What makes people cheap

And that, my friend, is why they are worth millions.

OCD in my uncle's case

My brother and his wife are cheap. For Christmas, a typical gift from them would be a decorative box containing a jar of jam, a jar of artichokes, some handkerchiefs, and some 2¢ stamps. Yes, because “everybody needs 2¢ stamps”. They are also Deplorables, and can’t shut-up about that deplorable cult to which they belong.

I’ve recently decided that I get nothing from them, can’t count on them in a time of need, and they tax my patience with their Deplorablism, so I’m no longer making an effort with them.

When I wrote “that I get nothing from them”, I meant emotionally, not gifts.

There is "cheap" and there is "thifty". Being cheap can be found at any income level where the person, for example, wouldn't give a nickle to any person or charity. Being thrifty would be someone who watches what they spend, uses coupons, makes good purchasing decisions and saves money for when they need it. Being cheap is more like a behavior problem, perhaps out of fear and a mindset of lack and limitation. Thrifty is probably a good character trait, unless it becomes something like R2 mentioned.

Fear, in the case of the two cheapest peopsons I have ever known.

Being a “good consumer” is a virtue. Being cheap is where it affects other people, or starts to affect your own life in a negative and significant way.

Ditto, R8. Fear of poverty.

What makes people cheap

I know, right?

My boss gave me his credit card to withdraw ATM money toward a $100 corporate contribution (cash was his preference). Upon pulling the receipt from the machine to support the related expense report, fucker has over $100K in his CHECKING account.

[quote]Being a “good consumer” is a virtue.

the greatest lie every sold. . . .

I enjoy being uber thrifty.

And I enjoyed be able to retire from soul-sucking corporate life at 53.

Someone who eats while food shopping.

One of my work associates from long ago was a member of a very wealthy family. He inherited a little over $35 million when his father died. He invited me to lunch one day and we took his car (a company car) because he wanted to stop by the garage where he was having some work done on his personal car, a very standard Buick Le Sabre (first clue of extreme cheapness). We pulled into the garage and the mechanic came over to the car my associate asked him how the work was coming. The mechanic said it should be finished that day but he had to send out for on little cheap $4.00 part that he was waiting on. My friend said "are you going to charge me a markup on that?". The mechanic said "well yes, we have to go buy it" (second clue of extreme cheapness). The whole way to the restaurant he was fuming because he was going to have to pay a markup on a $4.00 part. Once we were seated we were talking and he revealed he was having the Buick looked over in preparation to give to his 15 year old son when he turned 16. My first thought was "you think your son is going to want to drive a big ol' 4 door granny Buick?". And that was the third and final clue that he was the cheapest bastard I've ever known.

Sometimes cheapness comes from your parents and how you were raised. It also comes from plain selfishness. Referring to R13's post, begrudging a retailer his markup on wholesale; that's cheap and selfish (and stupid). I'm sure R13's work associate would expect to make a profit on his own business ventures.

[quote] WTF, R10?

Being a “good consumer” means spending wisely, not wantonly.

My Deplorable 60-ish Brother-in-Law. I upgraded his son’s computer because it’s memory was so limited, maybe 250 mb, that it was unusable. Then all the USB ports were broken because “someone” (my BIL) was being impatient with inserting USB connections. I fixed it, then fixed the printer. Then all the USB ports were all broken, again. This happened within a few months. I declined to fix it again - I just gave up. It had become a money pit.

My BIL bought a used 20 year old computer running Windows NT for $75 that he expected his son, who was younger than the computer, to do his high school homework on, and play on, and learn about computers on, etc. What a cheap asshole. I spend many hundreds fixing it, my BIL broke it, and then he replaces it for $75. Of course, nobody used the $75 computer because it was unusable.

I hate that guy. I feel sorry for the kid.

My mother, and her mother suffered from extreme cheapness and in some way it has descended into me.

I've had to fight all my life to spend to enjoy things and it will still sometimes bother me when small amounts of money are wantonly spent (Like, mistakenly ordering something at a restaurant thinking it was $4 when it turns out to be $7). My mistake but it bothers me for some reason.

It does come from fear, I can tell you firsthand.

Wealthy older acquaintance came to town and asked for my partner's expertise which was provided over the phone. He asked us to dinner at a very exclusive restaurant but we politely declined since we couldnt afford it. He did not offer an alternate restaurant.

He dined alone.

Unbelievable.

Had a friend who, in his 20s, became partner in a successful law firm. The rest of us (group of friends) were not on that level, financially. A bunch of us met at a restaurant for dinner. Law partner guy ordered an expensive bottle of wine. Check was split equally amongst all of us. Law partner guy did other cheap things besides that. I asked his ex-GF whether he was cheap (in their relationship) and she said no. I guess he had compartmentalized cheapness, or maybe ex-GF had low expectations.

often times cheap people are stingy with everything, not jus tmoney...... including their emotions and often I find they have little or no empathy. For example Donald Trump for all his bankrupcys and his wild personal spending is known to be very cheap personally. And we know his lack of empathy all too well.

I believe all that, r20, except the part about Trump ‘s “Wild personal spending”. I haven’t heard a word about that.

A lot of politicians are cheap—it must come from their years sitting at dinners while others applaud them and feed them. Clintons were stingy, Carters were cheap, but made it a bit cute.

