Datalounge is in Denial About Bernie Sanders Becoming the 2020 Democratic Nominee for President

We were right about him not getting the nomination.

OK, OP. I'm glad you got that off your chest.

There are way too many people announcing their candidacy.

Bernie, Elizabeth Warren, Kristen Gillibrand and Corey Booker ain't gonna cut it. Who told them to run? At least the Starbucks guy had the decency to run as Independent. He ain't gonna make it either.

He's just the best thing we have at the moment.

Trump is weak and others can still enter the race.

Bernie Sanders can bring back credibility and respectability that the Democratic Party needs, if he ditches the sex pests.

I think once the campaigning starts Bernie will show that he's a crackpot. He'll scare people to death, even liberal democrats. In my opinion he can't win. Joe Biden is who we need. A man who knows how to work with everybody and not try to ram crazy through things that have no hope in getting passed.

My prediction is he will never be the nominee. And neither will Kamala Harris.

OP, there's going to be a primary process, with a lot of different candidates on the stage. Bernie will have a lot more competition this time. We'll see how he does. Maybe he'll do well, maybe he won't.

But you're just trying to short-circuit that process, aren't you? Why?

[quote] Bernie Sanders can bring back credibility and respectability that the Democratic Party needs

Haaaaaahahahahahahahahahaha

I love Bernie & he will win. Harris is a fraud and Warren would not do well in the debates against Trump. Sanders would torch him.

Whatever. Let's get this thread to 600.

[quote]But you're just trying to short-circuit that process, aren't you? Why?

I'm not, but I can read the writing on the wall, but that's not even the point. I'm merely pointing out the reaction DL has to concept of him getting the nomination is akin to what happened in 2016 (Hillary will win, Trump stands no chance of getting the nom/winning/staying in office) and the need for DL to broaden its mind a bit. Bernie has the money and a huge following. It's going to be hard for the others to catch up to him. The party is not going centrist. Biden, who I'm more aligned with, doesn't stand a chance with the base. Whether or Bernie can win the general is another matter entirely. I just see the direction this is going. I'm prepared. DL on the other other hand...

Bernie's ancient and ineffective as a politician. Lots of people blame him for the election of Trump. So, while he's got an excellent fundraising machine, he has some serious negatives.

What seems to be forgotten in all the online political chattering is that the vast majority of Democrats aren't that far left. People talk about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez as the big new thing and ignore the fact that moderate Democrats beat Justice Democrats across the country. AOC was the ONE exception--and her election was flukey because the primary turn-out was so low.

Bernie has no particular pull with Blacks, Latinos, Asian-Americans or women--i.e. the demographic base of the Democratic party. He's got a crap record on gun control.

So, we'll hear a lot of noise, but push comes to shove, he won't win in California or the South--and the nominee will be someone who can gain traction on Super Tuesday.

Thanks for all your concern, OP. We are impressed with your concern for us. You aren't a troll at all. Concern.

Joe Biden will be the nominee, and he will beat the fat fucktard Trump handily.

OP: Where do you get your funding?

I like Warren because she's dignified and she's honest.

I would vote for Biden, but I think his fans overestimate his appeal. He's not the great white hope.

Don't underestimate Harris.

Beto could be the one to get the furthest of them all.

"OP is a secret BernieBro concern troll"

OR

"OP is a secret Russian sent here to divide us"

OR

"OP is a secret MAGA troll"

You are so right, r16. How could we be so blind! He is clearly just a fellow DLer concerned for his fellow DLers. Concern!

R16: This election is gonna be hell on this site. Never mind the trolls, they're bad enough. But the regular PUMAs and their anti-everyone who isn't a Hillary clone is making any real discussion here impossible. Sanders is the main object of their ire, but they also clearly hate Warren as well. As to OP, remember, the Dems use Proportional Representation to dole out Delegates at the state level (20% of the vote in a state, you get 20% of the statewide delegates plus whatever you win directly in the congressional districts). It's HIGHLY likely that if consolidation doesn't happen early, then we will see a brokered convention, the first one since 1976.

Yeah, why not get a little more creative beyond the usual tropes, like "OP is unwilling to work & excited about this".

[quote] But the regular PUMAs and their anti-everyone who isn't a Hillary clone is making any real discussion here impossible.

Yeah, the problem is people posting about Clinton all the time. Every other thread is about Clinton. It's Clinton central here. Yeah, that's it.

Warren would be my first choice, but Harris, Biden, and (gasp!) Sanders, I'd be OK with. Anyone who can beat Trump. Beto is a DINO, and, basically, the thirst trap of Aaron Schock proportions of the Democratic Party.

Sanders fans can't admit that he isn't perfect. Clinton fans have admitted her faults and have debated them time and time again. No one wants Sanders because nothing is ever his fault, everything that happens to him is because of "the establishment" . They ridiculed the great John Lewis because he dared to question Bernie's stance on civil rights. A civil rights hero who got his face bashed in by racist cops.

As a Clinton fan, I admire Warren. As has been said, she's honest and a class act. She knows her shit economically which would be a HUGE benefit to the country. All Sanders and his fans can do is cause trouble.

