How did Kobe Bryant escape #MeToo?

Black privilege.

When you're an athlete with a once-in-a-generation talent and generate millions of dollars in revenue every day for your franchise (excluding endorsements and public appearances), the beneficiaries of those $$$ will mobilize like the Marines for Iwo Jima to protect their asset. They will go through every aspect of your accuser's life with a thoroughness that would impress the Mossad--every parking ticket, every 'C' report card, the color and amount of makeup worn, the fact that you went to his room at all, will be spun into a tapestry depicting her low moral character.

When you're a hotel desk clerk with none of those shock troops and their resources at hand, you take the money, sign whatever piece of paper they stick under your nose and go away and try and forget the whole thing.

Don't forget this was the era of Anita Hill and Monica Lewinsky et al. Women who spoiled the narrative for powerful men who were supposed to win were dressed like deer by the media.

Money.

He went to trial, was severely scrutinized through it, etc., don't know what should have been done then now; the stars back in the days did much worse and much more often, e.g. people like Magic and Jordan allegedly had sex with thousands of people, there will have been cases of rape and harassment among them as well. And the media tends to create PR-friendly sex scandals; maybe it wasn't rape, and she wasn't not slutty nor totally free from gold-digging. Bryant's legacy is very tarnished through the trial, and he allegedly has a friendly demeanor and good manners, not an angry plebs-type, is more civilized and is communicative.

Didn't the woman's cum filled panties have DNA from several guys?

[Quote]Black privilege.

I second that.

I remember this because I was happy that Nutella finally had regular distribution in the US, instead of from expensive import shops. And soon after, Kobe's pic was on the jars, which sorta made me scratch my head but whatever.

Soon after he was on the jars, the scandal broke. And I thought, "Oh, shit," and I ran to Wal✩Mart (they used the star back then) and bought 5 jars of Nutella. My friend said, "Why are you hoarding Nutella? And I said, "Nutella is going to pull all this shit off the shelves because their first American mascot is a rapist."

And they did, but I didn't run out of Nutella. You can still get Kobe jars on ebay.

I thought Kobe was just rough when fucking her. The truth is Kobe is hot and charismatic. I remember at the Oscar’s lunch on everyone was going Gaga over Kobe.

I thought Kobe was just rough beef.

He came too soon.

Hey, Kobe is the victim here!

Even more ridiculous that Hollywood put him front and center for the Oscar photo during the midst of #metoo/#timesup

How could anyone forget this?

He is fucking hot.

R4, he never went to trial. Lakers gave her a big payday but she insisted he write the letter which was essentially an admission of guilt...of adultery on his part. She felt vindicated and refused to press charges or testify.

It was so gross how it played out.

Kobe is hot. Gurls lining up for him.

I was under the impression that she was OK with vaginal intercourse but he wanted anal sex. He then forced her to have anal sex. She did not consent to that. Anyone else verify this with me?

Unfortunately, she was a whore, darlin'.

RIP

R8 is an idiot. Darren Sharper was better looking than Kobe ever was and he's an admitted serial rapist.

Didn't he start dating his wife when she was underage?

R18 That was my understanding.

Because people think the woman made it sound worse than it was for money and he was overall, another nice guy. Anyone would be injured taking a 7ft tall man's dick. I doubt she would have agreed if he weren't famous.

At one point he said he should have just paid her off like Shaq does. Sounds guilty to me.

R1 like Bill Cosby?

I wonder if they will protest his funeral.

R24, what you're saying is you side with Kobe because he's famous, and are okay trashing a woman you know nothing about?

did she keep her job? I thought they aren't allowed to fuck the hotel guests?

The girl was joking about how hung he was after she fucked him. At a party no less. Being black is still a hindrance when you fuck the wrong woman. Kobe was wrong for cheating on his wife but I doubt it was rape. Or even rape rape.

She probably was mad he wanted to do it her butt and not get her pregnant so she could be set for life.

What kind of employee consents to having sex with someone on the job? I'm believing her just because she's a woman. If the clerk was a man, or if Kobe Bryant was a homeless man, I would first say what the hell are you doing fucking on the job when you should be working?

R30, according to whom? Kobe's defense team?

And playing the race card is hilarious since celebs get a free pass regardless of race. Why do you think OJ is walking free? The justice system is only against POOR black men.

The woman’s credibility was shot when she bragged at the party plus she allegedly had the DNA of two other men in the dirty chonies she wore to the rape exam.

R33, allegedly would be the key word there...

If he looked like OP and were of same age, he would be bogged down in hundreds of lawsuits and ended destitute like OP.

I took care of business

Why is no one asking if she raped him??

Was just reading this very fair Deadspin article from 2018. It wasn’t exactly swept under the rug.

Posters on here couldn't miss the opportunity to slither out from under their collective rock to take a final racial swipe. Meanwhile, as soon as Harvey tried to characterize his assaults as consentual, the "my pussy sticks" brigade was ready to pillory his female accusers.

RIP Kobe & your daughter too, I will always remember you for your charisma and class.

R39 is doing what he's accusing others of doing. Selectively choosing which victims to believe based on which celebs he likes.

I personally believe Harvey is guilty and should go to jail. I also believe Kobe should have gone to jail.

He didn't.

I think they did a SVU episode on this?

Nike also contributed to the pay off.

She freaked out when he wanted to come in her face, which was one of his favorite sex acts.

Who doesn't like a good creampie?

I never believed her story. And when it came out that she had several different guys' cum in her vagina, well....that's not somebody who is raped. That's a slut. I'm sure she went after him with guns blazing and then when he didn't want to leave his wife after a one-night stand with her, knives were out. She's a whore, darlin.

A lot of celebrities got away with evil

I tend to stay far away from rape threads on here and in this case I’m unfamiliar with this man and have no idea if the posts here are based on fact or rumour but I did want to say that I’m a man and I was raped. I had slept with 4 other men that weekend. Was I a slut? Sure. Was I raped? Yes. I had to go through the trauma of having my blood stained boxers held up in a court and having my sex life poured over and thrown at me in the witness stand. I was dismissed and called a liar because I had consented to sex with other partners that weekend. Even when my rapist was convicted I was called every name under the sun and a few new ones. I have no idea what happened in this case and I haven’t read up enough to even make an educated guess but I will say I find it disgusting when people try to use the alleged victim’s sexual history to dismiss them and their claims. When you come forward and make a rape accusation the questioning you get right from step one to the end is physiologically harrowing, it ruins your reputation forever, it stains your family name, strains your relationships and opens you up to a world of abuse from your rapist’s supporters. Most victims chose not to go ahead and press charges because the initial questions wears them down. I find it hard to believe that there are many people who will go ahead and make a public accusation based entirely on a lie. It happens because there’s bad apples everywhere but for most people not only is it not worth it but they’re not tough enough or masochistic enough to go through the process for shits and giggles and a few dollars.

Sorry for adding to this old thread when I know many of you Americans are grieving but I volunteer now with other male victims and the damage that old myth that slutty people cannot be raped has done to all victims but especially gay men is far too serious to let it slide.

R32 You must have worked for the failed prosecution! Not only did they find other men's cum on her panties they found a Caucasian pubic hair on them as well. She also changed elements of her story that she had given police. Lastly she would not testify in the trial.

In all of these Hollywood rape,metoo and molestations there is only man who is in jail so far. He is extremely wealthy and happens to be black. His name is Bill Cosby. As long as Weinstein, Spacey, Singer and the rest of those white sleazebags run free people will rightly play the race card.

R48 By the same token is it fair to bring up the prior behavior of a person being accused of rape? Or their prior record in court? There are people that are falsely accused of rape. They also should have a chance to defend themselves.

Oh my, she didn't even shower? another man's pubic hair?! Was she working or fucking the whole time in the hotel?

And I was just reading the "smoking gun interview" posted...Kobe was wearing the same fucking tshirt for a week! what a pig!

She asked for his autograph after the sexual encounter...wow!

R49 I don't think Bill Cosby was about #metoo because there was actual evidence against him. #Metoo is mostly "he said, she said". What's important is to check the facts because even in the Cosby case there was at least one accuser lying.

I'm sorry for what happened to you r48. But I still don't believe her.

On September 1, 2004, Eagle County District Judge Terry Ruckriegle dismissed the charges against Bryant, after prosecutors spent more than $200,000 preparing for trial, because his accuser informed them that she was unwilling to testify.

In August 2004, the accuser filed a civil lawsuit against Bryant over the incident.[22] In March 2005, the two parties settled that lawsuit. The terms of the settlement were not disclosed to the public.

Supposedly the problem was not the sex, she was down for that. It was the surprise/unwanted anal that was the problem. This was not your usual rape case.

I don't think the 'escaped' #MeToo. When he was Oscar nominated as one of the producers of a short film (which went on to win) there was a lot of worldwide negative publicity for him that caught the attention of a lot people who had never ever heard of him.

When I saw clicked on a news site this morning I saw his name and that he had been killed in an ancient. I didn't read the article but thought 'That name is familiar'. Half an hour later I clicked onto IMDb and it clicked instantly who he was to me: the sportsman person who won an Oscar a couple of years back that had a 'history' relating to sexual assault.

