Theatre Gossip #343: The "We all hate Carol Burnett, but not as much as the last three OPs" edition.

THE CRADLE WILL ROCK revival!

Woo-hoo! Counting the days, bro!

What do we think of this song from the new Duncan Sheik ALICE musical?

I think it's pretty, but it feels like a B-side from SPRING AWAKENING (a score I liked very much, BTW).

Anyone hear anything about the York production of Lolita, My Love? Curious who the cast will be.

Oh, joy....two competing threads.

Goody.

Of course there are two competing threads. It happened before, so one should be closed. let's close this one, since it's not the official one. Hey, what are your views on colorblind casting?

Two competing threads. Two especially shitty opening titles. But at least this one has the correct thread number. I vote to kill the other one.

An observation about Carmen Cusack in CMM. They practically mummified her in those ultra tight outfits. And that translated to her performance. She never had the chance to let go and bust loose, because she she was encased in all those schmatas. It was a tight, humorless performance because she could barely breathe.

Just watched this. The score isn't a good fit for her voice. Also the role works better with a hint of....shall I say matron?

Well oops, dammit.

Betty Lynn as Dolly

Anyone else watch the Lincoln Center production of "Pipeline" on PBS? (It was on Friday night here in SF.) I thought it was... OK? Nearly all the performances needed to be turned down a notch for TV. And while I don't think every play needs to tie up all the loose ends by the final curtain, this play's ending seemed especially unresolved.

Benanti has extended until July.

I saw Betty on the first stop of the tour. While she was relatively charm free, she wasn't phoning in her performance as she is doing in the video. Totally underwhelming and a waste of patrons' money.

I couldn't quite see, but it appeared as though that wonderful little set of Dolly's late husband's store--which we saw on Broadway--isn't in the video here. Is this a cheaper production than we saw on Broadway?

Disappointing.

R14, there's a long thread about the tour at BWW and the difference in the sets between New York and the tour are very minimal. The costumes are the same. Everyone seems delighted with the physical production.

Good God, the marquee and enormous poster above the Winter Garden for Beetlejuice are an eyesore. I hope it closes promptly and The Inheritance is the first “straight” play in there since that Henry VIII thing.

Betty missed at least one performance over the weekend. She looks bored in the clip. The parade has definitely passed her by.

I wonder if Benanti negotiated more time off now that she's extended. They certainly took their time announcing the extension.

I think the problem may have been a number of concert commitments. She's said today on twitter that ticket buyers should check the schedule carefully and note the dates she'll be out--and includes a nice compliment for her u/s.

Who's her understudy, r18?

Kiersten Anderson plays Eliza (at least) once a week. She played Maria in the recent Sound of Music tour. The second understudy is Heather Botts who has also gone on a few times.

r2 It's a huge mess. The general "sound" of the music is quite good, but nothing ever congeals into a great song. It reminds me more of the Great Comet score than Spring Awakening. Some good bits and bobbles, but with few exceptions, nothing that makes a lasting impression. Unfortunately though, that score is by far the best thing about the production. The performances are scattershot and underdeveloped (I know, I saw it in previews, so its possible they'll get there... but I'd doubt it) and the whole story often doesn't make sense.

The plot is sort of half Elevator Repair Service Gatz (somebody starts reciting Alice and Wonderland, nearby people join in) but is also a war time romance story that literally nobody cares about and sometimes is utterly confusing. My guess is they were going for the Man of La Mancha framing device, but it doesn't work at all (and to be honest, I thought it was done poorly in MolM, and its far worse here).

It's no Wildhorn Wonderland in terms of disaster, but its NOT GOOD. If you are looking for an amazing Alice and Wonderland experience in New York, head to Brooklyn and see Then She Fell which is damn near perfect. Hell, if you wait a month you can go see Queen of Hearts in Brooklyn and I bet that'll also be far more worthwhile.

Is Betty’s pitch a bit variable in that clip?

Wolff Hall okayed rhe Winter Garden before School of Rock.

I'm no expert, r24, but it sounded like it to me.

Betty has missed multiple performances since the tour began and has begun blaming it on chronic bronchitis after having the flu. Jessica Sheridan. is the understudy and people like her a lot but want to see a bona fide star. There are actually several Dolly tour threads going on at BWW now but this is the longest about Betty's absences.

Jesus! Betty is awful in that clip. No charm, mannered, awful pitch on some notes, and all the indicating in her monologue was driving me crazy. Yes, Betty, we heard you when you said you made a rum toddy. We don't need to see you pretend to drink it from a tea cup. It reminds me of her "Rose's Turn" in Gypsy where on "starting now, I bat a thousand", she literally made a motion like she was a baseball player hitting a ball with a bat. Hysterical!

I can't be the only one who thinks she sort of a lousy actress. She tries so hard to feel every moment and go deeper when not every single line needs to be dissected like that. She had a stunning voice in her prime, but even that is a shell of its former glory, so there's really no need to see her in this role. She's not going to be charming or funny and she can't even sing the shit out of the score like she probably could 20 years ago. She was equally awful and charmless in that production of Gypsy 20 years ago, but at least she still had the capacity to sing the shit out of the score so that the evening wasn't a complete waste.

I had the misfortune of seeing Betty in Hello, Dolly and that clip pretty much sums it up. She's just not right for this role in any shape or form and watching her even try to land laughs was embarrassing. The performances of hers that I usually enjoy are the ones where she's playing someone insane or someone very cold. She's always excellent in those roles, but she's simply not funny at all and I think that this proves that you can try your entire professional life to be funny, but unless you're born with that natural comedy gene, you'll never be funny.

I also suffered through her Gypsy and it was equally painful. Thank God her voice was still in tip top shape at the time. At the time, I remembered thinking a simple concert of Gypsy with Betty just singing the songs would have been a much more exciting evening. I still can't find words to describe her performance. She was certainly nothing like any other Rose I've seen, but someone should have told her that different isn't always good. Can anyone else who say her in the role find words to describe the performance? Obviously, she wasn't funny at all, so act 1 was a huge bore, but there's was something weird about her entire performance. It was like she was playing Rose as clinically depressed. There was no joy or sense of life in her Rose. It was almost like she'd resigned herself to never being a star from her first line. It was just so low energy.

Contrast with Betty's "stirring" performance

I'm not the world's biggest Bette fan, but I was utterly delighted by her Dolly. Talk about the perfect blend of performer and role. She never quite hit those moments of pathos like Bernadette and Donna did, but she made up for it in sheer energy and bravado. You could tell she wanted to be out there. Betty seems horribly uncomfortable during every second of the show (I saw it in Chicago) and it makes the viewer uncomfortable. You can literally see it in her eyes that she has no idea why that joke didn't land or that piece of business landed with a big thud. It's awful to watch. I don't know how they conned her into taking a role she's so wrong for, but I hope she's at least getting paid well for it. She's probably calling in "sick", because she can't face another evening of uncomfortable silence during her laugh lines.

I’m not usually a fan of audiences shrieking and whooping it up to make themselves part of the show, but that was fun to see the total adulation they gave Bette in that number.

[quote]She's not going to be charming or funny and she can't even sing the shit out of the score like she probably could 20 years ago.

But even when BB's voice was still in great shape, it wasn't the right type of voice for Dolly Levi. So she would always have been miscast for the part in every way.

[quote]I'm telling you now so I don't have to tell you later.

Since we're being critical, the correct expression is "I'm telling you now so I don't have to tell you THEN."

Cusack's not really very brassy, is she? Caroline O'Connor would have done it much better.

Betty sounds a bit like Verdon now that the "granny" has crept into her voice.

Now, Caroline O'Connor. There's a great choice for Call Me Madam. Or Hello, Dolly. OR pretty much anything.

Debra Monk would gave been better!

Betty does have the granny voice warble now. It's actually sorta sad. I'm used to hearing her big, strong steely belt. It seemed indestructible.

Wasn't Debra Monk also up for the Papermill Gypsy that Betty got? Is that Betty's thing now? Being mediocre in roles that Debra Monk would have been brilliant in?

Now, I can't stop picturing Gwen Verdon as Dolly. She'd have been adorable.

O'Connor was supposed to do Dolly in Leicester, where she did Gypsy but she got a Broadway gig - I think it was A Christmas Story. Janie Dee was her replacement as Dolly.

There's still time for O'Connor. Dolly is truly ageless.

Jesus R7 blame the costumes? The period look was tight waists. Everyone form Ethel Merman to Judy Holiday could sing just fine in 50s dresses. From the clip at R9, they weren't even that tight. She was just wrong for the role.

The Prom is the best reviewed new musical of the season and has great word of mouth but it's grosses are tragic. What gives? They perform on Seth Meyers tonight, but I'm not sure how many tickets that will sell. I really enjoyed it and have been hoping it becomes a sleeper hit. Maybe after the Tony nominations...

The Prom is hemorrhaging money.

In better days.....

My lord, that Bacharach stuff is hard to sing.

Betty sounds so fearsome singing "Knowing When to Leave". Not very Fran.

I was just about to ask if anyone ever saw Betty in Promises, Promises. She doesn't exactly radiate the right energy for Fran. She clearly sang the hell out of the score, but she sounds too strong. Isn't Fran supposed to be a sorta fragile? To me, Betty's best role would have been in something like Fatal Attraction: The Musical. She'd have been a great Alex.

Truly, her best role was probably Margaret White in Carrie. She had just the right voice, attitude, and look for that role at just the right time.

My first introduction to Betty.....

"What do we think of this song from the new Duncan Sheik ALICE musical?"

It's just another unmemorable contemporary song from a musical, typified by its lassitude and lack of theatricality.

It's no Limehouse Blues......

r45 The Prom has very little appeal to anyone. Without blockbuster notices it was bound to be sluggish sales at best.

It doesn't have a built in a property attached, which is a huge strike against it. The tourist frau's with the 6-13 year old kids or with their gal pals are only going to go to shows with a recognizable name. Why go to "The Prom" when you can hit up Phantom of the Opera, Frozen or the Lion King? I'm not saying Broadway should be all Disney movies and ancient war horses, but it's a hard sell to get new attention.

The next big broadway going audience is the 14-21 year old girls. Here, The Prom has made some inroads, but its still fighting DEH, Mean Girls, Be More Chill, and while it may be better reviewed than Mean Girls, its not well reviewed enough to really make a splash.

Then you have adult patrons with some level of taste. Its true some of them may end up actually liking The Prom, but from an outside perspective, it looks so juvenile, you aren't going to risk it unless you've seen the musicals that actually look like they are for adults (MFL, Come from Away, maybe Hamilton). And even then, its still sounds like a kidz bop musical.

Other than the queer kids/ high school theater kids, who is clamoring for this show? Of course its hemorrhaging money. It needed to have bulletproof reviews, great songs, some level of named performers, and clever marketing. Instead it had, a decent performance by Beth Leavel? Not really the strongest selling point. Of course its losing money!

Once on this Island couldn't sell tickets and that ACTUALLY had good reviews, the prom had no chance.

Saw The prom and left at intermission. A total piece of shit with credible cast.

Wow Betty sounds like a smoker

What a shame the other thread had the wrong number, because this title is the worst yet. What is it even supposed to mean?

Massive fail, OP.

Who the fuck cares? At least he got the number right. We should stick with this one.

I bemoan the lack of talent in the current crop of Theatre Gossip OPs. Back in the day, we could count on genuine wit. I guess it's gone forever.

Social Media did that, R59

Has anyone seen "Nassim"? If so, which one of the rotating cast of guest stars did you see?

in a month we'll see Brooks in Nassim.

Betty’s voice has always been an acquired taste. Theatre queens eat it up but regular folk find her totally over the top and irritating. Ditto LuPone. Bernadette Peters and Elaine Paige have similar voices but a smoother sound and more pleasing tone so they don’t come across as strident and screechy.

