RIP KAY(E) BALLARD!

I suspect anyone who knew who she was, died before her, so I doubt you'll get a response.

I thought she had already died. Ooops!

Aww...I always like her. The 'Mothers-in-Law' was the first sitcom I remember watching as a family, 1967-69.

Her life was.....complicated.

Now that she ish dead, I can tell the truth:

The shong "Maybe Thish Time" wash written for me.

The only thing I know her from is an episode of Alice.

Did she ever officially come out?

She was a breast cancer survivor having been diagnosed in 1994.

She was talented enough. But she was no Carol Channing.

Being married to Harry Mudd had to have been a strain

Her wiki page lists her death yesterday but I can't find an obit online.

Someone please get an armed guard on Chita Rivera. Now!

Here you go R11

I saw her in a production of FOLLIES.

[quote] Did DL see this one coming?

Actually someone started a thread about her still being alive, a few days ago.

KAYE BALLARD WAS A GODDESS.....

Why did people think that MOTHERS IN LAW was funny? It decidedly was NOT.

She was always funny on the original Hollywood Squares!

The Mothers-in-Law was not Desi Arnaz's best effort. It did produce this surrealistic clip with DL fav Desi Arnaz, Jr.

Inside Rancho Mirage: An interview with Kaye Ballard

Kaye and Robert Kennedy were born on the same date.

That Desert Sun obit is impossible to read with all the pop-ups and interruptions. I can't get to the part about her "complicated life."

^^^She slept with Liz Smith and never got the breaks she deserved, per her.

Who else was she involved with?

Ladies and gentlemen, the lady underneath this wig is comedienne Kayrle Ballard. Good night.

A friend in the desert told me last Thursday that she's been given last rites.

Did she have a relationship with Martha Raye?

Has Susan Dey commented?

They don't make them like this anymore.

She had one carpet I loved to munch.

I loved squeezing her titties.

Wow, CelebNetWorth says she had 78 million? How did she manage that? You wouldn't think that looking at her imdb. She stayed busy, but was basically on the sidelines her whole career.

I saw it coming.

R31 How does that website figure out and calculate people's wealth? Do they have a reputation for being accurate and reliable? Genuinely interested.

I have no idea how they calculate it. Their estimates are considered accurate enough, of course it couldn't be exact down to the dollar. Kaye had to be filthy rich if they're saying she had nearly 80 million. Married rich perhaps? She had a long career but was just a tv star, and not a huge one. I expected around 10-15 million.

Those celebrity net worth sites are full of shit. They had Dawn Wells being worth 7 million dollars, but when her needing money having a Go Fund Me put up, they suddenly dropped her net worth to 50 thousand.

Special relationship with Liz Smith. Who the hell is best friend. Myvanwy Jenn?

It sounds like she was a bit of prima donna (no auditioning) and could be nasty. I had an aunt who was said to be able to give you the shirt off her back and then stab you in the back---Kaye sounded similar.

Over the course of her decades-long career the projects she was associated with may have earned $78 million.

This site estimates her personal net worth as $8 million

They were probably right about Dawn having 7 million at one time, and then she lost it all at somehow.

The celeb net worth sites are full of it. I know somebody who's on there (his stardom was 40 years ago). They have his net worth at $10 million. He has a few thousand in the bank and a condo he rents. He lives off social security and his SAG benefits.

Was she married to a gay man named Mark Harris?

I guess the estimate sites have no way of knowing what happened to the money, after they earned it. A lot of celebs keep most of what they earn through good investments, so their estimates would be more accurate.

Carol Corn Channing

Kaye Ballard

What C Lister is next ?

Why do old celebrities want to end up in Palm Springs or other desert towns? I would NEVER retire there.

Jane Powell? r42

That was Martha Raye R40

It's probably generational---Palm Springs lost its luster around the time Ballard bought there. There probably are others out there in her age group, but I don't think it's been popular with celebs in ages. They tend to have multiple homes now and know better about that dry heat nonsense.

She lived for decades in a Palm Springs house formerly owned by Desi Arnaz, who was the producer of her TV show The Mothers-in-Law. Desi gifted her with the house when they were doing the TV series. It's on a street now officially named Kaye Ballard Lane.

Celebrity net worth is not accurate. I know someone who is listed as $40,000,000 and in their divorce it was revealed she had $2,800,000 after debts, including homes. But many stars make money elsewhere. Joel McCrea was probably the first actor to be worth $100,000,000 butthat was from land. and Lance Armstrong, who was nearly wiped out, could be worth well over a Billion should either Uber or Airbnb go public. Forgot which one he invested in very early. He's still a liar and a uniball.

