Do Most of You Actually Like Being Called "Queer"?

I am not "queer." Nor am I "Q." I am gay.

No.

I have slimmer's disease, yes, but I am not and never will be 'queer'. EW.

I exclusively use "gay" for myself but people should be able to use "queer" if they want, especially if they feel empowered by doing so. Just as I feel empowered by using the word "gay".

However, this word is especially handy as an umbrella adjective for non-straight stuff, because "LGBTQIA+ cinema" doesn't quite have the same ring as "queer cinema" or "queer literature".

"queer cinema" or "queer literature" tell me nothing other than "here's a movie about someone who is not straight. That's not enough to draw me in. I want to know if it's about someone gay, i.e., another male appreciator of dong.

Not just the gay rags, the L.A. Times as well. I suppose the NYT. Is it AP approved now?

I fucking hate the word queer. I’m gay, not queer

Hell, no. Boarding school, military, family, etc...Terrible memories.

Never liked it, never will. It will always be derogatory to refer to homosexuality that way.

I don't "like" it, but it doesn't bother me overly much.

Before, it was an insult. Now, it's hopelessly vague. It's got nothing going for it.

No. "Queer" was term that was used by haters of gays when I was growing up.

It is "the Q word."

I am gay. Those who call themselves queer are Gen Z morons who don't know any better because they live on social media, or Millennial fuckwits who are really straight but want to be part of an intersectional group so they can feel like victims.

No. I am gay not queer. There is nothing wrong with me, why does anyone think a derogative word for broken is in any way a positive thing? Fuck off. I am gay.

I don't care. Words don't hurt me.

Words lead to actions. Actions do hurt me.

At 61, I am a stately old homo.

Newsflash: if you are gay, then you are also queer. It is an umbrella term that encompasses all. It is not a derogatory term. Hasn’t been for a decade now.

The hell it isn't, R18. You don't get to invalidate the inherently offensive nature of that word with your fallacious argument appealing to popularity. The N-word has also made a resurgence in hip-hop. Does that make it okay to throw it around wherever? No.

R18 Turquoise hair and his "umbrella." His name is Turr Kwazzz.

You sound old, R19. Come down to NYU and you’ll see that queer is now the most popular word and carries no negative connotation at all. Academia backs us up, as does the media and popular culture.

r21 = stupid generation Z-er who was raised on social media and doesn't know any better

Academia is who started all this shit back in the late '80s-early '90s.

Deconstruct this, bitch.

Doesn't bother me. I'm gay, queer, nelly, nancy, poof, who knew, whatever.

But I do like stately old homo.

[quote]Academia backs us up, as does the media and popular culture.

They should stick to teaching you SVA. And I'm not talking about the School of Visual Arts.

[quote]Do Most of You Actually Like Being Called "Queer"?

Gay men and women do not like to be called queer because that words is offensive or intends to erased the word gay as it is used today, but everyone else appears to be forcing that on us.

Hate the word.

The fact that academia backs it up night be the most self defeating reason I've ever heard. Few people outside of the humanities world care about what they approve of.

I hate the word in that context. I don't buy into the argument that you can "reclaim" words.

R23, actually, I would like to believe that my generation helped turn the tide in academia over the past five years with this subject. We are the most progressive generation ever, and by uniting everyone under the queer umbrella, we will make our cause stronger than it has ever been in history.

You can 100% reclaim words (this is proof).

Queer does NOT erase; it unites.

You will never unite with me, twisted sister @ r29. You go be as queer as you want. I'm not under your umbrella.

It's the trendy umbrella word. It's "inclusive." Fuck inclusive. I'm gay even though in some circles that's hate speech.

Queer doesn't unite anything. Being gay means you prefer sleeping with and loving your same sex, in this case men.

Queer means nothing, much like "nonbinary". They are labels for people who pretend to eschew labels.

This has been discussed on here many times, and 90% of the people say NO except for some screeching 19 year old poster who can't stop spewing how O-L-D we all are (I am in my 30s - ancient!) and how that's why we can't handle it. Most older millennials also do not like the word. They (we? I am possibly the oldest millennial) associate it with negative attributes. I still remember plenty of people using it as a pejorative - and many people still do. You're not "reclaiming" anything.

And don't blame academia. Lesbian and gay are the only two labels needed to do this research and be published in the major journals on topics affecting this population. No "queer" is needed. Perhaps there is research on them & what their problems are but nobody would fund it since it's not PC now & queer is "in" thanks to HuffPo and Tumblr. No peer reviewer is going to send back your manuscript for not using the word "queer" instead of G and L.

Queer doesn’t mean “nothing.” Queer includes non-binary people too.

Why are some of you fighting against unity?

Gay is used as a pejorative much more than queer. That is most assuredly a fact.

Who wants to unite with you, r34? Pas moi.

I taught a class on homosexuality and religion and was pressured to "Queer...something." I refused. Queer is the word I heard just before the brick hit me.

Why not reclaim "faggot" then, r34?

"However, this word is especially handy as an umbrella adjective for non-straight stuff"

Surely you jest. If "queer" means anything these days, it's "straight but just too very special to admit it."

What is the point of being called "queer"? What does it mean, specifically? ESPECIALLY if "nonbinary" is lumped in with it, which isn't a sexual preference, it's a gender-based label. Gender - like trans and nonbinary - have no place in a sex and love-based descriptor.

Queer is a nothing term that means nothing, except what r38 said, to those of us who think the word is stupid. Fuck faux "inclusivity".

It's reasoning like r34's that leads to idiots making suggestions like "we should get rid of Best Actor and Best Actress, because there should just be one category for all!"

I'm in my mid 50s and in the 80s the word "queer" was built up and somewhat empowering. Plus, it's generic enough to include anyone who likes it, so I'm all for it!

Right, on sistyr!

[quote] Plus, it's generic enough to include anyone who likes it...

In other words, it has no actual meaning. Might as well call yourself a potato.

Queer means strange or odd. Gay people are by default neither (okay, some are).

If queer just means "not straight", that makes even LESS sense when you consider queer includes someone who says they're "nonbinary" yet has an actual male biological sex and likes fucking girls, is actually straight, just too precious to call themselves that.

Just call yourself a fucking prima donna, because that's what you are.

[quote]Surely you jest. If "queer" means anything these days, it's "straight but just too very special to admit it."

A few months ago there was a NY Times article about a straight married couple who call themselves "queer." So special. Although they've never anything remotely queer they refuse to call their son "he" until he figures out which pronoun fits him/her/zyr.

Pity Tom Wolfe died before he could write about this modern radical chic.

I'm dreading the day someone refers to me casually as "queer". I'm a gay man. Period. It's not that deep or confusing.

Fucktard r34 doesn’t seem to mind forcing his own offensive labels on people. How do you feel about fucktard? I feel that’s the label most in unity with you. Fucktard-identified maybe? Fucktard Theory at the local community college?

[quote]Ivanka

cunt

No. I guess it's an age thing. When I was young, this was what they said to males they suspected of being gay before they shoved you into a locker. Of course, "fag" was another favourite of the knuckle-draggers. If you were female, it was usually "lezzie" or "lez." I went to clubs that were gay clubs. They welcomed men and women, although some nights were geared towards a specific sex. This is the term that I still prefer.

[quote]Queer doesn't unite anything. Being gay means you prefer sleeping with and loving your same sex, in this case men. Queer means nothing, much like "nonbinary". They are labels for people who pretend to eschew labels.

r32, whilst I agree with your point on the whole, gay is a synonym for homosexual, one who is exclusively sexually attracted to their own sex. A guy who is attracted to both sexes but merely prefers the same sex is still bisexual.

I only like it when this one straight married dude I hook up with says it to me when I'm sucking him off every once in a while. "Suck it, queer, take my cum" - so fucking hot. Seriously.

Why don't they just call us "faggots"? Same fucking thing, no more offensive than "queer".

All the trite little “queer is inclusive” cunts have never experienced hearing the word queer as the boot connects with your skull.

I prefer being called "eccentric."

All the bubba's in the deep south will be happy they can now use it openly. Oh wait they already do.

I prefer being called a "homosexualist"!

Gay here too. And Gay and Lesbian only not GLBTQXYZ or anything else. You are either gay or lesbian or Straight.

Growing up, it was a stinging insult. So I don't like the word. I'm a gay man. It was hard enough for me to even tell me I was that (I'm old). If you prefer the word, I won't try to argue with you. But I'd appreciate if you didn't use it to refer to me.

No I hate the word & refuse to have anything to do with it.

I stopped going to the Huff. Post when they started using the Q word.

I could barely watch Q. Eye For The S. Guy due to it but I was desperate for gay visibility.

Thankfully over a decade & half later I no longer have to settle for Q named shows.

I refused to watch Q. As Folk due to the title & won't watch the reboot either simply for the name.

Blacks, Jews, Women don't have to put up with N*gger, K*ke & B*tch in their programming/pop culture so why do we put up with a slur?

Some LGBTs say they're taking back the word but who the Hell wanted it to begin with? Not me. I heard it enough in school from K-8 & so I had to switch to a private school where I heard it from 9-12. Enough is enough. I never want to hear the awful word again.

Agree with many of R59's points. Historically, the Q word was extremely derogatory, in a similar category as the N word. Making either one trendy or popular is very disrespectful and a pathetic attempt to erase the past or at least downplay the significance of past transgressions. Let's move forward and learn from the past, but don't pretend it didn't happen.

How about we use the term “those fucking queers?” That was the common usage of the word when I was growing up.

Yes, we know. Everyone over 40 hates this word, the millennials love it.

At least, I think that's what the other 876,753,194 threads on this topic said.

I'm a gay man. Only other thing I liked being called was a bear but now it's more wolf.

I don't mind being called [italic]queer[/italic] nearly as much as being referred to as "most of you." (Is there [italic]another[/italic] part of me that you would like to ask?)

