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How well do you know your table settings?

Do you eat out of Styrofoam containers or do you don your caftan and make and elaborate presentation at every meal?

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by Anonymousreply 229May 22, 2020 2:39 AM

Why doesn’t the demitasse match the rest of the service? The horror!

by Anonymousreply 1January 21, 2019 7:21 PM

Well enough to know that that’s not a fish knife in the OP picture.

by Anonymousreply 2January 21, 2019 7:23 PM

Where's the steak knife? How am I supposed to cut my meat with this gay little thingy?

by Anonymousreply 3January 21, 2019 7:24 PM

Why the fuck would you need a knife for salad?

by Anonymousreply 4January 21, 2019 7:25 PM

That place setting is for luncheon -- you would never put out a bread & butter plate for a formal dinner. And I can't imagine ever putting out a teacup and a demitasse together on the table (the demitasse is best offered after the meal in the drawing room). I will say that the soup cup is correct for luncheon, as a soup plate is for dinner only.

by Anonymousreply 5January 21, 2019 7:26 PM

R5 is my hero.

by Anonymousreply 6January 21, 2019 7:28 PM

I see all the waiters/ actors are doubling-down on this thread. Carry on, Jeeves.

by Anonymousreply 7January 21, 2019 7:32 PM

Watch me make r5 run screaming from the dinner table.

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by Anonymousreply 8January 21, 2019 7:41 PM

That looks like an every day dinner table during my childhood. Especially the pepper still in the container.

by Anonymousreply 9January 21, 2019 7:44 PM

I will admit that I don't know these things. It hasn't much hindered me (I don't think). But it's not as though I'm being invited to those sorts of soirees. I'm a working class guy. I don't scratch my crack or fart in public, but that's about it. My ex-BF is a very tidy, prim little guy. We were talking on the phone yesterday, and I had to compliment him, that his highest achievement was when one of his clients (he deals with mentally disadvantaged adults) shit himself in his car, and he had to figure out what to do. I was never more proud of him than at that moment. Dealing with other peoples' human biology has humanized him. He was always so very prissy before. He got over it.

by Anonymousreply 10January 21, 2019 7:50 PM

Not only is that not a fish knife, that's not a fish fork either. And, both the seafood fork and the demitasse spoon are from different patterns.

by Anonymousreply 11January 21, 2019 8:27 PM

Plus, whether that is a bouillon cup or a cream soup cup, the spoon is wrong because that is neither a bouillon spoon nor a cream soup spoon.

by Anonymousreply 12January 21, 2019 8:38 PM

How do you cut your wedge salad, R4 -- by mashing it with the side of your fork like an animal?

by Anonymousreply 13January 21, 2019 8:39 PM

Welcome to another edition of "Pimp My Table Setting."

by Anonymousreply 14January 21, 2019 9:02 PM

[quote]Why the fuck would you need a knife for salad?

[quote]How do you cut your wedge salad, [R4] -- by mashing it with the side of your fork like an animal?

And thusly, we get an answer to both questions in one fell swoop.

The one asks why do you need a knife to cut your hamburger at a formal dinner while the other thinks it's the epitome of class to do so.

by Anonymousreply 15January 21, 2019 9:17 PM

Every gay man should know how to make his way around a proper table setting Its just a matter of time until you're put to the test and when you fail you'll never recover from the humiliation.

by Anonymousreply 16January 21, 2019 9:21 PM

I knew I was in trouble when I took a sip from a finger bowl. If glares could kill.....

by Anonymousreply 17January 21, 2019 9:27 PM

R17 =

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by Anonymousreply 18January 21, 2019 9:30 PM

I know enough to know that, for the silverware, you start at the outside and work your way in with each course. And I know the difference between the various wine glasses.

And while we're sort of on the subject, which style of eating do you prefer? The Continental style where you keep your fork in your left hand with tines pointed down, pile your food onto the back of the fork, then raise it to your mouth with your left hand? Or the American style where you hold your fork in your left hand while cutting with the knife in your right, then placing the knife on the edge of the plate and switching the fork to your right before raising it to your mouth?

The Continental style is said to be the more elegant way. But usually when I witness someone eating that way, they pile the food on the fork into a huge gob and then lean over their plate with a gaping maw while they shove the food into their piehole. It doesn't seem elegant at all. The American style may consist of a lot of unnecessary movements, but it doesn't cause you to look like a caveman when you eat. At least if you do it right.

by Anonymousreply 19January 21, 2019 9:37 PM

Does anyone happen to know the name of the design/pattern of the flatware/silverware? Thank you in advance.

R19, I am used to the American style. At this point, I would feel stupid trying to use Continental style, with the fork tines facing down, etc.

by Anonymousreply 20January 21, 2019 9:41 PM

No, no, R19, watch out for the shit storm coming your way.

by Anonymousreply 21January 21, 2019 9:44 PM

I know enough never to invite you, pretentious cunt.

by Anonymousreply 22January 21, 2019 9:48 PM

I'll share the easy hack I learned as a kid on how to set a table:

Fork and Left both have 4 letters, so the fork goes on the left Knife, Spoon and Right all have 5 letters, so they go on the right, and K comes before S, so Knife goes before Spoon

If there's more than one of anything, you put the one you'll use first (which is almost always the smaller one) on the outside.

by Anonymousreply 23January 21, 2019 9:52 PM

^^and if you're getting any fancier than that, let the caterer figure it out

by Anonymousreply 24January 21, 2019 9:53 PM

Should I be insulted that my female boss calls me a schvartze?

by Anonymousreply 25January 21, 2019 9:54 PM

Only if she starts leaving a $5 bill on her desk when you're in there and she's not R25

by Anonymousreply 26January 21, 2019 9:57 PM

The day I care about table settings is the day I hope I die.

by Anonymousreply 27January 21, 2019 10:05 PM

Silly people. That setting is for illustration purposes only and not meant to be an actual setting for a meal.

Here's a good dose of pretension

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by Anonymousreply 28January 21, 2019 10:08 PM

What are the first utensils on the left and right?

by Anonymousreply 29January 21, 2019 10:10 PM

They are for cleaning your nostrils before the soup course.

by Anonymousreply 30January 21, 2019 10:11 PM

In 29? caiar spoon (R) and snail fork (L).

by Anonymousreply 31January 21, 2019 10:15 PM

R28 caviar spoon ......

by Anonymousreply 32January 21, 2019 10:15 PM

The Victorians invented the complicated table settings, a Georgian flatware setting is much simpler.

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by Anonymousreply 33January 21, 2019 10:20 PM

what I want to know is, how are you supposed to serve everything? You see the nice plates when they set the tables, are the plates supposed to be there the whole time?

by Anonymousreply 34January 21, 2019 10:21 PM

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

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by Anonymousreply 35January 21, 2019 10:41 PM

R34, the plate in the middle gets swapped out, depending on the course. For example, a large plate for the main course, a smaller plate for the salad, a bowl for the soup, etc.

by Anonymousreply 36January 21, 2019 10:55 PM

The profusion of dining implements was, indeed, an invention of the Victorians -- and not the English, but the American upper class and upper middle class. You don't really see too many (or any) English silver sets from the 19th century with all sorts of odd pieces -- pickle forks and pie forks and "Saratoga Chip" (potato chips) servers. At one point in America in the early 20th century there were 213 separate flatware or serving pieces that could be part of a silver service. It would be unusual to find anything comparable in either English or Continental silver sets of the same time period.

