People in open-concept homes are realizing the walls were there for a reason

open concept= a hut

I've never understood the obsession with open-concept houses. I didn't grow up in a large family, yet we still relished our privacy, and the opportunity to do separate things in the same house, Dad could be in the den watching sports, Mama in the kitchen cooking, and me in the living room listening to music, and we weren't disturbing each other. In an open concept house it would sound like a circus, and that is with only three people.

I despise my open plan office, you couldn’t pay me to live in an open plan house.

What the article doesn't state is that the reason for open-plan homes is that they are cheaper to build and there is more profit.

I am having a hell of a time getting a custom home built in NH. I want post and beam construction, but I also want 8' ceilings and human scale rooms. Every post and beam builder that my architect has spoke to will only do the great room/open plan/ cathedral ceiling/minstrel gallery hall-to -the-bedrooms-on-the-second-floor plan. They say that they don't get enough markup on anything else.

I am looking for a new job and won't apply to anywhere that has open concept work space.

I love the main living space to be open concept. I hate lots of little rooms, like the house I grew up in

No issue with open concept homes as long as there is a basement with lock on the door.

And, OP, they think they have it rough in Yemen...

I think it's ok if the kitchen is open to a TV room as long as the house has separate living and dining rooms.

Oh, thank you.

I am currently condo hunting. I know the area I want, the size, and have even pinpointed the possible buildings. All built in the 1990s.

While not totally open concept when built, they do usually have large windows cut into the kitchen walls, presumable so some sunlight can filter into the kitchen.

I hate those windows. With a passion.

Even worse, as these condos are changing hands, many people completely remove the walls that existed around the kitchen to create the open concept look.

I hate that too.

I have begun to realize when I look at possibles, that I will have to pay someone to put the kitchen walls back up (without any windows in those kitchen walls) when I find a condo I like.

Hate, hate, hate open floor plans.

I don't want to see any kitchen mess or smell cooking smells all around my place.

Also investigating clever door ideas (pocket french doors are possibles) to isolate cooking smells to to the kitchen.

Also found a possible idea of a glass "barn door" from "for sale" pictures from a unit in the "Dark Passage" building in San Francisco.

If the kitchen is not enclosed, everything contiguous with the kitchen is going to covered in grease. Don't believe me? If you have ceiling fans, check them. If you don't cook, then go for it. But if you own a cast iron skillet, and use it, don't ever think of kitchen, dining, and living spaces combined.

[quote]What the article doesn't state is that the reason for open-plan homes is that they are cheaper to build and there is more profit.

What is surprising to me is that nearly every new multi-million dollar apartment built in NYC feature open floor plans. Open kitchens that look out on to living areas.

You have a roof over your head.

If I could afford a multimillion dollar apartment, I could also afford a cook and a maid. I wouldn't have to step foot in the kitchen let alone see it .

You can save on electricity if you only need to heat or air-condition the room you are in.

R15 - Having a cook and a maid is so pedestrian. Classy people dine out.

R13, a lot of the people who move into the new multi-million dollar apartments, end up being shocked that, between the open concept and the floor to ceiling glass windows, they have no wall space. They cannot hang their art collections. Whoops!

I have one. It only works because my house is so narrow, a row house.

Seems like this lady's problem is that she's got one of those irritating lazy-ass straight guys for a husband, and that she herself is too uptight to allow her kids to watch anything that might not be G-rated PBS fare.

Not that I particularly like open concept, but the lady in the story is insufferable.

[quote]I don't want to see any kitchen mess or smell cooking smells all around my place.

Our house smells like cooking smells nearly all the time, but the houses we lived in when I was a kid in the 70s through early 90s all did, too, and none were open concept. Probably more of a ventilation issue.

I eventually bought a filter and sat it right on the kitchen counter to help with the smells. Looks ugly and stupid but it helps so it stays.

Open plan living

Bungalow ranch style

All of it's comforts

Seem so essential

I bought you mail order

My plain wrapper baby

Your skin is like vinyl

The perfect companion

You float my new pool

De luxe and delightful

Inflatable doll

R18 That's why you buy a Robert A.M. Stern apartment.

I can see how open concept is challenging for families, but as someone who lives alone in my house, I love open concept and wouldn't want anything else.

R21 - what kind of filter?

Link?

If you have indoor cats and do not want all of your possessions and furniture becoming cat toys, you must have doors on rooms to contain or exclude them. Otherwise your cats and open plan home become the reason you can't have nice things.

Just a GermGuardian AC4825, R25. Wasn't that expensive but looks like a giant Norelco shaver.

R26 get some cat toys and scratchers.

Realistically, dining rooms are from another era. Families seldom sit down for formal meals in the rooms and it becomes wasted space. Blending everything together does make more sense in today's market. When I had a formal dining room, we used it maybe three times a year. Otherwise, everyone gathered in the kitchen around the island.

Thanks, R28, but we prefer R26's leather Chesterfield.

R29 You don't have to sit down for a formal meal. Just sit down for a casual meal together, in the dining room. Teach children not to eat in the kitchen like savages.

The house I grew up in we had an eat-in kitchen and a formal dining room. We only ate in the formal dining room during the holidays. I like open floor concept, but I am claustrophobic.

R29: But when you did use the dining room, did everyone who entered stager back in amazement?

My husband has been vehemently anti-open-concept for the 20 years I've known him. He's a great cook and he doesn't want anybody bugging him when he's in the kitchen. And I can still hear him cooking in there from the walled off living-room, banging pots and burning fingers, that's plenty. If the house is on fire I'll know and that's all I need

It's an interesting question. How often do those with formal dining rooms use them? For me, the space is much better utilized in open concept.

R35 I grew up with a dining room and an eat-in kitchen, and we used the dining room at least 2 or 3 times a week, and every holiday. Mainly because we didn't like to eat in the middle of a messy kitchen.

Another downside of open plan homes is that you have to heat or cool the entire house.

Same with the horrible, stifling and privacy-robbing open office spaces.

Rain water, LOTS of rain water around.

Also: Playground for naughty neighborhood kitties!

I like the idea of a Great Room that has kitchen, living and dining room all as one extended space ... but then the study, bedrooms, laundryroom (and what ever spare rooms you want) separate.

