British Royal Family Part 8: general gossip and information

A fresh litter box to claw around in when Part 7 fills up.

I sat next but one to princess margaret at a very formal dinner and she had a cigarette between each course. She also had her own tumbler for wine in a gold filigree holder gorgeous

Interesting, R2.

"THE" Princess Margaret, don't you know?

R2 - What, no taster?

Shouldn't we be finishing up Part 7 before posting here?

Yes please, and thanks for the reminder R6!

Any news about the lovely Princess Alexandra?

Part 7 is grayed out... not long for this world?

That's unfortunate. I think the DT talk might have pissed someone off, I don't know. I am set to Asbestos Eyeballs and don't see it greyed out. I hope we didn't awaken any beasties!

Meghan. I like the dress and her hair pushed back

Yes I agree she looks very nice here. Bump clutching though. Why? Why? Why?

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Put your god damn hands down Missy! It ruins, an otherwise good look. They are so few and far between.

Ah, this is the kind of thing Meghan lives for - the British Fashion Awards! How ironic, eh, given her reluctance to wear very much of it? This will restore her juices - it's the kind of thing she figured she'd be doing all the time.

I do like the dress and the hair, but the bump cradling is just OTT.

If, as they claim, she got pregnant in July, she should be only a bit over five months along. I might start believing the in vitro twin stories looking at that bump.

Meghan is listed on the top ten Time magazine candidates for Times Person of the Year!

R16 - by TIME or by others?

r13 Perfect term for it. She nearly had it tonight, then she had to get EXTRA!

She looks so much better with the extra weight. Kate did too. When will ladies learn, after a certain age..its ass or face. Clothes can fix the ass, but everyone sees your face.

r16 They clearly picked her for reasons. How is a chick who is famous for who she married a candidate? Makes no darn sense. She didn't even make the readers top ten.

My guess is Planet Earth.

Good lord, that dress is a wrap dress and the split is right up the front. We almost get treated to her knickers. Ick.

R22, oh dear ...

The thing is, the assymetrical top of the dress looks pretty nice on her boxy body.

But sadly she never fails to mess it up.

And we all know she's preggers, so she might as well think about stopping to cradle her bump incessantly.

R23 - I must agree. This is the same overweening famewhore calling attention to herself that we have all grown to know and love.

I'm sure the BRF is vomiting at the sight.

The question is, will the DM back off for awhile now to accommodate the Return of Meghan?

Or will they offset this as they usually do with more negative stories later in the week. Any bets?

Is the double handed bump cradling in case it slips?

Is she really due only in April?

My cousin's partner has got exactly the same body, speaking of size and frame. Like Meggers, she's pregnant for the first time. When it comes to size, her bump looks exactly like Meggers'.

The difference is: She's due at around Valentine's day.

Lol r25.

She looks sleek and pretty here. Makeup is on point. Didn't Diana wear a one shouldered black dress at one point, during her time in the spotlight?

I like the bangles and matching gold strappy shoes.

And the black dress is by her wedding dress designer as well. Just a walking advert for Givenchy isn't she? Is it just me, or does the bump look weird in the instagram thingie?

I say YASSSSSS to that dress.

She is not going to be queen, she might as well be fabulous.

Before the shouts of frau and sugar begin, I'll say I don't always like Meghan's fashion choices, but I'm putting this one in the Wins column.

I think she’s further along than people have assumed and will deliver February range.

The stomach holding is nuts. I live in the most knocked up, giant family state in the US and the only times I can recall bump cradling is towards the end, when the woman is sitting - usually exhausted looking and leaning back.... almost like the female version of Al Bundy and his pants in front of the TV. I’ve never seen a pregnant woman do it at the level she does.

Or she's carrying twins.

Agreed, everyone. I can't believe she posed cradling the bump from both directions (the "over-under clutch," as R13 so pithily puts it), as though she were Demi Moore in the 1991 Vanity Fair. The word that always comes to mind when I read about her, and that I find myself returning to repeatedly in posts here on DL, is [italic]affected.[/italic]. Assumed or displayed artificially; put on for effect; artificial, stilted, ‘got up’: That's our Meghan!

Pregnant celebrities, and non celebrity expectant mothers, cradle their bumps all the time when out in public

R33, you already said so in the other thread.

Which doesn't change the fact it's downright ridiculous.

R33, it might please you to know that hyphens and periods exist, and are available to you to use here on DL.

R34 Oh, I agree. But seeing as I’ve never been pregnant, maybe it makes one feel less awkward or it’s a comfort thing?

Yes, she looks a lot more pregnant than she reportedly is. I suspect she is either further along or she is having (IVF) twins

Well, her hair is combed. And the bun in back is neat.

That challenges the posters who claimed that because of her hair type, she couldn't have a neat hair look. Ha!

That video, though, shows she loves flashing the audience, doesn't she?

I wonder what's the next planned "wardrobe malfunction" ?

Meghan and her very wobbly moonbump

The cradling and the thigh high split - she could have fixed those two things and it would have been fine. But, bitch that I am, I hope she never gets her shit together.

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Meghan Markle's natural freckles inspire woman to get faux freckle tattoos

Yes, R41, I saw that.

For a woman of 37 to do that - and news flash - NO FEMINIST WOULD EVER, EVER, EVER DO THAT!

I know this is her first pregnancy, but she should still know it’s not necessary to constantly hold her belly. It’s not going to fall off.

[quote] I can't believe she posed cradling the bump from both directions (the "over-under clutch," as [R13] so pithily puts it), as though she were Demi Moore in the 1991 Vanity Fair. The word that always comes to mind when I read about her, and that I find myself returning to repeatedly in posts here on DL, is affected.

Demi Moore? probably that was a moonbump too since we know both Willis and Moore are gay

Quoth the raven: "Demi Moore".

R47 made me laugh.

Me too...

R43 is the feminist police: revoking bitches feminist card for giggling.

Infraction of feminist code 179, section 5b

What an idiot. So full of herself. No dignity.

Is that purple nail polish on Megs?

Waiting for the pic to appear of the snarky little shit sneakily sticking a pin in her belly while holding back a laugh as he covers his mouth.

R53 Gary!

Meghan is out tonight and wouldn't you know it, the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge have two events tomorrow.

I secretly suspect the BRF are providing grist for the mill.

She is walking a strange line between "Royalty" and "Special Celebrity Guest! Tonight on The Love Boat!"

It’s definitely the most put-together she’s ever looked but the belly clutching while almost flashing her undercarriage is very off putting. You can’t play both Mother Mary and Mary Magdalen at the same time.

The conspiracy theorist in me says the BRF is loving the drama! They havent been this talked about since Di. This Kate vs Meghan has refreshed everyone

I thought nail polish was verboten? That minx!!!!

R57 The enduring relevance of Freud's Madonna-Whore Complex. Women can be both madonna and whore in their body and mind, but society says, "Bitch, please! Stop that shit. You gotta pick one."

I dunno, I like her look in this, very polished. But like r56 I see her and keep wondering how this is all going to end up down the road. Will she end up another Sophie Wessex, or Wendi Deng? One or the other, I see no middle road here.

Oooh she's a tough one. I agree about the nail polish- I mean it's not really a big deal but in a season where you've been criticised for everything, it would have been just easier to follow the diktat on nude polish. But noooo. I like her. If she goes down, she's taking everyone down with her!

R58. True, true

R56 I think that's probably a good thing for someone in her position. Harry won't be king and she won't be queen. They don't need to be as stiff and proper and formal as Will and Kate. Harry needs an identity other than former spare. International celebrity is what they're both trained for.

R58 I was thinking the BRF was stoking this rivalry to light a fire under Kate and Wills asses. They had a rep for avoiding work. They've been working more.

I still mostly think it's Fergie and Andrew feeding stuff to the press for money and the hopes that the public will fall in love with their girls.

Commenters on more mainstream sites (i.e., not the DM) are making fun of her cradling.

If the Yorks started this to help their girls, nobody sent Beatrice the memo. Eugenie got her big wedding; televised and with a carriage ride to boot. However, Beatrice and this baby momma drama won't win public adoration.

But Meghan covers a multitude of sins. Nobody is even talking about Beatrice's love triangle.

I think Harry and Meghan will be sort of like Brangelina in their peak—at least for the first few years. Lots of traveling, lots of events, lots of Hollywood parties, and highly visible charity work. They might even be one of the first European Royals to adopt.

When does she go live in the frog pond?

[quote] It's such a pleasure to be here, celebrating British fashion and British designers, in my new home in the UK.

So why don't you actually wear British designers in your new home, the UK?

r67 they need to avoid being too 'Hollywood'. That would be their undoing. She's already taking hits for being too 'in' with the celebrity crowd. Lots of visible charity work yes, hanging with Angelina, Oprah and the Clooneys, no.

R67- You took the words from my mouth. The look overall is very La Jolie and they ARE going to model themselves on the Brange. I gotta say this makes me miss Angie before she went full mental on the plane. She really owned the red carpet and perhaps because she's a better actress than Meghan or a little crazier- she seems very 'natural' when she's interacting with the poors. Not affected.

Does Pa Markle ever shut up? Now he's talking to his pals at TMZ again. Nothing new here, same old same old.

R62 Meghan will not go gentle into that good night.

She's gonna go supernova, create a black hole, and drag all her enemies with her.

The Yorks better watch out.

The Yorks? I think if Meghan and Harry implode, there's a chance they take Wills and George and Kate and their futures down with them too. Good luck batting the racism charges.

She looks retarded at r37.

Is she retarded?!

Make that r41.

R72 I don't expect that old mess to shut up. A lot of white men his age never shut up. He's like Grandpa Simpson, Trump or my Father in Law. What I wonder is why are media outlets bothering to pay him for interviews. He hasn't said anything new and clearly doesn't know anything.

Hardly likely R74. Kate has been the biggest beneficiary of Meghan's addition to the royal family. Kate is now grace, elegance and royalty personified. If Meghan implodes I think it would solidify Will and Kate's position as a safe pair of hands.

Harry is sort of fading away. I wonder if he counted on becoming invisible?

She's not Royal, regardless of being given the title of princess. I think the Queen has just given up and said 'F***K It" .

Kate isn't Royal either, but she comes from privilege. so she seems to know not t o be too gleeful, which I think is one of Megyn's flaws...just a demure smile and a bit of reticence...she can still be touchy feely with the pubic.. ,Diana was. I do wish her the best though, it would be nice to see a person of color become successful poised royal. Princess Angela of Liechtenstein, is a woman of color, Panama,,,,she has a really cute son and it seems she has been accepted by the family....ski trips with her royal sister in-law etc. But again she wasn't an actress or in entertainment. Megyn should befriend her if possible....

Where is Harry? Has he returned from his trip from Africa? If so, did he accompany Meghan to the Fashion Awards show? (Not that she needs him; he'd just get in the way.)

After seeing her latest pics, I suspect she was a pregnant bride. It was a Royal shotgun wedding, of sorts.

She looks 10 months pregnant.

My sister was similar height and fitness, first baby at age 41. She barely had a bump her entire pregnancy. Had a perfect 7 lb baby.

Maybe Meggers is having twins?

In Megs' case, cradling her bump is a means of garnering sympathy from the hostile. Also a fuck you to her detractors. She's an actress on a stage playing a role, using gestures to greatest advantage.

The bookies seem to think she's having twins.

r61

meghan will NEVER be a sophie wessex. unfortunately...

R64 And now Harry's identity is dumb(arton) idiot married to an attention whore .

Christ, stop the presses. She actually looked decent for once. A cross between (ahem) Carolyn Bessette and JLo. The scraped back hair, minimal grecian column dress, exfoliated, loofahed, glistening skin. Like she spent some time on herself. It won't last, of course. But the attempt is acknowledged and approved.

She acts so inelegant and over-the-top, the exact opposite of how a royal lady should be. Her desperation makes me fell almost sorry for her. Almost. Because even the least intelligent person can learn if they want to.

Agreed, R89. The complete absence of poise is almost as astonishing as the complete absence of style.

That's what's so galling. At her age and with her acting background, she should easily be able to tone it down and pretend to be gracious. Yet, she always looks like a kid in a candy shop gleefully lapping up the attention. It's as if she cannot help herself.

I know why she's looking marginally better. It's the lack of any.....DANGLING TENDRILS!!! Finally. Our mission has been fulfilled. And people say trolls cant impact anything. It's so rewarding to have created 'measurable impact'!!!!!!

Laughing pretty hard at R92!

I feel a bit sad for Meghan. She seems to really buy into the attention she is receiving. She seems to believe it is real. Even Diana, for all her faults, understood that fame was fickle and this type of attention is empty.

R94 you are correct, it's sad but it took Diana a lot of years to figure this out. And when she did, is the time she started pursuing the fantasy of being 'just an ordinary woman in love' with Hasnat Khan, which was also sadly deluded. She was never going to have a normal life. Meghan might be slightly delusional than Di and having seen more of life in showbiz, she might already have a sense of the fickleness of fame but has decided to play this gig for all its worth till she can, self consciousness be damned!

Gotta say, this bitch makes me miss Jolie. Now THAT is megalomania done with just the right hint of crazy and star power. This one is amateur hour.

Having read all your thoughtful meditations on fame and the the sense of tragedy woven into the structure of the BRF (besides the sick privileges of course!) I'm SO excited to watch the Diana years in The Crown. What a spectacular life!

THIS is the necklace MM ought to be wearing:

Who will Harry become? He's gone from bad boy to army bloke to dutiful prince with a rascal side, to devoted boyfriend/husband. What's next? Devoted dad? As long as he doesn't turn into Andrew.

If she does go down, she will not take anybody with her - well, the expenses payable prospects of her dodgy relations, but nobody standing on the balcony before she got there. There's a key difference between her and Diana. People loved Diana. They thought, on balance, Diana got screwed over (and that's despite considerable bad behaviour on Diana's part during the proceedings). So they sided with Diana. Meagain doesn't have that hold. Her behaviour isn't endearing.

R98... I don't know who Harry becomes. It may not be very good. He's so dim and will be, I expect, so embittered... he either does become Andrew or he finds a really lovely second wife and becomes the picture of contentment. I have no clue.

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Odd colored shoes and clutch for that dress. Not the first time she's mixed green shades with mixed results.

Kate is bringing the 1960s back with her matching shoes and bag.

MM now looks like she has had her hair melted and formed like a layer of felt.

She'd look a lot better with a little kink allowed to naturalize her featureless, bland mocha-lite mask.

Spectacular necklace ar r102...

R33 - Odd , Kate Middleton didn't, the Queen didn't, and most of the professional women I know who worked throughout their pregnancies (I mean, women with real jobs, not women who were driven by limo to spend an hour or a day having their photos taken doing Good Works or showing up in gowns at fashion awards shows) didn't as they taught classes, went to faculty meetings, etc.

She's just an unreconstructed narcissist and no matter what event she attends, it always ends up being about her, only right now, her and her bump.

She might have the grace at an event like this to keep her hands down so the audience can actually focus on the awardee rather than Meghan silently screaming LOOK AT ME I'M PREGNANT I'M PREGNANT I'M DUCHESS MEGHAN AND I'M PREGNANT!

She is, at heart, coarse, graceless, self-absorbed, totally insincere, and I'm sure the entire BRF spotted this immediately and loathes the sight of her.

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Kate again. Pregnant women touching their belly is pretty normal.

I so want MM's abdomen to reenact that wonderful stomach-bursting scene in Alien.

Touching, perhaps. Propping an arm on top, perhaps. Cradling it on stage, while the spotlight is on her, what R106 said.

What R110 said.

dresses posted by r101 and r102 are both very beautiful but she should have never worn those emerald with the dress in 102. the clash is awful. ruined what could have been a great look...

If the bookies were still accepting bets, I'd put money on Meghan having twins: a one-and-done babymaking deal. She's 37, so those eggs aren't getting any fresher, and she isn't the type to risk her figure with multiple pregnancies. Boy/girl or boy/boy twins, and then she can spend the rest of her life promoting the fuck out of herself and her offspring.

R113 Ladbrokes Australia are still accepting bets on twins. Currently, their odds are 11/1.

Well, now I know what to do with my Christmas bonus. :)

R11’s photograph [italic]royally[/italic] gives me the SHITS! I [italic]detest[/italic] and [italic]loathe[/italic] women who clutch their pregnant bellies when knocked up. We [italic]KNOW[/italic] that you are ‘with child’ and ‘blessed’. I mean, [italic]HELLO[/italic], we can see the cankles, the burgeoning gut, the acne, and the constipated look on your face. Just fuck off, already.

Or [italic]isn’t[/italic] it? Hmmm...

That was meant for R44. Sorry, multitasking, watching Dennis on RHOA.

Yes, all the compulsive clutching would make sense if it’s a fake belly.

But she really does have the bloated, swollen pregnancy look to her.

It’s a mystery.

William and Kate visiting a children’s hospital today

Kate wore the dark green gown and emeralds that evening to the BAFTAS, of which William is patron, when the rest of the women attending were being "asked" to wear black at the height of the #metoo furore. She was pregnant at the time, and in response chose something muted as, unlike Ms Markle, she understands the divisions between royal and political. The dress straddles celebratory and respectful of the issues without bowing to them, and dressed it up with the emeralds. I rather liked her solution.

As for today's look, perhaps Kate is more interested in calling attention to the children than her outfit. I wonder if, rather maliciously but cleverly, the more Meghan glams it up, the more Kate glams it down unless a state banquet or event requires her to do so.

I think MeAgain is playing right into Kate's Home Counties English Girl's hands.

Kate

How nice that Kate's NOT wearing putrid green.

R106 - you hit the nail on the head - it’s about [italic]her[/italic], and by extension, [italic]her[/italic] bump. Once that [italic]bump[/italic] becomes a separate, non-short wearing entity, I wonder how a narcissist, such as Megs, will cope in vying for attention? She [bold]IS[/bold] such a narcissist.