To answer the question from R20, the sterling pattern appears to be Gorham's Strasbourg, first produced in 1897.

by Anonymousreply 37January 21, 2019 10:59 PM

R37, thanks so much! I'm gonna look for a knock-off now, lol. Do you happen to know of a knock-off, made by Oneida or something like that? Thank you so much, again.

by Anonymousreply 38January 21, 2019 11:02 PM

I actually own a caviar spoon (mother of pearl). I've never used it, though. There's a guy in San Francisco who makes them, and sells them on-line. I sent a photo of mine to a friend, and he said his wife saw the photo, and laughed until she burst into tears. So it was well worth it.

by Anonymousreply 39January 21, 2019 11:04 PM

What is so hilarious about a caviar spoon? Whatever you do, don't show her an Angel Food Cake knife.

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by Anonymousreply 40January 21, 2019 11:16 PM

My grandmother had one of those, r40, in Francis I.

by Anonymousreply 41January 21, 2019 11:18 PM

I'd be more likely to use an Angel Food cake knife than a caviar spoon, although I only own a caviar spoon. My friend's wife laughed at me because she thinks I'm a very pretentious, twee, twit. I'll accept all of that, except for pretentious. I'm actually not. I'm just a silly gay guy.

by Anonymousreply 42January 21, 2019 11:27 PM

Why not buy some roe and enjoy it AND your spoon. Its a wonderful taste. Doesn't need to be caviar.

by Anonymousreply 43January 21, 2019 11:30 PM

Well, R20 / R38, I'm not sure what you mean by knockoff. If you want stainless patterns, I'm sure you can find some. If you want a silverplate pattern, try Gorham's French Classic. It's not an exact duplicate of Strasbourg, but close enough, and you should be able to find it on the secondary market (eBay, etsy and the like) for relatively little money. Silverplated flatware was quite popular for about 100 years, but is now largely forgotten and all those sets go unsold in antique shops and at auctions.

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by Anonymousreply 44January 21, 2019 11:31 PM

I like silver-plate and that example is bad. It's in poor condition.

by Anonymousreply 45January 21, 2019 11:35 PM

Ghastly! The term “serviette” is horribly non-U.

by Anonymousreply 46January 21, 2019 11:44 PM

Tines up or tines down?

by Anonymousreply 47January 21, 2019 11:44 PM

R8 I love that you don't waste time or energy transferring the pepper to a shaker. Pure class.

by Anonymousreply 48January 22, 2019 12:09 AM

R44, thank you. I was the one who asked about the pattern and the knock-off. I'll check out silver plated and Gorham's French Classic.

by Anonymousreply 49January 22, 2019 12:15 AM

There are good things on your table at R8. The pyrex glass tartine dish, the utilitarian salt shaker, the mismatched candles on aluminum cans (odd, and inspired), the Revere pot right on the table. The rest is quite bad, the 2nd worst being the drinking glass jar, and the worst being the centerpiece. Take that off the table before it catches on fire!

by Anonymousreply 50January 22, 2019 12:15 AM

R37, Wasn't the proliferation of dining implements an attempt to show wealth and status, sort of a class distinction? You seem to be knowledgeable, please continue to discuss when, why and how it came about. Thanks.

by Anonymousreply 51January 22, 2019 12:18 AM

oversized heavy French hotel silver plate vintage cutlery is quite nice. If you find it in little used states, the plating is thick and it takes polish beautifully.

by Anonymousreply 52January 22, 2019 12:18 AM

Where do the straws go?

by Anonymousreply 53January 22, 2019 12:20 AM

I need only one fork and knife, labelled tofu/soy product fork and tofu/soy product knife.

by Anonymousreply 54January 22, 2019 12:28 AM

you must have bitch tits and periods, with all that soy, dear.

by Anonymousreply 55January 22, 2019 12:39 AM

Is R55 a big fat person? Big through the hips? Roomy?

by Anonymousreply 56January 22, 2019 12:47 AM

Who gives a shit about this ?

by Anonymousreply 57January 22, 2019 12:47 AM

[quote]Who gives a shit about this ?

???????????

Gurl....

by Anonymousreply 58January 22, 2019 12:48 AM

The Silver Vaults in London are magnificent for finding beautiful vintage pieces and small silver gifts. Always a hit.

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by Anonymousreply 59January 22, 2019 12:53 AM

[quote] Wasn't the proliferation of dining implements an attempt to show wealth and status, sort of a class distinction? You seem to be knowledgeable, please continue to discuss when, why and how it came about. Thanks.

Precisely. While the overabundance of dining implements took place over many decades -- it began in the post-Civil War era of the 1870s and 1880s -- but really took hold in the 1890s through the start of WWI. It catered to this Victorian notion that fingers should never touch food, which is why they developed dining pieces for so many foods.

And, yes, it was a way to distinguish your family from those who were not as affluent. So, you would set a much better table, and have more silver and finer china and crystal. In the latter part of the 19th century, New York and most major cities had shops devoted to china, crystal, and silver, as did high end jewelry stores. Most of that gradually grew out of fashion through the 20th century and you can find most of those items only at auctions and antique stores.

by Anonymousreply 60January 22, 2019 12:56 AM

[quote] I like silver-plate and that example is bad. It's in poor condition.

Good lord. I was looking for a photo of the pattern -- not trying to sell that set to him.

by Anonymousreply 61January 22, 2019 12:58 AM

R57...

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by Anonymousreply 62January 22, 2019 1:02 AM

R2 / r11 only the aspiring middle classes use fish forks. It is decidedly non-U.

by Anonymousreply 63January 22, 2019 1:02 AM

R60 fine silver is never out of fashion.

by Anonymousreply 64January 22, 2019 1:10 AM

Which glass do I pour my can of beer into?

by Anonymousreply 65January 22, 2019 1:21 AM

for those of you interested in this subject, here is a documentary on Georgian and later silver by Dan Cruikshank, it's in 4 parts on Youtube. Here's the first.

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by Anonymousreply 66January 22, 2019 1:28 AM

R63 what about fish knives? I get fish forks not being necessary, but fish knives are quite utilitarian.

by Anonymousreply 67January 22, 2019 1:44 AM

If I remember that fork has 4 letters like “left”, and knife has 5 letters like right, then my table is always laid tight. Lame mnemonic but it works for me.

by Anonymousreply 68January 22, 2019 1:56 AM

If your going to polish silver,wich is a thankless task at best,why in the hell would you polish silver plate ? Get you some sterling,you poor bitches ! I just took a pile of sterling bits and pieces that Ive built up over the last couple of years to a refinery and got a nice chunk of change. All of it was things I found in thrifts and garage sales and what not and paid nothing for most. Dont worry,I didnt melt any fine silver,Im no fool,and Ive got some lovely things (like George jensen,Tiffany,etc) but Ill be the first to admit I detest polishing it so it mostly stays put away. No one entertains formally anymore,so it is a rather pointless thread.

by Anonymousreply 69January 22, 2019 2:55 AM

not exactly pointless, at Thanksgiving I set out a nice table for two, for an old friend who comes over, with antique silver and porcelain. I also use it for my breakfast, which is something of a production, but since I am retired I have the time.

by Anonymousreply 70January 22, 2019 3:10 AM

Good info, R60. Thanks.

by Anonymousreply 71January 22, 2019 3:15 AM

R67 fish knives are also non-U. It comes from snobbery about inherited silverware, only “old” families would have silverware produced before the invention of fish forks (and knives) so if you had those items it meant you were nouveau riche. The upper crust didn’t care about finicky overly elaborate non essentials.