R22: Because John Lewis lied. He said Sanders wasn't there for civil rights and the Clintons were. Considering Hillary was in high school at the time while there is photographic evidence of Sanders protesting at U of C, it was damn stupid thing for Lewis to say. He's not above reproach because of his past heroism.

I'm annoyed by the concern trolling on apparently all sides, but especially against the Democratics. It isn't clever and its effect is minimal aside from disrupting conversation that will end up happening elsewhere anyway.

I've been a (Canadian) Sanders supporter for years but he's quite imperfect in several significant ways, and if he's to be filtered out in the primaries, I want to judge that it was done fairly this time. That's it. Already, offline and on the MSM, I'm seeing at least fairER critiques of his new primary run and of his past, now that the near-anointed (by upper DNC members and affiliates/supporters; sure, not everyone) Clinton isn't directly to do with this election, and I can only approve of this process. Less people are Red Scared about Sanders enough that they won't freak out about any popularity increases he may have, or potential win. We've went through a couple years of a Trump presidency and high approvals for Sanders and the Democratic party hasn't imploded into street fights and it turns out that some calls for increased socialistic programs and higher wealth taxes may actually help a nation that once did more of that and prospered.

Denial? Yes, I think much of DL is the epitome of echo-chamber aside from places like r/the_donald, but much of it is not, or are flat out invading trolls for Trump, Sanders, or whoever, only trying to muddy the (admittedly often too still) waters. DL is a place for intriguing discourse, but only rarely productive discourse.

That said, I still come here because it is good to see some perspectives - the ones I gauge as genuine. As I type, I'm reading R22; yes, its one of the weaker traits of Sanders' support base that they divert any blame away from him as if it may totally taint him. He's not their king, but for the most avid supporters, he's nearly a saint. But where I disagree is the believe that 'all Sanders and his fans can do is cause trouble'. I think there's been great political movements in the last couple years that can be directly or near directly attributed to Sanders and other progressive presences and protests in modern politics, and I don't think this will be ending, as more millennials enter politics and more baby boomers leave it.

Ninja please.

[quote]OP: Where do you get your funding?

Thank you for proving my point. 2016 all over again.

[quote]but especially against the Democratics.

Democrats, idiots.

[quote]but especially against the Democratics.

Democrats, idiot.

[quote] Thank you for proving my point. 2016 all over again. —OP

Yeah, that's not proof of anything...other than that you are a shit-stirring troll.

And yes, from any facts I've seen, John Lewis lied. He's been caught in several lies before. I wish he wouldn't, but the press has actually been alright in catching him on his lies. If Ghandi can be a bigot, John Lewis can be a liar when it suits him. It doesn't diminish his previous heroic work.

He had to issue a somewhat sly correction:

“I was responding to a reporter’s question who asked me to assess Sen. Sanders’ civil rights record. I said that when I was leading and was at the center of pivotal actions within the Civil Rights Movement, I did not meet Sen. Bernie Sanders at any time. The fact that I did not meet him in the movement does not mean I doubted that Sen. Sanders participated in the Civil Rights Movement, neither was I attempting to disparage his activism. Thousands sacrificed in the 1960s whose names we will never know, and I have always given honor to their contribution.”

”If you take a look at a transcript of my statement, you will find I did not say that I met Hillary and Bill Clinton when I was chairman of SNCC in the 1960s. My point was that when I was doing the work of civil rights, led the Voter Education Project and organized voter registration in the South in the 1970s, I did cross paths with Hillary and Bill Clinton in the field. They were working in politics, and Bill Clinton became attorney general of Arkansas in the 1970s as well. That began a relationship with them that has lasted until today,”

While the correction has technical truths, the matter of speech he was originally using was that he never considered Sanders to be a part of the activism of the 1960s but he considered the Clintons to be. There's many better ways he would have worded it if he meant otherwise.

R28 Democrats is something of a slur, even if people keep insisting on it. : Donald Trump has used the phrase repeatedly, both during his presidential campaign and as president.[35] In a July 2018 campaign rally, he said that "The Democratic Party sounds too good so I don't want to use that, OK?" He added, "I call it the Democrat Party. It sounds better rhetorically."[36] At a September 2018 rally he said, falsely, that "When you see 'Democratic Party,' it's wrong. There's no name, 'Democratic Party.'"[37]

This isn't about whether or not Sanders would be good or not or which candidate you like more - the fact remains, Sanders has a the biggest shot at the nomination. DL has to get it through its head and come to grips and stop stomping its feet and shutting people down. His cult is insufferable, but the fact remains that Bernie has everything in his corner when it comes to getting the nomination, like it or not. He has been preparing for this for four years now.

I'll vote for him if he gets it, but CHRIST his hardcore supporters are so loud and obnoxious. They're the same as the MAGAts. "My guy is the best! Shut up!" I've had to distance myself from some of my Bernie-loving friends because who the fuck wants to talk about him all day every day. It's been under 48 hours and I'm already over it. Wake me up in 20 months for election day.

[quote] Democrats is something of a slur

Only to idiots.

R31 Sure, and he can lose it too, like any who prepared for years.

There's at least a few major opponents along his way, and just one big scandal could crash him.

R33 There's already an academically studied history of this, so your ignorance is only that.

R31: I agree on the logistics, but I refer you again to the PR distribution of delegates. That makes a runaway with the nomination almost impossible unless he SWEEPS the primaries.

