Those Magnificent Midwestern Towns, Part Six

Fuck you, OP!

this is why I'm okay with new regimes coming onto a show WHEN those new regimes have actual talent.

I enjoyed the Dobson era of GL and loved, loved, loved the Marland era.

Below is something I think I loved even more.

Go away Serial nutjob asshole. We laugh at your stupidity. There is no one dumber than you. Idiot.

How about a little "Proud Mary"! Plus John Bolger thrusting his pelvis!

Go to 3:35 to get this party started!

I remember thinking, "This is SO not Phillip."

And yet.

I almost came in my pants when I saw him thrusting like that (at around 5:35 in that clip.)

And seeing Bev get up and get down is almost worth the price of admission.

Watching this now I think: goodness, there was a LOT of cocaine in that room, wasn't there?

[quote]I remember thinking, "This is SO not Phillip."

I can't imagine Grant Aleksander's Phillip doing that. But John Bolger was more relaxed and loose in his portrayal of Phillip.

Zimmer said somewhere, perhaps on that "Reva: The Scarlet Years" compilation video that she nearly broke her neck dancing on the bar in heels in that Proud Mary scene. If you watch closely at 6:20, she starts dancing backwards on the bar and does almost lose her balance.

I never ever ever ever bought Bolger as Phillip. But he was sexy.

Did Bolger's shlong touch the toilet water?

As handsome as Bolger was when he did that Proud Mary scene at age 31, this is what a 64 year old Bolger looks like today.

He still has BDF and I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to take a ride on it.

OP

It's almost time to host the Snowflake Ball!

I felt so bad for Bolger when he fucked up his lines in the live Sound of Music on NBC. He played a Nazi.

Reposting this, it was in the last thread before it closed.

Margo and Tom’s 1983 wedding, which was a mess.

Its amazing how Stewart-focused ATWT was in the early 80s. And how much the McColl family was being forced on us.

Robert Horton’s dye job was horrible.

He looked like an old drunk

What does it say that I found Betsy Von Furstenberg and Jane Powell more interesting to watch than Eileen Fulton?

ATWT expands to one hour!

Springfield Sizzles!

Springfield fizzles!

R10 He's still a handsome man at 64. I saw him on TV a few years ago and he looked relatively well preserved.

Age is a bitch but he looks lean and fit.

I always liked John and wished GL had done what DAYS did, and bring him back as someone else. He should have been India's ex or something.

Hi this is the DLer that is doing the Emmy reels

I'm on to Outstanding Younger Actress in a Drama Series - here is 1991

Anne Heche Another World (Vicki/Marley)

First Reel - Vicki confronts Donna about her one-night stand with Jake

Second Reel - Marley breaks down in Vicki's arms after being raped by Jake, as Vicki vows revenge.

Enjoy!

R15 I know Marland was very family centered on ATWT but as a new-ish fan that started watching around the time he started, I loathed almost everything Stewart related that wasn't Emily or Susan.

Especially Ellen and that goddamned ridiculous hair.

R2 I really want 'LOW BORN GUTTER SLUT" on a t-shirt!

I wonder what would've happened to Search for Tomorrow had CBS not canceled it. It still had healthy ratings when it was axed, so it could've potentially gone on for years. Do you think it would've survived as long as ATWT and GL, and even flourished in the '80s like those two did? Also, what's the story behind SFT never going to an hour? I remember reading that it was in the planning stages but that there was no room on the schedule. Or was there another reason? TIA.

The death nail for Search on CBS was moving it from its longstanding 12:30 p.m. timeslot to a 2:30 p.m. timeslot. That was done in June 1980 and the ratings started falling.

Search had been a lunchtime soap ever since it debuted in 1951 in the 12:30 timeslot (where it aired for the next 30 years) and a lot of people didn't follow it to the new time slot.

Search went from a 7.6 rating for the 1979-80 season to a 6.3 ratings for the 1980-81 season thanks to that move.

SFT was being undone BTS by Bunim and her crew - witness what they did to television in general over time - and from all accounts Mary Stuart was a cunt. Besides, CBS had tons of faith in John Conboy and thought Capitol would be HUGE.

and John Bolger did Parting Glances back when it could been career suicide for a daytime actor, so he gets a pass.

Find Mary Stuart's book BOTH OF ME and she doesn't come off as too much of a bitch, natch since she wrote it. However the veneer of ill will she felt towards certain directors and writers dominate the book. For me I'd love to know who the actress was the show brought on as a doctor who was in place to replace Jo. Stuart writes she started to cough in a scene with this woman and the actress complained Stuart was trying to put her off. She doesn't mention the era. Maybe Olympkia Dukakis? She played a doctor on the show. Maybe someone from earlier?

Stuart was a damn bitch. I hated her.

R22

Anne Heche was EVERYTHING as Marly & Vicky. It killed me when she left AW.

R29

Who is she talking about?

Don't you know? EVERYBODY knows!

OMFG Mary does The Morning After!

Larry Bryggman is on tonight's Black List.

Bryggman aggressively bad mouthed soaps for the 110 years he spent on ATWT. I know he respected some of his fellow actors like Don McLaughlin, Henderson Forsythe, Don Hastings, and Kathleen Widdows (I recall him mentioning them fondly and with great respect in interviews), but he absolutely loathed the genre and made it clear to anyone who would listen that he just did it for the paycheck to supplement his theater career.

Hi this is the DLer that is doing the Emmy reels

I'm on to Outstanding Younger Actress in a Drama Series - here is 19994

Melissa Hayden who played Bridget Reardon on Guiding Light

R34 Blacklist isn't on tonight. It IS on tomorrow.

Do you mean that episode?

Mary would sing The Bells of Christmas on Search Christmas Eve shows. That would do the credits in re and green for the holiday. Jo was everyone's best friend and confidante.

I heard that Mary and Maree Cheatham did not get along at all. Is there anyone whom Mary DID like or was not envious of?

According to Mary Stuart, everyone was after her job. Rolling my eyes. What a bitch.

She sang Fart a Torch Jeanette Isabella one Christmas

Light! LIght a Torch!

[quote] I heard that Mary and Maree Cheatham did not get along at all.

Maree Cheatham was FIRED after ten years on SFT as new producer (Ellen Barrett who hailed from Ryan's Hope) felt former Ryan's Hope actress Louise Shaffer (ex-Rae) would be a better fit for the character of Stephanie.

Ironic as Louise Shaffer herself was fired from Ryan's Hope when new headwriter Pat Falken Smith wanted the resident powerbroker to be a man (as Louise played rich bitch Rae Woodard), hence the creation of Max Dubjack

John Bolger did it for me. The eyes...the body....the bulge...

There was NO Philip Spaulding except for Grant. That Proud Mary segment gave me major douche chills when it first aired, and watching it again now I am twice as mortified!

[quote] John Bolger did it for me. The eyes...the body....the bulge...

He was a big boy, but as hot as I think John was, I'm not sure he could quite measure up to The Pendulousness.

[quote]I wonder what would've happened to Search for Tomorrow had CBS not canceled it.

The only reason PG allowed NBC to air the show was because NBC agreed to show it at lunchtime, plus a few other incentives that made it too good to pass up. NBC was desperate at the time. Apparently CBS tried to cancel it in the late 70s for another John Conboy show (pre Capitol), but PG offered up some incentives to keep it on CBS.

John Conboy sucked.

Just looked at Today in Soaps on We Love Soaps.

I think the guy who played Grant Colman on ATWT was also in that Peyton Place clip. He looks like he aged about 50 years in that 18ish year difference.

Search was an interesting show in that it didn't follow the cliched template of other shows with tentpole families and class conflict. For most of its run it was more a story about people in a town all tied somehow to Jo.

Was it SFT or LOL that John Aniston starred in?

I was just a little kid but I remember him playing a dapper guy. I have no idea who he played but I remember his character being in love with a beautiful woman named Mignon.

As a kid I thought that was so glamorous.

Aniston was on both SFT and LOL.

He was on both shows R51. He played Martin Tourneur on Search and Eddie Aleata on Love of Life.

His accent on LOL was hysterical. It was the stuff of soap parody.

Tourneur was such a stupid name. So pretentious. It’s TURNER, bitches.

R37, yes. The episode is called "The Pawnbrokers."

Mary Stuart wanted a hot leading man - to compete with Liza and Travis on Search - and they paired her middle aged, old lady hairstyle wearing slacks Jo with Martin Touerner (John Anniston). In real life Stuart and Anniston were about the same age, but Jo came off as so dowdy fan mail protested Jo marrying a 'younger man' and a criminal to boot. Stuart soon soured on the romance and the producers - who HATED her - found a good reason to sideline her. She really didn't have good story until the last year at NBC.

Indeed, the new Blacklist has not only Larry Bryggman aka Johnny D but also Dorothy Lyman as his wife!

Lyman looks like hell!

I shall watch Johnny Boy Dixon on Blacklist tomorrow on nbc.com. I wish Little Miss Seattle could have been on with him. And Andrew.

So much homely in r60's post. Now if we could've gotten Dennis Cole as John, Andrea Evans as Little Miss Seattle, and Cameron Matheson as Andy, I'd tune in to Blacklust,

Go fuck yourself, DDD.

[quote] I shall watch Johnny Boy Dixon on Blacklist tomorrow on nbc.com. I wish Little Miss Seattle could have been on with him. And Andrew.

What about me, Kiddo?

Wouldn't that be something, Mom?

Fuck off, homely r64! No one ever believed I could've given birth to such an ugly creature. Dylan Bruce, most definitely yes. Bailey Chase, most definitely yes. But you, absolutely not, toots! Fuck off, uggo!

Linda Dano as we've (almost) never seen her before at around 23:00

I so wanted to have a boyfriend like Andrew Dixon.

What am I saying? My first boyfriend kinda WAS Andy Dixon, right down to the swoopy hair. And his mom was a LOT like Kim.

r67=fuggo chaser

R17, go to 1:55; if you don't think Eileen is the definitive Lisa after this scene, I'm sending you "home in a box!"

Eileen is pretty great in the scene, clearly not putting up with Liz's going off script.

Eileen and Liz so seldomly shared scenes.....I only remember one or two other instances.

Loved when Lisa would complain about "ole Lucy."

FYI (Emmy reel poster)

Are you sure about the Anne Heche reel you posted? I know for a fact one of her submitted Emmy reels was the episode she confronted a bed ridden Jake about him raping her.

R68 drinks from the toilet bowl.

God Iva was the wet noodle in every scene she entered.

[quote][R68] drinks from the toilet bowl.

So?

[quote] God Iva was the wet noodle in every scene she entered.

She only had a job when Douglas Marland was alive, and no matter what soap Marland would be on, he would hire her.

No surprise the minute Marland expired, Lisa Brown was out of a job. Surprised she got rehired on Guiding Light. but then again she was fired off that show as well.

Did Eileen Fulton the toilet plugger ever have a scene where she didn’t fumble her lines. Jesus.

Do you think when Hubbard went off-script, it went something like this?

I love the reaction of the other soap Stars when Hoffman starts going off script in the fictional soap. Just looking around with the best "wtf" reactions.

Oops, forgot the link.

That Hoffman bit in Tootsie was a Tony Geary/General Hospital compliant. Geary would just toss the script and ad lib and Monty let him get away with it, upsetting his co-stars. John Beradino HATED Geary, but adored Genie Francis and the George Gaynes doctor in Tootsie was said to be based on Beradino.

Dorothy Michaels was Lisa/Fulton, I’ve heard

Lisa Brown was great.

Lisa Brown was another one who couldn’t get through a scene without stumbling her lines.

Sure, Doug hired Lisa Brown more than once; just as Bill Bill cast Susan Hayes more than once and Jill Phelps kept giving jobs to that guy who played the racist kid who beat up David on GL.

Everyone does it.

I think the Lucinda/Iva feud was great.

Two great lines Liz had: one to Craig about Iva: "She's not good enough for you. She has the unmistakable aura of Las Vegas!"

another, after Craig witnesses a fight between Lucinda and Iva; to Lucinda, he says: "What's the deal with you and Iva Synder?"

Lucinda rolling her eyes: "I might ask you the same thing."

Kevin McClatchy!

I loved Kevin McClatchy! He was wasted on GL and should have been a front burner character.

I remembered seeing him in a short film (A Friend of Dorothy) where a sort of nerdy gay guy falls for him, and at the end, they....well, check it out. He looks great in his underwear!

[quote]I loved Kevin McClatchy! He was wasted on GL

Who did he play? I remember him from AW, as Nick Hudson.

Kevin played a guy named Vinnie, who was a short term villain. But he had that same kind of "Wow!" energy that I remember having when I first saw Grant and later, Vincent Irizarry.

Vinnie ended up being killed off, if I remember right. But Jill Farren Phelps should have either made Vinnie a long term character or cast Kevin as Hart Jessup - a role they'd had a hell of a time getting the right guy to play.

This article is from 4 years ago.....he still looks good!

McClatchy made my peen hard.

Iva was such a dull, mopey character, and Lisa Brown was so unattractive. Would've loved to have seen what a sexy actress with energy and vitality like Jackie Zeman or Susan Scannell could've done with the role.

I was at a traffic light in Hollywood and looked over; he's in the car next to me. I yell over, 'loved u on GL' and he lit up like a Christmas Tree. He seemed genuinely appreciative and friendly.

what blows my mind is that we were treated to daily episodes like this over 30 years ago.

thank goodness for youtube.

go to 34:29 to see Iva find out from bank manager Ed Brewster what Lucinda is up to.

later, in the show Craig and Lucinda have a classic showdown and then later still Iva and Lucinda go at it.

Great line from Lucy to Iva: "My heart is breaking...but not really!"