I worked on a project of hers in the 1980's. She was desperate for money, rumored to be $100,000 in debt. If she had not been, she would not be doing a one-woman show in a small Off-Broadway theater. she wanted to establish it in New York and then be able to tour it for years to come, thereby having an income.

But that was okay, not great. But she made one mess after another. There was only one more booking after the Off-Broadway run closed and that was at the Kennedy Center. She made a hash of that, too. when that engagement closed, everyone said goodbye to Miss Ballard and that was the end of that.

And any theater queen on this board will be able to tell you she didn't do anything that would make her 80 million dollars in the last 30 years.

And Hollywood Squares. I've never been more embarrassed for Glenn Ford than when she jumped on his lap.

Dawn Wells - whose only real acting work was over 50 years ago for 3 seasons of GILLIGAN'S ISLAND - for which she infamously never received residuals - was never worth $8 million.

Kaye Ballard probably hadn't earned a dime in many years. She probably had a comfortable SAG pension, and may have invested the rest of her money wisely, but she was hardly rolling in the dough.

You'd be surprised how broke many well-known performers actually are.

r49, how do you mean "she made a mess" of things? Was she difficult to work with or simply didn't have the business chops to get the tour going? I wouldn't imagine even back in the early 80s that she's have much of a nmae to sell out a tour, much less an off-Broadway show.

She probably owned her home free and clear and picked up a few bucks here and there entertaining old queens.

I wouldn't want anyone to know my real worth if I did have the money. I'd cry poor at every chance. Keep the freeloaders at bay.

Would someone please check on Olivia de Havilland?

She hadn’t posted on this thread yet, and I am concerned.

Dear Kaye was 93 and I’ll be 39 in 2025, plus I played Livvie on FEUD. Good enough?

Kaye Ballard playing Bette Davis on To Tell The Truth.

Was young, but remember her from the Mothers-in-Law during the late '60s. That was a good series; however, it was on TV for just a couple of seasons.

R51 Many people seem to think actors get big bucks from residuals, and that's not the case for most.

She and Alice Ghostley were the stepsisters in the original TV production of Rodgers and Hammerstein's "Cinderella," starring Julie Andrews.

Working into her 90s

I understand Kaye asked her dear friend Liz Smith to introduce her to her dear friend singer Lena Horne in the 1950s, but Lena said, "no."

[quote]She lived for decades in a Palm Springs house formerly owned by Desi Arnaz, who was the producer of her TV show The Mothers-in-Law. Desi gifted her with the house when they were doing the TV series. It's on a street now officially named Kaye Ballard Lane.

It's the least he could do because he notoriously paid her next to nothing for The Mothers-in-Law.

Rex Reed loved Kaye Ballard because they look like they were separated at birth.

Say what you want, for someone who was almost always a second banana, no movie leads, and no series earning residuals, she did pretty damn well accumulating 8 million dollars. Remember KIDS, tv celebrities didnt make big bucks OR get residuals until the last several decades....unless they owned part of the show. Thats why you have people like Kaley Cuoco, Kim Kardashian, etc with net worths that make established LEGENDS seem like paupers.

I want to eat out Liz Smith’s snatch.

Barbara Walters no longer remembers what her sexuality was.

Always, Always You from CARNIVAL. Great singing:

I'm no musician but didn't Kaye always sound just a tad flat when she sang? Not even sure "flat" is the correct term, but I think you know what I mean.

[R57] Kaye Ballard had the best Bette Davis-like answer to one of the questions.

Peggy Cass: What school does your son Michael go to?

Kaye Ballard: That's none of your business.

Did she do the scissors thing with Alice Ghostly?

Some comments from Kaye from "Broadway: The Golden Age," on how the Broadway work ethic has changed over the years.

Channing, Ballard . . . and who's going to be the third?

[quote]Say what you want, for someone who was almost always a second banana, no movie leads, and no series earning residuals, she did pretty damn well accumulating 8 million dollars.

Assuming she actually accumulated that much, which to me sounds very doubtful.

[quote]I'm no musician but didn't Kaye always sound just a tad flat when she sang? Not even sure "flat" is the correct term, but I think you know what I mean.

No, she didn't. And with all due respect, if you don't know what you're talking about -- and you don't, by your own admission -- you should probably not say anything.

Sorry, dears but even I can’t say 93 was too young.