R33: Democrat Party is a slur used by Republicans because it sounds like Democrap. They've admitted that's why they do that and they do it to this day. It's slur on top of being illiterate.

[quote] DL has to get it through its head and come to grips and stop stomping its feet and shutting people down.

Clearly you have been shut down. You have been completely unable to offer your opinion. SHUT DOWN!

Or, you are say sort of idiot who told us the Republicans were going to keep the house in 2018 because DL was wrong in 2016. Same song, different key.

[quote] an academically studied history

Oh, fuck off. Even if this were a thing, it doesn't matter one bit. Five academics jerking off to each other at a conference has nothing to do with how people actually live.

[quote] Sanders fans can't admit that he isn't perfect. Clinton fans have admitted her faults and have debated them time and time again.

This may be the funniest thing I've read on DL thus far in 2019

"Debating her faults" =

"In retrospect, I wish she would have spent more time campaigning in Michigan."

DIE IN A GREASEFIRE EVIL BERNIE BRO!!! YOU ARE WE SHE LOST!!! THE DID THE PERFECT AMOUNT OF CAMPAIGNING!!! EVERYTHING SHE DOES IS PERFECT!!

followed by

How dare you say everything she does is only "perfect" RXX?? That is completely misogynist. Everything she does is BEYOND perfect. It is the ideal to which mere mortals can only hope to strive for...

R36 it also fits into Rat. This stuff is used all over; Rethuglican, Libs, Cons - but Democrat is a term that has seemed innocent for so long that even the DNC has gradually accepted it for themselves over the decades, to my annoyance. But no mistake should be made - it is an insult, as well as a distraction that the party at least SHOULD be embracing democratic principles to the American public whenever possible.

R39 I know a lot of Bernie fans (about 50/50 of whom voted for HRC in the general). They talk about Bernie like he's the second coming of Christ.

R38 its not 'how people live', but a crafted Republican strategy. By their admission. Get a clue - or if you already know and are just stirring the pot, fuck off.

I'll vote for whoever gets the nomination. I think the Dems would be smart to run a bland, vanilla candidate who has name recognition and won't do or say anything provocative - someone who represents tradition and constancy - and to settle on him quickly so that he's not killed by friendly fire during the primaries. That's the standard course when the other party is running a polarizing ideologue, yet we don't seem to execute very well. I don't think any of the current candidates fit that description. Biden is the closest, but he hasn't declared. If he does intend to run, the sooner we can get a microphone away from him the better.

I personally liked Sanders in 2016 and supported him and contributed heavily. I didnt care for his late primary performance or the way he submitted to Clinton and allowed her to treat his massive number of supporters like shit, which eventually cost her the election. You can blame Clinton s loss on Russian collusion if you want, but Clintons failure to embrace Sanders supporters and bring them into the fold combined with her high negative polling #s from the get go there was no way she was going to win, zero.

Sanders politics are ok, but he is too one note, was not very informed on the international front and for many mainstreet democratic voters he is too coarse and unpolished. Im keeping my eye on Swalwell.

Yes, it is a Republican strategy. But who the fuck cares? It only works on their base. Having a shit over it on DL is pointless trolling.

But R41, the term "the Pantsuit Jesus" would seem to indicate that works both ways.

And DL's sizable and vocal Hillary contingent is rather umm, North Korean in its defense.

There's one Defender of the Pantsuit who, every time someone mentions "unlikeable" screeches about how she was "voted the most admired woman in the world for 50 years!!!" neglecting, of course to mention that the "most admired woman in the world" thing is a PR stunt that Harris does based on a survey of around 1,000 people.

Could you explain how Clinton shit all over the Sanders voters?

OP, if you're not a concern troll (i.e., a disingenuous Republican or Sanders fan or shit-stirrimg bot), explain who your preferred candidate is and why. Try to be as specific and passionate as you are about DL being "in denial" or hating Clinton or whatever it is that motivated you to start this thread.

[quote]I love Bernie & he will win. Harris is a fraud

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Kamala troll from the Jussie threads.

I [italic]want[/italic] to like him, but I've yet to see anything substantive from him about he plans to effect his policies.

[quote] based on a survey of around 1,000 people.

As opposed to Bernie's popularity in polls which is based on surveying every single person on the planet.

Cults of personality are a problem, and Sanders does have one, that's not up for debate. But it's understandable why he has one. He came along and just stared campaigning on stuff that FOR SO LONG the Third Way said you absolutely must NOT say and NEVER campaign on. No Medicare for all, no college tuition reform, no $15 minimum wage. He comes along and does it anyway and people like hearing stuff they're all thinking but never hearing. One thing follows another and there you do. I personally am with Warren as she is more detailed and eloquent than him but her campaign is possible because he did shatter that Third Way third rail of never going left economically.

You can say John Lewis lied, however, dismissing his years activism just because you disagree with his comments is not acceptable. Was Bernie on the front lines getting his body beaten like Lewis?

As for Hillary being anointed, it was Sanders who got the easy ride from the media. No pushing for his taxes to be released. No questioning the college scandal and all the missing money. No delving into his attempt to dump toxic waste from his state into a Mexican immigrant town. No calling into account his "Rape Fantasy" essay. No questioning the Russia connections within his campaign.....

