Why did the gay community not affectionately take Raquel Welch to its heart in the way it did Elizabeth Taylor and Joan Collins?

She's no camp - she's just kitsch.

See CAMP: deliberately exaggerated and theatrical in style, typically for humorous effect. Raquel took herself SO seriously

Oh I hadn't realised she was like that in her heyday r2 .I thought that was something of more recent years as she's gotten older. I think British TV presenter Graham Norton said of Raquel Welch that she was a moaning bitch after she guested on his show?

[quote]I think British TV presenter Graham Norton said of Raquel Welch that she was a moaning bitch after she guested on his show?

I'd moan if I was on that idiot's show.

Too obviously sexy, not an underdog, doesn’t excude much vulnerability, kind of humorless in her day.

Raquel always struck me as the type of woman who was a man’s man. Never got the impression she’d be good for a laugh or a bitch fest with the gays and gals. No idea what she’s like in real life but that’s the impression she gives me in the interviews I’ve seen.

He ain't that bad r4 ! Joan Collins has been on his show many times and he always seems to speak very well of her!

She has no warmth and she lacks a sense of humor about herself. She’s an ice princess.

I will admit her name confused me. Welch? She looked more ethnic. Raquel as a name seems nice, but something wasn't right for me, I know I'm terrible.

We had sufficient.

Good reply r5 Although I'm not sure why you think Joan Collins gives of an underdog or vulnerability vibe if that is what you are implying? Although Joan certainly has a lot of warmth and charm. Elizabeth certainly was vulnerable imo so I can understand that.

[quote]Good reply [R5] Although I'm not sure why you think Joan Collins gives of an underdog or vulnerability vibe if that is what you are implying?

Are you kidding? She's been to hell and back.

But as Joan so wisely says: "When life gives you lemons, you make lemonade".

R10 Collins was the underdog, because she was stuck in cheesy "B" movies and never gave up, she just kept grinding away, until finally after around thirty years in the business, and at an age when most women are supposed to accept that their beauty has faded, she became a world wide star and sex symbol.

Raquel is a hard-core republican.

I hear she's a bossy bitch.

Raquel was involved in dimwitted projects and never had an adult interest in anything different.

What R13 said plus she hangs out with religious right types like Pat Robertson (she's done "the 700 Club" several times over the years).

I don't know if she is a born again Christian but she always acts like one.

You can tell a lot about a person by the company that they keep.

She loves the bigots (not us).

Enough said.

She was a HUGE star in the 70's. Starred in one of the most beloved gay camp classics of all time. Delivered Oscar worthy performances in Kansas City Bomber and Three Musketeers (for which she won a Golden Globe). Earned raves for Woman of the Year and Victor Victoria on Broadway. Dates some of the hottest men in the industry.

If she's humorless, it's probably because she's never gotten the credit she deserves. If she were acting now, she'd be treated much better.

She has hair on her chest, is that normal for post meno women?

R13 Since so many of you want to bring politics into everything, Joan Collins is a right-winger, too. She has been a major backer of the Tories, especially Thatcher. And, she has been a friend of Donald Trump's for years, she even said she based Alexis partly on him.

I don't like her either R19 but thanks for reminding me on why I can't stand the bitch.

The gays always preferred Jackie anyway;-)

[quote]Since so many of you want to bring politics into everything, Joan Collins is a right-winger, too. She has been a major backer of the Tories, especially Thatcher.

no, she doesn't have strong views on anything political. "Major backer" bullshit.

R22 “And I was a very big supporter of Thatcher.”

r23 Joan Collins is definitely a dye in the wool tory but of the light blue variety .She described herself as being a tory in the 1940s mould IE one nation .She even supported a campaign on twitter for the tory government to stop going too far in cutting welfare to the sick and struggling as it was heartless. I do not agree with much of her politics or her endorsement of Margaret Thatcher but she is no political hardliner o extreme right winger . For a start she supports gay marriage.

I saw Joan Collins in a play about a decade ago. Nice person, not great or even good actress.

The gays can't embrace every fucking vagina in Hollywood

I could never imagine Joan Collins associating herself with a homophobe like Pat Robertson unlike Raquel.

Raquel Welch was mean to Farrah.

Fuck her; she does NOT get any of our cookies.