Same with putting milk in the teacup first. Old china wasn’t able to bear the thermal shock so milk first to soften it. If you inherited old china you knew this, if you had to buy your own fine china it had improved (thanks Josiah Wedgwood) so it didn’t shatter so tea first was an indicator you were nouveau riche.

All ridiculous of course but I only said it tongue in cheek because I love the overwrought social anxiety of the Hyacinth Buckets of the world.

by Anonymousreply 72January 22, 2019 9:28 AM

Old school Europeans ate with hand, knife and spoon. No fork. And forget fancy pansy fine china or tea set. That came real late imported from China.

by Anonymousreply 73January 22, 2019 9:48 AM

[Quote]And while we're sort of on the subject, which style of eating do you prefer? The Continental style where you keep your fork in your left hand with tines pointed down, pile your food onto the back of the fork, then raise it to your mouth with your left hand? Or the American style where you hold your fork in your left hand while cutting with the knife in your right, then placing the knife on the edge of the plate and switching the fork to your right before raising it to your mouth?

[Quote]The Continental style is said to be the more elegant way. But usually when I witness someone eating that way, they pile the food on the fork into a huge gob and then lean over their plate with a gaping maw while they shove the food into their piehole. It doesn't seem elegant at all. The American style may consist of a lot of unnecessary movements, but it doesn't cause you to look like a caveman when you eat. At least if you do it right.

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by Anonymousreply 74January 22, 2019 9:58 AM

Oh joy. Fancy utensils for unappetizing food. What's the point of dining again?

by Anonymousreply 75January 22, 2019 10:24 AM

I( make sure my fork faces down between bites and is placed tines-up with my knife to the left at the 11:00-5:00 position when the meal is over. Sadly, most waiters don't know this rule and ask "are you through?"

by Anonymousreply 76January 22, 2019 10:29 AM

I want to how many of you bitches actually own asparagus tongs.

by Anonymousreply 77January 22, 2019 10:51 AM

[quote] I want to how many of you bitches actually own asparagus tongs.

Well, duh. . . .

And, there are two types of asparagus tongs. The ones to serve asparagus at the table, and the individual tongs to use by diners when consuming asparagus.

by Anonymousreply 78January 22, 2019 11:40 AM

More than own lobster forks but fewer than those who own ice cream forks r77.

by Anonymousreply 79January 22, 2019 11:44 AM

I have asparagus tongs, R77. Inherited from my mother who bought them cheap at a garage sale.

They mostly sit in a drawer. But only mostly.

by Anonymousreply 80January 22, 2019 12:06 PM

How can you tell solid silver from silver plate? I have a hard time believing the solid stuff is just sitting around at garage sales waiting to be scooped up for $2.

by Anonymousreply 81January 22, 2019 12:09 PM

It is very pretty but you do not have food on your plate. I feel for you.

by Anonymousreply 82January 22, 2019 12:25 PM

[quote]and the individual tongs to use by diners when consuming asparagus.

[quote]ice cream forks

I'm learning so much. I swear.... I'm learning so much...

by Anonymousreply 83January 22, 2019 12:37 PM

If it is sterling it will say sterling (on American pieces). English silver will be hallmarked, and Continental silver will be marked as well. Yes, sure, if you look, you can find inexpensive sterling -- mostly in the plain patterns that no one really wants or in incomplete sets of odd patterns that would be hard to find additional pieces for. Generally, when people see sterling on the pieces that they are trying to sell at garage sales they often overestimate its value, not underestimate it.

If you know what you are looking for, and you have the time and patience to look, you can find some great bargains.

by Anonymousreply 84January 22, 2019 12:57 PM

I don't know how it happened, R77, but I do. My parents had a low-cost Imperial sterling set known as "Star Time" which I still use. Their set was a small one with the basics and not much else. When I was looking for some new forks to add to the set, I ended up buying a hodgepodge lot that included a butter knife and asparagus tongs.

by Anonymousreply 85January 22, 2019 12:59 PM

R76, or the waiters ask because so many diners don't know the rule. Chances are they once tried to take a plate from a hog who had inadvertently put his fork down for a moment, and got an earful.

by Anonymousreply 86January 22, 2019 1:11 PM

[quote]I( make sure my fork faces down between bites and is placed tines-up with my knife to the left at the 11:00-5:00 position when the meal is over.

Clearly, I have been deprived...

by Anonymousreply 87January 22, 2019 1:17 PM

Im FOS R81 ? I just a few days ago bought 6 sterling shot glasses for $1 each. Many times the silver is so tarnished they dont see the marks,or often the marks arent obvious. Last week I also bought 2 german 800 silver bowls with tiny marks for $5 apiece and those suckers are heavy. You'd also be surprised at how often goodwill lets pieces slip through,like a Navajo silver box set with turquoise I paid $4 for.It was unmarked,but then much native american silver is. Also,many times grandma will have serving pieces from her mother in the kitchen drawer with the daily crap,and the kids dont realize it. Thats where I find quite a bit of stray stuff,in the kitchen section . Doesnt happen every day,but it does happen more often than you'd think. It doesnt hurt Ive been at it for 40 years and have developed an "eye".

by Anonymousreply 88January 22, 2019 2:12 PM

R86 Waiters ask because most of them don't know the basic "codes" of utensil or napkin placement. The ones who do know don't expect diners to know.

by Anonymousreply 89January 22, 2019 2:28 PM

Asparagus tongs! Ha ha! That’s what they are! How funny, I use them for the ice bucket.

by Anonymousreply 90January 22, 2019 2:41 PM

Back in the 90s I knew a guy at college who made bangles from old 925 sterling forks. He’d get them for a dollar or so at thrift shops, always looked for the single orphaned fork that was worthless without a set. Bend the fork round a wooden form, beat it into shape with a soft mallet, polish it up. He’d sell them for about $30.

by Anonymousreply 91January 22, 2019 2:43 PM

A salad knife? Never knew. I must be a hillbilly.

by Anonymousreply 92January 22, 2019 2:46 PM

One doesn't cut salad.

by Anonymousreply 93January 22, 2019 3:23 PM

Salad knives are used for wedge salads or salads with large vegetables by design.

by Anonymousreply 94January 22, 2019 3:25 PM

Nothing competes with Francis I. I think my mama was jealous because she only had Towle Old Master and her sister in law had Francis I. We now have Wallace La Reine, which is ok. Buy whatever you are missing, or need, from Replacements China, which is a great gay-owned company in North Carolina! Now is a good time to buy sterling since the price is closely aligned with the price of silver, which is way down at the moment.

I prefer silver goblets to glass for water, but that's a personal taste question.

And we used bread and butter plates plenty of times for dinner. Of course, you really must have homemade yeast rolls....

by Anonymousreply 95January 22, 2019 3:36 PM

^Senatrice? Is that you?

by Anonymousreply 96January 22, 2019 4:23 PM

[quote] Why doesn’t the demitasse match the rest of the service? The horror!

Because it's not used at the table. It's used in the living room after guests have left the dining room.

by Anonymousreply 97January 22, 2019 4:48 PM

[quote] only the aspiring middle classes use fish forks. It is decidedly non-U.