Yes, but R107 and R108, it doesn’t look forced and affected, as when Megs does it. [italic]Everything[/italic] Megs does seems so contrived.

Lainey thinks the bump cradling is an FU to the haters

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R127 To be fair, a charity and fashion event are two different things. At a fashion event, you want people to look at you. That’s the whole point.

[quote]Also a fuck you to her detractors.

R126 Called by R84

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Nutmeg wanted to have her "Diana Moment". Her appearance reminds me of Diana's slicked back hair and sexy dress moment at a New York fashion event years ago. Anyone remember?

If her incessant baby bump cradling is a middle finger to her haters, she's got more problems than we even realize. I guess she does READ what people are saying about her. How many lies has she told?

Sparkle still thinks she's in Hollywood. A photo booth session? Really?

The crowd should have booed her when she said she was here to celebrate "British fashion". WTF? Someone should have yelled out: " Why the the hell don't you wear British designers then, you hypocrite?"

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Her hair is neat. The black dress is a bit predictable and generic but at least it fits.

She really has to ditch the high slit, the dark nail varnish and the creepy tummy holding.

R133 - Nailed it - she gets a look and a fit right, but just HAS to raise the Look At Me quotient. Her joy at being the centre of attention is palpable.

I believe Diana attended that NY fashion event with the slicked back hair after her divorce. And, she looked awful in the slicked back hair. It suits Meghan's face but it looked ridiculous on Diana, whose large nose it threw into prominence, and the nightgown dress didn't do her her any favours, either. I thought it was dark blue. The one shouldered black dress - was that also worn with slicked back hair? I thought that was worn with her more traditional hair. I might be confusing two NY events. It seems sooooo long ago.

What happened to the Pa Markle Stirring thread?

"Hee hee, I played Harry like a violin and got myself preggers. Tee hee hee."

Bottom line: she looks H'wood celeb, not royal. And therein lies the problem. This is her real metier.

i think diana looks fabulous with slicked back hair

Just my opinion - she's not pregnant - someone else is carrying that baby(ies) - her bump is a prosthetic

R138 - That was a fashion shoot - "Vogue" maybe and Patrick Demarchalier?

I still don't like Diana with the slicked back hair but it does look better here staged than it did in that dark blue nightgown dress.

R130 - Which is why we love them.

What else would you expect? Giant headlines about "Meghan Stuns In . . ." then next day, "Caring Kate . . . "

It's how they work it.

Kate has been named patron of the children's hospital she visited.

R139 - Right, and her husband doesn't notice every night when they get undressed and get into bed? Or he knows and he's just delighted to be colluding in this deception of the entire monarchy, all his relatives, and the British public - nay, the world's?

Is this a message for Nutmeg critics on DL and elsewhere?

the fake bump/pregnancy comments are the absolute worst and completely derail an otherwise informative thread. those commenters reflect poorly on the quality of people here.

R142 - Yes, noticed that, in advance of Meghan announcing HER patronages early in the New Year.

I'm sure Meghan would have killed for this oh so appealing high profile one.

But it went the way of that 20-room "apartment" in Kensington Palace, the grand country home in a more delightful spot than a dull suburb a half hour outside London, and a spot on the same balcony as the Three Queens on Remembrance Day.

R144 - Do let's remind her of it the next time she steps out in a lambskin skirt and a $2,000 leather bag.

R134, this bears repeating:

[quote]Her joy at being the centre of attention is palpable.

It's the reason Meghan inspires such visceral dislike. She's so blatantly, shamelessly self-obsessed. She hasn't demonstrated a shred of humility or gratitude in the face of her good fortune. Rather, she seems like the sort of person who is truly convinced of her own superiority. She believes that everything she now has ― the upper-class status, the historic homes, the jewels, the servants, the beautiful clothes (theoretically, if she knew how to select them), the global fame and influence ― is simply owed to her.

'it's cool to be kind'???? So Icky! Is it so hard to stay on message? Make a speech about FASHION and/or attitude maybe and NOT to address your fashion choices. This is like something SJP would say in a shitty SATC episode. Why is she always so TED-talky in her style?

^^^sorry I meant and NOT to address your detractors and critics (not "fashion choices")

The sexy Sparkle Sashay.

R148 - LOL. I rather think the grand home bust brought her up short. I doubt that that inelegant, five-BR cottage in a dull market town with a large homeless population as her "home base" wasn't quite what she envisioned whilst out glamping in Botswana with Harry and dreaming of her future with him.

"I'm American. I hug to the point of cutting off circulation".

R149 - "Why is she always so TED-talky in her style?"

Because she's a completely manufactured person with no real passions except for what gets her the most attention and approval from the world. It's all constructed from slogans and trends. She's been reflecting what she thinks works for so long that she doesn't know how to stop. She lost the capacity for authenticity long ago - she doesn't know what it looks like any longer, if she ever knew.

I know my sister did it when she went out because as she got more advanced in her pregnancy the baby would start kicking and there was this odd moving bump on her belly so she'd put her hand there to sort of calm the baby or push the foot or the elbow or WTFever it was down.

I got crucified on Celebitchy (I know I know. I just wandered over there) once for saying I didnt like MM's oratory skills because I find it a little too exuberant, regardless of the subject of the speech and therefore a little too actressy. I also said I preferred Her Majesty's slightly dry and clipped way of articulating herself because I found it more befitting a member of royalty. HM obviously has more experience and training with public speaking but I also thought William and Diana too had the quality of getting to the heart of the speech or answer, without much ado.

That was the end of my posting career on Celebitchy. I was accused of being racist, of talking in dog-whistles, of being sexist against actresses and of projecting my own "expectations that women be silent spectators to the march of history." I'm telling you this woman has the weirdest fans.

R128 - to be fair, a royal should make EVERY event they attend about the PEOPLE/CHARITY/CAUSE etc...

Nutmeg even touches her tummy when she gave out the award. It's not about HER and her bump but she made it that way. The evening was about fashion and giving awards.

This is so bloody cringe worthy it had to be posted again.

This is the OLD Meghan the actress. Posing like she's on the the red carpet for the old Fashion Police show. It's just NOT what a royal should do.

R156 - Well, CB and Kaiser are Meghan Frau Central. In fact, it's surprising your post was even posted: there's a site called "banned from celebitchy" composed of posters who had their arses banned by Kaiser for comments that the prevailing narrative - one of which is that Meghan is the greatest thing ever to set foot on Britain's shores.

Kaiser these days lets a few negative posts up to keep the place honest, but the Meghan threads are dominated by a few posters who worship her, just as the Kate threads used to be dominated by that same cabal who hater Kate's guts for outranking Meghan no matter what Meghan does or Kate doesn't do.

That said, the anti-Kate cabal is having a harder time these days as with her childbearing over, Kate steps out more, announces more patronage, and seems, as even Kaiser is forced to admit, happier and more confident and relaxed in her role than ever before.

*for comments that RUN AGAINST the prevailing narrative.

R159

This DOES link to the European Royals Discussion thread - it appears that the demure look Kate was sporting today is on trend or being identified as the Right Thing for Those Serious About Being Royal, as Queen Letizia of Spain stepped out today (courtesy of the DM, and I doubt accidentally, as they don't cover Letizia much) in . . . an updated 1950s shirtwaist dress, checked print, midi-length, for a visit to a charity. Very much more in the Kate mode than the Meghan mode.

A princess must NOT mingle with "show people!"

Kate is lovely and has settled into being a demure queen consort in waiting.

I love Meghan. When she's fabulous, it's golden and when she fucks up, it's entertaining as all hell.

Letizia is THA BOMB. I believe she has done quite well to keep her fashion choices within the budget range while still aiming for iconic. Is that also the perception in Spain? Or was she also treated like Markle, in the beginning?

R162 - Well, we know how things went with Diana and the BRF, don't we?

And, as we all know, Diana was at an official event - a state dinner at the Reagan White House. Diana didn't do the guest list, Nancy Reagan did, and we know where Nancy and Ron started out, don't we?

That's Diana for you - same problem; it's not the links between the UK and America that really interested her, but dancing with John Travolta.

You've pretty much proved my point.

R164 - Perhaps a poster from Spain can fill you in on that more accurately. The monarchy in Spain has taken some serious knocks in the last decade - divorces of the elder Infanta in what everyone more or less knew was a lavender marriage, corruption convictions for the other son in law, which the younger daughter barely escaped being convicted for - Juan Carlos abdicated, and it has been left to Felipe and Letizia and their two attractive daughters to shore up an institutions increasingly criticised in Spain. I doubt Letizia would have been anyone first choice in the Spanish court, but having forced Felipe to give up what I believe was a Scandinavian model he was deeply in love with, he put his foot down with Letizia and said he'd marry her or no one. So they had to give way. I believe she is viewed as cold, haughty, and controlling, but can't swear to it. And Felipe is no Charles - he works as little as he has to.

That's about what I can glean. Perhaps a Spanish contributor can correct or add to that.

That affected bump-cradling does bring to mind the Jolie leg.

Felipe sure isn’t Charles, R166, - he’s a hottie.

Does anyone know if there were any truth to the rumours of a frisson between Harry and the DOC? This is before he got married to Meghan of course. Kate, the smart girl that she is, is such a cipher that no one quite knows her opinions or thoughts but did the rumours arise because of Harry? Or because of chummy looking pictures at events? I remember bizarre rumours of Andrew (!!!!!) and Diana back in the day because of some harmless pictures of Di and Andy laughing or Di brushing off lint from his collar. For all we know, it could be her messing with the photogs. Unbelievably, there were also stray rumours of Margaret and Phil back in the day (yowza!). Frankly of all the rumours, THAT is one I can get behind simply because both parties were big enough cunts to screw HM over like that.

^^ was any truth***

DOC= Kate

R166, I'm not a Spaniard, but I lived in Madrid for many years, and I love to catch glimpses of the infantas in the news. They are absolutely lovely children: modest, poised, and well-mannered. Whatever one thinks of Felipe and Letizia, they are doing a wonderful job raising their daughters.

I predict that George, Charlotte, and Louis will be similarly quiet and dignified as they enter their teens, but I shudder to think of the effect that Meghan's narcissistic and fame-obsessed personality will have on poor Baby Sussex.

[quote] Who will Harry become?

I think he's the next Princess Margaret.

Second in line, always second.

Attracted to the glamor, rather than the work of the RF.

Rapidly losing his looks as that baldness is increasing rapidly.

Stories surfacing of his less than charm when he doesn't get his way.

Choosing a marriage partner who lends the glamor, but not stability.

I don't know about his alcohol consumption, but lots of other factors show similarities to the Queen's little sister.

I wonder if the Queen sees this?

I wonder if the Queen is secretly a cunt? We've always heard stories of how different she was from Margo, but could these have been airbrushed histories to serve the monarch and suit her image as Head of Church?

R174 - The Queen is NOT a cunt. She's been around for over 90 years. You think stories wouldn't have come out already if she was a cunt? Now, her sister Margaret was a big cunt.

Why has there been no announcement as to when the baby is due ? We got a birth month with all of William and Kate's three kids about a month after the pregnancy announcement . Either they forgot about that ( not very likely ) or Meghan wants the attention that comes from months of speculations .

She's supposed to be due in April which I don't believe.

My cousin's partner is with child. Body-wise, she looks A LOT like Meggers as she's got the same size as well as the same boxy torso. Her bump is visible, but not THAT MUCH visible.

She's due at around Valentine's day.

That's mostly correct r166. I do think that Felipe takes his job as monarch fairly seriously though. Not sure why you think he's workshy; the Spaniards are as into the royals-as-charity-patrons as the British are. They function mostly as non-political Head of State and what that entails.

There was talk on other boards that MM's appearance last night wasn't featured at all on any of the royal social media accounts, not for BP, KP or CH. Supposedly this was seen as unusual, because even some private and unofficial events and appearances are featured there, esp if they garner much press attention.

KP did get around to posting some photos of it this morning, or so I've read. I wonder what the lack of soc media coverage means here? It was a major attention-getting appearance by a senior royal.

R179 - lately, any appearances by Harry and Meghan are not announced beforehand for some reason and are "unexpected surprises".

Are they worried about security? Are they short staffed? KP can't be bothered to put their appearances online? Does anyone care?

This Duchess knows how to dress appropriately for her role. Here is a summary of her outfit.

Having fun with the kids.

Getting down to their level.

Nutmeg, read carefully and learn.

Re: Letizia - from what I’ve been told, there really is a visceral hatred between her and Sofia. Sofia was born a princess and wanted Felipe to marry another royal or at least someone from the nobility/aristocracy. Letizia broke royal protocol herself several times early in the engagement, most notably holding her hand up to Felipe at a press conference in a “stop talking” way, and then proceeded to answer the question that had been addressed to him. Of course there’s also the now infamous video from last Easter. Yes, these ladies are not shy about how they feel about each other. It makes what Maria-Therea had to put up with from Josephine-Charlotte seem like gentle ribbing. Funny enough, both Juan Carlos and Felipe are firmly under the thumbs of their wives and tend to keep clear of their disputes. There was also reporting at the time the various scandals became public that Letizia was the source.

As far as Harry goes, if he ever realizes what he got himself into, I can see him being stubborn enough to not admit he made a mistake. He and Megs will carry on as a sort of 21st century Duke and Duchess of Windsor. Miserable in private, but all smiles and glamor in public. Becoming more “society types” vs royals as the years go by due to both Megs desire for the limelight, and Wills & Kate subtly yet firmly pushing them out of the royal inner circle. I def can see Harry inheriting the fondness for the booze from his Windsor forebears, with Megs deftly leaking stories about “Drunk Harry” to garner more sympathy, attention for herself. Regarding their children, I think the Sussex-ettes will make the Yorks and the Casiraghis look like models of decorum by comparison.

Even while posing for a photo, Sparkle cradles her baby bump with BOTH hands. Does she think the baby is going to drop out?

Is Harry and his family moving to Frogmore Cottage for the security of King to be William and his family? Harry has moved down to number 6 in line for the crown.. lot of questions.

Meghan meets the crowd at the fashion awards conflating her cradled belly with her Inflated sense of self.

"[I see] a lot of familiar faces, many of you I've known for quite a while and a lot of people I've been meeting this past year."

She's a name dropper without knowing what names she's dropping.

Kate has always been quite sporty. She's the one in the middle.

R178 - I think Felipe may have stepped up more as King than he did as Crown Prince, I think the laziness charge (which was levelled at Frederik of Denmark, as well) is linked more to his past. What I found interesting in Spain is that there are still laws on the books making criticism of the monarchy a jailable offense. I believe one of the Spanish magazines once published a cartoon showing Felipe and Letizia going at it while Felipe proudly boasting about doing his "work". I think the magazine or paper was sued for a fine? It's a dim memory.

Their two daughters do seem absolutely lovely.

Carole Middleton at the beach with Prince George when he was younger.

Bug Eyed Bea in New York with model Karlie Kloss Kushner.

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R177 - If you're speculation about the due date is correct, it will mean that the BRF will have to come up with another lie to offset the one they told in mid-October when they announced that Meghan had "just had a 12-week scan", which would have put conception in July.

If she has a normal weight baby in February, nearly three months ahead of schedule, it will suggest she was pregnant when they got married, which would fuel further speculation that even if he'd wanted out, Harry was cornered.

Frankly, my guess is more toward twins than earlier conception, because she really was barely showing when they got to Australia.

I wonder if she stops cradling long enough to eat or if Harry cuts up bits of roast chicken to drop into her mouth?

Damn it all - "If YOUR speculation is correct . . ."

R194

God, she acts like she is the only woman in the world that has been pregnant. It's either twins or she was pregnant before the marriage. Would make sense if the latter, would explain why Will wasn't sure about the marriage.

R197 - She looks a little big for expecting in April so I'm thinking she was pregnant at the wedding. They were engaged for about half a year, weren't they? Plenty of time to go off birth control and start the procreation process.

Hmmm.

All I am saying is that I don't believe she's due only in April.

Tbf, I think she told Haz before the wedding that she's preggers - then, saaaaaaaaaaaadly, lost the baby right after Haz had put the ring on her finger.

And I think she has been pregnant before but got rid of the fetus to save her 'career' (lol). This is perhaps why she got pregnant so fast after the wedding - women who were pregnant before (even if the pregnancy ended in a miscarriage or was terminated) get pregnant again much easier than those who never were pregnant before.

I don't think IVF was involved. She was much too haggard around the time of the wedding. IVF-related dosages of fertility hormones, however, usually leave you with a bloating face and body.

She is putting out Jolie-level crazy vibes in those fashion awards pics.

She looks utterly demented with the bump cradling and crazy eyes.

And her faux sincere speaking voice (along with the nonsensical gibberish she spouts) makes her seem like she’s a lunatic barely hanging on by a thread.

Creepy shit!

R201 I would love to hear Flower's version of that speech. The more I hear Jolie bandied about, the more I see so much of it on MM. Speaking of Jolie, she's been quiet. Getting work done? Or perhaps I just haven't been up on my gossip.

R200 you're absurd.

R201

ROFL! I totally agree with you!!! Like a b movie psycho horror character but shes doing it for real!

She looks totally psychotic.

R203, fuck off, Sugar.

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I think people on this thread tend to think negatively of Harry and Meghan and assume everyone thinks like them, but Harry has been way more popular than Kate and William for at least a few years now. He has what William lacks: good with people, not work shy and spontaneous. William is everything Harry is supposedly lacking: steady, poised, and very much a “royal”.

Americans who think the Brits pomp and circumstance are stupid are naturally going to gravitate towards Harry and Meghan. They are the anti William and Kate, whom a lot of people find boring. Even Meghan and Harry’s fuck ups are entertaining because at least they are doing SOMETHING. It’s Will and Kate’s job to be boring, and Harry and Meghan are going to be polar opposite. I don’t get why people can’t enjoy both without being called names.

