Chris Watts is in Wisconsin, dammit!

Of course the appallingly annoying brats that belong to these people destroy all the listening pleasure, but aside from that, the interview is good.

The next people to disappear from this neighborhood better be these annoying Lindstrom brats from hell.

why did he not bury the sheet with Shanann's body? Why leave it on top of the ground, where it would inevitably be seen?

He's not very bright in some ways, r2. But he was thinking ahead, proving premeditation. He allegedly left his turd and used TP visible to prove he had stopped by the site to take a dump, to explain why he had been there..

He carried toilet paper? Huh.

Lesbian Thriver

R4, I read it was paper towel.

I thought the sheet being visible was because he didn’t have time to dig a grave deep enough. And this is purely my imagination, but I think she was barely covered and the wind blew the top, shallow layer of dry dirt away pretty quickly.

And both kids attended Primrose day care.

I’ve spent several hours perusing the SM accounts of THRIVERS.

These people really are nuts. They are sticking something on their body that is the equivalent of an energy drink, minus the calories. I genuinely cannot believe that they are selling this shit for so much money, or that people are buying it.

Unbelievable.

And I wouldnt discount the fact everyone was cracked out on caffeine played a part too

R8, no doubt the Thrive shit played some part in this. It’s impossible to find out exactly WHAT is in these patches. I’m convinced it was legal speed, some kind of amphetamines.

Shanann and Chris seemed to get very little sleep. (It wasn’t because of the kids, because we know the kids were sleep-trained.). I picture them spazzing around like Sara in “Requiem for a Dream” and panicking if they started running low on patches.

Although there’s room for doubt, because those Thrive people were a bunch of fat fucks. If they were all fit and trim and healthy-looking, they’d sell more of that shit. No wonder she was desperate to keep Chris around — he was a great marketing tool!

There was a point when he was doing conference calls with her, but he was not a charismatic dude. He looked good, but he was not a salesperson. (He seemed quite Aspie to me.) He went along on some of those trips, but I’m sure he’d rather be doing car shit or sticking his penis in a butt.

Oh my god, I could talk about these people forever.

R9

But... Why? Because you think he is attractive and you hope he might be gay?

Shan’ann had a decent body. She was a wife and mother of two. She was stick thin, but it didn’t look bad. She was still attractive, and had she lost about 15 more lbs, she would have had a smoking body.

The kids one of the posters was referring to were the out of control, bat-shit crazy Lindstro kids. The interview of the police interviewing them is unbearable. You want to reach through the scree and kill THOSE kids.

The Lindstroms were long-time friends and their daughter McKenna was Chris baby-sitter that Saturday he went to the Rockies game.

Why do the cops only look at things with their flashlights? I suppose they want to see things one at a time, but it still seems frustrating to me that they don't turn the overhead lights on. You can't see anything with a fucking flashlight.

Here’s their THRIVE master. Listen to this asshole put everyone down for not THRIVING to his expectations...

These are the people Chris and Shan’ann wanted to be!

That guy is really fug R15. Another one using facial hair. It's so disappointing when ugly guys wear their hair long. Compensating for the plain face. Even a nose job couldn't lift him into 8 territory.

Another THRIVE family...

Holy crap R17! That wannabe tacky castle house. It's just wrong.

At R1. He thinly veils his contempt for Shannon. They both despise her.

They're basically saying SW is a control freak, malingering phony, attention seeking, friendless fraud of a witch. The interviewer and kids are annoying. Couldn't get through it.

So what happened to the woman from Hawaii who was helping them out?

R18, I believe that couple in particular have some money, via a trust fund, inheritance, or high earner(s). The guy loves his bikes.

He’s actually pretty cute, and his wife seems sweet and normal.

Now, the couple at R15 are absolutely fucking nauseating. Ugh x 1,000,000

"Shan’ann had a decent body. She was a wife and mother of two. She was stick thin, but it didn’t look bad. She was still attractive, and had she lost about 15 more lbs, she would have had a smoking body."

Agreed. I'm a gay woman, and my thought looking at her wedding photo was she was too hot for Chris. It seems like marriage made her a little haggard (she looked tired and sick in all those videos) but she was looking pretty shapely for a pregnant woman.

Chris's friend Lindstrom seems like a douchebag.

“We’re dumbfounded. We don’t get it. Lost,” he added. “It’s just horrible. Why do people do this? Why does it come down to this?” "“He would reach out and help anybody that needed help with anything,” he said. “He was a good mechanic if you needed help with your car – he’d help you. If you needed help with furniture, he’d be over there in a heartbeat to help you out. You don’t know what, when, why, where or how everything goes weird.”"

All that distancing language, like Chris's family. As if it was something that just "happened" or his frau drove him to. As if a douchebag being a helpful mechanic says something about whether he'd stuff a toddler in an oil tank.

R21, you think she was stick thin and could have lost 15 more pounds? Not understanding the lesbian world.

This is an interesting interview with a lawyer Shanann tried to get free legal advice from. What she was scared of was losing the kids to Chris. Which would have been interesting. Shanann having to pay child support and facing jail if Thrive didn't pan out for her. I think it was before her trip to NC.

That really fun neighbor who didn't give a shit about offending Chris and who told the cops he was acting totally suspiciously, also told the cops they (Shanann and Chris) were having top-volume screaming matches. I wish he had said more about what those fights were about. Meanwhile, this Nigerian lawyer claims Shanann was pissed about the first divorce because she claims she put the first husband through law school and got taken to the cleaners in the divorce ----- which I find laughable.

The narky neighbor looks like a fatter, taller Jon Favreau, all I could think of was "Swingers".

The woman from Hawaii was the friend going back to teenage days, Christina. She had a Spanish accent, don't know where she's from. She's a thriver too.

When Shanann had the recent neck surgery, her husband was deployed overseas somewhere, so Christina and her kid came to stay with Shanann and Chris and the girls ---- to help her, because she was not going to be able to life the girls for a while. She apparently also paid for the household groceries though there are no videos I can recall that feature Christina at all during that time period. So there is little mention of Christinas help.

^^lift not life.

Cruel

I am trying to figure out how he smothered the girls. Tried it on myself last night. I can breathe through a down pillow. Maybe it has to be a fiberfill pillow? I tried smashing down really hard to figure out if force could eventually stop air flow, but as I said ---- I could breathe through down.

How does strangulation/smothering work? I am assuming they lost their bowels as they died ---- hence the need for Chris to clean up (the dog handler said the house reeked of cleaning chemicals) and to keep the ceiling fans going. But why didn't the dogs pick up on that? Was he that good at cleaning that quick?

I think he killed the girls first. If he hadn't done that, he could have postponed the entire operation till a time when he had more time to do it. Giving himself only 2 hours was huge. A giant mistake. He would have wanted three times that number of hours to really handle all the details, but given that the kids were dead, he had to go through with it.

WTF was THAT R27? Maudlin bullshit?

This is DL!

Have some pride.

seriously r28? You can't figure out how a grown man could smother two girls who weighed 40 pounds at most? Of course you can't do it to yourself, you have self preservation, that's why people who hang or suffocate tie their arms so they aren't compelled to save themselves. It's totally different if someone 4 times your size does it to you.

Rich coming from you R29. Try the pillow trick a little longer this time. 😅

"[R21], you think she was stick thin and could have lost 15 more pounds? Not understanding the lesbian world."

Nope I think the poster above me meant to write "she *wasn't* stick thin", because they said she could have lost 15 lbs.

She was probably normal for a pregnancy. But once she had the baby, she wouldn't have lost too much weight to bounce back. Her weight seems to have gone mostly to her thighs and boobs, which is flattering.

"That really fun neighbor who didn't give a shit about offending Chris and who told the cops he was acting totally suspiciously, also told the cops they (Shanann and Chris) were having top-volume screaming matches. I wish he had said more about what those fights were about. "

Me too.

It was interesting that he commented "and he gets crazy" in those fights. Not "they get crazy". From his outward demeanor you would have thought it might have been her as the standout crazy in the fight but no.

I found it very chilling when at OP's interview a kid pipes in around 35:26 and says: "I just picture them sitting in a hole, I don't know why." Someone should look into little brat a little more.

There is a video of Christina's interview with police. I'll see if I can find a link.

Also, I was very impressed with the Nigerian lawyer's recall of his random conversation from months before with a stranger. He even remembered that her blouse had elastic at the bottom. If you read the YouTube comments under the video you get a good idea of the intelligence you encounter when speaking about this case.

Agreed R35.

And along those lines, R30, get a grip. I know he was able to do it, I am trying to figure out what he had to do to do it. I am an average adult, pretty strong actually, so I am sure occluding my airways would be a challenge. Still I was surprised at how hard that really is to do ---- for about 5 minutes no less. What exactly did CW have to do to kill his little girls?

It is the kind of thing we don't think about. But it is the kind of thing I think people SHOULD think about. It keeps him from seeming like Mr. Milquetoast. In the same way other posters here have commented on how it is way easier to think of Shanann as the shrill bossy type, when the neighbors comments suggest that behind closed doors, CW was scary.

R35, the comments from the league of Frauen who have canonized Shanann on YouTube are absolutely stunning.

"the comments from the league of Frauen who have canonized Shanann on YouTube are absolutely stunning."

I was shocked by the big #s of frauen commenting on Shanann's videos with bitchy comments. I was expecting a lot of "RIP Shanann and babies" and they're ripping her, sometimes for apparently innocuous comments. One vid had her trying to hawk the thrive bars for a couple minutes, and they acted like she was beating her child (who was whining).

I wonder if they're blinded by lust for Chris or if it's cognitive dissonance so they don't have to think their husbands as threats, if Shanann brought it on herself.

Smothering them is nothing! Try stabbing them while they are on your lap like I..I mean like the band of roving hippies did to mine.

Ha Frau's in the vicinity are about to overrun his new location with letters and multiple pairs of their colored bloomers.You desperate bitches will literally fuck anything....that's brave enough to violate your bushy knolls.

r23, the stupid fraus think that Shanann bought that big house in NC with the proceeds from her first divorce.

First of all, that guy was in law school or just starting out. It’s not as if, upon graduation, every lawyer is a partner at a white-shoe firm. I know tons of lawyers and most of them are regular old middle-class. A JD doesn’t guarantee wealth, not by a long shot.

Her ex lives in a modest ranch and is an assistant public defender. He wasn’t rich then and he isn’t rich now. (Which may be why she lost interest in him.). His wife tried promoting Thrive (prob a SAHM trying to make a few extra bucks) and quit.

They were only married for a short time, didn’t have or accrue any weath, and didn’t have kids. Usually in cases like that, both parties walk away with what they brought to the marriage, and nobody gets alimony.

This was also the time during which she was working for Hisham and banging him and allegedly embezzling money from ‘their’ business. There was a lot of shady shit going on with her. ALLEGEDLY.

R38, either women canonize her valiantly or pick her apart mercilessly. I haven’t seen anyone slobbering over Chris. A few feel sorry for him, but I don’t see any women expressing any sexual interest in him. There are a few comments here that do, but I don’t think many are even serious.

Are you the same person who thinks everyone criticizing Meghan Markle is just jealous that she married a prince? It’s such an odd conclusion to draw, that someone criticizing a woman is jealous of her man.

The Frauen that have invaded these threads are almost as annoying as the dingbats in the YouTube comments. At least here we've gotten past "but they didn't deserve to be murdered," but they're not quite ready to accept that a man can be pushed over the edge by a grifting wife who they then murder.

"Are you the same person who thinks everyone criticizing Meghan Markle is just jealous that she married a prince?"

Nope, and no offense, but I'm bored by the idea that people are fighting on the internet pro/con Meghan Markle. I'm a true crime lover - got to be a little more drama.

"It’s such an odd conclusion to draw, that someone criticizing a woman is jealous of her man."

I'm not quite sure what's going on with those women. I was a bit shocked - I'm not used to seeing the level of psychotic in the youtube comments, aimed at a murder victim, in relatively normal videos.

Of course, I do think Chris's appearance probably plays a part. You don't really see hundreds of women going to bat for Phil Spector.

I have been finding over at youtube, that any comment even remotely critical of the kids ----whether Bella and Cece, or the other kids at birthday parties, or the baby sitter or Scooby Nikole's son...… holy shitbag, Batman, those women go NUTS! "How dare you attack a CHILD!!! Have you no shame????" they bellow.

Uh no. Apparently I have no shame. Some kids in this world are ugly, some are stupid, some are the victims of self-centered parenting, some are just plain useless. What is the age at which we can note that? Go to sleep at 17 and you're an innocent babe, but all bets are off the morning you turn 18, or 21?

These people are so invested in their parenting as the measure of a life well-lived that the merest hint that something might be below par is cause for gathering the automatic weapons.

I have to wonder what American society is going to look like when all of those sainted darlings are senior citizens, annihilating anyone who dares throw a ball in their yard, or set foot on their lawns. Because lord knows, they are entitled.

forgive if this shows up twice. Thought I had successfully posted this, but it appears to have disappeared. It is a video of the high-level security operation required to extract Dieter, the Wiener dog, from the Watts residence.

The female cop whose body cam we watch here, is insane. In fact, the cops seem to be losing their shit in general.

R46, I haven’t watched the video, but I remember reading that the friend Jeanna Dietz gave them the dog and asked if they could have him back if no one else wanted him. Poor little guy.

He has been handed over to Frankie Rzucek. Over at reddit they showed a picture. On the same day they posted the court records from the case 2 years ago in which Frankie beat up his girlfriend's 2 year old child, and gave her a black eye.

Poor little Dieter.

Do you suppose Chris Watts ever asked himself what he would do if Shanann's plane was delayed? There he was with dead bodies in the house. If he left to go bury bodies, and Shanann got home, she'd call the cops immediately.

Seems he may have made a rather fatal error in planning.

Her plane was delayed. He probably was checking the flight schedule. If it departed, it show that.

Let's just say she didn't get home till say 8 AM. Cancels doctor's appt cuz shell be too tired. Gets home only to find dead girls and scary chris, who kills her.

THEN what? He has to wait another whole day to dispose of bodies, right? Can't do it in the light of day. Can't just go out to the jobsite and unload bodies. Has to wait till Tuesday morning, at which point, Bella and Cece are starting to stink.

Cadaver dogs'll have a field day. Has to burn the house down?

Does he just lam it? The Thrivers would probably leave her alone if he sent texts saying she was sleeping in. Could he get to Mexico?

Just trying to figure out how this would have worked if he had functioning brain cells......

R26, it has been assumed by many that he smothered the girls with his bare hands.

He might have sat on them, on their arms as well, and cupped their mouths with one hand, and held their nostrils shut with another hand. He may have put them in a sleeper choke hold before suffocating them. I believe he definitely did the sleet hold on Shan’ann.

I personally believe he did it with pillows or bundled bedding. Either way, it took quite a bit of time for those girls to die.

In OP's video, the interviewee makes some good observations about Shannon. But....then he also suggests that she might have planned her "disappearance" to get the attention she craved. I'll bet he's getting some nasty looks around town when he encounters the fraus.

R51, he’s a goddamn idiot. He should have left them all behind and gone off with his backdoor-loving princess.

And, judging from the way certain child deaths are dismissed as accidents, he could have left them in a hot car. And of course, vehicular manslaughter is always forgiven if you stay at the scene and act remorseful. Or, hell, he could have “accidentally” given them tree nuts.

Then he could be inconsolable and broken and all the good christian folks would forgive him but his marriage wasn’t strong enough to withstand the strain of his mistakes and he had to cut Shanann loose. Oh, but there was Niko...

Oh well he was pretty much fucked no matter what, wasn’t he?

They didn't have a life-threatening tree nut allergy and killing them in a hot car would have still left Shanann and the unborn baby. He should have taken her to Aspen and had her "accidentally" fall off a cliff, people would have bought it if he told them she was trying to take the perfect selfie to post on Facebook and slipped. Killing the kids was too greedy and I don't see how he could have gotten away with it.

Will he be able to get time off his sentence for good behavior? I sure hope so.

I wear leg warmers, not Thrive patches. Those fat Le-Vel frauen should try aerobics. It's what I do.

How does any human being not kill himself with absolutely zero possibility of ever being allowed out of that cage?

Also: Is there any possibility that this idiot is covering for NK? Feeling noble at keeping her safe, out of prison..... and that possibly giving him enough self-esteem to not kill himself?

Shan’ann fucked up. She should have gotten into real estate, and stayed single after her 1st divorce.

She could have whored around and traveled all through her 30s, then met some hot dude who had his shit together in her 40s, and settled down. No THRIVE, no Chris, no kids, no baggage, no oil field burial.

I know Frauen hate this option, but I’m telling you all right now, staying single while young is the way to go. Live a full life while you can still walk upright, ladies. Marry later in life, unless you just MUST have some kids.

We are better suited for long term companionship LATER in life. By then, we know ourselves pretty well. We have normal and reasonable expectations and are more easygoing and accepting of others.

Getting married young is almost always a huge mistake, and most people do not have the skills required to navigate through challenges within a relationship at a young age.

It’s a shame that we’ve all been brainwashed to believe that we have to be married and saddled with children before we hit 30. This is only a good idea if we’re committed to becoming parents, and unfortunately, many of us aren’t cut out to be parents. That’s not a criticism either. That’s just the truth, and men AND women would both be wise to understand and acknowledge what category they fall into, before they start having children.

I also thought Shanann would be good in real estate. At least the sales and the hustle part. I just don't know haw smart she was or if she was capable of anything more then selling Thrive or working at a tire counter.

When they first moved to Colorado they both worked at the Ford dealership (where they met Jeremy Lindstrom) and he said she was their top salesperson.

She had to leave during her second pregnancy because of her "health challenges" 🙄

R59, I agree with you, except for one thing. Many of the people I know who stay single say that they get set in their ways and not having to compromise and share, so it’s difficult to be a couple living together.

But yeah. People shouldn’t get married or have kids just because it’s “what you do”. Shanann would have been just fine as you described.

Real estate wouldn't work for Shannon. Real estate agents still post a lot of pics on social media, but the pics of or houses rather than themselves.

Shannon needed the husband and kids as content for social media. A bunch of fraus aren't going to want to read posts about a woman traveling the world and experiencing great food.