Well what's stopping either of you from showing us what genuine wit is, R59 and R60?

DL fave Ben Platt's pop single has dropped....

And I don't hate it!

Should I?

When was the last time a broadway performer really crossed over and became a pop star? (Idina doesn’t count cuz her charting song was from a freaking Disney cartoon.)

I sitting here imagining Ethel and Mary in Wicked.

The Prom will be long gone by the time the Tonys come around.

R66

It is still Idina.

She crept back into the charts with the Baby It's Cold Outside duet which made adjustments for #METOO before metoo was a thing and still got a huge bump from the idiots who wanted to trigger the libtards by playing it.

[quote]r47 In better days . . .

[quote]Theatre Gossip #343: The "We all hate Carol Burnett, but not as much as the last three OPs" edition.

Why, because she didn't wreck her voice like a certain professional associate of hers did?

Jesus, that Buckley "Meadowlark" is bad. She doesn't sing the right pitches, and she plays with the note values too much. I wonder what Stephen Schwartz thinks of her rendition?????????

She asked him if she could change one particular note that never felt right to her, and he agreed with her.

So I think they're fine.

Didn't Betty record an album that included some Sondheim songs and pestered him for his opinion until he finally told her he wished she'd sing the notes he wrote?

She did beautiful versions of FINISHING THE HAT and PRETTY WOMEN (which she did in a medley with LAURA).

Those are the ones I've heard.

I've been avoiding Betty for about a decade. She does sound shaky and seems uninspired. I thought she was quite funny in Triumph of Love. Betty is surrounded by people who blow smoke up her skirt. But, I'm sure she knows it isn't going well.

Eww. The last thing I want to think about is what's up Betty's skirt.

[quote]r76 I've been avoiding Betty for about a decade. She does sound shaky and seems uninspired.

I noticed recently that Asolo Rep in Sarasota has announced a new musical by Ahrens/Flaherty, “Knoxville,” based on James Agee’s “A Death in the Family,” and the play adaptation, “All the Way Home.”

But it’s not set to open there until 2020.

A lot can happen between now and then. And aren’t A/F working on an updated version of their “Little Dancer” in someplace like Seattle?

(My mother saw “All the Way Home” on Broadway and termed it “lugubrious.”)

When Betty would stick to the notes while singing Sondheim, she was excellent. When she did that jazzy bullshit, it was abysmal. No one wants to hear a big, Broadway belter whisper singing like a schoolgirl. Belt that shit out, Betty.

Actually R68 I'd expect them to go to at least the nominations, if not the awards, no matter what. What do you think the Best Musical nominees will be this year? Don't forget how winning the Tony turned Gentleman's Guide's financial future completely around after a lengthy period of struggle. Once they had the Tony, they recouped and made profit during the Broadway run, and then the tour recouped too. Memphis and Rock of Ages might also be considered examples of the virtue of weathering the struggle. It can happen.

Congrats to "The Band's Visit" for winning the cast album Grammy last night.

Betty sounded better a few years ago.

So who do we think will replace Betty? Don't say Donna Murphy because she's not going to leave her daughter.

Did anyone see THEY'RE PLAYING OUR SONG tonite? It sold out really fast and there's been very little coverage online. Lucie looks great.

Brie’s schedule might be free by then, R84. CAPTAIN MARVEL will be in theaters by then and she’ll have time on her hands.

The Prom won't make it to Tony Nomination Day, let alone the awards themselves.

Chris Sieber will be able to row back to his island and stay there.

[quote]My mother saw “All the Way Home” on Broadway and termed it “lugubrious.”

Always listen to your mother. They did “All the Way Home” on TV in the early 80s, as a live broadcast. Sally Field was the mother and William Hurt was the father who gets killed. It was definitely an “event,” the first live broadcast of a play in years, and I couldn’t believe how boring it was.

I need Aaron Tveit to sit on my face for at least an hour non-stop.

Rumors of a very unimpressive package, r89.

I posted above about Sondheim bluntly telling Buckley he didn't like the way she sang his songs because she took too many liberties with what he had written. I found the interview on sondheim.com where she talked about it.

"Will we be hearing much Sondheim material at your upcoming concert at the Carlyle?"

"Probably not. He doesn't like my arrangements and he let me know that when I was in London, which was heartbreaking because it was one of the biggest, one of the most shocking moments of my life. I'd sent him a couple of my CDs because we recorded a lot of his songs and he came backstage and congratulated me and I could tell that he seemed kind of uncomfortable and I said, "Mr. Sondheim, I sent you my CDs and you never responded." He said, "Well I wouldn't have brought it up but since you did, I'll tell you: I don't like what you've done with my songs." And I was just heartbroken. It was shattering to me. And he had some theories as to why I had arranged them that way and I said, "I honestly have been only inspired and only, completely...." I had no words to tell him how much I love his work. I can't even put it into language, how meaningful it is to me and how important his work has been for me."

"I remember one time, years ago, some critic in some magazine didn't speak about him in the sacred terms that I felt that they should. I called the magazine when I was a young actress and I spoke with the editor; I was just livid. And he said, "People have a right to write what they..." and I said, "No you don't. Stephen Sondheim is one of our greatest writers in theater and we need to honor him and revere him and how dare you, who do you think you are?" That's the kind of passion I feel about him. So when he said this to me backstage at Sunset Boulevard I was just awestruck; I couldn't believe it. I said, "I feel like this student and the work I've done with these songs was always true to your themes. I just took them as far in that direction as they would go." I thought my work was honoring his and he didn't see it that way. So I swore to him that I would be true to his intent from that moment on and he told me that that's the way he needed it to be. I've seen him in passing since then and he's always been kind. He's such a great artist and a wonderfully complicated person."

"Did you get any feedback from him on Gypsy?"

"Not really, he didn't have much to say about Gypsy."

"Have you then gone back to his songs and performed them the way he wants them done?"

"I did "Send in the Clowns" not long ago at a benefit and it was with the Broadway orchestration. The last time I was at Maxim's I sang a new repertoire. I sang "The Miller's Son" using the original Broadway chart but it was with a trio. Eventually I want to return to the idea of a series of those songs like "Joanna"."

The worst thing to happen to Betty was meeting jazz performer Kenny Werner. They recorded like 8 albums doing unlistenable jazz/scat albums where Betty fancied herself a jazz singer.

Sondheim’s criticism was the LEAST of her problems

I actually think Betty did a nice job with that "oak fell out of my bible" speech. It's the most serious moment of Dolly's in the show, and she was able to tap into that. But then she ruins it by crying, and when she says "Why Irene, you're crying!" she brings out a hanky and blows her nose and wipes her eyes. Yes. IRENE is crying. Dolly shouldn't be.

It's amazing the resemblance to Verdon vocally, especially in the second verse.

It's time the piano realized it didn't write the concerto.

R92, Scat??!

Scat is also a style of jazz singing popularized by people like Ella Fitzgerald, R95.

And me, R 96! Don't forget about my scatting. Ella's scatting may take the prize but I'm right behind her bringing up the rear!

I saw They’re Playing My Song last night. It was wonderful. Robert Klein was hilarious, and Lucie Arnaz and he have such wonderful chemistry together. It was a one-night only concert with little rehearsal, so it wasn’t polished and Klein was on book almost the whole time, but it was a great evening. When I was growing up far away from New York, I would watch the Tonys and dream of seeing a show on Broadway someday. They’re Playing My Song is the first Tony number I still remember vividly and helped spark my love for the theater, so it has special meaning for me. When the two of them started singing the title song, I almost had tears in my eyes because I never thought I would ever have a chance to see that number live with the two original stars. It brought me back to watching the living room TV when I was a kid. I literally waited forty years for this. I know, I know: MARY! But it was really great.

I'm happy for you, r98. They're Playing My Song was one of those shows I always regretted missing, not because I thought it would have been some exceptional theatrical event, but because I got to know the score from the cast album and it sounded like so much fun.

They're Playing our Song is one of the last musicals that relied on the personalities of the performers to make the show. The musical itself is pretty slight. Robert Klein and Lucy Arnaz were the show. It also takes a certain type of physical comedian to play the male role. I can't think of a straight man who has that talent (Nathan Lane, Our Miss Brooks, and Sean Hayes do, but...)

Eric McCormack (straight) would be perfect. Fat unattractive gays would not be.

Eric was often called "fat" on WILL & GRACE. Practically every episode a joke about his weight.

R102

That was the joke.

[quote]r92 Sondheim’s criticism was the LEAST of her problems

Sondheim sounds like a crotchety old aunt.

A song is like a garment - you can wear it any way you want.

Is your point that Eric McCormack is fat? So might as well cast someone obese in the role? You're an idiot.

I'm not R102, but the joke was that McCormack wasn't fat, but that Jack kept referring to him as such because there's a difference between "fat" and "gay fat."

The highlight of the All The Way Home live broadcast was when Ned Beatty accidentally called Sally Field 'Sally' instead of her character name. I remember waking up when I heard that.

Like The Producers, They're Playing Our Song was never the same after the original leads left. The replacements were fine (some were better than others). But Klein and Arnaz had a really magical chemistry despite the fact that they didn't get along offstage (they reconciled years ago). I would have given him the Tony over Len Cariou for Sweeney and I'll never understand why she wasn't nominated.

I saw They're Playing Our Song when it came through Chicago on your--the leads were played by Victor Garber and Ellen Greene. Garber sang it well, but his acting was a little stiff; Greene was perfection. It was a very enjoyable afternoon.

[quote][R102] That was the joke.

It was funnier when we did it.

An earlier TV version of All the Way Home with Richard Kiley and Joanne Woodward (Yep, I'm beyond elder gay) was really excellent and moving. Transport Group did a respectable production some years ago. It's a lovely, quiet play, but I'm not sure it's all that adaptable, much as I like A & F's work.

I see Diana Canova and Ted Wass were in They're Playing Our Song. Eldergays, did they have any chemistry?

Dreamgirls will never leave you.

[quote]She asked him if she could change one particular note that never felt right to her, and he agreed with her. So I think they're fine.

What are you talking about? Buckley changes several notes in "Meadowlark" in terms of the pitches, and even more in terms of the note values. And NOT for the better.

Lucie got Mama's legs....

[quote]Scat is also a style of jazz singing popularized by people like Ella Fitzgerald,

I used to have a friend who said, "I love to scat. I sing, too."

I had forgotten how oddly mannered Robert Klein was singing the title song in that clip. I saw Klein and Arnaz in the original and found it entertaining enough, but as someone noted earlier, very slight.

R116 what happened to him?

[quote]what happened to him?

He's now a high functioning alcoholic who lives in Florida and tries to pick up 20-something guys at gay bars. He's 58 years old.

[quote] He's 58 years old.

Is he a DL-er? Because that would mean he looks 20 years younger.

"The Prom" is definitely holding on till Tony time. (They have the reserves in place.) And they should. They're by far the best thing going on Broadway, and it's looking like their only competition for Best Musical will be Hadestown and maybe, maybe Tootsie. That Temptations musical was beloved out of town, but Broadway is feeling overwhelmed by mediocre jukebox musicals at the moment, so it better be excellent.

[quote] What a shame the other thread had the wrong number, because this title is the worst yet. What is it even supposed to mean?

Don't blame me if you don't pay attention to the posts in the threads. Burnett has been particularly raked over the coals the past few threads, for everything from Moon Over Buffalo to J. Edgar Who-WOO-zis. But the past three OPs have been moaned about even more. It means all you bitchy fags do is whine and complain.

