Burke Ramsey, formerly of Boulder Co, settles with CBS

He's cute.

Still cute but obviously not as cute as he was when he was younger.

R2 Wow. I wonder why he was not part of the pageantry circuit. Are there no beauty kings anymore?

Wow his dad is a baller. The family gets to murder the sister and they get an undisclosed settlement. That's what I'm talking about.

It's creepy, but he looks so much like Elijah Wood (both in the current pic and in [R2]'s pic. Wood should definitely play him in the inevitable movie.

They shouldn't have settled...what a golden opportunity to put the father on trial for that greusome cover-up.

That little fucker got away with murder.

That show convinced me that Burke did it. Little fuckin psycho. He smeared shit on her stuff in her bedroom.

No he didn't R8.

Okay R9, enlighten me then.

He looks a lot like Patsy. I wonder if he likes to dress up like her like Norman Bates.

Would suck/rim him for days.

Unless, of course, he still smears feces.

Now THAT is a pretty child.

So, it was either her father or her brother that killed a beautiful little girl. How fucking depressing is that?

Where can one watch the CBS special in question?

He does it for me. It's hard to find any recent photos.

According to Vanity Fair, Patsy used to brag to people about how huge his dick was.

Creepy family.

If he's settling that means he didn't have proof, so he is going to get paid out by CBS's insurer.

Like all those parents who let Michael Jackson molest their kids and then cashed in on that.

r11 made me laugh.

"A boy's best friend is his mother!"

He doesn't look too bad in those photos but in the video footage he is creepy looking/sounding. He always has a creepy smile on his face.

This whole family was ruined. I really do think the worst kind of person this could have happened to was Patsey Ramsey. Definition of the fraus we goof on here.

Anyone that still thinks Burke did it isn’t too bright. The head would was 8” long and took more force than a kid could muster.

I don’t Think there was an intruder. John has had years to get a story together and damage control on these interviews. A lot of the weird shit they tried to do or did do in the weeks after has been forgotten by most.

R17. Patsey was on her third Vicodin/Xanax of the day and just wanted the world to know her family really was perfect.

The girls were dainty and beautiful and the men were butch af with iron forged cocks.

I'd like a cookie and a gold star.

I mean, keeping a child alive is hard work for a mother! Especially when one of them is a pint-sized harlot.

R21. Wound* and not to insult anyone’s intelligence but a kid just couldn’t have pulled this off.

I’ve always though it was most likely John since some of her sexual trauma had healed and was likely on-going.

[quote] According to Vanity Fair, Patsy used to brag to people about how huge his dick was.

John, or Burke?

Did the autopsy show proof of sexual molestation? I don't think Burke was involved. I also find it hard to believe that a complete stranger would have broke in, did it, and left that bizarre ransom note.

Patsy did it, then died of cancer for her since.

Always a weirdo

R23 Leave it to the pro, hun.

My theory is that Patsy accidentally killed JonBenet in a rage, and then she and John staged the scene to make it look like an intruder broke into the house because Patsy would've gone straight to prison if the truth was known.

[quote]According to Vanity Fair, Patsy used to brag to people about how huge his dick was.

FFS, you’re confusing bragging with the talent competition.

R29 Hun?

Did you pick up a shift at the truck stop Denny's?

I’m guessing they shaved off about 6 zeros in the settlement.

[Quote] I also find it hard to believe that a complete stranger would have broke in, did it, and left that bizarre ransom note.

Of course it wasn't a break in! The death of Jon Benet is an inside job.

I heard that Patsy Ramsey was buried in a cowgirl costume that was an adult-sized version of the one Jonbenet wore in the pageants. Creepy AF is true. Of course, everything about that family is creepy AF.

Yes, Burke appears to be weird as fuck, but being at the center of national murder mystery for most of your life could do that to a person. I've always felt sorry for him and Patsy and suspicious of the father, but my main theory has always been that it was an intruder, most likely a pedophile who had seen her on the pageant circuit, became obsessed and stalked and staked out the house for the perfect time to strike.

I honest to god, don't see how someone could look at all the evidence and say with a straight face it wasn't the family.

Other cases I get doubt, but there is really nothing pointing to the killer being from outside the home, and everything pointing to an inside job.

I always thought Patsy must have killed her ... UNTIL I saw that special. It was FASCINATING. I never even entertained the idea that Burke did it, and now I'm convinced that he did. Not only did it lay out how and why Burke was the culprit, it also explains why the parents were so obstructive and uncooperative with the police and the investigation.

There was a line in the special where the linguist says something to the effect of, "It appears that they're not protecting their child at all (JB), when in fact, that's EXACTLY what they're doing, but they're protecting the child that's still here."

The intruder theory has been dispelled to death. The glass was broken from the inside, and there were undisturbed spider webs on the outside right where someone would have to crawl to get in the window. And the family acted strange as shit after it happened. They were super uncooperative with investigators.

So where does he live now that he isn’t in Bolder, and how hard was it to sell the murder house?

The settlement was undisclosed. It could have been for $1. Their suit was a bluff for PR purposes. They had to respond but a trial would have been the last thing they wanted. All that evidence would have been testified to in court.

The house was substantially modified and given a new street address. It finally sold and I think sold again. It's been more than 20 years, so changes in ownership are bound to happen every 7-10 years or so. I do think the "death room" was one of the renovated areas.

R40, the Annual Holiday JB here is loaded with info. I read that a group of John’s friends formed an LLC, bought the house and sat on it, did some renovations, and finally sold it for him. I believe the address was changed as well, surprising that it wasn’t torn down, but why tear it down when you can make a buck, right?

They should make the house a tourist attraction. Here's where Patsy gave JB the pineapple!

[quote]The glass was broken from the inside, and there were undisturbed spider webs on the outside right where someone would have to crawl to get in the window.

If you've ever watched Forensic Files, it's at this point that the cops basically drag the homeowner by their collar to the station, hold them for hours and hours and basically torture a confession out of them. There have been a number of FF episodes with this exact same window situation, and evidence has always proven that the homeowner committed the crime.

Correct r44. But John lawyered up so hard and so fast, and the cops were so inexperienced and so intimidated, (remember John’s lawyers had ties to the fucking Governor’s office) that the cops killed it. One of 1,000 mistakes they made. They also failed to force John and Patsy to provude separate interviews that first day. Their first statements didn’t occur until months later.

IIRC, the German pathologist was pretty clear about how the blow from the flashlight could have driven the skull fragment into the brain (fatal) and also caused the resulting fracture. It was a heavy flashlight and wouldn't have taken a lot of effort. The who-(accidentally)-killed-her-and-who-(intentionally)-covered-it-up was all speculation, but they were pretty damn clear about it....

What kidnapper uses paper in the house to write a long ransom note? That stinks more than Patsy's pussy.

R47, even worse than that: The notebook and the pen came from two different drawers in the kitchen. After the kidnapper(s) finished their novel, they dutifully returned the pen to its drawer and the pad to its drawer.

(That ALONE would have been enough for me to convict!)

Hopefully now he will be able to hire a stylist and get rid of that unfortunate hair cut. It looks like the is borrowing the hair piece from Fox News pollster Frank Luntz.

I wish all the Mrs. Patsy Ramsey, formerly of Boulder CO, stand-ins on DL would wait until the leading lady can't actually go on before posting.

They dilute the brand.

Burke didnt do it,but he knows who did. He'll never tell.

I think the real Mrs. Patsy Ramsey, formerly of Boulder CO, went to Reddit or some other cool forum coz DL has gone to shit recently.

[Quote]coz DL has gone to shit

Yes, I can tell.

Burke is adorable.

[quote]What kidnapper uses paper in the house to write a long ransom note? That stinks more than Patsy's pussy.

What kidnapper wanting ransom money molests the kid right there on the spot, kills her & then leaves her dead body at the house? None of it makes a goddamn bit of sense.

Patsy seemed like a good woman, hard to imagine she would be capable of harming her daughter.

Patsy was a dumb cunt to dress her daughter up like a little whore.

One of my children knows how to make big money off of megacorporations. And another of my children knows how to sneak into the refrigerator to eat an extra slice of pineapple.

Guess which child gets severely corrected.

[quote]What kidnapper wanting ransom money molests the kid right there on the spot, kills her & then leaves her dead body at the house? None of it makes a goddamn bit of sense.

What kind of kidnapper in 1996 goes after a multi-millionaire's daughter in Boulder, CO?

[quote]I always thought Patsy must have killed her ... UNTIL I saw that special. It was FASCINATING. I never even entertained the idea that Burke did it, and now I'm convinced that he did. Not only did it lay out how and why Burke was the culprit, it also explains why the parents were so obstructive and uncooperative with the police and the investigation.

[quote]There was a line in the special where the linguist says something to the effect of, "It appears that they're not protecting their child at all (JB), when in fact, that's EXACTLY what they're doing, but they're protecting the child that's still here."

Growing up with a sick brother, I knew all the signs, and I suspected right away Burke did it.

r57

You never have been around a five year old girl. You give any girl that age makeup and they will come out a half an hour later looking like a whore.

Girls that age love to play dress up and grown up and over indulge in makeup and clothes if given the option.

Any girl would dress like JBR if allowed to, except for Jodie Foster, Sheila Kruel, Ann B Davis, Ellen DeGeneres and Nancy Kulp

I hope John Ramsey is man enough not to take this secret to the grave.

I detest people like that

[quote]the cops were so inexperienced and so intimidated

Uh...I think you mean inept and not particularly thorough. I still believe the intruder theory.

Pineapple and tea milkshakes? Your Honour: is that normal behaviour outside Gwyneth Paltrow’s home gym?

I still say JonBenet committed suicide and framed her family.

Patsy & John freaked out because they knew JonBenet had their number so they quickly scribbled the ransom note and the rest is history.