What's with Biden biding his time? He's going to crush Bernie if he runs.

OP, it's freepers like you who are usually wrong about politics. Remember all the concern trolls here saying Obama would lose in 2008 and 2012?

R53: Where did I dismiss his activism? WHERE? That's right I didn't. STOP. LYING.

I'm talking about what his supports did in 2016.

And stop with the ALL.CAPS.AND.PERIODS.TO.MAKE.A.POINT. You're among adults now.

R57: I shall do what I must to make my point. And that will be good enough for you.

OP is in denial about Bernie being a Russian asset.

Bernie is another puppet of Putin exactly the same as tRump. Fuck him.

R41 -- see R51 and why your comment is so funny

And as OP has stated, the last 2 asshole posts before R61 are proving his point even more.

HE KILLED OUR QUEEN!!

OUR BEAUTIFUL BEAUTIFUL QUEEN!!

IT WAS HER TURN!!!

HER FUCKING TURN!!!

NOT HIS!!

AND YOU MILLENNIAL BERNIE BROS DIDN'T GET HE MEMO.

YOU MOCKED HER.

CALLED HER "UNLIKEABLE"

MADE THOSE "HILLARY VS BERNIE" MEMES ON FACEBOOK

LAUGHED AT HER FOR SAYING "POKEMON GO TO THE POLLS!" (WHICH IS ACTUALLY VERY FUNNY SO FUCK YOU!!!"

AND THEN 50,000 OF YOU STAYED HOME OR VOTED FOR JILL STEIN!!!

OR THAT'S WHAT I READ ON DATALOUNGE ANYWAY!!!

AND THAT IS WHY SHE LOST!!

IF YOU LAZY MOTHERFUCKERS HAD VOTED FOR HER THEN TRUMP WOULD NOT BE PRESIDENT

AND I WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU

I WILL NEVER STOP TALKING ABOUT IT

I HATE YOU

QUEEN-KILLERS!!!

Well...that's certainly going to make me take you seriously, r63.

OP, what exactly is it you want from us?

The election is 20 months away and I'm already tired.

[quote]OP, what exactly is it you want from us?

Complete and total reverence.

This one is why so many of our older DLers love her

OP, who the fuck do you like? Anybody?

All this crap aside, Joe Biden is our best hope.

Like it or not, Joe teamed with a hot V.P. pick is really the only way out of this mess.

I'm from and live in Massachusetts. That Liz Warren is horrid. Bernie will never play in the Midwest.

There is still the dark horse Bill Weld. Life long democrat here but he is a good man.

I agree that Bernie will likely get the nomination. assuming this time there is no one on the inside effectively blocking him. Bernie does very well in the Midwest.

r69, I'm not young, but I hate when older people want to talk on the phone, or even worse in person, instead via text. That will be one nice thing when that generation dies off, except I'll be dead too.

R71, Biden plus Sherrod Brown?

The only Democrat that'll attract the 'pissed off at Trump' Republicans is a moderate. No way will a Republican vote for a Progressive Democrat like Sanders.

The only moderate Democrat I see right not is Joe Biden. Is there another?

And what did you prove or disprove asshole r62.. Not a fucking thing that's what.

Bernie for the most part stunk in his debates and his interview with the daily news was a disaster

Tad Devine, during his run as chief strategist for the Bernie Sanders presidential campaign, railed against the corrupting influence of money in politics. He repeatedly echoed the Sanders message that “our economy is rigged,” that “special interests” buy politicians, that “all of the new wealth is going to the top of America,” that there is a “corrupt system of campaign finance” of which Hillary Clinton offered an “egregious” example. Sanders, by contrast, “supported the little guy.”

Those who heard Devine’s interviews and watched his Sanders TV ads therefore may be surprised to know that, in the years and months leading up to the Sanders presidential campaign, Devine was making gobs of money to secure the election of one of the world’s most corrupt political figures and then his allies. Thanks to Robert S. Mueller III’s prosecution of Paul Manafort, the former Trump campaign chairman and sometime business associate of Devine, we now have an unusual glimpse into the role the Democratic ad man had in electing and preserving the power of Ukraine’s Viktor Yanukovych, a crooked pro-Putin autocrat. Though American political consultants routinely rake in cash from foreign leaders — even shady ones — Devine’s seamless pivot from advocate for antidemocratic thug to champion of a principled democratic reformer shows extraordinary flexibility.

Yanukovych’s fraudulent election in 2004 as Ukraine’s president was invalidated, but not before his opponent was poisoned by dioxin. Yet testimony in the Manafort trial and documents released by Manafort’s lawyers show Devine helped Manafort on Yanukovych’s comeback as prime minister in 2006 and successful presidential run in 2010. Devine produced a memo of advice for Yanukovych’s party in 2012, even though by then Yanukovych had thrown the leading opposition politician in jail and had built a $100 million mansion — complete with zoo, helipad, golf course and replica galleon on an artificial lake — while his people were, in Devine’s own words, struggling with “joblessness, hunger and the general despair.”

F&F this disgusting thread and OP

If Biden runs, I'll be voting for him in primaries. However, I'm not going to be shocked when Bernie gets the nomination in the end.