Anyway, this is terrible news of his passing and that of his daughter and other victims. One cannot imagine what his wife and three other daughters must be going through.

I read the police report. There was no mention of anal...

[quote]that's not somebody who is raped. That's a slut

Raping a slut is still rape, and it's still a crime and a felony.

The ignorance on Datalounge is pretty overwhelming sometimes, but the constant refrain of "sluts can't be raped because they're sluts" is ridiculous. I can't imagine what goes on in your idiot head to think that someone who had lots of consensual sex is not legally or morally able to say no.

What's the cutoff for your geniuses, anyway? You think the law says if you've fucked 100 people then you can legally be raped? 150? What are you even THINKING with this "logic"?

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

They both agreed the sex was consensual up until she claimed that she said stop. He claimed at that point he did stop and requested to come on her face. She claimed that he didn’t. She refused to testify. They had to drop the case. What more could be done? Should every man accused of rape or sexual assault suffer for the rest of his life, regardless of the legal outcome. That’s bullshit. False accusations may be rare but they do happen. Wealthy celebs are always going to be obvious targets.

Thanks for sharing your story R48 and I was going to also point out to the idiotic small-minded posters who think because someone has lots of consensual sex they can't possibly be raped is bullshit, but you did it so much better and more personally. Sorry you went through that.

It is really disappointing when people expose themselves to be rape defenders. It doesn't matter how many dicks you've had up you in a 24 hour period, if one of them wasn't consented to that's still rape. Not a difficult concept.

[quote] Thanks for sharing your story [R48] and I was going to also point out to the idiotic small-minded posters who think because someone has lots of consensual sex they can't possibly be raped is bullshit, but you did it so much better and more personally. Sorry you went through that. It is really disappointing when people expose themselves to be rape defenders. It doesn't matter how many dicks you've had up you in a 24 hour period, if one of them wasn't consented to that's still rape. Not a difficult concept.

What do you believe should be taken into account, other than her words? Are we to believe any and every accusation just because “all women should be believed?” Does that sound like justice to you?

Because the matter was dealt with at the time to the woman's satisfaction and she didn't come out pointing her finger at him during the whole #metoo thing.

[quote] What do you believe should be taken into account, other than her words?

The hospital report about the bodily evidence of the reported violence, r64. The blood evidence on his shirt. His later admission that he liked to strangle another female who was his (regular) hookup. And the fact that Bryant at first tried to disingenuously COMPLETELY deny even having sex with the second female who came forward - smoking gun:

[quote] During the July 2003 interview with investigators, Bryant initially told investigators that he did NOT have sexual intercourse with his accuser ... When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant [only then] admitted to having sexual intercourse with her

[quote] The hospital report about the bodily evidence of the reported violence, [R64]. The blood evidence on his shirt. His later admission that he liked to strangle another female who was his (regular) hookup. And the fact that Bryant at first tried to disingenuously COMPLETELY deny even having sex with the second female who came forward - smoking gun:

Again they agreed that the sex was consensual up until he bent her over a chair and she claimed that she then asked him to stop. He claimed that he stopped and requested to come on her face.

Whatever kink Bryant doesn’t make him a rapist. Just like the accuser fucking several other men within the same 24 hrs doesn’t make her a liar.

It comes down to his word verses hers and she refused to testify. Which ended the criminal case.

Are the cable news channels really going to ignore this? Oh wait, CNN did just mention it. All is forgiven though.

Are there seriously people on here protesting that he didn’t do it? The whole incident was incredibly sleazy and he apologized. Apparently he did show real remorse and reform and that plus his phenomenal basketball talent saved him. Nobody should be totally judged by one incident, but it should be recognized that it did happen.

[quote] Are the cable news channels really going to ignore this? Oh wait, CNN did just mention it. All is forgiven though.

Again, should every man accused of rape or sexual assault suffer for the rest of his life, regardless of the legal outcome. That’s bullshit. False accusations may be rare but they do happen. Wealthy celebs are always going to be obvious targets. The medias not talking about the dozens of sexual assault allegations against the current president of the United States. What is it that you want them to do to Bryant, after his and his daughters premature deaths?

[quote] Again they agreed that the sex was consensual up UNTIL he BENT her over a chair and she claimed that she then asked him to stop. He claimed that he stopped and requested to come on her face. [She said no.] Whatever kink Bryant [had] doesn’t make him a rapist.

R67, I'll repost this here: Reportedly, she consented to sex - but not to violent sex and strangulation. This was the first and only time they had sex and he didn't forewarn her that he had a strangulation pattern:

"When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that STRANGLING during sex was his "thing" and that he had a PATTERN of strangling [another] sex partner [his secret mistress, not his wife] during their recurring sexual encounters [the mistress consented to the strangulation, but the 19-y.o. female who came forward didn't]. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are STRONG. I don't know." "

#MeToo is the 21st century equivalent of lynch mobs and pogroms. A socially acceptable means for the collective to release discontent and hatred. That it is woefully misguided, misdirected and largely ineffective, that it scapegoats is irrelevant in the interest of social control.

[quote] [R67], I'll repost this here: Reportedly, she consented to sex - but not to violent sex and strangulation. This was the first and only time they had sex and he didn't forewarn her that he had a strangulation pattern: "When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that STRANGLING during sex was his "thing" and that he had a PATTERN of strangling [another] sex partner [his secret mistress, not his wife] during their recurring sexual encounters [the mistress consented to the strangulation, but the 19-y.o. female who came forward didn't]. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are STRONG. I don't know." "

Again they agreed that the sex was consensual up until he bent her over a chair and she claimed that she then asked him to stop. He claimed that he stopped and requested to come on her face.

Whatever kink Bryant doesn’t make him a rapist. Just like the accuser fucking several other men within the same 24 hrs doesn’t make her a liar.

It comes down to his word verses hers and she refused to testify. Which ended the criminal case.

You’re attempting to re-litigate a case that the accuser abandoned. The criminal case was dropped because she refused to testify. Attempting to obtain a guilty verdict from the case that she walked away from is silly.

I think the news about other guys’ cum in her panties was just a smear campaign to try to get her to back down from her claim.

There was never a trial, so that information would never have been released with one

[quote]Meanwhile, as soon as Harvey tried to characterize his assaults as consentual, the "my pussy stinks" brigade was ready to pillory his female accusers.

WTF? Uh no. No one here defended that gross pig, Harvey. In fact, he was called out on DL for his disgusting behavior long before (like a decade) #metoo was even a thing. Way to twist the narrative to suit your racist aims.

[quote] Kobe was wrong for cheating on his wife

[quote] I'm sure she went after him with guns blazing and then when he didn't want to leave his wife after a one-night stand with her, knives were out. She's a whore, darlin.

Bryant was already juggling a wife and a secret habitual mistress by this point. He said he had regular vanilla sex with his wife and rough sex with his secret mistress. Classic Madonna-whore complex.

Then apparently he decided to try out his strangulation fetish on a random hookup. (The 19-y.o. was a 3rd (random) hook-up in the same time period.) But the young hookup didn’t consent to be roughed up (like he was used to with his servile mistress). He’s a strong athlete - so he left her with bruises on her body and lacerations inside, as documented in the hospital report.

R66, there's a saying which fits your quote.

"Admit what you can't deny, deny what you can't admit."

[quote] Again they agreed that the sex was consensual up until he bent her over a chair and she claimed that she then asked him to stop. He claimed that he stopped and requested to come on her face.

R73, you’re omitting the information that she claimed he did not stop. And the hospital records that show evidence of external and internal bodily violence, plus the strains of blood on his shirt.

R75 Dectective Doug Winters admitted that another man's semen was found on her panties as well as another man's pubic hairs. The accuser told Winters that Kobe stopped when she resisted in an initial interview. The hotel auditor saw her after the incident and said that the accuser went back to work. The hotel auditor also said:" she did not look or sound as if there had been any problem."

R57 There was no anal penetration that occured in that incident.

R53 Bullshit. A legion of women have come out against Harvey Weinstein. Where there is smoke there is fire. When the Datalounge crowd was talking about Weinstein's scumbag antics we were way ahead of the curve.

[quote] [R75] Dectective Doug Winters admitted that another man's semen was found on her panties as well as another man's pubic hairs. The accuser told Winters that Kobe stopped when she resisted in an initial interview. The hotel auditor saw her after the incident and said that the accuser went back to work. The hotel auditor also said:" she did not look or sound as if there had been any problem."

Let’s repeat this.

Who says there has to be a "problem" after a rape? Women often try to pretend nothing happened or start blaming themselves.

It's silly to think someone raped must behave a certain way

[quote] Dectective Doug Winters admitted that another man's semen was found on her panties as well as another man's pubic hairs.

Except Bryant was the one who admitted to strangulation / choking without asking for consent, R83 - which is consistent with the hospital record of her neck bruises.

[quote] The accuser told Winters that Kobe stopped when she resisted in an initial interview.

“Every time I said no he tightened his hold around me,” she told police.

[quote] The hotel auditor also said:" she did not look or sound as if there had been any problem."

Another witness at the resort said the opposite.

^R80, that is

I have always believed that Kobe and Ben Roethlisberger got away with rape by paying of their victims.

