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Methodist Church votes to ban gay clergy and same sex marriage

And people wonder why the minute I hear someone is a "church goer" I don't like them.

by Anonymousreply 12203/17/2019

I thought the Methodists were relaxed about this stuff.

by Anonymousreply 102/28/2019

Ugh silly ... religion in 2019. People are still into that stuff. Wow.

by Anonymousreply 202/28/2019

LOTS of people are, R2. It's astonishing to me.

by Anonymousreply 302/28/2019

I was raised as a Methodist, and I was sort of proud that the United Methodists were one of the more progressive Protestant denominations. This is truly disappointing.

by Anonymousreply 402/28/2019

The Church will split over this, just as the Episcopal Church has. The main reason, for this, is because the United Methodist Church, just like the Anglicans, are seeing most of their growth coming from sub-Saharan Africa. Most of those countries are anti-gay to the point of criminalization. The leadership of the church is spineless and more concerned with growing their numbers there, than actually following the words of Christ.

by Anonymousreply 502/28/2019

^ I was just about to post that. In this case, the schism will likely mean the pro-gay faction splitting off.

by Anonymousreply 602/28/2019

I am not at all religious but I grew up in the Episcopal Church and loved it. Even back in the late 80s we had a female priest who was clearly a lesbian. I was in high school at the time and was an acolyte, lector and chalice bearer. I loved my church family; they were some of the most interesting and progressive people in my small town. My priest was the first person I ever told that I was gay. It seem unimaginable that other religions promote "god" and "forgiveness" but turn their backs on so many.

by Anonymousreply 702/28/2019

My sister in law has turned my brother into a church-goer and now she got my niece (at age 23) going to evening bible study. I feel sad for my niece and sickened by her mother for not allowing her to grow her own wings. This article just confirms my feelings of disgust for organized religion.

by Anonymousreply 802/28/2019

Lutherans are generally more accepting. There is no world-wide body of Lutherans, and the largest federation of Lutherans have organizations with diverse opinions and practices concerning homosexuality.

by Anonymousreply 902/28/2019

[quote]This article just confirms my feelings of disgust for organized religion.

Same here, R8. It really upset me reading it.

by Anonymousreply 1002/28/2019

It’s about time. I’m so tired of these gays in my church.

by Anonymousreply 1102/28/2019

You must be Catholic, R11, if you've got a lot of gays in your church.

by Anonymousreply 1202/28/2019

[quote] religion in 2019. People are still into that stuff. Wow.

Unfortunately, there are people who rely on fairy tales rather than logic to get them through hard times, and it's pretty sad to see them forcing it upon their kids as a means of coping.

by Anonymousreply 1302/28/2019

r10 I used to get worked up over these things as well. But it's religious sects cannibalizing themselves from the inside out and all I feel now is schadenfreude. They're just going to keep fragmenting and losing their grip over society that way.

by Anonymousreply 1402/28/2019

I just love it that the Methodists are bringing back the Nazi salute

by Anonymousreply 1502/28/2019

Good, let them discriminate against the LGBT community. It’s a great way to ensure that LGBT families don’t attend these services, and put money in the pockets of people who support an utter piece of shit for POTUS, and policies that are harmful to the community, as well as to women and children.

I can’t wait to see the day that this country stops supporting all of the religious hypocrites. They are a disgrace to mankind.

If you want to serve Jesus, do it at home, with other members of the LGBT community. Where two or more are gathered, He is there. No need to support institutions that bastardize the Good News.

by Anonymousreply 1602/28/2019

UMC has prohibited sexually active gay clergy and condemned homosexuality as incompatible with Christianity shortly since its creation in 1968. It later banned same-sex marriages and unions from being celebrated in its churches or by its clergy in the 90s. There are many evangelical Methodists in the US too, not just Africa and Asia. The church is split, but a slim Majority think homosexuality is a serious sin prohibited by the Bible. Progressives are almost all in the US, whereas the growing international branch of the UMC are almost unanimously evangelical.

by Anonymousreply 1702/28/2019

Christianity is a hate cult.

by Anonymousreply 1802/28/2019

Even in the US, the liberal Methodist churches are generally smaller and declining in members. It’s the conservative or evangelical congregations that are growing.

by Anonymousreply 1902/28/2019

and soon they will all age out and die

by Anonymousreply 2002/28/2019

Religion will NEVER solve any problems or be fully pro-gay. Never, ever let your guard down with it or religious people. Just by being religious they've shown they're willing to believe or go along with almost anything. The more people turn away from these stupid religions, the more most of them will double down on shit like this. Pathetic.

by Anonymousreply 2102/28/2019

Even among American UMC members, twice as many say they are theologically conservative than day they are progressive. Evangelicalism is quite strong among American Methodists.

by Anonymousreply 2202/28/2019

In findings released earlier this month, the survey found that 44 percent of respondents identified as “Conservative-Traditional,” 28 percent identified as “Moderate-Centrist,” 20 percent identified as “Progressive-Liberal,” and 8 percent identified as “unsure.”