R18, was the relative planning to pay for dinner? You might have lost out on a good meal because you assumed the check would be split. He did invite you.

I recall going out with this large group occasionally for cheap eats. Every so often, the group would be particularly large, and there was always someone, or two, who just didn’t pay. I learned that when the group was big, to ask in advance to get a separate check for the 4 to 6 people that I was sitting with, and let the rest of the group do whatever they wanted to do with their bill. It was just asking for trouble to get one check for more than 10 to 12 people.

Sometimes people didn’t like that, but nobody could ever articulate a reason why, other than “but this makes it harder for me to eat and not pay”. Haha.

I was always taught that when I spent money, make it count. Buy the best you can find so it will last and it'll end up being cheaper in the long run. Don't spend money if the return on the investment doesn't make it worthwhile. Never give in to impulse purchases, no matter what it is. And above all, deny yourself once in a while. It'll make you appreciate what you do spend money on all the more.

I’m cheap out of fear and training. Both parents grew up in poverty - but my mother was deep poverty to the point that she had to be given away to an aunt Nd uncle at 11 in another country to be raised after her father died. She passed on deep money fear to me - combined with great envy of wealth and fear of appearing poor (think Hyacinth Bucket).

I’m a generous tipper and try not to let it interfere with my social life. But I never buy new clothes and will shop for days if I need to buy something to make sure I got the best price. I feel like a sucker if I don’t.

I’m constantly in fear of going broke - which in the world of self-funding a retirement of indeterminate length, is a guarantee of perpetual fear.

I used to be a "Christian" and a big group of us would occasionally get together at a restaurant. I learned fast to suggest separate checks because invariably someone would manage to not fork over their share when everyone was on the same check.

There's the underlying fear of poverty, a reluctance to change with the times or with changed circumstances, a resentment of people who are perceived as better off, simple thoughtlessness, all sorts of emotional responses. My parents grew up poor during the Great Depression and even though they were quite well off by the time I became aware of finances, they were monumentally cheap. Mostly, Money wasn't wasted on high living or luxuries, and if my horrible high school wardrobe put me at the bottom of the social scale, I can't really argue that spending shit-tons of money on clothes for your high school kid or buying a car that will impress their friends is a wise use of limited resources.

However, chucking me out of the house at 18 while crying pooor or saying they can't afford to float their kids a loan during periods of unemployment is somewhere between cheap and pathological. It's partly motivated by simple fear of poverty, and partly by resentment that their kids had it better than they did when they were young. So now I'm thoroughly frugal and live below my means, partly because I need to... and partly because the fear of poverty induced by the Great Depression has traveled down the generations. Yes, I'm afraid of ending up poor and abandoned, largely because I know damn well my family won't help me if I run into financial trouble.

Rich people aren't rich because they saved. But I have noticed rich people are the cheapest mother fuckers in the world. They tip atrociously. They don't like paying for shit. There are poor people who would give the shirts off their backs to help someone out. Most rich people flip out if they have to pay slightly higher taxes!

A relative grew up in a poor family. He worked hard and used some connections to get a good-paying government job. He was not rich, but he was comfortable, and it was a huge step up from his childhood quality of life. He married a woman whose father had earned a small fortune through investing in real estate. She had a good job, too. Together they lived very comfortably. But both still suffered from the scars of poverty in their early childhood. They clip coupons. They return two-year-old exercise equipment (in obviously used condition) back to Costco for a full refund. They gave my grandmother a pair of running shoes for her birthday. A week later, grandma died, and they went and got the shoes out of her closet and returned them for a refund. They use all kinds of little schemes to save money, such as calling around to 5 different hotels, trying to haggle the price they saw on the Internet, and letting each hotel know what kind of deals the others offered them. They often cancel a reservation the night before a trip to grab another offer. Is it really worth it to save $20 a night on a three-night stay, if you spent three hours shopping around, arguing on the phone, and then comparing prices up to a few hours before leaving?

Good thread. Main point of arguiment between my husband and I. I’m extremely attentive to money out of fear. Grew up never having enough with parents constantly fighting and stressed about money. He pays no attention to money - despite being 53 and having less than $100k in his 401k. He didn’t grow up worrying about money - and had his college paid for.

Agree that being cheap is a problem.. But what makes people NOT worry about money at all. What allows you to be in your mid-50s and not worried about saving for retirement? I just don’t understand how you can not be worried about running out of money. Is it denial? What’s the emotional driver? Being excessively cheap is bad - but so is being a spendthrift.

The “Wolf of Wall Street”, after he got out of prison, went to a media party for some other movie. It was a very lavish thing, completely over the top, and he told his wife that night that it was a scam, because “Nobody throws away money like this (on the party) if they had to work for it themselves.”

Your posts, above, brought that to mind.

It pissed me off when celebrities get things for free when they are worth millions and millions. But that is how it is for the rich.

[quote] R31: But what makes people NOT worry about money at all. What allows you to be in your mid-50s and not worried about saving for retirement? I just don’t understand how you can not be worried about running out of money. Is it denial? What’s the emotional driver?

R31, it helps to have an idea of what you need to live. I’m an engineer and had saved various financial info in a spreadsheet for years. So, at one point, I was able to figure out what it cost for me to live, especially considering that in retirement, I didn’t need to pay income tax on money I earlier earned, and didn’t need to save for retirement. So, I figured I could live well on $50,000 per year.