I was almost raped in high school in the parking lot during a high school basketball game. We were making out in the back of a van. The only thing that saved me was being on my cycle. I was so embarrassed that I returned to the basketball game and sat with my attempted rapist. I did not cry until I got home and never went out with him again.

Sorry to hear that, R87

I don't trust these racist white feminists. All lies, as always. See at 31:13 in the video.

Of course he’s a rapist. But he’s prob the nicest most charming rapist in Hollywood. That’s why the backlash died down. What he did pales in comparison. They all love him cause if he can be loved after what he did then so can all the other rapists who did even worse.

If he raped her why did she refuse to testify? I'll never believe her simply because of that. It had already gone so far then at the last minute she pulls out? Nope.

Why should she testify R91? She got a giant settlement and essentially a public admission that he did it from Kobe. What more does she need? The fact that so many people are attacking her proves she made the right decision.

I'll throw it back to you. If he didn't rape her, why did Jerry Buss, Kobe and Nike put together such a huge settlement for her.

Women lie, especially if they are looking for a big pay day. Ka-ching!

I think some of the reasons why she didn't want to testify was that her name had been (inadvertently? Yeah, right) released to the public and also that at least one of the medical reports was supposedly mistakenly sent by the court to some media outlets. I think there were other things that weren't handled properly....why would she think she'd get a fair trial??

If you want to get away with rape or murder (Jon-Benet), Colorado seems to be the place to do it. Their law enforcement people don't seem to follow protocol too closely.

Kobe fucking admitted it and people still won't believe it. She got it right.

Poor Kobe, a hot cock like that couldn't last forever.

We don't know for sure whether or not KB raped the woman. All we know is that she declined to testify in exchange for a large sum of money. I have more suspicion and less sympathy for a rape victim who does this, because she could have still cooperated with prosecution AND get a handsome sum in the civil case, perhaps even more money. The facts of the case were always murky, credibility of the victim in a he-said/ she-said case where the evidence is far from unassailable is always scrutinized, as should be.

I think having other man's semen in her destroyed her case. Her rape exam showed traumatic lacerations that were recent and consistent with non-consensual sex. But evidence also showed that the semen belonged to another man and that she had sex with him after her sexual encounter with KB. There existed the possibility that she had rough sex with the other man during the same, short timeframe. Also lying by omission was something that raised questions about her credibility, because she denied having other sexual encounters after being raped. KB's lawyers were going to have a field day with those inconsistent evidence and actions.

I have a problem with how some Twitter idiots and supposed Black feminists like Roxanne Gay are excusing their dumb mantra of "believe all women" in KB's case. It's really fascinating to see the alignment of identity politics, where race occupies a higher stratum than biological female gender in the hierarchy of identities. So while I think the accuser's story was inconsistent and wouldn't have met the criteria for conviction, the hypocrisy of certain people is glaring. That said, I also think it was tacky and inconsiderate for certain people to tag KB as a rapist on the day that he and 8 other people including his daughter died. It's obvious that KB was an immensely gifted and savvy athlete who showed tremendous personal growth in the years since the incident. Human beings are complex creatures, we often forget that in our haste to judge.

R97, Kobe said he understood why she thought she was raped.

Kobe was a fuck machine. His big dick was probably too much for her.

Didn't she say his dick was huge? And it was big enough he made her bleed and she wasn't a virgin.

I bet he had a huge dong. I'm sure he slapped that pipe down on many. How many abortions did he pay for?

She found out she was pregnant and that is the reason, she backed off from the criminal case. It was an unplanned pregnancy and she didn't want the stress of a trial.

I do not think he was a Harvey, Bill, R Kelly or Kellan Winslow type. You can see from those cretins, they didn't stop.

This sounds like a hookup gone off the rails to me. Always has.

I just don't understand how she could wear dirty underwear to the hospital for the rape examination? Someone said she wore a used underwear, that underwear had another man's DNA on it...

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was the actual argument of her case, R99, that she didn't consent to anal because of his size but he did it to her anyway.

Kobe always seemed like a jerk to me. There's an old post of his going around that everyone thinks is hilarious but it just seemed bitchy, where he called his own little girl's basketball team "winners" in quotes because they only got 4th place and he was bitching about it, and he singled one girl out who decided to focus on dance instead of basketball. One of the most famous sports players in the U.S. publicly humiliating little girls because they weren't good enough for him was an asshole thing to do. I suspect he always had that attitude and probably more toward women than men: do it my way or fuck you, bitch.

R101, a hookup gone wrong can still be rape. Reading threads like this makes me understand how morons like Whoopi got away with her rape-rape comment.

He didn't fuck her up the ass. He banged her from behind, bent over a chair. He wanted to come on her face, she said no and he stopped.

He didn't stop, he came on her face anyways after she said no. He also choked her after she said no.

[quote] I have more suspicion and less sympathy for a rape victim who does this, because she could have still cooperated with prosecution AND get a handsome sum in the civil case

No, R97 - the cooperation was undermined because the Court’s clerks behaved SHOCKINGLY irresponsibly towards the accuser by unlawfully LEAKING CONFIDENTIAL information about the accuser’s ID and confidential court documents to the Press (leaks which broke the Court’s own rules and benefited Bryant ONLY):

(1) The Court’s staff “accidentally” leaked the accuser’s name 3 times (!) to the press (in violation of Colorado court rules). The Court claimed it was “accidental” (3 times, lol). But, as it benefited Bryant and led to the accuser being harassed by Bryant’s gigantic sport fanbase (including death threats), it could have been intentional & malicious.

(2) In addition to that, there was a FURTHER “accidental mistake” by the Court, which disadvantaged the accuser and benefited Bryant only. Bryant’s defense lawyers sought to persuade the judge to allow testimony about the accuser’s sexual history and the judge ruled that much of the evidence was admissible. However, a confidential TRANSCRIPT of that court hearing (i.e. containing information about the accuser’s sex life) was then “mistakenly” e-mailed by the Court’s clerk to SEVEN news organisations!

So this means 2 alternative things: (1) Either the Colorado Court was VERY reckless and had “accident” upon “accident” (4 times or more) working in Bryant’s favour; OR (2) This was a malicious, intentional campaign by the Court to harass the accuser (by giving up all her sensitive confidential info to the Press, in violation of state rules) and misleading the press into demonising her in public (by leaking to the press ONLY information against the accuser and in favour of Bryant).

Notice that the Court did NOT “accidentally” leak any information multiple times against Bryant (like his secret past & concurrent history of strangling females) - only against his accuser.

This sets off alarm bells about that Colorado Court. Given the jaw-dropping conduct of the Court, it’s highly unlikely that the accuser would have received a fair trial. One court “mistake” could have been a mistake - but so many in a row suggests a pattern. Reckless or intentional, either way the Court was constantly betraying the accuser and feeding only information against her to the Press.

If I were advising the accuser, I would have offered the option of abandoning the criminal case too because that Colorado Court was clearly imbecilic at best or deeply corrupt at worst. A re-trial hearing probably wouldn’t have helped because the court staff already irreversibly breached the rules and leaked only all the anti-accuser info to the public and likely prejudiced the upcoming jury. Without a balancing court option of leaking similarly explosive details about the defendant’s concurrent sexual history, there would be no fair trial.

quote] But evidence also showed that … she had sex with [another man] after her sexual encounter with KB … I think having other man's semen in her destroyed her case.

R97, not necessarily. That “evidence” (that the foreign semen was possibly “after” the Bryant episode) was the OPINION given ONLY by ONE single Californian (Bryant’s home-turf) expert, Elizabeth A. Johnson, HIRED by the Defence team (surprise, surprise). And the Defence’s expert did NOT say it with 100% certainty, but instead admitted it was her own “interpretation” of the swab evidence.

Once again, the Prosecution failed the accuser. Any Prosecutor worth their salt would have called an additional expert(s) who may well have challenged the opinion of the Defense team’s single forensic expert. In the pre-hearing, it was NOT yet conclusively established whether the cum was “after” or “before” the KB incident, so it’s wrong to site the Defence’s witness’ opinon as ‘final evidence’. It should have been decided in a “battle of DNA & forensic experts”, as usually happens in big, complex rape or DNA / sperm cases.

It’s highly curious that ONLY the Defence’s expert witness was called on. Again, this raises questions about the fairness of these proceedings.

What "destroyed" the case were the Colorado Court's unsanctioned press leaks and the Prosecution's strange passivity and incompetence. This does not inspire confidence in the system.

[quote] Also lying by omission was something that raised questions about her credibility, because she denied having other sexual encounters after being raped. KB's lawyers were going to have a field day with those inconsistent evidence and actions.

Again, it was NOT conclusively established as a “fact” that the relations happened “after” the Bryant episode. So it’s premature to state that she was “lying” about this.

The Prosecutor could have had a field day with Bryant too, given that Bryant himself lied to authorities even about the fundamental fact of the case (lied to the police that he did not have sexual relations at all with the accuser, and only owned up to it *after* hospital evidence unquestionably exposed him as a liar in this respect).

