Is “Crazy For You” Madonnas best song?

It’s a very simple song.

Not the best but one of her best songs with "Borderline" and "Lucky Star"

It’s fine, but Like a Prayer is her best song.

Borderline was so good

I thought "Like a Prayer" sucked. I was never a fan of Madonna but I found a few of her songs listenable: "Crazy for You", "Live To Tell", and "Open Your Heart" are the only ones by her that I could stand.

"Papa don't preach", "Vogue", "Like a prayer"

This one was fabulous

Like a prayer

"Like a virgin" sounds good

I love Like A Virgin and she looks so pretty in the video for it.

Like a Whore is her most authentic song.

For me, it’s in her top 5.

La Isla Bonita and Holiday are the oldie songs that still get played on adult contemporary radio.

Ghosttown is an underappreciated gem.

R13 I love Ghosttown.

I hear Holiday, La Isla Bonita, Borderline, Like a Prayer, Lucky Star all the time on Contemporary radio. Crazy For You comes on here and there too, usually at night on Lite FM stations.

I still remember how controversial her Like a Virgin performance was on the VMAs. Made headlines and shot her to international superstardom.

What’s funny is how tame it is but in 1984 it was seen as outrageous

Living For Love is also under appreciated

"American Life" is on the May 2003 Gap In-Store Playlist!

Like a Bitch is my fave

“Crazy for You”, followed closely by “Live to Tell”

R19, you have very beige taste.

Borderline.

Nuh-uh, it's "Angel."

"Vogue" and "Hung Up" are her best.

Love Don’t Live Here Anymore

Bedtime Story

Justify My Love

Physical Attraction

Express Yourself

I Want You

Like a Prayer is probably her best. Only I can't stand listening to her sing it. I do love the Glee version, though.

For me it's Bad Girl, Rain, Cherish, Justify My Love, Express Yourself, Take a Bow

Vogue

Papa don't preach

Like A Prayer, Live To Tell, Ray of Light.

A thread like this reminds us of the many fantastic, well-crafted songs in her repertoire, and in such a range of styles and influences. She really is a great pop artist.

My ex-BF considers it one of "our" songs, so I love it. My late Mom HATED Madonna, but we'd be out driving around a bit, and a Madonna song would come up on the radio, and she'd almost always love it. I'd wait until after the song had ended to remind her it was a Madonna song. Madonna has managed to develop (I'm not a hep cat) a "deep song catalog". Many, many great songs over the years. I've even seen recordings of her singing some of her best songs acapella, more recently, even though people always claim she can't sing.

R31 you inspired me just now to listen to her sing "Vogue" acapella. It's not bad, but soooo breathy. Was she the one who started all this breathiness we hear from female singers these days?

We love to hate on her and I have played my part but being honest Madonna is a great songwriter. The guy who wrote Live To Tell with her has a video about how good she is with lyrics and melody. He said she almost always does a song in one take, good or not. And she can definitely sing. She carried an entire movie on her voice alone. She lacks control and is an undisciplined singer which is so crazy as she micro-manages every aspect of everything else. Her brother even said she wouldn't do proper vocal warmups wanting to just got out and sing whatever happened. She got a tab more disciplined when she blew out her voice on Blond Ambition.

Crazy For You was the first song where you could tell she had an actual voice. And you feel her emotion when she sings it.

The “Glee” version? Gross, R25.

(The “Glee” tribute to Madonna was such a waste. With access to her entire catalogue, they waste a scene on “4 Minutes,” one of her worst singles ever? Where her vocals barely register alongside Justin Timberlake’s and Timbaland’s? Ooh, they had Curt sing the Madonna part and Mercedes sing the Justin Timberlake part. How edgy!)

My baby's got a SECRET...

Hmm, I like a lot of her songs, I am going to go with album tracks

Burnin' Up from her debut (I don't think this was a single, but I know it had a video)

Shoo-Be-Doo from Like a Virgin

Dear Jessie from Like a Prayer because it is so out of character

Skin from Ray of Light (my favorite song from that album)

Paradise (Not for Me) from Music

I also love The Beast Within remix of Justify My Love with the middle eastern music as she reads from the book of Revelation

Oh, and the version of Like a Virgin that she did on the Blonde Ambition tour, also with middle eastern instrumentation

Bedtime Story is my favorite Madonna song by far. I do like Crazy for You a lot, as well as Take a Bow, You’ll See, Get Together, Frozen, La Isla Bonita, Like a Prayer, Cherish, Vogue, Sky Fits Heaven, Nothing Really Matters, True Blue, Joan of Arc.

I don’t consider her a “great” musical artist because she’s not really a musician and at their best, her lyrics are...not totally juvenile—but among strictly pop artists, she is one of the greatest.

There is a youtube vid of her singing ROL. You can hear the music in her headphones and she stops at one point because she couldn't hear something. She sang it on point. It was impressive.

I remember when she first came out, the songs were fun but her voice was cartoonish, a joke. I thought she'd be a flash in the pan. She really blossomed, though. As I recall, there was a certain turning point when she took up with Sean Penn; it gave her a little Hollywood cred. "True Blue" came out around that time, and was a richer showcase for her talents.

No. It is not her best song. Nor is it one of her best songs. It isn't even one of her best ballads.

She is a musician. Again, I've taken part in downing her here. It's fun but she played guitar, drums and keyboard before she was famous. She wrote a lot of songs before she was famous. She had a lot of raw natural talent. One of her early friends, who turned on her, said she just stood up when writing Into The Groove when she couldn't think of anything, and sang "Live out your fantasy here with me....." out of the blue. I read a book on her called Like An Icon where many, many songwriters and musicians who have written with her sing her praises about her songwriting talent. She has a truly, stunning collection of varied musical styles of songs she wrote. She has also credibly sung almost all styles of music. Not bad for someone who "can't sing" which I always thought that was just something people said but didn't believe. Sorry, I can be a huge detractor but she can sing.

R32, One of the problems with Madonna is that she started out primarily as a dancer (and drummer). The singing was secondary. Then, her live shows expected her to perform elaborately choreographed routines. It was only natural that people would end up out of breath. So, it wasn't just Madonna, but anyone who came after her: Janet, Britney, etc. Madonna gets criticized for using backing tracks for her shows, but it's still her voice that's being used for the backing tracks. They still have the flat Michigan accent. When she was recording songs for 'Dick Tracy' and 'Evita', she complained (a lot) about all the work that went into them. She spent many hours in vocal lessons, but she really strengthened her voice, and broadened her range. She's gotten more comfortable with her own voice, after all that, and now sings acapella fairly frequently, and she's really not bad. It's just honest and direct when she does.

Love Ray of Light, Secret, Cherish, Take a Bow.

This Used to Be My Playground and Live to Tell.

I recall her once saying that the song she most wished she'd never recorded was Material Girl.

r42 Her La Vie En Rose from Montreal 2nd night was stunning! Like wow. The crowd gave her an extended standing ovation.

Thing is, there are a ton of singers were studio magic doesn't work because they don't have anything to work with. Madonna does. Britney and many others have never really sounded "good" on record. Madonna has. She has a voice. And when she is on she is on. Like her 1991 Oscar performance. Or her Oprah ROL performance even with the annoying reverb. Her Lament (from Evita) from her 2005 tour. Her voice was strong. I guess I could link it but I'm gonna be lazy.

Ray of Light is probably her most sophisticated song and the video is very artistic. I think it is based on Koyanaskaski or something like that. Some Russian or Polish film or filmmaker we discussed in film class but I didn't pay enough attention to to remember.

Burning Up is great.

r42 She did some early recordings sing Everybody where she was spot on vocally. No out of breathe because she wasn't doing a lot of dancing. Even during Who's That Girl tour, where her dancing was insane, early recordings popping up (before her voice was worn by the time they filmed the DVD) she sounds great even dancing her ass off. Voice was crystal clear but a little out of breath.

Everybody was her first single to make the dance charts.

As a kid I somehow got a copy of Billboard magazine that I saved. Years later I found it and on the back cover was an ad praising Madonna for hitting #1 or whatever on the dance charts and then the record company wrote "A Star is Born"

and one was. Damn I wish I still had that magazine. It may be in a box in my parents attic.

DL loves to drag her, but we also need to admit that she's a truly talented artist, who is going to leave behind a great legacy. Her songs are the songs of my whole adult life.

R46 I’m curious what makes you say “Ray of Light” is her most sophisticated song. In what way(s)?

We do drag her and I do but I'm really started to get into her discography (I'm early/mid 30's) and I'm impressed. She is amazing. She takes real risks, like potentially career ending risks all the time. All the time. And, I was shocked by this, I didn't find her an attention whore. She rarely made appearances at awards shows, even when nominated, and didn't do a lot of late night appearances. She was rarely seen outside her work. Not what I expected. For all the "media manipulation" she rarely made appearances from what I've seen. She wasn't everywhere. She is maddening sometimes. But her discography is fucking second to none.

“NO!”, R32!

I don't think Madonna is a great artist in terms of writing songs. She's brilliant at picking hits that others wrote for her. She's brilliant at marketing. She's brilliant at having her finger on the pulse (or she was). Frankly, she would have made one helluva music executive. If her own ego could ever get out of the way. It's too bad she hates Gaga. With Madonna's street smarts and over all savviness and Gaga's actual musical/singing talent? They could've made some great music together.

OK, I'm going to go out on a limb. When 'Justify My Love' first came out as a single, it was just a notorious, rather dirty song that many of us weren't allowed to here. It was only later that I watched it performed on one of her tours. Lenny Kravitz's voice is so seductive. The mix of erotica and formalism all makes perfect sense in a live performance.

r54 Oh just stop right there. Gaga obvious talent? Gags is an atrocious songwriter. When RedOne left her, her music went to shit fast. Madonna had multiple co-writers, who all said SHE wrote the lyrics and melody, and her quality never suffered. Gags singing is ehhhh. I can't stand her voice. To each his own. But you showed ur hand with the gags comment. Fuck you. Read Like An Icon and you will see EVERY collaborator with Madonna said she is musically gifted in the songwriting department. Nile Rodgers, who has worked with HUGE talents, said she was the greatest artist he has ever worked with. She doesn't "pick" the best songs or collaborators, she is a true collaborator. They give her credit so fuck off with those tired talking points. You sound like a deplorable.

I guess musically r51 it just seems very intricate and the sound of it all and the lyrics plus how they use her vocals. I don't know if I can really back up my claim too strongly. That is just what popped into my head.

I prefer Dress You Up, even if it is a bit monotonous. The male backup singers double as her backup dancers in the video.

r57 ROL was a risk for her for sure. She didn't write all the lyrics. It was a song already made and she changed some of them. This is why she is not listed first in songwriting credits. For what was on radio at the time, this was alien as fuck and she pulled it off.

I adore it and find it impossible to pick a "best song" from her, theres so many gems she has. Maybe easier to pick her "worst song".

Crazy For You started making people take notice she was an actual singer. Her best female vocal nom that year, in the company she was in, was staggering and showed she earned it. She also earned one the next year for Papa Don't Preach in equally prestigious company. That showed how she was truly viewed at the time. The "madonna cant sing" bullshit, which I have played into jokingly, was made from Clive Davis and others, who sought to paint her as opposite Whitney Houston as possible. It stuck. Even though we all have ears, it stuck. Her detractors went wild with it even as she proved over and over she could sing. I think Open Your Heart had one of her best vocal performances ever.