R62 - yes this has been discussed to death. The only thing I'd say is that only certain millennials really use it or like it. Most know it really just refers to blue haired obese weirdos with thick rimmed glasses. It's pushed by gay people who have way too much control over things with platforms in very liberal spheres, unfortunately (huffpo editors, LGBT school club presidents, tumblr aficionados).

The same people obsessed with the word Queer are the same people who are pronoun police and sign their emails with what pronoun they identify with. And if you openly express your irritation with them, you're labeled as intolerant, so they do it more & more.

Queer is the current progressive trend aiming for equality for all: Gays, Lesbians, Bis, Transgenders, and their allies.

Who does not want equality for all? Conservatives who hold on to a superior vs. inferior status quo with their "get off my lawn!" trolling and hissing.

Queers, dykes, fairies, faggots .... These labels do sting for a lot of people but there is something empowering in repurposing them. It seems like people should be able to call themselves what they want, but there is a need for shorthand hence "queer" and "LGBTQIA+". Just like any other group of people there is a cool diversity in perspectives and the titles we take on. Queer doesn't bother me but fag does ... kinda silly because "faggotry" sounds very refined!

[quote]Gay is used as a pejorative much more than queer. That is most assuredly a fact.

I'm going to guess that R34, and so many others in his millennial generation, heard "that's so gay" or "GAYYYYY" time and time again from his peers growing up. Which is why they want to move from that word to the generic, all-encompassing 'queer' label, which is "inclusive" of everyone, including confused non-binaries and attention whoring straight people like Nico Tortellini and his wife.

When you let others know that certain words hurt you, you basically give trolls and haters a manual which buttons to push. Smart thinking by those easily wounded by the word queer.

Queer includes gay allies. For example gays on their own can't keep a gay TV show on air or make a movie commercially successful. Of course the haters and the trolls want to alienate the gays from their allies. Divide & Conquer.

Apparently, I'm called a "hobo."

"Hate the word. The fact that academia backs it up night be the most self defeating reason I've ever heard."

Well of course Academics LOVE having an umbrella term they can use, because they live in a hellish environment where they're surrounded by people who are looking for a chance to attack anyone who fails to be as inclusive as humanly possible. Where a classroom or business meeting can literally be disrupted by someone demanding you be fired for failing to include the second "T" in LGBTQXYZ, the one that stands for "Two-Spirited".

Easier to say "queer" than remember the latest alphabet soup.

I am reclaiming the term HOMOSEXUAL. I am a BIOLOGICALLY MALE member of a minority that EXCLUSIVELY desires SEX and /or ROMANCE or both with human beings that have the same, SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN, biological sex and all physical traits that reflect that biological reality. In no way shape or form do I have any erotic or romantic interest in beings that have or HAVE had vaginas, uteri, breasts, vulvas, ovaries,. clitorises and that have two XX chromosones.

I am not "queer", I am not a member of a identity group that has members that exhibit ANY sexual or romantic attraction to human females WHATSOEVER. I am NOT in the same classification as XX females and XY males who enjoy ANY sexual or romantic interaction with each other.

Being exclusively homosexual is my LIVED EXPERIENCE, my identity and any attempt to deviate me from that course into an opposite sex sexual or romantic relationship is RAPE CULTURE. OK, I'm being satirical in that part but that's what the "queers" would say.

"Queer" is a another word for "homosexual conversion therapy" and "homosexual genocide" Stalin, Hitler or Fred Phelps couldn't have come up with a better way of ridding the planet of what they thought was the scourge of homosexual sex, desire and acceptance.

"queer" is poison, and has been 'reclaimed' by people and groups that never had it hurled at them as a slur in the first place. I've said it here before, it would be like if latinos 'reclaimed' the n word. Obviously nonsense and actually insulting to those of us (predominately gay men, also lesbians) who actually have had it pejoratively thrown at us.

Also, perhaps the worst thing about "queer" is that ALMOST ALL of the people I know or hear about using it as a self-describing term... are HETEROSEXUAL! Pink hair = kweer! Numerous piercings = kweer! BDSM = kweer kink! Whenever the situation allows for it (when I'm not going to be making a huge scene) I call it out. "Please don't call me queer," I say, "that's what my father yelled before he kicked me out and that's the last thing I heard before my first gay bashing" (I have been bashed only once but I phrase it like this anyway... sue me).

I HATE it, and sadly too many people my age lap it up (I'm 30).

Gonna make this REAL easy. If it ain't BORN with the potential to look like this NATURALLY ---I ain't INTERESTED.

I dismiss anyone who basically calls the Queer Community a cult where you have to abandon your own sexual identity. Like, bitch are you for real? Stop projecting the GOP doctrine on everything else.

It is to gay men over a certin age what nigger is to Black people.

Dear stupid people pushing this. Start tlistening to other people than your friends and figure out youre offtending a lot of people by pushing this crap. It’s a guaranteed punch in the face if you call me this.

r78's comment is pure poetry.

[quote]I dismiss anyone who basically calls the Queer Community a cult where you have to abandon your own sexual identity.

Then fucking DIS-MISS me bitch. It's no coincidence that LGBT "queers" and Abrahamic religious fundamentalists see eye to eye on getting as many gender role expectation non-conforming kids on hormones and into ORs as soon as possible. So drop the "reinforcing GOP orthodoxy" canard. This queer shit benefits both the far right AND the far left.

"Queer" = homosexual shaming and conversion therapy. Same bullshit different NAME.

[quote] Then fucking DIS-MISS me bitch.

Done.

Queer Nation

We’re here. We’re queer. Get used to it.

How is this new?

[quote] It is to gay men over a certin age what nigger is to Black people.

You’re a fucking idiot.

r82. It isn't. It's just trolls trying to insult people's intelligence. They think if they repeat stupid shit often and loud enough others will believe it in the end.

I'm in my 20's so I don't really have a bad association with the word "queer", but I don't like vague umbrella terms because I feel like they lead to erasure. "People of Color" is another popular vague term that I actually hate because being Middle Eastern, I don't relate to an Asian person for example just because we're both not of European descent so why should I be grouped with them.

People who can't "relate" to other human beings are sociopaths. Only sociopaths think that caring for others means you erase your own identity.

I’m not a fan of queer. It’s right up there with fag. But “queer” is fashionable right now. In a couple of years, it’ll be something else — maybe nelly.

I have no feeling about it one way or the other.

Drop the T and the Q!!

Almost as much as I like being called "faggot."

SJWs are ruining everything. They are destroying lgb and the Democratic Party

Hate it. Do not call me queer. Some people are just really stupid if they don't know that it's just like be called a faggot. I am gay, and that's all that is okay to refer to me as.

^^ has stated her boundaries

If we own the word, it has zero power in the hands of haters.

R94, read the fucking thread. There are dozens of replies above showing that the word still has the power to hurt, for all your attempts to reclaim it.

[quote]There are dozens of replies above showing that the word still has the power to hurt

Time to grow a pair.

R94 might try owning some common sense.

Agreed R95 & R97.

I also want to know when Hollywood is going to produce shows like N*gger Eye For The White Guy, K*ke Eye For The Non-Jewish Guy, Bitchy Eye For The Hetero Guy, N*gger As Folk, K*ke As Folk, B*itchy As Folk, etc. These other groups aren't trying to take their horrible words on. They're moving on from them (which we should have the same equal right to do).

R96 Why does the sexual minority community have to grow a pair but racial or religious minorities don't have to grow a pair with n*gger, k*ke, w*tback, etc.

r98 sounds about white. THREAD CLOSED.

I'm gay, not a queer.

As an eldergay I find the term "Queer" unacceptable after the history I experienced with the word in the 60's and 70's. IT was used the same way as "faggot" was and is used today. The millennials and Gen Z can call themselves WTF ever they want though, just don't use it on me. I wonder if older African American parents have the same feeling with the pervasive use of the N word by the younger generation given the negative experiences they had with the N word back in the day. Any DL African Americans care to share?

r94 I'd be willing to entertain "reclaiming" and "owning" the word queer if it were being reclaimed by just the people it's been hurled at, predominately gay men, and also lesbians. But it's not US owning the word, it's the whole damn TBGLQIA2S++ acronym, and it's especially HETEROSEXUALS. Any label that purports to include the gay community that also includes heterosexuals is fucking useless. The more I hear and read "queer" propagated, the more I insist on gay/homosexual as the label that defines me.

And mark my words, it won't be long before the heteros start coming for gay. In "mlm" tumblr it's already happening.

I was a member of Queer Nation NY from the beginning. Taking back a derogatory word directed at gay men and lesbians is something that I do feel strongly about. I've often wondered why that hasn't happened with the 'N' word but I imagine that some white academics have decided it's not the same situation. For me it was about changing the impact of the word itself. I don't call myself queer, I call myself gay. I'm not even sure what Queer is and how it's not already covered by LGBT.

[quote]Queer NationWe’re here. We’re queer. Get used to it.How is this new?

BECAUSE, at the time queer meant "faggot" or "dyke". And that meant there was no heterosexual norm you could easily default back to if shit started to get too real.

Now, it means THIS:

.[quote]The more I hear and read "queer" propagated, the more I insist on gay/homosexual as the label that defines me.

When I first saw that comment I thought for a moment it read "propaganda" instead of "propagated". Then I reaiized "propaganda" works just fine, too.

r104 This article is all this thread needs. Exactly why queer is now meaningless nonsense, in addition to being a slur.

Here's the writer of that embarrassing mess:

"Lesbian" or "gay woman" are the terms I'm comfortable with.

Back in the days of life-or-death AIDS activism, when it was gay men themselves shouting it in the streets, the use of the word "queer" made sense to me. But the insufferable gender-specials and straight people (see R104's jaw-dropping article for an example) who have decided to co-opt that word are making a mockery of our history and culture. When I'm around those types, the word I prefer for myself is the ultra-precise "homosexual."

I'm a millennial and I hate the term "queer". People keep trying to unite groups of people who don't understand one another. In my opinion, queer is similar to "POC". I'm gay and black. I'm not a queer POC. I also kind of dislike LGBTQ for similar reasons---WE ARE NOT THE SAME.

