment won't work if Republicans aren't on board with it. One advantage Pelosi has is she's old enough to have been around for both Nixon and Clinton and she knows that offering Trump a backroom deal to leave quietly under his own power is the way to go. Also that that's not going to happen unless and until they're in a position to scare him so badly that self-preservation will overcome his monstrous narcissism.

Pelosi's being realistic. As others above have pointed out, impeaching Trump would be a waste of time since it wouldn't result in his removal from office. I don't believe 2/3's of the Senate would ever vote to impeach Trump, no matter how damning the Mueller report is.

I doubt Pelosi has been briefed on the report. But if she has, then I would interpret her statement today as it being VERY bad news for Trump Nancy = cat; Trump = mouse.

[quote] Impeachment won't work if Republicans aren't on board with it.

It's about the optics where the Liberal House kicks the ball into the Republican Senate's court and forces their hand. If they still side with Trump (after the release of Mueller's report) then it's up to the public whether they still support The Republican Party with their vote or not.

[quote]If they still side with Trump (after the release of Mueller's report) then it's up to the public whether they still support The Republican Party with their vote or not.

That's true whether there's an impeachment or not.

You people don't understand.

Pelosi is playing the long game. She's building a devastating case against Trump, but she's only going to act on it when he's at his most vulnerable: on 2020 Election Day. That day, she'll be waiting, before everyone all arrive, at the penthouse where the Republicans will have planned their reelection party. At her side: Robert Mueller. When the Republicans will have arrived, Pelosi will tell Trump, "Mr President, you can not contest this election, you have been impeached!" Following a royal gesture from her divinely delicate hands, Mueller will put the cuffs on Trump's wrists and escort him to jail, where Trump will share a cell with - Putin.

As it will have been too late for the Republicans to nominate another candidate, Kamala Harris will automatically be declared the winner of the election (Jill Stein will also be in Trump's jail and the Green Party will have repented its sins by this time and become the Democratic chapter of Ciswhitesville). Kamala will be taken to the podium by a cab drawn not by horses, but by Bernie Sanders, Ilhan Omar, and Susan Sarandon, while a very diverse crowd - more diverse than Bernie has ever seen - throw flowers and, um, hot sauce on the cab's path.

Kamala will climb up to the podium like a queen, where the House Leader will already be awaiting. Pelosi has a crown in her hands, and Kamala, the brightest smile ever seen by the crowd in her face. To no one's expectations, Pelosi, then, is going to drop a bomb: There is a secret article in the Constitution, and that article stipulates that, if a president is impeached, the presidency must be passed to the defeated candidate of the previous election. Everyone understands what that means. Suddenly, the crowd breaks in two, and a path opens to Hillary Clinton, on whom sheds a light that no one knows where it came from.

Overtaken by emotion, Hillary walks toward the podium: the presidency is hers - now until the end of days. She climbs the steps, but, to no one's surprise, she falls - or almost, since Kamala, with tears of happiness streaming down her face, extends her generous hands to prevent her predecessor and role model from rolling down the stairs like a football.

Pelosi extends her hands over Hillary's head, delicately placing the crown where it belongs. The crown is made entirely of diamonds, and its brilliance is such that Bernie, watching the scene from the crowd, loses sight permanently as he looks directly at it.

It's as if the 2016 election, stolen by Trump and Putin from its legitimate winner, never happened. Hillary, Pelosi, and Kamala will be happy ever after. And, um, the America, too.

Just have trust in Pelosi.

"I'd take that to mean she has been briefed on the Mueller report and found it lacking."

I'd take that to mean OP isn't too sharp.

[quote] That's true whether there's an impeachment or not.

But it makes it more difficult for them at the next election when they went on record siding with the criminal president.

This is about putting conservative voters so off that they rather stay at home than vote Republican.

[quote]And he’s just not worth it,

That's a much better thread title, OP. That Pelosi thinks he is not even worth impeaching. I hope that means she is confident about the presidential elections in 2020.