R90, it'd be great someday to see a book on all the great Marland characters, especially the women: GH's Bobbie, Loving's Lorna and Ava, GL's Nola, ATWT's Meg

R93 No one cares. Marland was a one trick pony. Very overrated.

There was a point on both Lemay's AW and Marland's ATWT where it was like excellent repertory theater.

Oh, please, r95! Keep telling yourself that. So pretentious. They were soaps, pure and simple...bottom of the barrel entertainment to appeal to low IQ viewers. Please don't confuse them with theater. That's insulting to people who work in the theater. Have you ever even seen a play? If you watch soaps like I and most normal people do for shock value and eye candy, all well and good. But please, you are seriously damaged if you watch them for "quality" storytelling comparable to theater.

Kevin McClatchy looks a 1000 times better older. Woooaaa.

R96, I've been to the theatre.

Some of the actors yell to the cheap seats and it's obvious.

"The theatah, the theatAh - what book of rules says the theater exists only within some ugly buildings crowded into one square mile of New York City? Or London, Paris, or Vienna? Listen, junior. And learn. Want to know what the theater is? A flea circus. Also opera. Also rodeos, carnivals, ballets, Indian tribal dances, Punch and Judy, a one-man band - all theater. Wherever there's magic and make-believe and an audience - there's theater. Donald Duck, Ibsen, and the Lone Ranger. Sarah Bernhardt and Poodles Hanneford, Lunt and Fontanne, Betty Grable, Rex the Wild Horse, Eleanora Duse - they're all theater. You don't understand them, you don't like them all - why should you? The theater's for everybody - you included, but not exclusively - so don't approve or disapprove. It may not be your theater, but it's theater for somebody, somewhere...It's just that there's so much bourgeois in this ivory green room they call the theater. Sometimes it gets up around my chin."

[quote] I loved Kevin McClatchy! He was wasted on GL

One of Jill Farren Phelps biggest casting blunders was firing Justin Chambers (Grey's Anatomy) - he was hired by the previous producer, but Jill wanted to install one of her faves (Kevin McClatchy) - FOJ (who she would later hire yet again on OLTL)

So now years later Justin Chambers is a major network star, while Kevin McClatchy is teaching drama at a University.

btw when Jill quit Another World, Kevin McClatchy was fired by the new incoming producer Charlotte Savitz.

[quote] Sure, Doug hired Lisa Brown more than once; just as Bill Bill cast Susan Hayes more than once and Jill Phelps kept giving jobs to that guy who played the racist kid who beat up David on GL.

And with the exception if Suzi Hayes, none of those actors panned out in their roles.

I said what I said.

And did not stutter.

R100 Kevin was a miscast for Nick, who needed to be younger to play Michael's son.

Liz Hubbard must've been hell to work with, what with throwing off her screen partners with her ad libs. Bitch, you're paid an unreasonable amount of money to just say the line as written. No need to add anything.

R101, J'adore La Hayes, but I can't say Joanna Manning was a success. Julie is her role. And she is divine in it. I thought if anyone would upset Camryn Grimes at the Emmys it would be Susan.

I have my favorites as does everyone. On paper, I was incensed at all the Texas folks that infiltrated Springfield when Pam and Gail took over GL. But I sure liked Jay Hammer as Fletcher; and Michael Woods was believable as a Reardon; and I can't imagine GL without Beverlee's Alexandra.

That said, I have never ever once in my life said: Oh, Jill Phelps is taking over this show! Yippee! I'm setting my DVR now!

GL was ruined with the Santa Barbara additions of scenery chewing Justin Deas, air gasping Marj, the miscast Marcy (Tangerine! - that NAME!), and others. I think even Bunny showed up in a short term role. ENOUGH!

I acknowledge that my taste is just that, my taste. Douglas Marland gave tons of screen time and story to Lisa Brown's Iva. It didn't bother me. I never felt story for Kim, Margo, Barbara, Lisa waned in favor of Iva. In fact, Craig's romance with her and Lucinda's feud with Iva made the Craig/Lucinda dynamic all the more rich.

R105, her name was Tangie, not Tangerine. Get it right.

R106, I sit corrected; I can't find it ,but I recall I believe Nancy Curlee saying she knew someone once named Tangerine and she named Tangie after that person, but I can't swear.

Fair enough, R107. They never called her “Tangerine,” though.

Lisa Brown was terrible. She repeated her lines. She repeated her lines.

Lisa Brown wasn’t the problem. Iva was. She was compelling as Nila. Iva was a sad sack who walked through Oakdale in a depression.

Also, she was just as deceitful and manipulative as Lucinda when it came to Lily but never suffered for long as a result-Lucinda did. I couldn’t understand why Kirk or Craig or even Steve wanted her. She was a deaf. The only one that made sense was Jason, the guy she married at the end of her time on the show, because he was an unattractive nonentity.

Sorry for the typos-substitute Nola for Nila and Dud for Deaf.

Iva was such a dull sad-sack character. Just depressing. You wanted to throw yourself off a ledge when she was on screen. In fact, the whole show was cold and depressing. Something so cold and sterile about it, unlike GL, which always seemed more upbeat, warm and energetic.

Douglas Marland protected Lisa Brown - when he died P&G & CBS did what they wanted to do from day one - FIRE Lisa Brown.

[quote] J'adore La Hayes

BTW Susan Seaforth Hayes screen-tested for the part of Alexandra when Bev McKinsey quit the show. But she lost the part to Marj Dusay

Most of the Snyders were boring, but Iva was the dullest of the dull. I hate that Dougie supplanted the Hughes and especially the Stewarts with them. The Stewarts especially suffered under Marland.

Susan Seaforth Hayes would have been great as Alex especially if they had picked someone who wasn’t a hambone to play Alan.

Doug didn’t sideline the Hughes family for the Snyders but he definitely sidelined the Stewarts. Dee should have come back in 1986 or 1987-she had history with John, James and Craig.

[quote] Most of the Snyders were boring

When Marland died, CBS took advantage of that and within a year the entire Synder clan was written out (with the exception of Holden)

Kathleen Widdoes managed to hang on, and was dropped to recurring. However she managed to recur for 15 years, and slowly the rebuilt the Snyder family with Holden and cousin Jack, And that was enough for viewers - Emma, Holden and Jack Snyder along with their wives Lily and Carly. Then sister Meg (though I felt they should have brought Ellie back, and have Marie Wilson play that sister)

[quote] Please don't confuse them with theater. That's insulting to people who work in the theater.

Ah you do realize that most theater people work on soap operas to pay the bills, as they make more doing a day on a soap than a week on-stage.

Yes, they did soaps to pay the bills. That was mostly true for the NY-based soaps through the 70s and 80s when people were hired for looks and talent, and many of these people had their roots in theater. The soap roles subsidized their work in the theater. But do you honestly think they viewed soaps comparable to theater? Most of them looked down on soap writing, which is often poor. The New York theater actors would often elevate the inferior writing.

I'd never heard the name Tangie before the casting of Marcy Walker on GL.

I seem to recall an interview Marcy did with Michael Logan of TV Guide when she was first cast saying she'd never heard of the name either and didn't want to play a character named after a tangerine.

Several years later, my jaw dropped and I got a chuckle while watching the nighttime soap Felicity on the WB (the show that introduced Kerri Russell, Scott Speedman and Scott Foley to the world). One of Felicity's dormmates was an African-American coed named Elena. The actress who played Elena was named Tangi Miller.

[quote] Doug didn’t sideline the Hughes family for the Snyders but he definitely sidelined the Stewarts.

That is not accurate. When Doug took over the show there was Ellen and Betsy and that's it. Henderson Forsythe refused to commit and even did his "appearance" on the anniversary show by phone. Doug played Ellen plenty and gave Betsy story for years.

And Doug brought Emily and Susan back. He brought Dee and Annie (and her kids) back for the anniversary show. He even specifically had Dee interact with Brian, Tom, and John. I bet Doug had longterm plans for the Quads, just like he did for the other kids he never aged (like Bonnie and Adam).

[quote] Douglas Marland gave tons of screen time and story to Lisa Brown's Iva. It didn't bother me. I never felt story for Kim, Margo, Barbara, Lisa waned in favor of Iva. In fact, Craig's romance with her and Lucinda's feud with Iva made the Craig/Lucinda dynamic all the more rich.

Back in the days when

(a) a show could afford those actors

(b) a writer could afford the time and actors to draw different shadings in a story

(c) the networks didn't live or die by focus groups, so a writer just got on with telling a story

Darling!

James Wlcek/Linc Lafferty got me all hot and bothered, but I didn't understand at the time what it all meant.

Wlcek’s blond hair always looked dyed when I don’t think it was.

Happy 64th (!!) birthday John Wesley Shipp!

Wlcek always looked Polish to me.

Remember when JWS had to suck Doug Marland’s toes to get a job? Yikes.

R128 is so tiresome.

True, r129. That never doesn't get old.

You know what's truly tiresome? The slavish devotion to McFlimsy. With a voice that sounded like the proverbial nails on a chalkboard and an acting style that would've made Pia Zadora cringe, the continued love for this woman is inexplicable. Also unfathomable is the love for that unfortunate looking Ellen Parker. She was the acting equivalent of a sleeping pill. It's like loving a sominex tablet. JFP and the focus groups were spot on with her.

Are Spicen and DDD the same queen?

Serial nutcase is like the only McFlimzy lover. Serial nutjob is so dumb!

The laughable thing is that the idiot who posts that shit has the rumor backwards. He can't even be a nagging, pestering ass sore correctly.

Something is definitely mentally off with that person.

I need a drink!

I agree that Doug didn't sideline the Stewarts; Henderson wouldn't stay on as a regular. That actress who played Dee (she was also Eileen Simpson on AW opposite Ray Liotta); she did a lot with the two days she was back as Dee; interacting with Brian and John...nice stuff.

I believe Doug was so impressed with Marie Masters he worked her back onto the show; the Kim/Bob/Susan story was terrific.

Years and years later when Carmella (sp?) Soprano threw Tony out and threw his crap on the lawn, people were saying 'omg I've never seen anything like this. ' All I could think of was Kim saying: Susan, you better get out of here because in about two seconds I'm going to FLATTEN you!

It was a golden age of TV and soaps. I watch it a lot on youtube.

Wasn't Larry Bryggman married to one of the actresses who played Dee? She was much younger than him.

I'd love to see a compilation of ATWT's best bitchy moments. I'm sure it would be dominated by Lucinda and Barbara, but I bet Emily, Susan and even Kim would be represented.

Favorite Lucinda line (at one of Lisa's weddings): "Oh my God, she's wearing white!"

at 52:25, procession starts.

"she's wearing white! And a veil!!" - Lucinda to James

I never thought Marland was a good fit for ATWT. He completely shifted the focus of the show to that silly farm and those business stories that just took over. PG should have gone for a writer like Wisner Washam or Claire Labine. Claire would have taken the show back to its core. Wisner would have utilized the Hughes and Stewart to create modern and relevant to the times stories. The should have sent Doug over to AW.

Amen, r140. Marland was so overrated. The Snyders were dull, dull, dull. And don't forget that stupid Castle McKechnie nonsense that was like watching paint dry. Who at P&G/CBS greenlit that silliness? The show was too cold and antiseptic under him too. I know rigidity was his M.O., but that wasn't ATWT. He would've been a better fit for AW.

r140 r141 I, for one, would have loved all those gossip-as-recap scenes that started in act 3, only at Tops instead of the Mona Lisa.

Would Lucinda have lived in Bay City instead of Oakdale, torturing the Frames instead of the Snyders? Exquisite, darling.

Christ, I hated all those gossipy recap scenes. Lazy exposition masquerading as profound character interactions. They were just so pretentious and never rang true.

[quote] Wasn't Larry Bryggman married to one of the actresses who played Dee? She was much younger than him.

Yes, Jackie Courtney, one of the longer-running Dees, but not the last one who came back for the anniversary show. She also was one of the Pattys on SFT.

[quote]Yes, Jackie Courtney,

That would be news to Ms. Courtney.

Then you shouldn't have watched, r143. The pretense, as you label it, was part of the charm. I could hardly wait to get to act 3 every day.

[quote] I believe Doug was so impressed with Marie Masters he worked her back onto the show; the Kim/Bob/Susan story was terrific.

She was back for a visit at some point and yes, he liked her so much he brought her back long term.

R139 I just laughed my ass off at that scene. Thanks!

I didn't remember Grant Colman being there to give her away, either.

R144

Larry Bryggman was married to Alice Matthews????????????????

No, Larry was married to Jackie Schultz (ATWT's Dee), not Jackie Courtney (AW's Alice).

They were both cunts.

My grammy couldn't stand McFlimsy. She would refer to Iris as "Virus" because she said that her voice and the sight of her trying to act made her physically ill. Also, I want to point out at that my auntie was part of the focus group that resulted in Bore-reen Bauer being killed off. My auntie was so cute. On her response card, she wrote that she didn't feel qualified to render an accurate decision about Ellen Parker because she dozed off the second Parker came on screen and wasn't able to view her performance. She also added that she wanted to see an actress named Katherine Glass back on screen and that GL would be the ideal home for her.

Schultz! Schultz! A thousand apologies! Never post before fully awake.

Trolls, please, I beg of you, get some new material.

Due to extreme homeliness, the role of Drew, formerly known as Andrew, Dixon is now being played by Cameron Mathison.

r155 = one sick fuck

Doug had plenty of non-Snyder stories.

The Douglas Cummings story was his biggest one; it involved Kim, Frannie, Bob and others.

Doug took professional victim Barbara and turned her into a great bitch. I loved watching Tom and Margo find their way back to each other BEFORE Tom found out he hadn't slept with Babs.

Craig and Sierra.

Lisa and Earl; Lisa vs. Lucinda.

Loved Shannon; she was like Holly Golightly.