And it didn't help she had the worst vocal performances of her life during Blond Ambition when she blew out her voice just as the "Madonna cant sing" shit started percolating.

Glad to see some love for Ghosttown. It's really one of her best songs in a long time. Her vocals, her look in the video, the production, everything about it is excellent and it makes one wish Madonna would be more like that because she's mature and looks gorgeous.

Her best live performance for me was Hung Up at the Grammys.

The dancing and choreography are just so great.

and her stage presence is excellent. Shear charisma.

r64 She was better, vocally, at Live Earth. But the Grammy's showed some vocal power in the bridge.

R60 anything from Dick Tracey

I’ve been a fan from the beginning. I bought her debut album when it first came out in 1983. I was still in Catholic school, and this brazen woman with such a sexual image who went by the name Madonna, totally transfixed me.

My 10 Favorite Songs: 1) Burning Up 2) Open Your Heart 3) Express Youself 4) Vogue 5) Secret 6) La Isla Bonita 7) Justify My Love 8) Into the Groove 9) Music 10) Like a Prayer Honorable Mention: Frozen, Borderline, Crazy for You, Live to Tell, Bad Girl, Rain, Physical Attraction, Bedtime Story, Erotica, Papa Don’t Preach, Love Don’t Live Here Anymore, Rescue Me, Secret Garden, Deeper and Deeper, Get Together

5 Favorite Albums 1) Madonna 2) Like a Prayer 3) True Blue 4) Erotica 5) Bedtime Stories Honorable Mention: Like a Virgin; Ray of Light; Confessions on a Dancefloor; Music; Rebel Heart

The Girlie Show live down under had some great vocals from start to finish.

A lovely song.

Shocked more people haven’t mentioned “I’ll Remember”

A great pop track and ballad where her vocals sound amazing.

“Crazy For You” was the song that bumped “We Are the World” from its 4 weeks at #1...

After not being allowed to participate.

Madonna is such an inconsistent live performer, sometimes even within the same concert.

In Rebel Heart, she sounded great on certain songs (La Vie en Rose, True Blue, Rebel Heart, Who's That Girl) and absolute shit on others (Deeper and Deeper).

r70 People really loved "I'll Remember" didn't they? It was an unexpected hit. Madonna was taboo as fuck in my area due to the Sex book( i was like 9) and I'll remember was very popular.

I'll Remember was a smash during the period when she went on Letterman and uttered the f-word 13 times.

r72 YES. That is what is most frustrating about her. There were dates she sang la vie en rose so wonderfully, live, yet other dates sang it so off key. And she gave great, strong vocals on Love Don't Live Here Anymore on almost all dates, yet was off on other songs. That is what her brother was saying. She does not properly warm up for songs. Singing is muscle memory. She never likes to sing her songs as they were originally written. She rarely sings them more than once then records (according to her collaborators) so it is no surprise she is very inconsistent live. It is frustrating. She takes such care in making sure her choreography is on point but not her singing. Her brother said she just like to wing it, vocally.

R54, I don't think Madge hates Gaga. She's praised her in the past and actually attended her shows. However, she did get pissed seeing and hearing Gaga borrow from her playbook one to many times, especially as she was increasingly being squeezed out of radioplay while Gaga was being praised as an original and an innovator. Even Bette Midler called Gaga out for "stealing" her mermaid in a wheelchair act. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but not when it puts you out of business. But then, that's how the cycle goes. One rises, another falls. You either get out of the way or adapt. Madge should just continued to praise and evolve her style.

OP, yes, by far.

There's so many posts and threads that discount her significance, but when she dies it will be a cultural bomb like Prince and Michael Jackson. Every TV news channel will play hours of Madonna interviews. Celebrities will come out of the woodwork declaring themselves lifelong fans. Immaculate Collection will be number one on Itunes, and the rest of her albums will fill the top ten. All the really good gossip and Sex book outtakes will finally come out from the people who are afraid of being sued. At least one of her siblings, probably Paula, is likely working on a book to come out then.

I think this is one of the most beautiful songs Madonnas as written and recorded. And she made the damn thing a bonus track on the Japanese release of Ray of Light. I've rarely heard her voice so at ease and the song itself is just hypnotic. Madonna + Patrick Leonard + William Orbit was a winning formula for sure.

Everything went to crap after Ray Of Light.

She was so effortlessly cool in Desperately Seeking Susan. You could totally see why a bored NJ housewife, or anyone for that matter would be fascinated with her and be curious about her life.

They really lucked into it when they took a chance and hired her over experienced actresses. Sadly she never was able to replicate that kind of a great acting perfomance again. (and it drove Rosanna Arquette crazy that she Madonna stole her film. I always wonder how Rosanna Arquette felt about winning a BAFTA (the British Academy Award) for that film but as Best SUPPORTING Actress. Must have been sort of a compliment and an insult at the same time.) Arquette clearly had the lead role in the film but Madonna's star power eclipsed her.

r78 I guess that is where I am at. I am a younger gayling and I've participated in the Madonna bashing but I never believed it. Now I see so many do and I'm like hold up. She was a true original who was truly, truly a risk taker She put her career on the line many, many times. Countless. She has such great songs. She will go down as one of the greats no matter what she does now.

Love Don't Live Here Anymore is the song that I remember hearing for the first time driving around at night in suburban Michigan and amazed by her vocals.

My favs were Angel and Dress You Up.

That is the thing- I LOVE her vocals. LOVE them. Her voice is oftentimes fucking wonderful. It has a quality almost undefinable.

I thought Madonna did her best vocals in Evita.

It's interesting that she spent years training as a dancer, and always wanted to be an actress. She continuously attempts to be a movie star, but everyone is a fan of her music and that's what they want to hear from her. When Oprah asked her sister Paula if Madonna was always singing around the house, she said, "No."

Her vocals for Evita were fucking magnificent. They carried the movie and were beautiful.

The problem is she sounds fine on a record, but live she is very inconsistent. The dancing does not help. But no one would go to her concerts if she only sang.

Dear Jessie is her best

She does too aerobic style dancing during her concerts which hurts her vocals. Still, she has given some great vocals during concerts. Bitch can sing when she wants.

Vocally, her best concerts start to finish were Girlie Show and Reinvention? The one after American Life.

[quote]It's interesting that she spent years training as a dancer, and always wanted to be an actress.

I wonder if she ever trained much as an actress. I remember a Matt Lauer interview where he asked her how she wants to be described singer, actress, performer. And she said she thinks of herself as an actress first.

Yet she just never seemed to get the hang of it. You'd think she could have had the best teachers and coaches help her out but maybe her ego got in the way. It is a really odd case because she had such ease on camera in DS Susan and her videos.

It is just her dialogue in her other films that always seems off. Like she is thinking and second guessing what she says. She's like that in interviews sometimes. Always overthinking and trying to come up with the exact perfect word to say.

This is an elder-gay thread for sure. lol

Is she still fat like Janet?

Janet is not fat, she’s more beautiful than Madge will ever be!

She probably wanted a career as an actress but that was decades ago. She has a few films which will live on like A League of Thier Own, Evita, Dick Tracey, Desperately Seeking Susan. Her legacy is music in every way, shape and form.

The anti-Madonna contingent, which I was one, needs to give it a rest. I mean, it was fun for awhile but I'm gonna give credit where credit is due. No one is taking away her achievements.

The "Justify My Love" video was controversial at the time. I remember not being able to buy it on VHS at Turtle's without parental consent.

Rain was always one of my favorite songs. Open Your Heart, Who's That Girl, and Into the Groove are also good.

Rain

Love “Bad Girl”, the video was brilliant.

I think after DSS and superstardom, she became too self-conscious with her acting. With all eyes on her and a lot riding on her success (and too many wanting her to fail), she became too afraid to relinquish control--of her emotional inhibitions and to her directors. In DSS, you see an effortless, care-free, and natural Madonna. In her other films, there is a stiffness and uneasiness about her. And as R93 pointed out, perhaps a bit of second-guessing.

R94 fascinating and insightful contribution. And you wonder why there aren't daily, hand-holding threads addressed to "Non Elder Gays"

r101 Oh 100% correct. She gave a great performance in Dangerous Game. The director was nuts and pushed her. Penny M was someone she trusted. I think with M, it was all about trust. She didn't trust many people. If she trusted you, you got a great performance. But it wasn't enough. She had the best music career and still has. Be happy with that.

How could I forget Material Girl? Loved that video too!

I think when Madonna started talking British, it ended her acting career. Next Big Thing, anyone?

It must be interesting to know someone growing up who had no musical inclination, and then they go on to be this legendary singer with more than fifty top 10 songs.

R106 That's me. I am 33 and discovering her. So far, I am in love. She is not perfect, who is, but she is a great songwriter and can sing. And has great songs. Period. She's imperfect but damn, she is fucking interesting.

In the 90s she tried to become a sex siren on screen. I thought it was interesting to read how she saw Last Exit to Brooklyn and hired the director for Body of Evidence. She clearly wanted him to do for her what he did for/with Jennifer Jason Leigh.

Then post-Basic Instinct she used to make derogatory comments about Sharon Stone. Sharon Stone then said in interview something like "I don't know what that woman has against me." The critic said it is because you gave the performance in Basic Instinct that she wanted to give.

It makes sense. I wonder if she tested for Basic Instinct or would even audition at that point in her career.

She became so interested in the shock value in the 90s. I wonder how she'd have done in a comedy. (I know Who's that Girl......how they ever let her talk like that is a mystery.) I wonder how she'd have been in Marisa Tomei's role in My Cousin Vinny.

but then again those roles in Basic Instinct and My Cousin Vinny aren't starring parts.

I always thought Dress You Up was a very hot song

r108 She defies roles like that. She needs a strong director which says she was never going to be an actress. You cannot have a great director everytime.

Her career is over. Her lack of talent caught up with her. Now she pushes face cream. lol

R111 time to put on your big-boy pants and move past the fifth grade girl sign-off lol

r111 oh fuck off. Im a harsh critic but EVERY decent actress needs a good director.

Both r101 and r103 get it. The problem with Madonna is that she is too self-conscious when it comes to films.

Abel Ferrara got probably the best dramatic performance she ever gave in Dangerous Game, but Madonna HATED Ferrara, calling him a misogynist, etc. But I think she hated the fact that he had her improvise and in the film, you see her being her most natural onscreen (aside from DSS). One scene has her character revealing she was raped to Harvey Keitel, and one might assume it is Madonna discussing her own experience. I think she hates the fact that he had control of the film, and essentially, got a performance out of her that was too revealing and personal. And she hated that.

Madonna's choice of acting is to show up on set, recite her lines and leaves. She doens't want to dig deep. She doesn't want to improvise. So many of her performances suck because you can see her onscreen thinking about her next line will be. There's no spontaneity to her performances. She and Rupert had way too much control over poor John Schlesinger on The Next Best Thing. Such an indulgent film.

I think her performance in Evita works because Alan Parker had control over that film. There was no way he was going to let Madonna have control, and she knew that, too.

[quote]I think her performance in Evita works because Alan Parker had control over that film.

and also because it is all sung. she doesn't have to speak dialogue.

r110 I'm not sure what you mine by she defies roles like that

??