I already said in one of the D T threads she was pregnant before the Wedding . He didn’t want to marrie like Charles said in his bio .

R208, I'm a big fan of William and Kate, and I can't stand Meghan Markle, but I appreciate your post. I would rather hear from people like you on this thread ― who can spell and use punctuation, who can construct a grammatically correct sentence, who take the time to compose thoughtful paragraphs, who don't spam us with multiple photos, and who don't immediately tell anyone who expresses a different opinion to "fuck off" ― than from our crazier Meghan haters.

I so much hope that they will take the hint and leave us alone again; it's very obvious who they are right now. We were having such calm and interesting conversations on these BRF threads until they showed up.

Well, R210, feel free to fuck off.

R210 Thanks. For what it’s worth, I like Kate and William too. I just think it’s fascinating to see to two very different couples with two different public images try and navigate the press craziness.

Megs is doing the low-key Madonna-like publicity thing in that if she knows it's going to stir criticism, then she's all for it. No such thing as bad publicity. I'm not a detractor, but just honest. She was a shit actress - really, she couldn't act. Try to get through an episode of "Suits" without wondering how she got that gig. She's one of the most famous women in the world now, which is what I suppose she always wanted. She's fascinating because she's got us all wondering what her end game is going to be. This ain't her first rodeo, and the BRF certainly isn't the last stop in Petticoat Junction for her. She's going somewhere with all this shit. Leo woman - poor, poor Harry.

Agreed, R212. The contrast between the couples should provide drama and entertainment for years to come, as I think Meghan plans to hang on to this gig as long as she can. Her getting pregnant so soon after the wedding, or perhaps even before it, shows how serious she was about locking everything down.

Nutmeg is fascinating because she’s done so much with so little. If she weren’t so annoying, it would be admirable in a way.

She does not seem to be smart or talented, and is attractive only be sheer force of will/starvation/surgery/tons of makeup and hair.

But the thing that really, really stands out is her complete lack of self awareness. She is aggressively clueless, and seems to think her Oprah style pablum passes for great profundity.

I mean, there are times I speak in cliches to keep things light, but I’m certainly aware I’m just trying to move things along and keep it breezy.

Meg says similar things but thinks she is a philosopher for the ages. Or else she thinks she has everyone snowed, which is equally hilarious.

I personally think she’s really pretty, certainly up there with the prettiest royals and royal adjacents alongside Princess Madeleine and Charlotte Casigrahi.

R216, hahahahahahahahahahahaha ...

R216, I also think she's extremely pretty, but so are many, many women. That alone doesn't land someone where she is right now. R215 is right: She has clawed her way to the top of the social heap with nothing but chutzpah in her toolkit.

And R217 is exactly the type of poster I was referring to in R210. They contribute nothing with comments like these.

R208 - "Way more" . . . how much more? William and Kate came right behind Harry and the Queen and no one knows yet what impact his considerably less savoury "What Meghan wants, Meghan gets!" persona will have on that ranking, or what impact Kate's and William's newly stepped up programme will.

And, again: the Sussex wedding drew the lowest UK viewership of any royal wedding ever broadcast.

This is a self-selected group on this site. But generally, the Briton on the street really doesn't get out of bed in the morning thinking about Meghan and Harry and the royals.

R216 - Meghan wishes she looked like Princess Madeleine.

R218, fuck off.

I want to amend my post to add one thing to Meghan's toolkit: She had both chutzpah and an ice-cold ability to use and discard people on her way up.

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Meghan is very pretty, and she's obviously mastered the skills of networking. She would be the heroine in an 80s movie, when we celebrated people who were able to ruthlessly climb to the top of the heap. She's kind of like Alexis Carrington Colby, but with the ability to act like Kystle Carrington for stretches of time. And she probably regularly dealt with some racism as she grew up a mixed-race child in shallow LA, so she's had some struggles to deal with. I'm surprised she's not a DL fave.

But the problem is: instead of rising above it, she embraced it. Some of those folks she dumped...did she really need to dump them? I think it would have been pretty cool for a 35-year-old woman to post a photo of herself with someone she's been friends with for 25 years. More points if the friend doesn't fit the LA glam mold. If she wanted to pursue more flashy, camera-ready friends, that's fine, but couldn't she have kept for other friends (and family), too?

Good one, R47

If she gives birth in Feb that only means she conceived on the wedding night or a few days before or after. Conception dates, for a full term pregnancy, can be determined by adding three months plus 6 to 10 days to the birthdate. So if a baby is born on Feb. 1st, conception is roughly May 6th to 10th the year prior. This generally works.

Madelaine of Sweden was likely a week to 10 days pregnant when she married Chris O'Neil in 2013. I heard no news her first child was a preemie, so there you have it. It happens, even to the royals.

R226 - I agree with your pot - and I do remember noting that about Madeleine of Sweden.

At any rate, I don't think when she got pregnant is the real issue in the marriage or her relationship with the rest of the BRF.

Everyone, including yours truly, knew and predicted that she'd get herself in the Club as fast as possible, given her age and the need to show she could, and for an insurance policy.

Princess Anne Christening Day.

R208, You are mostly correct on all counts. Harry is or used to be the most popular royal, hands down. It was almost as if his stupidity endeared him to people and made a fine contrast to William's reserve and aloofness. But this is mostly about media interaction. I've seen William in action when he's on royal duty with the people and he is very very warm and personable with whoever he's interacting with. He seems like the sort who could do it in his sleep. Don't forget at Diana's ghastly funeral procession, he was actively shaking hands with and consoling the weeping masses. It's probably lifelong training as the Heir kicking in.

I saw a video of Prince William having a discussion bout bullying. The other panelists included a teen girl who was a victim of bullying and a woman whose teenage son had committed suicide after years of bullying. William seemed genuinely concerned about the issue they were discussing. At the end of the interview he asked the grieving mother if he could give her a hug. He had just the right mix of concern, seriousness, and warmth. It's true, you won't see him throw out his inhibition and dance with the natives like Harry has done in Africa, but it's unfair to dismiss him as aloof. The Queen and Charles could not have hoped for a better heir (or spouse) for his generation

This has been deleted from the British Fashion Awards account.....

R226 - I meant, of course, that I agree with your "post".

Your pot may be fine, as well, but that's not pertinent to the discussion here.

R227

R231 Because of the trolls, they'll say. The cruel trolls!!! But really it was a very unroyal photo. You're a member of the BRF now, Meghan, not a C list actress. Present the award, pose formally and professionally with the recipient and call it a night. She's still in her SOHO mindset.

Quite right, R230. Im sure William has his issues with the BRF, re:Diana, just like Harry. But there's a lot to admire about the way hes conducted himself. He's quite dignified for someone his age and he chose very well in Kate. She has been nothing but an asset. Shw will definitely model herself on the Queen Mother - the quiet "power behind the throne" On a related note, I wonder if William has benefitted from the grooming and counsel he must have received from the Firm as the Heir. And that is the key to his difference from Harry But then again, Charles received the same training but was a glorious mess in his youth.

R224 If Meghan has 25 year old friendships they would have been friends at 11-12 years old. It's not common for Americans who live in big cities to still have friends from elementary school. It's more common to stay in touch with college friends. Meghan has at least one college friend who is still part of her circle. She and Lindsay Roth were reportedly at Northwestern together.

R200 is a victim of the declining science education standards around the world.

R224 - I have to disagree with your statement about Americans not having long term, childhood friends for life. I’m in my mid-40’s, and my oldest friend is from kindergarten. I also have a number of friends from grammar school, and high school along with the expected college friends. I don’t mean to imply we’re all besties and chat everyday, but we see each other at least once a year. Kindergarten, 2 grammar, and 2 HS friends I’m in much more frequent contact and see much more often - we’ve all turned out gay, so there’s that. lol

So I don’t think it’s all that uncommon, unless I’m atypical? Who knows! Just my 2 cents - back to BRF gossip now...

Can someone explain what a ‘Home Counties Girl’ is? I see it used in reference to Kate often, not sure what it means.

The Home Counties surround London.

In the deleted moving pic at the link in r231, she's still doing the heavy belly cup thing, even backstage standing around talking to people. Clare Kelleher and Rosamund Pike are standing there like normal, and there's Duchess Meg, grabbing hold of her belly like its about to fall off. Very strange imo.

The only one I remember clutching top and bottom like that all the time in public was Beyonce, and well, erm...

R238 imagine the horsey posh girls in Agatha Christie novels or Midsomer Murders.

Beyonce didn’t do it 24/7. She did it once on stage right after she announced she was pregnant with Blue, and she did it in her photo shoot when she was pg with the twins.

R238 Think genteel, upper middle class, went to good schools, usually fee-paying ones, aspires to catch a husband who can provide 4 holidays a year and a house with an AGA.

I read Diana's real wish was to dance with Mikhail Baryshnikov, who was also a guest that night, and Charles' wish was to dance with Diana Ross, ditto, but this was never conveyed to the guests in question. I think she was asked if she'd like to dance with Travolta and then they told Travolta.

Never liked Diana's high glamour looks, even though the dresses were stunning and she was beautiful. Don't think they looked natural on her, although she carried the jewelry off fabulously.

The media tends to love the royals who play it up for the cameras and stop and pose, and dislike the royals who focus on the people they've come to see. The people in the media like personal attention and flattery just as much as everyone else. And they're just as solipsistic. They equate "popular with the media" with "Popular."

R245, Baryshnikov couldn’t dance that night, he had an injury.

I never thought Diana was "beautiful. " She was a very attractive woman and she was charismatic, but never beautiful.

i got banned from Celebitchy for calling their pitting of Meghan and Kate against each other misogynistic...which it is. They call themselves feminists but then happily trash a woman who has done nothing offensive...ever.

ANOTHER green outfit‽‽‽ ‽ Oh gawd, make her STOP!!!!

R238 - “Home County Girls” are exactly as have been described, and when you get right down to it, both of Charles’ wives were HCG’s. Both came from privileged families (one aristocratic, one gentry); both went to private, fee paying, and finishing schools; both had “jobs” in London while looking for husbands (pre school assistant and design assistant); both enjoyed country pursuits (deer stalking and horses); etc..

In many ways, they shared some similarities in that world within a world they lived in. Many more differences of course, but much the same nonetheless. As I once heard someone remark when contrasting the two, “Diana would take the day to prepare for a ball - laying her gown, selecting her jewels, having her makeup and hair done whereas Camila would be bathed and dressed for a ball in 30 minutes after spending the whole day in the saddle on a hunt.”

Interesting R181 - I looked at the blog attached to the Instagram profile you linked - the clutch and shoes Kate wore with the dress (I don’t hunk they were a great match for that dress, however not completely foul) have been used by Kate recently in other outfits, such as the forest green blazer and black pants combo (which was tasteful and classic). She’s also worn the blazer on a royal visit to Canada - Kate is definitely living up to her reputation of recycling outfits, shoes and accessories, which isn’t a bad thing in this day and age. She seems to invest in pieces and reuses these - it makes her seem classy but also resourceful and not decadent, like Meghan.

*hunk = think. WTF? Lol!

R185 - [bold]THAT[/bold] video! Those poor girls being manhandled by the opportunistic Grandmother, whilst their clues in mother walks in front of the cameras to obscure the infantas!

Clued in*

A Subaltern's Love-song by Betjeman is a celebration of a Home Counties gel, Miss Joan Hunter Dunn.

R251 - With respect, there are some holes in your comparisons between Diana and Kate. Neither particularly enjoyed country pursuits - Kate never went stalking before having to because she was up at Balmoral as William's intended, and Diana loathed the country and hunting and disliked riding, although she tried to get used to it (cue James Hewitt). Kate has never been seen on a horse. And Kate's family wasn't "gentry" - Carole's grandfather was a coal miner and she was born in a council house. The Middletons were newly arrived middle-class for most of Kate's growing up. Diana, of course, was from the old (even if not the oldest), distinguished landed aristocracy and grew up next door to the royals.

But both were essentially urban girls who only tolerated the "country pursuits" that their prospective in-laws favoured, and in this they share MM's tastes. They were both what used sarcastically to be called, "Sloane Rangers" - well to do girls whose lives centered around the shops and boutiques and cafes of Sloane Square whilst waiting for that quality husband to show up.

The difference was that Diana was still a Sloane Ranger when she hooked up with Charles and was poorly educated and of a generation that supposed that that didn't matter. Kate met Charles at university - and a very good university. So there were some generational differences that reflected society's, even the aristocracy's, changed expectations re educated women as partners.

But the really profound similarity was not changed from one generation to another: both women saw their opportunity in the matrimonial stakes early, and neither wavered in pursuing it and making it the central focus of their lives. All Diana wanted was to be Princess of Wales; all Kate wanted was to be William's wife, his children's mother, and to fulfill her mother's dreams of climbing to the top of the UK's social pyramid.

Both succeeded - one ended up in catastrophe, the other seems to have landed quite amazingly on her feet.

^ Yes, mostly agree with R257. But you forget that Kate has always been quite sporty and into outdoor activities. Her participation in competitive sport is something the Middletons always encouraged so it has not all been for Wills' benefit. I concur on the Middletons' impressive social climbing but I do get the sense that Kate dotes on William. It is quite obvious. She loves the status and the wealth obviously but I can see she loves him. Not so obvious on his part, but maybe he is not the wear-your-heart -on-your-sleeve type?

R257 R258 The comparison was between Diana and Camilla. There was no mention of Kate.

Desperate to defend Kate at every opportunity, are we?

Hey, R258 here and there's no reason to take that tone with me. I've defended Meghan upthread as well.

I wasn't referring to the Meghan vs Kate debate. I was simply noting that R257 is a treatise in defense of Kate when she hadn't even been mentioned at R251. You, dear R260, were merely collateral damage.

Alrighty, dearest R261, you are forgiven. God save the Queen.

I truly wonder if Kate and William's relationship is solid? Do you think William loves her? He is so hard to read.

R263 Kate said yes. That was the main thing. Love is the privilege of Boons and Mill and Hallmark.

Either they have a very loving, close relationship, or they are very good actors. William's OK. I don't hate him, but I'm not his biggest fan. He seems like a stick in the mud and I think Kate knows how to reach him and get him to loosen up. I think they are perfect for one another and very well suited to succeed Charles.

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R258 again, my 2 cents are that while Kate seems way more into him than he does, he realised through the difficult example of his parents' marriage that romantic, passionate love should have very little to do with it for someone in his position. He needed someone he could trust, someone who would never run to the paps no matter how rough things got, someone who would never EVER do a panorama interview and a woman who could give him a stable home. It sounds very dreary and 1950s but then so is the archaic institution he represents. The sad reality is that he will be much happier with a companionate style marriage with Kate than he ever would in a passionate love affair with someone more glamorous. His position and early experiences sealed his fate, but he has been smart enough to understand this and has done the right thing by accepting his lot.

His brother on the other hand is clearly in love with his wife but they seem to have little in common and I don't know if it will last once the initial frisson wears off.

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Charles and Harry today

Oh lord. Run Bea, run! She should just move back to New York and cool her heels here till she finds someone. She's only 30. She'll find someone. Why this desperation?

The Yorks will not be outdone in any department: saccharine (Eugenie) or sleaze (Beatrice).

Perfectly put r257, and totally agree r267.

I wonder if Bea has daddy issues. Because if this dude was older he would be in Andrew's circle of scum for sure.

r273

he also has that cad look andrew used to have, i think...

hmm... bea looks very cute for herelf in the video r268 posted. she has rarely looked this good. hmm

I hope you're refer to her face rather than that unfortunate dress.

i was talking about her face and her hair... and i also found the color of the dress rather nice. i think she tends to wear really intense colors sometimes... and i'm not sure it's a good idea. the neckline wasn't bad either imo

R259 - My mistake - apologies, I read too quickly and thought it was Charles's and William's wives in comparison But really - how on earth does my post amount to some sort of defence of Kate?! It simply points out neither she nor Diana NOR Meghan Markle are country girls. I agree, Camilla is the exception and that is probably one of the reasons Charles should have married her first instead of hooking himself up with that fatuous glamour addict.

And in that regard, HELLO Magazine has an article on Frogmore Cottage and the evidence of security preparations, and I have to say, from the photos, it looks positively depressing. Bears no comparison to what the Queen did for the Cambridges with Anmer Hall. I cannot imagine that Meghan Markle was anything but furious at this turn of events, especially as it comes with the proviso that it become their home base, with none in London.

I don't believe that this is how and where Meghan imagined she'd be living when she hooked the Prince of Wales' younger son.

And I cannot imagine she will be anything but miserable there.

They are doing a multi million dollar renovation that should make up for it. The surrounding greenery is beautiful. Does anyone think they’ll have an apartment in London too? IF the rift between the couples are true, Harry and Meghan might want to get a place in St James or Buckingham

R267 - Except that it wasn't passionate romantic love for Diana on Charles's part. It was clear that he thought he was doing the right thing, but not with someone he was personally deeply in love with. The country and the press were deeply in love with Diana, and Diana (she thought) was deeply in love with him, but Charles was only in love with marrying a suitable girl, getting an heir, and getting it over with. He thought he was doing exactly what William did with Kate, but he did it with the wrong woman.

R279 - That renovation is being done at taxpayer expense, so they'll have to be careful about how extravagant it is. Of course the greenery is nice, but it's hardly the Cotswolds or the Lake District or Gloucestershire for beauty, and there's nothing there that Meghan wants to do. She'll have to head to London every time she wants to lunch with friends at a chic restaurant, or shop the retail flesh pots. It's a quite dull little place.

If one believes the Daily Mail and most comments on this thread, nothing short of the entire Kensington Palace or at least Clarence House will satisfy Meghan.