Great R80! You should start some threads about him. Try boosting some candidates rather than sowing conflict and division.

The minuses: Biden and Sanders are just too old, Warren can't get untangled from this DNA mess, Harris is unlikable, Booker is a buffoon, O'Rourke has never won a statewide election,Gillibrand has switched every position she has ever held, Castro is unknown, etc.

Which leaves Klobuchar. It's the year of the woman, but not one who has gone so far to the left that she can't win a general election. I predict Amy wins it all.

Bernie is so old he might die soon.

If he does R83, I can only imagine the conspiracy theories

R3, Bernie Sanders is a crook. Elizabeth Warren is running, because she has the knowledge and experience to change the financial future of most Americans. No other candidate has been responsible for establishing a federal agency.

Nonzsense, R52. Warren came about her positions through her legal work. She started in Commercial Law and realized after a bit that the little guy was getting screwed. She realized things could and should be different. Sanders is a grifter.

I'm in early elder gaydom. I don't want a president old enough to be my parent. These early (and pre) baby boomers need to let go of the joystick. Your time has passed. Let someone without grey pubic hair run the country.

R32, you're right, but if he cheats his way to the nomination, I'll probably leave that slot blank. Either way, Putin has won. This country will not be able to survive multiple terms of a crooked Russian asset president.

R71: Bill Weld is a whore who's been in about 4 different political parties. Plus no one has mentioned his smelly old ass as even running. Go to bed, grandpa.

R82, Warren is already "untangled" from your so-called DNA mess. She's a top Senator, excellent teacher so she explains financial concepts in a way that most people understand. People meet her and like her because she is genuine. She honestly is interested in their welfare and they can pick up on that. She is also proposing solutions that she actually understands and is not mouthing ideas from someone else, like Sanders does.

If Sanders wins the nomination, Trump wins again. The Socialist baggage WILL NOT FLY with swing voters, angry Republicans and those that voted for Obama (twice) and gave Trump a try. A centrist is what we need. Bring on the older whites males, please.

R91: Centrists will lose. The country is moving left. If we throw that away, we lose the election and any chance at realignment.

Not the swing states.

And Klobuchar is reportedly so nasty to her staff that they may well want her to die sooner.

I love how people swear the country is moving left when the front runner is a moderate who hasn't even decided to run yet.

The DNC won’t give Bernie the nomination

How will the DNC withhold it from him exactly, R96?

I was texting with a friend last night who was saying the same thing. The DNC doesn’t have that kind of control.

I think we should agree to not comment any further on this thread and revisit it when the nomination is won, and we’ll see if the OP was correct.

Please no further comments, thank you.

Hardy HAR, OP!

In our electoral system, we’ll need a centrist. Ya gotta get those midwestern votes. Sanders ain’t gonna do it. Sorry. But that’s the reality.

I predict the moment Bernie starts underperforming or losing badly he will revert to victim mode and blame the other candidates, the media AND the voters.

He ALONE knows ALL!

Insufferable old coffeehouse Socialist. Never does anything, complains about the coffee and is a shitty tipper! we all know the type.

Americans will elect a Black tranny as President before an Old Jew.

The point of all this is that you can hate the notion of Bernie being the nominee and can explain at length why it would be a horrible thing, but there's no reason to repeat 2016 and again say that someone can't possibly win when it is indeed quite possible and perhaps likely for them to win.

Bernie will be running against himself...

At the beginning of the '16 election cycle I was happy with Bernie or HRC and whoever won I was happy to support. Then the bros happened and Bernie did what he did. I will NEVER vote for Bernie and will work for ANY other candidate that runs against him.

[quote] The DNC won’t give Bernie the nomination

The DNC doesn't "give" the nomination, dear. Nor does it "steal" it from anyone.

If you had confidence in Sanders you would not peddle this bullshit. But I guess you don't think he can win on his own merits.

Bernie's schtick got old and too many people are aware of his Russian ties and that he probably knew he was a spoiler.

So no OP, he lost to Hillary in 2016 and he will lose again in 2020.

I agree, OP. I can't stand Sanders but I think he will be the nominee. My choice would have been Harris. Oh well.

Op, you’re a piece of shot, and so are you, “Canadian Sanders fans”. Sexist, Russian-backed pieces of shit. The DNC didn’t “back” Clinton - the DNC was fucking hacked on the orders of GRU operative Tad Devine, Sanders’ campaign manager. Clinton was excellent and she won. She beat a man whose supporters are currently posting puerile dinosaur and Gandalf memes on Facebook, Tumblr, wah wah wah; I mean that really is what this is about. A cult cannnot take dissent.

How fucking dare you twist John Lewis’s words to make it appear that Sanders was anything more than a lazy cos-play socialist writing rape essays? Even I as a non-politician have engaged more than Sanders has in terms of civil rights protests. FUCK you for YOUR lies. You’re tripe. Maybe not even that.

Ugly, propaganda-based thread by the OP, with an angle in mind. Whose angle?

Off to f&f and then block the fuckheads.

Bernie = Jeremy Corbyn

Biden is too old and I don't personally like him but he can beat Trump. The good will he earned aa VP will help him a lot.