I'm currently in a Victorian with a lot of fussy little rooms and it's annoying going to each of them for different purposes.

See? Told you so. Walls are good things.

Yeah, open concept seems like a jackpot for builders. Just like strapless wedding gowns are a jackpot for dress makers (no shoulders, no arm holes, no sleeves). I like galley kitchens or kitchens with a pass-through to the dining area. I'm not sure how often people actually sit at the huge island with bar stools.

Unless you're truly a dinner party fanatic, dining rooms are just waste space.

They should usually be set up to serve an additional purpose, like being the library.

I like this, where the dining room is integrated rather than emphasized.

I hate when they tear out all the internal walls and the entire first floor looks and feels like a coffee shop or corporate break room.

I especially hate open plans that also have catwalks to the upstairs bedrooms overlooking the living areas. You can literally never have a private conversation or know if you're being seen or heard, which I find unnerving.

My parents built a sprawling open-plan house, and there are open rooms that flow into each other, so if you try, you can hear and see from one end of the house to the other. In their house and other open-plan houses, I notice people often huddle in the corners and smallest spaces of these open, sprawling floor plans.

Humans like cozy nooks.

I like the kitchen to be separate, with doors that can be closed during cooking. Ideally, one end of the kitchen would have a large nook with a table and chairs and a couch and fireplace, for times when people are hanging out there or having a quick meal. I also like a house to have a large living/dining area that's separate from the kitchen, with space to be versatile for parties, music groups, game nights, and holidays. It could be two rooms that open into one via large pocket doors. Then there should be some smaller rooms with regular doors that close, and those rooms can be office, library, music room, whatever, places for quiet or private conversations.

r45 your description of your ideal home sounds like a lovely home!

The company I work for just spent millions turning the first floor into open office space. Everyone hates it. It has been mass exodus and HR can barely keep up. In the company's infinite wisdom, they are still moving forward with plans for doing the same thing to a different floor of the building.

Open plan homes are for the poor who don't entertain formally and have foreign help to hide in the kitchen. Just the thought of sitting on a stool at an island bench to eat makes me ill.

I have a separate dining room in our colonial style house. The kitchen only has a small area to enjoy a coffee. Set the dining room really does get used. And it’s part of the kitchen easily accessible through a doorway. Even better it has doors that close.

I’ve been laughing at the open concept people for ages. I find the ones that talk about being able to see their children especially silly. Maybe you should actually watch them. Let’s face it you aren’t in the kitchen all the time .

R49 at our Christmas party I learned that most of my coworkers are so obsessed with monitoring their child’s every breath that they leave bedroom doors open, have removed the locks and freak out if the child closes his/her door. A few of them even leave bathroom doors open. Talk about a sex life killer. I’m not even sure what they’re afraid will happen behind the closed door. The response I got when I asked was “I’m a mama bear”, the other girls all nodded and the men just looked on defeated and sex starved. So different from 20 years ago when my mother would put us in a room and close the door so she could get some peace and mom and dad’s bedroom door was closed and you knocked before entering.

My new home has the main living spaces open concept.

I hate open kitchens, I cook and the kitchen is usually messy plus I prefer the smells and grease to be confined to the kitchen with closed doors and not end up in the living area where it will settle into the fabrics. Now it looks like the kitchen is so wide open it's part of the living room.

We have seen people who design their bedrooms/bathrooms with no door, wall, anything to separate! They must like to hear the sounds of doodoo and peepee!

[quote]I have a separate dining room in our colonial style house. The kitchen only has a small area to enjoy a coffee.

That's sensible. If you have a separate dining room, no need for an eat-in kitchen. I really don't understand vast kitchens with seating at the island plus room for a big table, plus there's a separate dining room. Great for parties, but how many parties are people throwing?

You’re all so fancy. I was raised in an apartment in Brooklyn and have lived in studios and 1 bedrooms since. I can’t imagine having dining rooms and basements and all that space. Part of me thinks it would be cool but another part of me thinks I’d feel lonely or something.

A lot of old decorator queens on this thread. Things change, in your case 20 - 30 years ago. It's not just that open plans are cheaper to build, and not by much, its what the people want. The space always looks bigger and housing costs have risen dramatically over the last 20 years, everyone is trying to maximize their usable space. Plus as others have mentioned, no one really uses the formal dinning room any more. In fact same could be said for the formal living room. Whether you like it or not, those are going way and have been for many years. The market is just reflecting what people want. Except for a hand full of old trolls of course.

Ever since the housing boom, people have started to cook more in the home. But most people don't have a maid or chef. The cook these days is less concerned with fancy pretentious dinner parties walled off from the guests in a hot kitchen and more in tune with interacting with them while they cook. After all, its kind of stupid to invite someone over for dinner and spend 3/4 of the time locked away in anther room.

Even wealthy people these days want open kitchens as they attempt to pretend they cook once and a while. How many parties have you gone to where everyone seems to hang out in the kitchen? Its a popular social space. Like being around a fire, where man used to cook since the beginning of time. I would argue that those who like being in an isolated dinning room is the most unnatural of all.

We have a dinning room. My partner and I eat there usually six nights a week. Sunday is homemade pizza night, and we eat on the sofa. It is the only meal when we eat and watch TV. This is one of the advantages of a dinning room- no distractions. We actually talk to each other.

[quote]I especially hate open plans that also have catwalks to the upstairs bedrooms overlooking the living areas.

That is the minstrel gallery that I mention in R4. R45, I think you would love the house I am building.

R56, but, my dear, the pendulum is swinging back. I don't think the formal dining room will return as before, but certainly fully enclosed kitchens and a defined living space. Similarly, I don't think you will see the formal living room of old, but I see a lot of young families nowadays designating a room as adults only. Parents want at least one room that is free of LEGOS and Barbie hair brushes.

I bet that is one polled the replies, the pro open plan replies would be mostly single and the anti-open plan replies would be mostly partnered or partnered with family.

Actually, its not my opinion R58, there have been market trend studies that point to the open plan popularity and its still growing. Most parents work, and most are helicopter parents these days so the last thing they want is their kid in the other room setting the house on fire. As much as they might bitch about privacy like the Frau in this thread, they value more the control over their domain.