Chuck Niedringhaus, senior director of marketing research and local church outreach at UM Communications, said in a statement Wednesday that the findings counter misconceptions about the UMC’s theological makeup.

“Oftentimes we think the denomination is equally divided. It was important for us to see that the plurality of people see themselves as more conservative,” said Niedringhaus, as reported by United Methodist Insight.

The survey report also found that Conservative-Traditional respondents were the most likely to report attending worship once a week at 35 percent. From there, it was Moderate-Centrist at 27 percent, and Progressive-Liberal at 23 percent.

by Anonymousreply 2302/28/2019

Yeah, a lot of liberal Christians just aren’t making much of their Christian faith, often not attending service, going to Bible study, going to church meetings, or speaking out on theological matters. Conservative Christians are largely active in church life.

by Anonymousreply 2402/28/2019

How can the Methodists think they can get away with this?

The Datalounge is proof that gay men take the best covered dishes to pot-lucks.

by Anonymousreply 2502/28/2019

Methodists are much more numerous in the South than the other old mainline denominations. As such, UMC has a huge conservative and evangelical contingent in the US.

by Anonymousreply 2602/28/2019

I attend (sometimes-about 15 miles away) a Lutheran Church in a medium sized southern city. They outreach to gays and lesbians. There are some old time seniors, and plenty of gay and lesbians, couples and singles. The number of children attending are usually low. There's also different races and international students. The church had a packed vigil/prayer service for the Pulse nightclub victims, though it is in another state. Large metro areas have gay websites that list gay-friendly churches.

by Anonymousreply 2702/28/2019

My boss and her entire family attended SMU. She is not into the gays. She has 2 daughters... one is 35 and gives voice lessons for a living. Wonder if boss lady realises her daughter is a lesbian?

by Anonymousreply 2802/28/2019

Methodists are more conservative than the Episcopal Church

by Anonymousreply 2902/28/2019

There's madness in their methodism.

by Anonymousreply 3002/28/2019

Why is anyone really surprised by this?

One mainstream religion believes in pedophelia, and now the other major one openly denounces gays. And the evangelicals are just mentally deficient all around.

Why waste time on any of them? I don't get it.

by Anonymousreply 3102/28/2019

They are a major percentage of the population and have huge influence on culture and government. Moreover, many lgbt people live in evangelical families, some even attend such churches

by Anonymousreply 3202/28/2019

True

by Anonymousreply 3303/01/2019

The ban has existed for decades. They just voted to reinforce and strengthen it against efforts to loosen it.

by Anonymousreply 3403/01/2019

Shame on them

by Anonymousreply 3503/01/2019

The odd thing about the vote is that the denomination’s governing body, large numbers of clergy and many, many members from around the world were in favor of rewriting the guidelines to bring the church into the 21st century. But, the leadership and many of those clergy are not the ones who vote at the conferences where they decide church policy. Voters are from around the world.

by Anonymousreply 3603/01/2019

Methodists = Baptists who can read

by Anonymousreply 3703/01/2019

True r36, but the members of the church are much more conservative and traditional than Bishops and clergy, including in the US.

by Anonymousreply 3803/01/2019

The UMC has lost some of its largest and fastest growing congregations already over the perception it is too liberal and unbiblical, and many others were threatening to leave if the church’s stance on sexuality was changed. The UMC has already lost a huge number of members in the US over perceptions it is too liberal, like all the liberal old denominations. There is fear the Church would be decimated by a more liberal policy, as has happened with churches that adopted them.

by Anonymousreply 3903/01/2019

[quote]Every non-Jewish religion is a hate cult.