Like in many assault trials, both the accuser and the defendant had gaps in credibility to a certain extent as both admitted to lies in the course of proceedings. The accuser admitted to lying about ca. 2 things in her initial interview (though they were relatively minor), whereas the defendant admitted to lying to investigators about one thing but in turn a very big one (the lie that there was no sex at all).

[quote] Why should she testify [R91]? She got a giant settlement and essentially a public admission that he did it from Kobe. What more does she need? The fact that so many people are attacking her proves she made the right decision. I'll throw it back to you. If he didn't rape her, why did Jerry Buss, Kobe and Nike put together such a huge settlement for her.

The suit was settled for an undisclosed amount. We don't know what she received. A settlement is not an admission of guilt. And if you're about to sign a 100 million dollar contract. Why would you not settle so that you can move on?

There's no point in attempting to re-litigate this 15 yrs later and after Bryant's death. When the accuser refused to testify that ended the criminal case. There will never be another trial. It will always be a matter of her words against his. People will continue to believe whatever they want to believe.

*Defense, that is

[quote] There's no point in attempting to re-litigate this 15 yrs later

R109, There is a point in the sense that there were bizarre transgressions made by the court in that high-profile case, which suggest that the system was potentially rigged. Regardless of guilt, it needs to be investigated why the trial proceedings were so heavily slanted in a rich lobby's favour.

I hate celeb rape victims so much, they get offered a big check and all is forgiven. Pathetic. It's why celebs continue to get away with this shit.

[quote] Bryant was charged with one count of sexual assault, a Class 3 felony that is the equivalent of rape. In Colorado, like in many jurisdictions, the legal definition of sexual assault is a "liberal standard which doesn't [necessarily] require force or violence [and can include intimidation / threats]."

It’s strange that the Colorado Prosecutor charged him ONLY with Class 3 sexual assault. Everyone knows that rape is generally very difficult to prove to the high bar of a conviction. Curious to note that the Prosecutor failed to charge him also with simple assault. The evidence of rape was complex in this case. But the evidence of assault had more support, based on a hospital examination report of external bruising and even Bryant’s own careless admission that he liked the “strangulation thing” as a habitual pattern, that he did use it on the teen stranger in this case, and that he didn’t get consent for such rough-play from the teen and didn’t even discuss it with her beforehand.

I didn’t forget. I didn’t forget how he cheated on his wife. And I think he was banging that basketball coach who died in the crash with him. I won’t say any more of what I think about him as a person.

I’m not happy he died or anything, but I don’t think he was so great.

I do think he raped her.

But I also think women care more about money than rape.

Liberal women claim to be against capitalism and the patriarchy and rape, but the minute someone flashes a dollar bill they always take a settlement and let the rapist get away with it.

Believe all women!!!! Oh wait, you’ll give me money if I stop saying that?! Fuck these other hoes!!!

R115 She didn't testify in court thus no chance to convict Kobe if said allegations were true. She had no problem going ahead with the civil trial that netted her 2.5 million dollars. She chose money over justice.

R97 They also found Caucasian pubic hairs on her panties with another man's semen. She lso went to a party after this incident and laughed about it nd talked about how big Kobe was cock wise. Not exactly the actions of a victim

[quote] [R115] She didn't testify in court thus no chance to convict Kobe if said allegations were true. She had no problem going ahead with the civil trial that netted her 2.5 million dollars. She chose money over justice.

She received an undisclosed amount.

[quote] she lso went to a party after this incident and laughed about it nd talked about how big Kobe was cock wise. Not exactly the actions of a victim

R117, disingenuous cherry-picking - your own linked article also gives the opposite evidence which you completely failed to mention:

“Another friend told the Associated Press that the woman had “visible evidence” of the alleged attack a week later … gave a different impression of the victim, saying she was still “shaken up” by what happened … “There is visible evidence of what happened,” he said.

[quote] They also found Caucasian pubic hairs on her panties with another man's semen.

R117, meet R49. And this was already counter-analysed upthread @ R108. Keep up with the thread.

There was an SNL sketch with Maya Rudolph as Vanessa and I'm not sure who as Kobe (Finesse Mitchell?) after the rap accusation.

They're with a lawyer and Vanessa is playing the concerned wife and then when she and 'Kobe' are alone; he asks her something and she says, 'well, maybe I don't like going to my husband's DAMN rape trial!"

At the time, funny because you know that's probably what was going on at the time.

Here it is.

I'm surprised NBC didn't take this down.

Kobe was 24 when the rape happened. He was likely an immature party boy with all his Fame and fortune

I’m going to assume that by 41 he had matured.

It's in extremely bad taste to bring this up now.

Possibly, R123.

But rapes don't 'happen'...guys commit rape. It's not like he was holding a gun and it went off accidentally.

I wonder how much of that incident led him to pursuing more philanthropic endeavors.

Was he trying to make up for it all.

I think people who are bringing up the sexual assault/rape ordeal -- whatever it's called -- may have a more personal connection. Either they or someone they know was attacked. I was sexually assaulted in college by three guys and when you're totally powerless you know what runs through your mind? "they might kill me to shut me up and I can't stop it." that's a pretty fucking scary feeling.

Kobe's own words in that incident chilled me; they weren't the words of an innocent man IMHO.

And, no, my ordeal wasn't hot. It was sick and scary and humiliating and painful and changed my life forever.

[quote] Kobe was 24 when the rape happened. He was likely an immature party boy with all his Fame and fortune I’m going to assume that by 41 he had matured.

Alleged rape. We will never know the truth. Despite the continued idiotic attempts to re-litigate it, after his death.

[quote] It's in extremely bad taste to bring this up now.

[quote] Kobe was 24 when the rape happened ... I’m going to assume that by 41 he had matured.

It's extremely bad taste to strangle random teenage hookups without warning, lie to the police that the hookup never happened, and throw a T-shirt with the remains of your own seminal fluid into the face of a policeman, at 24.

It's extremely bad taste to say "Fucking Faggot" on-camera, get fined for doing so and bizzarely appeal the fine, at 32.

It's extremely bad taste, at 35, to publicly slam a 16-y.o. underage teen and another for ‘homophobia’, when the kids weren't actually homophobic but, on the contrary, one simply expressed gay fantasies about wanting to "make out" with Bryant and the other simply observed that such fantasies suggest one is "gay". It's extremely bad taste for a 35-y.o. celeb to equate that normal exchange with his own action of saying "fucking faggot".

It’s extremely bad taste to be canonised at 41 over a preventable death due to one’s own recklessness regarding your own kid’s safety.

I fucking admire you R127

TY

R126, he admitted to what he did. It's in his statement quoted by OP.

[quote] [R126], he admitted to what he did. It's in his statement quoted by OP.

24 yr old Bryant admitted to fucking a 19 yr old women who wanted to fuck him, who joked about it afterwards and who had fucked 2 other men within the last 24 hrs. Which of course doesn’t mean that she lied about Bryant. However, we will never know the truth. It will always be his word against hers and everyone will continue to believe whatever they want to believe, regardless of the internet trolls attempts to re-litigate this. Anonymous voices online have no new info to add.

R130, it’s ironic that you’re admonishing people not to “re-litigate” or even examine/discuss the case - and yet you yourself freely misrepresent the case and erroneously quote Bryant’s DEFENSE team’s talking-points as if they were ‘facts’.

So, no, dear - if you’re going to [italic]misrepresent[/italic] the case, don’t complain if others call you out on it and discuss the case.

[quote] 24 yr old Bryant admitted to fucking a 19 yr old women who wanted to fuck him

No, Bryant admitted to “strangling” a younger female he had JUST met, R130. Interestingly, he never said the “strangling” was consensual. Moreover, he did not deny that the hospital-recorded bruises left around her neck were due to his actions.

He simply tried to shrug it off by bringing up a totally unconnected person (who was, moreover, on his PAYROLL) - his habitual long-term mistress, Michelle. He alleged Michelle would confirm that she (Michelle) consented, but Michelle had NOTHING to do with the case.

Then, bizarrely, Bryant asked the POLICE DETECTIVES (not the accuser’s lawyer - but the detectives!): “Is there any way I can settle this, whatever” - implying a potential offer of BRIBERY. It’s jaw-dropping that the police did not even question him much on this further, and simply let him off the hook for this.

Detective Winters then equally bizarrely promised Bryant: “We’re doing EVERYTHING we can to try to avoid this going out publicly. We’re working on that, okay”. Then the Detective back-tracked, but the first promise was already stated.

Detective Winters then said to Bryant (BEFORE the trial even began!):

[quote] “I’m NOT saying you’re a person that would do something like this, okay. I AGREE with you, I AGREE that you got caught up in the moment. Okay. [bold]NO DOUBT ABOUT IT, you know, no doubt about it WHATSOEVER.[/bold] What I think you got caught up in also, Mr. Bryant, is that, I agree, I, I COMPLETELY AGREE with you...”

[quote] Detective Loya: “Mr. Bryant, BY NO MEANS do we think you’re a sexual predator or …”

What kind of superficial ‘investigation’ is this? Police Detectives investigating an alleged criminal are NOT supposed to immediately take his side on any aspect before the trial even began.