Open concept plans are favored by the married with children set. It allows mom to cook and keep an eye on her precious droppings. Also, since they love to entertain, mom and dad can have a dinner party in which their guests can huddle around her in the kitchen, secretly criticizing her cooking.

[quote] We have a dinning room. My partner and I eat there usually six nights a week. Sunday is homemade pizza night, and we eat on the sofa. It is the only meal when we eat and watch TV. This is one of the advantages of a dinning room- no distractions. We actually talk to each other.

Open plan does not mean there is not a dinning table in the space. You cant sit at a table and have a conversation with your partner if you don't have 4 walls to keep him captive?

Open concept is favored by young couples and gays as well R60. Most people who are into socializing like to do so with the host. Most parties I have been to seem to flow a lot better in open plan spaces where people come and go, help themselves to drinks etc. Its no different than a real bar where its centered in the middle of the space instead of against the wall. Better circulation.

Growing up we also never used the dining room except for holidays. The kitchen had a separate space for a big table, sort of a half-room, and there were French doors to the patio behind it.

Friends who have open floor plan houses say it's great when the kids are little and need to be supervised, but sucks when they get older as the kids just retreat to their bedrooms and there's not a whole lot of privacy or quiet--if someone is watching TV, you need to go upstairs to make a phone call. It's a great layout for parties, but most people don't entertain as often as they expected when they moved in.

And yes, it's definitely cheaper for builders and allows them to make the kitchen smaller because it's open to the rest of the house.

R61, as mentioned, there is no TV to watch during dinner and no other distractions. When we lived in an open concept condo, distractions were a problem. And, FYI, I also insist on no TV in the bedroom.

However, in the house I am building, the living room area and the dining area are one room; so, yes there will be that flow. However, the kitchen is a separate room across the central hall (basically, working rooms are to the left of the hall/ living rooms are to the right.)

I think part of the problem is similar to what I mentioned up thread about the multi-million dollar apartments that are actually a design disaster, people do not understand the problems of an open plan until they have lived there a while. And, often, they don't want to admit that they are wrong.

The problem with market trend studies is that they often exist to support and outcome. Seeing a market trend study is often like seeing a color palette at a discount merchandiser such as Kmart- it is an indication that it is on the way out. Market trends studies are often the last gasp to resist change.

Where I live, public spaces such as libraries built or renovated in the last twenty years have all been open plan. There's no expectation of quiet anymore because it's unenforceable. So between homes, offices and public areas, there's no escape from compulsory noise and interaction, all the time.

R64 sounds like the life of the party. One of those people you cant get away from.

[quote] I mentioned up thread about the multi-million dollar apartments that are actually a design disaster, people do not understand the problems of an open plan until they have lived there a while.

No dear, you are out of touch, they have been around for decades and the general populous loves them. Its only a design disaster in your own little world. I have a lot of Realtor and construction Friends, NO ONE is asking for closed off rooms anymore except for the bedroom.

[quote]No dear, you are out of touch, they have been around for decades and the general populous loves them. Its only a design disaster in your own little world. I have a lot of Realtor and construction Friends, NO ONE is asking for closed off rooms anymore except for the bedroom.

No one? Not true.

In some high-end construction the trend is back to the enclosed kitchen. See Robert Sterns new buildings in NYC.

[quote] I have a lot of Realtor and construction Friends,

That is about like saying that you have a a lot of friends who are foxes and bobcats and they all advocate letting chickens nest in the open.

Back in the 1990s when nobody could sell the hideous white glazed brick NYC apartment buildings, the NY Times was paid to run a piece with some design guru gushing about how marvelous the apartments were. They were like a blank canvas that one could paint one's own masterpiece or some such crap. It worked. People bought these fabulous" blank canvases" and regretted it later. (One particularly annoying feature was that the apartments often had a donut plan: The enclosed kitchen and a bath were in the center of the space and the other rooms wrapped around the two. It made for a very weird layout. )

Never, ever, trust the opinions of anyone who profits from those opinions.

[quote]A lot of old decorator queens on this thread. Things change, in your case 20 - 30 years ago."

[quote]The market is just reflecting what people want. Except for a hand full of old trolls of course.

The out-of-touch one is you R56.

"The Closed Kitchen Makes a Comeback " - NYTimes

.....

....

For the " We like to entertain" set who demand the open concept because of the socialization: How often do you entertain others? Daily ? Weekly? Often enough that it would make a huge difference in where you choose to live? I often wanted the House Hunters to answer that question. When we see the open concept people entertaining at the end, the " crowd" is usually three or four others, hardly necessitating the demand. Now, if there were 20 or so, it could be understandable. Of course, the couples are reading from the provided script.

[quote]attempt to pretend they cook once and a while.

Oh, dear!

[quote]and mom and dad’s bedroom door was closed and you knocked before entering.

Knock before entering? Entering? You were actually allowed to ENTER their bedroom? Not us.

Like all the other houses in a million subdivisions built in Flyoverville during the 1960s, my 1600 square foot family home had one big consecutive open area from den (with paneling!) to dining area to kitchen. It must have seemed very luxurious to people who'd lived all their lives in little rooms.

My home is open concept. Oh, wait. That’s just the sewer that’s open concept.

[quote] Open concept plans are favored by the married with children set. It allows mom to cook and keep an eye on her precious droppings. Also, since they love to entertain, mom and dad can have a dinner party in which their guests can huddle around her in the kitchen, secretly criticizing her cooking.

Come on. Gay men are just as likely to be critical of the cooking.

+1 for R3's comment. Open plan is shitty in offices and shitty in homes. R45's pocket doors are the best compromise I've seen for dealing with flow vs enclosed space. In some Victorian/Edwardian homes they had those pocket doors between the living room and the dining. It gave full use of the space when entertaining but you can also close it off for heating or to make the space more intimate when it's only the family. Win/win.

[quote] Open concept plans are favored by the married with children set. It allows mom to cook and keep an eye on her precious droppings. Also, since they love to entertain, mom and dad can have a dinner party in which their guests can huddle around her in the kitchen, secretly criticizing her cooking.

