Would a Democrat with balls please step up to the mike, and say "He promised Mexico would pay for this wall. Call them."

Because they are fucking wimps.

Thank you, OP! I said in a couple of other threads that this should be the only talking point about the wall from Democrats. Their messaging sucks.

Because the Democrats don't have any reason to troll Mexico. Everyone knows he said it. The minority of people who want the wall DON'T CARE that he said it. So what's the point of sanctioning his antagonizing of Mexico?

What magical thing do you think will happen if Pelosi or Schumer say this? Do you think Trump is going to go "D'OH! You're right! My bad!" Do you think a SINGLE deplorable who is still screaming build the wall! is going to go "D'OH! Wait, we shouldn't build it without the check from Mexico first!"

The only people who CARE that he said it don't care about the stupid wall anyway.

Where's Beto, our Knight in Shining Armor???

^ Forgot to add, and don't forget our shittastic national media will turn this into a "Dems make Mexico central player in debate on wall!" load of crap.

R3, it would be another reminder of his lies and broken promises. Chipping away at him is a marathon, not a sprint.

This point cannot be hammered home enough and used to emphasise that he made a disingenuous promise

One last thing, some Dems did in fact bring it up on the floor in Congress yesterday to point out the ridiculousness of Trump's threats.

Trump has already moved on to "the wall will pay for itself!"

The people who care already know. The people who don't care already know.

I’d like a sacrificial troll to ask Trump on camera as to why he doesn’t he “make” Mexico pay for the Wall? He could drop a small nuke in the Mexican desert as a warning. Is he afraid of Mexico? Why is he letting Mexico push him around? It’s like he’s surrendered to Mexico.

That might tie him up in knots until his bloated head explodes. I am assuming that he’d be prevented from actually nuking Mexico, though maybe I shouldn’t be so optimistic.

Can we make the Red States pay for the Wall?

As any parent would know, reason does not work when a 3 year old is throwing a tantrum

Trump (and his supporters) already weaseled out of his words several times and in several different ways. Mexico will pay, Mexico will pay indirectly, Mexico will pay via tariff/trade deals, Mexico will suffer and that's payment enough. Now we're on to the wall will pay for itself.

He lies everyday and get away with it every single time. Make zero impact to "expose" his lies, they are evident for everyone. People just don't care. Plus taunt him about this particular issues can end very badly for Mexico. Trump is a monkey with a knife.

The wall will pay for itself just like the GOP Tax Law was going to pay for itself

You can't play Gotcha! with someone this shameless. This is the man who, ONE WEEK after saying ON CAMERA that he'd own the shutdown and not blame Democrats for it, just... blamed the Democrats for the shut down.

HE doesn't care. You can't make him care. His supporters don't care. You can't make them care. All you can do is make it impossible for his enablers to enable him. That's what the Dems are and will be doing.

They should be calling Trump out as a liar.

BUILD THE STEEL SLATS! BUILD THE STEEL SLATS!

How does a wall “pay for itself”? I would love to hear a policy speech where he explains that. Not with slogans and slurs, but reason and logic.

Aside from that, aside from the 10s of billions to build a wall, it would also require so much monitoring and maintenance that it would become a bottomless pit of spending, it would not be effective, and would be mostly abandoned within 20 years. Walls do not pay for themselves. They continue to cost money.

Next it will be a toll wall where the illegals have to PAY to get through!

We should skip the border wall & plant land mines every foot for its entire length & one mile into the US.

Yeah, it's not as though any people live/work/play anywhere near the 2000+ mile border.

R18, reason and logic? What are you, crazy?

Saying that Trump said Mexico would pay for the wall gives the Dems a great reason not to vote for $5 Billion.

All they have to say is that why use American taxpayer money to pay for the wall?

The logic is excellent

To build an maintain the wall would cost at least a trillion dollars over 10 years, according to one estimate. It’s a complete money loser

“I will vote for a wall IF the bill also provides a credible and verifiable mechanism for funding from Mexico.” This should be the official position of every Democratic House member and Senator.

So, it would cost the same thing to just give a billion immigrants $1000 to move elsewhere.

We could do it with cameras, drones, dogs, and other means, much cheaper than building and maintaining a physical wall.

R23, again, the MINORITY of people who want the wall are immune to logic. All that would do is create a narrative in the press that there's a plausible path to the wall. The "both sides!" press would jump right on it, trust. EVERY FUCKING DEM CANDIDATE in 2020 will have to face endless nonsense such as "will you commit to a wall IF there were a way to get Mexico to pay for it?"

R25, why on fucking earth should any Democrat contribute to poisoning our relationship with Mexico?

NO WALL. Period. There's not plausible path to it. That's the message.