I loved it when Lucinda would bemoan Lily spending so much time out at the farm and her disdain for Iva.

r158 Darling!

One of Doug's greatest strengths was to recognize chemistry when he saw it and change stories. Casey was brought on for Frannie, but he saw something between Casey and Lyla, for example. Holden and Emily were supposed to be the longterm couple, not Holden and Lily. Instead of sticking to his plans and forcing a couple on the audience, he let things go organically.

Well anyone who would prefer Martha Bryne over Melanie Smith is a complete moron.

One of the YouTube posters who's been uploading episodes of The Doctors also includes the tape dates. It's fascinating that even a decade after live episodes mostly went out of vogue, the taping-airdate gap was only a week. That's something to miss in today's soap landscape, adaptability. Also, playing catchup, it seems obvious in retrospect that George Gaynes in Tootsie is John Bernadino.

r160 and your ilk, will you please stop deifying Marland. The way you speak about this man, you'd think he wrote, produced, directed, cast, and manned the security desk for the show. He didn't decide who had chem and who didn't. That was collaborative decision between him, producers, the network, P&G and lord knows who else. And ALL shows chem-test new actors with prospective romantic interests and will regularly reroute storylines to accommodate unexpected chem between actors. He didn't invent that.

Kiss our collective P&G/Midwestern Towns-worshiping ass, r163. Give your idol Cameron Mathison a call: maybe he'll let you come over and lick his ass clean next time he takes a shit.

Let's pay a visit to Bay City, 30 years ago today: Cass confronts Nicole with the lipstick-stained handkerchief and they argue. Amanda stops by BRAVA before going home after returning from her business trip. Sam thinks he's greeting Amanda and opens the door half nude to Caroline. She tells him his work is being entered in a show. As he shows her his newest work, she subtly takes the phone off the hook. Rick tells Julie Ann he wants to spend his life with her. Iris is unhappy with Mac and Rachel's togetherness. Amanda comes home and is shocked to find Sam and Caroline talking in the bedroom. Nicole tells Cass she doesn't think they have as much in common as they used to. Iris leaves a message for Michael to meet Mac at the Pelican Club for lunch. Sam soothes Amanda's anger. Caroline goes to visit Cass and he tells her about his fight with Nicole. Rachel tells Mac that she saw Josie being wild at a fraternity party. Iris waits for Michael to arrive at the Pelican. Jason and Nicole discuss her mother and Jason apologizes. Iris asks Michael to be her business confidante. Mac asks Sam to plan Jamie's bachelor party.

R163, tell me what soaps are grabbing you these days; when was the last time you couldn't wait to see tomorrow's episode?

Doug was a freaking genius; he left us waaaay too early. What's nice is that he had been given a big tribute at the Soap Opera Awards a week or so before he died. He won the Editors' Award and the Margo HIV rape won an award too.

He called his mom from a pay phone that's long been removed from just outside the mens' lounge in the ballroom at the Beverly Hilton.

R162

Only Days has a long tape to air schedule = 6 months

YR, GH, B&B tape 3 weeks ahead

[quote] He didn't decide who had chem and who didn't. That was collaborative decision between him, producers, the network, P&G and lord knows who else.

That is actually not true - he had total creative control and CBS & P&G had no say. That was the agreement he made with them before he would even consider being ATWT headwriter

After what happened with last tenure (on Guiding Light) his BFF Jane Elliot was fired, and he had no say over that matter - he quit in protest. He wasn't going to let that happen again, which is why he had total creative control

R168, you are talking to a certifiable lunatic. Ignore it.

Poor Jane Elliot - she quit General Hospital and demurred when asked what she was going to do next.

Years later she revealed that she was going to join ATWT in a brand new role her BFF Doug Marland was going to write just for her. But before she could even pack her bags, Marland died and Elliot found herself unemployed.

Jeanne Cooper tells the same story, r170. Just how many old hags did Dougie in all his exclusive creative control plan on adding to the canvass.

R171 I doubt that Jeanne Cooper story because no way would Bill Bell let her slip from his hands, as she was enormously popular on Y&R

P&G had the most overrated "actresses": Hubbard, Lisa Brown, Byrne, Zimmer, McFlimsy, Mary Kay Adams, the Other M, Lady Camargo, Dano, Bulldyke Ford, Irene "Lez" Daily.

DL has the most overrated "poster": DDD @ r173.

Imagine how much more fun and interesting the Snyders would've been if CBS/P&G had raided the soaps with youthful, vibrant audiences and nabbed Susan Lucci as Iva, Andrea Evans as Meg, Josh Morrow as Caleb, Ron Moss as Seth, Kristian Alfonso as Ellie, and Constance Towers as Emma? That is my dream Synder family.

Imagine how dull and tired r175 is, with this same shit week after week. Wait: you don't have to imagine it. You can find it in this thread, almost every other post.

I loved McTavish's HW stint at GL. It was wacky and loony and campy and OTT. It was the shot in the arm that a stodgy, old-fashioned, family-based soap like GL needed. Finally, finally, finally, I felt like I was watching an ABC soap, and that's always a good thing.

GL and ATWT music fans; do any of you know what movie (if it is from one) the following score is from?

I heard it played on ATWT in '86 during Craig and Iva's romance and on GL in '87 when Johnny Bauer had cancer.

If it was created by P&G show staff composers I'm out of luck, but I'm hoping it's from a tearjerker film.

I know ABC somehow acquired the score to Terms of Endearment and played it for many of its couples on GH; There was a tune from Sophie's Choice played in the EDGE finale.

It's George Winston.

Cynthia Watros (Annie Dutton) 1998 Daytime Emmy Reel for Guiding Light

First Reel - Annie goes on a bender, after her miscarriage story is exposed

Second Reel - Annie's wedding is interrupted when her first husband shows up to stop the wedding.

This is the reel that BEAT Susan Lucci, Kim Zimmer and Eileen Davidson (who did 5 characters on Days of our Lives, on her reel)

Why don't we see any McFlimsy reals? Oh yeah because she was not nomimated.

R181

She was nominated 4 times. Now go away peasant.

McKunty never won an emmy. Ha ha ha ha. Not even a lifetime achievement. Didn’t people like Helen Wagner, Don Hastings, Kathy Hays, Rachel Ames, Anna Lee etc all get lifetime achievements one year? No McKunty to be found there.

R179, bless you. Sincerely.

Evidently, Martha Byrne is anti-choice. That's disappointing.

Link, r185.

Her Twitter.

Martha Byrne hasn’t been relevant in over 10 years. F her.

Now I don't feel so bad Chris Goutman fired her

I thought the same thing, r189.

Does anyone know Lucy Deakins' stance on abortion?

It's a sad day when someone is trashed for opposing the killing of a live baby.

I must know how Noelle Beck feels.

Heather Rattray's stance on the issue is what counts most here.

I love all these Lily references; I love 'em all.

Lucy was probably the best actress; I am among those who thought Rattray was perfectly fine and quite good in the part given that Lily was growing up finally.

Noelle was classy to offer to step down and let Martha come back to finish it out; nobody cared whether or not Holden and Lily got together in the end b/c it wasn't Lily.

Poor Eileen Fulton, who put ATWT on the map, was reduced to a glorified extra in the final episode. That was just so humiliating. I read that she originally had more to do in the episode, but that Goutman cut most of her scenes to accommodate tying up other storylines.

Heather Rattray was my Lily.

[quote] It's a sad day when someone is trashed for opposing the killing of a live baby.

Since that's NOT what is happening, fuck right on off.

Byrne's husband is a NYC cop, right? I know from personal experience that many of those guys are very socially conservative, especially the ones that live in the outer boroughs. Maybe some of that rubbed off on her.

I would have sworn Watros' reel included Annie's meltdown on the witness stand where Ross exposed her (even though he was the d.a.; it should have been Reva's lawyer doing that, but Jerry was soooo damn good.)

Poor Jerry ver Dorn. In all his years on GL and then OLTL, did he ever have an attractive leading lady, maybe besides Sherry Stringfield? They seemed to throw dogs at him.

Jane Elliot, despite her harsh demeanor, is actually quite attractive.

Also, Rebecca Hollen, I think, is beautiful

Elliot is not pretty IMO. Forgot Hollen. Yes, she was pretty. When Jerry first joined GL, they tried to pair him with mousy Janet Grey (Evie Stapleton). She was just homely.

Speaking of little 'Evie,' Jerry was paired with Maeve. She's a beauty.

I'm not sure I'd call Maeve a beauty. She definitely had an exotic/ethnic look to her, kind of like Anna Stuart, but I don't see her as conventionally pretty.

Michelle Forbes has landed a big role of Grey's Anatomy.

Lord, how I loved the Sonni/Solita story on GL.

Are you nuts, Maeve Kinkead was incredibly beautiful. Her early years as Vanessa especially.

Jesus I just rewatched this Guiding Light scenes with Annie on the witness stand for the first time in years - holy f*** that was such riveting television -believe it or not, it was seriously tune-in daily Zimmer is always amazing but Cynthia was just a f****** knockout.

Really, r208? Your keyboard is missing "uck"?

Carmen Duncan, who played Iris on Another World from 1988-1994, passed away at age 76 after a battle with cancer.

Sad. She was so different from McKinsey that I never bought her as Iris, but I came to like her nonetheless.

I never knew another Iris, so she was Iris to me. Her intro when LBE comes to the front door on a Friday was one of my favorite Freeze Frames ever.

What color was the Cory front door?

Writing off Iris for the sake of the Rachel and Carl romance was one of the numerous big mistakes in AW's final years.

R212

LBE?

[quote]Writing off Iris for the sake of the Rachel and Carl romance was one of the numerous big mistakes in AW's final years.

But the biggest wuz gittin' rid of mah fav'rite theme song. You are mah way, bitches!

R214, that's a typo. I saw it the second after I pushed "play." It should have been LEB for Lady Eyes-a-Buggin (or would it be LEAB?)

Thank you for pointing it out.

Now...what color was the front door at 10 Underhill Terrace?

r215 For you, Crystal.

R214,

LBE - Lady Bug Eyes aka Rachel aka Victoria Wyndham.

(in my Hyancith Bucket voice with eyeball)

It's "Lady Eyes A Buggin'"!

Carmen was great. She definitely nailed Iris in some of the same ways McKinsey did, very well.

I could never quite get over Iris with an Australian accent. But she was quite good.

Speaking of Iris has anyone see a clips of the scenes where she learns Mac isn't her biological father?

R216, I could cheat and go to youtube but I won't. was it … blue?

I shoulda cheated

Nope. Not blue.

The sofa was blue, though (with beige stripes).

I've since cheated; it was unique; I'm old enough to have watched the show back when it was that drawing/living room with the desk and the big red chair; it led out to the outside; but then they re- did it so that there was a traditional doorway that led right into the house that you could see.

The best home makeover was that foyer 'Steve Andropolous' added to Kim's house. It allowed everyone to make an entrance as they came down those stairs.

The front door and the sofa (which was never replaced).

Just saw on Twitter that Candice Early passed this weekend as well.

Carnen Duncan was THE Iris. Much much much much better than Mckunty. RIP sweet lady.

All the people we loved in the 70s and 80s are all IN their 70s or 80s now. Well, a lot of them, anyway.

R209 Welcome to the downside of using voice to text. Why? Was at work. Sorry if it offended

Has anyone checked in on Vicky bug eyes lately? I worry about her.

I do love this clip with Original Recipe Iris, Lady Eyes A Buggin and Douglass Watson.

AND

the original theme music.

But goodness, both Beverlee and La Wyndham look like someone dressed them in the dark.

Roger Newcomb must be about to shut We Love Soaps down. One of the biggest soap news weekends in forever and his site hasn't updated since last week.

Roger Newcomb is prolly still telling everyone to not out Van, his true love. I have shared this story before. Roger did Nuke get togethers, but if you mentioned being gay or talked to Van being gay, you were asked to leave, citing Van’s privacy. The funny part was that Van couldn’t have cared less and freely talked about Tyler but Roger was such a controlling queen. I love Van, but hate Roger to this day for how he handled those Nuke get togethers. He was an idiot.

So sad to hear about Carmen Duncan's passing. I really liked her but to me she never really was Iris. Not her fault since she played what they wrote. Never believed Iris would be interested in the business world. They really destroyed the character at the end which was very sad. I've always wondered what an actress like Lara Parker (Angelique on Dark Shadows) would have done with the part of Iris. I think she would have been incredible. To this day I think Lara would have been a perfect fit for Iris...

on one hand, McKinsey was irreplaceable; on the other, I loved Duncan in the part. The accent, the strength, her style...she had it all.

I know Richard Backus was married, but I always got a gay vibe from him.

not to single Backus out, never met him, but plenty of gay guys get married; some straight guys never marry; and some gay ones have fucked women in college.

they call it fluid today, but I think that's more of a way of saying who gives a fuck anymore.

I’m just glad that McKunty croaked before the woman who played her better! Carmen - RIP You WERE Iris!!!!!!!!

R240, go to hell.

I really wish Muriel would ban R240 forever.

Aside from reaching Prancing Ponies levels of bullshit here, he's now called for and/or rejoiced over the death of an actress in threads here numerous times. We've had quite enough of that horseshit.

It's Spicen, r242.

This thread has grown more coma-inducing than looking at a photo of Ellen Parker.

Serial nutjob ruins everything. He’s so dumb!

JFP's focus groups were EVERYTHING. Maureen Bauer and Frankie Frame were dull as Ada's dishwater, and the focus groups rightly agreed.

Boy, Connie Ford really relied on the cue cards here.

[quote] Roger Newcomb must be about to shut We Love Soaps down. One of the biggest soap news weekends in forever and his site hasn't updated since last week.

He said he was sick with the flu, and has just updated the site

Roger is still upset that Van turned him down.

The dumbass Serial nutjob needs mental help. So does that alcoholic Dizzel. Morons.