Come on. Gay men are just as likely to be critical of the cooking.

+1 for R3's comment. Open plan is shitty in offices and shitty in homes. R45's pocket doors are the best compromise I've seen for dealing with flow vs enclosed space. In some Victorian/Edwardian homes they had those pocket doors between the living room and the dining. It gave full use of the space when entertaining but you can also close it off for heating or to make the space more intimate when it's only the family. Win/win.

I like the houses from 50s and 60s tv shows. The Brady Bunch house is as open a floor plan as I would like.

My one neighbor had a formal living room and dining room which were never used and we called them museum rooms. They always ate and entertained in their den.

I remember the apartment from “Bob Newhart” was open plan with a tiny kitchen, my mother thought it was so chic, I thought it was awful but I’ve always liked my own space and would feel kind of on display in a space like that.

The large apartments with tiny kitchens were chic because they implied people never cooked at home, but rather ate out every night as part of their busy social life.

r69mmm donuts

Open house is a scam. The builders profit and sell it as owners being able to see (aka spy) and control pretty much everything everywhere they stand in the house.

But what I hate even more are the glass fronts. "Oh, look at the view!". Fuck that. Give me thick walls that could withstand a nuclear blast. With Trump in the White House I need a home that can also fuction as nuclear shelter.

R84, ah yes, glass.

My parents built a custom house in CA in 1958. Pretty much every wall at the back of the house was a sliding glass door. The reason was that it was cheaper to pop in a sliding glass door than to frame out an actual wall. Our house was a furnace in the summer and freezing in the winter. Fabrics faded in a year or less. At one point my parents had some green film sprayed on the glass to cut down on the heat and sun fading.

My home was built in 1939, with a tiny kitchen and an even tinier dining room. I opted for an open floor plan that combined living, dining, and kitchen, nearly doubling the size of the kitchen and making each of these rooms seem much less claustrophobic. I have absolutely no regrets at all and would do it again in a heartbeat. Nothing but upside for me.

Personally, I love the space of cooking in an open concept. It's psychological but I don't feel trapped in a room and it becomes more of a celebration than isolation. As such, I don't mind eating in the open concept either whereas a long period of cooking in an enclosed kitchen and I don't want to see that space for at least another 24 hours. Even if we entertain two times a month, it would still be way more than the usage our formal dining room got. We live in LA so heating/cooling the space is not a major consideration.

I hate cooking smells and the sight of an untidy kitchen, so open plan is not my friend

R86, that's a good choice (open concept) for a "tiny" space like you described.

R56 obviously didn't read the article or any of the other replies. This thread is about the changing tastes, toots.

I posted this in the thread about countertops:

Open kitchens create a cacophony of noise. If you have a TV on, you have to pump up the volume to hear it as soon as you turn on a faucet or the dishwasher or want to put anything away. Then someone wants to have a conversation and ends up raising their voice to be heard over the TV. It builds and builds as sound bounces around the room on all of these hard surfaces. Not a fan.

There are very few homeowners in America who actually host more than a couple of people in these spaces at one time. It's a ridiculous notion that you need all of this open space for "entertaining" purposes when, even if you host get-togethers, it's no more that a couple of times per year.

R70 see R69 An article in a paper is just an opinion, and opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.

Hey douche bag at R71, thank you for proving me right. If you gotten off your lazy ass and bothered to read the article you posted NO THANKS open kitchen plan, you might have seen how your opinion is not based in reality or fact:

“The most common conversation I overhear when showing a property to potential buyers is ‘Is this wall load-bearing? Can we knock it down to open things up?’” says Arthur Jeppe, a principal Realtor® with Read & Jeppe in Newport Beach, CA. “So no matter how gorgeous a home is, it will most likely sell for less if the kitchen is separate.”

A proper home has halls, walls and doors for each room. A kitchen ideally has two or three doors to/from.

Fires spread in open concept much faster, as there are no doors to stop air and fire from moving.

I like the long, low ranch style home, myself.

[quote]My parents built a custom house in CA in 1958. Pretty much every wall at the back of the house was a sliding glass door. The reason was that it was cheaper to pop in a sliding glass door than to frame out an actual wall.

That's never been true. Just price out windows and see how much they cost. Your parents probably did that because it was California and back in that time there was a trend to live like Hollywood movie stars with glass walls in the back opening up to a pool year round. Your parents were cheap because even back then they had double pane windows that would have helped with heat control.

[quote]There are very few homeowners in America who actually host more than a couple of people in these spaces at one time. It's a ridiculous notion that you need all of this open space for "entertaining" purposes when, even if you host get-togethers, it's no more that a couple of times per year.

R91 = agoraphobic

[quote]A proper home has halls, walls and doors for each room.

So all homes built before the 18th century are garbage by your definition. You realize hallways were a modern invention. Right? Most older stately homes went from room to room.

Obviously R90 you did not read those articles either. Look at what they say:

“The most common conversation I overhear when showing a property to potential buyers is ‘Is this wall load-bearing? Can we knock it down to open things up?’” says Arthur Jeppe, a principal Realtor® with Read & Jeppe in Newport Beach, CA. “So no matter how gorgeous a home is, it will most likely sell for less if the kitchen is separate.”

So yes, things are changing, but not the way you want them toots.

I too like open concept for smaller spaces because it makes smaller spaces look bigger. Kind of like a trimmed bush.

It's so Datalounge for posters to be getting completely bent out of shape about something as trivial as the floor plans of a house. As if there was a definitive answer.

And keep in mind open concept makes it far easier to keep an eye at all times on the shady rent boys.

r100

it is really very funny.

my favorite flame war here was an argument about silicone vs rubber spatulas in the dollartree thread.

Dont forget R102 the Breakfast Sausage Lasagna queen.

There seems to be one poster who is really against people being against open concept homes. Probably a dumb realtor.

r103, i missed that one but i still giggle about the ferocity of that argument over spatulas.

when i consider the argument could have been one poster arguing with himself, i laugh even harder.

R104 yep u r right. It’s some fey realtor or even worse some decorator that can only do open concept. Think about it, anybody can be a decorator now. Just knock down all the walls, throw some shiplap up on one wall and buy a bunch of wayfair crap and voila!