In the South and in Flyover land, a woman HAS to produce kids; the pressure is unbearable.

R58, that’s what I’m coming to believe. I can’t recall (I’m sure it happens, though) a headline case where the accused pled guilty to MURDER immediately. They always take that shit to trial, because all you need is one person with reasonable doubt.

I’m sure he took the bullet for her. Not saying she killed anyone, but she had more involvement than she claims. She begged investigators not to confirm her alibi. The phone ping. Deleting data from her phone. Her internet searches and activity.

The defense allegedly brought the deal to the DA, so it was his idea. I agree that he thinks he was being noble. Stupid Captain Save-A-Ho. And she threw him under the bus.

What phone ping?

r59, women cannot wait until their 40s to get married. What world do you live in? If a women does not marry by the time she is 35 at the very latest, then it is not ever happening. Men can marry at any age but women have to be much more on top of it or they miss their chance.

R67 ...and why is that? Sexism ingrained into culture that picks everything woman apart. Look at greying hair, on a man, distinguished, on a woman, witchy. There's all this bias about women aging, so of course society is turned off by it. I can't stand bio arguements anymore, because it's obvious that's made with bias as well. That's evident by the way certain natural behaviors, that wouldn't favor men are completely ignored (like how males are typically the ones that have to pretty up) and how they ignore teenagers weren't going through puberty until later than they do now (even now, with earlier puberty, athletic females still lag behind) or that pregnancy is/ was likely to be fatal to teens.

If it became acceptable for women to wait, men wouldn't get away with that entitled attitude, cause the majority of women would be doing the same thing as men always choose to do. So if they wanted to marry, they'd need to find a woman that wants to.

I'm not gonna even get too into the baby thing too much, cause even medical info is subjected to ingrained sexism; But until recently, every problem with a baby was automatically attributed to being a flaw with women. They're finally bothering to look into issues with sperm, which makes sense, since it's always regenerating (more chances for genetic fuck ups, where women's eggs are all there, from birth on.) Autism was blamed on women's ages, but surprise, there's evidence it may be connected to the male's age. They finally just bothered to gather info on why IVF is being used so much, and so far, at least 30% of IVF procedures have to do with infertility with the males alone! It's like men blaming women for daughters throughout history, when sperm determines sex.

Social patterns could change, if people stopped buying into bias.

Her phone pinged in Frederick the morning of the murders R66.

R69, some were trying to explain it away. Apparently, she didn’t have to be IN Frederick for her phone to ping off the Frederick tower, it was just the nearest tower to where she was.

The explanation is that she was driving to work when her phone pinged there. But if she was taking her usual route to work, she’d have pinged there regularly. She seemed to work in the office, not the field, so you’d think she’d be on the same route at the same time regularly.

We will not get any more answers because the DA said this it not a witch hunt and the case is closed.

So the trashy Jersey showgirl / life coach / con artist has somehow ingratiated herself with the Rzucek family. She recently posted videos talking about phone conversations she recently had with Shanann’s brother and mother. Frankie video taped this to prove that it’s true.

Golightly was invited down to the family home in NC and she plans to go. Evidently the mother relates to her as a fellow Jersey girl. The family is upset at the media coverage and the 20/20 piece in particular. They’re looking to this You Tube whore to help set things right.

This family is either grasping at straws or just plain dumb.

R69, r70

Where did you read or hear that NK's phone pinged in or near Frederick the morning of the murders. That is so fishy ( in more ways than one)!

She's a guilty one, that Nikki.

The insane frau above, in denial about aging in women, needs to take a Xanax. Marriage? Not happening past 40. Deal with it.

Has she ever been questioned re stalking the Watts? She searched SW a year before she met chris. Why aren't NK questions being asked by the cops?

R73 = Donald Trump. A woman over 40 can marry a man in his 80s. Us young 70-sters want a younger model. Sad!

R73

Are you gay man?

Kessinger made a one minute call to the guy friend who has keys to her house at 6:16am the morning if the murders. It was logged as out of Frederick

Thank you r77!

I would love to hear an interview with Nichol Kessinger’s mysterious houseguest/friend Jim. I hope some news outlet finds him and pays enough to get him to spill what he knows.

Christ on a cracker, you should see the FB groups with all their Bella birthday shit. (Today would have been her birthday.)

Fraus decorating cakes and doing balloon releases and crying their eyes out.

R79, well, maybe he will, since Nichol Kessinger is going into Witness Protection and she won’t be able to contact him to bitch him out.

R68, agree with many of your points.

Women feel pressured to compete with younger women? Let them. A man in my age group will be happier with me. I’m smart, I’m in excellent shape, I still look really good and I have a beautiful face.

I can I intelligently converse about almost anything, and I’m much kinder to myself, and the world at large, due to being older.

Dating older doesn’t scare me or turn me of.

Any good man out there wins the jackpot by getting me. If he wants a 25 year old, then he’s obviously not for me.

R73, women in their 40s and over marry all the time.

Society is steadfast in promoting the opposite of this. That’s ok. I know better and have seen better.

You think we become a pile of dust in our 40s? Maybe some do, but plenty no longer do.

Wake up. Middle aged women are fucking, dating, and getting married to really great guys.

Hollywood propagates the agist BS. Lots of times, a man his 60s and 70s is paired with a leading lady in her 40s, 32, and even 20s. Women in their mid-30s are cast to play the "mothers" of teenagers. In real life that's ONLY happening if the man is rich and/or famous, and the woman wants to piggyback off his money/fame., or the woman is insecure and in search of an authority figure.

It might be worth it to the man if he gets some sex out of the arrangement, and maybe makes his friends and acquaintances envious of his trophy. But does he really enjoy it when it's obvious to the whole world that she seems him as an ATM, and at night, she closes her eyes and fantasizes about someone her own age instead of the winked grandpa in bed with her.

r83, you keep telling yourself that. You too, r82.

I got married at 23, pretty much a disaster. I stayed single until I remarried at 44 & I'm incredibly happy. My partner is my best friend. We are both childless by choice. What fucks it up for folks is being desperate to have children. Children usually adversely impact a relationship. I've met so many women that *still* wanted kids in their early to mid-forties. That's what lessens your chance for marriage/remarriage. Either having kids or wanting them too late in life. Hard facts...

R85, what do you have to gain by trying to douse 40+ women's hopes for marriage? Are you a 20-something lady who wants all the hot grandpas for yourself?

For r79

Nichol's Jim:

Who is going to call him?

Look ladies, if you want to be feminists, lose the idea of marriage being the endpoint. Men are terrified of being poor and see marriage as a financial drain. One of you said fucking, dating and marrying past the age of 40. I'd agree with the fucking and saying but not the marrying.

Not really seeing your anxiety over this issue. Feminists recognize the fact that being a nurse with a purse is not a consummation devoutly to be wished

Whoa! Breaking news! The feds are putting Nicole into witness protection!!! Makes you wonder how bad it got!!!

R71, I never watched that quack's videos, until I kept seeing them come up in these threads. When she started fan-girling about SW's mother potentially calling her, my finger started hovering over the delete button. But when she promised the brother that she would bring "good sweets from Jersey" and mentioned ENTENMENNS, I could listen no more.

More Jim Gutoski:

Only lower class think that you must by 30, R59.

R67? Not in my world. You've just settled your graduate degree by then. Then again, so sure you don't hail from my world.

[Quote]!{3-.“Big things will happen this year, Dreams will come true. That smile (that stare), that laugh (that giggle) gets me every time!! You are truly an amazing, inspirational and electric woman that takes my breath away every time I see you! You are wonderful! Don’t EVER stop being you,” Watts wrote in a July 3 birthday card to Kessinger.p

Sorry, gotta stop being me 😘, Nichol

I don't think RadarOnline/The Inquisitor are accurate sources. Radar posted about evidence that would show Shanann was beaten severely before her death, they make up this stuff up to get clicks. There is a big difference between changing your name and entering witness protection, I doubt Colorado would even have the resources for this.

R91, I’m wondering if this isn’t sensationalized a bit... First of all, does the Federal Witness Protection Program just go ahead and ANNOUNCE that they’re taking someone into the program? Doesn’t that defeat the purpose?

Secondly, who is she being protected from? Chris Watts is in prison for life. He doesn’t have organized crime associates who will come after her for NOT putting him in prison. If anyone is making death threats, that’s what the police are for. They can (as she well knows, LOL) trace phone calls and use surveillance.

Thirdly, the case never went to trial, so she was never called to give sworn testimony. She’s NOT A WITNESS. If anyone is mad at the person who put Chris Watts in jail, they may as well put the nosy neighbor and Nickole Utoft-Atkinson in Witness Protection, too.

And fourthly, in an actual Federal Witness Protection Program, you cannot contact anyone you used to know. And they cannot contact you. That’s kind of the point. She’s going to give up contact with her family and friends forever — because some internet people were MEAN to her?

What probably happened is that she left the state (she told the police that’s what she was going to do, per discovery) and got herself a name change. I don’t think it’s some government program funded by taxpayers. She did her own version, and that’s what they’re calling it. She got some contacts and bleached her hair. It’s easy to blend in when you’re a basic Becky.

Thanks for the scoop on Jim, r88 & others. In her interview, Nichol REALLY did not want authorities to contact him — even though they emphasized it was just to confirm her whereabouts.

R98, TY for your logical deduction. Brilliant post.

R99, and did they? There’s no mention of whether they contacted Jim. Which, you know, they really should have done.

The DA wrapped this case up much too quickly. Three months from missing persons report to his incarceration. They missed a spot.

CBI never contacted Jim per Nichol's pleading to "leave him out of this!"

They never even knew his identity. He was found via Nichol's female friend's FB account. She DID speak to authorities and was the one who released the "sex" and "pussy licking" texts from Nichol aka Jane Doe.

Nichol did inquire in her police interview 2 how to change one's identity. This was back in August.

R98

Per law, "potential" witnesses are allowed to enter the WPP. They are obligated to protect anyone who provided testimony that was crucial to the conviction. There dies NOT need to be a trial. See attached statute.

R102, it’s SO hinky.

And regarding name change, I bet she got a judge to seal her name change request. Ordinarily, it’s public record. As much as I can’t stand her, it would be justified.

R103 Nichol also requested protection in police interview 2. Listen for yourself. Why?

SHE IS GUILTY!

R103, interesting. You’re right.

However, I will continue to argue that she should not be enjoying Witness Protection. She did not provide any information leading to a conviction. Her boyfriend fell on his own sword so she didn’t have to swear on a bible and testify in court.

She gave the police nothing. In fact, they had to work around her obstructions.

Pfffft.

R106 Agree. I AM wondering, though, if CBI and LE believed her testimony to be crucial. If so, why? Because she gave them motive? Isn't that how the DA summed it up?

Funny how Nichol turned out to be NOTHING like Amber Frey. The most hated woman in the world vs. a hero! Guess she learned nothing from her Google searches! Especially how to cooperate with LE.

R107, that’s probably the only value her interviews had: She confirmed that she had sex with him. And it does seem she was a bit of a bargaining chip for them. Plead/confess and we’ll leave your girlfriend alone.

I wish I could leave this wrapped up, but I think she’s guilty of more than sleeping with a married man (that’s pretty ho-hum). She was a lot more involved than Amber Frey.

Absolutely r108! It is really bothersome. I also believe that she was involved. The phone call to Jim while CW was burying the bodies that pinged from Frederick? Her insistence not to involve Jim? He knew something. And her interviews are full of lies.

Before we heard from NK, I admit, I found SW supremely annoying. But along comes NK and there is something far more sinister. Her interviews gave me the creeps. She showed no sorrow for the victims, other than at the end of the interview - her whiny, fake wail " but they were so LITT-LE!!

Maybe she let one of the investigators fuck her in the ass or she sucked one off. She's definitely the type. Makes NO sense why she wasn't questioned further!

Not too mention deleting all her texts and her searches 'can cops trace phone records'. I would LOVE to hear the two hour conversation she had with CW the night of the murders! As well as her subsequent calls to him after the murders.

* to mention

I think its pretty funny that the League of Frauen has gone so militant as to be able to drive the object of their vitriol underground. On Baby Bella's birthday no less.

All those little angel statues are undoubtedly working over-time!!!!

I personally think she was the brains behind the operation. It clearly was beyond the critical thinking skills of our Chris.

Chris didn't know what to do with Shanann's ring or how much it was worth, Nichol jumped in and told him to pawn it, how did she know Shanann wouldn't be coming back for it? She knew Shanann was already dead at that point.

Anyone know if Chris is allowed to have visitors?

R114

Visit away, Mr. McManus, visit away.

Nail on the head r113.

I wonder what Nikki and Chrissy's original plan was? Funny that they imagined life would go on as Chrissy portrayed the mourning widower of the "lost girls".

Anything for anal sex, anything, man.

I wonder if he took out any insurance policies on the wife and girls.

I am quite certain the DA knew Kessinger was involved. His main goal, however, was to get Watts behind bars for life. And the other goal was to AVOID a trial at all costs. If the DA had gone through with a trial, he would have had to put Kessinger on the stand. She is, AS I BELIEVE EVERYONE KNOWS, an accomplice to murder. Putting her dumb ass on trial would surely implicate her and detract from the goal of making Watts solely responsible. It would have muddied the waters, slowed down the trial, and Watts may have gotten a lesser charge or even a Not Guilty verdict.

I DO NOT BELIEVE that Watts saved her ass. I think the DA saved her ass merely to save his own CASE. Hence, the plea deal.

Kessinger may have been getting death threats on Shan'ann's family side. I wouldn't put it past Frankie Jr., with his history of alcoholism and beating up 2 year olds. I haven't heard of one person following this case that DOESN'T think she is involved. I am sure she has been harassed beyond belief.

Now Kessinger is in witness protection which is any potential witnesses right. Because a potential witness is exactly what she was, albeit a witness who would have gone DOWN.

Check out Guto aka Jim Gutoski in r88 's pic. He is in drag at some bar looking like a gay bear.

Hot or not?

You guys really think NK helped him? I don't think so, she doesn't seem that fucking dumb, complicity is a far cry from just fucking a married dude. She doesn't seem that into him.

The older one gets without marrying, the lower the chance of ever marrying. A person who has been single and lived alone for decades cannot easily adjust to marriage. Many late in life first marriages fail for that very reason. A person who has been divorced has a better chance to remarry, than a life long single over 40 of ever marrying at all.

R120

You have to watch the interviews and read the discovery dump.

NK lied in her first interview with LE in which she feigns disinterest in Watts. Then her friend Charlotte released her personal texts with NK in which NK dishes about Watts (including the fact that he is the first man to eat her pussy and he seems to good to be true).

2nd NK interview - she admits that she loved him, etc.

She was googling 'wedding dresses' a week before the murders, FFS.

Have you seen her recovered texts to Watts?

Do you know she was stalking Watts in September 2017? ( This was NOT a typo in the discovery as falsely reported).

She was REALLY INTO HIM. And she is pretty fucking stupid.

R28. It is thought that Chris used the girls' yellow emoji pillow to smother them to death. In one of the videos or stills of the crime scene investigators carting stuff out of the Watts house, you can see the yellow pillow inside the plastic bag that investigator was carrying.

R121 Sounds valid to me, but what the hell does this shit have to do with Watts?

Here is a picture of Bella and CeCe's emoji pillows. They look more like small bean bags and are bigger than the pillows shown above.

He smothered them with fucking emoji pillows?

This case, these people, the lifestyle, the possessions - all of it - is so fucking bizarre.

I have NEVER encountered the likes of those involved. Is it just me?

Yikes

No r126 Not just you. It is completely bizarre. I want to see more of these texts. Can you help r122? How old was NK that Watts would be the first guy to go down on her? Or was she a lez prior to Chris making the scene? I'm confused.

Anyone have a link to the SECOND document dump?

I believe NK was 30. Here are some partial texts to Amanda.

R126. It's not just you. It's almost all of us. Instead of paying the $45/month HOA fee, SW was getting a box of mystery of cosmetics and toiletries from a subscription service for $50/month. How many clothes, shoes, living rooms with awful sofas and furniture do you need?

I doubt that CW really knew the extent to which they were in the hole again. They were 3 months behind in their mortgage, so SW cashed out part of CW’s 401K (with a penalty , no doubt). They were due in court on the same week that the girls started school. The HOA fee had ballooned and if they didn’t pay it or work out payment, the could have had their home foreclosed.

I don’t think that SW was breaking even with Thrive. She probably was making under $20,000 and the was the gross not net. She had expenses from all of those sales trips.

Why not have the girls go to public school?

They had 20 credit cards (some rumored to be in the girls’ names).

The financial stress alone was madness and it cost 4 souls their lives.

More from the crimerocket site. Just keep searching his site for discovery.

Speaking of document dumps, I keep hearing that Chris took a dump near where he buried Shannann. Is this true, or is it DL true? Is there a source?

True r133 It is in the police interview with Troy McCoy, co-worker of Watts and on death site morning after murders. Google interview or check YouTube.

Thanks r134 Off to google! Now, if someone can clear up for me how a 30 year old woman, not a virgin, waited so long to have oral sex performed on her. Did her pussy stink?

It must have stank real bad r135. She mentions in one of her texts to Charlotte that her ex wouldn't go near it. Charlotte reassures her that it isn't her ( or her pussy) it is THEM.

After all, CHRIS was really into it. And he loved the way her "booty" smelled and tasted.

Jesus, the shit they released is insane.

Here he is ~ Troy McCoy discussing the 💩.

[quote] Jesus, the shit they released is insane.

Is this a pun? Chris released some shit too. ON THE MURDER SITE after sending the sunflower pics to Nichol. The very sunflowers that were in range of the babies in the oil can and Shannan fermenting in the dirt.

Was this a sign to Nichol - mission accomplished?

JFC. It's like the world's longest lasting advent calendar of weirdness.

Laughing insanely at this point at your post r139.

Sums it up.

I haven't watched the video yet, but I read in an interview transcript that when Chrissy pulled the truck over to take his dump Troy didn't think it was "unusual", until he later realized it might be a move to hide some evidence. So these dudes just drove around the worksite all day, crapping hither and yon?