Burke is overprotective of JonBenet's memory and, even when was still alive, would take the blame to spare her the rod. She, in fact, was the one shitting all over the house.

JonBenet, the little cooze, was gussied up more than a saloon whore.

So you fuckheads finally figured it out, huh?

Well what the fuck are you gonna do about it, huh?

No one in that family killed that child. Good God.

And I must say, Burke is the spitting image of his mother.

R51, I am not sure. They post above that a child his age could not have inflicted a wound like JB received. I think he could have and there are many ways he could have, but the fact that he was sent to the neighbors the next morning tells me he was most likely asleep or unaware of what happened. Had he done it and witnessed the cover up maneuvers--the perps would have been afraid that he would have told the neighbors what happened.

There is a difference between little girls playing dress up, and a mother getting hair extensions for a 5 year old and dressing her like a vixen to sing and dance.

[Quote]No one in that family killed that child.

Well we know that silly ransom note still managed to convince someone!

Hand writing experts who looked at the ransom note say it was very, very likely written by Pasty, some peeps are delusional.

R69

Given a chance all little straight would dress like that without any coaxing from mom

Cute little killer

[quote] Hand writing experts who looked at the ransom note say it was very, very likely written by Pasty, some peeps are delusional.

And some peeps are too stupid to know that in a case like this everyfuckingbody involved from the legal side is looking at one main thing. How they can capitalize on the notoriety of the case, get their name in the media, and in some way make some major bucks off it. Exaggerating, lying, & ruining innocent people's lives matters not to them as long as they see some sort of benefit from it, either financially or career wise.

They all tried, they all failed, none of their lunatic theories panned out, no one in the family or anywhere else was arrested because they had no evidence against any of them, and all they did was display for the world just what an incompetent pack of morons all the legal eagles (especially the cops) involved in this case were. So, after it was all over they all slinked out of sight mainly out of fear they'd get their stupid asses sued if they ran their mouths too much.

WHERE THE FUCK DO WE WATCH THIS CBS SPECIAL!?!?! Has it been scrubbed from existence?

Hmm, so it wasn't the family since they were never arrested r74? Since no one was arrested, I guess no one killed Jon Benet!!!

Lots of things are never proven in a court of law. So many murders are never cleared because they can't be proven. Doesn't mean you cant look at the evidence and use common sense.

Though we agree that the handling of this case was incompetent, that is a long acknowledged fact.

Other than that you basically said nothing with your long hysterical rant, but work bitch.

R76, you're just another mealy mouthed bitchy queen who isn't satisfied unless you think you're making everyone think you know more because you've got the best deductive abilities on the planet. Bitch please! Get back to your People Magazine and shut the fuck up, cunt.

I don't think any little girl wants to be dressed up like that. Those girls in the pageant are just trying to make their mothers happy. Their mothers are likely passive aggressive and withhold affection unless the child goes along with all the pageant BS. Or the mothers have already beaten down the children emotionally to the point they find it easier to play along than resist. No kid wants to sit still for an hour in a chair while mom (or whoever) smears sticky paint on her face and pulls her hair and pokes her scalp with heated irons during styling.

In the other thread, someone posted pictures of JonBenet dressed in a snowsuit playing in the snow, and it looked like she was wearing lipstick, which was color coordinated to match the snowsuit. How fucking sad. Most girls experience intense peer pressure to wear make up at about age 13 or so, and their parents try to talk them out of it, for fear they're growing up too fast. Imagine being pressured by your own mom to wear lipstick at age 5. The message is "You need to be prettier. You're not pretty enough without it." It should be illegal for any girl under 13 to participate in one of these pageants. And no one under 18 should parade around in a swimsuit or lingerie competition; any style element should be based on school clothes fashions.

Even worse, I bet these overbearing, attention-craving moms make their daughters miss school to travel for this bullshit, too. The parents are getting something from this, maybe it's attention...or living vicariously through their daughters. It might not be too much different from those parents who pressure their kids to play their favorite sports. At least in sports, you get exercise, you learn teamwork skills, and you might win scholarships. With beauty pageants, all you get is probably messed up self esteem. And Patsy did all this in the 1990. Imaging what a monster she'd be if she'd had a facebook account.

R75, Enjoy ....

(After watching, please report back what you think, since you are watching it for the first time ...)

Part 2 of 3 ...

Part 3 of 3

Side Note: If you jump to 40:33, that is the part that gave me chills, when the linguist talks about how it looked like they weren't interested in protecting their child, when, in fact, that is exactly what they were doing, just not the child we were expecting.

OMG thank you!! I'm watching it right now!

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

I don't think he's the first nutcase to say that he did it.

I also found the show on Amazon, but you have to buy it.

Eric D, come over to The Killing of JonBenet thread, I’m inviting you if you’d care to join us?

That actually happened last year r84

I would have to say that for me the case is a true mystery and I have no idea who did it. Wealthy people that immediately lawyer up and limit questioning seems suspect, but it was probably good legal adivice. IF nothing else, this case shows the difference in our justice system and how suspects are treated according to race and bank balance/social status

R87 Thank you, I'm starting to read it now.

Wealthy people have historically lawyered up. I remember the case of the Manhattanite socialite that went missing. This was 1910 and when Dorothy Arnold disappeared the family called their lawyer first.

does anyone know what Burke does for a living. i don't mean where he works, but what does he do? like is he a computer analyst or a systems admin, whatever? i know he was studying computer technology in college.

Everything R78 said. Lots of little girls like to play with make up themselves, not sit for hours being made up by their mothers like painted dolls.

"Listen carefully! We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction." Patsy read one too many airport paperbacks, and had a flair for the dramatic. Regardless of the handwriting, the 3 page ransom note just screams Patsy in so many ways. She gave herself away completely by writing it, and I don't know how anyone who believes an intruder did it can give a valid explanation for the note.

Would a mother write about beheading her child though?

Who writes a 3-page ransom note? Who even writes a ransom note, period?

...and then returns both the notepad & marker back to their respective places in the house.

Seriously, r97! The Boulder PD should've dragged John and Patsy down to the station to sweat them out on that little detail alone. The incompetence of the police in this case is astounding. It makes the cops who interviewed OJ Simpson look like they were actually doing their jobs. That's how outrageous this case is.

That's why the cancer ate away Patsy. God doesn't like killers.

What about this guy?

[quote]That's why the cancer ate away Patsy. God doesn't like killers.

No, it was from the guilt of keeping her killer son out of jail.

[quote]does anyone know what Burke does for a living.

That creep works at home as a software engineer and at one time was thought to have had a Jonbennet lookalike girlfriend.

Here's a bit more on the smiling.

I want Burke inside me, deeply

R102 & R101, sounds like the creep.

The grand jury charged to hear the case voted to indict, but the district attorney decided it would be a hard case to prove, so he chose not to press charges. That's why this case was never brought to trial.

R102 Eww, she looked like a seven year old beauty queen?

r103 Duper's delight.

R105 sounds like Burke, the shit smearing, creepy killer brother!

Burke admitted that he can still see in his mind's eye what his sister's body looked like at her service. "I remember the viewing," he said. "The casket was small [and] her eyes were closed. I think one of her eyes was a little bit, like, droopy," he told Dr. Phil (via Inside Edition). "That was weird. That was traumatizing, a little bit."

Family friends told The Case Of: JonBenét Ramsey that Burke attacked JonBenét with a golf club more than a year before she was killed. In a video of a police interrogation of Burke, he appears cheerful and unaffected and flailed an invisible weapon around to show how she may have been killed. The program also alleged Burke had "scatological" issues, often spreading feces around the house, including in JonBenét's bedroom.

Anyone think he has a slight touch of gay face?

R110, What friends said Burke attacked JonBenet? The story is he was practicing his golf swing and she walked behind him, at least according to Patsy.

r110 Yes Burke, one of the eyes on your little sister's corpse was a little droopy.

That's because in a fit of explosive anger, fueled by a day of Christmas sugar and your autistic possessiveness, you knocked the shit out of her after she playfully stole a piece of pineapple from you.

I wish Ryan Murphy wold tackle the Jon Benet murder case on ACS, but he's probably afraid of being sued by the Ramseys. They seem very litigious.

r114 that would be awesome. Who could play Patsy?

R114 God no. He'd get distracted and make a mess

Hasn't Burke Ramsey and his whole insane family and the murder of JonBenet been discussed ad nauseum on the "Killing of JonBenet: Her Father Speaks" thread? The "settlement" he reached with CBS was also discussed. It's generally thought that he didn't much, if anything, in the way of monetary compensation.

And no way in the world is this freak show "cute."

He definitely has more than a touch of gay face, and I don't think he's even a little bit cute. His sister got all the good looks.

Perhaps a stupid question, but in the CBS special they showed a pic of a bloody and cracked human skull (I've also seen this pic when Googling JBR stuff). They never actually said, but I assumed that was JB's skull in the picture? Anyway, here's where my question gets really stupid: Assuming that pic is of JBR's skull, A) Why'd they feel the need to completely remove it from her body and B) How'd they get it back into her body for the funeral?

[quote]What friends said Burke attacked JonBenet? The story is he was practicing his golf swing and she walked behind him, at least according to Patsy.

Do you want to believe that or the truth?

[quote]Based on some unusual behavior that Burke exhibited in interviews with child psychologists in the days following her death, and on previous incidents of violence that he committed toward his sister—including hitting her with a golf club a mere week before she was found dead in the family basement—the team believes that a scuffle between the unsupervised siblings over the coveted pineapple led to Burke hitting his sister with a blunt object and subsequently killing her. After she snatched a piece of pineapple from the bowl, they propose, Burke could have struck her with a heavy flashlight, intentionally or unintentionally bashing in her skull.

R120, I don't know where you got you information but the incident with Burke hitting JonBenet with a golf club happened a 1 1/2 years before her death. If they can't get basic facts right why should trust their guesses?