R32. You are so right. This new generation likes to think it beings people together and rejects labels, but 8n fact it adds more labels and 9ften stupidly unnecessary ones. LGBTQI are? The q is for "queer or "questioning"? Is that really a sexual identity? It's like the student union somewhere has taken over the gay rights movement. I am a 40 year old gay man and am all for being united but by creating ridiculous new letters that stand for nothing really, we are further making ourselves look silly to the mainstream. I will never call myself LGBTQI I can barely say it. No doubt more letters will be added.

"Queer" really means:

A straight white middle-class person who doesn't think that being straight, white, and middle-class is cool.

R109 here. I also think that the Trans movement should be by itself. Nothing against them but gender is not sexuality l. I'm sorry but that's the truth. Why are they lumped in with us, especially when they seem to dislike gay people. Just a question.

R111, the trans used to have a lot more in common with the gay, as back in the day a lot of transsexuals started out as femme gay boys or butch ladies. But now the Autogynephiles and cross-dressers have taken control of the trans movement, and they've got nothing in common with us. In fact they're proving to be a real danger, as they're trying to re-define lesbianism to include straight men who love pretty dresses and girl-girl porn!

Which is tough for the truetrans types with whom we have a lot in common, but we can't let them re-define homosexuality to suit themselves.

R112 you are right . It's strange cause I have never met a trans person in the scene in London. I have no idea what they think or want.

I agree with you, R111, that sexual orientation and gender identity are completely different concepts, and that we're confusing our would-be allies (not the trendy ones, but the real ones who live and work outside of academic bubbles) by pushing them together under the category "queer."

And R112 is right that, back when T meant "really, REALLY feminine gay man/butch lesbian who has decided to pass full-time," it made vastly more sense to have those concerns represented by gay activist groups. Now, however, the T means something else.

I really hate the word and know I'm not alone in that.

It's used in to mean 'anything non-mainstream or a bit weird'. Yes if I go to some 'queer cinema' festival I might get to see a gay film but I've no interest in seeing some film about kids with blue hair.

It's still a slur word as far as I'm concerned and still wince whenever I see or hear it. I don't care that kids are using the word to show how "woke" they are not to use labels. I'm gay and have an interest in gay things and it'd be a lot more useful for the word 'gay' to be used to describe things.

It's like being called "nigga," which many people claim now means "dude." Not everyone is okay with that justification.

[quote]sexual orientation and gender identity are completely different concepts

I understand what you're saying but let's not forget that statistically speaking 97% of people identify as heterosexual males and females whose chosen gender presentation matches the norm for their biological sex. That's an indication that gender roles, sexual orientation and bio sex may have SOME biological contribution, at least. Of course, we don't know what those same people would say if all stigmas relating to stereotypical sex role expectations were removed but GOD KNOWS no straight person(ESPECIALLY men) ever misrepresented their TRUE feelings about those issues in a sociological survey.

What I meant to say is that science has demonstrated that the RELATION between bio sex, sexual orientation and typical gender presentation has SOME biological component and is not JUST socially constructed.

R118 what are you talking about? Dobpeople "choose" their gender roles? Im confused

Queer? Used to bother me, Pansy (my dad's go-to), Sissy. Faggot. I knew what one was the first time I was called one because i already was one. Drove me to tears and badly-overacted heterosexual braggadocio when I was young, realized it was probably my own internalized homophobia when I got old. Decided to begin declaring myself as a Godless Sodomite and reclaiming that one instead. Mischevious Polesmoker also ok

and yes I'm serious.

r111 One fight at a time.

Love it, Call me queer u darlings.

Agreed, R122. I'm sympathetic to those concerns, but this thread is about the specific problem of gays being pressured by non-gay hangers-on to call them, and ourselves, "queer." We'll have a more fruitful conversation if we stay on topic.

It seems to me that the most powerful thing we can do is to quietly opt out of all things "queer." Currently, the people at R104 are borrowing their legitimacy from us. But if we just get up and walk away, taking our history and our culture along with us, what are they left with?

In the 80's and 90's as a rural/suburban gay I found a queer community before I found a gay community. Moved to NYC and found community in the queercore scene of Squeezebox and the Rock N Roll Fag Bar. I still feel affinity and identity to the work, even though everyone just thinks of me as an old gay nowadays.

LOL at these trolls. Us gays are not even close to equality and yet the trolls think they can derail us into acting like bigoted conservatives picking on minorities like the Trans Community using the same talking points the bigots used on gays. And then it's "Look at these gays how they treat their own! Hey so called gay allies, you really support these gays who turn on others in gay heartbeat?".

Queer is very now. There is no shame to live in the past and hold on to your basic gay, traditional values. But don't complain if you're left behind.

But that's what all these trolls are doing: Complain about no longer being in charge and control using the old fashioned divide between the old and the new generation.

All these "back in my days ...!" and "get off my lawn" grumpiness comes down to one single contribution it can provide: Hisssssssssssss! It's almost as helpful and constructive as "Thoughts & Prayers".

R125, that was one of the more thoughtful comments we've had on this thread. On the West Coast, I remember "queercore" being heavily gay/lesbian (e.g., Team Dresch). Are you saying that it was less gay in NYC?

[quote]Queer is very now.

R127, the thing is, gay people don't care what's in style among the straights. We've always gone our own way.

R129 it's amazing isn't it? It's like we have to agree with then or "were left behind" sounds like bullying ie "if you don't join us you're against us"

Left behind isn't being against us, but nice try.

I would think that the elders who actually heard queer as an insult growing up would be the ones most eager to reclaim it. They now can shift the power imbalance back as the word has lost its negative meaning and will only be a force to empower queer people moving forward.

This is a chance to fix those childhood memories. Take away the pain. The word is now yours to use to bring strength and unity to our community. It’s like, rejoice, so why are you still scowling?

R128, the scene was gay and lesbian, but also just punk, and drag, and trans, and in the rural/suburban world also very minority and artsy.

[quote] gay people don't care what's in style among the straights.

Sure, sure. That's why we fight for gay equality within the gay community and let the straights keep treating us like inferiors.

Look, these eldergays who shriek about being wounded by the word queer don't exist. These comments are by Divide and Conquer trolls pretending to be eldergays trying a "Us vs. Millennials" fight.

The term Queer has always been part of the Gay Community's history and gay rights history.

R135 Oh fuck off. I'm technically a millennial and I don't want to hear or see the word. It doesn't represent me. I'm a gay man. You can use it for some vague term to encompass all that is "other" but it's not a word I'm ever going to use to describe myself or my homosexuality.

R135 must be pretty threatened by the discussion on this thread, because 6 of the last 10 posts are his/hers/zirs.

It's poor form to post incessantly, R135, without letting others get a word in edgewise.

[quote] I'm technically a millennial and I don't want to hear or see the word. It doesn't represent me. I'm a gay man.

[quote] It's poor form to post incessantly, [R135], without letting others get a word in edgewise.

You're funny. You think you have somthing of value to contribute? Go on, impress me.

Still waiting to be impressed by r137. But any other troll would do at this point.

I'm gay, OP. Actually, I'm homosexual, i.e., a male sexually and romantically attracted to other males. Gay has come to mean a whole laundry list of political and cultural shit that has nothing to do with liking the D, but it's shorter to say and I'm lazy so I use it.

"Queer" to me conjures up a picture of a fat straight girl with pink hair and the usual tats and piercings who wants in on the oppression bandwagon so voila, she's "Queer," a catchall word that means anything and nothing.

I grew up in a time when being called gay was a form of teasing by bullies, and being called queer was an even worse insult. So, no, I don't care for the term queer still today because it holds the association of being bullied as a kid. To me, calling someone queer is like using the term "retarded" for someone who has an intellectual disability.

For people who typically resist being labeled and classified, we certainly put a lot of them on ourselves sometimes, don't we?

As USUAL the arrogant youth dismiss the feelings and concerns of older people with mockery and derision while at the same time whining about their emotions and hurt feelings and demanding ultimate respect and acceptance of their ideas and experiences.

Fucking fraud ass, ageist hypocrites.

Lest any "queer" forget:

Homosexual men demand THIS:

Not THIS:

[quote]It's like being called "nigga," which many people claim now means "dude."

Then it should have its own creative phonetic spelling, too: "kweer," giving us LGBTK.

R143, you are wrong. The feelings of the older generation are considered. Taking back queer sets the record straight that decades of bullying with the word has been made right as we proudly self-identify as queer.

Maybe one day a future generation will reclaim gay for us the way we have reclaimed queer today- and more power to them!

r147's mother probably smoked while she was pregnant with her. (I refuse to believe r147 is male.)

We used to play "Smear the Queer" in third grade back in 1972. Everyone would try to tackle the "queer" who was carrying the football. That being said, I'm older and wiser. Queer is offensive to me.

I am made, R148.

And 1972 is a long time ago, R149. Things have changed a lot now. Queer is no longer offensive. That’s so gay is said now instead of smear the queer. You need to listen to what we’re saying.

R29, this notion of "queer" uniting everyone under one umbrella is ridiculous. Your generation's attempt/desire to crowd all this LGBTQIA nonsense into one happy clump has only accomplished division, with a few of those sub-genres of people wanting to decide who is included, how they're described & alter the history of the trail many of us have forged before them. It's so ironic that this group of people who wants to be recognized in such general, non-descriptive terms wants to decide what specific terms everyone else will be known as.

Queer will never have a positive inclination, never. Exactly like black folks using the n-word while claiming defiance from what the word actually indicates, using it only justifies those who use it with it's originally indented hate with much more ease & comfort...because, hey "if they can say it..." Wanting to refer to one's self such with words is reductive & plain ignorant of history & lacks self-respect & insight.

I’m gay and also queer. Gay because I’m a man attracted to other men, queer because I express solidarity with all LGBTQ people. We must stand together against our common enemies.

No. Queer is a slur. Only non-gays call themselves queer.

Don’t call me queer.

Don’t call me cis.