R30, I used to wonder how suffocation was possible... then one night, I hooked up with a hot, big (not fat, but 6'6" ~300lb linebacker-like powerlifter) bear. At one point, we rolled over & he was laying on me... and I suddenly realized I couldn't breathe, and that if he'd been determined to stay on top, I wouldn't have been able to push him off even though I can bench press ~250lbs. Partly because I was getting lightheaded, and partially because it's a LOT harder to push off ~300 squishy pounds than ~250lb attached to a steel bar.

The point is, a weight difference of ~100lb is a LOT more than you'd think, especially when it's "squishy" weight.

Inside Edition had a story today saying a lot of women are writing love letters to Chris, made me think of this place

R143. This is predominantly a GAY MALE/LESBIAN site. Unless you are counting the Frau infestation as of late.

[quote] crapping hither and yon?

HAHAHA!

R118, yeah, I think you’re right. It wouldn’t be perfect justice if she got away with conspiracy or accessory, but justice is rarely served up perfectly. And I don’t think she’s a danger to the community.

I just hate seeing her get away with it. But at least HE’s in prison for the rest of his miserable life.

R116, this was on Shanann’s Pinterest board! I imagine he was pestering her a LOT for it.

He could have saved up some dollars and gotten a prostitute for that. Sheesh.

Great sleuthing r147. The truth is being unveiled.....da....da....!

But Nikki (Nichol) was so willing and able....

NK = THE CLOSEST THING TO A [bold] POWER BOTTOM [/bold] CHRIS COULD GET!

R147, her Pinterest board is exactly what you’d expect. People say “Oh you don’t know what she was really like”

Yes. We do.

Dr Phil is examining this case on his show today. In the intro, Phil just described CW as 'handsome".

I dig some digging on the THRIVE ladies, and even with her baby bump, Shanann was in way better shape than all her "soul sisters".

Who the hell looks at these ladies and thinks...yeah, I'll take your advice about health and fitness.

Nancy Grace is a dis-grace, why they bother with her baffles me

Thrive is a scam.

If it were that great, they’d take it public and sell it at Whole Foods and shit.

Obviously R154

But it boggles the mind. Who the hell looks at this photo and says "Yep, this is the crew I trust about health and fitness." The pregnant lady is the smallest in the group!

R147, and there's your motive.

R155 that is just sad.

BUMP!

I second that bump R158 Come on Frauen, you are good this sleuthing shit, I'll give you that. This is one of the few threads you are encouraged to enter, so have the fuck at it. I take one look at those document dumps (dumps were and remain a big part of Chrissy's life, apparently) and my eyes glaze over. Get to sifting through this mess and fork out the nuggets ladies. There may be a gift card to Applebee's in it for you.

Who has a link to the second doc dump?

Okay, I’ll bite. I’m a woman and not a frau, and no I don’t want to fuck Chris because his arms are short and he dressed like white trash and he had a girly voice and he killed his family.

In the discovery documents, there’s a timeline that details the various phone calls among the main characters. There’s an entry in July at 10:18 pm that Chris speaks to an unidentified number with no name attached and the call lasts for seven minutes. What the fuck is that? The police have phone records and they don’t know what the phone number was?

I’m assuming it was a burner phone.

Who did he talk to for seven minutes on this unidentified phone number?

I'm guessing NK had more than one burner phone and that call was to her. r161

Seriously, guys. What is the Frauen version of shaking the kibble box to get them running over here?

BUMP! Come over from the “Chris Watts in New Jersey thread”!

*Because Chris really is in WISCONSIN now!

How will Chris feel on his first Christmas without his beloved family?🎄

And his first Christmas without Shan’ann in 7 years?

Chris and the family (all alive) during a recent Christmas...

Likely, relieved, r166

Both of them (especially Chris) look pretty good in this early picture of the relationship...

(Allegedly from 2010...)

Disturbing:

Nick van der Leek has published his fourth book on the watts case, and it focuses on exactly how Watts killed them and disposed of the bodies. It is a gripping read.

One thing, however, that he points out, IS something of a red flag: The Watts home had a door bell camera. There was video available of Shanann watts coming into the house. And yet, the DA did not provide it in the document dumps.

So the question is why. Was she drunk? Would that have made the black and white analysis of the crime somewhat messy? Shanann being 5 months pregnant and drunk? Did she drink routinely?

Given that the DA even made text messages between peripheral players part of the public record, why would they hold back the last video of SW alive?

Wouldn’t Chris Watts had made a mention of Shanann being drunk if she really was? I mean, he had no problem claiming she strangled the kids, so why withold that detail when it could strengthen his claim: Drunk enraged people can do things they would never do when sober + it ruins her saintly image if she’s drinking when pregnant. Makes no sense he would leave that out.

R143, Just because someone is a murderer doesn't make them physically unattractive. I have to agree with one of those women they mentioned on Inside Edition that wrote, # So Cute among others.

BUMP!

I remember the photo at R170. Is he fantasizing about strangling her? He is clearly touching her, and she feels it and seems to respond with a little smile. Is he fantasizing about a sex game, and she is thinking about it, too? Is he measuring her neck, and making plans? R170 is right: disturbing.

What if Chris watts didn't notice she was drunk? What if she drank often and she seemed her usual self? Or he was just too focused on killing her to notice she was smashed?

Well I just finished reading that Nic van der leek book, and he argues that CW killed the girls between 7 and 9 PM the night Shanann got home. Poisoned them somehow and then smothered them. Neither of the girls fought back, he reckons. He thinks Bella's mouth was torn as CW smashed her down into the tank through the too small opening. He had to use the rake head nd his foot to squeeze her in; he mouth got stuck on the edge of the opening, nd that was how the frenulum got torn.

Once in, he buried Shanann. Spent most of the time after Shanann died cleaning the house to kill cadaver dog odors.

The question at this point is, what exactly was NKs involvement? It seems SO MUCH MORE than so far led to believe.

By the way, I looked at the photos on Shanann's facebook page. Scooby Nickole has really gone downhill since starting thrive. She looked a hell of a lot better before she started taking that shit.

Does anyone know what those frauen are doing with their hands at r152? I see it alot in groups of women. Gang signaling? WTF?

The house has gone into foreclosure, I wonder if someone will buy it. Normally I wouldn't care about buying a murder house but something about this house creeps me out. I'm not superstitious but that house has some dark energy attached to it.

What do you think of his theories, R177?

I thought everyone agreed that he killed the girls after Shan’ann? I wonder what he bases his theories on....

Also: wouldn’t the autopsies of the girls have shown if they were drugged or if the cuts on Bella’s tongue were done post-mortem?

Additionally: how was Chris Watts knowing how to clean up the staircase and run all the fans to “confuse the cadaver dogs” and “erase cadaver scents”?

No such search terms were found on his phone or google searches and yet he knew to even try to do this stuff? How did he know?

Were Chris and the mistress Nickole using burner phones or doing searches on public library computers? Or something else?

I’m just wondering what kind of “research and training” CW got himself for these murders and how he got it.

I expected weird things to come up in his google search results when all the documents were released, but so far you guys have not noted any death or murder searches in Chris or the mistress’s computers or Google searches, etc.

So what was he basing his crime scene planing and murder and body dumping on?

I agree, R179, it’s creepy..

Not even Ciello Drive creeps me out as much as that house.

[quote] how was Chris Watts knowing how to clean up the staircase and run all the fans to “confuse the cadaver dogs” and “erase cadaver scents”?

Given how fucking stupid was he was in every other way, this sounds like complete bullshit.

Where is a link to these books I keep hearing referenced?

I agree, R183, but according to what was in the discovery documents/document dumps the investigators said that apparently Chris had the fans running in every single room in the house, the house smelled like cleaners, and some of the stairs were recently cleaned.

The dog handler (of the cadaver dogs) said that the fan thing was allegedly a common tactic used to try to throw the dogs off the scent of the bodies.

Any books written this quickly are rushed out BS designed for a quick buck. Don't waste your money.

And turning on fans and running a little bleach is something you could pick up from any Law and Order episode. I doubt he did anything INTENSE cleaning wise. The commission of this crime was offensively stupid.

Chris was cleaning mattresses and carpets that takes time to dry up, so he put the started up the ceiling fans to speed up the process. Doubtful he knew it would confuse a cadaver dog, or even knew enough to google search for that.

The bodies would not smell in that short time frame

I’d guess that the lovebirds had burner phones, except they did plenty of texting on their regular phones.

But there WAS that call in July with no *number* or name identified; Chris had a seven minute call with that person.

I used to dismiss it as crazy, but the more I think about it, the more I think Nichol killed the girls and he killed Shanann. There are big and little clues.

R188, SUPPOSEDLY, “cadaver dogs” can smell whatever molecules are emitted by a dead person. Supposedly a body that’s only been dead a few minutes gives off a certain odor.

If you couldn’t tell, I’m skeptical of the accuracy of this. How do they train these dogs to detect newly-dead humans, exactly? Do they rush dogs to the scene of fatal car accidents? Hospice facilities?

i can't imagine anyone wanting to buy that house now. who wants to pay a 360,000 dollar mortgage on a death house

Buy the property and demolish the house

The McCann case had a lot of controversy about cadaver dogs, scents and cleaning products. Most of what I know comes from reading about that case in the press.

R193, I love true crime, and it makes me CRAZY when people base their theories on whether a dog barked or not. I adore dogs and many of them are smart, but I just don’t think they’re terribly accurate. They’re not able to speak and say “well, it smells a little death-y over there, but there’s also a dumpster two feet to the left.” It’s not real science, IMO. Maybe okay to use as a general source of detection, but it’s not PROOF.

I laughed at "a little death-y" I'm going to have to steal that. R194 And I agree.

Yes I agree R194. I was just musing that if I'd read stuff maybe CW had at some point too.

R189 please provide your "big and little clues" re: your theory ASAP.

Nick van der Leek is the author of that Crimerocket.com blog. So his books are elaborations on his research for the blog. I agree that a lot of his stuff is fluff, but he really does get detailed. They are available on Amazon, and they are free on kindle if you are in the book subscription thing.

The dog handlers noted that all the fans were on, and the youtube videos show them when Scooby Nickole and Chris ran into the house as soon as he got there and let them in.

He bases the premise that the girls were killed between 7 and 9 PM on the texts he was sending that night. He texted with Shanann's parents and the girls face-timed them, at 7 PM. Shanann wanted him to send her pictures of them sleeping at 10 PM, and he sent pictures of grilled chicken breasts instead. She was insistent and he just kept sending other pictures instead, and she thought he was trying to piss her off. This is all in the phone texts in the third document dump, I believe. So the fact that he did NOT allow any other visuals after 9 PM seems to define the upper window.

NvdL also suggests that CW used the basement as a staging area because the bodies probably defecated as they died. This is common and accounts for the discoloration on the carpet on the stairs where Chris is likely to have strangled Shanann. NvdL suggests he forced her face into the carpet when he was strangling her. Which makes sense as it is difficult to strangle someone with their bare hands. He put the girls bodies into garbage bags, wrapped Shanann in the fitted sheet. He put her body on the floor behind the driver's side and oddly, the cadaver dogs, even though they signaled the truck, were never used to sniff the inside of the truck ----- cuz of course they already knew he transported the bodies in there.

Disposing the girls' bodies was difficult, not because of the emotion, but because the oil in those tanks is hot, and emits really horrible gases. Ceecee had 9 inch wide hips, so he to twist he to get her in there ---- and this accounts for the scrapes on her hips. With Bella, it was MORE difficult because contorting her body in required her head going in at the weird angle that caused the mouth abrasions. Bella's shoulders were wider than 9 inches. Dr. Phil's suggestion that he broke bones is completely off the mark because nothing remotely like that was mentioned in the autopsy reports.

Once he got rid of the bodies, he immediately canceled the $24,000 pre-school and called a realtor. He swung around the house she suggested he view for evaluation purposes, on the way home to intercept Scooby Nickole. It really was all about the money.

What about all the guys he was supposedly having sex with?

NvdL comments a lot on his sexuality but thinks there is a lot of information the DA is holding back, including that doorbell video of Shanann arriving home that night. He thinks Bolte is probably lying, but also thinks there were other men the DA talked to, that they are not revealing because they wanted to keep the picture very Black and White, and not all that nuanced.

I would bet that the death house sits empty for several months to let the gawkers get it out of their systems, then will be substantially remodeled, not torn down. It depends on how many bidders there are once it has been foreclosed on. I'm assuming whoever eventually buys it will flip it pretty quickly once the modifications have been made.

R198, thank you so much for your post and summaries! Damn it was a brutal, brutal crime...

I *still* don’t get how someone with no drug or alcohol history or arrest record or family or workplace violence issues became such a cold hearted killer...

I mean, you’d think that the process of the actual murders (3 separate ones) and the body removal alone would make someone who never killed before or dealt with dead children’s bodies excessively vomit at the least.

It’s SO crazy that he went from doing these kid’s hair and making sure they had snacks everyday, etc. to murdering them and shoving their contorted bodies with his boots into oil tankers.

All without vomiting, crying, stopping himself, etc... It’s insane. I just don’t get it.

Your post was great though!

^ I think that is also what is making many a frau give their husband the side eye now. How could a seemingly normal guy kill his wife and kids and dispose of their bodies like that? What is it that drove him over the edge? And could my Todd do the same to me?

R198 :

“He bases the premise that the girls were killed between 7 and 9 PM on the texts he was sending that night. He texted with Shanann's parents and the girls face-timed them, at 7 PM. Shanann wanted him to send her pictures of them sleeping at 10 PM, and he sent pictures of grilled chicken breasts instead. She was insistent and he just kept sending other pictures instead, and she thought he was trying to piss her off. This is all in the phone texts in the third document dump, I believe. So the fact that he did NOT allow any other visuals after 9 PM seems to define the upper window.”

I was doubtful of the “he killed the kids first” argument (especially with Shan’ann being so “OCD” and checking in on the kids 24/7) but you make a *seriously* compelling argument^^

Wow, it seems extremely likely now.

The planning and execution of the crime was nuts...

How long do we think think Watts believed he would have to “clean up/arrange the crime scene” before work if Shan’ann had gotten in on time?

I’m kind of shocked he killed the kids first; that was extra cold blooded and pre-meditated then...

And WTF make this dumb ass think he would get away with it??

The problem with placing the deaths that early is the autopsies showed no food in the girls stomachs, when the FIL heard them in the background around 5 PM and they ate pizza and candy. It would take a good 5-6 hours to clear the stomach, so they couldn't have been murdered before 10-11 PM. That's why I think they were murdered after, Shanann was going to be the most difficult to kill and he wouldn't risk her surviving while the kids were dead. I think he really loved CeCe, but she had to go, probably the easiest to kill and he could have smothered both girls in 20 minutes time.

Do we really think that mistress Nickole was like “kill your kids!” and was careful enough to only say it to him in person and never text him anything suspicious or incriminating on that then or later?

Doesn’t it make more sense as Chris’ idea? The planning was awful and didn’t take into account ANY kind of police investigation or questions from society...

I feel like if that bitch of a mistress was involved, it would have been “better planned” and “more thought out”...

[quote]I feel like if that bitch of a mistress was involved, it would have been “better planned” and “more thought out”...

^^agreed.

R199 LOUDER FOR THE BITCHES IN THE BACK

His "gay lover" was some sad little queen with a vivid imagination and bad lip injections.

Yeah, if he was hooking up with guys so much, I doubt he would have been so interested in making plans with the girlfriend.

Some psychic medium claims to be speaking with Shan'ann today.

NvdL makes the argument that he drugged them somehow so he could more easily smother them. They had gastro-esophageal reflux (they were on omeprizol) so ate 5-6 smaller meals a day rather than larger meals and they were apparently trained to this. But if he also drugged them they might not have eaten as much as even that. 2-3 hours to empty small stomach contents seems reasonable. Shanann had dinner with her friends at 8:30, and was killed at ~2 AM (i.e., 4-5 hours later), and also had empty stomach contents. So I don't think that can be a clock here.

NvdL thinks the earlier time allowed him the time he needed to clean the house. He was out of that house in 3 hours, after killing 3 people, cleaning shit out of carpets, cleaning the rest of the crime scene, and bagging bodies. He said the entrance to the basement was right at the garage door, and was right around the corner from that staircase we have seen repeatedly, so the planning was to minimize contamination in the house for dogs. All in one central location. The basement. He speculates that CW may even have killed the girls down there to minimize contamination of their bedrooms with cadaver smell. The basement windows were draped and a single light down there would not have been visible to anyone passing the house.

I personally find the text pattern pretty compelling.

Also: wasn’t Shann’ann thought to be killed in the bed while in a deep sleep? Could it really have been on the staircase as soon as she got there?

If the staircase wouldn’t there be evidence of resistence or a struggle from her??

Did the medium immediately shoot herself in the head to make it stop, R211?

Well the argument for it having been at the foot of the stairs is that when the police detective shows up and they are doing the very first interrogation and searching the house, and Chris is saying, Should I drive around the neighborhood and see if I can find anything?" and the detective says "No, not really helpful" ---- Chris cannot take his eyes away from that carpet stain on the floor. It is like the telltale heart. It's as though he sees it as glaringly huge and is trying to not draw attention to it, but cannot help himself. And there IS a stain there and the carpet is wet. He claimed at one point that it got soaked by the girls after the pool party, but.....

There is nothing to suggest she ever got upstairs. Her phone was up there and I think her purse too, but it is likely Chris was assembling the shit he had to get rid of. Her suitcase was downstairs, her shoes were downstairs. I would imagine if she ever got upstairs and saw either no girls in their beds or dead girls, there would have been blood-curdling screams. He had the advantage of surprise in forcing her into the stairs.

I don't know if the thrive girls posted any photos of that last dinner together, but it would be interesting to see what she was wearing. I wonder if he had to strip her clothes and re-dress her.

One thing I didn't understand: the gas can. NvdL says he doused the girls' bodie with gaoline before sticking them in the tank. Why would he do that? What wa that for?

And I personally think NK was totally in on it and the planning etc.. There is NO WAY Chris would have come up with the idea of checking for displacement volume of the bodies as a way of anticipating whether tank volume alarms would go off.