You are right. It did happen a year or so before her death, but it didn't appear to be an accident. Vanity Fair pretty much says so.

[quote]A former friend of the Ramsey family also told the team that Burke had seemed jealous of all the attention his little sister was receiving—he had a “chip on his shoulder”—and that he had hit JonBenét with a golf club about a year and a half before the murder. The friend said Patsy Ramsey told her he had had a temper tantrum, although on-screen text quotes John Ramsey as saying the incident was an accident.

Sizemeat verficatia on Burke?

I guess John Ramsey keeps Burke out in the backwoods, so he can't harm folks.

According to my sources, Burke currently resides in Zionsville, IN.

That's my boy!

I tried and tried to teach his sister - but JonBenet didn't have what it takes to be a Winner.

(Sneaking out of bed to eat pineapple? JHC, what a Loser she was!)

Burke was just practicing his golf swing when he smacked his little sister? Oh, what a tragedy that the PGA lost such a major talent.

It's funny that people believe that John or Patsy paid enough attention to Burke to conclude if he clubbed her on purpose.

I think his jealousy towards his sister must have been white hot. Of course it would be. Here's his sister, getting showered with all this attention, having all this money spent on her, winning beauty pageants and getting prizes and trophies and adulation. And after her murder, he seemed not to be affected by it at all. Not at all! I think he hated her. I think very he very well could have killed her.

Or not. You don't KNOW.

" You don't KNOW."

Neither do YOU.

Exactly.

Children killing each other is very rare.

[quote]I think his jealousy towards his sister must have been white hot. Of course it would be. Here's his sister, getting showered with all this attention, having all this money spent on her, winning beauty pageants and getting prizes and trophies and adulation. And after her murder, he seemed not to be affected by it at all. Not at all! I think he hated her. I think very he very well could have killed her.

Oh, he most definitely did, but I didn't know she was sexually assaulted that night she died. So sad.

[quote]Who could play Patsy?

Is Delta Burke too old now?

r132

Yeah that's stupid

R74, agree with you 100%.

What also gets me is that no one wants to recognize the following: John Ramsey ran that shit show from “Go”, and though he made a major mistake by allowing Patsy to write that utterly ridiculous ransom note, in the end, it was just another bullshit distraction that morons on these threads here on DL, go on and on about, just like others do on other threads like Reddit.

Rule number one when analyzing anything that has to be viewed from the outside looking in: the easiest explanation is almost always the right explanation, and the truth.

I’ve read the shit out of this case. When I was holed up in my bedroom with my bottle of Vodka and pack of American Spirits, reading was all I had going on. And even as drunk as I always became, this shit was beyond obvious.

Burke Ramsey, in my estimation, accidentally and unintentionally killed his little sister. His motives are irrelevant, because in no way do I believe he intended to mortally wound her.

He banged her over the head, or beat her skull into the stairs or a hard surface that had a 90 degree angle, in an attempt to express anger at Jon Benet. The pineapple slices are just as good of a reason as any when ascribing motives to a 9 year old boy, so let’s go with that.

He told his parents. There’s been an accident. John Ramsey takes a look. She’s dead. There’s no going back. Patsy is in hysterics, and he sits her down quietly, and tells her some shit like: We need to save our son. We will lose him too. You must cooperate with me 100% here, or he’s gone.

Burke is always underestimated right here. This is where everyone gets lost, because they think, “No way did Burke have the ability to say nothing”. Umm, yes. He did have the ability to say NOTHING, because his father explained to him quite clearly, that if he fucked this up, he would spend his life in jail. Doesn’t matter if that was going to happen. John explained it as such, and Burke believed it.

John and Patsy bumble around, and John allows Patsy to write the ridiculous ransom note as a way of calming her down, and giving her an assignment, or he directs her to do so, in order to set up the stage. “Missing kid, our little girl, & we know she’s missing because we found a note, Officer”. They stage the rest, including the garrote and paintbrush. They cleaned her up, removed all physical evidence pointing to their son.

John and Patsy call the cops. They do not show up for hours. Only Detective Linda Arnt is there, all by herself for at least an hour and a half, IIRC.

Before Jon Benet’s body is found in the basement, John Ramsey disappears for over an hour. This is the time when John Ramsey is on the phone with his lawyer. John is instructed to not allow Burke to return to the house, and he is instructed to get himself, Burke and Patsy out of Colorado, which he does.

All of the other shit, like having all of these people come over, was designed to diffuse attention away from the only three people who could have killed JB, her family.

How anyone thinks this is anything else, other than the very simple answer of what it actually was, is beyond me.

And in the end, the CUNTS at the Boulder PD are to blame for fucking up a case so royally, that it is now seared in the brains of all who decide to take a look at the evidence, and come up with the same shit anyone else with an IQ over 90 can figure out.

Burke Ramsey killed his little sister. He didn’t mean to do it, and he had no choice but to do everything his parents demanded he do, because he was a child, and he was terrified. I hope he got help. Carrying that shit around cannot be easy. And who knows whether or not any of us here would have reacted any differently than John Ramsey. Parents will do anything to protect their children, ANYTHING.

As always, vodka and American Spirits bring out the truth.

Luckily for Burke, he's so far up the spectrum that he's incapable of any feelings of guilt.

r136 I don't know why you call people morons when it comes to the ransom note. It was such an obvious clue of course people are going to talk about it.

R138, you’re right and I misspoke.

R136, It's amusing (to me, anyway) that your post starts just like the guy on reddit (sorry, can't find the post at this time), saying it's so obvious, anyone with half a brain can see it was... John. So how a prosecutor could ever convince twelve people that (blank) did it? It would be a mistrial every time. Maybe some here "know" who did it, but they can't prove it to anyone but themselves.

R140

R136 I don’t agree. A 9 year old boy murdering his sister with one perfectly placed blow at that level of velocity, and then *both* parents losing their minds at the same time, to as a couple agree to *not* call for help, and then staging an elaborate cover-up/faux sexual assault paired with a ransom note and broken window, and then calling the cops *together* while the body is still in the House is NOT a simple scenario — how you don’t see that is beyond what I can fathom.

The most simple explanation is what FBI experts state — that when a child is murdered the stats are 13 to one that the eldest male in the family unit committed the murder. That stat = John. A single perpetrator who was covering up sexual abuse *is* the most simple scenario. One abuser, one stager, one author, one killer.

Some cultures ask the big questions; why am I here? Who am I? Here on DL, our existential crisis lies in who we believe killed JonBenet.

R142 Obviously, you don't work with children. They are capable of having a lot of strength.

Have you ever heard of adrenalin? I had it, when I became angry, and I lifted a couch from one side of the room to another. I was an underweight woman. When I calmed down. I couldn't believe I had the strength to do that, and I couldn't get it back to the other side w/o help.

Um r143, I used to be a teacher. You know, of children? And yes, I understand how adrenaline works, I have that too!

Then, you must have worked either a few years or at a school w/few situations. I've worked at many schools, and I've come across thousands of children. Trust me, nine-year-olds are quite capable of breaking something, even fracturing a skull.

"Capable of" obviously doesn't mean he actually did it.

R145, you sound unhinged. I know exactly what 9 year olds can do, which is precisely why I think the Burke story is ludicrous. It’s interesting that you perpetuate the idea that if someone disagrees with you, they must have less knowledge and/or experience than you do. Did it ever occur to you that YOU might have less knowledge? Or that someone else can have the SAME amount of “expertise” as you, but that they arrived at a different conclusion? I don’t give a fuck how much experience you have, we can debate the merit of the theory without focusing on each other’s backgrounds — are you capable of that or no?

He was a scrawny little dweeb with zero athletic ability or strength or coordination. No fucking WAY. It has been stated that the blow was literally powerful enough to “fell a 300 lb man.” Think of it like this — could Burke crush the skull of a 300 lb man with a flashlight? ENORMOUS velocity and precision went into that blow, a grown man did it, not the little dweeb. It was a kill shot. I could believe Burke attacked her if there were multiple smaller fractures. Not that 8-inch long *crush* of her skull.

R146

" It has been stated that the blow was literally powerful enough to “fell a 300 lb man.”

BullSHIT. I don't believe that for a minute. If the blow was that powerful it would have split her head wide open, and that certainly wasn't the case. You are obviously hell bent on exonerating Burke Ramsey. Well rave on, but you're never never going to convince many people that he was incapable of killing his little beauty queen sister. He was very capable of killing her. He could have done it, yes he could. You just don't want to believe that because you like him. You LIKE him.

Again, you can’t debate this based upon facts and without emotion. That quote is correct. But you know more than the coroner who said that, yes? My understanding when I first read that quote is that there is not a dramatic difference in the bone density of a 6 year skull versus an adult, ergo, that blow could have “felled a 300 lb man.” That seems logical to me, though I’m not an expert — this is but one of a multitude of facts I’ve compiled that lead me in a different direction than you.

Now, that was one coroners opinion. If there are other coroners who spoke to the velocity of that hit aside from the tragedy that aired on CBS, I would love to hear it. We all know that there are kids who kill other kids. My point is that looking at Burke as a child, and as an adult, I don’t believe he would have had the motor skills necessary to do it. He was uncoordinated, weak, inactive, unathletic and socially awkward; I just don’t see it. Not to mention the 10,000 other points I’ve made that point to someone other than Burke. I know this upsets you very very VERY much r149. Too bad, so sad.

The point of these threads is to discuss the thousands of tidbits of information on this case, to learn more, and to gain insight. When you respond like a fucking cunt, it ruins the fun for everyone.

I don't think John Ramsey was capable of knocking out a 300lb man. He didn't "look" that athletic either...

Touché r151, that is true. But wouldn’t you say that John, with his naval training and experience, just might have had an inkling on how to put down another person more so than his 9 year old son?

If indeed a "coroner (which coroner? what's the name of this coroner?)" made the "blow that could have felled a 300 lb. man" statement it sounds like pure hyperbole by somebody who wants to be dramatic. It sounds like a quote a tabloid would come up with it's so over the top.