Whatever happened to that really hot daddy Scotsman? I saw him once on Eleventh Avenue in NYC and, alas, no vibe.

Michael Swan?

Yes. Gorgeous.

Although I think Mart Hulswit was really the definitive Ed Bauer, I wish Richard Van Vleet would've worked out. He had leading man good looks and was a good actor, and I thought he had good chemistry with Ellen Dolan and Susie Pratt. He was certainly more appealing than mopey, gloomy Peter Simon.

I bet Connie would have kicked one of her scene partner in the cunt if they relied on the Cue Cards as much as she did.

Linda Dano actually said Connie bought Playboy Magazine during her lunch hour

[quote]I think Mart Hulswit was really the definitive Ed Bauer

I agree. Mart was not the sexiest guy but I though the chemistry between Mart and Lenore Kasdorf was great.

On the contrary, I thought Mart was very sexy. Did either of the Bauer Brothers ever do shirtless / bedroom scenes?

Mart - before he gained a bit of weight - was very hot. Great body and a sweet innocent face. He looked good in polo shirts too.

Nice scene between Ada and Rose Perini starting at 6:15. Rose was played by a pre-Emma Snyder Kathleen Widdoes.

That's followed by a brief scene between Rachel and Mike Randolph, played by Lionel Johnson.

Later at 17:17, there's a scene of Wesley Ann Pfenning playing Alice. Not sure who the man in the scene is.

R251 He's unbearably hot.

But also unbearably right wing, sad to say.

This photo was within the last 3 years.......

Duncan bad.

I could play a round on that chest any day (or night).

That photo was at age 68, so....I mean, he's definitely a total stud.

Who had the larger cock...Grant Aleksander or Connie Ford?

Connie Ford’s by a mile. Oh wait, she wasn’t into cock.

What the fuck is a Wesley Ann Pfenning?

OMG forgot about nutty Catholic Aunt Rita. I think the Church Lady was based on her!

And who played Miss Banta, the head of Sally's school? Is that Pat Englund from Lovers and Friends?

Wesley Ann Pfenning was obviously such a better actress than Jacqueline Courtney. Trolling the Lemay troll....

That's Elizabeth Wilson as Miss Banta. You might remember her as Roz in 9 to 5. Eileen was played by Vicky Dawson who was one of the Dees on ATWT.

Poor Irene Dailey. Liz was a pretty menacing and central character when played by the divine Audra Lindley. By the time Dailey took over, Liz was reduced to an interfering busybody that nobody paid attention to.

I'm sorry, R270, what did you say? I was busy polishing my Emmy.

[quote] Liz was reduced to an interfering busybody that nobody paid attention to.

Is that why she won the Emmy?

[quote]Wesley Ann Pfenning was obviously such a better actress than Jacqueline Courtney.

Who is Jacqueline Courtney?

More importantly, R273, who is Wesley Ann Pfenning?

And why is her name "Wesley Ann"?

So, there was a Vana before Vanna White? Interesting.

Vana Tribbey was married to actor Larry Linville on M*A*S*H fame during the time she was on Another World as Alice.

[quote] Wesley Ann Pfenning was obviously such a better actress than Jacqueline Courtney.

Termite-filled blocks of wood could act better.

Who are those broke bitches?

Why does everyone forget about me?

I adore Harding Lemay but I couldn't care less that he said Harney was the more technically proficient actress - who cares?

As Lemay himself admits, there are some qualities that make someone a star and that's what Jacquie was.

The show made a BIG mistake by not keeping Courntey back on the show after she came back in 1989 first for the anniversary and then Mac's funeral.

All they needed was a new guy they could fight over and the sparks would have flown. Granted, that'd be a tall order. At the end of the day, I didn't care for Rachel and Carl; dude tried to kill her and Mac.

By 1989, everyone was chasing the young demo, which would not be found in Rachel and Alice sparring over a man yet again. The show was top heavy with women of that age, so no one would be asking Courtney back.

and yet, R282, over on ATWT, a much higher rated show, we had, a year later, in 1990 Kim and Susan going at it and it was a very popular story.

Plus, Rachel had stories throughout the '90s; why not give her a foil whom the audience is already invested in?

AW could have brought on Kevin, Sally's son, paired him with some niece of Rachel's or a Frame daughter/granddaughter she takes in and bam! You've got your young lovers and older parents the audience loves just as much if not more.

I'm all for younger characters, newer characters, etc.

Forget Luke; it was Bobbie, Scotty and Laura that catapulted GH from near cancelation to the near top and then top. But they didn't do it alone. Lesley, Rick, Alan, Monica, and Tracy were all instrumental in GH's rise and the show experiencing a glory era.

And when Carlivati tapped into that era around the show's 30th, the demos increased.

nobody had more top heavy older woman than ATWT -- Kim, Susan, Lucinda, Emma, Ellen, and (Eileen Fulton as) Lisa!

What works then, as now, is a multi-generational show.

R283 the rating may have shot up, but ATWT had horrible demos. The minute Doug Marland died, CBS took action and began MASSIVE cast cuts, and started bringing in new characters to appeal to a "youth" audience. But the ratings plunged even further.

Doug was unique in that he could juggle a cast of 45 to 60; even if someone came on for a few plot points, say, Monica and Corrine Lawrence or Trish Mason (Derek's sister - did she ever land a man in real life? Kidding) you know exactly who that person was and what storyline they were servicing, adding to...and then they'd be gone, brought back if needed.

Other soaps were top heavy in older women -- the Stephanie/Sally feud was second only to Stephanie/Brooke on B&B; OLTL had, of course, Dorian v. Viki. These were not young women and if they were in their 40s (which ain't young, but it's not ancient) they had teen or grown kids so all different kind of demos could find something they liked.

Sunset Beach was all about young hot people and the show never took off (creatively, it got better at the end.)

Story. Families. Have kids in the forefront? Sure! Look at Laura and Scotty and Bobbie on GH; the Four Musketeers on GL; Greg, Jenny, Liza, Tad, Jesse, Angie on AMC; all great examples.

But keep your vets, too.

[quote] Trish Mason (Derek's sister - did she ever land a man in real life? Kidding)

Nicely played, R286.

thanks, R287

She was actually good in that role; Lisa Mansfield? not so much.

I once started a thread titled something like 'there's a new tennis pro a the springfield country club.'

it hit 600 relatively quickly IIRC

I don't think Lemay had an issue with Reinholt's acting. I thought it was just that Reinholt was such a diva and very difficult to work with, which is why Rauch fired him.

As I recall, Ms. Courtney wrote her lines on her blouse cuffs. She and George were not skilled enough to handle the writing we were doing at the time.

Read my book for the details.

Jackie was a star. That Harney creature had zero charisma.

it was a punch in the stomach to Liz when Rachel and Mac announced their engagement or marriage.

Irene was the bomb!

then again, she was up against Beverlee and Vicky Wyndham; also, La Hayes, and Nancy Addison and Helen Gallagher.

who knows who votes split? Shemar beat Christian AND Kristoff to win his.

But I loved Liz.

Irene liked the ladies. She had no use for cock.

Douglass Watson was so homely and sort of femme to be effective as a leading man. You could never understand why Rachel loved him or why Iris was so fixated on him. I always thought a more rugged, square jawed actor would've been more believable in the role. My choices would've been someone who didn't actually look testosterone deficient, like Jeremy Slate, Phil Carey, Lee Patterson, or Jerry Douglas.

I saw Irene Dailey on Broadway in Strindberg's "The Father" the year after she made her final appearance on "Another World". The scene where she manipuated Frank Langella into a straight jacket was tear inducing and should have gotten Irene that Tony Nomination that she deserved for "The Subject Was Roses" long before she became a soap star.

What about my Tallulah-esque performances as two look-alike villains 20 years apart on "Guiding Light", brandishing the same gun in 1984 at Claire, Fletcher, Tony, Annabelle and Jim that I did in 2004 at Ed, Alan, Billy and Josh. Ironically, Reva didn't get the connection between Susan Piper and Caroline Carruthers in scenes we shared, having met me both times.

Irene Daily loved eating snatch. So did Connie Lez Ford.

What about Geri Court? What did she like to munch on?

Yeah, we got it the first 10,000 times you posted it, R297.

Did Geri Court eat out her bestie bosom buddy Anna Stuart?

Did Geri Court and Mo Garrett's carpets cross when they were on GL?

I miss Lisa McColl stinking up the studio bathroom.

R301 I’m sure that Geri knew whether or not Mo’s carpet matched the drapes.

Kim at 36:00: "Do. you. dig it?"

When Geri played June Lavery on AW, did she bump pussies with Connie or Irene?

I"m a soap fan but these remarks about Lisa and the johns (not Dixon or Eldrige) and lesbian actresses make me not want to check this thread out.

R304 and that was the heart of what ATWT was about in 1986.

Mothers protecting their daughters.

It's a no brainer and soaps have lost that.

R306, you have to put Spicen on ignore. Go ahead. It takes care of it.

thanks R308

Serial nitjob ruins every thread. He’s so god damned stupid!

R306 It's a severely mentally ill person who keeps posting that stuff. Just ignore.

Marisa Tomei and Julianne Moore, both former ATWT performers, found out they are related.

Duh. Of course, they're related.

Frannie's aunt/step-mom Kim was wed to Dan Stewart, who was the half-brother of Paul who was Marcy's father-in-law via her marriage to Stewart Cushing.

Well played R313

Thanks, R314.

I also came up with the 'Trish Mason did she ever get married' line?

the things that are in my head. I can't tell you what's going on with the shows now as much but the Doug Marland and Pam Long glory years of the 80s and early 90s are so accessible in my brain for some reason.

R315, do you remember exactly when Julie Wendall left Oakdale, and how and why?

R315 Mine too. It must have been a formative time for our brain cells. LOL

R317, that and the fact that it was great storytelling; Doug wrote about a town I wanted to live in; Pam created families I wanted to be a part of.

R316, I went into a depression after Doug died, watching what happened to the show after he passed was unbearable. I don't recall most of 1993 on the way I can quote chapter and verse late 85 to late 92.

He may have had a plan to kill Neal off anyway, but Mary Kay Adams leaving really hurt.

Remember the actor who played Hey You on ATWT? He made the local NYC news in 2017 for, um... being beaten with his own hula hoop.

R318 I loved Mary Kay. There is something really special about her.

MARY! r318. Lawdy!

ADA LUCAS DAVIS DOWNS MCGOWAN HOBSON RULED!!!!

Ada kick in the cunt Hobson made me moist - down there.

Something special indeed, R320.

She popped up in a Humans of NY profile a few years ago; she teaches sign language to the deaf.

She gave to every scene she was in; here's the classic showdown with Reva in the Blue Orchid powder room (poor Reva didn't even get to pee!)

At the end, India acknowledges with a frustrated sigh that Reva had a point; not every actress would 'give' that moment to the other person, but when they do everybody wins.

I know that scene well....you low born gutter slut!

What I wouldn't have given to sit on John Bolger's face. That nose....those eyes.

He may not be The Pendulous One, but he was hot, too.

I wouldn't have minded Bolger in another role, but Grant was irreplaceable; so glad he came back.

I know a lot of GL fans love the Rick/Phillip dynamic, but I liked the Phillip/Alan-Michael one; the latter was such a screw up and he couldn't stand Phillip's interference, but by the time Carly Evans left the show the characters were pals.

The infamous bridge scene!

Did Bolger's dong hit the toilet water?

In 328's show, some nice Phillip/Meredith scenes; the nurse -- Hilda -- was also Beatrice on AW and she also played a judge in a case related to Beth and Phillip circa 1983.

Solid actress.

Jacqueline Brooks. RIP.

Hard to image that the 40th anniversary of Roger raping Holly is coming up next month. The infamous marital rape happened on March 5, 1979.

Interestingly, that is the same date that Another World expanded to 90 minutes. So, the marital rape was GL's counter programming to the AW expansion. Meanwhile, OLTL had some intense counter programming as well -- Karen was on the witness stand.

Did Zas know that Mo Garrett liked the lez lez stuff?

Rose Alaio OUT as Helena Manzini

The toilet flush theme. Got to love it for some of the poses though.

My philosophy is why fix something that isn't broken? Like Days or Y&R, World Turns could have kept this for its entire run.

This is the theme they should have stuck with to the end, IMO (with updated, freshened versions, of course). It has such a noir-ish feel that was so right for the sophisticated, shoulder-padded, fur-swathed ATWT of the Eighties.

Thanks, r334, for the reminder that ruining the fuck out of the show was their ultimate goal.

If that had been the theme when I started watching, r335, I could have lived with it.

But this was the theme when I began watching in 1988. It's [italic]the[/italic] theme, AFAIC.

r336 that was a RIDICULOUS theme for World Turns and suited a show like Edge of Night or Dark Shadows. Fuck me, ATWT had a serious identity crisis... no wonder it fell out of the top four soaps so rapidly.

Thanks, R336.

Ewww...how did r340 get in here?

Was the David Domedion listed as Assistant to the Producer in r336 r339 the same Dr. David Domedion who was Dr. Mark Craig's mentor at St. Eligius?

If anyone wants to revisit how the Another World refugees were incorporated into As the World Turns, watch this. ATWT fans did not take kindly to Jake and Vicky being shoved down their throats right from the off. And the less said about Linda Dano travelling around the ABC soaps, the better:

Donna and Marley come to Oakdale to try and take Jake and Vicky's daughters back to Another World, but they will have to get through Kim Hughes first. The question on all of your lips is, does Kim refer to Donna "kiddo"?

Continue to go the fuck away Serial Asshole nutjob. Your own family cannot stand you. Nutcase. You are a scholar of NOTHING! Psycho.