I have to wonder why they let NK off scot-free, Makes zero sense to me.

Unless, in line with that earlier question of whether or not he was being noble..... did he make it a condition of his plea that they not go after Nichol?

Cuz really her interviews were worse than his! "They're so LITT-LE!" Come on.

You can’t convince me that she was not involved with the planning of the murders. I also think it’s possible she killed Celeste. One of the few times CW teared up in court was when Bella was mentioned, so I do believe he killed her.

R218,the problem with that is that there would be videos somewhere of her being at the house, and there was nothing. No doorbell video, no neighbor's video.

She could have crawled on the ground from the car to the garage like the snake that she is R219.

She wasn't missing very long, that's got to be the nosiest neighborhood in the U.S.

Gladys would be proud.

Lol, R220.

But, Chris seemed fucking shocked by his neighbor’s video of him backing the truck into the garage, so if he didn’t think about it, then likely mistress Nichole wouldn’t have taken that into account earlier and would have been spotted on the neighbor’s video some way as well...

You guys really think he could plan this SO incompetently that he gets caught within 48 hours, but NK gets off clean? You can't be that stupid AND that smart.

And it wasn't really that the neighbors are so nosy, it's that Shanananananananan was constantly talking to SOMEBODY or posting to social media. The fact that Chris didn't have a plan for that, even a simple "hey guys, phone is broken, send me a facebook DM and I'll get back to you when I can. Keep Thriving!!!!" post would have bought him SOME time.

I actually like the neighbors, especially the female friend. She clearly is very concerned, knew the wife wasn't feeling well and the normal morning activities hadn't happened. All of their suspicions proved correct.

I wasn't that much into the story when it broke. I came across this video (which might have been posted already) yesterday and got hooked. Binge watching since yesterday while home with a cold.

R225 but still dumb enough to fall for a pyramid scheme

What did Chris in was he didn't seem to know his wife well. Every single person who met her commented that Shanann was glued to her phone and SM, they all knew the only way to get her phone away from her was to pry it from her cold, dead hands. That's how they knew she was already dead, her running off and leaving her phone behind was 100% out of character and Chris should have known that.

"My super social wife disappeared RIGHT after she got home. Um...shrug?"

Prior to the murders, CW claimed that someone tried to break into his garage or car and asked that same neighbor to check his tapes to see if anyone was caught on camera. The tapes didn't show anything out of the ordinary happening.

I think CW panicked when watching this neighbor's video after the murders because he misjudged the actual range of the neighbor's camera. He obviously had not or could not back the car up any further into the garage.

The neighbors were all nosy as hell, they knew Chris never backed his truck in, never dressed sloppy like he did that morning, knew about all the fights, it helped the case but I would hate having those nosy nellies all up in my business.

These 15 year old girls got away with murder 6 months longer than Chris did, and might have indefinitely if one hadn't cracked.

There's a video on youtube where they are retrieving Dieter from the house to send him to live with Frankie. In that video, towards the end, the nosy neighbor with the video camera comes up to the cops wondering what he should do with his "evidence". He was clearly excited by his status; he says to the cop "I'm the guy that gave you all the important info to nail him. I've never been involved in something like this before...."

Those neighbors were leading lives of quiet desperation. If this had happened in a high crime neighborhood where wives go missing a lot, he would have gotten away with it.

R224, I know, but NK was smart enough to delete her shit and use the door that didn’t have a camera on it, and SHE LAWYERED UP and had her stupid boyfriend vagmatized enough to fall on his sword for her.

I’m STILL trying to find the record of her calls to police. You know, the ones where she comes forward of her own volition to report everything she knows. Or records of when the cops called HER. There’s nothing. There are the recordings of the interviews, but no records of her calling the police or a tip line or anything.

So far I think r198 / the NvdL poster is the front runner for that Applebee's gift card. Nice job distilling all of this.

[quote]There is NO WAY Chris would have come up with the idea of checking for displacement volume of the bodies as a way of anticipating whether tank volume alarms would go off.

I believe knowing tank volumes and displacements was his job with his company. In one of the interviews the detectives asked him was he did and he said he went to tank sites, among other things.

do you think the property values will go down in that specific neighborhood now?

There’s some speculation that Chris used the doll in the photo he sent to Shanann, to test various displacement volumes in his bathtub.

There's a couple major red flags in the NK was Involved theory for me.

1) In every case I can think of, when the jig is up , a couple that kills together turns on each other to save themselves. Self-preservation always beats Murderous True Love.

2) Even if Chris wanted to cover for NK, I don't think he's smart enough to cover her tracks that well. He would've given something away, even accidentally.

Me too r238, not just that, but jesus, what are the odds two fucking psychos would find each other? The guy ate her pussy like a champ, big deal, you don't help him kill his family. She may have been flattered he did it for her or something but I don't think she was involved, she seemed way too into self preservation.

Nick van der Leek (Onion) - whatever his name is - is an idiot out to make a quick buck by writing drivel and unsubstantiated crap about high profile murder cases. He is quite late to the party as he is working on a Casey Anthony follow up as well.

This thread is getting derailed by his bullshit theories. We can all read his moronic blog. Please USE YOUR OWN CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS here on the DL.

I think the cops let her go because they didn’t want to listen to that voice any longer.

Chris is by all accounts mechanically minded and perhaps on the spectrum. Thinking about the body displacement in the tanks is one of the things I most easily believe about him. Too bad he couldn't think much beyond that.

R118 gives the most logical reason why Kessinger was not implicated. The DA said as much and I am paraphrasing - we got Watts which is who we wanted, why go on a "witch" hunt?

Job is done. Case is closed. They let her walk. Chris did not save her. He just wanted to ass fuck with some broad. Do you Frauen really believe his confessions of love for NK? Sraight guys will say anything to get laid or get some help murdering their families.

Wake up.

It is stupid to think that the DA would willingly let an accomplice to a nationally-publicized triple murder go free. They had Chris dead to rights. Hell, even if they completely killed them together, the manner in which Chris disposed of the bodies of his toddlers would enrage any jury.

If the DA did let NK go, they would have to worry for the rest of their lives about that becoming public.

R237, it's been awhile since I saw that pic. I didn't realize how big the doll is. I had thought it was barbie sized, but now I can see it takes up the width of an entire chair.

What a weird photo he sent to his wife. Maybe he meant to send it to someone else, but he accidentally sent it to Shanann instead. Did he realize he sent it to the wrong person? If so, did he want to kick himself? Did he later see the pic on her social media? If so, he probably nearly fainted and wanted to call the whole thing off, but it was probably too late for that, since he'd already killed the kids.

Regarding the doll, it's possible he used it in the bathtub to try to estimate water displacement in the tanks. But he's already shown he didn't plan ahead...would have have bothered with that test? Maybe he used the doll as a model. He showed the covered doll to his kids, and he told them to hide in their beds under their sheets in the same position. Then he could kill them without having to see their faces. Maybe after moving the kids' bodies to the basement, he was going to place the doll in one of the kids' beds as a decoy.

R244 knows nothing about our so-called justice system. Our courts let perps and accomplices walk every day. Trials cost money, muddy the waters, and allow reasonable doubt.

I suggest r244 stop watching fictional crime dramas and learn how our suck ass "justice" system really works.

[quote] If the DA did let NK go, they would have to worry for the rest of their lives about that becoming public.

Uh, no they don't. Nichol Kessinger doesn't exist anymore.

Witness protection comes in real handy sometimes.

Exactly what help did CW need from NK to murder two toddlers and his wife? We’ve seen the muscles. I’m not buying that theory.

Is there a pucture of this carpet stain?

The willpower, r248. He always needed a dominant wom Some guys an to force him into what she wanted. Some straight guys are like that.

R248 My suspicion is that she knew about the murders before and after. I don't believe she ACTUALLY and PHYSICALLY helped kill them.

Nevertheless, that still makes her an accomplice. She gave the DA motive in exchange for immunity.

Why the fuck do some of you think she is in the WPP?

The only places saying NK is entering witness protection are tabloids. Realistically, she probably just had a sealed name change. Witness protection = cutting every tie she has in the world. A name change and a move and she vanishes in a crowd. She's a generic white brunette.

And I love the fan theory that NK was there, a full participant, but she gets to walk scott free and everyone with proof of her involvement is just keeping it to themselves.

CW's mom was willing to believe Shanananananana killed her own kids. I doubt she'd life a finger to protect her son's backdoor ho. She'd be running to every outlet screaming "That whore made my precious baby kill my grandchildren"

^ He always needed a dominant woman to force him into what she wanted. Some guys straight guys are like that.

Why would NK be needed for motive? His phone was full of evidence of their affair.

And even without her: they disappear from the house with only him around and found at his place of work. This case was a slam dunk.

It HAS been confirmed that Kessinger entered the WPP by FBI sources.

[quote] She'd be running to every outlet screaming "That whore made my precious baby kill my grandchildren"

Exactly.

R255 please cite a source. All I see are tabloids like Radar and the Daily Mail

Kessinger name was given to LE by Anadarko co-workers who blabbed about the affair. Yes, they found evidence on Watt's phone, but they found much more once Kessinger was called in and they were able to retrieve her deleted data.

The DA said, at sentencing, that a new life with Nichol was MOTIVE. CASE CLOSED.

Even without the affair, CW is the only one with means and opportunity. Thats 2/3.

And wanting to escape their crippling finances would be plenty of motive. Shanann was as bad at budgeting as her husband was at murder.

This Kandi Hall (nice name) bitch didn't even get busted in conjunction with her hubby killing her bf.

Rest in peace, hot BF at R59

Have a gander at what I have to say here. I am a long time DL lez and I shoot straight from the hip right here.

For all you chubby chasers, there’s going to be a whole lot more of Chris to love pretty soon.

His recent canteen purchases include boxes of cookies, donuts and a brownie.

R261 come back when you master 6th grade grammar

"Chris Watts and Nicole Kessinger was an evil duo who where both very evil. They where both narcissists and selfish. Nicole is not a good lier and will be investigated,and brought to justice"

I love Woodswomen! Thanks for sharing!

No need to be snippy there r263. I am just an old gal from up in Michigan there trying my best to understand you heterosexual folk that have gotten all up in this here homosexual forum. My grammar may not be up to par for some of you City folk, but I am a straight shooter.

Hey R264 sending you love and some Saginaw fudge.

Another vote for Woodswoman! 😍

Woodswoman, do you have fibro? Do you have a cane? Do you FF & block people here?

Woodswoman, what tribe? Why not open a thread here?

Van der Leek's blog has mistakes in it. He wrote the first Watts book right after the porch video, before the bodies were found. He's no Ann Rule.

Aww, thanks, Woodswoman! Love back at ya. One thing that really stuck out on this crime is all the personal information that was dumped! If I was a neighbor I was be pissed that my full names,phone numbers, addresses etc., was passed on the the public! I seriously would think long hard about letting a cop in my house to help ANY crime. WTF!!

Beck's Paranormal has a lot of EVP videos with Shanann and sometimes the girls. The voice really does sound like Shanann.

The latest one had a chilling part at near the end at 9:08, where you hear a child's voice crying and saying, "Daddy!" It could just be interference by a baby monitor, but then again, it could be Bella.

NK said that Chris called her Sunday night and he was sitting on a stripped bed. He had a smirk and his eyes looked strange. I think she said it was around 8pm. It is likely he had finished killing the girls at that point.

This got a lot less interesting when we learned there really wasn't any gay sex involved.

R206, I don’t believe he loved any of these people, kids included.

I think that there are people out there who can’t feel deeply and profoundly. I think people like this enjoy sex, affection from others, and things that make them feel good, but that doesn’t mean they feel deeply.

Think about someone you love. Really love. Now think about hurting them, or killing them. You can’t, can you? Normal people just cannot do it.

Chris is missing something that makes others feel things that he cannot feel. Everything he did, even before he killed his family, he did because he was attempting to connect to someone or something. Whatever it was that he felt, it was fleeting, and not deeply rooted.

We are tripping out because we cannot relate to him. But we need to realize that this man is the complete embodiment of what clinicians refer to as sociopaths. What makes this case so unique, is trust we have tons of footage. It almost like watching a reality show, about a sociopath!

We tend to throw the word ‘sociopath’ around, quite a bit, but experts say true sociopaths are rare.

Chris is a true sociopath. There’s just no way in hell that most people can do what he did, even men who are stuck in unhappy marriages.

Chris doesn’t care that he’s in jail. He can’t feel. He will adapt quickly and will either take his own life (not due to guilt), get murdered, or die an old man (or younger man).

This crime cannot be understood from an emotional level. Chris is not like most of us, and we are not like him.

R215 Nikole said that the top that Shanann was buried in was the same top she had worn on the plane coming back from AZ.

SW's remains showed that her mascara had run down her face . Her friends said she had a nightime ritual of scrubbing off all of her makeup before she went to bed.

SW (or CW pretending to be SW) tred to make an online purchase for hair dye after she returned home from AZ. The credit card was declined.

R237 That doll is hollow. It wouldn't accurately duplicate the weight of the girls. It's a giant Barbie Doll that is seen in the video where CeCe is dangerously hanging onto the bathroom vanity and trying to pull herself over to the water faucet.

R273, I think there’s still a good chance of plenty of gay sex to come!

I think this case got less interesting because the only interesting person in this whole thing is dead.

Chris is a boring, uncharasmatic boob. His wife had her faults, but she wasn’t boring as fuck.

A man in his mid thirties was telling his mistress how much he loved her “booty”. Give me a fucking break. I cannot believe she found anything compelling about this guy. I’ve made similar mistakes. We get lonely, and choose shitty partners. I’m lucky I never got murdered for wanting companionship, however.

Exactly how i pictured a DL dyke to be 😔

Daily Mail reporting that the love letters from strangers have started pouring in. I’d link but they don’t work. Shame he’s gonna be tubby again.

To be fair, a guy that can eat ass like a pro is a treasure not to be discarded. I still remember the best rimjobs of my life r277

Exactly R269. His priority is having new shit to publish, not being accurate. I’m surprised he hadn’t doesn’t a 30-part series on Trent Bolte. Now there’s a tragic bitch who needs to change her name and disappear

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

^^ Is someone using Lesley Ann Warren's photo?!

R211 That was pretty brutal to get through. The woman seems nice but needs better apps. I wonder who the spirit is who sounds like Bill Clinton.

Oh JFC. Now psychic fraus are speaking to poor DEAD AF Shan’ann?

R277, true.

Gosh, can you imagine being her parents? How do people overcome something like this? And I hope her brother is seeking help. He appears very fragile. I’m not saying that in a cruel way, either.

I cannot believe women are sending him photos and love letters. I wonder if people who are attracted to convicted murderers have a fantasy of being murdered themselves?

Well, when woodsy lesbians from the UP start promoting youtube channels here, and the mediums channeling Shanann are given the benefit of the doubt (it COULD be Shanann's voice), you know the CW discussion's end is near.

Comment from the YouTube channel, where a nutty frau is using an app, to communicate w/ Shan’ann:

“I have a strong feeling that Shan’ann has helper spirits around her, helping her. I asked her to come visit me and bring with her any friends that she likes. I believe she brought Elvis. I kept getting signs of this for days... I asked her children to come visit me and I believe they were all there.....playing I don’t share my abilities to channel spirits with many people. Shan’ann was helping me with a situation where I was around a boyfriend who was getting violent with me. She helped me navigate through it.”

I’m sorry, but this is actually pretty funny, even if not intentional.

R287 Shanann the Relationship Spirit Expert coming Spring 2019 to Lifetime

Hey Guys, it's me from the other side! I have Elvis with me and I want to talk to you about, like, relationships and thrive bites.

My theory on the doll pic is Shanann had taken the girls to the Obgyn before and had spoken to them on the phone, while on her trip, promising them that she would take them on Monday morning to see sonogram scans of their little brother. They were play acting the trip to the Dr's office. That's why the doll, who represents their mom, is covered by a sheet and the legs are raised like they would be in stirrups. The reason the face is covered is just a simple mistake by the girls who are just recreating the last time they saw mommy in this position at the Dr's office.

R288, I cannot believe anyone actually made it through that YT recording from “Angel Wings”. I couldn’t stop laughing, especially when the psychic frau repeatedly asks Shan’ann if she’s feeling sad today, and why! And the frau even comments on how upsetting the pop up ads are, on her app. The nutjob can communicate with dead people, but refuses to buy an ad free version of her psychic app

I know a frau who actually pays random psychics to talk to dead people. Her husband had an emotional affair with another frau that they were having threesomes with. Eventually, he left the wife for the mistress.

Anyhow, the mistress eventually committed suicide. The whole thing was really tragic and really fucked up. The wife started paying psychics to communicate with the dead mistress. Now let me add, that while the mistress was still alive, the frau wife talked MAJOR shit about her to anyone who listened, and she also used social media to trash the mistress. This was after she willingly participated in threesomes, that were encouraged by her asshole husband. She also made fun of the dead mistress after she took her own life, and made comments such as: I’m happy the bitch is dead. She then had the gall to start paying phone psychics to communicate with the dead mistress, and called up the dead mistresses’ sister, to tell her that her dead sister said, “Hi!”

I eventually blocked her from contacting me at all, whatsoever. Really fucked up and true story. I feel embarrassed that I’m even privy to any of this shit.

Anyone know if members of the general public can visit Chris or is it just family and friends?

Anyone can visit a prisoner. The prisoner doesn’t have to see you, but you can show up, and see what happens, I suppose.

I’ve never visited a prisoner, so I’m guessing this is how it goes.

Do they even have person to person contact visits anymore? When I watch Lockup and stuff it looks like it's all via facetime technology now.

I recognized you here R261. You know, you know, you know?

Believe the word you're looking for is "envious".

R261, are you the THRIVE lez?

I would LOVE to hear from an actual THRIVER who knew Shan’ann and Chris, or met them at some MLM convention.

R285 Do not feel sorry for Frankie the brother of Shannon. He's so fragile he beat up the 2 year old daughter of his girlfriend. I feel sorry for the dog who now lives with him. If you are allowed visitors in prison you create a list of those who you want to visit you. Those on the list get vetted and approved at the prison's discretion.

More case gossip and theories!!

BUMP!