Even the Sheriff (!), who made Bryant’s arrest, jaw-droppingly by default publicly argued for his innocence (again, BEFORE the trial even began):

[quote] Rocky Mountain News: [bold]“Foot-in-mouth Sheriff: The last time we had occasion to mention Eagle County Sheriff Joseph Hoy was in July, when he called Kobe Bryant, the man he'd [just] arrested for rape, a “FINE, UPSTANDING GUY” and a “ROLE MODEL.”[/bold]

[quote] internet trolls attempts to re-litigate this. Anonymous voices online have no new info to add.

No, R130. The first reason why this case SHOULD be discussed is because there is a lot of evidence (which did not even receive national coverage and was swept under the rug) suggesting there was no fair trial (i.e. an abysmal miscarriage of justice) for the accuser. Regardless of the verdict, this case was stacked against ANY accuser from the very beginning. The stink of corruption & systematic bias in the Colorado legal system (in favour of Bryant and powerful organisations like the NBA and Nike) was all over this case:

[quote] Denver Post: “2 days before the sexual assault case against basketball star Kobe Bryant was dismissed, the accuser called Eagle County DA Mark Hurlbert and said she couldn't go forward. The reason: [bold]the COURT LEAKED her PARENTS’ name and HOME ADDRESS on the JURY questionnaire handed to [Colorado] RESIDENTS called for jury service.”[/bold]

[quote] [bold]”My family and I have LOST TRUST that we can obtain a FAIR TRIAL in your court," the accuser's FATHER wrote … in a letter to the JUDGE.”[/bold]

[quote] [bold]Accuser’s mother’s letter to the judge: “Your Honor … You are aware of 3 people that have been ARRESTED for THREATENING her life. She has received literally hundreds of death threats on the phone, in the mail and e-mail. In addition, she has received thousands of obscene messages. We are constantly worried about her safety.[/bold] My daughter has lived in 4 different states in the past 6 months. She is followed everywhere by [Bryant’s] defense and the media. The defense begins to question everyone she meets. The media REVEALS her location. Her safety is at risk and she has to move again. She can't live at home, she can't live with relatives, she can't go to school, or talk to her friends … The last time she got a job the 2nd day she was there the media found her and began following her. Most employers are not willing to deal with the problems this brings to their business … her life is on hold and her safety is in jeopardy until this case is over.”

[quote] Denver Post: “Even if [the DA] Hurlbert has a solid case - and with sex crimes that's always a challenge - [bold]Colorado has a long history of protecting celebrities from the inconvenient consequences of breaking the law.[/bold] Whether it's the occasional driving under the influence arrest of the late John Denver or the sensational shooting death of skier Spider Sabich by singer Claudine Longet in 1977, the rich and famous have managed to get famously generous treatment from Colorado courts … Consider that at this point, JonBenet Ramsey speculation is its own literary genre, and, all in all, [bold]it makes Colorado appear to be the ideal place to go to get away with crime[/bold] … For Bryant, though, the closest comparisons are with the [bold]many professional athletes who've had run-ins with the law in Colorado. They've faced charges ranging from domestic violence and armed assault to fraudulent acquisition of prescription drugs. Rarely has anyone been convicted.”[/bold]

The second reason why this case should be discussed are the deep repercussions of its systematic miscarriage of justice:

[quote] Denver Post: “Sexual assault reports have decreased at the University of Northern Colorado, where the woman who accused Kobe Bryant of rape once studied, prompting speculation here that the high-profile case has made victims fearful of coming forward.

[quote] At UNC, 12 women reported being sexually assaulted through mid-October in each of the past 2 years, according to the campus Assault Survivors Advocacy Program (ASAP). 3 anonymous reports were made in the same time period this year by women who said they were attacked, but those women did not want to offer details or seek help. Campus police have not received any sexual assault reports this term but received 4 during the spring semester.

[quote] [bold]”If I were a victim of sexual assault, and I heard and saw things going on in the media with [Kobe Bryant’s accuser], it would certainly make me think twice about reporting it," University of Northern Colorado POLICE CHIEF Wendy Rich-Goldschmidt said[/bold] … "These cases are tough enough already and if you throw something high-profile on top of it, it becomes explosive."

[quote] Deana Davies, interim coordinator of UNC's ASAP program, said the Bryant case can confirm victims' fears that they may not have community support or that their reputations will be smeared in public if they report the attacks.

[quote] Nationally, well-publicized sexual assault cases like those involving the Roman Catholic Church are credited with raising the average reporting rate from the 30% range in the 1990s to 52% in 2002, the most recent federal figures available, said Jamie Zuieback, a spokeswoman for the Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network. Allegations in those cases were taken seriously and the victims' reputations were not smeared, she noted.

[quote] The Eagle woman who accused Bryant of rape attended UNC earlier this year but did not return for the fall term. In addition to the graphic details revealed during Bryant's preliminary hearing, [bold]2 men have been CHARGED with threatening to kill the woman [Bryant’s accuser][/bold].”

"Women lie, especially if they are looking for a big pay day. Ka-ching"

Men lie, especially if they are looking to avoid jail and avoid getting divorced which meant losing millions in terms of sponsorship deals in Kobe's case, Mr. "Family Man".

R131 You weren't in the room so you don't know what happened either way. It is ultimately a game of he said she said. However there are things that make Kobe look bad and things that make the accuser look bad. In those types of situations, men should stay away from women and women should stay away from men.

R134 It is more telling about women lying because there is a societal acceptance of always believing the woman. I have worked with women that lied about sexual harassment at a past job and got a big pay day. Not only that she got money for attorneys from her current boss who was having an affair with her! That relationship didn't work and she went on to cause more mayhem and mischief elsewhere.

[quote] You weren't in the room so you don't know what happened either way. It is ultimately a game of he said she said.

R135 - no, read R66. And, speaking generally, "he said vs. he said" is virtually all in-door rape cases. By your logic, rape laws should be abolished because 'no one is generally in the room with a criminal and a victim'.

[quote] In those types of situations, men should stay away from women and women should stay away from men.

In those types of situations, Courts should not continually leak information, in violation of state laws, to harass the accuser and help the accused.

[quote] It is more telling about women lying because there is a societal acceptance of always believing the woman.

R136, it wasn’t some simple pleb guy. It was Kobe “NBA Hero” Bryant and, disproportionately, many star-struck officials in the case (from Detectives to the Sheriff, who are supposed to maintain neutrality in criminal cases) [italic]automatically[/italic] expressed fangurl-like support for him - because of his NBA high status. Read R131.

At one point, Bryant threw a cum-stained T-shirt (with residual blood stains from the female accuser) AT a police officer’s face. Bryant was (1) meddling with evidence, and (2) disrespecting a police officer. But did he get significantly reprimanded for that? Nope. If any pleb tried that - the police would have you or me in a headlock on the floor for such stunts. But Bryant was let off the hook for this - because he’s a sports staaaah.

He made too much money for too many people.

If Weinstein had made a Shakespeare in Love-style success in the last decade, people would still be covering for him too,

When #metoo started, lots of people expected Michael Bay to be exposed (his MO is pretty much identical to Weinstein's and is as much an open secret), but he wasn't, because his movies still make a lot of money.

R130 we may never know the truth; personally, I found Kobe's words in his statement pretty damning not only for himself but for Shaq!

[quote] who had fucked 2 other men within the last 24 hrs.

R130, IIRC, even Bryant’s Defense team did not claim that. You are making that up.

The accuser had the rape-exam done 15 hours after the late-evening 11pm Bryant incident. Reportedly, she informed a hotel staff member, a bellhop, about the Bryant incident immediately (“he choked me”) after leaving Bryant’s room at 11:20pm, and got home by 12:15-12:20am. The morning after the alleged late-evening assault, she phoned her mother, asked her to come home and informed her about the incident. The mother reported seeing the daughter upset & crying. The accuser had the rape-exam done in the afternoon that same day.

During the Preliminary Hearing (not even during the actual trial), Defense attorney Mackey asked Detective Winters who interviewed the accuser an unanswered question: Could - theoretically speaking - the injuries be from having “sex with 3 men in 3 days?”. It was an uncorroborated and misleadingly-worded [italic]question[/italic] by the Defense team. In any case, 3 days would be 72 hours.

Then, around the time of the trial, this misleading anti-accuser smear by the Defense team (in transcript format) ‘magically’ & so-called ‘accidentally’ was sent by the Court’s clerks to 7 news outlets - for all the media to quote in a frenzy. It was a total breach of court neutrality & confidentiality rules.

The ONLY expert witness to testify at trial was Dr. Elizabeth A. Johnson, an expert (hired by the Defense) in forensic DNA analysis. Dr. Johnson said she had detected semen from a 2nd man [Mr. X] on various samples [NOT from any 3rd man]. The 2nd man's DNA was present, she said, in and on the woman, 'the purple G-string' she wore when she met Bryant and on yellow underwear she wore to the physical examination the next day.” Dr. Johnson suddenly said it was “likely” sex with Bryant preceded sex with Mr. X.

But: Dr. Johnson admitted it was her “interpretation” of the DNA evidence. Dr. Johnson was the Defense’s HIRED expert (they intentionally flew her out from California to Colorado). So the fact that she “interpreted” the DNA evidence in the Defense’s favour is hardly surprising.