I also knew I historically made more than 7.5% on my investments. Given all that, and my age, it was just a matter of math to figure out what I needed today to live to 100. Provided no “black swan”. A “black swan” is a disaster that cannot be foreseen. I do worry about that, a little, but not too much.

An older friend of mine, a 72yo woman, owns and lives in a beautiful condo in a great neighborhood in a large city. She has about $4M in savings and investments, yet lives comfortably on her Social Security and pension. She has Medicare, supplemental insurance and even Long-Term Care insurance. She's widowed, no family. She has a few friends, including me whom she often leans on emotionally.

When dining with her, she will seldom pay for my meal even though I often go out of my way to pick her up and drive her around whenever she visits in my city. As for myself, I'm semi-retired, no debts, but through necessity, live frugally and I live in a very modest neighborhood. Our financial comfort levels are on different spectrums. I enjoy her company very much, save for her Deplorable mindset. When she passes, I won't see a dime, I'm sure. The NRA and other conservative groups will, though, and that bugs me more than I have a right for it to do. It's her money. I'm not starving. But damn, I give so much of my own funds to my friends' little girls, willingly spoiling them, and I do it because I want to see their enjoyment now. My friend could do the same for me and not even miss it, I think to myself too often, but it'll never happen.

R33, it is. Just like people who don’t need loans are offered the very best terms.

My stepfather was cheap as hell. He forced my mother to work as a superintendent at apartment buildings because they got a free apartment as a superintendent couple. She had to scrub out stoves and fridges and she really wasn't fit for that kind of work.

Then when it came time to buy things, nothing but the best for himself. He bought himself a leather case because he was taking courses but my mother had to watch her spending. He also got her hooked into trying to win money at the racetrack. He was too cheap to hire a babysitter for me so I got dragged along with them. Of course, they never won any money. I once sat down and figured out that the money they lost at the track could have put a down payment on a house.

Can you guess why I never cried any tears when he died?

[quote] R30: Is it really worth it to save $20 a night on a three-night stay, if you spent three hours shopping around, arguing on the phone, and then comparing prices up to a few hours before leaving?

The way I sometimes think of this, is to consider what my salary works out to per hour. If I can make more than that per hour, by comparison shopping, or by fixing something myself, or so forth, then I think it’s worth it to pursue. If it ones out to a savings of much less, then maybe I’ll skip it.

I encouraged my brother in law to refinance his mortgage at a lower rate. After a few years, my sister made him do so. He saved [bold] $600 per month, every month thereafter [/bold] that’s a lot of money, no matter how long it took to complete the pplication. He had a second property but didn’t refinance if because he was going to sell it in a few years so it “wasn’t worth it” - meaning, even though he had most of the work already done, he was too lazy and too stupid to save another $500 a month. And it was about 4 years before he unloaded that property. Meanwhile, my sister works her ass off.

I agree with the comments about cheapness stemming from fear of poverty but I don't think that is always the case.

Someone once said that stinginess is form of meanness and I believe that is a factor too. What OP described sounds like people who like to play games. My sister is like that; loves the thrill of separating others from their money when she has plenty.

Cheapness and stinginess can also stem from having control issues and wanting to control others.

Growing up in poverty is no excuse for stinginess. It’s a character flaw, and it’s frankly used as an excuse to be greedy.

R19 when it comes to pussy straight men will not be cheap. However when it comes to everyone else they are cheap!

R23 It was a wealthy acquaintance, not a relative.

He got valuable information for his professiom from my partner over the phone then asked us to dinner at an insanely expensive restaurant he wanted to try on his visit.

My partner politely declined and said it we couldn't afford it. I should have clarified that the acquaintance responded, "Oh well! Guess I'll be dining alone!"

What an ungrateful, selfish clod. Never bothered with him again.

R35, your friend sounds like a miser. She should be picking up the tab for you, often, since you are driving her cheap ass around. Hopefully, you don't have to listen to very much proselytizing. Some people are just selfish and oblivious to other people's situations.

A friend of mine owns a company, has a nice truck and a very nice house. He was dropping me off one day and I was surprised to see blue bags filled with bottles in the back of the truck. He was returning them for the refund. He also participates in focus groups for cash and mows lawns. All those things can't bring in much money, and he doesn't need the money anyway.

There are certain behaviors that one learns on the way to becoming wealthy, that one just doesn’t discard later.

R41 No I am not akgreeink to you. Some men they are cheap to pay for whore and then get married and cheap to give wife money to. I know dis, yes. They are liking to keep all the money to thereself, yes. Veddy greety. I know.

Does it perhaps give people the feeling like they have some control over part of their life that is otherwise out of control?

Is it cheap or strange to order a meal to go, from a restaurant?

R47, They also serve who only stand and wait.

My dad was exactly like r16's brother, and for years I overspent because of sheer annoyance at how utterly miserable he had made childhood because of his cheapness. Then I got into financial trouble because of medical bills and learned a hard lesson, but at least now have savings instead of spending everything on "good quality" items that I didn't really need.

Family can screw up your worldview and you won't even realize it's happening.