Seems the frauen who suspect NK was involved are reaaaaallly reaching in their interpretation of the evidence (she wasn't caught on the neighbor's surveillance cam because she crawled on the ground into CW's truck, for example).

So what she didn't want cops seeing her embarrassing phone texts with Chris. WOULD YOU?

Changing her identify and going into hiding is no doubt for her own safety, not because she's guilty of plotting murder, but because the Casey Anthony level frau hate for this woman is chilling. She is probably in danger from psycho frauen, for whom this case hits very close to home if they have shakey marriages and cheating husbands, unleashing their fury on her.

Are there any NON-FRAUS posting here who really believe NK helped Chris plot this or knew he was going to do it?

I’m a gay man who doesn’t think NK helped plot the murders in any real way, but I totally believe she may have said things like, “Chris, you’re so amazing. Too bad you have that wife and kids or we could run away together.”

I’m sure she didn’t say things like to intentionally plant the seeds of murder, but I think it did put the thought in his head nonetheless.

It’s obviously just conjecture on my part, and even if true, not worthy of charging her as an accomplice, but I can definitely see how she unwittingly put the idea in his head.

I think Nichol told Chris she wanted Shanann and the kids out of the way if he wanted to have a life with her, she told her friend she wanted her own kids, not his. But I think she logically thought Chris would get rid of Shanann by leaving her, telling her he was done and selling the house and her moving back to NC with the kids, NOT that he would murder them. What Nichol likely didn't know was that Shanann was never letting go of Chris and that's why he stupidly killed her, he really didn't have the balls to tell Shanann it was over, to sell the house and that he was in love with another woman. Nichol had no idea just how toxic and dysfunctional the relationship was and that it would end so horribly.

Nichol is still a shitty person for getting involved in this mess, and stupid to think Shanann would let her husband move on with a new woman and not make a big fuss. Chris was on the hook for the entire mortgage and I believe Shanann would have made things miserable for Chris had he told her the truth. Nichol was lying about telling Chris to try to work things out with Shanann, she wanted him to leave her but Chris was fucked in the head to think murdering his family was the solution to his problems.

Agree, R302

R300 is spot on. Did a twitter search for NicholKessinger and found the tweet in the link below. If it’s true fraus are fabricating and photoshopping video and pics to make it look like she was caught on camera loading bodies into Chris’ work truck, no wonder she’s in witness protection.

The detectives waxed Chris’ arms, abs, and chest.

JFC, this man is dumb AF.

R275: That her mascara ran down her face indicates she didn't take it off. Long ago, it was settled that Shanann was not ordering hair products that night ----- only that an order she placed previously did not go through and she received notification of that at about 2 AM that night.

R276, displacement is not dependent on mass.

As far as I have been able to tell, when NvdL has been incorrect, he owns it immediately and sets the record straight. The one example I can think of is his belief the balloons in the iron posts of the banister were damaged when in fact, he was confused by camera angles. Are there other examples where he ha been very wrong and did not own up to it?

R292, you have to be approved by Chris to be allowed to visit. He has to place you on his visitor's list

Agree R302! She was mind-fucking him, telling him "are you sure?" and then sending him pix of her ass. Really manipulative bitch.

The caneface at R261 outed herself as did a bunch of other freaks on here with their comments and identities laid bare in her Youtube video comments.

Glub glub glub so long , Clementine!

Apparently, she was a BIG ONE 😂

Shannaan got to get pounded every night by a hottie like Chris, lucky bitch!

Shannann without makeup. The fraus all think she was hurting.

Is that thing on the side of her nose a mole or a nose ring?

She obviously was, r310. Look at her.

Frauen, when a man no longer loves you, move on! It’s a complete waste of time. It will suck to be single again, but eventually, will be OK.

^ Were you answering my question at r310 or someone else's?

The horror!

Yeah I agree with r301 and r302, I said that earlier, that it's hard enough to have one psycho willing to slaughter his family, odds of two of them are not high. Wondering what his fucking best case scenario with this was? People assuming his wife and kids are kidnapped and sold into slavery and then 3, maybe 4 months later he starts dating again? I mean, he didn't even attempt to flee so he was going to stay there. Such a shortsighted moron. And a fat one, again, soon.

It’s interesting—if true—R313 that he hasn’t made a single phone call since being there, especially since he has already pled guilty and there will be nothing else “incriminating” he could possible say on the phone...

YOU IDIOTS WILL FALL FOR ANYTHING!

LEAVE WOODSWOMAN ALONE. NOBODY OUTED THEMSELVES, MORON.

I am a gay long time DLer and I was just having some fun.

From the FB page: The best insight I can give on prison life...CW doesn't & will not have it as bad as ya'll think in prison! He will not be in cell confinement like he was in Ward County. That was strictly for his safety bc the extent of the crime and being local to there. One of the main reasons they moved him! Men kill their wives and children more than we think. High profile or not he is gonna have just as much freedom as the rest of them in a max prison. He didn't molest a child, or rape. That is usually the only time you have it hard on the inside. He killed his OWN kids. He didn't go on a baby/child murdering spree. (That may of been an issue to some inmates) Criminals don't look at things like we suspect they would! He will be going to the gym, making phone calls, going to yard and probably enjoying any of the drugs that get smuggled in. He is gonna adjust rather quickly. He will have a tv in his cell, radio ect. They also do care packages now. The people on the outside can order you all kinds of stuff and it's similar to commissary. He will fit in somewhere with a group of individuals and they will become his homies. He is gonna live a long, care free life! The whole locked in his cell for 23 hours a day shit expired when he hit the state of WI! & there are two reasons he only ordered $25 worth of stuff....1. Some prisons have a cap per week. Like an x amount of dollars for ordering. Or 2. He is learning and catching on quickly you don't let anyone on the inside know you got it like that when you're new, they'll either jump you and take your shit, or you'll become their bitch and all your money will be going to them! Don't ask me how I know these things....just know I know! :) & I'd sooner believe he will have a gay lover in there quicker than getting married to anyone on the outside!

Will he be allowed conjugal visits? If so, I would like to volunteer!

R308 I doubt it

Shanannanananan has become the patron saint of Bad Marriage Fraus

Chris Watts in Wisconsin.

Someone previously mentioned how that title sounds like an opera, and I might add, some opera seria operas: Iphigenie in Tauride, Medea in Corinto (both of which deal with child sacrifice). Dido in Carthage, who threatens to slay the son of Aeneas and feed him to her ex lover in a Thyestean feast?

Is Chris Watts a dumb male version of Medea?

"NK said that Chris called her Sunday night and he was sitting on a stripped bed. He had a smirk and his eyes looked strange. I think she said it was around 8pm. It is likely he had finished killing the girls at that point."

That man is a true sociopath. Between that and the doll, he was really relishing the murders.

R285 I don't get the DA releasing all of the stuff without redactions-- must we know that Frankie has depression and the phone number of the teenage babysitter and more?!

R290 Puhleeze

So Chris is now eating powdered sugar mini-donuts? OK. Not exactly "clean" food but not a bad choice when facing 50 years behind bars.

R320 Chris is not Medea. He doesn't have the smarts or the hair.

R290 You are nuts

R304 Ok. Now I see what the DL'ers were saying about the saggy stomach on Chris. His hair covered it up for the most part. The texts between between Chris and NK about "clean food" was just as noxious as SW's video aboit her Italian grandma's cookie recipe when Bella had just been release from the ER with pneumonia.

typo: about ^^^

Keep thinking about the neighbor talking about the loud fights they had. Was it about money or something else? I think he lied about being in the dark re their financial problems.

Medusa sported the snake hair, not Medea.

R330 Yes. You are right.

Chris watts was after anal sex--be it with a man or a woman. Why didn't the DA just say it?

Yes, R329, I’ve wondered about “the loud fights—where he gets really crazy” (per the neighbor with the video of Chris’ truck backing into the driveway).

What were they shouting about? What did Chris “get crazy” about during these fights? And what exactly did the neighbor mean by “crazy”?

I suspect you are completely on target about Chris pretending with cops when he said that he was in the dark about their financial problems...

How would that have helped the case, R332?

“The man sitting behind me in the orange jumpsuit just loves anal sex, your Honor!”

When the cop who showed up at the house to meet to Nikole asked Chris about Shanann's work schedule, Chris said that she "worked all day, every day."

She was always on the damn phone and they were losing money on her flogging Thrive.

R334 Help the case? It helps explain the case.

R333 Wish someone would go back and talk to the neighbor and put it on YouTube.

R337 The neighbor w/ the CCTV is trying to sell his home. The Watts home is now in foreclosure. You may have to wait on the neighbor's next installment video.

Who is the one with the white grand piano?

The Watts home and the glimpse of the CCTV neighbor's house are both pretty depressing --- ugly, cheesy, big, creepy, tract homes.

"ugly, cheesy, big, creepy, tract homes"

Yes, and I couldn't believe all the comments on the police body cam videos about how nice their home was. The whole subdivision looks like a soul-less eyesore.

It really was a crappy neighborhood and house and furnishings.

The Watts house exterior was ugly, joyless and creepy.

The white grand piano house belonged to a senior citizen couple named Watt.

I think Chris may have been in the dark up to a point. When SW had to take 10,000 out of his 401k to pay the mortgage (which they still were behind on), he may have been notified and then realized the depth of debt. Maybe she had been lying about how much Thrive was bringing in and these revelations made him feel desperate and helpless.

On one side had a mistress who let him do anal and on the other there were only burdens he felt he couldn’t escape.

This is a guy with a prison record with a youtube channel, who describes what might happen to CW.

Sobering. Life in prison might be adequate punishment after all......

If CW had lost his shit in the police interrogations, would he have gotten away with it? If instead of talking to them voluntarily for 6 hours (including a polygraph), he had lawyered up immediately and become irrational every time he DID talk to media or LE, would he have gotten away with this?

LOL no R345. All the circumstantial evidence was a neon arrow pointed at him. Eventually the bodies or something more concrete (the sheet maybe) would've popped up.

I don't know. Casey Anthony was way more obvious (partying in nightclubs when her daughter went missing? Body less than a mile from the house?). She got away with it......

He would have been better off not taking the plea and going to trial. There was no evidence the girls were killed earlier and Shanann's alcohol concentration and obsessive Thriving videos might be tricky with a jury. He was definitely on the hook for Shanann and disposing the bodies, but Colorado really doesn't give the Death Penalty and he might have had a shot at freedom sometime in his life.

I wonder why he was not advised to go to trial. think it wasn't so much fear of the DP, but fear of all the media scrutiny and all the embarrassing details getting out. He was very image conscious and maybe not wanting to face all the people at a trial. A true sociopath or psychopath would have rolled the dice with a trial, but I think Chris was ashamed of his behavior and did not want his day in court.

Someone like Casey Anthony had no problem accusing her father of molesting her and anything else she could to stay out of prison.

Well. he was guilty, so whether he pled to it or not, he is where he should be.

Can you imagine Shanananananananananananan's army of thrive friends as witnesses? And NK's phone data up on boards? Shanann's gushy love post videos played for the court? He'd be crucified.

People were calling Chris out online within 24 hours. This case is a textbook presentation of How Not to Kill Your Wife.

BUMP! Is it true there was a 3rd document dump in this case?

Were Chris’ naughty pics to the mistress ever released?

Do we think Chris is a “true sociopath”? If he was, then how did he keep it successfully under wraps for 33 years?

Because on the 33rd year he killed his wife and children. Before that he hadn't had a traffic ticket

Someone on Reddit posted that there is no third doc dump, that what's been released so far is all that will be released.

I love the guy @ r344. And he’s right. Anything can happen to Chris.

Look, it really doesn’t matter if he gets prison justice. He killed his family. Nothing will ever make that change, and there is never adequate justice for that shit.

Finished NvdL's latest book (Rape of Cassandra). It is part IV in his Chris Watts series.

Now I know there are some here who are impatient with my posting summaries of his writing, but having read the book and now re-watching CWs interviews, this all takes on a larger more sinister hue.

His over-arching theory is that the people of Weld County, Colorado are essentially the mythical Cassandra, endowed by Apollo with the ability to accurately predict the future, and with the curse that no one would ever believe her prophecies. Weld County Colorado is the 7th largest center of oil production in the country. They were planning to erect a new battery (A series of oil storage tanks) across the road from the Frederick subdivision that Chris and Shanann's house was in. They are STILL planning to do that. There was a referendum that gained enough voter support to put it as a referendum on the ballot and which the oil industry fought tooth and nail to overcome. They spent $30 million in fact, to defeat the measure. And they were successful in defeating it 2 weeks after these murders occurred and 1 month before Chris Watts' plea deal was struck. Chris Watts knew about this new series of batteries that would be built in such close proximity to the house he and Shannann owned and his fear was not only that he would be stuck with supporting Shanann and the kids for the rest of his life, but he would lose any equity they had in that house when real estate plummeted. And the real estate would plummet not only because of the battery, but because it is likely that all of the co-workers at Andarko probably knew about CW and NK, were also allaware of Shanann's pregnancy, and were complicit in the betrayal of Shanann, and in the dissolution of her marriage. Which would have made Anadarko and the oil industry in Colorado seem even more craven than they already are, especially if the shady Shanann filed a law suit.

Yes CW's motive was all about money, but the larger forces that inspired him to act this way went beyond just selling a house they couldn't afford ----- it went to being underwater on that house, it went to being on the hook for three kids for the next 18 years, it went to being tied to a losing proposition like Shanann for the rest of his prime years. And it turns out he might be a bellweather for that community.

NvdL is an attorney, with an economics degree as well, and this case has inspired a book scheduled for publication next year, that will focus on the avariciousness and greed of our society, at all levels of our society. He contends this case was resolved with such lightening speed so as to minimize the fallout for Anadarko and for the Colorado oil industry more broadly.

Maybe a coincidence or not but, didnt he look up lyrics to the Metallica song "Battery"? Double meaning perhaps?

Possibly! Hadn't thought of that! Good catch R357!

As suggested by R357's post:

Battery Metallica

Lashing out the action, returning the reaction Weak are ripped and torn away Hypnotizing power, crushing all that cower Battery is here to stay Smashing through the boundaries, lunacy has found me Cannot stop the battery Pounding out aggression, turns into obsession Cannot kill the battery

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Man Shanann’s groveling to that loser Chris was pathetic. “Thank you for letting me hold you last night”? Really?? She sounds exhausting to be around. A black hole of neediness.

It’s crazy all the stuff that was released to the public, I’ve never seen anything like it. All those sexy selfies of Nichol and the (supposedly) private text messages to her friend, all Shanann’s oversharing texts with her friends, all that shit is out there. Nichol’s sexy pics are all over HLN for goodness sake. I know she’s a skanky ho and a shady bitch but that’s an incredible invasion of privacy.

She sent those pix on her cell phone, R361. NO expectation of privacy.

Given all of this now public information, when you watch CW during the sentencing hearing, he starts to cry ONLY when they are describing Bella having put up a fight because her frenulum was torn. But if it was torn, not because she put up a fight (NvdL suggests he killed them with an opiate overdose, which soaking in petroleum at high temps for four days made impossible to detect on autopsy).. but because he forced her head thru the opening of the tank..... then the tears seem to be out of being wrongfully accused! Self-pity rather than remorse.

Amazing.

R356, well, I suppose NvdL reads DL, because I posited that theory weeks ago.

Wow, I can finally type an answer. For the longest time, I wasn’t able to. The page would reload endlessly.

R363, I think that’s possible. I don’t think the autopsy was terribly good. As I mentioned elsewhere, it didn’t mention the girls missing their adenoids. I forgot what the tox screen showed.

I really have to look at the discovery footage of the house search. Someone said there was a bin full of prescription meds. I think that’s a bit of a bombshell and no one discusses it on the FB groups. I’d love to know more about that!

Yes, R365, I have been having trouble with the page as well. Even the front page has a large white block that displaces the text.

Anyway, as to the opiates. According to NvdL there were cooler boxes (I assume with locks?) in the basement that contained extra meds, required by Shanann for her "Challenges." According to vdL, she would have had lots of prescriptions for pain-killers as lupus is painful.

Such an AMATEUR, Chris. This guy stayed out of police custody for a MONTH!

Well duh, R367. His mother was HELPING him. Chris only had NK to help him. Fucking useless.

I'd like to know what was said when he agreed to accept the plea deal. There was reportedly a lot of screaming and yelling. I want to know what CW said exactly. I am SURE I

^^sorry. Trouble getting text to appear.

I started to say I was sure there was a recording or transcript of that conversation.

R367 there was no snoopy Nickole there to ruin it for him.

R367, that guy isn't hot, who cares!

How the hell are they living in Colorado?? Is it the altitude or what?

SNORT R372

After all this time, we still don’t know if she was prescribed opiates? That would be quite helpful. How hot was that oil? That is horrific.

I think the poster who caught the double entendre of the Battery lyrics deserves the gold star of the day, there is no way in fucking hell that’s a coincidence! That **is* why he chose that song. Which only locks down the theory of money money money money money money money.

I’m still not convinced he didn’t kill the kids first, it would be great if that could be proven as it just reveals almost everything.

I don’t think the story with NK is over — there’s too much meat on the bone. No way I’m hell is an aggressive journalist/author going to turn loose of her. She holds all the pieces. At a bare minimum she knew he was going to do it (I believe). At worst, she encourages it but didn’t help with details. She was like his fluffer for murder. Sick bitch.

Chris Watts will have to learn to take it rather than stick it in something. But he won't be in the general population, or will he?

Who gives a fuck where this monster is? You're all nuts.

We are fascinated by the stark combination of here of beauty and violence.

Chris killed the girls first, no doubt about it for me. The huge tip off was the FaceTime call he placed to Nichol, lying on a bare mattress. I have no idea if he used opiates to OD the girls, or at the very least sedate them. Honestly, I hope he did.

He killed Shan’ann ASAP. She knew something was wrong before she got home because he wouldn’t send her pics of the girls sleeping. The only thing that I question is if he told her he killed the girls first, before killing her.

As far as the Anadarko angle: I researched Anadarko weeks ago, and I wrote in one of the previous threads, that Anadarko was planning to develop sites right behind their home. I also theorized that due to previous “accidents” that Anadarko had in Colorado, and Texas, that Chris might have planned an “accident” on the site where he buried Shan’ann, and entombed the girls inside the oil tanks.