R122 Never OP again, you stink

Fuck you, I've OP'ed a bunch of times (but not recently) and have never had complaints. This was a rush job to get the proper number put into place so you all wouldn't keep fucking it up. You ought to bend down and kiss my foot. While you're on the way up, kiss my ass next.

R124 Gee, thanks Dad, you are so not a cunt

Ohh, "believed nobody." By all means yes, you should be the exclusive OP from here on in. Original wit like that is being wasted if it can't have a home to flourish.

Girls, girls....

She started it!

Don't make me get the belt.

[quote]She started it!

And you end it!

[quote]Don't make me get the belt.

That's considered a pleasure, not a punishment, on DataLounge.

R117, that "oddly mannered" quality is what made the performance work. The sheer uninhibited energy of both performances are not something that the university trained performers of today are capable or.

[quote] While you're on the way up, kiss my ass next.

Yeah, that's gonna require a pic.

Please.

Heck, does it really matter what the title is?

The pleasure we get lies in the theatre threads themselves, as we gossip and sound off on our opinions and bring up our memes-- Follies, Gypsy, Bajour, all the greats--and generally do what smart urban gays do.

I think the theatre OPs should always get credit just for putting themselves out there. But, again, the title doesn't matter: the content of the thread does.

[quote]But, again, the title doesn't matter: the content of the thread does.

We are obviously doomed.

Moving on....

Coffee and, Andy!

[quote]R117, that "oddly mannered" quality is what made the performance work.

As the French say, à chacun son goût.

I want to know why the fuck no one gets pissed off at the troll who posts random links that no one is going to follow just to fill up a thread that did not need to be killed off. I don't know WHY the last thread needed to be rushed to end by over 50 zero content posts by the same poster. But to me that is the real problem here, not OP.

I've never seen a live production of They're Playing Our Song, but I love the album and wonder why it's never been revived. Is the book that bad? Isn't it Neil Simon?

It's been many years since I saw it, obviously, but the glib book, based on the rocky romance of Marvin Hamlisch and by Carole Bayer Sager, just wasn't very interesting or even very funny. Yes, Neil Simon wrote it.

I think it was an example of a hit at the time but too lightweight for a major revival....like Day in Hollywood.

Reunited.

R140 It's just kind of eh. The original production rode on the charm of the two leads. The biggest problem, I think, is that it's not really a musical, not really a play and kind of thin soup all around.

There are some thick waists in that photo at r143, least of all Robert Klein's.

Lucie's dress seems ill-considered.

They're Playing Our Song is really a two person show. Nobody likes two person shows.

[quote]Lucie's dress seems ill-considered.

Laurence should have talked her out of it.

With today's crop of boring leading men and women, I doubt it would work. Like others have said, this seemed to be one of the last real star vehicles where the actors made it special, not the directing or the script. Most of today's actors would sink right along with the script if it was terrible. I remember seeing so many great performances in crappy shows over the years and thinking "wow! I don't know how (insert actor name here) got out of this piece of shit unscathed, but they were giving their all and were incredibly watchable the entire time." These days, if I see a show with a bad script or a bad directorial concept, almost all of the actors come out of it looking equally as inept. They can't rise about the terrible material.

High-waisted was a bad move.

[quote]I remember seeing so many great performances in crappy shows over the years

Me too. I would go out of the theater thinking I had seen something great and then I would buy the album or read the script and think, "What was so great about this?"

The effect of Universities has been noted, but directors are also a problem. They really have a problem with comic actors being creative. It showed on the original Will and Grace. I see this often. Actors will come up with hysterical business during rehearsals and the director will cut it, because it isn't his/her work.

Really? Do a lot of directors do that? Because that's kinda shitty. Talk about a horrible work environment for the actors. That would make me phone in a performance, too. Granted, if an actor is mugging and distracting from another person's performance who's supposed to be in the spotlight at that moment, I get it, but....

[quote]The effect of Universities has been noted, but directors are also a problem. They really have a problem with comic actors being creative.

Definitely. And yes, it starts in acting school. I took acting classes in NYC. I'm a character actor. There's no way I would be playing Romeo or any of the leading man type roles. And yet, acting class after acting class didn't know what to do with me. If I tried some of the "Nathan Lane shtick" they'd tell me I was mugging. I could land the Neil Simon jokes easily and yet I was only assigned one Felix Unger scene. The industry has killed character actors and the second banana roles.

I do wonder what would happen if a naturally talented actor who didn't study at any of these universities and had the quirks pulled out of them could be successful on Broadway these days? What would happen if a Carol Channing type showed up at the audition - hilarious, interesting, and oozing star power, but might possessing the tap skills or the high belt required by every bland, mediocre university graduate clogging up the boards these days.

Now the supporting roles are considered second leads by many.

R154 is so right! I have an actor friend who's very striking. He's tall-ish, has an excellent body, quirky (but attractive) face and can act and sing his ass off. He's no dancer, but he's someone your eyes just gravitate to when he's on stage. He has this phenomenal, loud, powerful baritone voice like a classic male musical theatre star and yet he's still getting zero breaks. I don't get it. He easily has way more talent and is far more interesting than most of the people on Broadway these days, but nada! He's always on time, easy to work with, personable, etc. Makes zero sense. If he'd come around in the 50's or 60's, I think they would have known what to do with him.

Baritones are dead these days unless it's a revival of a pre-90's show. Sopranos have a little bit more to do, but they're underused as well. It's all about the nasal high tenor rock voices for the guys and shrieky mixy belts for the women. I, for one, am fucking sick of it. I feel like Broadway has been taken over by a bunch of Stepford clones.

THE PROM is hanging on until the Tonys. Right now they're focused on getting voters to see the show. An earlier poster is correct: the way the show was initially marketed failed to catch on with DEH/Be More Chill/Mean Girls demographics. Their social media presence is dull, dull, dull especially when compared with those aforementioned shows. The younger cast members (who have been busy auditioning) put out far more interesting content than the show's official social media accounts, which is kind of embarrassing.

The show had an uphill battle because it's an original musical with no "names," but the lackluster title and initial unfocused, uninspired marketing certainly didn't help. I hope they turn things around because it's certainly better than Be More Chill and Beetlejuice and I'd like to see vets like Sieber, Leavel, and Ashmanskas prove that a show can succeed without a celebrities that have a fraction of their talent. That's how it should be, IMO.

R157 Quirky goes for leading character or character guys, and shorter ones, not traditional tall leading men, usually.

R155 a naturally talented actor without the pedigree would be very unlikely to make it to Broadway. Today the vast majority come out of "the schools," to such a degree that if you don't get into one of the schools it's a good idea to major in something else or double major.

Ethel Merman, let alone Carol Channing, would have a hard time getting cast nowadays if she was just starting out. Mary Martin, if she went to one of those schools, would have been belittled for all the quirkiness that made her a star.

To be fair, Mary Martin wouldn’t be a star today because even at 25, she looked 50, was diagnosed with stage 4 cane face from the get go, and had the sex appeal of a boiled potato.

^^^ Ethel Merman

I think if Gwen Verdon hadn't happened, there wouldn't be a generation of Broadway dancers who sounded like her after she had been smoking for years. Ann Reinking, for one, wouldn't have had a model.

"and had the sex appeal of a boiled potato."

Arguable. But what is indisputable, as was the case with every major musical theater star, is they had CHARM. Of course, unlike today, roles were written to exploit that factor (the academic "charm song," as a case in point) but one way or another they brought it to the table.

[quote]a naturally talented actor without the pedigree would be very unlikely to make it to Broadway. Today the vast majority come out of "the schools," to such a degree that if you don't get into one of the schools it's a good idea to major in something else or double major.

Can't the same also be said of playwrights? Don't most of the writers who get produced come out of NYU, Columbia, etc.? Unfortunately, it often seems talent has far less to do with whose work gets financed than who has the right connections.

Is that really true of playwrights, r187?

R165 what I find creepy about Reinking sounding like Verdon is their connection to Fosse. Verdon was married to Fosse to the end (though they apparently lived separate lives) and Reinking was the other woman for a time.

[quote]I've never seen a live production of They're Playing Our Song

I saw the LA Reprise version with Jason Alexander and Stephanie J. Block. It was enjoyable, but certainly not spectacular or memorable in any way.

[quote] I'll never understand why she wasn't nominated.

Delayed payback for "Wildcat!"

Or for "Here's Lucy."

I saw the original cast of "They're Playing Our Song"; it was a lot of fun. The best number was the title song, and Lucie and Klein had a few other cute songs. The book had some funny lines, but just felt like a lot of padding, especially with lots of mentions of some friend or ex-lover of Lucie's character named Leon, who is never seen. Otherwise the staging was fun, with 3 men and 3 women popping out of closets or whatnot who would sing backup, usually on stage, during some of the numbers. It was a charming show, but would have been thought about something along the lines of quality o "Bajour" had it been produced in the 60s. Fun production, some great number, good cast, though "Bajour" had a much larger cast. This was produced not too long after the idea of "smaller is better" for the producer's pocket book and comedies like "Same Time, Next Year" with a cast of 2 were being produced.

Has anyone else seen SUPERHERO at 2econd Stage?

I really enjoyed it. The score is good, not remarkable, but I liked it better than NEXT TO NORMAL. Kate Baldwin and Bryce Pinkham are excellent, and young Kyle McArthur is terrific. (We saw him after the show, chowing down at Five Napkin, and resisted the urge to rush over and fawn over him).

It's nice to see a completely original musical

Haven't seen Superhero but the show was thoroughly bashed on ATC, FWIW.

And what's the word on the new Paper Mill musical My Very Own British Invasion (or something like that). Yet another Jerry Mitchell crapfest? Haven't heard a word on this one.

[quote]r134 Heck, does it really matter what the title is?

Some of us LIVE for the clever thread titles.

And now it's ruined ... [italic]ruined![/italic]

Again.

[quote]r163 To be fair, Mary Martin wouldn’t be a star today because even at 25, she looked 50, was diagnosed with stage 4 cane face from the get go, and had the sex appeal of a boiled potato.

[quote]r166 Arguable. But what is indisputable, as was the case with every major musical theater star, is they had CHARM.

Interestingly, Mary Martin was one of the only stars Edith Head (whose real strength was her diplomacy) didn't like working with. She also didn't care for Claudette Colbert or Hedy Lamarr. And, she thought Paulette Goddard was insensitive toward the workroom staff.

Mary sounds like a real cunt. Sudden fame can do that.

[quote]Heck, does it really matter what the title is?

Go to the archives and check out some of the threads up till about #250. Some of 5hem have ordinary titles, a few are stinkers, but there are a LOT that have genuine wit like we haven’t seen in ages. And for a little by whioe, writing a clever opening post was part of the deal, too.

Look for it only in online archives, for it is no more than a dream remembered, a civilization gone with the wind...

Did you actually read Edith Head's article, r178? She seems to me to have had great admiration for and empathy with Mary Martin.

The fact that The Prom has a chance at a Tony demonstrates the demise of the Broadway musical.

"The Prom" is such a generic, uninspired title.

The show makes the title look brilliant.

I suppose they could have spiffed it up and called it Promenade, r183.....

The Prom should have made more of the old school Broadway Stars rather than the kids when they had the national network exposure. People love ham.

R186 Seems they took that advice for last night on Seth Meyers

[quote]Look for it only in online archives, for it is no more than a dream remembered, a civilization gone with the wind...

R180, I love you.

[quote]"The Prom" is such a generic, uninspired title.

Sadly, I agree that the title is part of the reason why the show has not caught fire at the box office. But I'm at a loss to suggest what it should have been called instead. Thoughts? (I'll probably regret asking.)

The Return of the Prom Queens - Revenge BeeBop-Boogalo Babadook?

That sound you hear is the screams of a thousand tween girls as Charlie Carver forcefully rips their hopes and dreams away from them.