Really r28? that's odd as Farrahs so called best friend Alana Stewart in the run up to Christmas 2016 posted pictures of her with Raquel Welch ,Jaclyn Smith ,Joan Collins and a few others having a ladies who lunch Christmas get together at a posh Hollywood hotel lounge or something?

True I guess r26

she has a habit of crying in interviews - just watched her in "Myra" and she's trying too hard to be camp which is not the point of camp. by the way, it was my first sober viewing of "Myra Breckenridge" and man is that a boring mess of a film. it could've been fun in a more capable director's hands. it conveys almost nothing, it's a void.

The ONLY thing I liked Welch doing was cheap floor acts. She was good at that and nice to look at. She could win RuPaul's Drag Race.

Humorlessness is a big part of it. Welch’s efforts at knowing, winking camp in BRECKENRIDGE are just awful. Only Rex Reed was worse.

I don’t know that I’ve ever seen Joan Collins give a “great” performance, but Alexis on DYNASTY was delicious (and knowing, winking) fun. And yes, that alone gives her gay cred.

She takes herself VERY seriously, has NO sense of humor and is remarkably cutting and unkind.

I met her and she's a real bitch.

And you can see her wig's lace front under her bangs.

r34 could you expand a little on when you met Raquel Welch please? In what way did she behave like a bitch and what on earth is her basis for taking herself so seriously?!!

Bump!

Not gay but I loved ET as a young girl and thoroughly enjoyed JC in Dynasty etc, but Raquel Welsh never had the same appeal to me. She was too brittle and fake, without the warmth or campiness of the other two.

She was too much a heterosexual male fantasy object.

Ms.Welch did not marry handsome men. Her ten years with André Weinfeld did not make him handsome. I had dinner with them, she was a possibility for the cover of the NYTimes Magazine. A bit petite she was. Lovely, wore black slacks and a white silk blouse. Hardly a sex-pot. She was warm and conversational, just a celeb not to show much vulnerability, why would she? She kicked Becall's ass taking over Woman of the Year. Her Vegas act always sold out. She can dance, sing well enough. Interesting, her birth name. Her professional surname comes from an early marriage at 19. Divorce followed. She was 26 beginning in film. She did not work at any sex-pot image, that was press doing it. , so she'd smile and take the ink.

Could not act, no sense of humour, no sophistication. And she stunk up Broadway with her reed thin voice

Raquel is a lot like Dunaway (although, Dunaway is a FAR better actress). She's always taken herself too seriously to be considered fun to be around and the stories of her being a grade-A diva bitch are legion. I will give her props for finally embracing Myra Breckenridge, so at least she's one step above Dunaway in that regard. We don't get to always pick what we're remembered for on this earth and, honestly, to be remembered at all is an honor. Might as well be like Patty Duke and Raquel and own up to the delicious disasters in one's life.

Didn't Dick Cavett say she always wanted to talk about intellectual things Roman poetry?

It's because our true goddess Dawber, Pam, personality of Spam, hated Raquel. Raquel also pissed off some hack sitcom writers on the set of "Mork and Mindy," UNFORGIVABLE!

Raquel supposedly cunted to Farrah that her teeth would look enormous on the big screen.

Raquel is just too hetero and a hetero man's fantasy and didn't embrace the gay community. As a result, we didn't embrace her. Missed opportunity for both camps, if you'll excuse the expression.

Joan Collins had "Dynasty." Patty Duke had "Valley of the Dolls." Faye Dunaway had "Mommie Dearest."

While early on she acted a fair amount, Raquel Welch didn't have a memorable, meaty, campy roll for gays to embrace. I don't know why, but Myra Breckinridge didn't catch on or have a lasting effect.

The bitch had Tony's meaty roll, at least for the length of the shoot.

Ann-Margret is more apt comparison with Raquel. Both pin-ups. Both cpuld sing a bit. Both had TV specials and aborted attempts at recording careers. Both tried to be taken seriously as actresses, mostly through TV movies.

Ann-Margret has vulnerability and likability. Raquel has neither. And that phony, pageant speaking voice of Welch's does her no favours. She's not even imitatable.

Raquel and Cybill Shepherd are in a similar class, except Shepherd had that comeback vehicle (Moonlighting) for which people still have affection.

She lost support from the south when she got that rib removed.