If I have to respect a hulking dudes pronouns, you have to respect my choice to NOT be called queer.

r152, totally agree. Queer is about standing up to the conservatives who try to push against minorities and use them as distractions and scapegoats to distract the masses from their own criminal activities and hypocrisy.

R15 so you’re ok with “misgendering”

Fuck off r18 for trying to persuade gays to mindlessly accept being called a slur.

R29, you are mistaken.

Yours is the most REGRESSIVE generation.

Then let’s reclaim gay, r34. That’s how we fight homophobia.

[quote] If I have to respect a hulking dudes pronouns, you have to respect my choice to NOT be called queer.

Who exactly denies you that right to identify yourself the way you want? The voices in your head? Queers let you pick your own fucking pronouns and sexual identity. You can identify as gay, straight, bi, transgender and even go non-gender conforming. And here you whine about them not accepting your choice for yourself? Have even met a single queer in person? I highly doubt that.

Sorry, have YOU even met a single queer in person?

R82, the gay community was desperate during the aids plague. Stop appropriating.

R96 tell that to the trannies who scream “literal violence” at being “misgendered.”

R154 so it has nothing to do with homosexuals...thank your for making our point.

R159, I don’t want to be called queer. Please respect my choice.

If I have to call Bruce Jenner a woman to respect his feelings, then you must not call me queer. If you do, you are disrespecting me, my feelings & my choice.

I’m not queer. End of story. Anyone who calls me such is insulting me. You can’t persuade me to being called a slur against my will.

I always have to laugh at these trolls who post pictures of queers and act like bigots who point and laugh at these freaks like anti gay bigots still do with pictures of guys dancing shirtless at circuit parties or guys who do drag or guys who wear leather like at Folsom Fair.

Yeah, trolls trolling. Sure, laugh at the so called freaks.

Of course you would doubt that r159 — you’re an idiot.

[R159], I don’t want to be called queer. Please respect my choice.

Again: Who doesn't respect your choice? You can make your own choice as much as others can make their own choices. They can't force you to choose something you don't want and you can't force others to make choices they don't want.

You identify as gay? Great.

[quote] If I have to call Bruce Jenner a woman to respect his feelings, then you must not call me queer. If you do, you are disrespecting me, my feelings & my choice.

Every single time I meet someone new who is queer the first question is how I indentify myself and it is being done to treat me with respect in this, and future, conversations. I myself identify as gay and I am treated with respect by any queer person I meet. That is my personal experience. I give respect and I receive respect and that is happening in real life situations.

[quote] [R154] so it has nothing to do with homosexuals...thank your for making our point.

So, your point is that homosexuals are not being discriminated against anymore? That they don't share the same enemies like the transgenders, the Liberals, the queers?

Good to know YOUR point.

[quote]You identify as gay? Great.

No. I identify as HOMOSEXUAL. A biological male or female attracted EXCLUSIVELY to the same bio sex.

I'm increasingly and LOUDLY being told this is NOT "great".

There's a big difference in someone calling you a queer out of anger, "Hey, fuck you queer", and the term being used in familiar company between other gay people, "so, what us queers gonna do tonight?".

So no, if used in a familiar way I have absolutely no problem with it.

Lesbians in SF called themselves just that and were greeted with art exhibits featuring axes, baseball bats wrapped in barbed wire and bloody t shirts depicting violent fantasies against women who dare to assert their exclusive homosexuality.

Again, not "GREAT".

R167, I don’t identify as gay. I am gay.

Stop using the word queer. Or I will use male pronouns for trannies.

R169, trannies are my enemy.

Are lesbians not homosexual?

The liberals want lesbians to suck tranny cock. So fuck em.

R171, the homophobic left are replacing gay with queer. See HuffPost’s “queer” section.

r174, Again, good to know your point. Makes it so much easier for me to dismiss you, because we don't share the same values and opinions.

If you agree with lesbians being coerced to suck tranny cock, then no, we do not share the same values.

[quote]Makes it so much easier for me to dismiss you, because we don't share the same values and opinions.

Omygod--you are TOO funny----you sound JUST like my ex Christian friends and family members when I told them I was gay.

R178, did your ex Christian friends recommend gay conversion therapy to you?

Like chopping off your healthy sex organs & having cosmetic surgery down there to mimic the appearance of your opposite reproductive system?

Or making you take expensive chemicals to mimic the characteristics of your opposite sex?

Do they condone doing all that to make a gay into a straight?

Jazz’s homophobic parents would rather have a trans daughter than a gay son.

So their gay sons only romantic options are now tranny chasers.

Muriel, may we please have some fresh FFs? We need them for the likes of r150 r152 r154.

So, r176, you think lesbians should suck dicks because trans women have dicks?

WW r181 & r182

[quote] Omygod--you are TOO funny----you sound JUST like my ex Christian friends and family members when I told them I was gay.

So, your bitterness towards queers is based on your regret of coming out and not finding that support system you wanted for yourself in your family and friends? That's unfortunate, but sorry, that's not the queers' fault.

Thank you, r183.

[quote]r95 There are dozens of replies above showing that the word still has the power to hurt,

Why do they all sound like they're by the same person, tho?

So, r184, homophobia is unfortunate but not the queer community’s problem. Ok.

I have a question for you.

So...since rape has existed forever, should it just be decriminalized?

[quote]r132 The word is now yours to use to bring strength and unity to our community. It’s like, rejoice, so why are you still scowling?

r186, This.

JHFC, nobody is forcing anyone to embrace the word. I can be offended when people use it in a hateful way AND use it myself in an empowering way. You don't like it, don't use it.

I don't understand how anyone can feel "empowered" by using a derogatory term for themselves.

^^ Well, I guess you have life lessons before you, gurl.

What don’t you understand, R191. We have drained the former derogatory connotation from the word queer. It is no longer a slur. That is in the past.

Decades ago the bullies had the power, but today we control the word. We have the power. We wield the word to unify and not divide. That’s what reclamation is. The word can no longer harm.

Stop calling it a derogatory term. Stop calling it a slur. It has been reclaimed.

The point is that nobody HAS to define as queer or join the queer community or even has to say the word if it upsets him or her. We literally have freedom of choice (how to define ourselves), but the trolls insist that queers (aka. Millennials) intend to erase gays (aka eldergays).

R193 who is “we”....? The deplorables?

So why not just call trannies trannies? Why prosecute people for misgendering? If people can identify as a different gender everyday then why does it even exist? It’s meaningless.

[quote]We have drained the former derogatory connotation from the word queer.

No, you haven't, you deluded queer.

[quote]It is no longer a slur.

Yes, it is, you dongless queer.

[quote]That is in the past.

If only, you divisive queer.

[quote]We wield the word to unify and not divide.

Yeah, you're doing all sorts of unifying in this thread, turdpocket.

R193 I've already told you what I don't understand and your faux naïveté isn't fooling anyone.

Don't talk shit about that word being reclaimed 'decades' ago. I'm in my 30s. You kids can pretend you're cool by using the word but don't try to tell the rest of us what we should believe or say.

I am a bottom and most tops just grab my ass or bitchtits and call me a faggot, punk, buttboy, fuckpig, spermtank etc. I have three different sets of buttbabies incubating in my mangash right now.

I am gay. Hate to be called queer...too many memories of that slur slung at me by bullies and other assorted bigots.

I wonder if r132 can return her brain. Or is it the hair dye that's ruined her critical thinking skills.

Well, that was it for FFs. Mine were renewed ten minutes ago, and I've already given them out. All in this thread. Back to zero.

There is this myth that all LGBTQ people share the same enemies. I disagree. Same-sex marriage and gay culture is becoming mainstream--even many conservatives voted for same-sex marriage. However, I believe transgenderism is being weaponized against homosexuals. Some religious communities force gay men to have gender reassignment surgery merely because they can't wrap their minds around same-sex relationships.

Trannies are notoriously homophobic & misogynist.

this is an attempt by academia to equate homosexuality with transgenderism. the term queer will have extremely negative connotations specially in foreign countries where english is not spoken and american gay culture and history is totally unknown.

Absolutely not! And who the hell sits on the LGBTQ Board of Directors that thinks it’s OK to make decisions for the rest of us? Like forgiving Kevin Hart.....(Ellen)

No.

Unlike "gay", "queer" still maintains too much of its original meaning (strange, odd) and so few people, gay or straight are actually comfortable using it, and whenever someone introduces themselves as "queer" it's almost always a sign that you should leave the conversation or the room.

And there you have it at r207.

He doesn't approve of the word queer so nobody else should use it and that's the end of it.

But, of course, according to the trolls it's the queers who tell the gays to shut the fuck up.

The word DOES NOT have negative connotations from the parties the OP described using it.

So let the doctor patch you up and then get over yourself, gramps!

"Queer is very now."

So are the chills I get when I hear that hateful word. Why do we have to defend ourselves? Why do other outlier groups get to choose what word they want to use to describe themselves, but homosexuals don't?

Could it be some sort of homophobia?

I am a gay male and the only words I use to describe myself is gay and on rare occasion homosexual. I do think making too big a deal over the use of a word gives too much power to the bigots, they don't care if you don't like it or are offended. I have always admired the gay community for embracing the negative words used to describe us and taking away bigots power.

A mistake I think the black community makes over the use of the N word, but that is their community and they are entitled to take their own path, not my place to tell them what to be offended by, I just think they give a lot of power to that word. Either way I would never use it.

Rappers using the N word doesn't "take away its power." It just fouls the air with a foul word.

And god forbid a white rap fan tries to rap along with his favorite track.

[quote] "Queer is very now."

[quote] So are the chills I get when I hear that hateful word. Why do we have to defend ourselves?

Because you let yourself get triggered by a word which has a completely different meaning to those who use it in general in the LGBT Community. You don't want to humor them and they don't want to humor you. So to spite them you go around and ask people NOT to push your button and the world is full of anti gay assholes who love nothing more than to push your button and are very grateful for you to tell them which button to push.

R214- You sound very young, very inexperienced, very callow. So on top of your homophobia lies a healthy dollop of ageism. You also sound very proud.