The Prosecution was ready to counter that with their own experts:

[quote]“[DA] Hurlbert told the judge that Prosecution’s forensics expert Dr. Michael Baden can testify that the DNA from Mr. X could have been transferred from the yellow underwear to the woman’s thigh and that a study has shown live sperm can be found inside the vagina as many as 17 days after sex.”

[quote] “Prosecutors [also] followed … with a court filing about one of their witnesses, Canadian DNA expert Rick Jobin, who will testify that the DNA found in the woman's underpants could have been left there [many days and even a week ago], and certainly not just in the 15 hours between the woman's encounter with Bryant and her rape exam.”

But the 'duel of the experts' is not even the point here. The point is that the Court (suspiciously) LEAKED only the Defense's talking-points & uncorroborated anti-accuser smear to the press - which is why many people were misled into blindly believing the "3 men in 3 days" lie.

[quote] 19 yr old … who joked about it afterwards

How did the accuser “joke” about it, R130? Are you referring to the following:

[quote] “Photos of Bryant’s accuser at a Calgary bar that appeared in tabloids in the summer of 2003 were taken by acquaintances during a trip the young woman made to Canada that August. The woman went to Canada … over A MONTH after the [Bryant incident].

[quote] Kylie Robinson first learned from a friend the young woman was coming to Calgary and that she was the accuser in the … Bryant case. Robinson said PEOPLE SAW AN OPPORTUNITY [to exploit the accusor], [according to a report of the interview conducted Aug. 26 by Jolene Altwies, a special investigator with the New Mexico AG’s Office]. Robinson stated that OTHER PEOPLE … told her and her friends that they should TAKE PICTURES of (the young woman) because they could make MONEY OFF them,” the report says. The day after a group of acquaintances spent the night out with the young woman, they E-MAILED TABLOIDS to ask if the publications were interested in photos of Bryant’s accuser, the report says.

[quote] Robinson said that it appeared (the young woman) was HURT by the photos, but as they talked that evening, she just kind of “laughed it off” and said she wanted money for the photos too.”

[quote] Robinson also described to Altwies apparent erratic behavior by the young woman. “Kylie did not feel that (the young woman) was a victim of sexual assault because she seemed to make a joke of it,” the report says. But the young woman became very UPSET while watching a broadcast of that summer’s Teen Choice Awards, in which Bryant accepted an award ... “Kylie stated she went to the bathroom, saw (the young woman) CRYING and consoled (the young woman) by telling her that she was safe in Calgary because she is not in the U.S. and ‘just to have fun,'” the report says.

So what was the “joke”? That a whole gang of people were following & exploiting Bryant’s accuser even in Canada, trying to befriend her while secretly taking photos of her drunk in bars for the purpose of selling the photos for money, while she was periodically hurt, upset, laughing and crying? Her ‘humour’ might have well been dark humour given the absurdity of the whole situation of being followed everywhere and aquaintances trying to sell her out for money.

As for “jokes”:

[bold]“The father of the alleged victim in the Kobe Bryant sexual-assault case [had] sent a sharply worded letter to Judge Terry Ruckriegle [who presided over the Bryant case] … , expressing his concerns about the judge's actions during [that] year.[/bold]

"My family and I have lost trust that we can obtain a fair trial in your court. I only hope that you can someday realize the devastating impact your decisions in this case have had on victims and victim's rights across the nation."

In the letter, the father, whose name was redacted, blasted Ruckriegle's handling of the case so far:

[bold]"Over the past year, I have watched you in the courtroom with disbelief," he wrote. "I have watched as LEAK after harmful LEAK has gone UNPUNISHED. I have watched the defense attorneys manipulate the public opinion of my daughter with their pleadings on [the COURT’S own] WEBSITE while you did NOTHING.”[/bold]

[bold]The father also took Judge Ruckriegle to task for favoring defense attorneys:

"Your inappropriate and continual JOKES with Mr. Haddon (Bryant's Defense attorney) on a matter so personal and traumatic to my family are insulting," he wrote.[/bold]

"At the same time, you seem to take every opportunity to publicly criticize the prosecution and my daughter's lawyer."

The father said he was disappointed in Ruckriegle's decision to allow the continual electronic distribution of court documents without safeguards in place:

"One of the most recent mistakes regarding the transcript of the defendant's PAID expert has been devastating to my daughter," he said.

Who cares? Why are people so intent on rehashing a closed case hat was settled to the plaintiff’s satisfaction? Last week this old, nasty man died in my neighborhood. I hated his guts and the (admittedly small) outpouring of grief for him was sickening. There was plenty I could have said in response to those saying he was a great guy and everyone loved him, but I held my tongue. Nothing I said was going to affect him- it would only hurt his family, and most of them didn’t deserve that. It also would have been a bad look to make it all about me. And that is what I’ve seen too much of with the death of Kobe- people making it about themselves.

The detail that makes me think it was consensual is that during her rape exam she told the nurse that she gave KB a blow job AFTER the "rape" and that she didn't mention that to the investigator.

If she felt like she was forced to do that, that is DEFINITELY something she would have told the cop. If it was something she did willingly, that's DEFINITELY something that she'd want to leave out.

R144, it resonates right now because it’s a have vs. have-not issue. The wealthy can harass people and buy their way out of anything.

[quote] The detail that makes me think it was consensual is that during her rape exam she told the nurse that she gave KB a blow job AFTER the "rape" and that she didn't mention that to the investigator.

R145, no, that’s incorrect. You’re contradicting even Bryant’s own statement.

“The accuser told nurses at the hospital, who later told investigators, that Bryant made her kiss his penis”. NOT a blow-job.

LA Times: “Under cross-examination from Bryant’s attorney Mackey, Detective Winters […] said the woman told a nurse at a Glenwood Springs hospital […] that Bryant had insisted she kiss his penis before allowing her to leave his hotel room.”

[italic]Even[/italic] Bryant & his Defense team did NOT claim that she gave him a “blowjob” “after” intercourse. Bryant described the order of events as follows: (1) they kissed and fondled, (2) he told her to give him a BJ (it was “like 5 seconds”, according to Bryant, and he said he quickly got frustrated because it didn’t satisfy him), (3) he fucked her without a condom, bent over a chair with his hand around her neck, (4) he “stopped pumping”, she “slid off” and “nothing more” (apart from "kissing").

So there was NEVER any implication (from either side) that she gave him a “blow job” “after” intercourse - because that would go against BOTH the accuser’s AND the accused’s (Bryant’s) statements:

[quote] Detective Winters: “Did she give you oral sex or anything like that?”. Bryant: “Yes, she did.” Det. Winters: “For how [long], when did that happen?”. [bold]Bryant: ”For like 5 seconds. I said: “GIVE ME a blowjob and then kiss it”. She gave me a blowjob.”[/bold] Detective Loya: “So the blowjob lasted about 5 seconds?”. Bryant: “Yeah, it was quick. […] I just told her to get up [inaudible], she didn’t know what she was doing.” [Bryant then continues to describe the events that came next: that the accuser was bent over a chair and he fucked her from behind, with his hand on her neck.] Bryant: “And then she asked me to [inaudible] stop. I stopped and she went [inaudible] like this and stood up and then [inaudible] I backed off and [italic]that was it.[/italic] Detective Winters: “What do you mean she “slid off”? What exactly…?”. […] [bold]Bryant: “That’s when it stopped. I mean she, you know, slid off it, cause I stopped pumping […]”. […] Detective Loya: “And what happened from there, where did she go?”. Bryant: “NOTHING [happened after].[/bold] […] [quote] Detective Loya: “After the act was completed, where did you go, when you PULLED OUT you said she “slipped off”?”. Bryant: “I didn’t say she “slipped off”, she just, you know, removed herself from…”. Detective Winters: “You said earlier she “slipped off”, I don’t understand, I asked you [inaudible]”. [bold]Bryant: “I said she “slid off” ”. […] Bryant: “That was it and I stood there like this [inaudible] put it back in my pants [inaudible] so, you know, [inaudible] that was it, no more, NO NOTHING.” [/bold]

[quote] Who cares? Why are people so intent on rehashing a closed case hat was settled to the plaintiff’s satisfaction?

Because the criminal case was not Plaintiff vs. Bryant, R144 - it was The People of the State of Colorado vs. Bryant. The criminal investigation & proceedings are supposed to be carried out "to the satisfaction" of state principles. But there’s copious evidence that basic principles of justice which are in the interests of citizens (a fair trial, non-violation of court rules, etc) were thrown out the window in that criminal court-room in favour of Bryant.

The Denver Post: “Defense tainted Kobe case

The Kobe Bryant case has become a tawdry media circus, complete with possibly jury-tainting assertions that the alleged victim was promiscuous and the repeated use of her name, despite Eagle County Judge Frederick Gannett's orders against revealing her identity at this point.

Sadly, [bold]it appears that [Judge] Gannett has lost control of his courtroom, much as Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Lance Ito abdicated authority during the 1995 double-murder trial of former gridiron/media star O.J. Simpson.[/bold] We can't help contrast that "Trial of the Century" with the firm hand of U.S. District Richard P. Matsch, who never allowed defense attorneys to hijack the Oklahoma City bombing trials in Denver.