R27, the Deplorables may be moved by the rhetorical question “Why are Middle-Class Americans’ hard-earned paychecks being taxed to pay for the Wall? That’s not what Trump promised.” It’s a good question, loaded with brain-dead buzzwords that are like clickbait for Deplorables.

Why should the Democrats say anything? The Republicans control both Houses of Congress AND the Presidency. And they still can't pass legislation to keep the government open.

R16, everyone has been rightfully calling him a liar for years. It doesn't do any good. Everybody knows, and neither the GOP nor his followers care.

R28 You'd think so if you'v never actually interacted with any, but no. Go ahead, try to engage some. You'll get a barrage along the lines of "we already spend billions on welfare for illegals!" "oh sure, Obama had eleventy billion to give to the Muslim Brotherhood but now we don't have enough for national security!" "you can't put a price on our way of life!" "Trump said it will pay for itself and he knows because he's a billionaire!" and other such nonsense.

Remember, they're still screaming "build the wall" when Trump has repeatedly changed what he meant by "wall." The wall isn't a wall. It's rhetoric. There's no logic or thinking behind any of this. It's pure racist Id on overdrive.

[quote] "oh sure, Obama had eleventy billion to give to the Muslim Brotherhood but now we don't have enough for national security!"

You exaggerate but that's not too far from the truth.

It's true that most people overstay their visas but at least they go through security. Some type of impediment is needed, perhaps not a wall, that could be reinforced as needed, to prevent drug and child trafficking. It wouldn't eliminate border protection but make their jobs much easier.

The DP is useless. I don't know why people keep thinking the same people will do something different. It's called madness isn't it?

Otoh I get shouted down when I say tone for another party. But then why should I expect the American people to think and act differently? That would be madness on my part too.

Here you go R28: try and reason with the nonsense at R33! How much should taxpayers be not willing to spend on "security" (LOL) and "preventing drug and child trafficking" (double LOL).

He said he would own the shut down too but now he is blaming Democrats. He is a fucking cunting moron.

I’ve heard about 20 democratic politicians saying “Trump promised Mexico would pay for the wall.” Pay fucking attention, OP.

This from Mrs Betty Bowers:

ADDERALL: Side effects include restlessness, dizziness, lack of sleep, and shutting down the entire US government in an childish pique over a silly campaign gimmick.

I’ve heard about 20 democratic politicians saying “Trump promised Mexico would pay for the wall.” Pay fucking attention, OP.

This from Mrs Betty Bowers:

ADDERALL: Side effects include restlessness, dizziness, lack of sleep, and shutting down the entire US government in an childish pique over a silly campaign gimmick.

The right wing commentariat are subversives who are trying to overthrow the US govt. that’s the real truth. They hate the US govt, they are not secretive about it. People who try to subvert and destroy our government are anti American radicals

OP's "oh YEAH???" comeback is a bad move tactically. It says, "sure we need to build a wall, but you said Mexico would pay for it." The first part of that sentence is the problem. If you are walking about where the money comes from, you are conceding that it's not objectionable to BUILD A FUCKING WALL between Mexico and the USA.

So the idiotic promise to get Mexico to pay for it doesn't matter. It's the idiotic promise to build it in the first place that matters.

walking about = talking about

R40 Hypothetically speaking, if we already had a wall, no one would be calling to tear it down. The question is not whether or not a wall would be effective, it's if its worth it.

Democrats will lose in 2020.

Sure, Donald Trump lied but didn't Nancy Pelosi say that wall funding wouldn't pass the house?

Even if he gets funds for the wall, it'll be years before all the eminent domain lawsuits are settled. It is weird that his supporters are perfectly fine with the government seizing private property along the border for a stupid wall. However, if they do end up building it, they could put solar panels on top, and it might pay for itself by providing clean energy.

I still think the Dems ought to keep repeating:

“Trump is a liar...”

“Why are we being asked to pay our tax money for a wall that ain’t work?...”

Etc. the Deplorables will peel off slowly over time. Don’t argue with them, just keep stating the facts.

Trump and his cult repeat their lies endlessly until people started to believe that Hillary was corrupt (with no evidence); that “her emails” meant something sinister (still not clear on what); that “Benghazi” meant something, that Obama was born in Africa, and on and on. We have the advantage of “reality & truth”. I’m not suggesting we argue with anyone - just keep repeating the obvious: Trump lies, nothing he claims should ever be taken as true; Trump colluded with Russia; Trump said this Wall was not going to cost us tax money, etc.

R44, please don’t convolute a prediction Pelosi made that may not have come true, with the 6000 of the most egregious lies Trump has told in less than 2 years that have been catalogued by the WaPo. Everybody on here is bright enough to understand the difference.