As my grandma used to say, you have a long row to hoe.

R214 how about you just stop using a slur when people tell you they don’t like it?

Yes, queer is very now. Like many of the SJW lesbians on Instagram, who will lesbians until a few years from now until they decide they want the big party after all and it was just a phase. A drunken and awkward photo with your tongue on some woman's breast does not make you "queer." In no way can that person relate to the childhood bullying or family rejection that some posters described.

It's interesting how any other minority group says they don't like the use of a word its use ceases immediately yet when gays do so we're told we're wrong.

“Queer” is the slur, said with a sneer, when you’re being taunted as a young gay in a small conservative town — or even if you’re an older gay man, in a city.

It’s an awful word that should only be used to describe things that are “odd”, not homosexuals. And as a catch-all for sexual minorities, it’s pretty useless.

It would be like if academics and “woke” blacks just decided —without polling the population—that all non-white people shall heretofore be known as “n I g g e r s”.

There’s literally no difference between that dreaded, prohibited word, and “queer”.

Fuck the academics and activists and media types for forcing that word on us. And fuck all gays who go along with it.

I am a queer gay man. Gay men ARE queer. It is not an outside group “forcing” a word on us. We are the ones who reclaimed it after all and stopped it from being a slur.

An outside group can’t reclaim a word on behalf of a group. The group must be the one to actively reclaim it and we have.

R220 How stupid are you? Have you not read any of the replies in this thread?

A lot of gay men have no wish to 'reclaim' that word or have it describe us because, despite what you have decided to believe, we still dislike the word and don't want another word to describe us. You can use it to describe yourself all you like but you're being wilfully stupid if you refuse to see we're not all happy about it and refuse to accept it.

[quote]Queer includes gay allies. For example gays on their own can't keep a gay TV show on air or make a movie commercially successful.

“Queer” includes gay allies?

Fuck off and die, idiot.

R220, you’re another fucking idiot. And I’m guess you were born no earlier than the late 80s.

I was born in 92. And I am not an idiot.

You’ll be thanking my generation when we bring an end to homophobia in our lifetime.

R221, queer has already been reclaimed. Past tense. We own now. Both you and me. I hope in time you will realize this is a good thing. You can’t stop the march of progress and change. That is a good thing btw.

Muriel, some more FFs, please. r224 and r220 are SCREAMING for them

[quote]I was born in 92.

Of course. How did I know?

And you are an insensitive idiot if you couldn’t read this thread and understand why ‘queer’ is useless at best and incredibly hurtful at worst. Just like the N-word. None of us gay men or women need or want or recognize your heroism. F&Fed and blocked.

R224 You are indeed an idiot if you're unable to read all the replies in this thread where people are saying they find the word offensive.

How progressive, liberal and woke for you to be telling people what they find offensive is wrong.

R224 Stop missexualitying us.

All this talk of "reclaiming" the word and the power this gives the minority... I'm sorry, but what are some other examples of minority groups accepting and promoting a former slur for others to describe the group in public or in academia? Is that really a thing? Can you give examples?

R224) So, your generation brought an end to homophobia because you reclaimed the meaning of words? Tell that to people who got arrested at Stonewall. Or Edie Windsor, whose long legal battle helped bring about marriage equality. Or how about us unknown, unnamed people that went to work every day and allowed co-workers to get to know us? In using humour and being ourselves, people who had never known or had a gay or lesbian friend before realized there was nothing to fear.

R229 Don't be ridiculous. Speak to anyone in the Chink, Kook, Kike, Paki, N igger or Bean communities. These words are EMPOWERING.

OP I wouldn't have it any other way. It's unifying.

Another idiot at R232. How can it be unifying if so many of us are against the use of the word? Sanctimonious twat.

OP I wouldn't have it in any way. It's divisive.

Do blacks like being called n***gars? Do Hispanics like "wetbacks" or "spics"? Do poor whites like being called "white trash"? Do Italians like being called "WOPS" or "dagos"?

r224 I was born in 89, your argument is invalid.

I think of myself as gay (and I call myself Phoebe)--I am an eldergay. But I use queer as the umbrella term with my students and the more I use it the less sting it has. It does not have any real sting for the students with whom I interact--it is their word of choice, and, as R232 suggests, it provides them with a broader umbrella of identification. Language changes over time. I understand why people resist queer--I, too, have memories of psychological and physical violence associated with the word, but, in a way that is imperfectly analogous to the shift from "colored people" to "people of color" (the former never had the sting of "queer," I acknowledge), sometimes you just have to go with the flow--I think it would be disrespectful if a person asked to be referred to as queer to insist on calling them "gay" or "Uranian," for that matter.

Vote in the poll.

Is the very vocal pro-queer poster a freshly unemployed HuffPo "journalist"? It would explain a lot.

Hey, teacher, FUCK YOU.

[quote]Is the very vocal pro-queer poster a freshly unemployed HuffPo "journalist"? It would explain a lot.

Out of curiosity, I used trolldar on the unhinged, ageist "queer" at R214, and this person has posted 30 times on this thread. If ever a situation called for a banning by Muriel, this would seem to be it.

R237, I appreciated your thoughtful comment. So far, on this thread and in real life, I've heard two major objections to the word "queer": 1) it's a painful slur, and 2) it lumps us in with non-gays. You've addressed the first objection, but not the second. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, and to your positive feelings about a "broader umbrella of identification." For many of us, though, this is a source of frustration. We don't believe that we have anything in common with the straight "queer" couple at R104. In fact, we are starting to think that these people do not have our best interests at heart.

R241, gay men and women also have nothing in common with the trans either.

All of this garbage is resulting in more and more gay men and lesbians to pretty much "walk away" from the GLB "community". Still gay, but have cut the association with gay community as a whole.

I definitely have nothing to do with the gay community—except for all those untold hours I spent cruising for dick among my brethren—and if the “community” morphs into the “Queer” community—which I don’t think it will, at least not until after I’m dead (I’m only 39)—I will disown it completely.

To the teacher who uses ‘queer’ as an umbrella term: if I were in your class, I would raise holy hell and you would have no choice but to submit to my demands. That’s how outrage culture works, and this IS an outrage.

Op, looks like answer is:

[bold]Hell, No.[/bold]

But it doesn’t matter. Non-gays can call us anything they want, even if we hate it.

True, R244, but the term is now being freely used by the LGB press as well. I don't even look at any of them anymore.

Millennial here (1988). I don't care for queer, especially considering some woman with mermaid hair and some piercings could somehow be considered to be under the same umbrella as me. It just doesn't make sense. Why should my experience as a gay man hold the same weight, or even be considered similar to some woman who drunkenly made out with a chick ONCE. I take more offense to faggot. I would say that faggot is for millennials is what queer was for previous generations perhaps. I don't see value in reclaiming either.

[quote]the term is now being freely used by the LGB press as well. I don't even look at any of them anymore.

Which is PRECISELY why it is bleeding readership, relevancy and--MOST important to them----$$$.

What's the point of this thread? Queer ain't going anywhere now, so it's time to move on. This thread is pointless.

Tell me, oh wise grasshopper, what homophobia has to do with your utopian queers, since by your own words queer doesn't mean sexual attraction to the same sex?

[quote]Queer ain't going anywhere now

The term is only popular among non-gays. In fact, if a woman introduces herself to me as "queer," I instantly translate that to "not a lesbian" in my head, and this shortcut has proved 100% accurate.

[quote]Why should my experience as a gay man hold the same weight, or even be considered similar to some woman who drunkenly made out with a chick ONCE?

R246, I couldn't agree more.

What if you're a queer nigger?

I've never met anyone in 20 years who wanted to be referred to as "queer" - with friends from 20s to 60s. I don't even understand why this is an issue. In reality - and I lived in 2 major cities - I haven't encountered this ever. But I avoid weirdos.

There was an attempt to shorten the LGBTQPTIA soup to "GSM" but it never caught on (Gender & Sexual Minority). I wonder if that acronym bothered anyone or if people just were tired of labels.

I can understand that some gen z people grew up with "gay" being a slur - so why can't they understand that any of the people older than them grew up with queer being a slur? Why is that so complicated for them? It was used sparsely over the years by people who are now older in certain situations that like to get cited"we're here - we're queer - get used to it" - not as a personal label.

R243, 237 here. If you told me you preferred to be referred to as gay, I would do do, and, in an academic situation, of course there are specific terms that make sense when we're discussing different populations--some topics are relevant yo gay men, some to lesbians, dome to bisexuals, dome to trans, and we use those terms too. But LGBTQ+ is simply less efficient than queer to distinguish the entire group from non heterosexual people. Would I consider BDSM fetishists queer--well, that's up for discussion (and I'm less inclined to include BDSM heterosexuals as queer, because they are still, at some level heteronormative).

AS to your threat to raise holy hell in the classroom if I used the word queer--you'd be removed from it in a second if you did more than register your preference to be identified by a differen term. Trust me, students don't yet have the right to dictate climate or contact in my classroom. I can't imagine why you would in it anyway--the course title (not set by me) is queer studies. If the word queer is such a "trigger" for you, the intelligent decision would be not to enroll in the first place. We talk about the different terms and why we may choose to use whichever ones you prefer--and why. Beyond that, you have more right to police my language than fo the SJWs, who can be as tedious as you surely are.

Just curious, who insists on setting the title as "queer studies"? Isn't it mostly "the history of gays and lesbians" in the actual curriculum?

You teach a “queer studies” course, r253, and you think *I’m* the tedious one?

You’re right, I wouldn’t go anywhere near your class with a title like that. But now I understand why you’re eager to defend the use of this awful word. You are the sort of person we’re railing against in this thread. Brave of you to participate, I’ll give you that.

I'm offended by the word queer...id rather be called a fag..... Gay is what we are

What exactly is wrong with queer studies? It has long been accepted as the scholarly term to describe the study of our community.

Didn't "queer" studies use to be "gay and lesbian studies"? That sounds better than "queer studies." I was already through with school by the time "queer" happened in academia, but I always found the title offputting.