They’ll wait until he secures the nomination and then shortly before the election unleash on him insuring a Democratic victory

The Democratic Party needs to play dirty as fuck. Make AOC the attack dog riling up the liberal masses and media to vote like never before.

House Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff told CNN that he agreed with Speaker Pelosi and that a “failed impeachment isn’t a good idea” and that it doesn’t make sense to move down that road “in the absence of very graphic evidence.”

Preach it, R22. The totality of the politics needs to be considered.

I am sorry, but what is more important to the Democratic Party: Public opinion or the Republican Party reaching out to them? Bipartisan effort and action is a pipe dream that should've been abandoned a long time ago.

[quote]I am sorry, but what is more important to the Democratic Party: Public opinion or the Republican Party reaching out to them?

What's more important is voting Trump out in 2020. Impeachment has the potential to make that more difficult.

R41, as has already been pointed out, the impeachment process at a time when it would not succeed could very well give Trump the opportunity to rally his support and there is historical precedent to support that.

Trump's support would still be lower than the Liberal voting block who is pissed off at the Republicans for not kicking Trump out. The Republican Party needs to be put on the spot hard. And being on the record for blocking the Democratic Party's impeachment process would do that.

I don't want him impeached either. I want to see him lose his reelection bid, and lose majorly. I want him to go out with his head hanging in shame and embarrassment. If they started impeachment proceedings and Trump thought they had a good chance at doing it, he'd just resign. Then the fat fucker would be able to claim he had more important things to do. I want him to FAIL.

You're being naive R44. The truly liberal/progressive voting bloc is not as large as you'd like to think - Democrats come in many gradations of liberal.

Trump would like nothing better than to be impeached, since he plays the victim card to perfection and Republicans would eat it up. Whether you like it or not, we need independent voters to go Democrat in 2020 and the noise level from an impeachment would not help us.

We need to vote this fucker out, and as many GOP senators as possible.

In her phrasing, Madame Speaker is brilliantly signalling that she thinks he's a total piece of shit.

[quote]What's more important is voting Trump out in 2020

And has anything substantive (or anything AT ALL) been done to combat all the issues that were faced in the 2016 election? Are any safeguards in place to prevent these things from happening again in 2020?

At this point, do we even have a candidate that the party knows damn well can not only win but win in a huge margin that won't prevent election tampering from tipping the scales in the Republicans favor AGAIN? Because let's be real, none of the candidates so far are energizing a sizeable majority of the party.

Yeah, we had the blue wave in 2018, but it wasn't the massive blue wave that people thought it was going to be. People forget that. Republicans still got the Senate.

And BTW, conservatives always vote. There' s no way any of them are staying home on election regardless of what happens in the next two years.

.

The Senate will not impeach unless the evidence is so FUCKING HUGE that those Republicans in the senate will do so. He needs to be on his hands and knees sucking Putin's DICK.

2020 is what they do need to focus on.

Convict not impeach

She's saying it's not worth it because he's going to lose in 2020. I think she's correct.

[quote] You're being naive [R44]. The truly liberal/progressive voting bloc is not as large as you'd like to think - Democrats come in many gradations of liberal.

You honestly believe the hate for Trump and the Republican Party who backs and sides with this criminal is not enough for them to bond and unite against him?

I understand her position but I disagree. It's the principal. She's great for an OLD politician but the operative word is OLD DEMOCRAT. They ROLLED OVER on the theft of a Supreme Court justice. That was really really really really really SPINELESS. And Obama was spineless at the end of his term, with the Intel on Trump.

BAD BAD BAD old dogs.

principle

Probably R52, but registered Democrats make up less than half the voters out there. So they aren't enough in themselves.

She is correct. We can't get 2/3s in the senate.

R53 a minority party, as the Dems were, and are in the senate, has no power. For real.

For fun, though, check out the resumes of the lawyers she, Schiff, Waters etc have hired for their investigations into trump. Hahahahaha.

R33 Wow, how many orgasms did you get while writing that?

