Gay Icons Bette Davis and Joan Crawford

Trog for Joan and Bunny O'Hare for Bette.

Well Trog for Joan is the obvious answer. I don't think she needed the money since she married the Pepsi guy. I'd guess she just need a little publicity.

Contractual obligations.

Bette Davis is really forthright about which of her pics were shit in her autobiography.

Um, Joan Crawford was no "wonderful actress."

[quote]Bette Davis is really forthright about which of her pics were shit in her autobiography.

For those of us who never read them, they are ?

As bad as Trog is (and it IS bad), I find it quite entertaining and I genuinely feel sorry for poor Trog at the end. Joan gave it her all - as if she were still reading lines for Mildred Pierce LOL. And I disagree - Joan was a great actress (although more of a "movie star" than actress really). Very few actors living or deceased consistently WOWED with every role. It just never happens. Davis could be amazing, but she had plenty of stinkers too.

[quote] Davis could be amazing, but she had plenty of stinkers too.

Which were?

Yes, Joan was more movie star than actor, but she gave some amazing performances.

[quote]r5 For those of us who never read them, they are ?

The story with Bette Davis is, even in the very beginning, she was a good, nervy actress (chosen by serious actor George Arliss as his costar). But her studio wasn't very prestigious and didn't know what to do with her, and put her in all kinds of stupid stuff ... like FASHIONS OF 1934 and SATAN MET A LADY. Those early, fluffy films are what she really disdained, and what caused her to try to break her contract.

She even thought the first film she won an Oscar for (DANGEROUS) was junky, and just a consolation prize for not winning the year before for a better performance (in OF HUMAN BONDAGE).

Bette hated Beyond the Forest, which of course became a camp classic. It's a bad movie, but in a good way.

Many actresses are so mannered that they just play themselves. Betty Davis was like that, as was Katherine Hepburn. What makes them fascinating then is not that they are able to transform themselves into the character in the play or the film, but that their own personalities are so vivid that you are riveted to the screen. In other words, Margo Channing is not as different from Queen Elizabeth I as their characters would likely have been in "real life", because Betty Davis was playing herself playing Margo Channing and Queen Elizabeth. In a certain way, I'd say that Joan Crawford was better able to play a variety of different character types from femme fatale, to comedienne, to strong mother, because her own personality was less vivid. NOT her looks, which were very specific and photogenic, but her personality. That doesn't make her a better actress, but perhaps a more versatile actress. Perhaps for film acting, to gain a reputation as a great actress, this vividness of personality is required, because there are so many closeups, so many opportunities for the audience to feel as though it is seeing deep into the soul of the actress - in which case, there'd better be a lot going on in there.

Someone like Meryl Streep REALLY becomes her characters, even in trashy films. A person watching Sophie's Choice could never imagine that the same actress is playing the lead in Death Becomes Her.

Bette Davis was a [bold]TERRIBLE[/bold] actress. Just awful.

Sorry to break it to you OP.

[quote]r11 I'd say that Joan Crawford was better able to play a variety of different character types from femme fatale, to comedienne, to strong mother, because her own personality was less vivid.

So why did she never actually come across as a human being?

(I should have known this whole thread was a ruse to justify stupid Joan's stupid existence.)

R12 is a TERRIBLE, horrid DL poster. Sorry to break it to you, hon.

R11 - GREAT POST! Your viewpoint is brilliantly verbalized and rings very true. R13 - please post an actress who you feel is so much better than Joan so that we can dissect her as well. The reality with actors (and artists in general) is that some will love their work and others will hate the same thing. It is hard to measure any form of art objectively and therefore we are left with subjective opinions. Just like assholes - everyone has one.

r12 = Miriam