That is an upper class British attitude. European nobility, particularly in Scandinavia adopted fish knives quite early on, but they didn't resemble fish knives seen in the UK or in America.

by Anonymousreply 98January 22, 2019 4:53 PM

No offense to replacements.com, but their pricing is ridiculous. I sent them my inherited Baccarat Massena set for quote when I was thinking about selling and they sent me back a # which was basically the same price as TWO of the glasses brand new.

by Anonymousreply 99January 22, 2019 5:04 PM

R98 Can you post a picture of the European fish knives? I grew up with the sort of flat ones with the little notch that you use for removing bones. It seems those are the non-U ones. Since moving to the States I have never encountered these, even at fancy restaurants. I encountered them once when attending a conference at one of those old-family estates in NY. None of the Americans around me knew what it was.

by Anonymousreply 100January 22, 2019 5:33 PM

Tongs untied

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by Anonymousreply 101January 22, 2019 6:05 PM

[R99]. Of course, if you are selling to Replacements, they buy at about a 50% discount, since they have to carry merchandise for an indefinite period and have to make a profit, too. Nearly everything in the jewelry/antiques world is marked up 100% between auction price and retail shop price.

by Anonymousreply 102January 25, 2019 6:57 PM

I didn't see the Snickers knife and fork in the place settings

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by Anonymousreply 103January 25, 2019 7:35 PM

I love for threads like this on DL, I mean that. I adore history, so I relish when our resident experts share their vast knowledge, history is just so fascinating, plus I am a sucker for anything involving aesthetics.

I love these old pieces of cutlery, but I can’t imagine having to polish them. The other thing about Victorian pieces I don’t care for are the intricate layers/carvings, it makes cleaning things properly almost impossible. I still appreciate the beauty, I just tend to prefer owning things that are smoother because I think the maintenance is so much easier.

by Anonymousreply 104January 25, 2019 7:37 PM

*live

by Anonymousreply 105January 25, 2019 7:51 PM

Polishing the silver was one of my chores when at my grandparents' house. I polished the silver flatware and the coffee service.

Has anyone ever seen a silver coffee service put to use? My grandmother's just sat on the breakfront for show.

by Anonymousreply 106January 25, 2019 8:39 PM

"I love these old pieces of cutlery, but I can’t imagine having to polish them."

I've always been amused by the fact that the slimy gruntwork of polishing the silver was traditionally done by the Head Butler, someone whose real job in a big house was the supervision of dozens or hundreds of other servants. A Head Butler may have waited at table, but his real job was to manage the staff.

But he was the only one who could be trusted to have the key to the heirloom silver cabinet, so he had to put on an apron and polish the fucking silver.

by Anonymousreply 107January 25, 2019 9:07 PM

Love this thread

by Anonymousreply 108January 25, 2019 11:43 PM

I wonder what cutlery the Queen uses when she eats a banana. I remember Miss Manners explaining how various types of fruit were served, and she explained the correct way to serve pineapple, but added a footnote ("ponder why the Hosts didn't do this in the kitchen"). Apparently, the Queen has never taken a banana in hand to peel and eat.

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by Anonymousreply 109January 26, 2019 12:01 AM

Beulah, peel me a banana.

by Anonymousreply 110January 26, 2019 12:22 AM

For those of you enjoying this thread, this is the ultimate resource:

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by Anonymousreply 111January 26, 2019 12:54 AM

[Quote]Love this thread

💖💖💖💖💖💖💖

by Anonymousreply 112January 26, 2019 1:17 AM

I do too, OPI. I'm learning a lot from this thread. MORE! MORE! MORE!!!

by Anonymousreply 113January 26, 2019 1:19 AM

Downton Abbey photo: footmen polishing silver. Historically inaccurate?

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by Anonymousreply 114January 26, 2019 1:32 AM

The butler does not polish the silver. It's a footman's job.

I have a shelf full of old etiquette books, left over from my childhood obsession with Victorian and Edwardian daily life. I was a comically precious child, calling my parents "mater" and "pater," and spending time writing notes to my "servants" and "society acquaintances" with my Victorian pen, ink, sealing wax, etc. I rode my pretend horse sidesaddle.

by Anonymousreply 115January 26, 2019 3:00 PM

Will someone be a darling and go over the difference between a coffee service and a tea service?

Miss Manners outlined it all at one time, but the details have faded away with my hairline.

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by Anonymousreply 116January 26, 2019 3:55 PM

Is this a waiter training picture?

by Anonymousreply 117January 26, 2019 4:11 PM

The tea service has a "slops" container and a pot to hold extra hot water.

by Anonymousreply 118January 26, 2019 4:17 PM

R106. Yes, I have two silver services. We used to use them quite a bit. But, this is a generational thing.

From the mid 1980s when we met, it was more common to enjoy coffee and cake with friends. That meant the good china (mine’s good Irish china), silver and coffee from the silver service. The cake or torte was home made. Unless it was a special event or reason - you didn’t service something from the store to friends. You baked.

I admit I haven’t made a Sachertorte, Torte aux Poires or baked at Christmas since our friends from that era began to retire and pass away. We’re in our late 50s, and people in their 40s and younger don’t appreciate the effort or the “coffee and cake tradition”. Their idea is to spread open a box from the grocery, service on napkins - and push a button on the Keurig.

The point of the tradition wasn’t about sharing of food. It was to show that you cared about your friends enough to go to some effort. You made something that was a particular favorite of someone else’s.

by Anonymousreply 119January 26, 2019 4:18 PM

Ugh. I apologize “serve” not “service”. I’m having a truly terrible day with my Brain and hands.

by Anonymousreply 120January 26, 2019 4:19 PM

I was going to say, you don't sound like one of those who turn nouns into verbs. All is forgiven.

by Anonymousreply 121January 26, 2019 4:24 PM

It would be a fair interpretation of the facts as presented. Thank you for your kindness.

by Anonymousreply 122January 26, 2019 4:25 PM

LOL!!!! I LOVE THIS THREAD!!!!

It's like Trump! It's brought to life all of the forgotten that have been hidden under rocks for so long!

R119, I haven't laughed so hard in such a LONG time! Believe me, I'm not making fun of you at all but the detail that you gave just amused me. What I thoroughly enjoyed about your post was the genuine excitement, joy, and love, I could literally feel coming from your words. It's as if you have found a brand new freedom and your happiness is just spilling out of every pore! MORE! MORE! MORE!!! Isn't this what it is all about? LIVE YOUR LIFE TO ITS FULLEST! Be yourself and all that you can be! I would LOVE to receive an invitation from you to have tea, (or whatever else it should be called), at your home, but admittedly I'd feel embarrassed because I wouldn't know what to do or say and/or how to act properly at such an event! I'm just not that cultured.

R115, I just had a picture of your parents, (in my mind), looking at each other and just concluding that only prayer would be the answer! LOL!!!

Continue on!

by Anonymousreply 123January 26, 2019 5:49 PM

We should start a club on DL. The Antiques? But it’s not just about antiques, at least for me. It’s also about culture, history, and aesthetics. It’s why I loved art history so very much, I love all those things rolled up together. But we need a name, akin to Tasteful Friends. The Aesthetes? My names suck, but it would be helpful so we can find these threads at all times.

by Anonymousreply 124January 26, 2019 5:58 PM

Somehow reading r115 I picture Niles Crane wearing a bowler

by Anonymousreply 125January 26, 2019 5:58 PM

[quote]The tea service has a "slops" container...