Madonna had that very short blonde butch haircut long before Katy Perry ever did. And it is Paris Hilton, after all, who to this very day is still wearing those fingerless gloves!

R108, "Body of Evidence" came out nine months after Basic Instinct and was dismissed as a "Basic Instinct" rip-off. Madonna was miffed with BI because at the time it was released, she was prepping for BoE and was putting together her infamous SEX book (released later that year), and the big splash Sharon Stone created with her bisexual blonde bombshell villainness stole her thunder.

r115 But it is something that she pulled it off even when she "can't sing" right? It blows a hole in that theory. She carried that film on her voice.

but she's terrible in Body of Evidence.

The interesting thing about that movie is how Madonna is so terrible and drags Willem Dafoe and everyone else down yet Julianne Moore manages to really shine in her supporting role. I always think that is interesting when one person manages to rise above the material and rest of the cast. Moore has done it in other films too like The Hand that Rocks the Cradle and especially the lame Psycho remake where everyone else (Vince Vaughn, Anne Heche) just suck but Moore is pretty fantastic. (and she takes the same dialogue, same camera angles and the whole shot by shot remake thing and still manages to put her own spin on the role.

Whereas Vera Miles was a plain standard nice girl from the 50s, Moore gives off a lesbian, mad at men vibe while saying the same words. Well done Julianne.

Madonna has too many good songs. Her catalog is super

There was no way that Madonna was going to compete with Sharon Stone, even if Body of Evidence came out first. Sharon is electric in Basic Instinct. She just dominates that film, whereas Madonna is stiff and sexless in Body of Evidence.

Bygones. Madge and Sharon made peace for amfAR.

'Rain' is an amazing song. Arguably Madonna's best.

Apart from "Live to Tell," I never really thought ballads were Madonna's strong suit. "Crazy for You" almost sounded like it could have been any no-name artist on a random soundtrack. But it was released in the midst of the Like a Virgin juggernaut, so of course it was a huge hit, and probably contributed to "Into the Groove" (a much better song) not getting a proper single release in the U.S., since there was such a glut of Madonna product at the time.

Madonna has kind of poisoned her legacy with her antics the last couple of years so I went from being a big fun to being put off by her.

As many of you have said above though, her appeal does encompass so many songs over the years. This thread has made me nostalgic.

Fav songs, beyond all the classics mentioned, in no particular order: ~ Gone - Music Album ~ Secret - Bedtime Stories Almbum ~ actually, pretty much all of Bedtime Stories Album - Easy Ride - American Life Album ~ Nothing Fails - American Life Album (I loooved this song while I was in grade 10 and hopelessly in love with a straight boy whose name I can’t remember and wish I could) ~ Erotica - Erotica Album ~ This Used to be Our Playground - A League of Their Own

I wish she’d stop with the grills and desperate feeling antics and just look her absolute best. With some dignity. She’s earned her place at the head of the table, she doesn’t need to do the things she’s been doing lately.

R58 Rocks!

In the movie, Desperately Seeking Susan, Madonna wore a jacket which had on the back of it a pyramid with an all-seeing eye on the top of it...something you see everywhere today, but who else was really doing it at the time (that is, in 1985)?

I have to give love for DEEPER & DEEPER!

The fact that she has so many good songs that everyone has a different list just shows what an icon she is. Thanks to everyones posts for making me realize that.

Glad to see the love for Rain here, that was always one of my favorites but it wasnt as big a hit because it was like the 4th or 5th song released from that album. So its kind of gotten lost and you dont hear it anymore. Dear Jessie is another one its nice to see appreciated.

No one cares about the Trump of Pop, Hagdonna anymore.

Rain is an amazing song. Obviously Erotica and Deeper and Deeper were always going to be the first two singles. I think Rain should have been the third single. Who knows if it would have done better. Bad Girl was a risky choice for third single since it wasn't a typical ballad and it was the height of the Sex book controversy and Body of Evidence had just tanked at the box office. Still, Rain did become a respectable hit, hitting Top 20.

For someone with so little talent as a singer she is very lucky she got so many great songs and worked with so many talented producers.

I liked her early stuff like Dress You Up, Material Girl, Holiday, La Isla Bonita as well as the more complex material she recorded later on like My Baby Got a Secret, Frozen, Human Nature, The Power of Goodbye, Hollywood or Rain.

Of course it also didn't hurt that she got some cool videas to go a long with the songs.

Loved the Bedtime Stories- Something To Remember era Madonna. She had basically put her clothes back on and was trying to get the lead in the Evita movie. Her sound was more soulful, R&B sounding. She’d had some vocal coaching and it paid off. Was just listening to Forbidden Love the other day.

Madonna even did the ponytail before Ariana Grande did. Blonde Ambition tour, anyone?

[quote]—Madonna Did It First

Sure, Jan.

Are we suddenly in the Bizarro Datalounge? Madonna is now a great singer and a great songwriter?

r137 I drag her here but I'm not stupid. She is a great songwriter and she does have a very good voice. It has been proven over and over. It became fun to drag her but it is tiresome now. She doesn't deserve when there are so many others who do. Like has been said, there is a whole book about her collaborators praising her musical ability, her songwriting, and her singing. What Madonna lacks in singing is she lacks control. She lacks an actual work ethic to maintain her voice. When she works on it she is very consistent like during her 2004 tour.

Patrick Leonard talking about writing Live to Tell with Madonna.

139 posts and no one mentions Miles Away? That song ROCKS.

Patrick goes in on her critics. He has worked with a lot of legendary songwriters and considers her among the best.

BC: Madonna is consistently attacked as a non-artist, someone who has somehow skated by for 35 years on sex and hype. How do you react when people scoff at her musicality, who don't see her as an artist?

PL: It pisses me off, to be honest. The people that do get credited as being real artists oftentimes are just “cool” and that gets interpreted as art. And these days, there are way too many talent-show winners, and they get called artists because they have some crazy-good voice. I have issues with these things, but I won’t go into it because I’ll probably have my house burned down by the people that make Auto-Tune. I can assure the world listening and looking at Madonna that they don’t have any reason to ever defend her or feel insecure about it and all I can say is I’ve worked with a lot of people — I’ve worked with a lot of people — and ... hard to be any better or more artistic than her.

There’s people with a more controlled voice — the word “better” is not fair, because how can you have a better voice than the voice that sang “Like a Prayer”? You just go through the list of singer-songwriters through the years — Neil Young, Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen, none of these people were “singers” But these are the ones that the most art came from. I think her lyrics were taken for granted all those years ago; you look at the individual lines and this is what people need to think about now, those statements she made all those years ago. I’m certain she’s still doing it.

My knee-jerk is to defend her always, but when I have the demos where she sang a song, having written it 15 minutes before, and it was a #1 record and remains valid 30 years later, who’s gonna tell me that’s not a real artist?

I think Angel is an under-rated gem..you never hear it on the radio. I also love Physical Attraction.

More Patrick on Madonna's songwriting and on her singing songs in one take-

BC: Your Instagram followers were thrilled by the teaser you posted of the “Where's the Party” demo.

PL: On that tape, she sings a verse and a chorus and a verse and then she goes, “How’s that?” I know it was the first time she sang it, but when I hear it it reminds of how really great she is as a writer. In the final version, there were no notes different, no lyrics different, just a different performance. The woman is a bad-ass. [Laughs] The demos from Like a Prayer that I found — of course, people want me to post these things and I cannot do that and I hope everyone understands — in listening through these things, the lead vocal she did for “Like a Prayer” the day we wrote it is the lead vocal on the record, and it’s the same with a lot of those. That was it. “Cherish,” same thing — she sang it the day we wrote it, that’s the vocal. Again: bad-ass.

I would come up with something and I would show it to her, normally in two or three different sections. She’d give her input and we would make adjustments. Whatever things she heard, we would address and then she would sit and write the lyric and write a melody and then she’d sing it. The next day we’d do another song. I don’t remember any song that we spent two days on. I mean, when we went into production, we would work on them then, but during writing I remember it being a song a day.

BC: How did you come to write together?

PL: We got back from the tour and just kind of by accident wrote “Live to Tell.” I’d written some music for a film, trying to get a film score, and they didn’t hire me for the film, so in a 24-hour period it went from that film to At Close Range. Madonna had agreed, just as a favor, to write the lyrics for me because it would give me a leg up on getting this film score for her to write the lyrics to the end title, which was based on one of the themes that I was writing for this other movie. It became the score for At Close Range and “Live to Tell.”

Rick Knowles, who has written with many people, says this about Madonna-

Co-writer Rick Nowels spoke to music website Idolator last week recalling…

Madonna and I wrote nine songs together over a two week period in late April 1997. Madonna would show up at 3 p.m. and we would start from scratch. She would leave at 7:00 and we would have a finished song and demo with all her lead and background vocals recorded.

She is a brilliant pop melodist and lyricist. I was knocked out by the quality of the writing. The lyrics to ‘The Power Of Good-Bye’ are stunning. I love Madonna as an artist and a songwriter… I know she grew up on Joni Mitchell and Motown, and to my ears she embodies the best of both worlds. She is a wonderful confessional songwriter, as well as being a superb hit chorus pop writer… She doesn’t get the credit she deserves as a writer.

But then what happened R143? She starting phoning it in with American Life/Confessions. Even though I like some of the music the lyrics are shit.

r144 Lyrics are shit? No. To the SONG American Life, yes, but not the album nor Confessions. Has great lyrics and she had great lyrics for Hard Candy (hated the album, though) and Rebel Heart.

Nile Rodgers on Madonna-

But when artists you’ve worked with do hit, they’ve been huge. Do you feel that you have some special Nostradamus sense for talent?

No! I’m good at liking them, but my taste is rather eclectic, so I’m trying to make artists that are just interesting and have a huge amount of style. Like Madonna — when I first met Madonna I was perplexed. The second time I met Madonna. I was in love. So it went from ‘Huh’ to ‘You’re the f—ing greatest s— I’ve ever seen.” [laughs]

Love Madonna. I always thought this newer song of hers was a nice, light breezy track that is pretty underrated/unknown.

I've been having a huge Bedtime Stories phase lately, though. It's one of her best albums.

That Patrick Leonard interview was so interesting. Had no idea he was such a dish, too. When was the last time they worked together? I'd love for them to collaborate on her new album.

Thanks, R140. Miles Away is my favorite among the more recent Madonna songs.

Does anyone like “You’ll See”???

Angel is such a gem.

WEHT Linda Fiorentino?

I always thought it was odd that there was no official video for “Angel”

Love “Miles Away” too, and their should have been a video for “Angel”. I would like the 12” version of “Angel” without the Madonna name repeated throughout the song.

R141, Wow. I had never heard of her recording of "Boum." I like it. Since Madonna is past the right age to play Texas Guinan, she should consider producing and composing a Broadway musical on her.

I do wonder why Angel never got a video. I wonder if she was just too busy at the time. She was touring, no?

Here is more Rick Nowels about Madonna's talent-

You worked with Madonna on her acclaimed Ray Of Light album. What was it like working with her?

Rick Nowels: I always wanted to work with Madonna. I loved her voice, her songwriting, and the great records she made with Pat Leonard, Stephen Bray and Nile Rodgers. In 1997 I was in New York for the Grammys. I was up for Album of the Year (as one of the producers) for Celine Dion’s Falling Into You. I was in Barney’s (store) getting a tie for the Grammys and I saw Madonna there. I introduced myself, and I told her that she didn’t get the credit she deserved as a songwriter. Which is true, but it’s also an awkward thing to tell a huge superstar! She was very cool and gracious. I ended up getting a meeting with her in L.A. a few weeks later.