There are those here are seething for vengeance no matter if it winds up helping Trump in the longer term (and he would LOVE to be impeached so that he can play the martyr). This is why Pelosi is the Majority Leader and you aren't.

[quote] Probably [R52], but registered Democrats make up less than half the voters out there. So they aren't enough in themselves.

I find it difficult to believe that the so called independent voters are in support of what Trump and the Republican Party are doing right now. IMHO reaching out to them is more helpful than begging the Republicans to see reason and turn on Trump (and each other).

And let's be honest for a moment. Most of us are lazy as fuck and we need a serious (grease) fire under our asses to take action.

The hate for Trump, and the Republican Party, for keeping Trump in the White House must burn us so bad that it forces us to take action. The image of The Republican Party blocking every single attempt of the Democratic Party to seek justice for the lower and middle class, should unite liberals and independents to unite like never before. If impeachment fails because of the Republicans it's their fault. And it should piss people off that the Republicans let the US go to ruins for their own profit.

The people and the media should see the Republican Party members as what they are: Traitors. And what better way than to be the ones who block The Democratic's process for impeachment? To me it looks better for the Democratic to try and fail than to go "oh, what's the point? Better let Trump stay in the White House and let him more shit and hope for the best in 2020!!". The Democratic Party needs to play an even more active role than ever before. Not be defensive, but point out how each and every Republican is a traitor and call them traitors over and over again. Let the Repubican's whine about hate speech (being called traitors). Keep branding them as traitors. and shame their supporters for supporting traitors (to the point that they'd rather sit the election out because the message branding got into their head - and we know how easy it is for these Fox News idiots to be manipulated when you push the right buttons).

R59 is correct. It's the moral high road.

She's right. And I say this as someone who wants tRump removed from office as quickly as possible. The evidence has to be there to not only get him impeached but to get about 20 Repukes to vote to remove him from office. They're not going to remove him without overwhelming, uncontrollable evidence of his conspiracy with Russia.

He MUST be impeached so Hillary can become President like we wanted!

Does someone from the "Pelosi's a coward" side want to explain what you see as the benefits of impeaching Trump if the Senate won't remove him from office?

With presidential elections occurring so frequently, every four years, impeachment in the United States is not about removing someone from office. It's only used for political purposes, to punish someone of the other party. By the time the impeachment process ends, the 2020 election would have already come and went. The public will be the judge and jury.

r53, what the fuck were they supposed to with the supreme court justice? The same reason they can't impeach they don't have the power of the SENATE. Have NO POWER THERE.

Its a conundrum. Pelosi has a point. But if something is revealed in the next few months so HORRIBLE about Trump Inc, the house should vote to impeach, even if its impotent. It's the moral thing to do. Pelosi could THINK this now, that there's no point in impeaching, but IMO, she could just keep her TRAP shut and let all the investigations run their course. Crissakes. It will ONLY be based on investigation results so there is NO point in taking a stance now.

[quote]she could just keep her TRAP shut

What is she supposed to do when she's asked that question by the press?

What’s the cogent argument against Pelosi’s statement? What makes it bad?

[quote]Does someone from the "Pelosi's a coward" side want to explain what you see as the benefits of impeaching Trump if the Senate won't remove him from office?

Does someone from the "Pelosi's correct" crowd want to actually answer my questions?

Warm and fuzzy feelings about the 2020 election isn't enough to override doing what's right by the Constitution.

I thought Rick Wilson's analysis of this was smart. He is kind of annoying these days, but his tweets on this are worth reading. I don't know how to link to a Twitter thread, so I've linked to the first one in a series of 4.

What makes it bad is that there is a CROOK POTUS and their Republican peers let it ride.

Well she is definitely playing with Trump. This should put his guard down in order for Trump to screw up some more.

Nancys not going for impeachment R69.

She's protecting the legislature branch and going for indictments.

This is one of the attorneys she hired.

IF it's not impeachment, then it needs to be indictments. There needs to be some sort of accountability for this administration.

Just saying screw it and hope for the best for Dems in 2020 is unacceptable and ridiculous. And it will accomplish nothing in terms of dealing with the real problem at hand.