Anadarko had a HUGE blow up happen in a residential neighborhood, where several tanks blew up. The accident caused homes to blow up miles away, due to lines that were placed underground. Several homes literally exploded, and several home owners died.

It was my theory, that Chris was planning a blow up at the site where he disposed of the bodies. His plan was foiled due to time constraints, and Nickole, Shan’ann’s friend.

Shan’ann’s mother told the police, as soon as her daughter and grandchildren went missing, to check oil tanks where Chris had been that day. This was one of the first things she said to the police, when she was told by Shan’ann’s friend, Nickole, that Shan’ann’s car was in the garage.

I don’t believe in crazy psychics, who are using EVP apps to communicate with the dead. However, I do believe that there is so much that we do not understand, as how to our brains work.

We process so much information in our day to day lives, and our interactions with others. We unconsciously discard much of it, or store it away, in order to make it from day to day. We prioritize what we need for the day, and then what we want, etc. As a result, we do not put an entire picture together, until the final puzzle piece is presented. I do this all the time with Trump and money. I gauge the market, and performance of funds, based on what I read at 4:00 am, or later that day, whatever the case may be. John Kelly resigns: clue # 1, Cohen sentence: clue # 2, pulling out of Syria: alarm bells, reallocate right NOW. I do this with deliberate awareness, however, there are hundreds of little, tiny things that also affect my decisions regarding money, and regarding life. I find myself pulling out bits of previously stored information, that seem meaningless at the time in which it is first presented to me, but allows me to paint a final picture if and when I need it. We all do this. Some of are just more aware about it than others.

As soon as Shan’ann’s mom heard her daughter was missing, she KNEW. Not only did she “know”, but she knew where. Not logistically “where”, but manner of disposal.

As soon as Nickole knew her friend was incommunicado, she “knew”, too. That’s why she was on it, ASAP.

Shan’ann also KNEW, the minute she posted that life like doll photo on Facebook.

Women are so fucking excellent at processing information. They/we muddle the process with a lot of unnecessary bullshit, like necromancing, psychic readings via Tarot Cards, etc.

The BIGGEST takeaway here for all Frauen, and everyone, really, is learn to hone in your information and instincts. Look at everything around you in a way that allows you to make better decisions. Sometimes, you have to identify denial. You MUST discard it, in order to protect yourself, and your interests.

If you sense and identify something that makes you raise an eyebrow, stop. Process why. Go inside, and dig out the tiny clues and links. Developing this type of awareness in a way that becomes conscious, can save your life.

And no, I have not yet read “The Gift of Fear”, because I already understand that I too, “KNOW”.

Has SW’s mom ever gone into detail about why she thought CW disposed of them in oil? That is very prescient of her.

R375, not that I’m aware of.

Like I wrote above, we don’t always understand what we know, or why, until it’s too late.

I think women are better at this than men. I also believe that for this very reason, women can be excellent detectives, investigators, analysts, etc.

Instincts need to be homed in with methodology, of what ever it is that we are analyzing, at the time.

I think it is almost certain he killed the kids first.

And I do not see how they could distinguish between smothering and an opiate overdose after 4 days in hot oil.

Money. That is the thing that adds mny more layers of complexity we still have no clue about. I'd love toknow if the DA in Weld county is an elected position, and if Anadarko is a big supporter of Rourke,

Killing the kids first is dumb. But then, Chris is dumb. Imagine if Shsnann’s flight was delayed overnight and she wanted to see the kids at breakfast time

But r381, we do know much of their financial situation, via the document dumps.

Chris was capable of having several motives for murdering his family. Why does it have to be only one motive?

I am under the impression that NK was an unwitting catalyst to the murders. He was absolutely overwhelmed with their financial dire straits, but he might have continued plugging right along, had he not fallen for another woman. This particular variable, clouded his judgement. That is not to indicate that he may not have eventually murdered his family, but it most certainly is factor, and a compelling one.

That's irrelevant R382. He killed her as soon as she got into the house, before she ever got upstairs. If that was not the case, there would have been screams and there were none.

Putting them in hot oil also eliminated the timing concern. Let's say Shanann didn't get in till 9 AM on Monday instead of 2 AM. He could check the flight to ascertain her arrival at the house, put the kids in oil. Go home and kill Shanann, and bury her that night. He'd have to claim to be sick and go back home from work. Either way, he could manipulate the times with little problem.

No worries about Shanann being missing till the next day. He was always going to have an alibi problem, but if he could maximize the time between their disappearance and discovery of bodies, he might have been able to create reasonable doubt.

If he killed the girls first and put their bodies in the oil tanks before Shanann got home, he would have had to use Shanann’s car to transport the bodies as his work vehicle had GPS. Anandarko employees were not allowed to use them for personal use, and the GPS only tracked him going out to the work site Monday morning.

I do believe the kids were killed earlier in the evening as Shanann had asked him to send her a photo of the kids that evening and he sent her a photo of grilled chicken instead. Additionally, Nichol told the cops that when they communicated around 8pm that evening, he was sitting on a stripped bed with a weird look in his eyes and a smirk on his face.

Well I think he could have gone to the Cervi ranch to dispose of the bodies with the truck (with GPS), then claim to have food poisoning or something and go home.

Interesting twist!

Colorado governor Hickenlooper has pardoned 135 people so far, including seven people serving life without the possibility of parole for m urder.

Interesting twist!

Colorado governor Hickenlooper has pardoned 135 people so far, including seven people serving life without the possibility of parole for m

urder.

Interesting twist!

Colorado governor Hickenlooper has pardoned 135 people so far, including seven people serving life without the possibility of parole for m

urder.

I do not know WTF the problem is with DL lately, but as soon as a thread reaches about 300 posts, it becomes almost impossible to respond to anything.

Anyway, I started to post that in Colorado, the governor has been pardoning murderers. See R389. And in Wisconsin, they have instituted a suspension of pardons. Completely. No pardons.

"Pardons, WI Per the Governor's office, the pardon process has been suspended indefinitely. Applications currently on file will be saved for future use. However, no new applications will be accepted."

Makes you wonder what is going on in terms of managing CW in prison.

Gone to ranch when R386? He wasn’t working on Sunday.

If Shanann's plane was delayed until the morning it could have saved her life. First she would have asked to see the kids and he wouldn't have been able to produce them. He would have to have come up with an excuse and in CW's stupid non-creative mind he probably would have said playdate and then would have to tell her whose house. When she called that person she would find out there were no daughters there and called authorities or snoopy neighbor to investigate. Unless of course he said he was having problems with his phone and disconnected SW which in that case she would return home and be murdered anyway. Erna needs to fix this platform. It's acting hinky.

R392 exactly. Little miss Constant Facetime would've wanted to see the girls before her flight. CW is a dumbass and wouldn't have girls to produce.

I am not seeing the problems with her flight delay. Do not think it would have saved her. Could someone explain that to me?

R391, what are you talking about?

R394 Shanann was a helicopter mom. If delayed overnight, she would’ve wanted to call the girls. No girls to call, big red flag

Just to let you all know that you're competing for Chris's attention with a bunch of crazy women.

(it's the Washington Post, open a private browser if you can't see it)

R397, he has gotten a total of about 100 letters. People need to calm down about that. Given that this story made international news, 100 letters from a pool of billions of people, over the course of three months, is not that much.

2 things:

First, I am somewhat relieved at the idea that he killed them with an overdose of drugs rather than smothering them. I know it makes little difference, but I prefer to think there was that much less suffering in the world.

Second, am watching the initial police search of the house when CW raced home and let the cops in and they are searching everything..... and my question is, what did he do with the trash? If there was literally shit on the floor, and he had to clean up that mess, and there was a strong smell of cleaner, and he used blue latex gloves (of which they found only one above the fridge), where did he put the inevitable trash?

Hearing little Dieter wail is a heart-breaking noise.

R390, Chris is not being pardoned by the governor of Colorado, at least not at this point in time.

Wisconsin has nothing to do with Watts’ eligibility for a state pardon. Chris is serving time in a Wisconsin prison, however, his crimes were committed and prosecuted in the state of Colorado.

Two things:

1. CW admitted killing Shanann and the kids, and of course it is insanity. But his poor mother has a point: it was all secretive and riushed.

2. Why have the inner workings of this plea deal and all the rest of it never been made public? Why has the DA not been forced to reveal all of his decisions and motions and legalities?

Just does seem secretive and rushed.

Because he was employed by Anadarko, r401.

R399, if it was actual turds, he could have picked it up with toilet paper and flushed it. And then used a wet mop. That’s what I would have done. The idea of solid shit in a garbage can is disgusting when it can be flushed down a toilet.

R401, I agree that it was a railroad job/hush-hush deal. And I’m telling you, Nichol is knee deep in shit. I wish I could let go of this, but I’m really suspicious of the DA and NK. Of course Chris belongs in prison for life, but there’s more to the story.

R401, I thought they initially blamed Shan’ann and then acknowledged that Chris had done it once they talked to the DA? Is their story different now? Also, I work in law, and the inner workings of pleas are not made known. The true anomaly of this case is how many LE investigative records have been publicly released.

The mother is in complete denial in the R401 clip. Interesting that she and her husband didn't attend the wedding because she didn't get along with Shaann.

Chris knows how the plea deal went down. He was there. She should ask him. He could have said no.

Chris is an incredibly passive type, he isn't capable of saying "no". He found it easier to kill his whole family than tell Shanann "no".

He wasn’t so passive when they had their screaming fights.

R406,CW's mom said when they asked him, "Are you sure about this plea deal?", the public defender (brain-dead woman) stepped in and said, This will not be discussed! IF you bring this up again, we will shut this down."

All she keeps saying in that video is, "Why the secrecy? Why can't we know the whole story?

I know they accepted his guilt by the time of sentencing, but they still claim they have never been made privy to the details of the case or what the conditions discussed for the plea deal were and are not allowed to discuss it. She said they were not allowed to write him letters after he was arrested. She said, "How could this be bad? "Dear Son, we love you." How could that be bad?

Valid questions, I thought.

Who fucking cares r409? He's a fucking murderer. Nothing he says will lessen that taint and stigma. His mom is an asshole to act like there is any way at all that this is reasonable and rational. She should cut her throat in shame for having raised a psycho. It's assholes like her who won't say no to their kids that create these pieces of shit.

I don't think Chris was one of those bratty disrespectful kids growing up. Just the opposite. They should find his old classmates. They probably barely remember him.

Well he's made up for it now with bratty and disrespectful behavior.

I’m becoming more convinced that sociopaths like Chris are born, not made.

Everyone would have understood if he hated Shan’ann, and wanted to move on, but to kill her? Even then, surely some men would have thought, “I’ve wanted to kill my wife several times. I understand.”

All of that said, killing your kids is an extraordinary act. A normal man does not have the ability to murder their little children. It is psychopathic, and please understand, Chris does not process emotion as we do. We are more torn up about this than he is. Believe it.

We call these people evil, but that is not an accurate description. They just don’t feel. They feel pleasure like we do, but it stops there. They just mimic us, and they do so quite well.

This crime isn’t about morality or even money, or love, hate, and lust. This crime is about people who can kill their own flesh and blood as systematically as changing their shoes, or brushing their teeth. And the real horror here is that some of us could be married to them, or give birth to them, and we have no idea that we are in the presence of a ticking time bomb.

anyone think he has aspergers?

Damn r413, you’re scaring me. You present a side I never thought about. You seem to have experience in this - police officer? You’re insight seems very familiar.

That's nothing new r415, wasn't Nietzsche's Superman devoid of guilt? Ted Bundy certainly was, he said guilt was a wasted emotion, he's right, of course, but you still don't kill people because it's an awful thing to do. Chris is an asshole who does feel things, like his lust and love for his new anal buddy, and felt that she was worth taking out his family for.

You know, R410 and the other Frauen who feel as you do, this is a thread on the Chris Watts murders. It is generally fascinating that someone who seems like such a nice guy could KILL HIS WIFE AND KIDS! Yeah we all GET that he is a horrible person, and that his crimes are reprehensible. That is not the point.

The point is trying to understand the factors that culminate in this tragedy: any mental illness that he has that is not yet understood and that we as a society should try to get a handle on; the financial stresses that fully 2/3 of American society labor under; the bigger picture of the oil industry and Big Energy; the politics of that industry and its control over the legal system; the issues in the wife that made her vulnerable.

Railing on and on about how you don't understand why anyone wastes time on this is annoying. If you do not find this fascinating why are you even here? Go away! Quit yet bitchin.

I didn't say it wasn't interesting r417, I fucking said that his mom's wailing about the cloak of secrecy is fucking annoying, because it is. He fucking did it, that is interesting enough, we don't need to find some goddamn Adnan Syed bullshit of him actually being innocent and getting railroaded by "the man". And his mom is a fucking piece of shit to keep trying to cast aspersions at his wife, who probably was a shrew but is now a very dead one.

Jesus, R418, take a pill. His mom is a piece of the story too and she is more mystified than anyone else, and more heart-broken than anyone else. Better to know that than to speculate on Watts parental silence.

The interview with the Chris’ mom was both interesting and pathetic.

When asked about his childhood, she claims there was nothing that set of alarm bells that something like this could have happened to him. Umm, nothing “happened to him.” He was the perpetrator, not the victim.

She couldn’t answer what she thought the truth was or if she 100% believed Chris was guilty. Major denial.

I didn’t realize she hadn’t attended the wedding, and yet she spent two weeks a year their house in CO. Those trips must have been awkward!

yeah, I thought that too. How do you boycott the wedding and then visit twice a year?

I am sure though, the visits didn't happen till the kids were born. One thing to hate daughter-in-law, another thing entirely to miss out on grand-kids and for Moms to deny their kids a set of grandparents. So I am sure both sides thought they were being the bigger person.

As ipossible as it is for me to think about being in Chris Watts' shoes, I find putting myself in his parents' shoesa lot easier. To have a child you have reared and LOVED their whole entire lives and then? Have them do the most despicable unforgiving thing possible in life. I don't think I could hate that child. I would always love him till the day I died. I would hate what he did, I would be convinced there was a horrible biological defect there, but turn my back on him? I couldn't do it, and I would probably live in denial of the crimes as well. Because there would be no other way to stay alive.

They didn’t make guests sleep in that creepy basement did they?

W&W for R417! Bravo! You summed things up very well.

We are trying to better understand humans and human nature here with this thread and with this case.

This crime, the emotional complexity of it all, and all of the extraordinarily intimate and detailed information unexpectedly released to the public make this case fascinating and perfect for analysis and study: not just of the perpetrator, but of the victims, the circumstances leading up to the crime, the community the crimes occurred in, and American society at large.

I am so grateful for these insightful DL threads and am both fascinated by what we know so far and with the answers we’re trying to come up to the questions we may neve have an official answer for...

OT - According to the autopsy, SW had 'a perfectly formed stone' in her gall bladder (or words to that effect).

Crimerocket has an interesting tidbit.

"Postscript: The Discovery Documents also provide fascinating insight into how Watts changed his parking habits at the time of the murders, not only in terms of the truck [which was normally parked to the left of the front door, and Watts typically exited the house through the front door], but the Lexus as well. Quotes from witnesses saying CW was parking his truck down the street while Shanann was in NC, and putting the Lexus in the driveway. ….. The Discovery Documents are unambiguous about Watts not only backing up his truck onto the driveway on the morning of the disappearance, but that witnesses had observed the Lexus’s rear hatch was open at the same time. SEU was advised that the male subject was last observed at the residence loading items into a white Lexus SUV bearing State of Colorado 528 ZJV. ….. Information was relayed (by the surveillance team) that Watts had been observed loading items into this vehicle early in the morning of the disappearance which was described by the neighbors as being unusual behavior. He was at the vehicle for several minutes with the rear hatch of the Lexus open and the doors of the truck also open. He then departed but immediately returned to the truck for a few ore minutes.

This could mean that one or more bodies were stowed in the boot of the Lexus prior to being transferred to the truck. It’s also possible then, that one or more of the bodies wasn’t carried outside in plain sight, but transferred instead in the semi-enclosed garage area, in the blind area of Trisnatich’s camera [in other words, from the Lexus hatch to the very rear of the truck]."

So the only body he loaded directly into the truck was Shanann's. He may have stored the girls' bodies in the car in case Shanann came into the house through the garage. If he did indeed use the basement as a processing area, he wouldn't have wanted her to see the bodies, obviously, so maybe stored the in the car to forestall her panicky screams.

You give CW far too much credit for planning r425. CW had ZERO clue as to pretty much anything outside his oil field job.

reviewing the videos showing the inside of the hideous CW house. So tasteful DL decorators, IS there a way to decorate these hideous McMansions that can create a decent living space? Those cavernous empty spaces just seem impossible......

Topic for a new thread maybe, r427?

R420 Chris' parents spent two week babysitting the girls so that Chris and Shanann could attend a Thrive convention in the Dominican Republic and stay on for two weeks.

What was awkward came from SW's mother's description to LE. She said that she and Frank were at the CO house at the same time as CW's parents but Cindy kept the girls upstairs away from SW's parents. Cindy barked something like, "I came out to do this."

All 3 women (Shanann, her mom and Chris' mom) were bossy and married to passive men.

It sounds like the latest woman-killer in CO , Patrick Frazee, has a bossy mom who couldn't get along with his fiancee baby-mama. She's being charged w/ dumping the victim's phone.

There was a video of SW, CW and the kids walking with Chris' parents in downtown Denver and looked very awkward. Of course Shanann was taping the whole thing while the dad was walking ahead with Bella and the mom was looking uncomfortable and trying to stay clear of being videotaped. Chris was carrying CeCe, everyone seemed really tired and Shanann kept rambling about Thrive.

Give it a rest with the victim shaming R430

If Chris drugged the girls, it would have been detected in the autopsies. I'm not sure that signs of GERD, asthma, or tree-nut allergies would be detected in an autopsy. I believe that GERD can be handled through a change in diet by avoiding the triggers. I stopped my Silent Reflux within days of eliminating the foods and range juice causing the problem . Silent Reflux comes from acidic food and liquids going down the throat rather than GERD where acid comes up from the stomach to the esophogus. The girls were consuming Thrive crap and I bet they were sleeping (nap and bedtime too close to have eaten). A raised pillow helps GERD too.