[quote]What exactly is wrong with queer studies? It has long been accepted as the scholarly term to describe the study of our community.

Um, it hasn’t been THAT long, and I don’t think they ever polled the gay and lesbian masses to find out if that word was okay. So just because in academia it’s the official term for us, or whatever, doesn’t make it okay.

Aren’t there African-American Studies courses as well? Would it be cool if the academics just decided to call them Nigger Studies?

r243 You're making me want to present hole.

r250 100% correct, and this is also true among all but one male 'queer' I've ever met. The one who wasn't strictly heterosexual? You guessed it, bisexual in a relationship with a woman. It's so predictable you could set your clock to it.

What R1 said.

Queer is just a term woke straight people use to describe themselves. That way they seem more liberal, gay friendly and open minded. Most of the time they're straight though.

[quote]Queer is just a term woke straight people use to describe themselves.

OR to validate a particular sexual interest or naughty kink. Which is ANOTHER reason I despise the term.

These straights and bisexuals with unconventional erotic tastes and quirks are basically conflating OUR homosexuality with THEIR enjoyment of non-vanilla sex. Basically saying "hey we're all freaks and mental cases just like the gays and THEY got society to accept them so let's just all be "queer" TOGETHER!"

Case in point, I had a straight male friend who I discovered was downloading bestiality porn on my computer. When I discovered it and ordered him to STOP he totally ignored me and did it again a month later. As I was kicking him out of the house for good, he actually told me he didn't think I would think it was such a big deal because after all, being gay, I should be the FIRST person to understand enjoying a freaky sex fetish. And he didn't mean it as an insult. That's TRULY how he conceptualized homosexualty.

LOL, r264.

Yes, that is indeed how a lot of straights see us homosexuals—even the ones who mean us no harm. Sad but true.

And lumping the T in with us just adds to the perception that we’re “freaks”.

I love it

I really don't care what I'm called. The people insisting they should never be called queer are as tedious as the ones trying to make the word more mainstream. It doesn't matter even a little

My god, the hysteria in this thread about a word.

Most of you never left the place you grew up, did you?

[quote]My god, the hysteria in this thread about a word.

My god, the HYSTERIA over the hysteria in this thread about a word.

Do trannies like being called trannies?

Who cares, it doesn’t matter. Let’s reclaim the word tranny. Even if they don’t like it. It’s just a word.

If they can decide to call us queer despite our protests, then gays & lesbians can call them trannies.

Because they are trannies! Own it.

Tranny tranny tranny tranny

And since words don’t matter, then let’s call people only by their bio sex. So Caitlyn Jenner gets male pronouns. Who cares if he likes it or not. It’s not up to him. And as we can see, it’s no big deal when one group forces another group to be called words they don’t like.

Blame academia, since a majority of "academics" is nothing more than mental masterbation for the more privileged, with no place in the mainstream. It's pretty obvious how obnoxious this has become when a "queer studies" professor actually admits BDSM for heterosexuals could technically fall under "queer" too. Way to erase gays and lesbians.

The "queer" defenders are hypocritical assholes, showing their ignorance by openly admitting "queer" covers "gender", straights, sexual kinks and fetishes, allies, "people of color", etc. How very "inclusive" to everyone except those who are actually homosexual, you know, the people that "queer" is supposed to represent and "unite". All while they put ageism, homophobia, and ignorance on display.

Like "people of color", queer just erases the very people it's supposed to cover, while being offensive. "People of color" don't like this bullshit either, but are once again ignored by academics and the white people "inclusive" club members. Inclusiveness, while excluding the very people they supposedly want to represent.

These vague meaningless labels just take power away from the marginalized. It causes them to be anonymous, because now they are a faceless, voiceless group of whoever happens to be less than milky white (Poc) or identifies as unusual (queer).

Congratulations for making "inclusiveness" meaningless and insulting.

Almost forgot; it's even more pathetic these labels are defended because it's easier to throw everyone in together, in a vaguely labeled, bullshit stew, than having to properly address people. Seriously, some of the excuses here boiled down to it being a simplier, shorter label to write out or say. 🙄 AKA, just being lazy.

Are they serious about straight people being queer?

Because of the attempt to normalize this vile anti-gay slur, I have reached the point where I am willing to support hate speech laws with mandatory capital punishment for offenders.

BRUCE Jenner, R270. Do not play ANY of their word games. Do not let them control the narrative on ANY topic. This is a war on men and a war on homosexuality, plain and simple.

The Millennials- and younger- grew up with "That's so GAY!" being a pejorative phrase. Then they hit college and saw classes called Queer Theory this and that. They think they are 'woke' but they just inherited their parent's homophobia.

Str8 white liberals are going to get us all killed if we don't stop them.

R271 I didn't say I consider BDSM heterosexuals to be queer--only that it was open for discussion, which, silly me, I thought was one of the points of the college classroom. As for the title of the class, well, that was established long before I taught it--and, no, it's not just the history of LG people--it includes trans issues (though there are now some separate courses in trans studies), intersex people, and others who are situated oytside heterosexuality per se. I do find many of my 18-22 year olds, insofar as they state an identity in class (I, of course, fo not ask them directly, and do explain why i identify as gay), are more likely to choose the broader term queer. Yes, some of that may be the trendiness of the term, some of it may be because they are still forming a sense of identity (and that is true in other dimensions of their, especially around class these days--something they find even more difficult to discuss), but also because they feel less pressure to check what they feel to be a more limiting box. They are barely adults--some still late adolescents--why not experiment with different ways of experiencing and naming their identities? By the time they are 25, they may find themselves in a different life and head space. And no, there's no indoctrination, where they repeat "queer" until the gay is out of their heads.

A fair number of students in the class identify as straight --they take the class either to fulfill a diversity requirement or often because because a family member (usually a sibling) or friend has come out and the straight student wants to learn more in order to understand and support them. Those are often my favorite students, as they often do not enter the class with received dogma. They just want to learn and they want to be open to different perspectives--unlike many on this thread.

I have only had a handful of students who have been eye-rollingly narrow in policing everyone's language. Trust me, their fellow students find them equally boring and tyrannical and call them on it.

Per r272, it’s like “person” now defaults to mean “straight, white male.”

Maybe we should call women “non-men.” Instead of men & women, we can have men & nonmen.

Just like instead of white & black, we have white & POC.

Instead of gay & straight, we have normal & queer.

They’re the default. The rest of us are not “ourselves” — we are “not them. “

R278, I don’t “identify” as gay. I am gay.

Women don’t “identify” as women. They are women. And they can’t identify out of rape.

Baby girls in China are not killed because of their “identities.” They’re killed because they have vaginas.

Since you’re an educator, I would assume your mind is open. Are you open to the idea that T ideology is homophobic & misogynist?

R268, to control words is to control thoughts. Everyone knows this.

Let’s reclaim “cracker” and assign it to all white peoople. Never mind it just means all white people who are assumed to be stupid ass ignorant hillbilly bigots bereft of any education.

We’re reclaiming it, so *all* white people are automaticallyl now Crackers. Own it, bitches. Because all *allies* - especially you fucking self-proclaimed allies of everything who stuff labels on everyone without their consent get this goddamn unwanted pink triangle first.

You’re Crackers. Own it, wear it, live it. Cracker Bitches.

I think when potentially homophobic people see that we have courses in queer studies or have queer cinema night down at Film Forum that they have no power to use queer against us. We own the word. It’s a wasp without its stinger, or better yet the stinger has turned against our oppressors.

R283 Go reclaim "moron."

[quote]My god, the hysteria in this thread about a word. Most of you never left the place you grew up, did you?

Of course we did. We got tired of living in small, conservative towns where teenage boys drove past us in their cars yelling “Queer!” and “Hey, are you really a fag like you look?”

No idea why you think hating the slur ‘queer’ has anything to do with never leaving our hometowns.

Do you make the same claim about blacks who don’t like being called ‘nigger’ by non-blacks?

R279 the British Green Party already refer to women as non-men.

[quote]I think when potentially homophobic people see that we have courses in queer studies or have queer cinema night down at Film Forum that they have no power to use queer against us.

I follow the Film Forum on Instagram because I like a lot of their repertory showings, but I’m about to unfollow them (I know, stating my boundaries, blah blah) and email them to tell them I’m sick of seeing their Queer Cinema, “a queer love story”, “queer relationships” synopses and hashtags. Just use the fucking word ‘gay’. ‘Queer’ does not take the sting away. It just brings up old trauma.

Here’s the thing. Most black people don’t having people yelling ‘nigger!’ at them on a regular basis anymore. Most gay people don’t have people yelling ‘Queer!’ at them. That has nothing to do with words being reclaimed by marginalized groups; it has to do with changing cultural attitudes toward minority groups.

Just because the times have changed doesn’t mean that those old words carry any less sting to them.

I was watching the fireworks from the sidewalk downtown on New Years Eve and a carful of young men drove past and one shouted at me, "QUEEER!!". It didn't feel empowering; it just felt scary, embarrassing and depressing. I appreciate our 'Str8 allies' supporting us and everything, but them trying to climb on the Rainbow Boat with their 'bi' and 'questioning' and 'queer' is bringing gay folks down.

See, it still does happen ^^^ and it still stings, to say the least.