Exactly r74.

[quote] I'm going to say this again: she's nothing but a centrist coward. Stop fantasizing about 13-dimension chess games. She's playing no such thing. She is what she is - a Democrat who accommodates Republicans.

Word R11. DL is full of her ilk and the rightwingers who support them. They should form a political party.

Translation... Pelosi got a heads up on the Mueller report and it's an epic FAIL

[quote]I'd rather see him indicted in a court than be impeached. I'd especially rather see him indicted in NY, not VA.

And the moment he's convicted, I'd like to see Trump Tower come down like Mordor when the ring was destroyed.

Impeach him for WHAT? She knows there's nothing to impeach him for.

R79, the guy is in fact a criminal who has broken US law his entire life and done business with human traffickers among other things. Don't treat him like he taped a football game without the written consent of the NFL. Impeachment or not, he'd be in a prison cell right now if money didn't define "justice."

What utter BS, R80.

You really do need to get off Fantasy Island.

R81, WTF did I say that was incorrect? Are you so far up his ass you think he has never broken the law? Are you a foreigner or a flyover idiot? There's no way in hell you're in NYC, that's for damned sure. Really, STFU. Every NYer knows what he has gotten away with, you moron.

You are absolutely correct r80. Nancy and her centrist liberal Dems are guilty of collusion too

[quote]She's not this kickass slay queen you Dembots have created in your mind. She's exactly what she is, a cautious centrist who kneels before everything that yields power, from Trump to AIPAC.

I find it ironic that far-left AOC cocksuckers fail to realize they're using the same types of ridiculous tactics that Republicans have been employing for the past 20 years, e.g. attempting to demonize words that aren't at all slurs (e.g. "liberal" and "centrist"). And I say that as someone who *likes* AOC; I just hate her fanboys, much like I loathe Bernbots.

Pelosi correctly recognizes that ruling from an extreme pole gets you nowhere, whether you're Trump or a self-described socialist: the vast majority of the American electorate was, is and always will be centrist, and divide-and-conquer tactics never, EVER work, even if they create illusions to the contrary in the short-term. Trump will get what's coming to him - AFTER his presidency ends, likely in shame, and he's once again an indictable private citizen. It's ridiculous to think it wouldn't fucking devastate the Democrats to attempt impeachment - even in the House - with barely 18 months to go before the next election.

I don't think I've ever heard, in all my 65+ years, a Speaker Of The House refer to a sitting POTUS with, "he's not worth it". Once again, Trump has hit a new low in American politics.

What kind of Vichy attitude is this? Just what the public knows about is enough to put forth Articles of Impeachment. How many Congressmen, including Ted Lieu, Adam Schiff, or foreign officials or intel officers, former federal prosecutors, among many others, have said outright that what they are seeing is alarming and illegal? Imagine what they are either not seeing or diiscussing.

Sounds like they are suddenly hedging their bets and we need to know why. Anyone who is being honest knows there are a dozen issues to bring charges whether emoluments, obstruction (Comey firing just for starters), directing Cohen to lie about campaign finances, and the list goes on. Aside from the obvious crimes, this entire administration is a tire fire, not just here but throughout the world. Why are they now saying we aren't sure and it's not worth it?

What is impeachment or rule of laws for if not for this situation?

She knows what's in the Mueller report (i.e. a "nothingburger" as Van Jones admitted).

I've noticed many in the media are now slowing down on the false Russia narrative, obviously hoping that everyone forgets they ever spoke of it.

Russia was never really my concern. The Netanyahu-Bolton-Kushner-Pompeo-Neocon ilk were always more of a threat to this country.

[quote] Why are they now saying we aren't sure and it's not worth it?

Pelosi has never expressed enthusiasm for impeachment, for the same reasons she gave in that interview. This is not something new.

[quote]How many Congressmen, including Ted Lieu, Adam Schiff, or foreign officials or intel officers, former federal prosecutors, among many others, have said outright that what they are seeing is alarming and illegal?

Claiming something is untrue is vastly different than *proving* it.