In large part, I think it all boils down to a sense of humor or if you have such an over-the-top iconic performance such as Faye Dunaway in Mommie Dearest that cannot be ignored. Raquel seemed to not have either. Raquel thought of herself as a very serious actress long before she was. She eventually was a serious actress, but the moment to become a gay icon had passed due to the attitude or image. She was a major star, almost famous for being famous at times. But she didn't have "it" for the gay community.

Raquel wasn't funny old Hollywood like Zsa Zsa or Eva. She wasn't a talented sex kitten and then a serious actress like Ann-Margret. Raquel wasn't vulnerable. She didn't want laugh at herself at herself a bit. She ultimately went off the gay radar after never really being on.

Great post r51 Thank you. so am I right in assuming that the difference in reaction on Datalounge when Joan Collins dies and when Raquel Welch dies will be quite noticeable and stark?

[quote[so am I right in assuming that the difference in reaction on Datalounge when Joan Collins dies and when Raquel Welch dies will be quite noticeable and stark?

R52. It will be noticeable, but perhaps not stark. Raquel dying will be major. Joan dying will be off the charts...at least on DL. The mainstream media will be different, but they don't know. They don't appreciate or understand epic gay icon status.

She doesn't know how to laugh at herself. Liz could laugh at herself, her mistakes with men, movies, what have you. Welch is too, too earnest and takes herself wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to seriously. Liz didn't and she was a much better actress.

Joan Collins would be the first one to tell you that she did films like EMPIRE OF THE ANTS for the dough - she knew it was shitty and she will laugh at it. Raquel would tell you about the role that would make you think that SHE THOUGHT she was Sarah Bernhardt portraying Queen Elizabeth I at the Palladium.

The photo of Raquel that launched a a career: One Million Years B.C.

Thanks for your reply r53 . I take it in part you are referring to the reaction of the US media because in the UK media I feel certain Joan Collins passing (Please may it be many years off) would easily far and away get more media attention than Raquel Welchs passing. In terms of DL I agree with you Joan will get the bigger reaction.

She was never in the tabloids. She lived a very quiet life off screen, married and raising kids.

R57. The reaction in the UK when Dame Joan passes?! Omg, HUGE. Of course. She's a proud and popular Brit. But on DL, we'll be right there with you. Of course, Joan is getting up there, but she seems to be healthy; at least no health issues are ever reported. Raquel being a bit younger, well her passing is likely a long way off.

To be fair: she was a sex bomb, in her time and place. Stunning looking. Gorgeous. She reminds me a bit of Cindy Crawford, Stephanie Powers (an underappreciated beauty, IMHO), and any number of other Amazonian knockouts. However...

As noted upthread, some actresses/performers are so narrowly identified with straight men's desires that they tend to exclude, say, straight female fans. Or gay men. Or anyone else.

I don't ever recall a female fan (straight OR lesbian) who was just rabid for Raquel. Anyone here?

Collins and Taylor fans, by contrast come in all shapes, sizes, genders, orientations, ages. And THAT is what makes someone iconic.

Sure that is how it works most of the time r59 but don't forget she has outlived her younger sister and Queen Elizabeth has now outlived her younger sister by 17 years and Olivia De Havilliand has outlived her younger sister by 5 years and nearly all of her costars even the younger ones .

Lets fantasise Joan lives to 100- That will take us to 2033 .In that year Raquel would turn 93 in September .Its not wild to think Raquel could pass away first but who knows? I mean I can see Joan outliving many younger stars like Liza Minnelli , Joni Mitchell , Olivia Newton John , Barbara Windsor , Heather Locklear etc

R60. Good analysis particularly no straight females or gays really being gaga over Raquel, only straight men. But that didn't even last all that long because Raquel didn't really want to be a sex symbol, so the straight men sort of fell off and Raquel got older although still gorgeous, but straight men had other sex symbols by then.

Raquel Welch is the definition of "All fur coat and no knickers."

Meow scratch ! r63

I wonder if Raquel has ever got into a catfight with any of her costars.

Bump! Hoping for some behind the scenes dish on Raquel or some Hollywood insiders take on why she aint as popular as Liz and Joan.

Raquel has a beautiful face aesthetically but not a friendly face. Both Elizabeth Taylor and Joan Collins have faces that are beautiful and friendly.