Wasn't there a Disney teen rom-com a few yeas back called THE PROM? Some people probably think it's a musicalization of that.

R190 what does Charlie Carver have to do with Ben Platt?

Probably as little as possible, r192.

R193 Unless he is paid....

In the video, Platt and Carver are a couple. Is this Platt's coming out party?

R195 He has always been out

I thought Ben Platt was so adorable in PITCH PERFECT when I watched it in 2012. I loved Benji!

But in real life Platt seems to have a major ego which is a turn-off. I didn't like after Ansel Elgort was announced as Tony in the upcoming WSS remake, Platt posted his audition video o his social media, which caused his fans to make some noise about Elgort's 'unfair' casting or whatever. Bad sporsmanship.

R197 Ansel has a huge head and cannot sing the part. But then Ben is fat and looks like a peasant

R198 why do you think he can't sing the part?

[quote]But then Ben is fat and looks like a peasant

Did you mean pheasant? Like the bird?

R199 Because I have heard him sing

R200 No like a Polish Peasant picking Potatoes

[quote]like a Polish Peasant picking Potatoes

LOL

Are enjoyable, if lightweight, shows like They're Playing Our Song (which I've never seen) and A Day in Hollywood (which I adored) ever done at regional theatres and festivals? Those companies are often loaded with charming and/or character actors who could carry those shows.

In the people magazine interview, he says he’s been out since he was 12. Interestingly he has won a Tony, Emmy and Grammy. If he gets the Oscar is he first gay EGOT?

R203, from my experience as a director, no. They all want to do big musicals that they do not have the resources for, rather than doing a smaller musical that are within their capabilities.

R204 Who?

I heard Ben Platt's audition tape for WSS--I'm sure everyone did--and he was terrible. I don't know anything about Elgort except that he looks like he needs a good smack, but I'm pretty confident this movie's going to suck.

Ansel sounds pretty good here.

Mary Martin turned down Oklahoma, My Fair Lady and Kiss Me Kate. More diverse roles than Channing or Merman were offered.

But Martin was totally wrong for Bankhead's role in The Skin of Our Teeth, which also starred Helen Hayes, Don Murray and George Aboutt

R197 The audition video in which his eyes are closed most of the time, which I thought was one of the most basic don'ts as an actor. He's just so uncomfortable to watch, nothing ever seems natural. It was even worse with DEH when he was adding all the tics, as if he was performing a 50s stereotype of someone with mental illness.

R204 And wouldn't that be depressing? Though let's remember his Emmy is a Daytime Emmy for best music performance on a daytime chat show. And nope, I'm not making that up, that really is an award

Aurora Spiderwoman is back

Sorry to bring Patti’s old video here again but here’s Perfect Year from SB with Kevin Anderson with much clearer quality

Oh hooray! I'm glad Aurora is back!! Woohoo!

The Prom should have been titled" Everybody Loves Lesbos."

There's an Angie Dickinson character in THE PROM? (Just went to Wikipedia to see the list of characters in hopes of finding a better title.)

Give My Regards To Indiana

A review of "All About Eve."

"No like a Polish Peasant picking Potatoes"

Hey, co kiedykolwiek ci zrobiłem???

"Polish peasant picking potatoes" -- love the alliteration!

Pretty good review. I wish I could see it.

Not me. The same dreary video projections, played out over and over again. If he wants to make a movie, then make a movie already, and stop cluttering up stages with nonsense.

[quote]Mary Martin turned down Oklahoma, My Fair Lady and Kiss Me Kate. More diverse roles than Channing or Merman were offered.

She turned them down, so what does it matter? The projects she chose were solidly in her wheelhouse. Mary was limited on acting talent but had unlimited charm and star quality.

I am seeing it next week. I cannot wait.

Please post your impressions, r224.

[quote]Sadly, I agree that the title (“The Prom”) is part of the reason why the show has not caught fire at the box office. But I'm at a loss to suggest what it should have been called instead. Thoughts? (I'll probably regret asking.)

“Carrie”

[quote]The Prom should have been titled" Everybody Loves Lesbos."

Would a show set on a Greek island recoup?

[quote]No like a Polish Peasant picking Potatoes

Well Tony IS Polish, right?

He's a Polack.

I miss reading liner notes. Anybody with me?

The ones in the gate fold jacket?

R231 I had to google that, but yes.

These are a few song titles from The Prom. I think any one of them would have made a better title for the show:

Just Breathe

Dance With You

You Happened

Tonight Belongs to You

Unruly Heart

It's Time to Dance

Actually, they're all pretty generic titles but they're all a whole lot more engaging than The Prom.

Ooh, I like “Unruly Heart.”

The Prom.

It sounds like they just gave up.

The problems with The Prom go welllll beyond the title...

I think the first performance of Alan Cumming's new play, "Daddy," was tonight at the Signature. Did anyone here attend? I see it on Friday night. Looking forward to it.

Ben Brantley's review of All About Eve is the harshest he's written in my memory, certainly insuring it will not come to New York. Ironic, in that Brantley's raves of von Hove's earlier commercial endeavors made him a Broadway contender.

Maybe, and hopefully, that will change now.

R238 I fucking hate IvanHoe and his fucking dreadful adaptations. His Hedda Gobbler gave me herpes. And anyone who makes Mark Strong unsexy is an unmitigated wanker

Here is the aforementioned 'All About Eve' review, which I am helping R238 by posting when he didn't, presumably because he is on his phone,

R240 what do you mean 'presumably'?

Jeez. That is one bad review.

I too like UNRULY HEART. Intriguing title.

Anyone see Follies with the new-ish cast yet?

It's not the original so most of the queens who keep this show's memory alive will hate it no matter what.

I saw the Point Park College production. I lot of spray Streaks 'n Tips.

A lot.

from NTT review at r242 :

[quote]Ms. Anderson, a perennially witty and adventurous actress, was a smashing Blanche in Benedict Andrews’ deconstructed “A Streetcar Named Desire.” Her Margo, with her languid speech and wilting posture, suggests Blanche in that play’s final scenes, already defeated and depleted.

I'm at least happy Anderson is getting classy stage work and TV series now ... she banked her money from THE X FILES (a show I don't think she even liked doing very much) and now can coast between projects that interest her.

She was superb in THE HOUSE OF MIRTH

^^ sorry [bold]NYT review[/bold] (as in [italic] New York Times)

Laura Linney being her bitchy self to poor Gillian in THE HOUSE OF MIRTH -

anyone see this article on DL arch nemesis LMM?

someone mentioned in the last thread lady gaga as movie elphaba. i don't like her but that's great casting. same with Ariana Grande as Audrey.

Audrey who?

Debi Wings as Dolly!

Thanks, r251. The comparisons to Sondheim must sting. I wonder what he really thinks of LMM.

Those poems are terrible! Trite musings you'd find on cheesy Hallmark cards.

“Look at you!

The miracle of you, the thrill of you

becoming who you’ll be!”

Anderson was also great in BLEAK HOUSE.

Lin’s problem is he has an insatiable need to be a star at all cost. He’s the annoying neighbor kid who forces all the adults at the dinner party to watch his one-man plays in the living room.

exactly, r258.

Now, I call this pointless bitchery:

article @ r251

[quote]It’s as if Stephen Sondheim followed up West Side Story by doing guest shots on The Flying Nun while contributing a few songs to The Aristocats.

hahahahahahahahahahaha

R258 LOL! Lin did that as a kid? Why am I not surprised?

Did anyone see Kiss Me Kate at the Crucible Theatre?

Anderson's vocal affect was sooooo irritating in Streercar.

Oh, how embarrassing. I was the kid who forced the grownups to watch his plays in the living room. They were puppet shows, in an elaborate toy theatre (Pollock's) from Britain. The characters were cut out of a book that also had the scenery. It was like the "penny plain, tuppence colored" of Victorian times. They came in books.

I had the Laurence Olivier Hamlet, I remember. And there were some (original) musicals. My cousin Elliot always heckled me, and one time I threw a vase at him, and that was the end of my theatrical career.

R265 just because you threw a vase?

R265, I also had the Pollacks paper theaters. I loved blowing up the mill for Miller and His Men. I had an old set that had electric footlights.

R266: It broke. And hurt Elliott.

R267: Mine was partly wood and plastic, quite elaborate, but I didn't know they came with footlights. Did you get any of the books they used to make using the scenery and characters from existing productions, like the Hamlet movie?

I've looked for them on eBay, with no luck. It was when my parents took me to Europe the first time. We bought the theatre and the accessories in Stratford-on-Avon.

I wonder if they made also a book for the Olivier Henry V (or whatever the number is; I never remember) movie. They used to show it to us every other year at school.

R256 I know. I can't believe the article says writing is his strong point! haha. At least the article did say his acting was okay and his singing so so. That's being very generous but also the first time I read someone publicly acknowledge even that level of talent from him. Not the usual "he's God's gift" "a national treasure" which really makes me laugh. The man is crap, bottom of the cast lower than community theatre tier talent. R253 Audrey in "little shop".

Kevin Hart as Seymour!

Chrissy Metz as Audrey!

Sandra Oh as Audrey II!

Pete Davidson as Mr. Mushnick!

Lena Dunham, Alison Williams and Zosia Mamet as Crystal, Chiffon and Ronette!

r262, I don't think r258 meant that LMM actually did that as a kid--only that he's the type of person who would have done it.

The lack of reading comprehension on the DL is really alarming.

r270 pete davidson as Seymour! Can you imagine the ratings?!

r261: Howard and Janet Kagan. Oh dear! Poor babies.

I've been to a party in their mansion which is directly across the street from the Metropolitan Museum of Art (in case you ever wondered who lived in those buildings. Though the exterior of the building is Beaux Arts, the interiors are all extremely sleek and modern minimalism with an amazing contemporary art collection that I'm sure is worth millions in itself.

I guess they're out of the Broadway scene now. Sad, in a way, as their hearts (and pocket book) were in the right place, even if their blunders and wrong-headed decisions insulted most everyone they come into contact with.

[quote]even if their blunders and wrong-headed decisions insulted most everyone they come into contact with.

Could you elaborate?

I haven't a clue who these Kagans are.

I think that "A Day In Hollywood/A Night In The Ukraine" could have a decent run in one of the small off-Broadway theaters. It's a cute show, although it really needs a good cast.

Sondheim himself said that his work would be forgotten in 50 years and drew the comparison to Gilbert and Sullivan who were musical Gods in their day but are not often performed today. His biggest shows remain WSS and Gypsy and ITW brings in some nice change because it's easily staged and accessible to lots of audiences.

LMM is grabbing the money while he can. I honestly think Sondheim would have done the same thing if he could go back.

R277 in time, you mean?

I don't think he'd do anything of the kind, r277, and I can't imagine why you think so.

"I honestly think Sondheim would have done the same thing if he could go back."

It's not like Sondheim was hurting after WSS, GYPSY, FORUM. He even dabbled in television! But the man was who he was from the start, and when he came on the scene 60 years ago, Broadway really didn’t know what to do with him. If it weren't for his friendship and like-minded collaboration with Prince, it's unlikely he would have had the subsequent career that he did post-Do I Hear A Waltz? Or maybe he would have---after all, talent will out. That said, could you imagine what would happen if he appeared today? He wouldn’t have a career. Broadway no longer tolerates or has a need for writers with passion, personality, profile and purpose. Or singular talent. The Broadway musical of today cultivates the safe, the familiar, the homogenized, mundane and unremarkable.

I also had a paper theatre, r265 and r267, but not from Pollock's (my parents wouldn't have known the difference between the toy shop and the fish). I've also tried to find it online without success. It was designed for marionettes but I only had hand puppets which I used to act out stories, including a variant on THE WIZARD OF OZ that my mother wrote and I performed for nursery schools, etc at the tender age of 10.