If however, she's an ambitious woman who through, work, luck and love ended up a Duchess then Frogmore is quite lovely. Kate was rich before her marriage and was accustomed to living on a large estate. Meghan has only lived in small apartments or homes. That includes NottCott. Frogmore is the biggest house she's ever had.

If she's truly a calculating haridan then Frogmore can be spun as a PR success. In a time of austerity she and Harry took a tiny home. When things have calmed down, and they have paid their dues, they will expect to be rewarded for being team players. Does this mean Meghan's in it for the long haul...or at least until she can score a bigger property and a higher standard from which to start the divorce calculations?

For those who think she's calculating, Frogmore seems like a much easier place to do a casual pap stroll than Kensington Palace. Fencing outside the front door is so convenient.

R282 - Of course, she's in it for the long haul. It's the best gig she's ever gotten or ever will get. She's no 20 year old ingenue as Diana was.

If she behaves and gets her competitive narcissistic impulses under control (which is doubtful given her self-promoting appearance at the British Fashion Awards), and starts acting as if she understands who is controlling her life now, and stops using her friend Lainey to bash Kate and William, the Queen may in a few years give the Sussexes a London base - a suite of rooms in St. James, as Beatrice and Anne have when they have to stay over.

But a bigger home that also needs millions in renovations? Bad optics.

For the moment, the optics of the last few weeks point to a joint family decision, approved by the Queen, to make Meghan aware of where she stands in the hierarchy. After all, Charles is plenty rich enough to have found them a much nicer country home than this.

Bea is clearly desperate: Seeing her younger sister marry before she did, AND her ex-boyfriend of 10 years marry a woman he'd only been dating a short while, was a double-blow to the ego that only a hasty marriage of her own could assuage. She's probably eager to at least beat Eugenie to the mummy stage.

However, her fiance does seem to be a massive sleaze. The marriage will be over in a year or two, and she'll be left a single mother.

R280- What I meant was not that Charles and Diana married each other for love or passion but that the expectation of 'troo lurve' doomed their union. Charles wanted to marry his one true love Camilla and was bitter about being asked to let go of her. As a result, he just could not take an interest in his beautiful young wife. Diana was a heady teenager buying into the Barbara Cartland fantasy of marrying a prince. And the one thing she absolutely could not accept was Charles' cheating and love for another woman. If she had just done that and looked the other way, as many aristocratic and high society wives often do (and as indeed the BRF expected her to) there is no doubt in my mind that she would still be alive and very much married to the Prince of Wales, albeit living quietly separate lives. The reason she just couldn't play along is because she was chasing an illusion of "real love", first with Charles, then with Hasnat and then allegedly (and quite fatally) with Dodi. William thankfully learnt the 'realpolitik' of love and marriage as it exists in the BRF from his parents and made his choice, as you said. with the right woman. On a somewhat kookier note- A Cancer with his moon also in Cancer and a Capricorn with her moon in Cancer, isn't that pretty much guaranteed to last?

R257 - I read that Kate was allergic to horses so that would explain why she hasn't been photographed riding.

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Meghan is suppose to be visiting a seniors home solo next week. It's a home for former entertainers. She's never far from her actress roots.

I love these photos of the Queen helping Charles and Anne into the window at Balmoral.

The end result was worth it.

R289 It's logical to put Meghan at entertainment events and with women's issues. It's logical to put Kate with sporting events and with children's issues. It's logical to put Harry with military events and with youth issues (he's a youth in royal terms). William should be able to do it all.

A photo Harry and Meghan around the time of their engagement.

Charles the father has more hair on top than Harry the son. Go figure!

I'm wondering at the possibilities with Charlotte having to spend Christmas with the same Sparkle who, if the story is true, made her mother cry at the fitting for Charlotte's dress. And staying in their home too.

What a Bah Humbug decision.

Queen Victoria has been reincarnated in the form of Princess Beatrice.

Meghan with her Soho house friend Markus Anderson.

R294 where was Meggers?

Preparing for another engagement WITHOUT dear hubby?

Beatrice needs a complete make over , including a personal stylist. Her hair color is all wrong for her complexion. She needs to go medium blondish/ brown. More gold highlights not reddish. Ugh. She needs a haircut and style to look like a young professional. Those long locks do her no favors. Her hair is dull and lifeless. Then her make up. She absolutely must get rid of raccoon eyes. Period. And dear Lord do something about those teeth! Then her clothes. Those long puffed out sleeves are verboten. No. Get rid of them. If she must wear a long sleeve it ought to be tight. No fussy frocks. No ruffles and tied belts and high granny collars.

Why in the world would M-M be entitled to barge in on entertainment or fashion events? She is Z actress with no style who wears Ralph Lauren. She stole trained British actress Rosamund Pike's presenting position at the fashion thing, to inform the world that she knew a bunch of people there. And to point out the pregnancy to end all pregnancies, of course.

Now if relying on men all your life to get somewhere falls under "womens issues," then she s got that.

I wonder what the women at the Fashion Event really thought of her "performance".

Meghan might be a logical choice for entertainment events, R292, but certainly not for women's issues. She has no knowledge, qualifications, or track record of interest/accomplishment in that field (and, no, the photo ops that were arranged for her in Africa and India by her PR firm during her persona-crafting Tig years don't count).

Forgive my frustration with this, but it extends beyond Meghan. I have two graduate degrees in maternal health and girls' education, respectively, and have worked for many years in the very specific field of education for adolescent mothers and girls who are at high risk of becoming adolescent mothers. When I began, it wasn't a field that people my age showed much interest in. But, somewhere along the way, in tandem with the rise of social media, it became fashionable. Acquaintances wanted me to see their "feminist activism" on Twitter and Instagram; they wanted to loudly discuss subjects like birth control access at parties to demonstrate their wokeness to all and sundry. I became skilled at beating hasty retreats from these situations, as nothing is more exasperating than hearing a complex, nuanced, and politically delicate issue reduced to posturing and sloganeering.

May I suggest, as a sort of compromise, that Meghan work to promote arts education in the schools? She did have a career as an actress, whatever we here at DL might think of it, and she participated in the theater program at Northwestern as an undergraduate student. I think that would be a reasonable fit of person to platform.

That picture of Sparkle at the round table discussion with professionals was embarrassing to see.

R299, her hair colour is perfectly fine. It's her eyes and teeth that are weird, but not hopeless. Her make-up, however, certainly doesn't help.

How long has R302 been waiting to tell us about those two graduate degrees like it matters on a gossip site.

I don’t know if I would say she never had a track record for working for women empowerment... when she was a kid, she wrote the letter to that dish soap company and got them to change their slogan because she found it anti feminist. Pre Harry, she went spoke about women’s issues at forums and went to India to speak on women’s issues. She also worked with the UN Entity for Gender Equality and Women Empowerment

R305 - now, don't be jealous of someone who knows what they're talking about because they're actually educated in field you and Meghan probably know very little about. Please stop sounding like a Deplorable.

Royal patronages aren't based on being the most qualified or having graduate degrees in an area. It's about passion/interest. Kate doesn't have degrees in early childhood education. She's a mother and she cares about children's issues so she's connected to schools and children's hospitals.

R306, that was her trying to build her brand.

She's such a HUMANITARIAN!

R308 I agree. If we only left charity work to people with a degree in that field, not a lot would get done.

The designer of her wedding dress was getting an award. It was a big award and they invited Meghan, as a surprise, to present the award. And BTW: The Royals and other celebrities are fashion leaders and major consumers whether we like it or not. And some of the leaders have no taste but there it is. As for "credentials" to discuss women? Meghan is no stranger to advocating for women. She is now in a great position to do it and I applaud her for saying so. She shines a spotlight on issues in a way no civilian expert can.

The designer of her wedding dress got an award? What award?

The award for creating a rather boring wedding dress and the tackiest veil imaginable?

I loved the veil

R309 I'm not saying Meghan is sincere. I can't know that. I'm just saying she's expressed an interested in women's issues so it wouldn't be inconsistent for KP to assign her an appearance or patronage related to that.

R310. I agree. I appreciate both those with expertise and those with passion who choose to donate time and money to charities.

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R314 should read "an interest." Sorry for the typo.

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R313, either you're a Meghan lunatic frau with abominable taste or, sadly, a gay with equally abominable taste.

Anyway, the key word is abominable taste, you know.

Subjects,

I seek vociferously your kind voicings of condolence as I find myself purulently conflicted, lapping like a vastly bouyant buoy bobbing atop the ebony abyss betwixt surf and sea. As a vaulted member of my Realm's intelligentsia I have momentarily ago received an advanced notice of a previously-unheard-of and oncoming tempest which I shall call The Belgian Exit! Be not alarmed, subjects. I shall keep calm, toss my hair in a bun....and, dear me, I shan't find within the cavernous expanses of my soporific brain the rest of my dear friend Benazir Bhutto's Pulitzer-nominated quote.

Within the shell of the nut, it appears such that the dilatory peasantry of my Realm, on this torpid day, have been given allowance wherein they may vote to leave The Justified and Ancient Continents of Europe and Belgium!

WHAT??? Which insidious usurper to my aureate throne, that of the Great Duchestry of Sussex, has allowed the poors to vote?? Foresuch knowing that I left Toronto for this??? Subjects, the light within me honors the light within you, however, as poors, your own humble, dirt-clawing, pinkie-down, lank-haired, varicose-vained, muddy-heeled selves whom know nothing of the arcane and enigmatic knowledge of The Justified and Ancient Continents of Europe and Belgium, such as thus that we dilettantes know as the home of:

1. GIVENCHY

2. BRINY FRENCH BUTTER

3. THE TUMESCENT ZAAAAAAA ZAAAAAAA ZAAAAAAA SOUNDS MADE BY ITALIANS

4. THE GLORIOUSLY SPOTTED LIVESTOCK OF THE DALMATION COAST

5. SAGACIOUSLY UNCTUOUS RACLETTE

6. THE LOURVRE GALLERY

7. SPAGHETTI ALLA CHITARRA

And Belgium is the home of...

1. AXEL VERVOORDT, TANTAMOUNTLY FAMED AND LAUDATORIED DESIGNER AND FOUNDER OF RESTORATION HARDWARE

WE MUST STOP THIS!!! I shall at this very moment consult Mother, for it is she whom bestows platitudinous wordings of succor to those in voracious need.

I shall pass unto your selves her wordings shortly,

R319 - I commend your vocabulary but question where Flower would understand even half what you were saying.

Bravo, Princess Flower at R319! I can’t understand a word you said, but it’s beauty moves me!

R319. Racist much?

Wait. The French design house was actually honored by the Brits instead of shunned for producing the absolute worst fitted dress of 2018? It was as if she pulled it off the rack the day before because the original one got lost in the post. We have the pictures, we've all seen it. Embarrassing, with a chapel veil for the blushing Marianne Williamson devotee.

Flower! One of your best yet! R319 it's called satire. If you are going to be humourless, you can exit anytime.

Sorry that "exit anytime" was directed at R322 Please do not dock my commission R319.

Hi R257, R251 here. I wasn’t comparing Diana and Kate, rather Diana and Camila. You do make some good observations about Diana and Kate, however I have to respectfully disagree with you regarding Diana. Diana was far more a product of country life than you think. Yes, she would have been considered a “Sloane Ranger” but that is what country girls from privileged families did - they came out, did the season, got a “job” in London, attended the right parties, nightclubs - all with the aim of meeting the right sort of husband from their circles. The type that could provide the country place and a place in the city. Diana would have been a catch given her background and wealth, but as she thought herself, since she was able to purchase her own large period flat thanks to a legacy from her grandmother, she only needed a husband who could afford the country house.

Diana herself spent most weekends at house parties in the country. It was at one of these she first became reacquainted with Charles. True, she did not ride after being thrown from a horse in her youth, but she enjoyed some country pursuits. It was she who took the boys deer stalking which Charles didn’t enjoy - preferring his water colors.

Had Charles married Camila or Princess Olga or any of the other rumoured girlfriends, Diana would have had a marriage and life similar to her sisters. The house and family in the country, the husband working in the city, a flat in town for social events. When you think about it, it would have been a life similar to the one Camila had with her first husband.

I do agree with what was said up thread, if Diana opted to “go along to get along” she’d still be alive and PoW today. I truly don’t think Diana wanted a divorce - whether she received horrible advice or it was her own bad decisions, she thought the Andrew Morton book and Martin Bashir interview would strengthen her hand in negotiating a separation. Both backfired on her. Interestingly enough, the Queen thought as the mother of the future king, Diana should retain her status as HRH - but Charles was adamant against it. I’d wager even then he was planning to eventually marry Camila and didn’t want a competing HRH around.

R326 - And who pray tell is Princess Olga?

I don't think Meghan the Mark can or wants to represent the Royal Family, therefore I do not think she should be the patron of any charity at present. She should have a 3 year trial period representing what a decent engagement period should be. That shameless "star search guest hostess" presentation at the Fashion Awards was an embarrassment.

R318 I love that you have to confine your ridiculous "tendrils" talk to this one, sad thread. Carry on, sugar!

R329 - you seem confused. A Sugar is a Meghan lover. I'm not getting that feeling from R318.

Au contraire, R308, DL is the place for every topic and every sort of personal confidence, from the Wrigleyville Cumdump to pasta straining to traumatic family Thanksgivings. But you make a fair point here:

[quote]Royal patronages aren't based on being the most qualified or having graduate degrees in an area.

I'm an American, and am not as familiar with the royal patronage system as some other posters seem to be. I've been thinking of it as similar to our own tradition of charity work for First Ladies. Generally speaking, presidents' wives choose uncontroversial topics that are often (but not always) connected with their prior careers. Laura Bush's literacy work, which sprang from her years as a librarian and teacher, is one example. When they do choose more sensitive topics, they typically bring compelling personal expertise to the table, such as Betty Ford's efforts to raise awareness of breast cancer after her own diagnosis and surgery.

God knows I would like to see more attention and resources diverted to women's health and girls' education. But, as much as I wish these topics fell under the "uncontroversial" heading, for many people, they don't. I therefore think they have to be handled with a bit more care, by sensible advocates who are willing to devote themselves to the cause for the long haul, rather than by celebrity types who are primarily concerned with their own branding.

R325 Laugh at Meghan all you want. Casual racism just isn't any more humorous than casual homophobia.

I'm calling out the image about gangsta rap. There is not suggestion that Meghan is violent or is linked to violence. No criticism of Kate links her to violence. Just because Meghan is black doesn't mean she listens to or endorses the homophobic misogynistic violence often featured in gangsta rap.

R329, nice try of distracting people of your sugar metabolism, Zuckerschnecke.

Anyway, you fail. But at least you tried.

Btw, is there any chance you're R319 aka RACIST! Troll?

[quote]I'm calling out the image about gangsta rap.

The one that's posted exclusively by white mug-cradlers on Instagram, you mean. Good job.

Hence the casualness of the racism.

R331 I must agree that DL is the place for every topic. I did get an excellent recommendation for a kitchen cleaner.

I bow to your expertise and acknowledge your two graduate degrees. It's true that people often pick up issues for branding and speak as experts when they are not. However I also think Meghan has shown some commitment to women's issues. How she handles it as part of the BRF is yet unknown.

Subjects,

Mother has put cyber quill to parchment! Let your desiccated souls be macerated wherewithin the succulent juiciness of her Akashic wisdom.

[quote]HRH Daughter,

[quote]We self-actualize, we reflect, we are reborn.

[quote]We must beckon ourselves and heal others. Imagine a summoning of what could be. Soon there will be a condensing of transcendence the likes of which the quantum soup has never seen.

[quote]Consciousness consists of psionic wave oscillations of quantum energy. “Quantum” means a redefining of the holistic.

[quote]We are at a crossroads of knowledge and suffering. Reality has always been bursting with seekers whose dreams are engulfed in non-locality. Consciousness consists of morphic resonance of quantum energy.

[quote]Where there is turbulence, conscious living cannot thrive. If you have never experienced this vector inherent in nature, it can be difficult to dream. How should you navigate this higher nexus?

[quote]Although you may not realize it, you are astral. Reality has always been full of seekers whose brains are baptized in self-actualization. Who are we? Where on the great quest will we be guided?

[quote]Indigo Child, look within and recreate yourself.

R334 , Bump cradling is the new mug cradling.

Ahhhh R337 is that from the holy papers Tig? So byootifull.

Enough with the R word on here. Please abstain or leave. We would like to keep the BRF threads on point and most importantly intact. Thank you.

So..... a French company dresses (and i use the term dresses loosely) an American, and is supposedly honored by the British fashion bz. Eh? In these here parts, that is known as getting a very sloppy bang for your merching buck.

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Apologies R327! Sometimes posting on the phone, my mind forms the complete thought, but I don’t type it fast enough! lol

Princess Olga is Princess Olga Romanoff, granddaughter of the last Tsar’s sister, Grand Duchess Xenia. In the 70’s she was considered a good match for Charles because of her lineage as well as the fact she was British born and bred. She and Charles dated, supposedly Philip approved, but Charles dithered, still upset over Camila marrying when he dithered over her, so it came to naught. Olga did wind up marrying a wealthy member of the Anglo-Irish gentry, and had children. She lives in a 13th century mansion in the country, though she and her husband have lived separately but amicably for nearly 20 years.

I do think the coddling he received from his grandmother caused Charles’ dithering, indecisive nature with Camila, Olga, Amanda Knatchbull, and others. He and Diana had the misfortune of courting just as the paparazzi were evolving into what we have now. No other previous girlfriend was subjected to the same amount of media attention because it didn’t exist as such before. HM and the DoE only pressured Charles to make a decision one way or the other regarding Diana as they felt it wasn’t fair to her, and to string her along with no outcome would ruin her reputation (still a big thing at the time). Philip was also known to have zero patience with Charles indecisiveness, so I’m sure it wasn’t a friendly chat.