R97, that is complete shit. Halls have been common since the Medieval times. The house I am building (R4) is based on a Medieval plan. Not only does it have a center hall, but by Medieval law, originally, the hall and the doorways had to be large enough for a pregnant cow to pass through. It was common to have a center hall that divided the working rooms from the living rooms, either to keep the kitchen smells and smoke out of the living rooms or, in the case of a merchant, to separate the business side from the home side. The also allowed air to flow through during warmer months

Yes, palaces were different, but that had to do with ceremony, lighting and scale. Nearly everything was a public ceremony, from getting up in the morning to going to bed at night. Also, lighting those large rooms required floor to ceiling windows opening into the room. The servants might scurry down dark internal passageways but the Aristocracy did not. The scale of the building meant internal halls would be longer than light could travel, hence exterior halls open to the room. By contrast, the hallway to a merchants house could get light from windows above the doors at either end and internal windows in the wall of the hall.

Seems to be two equally Mary'd sides to that argument R104

R50 And yet the strange thing is, most of these people who need their open concept houses so "they can see the children" - also have their "master suites" on the complete opposite side of the house(and possibly on a different floor) from the children's bedrooms. So maybe they can't stand the locks and closed doors, but what are they are going to do from the other side of the house?

I dislike open floor plan. I don't want to see what everyone is doing all the time nor for myself to always be seen. Plus, you need to keep the whole area tidy, including the kitchen. So you're having a dinner party or holiday dinner and either are killing yourself to get everything clean at the time or people are eating and can see dirty posts and pans and utensils from making the meal. Not to mention being more expensive to heat.

Actually R109 open floor concept makes it more energy efficient to heat a home. Of course you have to insulate properly so it covers the whole area.

The other great thing about these threads are DLers describing married co-workers with families as if they were Margaret Mead describing Polynesian tribes. (You see the same thing when DLers try and describe heterosexual men)

Living alone I like my open concept living space. If I lived with others I’d want defined rooms.

I had a home that was built in 1940. If I were in my kitchen someone could come in the house and rob me blind, that is how cut off the kitchen was. I took one wall complete out and the other I brought down to bar height. Although I enjoyed the open space it did take away from the character of the house. I think buying a home built as an open concept works great as opposed to a home someone is trying to make open concept.

I have always lived in houses where every room is completely walled off and I recently purchased an open concept Living room, Dining Room, Kitchen and I love the openness of it all. Maybe I like it because I live alone but everything seems so spacious. Only problem is having seating out in the open in the living room, not against a wall. Most furniture doesn't look that great from the back, I would love to get a couple of recliners but they all look hideous from the back, with loose fabric so the chair can recline.

I have never cared what is in style or in vogue, I like what I like and if anyone else doesn't like it, tough.

I like 'cozy'. And separate rooms with locks. Cavernous rooms surrounded by windows give me hives.

[quote]The house I am building is based on a Medieval plan. Not only does it have a center hall, but by Medieval law, originally, the hall and the doorways had to be large enough for a pregnant cow to pass through.

Lol

My favorite house was a 1920 Southern California original bungalow. My open floor plan home was fun but a lot of unused space.

Fuck open concept. If you’re entertaining, you should not still be cooking when the guests are there.

Frasier (the show) wouldn't have worked if his apartment had an open concept kitchen, as the characters used that one tiny room for all their private conversations. Really though, even that didn't make sense because there didn't appear to be a door to the kitchen. Characters in the living room would've been able to hear everything.

People congregate in the kitchen regardless of layout or size of the lkitchen.

I grew-up in a 1920s house---the rooms flowed and the Parlor and living room were basically the same room even though we used parlor for the piano, books, sewing, etc. There might have been a curtain between the two at one time and my dad took out the door to the kitchen, but really the whole effect isn't lots of tiny rooms. The 50s/60s houses nearby had split level plans (kitchem, dining, living clustered together or a living/dining area with a tiny kitchen. Open floor plans are kindof old. There's still a desire for a true center hall colonial--it just needs a big hbouse (and always needed a big house) to carry it off well.

[quote]anybody can be a decorator now. Just knock down all the walls, throw some shiplap up on one wall and buy a bunch of wayfair crap and voila!

Even easier with a closed dinning room. Pintrist, one click done. You don't have to make it work with other spaces. So it really the old queens who cant deal with more than one space at a time that cant cope with an open plan.

I've loved Ingrid Bergman's kitchen in "Indiscreet" ever since I first saw the movie on TV decades ago.

I still do.

I think one reason I like the open plan concept is because the first big city apartments I thought were chic were loft spaces. It was just so different from what I grew up with.

The idea of all that space, slightly industrial, really made an impression on me.

Mrs. Maisel's parents have some great cabinetry.

I'd copy theirs if I were doing a kitchen from scratch.

Will Megan install an open floor plan at Frogmore Cottage?

I don't think she'll be doing much cooking. So, no.

It’s way out of hand at this point, I agree. I don’t like them but I have noticed that homes built in the last 25 years especially have an open kitchen/living room combo. I don’t think that’s too much.

Maybe we all forgot about those houses built after WWII with small rooms and low ceilings. I think this led to where we are now which is madness.

i dislike going to someone's home and smelling their last 2 meals. That has only happened to me in open floor plans.

It's gross. It's like not having a door on a bathroom and smelling feces throught the house.

Blame "The Property Brothers", they started this craze. First it was granite countertops, then stainless steel, then an office, three car garage and now open concept. Theses are the must haves on theses shows now. What next.....

Kitchens are ugly. Who wants to have them on display. It's like having a bum for a face.

It's disconcerting to walk in the front door and see the refrigerator and stove right away in the corner. It reminds me of a temporary bar setup at a tradeshow.

First you say this:

[quote]Most furniture doesn't look that great from the back, I would love to get a couple of recliners but they all look hideous from the back, with loose fabric so the chair can recline.

Then you say:

[quote]I have never cared what is in style or in vogue, I like what I like and if anyone else doesn't like it, tough.