LMM has consistently praised Sondheim as the theater's greatest lyricist, and rather pointedly not extending the compliment to Sondheim as a composer. I wonder if he thinks he's the more talented composer.

Once the rights to Hamilton are sold to moves, it's possible LMM's performing gigs will start to lessen. I think that article is the first I've seen in print that even says his acting and singing are just ok (and it's really substandard).

"the movies"

R281 I think many people share that same sentiment. Sondheim is a poet, no doubt, but his music often leaves a lot to be desired, IMO.

Lin's in an interesting position. The longer he waits, the more valuable the rights are ... UNTIL he waits too long. Who will blink first -- himself or Hollywood?

This always surprises me, r284, but that's what makes a horse race.

R285 "Rent" was in a similar position years ago, but the film tanked, and the recent tv version was a fiasco.

Probably the biggest hit of Sondheim's show where he did music and lyrics, is "A Little Night Music", perhaps "Sweeney Todd" and also "Forum", but those didn't run for years like the mega-hits like "Phantom" and "Chicago" today. A lot of Sondheim's shows were of the success d'estime variety (i.e. they won awards, appealed to the intelligentsia, are talked about by those who love musicals, but don't run that long).

"but his music often leaves a lot to be desired, IMO."

That sounds like received opinion, and not a very discerning one at that.

If the melodic, harmonic and rhythmic bounty of his output (let alone their theatrical effectiveness) leave a lot to be desired, then Jesus Christ himself couldn't write a better score.

"Night Music" is probably the most accessible, along with "Forum."

It's true that he had no long runs or megahits, but all his stuff is done constantly, all over the world.

And, as r289 just wrote, "Jesus Christ himself couldn't write a better score."

[quote] I loved blowing up the mill for Miller and His Men.

I loved blowing Miller and His Men.

R290 Cole Porter, and Irving Berlin could.

A better score? Porter wrote great melodies, not invariably great lyrics. Ditto Berlin. In any case, neither of them was attempting to do what Sondheim was, which was to compose for particular characters in a specific dramatic circumstance. I'm not sure they're really comparable.

I'd give you G. Gershwin for composing (and so would Sondheim, I'll bet) but never Ira for lyrics.

LMM’s In the Heights film begins shooting this summer. Pretty much exactly the same time West Side Story begins shooting. That will be interesting.

Oh, Rodgers and Hart were pretty terrific, though Sondheim sometimes apparently has dissed Hart. Hart's lyrics were among the smartest, wittiest ever.

I cringe every time I think about the WSS remake.

I love Rodgers and Hart, but again, they didn't do what Sondheim's done. Really, no one had until he did. Comparisons of their scores are hard to make.

And Hart did write smart, funny lyrics. However, he also wrote : "Lover, when I'm near you and I hear you speak my name. Softly in my ear you breathe a flame." That must smart.

If Sondheim said that about Gilbert and Sullivan, he's wrong. Their shows are still done all over the place with some slight regularity after 150 years!

Further, they can be done, if one wants, exactly as they were written, whereas shows just two generations out of date usually need some book revision. Sondheim's don't--but that just strengthens the comparison between the two oeuvres. Sondheim will last as G and S have lasted.

I would agree that the Sondheim shows can be done "as is," but we've recently seen (or at least heard) how some of them have had a whole new life with some major or minor tinkering to the book. His music and lyrics, however, are pretty timeless.

R297 Those were lyrics written after the original song appeared in the film "Love Me Tonight" where Jeanette MacDonald is riding a horse, which were very clever and written to make jokes referring to the horse.

Seriously? That's too funny and I had no idea.

[quote]His music and lyrics, however, are pretty timeless.

Yes, Sondheim's lyrics ARE timeless.

"I got through Brenda Frazier and I'm here"

"I could understand a person, if a person was a fag"

Grabbing the money while he can is probably the smartest thing to do for LMM. His talent is not the kind to stand the test of time. haha. In fact, it leaves much NOT to be desired.

Very clever, r302.

LMM must be a millionaire many times over from Hamilton and In the Heights. If he spent the rest of his life trying for quality, he'd never run short of money.

[quote]"I could understand a person, if a person was a fag"

What's dated about that lyric? People still speak like that.

[quote]What's dated about that lyric? People still speak like that.

Only Brits when they are talking about a cigarette. And I hear that as a condition of Brexit, Angela Merkel is denying the Brits the use of the word just to be spiteful.

Well, I guess Sondheim agreed it was dated since he tweaked the lyric several years ago. Something like "I could understand a person, if [s]he said to go away; I could understand a person if he actually was gay."

In 50 years "gay" may be archaic.

He didn't switch it because it was dated, but because people are more offended now. Many people still say 'fag' to refer to a gay person.

Fair enough, r308.

[quote]In 50 years "gay" may be archaic.

I could understand a person, if a person was a LGBQTQ

I could understand a person/If wasn’t too up front/I could understand a person/If he was a fucking cunt

There. That'll never go out of date.

Catchy, r311.

"I could understand a person, if the person was ... a drag"

I could understand a person / If a person wore a hat / I could understand a person / If a person was... gay

[quote]Hart's lyrics were among the smartest, wittiest ever.

I'd put Harburg and Porter up there as well.

Agree on Harburg, would add Sheldon Harnick.

I could understand a person / If a person wasn't whites / I could understand a person / If a person liked In The Heights

The H show skirts over slavery more than [italic]Song of the South[/italic], making it all the more appropriate to be cast in a disappointing sequel to its worst (but most ubiquitous) ripoff.

And now the Professor with some rather witty lyrics.....

Hercules Mulligan being played by a black man robs us of the story Cato, who was actually black Hercules' slave and a major spy and secret courier during the revolution.

in the 9 years from 1970-1979, Sondheim premiered Company, Follies, A Little Night Music, Pacific Overtures, and Sweeney Todd.

In the 7 years from 2008-2015, LMM premiered In the Heights, part of Bring It On, and Hamilton.

Different leagues.

[quote]The H show skirts over slavery more than Song of the South

Song of the South takes place during Reconstruction.

Martin also turned down Dolly and wasn't she considered for Funny Girl? Was Mame offered to her?

Some of Sonheim's work crossed over into the mainstream.

"Everything's Coming Up Roses" became a catchphrase

Send In The Clowns was covered by several artists. It was sang to death on variety shows until "What I Did For Love" came along

No One Is Alone and Nothing's Gonna Harm You had a life outside of the theater world

re r321: Yes, and in his spare time, Sondheim composed the score for Stavisky, wrote additional lyrics for Candide, and wrote music and lyrics for the Yale premier of The Frogs. I guess he didn't have time to tap dance in a movie or scamper about looking cute.

He even guest starred on [italic]The Simpsons[/italic] long after it was past his prime.

R326 who did?

Stephen Sondheim.

Never forget that he did nothing to stop this:

[bold]#NeverForgetNeverForgive

R329 that was cute.

Lionel Bart also let them use "Food Glorious Food" to become "Cheese Glorious Cheese" since he probably did need the money.

R332 was he poor?

Apparently most of the money from [italic]Oliver![/italic]'s original London and Broadway casts and the movie went to others.

Yes, Martin turned down Dolly and Mame. She turned down Dolly to do Jenny which flopped. Merman turned down Dolly because she was coming off of nearly three years of doing Gypsy (Broadway and then the national tour) and she wanted a long rest. Both Martin and Anne Bancroft were in early talks for Funny Girl but after Styne heard Streisand sing in a club, he convinced the other creatives and the producers to go with her. Funny Girl would have been a very different show if it had been tailored for Martin or Bancroft instead Streisand.

Anyone who can understands music on anything but a consumer level knows that LMM writes at an extremely basic, unsophisticated level. The melodies, harmonies, and songs simply do not develop. They make 32 bar AABA songs seem the height of innovation.

Adding to that, how much of Hamilton and In the Heights did Alex Lacamoies create? I enjoyed Hamilton, but the staging and choreography seemed far more impressive than the book and score. The most I could say about LMM’s “acting” is that he was very enthusiastic.

[quote]I enjoyed Hamilton, but the staging and choreography seemed far more impressive than the book and score.

And that's why it's going to be as embarrassing in 20 years as [italic]Rent[/italic] is now.

I expect Alex Lacamoire is the real creative talent on the LMM shows.

Sondheim frequently talks about the importance of a good/musically sophisticated orchestrator--and he's musically sophisticated himself.

The comparison of anyone contemporary to Sondheim is ludicrous in every possible way. I believe Sondheim's position in musical theater will come to be (if it isn't already) considered analogous to Wagner's in opera: a polemicist who argued the seriousness of his craft and introduced radical innovations into the genre in terms of subject matter, form, the function of song, etc. not to mention the note-to-note, word-to-word excellence, the sheer BEAUTY of the writing (when's the last time THAT could be said of a Broadway score?) in show after show . The major difference between them is that Wagner essentially worked alone in an elitist art form while Sondheim collaborated in a populist entertainment. Of course he stood on the shoulders of giants before him (Kern, Gershwin, R&H, Weill, Bernstein, the classical canon) but he carved his own path and personal style (again, like Wagner, so overwhelming and singular it influenced a whole generation of wanna-bes). Of course in an age when everything is dumbed-down to the lowest rung of pop culture, rarified work like his may always be caviar to the general public. That said, when HAIR opened, everybody said that it knocked down the door, burned down the house, was a game-changer, blahblahblah. That is, until Company opened a mere two years later, and, except for anomalies like Pippin and JCS, nobody gave a rat's ass about pop-rock anymore. Sondheim, Prince and sophisticated musical theater dominated Broadway for the next decade until the advent of the Euro-trash musical. I'd like to believe history will repeat itself, no matter how naïve or unrealistic that may seem.

As my grandmother used to say, the pendulum always swings back.

The 1970s was the last decade before the qualifications for adulthood started to become lower and lower.

I agree with every word, r340.

Michael Jackson shenanigans going on. Cancelling out of town and not telling cast. I wonder if they're freaking out over the HBO doc?

They probably should be freaking out.

Has the Jackson family's luck finally run out?

What's HBO doc?

[italic]Leaving Neverland[/italic], about Wade Robson and James Safechuck admitting they committed perjury.

R337 You mean like how in "Breathe" from IN THE HEIGHTS the lyrics go:

"And what will my parents SAY? How can I go in there and SAY, I know that I'm letting you down. Just Breathe..."

It's like, did you even try? haha.

I once rhymed go with go.

That makes you at least as good as John Lennon, who rhymed "one" with "one."

R340 speaks the truth.

R349 He should've kept that rhyming dictionary

I have an old tape of Martin talking about the shows she turned down.

She included Mame, but not Funny Girl and Hello Dolly.

R354 perhaps she didn't remember or got confused.

I can't begin to imagine Mary Martin as Mame, much less Dolly or Fanny.

[quote]I can't begin to imagine Mary Martin as Mame

How come?

[quote]I can't begin to imagine Mary Martin as Mame, much less Dolly or Fanny.

You aren't aware she led the short first national tour of Dolly, which was then renamed The International Tour and and played Japan and then did a sit down at the Drury Lane as the original London cast, which was recorded? The Company was also supposed to play Russia bu t it was the height of the Cold War and the invitation to play there was rescinded. She was a fabulous Dolly.

Enjoy the below NBC documentary "Dolly Around the World" which was broadcast in primetime. 50 minutes, color, lots of clips from the show.

I can't see her projecting sophistication and sex appeal.

Thanks for the clip. I've watched a bit and I can't see her as Dolly despite having just seen her as Dolly.

Chacun a son gout.