????

What exactly is that?

by Anonymousreply 126January 26, 2019 6:19 PM

Oh, I STILL WINCE when I remember eating a salad with a dessert fork. Decades ago....the embarrassment refuses to go away.

by Anonymousreply 127January 26, 2019 6:22 PM

"We should start a club on DL. The Antiques? "

Call it... Effete Aesthetes for Antiques!!!

by Anonymousreply 128January 26, 2019 9:52 PM

R126, I’m guessing it’s a receptacle for used-up loose tea leaves.

by Anonymousreply 129January 26, 2019 10:01 PM

OMG!!!! Yes r128, please!!!!

Notice to everyone, for future topics, we are “Effete Aesthetes for Antiques.” Fun!

by Anonymousreply 130January 26, 2019 10:39 PM

Always set a full table, sit to dine. Especially if living along. It lengthens a happy life.

by Anonymousreply 131January 26, 2019 10:51 PM

Not if I have to do the dishes, R131.

by Anonymousreply 132January 26, 2019 11:07 PM

R47 tines are down while eating. Up when you stop with knife's sharp edge facing fork at the 11:00-5:00 position on plate. This alerts the server that the entrée is over, assuming they knows the rules. Most look at you and say "Are ya finished?"

by Anonymousreply 133January 26, 2019 11:16 PM

New York City Mayor Bill deBlasio was severely criticized for eating pizza with knife and fork. The question became "Is this correct in Italy?" I don't recall the answer, but the mayor's family never lived in Italy.

by Anonymousreply 134January 26, 2019 11:27 PM

It surprised me as well. In Germany, if you ordered pizza in a restaurant - you ate it with a knife and fork. Sure, delivery, we ate like the barbarian americans we are: fingers!

Military were always surprised *what* Germans did not eat with their fingers. But, you’d go to Kaufhalle, which was like a cross between Walmart and a foodcourt and you’d see older people tearing into a roasted chicken with their fingers. Never pizza, unless you were young and you were getting a slide from a stand.

You can’t make this stuff up. Don’t even get me started on the egregious breach of social etiquette you’d commit by eating food while walking.

It wouldn’t surprise me if Italy was similar. I’m sure it’s different now.

by Anonymousreply 135January 26, 2019 11:35 PM

R133, would you please post a picture of what you’re referring to please? I want to make sure I’m clear.

So I gather from what you’ve all posted, putting one’s napkin on a plate when done eating is wrong lol? Sigh, so much to know....

My boss has a monthly dinner with a Board at our office, I just set the table before I saw this thread last Monday, and my knives were on the wrong side!!! But I like the memory trick referred to earlier using left/right, I’ll never forget that now.

What are some other rules of dining and table setting, that we should all know, whether it’s for business or pleasure? Most of my life is lived as a casual American, but I do occasionally enjoy fine dining and would like to not look like a caveman while doing it.

Also, if one wants to purchase a nicer silverware set, what is a better investment, silver-plated or solid? Or are they same because I would only be buying for my own enjoyment?

What about dishes too? I know we’ve done this topic before, but if I wanted to invest in some nice, classic, slightly higher end lines, what would you recommend? I think it’s time for me to expand my cutlery and dishes beyond Crate and Barrel, haha. As always, TIA!

by Anonymousreply 136January 27, 2019 2:19 AM

If you're just learning what side a knife goes on, I'd suggest you have a go at google to read up on the basics before you get bogged down with slop bowls and grapefruit spoons, dearie.

by Anonymousreply 137January 27, 2019 2:57 PM

And you see?

That was totally uncalled for, R137. It's people like you that cause people like me to lose interest in such threads like these. I'm not R136, but like him/her this thread interested me because I feel the excitement, and read the knowledge, that causes me to want to learn more about the topic. Sure! one could Google the information but when one is "caught up" in the interest, excitement, and the possibility of interacting with someone that is more closer on a personal basis, you don't immediately think to resort to the impersonal listings of Google. You might do that after you receive a more personalized answer to your question(s).

It's because of snob queens like you, that a thread like this, will only get maybe 15-20 postings (if that) and die out. That's unfortunate because I feel that a thread like this one is a wonderful and a different type of contribution to DL. But, no one wants to feel bad, feel "less than", and/or be insulted because they don't know something--especially on an early Sunday morning!

So! in the spirit of DL; Go find your dildo and go FUCK yourself!

I'm out.

But, I too still want to know what a slop bowel is and what is its purpose...

by Anonymousreply 138January 27, 2019 3:21 PM

Easily answered. r137 is the slop bowel

by Anonymousreply 139January 27, 2019 3:50 PM

This is getting a bit nasty.

You probably won’t get hit with a service a la russe for your formal dinner. Odds are you’ll get one of the more common services, which sometimes are more like “restaurant services”. Not quite a formal service but commonly used when serving a large group. If you google “Martha Stewart AND place settings you’ll get a relatively large set of drawings that show different place settings.

For the simplest thing to do? Follow your host or hostess. If they’re too far away, then follow the person opposite you, just a slilght step behind.

Don’t sweat making small mistakes. Everyone makes them: everyone. Everyone makes mistakes with the breadplate and breadknife. The advice about starting with the outside utensils and working your way in is the smartest and safest.

The basics are the basics, and here’s a video that applies to everyone. You’ll be okay. Don’t’ stress.

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by Anonymousreply 140January 27, 2019 4:03 PM

Remember, sweet wines are not served with the dessert course, they are served AFTER the dessert course, with fruit. They're too sweet to go with desserts.

I just don't know where the cheese course fits in. I know it comes after dessert and before the sexes separate for coffee and cordials.

Egads, the 19th century idle rich made eating dinner into a full-time job!

by Anonymousreply 141January 27, 2019 5:23 PM

I'm not R133, but here are some diagrams for knife and fork language. The only ones I've ever heard of / used are the configurations for "paused" and "finished." I had no idea there were configurations for "don't like," etc. "Don't like" just seems rude to your host(ess).

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by Anonymousreply 142January 27, 2019 6:03 PM

Here's a diagram for an "informal" table setting.

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by Anonymousreply 143January 27, 2019 6:07 PM

Here's a diagram for a formal table setting.

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by Anonymousreply 144January 27, 2019 6:11 PM

In what universe would it be good manners to express a negative opinion about the food being served? Never mind signalling it with your utensils.

by Anonymousreply 145January 27, 2019 6:12 PM

Hmm... R142 is helpful. There are actually restaurants in NYC that are trained to spot those signals.

by Anonymousreply 146January 27, 2019 6:20 PM

Is there a difference between a service plate and a charger plate? Or, are they the same thing?

by Anonymousreply 147January 27, 2019 6:22 PM

R137, I’m the poster you’re responding to. I have experienced incredible restaurants all over the world, my most memorable dinners were in San Francisco, NYC, Chicago, and Paris. I totally own my ignorance — I do *not* entertain very often, that’s why I have no idea how to set a table correctly. I obviously haven’t put things where they “belong” but I do think I’ve created some beautiful place settings in spite of that.

I was raised by working class people. They were all college educated (quite bright parents actually) but just not very sophisticated or worldly. That’s why I’m here, there is no shame in expanding one’s knowledge. I’m not too proud to admit I have much to learn, and I love the idea of becoming a little more cultured, if only for the sake of the knowledge it brings me.

