How to break a loser family cycle?

counseling and lots of it...I grew up in a very abusive household and left it without any skill or direction. Somehow, by luck, I didn't fuck up my life in a major way.

Finally in my 50s I was able to work through the anger I held on to for yrs. I'm emotionally better, happy, although I don't think I'll ever achieve what I could have if I was raised in a loving and nurturing environment

" . . . I'm on my own now and I don't want to continue my life that way."

You've answered your own question, Op: Choice.

Oh god, your life growing up sounds like mine, OP. I somehow survived and along the way I had to remove from toxic family members and forgive my parents because they did the best with what they had to work with, as bad as it was. But there was some joy and I smile at that remember that most people had it worse than me. Good luck on your journey.

Agree with R2. The first step was recognizing that your parents were wrong. The second was recognizing that you have a choice not to repeat their patterns.

Alcoholics, drug abusers and manipulative people will constantly iniflect responsibility on you and make everything your fault, your responsibility and that they’re somehow always the victim. As long as you allow yourself to be the sucker, you’re stuck in this drama - forever.

Your choice is to cut them off, permanently. Don’t give them your address. Use a PO Box for your mail and only have a cell phone. If you are enough of a schmuck to give a phone number to these parasites - use a google voice number so you control when you choose to deal with their drama. Don’t allow it to flash messages and ring through. Never, ever deal with their crap after 6 pm.

Set boundaries for yourself. You’ll only respond to their crap on a Saturday or Sunday at 1 pm, for example and you’ll cut it off at noon. Set a timer and end it. Do not acknowledge money begs. When the conversation turns to demands, end it. Drop the call with “We’ll speak again soon”.

Just sending you a hug, OP, as corny as that sounds. I wish you all the best and it sounds like you're on the right track because you recognize your damaged past and want to change it.

OP, I haven’t been in this situation, but two thoughts come to mind.

The first is to read, even though you have trouble with it. If you don’t read now, start with something you might like, perhaps, “The Hobbit”. I say this because it’s importand to keep challenging your mind, if you can. I have a friend who cannot read or write at all, and I think that’s too bad, but he can’t do it, so I can understand if that’s you, too, but I hope not.

As for employment, I suggest you try a trade. I have no idea how to learn one, like carpentry or plumbing, but it’s a thought. It’s a way to make good money, eventually, without going to college.

Good luck, sweetie! Big, sloppy moose smooches!

It could be worse, OP ... just imagine stumbling through life like R5.

I already did that, R5, because my mom still drinks a lot and she doesn't want anything to do with me anyway. My brother moved and I barely talk to him much.

I feel like I need to take a lifeskills class or something too but there aren't really any aside from in school. It sucks when you can't do anything right and you have to learn things you should have known when you were a kid. Sometimes I feel like I'm doomed to screw up no matter what and I don't want to be like that forever.

Short version: Keep your word. Learn to keep your word even to yourself. Surround yourself with people who will support you in your endeavors. Support them in theirs.

Back in the late 70s, I signed up for seminars for a program out of California. It was a for-profit entity that attracted a lot of derision. But what sold me on it, and I think other participants as well, is that it emphasized discipline and keeping your word.

I grew up in a dysfunctional family with intelligent, educated parents who fucked up their lives, and, in so doing, fucked up their kids. They insisted on good grades, so I did, at least, have education on my side. But I had no discipline. My parents were irresponsible and I learned irresponsibility from them. My father was never on time for anything. It was a joke in the extended family. But that and many other behaviors made it almost impossible for people around him to get things done.

So, I hit my 20s with brains and no discipline and a fucked-up family. I fucked up and I punished myself for fucking up by fucking up more. I should have been in therapy, and did eventually see a psychiatrist, but that came years later.

Some friends of mine had taken these seminars and wanted me to, so I did. And I learned to keep my word. And I became a pain in the ass about it, but I was learning in my 20s things I should have learned as a kid. Learning to keep my word made it possible for me to build a functional life. It didn't fix everything. I still fucked up. I still offended people without meaning to. But I learned how to clean up the messes I made. I learned how to get things done.

Those seminars are no longer available, and I couldn't recommend them anyway. What I recommend is surrounding yourself with people who will support you in being disciplined. Not by being taskmasters, but by occasionally calling you on your bullshit, kindly, and helpfully. People who will show up for you. People you will want to be your best person for.