^ Japan and Vietnam at the height of the war I meant to write. Vietnam for the troops was substituted for the Russian stop. Sometimes they played so close to fighting they couldn't use the sets and gunfire could be heard in the distance. The troops loved it! Watch the documentary, it's great.

[quote]They came in books.

That must have left some very sticky pages.

She played Venus rather successfully, r359.

Not doubting this, r363. Just not my cup of tea. She always looked to me like a clenched fist.

She always reminded me of Madame.

Yes, that too, r365.

Mary was quite sophisticated in private..

But, she should not have gone to Vietnam with a large Hello Dolly cast during a war. LBJ asked her to go to Vietnam, and Mary was too impressed by presidents and the British royal family . I spent a year in Vietnam a few years later; a touring Broadway show was crazy idea .

Was Mary Martin White and Female enough to play Michael Jackson?

I loved A Day in Hollywood/A Night in the Ukraine and Priscilla Lopez really deserved that Tony. I can't imagine reviving it without using Tommy Tune's original staging. I'm normally a 'quiet laugher' when I go to the movies and theatre but that second act had me roaring. It's the kind of show Encores or the Roundabout should be doing. Did we really need yet another production of Kiss Me Kate?

Mary Martin was a short, tiny woman, who knew how to get along with Merman - by deferring to Ethel. luckily, they were not together often

Mary and Ethel weren't together much -- other than their 1953 duet, their 1970s one-night benefit, being called the queens of musicals and being referred to in the song "Drop That Name" in "Bells Are Ringing", that's about it. Mary spent more actual time with Carol Channing doing "Legends". Of course, Carol knew her lines. The video that surfaces occasionally show that Carol was really quite good in it as well.

I've always thought that Claudette Colbert and Mary Martin had similar looks. Yet only one became an Oscar-winning movie star.

And I thought of Colbert as sexy and feminine--Martin just the opposite.

I don't think I'd ever laughed as hard in the theater as I did during the second act of Hollywood/Ukraine. Much of the credit goes to the Marx Brothers and their writers, of course, but the H/U cast were some seriously skilled farceurs (who could also sing and dance delightfully in the first act), and it was impeccably staged by Tommy Tune.

A few years ago I saw the Marx Brothers' Animal Crackers at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival and, again, nearly fell out of my seat. Again again, credit to the Marx Bros., as well as the OSF cast and director who did the play straight, without a bit of camp or condescension. The next season OSF did The Cocoanuts with largely the same cast (certainly the same four Marxes). Like Animal Crackers, Cocoanuts is *barely* a play, just a rack to hang a lot of hilarity and songs on. Midway through the second act, though, the actors playing Groucho and Chico were alone on stage and spotted a bug crawling along the lip of the stage (I was in the fifth row and could easily see it, so they were not making it up). They went completely off book for more than five minutes riffing hilariously about that bug. (Asked if they should kill it, the audience yelled, Nooooo!) Finally, they scooped it up with a piece of paper, carried it into the wings and got back on book. No lie, five minutes later the bug flew back and landed on the lip of the stage again. Groucho: "Well, I guess we caught the acting bug." That was when the roof blew off the theater. I'll never ever forget it.

[quote]Chacun a son gout.

Did you just learn this, and that’s why you keep using it? And which meaning are you intending, “to each his own” or “there’s no accounting for taste”?

French can be tricky.

Claudette was no Viv Vance, r375.

The former, jerk. And I think I've used it very infrequently on this board.

Smore2 used to use it on Talkin' Broadway all the time.

It's not a particularly arcane phrase.

It’s been used several times in the last week or so.

Quite pretentious.

By different posters, perhaps. In any case, it's a fairly petty complaint.

R382, you find it pretentious? Really?

Oh well. De gustibus non est disputandum.

Quod erat demonstrandum.

According to Herman's memoir, he went to Brazil to try to convince Martin to do Mame. She didn't want to work. Nowhere in the book does he say he thought of her for Dolly.

Why was Mary Martin living in Brazil while the country was under a bloody dictatorship?

[quote]r364 Just not my cup of tea. She always looked to me like a clenched fist.

Mary Martin, Elaine Stritch and Ruth Gordon should have all played sisters in something.

R298 Gilbert and Sullivan are rarely performed without some revision because the lyrics have so many topical references and the works parodied are not commonly known today.

The most popular work, The Mikado, is probably the one most frequently revised with the original's references to "nigger serenaders" and yellowface making it hard to take.

Changing a line here and there to drop offensive descriptions does not constitute a revision in the way that, for example, Show Boat or Pal Joey (recently, at the Roundabout) have been revised. Those are full-scale overhaulings--whole scenes and songs have been added or deleted. Much of the original book writing was altered as well.

Barring the problem that the Grievance Committee begins shrieking in fury at The Mikado's racial casting, G and S shows can be revived without being changed in any important way. That doesn't mean no one will ever revise them. It means the scripts stand up for their narrative drive (though the plots are silly) and the scores are entirely oriented to story and character.

Martin and her husband lived on and off in Brazil for years. The only city even remotely close is Brasilia.

People have guessed that her husband was addicted to several drugs that were sold over the counter there. Janet Gaynor liked nearby at the beginning. .

[quote]r391 Martin and her husband lived on and off in Brazil for years. The only city even remotely close is Brasilia. People have guessed that her husband was addicted to several drugs that were sold over the counter there.

god, what a sad life.

"Pirates of Penzanze" is performed regularly without updates or line changes. Even yielding to Victoria's name. Pinafore is performed not as much but the Mikado is REALLY off limits unless with an all Asian cast or not Asian like the English National Opera. And even then as mentioned above "I've got a little list" is rewritten

Englishmen and women dressed up as Asians was a huge point in the Mikado as it was a parody and as Gilbert said when asked about its mocking of Japan that it had nothing to do with Japan. But all those incredible costumes and affectations make manifest what he was mocking in the British society of his day. If you put it in British clothes of the period it kills much of its point and entertaining conceits. It's too bad because I find it one of the greatest pieces of musical theater ever. Its brilliance never fails to surprise me. And it was not long ago that it could be as it should done without people getting their noses out of joint. Even Otello now makes no sense if white men play the role unless you use your imagination that this is a moor. Or you put a moor in the role.

I've never thought Mary Martin was ugly. It's strange how it's repeated so often here.

Mary Martin and Jean Arthur could have been twinsies. I always thought they were very very similar in appearance and voice. AND BOTH PLAYED PETER PAN!

Have there been major revisions to Show Boat? I know there have been attempts to restore the original script and remove the rewrites from the 1940s. Scenes and songs for minor characters such as "Queenie's Ballyhoo" have been restored. The Price version inserted a song from the movie to make Elaine Stritch happy. However, I am not away or rewrites to make the show more PC or acceptable to modern audiences. .

Show Boat like G&S is often revised because the original was too topical. Has any Show Boat revival included in their entirety the contemporary scenes that show Kim's career on Broadway in the 1920s? It would be incomprehensible today.

It is not about being PC. It is about being understandable to audiences. We know who Queen Victoria, but you always have to gag up the ode to Captain Shaw, change it, or cut it. And since audiences do not know their Donizetti, the parody in many productions is ignored entirely.

And there is nothing wrong in any of this. That is how theater works. Plays are written for the audience of its time. And when that time passes, it gets changed for the new audience.

The best part of ShowBoat was always Julie and that’s who the gays always identified with.

Trashy performer who loved the wrong guy, ends up in gutter, sings a torch song, becomes a boozer and sacrifices herself to help Magnolia.

I didn't like the bowdlerized 1994 Prince revival. Changing "niggers" to "darkies" is being PC. People at the time the story takes place used 'nigger" casually to refer to blacks. 'Darkies' is just trying not to offend but it loses its impact.

^^^ I agree

r400 your explanation is the reason you're wrong in your conclusion: at the time, "nigger" was indeed used casually; now (not just because of the PC police) it seems very harsh, and that's not the effect it's supposed to have or the characters' intent

R402 just because the word was used casually by whites doesn't mean black people at the time weren't offended. Heck, the term was taboo in the black community until the '70s or so when hip-hop started emerging. But the term should still be offensive within the context of the play. Just not to the white characters.

[quote]I didn't like the bowdlerized 1994 Prince revival. Changing "niggers" to "darkies" is being PC.

That change wasn't made for 1994. Hammerstein himself made it, as early as the 1932 tour/revival. It went back and forth between being "Here we all work on the Mississippi" to "Colored folk work on the Mississippi." If 1994 changed it to "darkies," that's a lot more in the vein of the original than the other versions.

The n word was considered offensive by whites. Sorry to burst your anti-PC bubble, but it was considered the wrong word to use in polite company regardless of whether any 'colored people' were present or not WELL before the 60s.

In terms of unacceptable profanity the n word was somewhere between cunt and dammit in terms of not saying it in front of women or people of standing if you don't want to appear to be trash. My grandmother told me about how as a child in the early 1900s calling brazil-nuts 'nword-toes' was akin to smoking and like a form of pointless swearing just to be 'bad.'

Wasn't the term "bloody" considered highly offensive and indelicate in Britain until fairly recently? If it was used dramatically in the theatre now it wouldn't have the original intended effect. So should it be changed now?

Now Oklahoma has been reimagined to feature a parapalygic Ado Annie. How;s that gonna work?

Martin and Jean Arthur used to compete for who could go to costume parties as Peter Pan—according to MM's bio. It's pretty clear they were lovers, but nothing has ever been verified.

MM moved to Brazil to be near Gaynor, who also had a nearby farm. It allowed them to be "close," far from the prying eyes of the press. MM's husband also liked the privacy that allowed him to fuck men. Herman's memoir includes a great story of his visit there with one of Mame's producers. Neither could get a night's sleep with the flurry of bats that were swooping noisily near the ceiling.

Hammerstein used the n word as the first word of Showboat very deliberately. It was to shove the New York white audience's face directly into the racism of the Deep South from the opening moments. Using another word softens that.

It's funny that Martin is considered sexless today when she became an overnight star playing a sex kitten. Gene Kelly even said that out of town the song got a nice reception but opening night the reaction of the audience was unexpected by everyone.

It's got to be the smuttiest song ever written by a golden age composer which then became a standard. Admittedly cleaned up a bit but still some things are surprisingly left in. And in that very short mink coat and her pretty legs it's very much a sexy tease.

[quote] Merman turned down Dolly because she was coming off of nearly three years of doing Gypsy (Broadway and then the national tour) and she wanted a long rest.

I've heard that story many times but I also read that Merman did not want to play a character that had already been done (Ruth Gordon on stage in '55, Shirley Booth on film in '58). She had originated all her Broadway roles and didn't want to be compared to the other actresses who played Dolly Levi.

Useless trivia: Loring Smith, who originated the part of Horace in the 1955 Broadway production of THE MATCHMAKER, again played Horace in the London production of HELLO, DOLLY! opposite Mary Martin

You'll note in photos, like the one linked above, that Merman was the only Dolly who did not wear the signature black velvet and rhinestone choker around her neck. The other ladies loved it as it hid any unsightly neck wrinkles as they strained for notes but Merman felt it inhibited her lung power.

The paraplegic* Ado Annie worked quite well at St. Ann's Warehouse. It took about 2 seconds to adjust.

*not parapalygic.

[quote]r399 The best part of ShowBoat was always Julie and that’s who the gays always identified with.

And she is going to win the Tony. But will Salazar or is there someone else?

"How;s that gonna work?"

It's about the only aspect of that unfortunate production that does work.

r410, maybe Martin isn't generally considered sexless today. It's just my opinion.

You're talking about Ali Stroker, r415? I hope you're right; she certainly deserves recognition for her performance.