Bernie can't win. He's a socialist who whines constantly about being a victim of the DNC and has crackpot fans who are out for revenge. He has a poor voting record WRT guns, tried to primary good Dem candidates for no real reason, and is constantly telling people that their sexuality and race don't matter.

Any good qualities he has will be outweighed by this negatives.

R72, Bernie does well with young independents and liberals in the Midwest, but not with registered Democrats or Republicans. It won't be enough to earn him many electoral votes from the Midwest.

Bernie will win Minnesota, Wisconsin, MIchigan and Illinois in the general election. Along with all the other traditionally Democratic states. what more does he need? It's not that people don't think he can win. It's that they don't want him to win.

Real question: What has Bernie Sanders achieved that makes his supporters so loyal? Please give an honest answer.

Liz Warren will split the Sanders voters.

He'll never get the nomination.

I voted for Bernie in the primaries and Hillary in the general. This time around, I'm supporting Liz Warren.

NY Times has a surprisingly pro-Sanders op-ed piece this AM by Jamelle "Babba" Bouie

[quote] But Sanders isn’t without an advantage. If in 2016 his foreign-policy thinking was underbaked, then in 2019 he stands as one of the few candidates with a fully formed vision for American foreign policy. It’s one that ties his domestic focus on political and economic justice to a larger project of international cooperation and solidarity, anti-authoritarianism and promotion of democratic values. It’s a vision that rests on the conviction that progressive politics must continue past the water’s edge.

Oh I don't think we're in that much denial.

Trump may win again, half the same stupidity may happen.

But Bernie winning the nomination? I think you're the one in denial.

Rip Van Winkel didn't even win in 2016, and now he's alienated half the democratic voters with the shit he and (mostly) his supporters pulled since then.

Bernie would be a disaster — as a nominee and as a president. And I echo R114: what has he accomplished?

For the good of our country I will vote for the democrat chosen as candidate but goddamn I hope it's not Bernie.

No, I genuinely believe he cannot win, for the reasons I stated already and more.

People on Twitter have been pushing the "people who hate Bernie don't actually have reasons" meme, including a few friends of mine, and I admit to being irritated. I don't care when trolls say it but when friends agree with the trolls, that's a problem.

Seems to me that you should listen to those explaining in good faith why they believe Bernie can't win if he gets the nom, instead of putting your head in the sand and pretending we're all just haters.

Bernie will pop his clogs on the campaign trail. Candidates only need to be ready to mop up his voters, if there are any.

No one has to go to Bernie's inauguration if they don't want to. People just need to stay out of the way.

Don't forget Bernie is putin's 2nd choice candidate.

So there's real support for Bernie online, but there's also troll frenzy. Also several of the polls that have come out have focused on the whitest states in the country.

Call me when the black voters accept his grifter ass.

I think we're more likely to get Biden, who I'm not a fan of either, but at least he doesn't have questionable ties to Russia so I'll sleep fine.

We need a woman in the White House

Yes, r124, like a submarine needs a screen door.

History is repeating itself. Trump will be one term and has been vilified like Nixon. Bernie will win and it will be the WORST 4 YEARS since Carter. Then the country will regain it's senses and elect a more moderate president like Reagan and all will be well. But those Bernie years will suck - total chaos.

If Sanders is the nominee, I will vote for Donald Trump.

I suspect R126 has it. I feel the same, despite me voting for Trump—-Sanders could win and it will be a disaster worse than Trump.

Thanks for your honesty, R127.

Trump will be one term, Sanders will be one term, then by 2024, the US will be back to normal. Both gone.

OK, OP. Say Bernie is the Dem nominee and wins somehow.

His far left of center ideas will greatly influence the next midterms, and historically speaking, he would lose the backing of Congress if Repubs take the House and keep the Senate.

Then it will be one investigation after another, just like what happened to Obama. Nothing will get done. The "Party of NO!" will be resurrected.

At least a Centrist would have a better shot at building bipartisan support in Congress on issues than Sanders.

People like R17 need to just die already. Ugh.

Does it not seem strange that the government officials of the so called progressive party are much older on average than those of the conservatives? Why do Democrats refuse to retire?

OP, I think YOU are in denial about Sanders.

He was a very viable candidate last time. But he has lost a big chunk of his support.

What he offered last election is now something that MANY of the candidates are offering in the new cycle.

I fear Dems will fuck it up, but whether they do or do not choose Sanders is really not at the core of that worry.

Why can't Bernie just be independent and leave the democratic party alone? I really don't understand. Why does he need the democrat nomination? Can someone explain?

In 2016 I thought to myself "Sanders is too much of an idealogue to actually govern. He's great at making speeches and has some good progressive ideas, but there's no way he could actually govern." So, like many, I held my nose and voted for Hillary in the primary.

But we've had 2 full years of someone who makes Sanders look like FDR and so now the idea of a President Bernie Sanders is not that scary, and, if anything, will seem like a massive improvement over Trump.

Although, for perspective, President Zac Efron would seem like a massive improvement over Trump.

In 2016 I thought to myself "Sanders is too much of an idealogue to actually govern. He's great at making speeches and has some good progressive ideas, but there's no way he could actually govern." So, like many, I held my nose and voted for Hillary in the primary.