I have heard of kids who have frequent ear aches, getting the drainage tubes but I've never heard of any kids getting their adnoids removed or getting chiropractic adjustments.

In the Christmas cookie making attempt in the kitchen the day after the girls spent the night in the ER for pneumonia, Bella tells her mom that she;s cold. I wonder if they had trouble heating all of the house due to fuel costs.

There's ne video were the girls are bundled up in snow parkas, each being carried by a parent, and they are waiting out in the slushy snow to say high to Santa. SW had posted something about cold RX and an antibiotic. I don't know if she meant she had taken them or one of the girls.

There was just really bad judgement going on. The Santa was just a guy hanging out w/ 5 other guys on the street. Why didn't the Watts stay in the car w/ the heater on and CW or SW go ask the Santa to come over to to the car to say hi to the girls?

I'm curious what and how much painkillers SW was taking and perhaps stock-piling in the basement? Was Chris locking them away from her?

Someone upthread said that that Shannann had box of meds. All I saw was the body cam that showed her open dresser drawer in the bedroom. A DLer explained that there was RX for anti-nausea medicine that could be dangerous to the developing baby.

Dying your hair, getting acrylic nails, frequent flying, wearing patches, drinking shakes, eating snackbars loaded w/ caffeine and bitter orange are all things that many pregnant women wouldn't do, especially one w/ a hi-risk pregnancy due to the mother having lupus.

Which video was the one where SW was slurringthe word "oven?"

What were in all of of those Rubbermaid storage tubs lined up in the basement --- LuluRoe clothes, Thrive extras that SW had to buy to keep the 2 car allowances?

I think the financial stress was the number one cause of the murders along w/ Thrive black patches that boosted CW's testerone. Wild spending, putting down your partner (especially in front of his friends, kids, family and the social media world), and having a kid against his wishes are extremely dangerous.

Something is off with Chris' brain. I wish that he'd allow a scan. I wonder if he is going to appeal at some point (if that is legally possible after a plea).

I went through the autopsy results and there seemed to be detection of benzos in SW's body. I'm not a doctor so I don't know if anyone else came across this same information.

Based on the autopsy, SW had Benzos in her system.

Could one of you dear Frauen please post a link to the autopsy report so I can see it with my own two eyes?

At what time did Chris leave the house with the bodies?

Did he go to the work site with the oil tanks in the middle of the night, hide the bodies, then return home to change and shower and clean before going to work?

Or, did he just leave for work a couple of hours early, hide the bodies, and then drive to the office? If so, he must have been dirty and sweaty.

Christ on a cracker, r435 read the thread.

R432, all good questions, but a couple have already been answered.

It seems that the reason the kids were placed in the tanks was of course that they would have been excellent hiding places but also because it is believed that crude oil for 4 days at a high temperature would make it impossible to detect opiates in the blood stream.

While having tonsils and adenoids removed was more common in the past, it remains fairly common in children, especially if they have asthma.

Shanann was a compulsive shopper it seems, so those Rubbermaid bins could have been filled with god only knows what unnecessary crap. I don't think anyone has revealed what her prescriptions have been but given that she has Imitrex for migraines and pain meds for lupus, I would be willing to bet she has plenty.

As to Chris' body disposal, it seems he did all the body disposal in the morning at work. He wore crappy old clothes (navy blue shirt and old jeans and rubber boots----visible on the neighbors security cam), but then changed his clothes at some point because when he came home he was wearing a clean grey shirt and different pants and shoes. He routinely left the house at 5:30 or so, and got to the site at about 6 or 6:30. The co-workers didn't meet him out there till more than an hour after he got there. That's when he dumped the girls in the tanks, and spent 20 minutes digging a shallow grave. Body disposal took less than an hour.

The topic of meds just inspired a thought: given that falling on the shady side of the law has not bothered Shanann in the past (embezzlement with the previous NC boss), was it only a matter of time before she started dealing drugs? I mean oxycontin pills are like $40/pill according to the people on Intervention ---- that price is why addicts turn to heroin.

[quote]I don't think anyone has revealed what her prescriptions have been but given that she has Imitrex for migraines and pain meds for lupus, I would be willing to bet she has plenty.

Refer to Autopsy Report in this thread in lieu of supposition.

rank speculation, I know. But honestly, they were awfully desperate. I mean the man killed his family.

I read the autopsy reports R440, and I do NOT think they listed her prescriptions, only what they found in the analysis. She might have had many many more drugs stashed away than were actually on board, especially given her pregnancy.

R433, I DID make note of the benzodiazepam in Shanann's autopsy results, but the DA addressed only the alcohol. Maybe that was the point: divert attention from the bigger elephant in the middle of the room. Benzodiazepams are never found in the body naturally (not a bi-product of decomposition, for example), and I haven't looked in a while, but I don't think anyone has ever identified the naturally occurring ligand for that receptor.

My guess is that Shanann popped a valium on the way home, dreading the confrontation with Chris about another woman, a $60 salmon dinner, a pregnancy she may have undertaken on her own, and a rather bleak future. I am sure she was ready to play hard ball and needed some fortification.

Wouldn’t CW have challenged her when they texted about the pregnancy if she’d don It without his approval? R442

I don't think so, R443. It would not be very nice of a husband to throw that charge at his pregnant wife. And Chris was all about being thought a nice guy.

r431 Talking about a video is not victim shaming, Shanann loved her Thrive and was nuts about it. You are probably a Thriver yourself.

I HAVE looked r437 aka the Christ on a Cracker troll. I don't see it. I guess you are just too much of a cunt to direct me to the post number or a link. So helpful!

....

Many thanks r447!

R447! That is awesome! Crime Rocket has saved the day,, because as I recall, the Weld County DA was only going to have the doc dumps available for 30 days! So download and save while you can!

The decomp in oil made it impossible to detect any benzodiazepines or opiates inside of the girls.

Pain meds are extremely difficult to get in abundance for the purpose of abusing them. You have to be willing to pay LOTS of money, in order to get a hold of pain meds, on the street. This is why addicts end up using heroin. It’s much cheaper.

People with Lupus, aren’t given pain meds. Do you guys understand what it takes to get legitimate prescriptions for even Vicodin??? Broken bones, surgery, and end of life, palliative care, are pretty much the only conditions under which pain meds are prescribed. And even then, the pharmacist has the right to deny the order, hold the order, of not fill the order for 24 hours, due to having special orders needed in order to get the meds on site.

Move to West Virginia r450 You'll have plenty.

[quote]The decomp in oil made it impossible to detect any benzodiazepines or opiates inside of the girls.

Reference with regard to benzos was in relation to Shannan. Not the kids who were found in the oil tanks.

Chris must have had nerves of steel to put the kids in those oil tanks. How he didn’t break down doing that is crazy. I get hating SW and wanting her out, but how have the kids not affected him more?

Because...psycho R453?

R453, this is why I think he gave them drug overdoses rather than smothering them. In his mind it was like putting a dog to sleep. He loved the dog, but he was being humane. Better off this way.

Not saying that is the way I think ---- I think that is how he thought of it all.

Shanann of course is a totally different story. I think he took pleasure in killing her and in having her know he was wrecking his revenge. He could barely contain his giggles during those media interviews. I think he was gleeful at thinking he had gotten away with it, at having solved all of his problems and at the prospect of getting to fuck NK for the next decade or so.

Once they were all dead, disposing of the bodies was just finishing up the job. I don't think he thought much about it all any more at that point.

At least this tale gives a heads up. She was looking to high tail it. Could she have a legal abortion at that point? Don't get on me but I think she was having second thoughts on the pregnancy. Perhaps a tragic miscarriage was planned because no way would one drink, pill and Thrive. A woman wouldn't dream of a drink, right?

I think she was a secret low buzz alcoholic. I've known a few. Vodka in everything. They'd hide it in water bottles and wear workout gear. Very fawning, overly excitable behavior. Can you purchase spirits in supermarket in CO? Her vids had those vibes. Two of these women would even get down on their husbands for consuming wine even. Cat was out of bag with unrelated hospital stays and they'd start DTing the first few days in hospital. Knew woman whose husband only drank beer but upon hospital visit he started shaking. She was surprised when i told her the reason then confirmed by medical staff. Mid 60s, not one 6 pack like she assumed but 2 packs a night.

How do we know that Chris really did this?

Hi Cindy R458!!

R458, I could believe that NK put Chris under hypnosis and he is yet to wake up. That would explain his emotionless responses to everything.

NK has been a puppetmaster the whole time.

Wait...I do not live a life with Frauen. I am learning so much. Is this constant "low grade buzz" true? Not at ALL debating you r457 I am just fascinated to learn more. How do these Frauen take care of everyday stuff if they are high all of the time? Not a snotty question, I really don't see how they could. Nannies? They seem too broke for that. Do their husbands know and/or partake? I am so intrigued. I have read on here how so many Frauen and Yoga moms do the "wine o'clock" shit, but I half discounted it. Now, I think I was wrong. Anyone, please chime in.

Good question R458.

The murders could have been committed by someone associated with a small foreign faction. Colorado is rife with them.

They function fine and enthusiastic on the low constant buzz. Lends energy. Plus SW added thrive. These women I knew hit their coffee with vodka as to stave off DT in morn

R462 I love you

The oil in the tanks was warm not hot.

The link to the first document dump is below. It was supposed to be public for only 30 days beyond Nov 22 but it's still up. It's a pdf that can be downloaded.

It was distressing to read that when the hazmat team carried the two little bodies from the two drained tanks, there was "skin slippage". According to the report, one of CeCe's hands was "degloved." That is a nice way of saying that the skin on her hand fell off and they had to retrieve it. Bella's skin fell off too and stuck to a board.

The second document dump was password protected and only news media outlets could access it not the general public. That's why we are still getting drips and drabs. Denver 7 is usually the station that updates quickly.

As far as I know, there was no report that poo or traces of was found anywhere in the Watts house. That was speculation on the part of DLer that dead bodies can expel poop and pee. But, the cops did say that the house smelled of cleaning products and all of the fans were on.

Chris did dump a sheet from the master bed into a tall white plastic garbage bin inside the house. The sheet matched the sheet that was found SW and Nico's grave. A drone had spotted the sheet and the freshly dug portion of ground. I think the drone may have also spotted the covered hole that CW's shit in nearby.

It is likely a wild animal pulled the sheet from the grave. But, CW made incredibly stupid mistakes. The sheet by the grave could be one ofthose mistakes. Nikole interupted his cleanup at the house. He just didn't have time to get rid of the sheet in garbage bin.

This the developer's website for the Watts' housing tract. You can see other design options that would have been better---hardware floors, white kitchen, etc. It was said a long time ago by a DLer that the Watts house didn't have any upgrades and had the cheap wll-to-wall carpeting. I don't think I ever saw any of the view out the windows due to the hideous Venetian blinds in every room.

Forgot the link. Below is Wyndam Hill in Frederick, CO by Richmond Homes. The Watts house looks to be a variation (mirror image) of the Hemingway. 5 bedrooms. 4 baths. SW and CW's parents probably sleep in one of the family rooms. One of the sofas probably was a pull out bed.

typo: Wyndham Hill

R455 The conclusion of the medical examiner was that the girls were smothered. Bella fought back. Shanann was strangled.

Is CW well hung or no? So what is the verdict?

R469: Before the page reloads: it seems the Watts took on boarders to help defray costs. The Rzuceks lived with them for 15 months. Christina Meacham stayed with them for at least a few weeks to “help out” after Shanann’s surgeries and said they barely had money for food. They were supposed to have the Rosenbergs come live with them.

But where did those people sleep? Supposedly one bedroom was a playroom for the girls (who already had their own bedrooms) and one was Shanann’s “office”. If you’re having people live with you and pitch in for expenses, at least give them a dedicated room where they can close the door and avoid the sales pitch and haranguing.

" a dedicated room where they can close the door and avoid the sales pitch and haranguing... " was just one of the reasons that Chris started sleeping in the unfinished basement.

Don't forget that Frankie spent 2 months with SW and Cw after Bella was born.

Someone was spreading the rumor that Chris was leaving Shanann for Josh Rosenburg. The name Josh has come up on various EVP sessions.

There are many things that people here are assuming but not actually supported. Not because DLers are lazy, but because a lot of "data" was not made available. Yes we got to have access to autopsy reports and video interrogations, but a lot of more pedestrian data was NOT made available: browser history of CW's phone and home computers, CW's laptop, NK's computers and phone's browsing history, CW's jail visits and conversations, CW's job and activities and skill sets, facts of decomposition in crude oil (think of the forensic evidence including maggot types on Caylee Anthony's body, for comparison)…..

Not sure why, but I think it is pretty clear the DA manipulated the public presentation of this case and the manipulation to confession. CW is in prison and deserves to be there, so that's fine and good, but the protection of Anadarko and NK and other aspects of this case? Not so good.

Just curious, the people believing the Anadarko cover up, age range?

Agree with r475 about DA manipulation.

R476, I don’t buy the whole Anadarko conspiracy, but do think it’s interesting that they worked so closely with investigators so early on.

No shade to anyone that believes the Anadarko conspiracy but DA shenanigans is way more probable.

R478, it’s not a conspiracy for a company to want to do everything possible to limit bad PR, due to an employee murdering his family and dumping their bodies on property that they lease.

So just to be clear, there is not going to be a third data dump?

This guy, fellow DL sleuths, is a Colorado defense atty who is pretty good apparently. And he makes it clear that our Chrissy did himself in.

Seriously, after watching this I had a way different perspective. If CW had lawyered up with anything other than those appalling brain-dead public defenders,, he might be the second Casey Anthony.

This has probably come up before, but I don't recall seeing the details. How did Chris kill Shannann and not have any scratches or marks? If he attacked her head-on, you'd think he'd be covered in scratches from her nails and bruises from her fingers. Did he sneak up behind her so her hands couldn't get to him? Did he use his bare hands or a scarf or rope?

The public defenders really weren’t great advocates for CW. So sad.

Forever in our hearts!

DAN!!

So this CW is just gonna sit in jail and never tell us the details of this crime, i.e. motive, etc. I mean, when is some writer gonna get in there and the full story?

We need......Keth Morrison, r486.

R487, Inspired! Keith Morrison is JUST the man to get all of the details in this case!!!!

Morning of body disposal, Scooby is at his house with her son, and she has called the cops. She says Shanann is diabetic so she's worried.

Officer Coonrod gets CW on the phone and he says, "We're just concerned cuz her friend says she's diabetic."

If CW had said, "She's not diabetic! She's just pissed off at me."

The man cannot think on his feet.

I wonder if he's even thinking about the fact that this is Christmas and his daughters are gone. Or is he such a sociopath that the concept of loss doesn't apply to him? Does he regret what he did at all?

They could have CW 'medicated' for the first few weeks/days to let him adjust to his Forever Home. Doubt he misses his former home life - He just likely fantasizes about his lover, Nicole.

She probably meant pregnancy related diabetes.

He doesn’t miss his family life one bit. He erased them from the planet.

Agree with with r491, he’s fantasizing about Nicole At least for now.

I just think CW should be examined and studied like a lab rat for the rest of his life. It keeps happening over and over; it's a waste to punish without giving him an opportunity to participate in research. I am sure he'd want to. The only thing more fascinating than Nicole is himself.

And of course he does not miss Shanann or the kids.

Also gotta say, Scooby Nicole ought NOT to have been allowed in that house when he let the cops in. WTF? She just walks in as though it is her right to go in there.

Their wedding photo kind of **screams** disassociation. CW just stands there robotically with that haunting vacant stare that has become his trademark.

OT - Toni Collette should play the lead role of SW.

Too bad she's too old. Faye Dunaway in her youth would have been great as the nails-on-chalk-board-level-of-cunty-bitch Nichol Kessinger.

Luke Bryan starring as CW.

Ryan Reynolds for Chris. Chrissy Metz for nosy Nickole.

JLaw as WP fugitive Nicole Kessenger.

The FB page pointed out a young Bridget Fonda to play SW.

Who will *I* play?

"You" can play an Oil Tank, r503.

Can you play all 5, R503? Emmy for SURE!

I don't know R500. Do you think she'd be willing to gain weight for the role?

The Shanann Watts Story: Thrivin' Plus.

Jesus Christ R507!!

The Thrive execs must've been devastated when Shanann was killed. She was the only one who looked healthy. Dear glasses, please don't go sleeveless again. And if you ever called me to discuss a new health program, I don't know if I could hang up fast enough before you hear me burst out laughing.

Those women are truly porkers. It’s funny how SW is the hot one of the group.

Tori would be great as Scooby Nicole. I could see her bursting into the housing and being the first one to suspect Chris. The could even write the son out of the movie and let Tori take over finding the phone, etc in the home.

What role could I play?

Chris looks so much hotter with the beard. Just like Steve Gold who recently shaved his, but quickly grew it back after all the negative Instagram comments.

Only Divine could have played SW and given a full rendering of her character.

Can't stop laughing at "forever home" Perfect. Hope he lives a very, very, very long, miserable life. That said, I wonder if he isn't happier now? What a fucking freak.

CW celebrated his first Christmas in the big house. Wonder if he's sticking to his clean living regimen.

He might actually be happier. For now, anyway. There's plenty of time to work out without the distractions of a job, of a nagging wife and young kids. He's received lots of love letters from women he's never met. However, over the next few years, as he watches TV, he'll notice a recurring theme of men who just want a home with a loving wife and adoring kids. Then, he'll realize that he had it all, the whole American Dream, and he threw it away.

Don’t know if it’s already been posted, but here is the police phone interview with Trent Bolte’s mother. And long story short, Trent lies about everything, and I mean everything.

Well, Christmas has come and gone, and right now, her loved ones are noticing the absence of the box of thrive items they typically received from her this time of year. "Because I love you, I want you to thrive in the new year."

R503 Tori can play Golightly, the crazy youtube life coach.

R507 Thrivin' Plus Size, you mean...

Goin' for subtle, R519.