I think addict find this in 12-step programs. That's no my issue, but I have friends in recovery. I think they've learned some of this stuff in meetings.

If you have people in your life who pull down, cut them out of your life. Not cruelly. Push them toward help, if you can. But don't let them pull you down. You have to develop a lot of strength before you can be around people like that without it damaging you, and you aren't there yet.

You can do this. I've done it. You will enjoy your life so much more. And you will be a much better friend.

R9, I was wondering about that. There are places that offer counseling on a sliding rate. If you try that, tell them you need exactly what you said, life skills. Otherwise, they’ll just listen and not tell you anything. I was always too shy to ask some things, so I’m still learning things at 60 that I could have learned by 30.

It’s important to brush your teeth at least twice a day. Shower with soap and shampoo every day. Wear clean clot(es. Quit smoking if you can.

Watch what other people do, and follow their lead.

Honesty is important. Learning how to be honest with people, while still being kind, can be a challenge, but it’s important. Telling people “no” is usually far kinder than saying “yes” when you don’t mean it. By the time they learn that you really meant “no”, when you said “yes”, they get to also feel humiliated about being duped.

I once needed help with something at my house. I asked a friend to help me, and he said sure. But it was never a good time for him to actually help me. After he inconvenienced me terribly, and jeopardized my project by the long delay, I realized he never was going to help me at all, he just couldn’t say “no”. So, I cut him off, I was so pissed, though I didn’t make it a dramatic thing. I found another way to do my project without his help. And I would never have him over my house after that.

R10 What you said, tenfold. I grew up in a dysfunctional household with a mentally ill mother. It wasn’t her fault. I got that discipline and the life lessons about integrity in the military. You can’t control anybody except yourself and you can hold yourself to a specific level of honesty and integrity.

You can also hold everyone you allow near you to that level. Anyone else? “Bye gurl, See you at the Whole Foods.”

I keep promises, R10, but it doesn't mean much since I don't really have friends or family. But if I say I'll come to work early or work a weekend for someone else I don't back out of it but the thing is sometimes I feel too nervous to ask anyone for anything. Like at work, I'll go in for someone two Sundays in a row but when I was sick or needed to leave early I don't feel comfortable asking people to stay for me, and then I get into trouble or they won't let me take the time off.

I do dumb things all the time. Like the other day I nearly caused a fire because I didn't know that you had to leave the oven door open when you broil something. It makes sense now but I didn't think of it at the time. The wall in my bedroom needed painting and the caretaker said he wouldn't do it, so I tried myself. It turned out horrible because I was doing it all wrong, and now there's little flecks from the roller all stuck in the wall. It's little things like that, but a lot of little things like that that I mess up all the time. I'll read directions on how to do something, but I'll still screw it up. I paid my credit card bill early becaue I missed some work and wouldn't have a paycheck the next month, but I didn'tknow that if you pay early it doesn't count towards the next month's bill, so I ended up getting behind in other bills. It's things like that plus just being so useless at things. I always have it in the back of my mind that I'm a loser and don't count for anything. It's hard to break that thinking and that kind of life. I know I have to try harder to make some friends too, but right now that seems so far off.

Well, I appreciate you are open to learning things, OP. You sound like a decent guy who knows right from wrong but didn't receive positive reinforcement that gives you the confidence to KNOW that are on the right track. Good Job!

You are struggling, BUT you recognize that and you'll be able to change. First off, I would cut yourself some slack: life is for learning, in big ways and small, so try not to call yourself dumb for not knowing how to broil something or for not realizing how your credit card payments are set up. Now you know, so you can move on, and even when you continue to make mistakes, as we all do, just chalk it up as another lesson learned. Your childhood sounds unreasonably tough, but you are not going to let it overshadow the rest of your life. Strive to focus on what you want now and in the future, and, as much as you can, let the past go. None of this is easy, but it is all achievable because you want to change your life for the better. Good luck.

OP, good for you for keeping your word. And you're figuring out how to be responsible. It isn't working out the way you want yet, but don't beat yourself up so much.

As a matter of discipline, don't call yourself a loser. Just don't. For one thing, it isn't true. Talk with a therapist about it. And you really need to find a professional to talk to.