This is actually the clip with the World Turnians vs the Another Worlders.... enjoy!

r347, when worlds LITERALLY collide!!!!

As The World Turns was consistently FIRST in their time-slot, yet they got the axe a year before OLTL got canned.

However OLTL had higher demos in the 18-34 female demo, so that is why they lasted longer than ATWT

Who was Bridget and Michelle's real mother, Vicky?

Piggybacking on R331's post, I want to say March 5, 1979 was when GH was doing its Lassa Fever storyline. That was when Jeff Webber turned out to be Steve Hardy's son and Monica slept with Rick. Yeah, CBS and ABC brought their A game opposite the long AW. It will be interesting to see what was going on on The Doctors at that time.

I don't watch soap operas (forgiving a brief obsession with catching ONE LIFE TO LIVE and GENERAL HOSPITAL back-to-back right after school for a year), and always thought Kim Zimmer was a little tacky because she just had a small part as a sort of Kathleen Turner runner up in BODY HEAT.

But the clips in this thread have made me a fan. She's a very free yet grounded performer.

I'm sold.

Zimmer as Mary Ann Simpson in BODY HEAT (1981)

R351, that's when Doug was writing GH and he was taking it from #9 to #2; he left to go to GL, giving us Nola, Kelly, Morgan, the trial of Jennifer Richards, Alan vs. Mike, Alan/Hope's love story; Vanessa and Henry, all that glorious stuff.

Then Pat Falken Smith came on board and continued Doug's stories, brought on the Cassadines and GH was number one where it stayed for years.

The relatively unknown Kathleen Turner is utterly divine in this clip (04:40 mark) from "The Doctors"

The woman playing opposite her also has a bit part as Doris, the initial victim in "The Eyes of Laura Mars".

Kim Zimmer is indeed an amazing actress r352... so deep and authentic. I remember seeing her winning Emmy reel for 1990 where Reva talks to the man who raped her as a 12 year old and talks about how he picked her up off the floor... it really brought me to tears. Zimmer's performance was magnificent. You can watch it at the 13 minute mark here:

Constance Ford and Irene Dailey both played killers on "The Edge of Night" who used knives on their victims. Fellow "Another World" co-star Barbara Berjer was on "Edge* around the same time as Constance, but I have found no info on her character, Irene Eagan. Ms. Dailey played a rival of Maeve McGuire's Nicole. Later, McGuire was on "AW" as Cecile's mother and shared scenes with Irene.

Susan Sarandon on A WORLD APART. (She also had a role on SEARCH FOR TOMORROW)

Regardless of how tedious it is, the search for tomorrow is a happy one.

So Susie Sarandon was talking to Governor Gatling?

The best soap opera episode in television history was when Iris found out that she was not really Mac's daughter and that her birth mother was Jewish.

Andrew Kavovit (ex-Paul ATWT) - left acting and is now an entrepreneur

WOW he looks great!

Back in the day, we called him Barbara's Pasty-Faced Boy. That's still what I see.

OMG I remember that Paul r362, he was the one who was crushing on the really hot Emily (I think the actress was called Melanie Smith) and ended up shooting his dad James Stenbeck who was beating Emily to death for seducing his son!!! That was amazing soap opera Mr Marland

We used to call him Casper.

Ironically, in the 1970's, Anthony Herrera played another character on "As the World Turns" who was involved with Susan.

I always had a bit of a crush on Anna Stuart. With the reruns of The Doctors available and a few scenes of her on General Hospital, it was obvious to me that the writers didn't allow her heroines to have much humor. But once she played Vanessa on Guiding Light, she began to show off her sophisticated, funny side which exploded when she started as Donna and continued when she played Mary Smythe, even though the writing for her character was often pretty lame.

Before Anna joined All My Children as Mary Smythe, I envisioned Sharon Gabet playing that part. I always wanted to see Raven go up against Erica and perhaps be reunited with Skyler / Travis. However I was not disappointed by the casting choice they made.

What is ironic about that, r366?

R367 I never thought about it that way but I think you're right!

Marj Dusay (Alexandra, "Guiding Light"/Vanessa, "All My Children", etc.) turns 83 today! I've been watching some old "Capitol" episodes in honor of Julie Adams and stopped every time that Marj popped up on screen. One episode has her looking in disgust at a second hand wedding dress that daughter Brenda had bought and when Brenda mentioned that she wanted a family wedding, Marj qupped, "Whose? The Addams Family", a great toast to Carolyn Jones who originated the role of Myrna. As Alexandra, Marj didn't always have the greatest writing for her character, but made the most of it the best she could. I can't think of another actress who could hop from soap to soap and have leading men like Richard Egan, Jed Allan, John Aniston, Michael Zaslow, Jay Hammer, Ron Raines and James Mitchell to work with as well as great on-screen rivals like Constance Towers, Jess Walton, Judith McConnell, Susan Lucci, Jill Larson, Rebecca Budig , Maureen Garrett and Fiona Hutchinson, and children played by Nicholas Walker, Catherine Hickland, Todd Curtis, Karen Kelly, Lane Davies, Gordon Thomson, Vincent Irizarry, Josh Duhammel, among others. That's not to mention all the greats of the history of soaps she got to share scenes with, like Mary Stuart, Tina Sloan, Tonja Walker, Jennifer Bassey, Ruth Warrick and many, many others.

I watched Capitol from the beginning to the end...it was between ATWT and GL...and it was a hot mess from beginning to end. Carolyn Jones was perfection. Marj Dusay did what she could. But only Jones was Myrna.

Marj had the unenviable task of being a recast a few times - at Santa Barbara, Capitol and GL.

Ugh. Go away Serial Nutjob. You’re so stupid. Hardly a scholar. You’re as dumb as Jussie Smollet. lolololololololololololol Asshole.

R372 "Capitol" may not have had the best writing, but it had an incredible cast, and when it was good, it was fantastic. (Trey/Sloane's wedding, Paula's madness & scheming to keep Mark from marrying Clarissa; Myrna's machinations, a few other storylines); But that last year with James Lipton as head writer. Ugh, It needed a new writer to come in and focus what was going on in Washington during the Reagan era. Even as bad as the writing could be, it was never as dull as "The Bold & the Beautiful". I watched the first week to give it a chance, and after a few days of watching the boring Susan Flannery try to be what Myrna Clegg had been, I gave up. I switched between "Capitol", "AW" and "OLTL" during that period depending on the story, and if I flipped to CBS and either Myrna or Paula were on, I'd stick there, just like I would on "AW" if Donna or Felicia or Ada or Liz were on, or on "OLTL" if Dorian and Tina were together scheming against Vicki. Later, when "OLTL" introduced the Sanders family (very similar to the Cleggs of "Capitol", the Quartermains of "GH" and the Lockridges of "SB"), I tuned in there every day. It was an era we'll never see the likes of again.

R373 She was also a recast on "The Facts of Life" and a sub-Vivian Alamain on "Days of Our Lives". Like Robin Mattson, she was always a second hand Rose, even if one in full bloom. Fortunately, that ended when "AMC" cast her as Vanessa. Unfortunately, all of the roles that Mattson was not a replacement on ("ATWT", "B&B", "DOOL") were short term parts.

[quote]Dorian and Tina were together scheming against Vicki.

Did Heather Tom come to them, or did they go to Genoa City?

Where can we watch Doug Marlands writing on The Doctors now that a couple of the popular youtube channels were taken down?

r377, get your fucking ABC soap talk out of here. This is a P&G soap town thread, only.

Lordy, it's clone Reva.

R376, I thought Linda Gibboney was far superior as Gina Capwell.

Mattson appears to vomit out her lines with such exasperation....!

Tho I loved it when she said "I'd have won if it weren't for Luke Spencer and those meddling kids!"

A familiar voice on the voice over.....

R382, can't place it; who is it? tia

R383 Maeve Kinkead

Go away Serial Asshole moron. You love me. You truly love me.

That scene of Wesley Ann Pfenning with Elizabeth Wilson at Sally’s school was actually Pfenning’s debut episode as Alice. I can only guess that she was a Rauch paramour which is why she was cast. She was hopeless in the role. She didn’t last more than a few months, right?

Meryl's son is very cute too - and looks a lot his cousin Abe Streep.

According to the Another World Home Page, Wesley Ann Pfenning lasted about 6 months in the role of Alice. Her debut was April 12, 1979. Final episode was Sept 26, 1979.

When Pfenning departed the role, Alice was off the canvas for 18 months until Vana Tribbey took over the role in Feb 1981.

The YT episode where Pfenning appears is listed as April 11th but I guess that’s splitting hairs. Pfenning never got a decent story as Alice for those six months, though-it was all hand wringing over Sally.

One of Pfenning's later jobs was subbing for Jaime Lyn Bauer as Lorie on Y&R. I don't remember her doing that but I do remember Lezlie Dalton and Victoria Thompson (ex-Janice Frame) doing so.

Some characters should NEVER have substitute replacements!

Fans hate that!

r367 Anna Stuart was no Gloria Stuart

A SON! A son to carry on his name!

Jackie's finest moment, I'm sure.

Hey guys - I'm the person doing the Daytime Emmy Reels

I went all the way back to 1988 to do Julianne Moore Emmy Reel

Episode 1: Sabrina tells Frannie she slept with Seth (her fiance)

Episode 2: Frannie tells Seth their wedding is off

Enjoy!

r389. It seems r388 misread the info on Wesley Ann Pfenning. The AW Home Page says her first air date was April 2, 1979, NOT April 12.

Although Harding Lemay had been fired by that point, his material was still airing. So, that means he gave his OK to casting Wesley as Alice.

Well, for some bizarre reason I distinctly remember Pfenning’s first scenes as Alice #3 were in that boarding school office whenever it was in April 1979.

Wesley Ann Pfenning as Alice Matthews Frame Gordon #3!

To the queen doing the emmy reels: You’re annoying.

R398 #TooBad

AW was Wesley Ann's first TV credit, apparently. She was in Chicago theater, and after AW she was on a lot of 80s TV, including the original One Day At A Time with DL icon Bonnie Franklin.

I’m sure Bonnie was just LOVELY to her-tee hee.

Seriously Serial Scholar. How can you be so fucking dumb? What a dumbass nutcase. So stupid.

Ironically, two of the actresses who played Alice ended up on "General Hospital" within just a few years of each other: Wesley Pfenning played Cynthia Elliott, the troubled girl who accused Dr. Cy Katz (Jordan Charney, ex Sam Lucas, "AW") of rape (manipulated by Heather into shooting him), and Linda Borgeson played Sylvia Whitby, the socialite blackmailed by Leo Russell (John Callahan).

That Courtney character played by some blonde actress was based on Jacquie C.

I loved Lemay's run and I have an autographed copy of Eight Years in Another World, but I disagree on his assessment of Courtney as an actress.

He did concede that no one was as popular and there are some elements that make people a star, and Courtney had those.

Courtney was a cunt! End of story.

I loved Jacqueline as Pat Kendall, but after her wedding to Tony Lord, they never really did anything else of value. They "flirted" with the idea of having a Pat/David/Dorian triangle but went nowhere with it, and Pat just was allowed to fade out. Of all of Vicki's female friends, Pat seemed the most loyal. The fact that they never even brought her back for a visit or even mentioned her again is just too bizarre.

You'd think they would have had more use for a branch of Viki's family.

I thought Courtney and Bob Woods had chemistry, but I don't think he was too happy with the pairing.

The thing I most remember about her stint on OLTL was when she put on the black wig and ran around Llanview as Pat's evil twin.

R409 A plot later stolen by "All My Children" with Natalie and Janet, although the Pat/Maggie story was very unpopular.

[quote]The fact that they never even brought her back for a visit or even mentioned her again is just too bizarre.

There was bad blood behind the scenes, with the cast thinking exec producer/Courtney paramour Joe Stuart let Pat dominate the show. Cast and crew disliked Stuart and that also tainted Jackie.

"OLTL" during this time had too many leading female performers (Ellen Holly, Robin Strasser after 1979, Judith Light, Brynn Thayer, in addition to Courtney & Slezak, possibly Julie Montgomery & Dorian LoPinto, both as Samantha), plus a great ensemble of female supporting & character players. I wonder how Erika & Jacqueline got along; Their characters were similar in many ways. Christine Jones, subbing as Vicki, was also excellent, and it is a total contrast to her role as Janice on "AW". Pat was involved with both Clint and Bo at different times as well which was bizarre, considering that Clint ended up with Vicki, Pat's best friend, after being introduced as being somewhat antagonistic towards Vicki in the beginning. In fact, Pat went from Clint to Bo during the same storyline (discovering that Nicole Bonnard was really Olympia Buchannan) very quickly if my memory is correct, that ending with the discovery that Tony Lord was still alive.

Asa, Clint, Bo and to a lesser extent, Rafe, got around in those days. Viki, Mimi, Pat, Delilah, Becky Lee, Samantha, Dorian ... am I missing anyone?

Didn't Asa, Clint, Bo, and Viki live in those Magnificent Midpennsylvanian Towns?

What I will never understand about Courtney is that we all know that she was down to fuck, but why she didn't fuck Rauch or Lemay is a mystery. I've seen the photos of Rauch. He was a good looking man and according to many women of that era he was charming and had all those things that make your panties drop. Lemay wasn't attractive, but it was the 70s and she could have fucked worse.

All Jacquie had to do was blow Rauch a few times or ride his cock and she would have run that set. She sure as sugar figured out how to do that on OLTL. Makes no sense.

I’m STILL laughing at dumbass Serial Scholar! What a dumb fucking asshole! You are so fucking DUMB Serial Asshole mental case. Glenn Close as Best Actress. lololololololol you DUMB ass! What a retard!

Oh geez, I didn't even notice this wasn't the OLTL thread. Oops.