We wrote nine songs together—three made the Ray of Light album: “The Power of Goodbye”, “Little Star” and “To Have and Not To Hold”. “The Power of Goodbye” was a number one song in U.K. and Europe. It was a career-changing experience for me. Before that I had always done my co-writing with friends. But working with Madonna…it was the first time I had ever written one-on-one with a great artist/writer. After that I changed gears a little, and now I mostly collaborate directly with artists.

Take A Bow

Into The Groove

I like to bash Madonna at times because some of what she does, especially on Instagram, is so cringey. Her attempts at trying to appeal a younger market are completely transparent and haven't worked.

But when she delivers the goods, she really delivers. Even on albums I mostly dislike there's always a song or two I think are perfect pop.

I've really enjoyed this thread. Thanks, everyone, for contributing (both videos, and very interesting articles). Much is made of Madonna's Italian heritage, but her French Canadian heritage is usually dismissed. Her mother (who died when she was young) was French Canadian, and had distinctly Gallic features. My Mom's side of the family came from France, and the look is very familiar to me.

Only Elvis and Michael are ion her level of superstardom megastars. She’s the last living legendary ultimate icon

R160 I would add James Dean and Marilyn Monroe. It's notable that she and Marilyn are the only two women who would be considered to be at that level.

R161, don’t forget Helen Lawson.

r191 they're not singers.

Her collection is so varied who could pick the best? She has an eclectic mix of songs.

Like A Prayer is still her best after all these years.

R165, I mentioned upthread that my ex-BF considered 'Crazy for You' one of 'our songs'. We had just started dating when it came out. And I can assure you we waltzed around his bedroom, listening to it, holding each other close.

[quote][R161], don’t forget Helen Lawson.

Oh we definitely TRY to.

This is one of her most beautiful songs

R168 Her brother-in-law Joe Henry has songwriting credit since she reworked "Don't Tell Me" from a demo of his song "Stop"

R168 And WIFLFAG. such a soft, earnest and distinct voice.

I thought she looked most gorgeous in the Bad Girl video

R170 in Spanish

R166 I meant dancing in clubs. Like a Prayer was such a floor filler.

Judging by what's she's written with Pat Leonard, Stephen Bray and Rick Nowels it's evident she writes her best work when she's working with actual musicians and not deejays. I wonder if she's noticed this.

When Rebel Heart (avicci version) leaked i thought it had some of the most direct, self-aware lyrics with deep mature vocals and killer hook. I can for sure put that somewhere in her "best " of the songs post 2000's

R175, I forgot about that demo. I agree, it's one of her best of the past 20 years. Ghosttown was a real gem, too, and one of her best songs since the 90s.

Live to Tell (the bridge is beautiful), Ray of Light, Vogue,

It's definitely one of my favorites, OP! I fucking love this song.

This, take a bow, music and holiday are her only really good ones!

For some reason I love, love Rebel Heart (song, not album). It is so damn catchy. I think I'm the only person who feels this way.

Her best song is time after time.

Ah, no. Time After Time was by Cindy Lauper.

"Like A Prayer" was her imperial phase, 1989-1990 or 91, where she could hardly put a foot wrong. Most culturally iconic artists have those but, even though her other eras may have been less perfect than that one, there are just so many great songs to pick from: "Live To Tell", "Rain", "Secret", "Frozen", "Hung Up"... Even some of the songs which should really be corny and age pretty badly ("La Isla Bonita", for instance) are better than they have any right to be.

I wouldn't even call myself a super-fan or Madonna my favourite artist, but her "The Immaculate Collection" is probably one of the best pop music best-offs, next to PSB's "Discography", in terms of the consistency of its pop brilliance from start to finish.

Has she done covers of standards?

But "The Immaculate Collection" suffers from using weird edits of some of the songs and shortening some of them. I prefer the 2-disc collection "Celebration" from 2009 (?).

R184, is "Fever" considered a standard?

One of my favorites is "Don't Tell Me." I also like "Take a Bow."

Rain

Good to know many of you like the r & b flavored Take a Bow by Babyface

Love “Take A Bow” …very sexy video.

This used to be my playground

Shocked no one mentioned Beautiful Stranger. I used to love this song.

There's not many songs of Madonna's that I don't like. Very few. Love nearly all of her music.

I thought I had posted a comment, but it looks like it disappeared. She collaborated with Massive Attack, and I thought she was pretty amazing.

"Laugh to Keep From Crying" - when she was influenced by Chrissie Hynde and Patti Smith

R194 Luscious

She has a great lower register. "inside of me" is silky smooth. her voice can be very diverse, I think, which I like and I hate to do the compare and contrast thing with other artists but for me thats why I enjoy her.

Another underrated gem

Wow R195. That might as well just be the The Pretenders. I totally love it!!

Revenge is good if you're at the gym

R197, Thanks. I also pointed out, on another thread, that when she uses a lower register, her voice surprises with its power. I don't know that 'Rescue Me' got any airplay in the US, and I only heard it on the Immaculate Collection album, but I really does show how strong her voice can be.

She's rarely looked better than she did in the Massive Attack video at R194. Like a B&W Italian film star.

She's constantly being crucified on DL, but this thread has been pretty positive. Most of us have admitted to dragging her, but, my God, she's older than me, and still out there performing and releasing new stuff. I posted her Superbowl performance on some other thread, and I got a lot of WWs, because I don't think many people had seen it. It's the only Superbowl Halftime performance I've ever seen. When she's 'on', she's really on. It's mainly a string of her greatest hits (of course), but the way her charisma fills the stadium is amazing.

I was surprised to learn that "Crazy For You" was written by John Bettis, who was Richard Carpenter's songwriting partner (Goodbye To Love, Top Of The World).

203 posts and no mention of Madonna's god-awful version of "American Pie".

Most people would probably rather forget "American Pie." Though I honestly prefer it to the original (which I really can't stand). It's shorter.

I liked Madonnas American Pie more than the original.

Don McLean's American Pie was a classic. Madonna's American Pie was musical Sominex.

ByEEE ByEE Miss AmerEEEcan PieEE, drove ma CheveEE to the levEEE but the levEEE was dryeE

LuckeEEE Staarr

[quote]I don't know that 'Rescue Me' got any airplay in the US

It was a Billboard Top Ten hit.

Truth or Dare (1991) was the highest-grossing documentary ever released up to that time.

Isolated studio vocals from Vogue.

I think she sounds pretty good. I liked her voice like this before she became such a mannered singer.

I always hated that song. I do however, love "Live To Tell."

I thought "Like A Prayer" was generally considered her best song. She cowrote it, presumably the excellent lyrics.

R198, I really like “what it feels like for a girl.” Bit of trivia, Above and Beyond was a little EDM project that came together to remix that track. Today, they’re one of the biggest acts in the genre.

Me, as a former music student, my choice is "Into the Groove"-

The complexity of the musical measures and arrangements are awesome.

Some album tracks I think are her best: Think of Me, Promise to Try, Spanish Eyes, To Have and Not to Hold, Mer Girl, Impressive Instant (originally supposed to be a single), Nobody Knows Me, Easy Ride, I Love New York and Like It Or Not.

The demo version of I Love New York is also good. Very reminiscent of her early NYC days.

r216, I love that one too, but Madonna has said she wrote it in 15 mins and is embarrassed by it. She only preforms it because the audience seems to love it. Never released as a single interestingly enough, although it gets heavy play on retro-80s radio.

"Complexities"

I just read the MARY! post at R78.

Here's another which showcases the complexities of the musical measures/arrangements. Because it is so well arranged, it proves the addition of Madge's vocals are truly superfluous.

R218 yes she doesn’t like that one. She actually said some of her “dumbest” songs that are super simple and she wrote really fast were some of her surprise hits, like Into The Groove and Cherish, which she considers very stupid but it was a hit.

Too bad Bette Davis was dead by the time Vogue was released, so she didn't get to hear her shout-out. Bette loved Madonna and I remember her exclaiming once, probably on Donahue, "Now there is a woman who knows how to run a damn career!"

Funny though she always makes a big production for ITG. Many of the songs she says she hates now she let go of quickly or only performs them in limited fashion. She never does Cherish anymore and Material Girl only as a medley or in some humorous way. But TG is always a big deal in her shows. My favorite was the Keith Haring inspired production from Sticky and Sweet with the jumpropes.

R224, I loved it when she Double-Dutched. When I was a little kid, I was the little white kid skipping rope with the black girls out on the playground, and they taught me how to Double-Dutch.

R225 someone I know from Chicago was like you. He loved playing with the black kids. Said he always had more fun with them lol

Might as well check entire half hour Vogue B-roll footage

Lets watch Icon Sue Sylvester perform Vogue

When she started she had that helium voice thing going on, did that just go away?

The helium voice was part of the whole pop/disco dolly persona. But if you listen to her earlier work with Breakfast Club or Emmy, her voice was more Chrissie Hynde-like post-punk wailing and shrieking.

If you listen to people like Patrick Leonard who worked with her and people like her brother, she never learned to sing "properly" instead just went out and sang. She didn't care nor wanted to polish her voice (until Evita). She would often sing a song in one take (P Leonard said so in an article upthread) and however it sounded. Her brother said she did not do proper vocal warm ups (until her 2003 tour which is one of her best, vocally).

A book was written about her musicality called Like An Icon. The writer interviewed everyone she has ever worked with. There was nothing but praise for her songwriting, song-crafting, producing, and singing (though she's not in Whitney league there, of course). It changed my view of her talent. Many of these people are career musicians and they said she is one of the all time best as P Leonard did in that article upthread.

She has a very unique voice in that she can sound so different on her records. She can sound very high, helium or very very low. She has a really versatile voice and she can emote the hell out of a song which is something you cannot learn. That is a true gift. She has about a little over 3 octaves. Depending on where she is singing from (head, chest) she can sound thin and nasal or very full, bright, rich and strong. Her chronic allergies don't help. Her one real flaw, singing, is her lack of control. I've always liked her voice. She has given many performances where I just love her voice.

R227 - I watched the whole damn thing. It was kind of mesermizing watching her and the dancers do take after take from that iconic video. I'd love for her to work with David Fincher again. What a great match they were on Vogue, Oh Father, Express Yourself.

Not even close

Holiday, Like a Prayer, Express Yourself, Borderline, Frozen, Into the Groove, Ray of Life, Vogue are all better than Crazy for You

Yeah, the B-roll footage is amazing isn't it r233? It just goes to show how charismatic she is, and that it comes through even without all the editing.

She really was born for the video age.

She was definitely at her peak with Vogue, in all ways. It is a great song.

[quote]WEHT Linda Fiorentino?

There were rumors for years that she was hard to work with. Could be the same old sexist bullshit, or, based on current revelations, it could be that she refused to suck Harvey Weinstein's dick.

Or maybe she was just hard to work with.

She also sort of hit the wall in the looks department -- sadly, although she is an amazing actress, looks really trump everything for Hollywood leading ladies.