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said, EXCEPT the part about the recliners. I’ll be damned if I’ll sacrifice comfort for looks in my home. If I want a recliner that’s purple paisley in the back because that’s what I like, I don’t give a shit if it ‘looks good’ or if others like it. Fuck that, it’s my home where I spend the most of my time, I’m making it as comfortable for me as possible.

^is what keeps La-Z-Boy in business

People in class houses shouldn't stow thrones.

Aim a little higher, R132. It's not all about your slovenly sense of personal comfort.

It is to me, R135. How the fuck does one sacrifice comfort for looks in their own home?

[quote] People congregate in the kitchen regardless of layout or size of the lkitchen.

That is the truest thing in this thread. Always happens. I remember one of those cutsey-poo signs in an aunt's kitchen from the 50's:

NO MATTER WHERE I SERVE MY GUESTS THEY SEEM TO LIKE MY KITCHEN BEST.

Right next to this sign was a pair of those obnoxious humongous wood knife and fork sets on the wall.

[quote]Right next to this sign was a pair of those obnoxious humongous wood knife and fork sets on the wall.

Rolling with laughter because I remember those!

No, you don't.

They were wooden fork and spoon combinations. As if for tossing gargantuan salads.

Wooden knife? No.

Why the fuck are so many posters spelling dining as dinning?

Is this something akin to Lens, cak, graxy, WHET, and Jackie on Assistance?

I’m all in. I just need to get my bearings on dinning.

Thanks, r140. I, too, was wondering how three dinning rooms made it into this thread without a single Oh, Dear!

R141 Our pearls are broken. We have nothing left to clutch.

R129, the Property Brothers were hardly the first HGTV hosts who did this. Candice Olson was doing it a decade earlier. Watch those reruns and she's always saying "we'll blow out these walls".

If you are entertaining/having a dinner party and you spend more than a few minutes in the kitchen cooking and preparing YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG. Your prep should be 90 - 95% done in advance and require a minimal amount of attention.

I like an open concept one room living except for the kitchen, which I like separated by a big stain glass window I can put up or down depending on if Phyllis is nosing around.

I'm convinced the trend has it's roots in the SoHo loft.

Shelter magazines went wild for lofts in the 1970s.

Actually, the trend is a bit more complex.

Starting about the end of WWI, improved kitchen appliances, particularly gas stoves, turned the kitchen from a dirty work room to a more pleasant "woman's domain". It often was the one room where a woman had complete control. Women were allowed to go wild with "gay" curtains, whimsical cookie jars, colorful linoleum, etc. without worrying about male taste.

However, with the beginning of women's lib in the 1970s, the "woman's domain" was viewed more as a prison. Knocking down the walls of the kitchen was an act of rebellion and empowerment. You can actually find articles to that effect in shelter magazines from the late 1970s and early 80s. Young women of the period wanted nothing that reminded them of their mothers: station wagons, colonial revival furniture, chintz, etc. Their mother might be doing Pierre Deux or Mario Buatta, but young women were embracing industrial design, and, yes, loft living. But, they were embracing loft living specifically because it was the antithesis of the center hall colonial revival home they grew up in.

R144, even with the food completely made, people still hang in the kitchen. Much more so than any other room in the house.

Love you r22

R144, exactly. That way, you can enjoy a civilized cocktail together before dinner. If I want to watching a cooking show, I'll turn on the TV. Food that requires lengthy preparation immediately before eating - for example, risotto - is not a good menu choice for a party.

R148, that isn't my experience, and certainly not with guests. I think guests "hang" wherever the host is.

R150, guests hang where they're comfortable and the kitchen is the most comfortable room in the house.

My house is not open concept but the kitchen doesn't have doors, there's a normal size doorway leading into the small dining room and a larger opening which leads to the den. My vent fan may need to be replaced because I turn it on high when I cook but the entire house smells like whatever food I've cooked for hours afterwards and I hate that.

One thing I hate about open-concept homes, is that they look like you are walking into a Rooms-To-Go location instead of a house.

The food smell not only comes from the kitchen but also the dining table next to the sofa in open concept homes. You better have good ventilation.

R151, if the kitchen is the most comfortable room in the house, you need new living room furniture. And I still think guests will follow the host's lead. If you go sit down in the LR, then they'll join you. What are they going to do? Leave you to sit by yourself?

R151 comfort isn't just about furniture, it's about ambience and the kitchen is often much more comfy than a living room. An open floor plan allows everyone to circulate in one area and everyone is happy. I don't know why you are so against the idea that other people have different ideas of what is best for their lifestyle.

Back at you R149

Who the hell throws all these parties? My boss had some people over from our department at work and someone snuck into her bedroom during the party and stole from her.

I threw a couple of parties in my mid 20s and just felt used after. People drank all my booze, spilled drinks on my carpet, someone puked in my garage, I always had a huge mess to clean up when they left.

My parents hated being invited to dinner parties but always felt obligated to go. The first thing they always did was talk shit about the hosts as soon as they left. How my mother cooks better, making fun of their decor etc.

Why would you want shitloads of people coming over to your house? Oh I need open plan because I'm so popular and people just gravitate to me. I have over a dozen people coming over multiple times a week....my parties need to circulate and flow and my guests gravitate to me when I'm in the kitchen..... Bullshit

You're not in high school or college hosting keg parties. Nobody wants to come to your fucking parties unless they are druggies and alcoholics and they think you will be supplying them with free drugs and booze.

They will then thank you for your hospitality by using up all of your drugs/drinking all your booze, trashing your house, drunk druggie fucking in your guest bedroom. You will find your shit rummaged through, misplaced, missing. Your neighbors will hate you and most likely will call the cops on you. I have never been to an adult party were the neighbors didn't call the cops.....

The key is to have good appetizers and drinks. Even if you're not done cooking, for example, you're still working on your turkey gravy, people won't be starving.

If it's close friends and family, I can see gathering in the kitchen. If it's people you don't know that well and want to impress, I would aim to be 100% done with cooking when guests arrive.

R145, open-concept living also allows for extra seating when there there’s an extra guest at the dinner party.

It all can be traced back to the housing industry, in all its constituent parts. First, we build the walls and get paid for it. Then, we knock them down and get paid for it. Subsequently, we build new walls and get paid for that, too.