I blame a lot of Charles' dithering on Dickie Mountbatten. He was determined to have Charles for his young granddaughter Amanda, because it wasn't enough to have his nephew Philip married to the Queen. While he waited for Amanda to get old enough for marriage, he advised Charles to play around and sow wild oats, which Charles did for all of the 1970s. Then Dickie got blown up by the IRA, Charles was devastated and open to the seemingly sympathetic Di's doe-eyed charm, got further pressured into marrying by his father with no Uncle Dickie as counterbalance, and the rest is history.

The only smart decision was made by Amanda Knatchbull, who gently turned down Charles' proposal after her grandfather died. Who knows if she'd have accepted if Mountbatten had been alive to exert pressure, but it's just as well he wasn't: Amanda and Charles are second cousins, and that family is inbred enough.

Givenchy is a French Fashion House, but Claire Wright Keller is British. So maybe she sees it as a compromise?

r283 That doesn't look like Frogmore Cottage. Not sure what house Hello is looking at.

Hi R345, if the house and money are in France how is that a compromise? As a Brit what Keller has displayed goes against the tradition of fine needle art excellence that England, particularly, is known for. And as a supposed French house, well no comment there. The whole thing is a disgrace. Brit fashion has mostly gone down the shitter with McQueen's death; Galliano fading was another big blow. You know when Sparkles is parading around in Posh Spice and Serena Williams clothes as supposed high style, that Fashion is dead.

R346 Same house, different angle

Wait, WAIT. Where in r319's delightful satirical post is there any hint of a reference to gangsta rap? Is that what r332 is saying?

I too would condemn any reference to that topic in relation to MM, and I've been a willing happy participant in many of the threads. I may have missed something - please notate where this reference is, in this thread. If you accuse, show the proof.

I see a mocking of Italians in r319, and Belgium (?) but nothing else implied like that.

Oh and more discussion re the Diana crazy newfound half-aunt please. I mean, did the British aristocracy do anything else BUT procreate with other non-aristo women in their spare time?

The award is for a British women's wear designer. Claire Waight Keller is still British. She didn't lose her citizenship by working for a French company. It's not only for British designers working in British fashion houses. I think the point is to celebrate British talent regardless of where they work.

R349. The link at R319 mentions gangsta rap. I noted what was implied by that image. HRH Flower responded with suitable satirical material at R337. Everyone moved on. Hope you're all caught up.

R340 wants to stay on topic. I agree.

r348. I disagree. It's a completely different style of house, the roof is pitched differently. Also there is no space for the other part of the cottage there. It's a gatehouse from some random country estate.

God, yes, please, R322.

I'm here for the Markle gossip, but I'm always fascinated by the things that other posters seem to know about scandals of the past, British fashion, etc. For example:

[quote]As a Brit what Keller has displayed goes against the tradition of fine needle art excellence that England, particularly, is known for.

R347 has taught me something; I didn't know that England was known for needle art. And are people really that unsatisfied with Sarah Burton's work for McQueen?

^ Damn, I meant to express agreement with R351! My eyes were focused on the wrong number; apologies.

^^^Apropos of nothing really but long time needle skills, the Bayeux Tapestry was made in England.

Fucking hell.

1. Gangsta rap — the jpg attached appears in the cubes, on the t-shirts, and on the Pinterests and Instagrams of white frauen and mug-cradlers of the variety MM herself desperately sought out as an audience for her tired “lifestyle” blog. Do a Google image search for “Tig thoughts” to see the array of like — and equally vapid — cutesy little mindfarts she posted. Then do another image search for “toss my hair in a bun” and see who is posting a million and one rose-gold, twiddly-fonted graphics of it on their Pinterests/Instagrams. Hint: not black women.

2. The mocking of Italians — the ‘zaaaaa’ thing was lifted directly from the insanely overwrought Tig post which inspired me in the first place...

[quote]It was that pasta that transports you to a sunny terrace in Positano, ivy dancing through the wire legs of the table, the lilt of laughter carrying over the slushing sounds of the sea. Where the air smells of bergamot & sunshine, and the world swells around you in a wave of long and lyrical “zaaa”s and the ring of glasses clinking. Where your pasta spins perfectly around your fork, just as the Italian “r” twirls off your tongue. It was that magical unctuous pasta that made this meal not just a dinner, but a stamp in my passport.

Was it MM’s intent to mock Italians? I don’t get that impression at all; just more purple prose spewing forth from her fingertips.

3. The mocking of Belgians — the EU headquartered in Brussels. Nothing more, nothing less. I just imagined that it wouldn’t be beyond Bean — in her never-ending, oft-failing quest to appear intelligent — to mistake the BR in Brexit as standing for Brussels. That’s exactly the sort of mistake she made over and over again on the Tig.

And that’s that.

Still moving on a la R340

Savile Row is known globally for its bespoke suits. That's another example of British needle work.

[quote]Bump cradling is the new mug cradling.

Now the fat Frau friends will have something to do with the beanbag chairs hanging off their fronts.

It's not Frogmore anything.

I'm kind of dying to know what the inside of Frogmore cottage looks like now. Could it be possible that it is cozy and fabulous in a shabby chic sort of way? Or just shabby?

"I think the point is to celebrate British talent regardless of where they work."

And regardless of how their clothes LOOK, too. Ugh.

The House of McQueen, on the other hand, have very high standards, R353, and Burton's haute couture dress for Kate was an engineering marvel and of couse perfectly fitted. She is doing well. The English fashion schools are outstanding, and the Royal School of Needlework operating out of Hampton Court Palace is A+, for a couple examples. They are carrying on of course, but this little fashion shindig doesnt bode well as they seem to regard Sparkles as well dressed.

R356, I've always found your writing delightful. You once responded to me on a night when I was doing some awful schoolwork, and I laughed until I nearly cried. It takes some history on this site, and knowledge of DL's bizarre culture, to appreciate the HRH Flower character. I feel sorry for the people wandering in from the outside who never had the pleasure of reading The Tig before it was scrubbed from the internet, and therefore don't get the joke.

Also, I am compelled to add: I often try to envision other DL posters, especially the ones whose "voices" I get to know over time. Some of them I'm pretty sure I've got nailed, based on the clues they drop. But I never know what to think of you. I have no idea whether you're a man or a woman, gay or straight, and so on. Whoever you are, thank you for your satire, and I hope your 9-5 involves writing of some kind.

In a bleary-eyed wee hours last look at the DM, a column appears asserting that Lady Colin Campbell, who wrote an expose about Diana called "Diana in Private" that broke a few stories (bulimia, James Hewitt) that shocked but later turned out to be true, and was published a few months before the Morton book - is now researching a book on Meghan, with the help of Meghan's cannabis farmer nephew who lives in the state of Oregon,and with whom Lady C. has apparently become very matey.

Lady C. acknowledged that Meghan is her next target, which probably will not prove soothing for the Duchess, as Lady C. isn't known for withholding juicy information. Lady C. says that the Markle family dynamics are "fascinating" more so even than we've already seen.

So now we have something to look forward to beyond tabloid petulance.

Wow. Lady Campbell also said that the MM story is "still developing" and that a lot more was going to be revealed. Sounds a little ominous.

I almost feel sorry for MM. This does indeed sound ominous. Part of me is slobbering for the dish, part of me is wondering if this isn't a bit TOO much of a pile-on at the moment. Save something for later!

Well, I might feel that way if I didn't think Sparkle had told some whoppers that she thought she could get away with.

And if she hadn't been so blatant herself (Vanity Fair, article, for example), in using publicity, it would be another matter.

She started the PR game, and so it continues.

This new "aunt" of Diana's, her stage actress mother allegedly had a long running affair with Frances Spencer Shand-Kydd's father, Lord Fermoy. This woman was conceived when he was older, only several years before he passed away. Her mother kept his love letters and passed them to her; she has tried to contact various 'relatives' over the years inc Earl Spencer, the Princes, and other members of the Roche/Spencer clan, to no avail.

She currently lives in Escondido (the horror! sorry) and has sold her story to the DM. She wants to exhume one of Diana's male relatives, who is buried in the US, to complete a DNA test. I wonder - if it confirms her paternity - if she'll be welcome at Althorp, KP or one of the other relatives' homes. Happy families!

R360, This little film is supposed to cover both Frogmore House and Frogmore Cottage,

Ooh, juicy r394. Is this just Lady Campbell promoting a possible new book? Or, is it the BRF using Lady Campbell to issue a threat to MM? The BRF seemingly keeps releasing little unsavory tidbits about MM hoping she'll take the hints and leave of her own accord. I think they're going to have to really drop some big dirt to shame her into leaving.

R363 that IS a juicy tidbit. I'd like to hear more about the Foreign Service uncle who secured Me's internship in Argentina -- how come he has been shunned? Where did Saint Doria go for seven years? Thomas spent his retirement on this girl's education -- why is she posing as self made? What about Soho House -- are the rumors true? I just hope the Tig manifesto is unearthed and parts reprinted in there haha. Lots to look forward to 2019-2020 .

R369 - According to the article, it's not a "possible" new book, it's an "in-progress" new book, and the BRF wouldn't touch Lady C. with the proverbial pole. She's been interviewing the cannabis farmer nephew quite publicly.

My real question is, will she or has she been interviewing Tom Markle, Sr., who could, if Meghan doesn't heal their divide and keeps him from ever seeing his own grandchild, exact quite a tidy revenge by spilling what he knows to Lady C.

I read "Diana in Private". It was well-written and for all the pooh-poohing when it first came out, her portrait of Diana over time was proved spot on. And, Lady C. is afraid of nobody and nothing.

In other news, tourists outside Buck House were thrilled to catch a glimpse of Kate driving herself through the gates of the Palace.

US Weekly has an article up about how "sources" say that Harry feels "helpless" to protect Meghan from the negative PR.

To me, this begs an interesting question that the fraus on CB are ignoring (or turning on its head as they moan about poor Harry's frustration on the part of his lady love): is Harry's uncharacteristic and ongoing silence re the slew of negative PR perhaps based in an awareness that he's partly responsible for it by not reigning in Meghan's bullshit (Tiara Gate before the wedding, abuse of staff, the stunt at the York wedding, and leaking anti-Cambridge stories to Lainey), and instead enabling her with shit like that "What Meghan wants, Meghan gets!"?

Does Harry perhaps realise that giving in to her demands to help her threaten the British press was also a major mistake that he now regrets, and that instead of meekly doing what she ordered him to do, he should have showed some spine and refused to start off on the wrong foot before they were even publicly engaged?

If the BRF weren't already pissed off at Meghan and Harry, and Harry didn't know that, it's not conceivable that he wouldn't have already come out with condemnations, more threats of lawsuits, and insistence that all the stories are completely false.

His silence isn't, I am guessing, a sign of his frustration, as US Weekly and its nonexistent sources claim, but of his awareness that his own family doesn't have Meghan's back, that she's already burnt bridges there, and that threats and anger now will only worsen a situation that fundamentally is his and Meghan's fault - particularly his, with his long experience with the British press.

Kate casually driving herself through the gate's of Buck House, presumably to visit HM, is another optic.

You raise some good points, R372 but what I want to know is what could Meghan POSSIBLY have done in under 6 months, to have turned the press (okay, that one we know why), the staff and the BRF against her?

I mean there's no doubt in my mind that she is an asshole and an attention ho who plays PR games and possibly is using her relationship with Harry entirely for personal motives, but that describes almost half the royal family with the exception of William and Kate and Her Majesty, of course. Re: bad behaviour with staff, Charles used to make staff members tie his shoe laces and has his own mattress carried with him no matter where he goes! So while Meghan definitely seems the 'actressy diva' type, does it compare to the messy antics of Charles, Diana, Fergie, Andy, Harry even? Having said that, there does seem to be truth to the rumours of being 'difficult' because the details are too specific and it's not just your usual tabloid writers who are saying this, but also Charles' biographer, the Times , Telegraph and Guardian who would be loathe to write anything without a solid source. If someone could get throw some light on what they think the root of the matter is with MM and the end of her honeymoon with the Brits, it would really help the discussion (apart from the usual lazy responses- it's racism! it's Andy! It's Carole! It's Will! it's because of her merching!) Surely, there is something rather serious that seems to be afoot?

[quote]If someone could get throw some light on what they think the root of the matter is with MM and the end of her honeymoon with the Brits,

For me, it was the first interview on the Beeb with Ginger Megs, and Megs very much taking charge of the interview making Ginger look like an admonished school boy. And the way the tabloids peddled her as a mix of Mother Teresa and Sojourner Truth. The Brit public expected a modicum of decorum; what they got was a bin full of trash and artifice.

Oh that interview was ghastly. It was like an intimate tete a tete with the GOP presidential nominee Meghan and her husband Harry.

That cover story and interview with Vanity Fair, just before the engagement, certainly didn't help either.

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r373, Charles expecting members of staff to tie his shoe laces is not bad behaviour. It's lazy but Charles was brought up in a different era, with staff that were around in the Edwardian era. Valet's used to do more than dealing with clothes. It's what they were paid to do. Yelling at staff? Being so demanding that they become upset? That is bad behaviour. They are not paid to be abused.

The CB folks and many other 'stans' online keep missing the point, this goes also to r373's question: Meghan is no longer a CELEBRITY, but now a working member of the BRF. She is Royalty, with all that entails, a move she willingly made when she accepted Harry's proposal and married him. I'm still not certain MM gets this yet. All the shiny prettiness, the ferocious networking skills, the ability to grab hold of the central spotlight from everyone else around you: not necessarily conducive to the staid, formal, corporate structured hierarchy and atmosphere of her current job.

I'm not sure that she even understands how to maneuver a 'hierarchy' given her prior experiences, a lacking trait which could prove deadly to her success. In no way is she supposed to outshine or take focus from the current monarch, or the heir. Her core role and responsibility is to SUPPORT those people and positions. Her own ego is not in play, she is not an independent operator as she was before, in show business. She's in a subservient service position for life, as some have noted here with no further means to advance or 'rise' in status or attention.

Celebrity and Royalty are two different worlds, and while some of her skill set from her prior career certainly is helpful to her current one, there should have been a clear understanding that the royal role/culture are a different being altogether. MM should have had a clue beforehand, but Harry is the instrumental key to acclimating her and helping her adjust as its been his milieu since birth. He ought to be quiet now, frankly, given how he's dropped that ball.

Should add above that those people, 'fans' who love her disruptive presence, who egg it on and who believe she is performing some kind of important function by 'shaking up the BRF' and putting them back to heel are doing her absolutely no favors. Disrupting the very institution that now supports her and can protect her is not a positive.

If the BRF and their 'court of vipers' (descrip courtesy of Lainey, today) are reacting badly to her - the wife of the 6th in line, and dropping - it couldn't be because she's exploiting the fame brought to her by her entry into that institution, at its high expense -right? The same institution they all work their asses off to sustain, stabilize and support.

R379 is right. If your job is to tie shoelaces then being asked to tie shoelaces is not abusive. If your job is to tie shoelaces and someone is yelling at you while you do it that would be abusive. I suspect Megs has no idea how to behave with staff so goes overboard in the imperious demands.

r377 As that story came from her pet sternographer, it could be that she is angling for it and trying to force them into giving it to her. It will be interesting to see what happens.

That's very well put, R381. It seems entirely plausible that this is a pre-emptive strike by the Firm before she hogs ALL the limelight away from the Heir (to the Heir) and his wife, who are, in all effect, the future of the monarchy. All she had to do was be a team player and she would likely have been rewarded in good time a la Sophie Wessex. But instead she is on course to make this the Meghan Show. I think this is in part due to her massive ego , yes, but a large part is fed by Harry's resentment at being the overshadowed one all his life. This is all very sad. People's unhealed and untended childhood issues make me feel very, very bad.

The cover of French mag Point De Vue.

Well, "frustrated" may be an understatement.

A future event for Meghan.

All we need is Harry to start hugging Meghan's tummy. Oh wait...lol.

R378, I absolutely love the Queen’s bright colors and matching hats. I’ll miss them when she’s gone. No one else will ever match that.

R380, excellent analysis.

R372, oh, I can believe she’s turned most everyone against her in a short time. Haven’t you ever been in a work situation where a new manager/boss has come in and turned the whole place upside down? It’s pretty awful. And if they have the backing of upper management, there’s nothing anyone can do. I’ve had a few experiences with that. All you can do is quit.

R387, elderly showpeople in diapers?

I suppose it’s a better fit for her than sick children...

Last we saw Haz, he was going on about menstrual blood at a memorial service to an audience of his peers, and then quickly slipping out the side door to the Clooneys. He might be happier in a celebrity setting.

Lainey has about as much influence as my toenail clippings.

There is a programme on UK channel ITV tonight at 7.30 on 'MM the story so far'

R390, if Meghan is angling for theater-related patronages (including elder care for retired entertainment industry workers), I think it's the wisest move she has made thus far. As much as I dislike her, it's a natural fit, and doesn't expose her to ridicule the way that an overreaching, Jolie-esque, "humanitarian" patronage might.

re the story at r386, the US weekly report (their cover story): how is it that she has 'no voice' - ? Like she can't speak to her own husband, or his father (essentially, their boss) about how she feels? Please. "She’s always been so independent, her entire life, and that’s all been taken away from her." Mary! as we say here. Is she stuck in a cage at KP?

"She’s always been able to clap back on social media and now she can’t." - well then THERE'S the rub. She can't shoot off her thoughts on Ig or Twitter or her blog whenever she wants. Why not? Because she's now a ROYAL, hello. She knew she'd have no more use of these venues, after her marriage. She voluntarily joined a family-run, powerful corporate institution, but now wonders why she cant insult it and her bosses in public. Did she have this option in her prior career, spatting publicly with her employers? It beggars belief.

These sympathy grabs - if in fact they're true, I have a hard time believing as its so inane - will backfire spectacularly. Did she read up on Diana, did she learn nothing about her experience in that family? Capitalizing on public popularity for personal or internal gain is surefire road out the door.