She was in the news not that long ago regarding the trial of crooked LA private eye Anthony Pellicano. Fiorentino had dated Pellicano in the past and was still close to him, and wanted to help him in his defense. She was dating a federal agent at the time, Rossini, and she told him she was writing a screenplay about the Pellicano case and wanted to see the FBI files on Pellicano. Rossini stupidly agreed to let her see them, and Fiorentino then turned the files over to Pellicano's lawyers. She was convinced that the feds were withholding evidence from Pellicano's lawyers. I don't believe that Fiorentino was held responsible for this, but Rossini was forced to pay a fine and resign from the FBI. So she's not that different from her character in The Last Seduction, apparently. (I love that movie, but it's almost impossible to see these days.)

Kevin Smith complains a lot about Fiorentino's behavior on the set of Dogma, one of his speechy-piece-of-shit movies. When he gets into the details though, it seems more like she had a grueling time making the movie because she was in every scene and he didn't know how to manage her time well. He's an asshole so I'm not sure how reliable his dishing is.

Here's why she used to get cast, and no longer gets cast, in two simple images.

Madonna always had something about her voice I loved. It has qualities you cannot be taught. When she's vocally on, I am impressed.

Can't wait for the new album. I stopped being a fan for 15ys (mad about the Eminem endorsement) but now I want to get back into it. She's fun, and really knows how to run a damn career!

R241She does not make good music anymore though so why bother?

r242 It thought so to until Rebel Heart. It had a lot of really good songs.

From the Rebel Heart album (already posted upthread, but who cares). A gorgeous song. The next vid I'm going to post if from the Rebel Heart Tour.

From the Rebel Heart Tour.

This is worth seeing. You may need to seek it out.

Watch 'Deeper and Deeper'. I love her.

There is a new docudrama on Madonna's early years in the band The Breakfast Club.

r248 The docudrama looks interesting.

This peformarnce,. hurts me, because it so beautiull.;

R250 she can’t sing live, sorry

I think Madge's best live performance 1989 Express Yourself MTV Awards and when she did Sooner or Later at the Oscars in full Marilyn drag.

Keep in Together, Express Yourself, Til Death do us Part are probably her most critically acclaimed songs. All from Like a Prayer

R251, what an odd comment. If you were planning to criticize my spelling or grammar, I'd understand (I'm rather embarrassed), but I think she was absolutely flawless at R250. She was at her most beautiful, and he voice was very measured and controlled. For an incredibly well-known performer, she's actually what most of us would call "underrated". We know she's famous and sells tons of records, but we almost never admit that she can actually be really GOOD when she performs. I think this thread helps us see that.

R252's performance. Again, it's live. Balls of steel.

I've done my share of bashing her but lets be real- she absolutely can sing and often sings where I am just transfixed by her voice. She, unfortunately, breathes like a dancer so her breaths are too short when singing often leading to some very off performances. This video shows her power. And there are so many out there where she sings live beautifully.

She gave great vocal performances on the Girlie Show tour and the 2003 tour where she toured with a vocal coach. She was very consistent and gave vocally strong performances esp Mother and Father, Deeper and Deeper, Lament, Hanky Panky (2003) and Express Yourself, Deeper and Deeper, Holiday, and this one which I just saw last year.

I know I'm in the minority here but I thought the Girlie Show was vastly superior to Blond Ambition.

Maybe because the Erotica album was so amazing to my 16 yr old self.

I agree R258. Blond Ambition was ambitious but is came off less professional and less fun

r259 The Dick Tracy elements ruin much of it. She seemed to be having more fun with Girlie Show. Plus, she had horrible throat issues during Blond Ambition.

Her best song? 70’s Love Groove, of course.

I did notice in the video of the Girlie Show that she was smiling through a lot of the numbers and seemed to be having a lot of fun with the material. Weird since that was kind of a dark period for her professionally.

I also love In This Life. Very timely and powerful performance (about HIV/AIDS if you are a babygay, or a frau, or just ignorant).

Out of ALL the Madonna performances I've seen over the years - live, on air, or studio produced - this one always sticks with me and why I will always consider Madonna an exemplary ally and can't bring myself to mock her present-day excesses.

"Oh, Father" (1989} was Madonna's first single not to make the Top10 in 5yrs. She'd had 17 consecutive Top 10s by then, 16 were Top 5. "Bad Girl" in 1992 was her first single not to make the Top 30 since the start of her career, and they didn't put it on her ballad collection "I'll Remember" a few years later. A later Erotica single, "Rain," did quite well though.

Too bad both Oh Father and Bad Girl are really good songs but both are downers.

Wow, Oh Father didn't hit the top 10? Of all the songs, that is surprising. Yes, it is a downer and her vocal was very imperfect (on purpose, said Patrick Leonard, as she wanted it to be full of pain). Bad Girl was exactly the same, downer and imperfect vocal though her live SNL performance was excellent, vocally. Not an easy song to sing and be able to convey the emotion.

R263, Thanks! Very beautiful!

R266's excellent SNL performance. Again, it amazes when I read crap about her not being able to sing.

r268 People who say that are seriously stupid but mainly they just say it because it has always been used as a weapon on her since Clive Davis paid media to say it. Some are pissed she is the most successful singer ever but not the greatest voice. She's always had more than a good enough voice. Her voice is versatile and she can convey emotion like few others which can't be learned and is a true gift.

^Oh puhlease.

She sounds a hot mess at R268.

R271, but that's what the song is all about. I think she was fabulous, even though it's a very sad song.

it's one of the few memorable songs by Madonna. Sure, her singing is weak and she doesn't write a lick of her music or lyrics, but this song seems to fit her "barely there" voice.

r273 The pressed anti-Madonna trolls are back. Bwahahhahahaahahahahahaha I hear your sobbing.

In answer to the original post, yes, it is her best song.

OK, I'm one of those rare DL posters who isn't argumentative. But we had several intelligent posts, just upthread that showed the opposite. Some of the links aren't working anymore. This link is difficult to watch: you may need to watch it in English subtitles. But it shows what a great songwriter Madonna is, which has been testified to many times. It's tiresome to keep fighting this fight. I'm not her biggest fan (at all), but I respect people who bring some talent to the table.

r276 They are like deplorables- they cannot stand facts.

A music write, Lucy O'Brien wrote a book, Like An Icon, exclusively about Madonna's musicality. She interviewed dozens and dozens of songwriters, producers, singers, musicians, instrumentalists, background singers,and all kinds of people who worked with her on various albums over her entire career. Every one of them attest to her musicality, her gift for songwriting, melody, producing, sound and yes, even her singing. These are well-known and obscure people in the industry. One guitar player, who has played for everyone, said she would know if an instrument was out of tune or if one instrument was slightly drowning out something else. They talked about how she would stop in the middle of laying down the music and ask for more this or less than using specific musical language .

I've dissed her on here as well. It was fun for awhile but it got way out of hand.

What ever anyone says about her voice I like it a lot. Always have.

R277, Thanks so much!

Hi Madonna @ R277! How do you feel about Gaga being nominated for two more Oscars and a shoo-in for at least one of them?

If you have to pick just one song, then Holiday has had the most longevity.

Madonna's music gives rhythm to the rhythmless, and people who don't like Madonna or dancing will head to the dance floor when Holiday comes on.

Hi Janet! How do you feel about finally getting into the RnRHOF after having exhausted your allotted amount of rejections?

[quote]Madonna's music gives rhythm to the rhythmless

Not as much as you know who’s...

[quote]Madonna's music gives rhythm to the rhythmless

Too bad it doesn’t give the woman herself any.

r283 Yea, wow, so on point. It wasn't as if Madonna went to college on a dance scholarship or was invited to tour with the prestigious, elite Martha Graham school and Alvin Ailey. Only the best of the best get in to those troupes. But yea, go with she can't dance. That works.

Some of Madonna's most impressive, rhythmic dancing is on the Vogue B-roll footage.

[R24] Love Don't Live Here Anymore is a beautiful song, but Madonna's version is horrible. This is how it should sound!

r279 Hi Gaga, how does it feel to want, so sooooo desperately, to have Madonna's #1 music career, the best selling female singer, by far, of all time? I'm sure you would beg to have ANY music career. You have all this movie success yet it hasn't even reached the level of The Bodyguard or Evita, cultural events. Nobody fucking cares she is nominated (and will win a song award for adding a comma to Mark Ronson's song). Dozens of pop starlets have come after you and eclipsed you in every way even when you are having all this current "success". Is it success when no one gives a fuck? Enjoy this because after the Oscars are over, you will once again see failure after failure until you have yet another illness or disease you invent to gain sympathy or get out of a failing tour.

Madonna can't sing, dance or act her way out of a paper bag, comes across as completely obnoxious and shows all the tell tale signs of severe sociopathy, but she has managed to forge a career off of...erm...something.

Only female to have five #1 albums this decade

Three time Oscar nominee (and soon to be winner)

Two time Golden Globe winner

Hugely successful sold-out current Vegas residency and, before that, a recent successful world tour

Massive critical and commercial success with her first film role which culminated in several awards won this awards season

Respect from many Holloywood and music industry legends, several of whom she’s worked with

Easy to have a #1 album but much more difficult to keep up second week sales....unless you are Beyonce or Taylor Swift.

Sadly, Lady Fuckface hasn't learned to master (aka rip-off) this trick yet.

Get Up

R287 claimed in another post to have been a part of the DL dragging Madonna brigade, yet ignore shows him to have made dozens of cloyingly sweet flattering posts about her in this thread. Pressed much?

[quote]Hugely successful sold-out current Vegas residency and, before that, a recent successful world tour

I saw some clips. Apparently Lady Fuckface is now ripping-off Pink's aerial acrobatics now.

Madonna, introducing her son’s dance troupe before they do a routine to Janet’s “Rhythm Nation”.

"Live to Tell", "Into the Groove", "Frozen"... all iconic.

I think the Blond Ambition tour has the better set list and has the bigger highs but I think The Girlie Show has aged better. The costumes and set design still look very modern (especially now with many shows having catwalks).

And the Girlie Show was more intimate.

R276, changing "this" to "that" or "here" to "there" and then giving yourself credit isn't exactly true songwriting.

Also, why does Madonna use the N word?

r297 Didn't watch the video.

R263 made me tear up. How dare you try to tear her down. You don't have to like her. But she's important to many of us. Just go back to the artists who you like, and let us enjoy her.

^Show that same respect to other people’s fave female artists and we can talk.

R297 I had no idea Madonna's songwriting consisted of changing this to that, or here to there. Thanks for the informative post!

r300 What are you talking about? So you go around tearing down other artists because you think their fan base is tearing down YOUR fave? How old are you?

R302 nowhere near as old as Madonna

[quote] Wow, Oh Father didn't hit the top 10?

It peaked at a decent #20, but broke her Top 10 streak none the less. The public didn't like her doing dark material, that's why she turned to sweet ballads in the mid-90s, and scored one of her biggest hits with Take A Bow. She wasn't edgy again until "Ray of Light," which was a risk because electronica was considered an over-hyped fad by then because of few commercial successes. She put electonica on the map and assured she'd continue having hit into the 21st century, defying being aged out of pop chart since she was over 40 by then.

I've never heard "Ghosttown" before. It's surprising how much she sounds like Karen Carpenter on the verses.

"Oh Father" was also the fourth or fifth single from "Like A Prayer" and, by that time, most people owned it. So not hard to explain why it charted lower. Still one of her greatest songs (and videos, which made a bigger impact).