Fashion, kids. Skirts get short. Skirts get long. Earth tones. Jewel tones. Rinse. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

I have a friend that spent millions to renovate a house that has the open space planning on the top floor. It's a amazing house but she is rich and doesn't work so she keeps the clutter out.

[quote]No, you don't.

Hey, dickhead at r139, how the fuck you going to tell someone what they remember and don’t remember, asshole?

[quote]someone puked in my garage,

Sorry about that, but I think something was wrong with the shrimp.

Hey, dickhead at R164. The post specifically responded to R138 which specifically references wood.

Not metal or plastic as in your photo.

How the fuck you going to tell someone off when you can't even read, asshole?

Arguing about giant decorative silverware now, are we? Never change, DL.

Mama struck a deal with Muriel; if she herself was set free, DL got me [bold] : (

ooops, I was in the wrong thread!

scusi

Some friends just bought a converted barn and the first floor is entirely open. I couldn’t quite put my finger on what I didn’t like about their house (there’s another large farmhouse on their property that guests stay at, and I vastly prefer it—love it, even), but now I realize it’s the open concept. I love multiple rooms, nooks, hiding places. It just feels secure, and it’s good to be able to change your environment in lots of ways without even leaving the house.

[quote]Arguing about giant decorative silverware now, are we? Never change, DL.

Silver? Silver?!?! Do you know nothing?

I notice the comings and goings in my neighborhood. Almost NO ONE entertains. They don't even have a friend dropping by. Americans are depressed, isolated, lonely people.

The open plan for "entertaining" is an aspirational fantasy of having friends and family over all the time, like an endless sitcom.

My mother the hell-frau loves her open-plan house because she can see and hear everything people do and say, and keep her trademark control on everything and everyone. It's exhausting.

If your kitchen is the most comfortable room in the house, you're doing everything wrong.

Every huge utensil set I ever saw on a wall (and I'm old enough to have seen a lot) was fork/spoon. Some obsessive who has to "win" every argument probably spent hours combing the Internet for a design-mag photo of silvery utensils with a knife that no one ever put on their wall in reality.

People in my neighborhood will have get-togethers now and again but certainly nothing on a regular basis. However, there is one couple who does have a party of some sort pretty much every week of the summer. They have a lot of outdoor space, though, and that's where the lady of the house shoos everyone to. Her kitchen is small and gets crowded real quick. If it rains, she cancels the party.

[quote]That is about like saying that you have a a lot of friends who are foxes and bobcats and they all advocate letting chickens nest in the open.

A very kind and generous sandy-whiskered gentleman is going to help me find my new home!

[quote]One might not automatically think of the extravagantly comedic Brooks Ashmanskas (“Martin Short: Fame Becomes Me”) in the role of Georg, the mild-mannered, middle-manager hero of the story. But the thesp strikes the right tone of a less-than-dashing, doughy, buttoned-down man. Stunned at the prospects of what could be his last chance at love, he’s both thrilled at the possibility and guarded against disappointment.

Ashmanskas tamps down his natural flair for comic eruption, replacing it with a measured, sympathetic and charming perf that doesn’t overwhelm the ensemble chamber work. But when love finally comes for sure, Ashmanskas lets loose in the title song that allows his character — and the audience — to simply and grandly celebrate the joys of love, and of musical comedy.

And what is his kitchen like, R175?

Maybe rich people do but I live in a lower middle/middle class neighborhood and there’s a mass exodus every morning starting at 7am and we all come back together around 7pm. Then the street is eerily quiet. I don’t think anyone ever entertains. On summer weekends I can smell barbecues going but there’s never extra cars outside the houses so it’s just the family. My bf is in the city in an apartment but you there’s barely enough room for him let alone guests.

I live in a house built in the 1880s, and while I hate the upkeep and heating bills, I love the jumble of smaller rooms. I painted and furnished each room in a different style, and each part of the house has a different feel.

And I love kitchens. They are where real work happens, which sets many people at ease since the space is informal but busy.

[quote]r170 Some friends just bought a converted barn and the first floor is entirely open.

Classy! Iconic 50s interior decorator William Pahlmann went through a trend where he was converting barns into large-roomed residences.

R59, your misogyny is noted.

R172, Mrs. Kravitz, I thought you died.

Has anyone read the novel of WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT KEVIN? The main character is married to an All-American he-man with no taste who bought them a family home when she was working overseas. All teak and glass and no doors.

Any wonder their son committed a school massacre?

If you've ever lived or stayed in a studio apartment, you know how there's an ease that comes with its convenience. You're limited to one decorating concept (you cant't have a Blue Room, a Red Room, and a Garden Room), but you also have everything at your fingertips and within sight. It's a simplification process, where you decide what's most important to you to own and look at ... and to clean and store.

Vast palaces with many rooms can be enjoyable, but there are also pleasures within a single room log cabin.

I prefer a smaller sleeping alcove (all I do in there is have sex, read in bed, or become unconscious) and a much larger space for everything else.

I have no desire to go traipsing all over a house through different rooms. That was a childhood fantasy whose reality was impractical and burdensom. Now that I have a fully formed personality, I like one large space that reflects that core personality.

R183, I get what you’re saying and, to a lesser extent agree, but are you saying if money was no object you’d still live in a small studio?

For years I lived in NYC in what are called railroad flats, which are just a series of rooms connected together. In one apartment the kitchen was also used as part of the bathroom because it had the only sink in the apartment, right next to the sink was the plastic shower stall. So you had the living room, then the kitchen/bathroom (the main and only entrance for the apartment was into the kitchen) then the bedroom with luckily had a door. At one point you had to go out into the hall way and share the WC (toilet room) with another apartment, but in my apartment they had broken through the bedroom wall into the WC so I at least had a private bathroom. But really just 4 small rooms in a row.

I was thrilled to finally move out of NYC and rent a big apartment with real rooms and doors and hallways. No more spitting toothpaste or shaving in the same sink you had to do dishes in or food prep. No more showering in a room that was also connected to the living room.

But its amazing how you can make a space that small work, I had a curtain that I could use to separate the kitchen/bathroom from the living room. The sofa in the living room was a sofa sleeper and it was amazing the amount of visitors I had stay with me.