And where has it been said that Burke Ramsey was "uncoordinated, weak, inactive, unathletic?" Seems to me that if he could swing a gold club hard enough to smash his sister in the head he could have wielded another type of club with a certain amount of force.

R150, I know it upsets you very very VERY much to hear anyone suggest that Burke Ramsey had a hand in his sister's murder. But a lot of people do think that. Too bad, so sad. But just because you like Burke Ramsey very, very, VERY much doesn't mean he, even as child, is incapable of murder. He's always going to be a suspect. I guess you'll just have to learn to live with that.

Anyone who links to a clip from the homophobic piece of shit known as Bad Grandpa should be pushed out of a highchair to strike their head on the floor and die themselves.

R153, I’m not the person whom you are currently responding to, but I’d like to point something out:

Let’s pretend that a 300 lb man is sitting on the floor. We don’t know his height, however, that doesn’t need to be taken into account, unless his height, while sitting on the floor, exceeds the height of Burke, as a nine year old. Let’s assume that Burke’s height while he is standing, exceeds the height of the 300 lb man’s torso.

If Burke picks up a solid object, such as a hammer, or a heavy flashlight, or anything else that is designed for gripping by two hands, or one hand, he can theoretically crack open the skull of this man, as long as he has a good grip, a solid stance, leverage, and enough distance from the skull of the man, in order to engage in full range of motion.

Below is exhibit “A”, showing a boy who appears to be at the very least 10 years old, or younger:

Exhibit “B”, shows a boy who is poised to crack open some wood.

Does it really matter how the little tramp died?

Oops! My two posts above were meant for R147.

They need to find the kids that played with JonBenet and test their dna to see if it matches that found on her clothes. Little kids are always touching when playing. Detectives are looking for an adult match, but didn't do the most obvious.

If Burke killed her by boppin' her on the head then how'd she claw at the garrote tied around her neck? Hmm?

Exactly. Are we to believe that someone else strangled her AFTER Burke hit her on the head? And covered up for him? That scenario has been postulated, but seems unlikely TO ME.

Why has no one seriously looked at Freddy Krueger as a viable suspect?

Are they both wearing lipstick in that photo at R161? Sure looks like it. And they both look like they're wearing eye makeup, too. And their pose looks more like lovers than siblings. So fucking weird.

I think John is no longer rich, so there's that at least.

I mean all these years later and no one even bothers to consider the Manson family as suspects. Really?

Is the reward still offered?

The photo at R161 is very "Flowers in the Attic." The parents hiring a professional to stage and photograph the children like that is just odd, beyond bad taste. In that photo, there's more heat between the siblings than in any photo of Patsy and John. Creeeeepy.

R153, guuuuuuurl. You are seriously bananas. I could give a fuck about Burke, I dislike the whole family, they are all highly repulsive humans. You project your own psychological issues into a thread that could be interesting and shit all over it. Feel better now that you took a big dump? Good. I’ll bring you animal crackers and apple juice after nappy time.

R155 and r156, thank you for posting those, without getting into too much, I’m around boys and outdoorsy types a lot, so yes, I am aware of what you’re showing and it’s a completely legit example. But for me, the difference is that she was hit with a blunt object (as you can imagine, an ax is weighted/designed to be swung, the object that killed her was not, which makes swinging it just different and slightly awkward compared to an actual tool such as an ax) and more than that, those boys you’re showing were taught very young how to swing and aim etc etc. Burke was a spoiled little preppy boy, not raised with skills and physical activity. But yes, it’s a great example to show that you are right, it is most certainly “possible” that Burke had the potential to hurt someone else. All three of them were capable of killing her, that must not be denied.

When I look at the totality of the case however, it doesn’t fit for me is all I can say. I just don’t understand why it’s easier to believe that a little kid committed what would be an EXTREMELY rare type of murder when statistically speaking, it is a much more simple solution to acknowledge that the father is the more likely killer. I don’t understand why people feel the need to make Burke “fit” while a much more obvious suspect is sitting there staring at you. Can you elaborate on why you think it makes more sense that Burke did this vs John? Because I don’t get that and would be curious to hear your thinking.....no snark. ; )

Oh, I forgot to mention to Looney Tunes, the coroner I referenced is Cyril Wecht. And you can try to debate with me his perspective all you want — it’s but one piece of hundreds that have formulated my position. Maybe you can do that without being a cunt? Unlikely.

R168. The coroner didn’t do any tests to determine the exact time of death. I would have thought that wound be one of the first tests a compotent coroner would have done.

I don’t recall that but I believe it r169. I believe part of the thinking is that because she was in an actual wine cellar, it dramatically impacted the decomposition process. Her body was so dramatically cooled that taking the temperature wouldn’t be an accurate gauge of the timing — not defending that decision, just explaining what I recall reading. Also, because of the wine cellar temperature, I believe they decided that the partially digested food was a better gauge of the time of death. The mistakes made are too countless to list.

R168 sounds like the most insufferable shitheel imaginable. I imagine people flee at the sight of him. And he does have a peculiar fondness for Burke Ramsey, hence his continual defense of him. He talks about him like he knows him ("Burke was a spoiled little preppy boy, not raised with skills and physical activity") but no doubt he only WISHES he knows him. I think he wishes for a lot more than that. Gag.

[quote] Burke was just practicing his golf swing when he smacked his little sister? Oh, what a tragedy that the PGA lost such a major talent.

JB was struck below one of her eyes and that's the story Patsy told the ER doctor when she took her there for stitches. Only the family was present so It's the only first hand report of what happened so we're stuck with it no matter what the truth is. It happened at the family's Wisconsin vacation home.

r170, it wasn't an actual wine cellar. That's just what the family called it. It was small room in the corner of the basement with no wine and no climate control.

Oooooooo r171 has hurt feewings because someone has a different point of view. Do fuck off r171, hard. And fast.

R172, yes yes, but it was a cement basement floor in winter in Colorado. It was fucking cold, it was not a temperature akin to a typical domestic space.

R173 is obviously the one who has "hurt feewings." Do go suck Burke Ramsey's wee wee. You KNOW you want to. You want to SO bad.

R175 is the Annual JonBenet Thread Stalker. Again, fuck off r175. This thread was marching merrily along until you arrived. No one is interested in your derailing.

The picture at r161 is indeed terrifying lolol!!!! I don’t understand Patsy’s “aesthetic.”

Drop dead, R176. If anybody is derailing this thread, it's you, you insane asshole. Eat shit, you loony fuckhead.

If you opt to block r175, you will notice that the conversation continues to move forward in a lovely direction without distractions.

R169, could you post a source on that? Curious to read......

R179. I think I read that in Lawrence Schiller’s ‘Perfect Murder Perfect Town’ I’ll try to look later this evening. I’ve just moved and things are still a wreck.

Here’s a Reddit on John’s golf clubs, he supposedly asked for his clubs when his MIL (or whoever) was allowed into the house to remove personal items right after the murder. L

Thank you r180!!!

[quote] Burke was a spoiled little preppy boy, not raised with skills and physical activity.

Did you not hear the story of Burke swinging a golf club? Apparently, he was practicing his golf swing.

[quote]Exactly. Are we to believe that someone else strangled her AFTER Burke hit her on the head? And covered up for him? That scenario has been postulated, but seems unlikely TO ME.

Sometimes a mother has to make creative use of the opportunities naughty children provide.

[quote]. Are we to believe that someone else strangled her AFTER Burke hit her on the head? And covered up for him? That scenario has been postulated, but seems unlikely TO ME.

Why couldn't Burke do both? When someone is angry, they usually don't stop at one strike. They come back with something more, and if you look at what was used to strangle JB, it looks exactly what a child might use. Seriously, who uses a string and paint brush, an adult would just grab something long enough to wrap around a neck. On the other hand, a child, with small hands, will pick up string and a small stick (paint brush) to kill.

Moreover, Burke was fascinated with knots.

He received The Boy Scout Handbook as a present Christmas morning.

Burke was awarded The best All-Around Camper award at summer camp.

In the Boy Scout handbook it details how-to make the BASIC primary Boy Scout knot called a Prusik knot, which is the knot found on the "garrote."

Burke had at least two knifes. He was known to whittle down sticks of wood and left the shavings everywhere he went. The garrote is a broken, whittled down piece of wood handle.

In Burke's own testimony during his interview with Det. Schuller in June of 1998, he says one of the reasons he likes knives is because it helps him "tie better knots".

Interesting post, R185. The one detail that makes me doubt the Burke theory is the fact the parents sent him to the White’s home immediately. If I were the Ramseys I’d be worried Burke would say too much in the White’s presence.

Was there any blood spatter? I don’t recall any mention of blood spatter and wouldn’t the blow to the head create a bloody mess?

You know if I were a betting man, I'd put my money on Ted Bundy as the culprit!

You girls are both ghouls.

[quote]The one detail that makes me doubt the Burke theory is the fact the parents sent him to the White’s home immediately. If I were the Ramseys I’d be worried Burke would say too much in the White’s presence.

Now, I could be wrong, but I heard the reason they did that was because the cops were coming to the home.

[quote]Was there any blood spatter? I don’t recall any mention of blood spatter and wouldn’t the blow to the head create a bloody mess?

He didn't crack her skull and break the skin. It was a fracture that left bruises on the skin and brain.

Wouldn’t the force (that was reported to knock over a 300 pound man) be strong enough to rupture the skin? I wonder if there was an error in reporting the estimated force of the blow to the head. If it were less forceful it would be more believable a child could be responsible.

Thinking back to other cases where there was evidence of blunt force trauma, there has always been blood.

I think it was Patsy. She realized she was raising a little WHORE!