Fixed

by Anonymousreply 4003/01/2019

Isn't it a wonder that so many people base their morals and world view on a piece of fiction written three thousand years ago?

by Anonymousreply 4103/01/2019

The American Baptist denomination is often considered an old mainline denomination, and it still has strong prohibitions on homosexuality.

by Anonymousreply 4203/01/2019

Perhaps one of the least discussed members of the Seven Sisters of Mainline Protestantism is the American Baptist Churches USA (ABCUSA). Odd, since this Oldline denomination still maintains traditional biblical sexual ethics, making it one of only two Mainline Protestant denominations (besides the United Methodist Church) that have not changed their official disapproval of practicing homosexual behavior.

by Anonymousreply 4303/01/2019

They are ignorant and not very Christian.

by Anonymousreply 4403/01/2019

I'd be leaving UMC right about now and heading for a nearby UCC.

by Anonymousreply 4503/01/2019

Before you start singing the praises of Lutherans, note that there is a very conservative faction there as well. A Lutheran minister was defrocked for speaking at an interfaith memorial for the victims of Sandy Hook. That faction of the Lutheran church forbids interfaith dialog and would not make an exception for the slaughter of 20 elementary school children.

FYI, there are equally conservative factions among the Quakers, particularly the Ohio Yearly Meeting.

by Anonymousreply 4603/01/2019

Does anyone here attend the Metropolitan Community Church?

Also, my problem with finding a church, is that I am fairly conservative and evangelical in my theology, outside of same-sex relationships. I believe in the virgin birth, the miracles, substitutionary atonement, the dual-covenant , and the future return of Christ. I'm also not a fan of liturgical nor contemporary worship services.

by Anonymousreply 4703/01/2019

About 13% of gay Americans are evangelical. There are many others like you r47

by Anonymousreply 4803/01/2019

The most powerful Methodist pastors in the Kansas City area — and the nation — say they are prepared to secede from the second largest Protestant denomination in the world if their church does not quickly renounce its anti-LGBT stance.

At a worldwide conference in St. Louis on Tuesday, the United Methodist Church voted to uphold its ban on same-sex marriage and the ordination of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender clergy. The move also laid a new framework for punishment protocol, including financial penalties and excommunication, for those who violate the policy.

The vote is at once a resounding victory for the conservative faction of the church and a troubling peek into the future for centrists and progressives hoping to make the church more inclusive.

“This decision will have to change,” said the Rev. Adam Hamilton, pastor of the Church of the Resurrection in Leawood, who attended the conference. Resurrection, with four campuses and 22,000 members, is the largest Methodist congregation in the nation.

by Anonymousreply 4903/01/2019

R43 Actually the ABCUSA, affirms the historic Baptist position that each local congregation is free to decide such things for themselves. They did adopt a statement defining marriage as between one man and on woman and that homosexuality is incompatible with the Bible, but such statements are not binding on local churches or members. So there are affirming congregations that perform same-sex weddings, and there are those that do not. Apparently, there is even one congregation that has a transgender Pastor.

by Anonymousreply 5003/01/2019

Yes, true, but the official national policy is conservative

by Anonymousreply 5103/01/2019

Church is for sinners. That's you, me, everybody including the ones doing the banning of "gay clergy" and same-sex marriage. Bunch of nit-wit tight asses missing the entire point. I love how these folks make gay people their scape goats for all things unholy when there is so much evil going on in plain view. The next time someone calls you a sexuality derived slur, just remember that it was most likely a fornicating adulterer who said it. Also, remember the astronomical emphasis they (ALL CHURCHES) place on MONEY when their very own God (Jesus) had Himself preached against the accumulation of wealth and therefore, lived as a poor man while He walked this earth. They're all a bunch of hypocrites, and in many cases they are the embodiment of all that He preached against. Read the new testament. Jesus despised hypocrisy and the words "O ye hypocrites......" are found over and over again. DO NOT EVER allow other people to interfere with your God-given right to perpetual access to God, Itself!

Have a nice weekend!

by Anonymousreply 5203/01/2019

This is one of the biggest reasons as to why I left the church, and will never go back, aside from being an atheist, of course.

I cannot EVER, abide any religion or group, who hate or discriminate against the LGBT community.

I also find it EXTREMELY egregious that all of these religions and their leaders, discriminate against the LGBT community, while supporting people in office who fuck kids, fuck same sex partners, fuck outside of marriage, and fuck others who are not their spouse, while married.

There are NO EXCEPTIONS. If YOU believe that homosexuality is a sin, than you ALSO believe that paedophilia, fornication, and adultery are ALSO sins.

You don’t get to pick and choose, and if you are a true Christian, a true follower of Christ, you are very familiar with the commandments, and the “law” of God.