--R507

Don't just live big, THRIVE big!

I weigh 320 pounds, and since I started using thrive, I have more energy than my skinny 110-pound cousin.

I would love to hear what CW's plan was if Nikole didn't step up that day. Tell all SW's friends/family that she took the kids and left after he told her that he wanted a separation? Was he going to use her phone and make calls from different places to look like she was on the move? Did he mean for her handbag to be found on the counter and say that she just left it or did he plan to hide it but Nicole showed up? That she walked out with her kids, leaving the car? Was he going to drive the car somewhere and leave it? What was he thinking when he called the kids school and the realtor THE SAME DAY that his family 'disappeared' - no one was gonna question that? What was this guys plan? Please let some reporter or profiler get ahold of him and get him to talk.

R522, me too.

Maybe he was going to ransack the house and hope that police guessed it was a home invasion, and the invaders abducted his family. That would result in lots of sympathy for him...but who would want to enter/stay in a relationship with him when his wife was alive out there somewhere and likely fighting to return home.

Maybe he was going to say that she ran off without warning and took the kids. When he was interviewed by the media, he mentioned that they'd had a recent argument. No one would EVER believe that, though, because SW lived her family life way too openly to have any secrets, and there was little chance she'd have left her seemingly perfect home and life behind.

Anyway, the neighbor's surveillance videos would have blown both of those theories out of the water.

R523, Shanann had tons of secrets.

And you know this how, R524?

Shanann had a talent for finding incredibly stupidmen: her father (nice, but practically illiterate), her brother (despite being of Polish and Italian New Jersey origins) who appears to be the victim of tragic Appalachian in-breeding, Chris Watts, who falls in love immediately with the first woman to let him do anal, and who kills his fucking wife and kids to be with her...…

Shanann should have resigned herself to being a hard-working single mother.

R525, have you been following along? Just because someone plasters their social media with photos and stories doesn’t mean it’s their true life. Her secrets: she was broke and spending, her husband was cheating, she had a shady past (her brother, too), nobody knows how she bought a huge mansion on a retail manager’s salary, there were bins of prescriptions in her basement...

R526, she had a talent for finding useful idiots.

Every single person in her life was useful to her. Every last one.

Also, SW's autopsy detected benzos.

[quote]Shanann should have resigned herself to being a hard-working single mother.

As if SW was ever going to give up on her little (but expensive) patch of suburban American Dream out in Colorado. Single, impoverished mom of 3 kids possibly entering yet another bankruptcy with now soon-to-be ex CW, no more cavernous house, no more Lexus, possibly medium to very low childcare payments from CW, having herself to go find full time clerical work, worry about health care for herself and sickly kids, etc etc.

SW was desperate to make her marriage to CW work - to the point of enduring significant stress over its impending collapse.

Something had to give.

I was reading about OCD last week, for work, and I thought a lot about this case, because Shanann Watts was so proud of her OCD. She bragged about being OCD and frequently told eople she was extremely well-organized because she was OCD. OCD, in her mind, meant over-achieving.

There is a school of thought that a subset of the people who have OCD are exactly like Shanann, with their OCD being symptomatic of a larger NArcississtic personality disorder. And when you think about it, that was what Shanann was. I know much is being made of Chris Watts being a narcissist (and from that, a murderer) but perhaps the more severe narcissist here was Shanann, whose personality disorders ultimately inspired murder as a form of control. There were TWO narcissists in that household and it was a fight to the death.

So what if she was r531? That doesn't make CW less of a piece of shit. And this NPD bullshit is thrown around like Chronic Fatigue in the 80s. I doubt that many people really have this disorder, some people are just shortsighted fucking cunts who don't think of the big picture.

The adenoids removal and tubes in ears is from mixing euro with indigenous causing a hybrid eardrum that cannot drain normally if water gets in there. Colds and flu systems cause major ear aches. Just wanted to put that out there if anyone was wondering. CW is some sort of mix of the two races apparently.

Some unhinged woman in a Facebook group reported that she made a mold of her vagina and sent it to CW, I presume as a Christmas gift.

There were no benzos found in Shanann, someone was confused reading the autopsy results, the numbers fell in the undetectable range. Her alcohol concentration was elevated.

Also, there wasn't any evidence of bins of meds in the basement, Chris answered there were extra meds in the basement because the police were questioning why Shanann would take off without the kids prescriptions. This was before he confessed to them being dead. I think if the police suspected Shanann was taking controlled substances they would have questioned her friends about it, they questioned all of them about her alcohol intake.

I think those Thrive conventions were an excuse to get drunk, no way could anyone tolerate all those annoying Thrivers without a large amount of alcohol.

What is the point of all these thrive conventions besides the partying aspect?

R536 I think it's a perk to keep the idiots on the hook and entice other people to join

"Look how much fun we're having! Thrive with us!"

I met someone at a holiday party here in Denver last week whose relatives lived on the same street as the Watts. According to him, the relatives thought Shanaan was a little big for her britches for someone who couldn't afford her HOA dues, but that Chris was a salt of the earth type who was always ready to lend a hand at fixing things and a doting dad. People there have quite a few barbecues and things so they all got to know each other pretty well. They didn't know of any particular problems in the marriage but didn't think the "screaming match" they had that was so widely reported meant anything except for the fact that they were married and had kids, meaning, all couples fight. The feeling they were left with was, "You never really know what is going on in somebody else's life."

All couples fight but screaming matches aren't normal in a happy relationship.

I think CW told Nicole he was part Cherokee, r533.

r533 made that up, someone has an obsession with Chris being part Native for some reason.

When does a new thread get started?

At 600 replies r542, so fill this up!

There were containers of medication in the basement. It's on the body cam video of the first dog search. The police officer took photos of it as well.

Yeah r544, but people are saying the meds were for the girls and whatever non narc meds SW took, not necessarily anything good. Kids with hover moms probably have tons of meds.

A few youtubers that do videos about everything CW are having D.R.A.M.A. It could get ugly.

Wanna expand on that r546?

I'm just waiting for an Oprah Special Interview with CW.

R547 our favorite life coach has talked to Shananns family and some youtubers are exposing her old videos about SW. There's talk of jealousy in the comments. I think it all started when NK got videos taken down.

R549, that quack has become the Rzueck mouthpiece. She "set the record straight" on the rumors about SW. I clicked off as soon as she said the crippling debt and subsequent bankruptcy were "medical-related."

What are they saying in the comments?

R527

We don't know what was in the Rubbermaid bins in the basement. It was probably an equal mix of hideous LuluRoe clothes + patterned leggings, Thrive crap bought to maintain the car allowances, and perhaps opioids stockpiled from Shanann's real and imagined ailments.

R535 ... alcohol and plates full of fried food. New Orleans was a bonanza of fattening food!

Where did the story of the prescriptions in the basement come from? I’ve read about them, but haven’t seen it. And I’d love to.

I know everyone loved that RHONJ quack, but I could never watch her.

This happens a lot on FB discussion groups about murder/missing people cases. There are always a few insane people who come in and make it about themselves. They usually ingratiate themselves with the remaining family members and try to become spokespeople. They hijack the group and try to control the narrative. Interesting phenomenon and now it’s half the reason I join the groups. These people always show up.

Anyway, in the cases where the family allows the crazy person in, I think it’s because they have something to hide, and the crazy is a distraction. Or the crazy person promises them something; free PR, deeper investigation, a psychic ability, MONEY.

We already know from the bankruptcy that most of the bills were for things like Nordstroms, Toys R Us and Sears, and furniture purchases. The family wants to rewrite Shanann's life, they definitely have something to hide and I would love to know about their own bankruptcy. I believe the whole family decided to grift the system with their bankruptcy filings.

I don't know who loves her r554, I can't stand her either and can't abide forty fucking minute youtube vids of someone just talking. Someone here is trying to make her happen like the word "fetch" and it's not happening, also like the word "fetch".

The yenta / Jersey / showgirl / life coach was fun for a hot minute. She’s making $ and she’s gained subscribers as a result of the murders. Somehow she managed to ingratiate herself with the Watts family, and was making plans to visit them in NC. She evidently got her hand slapped because now she’s determined to focus only on her life coaching “career” only. I am amazed how many people donate $ to this bitch.

I hate to give her the views, but if you want to see what a piece of work she is, watch her opening Christmas gifts from her fans.

The discovery files reveals that CW had promised SW (in text msg’s the weekend she was in Arizona) he would read a couples counseling book she had ordered. She informed him the book would arrived that Monday (the day she went missing) and he was to write her summary of it. That was the book police found in the trash, still in the shipping wrapper, unopened. He probably knew when he promised her all this, there would be no reading or summary written, and that she, much like the book would end up thrown away like trash. As Chappelle would say:

write her A summary*

What was the title of the book? "Your Wife Is Always Right"?

A large part of the debts that caused the bankruptcy had to be from her wall of shoes. It was truly a ridiculous, hideous extravagance for two people who basically didn't have two nickels to rub together.

R561 SW said in a video that the shoes were from her pre-Lupus days, which means she bought them when she worked for the rim shop in NC. She claimed she could no longer wear most of them due to her Lupus.

Wow...she wanted him to write her a summary of the book. The term that comes to mind harkens back to elementary school: "book report". LOL

Just another detail that had the potential to take his plan (or lack thereof) off-track. After the investigators analyzed her online activities, they'd ask him where the book was. "Uh, she must have taken the couples therapy book with her when she ran out on me."

Book!?!?! I don’t need no stinking book.

I hadn’t heard/read that she wanted him to write a summary of the book. Jeez. No wonder he wanted out of that relationship. Holy fuck.

R563, I’d love to read more of what you’ve gleaned from the discovery! It’s also interesting to see what has been left out. The Crimerocket guy has a whole list.

And this thread has been extremely fucky. It keeps reloading and I can’t comment sometimes. Can someone make a new one?

It's the whole site. Why won't Erna fix it? Mary!

Regarding his site, I don't know what's happened but since around three or four threads ago, I keep getting error messages that say stuff like "datalounge is not responding" or "A long-running script has ended." Do not know what the problem is. I HAVE noticed that when the thread starts out, it is not as bad as when it reaches about 300 or 400 posts. Is there a data allotment/partitioning issue on some server somewhere? Erna? Why won't you fix this?

R558, not sure where you are getting that information in the discovery docs, because I read them too and as far as I could tell, Shanann was really scared she had been way too much of a bitch and was trying to pedal back. She told her friends she was NOT going to require that he read it, because she knew that would be a cunty move. She wanted him to read it, so they could talk about it, and she herself listened to it (I wonder if she ever read a book in her life?). She would wait for him to initiate the conversation.

As to the drugs in the basement, Chris Watts referred to them, but so did the cops doing the initial walk-through in the basement, with flashlights (still do not understand why they don't just turn the lights on). They commented that Shanann was extremely organized and look here are the kids meds. Not sure if she had prescriptions for anything that could kill the kids, but I am personally of the belief that CW didn't smother those kids, but gave them drugs that would lose their detectability after 4 days in oil. Lipophilic compounds. Like opiates. He saw himself as humanely putting them to sleep, like pets.

Crime rocket does have a long list of missing evidence in this case. I am going to take a few minutes to make comparisons to Casey Anthony and Scott Peterson. CW was such a fucking idiot for not getting a lawyer. WTF?

And could someone please explain to me how the fuck the Jersey yenta got people to send her presents? What brain dead Frau would send that bitch from hell, presents?

On the other hands, they were pretty shitty presents.

The cops probably thought an abductor's fingerprints could be on the light switches and that's why they used their flashlights.

Nutter Golightly has cozied up to Rzucek family not the Watts family.

It’s totally insane R568. A “client” in London is sending her a pug puppy. It’s supposed to arrive in early January.

As if the yenta bitch couldn’t strap her tits down and head over to a local shelter to adopt one.

[quote]not sure where you are getting that information in the discovery docs, because I read them too and as far as I could tell, Shanann was really scared she had been way too much of a bitch and was trying to pedal back.

The part about the book she wanted him to do a summary on and read is from this documentary on the case, it goes through the documents that were released pretty thoroughly. Skip to 19.18 for the part about the book:

Though, when I say Shannan wanted him to write a summary of the book that is my sarcastic choice of wording it, her exacts words was that he would “read the book and write me a letter expressing”.

Expressing his feelings I guess?

Thanks for posting the video R572.

According to the video, he called the school at 8:26am on Monday morning to tell them the girls would not be attending that day. This was well in advance of anyone starting to really worry that they had not heard from Shanann.

What a dumbass.

Pretty much, R574. "I know nobody is missing my wife yet, but...don't expect her!"

It’s just like Harry from When Harry Met Sally said R574...“When you realize you want to spend the rest of your life with somebody, you want the rest of your life to start as soon as possible.”

I can’t say it enough, what a dumbass

Well as I understand it, Primrose school charges the $500 every Monday. So he wanted to make sure he didn't get billed for that week. It was all about the money. He called primrose and then started looking at hotel prices for him and Nikki to go away for a weekend, cuz of course, THAT would go un-noticed.

Watch this at minute 12. If you want to see idiocy, this video sums it all up nicely.

Hey Chris, getting away with murder is worth $500! Even 1k!

And god, that house is perfectly hideous. It just is. Independent of Shanann's ridiculous taste and the garish colors, the design of the house, the interiors are just hideous. Thereis no architectural refinement, it looks positively institutional. No charm, no warmth. Just awful.

Oh man, I wasn’t expecting the camera to have caught this, but at 18.00 min into this documentary they zoom in on the video of CW carrying what looks like bodies covered in white sheets, 3 times to his car. No wonder he panicked when he saw the neighbors security video, you’d think he would have backed his truck far enough into the garage he never had to worry a nosy neighbor or security cam had caught a glimpse of those sheets. But his stupidity really knows no bounds.

R581, he only put Shanann in a sheet; the girls were in trash bags. He had one trash bag in his right hand when he was carrying the gas can. You can see that. But you can't see him carry Shanann, who, he apparently told the detectives, he loaded into the back seat of the truck, behind the driver. I have no idea why it took him so long to load his truck that morning. You would think he would have had it all ready to go when he got the truck and backed it into the driveway.

What really baffles me is this: he was apparently weighing his forthrightness with LE against the appearance of guilt. Why he did not realize it was all going south and time to get a decent attorney is beyond me. I am sure that even if he had been arrested and charged, he would have been able to get an attorney anxious to make a name for himself ----- a la Jose Baez ----- and would not have been stuck with those shit-for-brains public defenders.

So was his "I want to be seen as a good boy" need so extreme that he allowed himself to be hanged by his guilt?

R582, he plead guilty to stop the investigation of Nichol Kessinger.

Well that is a theory I have always entertained, R583. But if so, what was he protecting her from? Did she mastermind this whole thing?

That video at R581 is the best account I've seen yet, and it appears to have been created by an amateur based on materials from Facebook and the dump.

Is Chris' father an idiot? When Chris confesses to him, he merely accepts it all. No questioning the truth of it all. Bizarre.

I'm sure the trial wouldn't have been televised, but if it had been than Chris really did us a disservice by pleading guilty.

So so true, R587. Why NK's appearance alone, as the other woman who stole CW's affections..... why it would have been pure dramatic gold.

Not to mention all the scandalous reveals about CW and NK's sex life, r588.

When CW is in profile his jaw looks too small for his face. Really bothers me.

CW should be well on his way to getting the prison vacant stare and pasty face look.

I also think indisputable proof of him killing the girls would come forward and he for sure doesn't want to talk about that and have all the details, like him using his booted foot to jam the one's head down, come out and have everyone know.

The only time he really genuinely cried during the interrogation was when he realized people at his workplace would know what he had done. His reputation and image was worth crying over, his family not so much. The diagnosis of sociopathic narcissist sounds about right.

Chris wasn’t covering for NK.

I’ve examined this case 12 different ways from Sunday. The woman had nothing to do with the murders. Did she manipulate him into wanting to leave his family? I think so. However, she wasn’t in on this. Most people are not trying to go to prison. And honestly, the majority of people out there just aren’t capable of something like this. Even fucked up people who do all sorts of immoral or illegal shit cannot do something like this. This is EXTREMELY RARE behavior.

The cops were on it. They were out for blood, and they actually did an outstanding job here. Had she been in on it, she would have been behind bars right now.

Chris is so astoundingly stupid, he actually believed he would somehow get away with this.

It is almost impossible to get away with murder nowadays. Any high profile crime, really. If law enforcement officials want you behind bars, they have access to all kinds of shit that you do not even know about, to get you.

You guys need to understand something right now: NOTHING IS PRIVATE ANYMORE. YOU ARE BEING CONSTANTLY SURVEILLED, 24/7.

Don’t believe me? Go out and commit a high profile crime. I PROMISE you, if you come under suspicion, you will be zeroed in on, and caught. Period, end of story.

You are 100% right, R594.

That doc at r581 is great, thanks for posting it. It's more linear and cohesive, I can't watch that fucking annoying yenta or anyone else talk about it or watch 8 hours of footage and try to parse through it, this has the story succinctly told. I could do without the maudlin piano music but whatever. That Nicole Atkinson really meddled a lot and go the ball rolling quickly, dumb CW never had a chance.

Then how the fuck did Casey Anthony get away with it r594. That case wasn’t that long ago.

R597, she didn’t get away with it. What her legal representation was able to do, was to force a jury of her peers, to rule “Not guilty”, based upon parameters set forth within the case.

Casey Anthony was smart for taking her chances with a trial. Just like in the case of George Zimmerman.

Take some time to review exactly how Michael Cohen, Trump’s former attorney, got busted. The technology and data that was accessible to Mueller and his team, is mind blowing.

Again: NOTHING IS PRIVATE.

The only way to get away with high level criminal activity is to completely go off the grid. And even then, almost impossible.

[quote]she didn’t get away with it. What her legal representation was able to do, was to force a jury of her peers, to rule “Not guilty”, based upon parameters set forth within the case.

In other words, to put it in plain English, she got away with it.

There was enough circumstantial evidence to prosecute Casey Anthony, with NK already in witness protection, there probably wasn’t enough/any circumstantial evidence she was connected to the murders or any planning of the crime. That’s the only reasonable conclusion one could draw, in my opinion.