The Ramseys were probably fine with sending Burke to their friends house knowing that Burke was a highly uncommunicative child and their friends were unlikely to grill a "grieving" child on details of the murder. They were correct to try to keep him away from police, as we've seen from tapes that a trained professional could get a lot of information from him.

R185, what about the note? The broken window? The footprint on the suitcase? Burke did all that? Or the parents covered for him? I think you're correct that he wouldn't have stopped with one strike if he were in a rage, except he did stop. To get a garrotte? Seems unlikely TO ME.

R193

R194

Meh r192. They had zero way of knowing if the cops would simply send a Detective over to where Burke was to fetch a witness statement from him. So, I’m curious. I believe your thinking is that Burke did it and the parents were covering it up. So my question to you is, if the parents went through all of this highly elaborate, complicated staging of a crime scene to make it look like he did it, why would they not also remove her body and *not* call the cops until the body was gone first? Also, why would they have not called 911? I am pretty certain that all the forensic pathologists who reviewed the coroners report (there were six if memory serves) all concurred that her death was not instant. I believe they theorized that she would have lived between two and six hours — so she was absolutely breathing after the blow. Then why, oh why oh why oh why, would they have instead done the cover up if she was still breathing, hmmmmm??? Yes, I cannotlie, I’m being slightly snarky, but only because I think the questions I’m posing are big and juicy.

"Why would they not also remove her body and *not* call the cops until the body was gone first? Also, why would they have not called 911?"

Remove the body? Remove it where? And they DID call 911; Patsy Ramsey called 911 at 5:52 a.m.

After the first blow they all knew they were in BIG trouble. They knew they could never explain away their daughter's bashed head as an accident. They did the cover up while she still alive because they were frantically trying to make it look like no one in the family did it. I'm sure a lot of crazy talk went on until finally it was decided to strangle her to death and make it seem like an "intruder" who wanted to kidnap her had done it. Quite diabolical, those Ramseys.

R136, your theory makes no sense, for a number of reasons. She was killed after the strangling, not just from the head wound. And if it were an accident by Burke (or they could claim it was), the extreme staging makes even less sense. Why garrote her? A kidnapper could just as easily be believed to have bashed her head in as anything else. No need to do anything else to that body. And I don't care how much "control" John had over his son, if his son did it or at least knew the truth, they'd never trust Burke alone with anyone else so quickly. Even if they thought they could convince Burke not to offer anything up to the Fleets or whomever else he encountered, they had no way of knowing whether Burke would be peppered with well-meaning questions and inadvertently give something away. You can't trust a child to keep a conspiracy secret, FFS.

It's also a little silly to imagine, knowing they had all those connections and influence, that they wouldn't be confident they could protect their son if it were truly an accident. Hell, even if it wasn't. They were ballsy enough to refuse to cooperate and go right to the press when their own asses were on the line, can you imagine the self-righteous tone they'd have taken over the police trying to RAILROAD their PRECIOUS INNOCENT SON?!

R197

R197, I should be more clear — why would they not call 911 IMMEDIATELY when she was injured? They had no way of knowing how severe her head injury was, there was NO BLOOD for Christ’s sake. No blood, not a drop!!! So, while they may have felt the wound and could feel some compression on her skull, the scalp skin and hair would absolutely mask how much damage there was — it was mostly internal, that wound was NOT easily apparent. Remember, Detective Linda Arndt stated that in all her time with the body, being right next to it and up close (she was literally over the body on one side and John on the other), she had no idea JB even had a head wound! She stated she was *shocked* during the autopsy when JB’s scalp was peeled back to reveal that wound. So why oh why oh why, would those parents not have called 911 the MOMENT she was hurt? I’ll wait......WHY would the parents have assumed this was a fatal blow??????

^ Exactly. She'd still have at least a faint heartbeat and shallow breathing. And even if they couldn't detect either for sure, you don't think they'd move heaven and earth to try and save her? If there was even the slightest chance? Patsy would be screaming for Jesus to breathe life into her while the paramedics were doing CPR.

Whatever happened to her was not an "accident." Even if the blow was not meant to kill her, it was horrific deliberate abuse. No accident explains the garrote and the complete lack of attempt to call an ambulance. Or hell, even a doctor friend. These people were CONNECTED. They'd have weathered an accident far better than a fake kidnapping with a dead body in the cellar.

"She was killed after the strangling, not just from the head wound."

That's not what the experts in the CBS show said. They said she died from the blow from the flashlight, and was already dead when she was "strangled to death."

If what the Ramseys say is true-- that they came downstairs that morning, totally innocent and unaware, and found a ransom note-- then it would be HIGHLY unlikely that it would be Patsy to make that 911 call. John was the ultimate alpha male in every other area of his life, but you're telling me he WOULDN'T take control of this situation, grab the phone, and call the police himself? It's just totally out of character, for him and for the vast majority of male heads of families.

Here's my theory: They came home from the Whites' party and Burke was still hungry. Patsy set out some pineapple and tea for him, and instructed him to go to bed as soon as he was finished. She then took Jon Benet upstairs and put her in bed, went into her bedroom and packed for their trip, and, exhausted, went to bed with John without checking on Burke again. Jon Benet decided she wanted some food, too, but rather than disturb her parents, she simply went downstairs to get something for herself. Burke had just begun eating his pineapple, and since there was plenty left, Jon Benet snatched a piece from his bowl. Burke, tired and angry, grabbed the flashlight, chased after her, and hit her on the head.

When Burke realized he had seriously hurt Jon Benet, he dragged her into the basement to try to hide her and buy time. He took the train tracks and poked her with them to try to revive her, leaving the two marks. When he realized she was dead and could not be revived, he went upstairs to his bedroom, leaving the body in the basement. Patsy got up a few hours later to take Jon Benet to the bathroom to avoid her wetting the bed, and realized that her daughter was missing. She woke John up and they searched the house, finding Jon Benet's body in the basement. They confronted Burke, who claimed innocence, but they did not believe him. They sent him into his bedroom so that they could come up with a cover. John strangled Jon Benet's dead body in order to throw cops off the real trail. John then dictated the letter and Patsy wrote it. Then Patsy called the police. As she was talking to the dispatcher, Burke came downstairs. This flustered Patsy so much that she hung up the phone-- or at least thought she did. John sternly told Burke, "We're not talking to you," Patsy cried, "What did you do?", and Burke, still feigning ignorance, asked his parents, "What did you find?"

The end.

"They said she died from the blow from the flashlight, and was already dead when she was "strangled to death."

Did they explain why the autopsy report was wrong then?

"John strangled Jon Benet's dead body in order to throw cops off the real trail."

That's an unbelievably idiotic theory.

"'John strangled Jon Benet's dead body in order to throw cops off the real trail.' That's an unbelievably idiotic theory."

No, it's not. We are talking about two adults who are trying to convince law enforcement that this killing was too *elaborate* for a child to have conceived and committed. They wanted to make it look much more complicated than it actually was. The letter alone is proof of that.

Again, she didn't die from the blow. If your theory is correct, they were not covering up a killing, they were accelerating her death. THAT MAKES NO SENSE if Burke did this by accident.

No, it is r204. The whole thing is idiotic. Burke chasing her with a flashlight and then taking her downstairs...and his parents not absolutely enraged by this and just calling 911 instead of icing up and clamming up? come on! That fucking idiot Dr. Shill has somehow convinced everyone Burke did this and it makes no sense.

I don’t want to post it, but if you Google “JonBenet neck” you will see her throat photos from the autopsy. It is a bright reddish purple line from the garrote. If she was already dead, how did this mark occur???

The only way it sort of makes sense is if Burke was a total little psychopath and either struck and strangled her dead himself or helped one or both of his parents kill her. Mommy and Daddy then make a conscious decision to protect their murdering little psychopath (or their co-murderer), never getting him help or treatment, just crossing fingers and hoping he never kills again. And never tells anyone anything that might put their story into question. It's still a ridiculous stretch, but there's some logic to it.

If either of those parents came upon that child unconscious with a blow to the head, whether Burke did it by accident or on purpose, and there was even the slightest chance she was still alive, they'd call for help. They wouldn't put a garrote around her neck and finish the fucking job unless they were murderous psychos themselves and Burke just happened to get to her first. If they were worried about what would happen to Burke for hitting his sister so forcefully, they'd call their lawyers on the way to the hospital and get their story straight in the waiting room. These people kept THEMSELVES away from the police, they'd have no harder a time keeping their child away from them.

Did any of the family members ever take a lie detector test?

No r208, no disrespect, but you aren’t answering my question. The color of the wound indicates that her heart was still pumping blood when the garrote was tied. The reddish purple line is a hematoma. For the body to have a line where the garrote was means that blood was still moving in her veins. It would look different if her heart was not moving the blood when she was strangled. So she was still breathing after the head blood. It may have been “death throe” breathing, but the expert consensus seems to be that she did not die immediately after that blow. If you’d care to post links that show otherwise, I’d love to see it.

R210, I've repeatedly pointed out she died from the strangulation, not the blow to the head. It's R202/R204 who insists otherwise.

It's absolutely ridiculous to think that in response to Burke hitting his sister, her parents would strangle her to death to protect him.

I apologize, I mislabeled who I was talking to. So....you think a little boy knew how to make and use a garrote? Okay....

Are you still talking to me? I suppose it's theoretically possible, but off the charts unlikely.

If Burke were capable of this kind of murder at such a young age, it's also off the charts unlikely that he'd exhibit no signs of this kind of pathology ever again. Has there ever even been a peep about him engaging in extreme violent or disturbing behavior after this?

It's just not feasible that Burke did this. Once you rule out an intruder, only Patsy and/or John make sense.

Yikes, I’m losing it r213. I’m sorry. The JB threads are always a favorite so I check them regularly, but I’m so tired that I’m not reading well. It’s time for my night-nights.

"Again, she didn't die from the blow."