Can someone give me legal advice ? If a case is dropped by the Supreme Court what is the next step ?

For you, R22

[quote]Can someone give me legal advice ? If a case is dropped by the Supreme Court what is the next step ?

The Heavenly Court. Just pray that your sister Joan won't be on the jury.

R46 don't tell Charles Farrell or Vern Albright.

If Kaye lived rent and mortagage-free in her home all these years, that would have been a considerable savings on her bank account.

Will the house ownership revert to Desi Jr. now?

I am posting another Kaye Ballard datalounge thread that's nastier.

Kaye spent a couple of seasons as the Italian lady whose restaurant was under Doris Day's apartment.....on The Doris Day Show.....

Did her pussy stink?

When they say she had a complicated ‘personal ‘ life does that mean she was a lesbian ?

I remember her from appearances on "The Perry Como Show." 'Oh Perra-luh!!!'

She gets trashed for her role in "The Mothers-in-Law" but I found her OTT performances hysterical. Perhaps because I have/had several "Kayes" in my own family. It was enjoyable to see Arden and Ballard doing Ball/Vance schtick.

Kaye, who was Italian, said she once greeted Sinatra with, "Hello, Paisano!" Sinatra shot her a dirty look and said, "I'm AMERICAN."

R73: Third what? Is dead legend enough or does it have to be a dead legend who lives in Rancho Mirage?

R86 = very naive

I can't be the only one who remembers Kaye's small but brilliant turn in the movie version of "The Ritz" as Mrs. Vespucci, who comes to the gay bathhouse frantically looking for her husband Carmine (in hiding from her Mobster brother). When she sees hubby in drag for the talent show, she bites her finger while exclaiming the pretty much untranslatable dialect lament "Managgia l'America."

A movie with lots of great performances, led of course by Rita Moreno as Googie Gomez.

I elect Alex Borstein to play her in the MOW about her life.

Yup, you're the only one R88.

R13's article is a really good read. Seriously! Thanks, R13. I learned a great deal.

FOLLIES

I'm pleased to see all the responses here commemorating Kaye.

I would imagine she would be totally unknown to most people under 50.

Madeline Sherwood

[quote]Barbara Walters no longer remembers what her sexuality was.

Well, I don't wemember engaging in any wesbianism, weawwy...bwisket, when did I eat bwisket

For some reason I have a vivid memory of Kaye on "The Merv Griffin Show," all glammed up and preparing to do a big number. She gave a dramatic introduction, something along the lines of, "and now, ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to present the song that received this year's Academy Award." She then burst into "The Theme from 'Shaft.'"

"I would imagine she would be totally unknown to most people under 50."

You're INSANE, R93. Have you not heard of The Mothers in Law??????

Some of us wish we could foregt that awful show. Lucy writers dredging up the same drek they'd been writing since the 40s. There's a reason "All in The Family", MASH, MTM, etc. seemed revolutionary and funny--it was because the late 60s were filled with aful, predictable sitcoms written by thesame hackls who'd been writing them for ages and constatntly recycling the same ideas.

I remember seeing her in The Ritz

R57, #2 was robbed!

I better be in the Oscars "in memoriam" reel, MOTHERFUCKERS!

Her memoir has some good stories, including one about witnessing Barbra snap at a fan who interrupted her dinner to ask for an autograph.

[quote]What I can't understand is how, once you reach the "star" level, you can be rude to the people who put you there.

You tell 'em Kaye, and R.I.P.

r98, you're perfect correct, but if I remember correctly, the Lucy writers kept working into the 80s, on acclaimed shows like Cheers.

Eve Arden has been gone a long time. 9/11 feels like it was a million years ago, but she’d been dead 11 years when it happened.

I was surprised to see how much older Eve was than Kaye. I always thought they were about the same age.

R102, it would be better if she wrote about a fan interrupting her smooching session with Mary Martin.

Kaye Ballard

We're waiting Susan Dey. Say something!!

Not under 50, r93, but probably under 45. She was basically doing guest star bits and game shows by the 1970s. I'm 47 and knew her only as one of many older stage stars who appeared on things like The Gong Show and Love Boat.

When Shirley Jones dies and Dey doesn’t say anything she is truly a bitch.

The Oscars are for movie stars. I will be surprised if Kaye is mentioned. She did The Ritz and ...... if they didn’t do ANNE Meagan they won’t do her. Please tell me to go to hell if I’m wrong.

I had her fired, it was the right thing to do.