You cannot, EVER, tell me, anyone, or God, that you shut down and turned away “those” people over there, but gave those people over there, a pass.

Please just fuck off.

You are all disgusting hypocrites, and your hypocrisy will be your downfall, if I am wrong, and there is a God.

See you in hell, Angels.

by Anonymousreply 5303/01/2019

If anyone with half a brain still panders to organized religion for validation, they deserve to be banned. WTF is wrong with you all? Religion is a sham, designed to keep you down, shame you and take away your money!

by Anonymousreply 5403/01/2019

R53, uh, almost all majority churches say those things are also sin

by Anonymousreply 5503/01/2019

Major churches

by Anonymousreply 5603/01/2019

R53 speaks truth. 🙌

by Anonymousreply 5703/01/2019

The 2020 General Conference in Minneapolis will have 862 delegates — half clergy and half lay. Of those delegates, 55.9 percent will be from the U.S., 32 percent from Africa, 6 percent from the Philippines, 4.6 percent from Europe and the remainder from Concordat churches.

The 10 Concordat delegates come from the Methodist churches of Great Britain, Mexico, the Caribbean and the Americas, and Puerto Rico. They are Methodist denominations with which United Methodists have particularly close ties.

The largest single delegation — with 50 people — will come from the North Katanga Conference in the Democratic Republic of Congo. The largest U.S. delegations — with 22 each — will come from the North Georgia and Virginia conferences.

The 2020 General Conference also will include delegations from five new annual conferences created by 2016 central conference meetings. These are the Kenya-Ethiopia, Uganda-South Sudan, Rwanda Provisional and Northeast Nigeria conferences, all in Africa, and Hundred Islands Conference in

by Anonymousreply 5803/01/2019

According to this data, U.S. membership dropped below 7 million in 2016 to about 6.95 million people. That marked a decrease of about 1.6 percent from 2015, roughly the same percentage decrease seen in the last two years.

U.S. average weekly attendance fell to just under 2.66 million — representing a 3.3 percent decline. All five U.S. jurisdictions reported decreases in both membership and worship attendance.

However, there are bright spots in the data.

The Dakotas, Northwest Texas and Red Bird Missionary conferences all reported slight increases in worship attendance.

Overall, U.S. churches saw 108,071 new members join last year by profession of faith or faith restored. That figure includes people who completed confirmation or were previously unchurched for some time. Another 38,443 new members joined by transferring from another denomination. However, that didn’t offset the net loss of 115,884 members.

by Anonymousreply 5903/01/2019

The only thing I know about Methodists is, that is the kind of church Jennifer Garner makes sure the paps catch her attending every week. Of course.

by Anonymousreply 6003/01/2019

My Mother is Pentecostal. They believe in making a loud, joyous noise to God whenever and wherever they might be moved by the spirit to do so. It's kind of like having tourettes. Haha j/k.

by Anonymousreply 6103/01/2019

Pentecostalism is the fastest growing segment of Christianity

by Anonymousreply 6203/01/2019

Religion is a scourge on humanity.

by Anonymousreply 6303/01/2019

R61 The interesting thing is the Pentecostalism and the Holiness movement both trace their beginnings to the Methodists.

by Anonymousreply 6403/01/2019

True

by Anonymousreply 6503/01/2019

And much of today’s growing brand of global Methodistism is very charismatic and Pentecostal

by Anonymousreply 6603/01/2019

As NPR reports, membership in U.S. Methodist churches fell by 300,000 between 2014 and 2016.

by Anonymousreply 6703/01/2019

^ Well, she was AME (African Methodist Episcopalian) first, and my Great Grandmother was Catholic. We've got it all.

by Anonymousreply 6803/01/2019

Does anyone know to which denomination Aunt Esther belonged?

by Anonymousreply 6903/01/2019

R69 The preacher Rev. Trimble was Baptist. And, was played by the same man that played Amos on the TV version of Amos and Andy.

by Anonymousreply 7003/01/2019

Thanks for your expedient reply, R70. Now what about this guy?

by Anonymousreply 7103/01/2019

Thank God for atheists.

by Anonymousreply 7203/01/2019

R71 They tend to be small isolated holiness or pentecostal churches, usually independent, they are also crazy.

by Anonymousreply 7303/01/2019

Also a tiny number

by Anonymousreply 7403/01/2019

I loved Jan Crouch. She'd have my stomach hurting from laughing so much. I don't doubt anyone's faith and good works in God and God's name, but I'm still greatly perplexed as to the reason why they need so much money to do do it! haha

by Anonymousreply 7503/01/2019

Where's the gun when you really need one?