Then why does every expert in the CBS show, including Dr. Werner Spitz and Dr. Henry Lee, say she did? These aren't a bunch of yahoos; they are highly respected forensic experts.

AGAIN, DID THEY EXPLAIN WHY THEY THINK THE AUTOPSY WAS WRONG?

"Cause of death of this six year old female is asphyxia by strangulation associated with craniocerebral trauma."

Among other signs that she was alive when strangled, she had signs of pinpoint petechial hemorrhages (burst capillaries in the eyes) which is a direct result of asphyxiation. That would not happen if she were already dead.

Oh for fucks sake. I just watched the beginning of Part 2 at R81. They completely ignore the conclusions of the autopsy report. They go right from she had a skull fracture to the flashlight could have caused it to the skull fracture killed her.

Ridiculous.

[quote]Wouldn’t the force (that was reported to knock over a 300 pound man) be strong enough to rupture the skin?

You need to move away from that statement of a force able to knock over a 300 pound man. First, that's not in the autopsy report, and even if that were in the report (it isn't), that doesn't mean the force would rupture the skin. It simply says that it would simply topple a man of that size.

Now, I've seen the autopsy pics, and I can link them. JB does not have any open head wounds. The damage was internal -- intracranal, which is always the worse.

I think the obvious thing was that Burke got mad at JB for eating the pineapple. He chased her in the basement and "whoops" whacked her on the head. He used his knot making skills on JB and strangled her to death.

Patsy wakes up to see JB missing. She is screaming to him "where is my baby?" (Burkes' recollection)

The parents eventually find her.

Patsy, so distraught to even disguise her handwriting, writes the note.

John sends psycho Burke to the neighbors after they called the police.

Lou Smit believes the ransom note was written prior to the murder.

19:42 @ the above video...not sure why it starts at the beginning when I specified 19:42 in the link.

"I think the obvious thing was that Burke got mad at JB for eating the pineapple."

There's nothing remotely obvious about that.

John Ramsey did it.

I would do anything and EVERYTHING for him! And keep all his secrets as well! Call me maybe?

R218, I posted that statement. I use it because I don’t think the average Joe, when they read the original autopsy, understand the way that type of injury would occur, so I think that statement helps the average person understand the tremendous force and velocity required to make that type of injury. That quote is from Cyril Wecht. But your point is taken and you are correct, it is not sourced from the original report.

What about the marks on JBR that compared closely to that of the contact from a stun gun? And while the marks do indeed compare to the marks a stun gun would leave, did anyone examine the skin damage to determine if it had been burned or bruised?

Yes r226, and if you keep digging you will see that those marks were eventually shown to be a perfect match (down to the fraction of a millimeter) of a train track edge. They could never find a perfect stun gun match because it wasn’t a stun gun. You need to familiarize yourself with Lou Smit’s work, and then know it’s all bullshit,

Why don't you link the train track thing r227? Who exactly says this?

That’s actually a great question r228 lolol. I’m trying to remember where I first heard that one, it was probably 8 - 10 years ago. I’ll see if I can find it.

Was Jon pulling a train? Whore!

HA. Maybe.

Girls, girls--there's enough pineapple for the BOTH of you!

I thought this was resolved. The FBI and state corner ruled it was accident, the little girl fall down the stairs. I know it is still sad.

It is now illegal to sell evidence to the media and etc., which is what the local detectives did. They were more interested in hanging a innocent family for money and fame than doing their job.

Um, NO r233.

The Jonbenet committed suicide troll was funnier.

JonBenet tumbled down the steps? That’s a first.

r233 What? where did you hear that the "corner" and FBI said she fell down the steps?

JonBenet! Put that pineapple down! Pineapple is for winners, not second runners-up!

What do second runners up get mommy?

Don’t you sass me, Missy!

R228, the train track thing was in the Kolar book, if I recall correctly.

Such a big dick!

The experts in the CBS show that is linked here said that the train track matched the marks exactly. Someone was poking at her, trying to revive her.

Everyone knows all hospitals have train tracks to revive children.

Or......r243, she was simply laying on the floor of the basement? In the train room?

I want his spermies

God doesn't like little tramps.

To those who say she died from the head wound as opposed to the strangling, how do you reconcile that with the scratches on her neck indicating she was defensively pulling at the garrote?

Link please r248. Not pictures, the autopsy.

I'm surprised Burke hasn't transitioned yet. I can see him doing the whole MTF beauty-queen thing in a blonde wig and trying to recapture the glory of certain old photos. He's on the spectrum, so it could happen. The real test would be what Daddy might do in response.

"Everyone knows all hospitals have train tracks to revive children."

Please tell me you're not this stupid. Her body was in a basement room with a train set, and someone poked at it with a partial piece of the track. And, gee, who would be likely to do that in such a situation? An adult? No. A CHILD.

No one has mentioned yet that it wasn’t just a bowl of pineapple that was found sitting on the counter. It was a bowl of pineapple AND MILK.

Grls Girls Girls Girls!

The one thing we can all agree on. The police fucked this up SO bad and barring a concrete confession, nobody's going to jail for it ever.

R252. I think tea was also served at that late night Christmas snack

Burke looks exactly like his mother.

I still have never decided who killed the girl. Dad, Mom, Brother, could have been any of them. For sure they all conspired to cover it up afterwards and I never believed that Burke slept through all those people and commotion in the house that morning. No way.

I think Alfred Hitchcock's Birds did it.

R256. I wad browsing through John and Patsy’s book earlier this evening and thought the same thing

Patsy finds a note and starts running up and down the steps screaming. John comes downstairs in his underwear and starts searching for JonBenét....

The house was huge, didn't you see the reconstruction?

Meh, Burke might not have slept through it but he may very well have stayed tucked away in his room oblivious to a lot of it. Can you imagine how many times that kid must have woken up to his mother screaming about *something*? He probably just put the pillow over his head and tried to go back to sleep.

I saw the CBS special when it first aired, so forgive my lack of specificity, but the expert medical examiner said that the blow to the head would have slowed her body down to the point that they would have thought she was dead.

Here's the version of what happened from the CBS special:

The team ruled out the idea of an intruder because the purported point of entry is shown in a photograph to contain an old, undisturbed cobweb. The window is too small to have entered without disturbing the web, the experts believe.

So, what points to Burke?

The experts noted some idiosyncrasies in Burke’s attitude as they reviewed video interviews with the then-nine-year-old boy, who showed no visible worry or trauma about his sister’s death, despite all that had happened. He also physically demonstrated how his sister might have been murdered, either with a knife or a hammer to the head. (The experts believe JonBenét was killed by blunt force, a flashlight to the head.) A former friend of the Ramsey family also told the team that Burke had seemed jealous of all the attention his little sister was receiving—he had a “chip on his shoulder”—and that he had hit JonBenét with a golf club about a year and a half before the murder. The friend said Patsy Ramsey told her he had had a temper tantrum, although on-screen text quotes John Ramsey as saying the incident was an accident.

A piece of pineapple was found in JonBenét’s stomach during her autopsy. The night of the murder, the experts believe, Burke made himself a snack of pineapple with milk, and tea. His fingerprints were found on a bowl, and the teacup next to it. JonBenét, the experts believed, snatched a piece of the fruit (reportedly one of her favorite desserts) directly from the bowl with her fingers, leaving no prints. This, the experts believe, catalyzed the grisly events that followed. Their best hypothesis: Burke hit JonBenét on the head with the flashlight, just as he had with the golf club a year before—but this time, he accidentally killed her.

John and Patsy, the experts believe, then covered for Burke.

Well, some of us aren’t fans of that production r260. We can squabble forever about it, but the bottom line is that for the Burke Did It theory to work, at least one parent had to come upon an injured JonBenet — she wasn’t cold so even if her breathing was shallow, she would not have felt dead to the touch) and yet that parent inexplicably does not call 911 for help immediately. That does *not* make any sense. At all. The kid was down and out cold, but wouldn’t have felt like a dead body, but no call for help????? That is the Bug Reason that theory fails for me. Furthermore, I’m still waiting for a BDI poster to explain why they would have gone through all that elaborate staging and yet not dumped the body elsewhere? Wouldn’t it have made sense to get rid of the body first, *then* call 911? Why leave the body in the house??????? That makes no sense. So the entire BDI theory falls apart for me.

And you can’t say maybe the parent came in and found it hours later when she was already dead — because then we wouldn’t see the hematoma on her neck from the garrote.

I feel like we will learn more details and even learn who the killer is/was once one or more suspects die.

If BDI, I find it difficult to believe he never slipped up and said too much to a friend, therapist, teacher, partner, etc. And if he did do it, surely he’d be smart enough NOT to go on the Dr. Phil Show. I understand sociopaths / narcissists feeling invincible, but he doesn’t strike me as having either diagnosis.

Also, if he did it why would he even sue CBS in a major lawsuit that he knows is untrue? Doesn't make sense.

I always found it interesting that Burke said he never read the ransom note.

It reminded me of OJ not asking how Nicole died when he first got the call.

[quote]Also, if he did it why would he even sue CBS in a major lawsuit that he knows is untrue? Doesn't make sense.

It wasn't a criminal case, so there was no investigation. It was a money grab in which he got something close to nothing.

R268, How do you know what the settlement was? I bet he got a nice chunk of change.

Check Celebrity Net Worth immediately. LOL.

R261 and that illustrates the problem with inductive reasoning perfectly.

I think he killed his sister and his parents protected him. How often does an older brother end up killing their younger sibling? It is very obvious what happened in this case, he had hurt her before.

I agree R270. Siblings killing siblings happen. The only thing that is different is that the parent covered it up for him.

There was tea alongside the pineapple and milk?

Would a 9 year old know how to make tea or take the time to make it?

Was milk in pineapple a favored recipe in the Ramsey home? Odd combination. Reminds me of something my brothers and I would concoct late at night and date each other to eat it. Was there milk in JBR’s stomach?