I'm beginning to see the pov of some of the more extreme ideas floated here, that this entire marriage on her end was a deliberate ploy for enhanced fame and set up for further stages and movements, outside of Harry and the BRF. It just keeps getting weirder.

Huge red flag if someone abuses waitstaff, service people, or personal staff. Almost always indicates a trashy upbringing.

An average middle class kid (suddenly thrust into the BRF) would probably err on the side of being meek with the staff. It takes a real trash bag to go from nothing to abusing staff.

Of course you see this all the time on a smaller scale with people being rude to servers in restaurants, etc.

Re treatment of staff...

I remember reading a book long ago about a long term employee of the White House.

Among the tidbits I remember ...

1. Bess Truman hated the White House and would often go back to Independence, Missouri for a break. Upon her return, the next morning, President Truman had to embarrassingly ask the staff to repair the First Couple's broken bed.

2. President Eisenhower's valet used to hold his shorts for the President to step into them.

3. Queen Elizabeth (and I assume Prince Phillip) stayed at the White House during a visit to the USA. One night of their visit was a huge state banquet that ran very late. The Queen had dismissed her staff so that they did not have to wait up for her. The next morning, found on a chair in the Queen's room were all her clothes from the previous night, neatly folded, jewelry on top of clothes, with her crown sitting on top of the pile.

Given the Queen's own behavior, I would think that abuse and misbehavior toward staff would rank very high on her list of very unacceptable behavior.

[quote]The next morning, found on a chair in the Queen's room were all her clothes from the previous night, neatly folded, jewelry on top of clothes, with her crown sitting on top of the pile.

This is a charming detail.

R398 - yeah, that sounds like something the Queen would do.

Now her son is not cut from the same cloth as his mother.

You know, the spoiled, selfish one who gets his manservant to put toothpaste on his toothbrush.

Re: how one treats domestic staff as an indicator of what type of person you are

I had two great aunts who did have live in staff. When we stayed with either, we children were taught never to ask staff to do what we could do ourselves, never to leave a mess thinking someone will clean it up for us, never be underfoot, and to always say please when asking for something and thank you when given it. Simple good manners.

There was also this little tidbit I remember from childhood - “a gentleman isn’t a gentleman (or a lady isn’t a lady) unless his bed is made by noon.” While I’ve relaxed this rule for myself as an adult, I’m sure it’s why I make my bed everyday.

It is very telling how another treats others.

R395, do you think it’s “extreme” to think that MM is using her current status to move up another rung on the ladder?

I think it’s quite evident that it’s her MO, based on her past.

I wonder if the staff try on the crown(s) when no one is around? I would find it hard to resist.

Here’s a great article about the journalist who went undercover as a footman. In case you can’t see the article because you’ve used up all your free NYT articles, here’s the gist:

- Prince Andrew has a pillow in his room that says “Eat, Drink, Remarry”. When he’s served his tea in the morning, he’s sometimes cranky and tells the staff to F off. He likes to play pranks on the staff and hides around a monkey to be found. Staff are told not to dither in his presence because they might annoy him.

- Queen Elizabeth eats the same breakfast every morning: oatmeal and cornflakes in Tupperware. Prince Philip must read The Racing Post.

- The Queen eats dinner in front of the telly sometimes, and she likes the soap opera EastEnders

- Prince Charles only wears ironed pajamas and his toothpaste has a turnkey

- Servants have to walk on the side of the carpet lest they wear out the threads. When a royal approaches, they must stand against the nearest wall and bow

- The Queen prefers toast with light marmalade and feeds it to her corgis

- Sophie eats breakfast alone and likes white wine at dinner

- Princess Anne needs a black banana and a ripe kiwi in her fruit tray. She’s also known to curse at staff who mess up. She once called someone a “fucking incompetent tw*t”

-Wessexes are pleasant and laid back with footmen; Prince Andrew is demanding and abrasive. Andrew is known for yelling at staff

- Staff rooms are basic with a bed, desk, wardrobe and sink. Showers and toilets are communal

"An average middle class kid (suddenly thrust into the BRF) would probably err on the side of being meek with the staff. It takes a real trash bag to go from nothing to abusing staff. "

Many middle class kids are rude, demanding and abusive to people all the time. Horrible people exist in every class.

There’s a great show on amazon prime that’s called Manor House, about a group of people who spend 3 months living in an Edwardian manor house and have to adhere to the rules of that time. They have a regular middle class family as a the wealthy family and regular people as servants. It’s a great look into how people can change so quickly once they receive money, status, and servants.

I finally got around to watching the full fashion awards video. Interesting that the gut-clutching commenced the second Clare Waight Keller started speaking.

Communal showers and toilets? Dear god, it's a wonder anyone wants those jobs, R403.

[quote]do you think it’s “extreme” to think that MM is using her current status to move up another rung on the ladder? I think it’s quite evident that it’s her MO, based on her past.

R401, I'm not R395, but I'm astonished by the theory that Meghan thinks there's another rung yet to climb, and that it's somehow within her grasp. That she could possess such a degree of self-confidence almost beggars belief.

I did watch Manor House awhile back, very interesting. The scullery maids kept quitting and rightfully so, what a horrendous job.

[quote][R395], do you think it’s “extreme” to think that MM is using her current status to move up another rung on the ladder? I think it’s quite evident that it’s her MO, based on her past.

It is in light of the fact that she is now a member of one of the most powerful families on earth. It may well be her standing MO, but who paid attention to how she treated her former hs or college classmates, or fellow Suitcase Girls on DoND, or colleagues on a B-list basic cable tv show. She's in a whole other rarefied league - one with the power to really hurt her - so yes, I find it surprising.

R409 Are there stories from Deal or No Deal girls and Meghan's college classmates? I know her siblings hate her and there's the whole deal with her father, but I haven't been following this for long so I must have missed the college stories.

I was using those as examples of her past involvements r410, noting none were public or high profile. There are the stories told by her former close hs friend Ninaki, although some say she may have had an axe to grind.

Have you had enough yet, MEghan? Time to buy the ticket and RUN!!!!!! They don't want you and is Harry really worth all that abuse? You will NEVER get to wear the Lover's Knot, those crazy Granny Rocks or even buy a corgi - RUN RUN RUN, run now while you still have ankles. Brits don't cradle bumps! Brits don't like your demanding, American ass - RUN now, while you still can and before they sell you off to the Caribbean!

What's the problem? Is her belly going to fall off?

She isn't holding it like pregnant women do, they don't hold it like that. She is posing with it like Vanna White would do.

That's a good point, R410. I wonder why we haven't heard more gossip from the people who knew her in college? Surely they have some tales to tell.

And I agree with R370:

[quote]I'd like to hear more about the Foreign Service uncle who secured Me's internship in Argentina -- how come he has been shunned?

Why, indeed? He seems like he would be perfectly on-brand for her. U.S. Foreign Service jobs, for those of you posters who are from England, are deadly competitive: Fewer than 3% of applicants make it through the grueling, multipart examination and interviewing process. It's quite a prestigious career.

Run MEghan, RUN! See what's happening? Kate drives a car and you're cradling your damn bump....this isn't looking good, gurl. Time to call the uncle in Argentina and take that test. You'll qualify now, for EVERYTHING!

He's going bald, anyway. Run like hell and don't look back! DO EET NOW!

I thought Sparkle failed the exam.

The initial story was that she got the internship even though she applied after the deadline because of her uncle. Whenever I hear stories like this (not just about Sparkle) I always wonder about the serious, hardworking, sincere candidates for the internship who were bypassed for someone like her who couldn't be bothered to apply on time.

Did she FAIL the exam? Oh well, this BRF gig is better. And getting the internship thru channels -- pfft, it parallels Haz refusing to take the officer exam, and then grandmum giving him the appointment anyway. You all who work for your shit are suckers.

Diana didn't enjoy country pursuits. She pretended she did. Probably better than has been advertised - there are photos on the web of her on horseback in company of the queen and others. But she was in no way as horsey as Camilla, who just loves it and still rides.

I bet people in college have sold their tales, and various media are sitting on the stories. They've got books in mind, they've got the media cycle to milk. They don't want to dump it all now. Wait til she really builds a case for herself as being crazy as a bed bug. The belly cradling at the awards with the oh so gracious demeanor and madonna expression as if she'd done something other than hook a dimwit booze-addled balding misfit ginger prince was unbelievable. Her Boswell, Omid Scobie, keeps referring to her on twitter as "Duchess Meghan" and nothing else. She clearly wants to be colloquial, with the "Duchess" pasted in front of her name for eternity, like "Princess Harry" and "Queen Elizabeth." Lady Colin Cambpell, a crackpot who nevertheless outed Diana's bulimia and affair with James Hewitt before anyone else, has befriended Diana's nephew and is accumulating family stories. She says there's a whole lot that hasn't come out yet. I think people have received their checks, and those who paid for the info are figuring out the timing as to when best to detonate their bombs. Andrew Morton, that sycophant, was an idiot to get out there so early. Did his book even sell?

R240 - Rosamund looks the picture of grace and decorum. And then there’s crazy, ‘I’m so sincere and wide eyed and innocent’ eyes double cupping her belly.

The next rung to climb is for Meghan to be a global superstar / celebrity in her own right, with her independence. Harry and the BRF made her famous worldwide, then she takes that and is her own Duchess Meghan brand after she bolts. I think the only problem is she's not getting the money she thought she'd get. An "insider" on another forum said they knew someone who did business with Jessica Mulroney, and Jessica Mulroney does have a deal with Meghan - as if we all can't see that - and gets a cut of when Meghan wears stuff via Mulroney. BUT she didn't know if Meghan got a cut. That was interesting. If only Jessica did, then it might be to repay everything Jessica did for Meghan, which included associating with her to raise her profile, and Meghan may still be in debt. I think Jessica let Meghan couch surf with her during the Harry puruist, which Meghan is loathe to acknowledge.

R421 - I have noticed that Harry frequently alludes to "my wife" but Meghan is always touted before Harry and often her shit is publicized while barely mentioning him, if at all.

Leave that family now, Meghan AND Harry! Those cunts don't deserve you! They're jealous of all your popularity and the fun you get to have that they don't! RUN NOW! You'll be rich and famous in America and after that old bat dies, the most popular Royals in the world! RUN RUN RUN!

So I was browsing online for a Funko Pop for my brother for Christmas, and I stumbled upon this:

[quote] Her candle may have burned out, but her legend never will! Even though she’s no longer with us, we still can’t forget the warmth that the beloved Princess of Wales brought to the world. This is why we’re so happy to offer this beautiful Princess Diana Pop! Vinyl.

If you're looking for an exceptionally tacky stocking filler, you can grab this for the low, low price of £14.99!

[quote]And, Lady C. is afraid of nobody and nothing.

She's got balls.

I think I read somewhere that Sparkle did not finish the Embassy internship. There has been so much since then, that bit may have been overlooked.

"Balls!" said the Queen. "If I had them I'd be Lady Colin Campbell."

I have no sympathy for Meghan if she really is frustrated over not being able to speak for herself.

She’s pushing 40. She’s not 22, naive, and on cloud nine believing “love conquers all.” She’s lived enough to know what’s what. She would have to be a complete moron, or the most arrogant person in history, to think she was going to revamp and shake up a thousand+ year old institution. She’s old enough to know real life isn’t a RomCom and this isn’t going to end with a tight shot of her winking to the camera after her adorable have the reservered matriarch dancing the Macarena at her adorablely unruly child’s birthday party.

The older we get, the more set in our ways we get. We become less willing to compromise and start to realize that being solo and doing whatever the hell we want isn’t necessarily horrible. We know enough to be pickier about what we’ll compromise on.

[quote]She’s pushing 40. She’s not 22, naive, and on cloud nine believing “love conquers all.” She’s lived enough to know what’s what. She would have to be a complete moron, or the most arrogant person in history, to think she was going to revamp and shake up a thousand+ year old institution.

This. Bears. Repeating. Over and over. ^^

Okay, I’m the one who thinks Harry is just a stop on her journey. She’s not sticking around. My theory is that she will use her position to meet some really rich dude who will give her the freedom to behave the way she wants to. Although she’s older and saddled with a kid, she is adjacent to royals and she’ll have a bit of a title. Some slightly déclassé bazillionaire.

Kind of like when Jackie Kennedy went on assistance. Onassis was kind of a vulgar dude, but she just wanted the money and protection. Or whatever Serena Williams’ deal is with that Reddit dude.

I could be wrong, but I just don’t see her sticking it out for the long haul in the BRF. She’s on the lookout for serious money, and if she could land a prince, she can probably still get some sheik or Russian oligarch.

r430 I buy it. She will end up with someone very rich, as you said perhaps middle eastern royalty or a Russian billionaire oligarch. But what would that mean for her public profile, her reputations as an 'influencer' -? Cause I think that's what she's really after, as r421 put it, the global influence and fame. A la Serena W, Oprah, Amal Clooney etc.

Hooking up with a tacky Eastern European shady type or a sheik may be boost her profile in the way she'd like. It will give her financial security, but negatively impact her penetration of the circles she wants desires entry to. She'll end up like Wendi Deng, only without the ferocious thick skin that one has to slag off criticism (I don't think MM is that tough) - she'll have plenty of celebrity and B-list socialite pals, but will wander the fringe of the respectable circles she craves.

[quote]She would have to be a complete moron, or the most arrogant person in history, to think she was going to revamp and shake up a thousand+ year old institution.

I don't think she's a moron.

I think Meghan Markle is seriously crazy. Jodi Arias-adjacent. Maybe not a murderess, but just absolutely narcissistic. They are VERY bad actors in public (and in private if you have your eyes open) because they've never felt the motions they are mimicking, so it's always a little OTT. When it's a hot guy or hot woman, their romantic partner is often sucked in BY the OTT. That's the ego and neediness of their target in play. Someone with more maturity would be able to glom onto the deranged part of the person right away. That's why I think she'll have trouble. Jackie O was avaricious and a pain in the ass, and Onassis regretted marrying her because she behaved as if he were just a checkbook, but she wasn't crazy. A lot of trophy type wives, their husbands KNOW their wives wouldn't be with them if they weren't rich, but they accomodate each other and know what each expects from the relationship. I think up around the billionaire set there is plenty of opportunity to have insane sex, paid or unpaid. Nobody wants to pay for crazy, and she's fucking crazy. Anybody who can't see it on that stage with that blank little face and blank rodent eyes, her posing and her absolute insane thirst for the camera lens (she looks into it as she hugs either Claire or Rosemund, can't remember which), and her transparency, is nuts themselves or as pathetic as Harry. Harry's not a billionaire, but how many billionaires, shieks, tycoons, etc. are as pathetic as he is?

LOL, all I know is if I were Meghan I would be pissed. Married to an ugly racist man, criticised for every single thing and unable to respond, having to follow the strictest guidelines... and not even getting her personal tiara or a fabulous country estate to live in? That's just a bad deal.

[quote] Harry's not a billionaire, but how many billionaires, shieks, tycoons, etc. are as pathetic as he is?

lol not many, but there are plenty with huge egos and some will likely be more than willing to take on the former wife of the son of the King of England/UK. It's the cachet; she will always be a former royal or royal-adjacent, more so once Baby Sussex is born.

Many powerful men marry the same women: Onassis and Niarchos, both men and the Duke of Marlborough. Babe Paley, Slim Keith, Marie Harriman were all multiply married or involved with the same circle of men. The british aristocracy is full of examples of women with more than one noble title in life, due to re-marriages (Raine Spencer comes to mind).

It's an ego thing. Even if cut loose in the most spectacular fashion from the BRF, she will have wealthy and/or famous suitors. Note: I didn't say classy or acceptable suitors.

"When it's a hot guy or hot woman, their romantic partner is often sucked in BY the OTT. That's the ego and neediness of their target in play. Someone with more maturity would be able to glom onto the deranged part of the person right away."

This in a nutshell describes the ill fated Jolie-Pitt relationship. And I feel it in my bones that AJ is who Meghan wants to be. Larger-than-life, a globe-trotter who is also Mother Earth, filled with compassion and kindness, whilst being an independent Powerhouse at the same time as she is a sexy BOMBSHELL but is ultimately a devoted wife and mother underneath it all. The exception is that Jolie, despite all HER mental health issues, is a star who is eminently watchable in her PR shenanigans and has been a lot of fun. Meghan will be a sad and paltry facsimile.

^^^the difference is that Jolie (sorry, typo)

R433 Oh dear.

My reaction exactly, R438.

[quote]Maybe not a murderess

I love these threads, but I sometimes worry about our more, shall we say, passionate posters.

Not a murderess by any stretch of imagination but I think R433 meant her narcissism mostly. I don't even know if it's narcissism on her part so much as being out of her depth and out of her league. The PR strategy you used during Suits will not work with the BRF.

R436, yeah, that's how I see the AJ/Pitt relationship as well. But I am telling you, everyone from the aristos to the celebrity set to everyone outside her small circle of hungry Toronto opportunists think of Markle as a joke. I don't think her status is considered "real". Not the way Diana's was, not the way Kate's is, or Camilla's, or Jack Bwhathisname of Eugenie's. She wouldn't be a trophy. Nobody wants Harry's pathetic-ness rubbing off on them, not literally or figuratively. A lot of this is down to Harry. Everybody knows who he is and why he ended up with a pitiful aging striver from the D-list, and has tantrums and sulks and rocks his pram and tosses toys out of it in petulance because everyone can see she's a joke, and he didn't and he wants to demand people take her seriously to enable his idiocy. He may be the grandson of the queen, blah blah, but he's been around quite a long time and I don't think that glitter is really sticking to him. When you're mocked by a couple of Hollywood actresses and dismissed .... I don't think that would happen to WIlliam.