Gaga, the queen of versatility.

'Ghost Town' is a gorgeous song. Here's a live version, and surprisingly, although I don't care for Taylor Swift, I didn't mind her one bit in this clip. She just offers great support for a great song., As the song goes, "you don't always know what you've got, till it's gone" (go ahead and correct me, I probably got it wrong). She's been creating great music for a long time. We should enjoy it while she can still do it. At some point, it will be gone (and so shall we). Not everyone can create great music.

BTW, This is completely off-topic, but notice how Taylor Swift towers over Madonna at R308. Rupert Everett mentioned that her eyes were so wide apart, that you would almost think she had a disorder. It's been repeatedly mentioned how very short she is. When she was introduced to the Queen, she went away from the introduction chuckling, once she realized the Queen had no idea who she was. I have no problems making fun of her, but I hate comments that dismiss her talent.

Madonna's short and old. But since neither are criminal offenses, she keeps doing her thing anyway.

Madonna is 5'4". Gaga is even shorter.

I ❤️ R294.

Crazy For You

Live To Tell

You Must Love Me

Ray Of Light

Like A Prayer

The Erotica album is so underrated, it's so fascinating. And Madonna brought the best out of Shep Pettibone. I thought it'd be the start of a great producing career, but he wasn't nearly as good without Madonna co-producing. I rushed to buy Cathy Dennis' album produced by Pettibone shortly after, and it bored me silly. Ended her hot streak. America just couldn't handle Madonna being so dark and edgy.

She can sing in the key of C

Hi Madonna @R314! It’s getting closer to Gaga’s win, ya know!

Hi Gaga troll, with your worthless comment that adds nothing to the conversation (which is why I have you on ignore.)

r316 What is that supposed to mean? Lady fugs, who has been eclipsed by dozens of other pop starlets, will never have a music career of significance. Since her loony tunes fans love awards, Taylor and Beyonce, to name JUST two, demolish her in those categories. Jennifer Hudson is an Oscar and Grammy winner. Her Oscar is for ACTING which Lady fugs won't have. Jennifer isn't exactly one of the most popular people in the world but she obviously is far more popular and talented than Lady fugs going by what the monsters measure success by. Lady fugs fans are obsessed with Madonna which shows you how relevant the "old" Madonna is. At least Madonna didn't start filling her face with botox and fillers in her 30's like Lady fugs, who still looks at least 10 years older than she actually is. Let Lady fugs will all the awards she desperately needs to fill the empty void in herself. She is so weak she needs it. I've never seen such a weak, pathetic person. Everything she does is calculated to win some award. Isn't it funny who Madonna is called old yet Lady fugs is the one who broke a hip in her 20's? Yet, where is the surgery scar? Have any of you noticed she has no scar. The reason- it was fake. She canceled a tour because it was failing. Then there is the R KELLY song and video and performances. This was WELL after everyone knew what he had done yet this sick bitch did a song and video and performances that show this sick bitch didn't care about rape or victims. She is an opportunist and thought he could get her a hit or give her some cred with black audiences. She is a sick, twisted, liar, weak pathetic extreme narcissist. And she will never come close to Madonna's music OR film career. Her monsters knows it so they spend so much time trying to (pathetically) tear Madonna down. Speaks volumes of how they know their sick idol needs it because their idol doesn't resonate with the general public despite this current "success".

I never really noticed back then but boy do most (all?) of her early hits have a lot of vocal effects on them. Has autotune been around that long?

"Bedtime Stories" was then and remains my least favorite album of hers. Too slick, too jazzy, can't get into it at all. But then, just when I had written her off, came "Evita" and "Ray of Light". Never write Madonna off as I learned.

R319 no. Auto tune started in the mid 90s.

R321, Well they were definitely doing something to her voice back then.

Bedtime Stories was her attempt to go R&B and duplicate Janet’s ‘janet.’ album.

Janet was far superior to Bedtime Stories

r319 Bullshit and a very lame attempt at trying to, once again, diminish her. If you watch the Virgin Tour, she duplicated the tone and pitch of those songs live.

Autotune does not cover up for someone who can't sing. Britney sounds like a computer when they use autotune or other studio tricks. It is obvious.

Anyway, this thread is refreshing. The usual trolls have come out and using the usual talking points. I'm not a huge fan of many of the things Madonna does as far as antics go but I'm also not a fan of the way any celebrity acts. In the social media age, Celebrities have grown tiresome with their antics and it makes he despise most of them. With SM, the fakery and attention whoring is off the charts.

I thought Bedtime Stories was very underrated. It is an excellent and subdued album.

R325, Yes, many of us got a chance to celebrate her talent, for a change. I don't mind making fund of her (I certainly have), but she's given us a great gift of music for a long time.

Make fun of her (not making fund of her).

I’m excited for her new music

that makes 1 of you r329

As others have said, Live to Tell is haunting and beautiful. And she didn't style herself as a whore.

its a great song, it would be so much better if she could actually sing. Someone like Cyndi Lauper or maybe Ariana Grande should sing this so we can hear how it should really sound

Madonna is so iconic, it's literally impossible to pick her best song. You need a Top 20 list at the very least.

Ariana Grande would destroy a song like Crazy For You.

You don’t need wailing for a song like that.

R323 you dumb ass bitch , yes Madonna’s voice is fucking weak but Ariana mumbles everything!

R332 this is the real dumb ass bitch!! sorry anon at r323

Ariana should break more of Madonna's records with Madonna songs.

I have 332 blocked. That is janstan. Of course they are going to say something outrageous when no one has ever said Madonna didn't sound great on Crazy For You. She was nominated for a Best Pop Female Vocal Grammy for it with some heavyweights back when they didn't hand out noms like candy though the Grammys always sucked.

R338 I should have realized that was whisper coo’s number one shitstan!

I'm not looking to bash Cindi, I was a kid in the 80's, bought her albums and singles, I loved her too, but she's not this amazing singer that everyone is crowing about. The overly done Brooklyn schtick got old and didn't age well for radio play. She was entertaing, but never really reinvented and matured. Too silly and schticky. At times irritating.

She sang Live to Tell beautifully IMHO. Her voice really conveyed it well.

Cindi's voice did nothing for me. Twue Cawwers ah buutiful wike a wainbow. Just no. She can sing just not my thing.

I love the Bedtime Stories album. It was a great, solid album but it didn't get the respect it deserved because of the Sex backlash.

r343 I didn't care for it all that much but it got a Grammy nom for best Pop Album and received good reviews. She was back in the public's good graces by the time Take A Bow smashed.

Madonna is certainly not a vocalist or a song writer

r345 read upthread about how Madonna's collaborators on her songs all praise her songwriting.

R343 technically inaccurate regardless what of you think of her, but you're being a dutiful troll

yes, the people Madonna paid praise her, revolutionary r346

R347 for R345

???r347?? It's common knowledge that the Sex backlash overshadowed the excellent Bedtime Stories album. I remember it clearly.

Oh Father has been my favorite for years. Beautiful

It was Erotica that was sidelined by the Sex book. Bedtime Stories came out a couple years later. It didn't sell as well as her 80s albums, but there was a distinct air of "image rehabilitation" about it. And "Take a Bow" ended up being one of her biggest hits.

345 is the stupid janstan. Block it. It is wonderful not to read its bullshit anymore. Really refreshing.

Erotica really wasn't even about sex. It had a few naughty songs but that was it. I was too young to even know what was going on at the time (1985 baby) but when I finally listened to it I thought it would be all about sex and nope, it wasn't. Still, it is a dark-ish masterpiece.

This looks interesting. It is verbatim conversations b/w Madonna and boyfriend at the time in their band The Breakfast Club. Hours of talking. Apparently she is thought of very highly by them. There are some reenactments that don't look all that bad.

^^^ All recordings by Dan Gilroy, her then boyfriend who taught her to play drums and guitar when she was 19.

R353 can't let it go, always deflecting to bury Madonna's lack of singing/songwriting ability

Can't see 355 THANK YOU JESUS!

How come no one seems to praise or talk about “Sooner or Later” from Dick Tracey.

It won the Oscar for best song. Has she ever performed it live on tour?

Andrew Rannells recently sang Sooner or Later on his PBS special. It was......strange.

r358 She sang it on the Blond Ambition Tour. Then, of course, famously and fantastically, at the Academy Awards.

There is one performance on tour (towards the end when her throat issues were at their worst) she sings it with horrible laryngitis but actually gives a great, guttural performance. She really belted even with being ill.

Thanks R 360. It seemed either somewhat underrated or overlooked. Was there a proper video?

r361 Overlooked was to be expected with how hot she was at the time. A show tune standard wasn't going to cut it. I don't think there was ever a proper video. It wasn't released as a single. Her performance at the AAs was far superior to the recorded song. She jazzed it up and sped up the tempo.

This song really made people see Madonna as a serious singer. I think she needed this song to happen. She didn't have a song that sounded like this on LAV that she would release. A ballad did her good. She sounded really good on this song.

Gotta admit that it was pretty awesome seeing her perform it on the Re-Invention tour.

It's a great song that has held up beautifully.

I don't recall "Sooner or Later" on the reinvention tour?

[quote]I don't recall "Sooner or Later" on the reinvention tour?

"Crazy For You" not "Sooner Or Later."

Yes, she did Crazy For You, which is rare.

I always enjoyed VOGUE from The Girlie Show.

It was years later that it dawned on me that she was doing Danny Kaye from Wonder Man (Bali Boogie).

Talk about fuckin' trippy!

My favorites are "Open Your Heart" and "Get Into the Groove." I think both are flat-out amazing songs.

Not even close to being her best song but it is a damn good song and has stood the test of time. She sings this song perfectly.

I saw the documentary her former band mate and boyfriend made. She had a bit of a tumultuous relationship at times with them especially after the break up of the band but she came out looking really good, far less ruthless as has been alleged in the past and very talented musically.

wow some of you have awful taste. "Crazy For You" sounds like shit and is very lame. I'm not a fan but she has much better songs than this

I like Crazy for You but it's not my favorite. I prefer the songs she does in her lower register, like Oh Father.

Bedtime Stories and The Power of Goodbye are my favorites.

Matthew Modine sure was cute in that video and movie!

Madonna's best

I think Take a Bow is her most beautiful song.

I AM a fan and I agree with r373, it sounds like tortured country-pop to me, and I hate the vocal performance. One of the few of her hits I dislike, she's been remarkably consistent.

I've noticed people seem to underrate "Live To Tell" in my opinion. That was the first of her songs when I thought, oh maybe she can be taken seriously. It's her first totally serious single in my opinion. I remember hearing it driving on the highway with nothing but a flat, barren landscape on either side, the perfect setting for the beautiful and bleak song. I don't know how anyone can resist the fabulous production. I read the song actually represented a new kind of power ballad, invented by Madonna and Co.

I have to go with Into The Goove....when that synthesizer beat start up, I dare anyone to not get up and start dancing

I thought Hanky Panky was underrated. Her voice sounded strong, and she really delivered with her performance of it.

The Dick Tracey inspired "I'm Breathless" was during Madonna's "imperial period" every pop star has where they can do no wrong. Breathless was just handicapped by being a half-assed soundtrack album, there was an entirely different Dick Tracy soundtrack album issued in addition. Anyway, sure Hanky's fun.