Now that I have 3 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms with even a real guest room with bathroom connected I hardly have any guests, maybe thats because people can afford to stay in hotels in Chicago but not in NYC.

I'm not saying I think a SMALL studio is best for me, or everyone ... just that I find it tiresome to live in many separate rooms, now. One beauty of Nancy Lancaster's famous Yellow Room is it includes a work space with a desk, a dining space that seats 4, and a conversation area centered around two couches, a fireplace, and many chairs. There is a small kitchenet behind the white doors, but if that was included in the room, it's open concept and even more multi functional.

I'm using the studio apartment idea as an example of what the appeal of living in a central space, such as one with an open concept plan can be.

Peace Be With You

^^ in response to r184 's

[quote]I get what you’re saying and, to a lesser extent agree, but are you saying if money was no object you’d still live in a small studio?

dont shit where you eat

Walls are an immorality.

Different strokes for different folks.

My complaint is that lately it's been more and more difficult to find a place that does NOT have that awful open floor plan.

Uncut men love open concept floor plans.

R185, you must love the book A Pattern Language. It's full of brilliant concepts about how people feel best living.

I agree about sleeping nooks. I've done that in some places, setting up an enclosed nook that just fit the bed, next to a window. It's far cozier (and space saving) than having an entire bedroom. If you live alone, it's a great idea. For those of us who don't live alone, a bedroom with doors works better for privacy and blocking out noise, if you're trying to sleep. You can still set up the nook within a bedroom, and use the rest of the space as an office, which is what my partner and I do now.

I've liked studio living, which is obviously smaller-scale open plan, when I've lived alone. When you have to live with others, or you have guests for weeks or months at a time, it works better to have rooms you can escape to.

Nancy Lancaster's famous Yellow Room is about the size of a football field. She had to fill it with something.

So what did she do? She divided the space into small spaces. Which is what walls do.

I think the most entertaining I do is BBQs and having friends over watching some show on Netflix.

Regarding the comment, or comments, about guests preferring the kitchen. I think this has more to do WHO is in the kitchen in the first place. I know it's not politically correct, but guests who like the female host may more likely socialize with her in the kitchen while the guests who like the male host hang around in the living room watching some sports event or talk about guys stuff. Of course this is a moot point when there is only one host and that host spends a lot of time in the kitchen preparing dinner. It would be very strange if only guests mingle in the kitchen where while the host is in the living room (unless it some frat or teen party where teens form groups to keep to themselves).

Some years back, I served Thanksgiving dinner for 10 in my home. A lot of work. Satisfying, but labor intensive.

The work was compounded by two particular guests with various social anxieties. They couldn't play nice and just socialize with the other guests while I completed the work in the kitchen. Again and again, they cycled out of the living room and came into the kitchen. I know for them it was a retreat into a safe(r) haven, but it pushed me to the brink as I had no time to hold their hands.

No open floor plan. Walls and doors on the kitchen. A lock on that kitchen door. Cut a pass through in the wall so you can shove the fucking food out to the guests without ever having to interact with them.

Well, maybe that last part is extreme. But it's rooted in hard won experience.

I saw a great apartment in London recently. Very '60s. They had partitions you could pull out from the walls to create a second room.

So you could turn the living room into a separate bedroom & living room if you had someone to stay.

and open the kitchen into the living room if you wanted to.

It was super-cool.

[quote]r192 When you have to live with others, or you have guests for weeks or months at a time - -

Honestly, I'd rather die.

There's a reason I chose not to spawn.

R197, in the famous charm school episode of I Love Lucy, the reverse was true. The woman sat in the living room while the guys hit the kitchen.

[quote]r193 Nancy Lancaster's famous Yellow Room is about the size of a football field. She had to fill it with something. So what did she do? She divided the space into small spaces. Which is what walls do.

No shit. But she achieved an airy brightness, which is the opposite of what walls upon walls upon walls impose every time you turn around.

(The room has a high ceiling, but its square footage isn't actually enormous.)

It's kind of the same thing. When I was in college I lived in a loft apartment for three years and loved it. I lived alone though. I wouldn't want to live in one with someone else though.

Open concept is a bitch to keep clean and neat. You can't just shove everything into a guest room and close the door.

I mean, how much can you hide in the oven? Not that much.

Walls. Walls are good.

200 posts and nobody mention the 'great room' concept? Also R118, I agree. The latest trend that bugs me is being inviting to dinner and the hosts having not even started cooking. It's like everyone gathers around the cook and have cocktails and chit chat while the meal is prepared. By the time dinner is ready I ready to leave. I do have to knock out half a wall in my kitchen to make it more user friendly, but I don't want to see the kitchen from the living room.

R118, I referred to it rather early on when commenting on how contractors will only build one style, and I believe someone else mentioned it shortly thereafter.

[quote] Back in the 1990s when nobody could sell the hideous white glazed brick NYC apartment buildings, the NY Times was paid to run a piece with some design guru gushing about how marvelous the apartments were. They were like a blank canvas that one could paint one's own masterpiece or some such crap. It worked. People bought these fabulous" blank canvases" and regretted it later. (One particularly annoying feature was that the apartments often had a donut plan: The enclosed kitchen and a bath were in the center of the space and the other rooms wrapped around the two. It made for a very weird layout. )

I remember reading a NYTIMES article about these white brick buildings and how some condos and coops were refacing the buildings with red brick to make them more appealing. I never heard about the floors plans, though.

What's wrong with white glazed brick?

Open concept is the cargo pants of domestic architecture.

Nothing is wrong with white glazed brick. It's all fashion and marketing. Those buildings all come from a particular era. The fashion of today is something else entirely. Except... If you compare new construction to the white glazed brick buildings, the new construction often loses.

most cooking odors don't bother me but stale grease smells revolting!

You will smell the cat shit box everywhere.

This whole thread & all yall’s opinions - useless without pics

R210, you neglected to include the apostrophe between "y" and "a" that is required in your regrettable contraction.

Why would we listen to your opinion on what is required, when you, yourself, so clearly do not know.

R206 Would that be GAP cargo pants?

Release the GAP store playlist guy!