But we've had 2 full years of someone who makes Sanders look like FDR and so now the idea of a President Bernie Sanders is not that scary, and, if anything, will seem like a massive improvement over Trump.

Although, for perspective, President Zac Efron would seem like a massive improvement over Trump.

Sorry for the double post-- first time an error message popped up saying "Could not create post" so I hit refresh and posted again

R126 'a more moderate president like Reagan.' Oh you mean the president that gutted the social safety net and slashed taxes for the wealthy, thereby creating the deficit monster that will haunt our grandchildren?

Karma demands a female in 2020

People forget his leadership skills suck. It was under his tenure as the chairman of the veteran's affairs when all the problems happened. He refused to recognize there was a problem, and by the time he did, it was an absolute mess.

[quote]Bernie will win Minnesota, Wisconsin, MIchigan and Illinois in the general election.

Oh, my sides....MY SIDES!!!!

[quote][R126] 'a more moderate president like Reagan.' Oh you mean the president that gutted the social safety net and slashed taxes for the wealthy, thereby creating the deficit monster that will haunt our grandchildren?

Yup, the same Reagan Elizabeth Warren VOTED FOR TWICE, and then voted for George H.W. Bush TWICE! I was supporting and voting for Democrats here in NYC while my friends were dropping DEAD of AIDS while our GOP presidents blocked their ears and pretended this epidemic and human calamity was God's gift to gays. No, I will NOT be voting for Elizabeth Warren. I owe my dead friends something.

[quote] He was a very viable candidate last time. But he has lost a big chunk of his support.

The money says otherwise.

[quote]a more moderate president like Reagan and all will be well.

I cannot believe some fucking jackass piece of shit hetero slithered his snail ass onto a gay board to spew this crap like nobody would notice.

Bernie is not going to win the nomination. If he does, I’ll vote for him—but I will also eat my shoe. Because there is no way he wins the nomination.

If he does, fine. Whatever.

Bernie Sanders is unelectable. And his wife should be in jail. Elizabeth Warren is a harridan.

Wake up. Joe Biden with a great V.P. pick is our best hope.

I'm not counting out Kamala. The Jussie bullshit will blow over. And there's Beto and my pick McCabe.

Eyes on the prize ladies and gentlemen.

& P.S. still love Bill Weld. Let's just see how this all shakes out.

I'm an older Millennial (38 this year) and I'm curious to see how my friends will react to Sanders this time out.

Last election there was a lot of "Oh good, at least I don't have to vote for Hillary!" in the air and Sanders and his ideas seemed fresh and new.

But he's got four years in the spotlight now and, more important, many of the younger candidates have very similar ideas. So I want to see how people I know who aren't all that political, but who fall for a candidate because of their "vibe" net out. Because unfortunately that is how many people vote--on vibe, on who they'd want to have a beer (or a kombucha) with, etc.

Bernie will also benefit from Hillary and the DNC not destroying him this time

Well he’s not a Dem.

Fuck him. If we’re lucky, he won’t survive till 2020.

Hillary and the DNC didn't destroy Bernie the last time.

The three million more Democrats who voted for Hillary in the primaries and Bernie's petulance destroyed Bernie.

Hopefully for all time.

Oops: the three point seven million more Democrats who voted for Hillary in the primaries...

[quote] I'm not saying anyone should vote for him

If he gets the nomination, they sure better put on their big boy/girl pants and vote for him. Republicans figured this out long ago, they fall in line, not necessarily in love.

And if he doesn't R152? Will the Bernie or Bust crew put theirs on?

Let's be real about what happened last time though.

The media kept telling everyone that there was no way Hillary could lose. Headlines like "80% chance Clinton gets elected"

She was exactly the sort of "hold your nose and vote for her" (as per Oprah) candidate that caused a lot of people to say "Fuck it then, I can't stand this woman, so long as there's no way Trump can win, I'm going to stay home/vote for Jill Stein/vote for Trump as a protest as a way to keep my conscience clear when she fucks up."

And enough people said that in states like Pennsylvania and Michigan that Trump eeked out a victory and here we are.

Has the election seemed close, I doubt many so-called "BernieBros" would have thought twice about voting for her. The ones I know understand there's a huge difference between her and Trump.

Point being, I don't think his troops will abandon the candidate this time out, should that Democrat prove to be Biden or Booker or Beto.

And what you say, r154, held true before the Comey announcement. But it was quite clear to everyone but the cult of Bernie that the Comey announcement put the campaign into real trouble. If anything, the Comey debacle caused the Cult of Bernie to double down and view it as affirmation of them being right about Hillary.

[quote]Point being, I don't think his troops will abandon the candidate this time out, should that Democrat prove to be Biden or Booker or Beto.

In other words, they would never vote for a woman. Nothing's changed then.

R154: How dare you bring nuance to this discussion. You must purge and kill Sanders and all his supporters! Do it now!

R156: Considering over 90% of his supporters voted for Hillary, you and every other PUMA are full of shit. Nothing has changed, indeed.

There are so many other candidates and I think most of them will have an edge over him with Democratic voters in general, although I don't know who it will come down to. Kamala would probably get most of the 2016 Hillary voters.