The documentary about her time in The Breakfast Club band pre-fame was interesting. Definitely showed her origin story was told for so long through misogyny and now the actual musicians with her every day say she was very talented and of course driven and her success was her own.

That "Hanky Panky" performance was not the actual vocal from that show. Whoever made that, overlayed the studio vocal with the concert. The actual concert vocal is great as well, actually better I would say.

It is the first song I truly knew she could sing. I was impressed.

I like Live To Tell and Frozen the best

Madonna and Patrick Leonard are great together

Madonna has so many hits to choose from, more US top 10 hits than any artist.in music history (38), more #1 singles on the United World Charts (worldwide singles charts) with 22 than any artist in history, that they tend to cancel beach other out in some instances

When she had her first hit in 1983, critics called her a "one hit wonder" and then she goes on to have more hit songs than even Elvis or The Beatles and sell more albums and concert tickets worldwide than any other female artist in history

Just crazy...

And certain people hate her for it...

She didn’t become a household name until Like a Virgin took off.

I’m still shocked she never made Angel a single from that album.

R386 no LAV was when she became a superstar. She had three big hits and was all over MTV already based on her first album which was double platinum, on it's way to 5x platinum, in the US by late 1984 when LAV was released.

She was all over the big TV shows (American Bandstand, Solid Gold, Top of the Pops) performing from.summer 1983 to late 1984 performing songs from her debut Album as well and getting magazine covers, and she was a CONSTANT in the teen magazines at that time (Bop, 16, Tiger Beat etc)

She went nuclear with the LAV album...

When didn't she make a video for Angel? It was a single because it made top 5. Into The Groove was the one not released as a single. If it had been, it would have been #1. LAV would have sold so much more (on top of the blockbuster sales it did have) if Crazy For You and Into The Groove would have been on it.

I hate I missed her rise. I have never seen the rise of a superstar like her. I was born in 1985. I was always aware of her thanks for my parents who both loved her. And I live in the deep south. My parents went from loving country music to loving pop/rock thanks for Madonna. Prince and Madonna were my parents favorites. They never liked MJ.

R388 at the time of it's release, LAV was already the biggest selling studio album by a female Artist EVER, nobody brings that up, in fact in 1985, Madonna sold more records than any woman in music history in any calendar year pre 1985

Madonna would sell even MORE, globally anyway, with her 1986 follow up True Blue. Madonna haters were suicidal at the time, I'm sure...

I was a kid during the initial "Madonna mania" of 84-85 and everyone in my neighborhood loved her, my babysitter Denise was a wannabe and dressed just like her, she actually took me to see The Goonies in full Madonna gear that summer, people tend to forget how big and encompassing she was during her Imperial Phase (84-92), Gays loved her, women and lesbians, straight guys thought she was the hottest thing and even bought her albums, she also had a significant following with Hispanics and blacks, as she's the most successful white female artist on the BILLBOARD R&B charts, having lots of top 40 hits and charted albums there.

Compare to say Lady Gaga, who at her peak only seemed to appeal to ultra queeny schreeching SJW cry baby millennial "queers" and occasionally their fat female fag hags...

Madonna's gonna have such a HUGE comeback this year. Then you can all eat crow.

Madonna still has a good straight following in most other countries in the world.

She even had conservatives loving her after Papa Don't Preach.

She alienated a shit ton of people after the whole LAP black jesus/ gay Vogue-ToD/ Erotica-Sex book. I admire her for that. And she still remained hugely popular.

R392 I'm not so sure. She could but she doesn't need to. She doesn't need to sell one more anything and her place in music history is there.

She's too unlikable now to have a comeback. I like most of what she's done but here's where the queen gets herself wrong: she thinks if something us taboo, she needs to break it just for the sake of breaking it. Movuegiers get shot up in a mass shooting and she glamorize abdvsecualizes guns in her next video like a retard. American sentiment leans toward war on Iraq and she bravely confronts that idiocy in a music vudeo--but then yanks the video, making her look like a coward. She wants airplay on radio but releases a song saying radio stations always play the same song over and over, making radio programmers say, "Fuck you then.". She tosses "bitch" and secual innuendo into her songs for no discernible point, making them lyrical messes, then wonders why no one relates. I'm looking forward to new music from her because hajf of Revel Heart was superb, but I have no expectations her senior citizen juvenillia will have vanished. I expect more of the same mistakes. Look at her last few appearances. She wanted people to talk. Yeah, they talked. About how awful she looked. Not about an eloquent speech or good music. She constantly shoots any good she does in its foot.

R394 comeback from what though? Even with very little airplay, her last album was among the top 5 biggest sellers Worldwide by a female Artist in 2015 with 1.2 million sold and it leaked in FULL months in advance as well

That's more than what Mariah's, Janet's, JLO'S and Britney's last albums sold worldwide COMBINED

And of course the tour was a huge success at the box office

I think Madonna will always have a degree of commercial success , with Eurovision confirmed and this new album unlikely to leak, it'll pretty much outsell Rebel Heart, the tour will be big too, Madonna will once again top Forbes list of the highest paid female music performers of the year...

Hit singles be damned...

I want to see her have another #1 album in the US. It's the most important market in the world.

Anyone over 25 will have a tough time getting hits now. Beyonce can't even get hits.

Madonna will always have touring and as was pointed out, her albums still sell well worldwide compared to most.

Once she has a GH tour, which is unlikely but she could, it will be huge likely biggest ever.

R396 Why? It was sad and funny how she had the #1 selling album of the week with Rebel Heart but was barely beat out by streaming of the Empire soundtrack. Music really has come down to that? Easily manipulated streaming?

If Tony Bennett can keep releasing #1 albums in the US, so can Madonna. It's demoralizing that the US market doesn't support her more.

R396 5 of her last 6 albums debuted at #1 on the US and RH was the #1 SELLER that week but poor streaming numbers consigned it to a #2 debut, it also leaked in full months in advance, so I see no problem with Madonna getting back to another #1 album this time with Maluma and Drake, streaming God's right now, as collaborators

Madonna may even have a big hit single on her hands if she released a collaboration with Drake, whom radio will play every fart from, or Maluma. Of course she'll set another record by being the oldest female artist to have a Billboard top 10 hit on the Hot 100...

R398 How? She has more #1 albums than any other female singer. She had 5 or 6 straight #1's until a technicality kept RH from being #1. She sold THE MOST that week. You are upset over a technicality? In the end, who cares. The charts are fucked up.

I was very young when Madonna first became famous but no other artist, male or female had the kind of breakthrough that she did. She was a phenomenon. And r391 put it well - she appealed to a huge crossover demographic.

[quote]Compare to say Lady Gaga, who at her peak only seemed to appeal to ultra queeny schreeching SJW cry baby millennial "queers" and occasionally their fat female fag hags...

I love this! So true.

Madonna needs to create some new classics. I want her to put out better music this time.

She is acting like she has something special up her sleeve. She acted this way before ROL and COADF. Maybe she does, maybe she doesn't but how many fucking hits can we expect one woman to have?

She better come out with something good. Ever since Hard Candy, she's been trying my patience.

Rebel Heart was good, or most of it. I really enjoyed it. I did not enjoy HC or MDNA.

Madonna doesn't need another hit or whatever. She has so many amazing hits. Her catalog is nuts as far as diversity and hits. I can't believe the same woman sang these songs.

I want her to come out with something really unique and interesting, like she is capable of. Fuck it being a hit. In this climate, shit is what sells. We will never see another singer with a career like her every again. What a ride! I am jealous of you fuckers who witnessed her ascension. My mom and dad said it was amazing. My grandma, who didn't like her because of the sexuality and she loved country, but loved Elvis, said, although she disapproved of Madonna, her ascension and career was thrilling to watch, just like Elvis was for her. She said she knew Madonna was something special from the beginning and would say she is here for the long haul, much to her chagrin. She did admit she begrudgingly liked some of her songs and she loved her in Evita.

R400, The only reason MDNA and Rebel Heart sold so much the first week was because people who bought tickets to her tour received a free copy of it thus inflating sales. In fact at the time, MDNA had the biggest 2nd week drop in sales of any other album.

[quote]The only reason MDNA and Rebel Heart sold so much the first week was because people who bought tickets to her tour received a free copy of it thus inflating sales.

That's actually proven not to be true. People who bought tickets didn't receive a "free" copy. They had to click and request that the price of the album be bundled into the cost of their tickets.

[quote]Madonna needs to create some new classics. I want her to put out better music this time.

I'm not sure how Madonna is supposed to achieve this. There is no blueprint (or place it seems) for a 50+ year old woman in Pop music.

What happened to Adult Contemporary? It seems to no longer be a viable market despite it being huge in the 90s. Madonna missed that opportunity.

A lot of the staples of the Adult Contemporary market stopped recording, or they hardly record at all anymore. Anne Murray, Kenny Loggins, etc.

Madonna didn't want the AC crowd. Madonna is at the point she doesn't need another hit ever. She is and will remain at the top. She can afford to do things on her terms whether it is a hit or not. I hope she rides the coattails of all the young hot artists so everyones head will explode. Well the haters at least. They never care when others do the same, like Elton.

Madonna is no Elton John.

[quote]Madonna is no Elton John.

Agreed.

She would never sink so low as to do a private concert for Rush Limbaugh!

The girl who played her in Madonna and the Breakfast Club looked like her twin circa 1983. It was uncanny. The movie sucked though.

"Get Together" (COTDF) "American Life" (the album) "She's Not Me" (HC) "Ray Of Light" "Turn Up The Radio" (MDNA)

"Bitch I'm Madonna" pretty much erased her musical credibility in the industry. It put her back at square one. She now has to prove that she can still sing, that she is not desperate and deluded.

Bitch needs to class up her act. The grills, the weird ass, the bizarre face...these things are destroying her legacy.

Bitch I’m Madonna was a fun song.

It would have been fun if she'd recorded it in her twenties. Doing it in her late fifties (with that fucking grill) looked ridiculous (and desperate.)

The song wouldn’t have been worth it in her 20s. She wasn’t the accomplished MADONNA we know now. She was still new.

You mean the desperate MADONNA we know now.

Madonna looked so pretty and classy when she was married to Guy Ritchie. When he dumped her, she went off the deep end.

[quote]"Bitch I'm Madonna" pretty much erased her musical credibility in the industry. It put her back at square one. She now has to prove that she can still sing, that she is not desperate and deluded.

This is the dumbest thing I've heard.

It was a lame song but to say it "erased her musical credibility," and that it "put her back to square one," sounds like the wish of someone delusional.

Madonna defenders...oh dear.

Her new song is called "Summer" and it features Maluma. She samples "Holiday" on the song, which is described as latin-sounding.

It's coming out within the next two weeks.

Oh, God, I hope it's not a reggaeton album... Even at her age, she could do better than that.

This made me think of Madonna.

R423 Madonna haters.........oh dear.

Erased her legacy? Put her back to square one? OMG some of you are fucking insane. It was a fun song. It was meant to be a fun song. Some of you are definitely wet blankets in your daily lives. You must be miserable.

Does no one like “I’ll Remember”?

One of my favorites to listen to by her.

Back off, haters. Madonna is amazeballs in this video.

Madonna's best songs include La Isla Bonita, Open Your Heart, Frozen, Bad Girl, The Power of Goodbye, Substitute for Love, and Oh, Father.