I'll never know why he was so cheap. He'd had fantastic clothes when he grew up but would begrudge me a new shirt for school.

R48, I don't know how you could consider that cheap, unless you don't tip. I find it strange, though. If I'm already in the restaurant, I'm going to eat there instead of schlepping the food home.

[quote]My dad was exactly like [R16]'s brother, and for years I overspent because of sheer annoyance at how utterly miserable he had made childhood because of his cheapness.

Me and my father. I don't think I've posted in this thread yet, but I've talked about it before, here and elsewhere. My father was a Child of The Depression, and he forever resented my brother and me because of the relative affluence in which he was able to bring us up.

My "dramatic object" if I were to write a play about my father would be Shop Rite Cola. He would never buy the good stuff for us. Even his mother served us Pepsi when we went to visit, but not my father. It was Shop Rite or nothing (and he preferred nothing).

My roommate from college had dated a guy for about 2 years. He would pick up the check when we would go out once in awhile. He worked full time while we were poor college students. He ended up winning 3.2 million from a mega millions drawing. From that moment on, he became cheap to the extreme. He would make his girlfriend pay for her own meals. When ever they went anywhere he would calculate the amount of gas used and make her pay half. That kind of cheap.

R43, I get the feeling R35's friend is considerably older, and that could be why she's cheap. Old people stop moving with what's current (sometimes not knowing, sometimes purposely because it serves them) and just decide whatever things cost at a point in time is current. That's why you might get a birthday card from Grandma with $5.00 tucked into it. I would just accept it and smile!

I think there is a difference between cheap and thrifty. I see nothing wrong with thrifty. For example, at Christmas time I have a list of people I buy for, word doc, leave it on the phone and computer. If I see something that is market down or on sale during the year I will get it then and there, mark off on the list who I got it from and stick under my budget. I also don't get swamped at Christmas time that way and I also find it financially easier. If there is a deal at the supermarket for items, I will stock up. I am in Australia so we have Costco but only a couple but several hours away so don't go. This way, by stocking up on items I save over time, eg tooth paste etc. Or if frozen food, it goes in the tucker box. (A tucker box is just a freezer that is a box that you keep in the garage etc for when the freezer attached to the fridge is full). I do look about for coupons, but its not like the states. Our supermarkets send out catalogues each week and no coupons needed, everyone gets those items that cheap price and if none left you get a rain check on the item and bring back that coupon for the cheaper price within 30 days. I see nothing wrong with being savy with money, it just means the extra money can be spent on other items you enjoy.

R35 here, in response to R43 and R54.

She is almost 17 years older than I am. She is mostly healthy from what I know, though she has a myriad of potential issues that could surface and upset the norm. She thinks of me as her family, often calling me her surrogate cousin. I actually enjoy a lot of my conversations with her, and we both try hard to avoid religious (she is, I'm not) and MAGA-like conversations. Sometimes we have those scuffles, but they're rare. I applaud her for not feeling the need to be glitzy and applaud the occasional nice vacation she takes for herself. On those rare times I visit her city, I lodge at her condo, saving buckets in hotel rates. Again, I have zero right to expect a dime extra, but given the context I've provided, I can't help but wish she'd simply gift me some amount that wouldn't hurt her one bit.

r55 lurn 2 rite

[quote]I can't help but wish she'd simply gift me some amount that wouldn't hurt her one bit.—Wising and Hoping

I wish you an "H."

If you're smart, industrious, and have a little luck thrown in, making money is the easy part. Keeping it and growing it is the hard part.

When you’re life revolves around getting and having money - as it does for many rich people - every expenditure becomes more meaningful than to normal people. Its the reason the rich are often super cheap - it’s what their world is about and their main “job” and purpose in life is managing money. People envy the rich but it leads to - or is indicative of - a lot of other problems that normal people don’t have.

Also, some rich people are painfully aware that they can't earn the kind of money they inherited or married, so they're very keen to hold onto it. Others are paranoid about being taken advantage of and being valued only for their money, and to them, refusing to be generous to friends is a way of testing whether the friend is just after their money.

Which is probably what's going on with the nice wealthy lady who never pays for her poorer friend above. As long as he doesn't ask her for money she considers him a friend, and yes, IMHO that makes her a bit of an asshole. If she won't pick up the check when it's her turn, he ought to start going to cheaper places and ask for separate checks, and it's okay to say that you just can't afford to take her to nice places all the time.

[quite]Which is probably what's going on with the nice wealthy lady who never pays for her poorer friend above. As long as he doesn't ask her for money she considers him a friend, and yes, IMHO that makes her a bit of an asshole. If she won't pick up the check when it's her turn, he ought to start going to cheaper places and ask for separate checks, and it's okay to say that you just can't afford to take her to nice places all the time.

Good suggestion r61

My mother is so cheap it’s painful, but she grew up in a very wealthy family. She’s money and status obsessed and has never been able to hold down a job or understand a thing about money. I spend money like a sailor on leave as a result. I wish I had more self control. I’m trying to do small curb my spending challenges. So far I’m failing.

My dad was really cheap, but, in his defense, he grew up during the Depression and WWII.