Jackie O knew how to act royal, Diana for all her drama knew how to act royal, ditto Kate, even Zara with no title knows how to put on the clothes and how to behave in church, the polo field, Ascot, events. Markle has never ever once acted royal or if she even had a clue so it's hard to imagine someone wanting her for her silly "title" or her nonexistent royal cred.

I was thinking their kid is doomed, but then remembered Margaret and Anthony Armstrong Jones, both complete narcissistic shits, had a couple of very nice children who grew up to be nice adults for some reason, so maybe the kid isn't doomed.

^^^”even Zara with no title” - having a title is meaningless in this context, Zara is the daughter of The Princess Royal and granddaughter of the Queen. She knows how to behave in any situation because that’s the environment she was born into.

Hell, even some born royals don’t know how to act “Royal”. For example, Prince Andrew.

As the years go on and society progresses, I could see monarchies becoming less and less popular. I think they’ll have to redefine themselves in order to both be relevant to the times and show taxpayers they are worth the expense. I predict it will become less regal and more of a Hollywood existence. Once the Queen passes, I think the fanciness and formality will fade away.

I know I'm harping on ancient news, but I just can't get over how transparent she is. I had to watch it again to be sure, and it is [italic] literally[/italic] the exact moment that the first sound comes out of Clare Waight Keller's mouth.

And then it goes on and on as she shifts her cradlers from position to position as awkwardly as 3-year-old performing at her first ballet recital and trying to follow the moves the teacher is modeling from the aisle in front of the stage. Something is seriously wrong with Bean.

For those who missed the full video, just watch the way her cupping syncs with the CWK's voice at 3:14.

Okay, I'll shut up about it now.

Well, R445, I watched the video and it's more of the "Me, Me, Look over here, see Meeee!!"

Can't tolerate attention on anyone else.

Reminded me of the stunt at Eugenie's wedding.

Very strange.

I just watched the video, R445, and I have to admit that you're right. The cradling is even more exaggerated and bizarre on video than it is in photographs, and it does coincide with the beginning of Clare's speech.

Meghan clearly finds it intolerable when she is not the center of attention. This character trait does not bode well for a supporting member of the royal family.

Diana knew that every lense was focused on her and at least made an attempt to tone it down, back off a tad, and not make it all about her, even though, in the end, it was.

Megs wants every lense focused on her to the exclusion of everyone around her, wants it to be solely about her.

You over-under clutch

You cradle bump below

You rest an arm on top

And you stick your belly out

You do the clutchy gutchy

And you simper like a loon

That's what it's all about

You cradle 'neath the bump

Your T. rex arm goes up

You laugh theatrically

And you stick your belly out

You do the clutchy gutchy

And you simper like a loon

That's what it's all about

Wow, she looks completely crazy in the bump clutching video. I have NEVER seen a pregnant woman standing around grabbing herself like that.

Especially at barely 5 months. Usually not too much going on at that point, and not much of a bump.

On the other hand, she always looks looks like she can’t figure out what to do with her arms. Theyre always floating around awkwardly or else stiffly posed at some weird angle.

What a fucking weirdo.

She has a very odd and calculating look on her face the first time she does the bump grab. Like she’s counting beats in her head or something.

As someone on another thread said, it’s a very showy, presentational look similar to Jolie’s weird leg thrust.

Definitely not an absent minded “oh, i didn’t even realize where my hands were” belly stroking.

While R449 deserves a clutch of WWs for his brilliant lyrics, unfortunately, I can't get that fucking song (with his lyrics of course) out of my head!

Aren’t Brit’s quite formal ? What do they make of Flower’s running around half dressed and grabbing either Harry or herself at all times? Jesus, have some self control and stop squirming lke a toddler.

Ahem, R267. I take exception to the following sentence, "His brother is clearly in love with his wife..."

I would move that Harry is NOT in love with his wife - not even a teensy bit. She knows how to suck industrial strength dong, darling. That's about it.

Meg's narcissism is so obvious. And, apparently shaped like a baby bump.

She's not that much different than Trump.

There's a match made in hell.

Lord and Lady Caligula.

Notice in the video how she makes a point to separate herself from the two of them while Claire is speaking. In normal award show circumstances, she would have placed herself alongside Rosamond behind Claire so as to give her the stage. She puts herself on display during Claire's speech as if she is who they are all there to see. Check out Rosamond's face during all of this and her "what's up with this trick" look. Oh, to be a fly on the wall at the afterparty.

They need to keep her in the tower until she pops out that rugrat. She's beyond embarrassing.

Salve amice R455!

Please do NOT compare me to Trump and/or Meghan Markle.

Gratias ago!

[quote] I don't think her status is considered "real". Not the way Diana's was, not the way Kate's is, or Camilla's, or Jack Bwhathisname of Eugenie's.

Restating because I agree: Meagain has no mystique. No dignity, no reserve, no mystery, no authority, no charisma. She is so obvious in her intend and her ignorance that there is simply nothing there even when as she works so hard to show off.

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[quote]but I suppose you can't really wax a baby.

What planet are you from?

R459 "No dignity, no reserve, no mystery, no authority, no charisma."

If that's the criteria, how did Jack Brooksbank qualify?

That little Louis is a doll. And Charlotte is Miss Personality Plus. Even George is cute, I suppose.

Brooksbank has warmth. He looks like a decent sort. And he's not a member of the Royal Family. He's married to one.

R462- Jack Brooksbank is not a working Senior Royal. Harry's wife has to be, as per Charles' revision of the BRF

R460- I love that the DM finds new ways to cunt off on Harry and MM. This time they've shown the Sussexes somewhat "unconventional" Christmas card with the dark background and fireworks and their backs to the camera, juxtaposed with the Cambridges' and Wales' warm, sunny, smiley cards going back 5 years. SUCH assholes. I love it.

I'm the first to say that I know nothing about kids, but it looks to me like Louis has Downs Syndrome. Anyone?

Wow, I'm not seeing Downs at all. His face looks kind of perfect, in fact.

Meghan separates herself so she doesn't have to share the spotlight, picture editor can get a clear photo just of her. We've seen her do this before in group photos. Have you noticed that her Christmas card with Harry is very similar to her wedding invite with Trevor? Same black and white colour, same rear view of a couple arm in arm looking off into the distance. Would not be surprised if she used the same font.

Nope r467, that’s not a Downs Syndrome baby.

Nah, doesn't look like it, R467. People said this about George and Charlotte also, btw. I think it's a function of the Cambridge kids' chubby cheeks and slightly dopey expressions. If you google the other two kids' younger pictures, they had the same look as Louis. William and Kate are always a little reluctant to photograph their kids when young so it eggs this kind of speculation even more.

[quote]it's a function of the Cambridge kids' chubby cheeks and slightly dopey expressions

I did Google a George image at the same age and R471's description seems to be spot on. Even though George's eyes seem to be more developed, rounder, than Louis'.

Aren't there tests and things you can do for early detection of downs' syndrome in the fetus? I doubt the BRF would have allowed them to keep it, if so

R473 Interesting you mentioning about the BRF not allowing it to live if it had Downs. I can't remember where I read it, but something similar was said when Zara "miscarried", that Downs was detected in the fetus and it was decided to "miscarry" it.

Awwwwww, Baby George in R472's makes me really broody.

I bet he can be quite a bit of a cheeky devil sometimes. And with a sister not that much younger, he has got a great pal when it comes to playing tricks and being little rascals.

Notice that George is pictured wearing normal trousers.

This is a detail that might not be that much worth mentioning, but imho it's pretty telling they decided not to put him in these upper-class boys' shorts.

You all may disagree, but I think William is hot in the Christmas card picture R460 gives us. I'd do him.

Don't get me started on 'the other one' - you know, the one Dimwit and Merchin' Megsy published.

They're milking their wedding - again.

But at least we got spared a pic of Meggers cradling her bump.

I too think William looks v good. He's lost a little weight and it suits him. The kids are adorable, Kate is insanely happy -- it bodes well for the future.

If the story is true that MeAgain pissed off Charlotte, and I enjoy believing it, then you in danger.

Right, R479? That's fucking great, because Charlotte definitely looks like she inherited a bit of Princess Anne's no bullshit type personality!

The one Dimwit and Merching Meg published woud've been a nice pic for a thank you card for those people who sent them their best wishes when they got married.

But there's nothing - NOTHING - 'christmas-ey' about it.

Oh, it's just to prove that Muck and Hairs are flirting with paganism or some fucking garbage. It's artsy. That's all we need to know.

There sure isn't r481 It looks weirdly funeral too. They could have done some nice red and green tinting at least. Also, backs to their well wishers? Not a great look. They couldn't even put together an actual Christmas card? They had to recycle something from the wedding photos? I am shocked she wouldn't have wanted one with her featured in FULL CLUTCH mode.

Paganism or whatever, only super beautifully curated with an eye to feature in the blog. But why then marry in a Christian church with the mega pretend-virgin veil? Woulda been better Kat Von D style Full Clutch with burning skulls and hiney tails.

Busy day has allowed others to get ahead of me in conveying something of a sense of shock at the Sussex's Christmas card.

The contrast between the Sussex greeting, exaggeratedly cinematic (remove Harry and you've got a reverse race Scarlett O'Hara alone against the sunset at Tara at the end of GWTW), with their fucking BACKS to the viewer, and the relaxed lovely family smiling out at the viewer on the Cambridge's holiday greeting, tells you everything you need to know about Meghan Markle, how she sees herself, and her complete lack of understanding of what it means to be a representative of the royal family.

Whether or not the couple meant it consciously, their backs turned to the viewer sends a message that can't possibly be mistaken by anyone, except, of course, poor dim Harry.

I wonder if there is another subliminal message in this image that Harry does understand: "It's just us against the world, we hate you, we give you our backs, and we're going to be going it alone."

R467 - Not remotely. And if he were, the family would have announced it, as there would have been no way that could have been kept under wraps as the child matured. All pregnant women 35 and over have amniocentesis to detect Down's, among other issues, and either the family would have announced it before the birth, and made a huge deal of their nobility in keeping and raising it, or Kate would have had a discreet miscarriage.

There is no way to hide Down's. If Louis had been, it would have been all over the wires.

He is, though, the image of his mother.

So what exactly is the message that H&M are sending with their, um, Christmas card?

I have no idea what her wedding invite with Trevor looked like. Anyone have a link?

If Meghan is Angelina style in her narcissism, it will be interesting to see her relationship with the child play out in the future. Narcissistic parents tend to only have use for you when you’re making them look better or suitably propelling their agenda (ie pawn in a divorce).

My dad “adored” all his children right up to the age each had their own opinion and stopped mimicking his thoughts or believing in his greatness. It was like a switch flipped and we ceased to exist (except in times of dramatics where he could manipulate). Once adults, this continued until the minute one of us looked like we might be choosing a bragably suitable career - then he was over the top again in adoration. He wanted to brag and take credit. If the path or plan changed, we again were not worth his time.

R462 - Brooksbank is not a royal; he has no title; he does not represent the BRF. Meghan Markle got an HRH, is married to a man who is the younger son of the next King of Great Britain and Northern Ireland; is sent out to represent the BRF; is being given a home that will be renovated by British taxpayers' money; and gets a cut of the Sovereign Grant to pay for expenses associated with her "official duties" including a private secretary. There is not remotely a comparison between the standing of the two.

I don’t think those are their cards. I may have misread the article but I thought it said these were “backstage “ photos being shared prior to the cards. I don’t know how that works though so maybe I misunderstood.

Louis is going to look just like his mama, except he did get William's nose. Charlotte looks more Windsorian by the minute.

George is a cute kid, but good Lord, he pings from space.

For uan object lesson in how confirmation bias works, a review of the fraus' reception of the cards on CB shows everyone just LOVING the Sussex card because the fireworks are so festive and they seem so in lurve . . . and not a word about the fact that the couple's backs are turned to the viewer.

In the Middle East, those turned backs would have resulted in mobs with pitchforks and torches descending on Nott Cott.

Ginger Megs will do the cute family Xmas card next year. If Megs is still around.

It's really odd that Meghan and Harry are using a wedding photo from months ago for their Christmas card, as if that's the only interesting or important thing they did all year. It also contrasts really, really badly with the Cambridges' and the Wales's cards.

Next year, Meghan and Harry will do a card that looks much like the Cambridges this year: Natural setting, everyone in jeans and jumpers.

Kate and William will flip the script and do something more formal, just to show up the Sussexes.

This crazy competition will go on for YEARS.

Link to Meghan's Jamaican beach wedding, replete with details on the wedding 'games' on the beach. Thomas Markle's last DM interview also carried the wedding itinerary which had stuff like "yoga on the beach with Meghan's mom" on the card and party favours in the welcome basket. A medal to the queens from DM for their stellar investigative skills!

Is that her ex in the picture above? He looks a bit like Harry.

At least the Sussex card didn't feature any bump cradling...

RUN MEghan! Have you not seen these posts? Cupping your belly is a far worse crime than covering up a pedophile uncle, another pedo uncle, a cheating, home wrecking 'princess' with horse teeth and attitude, a future "queen" who plotted against the mother of the future King, a bunch of middle-class up-jumped party planners planting stories in the press (gurl, you better just be quiet in those august halls of entrenched power), and a FIL and GFIL who both cheated, excessively, on their wives. Harry will do the same. RUN!!!! RUN NOW!

What does a 4-day wedding "bash" in Jamaica cost and, since Megs had just gotten her first serious acting gig, who paid for it? Anyone?

Yeah, that's the ex husband R498. The chef, the boyfriend before Harry was absolutely gorgeous

The wedding costs were partly covered by Papa Markle, acc to his latest DM blab fest. Dont know about who paid for the rest but the producer husband seems like a good bet?

I love the Run Meghan Run troll. Missed you darling. Actually, truth be told she SHOULD run.

I like to lurk a bit before posting, R504, but thank you. LOVE these threads.

Megs lasted two years with 1st hubby Trevor, two years with Cory Vitiello (pictured) before she dumped him for Ginger. Pattern? Divorce rumblings about April, May 2020?

Interestingly, two years is about the amount of time it takes sexual infatuation to cool off into, hopefully, romantic affection. If the couple is truly suited, anyway.

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I agree, R508, MEghan needs to RUN BACK to that hunk. Harry and all the negative exposure isn't worth it.

She would never have had a shot at William, but he's a creepy thing as it is. Cute kid who grew up to be a bitter, entitled, spoiled little shit who married his perfect partner - a simpering fool who HATEs the commons. She tries to hide it and fails. Those kids are doomed to complete assholery for the rest of their lives. At least Harry is somewhat relatable to the masses. The British people seem very protective of him.

[quote]The British people seem very protective of him.

Because he acts like the 12 year old Brits still see him as.

R431 - The only problem with the theory of Harry just being a stepping stone for Meghan to move on to someone/something BIGGER and BETTER, is the fact that if she marries anyone else, she won't be HRH The Duchess of Sussex. The title is lost.

There is no family who are more famous, prestigious and connected than the British Royal Family. Even the other Royal families in the world bow down to the Brits (the Queen is especially esteemed).

So Meghan can marry an Russian Oligarch or a Middle Eastern guy if she wants to but she's not going to get the exposure, the access and the fame that she receives now being a member of the House of Windsor.

I think, Run Meghan Run troll, it's because when the british fraus look at him they remember the 12 year old Hazza, clasping his hands and walking behind his mother's coffin. A heartbreaking image even for Yours Truly, who has the heart of a gherkin.

R511 - I agree with your assessment. Meghan Markle is no Diana Spencer by any measure - beauty, charisma, global adoration, pedigree, and royal status in the hierarchy. Yet even the former Princess of Wales, the castoff of the next British monarch, didn't get Diana a decent second chance. The chances for a more brilliant (third) match for the sloppy seconds of the sixth in line, by then aged forty-something and toting two small children who really belong to the BRF, would be much slimmer.

R509 and R510 William seems nice and sensible but very reserved, too reserved to be loved by the masses. I always think of my siblings, both older than me. Brother is an extrovert and a total mess but that messiness endears him to everyone and even when he behaves like an asshole, people think of him as a loveable scamp. The sister on the other hand is very reserved, cerebral and sensible but also incredibly sincere in her personal relationships. I have never seen her throw a fit or be a cunt and she is absolutely lovely to everyone, without being exuberant. But she is not beloved by our common circle, just respected. It baffles me but the world is stacked against introverts, isn't it?

They’re gonna have their hands full with Charlotte when she grows up .

William isn't an introvert, R514. His temper tantrums are legendary.

AND HE WILL BE IN CHARGE someday, MEghan. RUN, gurl, RUN! The future King hates you! You made his little girl cry and his wife upset at looking lazy in comparison. RUN NOW, while you still can!

Quick review of comments on the DM (accounting for the general outlook of its readership) show a fair number taking a dim view of a holiday greeting card with backs to the recipients - which in this case, includes the British taxpayers supporting their luxurious lifestyle and who laid out millions of quid for the security at that very wedding.

Talk about tone-deaf.

I'd give a good deal to be able to read the Queen's and Charles's minds on that card.

I know R516. It's not looking good for her is it? i wonder why MM didnt suck up to William in anticipation of the future?

R516 - Yes, Meghan, run! With all your cagey PR posing and nasty leaks to Lainey, you still came out behind Kate and William in the popularity polls! Everyone knows you threw a temper tantrum over a tiara at the Queen! They've booted you out of one of the world's most exciting capitals and fobbed you off with a dull dump in suburb 30 miles from London! It's a dump compared to the mansion the Queen gave the Cambridges and whose renovations she spent her own money on! The Queen didn't even let you stand on the balcony with her on Remembrance Day in payment for that tantrum and trying to upstage her beloved granddaughter at said granddaughter's wedding!

They hate your trashy limelight seeking "having" guts and they will continue to marginalise you and Harry and your offspring.

Persuade Harry to waive his place in the of succession and get yourselves back to L.A. - where we both know you really belong.