[bold]Neither justice nor the public interest were served by the sorry spectacle during Bryant's two-session preliminary hearing this week and last in Eagle.[/bold] The purpose of the hearing is to determine if probable cause exists to proceed to trial. […]

Some may question the tactics of the legal team representing the LA Lakers basketball star and whether defense attorney Pamela Mackey crossed the line between vigorous advocacy and dirty pool.

On Oct. 9, during the first part of the hearing, Mackey used the former concierge's name at least 6 times in open court, despite Gannett's having forbade it. After the first 2 times, Judge Gannett should have used the power of the contempt citation to ensure no repetitions.

The brazen use of the woman's name sends the unmistakable message to all Colorado rape victims that they should think twice before coming forward. Will [people] in unrelated cases be cowed into silence by what's happened in Eagle?

Mackey shrewdly introduced an element of doubt that could taint all potential jurors if the case reaches district court: an [uncorroborated] assertion that the young woman had sex with three different men in the days before the encounter with Bryant. Will any potential juror who heard the allegation be able to keep from thinking it establishes reasonable doubt even if it's never presented to the jury?

A library full of U.S. Supreme Court decisions protects the rights of the accused in criminal cases. Defendants have the right to confront their accusers at trial, which is guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution. We have no quarrel with that. If this case goes to trial, Bryant's attorneys will have the opportunity to cross-examine the woman.

Unlike the alleged victims in less-publicized cases, the woman in the Bryant case already has been subjected to a barrage of unrelenting vituperation in various media outlets in addition to anonymous threats that have driven her out of town. Gannett can't do much about that.

But he could have controlled what transpired in his own courtroom. Unfortunately, he failed miserably in that regard, and in the process may have allowed this case to become unavoidably flawed. [bold]And that's a loss for everybody.[/bold]

There is some psycho on this thread who is DEEPLY invested in Kobe being guilty.

Perhaps, R149

But that doesn't mean Kobe's innocent.

RIP, Kobe. My heart goes out to his wife and the three surviving daughters who won't have anyone to help raise them and be there for them.

Not having a dad sucks.

I get that men are going to stray, but why not hire a hooker and pay them for a fantasy. There's less likely to be rape charges filed afterwards.

[quote] There is some psycho on this thread who is DEEPLY invested in Kobe being guilty.

Lol, says the “psycho” KB fangurl @ R149 who keeps repeating like a parrot:

[quote] “I never believed her story … I still don't believe her … I'll [italic]never[/italic] believe her … slut … whore".

I've said I don't believe her. You, however, have written a fucking treatise on why he's guilty and KEEP insisting on it no matter what is said. WE GET IT---YOU THINK HE"S GUILTY.

[quote] WE GET IT

I love how the KB fangurl @ R152 refers to the voices in his head as “we” (plural) - early sign of schizophrenia :).

I didn’t write a “treatise on why he’s guilty” - I quoted transcripts & letters regarding an obvious miscarriage of justice. Which is better than what you’re doing: not even checking basic case facts and blowing hot air.

“No matter what is said” - oh, you mean the media lies that you’re parroting, R152 / R46:

[quote] when it came out that she had several different guys' cum in her vagina

No, there wasn’t “several different guys’ cum” in her vagina. “Several” means “3 or more”. The “3 men in 3 days” sound-bite was a media lie based on a misleading, unlawful leak by the Court (a leak based on an unsubstantiated, ‘theoretical’ suggestion [italic]asked[/italic] by the Defense - which proved to be false).

The accuser told investigators that she had protected sex about 2-3 days before meeting Bryant, and no sex between that encounter and her exam (in the less than 15-hour window from 11pm to ca. 2pm next day, during part of which she was monitored at work and at home by her parents and the police).

The accuser also stated she celebrated her 19th birthday 12 days before the Bryant encounter with an ex-boyfriend, having unprotected sex.

The DNA lab results aligned with her story: ONLY 2 DNA specimens were found - of Bryant and Mr. X.

The DNA from Mr. X consisted of only the portions of sperm that remain after it has degraded over time. "Generally, when degraded sperm is all you see, it means SEVERAL DAYS have gone by," said Ronald Singer, President of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences.

“[Mr. X’s] was old sperm – there were no tails left on the sperm", so it couldn’t have come from a recent ejaculation, said Dana Easter who was assisting the State of Colorado in that case and who specialises in sex crimes.

[quote] I'm sure she went after him with guns blazing and then when he didn't want to leave his wife after a one-night stand with her

R152/R46, Bryant never mentioned that he discussed his wife or mistress with the accuser. Bryant confirmed that he planned to meet the 19-y.o. again the next day - so he didn’t necessarily plan it as a “one-night stand”.

If she had wanted money & attention from him - it would have been [italic]far[/italic] easier to pursue a pregnancy route than a criminal trial route (b/c less than 1% of alleged rapes result in felony convictions). Remember: He decided to fuck her without a condom and they found his sperm inside her. (When Detectives told him that females can get knocked up that way, Bryant expressed surprise, lol).

So she could have had LOTS of payout from him by first simply waiting & checking if she got knocked up & becoming a set-for-life babymama, or by blackmailing him about exposing his ‘extra-curricular activities’ to his wife. But she did neither of those things - she called her parents/family & the police. See, by contrast, fellow NBA stars Paul George, Dwyane Wade, etc, etc, who all got strippers/waitresses/fill-in-blank pregnant and then had to pay their babymamas.

[quote] If he raped her why did she refuse to testify?

R152/r46, because people from multiple states (US, Iowa, etc) were intimidating her by sending her death threats and even soliciting to assassinate her:

[quote] [bold]LOS ANGELES -- Prosecutors charged a man with solicitation of murder … for allegedly offering to kill the Colorado woman accusing LA Lakers star Kobe Bryant of rape. Patrick Graber, 31, was also charged with one count of solicitation to dissuade a witness[/bold], the DA’s office said. […] If convicted of the 2 felonies, Graber would face up to 12 years in state prison. […] Graber was arrested in suburban El Segundo [LA county] by undercover sheriff's investigators who set up a sting at a supermarket parking lot. He was identified as a Swiss national with an expired visa who worked as a bodybuilding coach at a local gym. Detectives said Graber wanted $3 million to carry out the plan and had arranged to pick up a $1 million payment. Investigators had filled a bag with prop money…

[quote] [bold]Graber is the SECOND man arrested in connection with the case. John Roche of Iowa City, Iowa, is awaiting trial in federal court in Denver after pleading innocent this month to leaving a profanity-laced DEATH THREAT on the accuser's answering machine. He remains FREE on a $250,000 unsecured bond.[/bold]”

[quote] [bold]Graber was eventually sentenced to 3 years in prison and then released a book called “Dead Women Tell No Tales”.[/bold]

[quote] [bold]A federal judge sentenced an Iowa man to 4 months in Federal Prison … for leaving a profanity-laced death threat on the answering machine of the woman accusing NBA star Kobe Bryant of rape.[/bold] Prosecutors said Roche left the message …, [bold]threatening to use a coat hanger to assault the woman and repeatedly vowing to kill her. It was one of a number of death threats her attorney says she has received[/bold] since accusing the Los Angeles Lakers basketball star of assault.

[quote] [bold]Assistant U.S. Attorney General James Allison likened the profane message to a "verbal gang rape" of someone who has become a TARGET for simply reporting an alleged crime. The woman's mother told U.S. District Judge Walker Miller the threat was so graphic and cruel the family believed the man would follow through on it.[/bold]

In violation of Colorado’s “rape shield laws” and courtroom rules, Bryant’s lawyers exposed her full name and the Court then leaked that info & transcripts (along with her parents’ home address) to multiple media organisations who published it.

Bryant’s lawyers and the Court should have been sanctioned - but the authorities didn’t do anything.

Going against a billion-dollar organisation and its asset (Bryant) is like going against the Mafia or the Catholic Church. She was a key witness for the prosecution and she should have been put in witness protection.

I find the whole thing distasteful. I don’t know if he was a rapist or not. Did other women come forward, or has it only been the one? I also think it was gross that he was trying to brand his 13-year old daughter. Nepotism makes me sick.

Regardless, I don’t worship athletes or actors - or anyone. His daughter’s death made me extremely sad.

I don't think it's nepotism when the child has actual talent which Kobe's daughter had - genetics and all.

It's not like Tori Spelling who could string two words together and became a TV star.

R157, what she lacked in talent she made up for in looks

R153 One of her other lovers refused to give a sample! So could she have had sex with more than two guys if the samples didn't match?

R159, I'm sure she had sex with more than 2 guys in her life but that's irrelevant. Just like it's irrelevant that Bryant had sex with more than 2 females in his life.

The internal body injuries the hospital recorded were fresh - the traces of blood on Bryant's shirt were fresh - Mr. X's material was reportedly old (that sample was already at the stage of deteriorating). So it's irrelevant who old Mr. X was - it was a deflection tactic by Bryant's lawyers.

This was not a case of establishing paternity in a pregnancy case. This was a case of bleeding internal injuries from a fresh encounter which the hospital said were consistent with violence - the overall evidence pointed to Bryant (the blood traces on his shirt, etc).

and now Gayle King is getting threats over a CBS report referencing this time in Bryant's life.

what a world.