We were MUCH happier without her.

Anne Meara.

I tired to watch The Mother In Laws but stopped is Desi Arne started making too many appearances like that was going to help ratings. He looked like he had seen better days.

r113

He was a loser, that's right I married a loser

R47, Not a gift at all. Desi allowed Kaye to purchase the house without a down payment.

Desi wasn’t a loser.

Though a devout lesbian, Kaye claimed to have fucked Brando in his prime and thoroughly enjoyed it. They remained friends until his death.

r116 meet r114

You get it from someone who knows.

She was in the running to play Mame - there's a recording of her and Lansbury both auditioning with Jerry Herman on piano.

She was supposed to be a semi-regular on my show, but I saw she was better than me, so I never had her back

Is she saying she's straight? Bi? Or has a female partner but just doesn't like the label gay?

"Ballard, suddenly turning interviewer, herself, had a particular question she wanted to ask me, why is it, if a woman is strong, why do they think she's gay? In my early life, I did everything twice, and I found myself after 40, thinking, This is ridiculous. I am only happy working and with my dogs, but so many people terrorize you, saying, Come out and say something! But I'm nothing. At the moment, I have someone who takes care of me, a friend for 40 years, but nothing! Why do they automatically think you have to make a declaration? I'm glad that Ellen and Rosie have done it, but I have no reason to do that and won't.

They used to say that about June Havoc, who had a lady with her all her life, who was like a nun. It was such a joke. June was one of the most wonderful people, totally heterosexual. All of my friends are gay and I love everybody for what they are, not what they do in bed. I don't give a damn and don't understand this attitude

She licked snatch.

What did she mean in that interview when she said: "In my early life, I did everything twice....."

What does that have to do with her sexuality? Am I being dense?

Have any of her obits mentioned her being lesbian? Or even hinted?

Also, has Doris Day commented? Kaye was regular on her show and they were supposedly friends.

r124 meet r111

[R123]

I think she's saying when she was young, she tried everything, she experimented.

To include sex, drugs, partying.....

Once a philosopher, twice a pervert...

R121, Kaye, like her close friend Liz Smith, liked to identify as "nothing" since she wasn't sexually active. Like sexual orientation is defined by activity. Ed Koch used the same excuse.

Since Kaye Ballard did not "come out" as lesbian, it's not going to be in her obituaries. In a few years when other people publicly testify that they knew her as a lesbian, it will show up in her Wiki page. Then someone will delete it.

[quote]Wow, CelebNetWorth says she had 78 million? How did she manage that?

If the house that Desi gave her is part of that net worth package, then this could be a close guesstimate.

She didn't suck my cock.

R92, I saw the clip from Follies on a different platform and all I can about her performance is, that ladies and gentlemen is how you see a song. There's no choreography and yet, you don't take your eyes off Kaye. She's engaged, emotive, looks at and connects with audience members. I wish I had seen the Follies production in Jersey, I wish it had transferred to NYC.

I wish she had continue to work in NY on stage...

One obit said she had a complicated personal life. I don’t know what that means.

Her sex life would make Tallulah Bankhead blush.

Even as child when I watched her on MIL there was something about her acting that was different. Now I know it's called chewing up the scenery. She played for the back row, people.

[quote]I had her fired, it was the right thing to do. We were MUCH happier without her. —Doris "I'm Still Alive" Day

Gee, she thought the world of you, Doris.

Maxwell Sheffield's fondness for Kaye Ballard (and telling his "funny Kaye Ballard stories") was somewhat of a running joke on THE NANNY. Not to the degree of CATS & the ALW rivalry, obviously, but it was mentioned a few times.

I can't recall which episode she was first mentioned, but I remember it was during an exchange in the office about Max being square/un-hip -- or his productions were. Something like that. Max protests; he's hip!

Fran replies (paraphrasing): "Right. Because nothing says 'hip' like a revival of MAME, starring Kaye Ballard."

Max is aghast & has a huffy, overboard reaction (again, paraphrasing): "I'll have you know that Kaye Ballard is an incredible talent, and an icon of American musical theater!"

Fran just sorta stares at him with a raised eyebrow as he goes on about Kaye, and then says aside (to herself/us), "The man has a thing for Kaye Ballard. Who knew?"

[quote] One obit said she had a complicated personal life

Lol. I guess "complicated" is code for "lesbian".

This was mentioned in the NYT obit. Kaye got a vote impersonating Bette Davis in To Tell the Truth, one of her stellar impressions.

r138, see r57, and try to keep up, dear.