R157 I know a lot of Bernie people IRL. Some of them voted for Hillary in the general, but some of them were adamant Bernie or Bust, NeverHillary, Clinton News Network shriekers. Pretending that there isn't a vocally cultish part of his support bloc is just disingenuous.

[quote][R156]: Considering over 90% of his supporters voted for Hillary, you and every other PUMA are full of shit. Nothing has changed, indeed.

Funny you should bring up nuance and then throw around knee-jerk insults.

Some of you 'never Hillary' Sanders supporters never change, indeed. No decency in you then or now.

R157 Depending on where the other 10% of his voters (who voted - lots didn't) voted, it would have put her over the top had they been in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin.

Absolutely not, R143. If Sanders is it—forget it. No way. But he will win in 2020 but will lose in 2024. I’m not worried. Sanity will return in 2024. Just be patient.

He's too old

R153 I meant.

2024 is the year. No more kooky Republicans, kooky Democrats, no more of that awful AOC person and her kooky clique, no trans stuff, no Muslim stuff. Normalcy and centrism once again will prevail.

The country can't wait that long, R165.

R162, why do you think Bernie will win the nomination?

The country needs a sane, centrist president starting next year and that is whom they will vote for. Biden or Beto.

Or Biden/Beto. Either situation is fine with me.

Be patient R166. What’s five or six years? R167 is seems like it. But, it’ll just be four years. So don’t worry. He’ll be voted out. That AOC broad will be voted out in 2020. Slowly but surley all of those far-left kooks, anti-Semites, whatever they are will be voted out. Then finally Sanders will be voted out. That chapter can finally close.

[quote]What’s five or six years?

Well, it's a lot coming after four years of chaos. A reset button is needed in 2020.

LOL R157--I just threw out those three candidates because their names all started with "B" (like "Bernie") and one of the Cecils/Cecilias starts braying about misogyny. Given the tonality I really do think there are about 5 Cecils on the board, including the "Most Admired Woman In The World" poster.

And sorry R155, up to and on the day of the election, no one expected Trump to win. Including Trump himself. Hillary's chances were still being trumpted as being over 80%.

I guarantee you that if the press has said it was a close race, far more people would have turned out. The BernieOrBusters may have considered Hillary a shill, but I think all of them realized she was a better option than Trump. (At leas the few I know.)

2024 will be the reset. Next up is the Democrat kook after the Republican. Must be patient.

This is a good time to bring back R22.

Just for the humor value.

[quote] Sanders fans can't admit that he isn't perfect. [bold] Clinton fans have admitted her faults and have debated them time and time again. [/bold]

2020-2024 is gonna be trans, Muslimy stuff, all that—fatalities, shootings, immigration issues, nothing happening with UHC or free college—people will get sick of it and Sanders will be gone.

[quote]If Sanders is the nominee, I will vote for Donald Trump.

Me too. Trump is better than this ancient Communist.

@LosFelizDaycare

INCIDENT REPORT: Our Bernie Bros are creating Bernie-centric truffle macaroni art, murals, and effigies, and will not let their friends even mention the names of other Democratic candidates.

Even if Jah forbid Trump/Pence get reelected due to either foreign intervention/disinformation or just general Democrat fuck-uppery, there is no way they could survive a second term. We are likely to be in a recession by the time 2021 rolls around. I'd rather hang that on the GOP.

Let's see where we are by summer before writing anybody off just yet.

[quote]Or Biden/Beto. Either situation is fine with me.

Beto? WTF? He was a Representative for a few years. Absolutely not president material.

I've asked this question before: what has Bernie Sanders accomplished? Has he proven himself to be an effective legislator?

OMG God knows if Bernie Sanders will even be alive in 2 years--- LOTS will happen and we will have a good candidate!! All of this doomsday talk is like saying MARY over and over again.

Reparations? Apparently Harris, Gillibrand, and Warren want Trump to win, or the pandering is getting desperate. I thought Harris was smarter than that.

I'll go with the Starbucks guy if any of those three or Sanders gets the nomination.

R179 The short answer is "Nothing" and "No."

But the cult doesn't hear any criticism of their Dear Leader.

[quote]Beto? WTF? He was a Representative for a few years. Absolutely not president material.

Do you think he’s somehow incapable? Too stupid to surround himself with seasoned players and intelligent people? Have you ever heard him speak? Are you aware of his ability to electrify a crowd and get people—especially very young people—out to the polls?

I’m not actually interested in your response, so don’t bother.

Almost any Democrat is better than the malfeasant Trump and the corrupt, bootlicking GOP that enables him. I'll have no difficulty voting for Bernie if he's the party's nominee.

I would maybe have a hard time voting for Joe Manchin. But even he would be better than Trump.

Seriously, any Democrat is better. ANY of them.

Bernie is NOT a democrat. He will NOT be the democratic nominee. A democrat will be.

And Biden has run 3 times. There are reasons why he has never done well.

Bernie Sanders will make history as both the oldest and our nation's first Jewish American president.

[quote]Reparations? Apparently Harris, Gillibrand, and Warren want Trump to win, or the pandering is getting desperate.

Oh my. I didn’t realize Gillibrand had jumped on the reparations bandwagon along with the other two.

She didn’t stand a chance anyway, but now she’s just cemented her “failed” status, as have Warren and Harris.