R516 Run Meghan Run, I didnt mean William is blameless, I know he is known to be quite grand. But he is also sensible. Harry is a well-documented mess. But still quite loved as opposed to Wills, who is still quite respected with the hoi polloi

***who is not loved, merely respected by the hoi polloi (typo)

I think they she was trying to subliminally remind people of the most popular tweet ever (at the time).

A close up of Baby Louis.

I don't know why I'm getting sucked into this and letting it bother me so much! I'm getting sick of kaiser and lainey acting like meghan is some superior being and shes rightfully going to screw with everyone. Lainey called her a big time celebrity who the courtiers should be afraid of in her article today. What the fuck?!

The more people become anti will and Kate, the more I support them and hope they come out the winners. They've become the underdogs for me. I'm failing to see what they are doing that makes them villians and what Harry and meghan are doing that makes them saints according to cb.

The fact that we are talking about meghan, she's getting any attention is exactly what she wants. She's a narcissistic sociopath who's loving everthing that's happening. I believe all that rumors about a royal fued and its all her. I truly think she hates will and Kate, judges them and is dripping poison in Harry's ear and exacerbating the work shy comments. She wants to be queen and i wouldn't be surprised if she has some grand plan to make will and Kate be put aside and her and Harry take the throne. I think she actively plans things to make Kate look bad and herself look better I. E speeches, pda, getting closer to Charles etc. Harry and William love each other and I hate that she's gotten in between their relationship and has her media lackeys adding fuel to the fire and having people demonise William. She's celebritifying the whole thing and bloggers like kaiser are loving it not understanding its not how to succeed in the Royal family. I'm not going to comment their becuase it's a pointless exercise. Argh! I hate that I'm caring so much about this and I'm becoming nasty in that I want meghan to suffer and come crashing down hard and to be exposed for the villian she truly is.

A close up of cheeky Charlotte.

Louis better save up for some lips.

Close up of George and William.

R526 - I believe Louis is teething so is sucking in his lips.

There is a certain habit in the Cambridge family.

Kate looks great. And very happy with her little family.

It looks like Charlotte is the only child with the Windsor blue eyes. The boys have the Middleton brown eyes.

All in good fun, bitches.....none of this is really very important when you consider the bigger picture of what we're facing. I doubt the BRF is ignorant and will probably survive the coming crisis of climate. WWII this will not be and basements will not be sufficient.

Bottom line for me is that this chic knew what THAT skeevy family was like: Fergie? really? LOL, and Phillip the cheater, Middleton pedo uncle, Andrew the pedo, Eugie the gay party girl, Bea the homewrecker, Willie the entitled brat.....etc. I have to laugh at the fool who didn't know about Will's bitch....thinking that having two kids was what kept her out of mistress contention. Obviously knows nothing about the protocol of being mistress material only AFTER you've given the legit' husband an heir or two. Look to Camilla's history if you doubt it.

The BRF got what they deserved with this one. I hope she makes them pay royally, and not just with cash. She will, before she RUNS like hell away from those fake assholes.

Charlotte is SO CUTE. Has she inherited Diana's side-eyed signature look too? She's so precious.

LOL @ Louis' lips. He has Kate's gypsy eyebrows.

Lainey's a fool. Seriously, what is a blogger sitting in Toronto supposed to be in on? She is at the epicentre of Nothingville. Her favourites are also incredibly random, usually based on access. But at least it's readable. Celebitchy is too busy with all the virtue signalling going on betwixt the fraus to come up with a coherent thought. It's all ANGIE GODDESS, BRAD ABUSER and MEGHAN GODDESS KATE CUM DUMPSTER/MATTRESS. Written for women who have just discovered feminism in their freshman year.

I see R532 that you didnt include Harry in your list of fuckups. Must've been an oversight. Irregardless, he is the one who is going to primarily "pay royally" at the hands of the narcissist, every miserable day, for the rest of his life. And the children too, who didnt ask for any of it.

R536 And, I see that you have difficulty with the written English language. You meant to say "regardless," I'm certain, as "irregardless" is incorrect. Very unfortunate.

Charles and Camilla have put out some really sweet Christmas cards in the past few years, always featuring a photo of them together, looking relaxed and happy. The card from 2015 showed them being downright cuddly (for them!)

I wonder what kind of card Harry and Meghan could have put out this year that would have been well received? The DM readers hate this year's card, which references the overexposed wedding, self-celebratory fireworks. DM commenters are interpreting the backs-to-camera symbolism very negatively. So what should they have done? A photo of the two of them sitting side by side outdoors? Cradling the bump?

I come here for rants like R524. That level of irrational anger gives me the chuckles.

R536, I think the children will be fine. Margaret and Antomy Armstrong-Jones's daughter Sarah Chatto seems to be lovely and well adjusted and she's raised very hot, biracial (!!!!) boys.

Antony*

This is my opinion so here goes. The contrast between the Cambridge and Sussex Christmas cards is quite telling.

Harry & Meghan = black & white, sleek, overly stylish, formal, Hollywood glamor, backs to the camera suggests "we'll do things our own way and fuck off to those who don't like it" , fireworks in the background gives me two impressions: celebrating themselves which narcissists love to do and an even stronger vibe that this marriage will be tumultuous and may go up in smoke.

Will & Kate = colorful, informal, friendly, down-to-earth, smiling family snap. They have their shit together and they're lives in order. A rock solid and stable quintet. This family is the future of the monarchy.

Hell, even I have to admit that the Charles and Camilla photograph is beautiful and appropriate and I'm not a fan of either one.

R536 hope the kids dont suffer, but i have seen terrible treatment by narcs. They are used as bargaining chips and to leverage. Irregardless i dont envy them having Mega Meg as mommy.

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r540 here, sorry to amend my post- Sarah Chatto's kids are not biracial, I was thinking of Lady Davina Lewis, the Duke of Gloucester

Duke of Gloucester's daughter

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William and Kate's Christmas card photo is a huge improvement over last year's image. Charles and Camilla look quite lovely. Meghan and Harry's photo fits the glamorous/ modern image they're going for. I like it but I also agree with those who think an image of their backs may be too much for many monarchists.

I'm sure there are threads for Angie and Brad. Keep that out of here R547

My apologies R549, I will abide

Can someone confirm I’m correct in my memory of the tiara kerfuffle? From what I remember, Queen laid out a few and said “you may use any of these” but Megs wanted the one Eugenie would wear? Was there a scene? For some reason I’m remembering Megs making Harry go to the Queen to get the tiara she wanted, again with no joy.

I do think anyone who makes announcements like “we’re pregnant” or “we just got engaged” at another’s wedding are vile and classless. It is not always about you! The announcement could have waited a day.

Gary Lewis, Lady Davina’s husband, is only part Maori so are their children truly biracial or just multi racial? Not that it matters, Gary is (or at least was last pic I saw) quite the looker, and the children are cuties.

I always thought the two best looking male members of the BRF’s latest generation were Peter Philips (the Princess Royal’s son), and Alexander, Earl of Ulster (Davina’s older brother and heir to the dukedom). Any goss on either of these two?

R539, I can't agree more! This thread makes me laugh almost daily, what with the massive number of royal experts we're lucky to have here on DL.

The Sussex card looks like a Disneyland wedding shot. It's not very appropriate for a Christmas card but then these two seem to live in an alternative universe from the rest of the family.

Oh, shut it, R552. There's no need for this misguided snark, nobody's an expert on anything on DL except for pointless bitchery. If you're looking for historical accuracy and subject expertise, might I suggest something a little more high minded? I would start with Joanna Denny's Anne Boleyn: A New Life of England’s Tragic Queen to see how the tone was set and supplement it with David Starkey's Crown and Country: A History of England through the Monarchy for an overview. We can discuss some more trope-wise recommendations once you're done. But leave the rest of us to it, ok?

The blur between royalty and show biz continues with Eugenie and singer Ellie Goulding.

This celebrity obsession among the younger royals may turn out to be the death knell of the Royal Family. Only time will tell.

Charles is pictured with Diana and the Spencers. I bet that didn't happen very often.

Rumor or the truth?

What was Charles's relationship like with Charles Spencer? Did Di have any support from her siblings as her marriage broke down? Area William and Harry close to Diana's sisters?

R552 My favorite experts are those who know the royals thoughts and unstated beliefs or those who have "insider" information from other websites.

R554, I'm absolutely leaving the snarky, mean-spirited, misguided, made up stories to you. Carry on! They're hilarious!

R558 - Charles used to date Diana's older sister Lady Sarah Spencer so reunions may have been awkward.

Lady Jane Spencer's husband used to be the Queen's Private Secretary for years so Charles would probably have had more contact with her through the years.

I don't think Charles was very close to Diana's brother especially after his scathing rebuke of the Royal Family at Diana's funeral.

As far as Will and Harry are concerned, they see the Spencers at family occasions like weddings but I don't think they're really close. Of course, they could all get together privately as a family and the general public wouldn't know about it. For example, no one really knows how often Will and Harry have visited their mother Diana's grave at the Spencer estate of Althorp.

R557 - that’s correct, but misleading. In a throwback to old school English country house weekends, married ladies are served breakfast on a tray in their rooms while the men and single ladies breakfast in the dining room. So yes, technically they will not spend the morning together, it’s really a misleading click bait article.

R551, the tiara incident actually turned out to be worse than we had imagined: It was not Eugenie's Greville that Meghan demanded to wear. It was, rather, the Vladimir.

What must be understood is how inappropriate the Vladimir was for Meghan, on every possible level. First, the Vladimir is currently in use by the Queen herself. Second, it is a grand tiara. It would have been too grand even for Kate upon her marriage to the future king, let alone for a divorcée marrying the 6th in line. Third, for the reasons stated above, it would not have been among the tiaras offered to Meghan by the Queen. Her Majesty's staff would have presented Meghan with a selection of more modest tiaras, such as the Halo that Kate ultimately chose to wear.

What this means is that, rather than honoring tradition and choosing from the tiaras that she was offered, Meghan independently researched the Queen's collection and announced that she wanted the Vladimir. When she was told "no" by the Queen, she and Harry hit the roof. This is what led to Harry's infamous outburst of, "What Meghan wants, Meghan gets!" In the end, he was reprimanded privately by the Queen for his and his wife's behavior.

That Meghan so much as contemplated wearing this tiara is astonishing.

R563 There is no reason to believe it was the Vladimir. The Maria Fedorova Tiara is much more likely.

I think the Greville tiara would have looked the best. But the bandeau was also stunning.

Here’s a throwback of Diana and Sarah at Sandringham for Christmas

R563 - yeah, the fucking nerve of the woman. I blame Harry for allowing his wife to dominate and pussy whip him. He seems to be increasing her already over-inflated ego and self-importance with phrases like "What Meghan wants, Meghan gets". Maybe they'll be calling a daughter Lola (some of you may get it).

Ultimately, the art deco tiara she wore was a good match for her dress style.

This story that you guys have created for yourselves is amazing. Do you believe it, really?

Thank you R563! Can you just imagine the Vladimir with the sloppy bun and dangling tendrils? Quelle horreur!

R564, this is from Robert Jobson's new book, and it was discussed on one of our previous threads. We, too, had all previously assumed it was the Greville or the Feodorovna bandeau.

R567, yes and there are good reasons to do so.

Now fuck off, sugarbabe.

I dont know which tiara it was but I remember there was conjecture that it was a tiara with Russian roots and while Meghan was originally allowed to wear it, the Russian poisonings around March complicated things. It was simply "bad optics" as they say for Meghan to use it in a heavily televised wedding. I don't think there was a very big fuss about it from anyone, if you read the fine print of articles on Tiaragate but it was a politically sensitive matter and that's the reason Her Majesty's office was involved in actively vetoing it.

R567 I have to agree with you. I’m getting Meghan fatigue, and not because of Meghan, but because of posts where people compare her to Jodi fucking Arias. Nothing funnier than someone calling Meghan deranged and delusional (she could be, I don’t know) and then writing paragraphs of how they KNOW what's REALLY going down in the palace. This thread is starting to remind me of those WebSleuth fraus who always believe they are “cracking the case!”

You know what I'd like to know? How was Phil treated by the public and the press at the time? He was a grifter with baggage so large, he makes Meghan look like child's play. Even with the Dickie Mountbatten connection, he harpooned a whale, with no family, no wealth and FREAKING NAZIS IN HIS FAMILY!!! How did he do it?

Young Harry, Eugenie, Beatrice and William

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R573 I’d like to know about this too. I’m assuming they just thought it better to let Elizabeth marry for love and that Philip wasn’t a hopeless cause?

Part 9 at the ready, bitches.

Thank you, BRF Gossip Troll!

And what of this Porchie aka Lord Porchester? Did he really pork the Queen? People SAY Elizabeth has always been this good little girl, as befits the Head of the Church but she is such a mystery in some ways. And I have absolutely no idea how the Queen Mother, the shrewdest of them all, approved Philip. It would be interesting if it was Elizabeth's singular rebellion though. We have no way of knowing, I suppose

Philip was a Prince of Greece and Denmark, was educated in the UK, and had a career in the Navy and served during WWII. He was penniless, but at least was a known quality.

r572 no one here really knows what is 'actually' going on at the Palaces, and you know that. It's all dishy speculation and conjecture, no matter how it's phrased or framed. Stop raining on what's been a great old-school DL thread here. If you want harder facts there are other places for it.

r573 the 'grey men' aka the royal courtiers actually were very hard on him. They didn't trust him or his uncle Dickie at all. George VI supposedly didn't approve of him at all for his daughter/heir, but had to give in since her stubborn attachment wouldn't abate.

r535 that is one of the best descrips of those other blogs I've read in a while. Spot on and funny.

I can see R553 point that Meghan and Harry's photo looks a bit Disneyland but it doesn't seem less "christmas-ey" and a deliberate FU to everyone. William and Kate's Christmas photo last year was taken in the spring. Seems the royals mix it up when it comes to their Christmas cards.

R579 - GVI and QM were not pleased with Elizabeth’s choice of Philip. GVI more so because he had no money or position (a minor princeling), QM due to his Mountbatten and German connections. IIRC, old Queen Mary was the only advocate for them within the BRF. Elizabeth was hopelessly in love and was rumoured to have threatened to formally renounce her place in the succession if she was not allowed to marry Philip.

In a funny twist, QM apparently grew quite fond of Philip after GVI’s death, while Queen Mary began to distrust him and his uncle’s motives when Dickie started referring to “the House of Mountbatten” once GVI died. Queen Mary upon hearing that, summoned Churchill to her residence and sternly reminded him it was her husband who renamed them as the House of Windsor and she expected it to remain under that name. Churchill obeyed and got QEII to make the formal declaration that she and her heirs remain the House of Windsor.

R583 - You can't see the difference??? Well, let me help you, Sugar.

In both Christmas photos, we see the Cambrige smiling faces. In H&M photo, we see the Sussex fat asses.

No need to take that tone, missy. I see the style difference. I disagree that one is more or less Christmas appropriate than the other.

Not everyone who doesn't think Meghan is a sociopath is automatically a Sugar. If you can't stand a difference of opinion maybe you should find a new sandbox to play in.

The Grenadier Guards at Buckingham Palace get into the Christmas spirit.

If Meghan and Harry took a picture smiling by a tree, some people on here would still find an issue with it. I think the picture is fine. Very modern, very cool.

If you read the article it's abut tradition. On Christmas morning the women traditionally have breakfast in bed while the men go down to breakfast together in the dining room. It's all bullshit.

R586 - you don't have to agree with me. What don't you understand about the phrase "this is my opinion"????

Your "tone" is the one that needs modification.

R588 - standing by a tree with their faces shown would be preferable than staring at their backsides but that's just me.

R562 Single women and all the men at breakfast? Sounds like a great way to find a new mistress. Country house traditions sound a bit scandalous.

R589 - I wouldn't be surprised if Nutmeg took it upon herself to break this tradition and appear downstairs where all of the action is. She seems the type to push herself forward.

Effing Lainey, she is TROLLING everyone today. She harps on the fact that the Cambridges dog, Lupo, is missing from their Christmas card photo. He was featured in several of their earlier family photos. She wonders if they've put the dog on the back burner, attention-wise, since the kids have all come along. Lainey fancies herself a dog lover and I think has several herself.

Umm, HELLO? Where is Guy the beagle lol? Meg's dog, she brought over from Toronto. So waiting for her to do a post re that missing pooch and his fate.

Ha! Never thought of it that way R592!

My understanding is, that with marriage came privileges like being served breakfast in bed or being able to wear a tiara. Very old school for sure. Not sure if the BRF have updated it so all ladies get breakfast in bed, or if it’s still the maiden ladies and gentlemen at the dining room table breakfasting on eggs, sausages, kedgeree, kippers, and the like.

R595 The British Royal family aren't known for being quick to update. Even if they have, I'll still imagine the scandalous version for my own amusement.

Thanks for lesson in country house traditions.

I'm not sure if the Queen will change this breakfast tradition but Charles and/or William might in the future.

R588, the couple standing or sitting next to a tree might have looked really nice.

If Merching Meg didn't mess up her looks by picking something absolutely inappropriate again, that is.

I love how R598 inadvertently confirms R588

I've always thought that the young Queen was quite attractive.

R599 I love how you prove yourself to be an idiot.

Will's dilemma has been completely obvious for years, and it should be considered constantly when discussing him. Will doesn't like being Royal, and detests the idea of becoming King one day. He doesn't want it, though he is resigned to his fate. He deplores media attention, and yearns for a life of going to and fro undisturbed by complete strangers fawning over him, his wife, and his children. Alas, he grits his teeth and flexes his jaws. He bears the burden, but has not yet taken it in stride. Argue against this point as much as you like, but that's the problem with Will. And he doesn't have the faintest hope of a change to his situation. The ONLY possible alternative would leave him in disgrace. He's trapped.