Desi never gave Kay his house. She bought it. Lucy and Desi never gave anyone anything. They were both cheap fuckers, Lucy the absolute worst.

She was wonderful in the movie THE RITZ. Am I the only one who's seen that movie?

I know it seems funny to think that Doris Day fired her, but that show went through so many format changes in its 128 episode run, that I'm sure her departure was nothing personal. (She was only in 10 episodes, by the way...)

She ate my snatch.

She made a fabulous Garbanzo Beans a la King.

The other episode of THE NANNY with Kaye Ballard mentions all over it was during the final season. Maggie's new boyfriend is coming over for dinner, to meet Fran & Max for the first time. Maggie begs Max not to embarrass her. Max sarcastically suggests that maybe he should just stay locked up in his office the whole time. Maggie likes that idea, asks if Niles should bring him a tray.

MAX: "I am not hiding in my office. This is my house, I'll do as I please. And, if I want to tell my funny Kaye Ballard stories -- which always kill -- then, I shall."

Fran enters, Maggie rushes up to her: "Fran, do something! Say something!" (then, under her breath, through semi-clenched teeth). "Kaye Ballard."

Fran tells Maggie to just let her father be himself. If she's really serious about the guy, she can't hide her family forever, etc. Michael arrives. It's quickly revealed that he's an underwear model, and there's a big billboard of his butt, above one of Maxwell's marquees. Fran & Maggie are staring at his butt; Maggie comments to Fran that he looks even better without pants. Max overhears, and starts sputtering, "What?!!"

Fran immediately intervenes: "Honey! Why don't you go tell Michael one of your funny Kaye Ballard stories?!"

Max is immediately distracted by the mention of Kaye Ballard, and softens. Turns to Michael, excited, "Oh, do you know Kaye?!"

-----

Later in the episode, Maxwell finds out that Maggie has basically moved-in with Michael, after Fran unwittingly gave Maggie her "blessing". There's a silly chase through the house, to Looney-Toons type music. Fran runs through the foyer (thinking Max is hot on her heels), and opens the front door, to escape.

But Max is waiting there -- impossibly (like a cartoon) -- leaning on the door frame, arms folded, with a smug "gotcha" espression.

Fran can't believe it. She glances over his shoulder, points & exclaims: "Oh my god!! It's Kaye Ballard! Kaye Ballard!"

Max immediately turns, "KAYE?!?! Where?!?!"

Fran slams the door & runs away.

-----

That shit made me laugh out loud.

Only a fucking FOOL would quote "Maxwell Sheffield."

And only a fool would care what you think.

I feel pretty confident THE NANNY was the ONLY 90s sitcom on which Kaye Ballard was ever mentioned.

She ate my snatch!!

The Munchers-in-Law

Dear Eve R144, that is Garbanzo Beans alan King.

R148and that is one reason to love THE NANNY Channing was used for a really funny cameo appearance in one episode also

She played Matron in the Long Beach production of Chicago with Juliet Prowse and Bebe. She was actually really good and I was always surprised she never did it on Broadway.

[quote]I'm sure her departure was nothing personal. (She was only in 10 episodes, by the way...)

And that was TEN EPISODES TOO MANY

All I remember about The Doris Day Show every season Doris was a model on a runway.

Kaye indulged in the lez lez sex.

r135

The bitch put a pair of skates on my spiral staircase, you tell me why I hate her

I'll end up just like her. Started out in Cleveland and die in Palm Springs.

A friend did Kaye's hair at most of the big celeb events in Palm Springs. It was a riot to see all these old Hollywood babes like Kaye, Channing, Ginger Rogers, lined up waiting for hair and makeup banging their walkers and wheel chairs into each other while delivering one-liners left and right

As I recall from The Mothers In Law era:

I could not stand that awful show with Kaye and Eve Arden.

Kaye always sounded like she was difficult to get along with. My dad knew she was into the ladies...supposedly she and Keely Smith rubbed pussies.

Did your "dad" tell you that?

Kaye and Liz Smith looked-a-like in their hey day - dark bangs, big capped teeth, short and chunky. They even mentioned it during a LIVE-AT-FIVE interview back in the 1980s.

For reference:

Kaye’s true dykey appearance in The Mothers in Law has to be seen to be believed.

I licked her pussy.

I only recently learned that the daughter in The Mothers In Law died back in 2001.

Deborah Walley

I don't remember who played the son.

With Peter Marshall.

She worked cheap.