Send them to Jesus ASAP

by Anonymousreply 7603/01/2019

Vile comment ⬆️

by Anonymousreply 7703/01/2019

R55, these churches are filled to the brim with parishioners or congregants who overwhelmingly vote Republican, and support people in office who steal, cheat, lie, cheat on their wives, creep around malls, attempting to pick up underaged girls, have sex with same sex partners, and pay off porn actresses and prostitutes, so that no one knows that they cheat on their spouse, because they want to be POTUS.

That is what my post is about. Every, and I mean EVERY, gung-ho church goer who I know, claims that LGBTs will burn in hell if they don’t repent and stop having same sex relationships, yet easily and vigorously support politicians who break EVERY commandment from the God they claim to serve.

You cannot have it both ways. You cannot claim the blood of Christ, while promoting men who break every commandment, left and right, because he happens to run as a Republican.

THAT is hypocrisy, and that, is what Jesus was talking about.

Line up your actions to your beliefs, if not, you’re just another blowhard, talking to the wind, and setting a bad example to those whose souls you seem to be so concerned about, because they are married to their same sex partner for 20 years, and DON’T cheat on them.

You all know who you are, and so does Jesus.

by Anonymousreply 7803/01/2019

United Methodists have seen their number of North American congregants drop from 15 million in 1970 to barely half that today. Since 2007 alone, America’s oldline mainstream churches have lost 5 million members.

by Anonymousreply 7903/01/2019

I like the portion of the headline that showed up in the truncated list on the right: “Methodist Church votes to ban g”

by Anonymousreply 8003/01/2019

R15 Don't expose your ignorance.

It is the Chautauqua salute from the big camp meetings held in Chautauqua and the rest of the country.

by Anonymousreply 8103/01/2019

I gave up on religion long ago.

Any organisation that teaches us that we should love one another and then does the exact opposite in its day to day is hypocritical.

They are just a vehicle for conservatism, resistance to change, prejudice, intolerance and hate.

The exact opposites to Jesus's teachings.

by Anonymousreply 8203/01/2019

R78 The United Methodist Church is, politically speaking, a broad church, for instance both George W. Bush and Hillary Clinton are members, as are Jeff Sessions and Elizabeth Warren.

by Anonymousreply 8303/01/2019

I agree R82

by Anonymousreply 8403/01/2019

[quote]The United Methodist Church is, politically speaking, a broad church, for instance both George W. Bush and Hillary Clinton are members, as are Jeff Sessions and Elizabeth Warren.

Do these fucking assholes know that if you support an anti-gay religion YOU ARE A HOMOPHOBE! Saying you don't believe in "that part" of the religion you support only convinces assholes like yourselves that it is okay to support hatred and bigotry.

by Anonymousreply 8503/01/2019

R85 The only way that the church will change their position is if people who desire change, remain an active part of the church. By just leaving and walking away, you are validating the bigot's view that LGBT people cannot be a Christian.

by Anonymousreply 8603/01/2019

[quote]Methodists are more conservative than the Episcopal Church

Well, DUH, R29. Of course they are. The Episcopal Church has always been forward thinking. They have female and gay clergy. Henry VIII's church is one of the most progressive mainline churches around.

by Anonymousreply 8703/05/2019

Religion is just a social construct.

by Anonymousreply 8803/05/2019

As is class, race, etc., R88, so what's your point?

by Anonymousreply 8903/05/2019

The sad fact is that in these modern times of alienation, disconnection and transient populations, people have to join a church to find a sense of 'community'.

Of course these churches prey on that: "Say you love Jesus and we'll be your friend". Obviously a person can pray and worship anywhere, but that doesn't put money in the collection plate. It's a business, and a devious one at that (the concept of "ble$$ing$" raining down upon thee if you praise God is repulsive).