R138 I know none of us like to get angry here, it is just extremely frustrating to deal with the overly critical on this site. Thank you for defending me, I happen to agree with you that that tone is a thread killer, but I won’t let that chase me away.

More more more!

by Anonymousreply 148January 27, 2019 9:21 PM

Well, I'm confused by R144's diagram. Why are there a fish fork and a seafood fork? Which would be served first? And, if you're working from the outside in, then why isn't the demitasse spoon next to the knife? Isn't expresso the last thing served?

by Anonymousreply 149January 28, 2019 1:41 AM

The fish fork is for fish like trout or salmon. The seafood fork is for shrimp or pieces of crab or lobster. The seafood fork is small, and generally has three tines like a trident.

I believe that seafood would be served as an appetizer and so would precede the fish course.

by Anonymousreply 150January 28, 2019 1:58 AM

Here are all the different kinds of forks for fish and seafood. Agree with R150 that seafood (e.g., oysters) would probably be served as an appetizer, so maybe that's why the seafood fork goes way out there on the right side.

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by Anonymousreply 151January 28, 2019 4:32 AM

Sorry, but I love all the fighting you bitches do on this thread. One moment, you're here with your fichu pulled tightly around your necks and your corsets firmly in place. In a trice, you're damning one another to Hell in a furious hail of epithets and sex toys.

You just can't get this any place else.

A full collection of sterling silver costs far too much for most people to justify, with no extra added utility. It's potentially an investment, but its prime purpose is to impress others. If you really need to do that to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars (because a basic service for 8 ain't going to impress anyone. It's fish forks or nothing!) then go ahead and mortgage your future. Silver plate comes with all the maintenance issues of sterling silver, but none of the investment potential and the richest, fullest, most complete array of utensils are generally not available in silver plate. And again, fish forks or nothing at all. If your place setting is missing the sardine fork, what good is it?

Just look for a beautifully designed stainless steel dinner service. If you want to be grand, but two. One for daily use and something with more flair for the dinner parties you probably won't often give.

by Anonymousreply 152January 28, 2019 1:03 PM

The sardine fork that is pictured in R151, and that you mention R152, was never meant as part of the place setting. It is a serving implement, not one that was intended to be used by individual diners "to convey the long flat fish fillets to the mouth intact."

I've collected, bought, and sold sterling silver for decades. At auction, the price for a nice full set in a sought-after pattern is closer to $2,000 - $2,500 range, rather than tens of thousands. And, you can even pick up sets for less than that if you shop around. Sure, you can also buy a set brand new from a dealer, but it would be very over-priced and you would never recoup the investment.

by Anonymousreply 153January 28, 2019 1:33 PM

R152 and r153, thank you, I was the one who asked, and you both are giving very very practical advice.

So do either of you care to recommend any particular pattern or line? Perhaps I will just stick with stainless, I don’t know, but I’m very open to suggestions. I could justify 2k if I was in love with it, but only if it’s love, not lust haha. We live but once my loves!

by Anonymousreply 154January 28, 2019 2:57 PM

Now I'm curious as to whether the dildo is placed next to forks or spoons on a formal table.

by Anonymousreply 155January 28, 2019 3:11 PM

HA!!

by Anonymousreply 156January 28, 2019 3:16 PM

R154 there are several patterns that have been made by many makers for many years, it is easy to mix older pieces with newer since the pattern stays the same, though there are slight variation. The King's pattern, also the similar Queen pattern, are classic. This is a set on Ebay, which is mostly Georgian, but the knives are recent sterling manufacture. You can also build a set by buying pieces as you can afford them

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by Anonymousreply 157January 28, 2019 3:54 PM

I've got a better idea.

by Anonymousreply 158January 28, 2019 3:55 PM

Wow r157, that is indeed beautiful!!

by Anonymousreply 159January 28, 2019 4:11 PM

"The broad tines convey the long, flat fish filets to the mouth intact."

That's a direct quote from National Geographic.

by Anonymousreply 160January 28, 2019 5:20 PM

I admit, that if I won the lottery and could afford sterling flatware and Royal Doulton with hand-painted periwinkles, I still wouldn't buy it. I'm an informal person by nature, and the house of my dreams is a little cabin in the woods.

But I'm fascinated by all sorts of things that I'd never do myself; I'd undoubtedly find the full-blown 19th century formal dinner with service a la Russe torture in real life, but it's very interesting to read about. Life must have been terribly glamorous back in the days when people "dressed for dinner", that is, they put on formal suits and gowns every night of their adult lives, whether dinner was a big party or just with the family. Ladies just don't have wardrobes of elaborate formal evening gowns any more, not since WWII.

by Anonymousreply 161January 28, 2019 6:39 PM

Has anyone ever been at a dinner where multiple wine glasses were used? In real life?

by Anonymousreply 162January 31, 2019 11:22 PM

^^^ Yes. But, less than 10 such dinners in my lifetime thus far.

by Anonymousreply 163January 31, 2019 11:30 PM

What would you have us do, R162? Drink out of the bottles?

by Anonymousreply 164February 1, 2019 12:36 PM

[quote]Buy whatever you are missing, or need, from Replacements China, which is a great gay-owned company in North Carolina!

They're very nice to deal with, and they get to bring their dogs to work. As an old dish queen, I've thought I should just go to work at Replacements. But it's in North Carolina, and no amount of Bring Your Dog To Work could get me to live in the slave states.

by Anonymousreply 165February 1, 2019 12:48 PM

I like the way you think, r165.

If you’re filling out your latest obsession set, it’s good to sprinkle in product from experts.

Remember, part of the cost of the item you buy is safe storage as inventory as well as expert identification.

by Anonymousreply 166February 1, 2019 3:28 PM

I do love a shell pattern, R157. My mother is hoarding the family sterling, and it's a gorgeous simple shell style. I'm the one person who'd appreciate it and use it. Too bad she loathes me.

by Anonymousreply 167February 1, 2019 3:29 PM

R162. Of course. Different glasses for red and white. That’s standard for us when host dinners, and it’s how we learned to host dinners from our gay “mom & dad”.

It’s a lost art, it seems. But as a young gay couple, we were adopted by an older gay couple who taught us how to host a dinner. I had purchased a nice irish china service when I was in the military, which we’ve used for more than 30 years. We never bought expensive stemware: I’m a clutz. But, we’ve bought beautiful cordials, some antique blue glass and inexpensive crystal that’s suitable. Many years ago, we found a full service of silver plate at a local department store that was off-inventory they sold to us for a song.

Setting a beautiful table isn’t a question of money, it’s a question of simplicity and setting a mood. Serving a few simple courses is way better than trying to over reach and stress yourself out. A simple soup, salad and easy entree followed by dessert is way better than trying for something horribly elaborate that’s your first time. Don’t do it. You’ll wear yourself out and make everyone uncomfortable.

A dinner for 4-6 is enough work for your first dinner. Don’t stress out about your wine pairings, either. Have a bit of fun - a good wine shop will make suggestions based on your budget. Go with it. If they’re awful, you’ll have a good laugh. Not everyone likes red or white and it honestly doesn’t matter anyone if someone prefers white with their beef or red with their fish.

I’ve kept my china pattern simple - it’s a plain white with a platinum band on the outside. No embellishments. It’s a personal preference, I don’t like embossing or patterns. They wear over time. Most china service are hand-wash only but you’ll find some that are more durable that can be safely washed in the dish washer. That might matter to you. Silver is hand wash only.