What I can't stand are cheap people who are pennywise/pound foolish. Like people who will nickel-and-dime businesses to death with outrageous demands of freebies, but blow a ton of money on luxury items for themselves. Or, for that matter, upper middle class Americans who perpetually claim to be "broke" but have so much useless junk that they can't stop buying. Most of them are undoubtedly Trump supporters because, since they're so "broke", they can't possibly be expected to pay taxes.

Interesting, R63, I knew a "spendthrift" who spent her way into serious financial trouble, but could never stop.

Someone be a dear and start a thread about being unable to stop spending? It's a subject that interests me, having seen it up close.

Ditto R65. My boyfriend refuses to track his money or manage it in any way. “The universe will provide “ and “Ill always be ok” are his answers. It just boggles my mind that a 52 year old can think that way. I appreciate the absence of neurotic cheapness but just can not understand how or why people spend thoughtlessly. Don’t you worry about being unemployed? What do you think you will do if you don’t have a job?

R57 I was siting on a train.

Not tipping Tipping poorly Not giving food, etc to the homeless/people in need Not treating your friends occasionally Always splitting a bill to the penny Not reciprocating gifts Not bring a little something when you're invited to dinner Not offering to pay on occasion Talking about how much money you have - it makes you crass rather than cheap

R66... don't marry him, don't move in with him. Mingling your finances in any way would mean endless fights over money and hard feelings.

[quote]My brother and his wife are worth low millions. But the rarely pull out their credit cards to pay for shit

I have family like this. I have a cousin who is very wealthy and only generous in situations that feeds his ego. For example, his political contributions gives him access to very influential politicians so that he can show off that he knows them, but heaven forbid he helps his widowed sister who is struggling to pay the mortgage.

Thanks R69. I figured out early on that finances need to be separate and I have no interest in marriage. Otherwise a wonderful giving upbeat and optimistic person who is a really good man. But his attitude towards money is something I can’t understand - especially as a midddle aged guy. I just wonder how someone can not worry - at all - about money. And not bother to track or analyze how they spend their money.

In my line of work I sometimes deal with millionaires and billionaires. Yes they are stingy!

I have relatives who are multi-millionaires. My immediate family and I are poor, very poor. One of my millionaire relatives came to visit when my son was an infant, and didn't even bring a small gift for the baby. Low class. My grandparents felt that this particular relative only came to visit to slum it and gawk at our poverty. (hadn't seen the relative since I was a child.) I don't know if that was true, but my grandparents knew that relative her whole life, and I didn't, so I'm inclined to believe them.

R73, maybe they couldn’t stop to find a gift?

R35's story resonates with me.

I have some older friends and acquaintances, some of whom are very well off. I know a few are estranged from family or have no one to leave money to, so when they pass on, their large estates will go to 1) their old colleges, 2) their churches, or less frequently, to a non-profit or service organization.

I wish more people so fortunate (and some of these older folks are worth several million) would take a more personal view. Can they imagine what a difference $10,000 would make in the lives of some of their aging friends living on fixed incomes? Or the friendly superintendent and his family in their building? Their immigrant cleaning lady? The single mom who has picked up their mail and looked in on them when the power failed? The school crossing guard?

It seems as if most Americans bequeath massive amounts of money to family members or institutions, but cannot be bothered to connect giving with the people who actually make a difference in their lives.

Yes, better to donate to Harvard, or U of Podunk, because they're really in need. Maybe they'll name a volleyball after you.

R74 do explain how a grown woman who takes the time to visit a relative she hasn't seen in literally decades, can't find the time to stop at a store at any point before, during, or after the visit to dip into her tens of millions of dollars and spent $5.00 on a toy? Or an article of infant clothing? Come the fuck on.

My uncle retired as an executive VP of a big corporation. When he would come visit his mother (my grandmother) in New York he would call his college that he graduated from 40 years beforehand and ask to be put up in the dorms, rather than pay for a hotel room. He’s now deceased and my aunt married an old high school flame who is a retired cop and totally cool. I’m happy for her.

Beautifully stated, R75. I'm R35, and if I didn't already make clear already, I'm certainly not destitute at all, just a guy who thinks twice and more before I am able to buy something expensive for myself, eat home more often than eat out...all the frugal things one does. I'm sure my friend's pet charities and causes would all be delighted to receive, perhaps, $25K each, and she could even give that amount to multiple charities. I have admitted I'm being more self-serving than I should be about this, but there's genuine PLEASURE to be received from gifting nice amounts to your loved ones rather than just silently note it and move on.

I mean, gift ME, and I PROMISE that I'll gift others!

(Not her vile conservative causes, however)

R76, I think a $5 toy would be even more offensive to the person it was given to. That recipient would scoff and probably wonder why it wasn't a $50 or $500 toy. You can never win. I

I have a friend who's father has made hundreds of millions of chemical patents he invented. He has built SEVERAL buildings on his college campus including a clock tower. The entire Chemistry program is endowed by this man, yet his REFUSES to do anything that doesn't involve reducing his tax bill. My friend works 2 jobs and whenever they go out, Dad will split the check since "I don't drink." He drives an 96 Honda and lives in a trashy 2 bedroom house with his wife (not my friends mother, she ran for the hills long ago).

2 instances come to mind.