Was there ever a stalker theory? That perhaps JBR had been being stalked without the family knowing. Someone could have been enterin* the house for days, weeks, or months watching the family in a hiding place, learning the layout of the house. Said person could have been listening to their private conversations and this would have known the amount of the Christmas bonus. This does happen - people squatting in homes, attics, cars, etc. I listened to a podcast about it a while back. Didn’t a housekeeper wonder if her husband might have been involved - perhaps he made a copy of the housekeeper’s key.

[quote]Would a 9 year old know how to make tea or take the time to make it?

Yes, kids make stuff like hot chocolate and tea. I know I did.

[quote]Was milk in pineapple a favored recipe in the Ramsey home? Odd combination. Reminds me of something my brothers and I would concoct late at night and date each other to eat it. Was there milk in JBR’s stomach?

Probably nothing detectible, since she most likely scooped out a pineapple from Burke's bowl.

She was drinking a Pina Colada to calm her nerves.

I suppose it's worth pointing out, since the CBS special apparently didn't, that the small piece of partially digested maybe pineapple isn't the slam dunk piece of evidence some people think it is. First of all, from the autopsy report at R216:

"The stomach contains a small amount (8-11cc) of viscous to green to tan colored thick mucous material without particulate matter identified. The gastic mucosa is autolyzed but contains no areas of hemorrhage or ulceration. The yellow to light green-tan apparent vegetable or fruit material which may represent fragments of pineapple."

So it MAY have been pineapple. Now given there was pineapple in the house, it's very likely it was. But they were in another home having dinner with lots of other food as well.

And whatever it is, there's no precise way to say for sure how long she *must* have ingested it before death. It may have been 2 hours before, but it may have been longer or even shorter. There's too much variability both in individual rates and the effect of diet. It's hard for anyone to say without prior knowledge of the exact rate her body digested food, and just how much of whatever it was and what else she ate. For example, fatty foods tend to slow digestion overall, and this was Christmastime, so if she'd been eating a lot of fatty foods that day and prior, that may have had an impact. If she'd been eating a lot of fiber, it could have been much faster. The rough estimation of eating pineapple verses her time of death is based on the typical rate of absorption/digestion of pineapple, but that presumes 1) it was definitely pineapple and 2) she digested at the typical rate. If she was really blocked/slow, it's at least theoretically possible she ate the pineapple even before the family left their house for the dinner (although not very likely because whatever she ate for dinner was already past her stomach and was soft in her intestines).

That plus the time of death is not certain. The coroner did not have an estimate in the autopsy report. Neither is the exact time the Ramseys left the Christmas dinner to go home certain. The Ramsey's claim she was put to bed and last seen alive at 10, but of course that's not necessarily reliable. So even if you could say for sure she ate the pineapple 2 hours before death, there are other time variables that mean it's at least possible she ate some fruit/pineapple before leaving the dinner. No one could say for sure whether she ate pineapple at the dinner.

(Apparently Burke's lawsuit also made some reference to a later report that it wasn't just pineapple in her tract, it was evidence of a fruit cocktail mixture. I have no idea how reliable that is.)

In defense of Patsy - if a mother were writing the ransom note in the kitchen with the paper and pen kept in the kitchen drawers I believe it would be instinctive to put the bowl of pineapple in the sink, off the counter. It’s second nature to most moms to be clearing dishes and tidying countertops. If she had committed the crime I think the bowl would have been put away if the kitchen were otherwise orderly and everything in place.

[quote]So it MAY have been pineapple. Now given there was pineapple in the house, it's very likely it was. But they were in another home having dinner with lots of other food as well. And whatever it is, there's no precise way to say for sure how long she *must* have ingested it before death. It may have been 2 hours before, but it may have been longer or even shorter.

JonBenét’s body had entered advanced rigor mortis, which led investigators to conclude that the time of death was between 10:00 p.m. on December 25 and 6:00 a.m. on December 26; however because her remains had already begun to exhibit signs of decomposition by the time they were found, investigators believe that she died closer to 10:00 p.m. Christmas Day.

PLUS

Identifiable semi-digested food particle (i.e. THE PINEAPPLE) was found more commonly in those persons who died 0-2 hours after last meal, un-identifiable semi-digested food particle were found more commonly in those persons who died 2-6 hours after last meal and empty stomach were found more commonly in those persons who died more than 6 hours after last meal.

The head wound was a fatal one and would have eventually killed her but she was garroted to death before that happened.

I just cannot believe no one ever investigated Harlow Cuadra and Joseph Kerekes as possible suspects.

Where was OJ?

Here's what really happened

JBR) You were adequate but so tiny, Daddy's much bigger and more satisfying

BR) You bitch!

JBR) Help! Put down that garrotte and golf club.

Daddy was a much better kisser and used tongue!

Thump.

Damn you r283 for making me laugh!

R282. And damn you starting it!

You know, could just has easily been Jeffrey Dahmer that slipped in here that Christmas night.

Has anyone looked into the owl theory?

For the JBR experts: has there ever been a consensus on this: If anybody had called 911 after the head injury, would she have lived, died anyway, been disabled?

Our Patsy Ramsey poster is stale stale stale. John, you got lucky with the cancer thing, eh? Right when she lost her looks, phew!! Thought you’d never find this place. You know, you can throw out all kinds of names here, the Miss Marples eat that shit up. Just don’t talk shit about my Prez.

Is he wearing a rug?

I am pretty sure that the FBI got this wrong and random people on DL are getting this right.

R291 = John

I’m sorry r291, but did the FBI solve this case? What did I miss?

"Also, if he did it why would he even sue CBS in a major lawsuit that he knows is untrue? Doesn't make sense."

It makes perfect sense. He sued because he didn't want to be labeled a murderer. He might very well be one, but he doesn't want anyone to believe that he is.

"Was there ever a stalker theory? That perhaps JBR had been being stalked without the family knowing. Someone could have been enterin* the house for days, weeks, or months watching the family in a hiding place, learning the layout of the house. Said person could have been listening to their private conversations and this would have known the amount of the Christmas bonus. This does happen - people squatting in homes, attics, cars, etc. I listened to a podcast about it a while back. Didn’t a housekeeper wonder if her husband might have been involved - perhaps he made a copy of the housekeeper’s key."

There was never any evidence that the Ramseys were "stalked", or watched, or listened to, or that anyone was "squatting" in their home. If there was you can bet it would have been brought to light immediately.

Burke gave her the fatal head wound using the flashlight, dad did the strangulation to protect him (garroted rather than strangled indicates a personal association where you do not want to be identified and so kill from behind; leaves no prints and so was thought out), mom wrote the stupid note with the exact bonus amount. They did it together. The parents to protect the son.

Have any experts ever said what would have happened if she'd had medical attention? Could she have been saved? Would she have died anyway? Brain damage?

Eh, she would be doing porn if she lived. Pass.

Instagram influencer pushing fit teas.

Mother of a little pageant girl.

SINGLE mother of a little pageant girl...

R297, I do clearly remember experts saying years ago that she could not have been saved — at most, in a vegetative state, it was absolutely a fatal blow. But I couldn’t possibly remember who said that, but I always wondered that too which is why it jumped out at me.

How evil do you have to be to tie your dead daughter's neck to make it look like a stranger killed her?

Right. And then shove a paintbrush up her vagina???? What father does that or even has the idea? Oh, right, that kind of father. . .

But was she even sexually assaulted? The experts in the CBS documentary all said no.

There's been no real agreement on whether or not she was sexually abused. The experts tend to have different theories on that, especially those hired by the family, but there is evidence, including some odd findings in the autopsy and LOTS of trips to the family doctor for various possibly abuse related infections and the bed wetting.

Again, if Burke did it, they could have called an ambulance, called their doctor and had this swept under the rug as an accident. Finishing her off with a garrotte, calling the cops and every friend they know, getting media involved, that's ridiculous and no one would do that. And no fucking way would they send Burke off alone to the neighbors if he had just fatally assaulted his sister. And why would he be on the 911 call asking what's going on, wouldn't he know?

[quote]Again, if Burke did it, they could have called an ambulance, called their doctor and had this swept under the rug as an accident. Finishing her off with a garrotte, calling the cops and every friend they know, getting media involved, that's ridiculous and no one would do that.

There is a theory that Burke hit her and strangled her. Those knots were knots he learned in the Scouts. He even got a book on tying knots, because he was such a big fan. Plus, the paintbrush and string were small weapons to use to kill. It's more in line in what a child w/small hands would use.

[quote]And no fucking way would they send Burke off alone to the neighbors if he had just fatally assaulted his sister.

They waited until the next day to do that. They spent all night covering up his terrible crime. By the time the cops got there, JB was in advance rigor mortis.

[quote]And why would he be on the 911 call asking what's going on, wouldn't he know?

As far as we know, he could have been asking, because he thought they were calling the cops on his killing ass.

[quote]Burke gave her the fatal head wound using the flashlight, dad did the strangulation to protect him (garroted rather than strangled indicates a personal association where you do not want to be identified and so kill from behind; leaves no prints and so was thought out), mom wrote the stupid note with the exact bonus amount. They did it together. The parents to protect the son.

I don't think the parents harmed JB. They just covered up the crime by writing the note and lying. Keep in mind, Burke was a sick fuck, who smeared feces all over JB's room and in her food. During the investigation, they found his shit in smeared in her room and candy. According to one of the Ramsey's friend, he was very jealous of her and he always appeared to have a chip on his shoulder.

She was not sexually abused. Because this case isn't about sexual abuse. It's about an Aspie with a flashlight, some pineapple and a cover up.

If there was any abuse to her girl parts that came from Patsy forcing into that montage and riding that broom while performing songs from Wicked during the little Miss Alabama contest.

I thought they found DNA from someone in her panties?

r311

That means nothing. For instance, if you were to clean underneath your fingernails, there's a 33% chance you'll find DNA there that doesn't belong to anyone you know.