Candles and flowers make your table it’s most lovely. Let your guests contribute and participate - but always have a Plan B just in case they forget or bail.

by Anonymousreply 168February 1, 2019 6:15 PM

In the old times, table manners were a sure way of assessing people. In France at least. A test was always eating fruit with a fork and a knife usually a peach (tricky little thing). The setting of a table is similar and different. For us, the tines are down. This, because the coat of arms is on the back. For old china and dishwasher, try to put a chipped plate in the dishwasher and see what happens. Golden patterns are fragile.

by Anonymousreply 169February 1, 2019 8:56 PM

Great tips r169!!!

by Anonymousreply 170February 1, 2019 10:45 PM

I fear I'd fail the French table manners test.

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by Anonymousreply 171February 1, 2019 10:55 PM

Miss R168 sounds like a veritable reincarnation of Pearl Mesta.

by Anonymousreply 172February 2, 2019 12:38 AM

Perle Mesta

by Anonymousreply 173February 2, 2019 3:42 AM

I'm horrified to see people here advocating eating asparagus with a tong or a fork. It could be taken off a tray with a tong, but it's meant to be eaten with the FINGERS. Etiquette 101.....

by Anonymousreply 174February 2, 2019 5:03 AM

Since I'm left handed, I unintentionally always eat 'Continental' style.

And regardless of how sophisticated one's table/eating manners may be, or may not be - twelve hours later, it all looks the same.

by Anonymousreply 175February 2, 2019 5:10 AM

Thank you, R173.

by Anonymousreply 176February 2, 2019 5:14 AM

r33’s article states that diners weren’t allowed to leave the room to release themselves at a dinner, they used the chamber pot behind those dividers. I’m curious what happened to the unlucky few that needed to drop a dookie? Would everyone pretend like they don’t hear and smell it? How awkward when you can back to the table.

by Anonymousreply 177February 2, 2019 5:34 AM

R177, David Niven wrote a story about the time the dinner gong struck before he had a chance to relieve himself, and he sat down with a full bladder. He was wondering what the hell to do, because it was NOT done to leave the room once the company had sat down to dinner, and he was already suffering with several courses to go. He said an observant butler surreptitiously passed him an empty wine bottle, and, well.

This would have been in the 1930s.

by Anonymousreply 178February 2, 2019 6:22 AM

I sometimes talk about table etiquette with young relatives, keeping it light, but showing them how things are done correctly, for their future reference in situations where they need formal manners. I've been around, in a lot of ways, and have noticed that the old-school "upper classes" do notice manners, even if they're not conscious of it, and see good manners as a positive signifier. So it can be to your advantage to know your etiquette.

by Anonymousreply 179February 2, 2019 3:06 PM

R172 Thank you? Not in the slightest. I grew up very much upper lower class. I was just lucky to have been “adopted” along the way guncles and gaunties who shared the lost arts of hosting a dinner. I had a lot of ... well, stuff that flew into the trash can until I learned “it’s not about the food”.

by Anonymousreply 180February 2, 2019 3:21 PM

R168, was there any chance that your eldergay mentors lived long enough to see cocktail-sodden TV hostess Sandra Lee and her "tablescapes"?

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by Anonymousreply 181February 2, 2019 8:03 PM

I know several Beckas who ADORE the artistry of Sandra Lee.

They always seem to have a re-used spork handy. and good for them.

by Anonymousreply 182February 3, 2019 4:19 AM

I don't know who Sandra Lee is, but you can buy full-sized sterling or modern stainless sporks. I have a set. They were for eating desserts, but they're perfect for noodle soup dishes like pho.

by Anonymousreply 183February 3, 2019 3:35 PM

[quote]I don't know who Sandra Lee is

How very fortunate for you. Seriously.

by Anonymousreply 184February 3, 2019 3:36 PM

I know some of the posters are sterling silver fans, but I bought some Oneida "cube" stainless steel sets (dinner fork, salad/dessert fork, teaspoon, soup spoon, and knife) from eBay. Supposedly the Oneida with the cube (you can see a cube on the back of the item) was from a good era. The ones I bought were in storage and were actually unused. I like it a lot and they don't require polishing, of course.

by Anonymousreply 185February 3, 2019 7:41 PM

Serving the hot servant is a crucial flipped role play in the ruling class imaginary.

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by Anonymousreply 186February 6, 2019 12:52 PM

styrofoam for me, Thanks

by Anonymousreply 187February 6, 2019 1:25 PM

What is a proper setting for tea? Also, how many Madeleines should be initially served with tea?

by Anonymousreply 188May 15, 2019 8:10 PM

Serve to as many Madeleines as are present.

by Anonymousreply 189May 15, 2019 8:20 PM

[quote]We should start a club on DL. The Antiques? But it’s not just about antiques, at least for me. It’s also about culture, history, and aesthetics. It’s why I loved art history so very much, I love all those things rolled up together. But we need a name, akin to Tasteful Friends. The Aesthetes? My names suck, but it would be helpful so we can find these threads at all times.

Well, just be aware that "The Sophisticados" name is spoken for.

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by Anonymousreply 190May 15, 2019 9:55 PM

[quote]I want to how many of you bitches actually own asparagus tongs.

I not only have asparagus tongs, I have SUGAR CUBE tongs. And not the regular kind -- but the kind that you push down on to open up the "claws."

And speaking of which ... it's part of a 12-place setting set of Towle's "Old Master" (sterling) that has been sitting in my garage for five years. I have no idea what to do with it. It was my parents' and they're both gone now. No one else in my family and I'll never use it. It's engraved with our family initial--that probably makes it less desirable.

I have ANOTHER 12 place settings of sterling that belonged to my late sister (not sure of the pattern.) What do I do with them?

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by Anonymousreply 191May 15, 2019 9:58 PM

R191 is that a cheese tester? I actually have something like that which is meant to allow the Butler (or in this case, me) to test the inside of a round cheese. Mine doesn’t look exactly like that, though.

Also unusual...potato rings. They keep hot dishes from harming the table

by Anonymousreply 192June 8, 2019 9:08 PM

r192 Did you read the post? They're SUGAR CUBE tongs.

by Anonymousreply 193June 9, 2019 3:05 AM

This seems appropriate here.

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by Anonymousreply 194November 4, 2019 9:26 AM

....

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by Anonymousreply 195November 4, 2019 9:34 AM

MMPH... a lot of work and thought goes behind this.

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by Anonymousreply 196November 4, 2019 11:49 AM
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by Anonymousreply 197November 4, 2019 3:07 PM

Watching those videos makes my head sweat.

by Anonymousreply 198January 26, 2020 1:04 AM

We always used the salad forks as kid forks for the little kids, never used them otherwise

by Anonymousreply 199January 26, 2020 1:07 AM

I know an old queen who grew up with money, inherited and spent it on hookers and blow in short order. He now works as a majordomo for a freakishly rich and proper old queen in Brentwood and has taken to his job well. He has, however, admitted to being flummoxed on occasion about table settings. After seeing every Downton Abbey episode known to man, and with his background, it is still confusing for him at times. And he's someone who never admits to being wrong.

by Anonymousreply 200January 26, 2020 1:28 AM

There is a difference between English "cutlery" and American "flatware". American flatware has more variations in design. English cutlery is generally three sizes for each implement, end of story.

The place settings look different.

I can understand your friend's confusion.