She was attractive in R161 ‘s pic. Love her eyes.

I always liked her. She was talented, but before you saw her talent you saw her drive & ambition. I think that held her back a bit. Ballard seemed to know she should’ve been a bigger star. Watch Paul Lynde’s Biography from the old A & E show. She tells a story about his out if control drinking at her housewarming party. So show biz meets depression era baby. Honest. Suffering no fools. A fabulous life in so many ways. She made the world a happier place.

Didn’t she play Mildred on McMillan & Wife?

Does anyone know how Kaye came to be cast as Helen (of Troy) in The Golden Apple?

Obviously, she was not predictable casting, even back then, though clearly she could sing the hell out of that song Lazy Afternoon. It says a lot about how much Broadway has changed over the years; a young woman with Kaye's ethnic and unconventional looks would be discouraged to pursue a career as a leading lady on Broadway now.

It was great seeing Lindsay Mendez play Helen in the recent Encores revival. Again, not predictable casting, but she was wonderful. Would she have been cast in a commercial Broadway revival? Not so sure.....

Kaye sings Fanny Brice.

We are glad she lived a long life.

We wished she could have lived forever in joy.

[quote]Didn’t she play Mildred on McMillan & Wife?

No, dear.

[quote]I don't remember who played the son.

Jerry Fogel. He's still alive.

In r161's pic, she looks like that weird Pauley Perrette person from NCIS.

Her dad sold pots and pans door to door.

People sold a lot of things door to door back them....just sayin.

Kaye also introduced "If You Hadn't But You Did"... not on Broadway, but on the road. The song, from the revue "Two on the Aisle", was taken away from her and given to the show's leading lady, DL fave Dolores Gray. Ballard left the show but she some revenge in her memoirs by sharing the anecdote that Bert Lahr, the top billed star of "Two on the Aisle", quipped that Dolores Gray had more holes in her face than a golf course.

She had Ross Hunter as a substitute teacher once. When she met him Hollywood, she brought that up. No word on his response.

[quote]A young woman with Kaye's ethnic and unconventional looks would be discouraged to pursue a career as a leading lady on Broadway now.

Are you on drugs? The truth is almost the opposite.

It is too bad Kaye never got to play Mama Morton in CHICAGO on Broadway. I'm guessing the Weisslers wouldn't have paid her enough money to make it worth her while to come and do the show in NYC when she lived on the west coast.

On the notorious Merv Griffin show, when Barbara Cook said her first show was Flahooley, Ballard let out a shriek of derision so nasty that even Merv had to inform her that they didn't laugh at her bombs.

Did she use Tide XK?

Attended Kaye’s service yesterday in Palm Desert. It was lovely. She was a great lady with talent to spare.

Kaye played Mrs. Brice in that benefit performance where there was a different Fanny in every scene.

Was Lucie there? They were close.

R186 Is a 3 pm funeral something specific to Other Desert Cities? Or California? I never heard of such a thing: Catholic, Protestant, or Jewish (sorry Hindus - never been asked to a Hindu funeral) services seem to be universally held at 9 or 10 am.

And how does the church condemn rug-munching then bury the muncher with full religious pomp and circumstance? This wasn't listed as a "Mass of Christian Burial" or some other cut-rate ceremonial which is usually what the priests insist on for lapsed or non-observant Catholics. This one's listed as "Funeral Mass for Kaye Ballard, Wednesday, January 30, 2019 at 3:00 PM" on the Sacred Heart RC church website.

She was Italian and Catholic. I don't see anything unusual.

She was Italian and Catholic and a lesbian. I'm not saying it's right, but #3 is usually enough to get you dispatched to the hereafter with minimal assistance from the Catholics.

R191, If she wasn't married to another female, then the Catholic Church would have no choice than to offer her a funeral Mass.

I get the whole "Love the sinner, hate the sin" thing Catholics believe in, but also recall two specific instances where gay men who died of HIV in the '80's were denied Catholic funerals despite having been baptized as Catholics (and one of whom was religious until he died.) Likewise, baptized Catholics who committed suicide were long denied full Catholic funeral rites. Has this changed?

On the other hand, both Frank Sinatra (married three women, fucked a lot more) and Bob Hope (married once, fucked a lot more than that if not as many as did Frank) were buried from a Catholic Church, as, more recently, was Whitey Bulger and he murdered a dozen people or more.

So I guess it has.

She wasn't out, so why would her church care? Just like 90% of the priests, and the other 10% pedo.