Then they coerce them into voting Republican.

by Anonymousreply 9003/05/2019

The point is, getting upset what religious, political, or racist people do is pointless. Social constructs = brain washing. You can’t fix them. Just move on.

by Anonymousreply 9103/05/2019

[quote]Methodists = Baptists who can read

Methodists = Episcopalians who got tired of squatting and Baptists who went back to drinking and didn't wanna get judged

by Anonymousreply 9203/05/2019

I'm a member of the local Episcopal church. We have a great, forward-thinking community with both a woman priest and a gay priest. If anyone votes Republican here, they are in the minority. There is also a pretty wide range of belief systems, and unlike the Catholic church, which was forced on me as a child, no one here wants to police your thoughts or lifestyle. I'm gay and on the executive board, along with other gay people and in addition to our gay priest, we have a number of gay staff members. I understand that a lot of people have no use for a church. I was a hard-core atheist for a long time before I decided to try this out. Believe me, we don't try to make anyone "come to Jesus" if they don't want to. What I like about this church is the group of people working together to try to help others and to better ourselves. If religion is not for you, that's fine, but not everyone who chooses to participate is ignorant or "brain-washed."

by Anonymousreply 9303/05/2019

R60 - she's probably filming another capital one commercial.

by Anonymousreply 9403/05/2019

They are pitiful the way that they beg for approval from people who beg for approval from a fictional deity...

by Anonymousreply 9503/05/2019

We have a Methodist church in town ( population approx 50,000) that is the CORE of all the local non-govermental social-services. This includes servoces to the homeless, a shelter, a food kitchen, donation center, holiday meals coordination, job services, etc, etc. They are also VOCALLY PRO-LGBT. I sincerely wonder what they will do with this pronouncement. That church, is going nowhere.

by Anonymousreply 9603/05/2019

The evangelical faction will only get stronger in the UMC because it is The global faction that is growing numerically.

by Anonymousreply 9703/05/2019

Even in many larger cities (looking at you, Denver), local religious organizations handle many of the social service needs of the community. One church recently here completed a low-income housing complex and has gardening programs to donate fresh vegetables and fruits to local food pantries.

by Anonymousreply 9803/05/2019

Is Glide Memorial still affiliated with the UMC?

by Anonymousreply 9903/05/2019

I think so

by Anonymousreply 10003/05/2019

R93 I'm an atheist but I thank you for your calm, balanced and accepting words.

by Anonymousreply 10103/06/2019

Utah legislature passes bill that will make sex outside of marriage legal

by Anonymousreply 10203/06/2019

"Church is for sinners. That's you, me..."

Speak for yourself, mary.

by Anonymousreply 10303/06/2019

R99 in any case, it's a great lube.

by Anonymousreply 10403/06/2019

Bump

by Anonymousreply 10503/07/2019

Methodist hymnody is second to none.

by Anonymousreply 10603/09/2019

Methodists = Muslims who speak English

by Anonymousreply 10703/09/2019

Fuck off R103. You damn sure don't impress anyone with your bull shit here.

"Mary"

by Anonymousreply 10803/09/2019

You might be "federally trained," but you're nothing more than a federally trained asshole!

by Anonymousreply 10903/09/2019

I’m so glad about this because I really don’t need to know about anyone’s bedroom preferences at church of all places. And when you display the dreaded rainbow symbol what you are doing is announcing to the public that you are either participating in or approve of lesbian scissoring and male butt sex. That’s private for behind close doors. I don’t need it crammed down my throat from any platform.

by Anonymousreply 11003/09/2019

Troll

by Anonymousreply 11103/09/2019

Pro el-jibbity = we’re still just as homophobic as ever but we won’t stand in the way of you chemically, physically and irreversibly emasculating your gay son.

by Anonymousreply 11203/09/2019

R106 Dear John, I am a middle-aged, long-time atheist but have recently read some extracts from your works and found them to be honest, straightforward and uplifting.

Can you recommend any of the hymns in particular for the fast-talking people of DL to listen to on Youtube?

by Anonymousreply 11303/09/2019

Bump

by Anonymousreply 11403/14/2019

r113: Love Divine, All Loves Excelling; Lo He Comes With Clouds Decending; And Can It Be That I Should Gain?; Christ the Lord Is Risen Today (a classic Easter morning opening hymn).

by Anonymousreply 11603/14/2019

The vote is being investigated

by Anonymousreply 11703/15/2019

Reporting today says there are more votes overall than people allowed to vote

by Anonymousreply 11803/15/2019

But not enough to change outcome

by Anonymousreply 11903/16/2019

R119, actually there are more extra votes than voted to condemn gay marriages—so there looks like a lot of fraud took place.

They will need a new vote if they want to maintain integrity whatsoever

by Anonymousreply 12003/16/2019

Hmmmm

by Anonymousreply 12103/16/2019

A schism is inevitable

by Anonymousreply 12203/17/2019
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