This is one of the problems, that's just coming to light, DNA like cell phones do not place you at the scene of the crime necessarily. They can, but not always. Just like Mitochondrial DNA. It was long thought to come only from the mother, not so, in some cases it can come from the father.

[quote]Has anyone looked into the owl theory?

Thank you.

Could very well have been the Tootsie Pop owl that killed my little girl.

Stupid ass owl, I like "chocolate" too much to wait for 3 licks

Plus, it only took me one good hit to get to the center of JB's little head

R308, Do you just pull stuff out of thin air? Where's the evidence that Burke Ramsey " got a book on tying knots, because he was such a big fan."?

When they tested random panties from the store they also found similar trace amounts of random mixed DNA like on the Jon Bonet pair, its meaningless, probably from them being boxed and handled.

Is this guy a smug prick or is it just me?

[quote]garroted rather than strangled indicates a personal association where you do not want to be identified and so kill from behind;

Don’t want to be identified by who? The person you’re killing?

I had never heard of this story before reading this other thread but here is an example of two 10 year olds bashing in the head of a 2 year old and sticking things up his butt. It is not out of the question that Burke was capable of not only hitting jonbenet but also strangling her and shoving a paint brush up her vagina. Kids do weird disturbing shit sometimes for no apparent reason.

Not even remotely similar r319, follie a deux and peer pressure and all that. Not like bashing your sister's brains in.

The Burke Did It folks say he learned knots in Boy Scouts — but never once do they talk about John knowing knots from being in the fucking NAVY.

The original autopsy report does not make a definitive statement on prior sexual abuse BUT....if you read about the condition of her vaginal wall, it is clear he is saying that it was a prior tissue inflammation and that her hymen was partially broken in the exact spot where an index finger of a right handed individual would insert their finger — I believe “7 o’ clock” was the reference. All forensic pathologists have agreed the tissue points to prior activity in her vaginal canal (though it was likely touched within two weeks prior to her death so the tissue was healing), the only pathologists who have clouded this issue were brought in by the Ramseys. She had a partially broken hymen, tissue inflammation like it had been previously rubbed, and an object had been inserted. If THAT isn’t enough to convince you she was sexually abused, nothing ever will be.

The biggest thing with this case, more than any other I can even think of, is that every bit of evidence must be stacked up against all the others. When you line up all the pieces together, it is *obvious* she was sexually abused. If she was JUST in beauty pageants, or JUST a bed-wetter, or JUST a murder victim with no sexual violence, then maybe you could build a case that she was not sexually abused. But put all these things in same basket, they *all* point to sexual abuse.

Did she do anal?

If Burke did it, how is it that there have never been any odd or unusual behaviors reported since the murder? You’d think such childhood psychopathy would continue into adulthood.

Smearing feces. Tying knots,unusual pooping patterns, sexual misconduct, emotional disconnect, jealousy, rage, manipulation - no reports of any of these behaviors since the night of JBR’s death.

Do you really think people who might know would go on Twitter or elsewhere to report that Burke smeared poo on them, if he did it? Especially since the reports were his doing this in the home, it's not likely to be made public knowledge if it continued. It's not like his friends and family would put out a press release about Burke as a young man producing poo-stained garroted knots, having anger issues, and being weird sexually over the years, even if all was happening after the murder. People this rich keep their secrets hidden well.

Burke didn't seem upset or show sadness right after JonBenet was killed because he's a sociopath and has no genuine emotions. That would also allow him to not feel guilt or remorse for killing her. Also it has been stated in several books that even though Burke was skinny and frail looking he was very athletic and active in sports. He was stronger than he looked.

I mean any reasonable investigator would have immediatly looked at the grandmother as the prime suspect.

It is always the dried-up grandma.

JB's got the 'come-hither' look down like a champ! You go, girl!

[quote]Burke was skinny and frail looking he was very athletic and active in sports

Yeah, soccer, tennis, long distance running, the sports real men don't do.

Real men give a swift beat down to little whores who think they can just steal pineapple

Someone send this to Boulder police

"If Burke did it, how is it that there have never been any odd or unusual behaviors reported since the murder?"

Because you can bet John and Patsy Ramsey did a very thorough job of keeping him under wraps after the murder, isolating him and keeping a close watch on him. And as he grew older he probably realized that the best thing for him would be to keep as low a profile as possible. I"m sure he's behaved oddly or inappropriately since his sister's murder, it's just not been reported. And look at him in that interview he did with Dr. Phil; it's obviously he's very mentally disturbed. He's always been that way. His sister's murder didn't suddenly make him a weirdo. He always had something wrong with him; smearing feces around , whacking his littler sister with a gold club...that is certainly abnormal behavior. And that happened BEFORE the murder. He was fucked in the head even then.

IF he did it when he was 9, would he face any legal consequences now if he confessed or if incontrovertible evidence were found (i.e., video or DNA)? He wouldn't have been charged as an adult back then, so what could they charge him with now?

No, R332, he’d be charged as a juvenile since that he was a juvenile when the crime was committed. A similar thing occurred in the Skakel/Moxley case.

Think of it this way: a 16 year old commits a murder. The majority age is 17 to be charged as an adult. A prosecutor could hold off on pressing charges until the person turns 17 to ensure he’s tried as an adult.

On the other thread, someone said a 9-year-old couldn't be charged in Colorado for any crime. Seems to be correct: "On the other hand, a child under 10 can’t be tried for criminal or juvenile delinquency offenses." Found this on more than one site. That doesn't mean he couldn't have been committed to a home for child murderers, I suppose.

What's the statute of limitations for pooping on a box of chocolate covered cherries?

Why has everyone jumped to the conclusion that another person was playing with her vagina? Kids start masturbating and exploring, it could have been here sticking paint brushes in there. Call me crazy, but do you think no 6 year old girl in the history of the world has ever explored her private parts on her own? JB was forced into a sexual/adult role with the pageants she may have matured early in exploring her body and may have been upset that she was wetting the bed and touched herself. Maybe she was masturbating with the paint brushes in the basement thinking her parents were in bed and Patsy went looking for her, freaked out when she saw her "getting freaky" and that's when Patsy lost her shit.

r331 He's mentally disturbed because his fucking parents are whack jobs who murdered his sister and his dad has always been complicit in letting people think it was him that killed his sister.

R336 solved the case! JB was masturbating and engaging in auto-asphyxiation the night of Dec 25th and unfortunately took it too far. Mom & dad wrote the ransom letter to save face.

"He's mentally disturbed because his fucking parents are whack jobs who murdered his sister and his dad has always been complicit in letting people think it was him that killed his sister."

He was mentally disturbed BEFORE his sister's murder. Which is one reason why he's always been a suspect. It does seem plausible. He probably hated her.

I wonder if being mentally disturbed ran in the family. Pasty might have had the gene and been mentally disturbed and no one noticed since she was a beauty queen and that sort of behavior often is rewarded and takes one right to the top of the pageant circuit. What the pageant circuit is looking for is an attractive, submissive, yet vaguely mentally-ill young woman ready to give it her all. The sort of mental illness that makes a pretty girl into a beauty queen could make a pretty boy into a sister-fucking head basher with a scat fetish.

He is very cute, but he seems sort of "special."

[quote]Do you just pull stuff out of thin air? Where's the evidence that Burke Ramsey " got a book on tying knots, because he was such a big fan."?

Why do you ASSume that I'm pulling things out of thin air? Is it because I blew away your flimsy fairy tale?

Please, Burke was the one who did this, and the parents were the ones who covered up the crime.

Here is my "out of thin air" proof that Burke knew how to tie knots.

Proof at the link.

R343, Proof of what?

^^^ Proof that he knew how to tie knots, dummy.

Read the article.

Talk about circumstantial evidence r345, who fucking cares if he knew how to tie knots?

You could post a picture of Burke killing Jonbenet and the Burke defenders here would be like "so? what does THAT prove?"

R343, and what about John being in the Navy and the knots that are part of their training? Your thoughts on that?

No r347, this is not like OJ or Michael Jackson defenders, we have nothing to gain and no dog in this race, it just seems ridiculous the fantasy spun about a rich kid flipping the fuck out about pineapple.

Who knows if it was Burke, Patsy, John or some combination.

It was the family, and it is a murder they all covered up.

Strangest story offshoot to the Jon Benet saga -- John Ramsey and Natalee Holloway's mother dated for a period of time.

But as a kid he couldn't really be complicit in a coverup r351, it's the parents not him.

R345, I read the article too. It's pretty poor proof. "Burke likes to go sailing" doesn't equal good at tying knots. "Burke being in the Scouts" doesn't equal being good at tying knots.

Brian Scott, the guy who was the Ramey's gardener/landscaper spoke of Burke Ramsey. He said:

The neighborhood kids would come by from time to time. Jon Benet seemed to socialize with them just fine. Her brother, Burke, was three years older. He almost never said a word to me. Just played by himself in the backyard, completely occupied with his own projects. Next to the sandbox and swing, in the pea gravel area, he dug a system of canals. The he put a hose on top of the slide. The water poured down and spread perfectly throughout the elaborate waterway.

"Someday you're going to be an engineer?" I asked him.

"No," he said. Just a single word: no.

He always seemed to play alone.

r355 That sounds about right, isn't the male Jenner spawn content to stay out of the limelight as his mom pushes his whore sisters into it?

[quote]He always seemed to play alone.

Now, he lives and works alone in the boonies. I guess John is trying to prevent another crime by keeping him away from the unsuspecting public.

Now he is richer than daddy

I didn't rai$$$e no dummy. Congrat$$$$$ Burke!

John knew immediately that he had to cover up Burke's murder of Jon Benet.

John had already lost one daughter. Now losing another, that was going to be bad for his business. Losing one child is a tragedy, losing 2 starts to look like a trend.

God what loons some of you are.

R358 How is he richer than John?