R42/R44 trying so hard. Bless.

R44 = eater of poo

[quote] R44: Sure, Donald Trump lied but didn't Nancy Pelosi say that wall funding wouldn't pass the house?

R44 is a good example of whataboutism. Though, I prefer the more classic:

[italic] Sure, Donald Trump lied, but what about Hillary’s emails? [/italic]

Sure Donald Trump lied, but didn't Nancy Pelosi goad his fragile ego into pulling this stupid stunt by taunting him that he didn't have the votes?

The DNC should run a commercial day a night that is nothing more than clips of Trump saying Mexico would pay for the wall. And then at the end ask, "what happened to that promise?" And then they should run an ad with all the clips of him saying he'll replace Obamacare with the best healthcare and how he has the best plan that will cover more and be cheaper and end that with, "what happened to that promise?" And finally, they need an ad with clips of everything he said he would do and end it with, "so mnany broken promises."

[quote][R40] Hypothetically speaking, if we already had a wall, no one would be calling to tear it down. The question is not whether or not a wall would be effective, it's if its worth it.

No, that's not the question. It's already basically a fact that the wall would not be effective.

But why change the subject and "speak hypothetically," when we know the wall is a fucking stupid campaign promise made to appeal to morons, and a colossal waste of money the government doesn't even have, thanks to Trump's rich-man tax cut?

[quote] R51: Sure Donald Trump lied, but didn't Nancy Pelosi goad his fragile ego into pulling this stupid stunt by taunting him that he didn't have the votes?

She did. And? This doesn’t excuse his lies. This doesn’t excuse him for pulling this stunt. That’s on him, 100%. We can’t start arguing “Sure Trump is incompetent, but it’s her fault for not catering to his colossal inadequacies.” There would be no end of that rabbit hole.

Besides, it was Right Wing pundits who were the proximate cause for Trumps surrender, reversal, and weak response, if that matters to you.

He's not pulling this shit because Pelosi goaded him into it. He's reacting to Anne Culter and his base calling him a coward for not fighting for the wall. He was quite literally losing the deplorables.

Good Tweet frm Rep Joe Kennedy III

Old enough to remember the time in 2018 when Trump/Ryan/McConnell shut down the government because we couldn’t afford $3.4B for health care for low-income kids. But please, lecture us about how spending $5B on an ineffective wall is in our national interest. #TrumpShutdown

R54, I'm not excusing him at all. I was responding to the Poo-ish nonsense at R44.

Oh, ok, sorry for misunderstanding.

In this bizarro Trump world, it’s so hard to know what is tragedy and what is farce!

Beto with the perfect response. Lots of good info in the responses to him as well.

R27 — it’s call trolling the troll. American would get it. Well most Americans would. I don’t know if you’re American but your reply shows that you’re iron(y) deficient. Might want to eat some spinach.

PS Mexico wil never fund this wall. Never. Hence the joke. Thought I’d explain it to you.

R25, trolling the troll is fine for social media and pundits. Not for "official" positions which carry significance in international diplomacy. Believe it or not, lots of people (and not just Americans) still take that stuff seriously.

And no, most Americans don't get irony and many of the ones who do don't want to see it in their leaders. For fucks sake, most Americans don't even have a clue what actually happens in government, you think they have the time or inclination to parse out whether their voting for a platform that is sincere or "ironic."

Why does the wall have to run across the entire border? Can't we prioritize areas that really need it? The Wall is part of border security, it isn't the only border security solution.

If a Dem would do it then Trump, the Deplorables, and the Right Wing Media would insist that it's the Dems who cause an international conflict (not just an incident) with Mexico by reminding everyone that Mexico was supposed to pay for the wall (according to Trump which - of course - Trump, the Deplorables, or the Right Wing Media never acknowledge).

That was already done years ago R62. Do catch up.

Trump unveils new border barrier. Those who try to go over would certainly risk getting impaled.

Easy solution, R65.

So, Trump thinks that Trying to enter the US illegally, such as to harvest vegetables, deserves the death penalty? And via torture, too. Nice!

Steel slats.

Could it be that Trump's wall (steel slats) is made with Russian steel (aluminum)? As with the recent sanctions lifted on a Russian aluminum maker. Whose funds have been diverted to the VTB. The same bank that was involved in Trump Moscow?

You know, there's something fishy going on. And that's not a moray!

Craven fucker Mitch McConnell on the floor claiming he totes supports the wall and the $5 billion but alas there's nothing he can do because of those damn librulz.

Well, he could go nuclear option, but I guess he doesn't support the wall *that* much.

The most bad ass Democrats have ovaries!

Right. Dems with balls? No such thing.