Jacqueline Courtney and George Reinholt already had top billing on the show by the time that Paul Rauch became EP in 1971. As the top rated star, there's no reason for her to expect to have to suck the bosses' dick to stay on the show (even in the 1970s). Similarly, she had just married in 1970, so likely would have been reluctant to break those vows.

By the time she got to OLTL in late 1975, the marriage was over, or on the rocks. Meanwhile, when Joseph Stuart arrived as EP in 1977, there was a mutual attract between him and Jacqueline Courtney. He wasn't just looking to get his dick sucked (like Rauch), he was looking for a steady girlfriend, which he got in her (although they kept their relationship quiet for a long time).

By all accounts, she was genuinely in love with Stuart, since she kept a photo of him by her bedside. Their affair was exposed when Jacquie did a photo shoot at her apartment and did some shots in the bedroom, where the bedside photo was clearly visible.

No, r417, you didn't.

OLTL thread is here, folks, if you would like to explore more indepth examinations of Llanview.

Now get the fuck outta my kitchen!

Great scenes from Dinah's homecoming where Vanessa immediately senses something is amiss... love seeing all the characters reacting to the now grown up Dinah.

Love how Ross is so overjoyed to see Dinah and Blake is thrilled about that LOL

Dinah's return was one of the better things about later GL.

It was a bit of a retcon, since Dinah didn't seem to have any animosity with Vanessa and Ross before, but it was where the story SHOULD have originally gone, so I guess that's why most of us accepted it.

I was expecting a Dinah Gyllenhaal-Skarsgaard update.

What the Hell ever happen to Stephen Yates?

The magnificent Midwestern town I wish I had got the chance to visit, was Henderson, and Search For Tomorrow. Sadly, it ended when I was three. I've seen some of the original episodes from the 1950s and 60s and I loved it. It seemed unique, in that Stu and Joanne were a pair of opposite gender friends who remained just friends throughout the show. Also, Mary Stuart was the original daytime diva.

I started watching SFT during the Liza/Travis years, but could only watch regularly in the summers...and it was as if it was a different show every summer. It was never as homey as ATWT or GL, but Joe and Stu were like the grandparents I never had.

Search had a real revival around 73/74 when it soared in the ratings, following Y&R which was in its 1st year. Y&R was not carried by many stations in its desired East Coast time of 12 noon. The story focused on Jo's daughter Patt, involved in a dangerous pregnancy with Marie Cheatham coming on as her nurse Stephanie who had a previous affair with Jo's husband Tony. Scott Kathy, Eunice and Doug were all involved. Mary Stuart, according to headwriter Ann Marcus, did not like that her tv daughter was dominating the story and didn't want to be a grandmother (even t hough her daughter and son in law were raising the son in law's son by a another woman).

Elderqueens, did Edge of Night's move to the 2:30 timeslot really do as much damage as fabled? What about the move back to the 4 p.m. slot during the ABC years?

R429 wasn't the main issue with the move, that men made up a large part of Edge's audience, and by moving it they couldn't watch? And, I know from reading that it didn't work when ABC moved it back to the 4:00 slot, because many ABC affiliates preempted it for syndicated games hows.

Here is later episode from SFT from a storyline that brought SFT some of its highest ratings in years, Jo's kidnapping by future Lionel Luthor, John Glover. Mrs. Madrigal herself, Olympia Dukakis, is also in this episode.

In the early 70s, I got home from school a few minutes before 3 p.m., just in time to watch AW at 3 p.m. on NBC and Edge at 3:30 p.m. on CBS. I loved both of them. Both were at the top of the ratings during that time. The Whitney family saga (reminiscent of the Kennedy clan) on Edge was must see TV! Especially the way Keith Whitney was a serial killer and Geraldine was helping cover it up.

Then in fall 1972, CBS foolishly moved Edge to 2:30 p.m. and I could no longer watch it except during the summer and Christmas holidays. So, it lost a lot of after school viewers.

Likewise, Edge had a lot male viewers who got home by 3:30 p.m. (especially men who worked day shift at factories and got off at 3 p.m.) and enjoyed the crime story aspects of the show. That helped account for the higher ratings it got in the 3:30 timeslot. Moving it to 2:30 eliminated many of those male viewers .

R432 Which is why I don't understand why American networks have never done like the UK and other countries and had soaps on in the early evening instead of the middle of the day. So that school students are home, and most people who work are at home.

I started watching Edge as a kid when the great "Who Killed Stephanie Martin" murder mystery kicked in, the storyline that introduced Nicole Travis. That was followed by the Keith Whitney story. Edge was on fire back then.

OMG LOVE THIS THEME

R435 Me too. I always thought of all the P&G shows, they could reboot EON with the same theme (slightly updated) and the same essential premise.

This play festival apparently features a play written by Alexandra Neal, who played Rusty Shayne's derpy wife/girlfriend Rose on GL for a while.

Whoops, forgot to attach the link.

R434 I've always been curious about that storyline because Irene Dailey and Alice Hirson played Nicole's rivals. There is little about it on line, and soap history books only summarize it. The Keith Whitney story though has a bit more detail, and had there been daytime Emmy's at the time, Lois Kibbee would most likely have won because her material sounds very juicy, especially that final scene where she confronts her son. Later, Lois and Anthony Call (ex-Colin, "EON") were reunited on "OLTL", along with Lois & Sharon Gabet and a few other minor "EON" actors (Alan Coates, Don Fischer). It really is too bad that hardly any of these episodes exist, and none of them are anywhere on line. (Other than a few scattered black and white kinescope of "EON", the oldest episode is those concerning Serena/Josie a few years later.)

R439 You missed a great period in EON history. Alice Hirson was one of daytime's all-time psycho villains. Everyone in Monticello had a reason to kill Stephanie Martin. What I liked about those days was that every potential suspect in her murder got a full day on the witness stand. This was the trial that brought Adam Drake and Nicole Travis together. Just a great storyline.

It was shortly after this (or maybe post-Keith Whitney),that we were introduced to EON's sexiest male, Dr. Jim Fields, played by the gorgeous Alan Feinstein. Feinstein was the gay football player in the TV-movie "Alexander: The Other Side Of Dawn".

R440 Thanks for the description of the story. The "EON" history page only summarizes a bit of it. I'm curious about the character of Pamela Stewart, played by Irene Dailey, who ultimately turned out to be Stephanie's killer. It was ironic that her & Constance Ford as brief "Edge of Night" villains both stabbed their victims before ending up as core players on "Another World". If you ever get a chance, search out "The Grissom Gang" (directed by Robert Aldrich) where Irene, fresh from "EON", plays a very Ma Barker like character.

Alice Hirson immediately went onto play Marsha Davis (Rachel Davis's stepmother) on "Somerset", then was on "OLTL" for about four years before recurring on "Dallas" as Miss Ellie's friend, Maevis Stone. The only other daytime part she had afterwards was Mrs. Van Gelder on a few episodes of "General Hospital" in 1982, part of the oil scam storyline. Of course, she went onto success as a movie character actress and featured player on "Ellen" as her mother.

I'm watching ATWT 1998 on Youtube, and wow, that was one hell of a year! Daniel Markel's performance as David Stenbeck was a tour-de-force; both Maura West as Carly and Annie Parisse as Julia were terrific in their epic fight for Jack (and $50 million); and Kelley Menighan-Hensley (though not my favorite Emily) seemed to delight in making her character as evil as possible in her pursuit of the married Tom. And I can't forget to annoy my least favorite troll: Scott DeFreitas was great as a brother who knew exactly what was happening, but was unable (because of AA rules) to help his sister hold her marriage together.

So much fun! Give a whirl if it's been awhile-- you won't regret it.

I did love Danny Markel and Lauren Martin and Scott DeFrietas and especially Maura West.

And 1998 was an enormous improvement over 1996.

But James back from the dead and with another insta-child and Lesli Kay? Vomit.

Danny Markel was so good as Sam Fowler. I wish they had never let him go. I never warmed up to David Allen. How could one actor change so much from one show to another. Must have been the writing. It never got better after Lisa's lawsuit against Johnny Boy.

Huh, I thought Markel was really weak as both David Stenbeck and Sam Fowler. Cute, though.

The first David Allen was pretty awful. And I may have been dazzled by Danny's beautiful eyelashes and swoopy hair. Or it may have had something to do with how active and friendly he was with WT fandom online. But I thought he was perfect as David.

I never cared much for Markel. He always looked so mopey and unhappy.

"But James back from the dead and with another insta-child and Lesli Kay? Vomit."

I disagreed (and still do) with bringing James back from the dead, but I did like how they mellowed him out (for a while) and allowed Anthony Herrera to do more subtle work. Herrera could be so entertaining and funny when he wasn't forced by the writing to be totally OTT.

Yeah, I'm not a big Molly fan either, and don't forget Adult Katie was introduced in '98, too! (Ugh...) Another weak spot was Eddie. I don't like to speak ill of the dead, but Eddie was just SO unattractive in every way-- a surly, sulking manchild lacking anything that might make the viewer sympathize. And don't even get me started on his ridiculous sideburns.

Eddie was also redundant in that Tom and Margo already had a surrogate son in Jerry/Jeremy.

R444 , it's amazing how the show went from being so good during the Lisa/John malpractice story to anything at all after that story concluded. I know that's when Stern and Black took over as writers and gave us those horrid characters Sarah Kasnoff, Zoe, T. Jones and that awful model who played Paul Ryan.

I still love to watch that episode where John Dixon gets his revenge on Lisa. Eileen Fulton was a terrible actress for most of her career, but somehow she managed to pull her shit together during that whole storyline.

I only started watched ATWT in 1988, but I always enjoyed Lisa. Marland made it possible to like everyone in town. Everyone seemed important. Some were more important, obviously, but the gossip-as-recap scenes, many of which took place at the Mona Lisa, were absolutely excellent, and absolutely of that specific show at that exact time. There has never been anything to replace it.

Lisa v. John was the only good story that came after Marland.

The rest was pure fecal matter, especially the handling of Luke and his two boyfriends. They could have made that the best thing on television, but all they did was show what pussies P&G and CBS were.

And we needn't rehash the destruction of Oakdale I called "As the World Turns around Carly Tenney."

I always wanted to watch EON, because my favorite soap stories were always the murders and crime stuff. It would have been right up my alley. Problem was, while ABC aired it at 4pm, my local affiliate moved it to mornings (10 or 11am) the next day. So I'd get home from school at 2:30, but it never did me any good.

r452 that's why they invented VCRs

My ABC station aired Edge at 4 p.m. until about 1981, then moved it to 10:30 a.m. Luckily, that was right about the same time that my family got a VCR. So, I taped it and still caught up.

Not just Carly, Katie and especially Janet ruined ATWT. Their ONLY buzz was Nuke and they blew it. To end the show with Luke and Reid NEVER having sex was just an insult.

I liked some of the early bits of the Hogan Sheffer era, but after a while, it became clear that it wasn't "new fresh story" but wholesale destruction of big chunks of why people watched.

Eileen Fulton was wonderful... soap audiences tend to forget that she was Susan Lucci before Susan Lucci. She was the face of daytime in the 60s.

Weird to see Tina Sloan play someone so obviously opposite of Lillian Raines here. I must not have watched AW during this era....? Just don't remember her.

Just saw a scene from '98 where Lisa was reaming Emily a new one and Fulton was fabulous. You can't play what they don't write.

R456 Yes, my mother, who had largely moved on to the ABC soaps by the time I was born, used to go on and on about how big Lisa was when she was a teenager. Also, Lisa was so popular, that she is the only daytime character they have ever tried to spin off onto their own primetime show, "Our Private World."

It seems that PG ran their shows like old Hollywood. If an actors, writer, producer was finished on one show, they would just move them to another show. One day when I have some free time, I'm going to see if any actor did ALL of the PG soaps.

You could also tell how popular Lisa was by the number of girls named "Lisa" born between 1960 and 1970.

[quote]To end the show with Luke and Reid NEVER having sex was just an insult.

They never had sex? (I had to stop watching. I just couldn't.)

[quote] Eddie was also redundant in that Tom and Margo already had a surrogate son in Jerry/Jeremy.

The actor who played the character quit the show, and they didn't want to recast

That sort of misses the point, r463.

The actor who played Eddie is now dead.

Remember when Fulton stunk up the bathroom and plugged up the terlet? lolololol

Yes, Mary, we know.

Remember when Marston punched an ATM machine?

The true ORD and a number of other AW actors* recently gathered to honor the life of Carmen Duncan.

Anna Banana looks fabulous - just a touch of white/gray hair!

*Nope, no Lady Eyes-a-Buggin, sad to say.

Even at 70 and with that beard, I would bounce up and down on Stephen Schnetzer's lap.

He looks great.

Schnetzer looks hot as hell with that beard!

He was always a stud. Saw him as Marcello Salta on OLTL. Saw him on the streets of NY years ago. Hot, hot.

They all look pretty damn good (I mean, no surprise with the Annas, given their bone structure).

Lady Eyes-A-Buggin lives in California, not NYC/Connecticut like the bulk of attendees, so it's not surprising she wasn't there.

[quote]Lady Eyes-A-Buggin lives in California

Last I heard, she still lives in Redding, CT.

R457 From what I've seen of Tina as Dr. Olivia Delaney, she was a basically decent person, but she wasn't a fragile flower like Lillian. I'd love to see her work on "Somerset" and "Search For Tomorrow" where her characters weren't that nice. Even though she played Patti on "SFT", from what I've read, they made her a bit of a shrew before writing her off until Jacqueline Schultz took over the role in 1985. Considering that so many different actors played Patti (Lisa Loring, Brooke Bundy, Nancy Pinkerton, Melinda (Plank) Cordell, Leigh Lassen, Lanna Saunders) and they all seem quite different, it's strange to tie together all of these familiar faces from their other soap roles. (Diana Taylor! Marie Horton! Dorian Lord! Natalie Dearborn! Lillain Raines!)