I'll Remember was odd because it doesn't stand out to me yet everyone fucking loved it. It stayed at #2 (doesn't Madonna have like 8 #2 hits?) for a long time blocked by some phenom song. All the fraus and straight boys loved it.

Madonna's best song is yet to come.

It reminded me so much of Rain esp the video. So it was odd but it worked. IR was a huge bridge from her most controversial/hated time to being back on top.

Listening to IR right now and it’s great. The sound, the lyrics, her vocals, etc. great pop track.

This Used to be my Playground is a beautiful, haunting song.

I just heard her new album is called Madame X and first song Medellin with Maluma. I'm glad she is featuring other artists. Radio won't play anyone under 17. I don't care if she hits or not I just want the music to be there. Oh and the vids!

Madame X is her new persona. She’s created a new character.

"Rescue Me" is a catchy song. There is no video for the song.

Rescue Me did not have a vid, you're right. I wonder why?

I think Madame X is going to be the first fully developed Madonna era since Confessions. She is acting very different about this new release like she knows she has something special in her hands. Whatever the outcome, she has done so much this will have an impact either way, success or not. Anything she does is an event and she should work with every hot, young artist. Why not? She deserves it and it could produce great dividends. I don't care if it is desperate. Maybe it is but does it matter if it works?

I haven't heard the new song yet. My friend, who likes her but is more of a indie artist type, likes it.

It's a better lead single then anything else post-"Hung Up". Not that it says too much, but I was expecting worse. Also, it's Mirwais produced. I'd prefer Stuart Price but...

R441 My indie artist friend was impressed but he never goes into detail about things so I couldn't tell what he thinks is impressive or if he thought it was impressive for pop music. He said it was interesting. He rarely likes anything pop but he does like Madonna. And he is straight.

"MDNA" grew on me big time, "Rebel Heart" too. Not "Hard Candy" though. Hope she stays off the street, does something nice and pop. No matter what, though, I am there the minute it gets released. Even lesser Madonna is better than 99% of what is out there now.

I loved “Give It 2 Me” from Hard Candy

Borderline. I can have it on repeat all day.

I really like it, partly because it's an unconventional change for her. There's a lot going on in the song, but on the surface, it's possible to just perceive it as a nice, midtempo, understated thing. But watch the rhyming patterns; one idiot poster on another site wrote she rhymes "pain" with "champagne". Um, no. Those two words are in the same line, the rhyme is in the next line. I'll be the first to ding her for lazy writing (Most of MDNA) but the lyrics here are very beautiful.

Ghosttown was a great song. If it would have been released in the 90s, when AC was a thing, it would have been a #1.

I loved Give It To Me from Hard Candy.

One of the gay seedy bars I go to would play it all the time. Such a fun gay club vibe. A sex song

I suspect that underneath all the reggaeton, tropical house and other flash in the pan in-trend sounds and guest appearances, there'll be a good pop album somewhere. I think someone need to prohibit her from watching MTV, listening to iHeart radio and what have you, lock her in a Paris studio with, say, Daft Punk and Giorgio Moroder, and create something that's unmistakably Madonna and rooted in her brand of dance pop, a bit retro but sounding futuristic at the same time.

MTV is actually promoting her new song and are doing a world Premiere of her music video

Madonna with Moroder would be great. Loved that last CD he did with Sia, etc. And he still understands melody.

If she wanted to go for a more "modern" sound, she'd be good with the Lana del Rey team -- only less torch singer, more pop.

She could also do a song with those DJs popular now like ZEDD or Calvin Harris. They’re hit makers.

R453 I don't think she is looking for hits, necessarily. She can write a hit herself easily. She knows how to write a great melody. That is well established. She is doing what she wants. Of course she wants people to like it but I don't think she believes #1's are likely given her age and the current state of music. She doesn't need anything further for her career. She broke all the records already.

I couldn't read through this whole thread, just the first 40 or 50 and no mention of "Into the Groove"? WTF??!! THAT'S her best song, by far. And while I wasn't (ahem) crazy about "Crazy for You" when it came out. It has grown on me over the years and now it's one of my favorites. Definitely top five.

"A lot of the staples of the Adult Contemporary market stopped recording, or they hardly record at all anymore. Anne Murray, Kenny Loggins, etc."

Dan Fogelberg...

Into the Groove?

Gambler was better!

I have great memories that song, but a current play dashed them.

I remember when it hit the radio originally; I was a little kid. But I really got into it when Something to Remember came out. It was a really shitty, lonely, time in my life. I got that album, and Crazy for You chilled me out like nothing else, so I'd listen to the album to fall asleep.

Listening to it today, the synth work is kind of magical, but Madonna's vocals are buried way back in the mix — double- or triple-tracked, with a layer of fog on top of that — and she still sounds grating.

I'd rather just listen to the instrumental parts and watch a young Matthew Modine step naked onto a locker room scale over and over again.

R458 What? Even the critics, her harshest ones, say her vocals are stellar on CFY and they are in no way double or triple tracked. GTFO with that passive-aggressive troll shit. She even garnered a Grammy Vocal nom in some stellar company and this was back when the Grammys didn't throw out noms just because you were popular. The Grammy voters hated Madonna to the point she didn't even get a nom for LAP which was a critical smash. Fuck off. You're as transparent as Casper.

Madonna sucks big time, but i do like Dress You Up

R459, R458 is a troll and apparently a drunk. It knows not what it speaks.

I'd love to see Madonna do another album with Nile Rodgers, who turned her into a superstar with Like a Virgin.

Unfortunately, Nile — who had been screwed over before — negotiated such a good deal that he made a deserved shitload of money from royalties, and Warner Bros. and Madonna didn't think they needed to pay out on that level again.

[quote]“I said, ‘Here’s the deal,” continues Rodgers. “I don’t want any money now, but if I go over the three million mark, you gotta pay me a high percentage. They were like, ‘Sure! You sell three million we’ll be jumping up and down. We’ll take the bet.’ The Like A Virgin album has sold 28million. I bet they wish they could redo that deal!”

R461, I am a drunk, but I'm sober now. Maybe that's why Crazy for You sounds worse than I remember...

I'm also a pro critic and stand by my assessment.

And Nile has said she is one of the greatest, if not the greatest, artist he has ever worked with.

R463 Bwhahahahahahaaha fraud.

R463, sounds like you need to have another drink.

And yet, R464, he also said Warner Bros. and Madonna quashed a follow-up because they didn't want to pay him the same amount for his star-making work. Look it up.

And Nile didn't blame them. Also, she was already a star by the time LAV came out. Nile gives her a lot of credit with HER making HERself a star, as well. He speaks very highly of her and her abilities.

[quote]He explains how Madonna’s label boss at Sire Records (by then part of Warner Bros), Seymour Stein, was, let’s say, economical with the truth when it came to securing his services. 'I was told her first album had sold 375,000 copies but Seymour told me the truth a few months ago in Ibiza. It was more like 200,000. I said, ‘What!?’ And he said, 'We couldn’t sell that album for nothing. People just gravitated towards the singles. 'They bought Holiday and Everybody as 12-inch records but nobody would touch the album.’

[quote]And I said, ‘So you mean at that first meeting, you guys were lying to me?’ and he replied, ‘Yeah!’ I just said, ‘Wow!’” In taking the decision to work with the relatively unknown Madonna soon after masterminding David Bowie’s best-selling album, Let’s Dance, Rodgers held all the aces. 'The reason I got such a huge producer royalty was because her first album hadn’t sold that well.'

You do know BY THE TIME LAV came out, her first album, indeed, was selling millions. She made or was making LAV before she even released Borderline.

Yes, the debut album was platinum by the early summer of 1984 due to the success of those singles. I figured they started recording Like a Virgin in the summer, after the album started selling. I wonder how much of the profits Nile demanded for his production efforts? 10 percent? 15? 20? If it was in that range, of course he would be weeded out when it came to the next album.

And Gambler was not better than Into the Groove, R457. It's strictly b-side material, Except in Britain, home of Ellie Goulding, where it was a hit. It wasn't even released in the States. And for good reason.

You're quick, R471.

The live version of Gambler kicked ass. That would have been a US hit.

The kids inc version of gambler was better lol Then again this little girl could actually sing.

To me, a non Madonna stan, Live To Tell, Like a Prayer, and Music are my favorites.

R474 Awww, passive aggressive troll is back.

Oh, I forgot to add the title track for Rebel Heart. My best friend is a huge Madonna fan and he was playing that song. I thought it was so catchy! Apparently, a lot of people hate it though...

Turn up the Radio should have been a summer hit.

R476 no i just don’t pretend this bitch has talent like you madonna weirdos.

R479 Give it up dumbass. You are obsessed with her and your attempts to discredit her talents are pedestrian at best, trollish at its most laughable.

I didn't think she had it in her anymore but I saw the trailer for the new video with Maluma and she may be back. I don't think she has filmed a video this extravagant in a long time. Now she is performing at Eurovision and Billboard Awards. She is promoting the hell out of this which, I think, means she feels she has the goods this time.

R481, She has also signed with Kelly Bush at IDPR, so she is determined to make this comeback an event.

R443, your indie artist friend is not straight. Straight guys want to bang younger Madonna not listen to her music.

R480 has been foaming at the mouth to use "pedestrian"

I liked it when I first heard it. It's bubblegum, but there it is.

R484 is pleased it learned how to use a dictionary.

I liked the passion in Madonna's early demos.

The haters are pressed and triggered asf. Very concerned she may get a comeback. I don't know if she will and don't care. She doesn't need another hit or sale. She is the most successful and has had a career no one will touch.

I wish she made music like Crazy For You again

Oh no. Is Madonna part of the Illuminati? A shill for Satan?

r490 People like this are fucking stupid. She does everything in her life the opposite of what Satan would want. Pres Bone Spurs is more in line with what the Anti-christ, or a satan follower, would be like. Look how all the evangelicals have forsaken their values for this "president"? That is the work of someone who is an agent of evil.

Crazy For You is a great pop track

I like this one. One of her better old school jams

I never gave Madonna any respect...I considered her the pop star of the day with a bunch of catchy tunes.. Then she released Ray Of Light. It is a masterpiece. It was also a fluke.

It is one of my personal favorites

It is easily one of her best. It’s sweet and cute but catchy. Great pop ballad.

It's very good song but no, she has much better singles in her catalog--Holiday, Material Girl, Live To Tell (her best ballad), Papa Don't Preach, La Isla Bonita, Like a Prayer, Express Yourself, Vogue, Take a Bow, You'll See, Frozen, Hung Up, etc.

Vogue is not better.

It’s my favorite by her.

In the Madonna rate on Popjustice, Crazy for You didn't even make Top 40!!

Blasphemy!!

OP, it's a great song and so simple. Here is the "live" version from the movie Vision Quest. I love the way she sounds on this version, she sounds very good on it minus some shakiness. What has always seperated Madonna's voice is her tone. At least prior to the Evita voice lessons, her voice was always very warm sounding.

Madonna was such a big deal in 1985 that Crazy For You knocked off the terrible We are the World from the number one spot.

It was her first real MOR hit.

Yes, it was preparation for Live to Tell.

Thank God Crazy for You knocked We are the World out of number one. It's such a shitty song. CFY has aged so much better.

R505, agreed. We are the World is the definition of a bad 80s song.