One, which I will preface saying that he doesn't give money to his kids, but invests heavily in the stock market to generate losses to offset his income. My friend had the inside track on some property being auctioned off for $200,000. Called his dad to ask for a loan and got a "It's not really a good time, I'm adjusting my portfolio and I have to make a payment to (Insert charity here) for an award I'm endowing). Property sold for $200,000, new owners gussied it up and sold it for $750.000.

The second was, father had donated a clock tower a few years ago and later a few buildings, again, to avoid paying the government. The entire science and engineering college is named after him and he is the largest donor in the colleges history. One day my friend gets a call that, in order to connect one of his buildings to the clock tower, they're building a breezeway, and he was paying for it and it was going to be the, lets say "Jon Jones Breezeway," which is my friends name. My friend who had never attended or even stepped foot on the campus of this school is getting a building named after him. So, when the project came time for a dedication, my friend told his dad that it would be cost prohibitive to pay for the airfare, hotel, rental car, meals, etc. while taking several days off of work to do this. The father replied "You kids don't appreciate anything I do for you, I guess I'll have to cut the ribbon myself" and hung up.

My friend has been working on a house he bought for $90,000 for almost 6 years. Dad has not contributed a penny. Not that it's owed, but $10,000 means a whole hell of a lot more to my friend than $6,000,000 means to a college he never attended.

Being cheap or frugal by doing without and living beneath your means is a responsible way to provide for yourself and have a comfortable future. Trying to make others pay your way, not contributing to shared bills,spending four times as much as anyone else at the table and splitting a check etc. is being a con artist.

Good story, R80.

That father has no heart.

R75: I have some older friends and acquaintances, ... so when they pass on, their large estates will go to 1) their old colleges,...

I lost my oldest friend a few years ago. He moved out of state but we talked occasionally and I saw him once a year. He actually personally addressed the envelopes that his niece later used to send out his death notice. I can’t imagine how that was managed.

Anyway, I see online that he gave at lease $6 million to his college, which he attended 70 years earlier. Just to be honest, I wouldn’t have minded if he threw a little moola my way. As R75 wrote, just a small portion of that would have made a big difference in my life.

Though, I do miss him, regardless.

poverty

I am wondering to what extent do rich people fear being taken advantage of because of their wealth? Making them do things like never treat at dinner and such?

I had a habit of treating my Friend who was worth several millions, so as not to give him any reason to resent me as a mooch. Stupid habit, he never noticed.

Oh Lord, but he was cheap! He drank powdered milk, I recall, and bought in bulk. Though. I don’t think he started rich.

R80, I have no doubt that your friend’s father is cheap; however, just as info, you never actually make money by donating to charity.

That guy may have gotten a tax write-off, but all that means is that his donations were less costly than they seem by a small fraction, perhaps 40% or so. A million dollar donation would therefore cost the donor about $600,000. Just fyi

I had a roommate who was cheap. Or maybe just an asshole. After considerable time without toilet paper, I told him, finally and firmly, that it was his turn to buy it. He then [italic] stole it [/italic] from the law firm in which he was an intern. He’s a lawyer now.

Being cheap is when you expect other people to pay for and fund your lifestyle, such as going to lunch and waiting for the other person to pick up the check.

Being cheap is when you do get the most expensive meal when you're splitting the bill, but the cheapest when you're paying.

Being cheap is when you expect gifts from other people, but don't reciprocate or reciprocate with a ledger running at the back of your mind.

Spending your money carefully is not cheap. Making smart choices, recycling or reusing (not re-gifting, a whole separate topic), buying stuff on sale or looking for a bargain - none of these are cheap. The one grey area is perhaps giving to charity. Not giving to charities is not necessarily cheap and no one is required to do so. As someone once said, "I have my own problems," so funding charities is a matter of personal choice, not moral rectitude.

[quote]Being cheap or frugal by doing without and living beneath your means is a responsible way to provide for yourself and have a comfortable future.

This is me all over. HOWEVER, I'm 66 now, and should be enjoying the fruits of my years of frugality. My net worth is over $2 million. I have no children, siblings, nieces or nephews. My house is paid for. My pension is over $100K/year. I have over half a million in cash in the bank. But yet I cannot change my ways. I'm not cheap about other people -- I will pick up checks and I tip well. I do a lot of volunteer work and always contribute more -- I bake cookies for events, etc. But I cannot force myself to shop at expensive stores, fly first class, stay in nice hotels. I've never even gotten a massage.

R89, I’m not quite in your situation, at all, actually, but I’m doing ok and I completely identify with your comments. I’ve been a “good consumer”, that’s what I call it, for 30 years and is hard to splurge now.

I drive a 2005 Honda that I bought used. Every mechanic exclaimed that it’s a pearl. That happened within the last few weeks, again. It’s due to be replaced which I resist because it's a chore to be frugal and shop wisely.

I do splurge on vacation. Oops, I do get discounts on airfare (FF miles) and hotels (Friends & Family discount), but after that, I don’t fuss with euros, though maybe I should. The cabbies are always really grateful for their tip, so I wonder, did I just tip $100, haha.

Anyway, it’s hard to change after 30 years of frugality, I agree.

I like to pay for dinner when friends visit me and my city. What is money for? But I’m usually frugal.