Few musicals have been revised as much as Show Boat. The 1946 revival dropped all of the dialogue scenes "in one" (for set changes that were no longer as complicated as in 1927) and the entire gambling scene. It also dropped several songs, including Till Good Luck Comes My Way and Hey, Feller, and added in a new one, Nobody Else But Me. .

The 1971 London revival and the Prince revival made further changes, also on the grand scale.

It's Salazar's to lose.

Only gays and Jews should be allowed on Broadway or in any medium whatsoever.

R406 Pygmalion faced that problem when it was being musicalized in the '50s. In the play, Henry and Pickering test out Eliza at Mrs. Higgins' at-home tea party. At the end of the scene, Freddy offers to walk her home and she replies "Walk? Not bloody likely! I'm going home in a taxi." That was scandalous language at the time, and it's supposed to be a shocking moment.

However, "bloody" has never been offensive in the US, so the American creators had to come up with something else. The scene was changed from Mrs. Higgins' living room to the Ascot Races and at the end Eliza slips up by inadvertently shouting "Move your bloomin' arse!"

R398, the "contemporary" scenes were cut for the 40s revival (there were a lot of cuts because a lot of dance was added due to the success of Oklahoma!) . The imitations were probably cut after Norma Terris left since they were only there to show off her talents. In Dahomey gets cut because it really adds nothing to the show (I think it existed to cover a scene change.) . So far your examples are like comparing the changes between the Broadway and touring productions of Seesaw and Best Little Whorehouse, or the Broadway and Diana Rigg versions of Follies (It always has to come back to Follies, doesn't it?)

Salazar is TERRIBLE. What are you all smoking? Extremely over-the-top, and the cast and creative of that show are so far up each other's asses no one will be bothered to rein him in.

My money is Patrick Page. Hell, if they'd petitioned to put Ashmanskas in Featured I'd have bet on him but The Prom producers don't seem to know what they're doing.

[quote]The Prom producers don't seem to know what they're doing.

How do you figure?

R409 is correct. Nigger is used with intent in Show Boat. There is nothing casual about it.

[quote]Mary Martin and Jean Arthur could have been twinsies. I always thought they were very very similar in appearance and voice.

I always thought so too. They're remarkably similar in manner and appearance.

They petitioned to put Leavel and Ashmanskas in the Leading categories, when they both have better odds of winning (or at least being somewhat competitive) in Featured. Maybe they think it'll boost the show to have nominees in the Leading categories, but at this point that seems unlikely.

Additional missteps: Generally failing to properly invest in creating any sort of hype around the show until it was too late. Focusing on the youth ensemble (which looks like every other generic chorus) instead of highlighting the comedic actors as their selling point.

Rebel Wilson is Glinda!

I can’t bring myself to hate the mother of a lesbian, OP.

Jean Arthur is the one I meant, not Claudette Colbert.

R405 oh my gosh! yes! I know an old white lady that to this day still calls brazil nuts nigger toes. No one I know before knows this. oops I'm sorry. I mean, darkie toes.

Jean's Peter.....

I wonder if Phyllis or Ben used the N word when referring to their domestic staff.

R435, no, but Phyllis asks Ben if she thinks the Japs will win the war.

It's fine to say that The Prom's producers should be focusing on Brooks and Beth in their publicity but how the hell would you"sell" those 2 "personalities" to the theater-going public that doesn't already know them? Would anybody really care?

Well, I know I would feel good looking at a photo of Asmanskas with the caption reading "It could be worse. You could be THIS fat."

Beth is funny. Yeah. People like that. It would sell better than what they are doing.

[quote]Just because the word was used casually by whites doesn't mean black people at the time weren't offended. Heck, the term was taboo in the black community until the '70s or so when hip-hop started emerging. But the term should still be offensive within the context of the play. Just not to the white characters.

There seems to be come confusion here. In SHOW BOAT, the word "niggers" is sung by black people -- by the chorus at the beginning, and then again by Joe in "Ol' Man River." The word is also spoken at least once in the play by a white character, and in that moment it is supposed to be very ugly and offensive. Obviously, when black people sing or speak the word, it has a very different meaning than when white people do.

R438, you are the opposite of witty.

Slow Boat is a boring show. Let's talk about an interesting show.

Ankles Aweigh it is, r441!

The VP tweeted today about visiting Auschwitz and Birkenau. I responded that since he apparently enjoys a night out at the theatre some clever producer might consider mounting a major revival on Bent starring Bradley Cooper and Matt Bomer?

OF Bent, of course. Tee hee.

We could talk about Lorelei.....

Will The Michael Jackson musical open with

"Pedos all work on the Mississippi?" (Neverland Ranch doesn't scan)

Incidentally, about 12 years ago or so, someone was doing a musical about the MS St. Louis, the German ocean liner carrying Jewish refugees to Cuba in the 1930s. It was being called SHIP OF DREAMS or something. We had a discussion over at BWW and what an uninspired title it was. I remember one cheeky poster suggested SHOAH BOAT instead. XD

R446 The MJ musical is on hold

Hold me, MJ musical

r439 what are you they doing? they dont seem to be saying anything except look our muscal has people in it

Janet Gaynor's last husband, Paul Gregory, disliked Martin and thought she copied Gaynor's and Arthur's styles.. Gregory. lived a very long time, decades after Gaynor

r450. Please make an effort to write sentences that don't have to be unpacked.

R451 Paul Gregory also maintained that Janet was not a lesbian--and that she would have been forthright about it if she had been. Yeah, right--that's what an ingenue at the end of the silent era would have done, particularly one whose entire stock and trade was built on being the ingenue. Gaynor was a decent actress, and her Esther/Vicki in the 1937 "A Star is Born" is solid, if bordering on matronly, but there's a reason she stopped making films and moved with Adrian to Brazil.

Brooks isn't that fat, R438.

He's very very fat.

sorry r452 was typing too fast

r439 what do you think it is that they're doing? They dont seem to be saying anything except look! our musical has people in it

R396 Jean Arthur, Mary Martin and Oscar-winning actress Claire Trevor all looked quite similar.

Janet Gaynor is quite good in the beautiful "Sunrise" and in "Street Angel", 2 of the 3 films she won the first Best Actress Oscar for. (They did that then.) I haven't seen the 3rd one, but she's quite good in "A Star is Born" having made the transition to talkies very well. But yes, she pretty much was a lovely ingenue.

[quote]2 of the 3 films she won the first Best Actress Oscar for. (They did that then.)

Only for the first year.

Piggy Trevellion fat, r455?

'Brooks IS fat

R454 = Brooks

Right, you can’t be fat and be on Broadway.

[quote]The Prince version inserted a song from the movie to make Elaine Stritch happy.

No it didn’t. The song from the movie was “I Have the Room Above Her” and it went to Luker and Jacoby. Stritch got “Why Do I Love You,” which had previously been Ravenal and Magolia’s song. She sang it to her baby granddaughter Kim.

That led to Sondheim’s famous comment “I can’t imagine Elaine singing to a baby. Eating it, yes, but not singing to it.”

There's fat, there’s gay fat, and there’s Broadway fat.

Brooks is all three.

What's Broadway fat?

Broadway fat is Brooks Ashmanskas.

I think Brooks is cute. He looked like a Republican when he was thinner.

Speaking of cute, I'm watching the 1955 One Touch of Venus with Janet Blair and Russell Nype---now HE was cute!

Lucy was never fat......

Stritch's Why Do I Love You? was a reprise of the song that Magnolia and Ravenal sang earlier in the production. Not really such a big deal, and it made sense if Stritch was going to be in that revival.

Wow, R471! Lucy should have done more movie musical type things.

Why Do I Love You? made zero lyrical sense coming from Parthy. Hated it, then and now.

[quote]Why Do I Love You? made zero lyrical sense coming from Parthy

How come?

It makes sense as Parthy, until that moment with her granddaughter, is portrayed as an irascible cold nag. The baby transforms her and shows that even she has the capacity to love. The lyric speaks to her bewilderment with this new feeling.

Parthy is a musical equivalent of an opera comprimario (small supporting role) and shouldn't have been built up for Stritch, who had Robert Morse, in the more important role of Cap'n Andy fired from being in the NY Company. I'd rather have seen Morse in the production.

Fired from the company of "Show Boat" not the company of "Company" before people start to freak here.

Why was Morse fired? McMartin seems to me bad casting.

[quote]. It means the scripts stand up for their narrative drive (though the plots are silly) and the scores are entirely oriented to story and character.

"Oriented?" Was that deliberate?

Why, indeed. I'm sure Prince loved him (so did I) but McMartin seems too genteel for Cap'n Andy. Was Morse somehow upsetting that delicate flower Elaine?

[quote]Why was Mary Martin living in Brazil while the country was under a bloody dictatorship?

It's where the nuts come from!

Magnolia and Ravenal did not sing Why Do I Love You in Prince's version, R472.

That's why it was so controversial that he gave the number to Stritch: it was never heard as the authors meant it to be heard, as a love song between a newly married couple.

"Can you see the why or wherefore, I should be the one you care for?

Maybe that's because you love me, Maybe that's why I love you!"

These are lyrics sung to an infant? What should be unconditional love comes across as monstrous narcissism.

[quote]Why was Morse fired? McMartin seems to me bad casting.

Maybe Morse was stealing too much focus from Elaine? We can't have that. Cap'n Andy has always been a character part, played by the more appropriate Charles Winninger in the Universal movie and Joe E. Brown in MGM's (inferior) version.

Morse was also fired from Wicked.

Maybe Morse is a pill.

Or maybe Elaine was just being a cunt.

Again.

The rumor, unconfirmed. on Wicked is that Morse's drinking led to his being dumped. I have no idea if Show Boat was something similar, or completely different.

McMartin is a fine actor, but Captain Andy isn't an acting part. It's a personality role, also a born comedian. The way Winninger brings off that tour de force in finishing off The Parson's Bride after the villain has been chased off the stage is really good; McMartin was terrible on that bit, because it IS a bit.

I actually saw Robert Morse in the role in Toronto, but I don't remember what he was like now.

I'm betting r487 and r488 are both right.

I think Morse was high maintenance on good day, and seriously difficult when drinking.

[quote]What should be unconditional love comes across as monstrous narcissism.

Thus making it perfect for Elaine!

The first time I saw Morse was in about 1959 in "Take Me Along" with Walter Pidgeon and Jackie Gleason (and maybe Eileen Herlie but I'm too lazy to look). He was the juvenile, and was a completely endearing ham. He brought essentially the same quality to "How To Succeed...."

Well I would have given him the Tony over Vereen. His Daphne was sublime.

[quote]the "contemporary" scenes were cut for the 40s revival

If you mean the scenes set in 1927, no they weren't cut. It was in the scene set in 1927 that Magnolia's daughter Kim (both played by Jan Clayton) sang "Nobody Else But Me," which was followed by "Dance 1927" by Kim, Jimmy, and "Flappers."

Hammerstein wrote in the program: [italic] "Mr. Kern and I have kept the libretto and score of "Show Boat" substantially as they were when originally written in 1927. We have eliminated one "front scene" and three minor musical numbers. We have added one new song in the last scene of the play, "Nobody Else But Me." This takes the place of a series of imitations of stars of the Twenties performed in this spot by the original Magnolia, Miss Norma Terris." [/italic]

How is Morse, anyway? The last I saw him, he looked like death.

I saw Morse about a year ago at a concert version of Sugar in Glendale. He looked old, but looked okay - seemed very spry.

[quote]That led to Sondheim’s famous comment “I can’t imagine Elaine singing to a baby. Eating it, yes, but not singing to it.”

I had never heard that, but it's freaking hilarious. Thanks for sharing.