[quote]she was a basically decent person, but she wasn't a fragile flower like Lillian.

"Fragile flower," my ass.

Linda Dano looks like a freak! Stop the plastic surgery. You’re pushing 80 hun. Aging happens.

SS keeps aging like a fine, fine wine.

That photo of Stephen S just made me pregnant.

I remember watching Guiding Light during summer vacation in the early-mid 80s. Then from 1990 I recorded it on a VCR and watched it when I got home. It was easy to get really caught up in the ridiculous plot lines and characters. I wish there was a complete archive somewhere from the mid 70s (so I could get the plot lines from before I started watching) to early 00s so I could go back and watch parts of it. The only thing I've found is rando episodes on Youtube but not an archive where you can watch in sequence and not miss episodes.

Then again, if you watched 5 hours a day every weekday it would take about 7-8 years to watch that entire timeframe of almost 40 years. There are probably much better uses of time to say the least!!!

This has been

GUIDING LIGHT!

R480 there is a whole library of Guiding Light episodes and playlists set up that have all episodes in chronological order

That Magnificent Midwestern Luke Perry.

if there was one run I could get in its entirety it'd be ATWT from late 1985 when Doug took over (heck, even rewind it back a few months to Kim and Bob's wedding) and then take it up until 1993 when Doug passed away, but those first two to three years were gold, perfection.

It was tough losing a few key cast members, most notably Gregg Marx's Tom, but ATWT was wonderful during this time.

R483 *sobs*

He was indeed Midwestern.

Ohio Sen. Sherrod Brown Tweeted about him yesterday - apparently Sherrod's father, a doctor, delivered Luke (!)

[quote] if there was one run I could get in its entirety it'd be ATWT from late 1985 when Doug took over (heck, even rewind it back a few months to Kim and Bob's wedding) and then take it up until 1993 when Doug passed away, but those first two to three years were gold, perfection. It was tough losing a few key cast members, most notably Gregg Marx's Tom, but ATWT was wonderful during this time.

I would agree, though it REALLY took a while to regain equilibrium when both Martha and Julianne left, as their replacements were - well, they were perfectly fine, but the stories took a hit, for sure. There was also the boring Crawford mystery and a lot of weird people who came out of nowhere for a while. And Margo was on and off during that time frame.

God, that Carolyn Crawford murder mystery was ENDLESS. It was the worst Marland/ATWT storyline.

R486 R487, I agree about Crawford. I really liked both Heather and Mary Ellen, but yes, Martha and Julianne were tough acts to follow.

It's hard to pinpoint exactly where ATWT went southish under Marland: Gregg Marx leaving? Or Carolyn Crawford's death?

What I loved most about 1986 was watching all the seeds Doug would plant that wouldn't play out till later. The man had a plan.

Compare that to Y&R now. Mal Young's new characters are already on their way out and Josh G. will bring in his own.

Change, change, change; bang moments and no plan.

Watching these old shows WOULD take up a lot of time as a previous poster noted, but I have little interest in watching the stuff that's going on now.

Leslie Denniston, who played Carolyn Crawford, had earlier played a ballet dancer named Karen on "ATWT" who was briefly involved with Bob Hughes. She married Don Hastings in real life and after her longer stint as Maeve on "GL" was convinced to come back for the Crawford story. Soap Opera Digest critics had panned her first story, and the second story got panned, too. I've read some fan reports of her brief stint subbing for Christine Tudor as Gwyneth Alden who said she was pretty good. Considering that her other characters were not villains or bitches, I never got her being asked to do Gwyneth as she had a kindly demeanor. She reminded me of Deborah Adair who was allowed to tone down Jill Foster to make her nicer, if still social climbing, and when on "GL", I got confused by her resemblance to Maeve Kinkhead when their backs were to the camera. Same with Michelle Forbes as Sonni.

Matt Bomer was so well cast as Leslie's and Larkin Malloy's son; he LOOKED like he'd be there kid.

Alas, Maeve was dead and the writers never brought Kyle back; big mistake; Ben, Kyle, and Maeve's mama, Julia Stoddard (the fab Meg Mundy) could have been the foundation for a whole new family in Springfield.

It would have been close for Mundy to have still worked in 2002 when Bomer was cast as Ben. She didn't die until 2016, but she was 101 (!)

She would have been 87 in 2002 but maybe she could have made a few appearances; she worked with Dennison a few times and then came back after Maeve died and almost took Ben back with her to NY.

I never understand why soaps don't mine their own histories and bring families and key characters back.

*their* kid

[quote] on "GL", I got confused by her resemblance to Maeve Kinkhead when their backs were to the camera.

Not to mention the name confusion.

Leslie was boring as fuck in both her roles. I assume she was hired because her husband played Dr. Bob on ATWT.

Maeve wasn't like Reva but I think that was the point. She was everything Reva wasn't; Reva was earthy and open and ballsy and Maeve was reserved and came from money.

As for Carolyn, she was brought on to die.

Maeve Stoddard was about as exciting as a cat fart. The show literally came to a stop every time she was on screen.

If there had been some other actress in that role, one who was beautiful even in her stillness, sort of a "porcelain doll" type that story would have made more sense. Instead you had Kyle throwing Reva over for some flat, frowsy penny-a-hundred frau.

R490 Thanks for bringing up Meg Mundy. She did go on to "All My Children" as a distant relative of Travis & Jackson's, a European countess, Eugenia Andrassy, Gillian's grandmother. I've always wondered as I wasn't watching much if she ever shared scenes with Ruth Warrick. Phoebe vs. Mona Aldrich, the two mega bitch matriarch's of the 1970's!

Mark Arnold (Gavin - Edge of Night) now lives in London, England and has used being an American to his advantage getting cast in small parts but in big movies like Florence Foster Jenkins and Blade Runner 2019.

But he also does workshops for aspiring screenwriters

there was something so sad about EDGE's finale. They're all sad of course. but it was one of the first real long running ones to go; I guess Love of Life would have been first, but I didn't really know that show.

does anyone know whatever happened to little Adam Drake?

I'm assuming Myles took custody after Nicole died; but I seem to recall something about him going off to live with April and Draper (those names!) in England.

I know they're not real, but when your own family is dysfunctional these soap clans can save your sanity.

Meg Mundy should have won a supporting actress oscar for Ordinary People.

So should Liz Hubbard, r498.

Posted at another thread.

Lots happening here PLUS a tribute to Bert Bauer's Good Leg at the end.....

The P&G die-out was interesting. A few shows gone relatively close to one another, followed by a long gap, then another long gap and two gone particularly close to one another. Texas (Dec. 1982) -- EON (Dec. 1984) -- SFT (Dec. 1986) -- AW (June 1999) -- GL (Sept. 2009) -- ATWT (Sept. 2010). They were so powerful, they had SEVEN shows from 1958-61.

My bad, R474. She had relocated at one point (according to her studio site), but did move back to CT.

I need Maeve Kinkead's book of poetry.

Well, if Jamey Giddens can become head writer of a nighttime soap, I guess Muscle Mary Michael Fairman can become....a hit songmaker?

These soap queens are embarassing. Fairman, fat Jamey, queen Kroll........the list is endless.

So many writers I could send this to.....

ABC should have made The Colbys a daytime soap.

r507 or they could have just incorporated Dynasty characters into one of their existing daytime soaps, like AMC or OLTL.

Rachel cut Jamie out of her life? GASP!

R509, I had no idea Christopher Knight ever did Daytime. Hmm.

Robert Reed was offered Alan Spaulding on GL and told them, via his agent, “I’m an ACTOR, dammit! Go fuck yourself!”

For over TWENTY YEARS Another World has been

Another World

Starring

Victoria Wyndham

As

Rachel David Cory

over TWENTY YEARS, she was top billed on the show

"Robert Reed was offered Alan Spaulding on GL and told them, via his agent, 'I’m an ACTOR, dammit! Go fuck yourself!'"

Too bad, because he would have been good in the role. No, not as good as Bernau, but...

R513 forgets that Robert Reed was on Search for Tomorrow in the mid 80s

R512, Wyndham was awful as Rachel. What made Another World was the original triangle of Jacqui Courtney/George Reinholt/ Robin Strasser. Strasser electrified as Rachel, and made that triangle the talk of daytime... plus her chemistry with Constance Ford as mama Ada was fantastic. Wyndham turned the fiery, deceptive Rachel into a drip.

[quote]Rachel David Cory

Oh, Sear.

r515 Strasser was Lucci before Lucci.

Rachel was a one note harpy until Lady Eyes a Buggin made her a flesh and blood woman.

NO Emmys for you Rachel! Or you Ada! Cunts!

Jill Farren Phelps to Ellen Parker: We’re killing you off but Trust Me, it’s the only time that you will win an Emmy.

THE Rachel Cory.

R431, I think Chris Goutman directed some of that stuff; which I found odd - he had to have known Search got its highest ratings when Jo was in danger yet he failed to give Lisa a happy ending in ATWT's finale or swallow his pride and let Martha come back.

There are very simple, easy reasons why people watch soaps -- family. secrets. love. It's just that simple and so many of them don't get it.

Lisa kept plugging up the toilet. WTF did that woman eat?

I know that Audra Lindley as Liz Matthews was the force of nature that the character was written to be, and after a while, Irene Dailey's version of Liz became the comical snoop. But Dailey had some truly powerful moments. One of the most haunting was her being visited late by Jim to tell her about John's death. It was truly evident that living alone made Liz very lonely, so any late night visit for her was a sign she was needed, but her breakdown upon learning of John's death was truly powerful. Later on, she carried the same essence of horror with the deaths of Julia and Sally, saying so much with so few words. She grasped onto every member of her family with devoted fury, even the in-laws, which for the most part out of Sharlene and a few others, she loved as if they were blood relatives. When she rushed to see Ada about Amanda being accused of selling Cory secrets, she acted like the Cory's were her family, which you could see as true in her mind, because she wanted them to be so she would have more love to spread.

There was so much potential for Liz as a recurring figure that the last five years of the show seemed vacant without her. Irene continued to work on the stage. Her performance as the nurse in "The Father" with Frank Langella on Broadway is legendary.

Thanks, R521. That short period of time where LeMay was back on the show and reorienting the Corys and Frames was the last time I felt really good about the show.

And R524 -- you're absolutely right about Irene Dailey.

[quote] That short period of time where LeMay was back on the show and reorienting the Corys and Frames was the last time I felt really good about the show.

Same.

Eleni Spaulding leaves Springfield and flies all the way to Malaysia to meet-up with film actress Bai Ling

[quote]That short period of time where LeMay was back on the show and reorienting the Corys and Frames was the last time I felt really good about the show.

Last time I felt good about the show was mid-to-late 1992, when LeMay's Bible was running out and Donna Swajeski was on her way out.

Soon after, new writers took the show in new directions, including introducing the Ian Rains character and concocting the story of Mac being a mercenary. I HATED that story and stopped watching the show regularly because of that.

Mac was dead. The audience had loved Mac and the show had always portrayed him as hero. The idea they would besmirch Mac's memory and claim that he'd been a mercenary and done bad things fifty years earlier was incredibly distasteful.

Leave the dead alone!Let us keep our fond memories intact! That's how I felt! Don't retcon Mac's story just for a poorly conceived storyline. That's why I had to stop watching. I loved Mac so much, I couldn't be a part of destroying his character, after he was already dead and buried.

To put this in perspective, imagine if Days suddenly did a storyline claiming Tom Horton had been running heroin out of the hospital for years.

[quote]That short period of time where LeMay was back on the show and reorienting the Corys and Frames was the last time I felt really good about the show.

This is when I started watching not just Another World, but soap operas, period. I couldn't imagine that this was something people bitched about being so low quality. I'd seen Tina Lord on OLTL and laughed at my friend who watched it faithfully. This Bay City program was GOOD.

[quote]Last time I felt good about the show was mid-to-late 1992, when LeMay's Bible was running out and Donna Swajeski was on her way out.

That's about when I lost interest. I had bought a second VCR, as I started watching ATWT in 1989.

And [R524] -- you're absolutely right about Irene Dailey.

Oh, how I loved Aunt Liz. Just hearing Matthew say her name sent a frisson of "oh, this is going to be good" down my spine.

The last time I loved AW is when Sharly undid her barrettes and SHOOK THAT BITCH OUT!

I still think Sandy let ruch guys in Vegas blow him. And Ilsa took home movies of it. And his loads were of Thom Bierdz quantity.

Oops, I mean RICH, of course. As in Christopher.

R530, that was good. Who was HW then?

Audra Lindley was awesome as Liz . Her hold over her son made great TV.

I loved the Sven, Helga and Regina storyline on AW. I don’t think any of that storyline is on YT, is it?

Most of these seen, but the AW 20th and 25th anniversary celebrations on DM, and in great quality.

Those 20th anniversary deals SUCKED. Where are the Matthews family and Strasser's Rachel? That's what got this show on the map.

R537, of all the P&G soaps, AW lost its history first and it shouldn't have b/c of the big three P&G shows -- ATWT, GL and AW -- it was the youngest.

I've said this before but imagine if Doug Marland had gone back to AW circa 1993 (had he lived).

The show would have risen up to a top 4 soap.

One thing I know he wouldn’t have done would be to have Amanda go from being a little girl to an 18 year old debutante within months. He would have SORAS’d her to a 14 or 15 year old and made her the Lily of AW.

R538 AW should have been a cautionary tale, because essentially in the last 20 years of its life - from when Lemay left in 1979 - it had a new writer/EP every six months to a year.

It got really bad after a while.....who invests in a story like that when everything will change?

By the time they tried to stabilize at the end the damage had already been done. Plus JFP was trying to turn yet another show into some noir fuckery, like she always did.