R80 here. I'm not sure of the reasoning behind it, all I know is the man is OBSESSED with screwing Uncle Sam. I always thought charitable donations were written off of current income, meaning if you make a million and donate a million, you don't really have any income income to write off. I'm guessing this guy received millions over the years and now his obsession is making sure he doesn't pay any taxes on anything he gets now. I just laugh at "Well I donated a building for you, at the college you didn't attend! Why aren't you thanking me?" And all the while my friend is working as a bartender on the weekends to buy a roof.

I hesitate to say which college it is, but on Youtube I found a few ceremonies honoring the father, who seems to bask in the attention. One news piece for the dedication of the college when they renamed it for his dad on YT, my friend was sitting in the front row with his sister. And yet my friend still maintains a relationship with his dad enough to see him a few times a year. My friend is the complete opposite of his father; he's very generous. He ALWAYS tries to pay when we go out and is a big overtipper (he is a longtime service industry worker).

Again, I vacillate between "your kids aren't owed anything" and "It would be nice if you would help them out." I think at some point, you could say, "Hey kids, I'll contribute to your mortgages up to the gift tax amount this year. No cash but I will help you." That I think is reasonable but for some reason, pathological cheapness and selfishness clouds the vision of reasonableness.

op you live on fantasy island. not paying with a credit card when you can afford to pay cash is wise not cheap or frugal or anything else. you dumb fuck.

R89 Good for you! What do you think of this: give a generous donation to a favorite cause or charity so you can experience the gratitude while you can.

Get that massage. You deserve it!

My sister in law is cheap. She’s also a raging narcissist. She thinks the world should pay for her.

(She’s the one I wrote about who served me & my husband about 2 ounces of pasta for dinner and 1 small piece of Italian bread. My husband asked for more pasta and she said she didn’t have any. So he asked for another piece of bread to soak up the remains of sauce on his plate & she said she there was no bread left. There were four of us, so I brought 4 cream puffs for dessert. She cut 2 cream puffs in half and served us each half a cream puff.)

I hope you have cut off all contact, [R95].

^ I hope so to because that crappy treatment gets progressively worse over the years, not better. If you don't gradually cut off all contact (let it fizzle out instead of ghosting them) the day will arrive where you regret that decision and look back on the time you wasted just being in the relationship even if you don't get together that often.

I just hope frugal/cheap people stay away from consumerism-with-friends situations.

We’re gathering for each other’s company. You, going on a marathon best-value campaign, ruin it for everyone.

OP, I am assuming you know of people who just love to buy things they don't really need because it makes them feel good or gives them some type of high. They have clothes they bought years ago with the tags still on them today.

Well the opposite can be true, some people just get a high or good feeling when they can get a bargain, so save money. When they see their bank account grow, or their FICO score, it makes them feel good. Spending money makes them feel bad, there is some feeling of guilt if you buy something that you don't really have to buy.

I am like that to some degree, although I will never cheap out when treating others. Actually I would much rather buy something for someone else than myself. Buying something for myself doesn't feel good, buying for someone else does feel good, not spending money at all feels the best. I have no problem buying what is needed, just if I don't really need it, why buy it, I would rather have the money.

My mother had a friend who was rather wealthy but she would recycle greeting cards. She would cross off anything written on the card sent to her and write her own new greeting like "Happy Birthday, Marilyn" I have no idea where she got the new envelopes. This was before the day of dollar stores. Now that is cheap.

R100, my Gram did the same.

R92, my great aunt and her husband, a former BoA vice president, loved having college buildings or wings named after them, too. Her husband made his fortune with her share of the family money (dad's side of the family, but he was iced out because he objected to his father abandoning his mom when she got ill).

When my great aunt died, she left her only blood relatives, a handful of nieces and nephews, token amounts. The rest stays with her husband and he has already announced it's all going to yet another college building with his name on it and a nephew of his living in another country.

But he lurves Murica and is a big Trump fan, so I'm assuming Trump got some of the money too.

[quote] R92: [R80] here. I'm not sure of the reasoning behind it, all I know is the man is OBSESSED with screwing Uncle Sam

My bro in law is the same. In order to do so, in his mind, I mean, he “invested” $100,000 in three antique coins. Now, the tax treatment for “collectibles” is special, and awful. Not like stocks. But, it is untracked by the tax man. He held those coins for 20 years. He then sold them. He got $30,000. Only $30,000! After 20 years!

If he had the paperwork, he could write off the $70,000 loss, but he doesn’t. Plus, I think it was untaxed income in the first place. I’m so ashamed to write this.

If he paid taxes in the first place, then invested it like a normal person, he’d have, maybe, $200,000. Instead of $30,000. And it would all be legal. He buried the $30,000 in the backyard until he paid a contractor with it. I think it’s a mental illness, as I write/read this, it’s so weird.

^The tax treatment for collectibles is the same as regular income, maybe 25%. Stocks can be taxed at 15% if managed (easily and) properly.

^I mean his $100,000 principle shrunk to $30,000. Not that his profit was $30,000.

^My bro in law was also hiding the original $100,000 from his sister, as it was an inheritance. I don’t want to know more, but it sounds sleazy, and why wouldn’t it be?

Money may make the world go round, but it makes people crazy, too.

The difference with collectibles is that they can't be used as investments in retirement plans.

Oh - another thing about my cheap sister in law (who I only see at funerals, then leave in my own car & get the hell outta there while my husband does the after-funeral stuff).

She has never filed income tax.