WW r284

You have to be mentally ill to think this is a real issue

r280. Yes, I am open to that and I often try to raise it in terms that allow space for non-extremist opinions to find voice. I don't think the existence of trans people and their sense of authentic it HAS to be, by definition, as some people seem to think, either homophobic or misogynist. I think it is only the most vocal and tireless (as well as tiresome) trans activists who would suggest that all feminine boys are really little girls and all masculine girls are really little boys--and I don't run into these attitudes much in my daily life. I know we see the worst offenders in some of the news items posted on DL threads--and I think the "Womyn-born-womyn" had a reasonable complaint about being bullied into sharing private space at Michfest--like showers, etc. What I think often happens is that we forget that MTFs were raised male and I think their "gender affirmation" (a term that does give me some trouble, for reasons I won't be pedantic enough to go into here) procedures cannot undo decades of socialization and entitlement. I also think those FTMs who rail at gay men for not wanting to have sex with them (and I have actually never met such a person) are as misguided as anyone who seems to think they should have the right to dictate, for any reason, what another person's category of desire (though, before someone gets into whataboutism, I do think laws protecting children and animals from sexual predation ARE necessary--I would not view such desires as part of Our One Big Happy Queer Tent). I also do think young people should be allowed to dress and act in whatever gendered way they wish. I have a difficult time imagining a situation in which I would think surgical procedures should be approved before legal age (and given what we know about brain development, it might be better to wait til past 25 to do anything that can't be undone). I don't know what to think about puberty blockers--my endocrinologist (for the diebeetus, as we say here) told me that a growing part of his practice involved hormone therapy for trans-identified people, and that he sees a world of difference (positive) in patients who have undergone hormonal treatment. But I also watch the Jazz Circus and it seems to me that the litany that one can just stop hormone blockers without any lasting changes having occurred is questionable and depends on what we mean by "lasting." I can't tell what the actual incidence of desistance among post-op trans folk is--different studies come up with different data.

And, btw, I don't view the "Jennings" as a poster family of mental health--we get such a highly edited picture of their lives, but the only ones who seem to have a good handle on life are the older sister (who seems, wisely, to have checked out as much as possible) and the grandparents. The brothers, while adorable in the way puppies are, don't seem to have the IQs of my cats, and the one seems like a jilted lover. Jazz is like most teenagers, whether girls or gay boys--more interested in looks, gossip, and herself--not in itself bad or something she couldn't grow out of, except she's gone through an extreme and extremely public puberty--it's hard enough without the cameras and the layers that trans identity adds. I think the parents are the truly hard to watch people--the mother could make you want to become a hermit in a cave and the dad seems like he'd rather spend with the other family he perhaps has in a different city. I used to give him a pass, because Jeanette is dough a gorgon, but she may also be a gorgon in part because he is do passive and distant. That combination is by no means unique to queer, trans, gay, lesbian, intersex, or any other "special" family!

[quote]we forget that MTFs were raised male ...procedures cannot undo decades of socialization and entitlement.

Um, no “we” don’t. That’s one of the biggest problems feminists have with “transwomen”...their MALE entitlement. Of course, cosmetic surgery does nothing for socialization & entitlement. Anyone born male will die male. Sex can’t be changed. No transwoman will ever know what it’s like to be a girl child...to grow up female. Not even Jazz. Because he’s not a girl. He doesn’t have to worry about periods & pregnancy.

You know a lot about Jazz & the Kardashians. Is that part of being an academic — following trash tv? How noble.

R293 How snobby! Yes, if I'm going to teach about trans issues, it behooves me to know about Jazz Jennings, as, for better or worse, she is one of the major faces out there for my students (I know little about the Kardashians, other than Jenner's narrative). My students also read Woolf's Orlando and Eugenides' Middlesex, you decrepit asshole.

[quote]I appreciate our 'Str8 allies' supporting us and everything, but them trying to climb on the Rainbow Boat with their 'bi' and 'questioning' and 'queer' is bringing gay folks down.

With "friends" like THAT, who needs.................well, you know the rest.

Ugh, a teacher who likes to hear himself talk.

If any good looking gent called me queer, id jump madly into their arms and proclaim for the world to hear: YES IM QUEER, SO WHAT U FUK?

[quote]Ugh, a teacher who likes to hear himself talk.

...as tedious and masturbatory as one would expect from a Queer Studies instructor.

Actually the queer studies professor sounds like one of the sanest people on this thread!

[quote]r292 "...without polling the population..."

Oh, that sounds practical.

Why don't you undertake it? (And be sure to include the accuracy controls you put in place, so the results can be verified and replicated.)

[quote]Actually the queer studies professor sounds like one of the sanest people on this thread!

I agree, R299. I've posted a couple of times here, first at R107 and most recently at R241. I'm strongly opposed to the use of the word "queer" for the reasons I've already outlined. But I'm embarrassed by some of the other posters who are on my side of this. I thought the goal was to hear and understand different perspectives, and to try to persuade other people to see ours. Queer Studies Prof wrote a nuanced and thoughtful post at R292, and then was insulted as "a teacher who likes to hear himself talk." No one bothered to address any of the actual points he made. It's a can't-win situation for him, and it reflects poorly on us.

R301, The queer studies instructor lives in academia. The use of the word ‘queer’ in academia is not like the use of the word and people’s attitudes toward outside of academia.

R300, why do you think a single commented on Datalounge should be the one to undertake that kind of polling endeavor? You don’t suppose there’s any other way? Your comment is completely asinine.

Ugh, fucking typos. That was:

“people’s attitudes toward it”

and

“a single commenter on Datalounge”

It's not about "liking" to be called a queer.

OP is asking a loaded, manipulative question because he is a hysterical moron with no rational cause for offense.

It's about not minding being called "queer" by other queer people with no intention to denigrate because it subverts the word's original intent and power, instead of giving the word more power -- which is what tabooing the word does.

And because there needs to be one, simple and practical word to describe sexuality that deviates from the norm instead of saying "LGBTQILMNOP ..."

Re: your last paragraph, r304, if you’ve read through this thread you would understand why there are legitimate objections gay people have to being lumped in with transsexuals — which is not a sexual minority — and kinky straight people.

If you want, you can start a different thread that asks the questions, Do you mind the word ‘queer’? and Are you okay with the word ‘queer’ taking the place of LGBTQAI+?

I think we’ve pretty much covered all of it here, though.

R294, your shitty attitude is understandable. You teach pure BS.

R301, what the hell does a child reality tv star have to do with gay history, culture & rights?

Maybe when he comes out as a gay man & openly regrets having his penis cut off Jazz will be worthy of study.

But any prof who follows that kid & the Kardashians is an empty, vacant fool & complete waste of time.

Yes.

So r304...homos deviate from the norm...and “queer” is therefore appropriate for us...as it is with pedos & fetishists...our fellow “queers.”

Fuck off homophobe.

Anyone who uses “queer” is homophobic.

R307, I think R292's argument is that, as someone who works in a subfield of critical theory, it is necessary for him to stay abreast of social and cultural trends, including reality television.

Personally, I question the worth of critical theory as an area of study (and, in my experience on two different campuses, "queer theory" has little relevance to gay people these days). I'm just trying to be fair to R292.

R292 here. I'm not a "queer studies professor," per se--it is the one course I teach in our Women's and Gender Studies program. My primary training is in literature and rhetoric, and the queer studies course includes a fair amount of established, well-regarded writers, from Gertrude Stein to E.M. Forster to Willa Cather to James Baldwin to Martin Duberman to Tony Kushner and beyond. But 18-22 year olds also turn to reality television and social media for a lof of their information (whether it's always accurate is part of my job to get them to evaluate). They also want to talk about how their secularity and sexual identity are involved with their family lives, their spiritual beliefs and religious heritage, and their racial and ethnic background. Some are, as young adults can be, very dualistic (everything is right or wrong, good or bad), some can be over-zealous (and I get tired of their policing my language and perspectives, but that's part of what they are doing by learning how to become what I hope will eventually be more open and thoughtful people--they go a bit overboard on the way. But they also can be remarkably sensitive to and supportive of each other's struggles to understand different life experiences--more than I can say for some posters here, I'm sorry to say. (And to those who, while still disagreeing with my points, still get why I don't dictate "right" language to my students--thank you). Truth be told, I struggle with the actual speaking of the word "queer," for many of the reasons others have described. I don't just blithely go around saying it without feeling in my flesh and bones how that word has hurt me (and many, many others). And I talk about that with my students.

But I feel like I have become a straw man in this thread--a kind of phantasm ice presence on whom people are projecting their anger and pain--anger and pain I have shared in my life. (I am 60.) I don't relish continuing to be a punching bag--frankly, I gave had enough of that for a lifetime. I thought my experiences might help illuminate what is actually going in classrooms (or at least in one classroom) and be of value. So, I'll bow out and leave you to continue.

r301 Ironically your objection to others protesting the word 'queer' is similar in motivation for others TO protest the word 'queer.' But I get your point, and I think it's a good one, if futile. People get understandably charged when talking about hateful slurs like this becoming mainstream without their consent or even consideration of the harm it causes them. That doesn't mean that childish "the professor sucks! he is a bad teacher! loves to hear himself talk!" is ever acceptable, but it is understandable.

r311 I don't know to what extent you've become a straw man, per se, but certainly a whipping boy. This post better rounds out and provides context to your argument, although I'm still not sure what it was exactly? You don't like the word queer and snowflakeism more generally, but given your career you participate nonetheless? I don't think you're Vichy France, but I do hope you impress upon your students that cavalier use of 'queer' is likely to harm the people at whom it has historically and still presently been used to hurt and other. I also hope you viciously beat any non-homosexuals who engage in it's use.

r311 And I just saw that while you're "less inclined to consider BDSM heterosexuals as queer," you do consider the topic up for discussion. That is pure "Queer Studies Professor Caricature" come to life, and is disturbing tbh. I saw your qualifying of it later, but come on. Just because a university should foster debate doesn't mean that every topic is worthy of one. I said this before, if the term 'queer' includes heterosexuals then it is functionally worthless. The disparate identities at that point truly have Nothing in common.

[quote] As for the title of the class, well, that was established long before I taught it--and, no, it's not just the history of LG people--it includes trans issues (though there are now some separate courses in trans studies), intersex people, and others who are situated outside heterosexuality.

If you see this, just tell me: Is there any class that is JUST about gay/lesbian history/studies, as apparently there is about trans?

R313 a lot of good points and I too am curious if there's any just gay/lesbian classes. It's hard for me to find justification in not only allowing "queer" to be a label, without figuring out if a community readily accepts it, but it suddenly covers straight trans people, intersex conditions, asexuality, alternative gender identities, and possibly those with sexual kinks, maybe allies, and "POC"...? Really?!