Yet GL and ATWT didn't learn from AW's mistakes but instead repeated them.

Did Bay City ever end up with a fucking skyline like AMC’s Pine Valley and GL’s Springfield did?

Oakdale had a skyline, too. Marland would often use it as an establishing slide to open the last or the the penultimate act. I called it MOO, for Morning Over Oakdale.

I don't recall one in Bay City.

"Oakdale had a skyline, too."

It was a believable size, though. I mean, it looked like a mid-sized city, not Manhattan.

R540 Look at JPF’s ratings while she was at AW. Sky high demos. Beating GL in households. It all fell apart after JFP left AW.

Bay City had the Love Tower with TOPS restaurant on the top floor. No idea how tall the Love Tower was, but since they called it a tower, it implies it was at least five or six stories, if not more.

I put the TOP in TOPS!

Hard to wrap my head around the idea that Jody Travis paid a $500,000 bribe to get her daughter in USC.

R529 I always thought that there was an underplayed relationship between Matthew and Aunt Liz, because he was named after the family, and also, Aunt Liz was the one from whom he could learn the hidden secrets with Rachel afraid to bring up the past, Mac too classy to think it was worth bringing up, and Grandma Ada only willing to talk if Matthew broached the subject. Of course, he respected his grandmother far too much to want to risk offending her or have to reveal details about Rachel that might be uncomfortable, but until he was older, there was always a bit of a rift between Rachel and Matthew because of the details surrounding his conception. As an adult, he would be much more mature to understand Rachel's side, and even though she might have been shocked by it at first, Rachel didn't meddle with him and Donna the way that she did with Jaime and the various women.

For the show's 30th Anniversary, they had a very hip looking Liz in an outrageous period flowery dress shocked to see Matthew and Donna kissing, and when Liz tried to question Rachel over it, Rachel only lightly dismissed her nosiness, obviously amused by the fact that Liz was "shocked" by it. One fan of the show mentioned how Liz stormed into that episode as if she had never left, and it was a disappointment that it was her last appearance on screen. They even tied Liz into Rachel and Carl's romance by having her comment on Rachel replacing Mac with a criminal, and Rachel continued to simply be amused rather than tell her off, which a decade before, she would have done. It was as if Rachel was basically telling her that she was too relaxed with her life to even be annoyed by her, and in a discreet way, let the audience know that she found it funny.

R548 Also in that episode, Iris introduced Liz to make a quick speech, and Liz basically tried without success to take over. Carmen Duncan and Irene Dailey never really shared many scenes, even though when Beverlee McKinsey played Iris, Liz and Iris were said to be friends, with Iris having tried to match Liz with her father as more appropriate than Rachel. There is a scene on line from 1976 with Liz and Olive Gordon (working as John's secretary) where Liz is very formidable and saunters around Olive as if she's searching for a soul (which Olive was sorely lacking), and acting very "Phoebe Tyler"-ish. It wasn't until after Alice & Pat were written off in 1982 where Liz began to become more of a comic relief, yet on occasion show what she was made of when someone went up against the Cory's or the few remaining members of the Matthews family.

Cross-eyed Rachel evicts Alice! "Where is THE SON that YOU'VE ever given him?" I love how Aunt Liz cringes in reaction to this and then has to grab Alice from lunging at her, like Grace Poole with Rochester's mad wife in Jane Eyre... HAHAHAHA!

I still want a T-shirt with Lady Eyes A Buggin and that phrase!

Wasn't it Liz who spilled the beans to Matthew about Mitch being his father, R548?

R552 I don't remember the details, but I do remember Liz working at the Cory Mansion, and complaining about Mitch for some reason, all of a sudden referring to Rachel's affair with Mitch in front of Matthew as a way of protecting Mac from Janice whom he was married to at the time. I believe that it was Liz who pointed out to Rachel back in the day that there were far too many coincidences in the book "Harry Must Die!" which made Rachel realize that Janice and Mitch were in cahoots to poison Mac. If I recall in the 1988 scenes with Matthew, Liz tried to cover but it was too late. For some reason, Rachel was not angry with Liz about what happened and was relieved that it just came out.

LOL at asshole dumbass Serial Scholar being ripped a new one by a former daytime writer. Said writer had to educate the stupid scholar and show him how dumb he is.

I don't remember the details of the reveal, but when Bll Grey Espy returned to the show in 1986, Mitch's relationship with a 12 year old(ish) Matthew (played by Daniel Dale) was a major part of Mitch's initial storyline.

By the time Matt Crane started playing the role in 1988, Matthew was completely comfortable with Mitch being his father.

As I recall, in fall 1986, young Matthew ran away to New York City for some reason (perhaps because he found out that Mitch was his father), and it was Mitch who found him. Show even went on location to shoot the scenes of Mitch finding Matthew.

I seem to recall Liz somehow being involving with Matthew learning the truth. Perhaps the scenario that r553 described. That situation would be very Liz.

[quote] I seem to recall Liz somehow being involving with Matthew learning the truth

That is not what happened - the truth came out when Matthew Crane took over the part. Harding LeMay came back and re-introduced the Frame Family Farm, and Jason Frame was the one who told Matthew the truth, to get back at Rachel.

That’s what I thought, R556. Thanks.

I always forget about Jason Frame - that Chris Robertson AND Susan Alexander were both there for a fairly long chunk of time (wasn't it almost 2 years?)

R558, that's DENISE Alexander!

Harding LeMay did a good job bringing back the Frame Family in the late 80s

Sharlene Frame, Jamie Frame, Jason Frame, Frankie Frame, and Evan Frame were all on the show at the same time.

LOL R559, You're right. I mixed up her real name and her DAYS character's name for a second.

R560

Don't forget Sharly!

Harding Lemay is not responsbile for bringing Jason Frame to town.

Another World Home Page says Jason first appeared on Dec. 28, 1987.

Headwriter at that point was Margaret DePriest. Lemay didn't take over until Sept 1988,

As I recall, they cast Chris Robinson in the role as Jason hoping to recapture the screen magic he and Denise Alexander had while on GH. At that point, she'd been in the Mary McKinnon role for about a year and a half and they hadn't found a good screen partner for her yet.

[quote]Lemay didn't take over until Sept 1988

I was under the impression he was writing during the strike in the summer of '88.

[quote]I was under the impression he was writing during the strike in the summer of '88.

It's well established that Donna Swajecki was the scab HW during the writers strike of 1988.

She did so well as HW, that's part of why P&G was willing to let her take over again after Lemay quit.

Wikipedia even acknowledges that Donna Swajeski was the scab HW during the 1988 writers strike. Look under the HW History listings where it says she was the "De facto head writer of Another World during Writers Guild of America strike, April 1988 - September 1988."

She was NBC East Coast head of Daytime Programming in 1988 when the striker occurred. During strikes, everyone pitches in, so she volunteered to write for the show and proved she was good at it.

When did Lemay provide the bible from which Swajeski wrote?

Did AW ever seriously pursue Jason Frame and Mary McKinnon? I always thought she was more in the Love family's orbit.

R568 They both were. Apparently, Jason had an affair with Reginald's wife, which lead to Reginald killing her and getting away with it. He happened to fall in love with the married Mary McKinnon and when she was in an accident, he used her amnesia to spirit her off as Marissa LaSalle and make her think they were married. It all came out when Marissa/Mary went to the McKinnon's to confront Vince over something in regard to Reginald (Cheryl & Scott perhaps?), and everyone was in shock over her resemblance to the supposed late mother, realizing indeed she was not dead as rumored.

Also, when Jason came to Bay City, his first scene was indeed with Mary, stunned to see her alive. Apparently, they had known each other, and she thought he was dead. It was an oddly written story that petered out quickly. Jason was only on air for 14 months before getting bumped off. With what later happened on "GH" with Rick Webber attempting to drug Laura, it would make more sense had something like this occurred with Jason. Rick, in spite of his infidelities, was noble, while Jason was an outright scumbag.

The retroactive transformation of Rick Webber was one of my least favorite GH storylines. Talk about unnecessary drama.

I assumed when AW hired both Chris Robinson and Denise Alexander that the end game was capitalize on their GH fame and reunite them on screen. But it never happened - they never wrote Jason as anything other than a monster, which made a romance with Mary impossible. Instead, they wasted her on chemistry-free pairings with Snidely Whiplash imitator Reginald Love and a parade of Vince McKinnons.

Lemay was rehired earlier in 1988 and had submitted a bible that had, I believe, about 18 months of actual story and another 18 months of projections. It was something he didn't do usually, but the network mandated it as part of his rehiring.

It led to his firing, because as soon as they got what they wanted from him, they figured they could have others assemble the story without actually having to deal with Lemay, who would always want to push for making it better vs cranking it out.

I think he was actually at AW, strike aside, for about three months.

Harding LeMay was credited in the credit crawl as "Story Consultant" until his story bible ran out

Thank you, r573 r574. That was when I started watching soap operas. I knew nothing of Harding Lemay or Donna Swajeski. Matthew and Josie were just becoming a couple, and much of the plot had to do with Sharlene's assuring Josie that she was "every bit as good as any of the Corys," even though she was a "farm girl." I had no idea at the time of the subtext that underlay the story, but it was satisfying nonetheless. Eventually, Sharlene and Rachel shone in the Bay City version of De Maupassant's "The Necklace."

I thought people who didn't like soap operas didn't know what they were talking about. This was some good shit.

All prospective HWs have to submit some kind of story projection before they are officially hired. That's standard practice. The shows have to have some idea of what they're buying before signing a contract with a new HW.

In Harding Lemay's case, he probably submitted a more detailed story projection since he knew the show so well and also clearly could see what was needed to get it back on track.

I suspect if the writers strike hadn't happened, Lemay would have taken over as HW right about the time the strike happened -- April 1988. And I also would not be surprised if Swajeski and the others trying to guide AW were working, at least in part, from the story projection he had already submitted. The idea of bringing back Sharlene had to have been Lemay's.

And AW came out of the 1988 writers strike in much, much better shape than any of the other shows. Santa Barbara was especially hurt by the scabs. Ditto AMC where the scabs killed off Jesse, thereby destroying the only supercouple the show had at that time. But AW, the transition from the scab material to Lemay's had some bumps along the way but was relatively smooth compared to the other soaps.

Chris Robinson ate out Denise Alexander.

I hated seeing GH stars on AW. Neither of them fit AW.

How did you feel about AW stars on GH (or DOOL)?

[quote] All prospective HWs have to submit some kind of story projection before they are officially hired. That's standard practice. The shows have to have some idea of what they're buying before signing a contract with a new HW. In Harding Lemay's case, he probably submitted a more detailed story projection since he knew the show so well and also clearly could see what was needed to get it back on track.

R576 True, but Lemay was given a bit more leeway with that when he was first at AW (in the 70s) because of the style of his writing and the fact that he was less focused on plot.

By the time he'd returned they were less willing to have him give the shorter sort of projections he had the first time around.

[quote] Robert Keller-Kelly

What I wouldn't give for a taste of that dong.

R579, RKK was a minor star, not a long term performer like Chris Robinson or Denise Alexander. Big difference.

[quote] Apparently, they had known each other

They knew each other because both Jason and Mary worked for the Loves.

I adored Alexander as Mary McKinnon. Though she was of an age group that AW already had covered, she was of a type they didnt have at the time. She was the mother-nurturer. And at first her relationships with her children were the heart and center of her drama and quite moving. But she was never given a romantic partner worthy of her and once they began to write out her kids, she had no purpose. Actually, her best romantic pairing never quite happened, but was only hinted at and that was with John Hudson.

Chris Robinson was at one time married to the ex-wife of the guy who identified the Sharon Tate victims.

Chris Robinson is a little touched in the head, as I recall.

New thread for when this one ends in a few posts

Lemay's mention about his later work:

I seldom watched [AW] unless I was working on it, for Procter and Gamble, in spite of strong objections to what I had written about them in this book, hired me from time to time, for brief periods as headwriter, and longer ones as story consultant for it and other soaps they sponsored. Except for Vicky Wyndham as Rachel, none of the actors I had written for were still on the show when it ended its run. My cherished friend, Doug Watson died in 1989 of a sudden heart attack while on vacation. Connie Ford died in 1993, Anne Meacham in 2006, and Beverlee McKinsey and Irene Dailey both in 2008. We had all remained friends after I left the show and it is they who are most vivid in my memory of the years I spent writing for them. I have enormous admiration for actors, since they are hanging out on a limb, working on material that can range from the superb to the mediocre.

I worked in the soap world and one of my most prized possessions is a signed copy of Eight Years In Another World.

I couldn't believe Lemay lived until May of just last year, nearly 20 years after AW went off the air.

I laminated the column/death notice of Lemay's from the NY Times. I keep it in the book.

All we have now are the memories really. We'll read occasionally about the old P&G stars dying with obits if the obit writer is told who they are.

So sad; I wish more of the shows were preserved but I'm glad we had them while we did.

[quote] I laminated the column/death notice of Lemay's from the NY Times. I keep it in the book.

I am the Lemay Never Got a Proper Obit in the NYT troll, here to day that.....damn it, Lemay never got one!

[quote] here to day that

Here to SAY that!

Not to be confused with

Dusay that.

(Sorry, Marj.)

Lemay was a miserable old drunk.

But an extremely talented storyteller, R591.

Oh, the Lemay is a drunk/Doug Watson can't act/Beverlee McKinsey can't act troll is back off her meds.

Her name is Spicen, r593, and she has obviously never taken a single med.

((((BELCH!!!)))))))

R594 Yes, sadly there are a few around.

Just a reminder, new thread here

Someone in the new thread is saying we don't talk about ATWT enough.

So Kim Hughes will be patrolling the thread, pointing her finger at the lot of you and giving you a gruff "toots" or "kiddo" as needed.

Buh

Bye!