The woman refused to testify. Gave differing stories and by the time of trial was pregnant with another guys kid. Some Women are now as aggressive as men about sex. She likely targeted him and I heard she volunteered to bring room service to him. Not a great or sympathetic witness.

R162, plenty of shades of gray, but when she said no and he's choking her and he tells the police he didn't know how strong he was?

at the very least, DUMB on his part; at the worst, criminal.

[quote] by the time of trial was pregnant with another guys kid.

R162, that was a disingenuous smear by the media. The criminal trial was MORE THAN A YEAR after the alleged assault. The alleged assault happened in June 2003. Nearly a year later - the judge in the case still didn’t set a trial date. Bryant only entered his plea of “not guilty” in May 2004! The criminal trial began in August 2004 - 14 months AFTER the incident. The civil case started even later - February 2005 - by which time the accuser was trying to move on with her life and got MARRIED and pregnant. In 2005, she was accompanied to the civil-case courtroom by her HUSBAND (not just some random ONS “other guy”).

June 2003 and February 2005 - different years, R162. This confusion was a 'sensationalised' smear tactic by the media - as if they expected the witness to stay single and not to marry or have kids for years and years.

The Bryant case moved at a suspiciously glacial pace - the shady judge didn’t seem to want it to start or move forward. By comparison, the O.J. Simpson case was much more expedited: alleged murder happened in June 1994, Simpson pleaded “not guilty” a month later in July 1994, trial started in Jan. 1995 (just 6 months after the incident), the criminal case was [italic]fully completed[/italic] and Simpson was acquitted in Oct. 1995 (16 months after the alleged murder). But the Bryant criminal trial [italic]only began[/italic] 14 months after the alleged rape and would probably take another year to finish.

[quote] I heard she volunteered to bring room service to him.

She wanted autographs from Bryant. This was stated by the key witness and not disputed by Bryant - he corroborated it himself, R162. He showed the detectives the autograph papers and pen she brought. The Detectives asked Bryant why he didn’t give her those autographs and why these items were abandoned (i.e. asking if something went unexpectedly violent or south during the encounter) - Bryant strangely fumbled for an answer:

[quote] “Detective Winter: “Okay, why wouldn’t you give her an autograph that night compared to waiting for tomorrow? I don’t understand that.” Bryant: “I don’t know. I just, I just, I just do it like that, that’s what I do. Like sometimes I feel like signing shit right there on the spot, sometimes I don’t. I mean, you know, [inaudible] she hands me the envelope [with the autograph papers], um … it’s not like you have a lot of basketball stars here, you know.” Detective Loya: “Where’s the envelope?”. Bryant: “Here’s the marker.” Detective Loya: “Ok, she gave you this marker?”. Bryant: “Yup. This is the envelope that was there [inaudible] and these papers were folded up in there, inside there, so it looked a lot thicker than it actually is.” Detective Loya: “Okay, so she gave you this and she wanted you to sign all these [inaudible] autographs? And you told her you’d do it tomorrow?”. Bryant: [inaudible].”

[quote] Gave differing stories … Not a great or sympathetic witness.

The key witness actually never changed her story about the assault itself, r162. She only corrected (voluntarily - and BEFORE the case even went to trial) 2 [italic]tangential[/italic] details that preceded and followed the alleged assault:

The 1st detail was completely trivial and had no relevance to the rape case whatsoever (she told her employer that she was later for work because of car trouble, but it was actually because she was just late - she corrected that before the case went to trial). This detail has zero relevance to the rape case.

The 2nd was about what happened [italic]after[/italic] the rape. She said Bryant insisted she wash her face. Before trial, she voluntarily corrected that (of her own accord, without even being asked by the Defense yet). She said that she worried that people wouldn’t believe her unless she explained why she wasn’t weeping in public. Because that’s how people superficially think - unless you weep, you can’t be a victim.

By contrast, Bryant lied 4 times - not about one tangential detail like the witness, but about the actual core of the case (which is much worse). He lied he didn’t have any type of physical contact with her 3 times (and outright refused to correct his record until the police told him they have indisputable evidence to the contrary). He then contradicted himself about whether or not she verballly agreed to sex.

And then Bryant strangely asked the police during a criminal investigation about how he can essentially bribe the state's key witness to keep quiet.

Bryant was not a great or sympathetic defendant - far more than the key witness.

[quote] The woman refused to testify.

R162, she refused to testify in an obviously corrupt COURT which unlawfully breached Colorado laws (in Bryant’s favour) and threw the witness under the bus multiple times, by putting the witness and her family in danger.

Bryant’s lawyers and then the Court unlawfully leaked her name and her parent’s home address to the media multiple times, in violation of Colorado rules - which resulted in violent DEATH THREATS to the key witness and even a further 2 CRIMINAL TRIALS about people promising to assassinate the key witness.

On July 30, 2004 the Court AGAIN leaked information about the accuser - her name, etc (this time on the Court’s OFFICIAL WEBSITE). 6 days after, this prompted reports (on August 5, 2004) that the key witness was alarmed by the Court’s unlawful actions and was re-considering "whether she can be treated fairly in the criminal justice system”. On September 1 she refused to cooperate with that Court.

R166, she also amended her story to include "kissing his penis," a detail she "forgot" to mention to the detective. She said it happened after the sex; Kobe said it happened before.

As a female (but not a frau) I can say that if I was sexually assaulted vaginally and then when that was over he stuck his penis in my mouth, I would feel more violated by the oral sex. That would NOT be something that would slip my mind when reporting my rape. However, if that was something I did willingly in the beginning of our encounter (like Kobe contended) I wouldn't be so eager to share that information. I'm guessing that when the nurse was swabbing her mouth she figured she might find semen, so she had to explain how it got there. By saying it happened after the attack she was killing two birds with one stone.

The other thing I wanted to mention is that the first time I had sex with a man who was well-endowed, the next day my vagina was bleeding and sore, and it was swollen for a few days after that. I had not been assaulted (it was a great night, actually), but if I had gone for an examination it would have looked like I had been.

[quote] The other thing I wanted to mention is that the first time I had sex with a man who was well-endowed

R168, there is no evidence that Bryant was “well-endowed”. If he had been - that would have been raised as a hypothesis by his Defense lawyers. But they didn’t raise it - instead, his lawyers desperately asked in a closed-door pre-trial hearing if the internal injuries could be the result of “3 men in 3 days?” (a far-fetched hypothesis which turned out to be uncorroborated, but which the Court leaked in a transcript to the media to smear the witness). So if Bryant’s own lawyers went with that hypothesis - it suggests that Bryant was not well-endowed enough above average for his lawyers to hypothesise his size caused the injuries.

[quote] As a female (but not a frau) …. the next day my vagina was bleeding and sore, and it was swollen for a few days after that

The Hospital assessed the internal injuries (1 cm lacerations and “countless” other ones) and reported that it was consistent with violence. A sex crime specialist brought onto the case agreed. Medical hospital experts (who have seen hundreds, if not thousands, of bruised, bleeding vaginas in their day) know better than average DLers what constitutes lacerations from normal sex vs. violence.

You mention you’re not a Frau, but the strange argument (‘oh, I have a vagina - big whoop - and it bled once!’) is very Frau-ish :). The hospital and medical sex-crime specialists (some of whom own vaginas as well) know the difference between normal, acceptable injury-level from regular sex and unusual lacerations from violence.

”This was one of the strongest acquaintance-rape cases I’ve ever seen,” said a former medical nurse, Dana Easter, who was assisting the State of Colorado in that case and who specialises in sex crimes.

[quote] she also amended her story to include "kissing his penis," a detail she "forgot" to mention to the detective. She said it happened after the sex; Kobe said it happened before.

R168, Bryant claimed there was pre-intercourse oral sex. The witness claimed he made her “kiss his penis” (no oral penetration) post-intercourse - which is [italic]more[/italic] consistent with the hospital not finding any semen or sperm in the oral swabs. In any case, neither of this negates the evidence of genital violence (which is the core of the case - vaginal rape - the witness never claimed he orally raped her).

[quote] I'm guessing that when the nurse was swabbing her mouth she figured she might find semen, so she had to explain how it got there. By saying it happened after the attack she was killing two birds with one stone.

The oral swabs did not find any semen. So highly unlikely that the witness felt the need to update the record because of that. And if she were so Machiavellian ‘cunning’ and trying to ‘kill birds with stones’ - she wouldn’t have worn underwear from a previous encounter to the exam.

-I believe in KB's first interview with the police they ask about his penis size and he says it's big. (You have a photographic recall of every detail of this case, you should remember that.)

-I didn't say she changed her story after they didn't find semen in her mouth; I said she was afraid they might so that's why she had to explain how it got there.

-The only reason I relayed my own experience is because most people reading here don't have intimate knowledge of vaginas, so I wanted to give a quick tutorial.

-The other thing I forgot to mention that makes me doubt this was a rape was that he asked if he could cum on her face, she said no, and so he didn't. From what I understand, most rapists don't take requests.

R171, frau, you should know that there is no fast and hard rule for rapists.