No shit it's easier than saying LGBTQIABCDEF; but that's because that's partially due to the shit ton of parasites clinging on, and forcing the inclusion of people, when it doesn't make sense, nor did some of them ask to be included.

There was just an article that tried to argue "hoarding" is queer, because it's behavior that goes against society's "heteronormative" ways. I wish I was making that up.

So EVERYONE but white people that "identify" as "straight and cis", that have boring sex? Why even bother with having a community or label at all, if it's been transformed into something vague, basically representing, what, at the very least, 75% of the global population? Wouldn't that technically make "queer" the mainstream now, defeating the entire point of "queer"?

The other poster got it right, by calling out this "identifying" bullshit. Sexual orientation, biological sex, race, certain disabilities, etc. Aren't identities to adopt and play around with. It's insanely offensive actually. Oppressed groups don't choose to identify into oppression.

The more I think on this, the more frustrated I become, knowing that this is being taught as something acceptable.

So basically "queer" REINFORCES the old canard that:

Traditional heterosexuality and gender role expectations= NORMAL

Everything else= FUCKED IN THE HEAD

The more things change------

Ultimately , "queer" is about normalizing and validating mental illness, personality disorders and paraphilic ideation.

"Being Queer In A Heterosexual Relationship" 🙄

[quote] Out of curiosity, I used trolldar on the unhinged, ageist "queer" at [R214], and this person has posted 30 times on this thread. If ever a situation called for a banning by Muriel, this would seem to be it.

I sure hope you kept me on ignore, because I post as often in a thread as I want.

But how many of those "as often" times do you have anything worth saying, r318?

[quote] Reclamation

[quote] Beginning in the late-1980s, the label queer began to be reclaimed from its pejorative use as a neutral or positive self-identifier by LGBT people.[3] An early example of this usage by the LGBT community was by an organisation called Queer Nation, which was formed in March 1990 and circulated an anonymous flier at the New York Gay Pride Parade in June 1990 titled "Queers Read This".[1] The flier included a passage explaining their adoption of the label queer:

[quote] Ah, do we really have to use that word? It's trouble. Every gay person has his or her own take on it. For some it means strange and eccentric and kind of mysterious [...] And for others "queer" conjures up those awful memories of adolescent suffering [...] Well, yes, "gay" is great. It has its place. But when a lot of lesbians and gay men wake up in the morning we feel angry and disgusted, not gay. So we've chosen to call ourselves queer. Using "queer" is a way of reminding us how we are perceived by the rest of the world.[1]

[quote] Queer people, particularly queer people of color, began to reclaim queer in response to a perceived shift in the gay community toward liberal conservatism, catalyzed by Andrew Sullivan's 1989 piece in The New Republic, titled Here Comes the Groom: The Conservative Case for Gay Marriage.[13] The queer movement rejected causes viewed as assimilationist, such as marriage, military inclusion and adoption.[2] This radical stance and rejection of U.S. Imperialism[2] continued the tradition of earlier Lesbian and Gay anti-war activism, and solidarity with a variety of leftist movements, such as seen in the positions taken at the first two National Marches on Washington in 1979 and 1987, the radical direct action of groups like ACT UP, and the historical importance of events like the Stonewall riots. The radical Queer groups following in this tradition of LGBT activism contrasted firmly with, "the holy trinity of marriage, military service and adoption [which had] become the central preoccupation of a gay movement centered more on obtaining straight privilege than challenging power."[2] Commentators noted that it was exactly these "revolting queers" (who were now being pushed aside) who had made it safe for the assimilationists to now have the option of assimilation.[2]

I don't care so much about "queer", but the alphabet soup part grates on my animal crackers.

[quote]when a lot of lesbians and gay men wake up in the morning we feel angry and disgusted, not gay. So we've chosen to call ourselves queer.

So it's the "angry, disgusted" gays who are "queer."

[quote]The queer movement rejected causes viewed as assimilationist, such as marriage, military inclusion and adoption.

And the anti-marriage, anti-adoption gays. They're the true "queers." (I actually agree with military exclusion.)

I'm more offended by gay men who think it's hip to call themselves and others "faggots." I'm not always offended by that, but it's more likely to offend me than the queer thing.

[quote] The other poster got it right, by calling out this "identifying" bullshit. Sexual orientation, biological sex, race, certain disabilities, etc. Aren't identities to adopt and play around with. It's insanely offensive actually. Oppressed groups don't choose to identify into oppression.

[quote] The more I think on this, the more frustrated I become, knowing that this is being taught as something acceptable.

There is great potential for empowerment to embrace and accept yourself and one's outsider status instead of begging and groveling to be accepted be someone you are not.

Sorry ... to be accepted AS somone you are not.

K for Kink wants in now. And, according to mag, GAY UK, this is the current official acronym: LGBTQQICAPF2K+

[quote] That stands for “Lesbian,” “Gay,” “Bisexual,” “Transgender,” “Queer,” “Questioning,” “Intersex,” “Curious,” “Asexual,” “Agender,” “Ally,” “Pansexual,” “Polysexual,” “Friends and family,” “Two-spirit” and “Kink.” The Gay UK said the acronym has been growing since the 90s “out of a need to move away from the limiting ‘gay community’” and to “encompass any community that defines itself as anything but heterosexual or cisgender.”

In that case, I am a C for "Curious." Curious as to who the FUCK would use such a ridiculous acronym.

[quote]There is great potential for empowerment to embrace and accept yourself

Yes there is...agreed. That’s what Gay Pride is all about.

However, the Ts want to “pass,” mutilate healthy sex organs, & ingest chemicals to cosmetically appear as their opposite sex. That’s the opposite of self-acceptance...that is LITERALLY self-destructive.

[quote]outsider status

Lol. Everybody is an “outsider” in some sense. As Dr. Angelou said, “we are more alike than unalike.”

And no, I don’t want to go back to the gay ghettos of the 1990s. I want to live a secure & enjoyable life. I work...pay taxes...I deserve everything straights have. I deserve a family & home of my own. I don’t deserve marginalization.

[quote]instead of begging and groveling to be accepted be someone you are not.

Which suits the Ts to a T. They LITERALLY freak out if someone calls them SIR.

[quote] the need to move away from the limiting ‘gay community’

I have a crazy idea, stay with me on this. What if we limited the gay community to people who are... gay? Or is that "gatekeeping" to say that JUST gay people (by which I mean exclusively same-sex attracted males and females) can be in the gay community. I'm not going to fight for the rights of Questioning, Curious, Asexual, Agender, Allies, Pansexuals, Polysexuals, Two-Spirited, or even "Friends and family." I wasn't born gay so that I can fight for people with a Kink, and I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO.

r325 I would have no problem calling myself "queer" (despite it's historical and continued use as a slur) if it just applied to HOMOSEXUALS. Hell, I'd probably still be open to it if it were just "TLGB" people. But it's being reclaimed by people who it was never used against, who have endured exactly zero actual oppression for their sexuality, and to me that's just the same as it being used as a slur.

R327. Jesus, Why not just make it -H (Not Hetero). That’s batshit stupid and childish. You get a LETTER and YOU get a LETTER ...

[quote]“encompass any community that defines itself as anything but heterosexual or cisgender.”

Since when are het and cisgender synonymous?

So not being straight makes you a tranny?

I don’t mind. It wouldn’t be my first choice, but if it’s well intended, I have bigger fish to fry.

r331 You want to EXCLUDE heterosexuals? The TLGBCDEFGHIJKLMNOP community is about INCLUSION, you bigot.

[quote]All the trite little “queer is inclusive” cunts have never experienced hearing the word queer as the boot connects with your skull.

I'm sure someday when you start paying your own rent you will feel worse than a "boot connecting to your skull".

MARY!

Lighten UP, queen!

R333, such as ignoring homosexuals?

By “lighten up”, r335 means gaslighting up.

Gay bashing is why gays need to unite together as a community.

If protecting us from bashing is not a priority, then what good is the LGBTQIAKP+ community for?

There is no "LGBTQIAKP+ community".

I’ve always thought “community” makes it sound like we all live in the same suburban development, and organize cookouts and block parties together.

It's time for gays and lesbians to separate themselves from trannies and queers. We have no more in common with them than we do any other minority. It was ridiculous to align with them in the first place. Let them do their thing and let us do ours. This is all getting absurd.

When I was young and very naive, I underestimated the number of people who were like me. So when I started going to West Hollywood and met others like me, I was like a happy puppy but quickly got the lesson that just because you're gay doesn't mean other gays will like you or you will like other gays. I had to separate myself from the evil queens who were filled with self-hatred and hated anybody with any sense of self-esteem and happiness, but somehow they manipulated their way among the friend I did make who didn't see them the same way I did. A drunk guy once tried to intrude in on our group and when he wasn't exactly welcomed, slurred back with "What happened to gay brotherhood?" I never forgot that, and realized quickly that different types of gays will not be welcoming. As a preppy looking young guy, I went to the Gauntlet in Silver Lake, and some equally clean cut older guy told me I looked out of place, that I should get back on the 304 and go back to "Boy's Town". Later on, I went to the Hangar in the West Village and some white street kid walked up to me and said crackers weren't welcome there. I'd been going there for years, had no issues, and all of a sudden, I'm picked out of the crowd to verbally assault because of their inner anger. While I am a professional and educated, I am certainly not a snob, so it really amazed me to be a victim of reverse snobbery because of simply how I looked to that asshole. So the gay and lesbian community has its separate cliques, and that's fine by me, but stop adding in all the other tribes for "inclusiveness". It has done us more harm than good. R340, I completely agree with you.

R341, please learn how to use paragraphs. Nobody wants to read your big block of text, no matter how interesting or informative it is.

R342 You should have your doctor adjust your Adderall dosage, if 341's posting was too challenging for your ADHD.

I can read it just fine, but paragraphs are nice. Not nasty, like you.

But points given for your originality "Adjust your meds," ha! That's a new one!