[quote]I've noticed many in the media are now slowing down on the false Russia narrative, obviously hoping that everyone forgets they ever spoke of it.

This is called "confirmation bias." We all know collusion happened; whether Mueller can prove it did, however, is another story. It's no longer questioned (well, except by Trump) that Russia interfered in the 2016 election at every level, and may have very well tilted it in his favor, thanks to their constant propaganda. No one in the media is "slowing down" on the "false" Russia narrative, and it's magical, delusional thinking to believe otherwise. (Again, like Trump's.)

[quote]We all know collusion happened

The only Russian collusion is when Hillary gave $5 million to the Russians for a third-rate piece of Nifty fan fiction about her opponent.

I recall her somewhat recently also saying let's see what is in the report and go from there. There is no way that there aren't multiple crimes before and during the past 2 years that Mueller knows about. I can't believe that. Just from current or former intel officials saying this is what I'm seeing, this is a pattern, this is included or not included in the indictments suggests X illegality happening or happened.

We all know this and just what we can see there is plenty.

God damn...we can not ever do the right thing.

Death by a thousand cuts is still DEATH.

The democrats will never get a 2/3 majority in the senate to successfully impeach Trump.

Indictment of the people around Trump and eventually himself is a realistic scenario, impeachment isn't.

Love how trolls like R91 continue pushing the trope that Clinton originated the Steele dossier. Because that is what they MSM and right wing media contiinue to report. It all started with an unkown Republican, thought to be Ted Cruz or a supporting Republican PAC.

Since I have commented a few times on this thread I want to also say I do understand no conviction is likely due to Senate control. I understand that. What doesn't make sense is why Pelosi wouldn't just state that if we get to that point then the Senate Republicans are the obstacle.

Her quote hear sounds too watered down for where I think many of us are - we elected a Blue Wave because we are tired of this appalling and criminal enterprise masquerading as our government.

[quote]You are absolutely correct [R80]. Nancy and her centrist liberal Dems are guilty of collusion too

What collusion are "centrist liberal Dems" guilty of, R83? Let me guess? None.

What is a "centrist liberal Dem" anyway?

[quote]The only Russian collusion is when Hillary gave $5 million to the Russians for a third-rate piece of Nifty fan fiction about her opponent.

We don't do lies here, R91.

[quote]far-left AOC cocksuckers

I know people have an irrational hatred for this woman, but her support is growing. She's made some mistakes, but she's saying A LOT of what democrats want to hear and haven't heard in a while. She's going to be a force to contend with whether you like it or not.

And if we're being frank, Pelosi wasn't given her current position this time with overwhelming enthusiasm and support from her own party.

Pelosi is a pussy and needs to step down in favor of House leadership that will impeach.

Tip O'Neill impeached Nixon and investigated Reagan. It's the Congress's duty to prosecute the President for any and all crimes.

The Republicans never thought twice about impeaching Clinton and hounding the Clintons and Obama with investigations.

Pelosi is an out-of-touch, hippie dippy pussy who misread the 2018 elections as much as Trump.

LOCK HIM UP!!

She should be proposing new sanctions and countermeasures to Russia, as well.

Democracy dies when nobody is willing to fight for it.

Look at how Trump has corrupted and abolished our democratic institutions. It's outrageous.

Nancy Pelosi = Neville Chamberlain

[quote]DL is full of her ilk and the rightwingers who support them. They should form a political party.

Or maybe you should. See how far you really get.

What r22 and r85 said.

R101, Pelosi is the one with an actual strategy here. You are just a naive moron.

R106 Pelosi is a senile old bat who stutters her way through short sentences, forgets what she's even talking about during those same short sentences, and thinks Bush is still president. She belongs in Shady Pines.

Speaking of Bush. If she didn't want to impeach that MF, I guess this one isn't much worse in her eyes.

Find the posters from Brazil, Australia and the Ukraine that are really, really interested in making sure that democrats are as divided as possible. There are 6 on this thread.

You keep falling for their shit so - thread closed.