[quote]It makes sense as Parthy, until that moment with her granddaughter, is portrayed as an irascible cold nag. The baby transforms her and shows that even she has the capacity to love. The lyric speaks to her bewilderment with this new feeling.

But the lyrics are about romantic love, not about the love of an old woman for her baby granddaughter. So I guess you could say Parthy is just singing the song to the child because it's just a song she likes and wants to sing to the baby, but sorry, the lyrics don't apply to their relationship AT ALL.

Parthy is singing an old song that she loved from when she heard it in some old musical.

I loved Carole Shelley but she was an awful replacement for Elaine in Showboat. Painful.

I just saw "Daddy" with Alan Cumming at the Signature. Strange but interesting play. Not great but intriguing enough to recommend, though hopefully they will use the preview period to edit so that it's not so long (we were in there about 3 hours). For one thing, it has two 10-minute intermissions, which is a bit unnecessary in my opinion (I think one standard 15-minute intermission would do).

Cumming, by the way, and the actor who plays his lover, Ronald Peet (a real find), strip down and parade around naked for extended periods in this play. (Their sex scenes are hot but stop short of being pornographic.) And of course, the great Charlayne Woodard as Peet's mother can make anything worth the price of admission.

I saw Take Me Along too. Robert Morse was good, Jackie Gleason was great .

You can tell from the OCR, r503.

"We-l-l-l, get a load of all the bottle babies!"

Is this where we can talk about the Norm Lewis / Jessie Mueller MUSIC MAN at Signature? The ptr and I just watched the highlights clip on Playbill. Looks awful.

Lewis is completely wrong for it in every way. Has no charm. The voice is too woofy and legit-sounding for the score. No chemistry with Mueller, who sounds good.

Rosie as Mrs Paroo is a joke--she misses an entrance in the clip, for christ's sake.

it's Kennedy Center, but ouch.

R505 Apparently he is going up on lyrics as well

And Little Shop was SO good

I think a lot of that Music Man looks good, but Lewis definitely over sings - like a lot of people with legit voices, he doesn’t know what to do with songs that were written for character voices. He also doesn’t have the kind of dynamic energy that Harold Hill needs. He was electric in Sweeney Todd, but just doesn’t work for TMM.

Jessie Mueller, on the other hand, is a perfect Marian. If there is really a Broadway revival in the works, I hope she gets to do it.

Rosie O’Donnell did not miss a cue. She’s acting the fact that the Winthrop is instructing her to sing a line and she jumps in. It was fine.

I also thought the set looked good for a concert set, although I have no idea what the point of the moving backdrop was during “Will I Ever Tell You,” since Marian is supposed to be seated on her front porch during the number.

Just read Cumming’s bio on the Vineyard’s website. I love him even more.

Dear god I love male nudity on stage but the idea of watching Alan Cumming walking around naked seems a crime against theater audiences who would be forced to avert their eyes. Couldn't they get a handsome daddy?

[quote]Just read Cumming’s bio on the Vineyard’s website. I love him even more.

Really? I just read it, and it only makes me dislike him more. So self-consciously "edgy," and so vulgar. I mean, that's nice about the humanitarian stuff he does but his ego and personality seem pretty repellent.

You and I are ancient, r503, but I'm glad you liked it, too.

I saw the KC Music Man and have to agree about Norm. It's hard to see anyone other than Robert Preston in that role, but Norm is just too earnest for Harold Hill. Jessie Mueller was perfect; Rosie was fine. The local kids, who had very little rehearsal time with the "grown up" cast, were remarkable. It was a pretty polished production, and I was mostly relieved--the KC isn't very consistent in what it presents.

The Kennedy Center under Jeffrey Finn is supposedly gearing up to produce seasons of full musicals as well as plays , not just glorified concerts.

It's about time. Those theaters were meant for more than road houses.

R505 you’re dead wrong, Rosie comes in perfectly off after Winthrop’s unexpected cue, she’s adorable, could you really be that dim not to get it

Jessie sounds wonderful. Norm alas is just not a Harold Hill, vocally mushy and not at all in charge.

After the [italic]Spongebob[/italic] musical, what's next, [italic]Beavis and Butt-Head[/italic]?

Friend who works at Sonia Friedman production office told me that The Inheritance’s Broadway opening night will be Sunday, December 1st, World AIDS Day. Which is highly appropriate. No word on which theatre yet.

In Gary, Indiana, it seems clear that what the director had them play was: Winthrop points at his mom, she wasn't prepared for this extemporaneous bit and comes in a bit late, and when he then points at his sister, she is prepared and comes in properly.

It's a bit of naturalism in the middle of a fanciful number and that may mislead some viewers. But O'Donnell would be doing what the director wanted, not coming in late. The "coming in late" is actually what they're trying to convey, and doing it deliberately.

And it’s very cute and appropriate.

Rosie "missed" the same entrance in the performance I saw, so this was clearly a choice. I can't stand Rosie, but she was lovely in this production.

I've worked with Alan and he is one of the sweetest people you'd ever want to meet. Zero ego, but a perfectionist, which in this business, is a breath of fresh air. And he is very very funny without being vulgar. What's the matter, did he not sign your Playbill, R512?

This is the only part that Rosie has taken in a musical to date that’s appropriate for her.

Agree, but she really is quite engaging in it.

A clip from short lived Oliver in 1984

Cute, r525! Why was that revival such a huge flop? I can't remember, did it start in London?

And where is Bet? Isn't she usually in that number with Nancy?

That’s the one where one of the critics wrote it was the first time he’d see the audience applaud when Nancy was killed.

Why would they applaud that?

If Stritch had to be given a song in SHOW BOAT, Parthy should have sung "Life Upon the Wicked Stage" to the baby.

I bet she was trying to hold out for "Ol' Man River"!

Aurora spider woman is back

R531 back where?

R532 On Youtube Also R531 Old news, keep up granny

Wow r533 that’s some wit you’ve got there

Elaine Stritch sings Bill

I’d rather hear her sing Can't Help Lovin' Dat Man Of Mine.

I'm quite happy not to have to hear her sing anything

There's a lot of chaff there among the wheat.

I'm not a Rosie fan but she was wonderful in No, No Nanette at Encores. That was one of my favorite Encores productions. I'm not saying the show is worthy of a broadway revival but, if that ever happens, please sign Sandy Duncan and Rosie (that is if Rosie isn't too busy playing Mrs. Brice opposite Lady Gaga)

[quote]I bet she was trying to hold out for "Ol' Man River"!

Well, if Bea Arthur had been in the cast ...

Get a little drunk and you land in jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiillllllllllllllllllllllllll

No need for anyone to avert their eyes from Alan Cumming. He's in great shape.

Meet and greet tickets for Platt's album tour are $400. And he's doing venues which are in the 3000-4000 seat range. He deserves to flop with that kind of hubris.

He may be in "great shape" but he's gross.

I know it's true, but I am astounded that anyone wants to meet and greet Ben Platt.

I can't imagine Platt's whole schtick aging well. Once the teens realize he isn't Evan Hansen they'll move on.

Platt will be lucky if he ends up with Sean Hayes' career.

R544 what are you implying?

How dare Norm Lewis not sound like Robert Preston. Everyone knows that old Theatre Queens deem the ultimate sin is not sounding exactly like the original cast album they have been listening to for fifty years.

Irrational, but true r550. And one day you'll be an Old Theater Queen complaining that some kid doesn't sound like Ben Platt.

Well, bad example, but you get my point I'm sure.

Craig Bierko was able to sound exactly like Robert Preston. What's Norm's problem?

R550 Learning the lyrics would help Norm more

I wish Ben Platt had sounded like Ben Levi Ross. And acted like him as well.

Norm seemed to be treating the score too seriously. There should be some humor coming through.

R549 I'm not really implying anything, I'm outright saying that those kind of numbers are pretty optimistic for a first album tour from someone from Broadway. He doesn't even have a million followers on IG so it's not like he can bank on the social media crowd either.

Go to 18:00.....

So I just watched those clips of the Kennedy Center Music Man.

It's just so.....mediocre on every level. Absolutely no charm in evidence.

I really am too old now to enjoy any revival.

I saw the show a week ago. It was very entertaining, and the audience was thoroughly charmed by it. But I'll defer to your informed opinion, based on clips, R558.

Norm Lewis can't play charm roles because....well, let's leave it at that.

The show was better than those clips....apart from Norm.

r560 nailed it.

R560 I don't get it.

There's nothing to get.

Why can't Norm play charm roles?

Not charming, perhaps?

Let it go, Rose.

Why should R564 let it go? You and another poster made a comment, why are you now trying to so hard to avoid explaining your thinking behind that comment?

Harold Hill is a CHARMING conniving shyster (and anti-hero) but Norm plays him like the standard heroic swaggering romantic leading man.

Could it be any clearer?

I'm r555, and I did't make either of the comments you're referencing. I said he seemed to be taking the score too seriously.

Now how about you fuck off.

R568 You said "R560 nailed it" and all R560 said is Norm can't play charm roles. So...

Who Is She?

Who Was She?

Who Does She Hope To Be?

Oh, go hector somebody else, r569. This is not Miss Nelson's 4th grade classroom.

Well at least after the last thread the racists have gone back to being ashamed to admit to their racism.

That's just offensive.

Welcome to the DL Theatre Gossip threads....

Where we just don't care much for black people.

[quote]This is not Miss Nelson's 4th grade classroom.

Indeed. Miss Nelson Is Missing.

Because a couple people don't like Norm Lewis as Harold Hill that makes them racist? So any criticism of a black person is automatic racism?

R577 Of course not. But when someone is asked, repeatedly, to explain why they think something, and they refuse to do so, even pretend they didn't agree with someone else who said it, and given the recent history in these threads, it's a fair assumption. Of course, those posters could still prove that assumption wrong by explaining why they think Norm can't play charm roles.

Plus the whole

[QUOTE]because....well, let's leave it at that.

doesn't exactly help

R522, I have never met Alan Cumming. My feelings about him are based only on his performances, his quotes in the press, and his aggressive vulgarity in public. Your suggestion that I don't like him because he "didn't sign my Playbill" is childish and stupid.

Norm Lewis is super talented and has been great in several shows, such as SIDE SHOW, COMPANY, THE LITTLE MERMAID and SWEENEY TODD. But I wish he's stop taking roles he's wrong for, in way way or another, like Porgy and Harold Hill and Joe in SHOW BOAT.

OMG.

Are we done with this one yet?

No.

Words.

Brooks Ashmanskas IS Harold Hill.

Maybe there are words....

To be fair, Robert Preston wouldn't have made a very good Jake.....

"The Prom" is such a generic, uninspired title.

Sadly, I agree that the title is part of the reason why the show has not caught fire at the box office. But I'm at a loss to suggest what it should have been called instead. Thoughts? (I'll probably regret asking.)

"Saving Scissors Sisters: Attack of the Queens"

Everything's coming up....

MITZI!

Theatre Gossip #343: The "We all hate this OP, even more than the last three OPs" edition.

Welcome to the DL Theatre Gossip threads....

Where we just don't care much for black people. —just ADMIT it, already....

unless they show bbc on stage

that's not the original Bway cast, R589, is it?

I'm too sexy...

For my shirt....

That's a photo of the off-Broadway cast of Take Me Out at The Public as Dominic Fumusa is there on the extreme left (not visible unless you click the link), He chose not to go to Broadway and was replaced by David Eigenberg.

what show are WE from?

Or US?

Coming soon....

MILLENNIALS! THE MUSICAL

PEOPLE WILL SAY WE'RE COURTNEY LOVE!

There's somebody on here that's dumb as dirt or just loves being the gadfly.

Just....

DIE already!

THIRD MIDNIGHT!

AT LAST....

MY ARM IS COMPLETE AGAIN!

I SMELL A TONY!