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by Anonymousreply 201January 26, 2020 1:36 AM

This just made me laugh.

I have never seen a place setting with a caviar spoon, a snail fork, a lobster pick, AND a marrow spoon.

And what desert requires a fork, a spoon a nut pick (hidden) AND an ice cream fork?

A knife rest for a butter spreader?

{{{giggles}}}

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by Anonymousreply 202January 26, 2020 1:53 AM

^^^ desserts {giggles again}}}

by Anonymousreply 203January 26, 2020 2:12 AM

[quote]I have never seen a place setting with a caviar spoon, a snail fork, a lobster pick, AND a marrow spoon.

That dinner party can only end in gout.

by Anonymousreply 204January 31, 2020 9:39 PM

We were never allowed to use grapefruit spoons for cereal even though we never ever had grapefruit in the house.

by Anonymousreply 205January 31, 2020 9:46 PM

[quote] [R44], thank you. I was the one who asked about the pattern and the knock-off. I'll check out silver plated and Gorham's French Classic.

R49, if you're still around, Oneida's Michelangelo (stainless steel) is a Gorham Strasbourg knock-off. If you enter the word "cube" in your search, you'll hopefully get something that was made a few years back. (And hopefully better-quality.)

by Anonymousreply 206January 31, 2020 10:29 PM

I never realized that an ice cream fork is basically a spork made of metal.

Sterling, one hopes.

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by Anonymousreply 207January 31, 2020 10:48 PM

R5 my favorite Chinese restaurant never places a bread and butter on my table.

by Anonymousreply 208January 31, 2020 10:55 PM

My people are casual. R5 In a formal setting, where does the bread plate go?

by Anonymousreply 209February 1, 2020 12:35 AM

Ha! I remember this thread.

That was me/my grandmother's trick at R23

I can't be the only one who learned that?

by Anonymousreply 210February 1, 2020 1:05 AM

Is that Corelle?

by Anonymousreply 211February 1, 2020 1:10 AM

Why isn't the wine in the red wine glass red?

by Anonymousreply 212February 1, 2020 1:14 AM

r207, the spork was a RE-PURPOSING of the Ice Cream Fork SHAPE.

The Ice Cream Fork is designed for use with hard ice cream.

Plastic sporks are not up to the ice cream task.

by Anonymousreply 213February 1, 2020 1:15 AM

I have two really cool JAL (airline) metal spoons that I use for scooping out condiments, etc. Every so often, I go on eBay, looking for airline cutlery. For some reason, I like it.

by Anonymousreply 214February 1, 2020 6:33 PM

How the fuck much do these rich people eat and drink? Soup, fish, meat, salad, wine, other liquors, coffee, dessert, bread butter all in one meal. Jesus! I'll bet they also have cheese and crackers at some point during the meal. Do they have puke buckets next to every chair? I

by Anonymousreply 215February 1, 2020 6:42 PM

I think this is the proper place to insert an old joke. A guy dies and is at the pearly gates. St. Peter tells him he's been a good guy and will be admitted and as a special treat, he will get to have a guided tour of Hell to see what he missed. Down they go. The first place he sees is a horrible vat of boiling oil with people screaming in it. "Oh my God" he says, 'what did those poor people do?" The angel answers, "those were Jews who ate pork and seafood". Then he passes another place where people are in an arena with large stones being thrown at them constantly. ."Who are those poor guys?" he says. The angel says, "those are Catholics who ate meat on Fridays". On he goes through several more rooms each more horrible than the last. Finally he comes to a room where every kind of torture is being administered simultaneously- boiling oil, pitchforks, stones, rain of fire, etc. He says, "this is beyond horrible. What in the world did those poor schmucks do?" The angel says, "Oh, those are all the Episcopalians who ate their main course with a salad fork".

by Anonymousreply 216February 1, 2020 7:54 PM

R51, yes, what R60 says. Also, like many elaborate social rituals, the profusion of utensils also served as a shibboleth – if you knew how to use them, then you must be from right sort of background. That kind of made-up class marker was more important in America than in Britain because we had no hereditary aristocracy and, being geographically vast, it was more difficult to keep track of the “best families”.

by Anonymousreply 217February 1, 2020 8:54 PM

R72, I hate to disagree, but milk-in-first is definitely a middle- and working-class thing. It was the cheaper china that tended to crack, so you tempered the tea with milk. Upper-middle and upper-class people don’t do that; it is, or at least was, kind of a thing, actually … a class marker. This is in Britain, I mean. In America, people would probably think milk-in-first was just odd.

by Anonymousreply 218February 1, 2020 8:55 PM

R173, or you could just call her madam.

by Anonymousreply 219February 1, 2020 8:56 PM

[quote] In America, people would probably think milk-in-first was just odd.

American here. I put milk (half 'n' half) and sugar in first. For coffee, though. Reason: no need to stir with a spoon after the coffee is poured.

I had heard about the order of milk/tea being a class marker. Thanks for the explanation of why.

by Anonymousreply 220February 1, 2020 9:06 PM

r220, I do that with a beaker.

Cup and saucer, tea first.

by Anonymousreply 221February 2, 2020 8:55 AM

Six to twelve and back again!

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by Anonymousreply 222February 2, 2020 8:56 AM

Will place settings survive the apocalypse?

by Anonymousreply 223April 27, 2020 7:35 AM

After the big die-off, we'll be able to eat off Herend and Limoges, dear.

by Anonymousreply 224April 27, 2020 7:39 AM

R214 One of my favorite sets I use is from SwissAir.

I think we enjoy this since it's such a rarity; non-existent on domestic flights, but can still be found on international trips.

by Anonymousreply 225April 27, 2020 9:18 AM

How are your table settings holding up mid-pandemic? I know figuring out place settings for one can be quite challenging.

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by Anonymousreply 226May 22, 2020 1:32 AM

"Do you eat out of Styrofoam containers or do you don your caftan and make and elaborate presentation at every meal?"

Are those you're only two choices, OP?

Because you sound like someone who would very easily don a caftan and eat out of a styrofoam container.

And I'm guessing, if that caftan ever gets washed, the crumbs from a million Doritos would go down the drain and clog up the washing machine.

by Anonymousreply 227May 22, 2020 2:04 AM

My life is simpler. For dinner parties I have a water glass and wine glass, salad fork, dinner fork, dessert fork and dinner knife. Soup bowl, salad plate, that I chill in the refrigerator if I remember, dinner plate, dessert plate and a cloth napkin. I never serve coffee after dinner. I use to offer coffee after dinner but no one wants it. I bring out cordial glasses at the end of the meal and offer a liqueur. Our last dinner party was last January and don’t miss entertaining.

by Anonymousreply 228May 22, 2020 2:12 AM

I miss entertaining. I love to cook! Getting everything ready and having someone (usually a cousin) take over when we start eating. ,

I only did it around once a month, more in the spring and fall, but nothing this year. Last was just a few days after 2020! Arugula salad, scallops with habanero raspberry jelly, duck breasts with Brussels sprouts, drizzled with balsamic reduction, risotto...damn.

What kind of savage wants Ranch dressing on arugula, shaved parm, red onion and red peppers! My homemade vinaigrette, or offer to prepare a small portion of caesar...some people...God I miss that philistine right now!

I want to set up a speakeasy for people to actually get together and eat a fantastic meal!!!

by Anonymousreply 229May 22, 2020 2:39 AM
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