She deliberately made the highest salary of someone who doesn’t file taxes. I don’t kniw what it is now, but back in the day it was about $6k. She worked when she felt like it — off the books mostly — and always got a man to share her rent with her. So, you say, now she’s gonna get the lowest social security monthly payment there is, right?

Nope.

She’s on her third or fourth husband and he’s a big earner, so she’s going to get half the amount of his social security payment. For example, (using low numbers to make it easy) if her husband is going to get $2000 a month, she’ll get $1000 a month.

Remember — she never filed income tax in her entire life. It’s because she’s a cheap, stingy bitch, but she always cloaked it in a “not gonna let The Man know anything about me” ruse. Doesn’t want Big Brother on her back., surveilling her in any way.

She’s such a rancid cunt.

I wore shoes with holes in them to school, didn’t have have enough to eat so that my teeth were ruined and had stunted growth. My parents told me I couldn’t go to college because they had no money and I couldn’t take loans out because they’d have to co-sign (it was only years later I found out this wasn’t true). Everything in my life was cut rate. I could never have a Christmas gift I asked for - it had to be a cheap imitation of what I’d asked for.

My father died in 1990 and my mother found close to $80,000 in cash stashed around the house. My father didn’t trust banks. That $80,000 was saved up in the 50s, 60s, 70s & 80s. It would have been worth so much more when he started squirreling it away. We could’ve had decent food, clothes, teeth and they could’ve paid for college. But because my parents were so cheap they wouldn’t spend money on us. They wanted it all to themselves as a “nest egg” for retirement. My father died one year after he retired and never got to spend it. All that money....for nothing.

[quote]Remember — she never filed income tax in her entire life.

If she was married as much as you said, there's no way in hell she didn't file a joint return with her husband during that time.

It is not my nature to be cheap but I am so broke, I'm cheap.

The corporate world is so mean and heartless I am glad for anyone who can escape early.

Trump is cheap beyond belief...do you think he wears cheap suits? He never in his life gave to a charity. He is possibly one of the worst people on earth. As you can see, he and Jared allowed the nasty murder of Kashoggi. What a bunch of slimy shitstains.

R95 What did she do with the leftover cream puffs?

R95 stories fascinate me because my SIL is the same way.

It’s a crazy way to live and act

Some of these people are actually mentally ill. Cream puff lady definitely.

The man with the buildings named after him is just a huge asshole.

^ FYI, most assholes, male and female, are mentally ill.

When women act like assholes, like cream puff lady, they are called mentally ill (which they are) but when men act like assholes they are just called assholes, even though they too are mental.

[quote] When women act like assholes, like cream puff lady, they are called mentally ill (which they are) but when men act like assholes they are just called assholes, even though they too are mental.

Hi Eldergay, I'm the one you responded to.

There is a difference: what cream puff lady is doing--the extreme and ridiculous parsimony accomplishes nothing except making her look like a weirdo. It is absolutely purposeless--except for some secret purpose living inside her head, and she doesn't have the self-awareness to understand how stupid she looks.

The rich guy--who is ostentatiously giving his wealth away when his son lives like a pauper, who is very demonstrably committing his son to trips he cannot afford--has a purpose: he's trying to show the kid who's boss, trying to make him feel bad about himself, highlighting the difference in their financial statuses in the most demonstrable way he can.

It's a one-up (or more than one!) status move, and rich people (assholes) so this to their family and their rich frenemies all the fricking time.

[quote] If she was married as much as you said, there's no way in hell she didn't file a joint return with her husband during that time.

She didn't live in the US for the entirety of her second marriage. Her first marriage was at age 17 and she did not work at all. Her first husband worked cash only as a truck driver for a moving company owned by a relative. It wasn't until they were divorced that he started his own company. Crazy thing about her first marriage - they were both cheating on each other within 6 months, according to my husband.

In her second marriage, only her husband cheated on her. After they divorced, she stayed in the country for 3 years to make sure she got the alimony the divorce judge agreed to. She slept with her 2nd husband for those 3 years on weekends & they went on holiday together. She thought he would come back to her.

In the divorce settlement, , he'd been unable to see the woman he was cheating with for 3 years after the divorce as a stipulation to her giving him a divorce (I don't know if that's allowed in the US). He was to pay her alimony for 3 years.

As soon as the 3 years were up, he married the woman he'd been cheating with.

It was sordid.

She came back & lived with her parents until she found a man to move in with. They got married a few years later. Oh, I forgot - one of the reasons they moved out of the condo in NJ is because she insisted on having a dog. Her husband agreed and she came home from the pound with a pit bull, which got into trouble with a smaller dog. She claimed the smaller dog attacked the pit bull at the elevator, but my husband said they were threatened with a lawsuit and that's one of the reasons the husband agreed to sell.

A funny thing - the woman her 2nd husband cheated with and married looked very much like her and was from the same religious/ethnic background as she was (he wasn't). Obviously, he had a type. I haven't looked at his Facebook for years, but he and his second wife moved to London and later divorced.

R116 Well, I suppose when you spell it out that way, what can I say... except...

But then the power-tripping, control freak rich dad who gets off withholding from his son who lives like a pauper, to me that is abnormal behavior. There doesn't seem to be anything normal about that screwed up, rather sadistic mentality.