What you said about reading directions and still screwing things up makes me wonder if you have undiagnosed attention deficit disorder. I had a head injury that lead to my developing ADD in my late 40s, so my personal issues might tilt me toward this idea. But I was very frustrated by needing to check directions over and over. I was already seeing a psychiatrist to treat the depression that also derived from my head injury, so I had someone to discuss this with. Strattera did not take me back to my previous level of functioning, but it still helped me work on sequencing steps.

Because of my health problems, I wasn't able to work for a long period and had no health insurance. This was pre-Obamacare. I was able to obtain surprisingly good health care through the county. I also got a social worker for the first time in my life. A social worker is probably who you need to direct you to classes in life skills. Also, when I received mental health care through the county, I found that they offered life-skills classes.

These services are available, often for free. Start by seeing a therapist. And look for access to a social worker. And check your library system. Sometimes they offer short courses for adults.

You are more self aware than most of the populace. Give yourself some credit.

Sizemeat?

R18, you're late. That comment should have been at r1.

It's peculiar that somebody who claims he can't keep his shit together, or even read well, is able to write/type as well as he can. Wonder why?

OP, R17 has great advice for you, on the other hand, R18 does bring up a valid point.

Op=PMBT

What is that r22?

This is an interesting article. I don't agree with several of the points, but you could look through it to see what areas you feel you are lacking because of your disastrous childhood situation.

Sometimes just honing on on the specific lifeskills that are lacking can point you in the direction to getting needed help.

It's an interesting to us and sad to you situation.

Sometimes it takes generations. Some artists have dealt with this. The Dutch film Antonia's Line is about this.

Hugs and all strength to you OP. Now that you see the problem, it will be easier to rise to the challenge. Only thing I can say is, life is a crapshoot. "Good" families produce losers. "Bad" families produce winners. That's the beauty of life. This is what gives meaning to hope.

I hope you will be a winner soon.

This might be useful for you OP. It sounds like you've got a condition called Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Basically it's PTSD that usually starts in very early childhood, so it almost seems like a series of personality traits. The good news is this is a very treatable condition.

"Complex PTSD describes a more severe and long-term condition that can occur after prolonged and repeated trauma, particularly in childhood. Trauma can cause problems with memory and disrupt the development of a person’s identity and their ability to control emotions and form relationships with others."

OP, you seem like someone with great reserves of intelligence, competence and tenacity. You'll get there OP! You ARE a winner and don't let anyone (including yourself) tell you otherwise.

OP, one thing you can do to keep your life straight is very religiously pay your bills on time. This helps with your credit and if you don’t have much money, credit is super important.

I come from the same kind of background as you, and sometimes anxiety makes it really hard to pay bills. I made a spreadsheet on my computer with all the bills on it. I included the phone numbers, account numbers and the amount due, the due date and the meter read date. Then I put the amount I paid and the date I paid it. I would do this around the first or second of the month, just go down the list and pay each one. Then I don’t forget any of them.

This way I know when the next bill is due and approximately how much it’s going to be next month. If you do it for a year, you know what the typical electric bill is for August, for example, and you can plan. There are computer programs you can buy that will do the same thing.

If you don’t have a computer, you can go to an office supply store and buy an old fashioned ledger book. Write the whole thing out the first month and then you have all the account numbers on the first couple pages. Sit down the first of the month when you get paid and do them all. If you can only pay some the first two weeks, and some the second two weeks, write in the ledger which day you paid each one.

You have to pay credit cards on time every month or it kills your credit. Don’t be even one day late, they will raise your interest rate.

If you don’t have much money, pay the minimum payment the first day it rolls over. Then, if you get to the day before payday, and you have some extra money left over, put as much of your leftover money on the credit card bill as you can. Or pay the minimum payment on the first paycheck of the month, and schedule a second payment on your second paycheck of the month. Even if it’s only $20. The first payment pays the interest. The second payment is all principal.

Don’t empty your bank account to zero. Bank overdraft fees add up fast. Always keep some extra money in there for when you go to McDonalds or have to get some gas unexpectedly. At least keep an extra $40-$50 in there.

Try to keep a couple hundred in the bank all the time. If you can’t, check your balance right before you pay the bills, make sure there’s enough money for all of them and watch your account for the next couple of days as each one goes through the bank. Write down what day they cleared on your spreadsheet. If you have payments automatically withdrawn from your account, watch it! They can be paid early or late too.

If you pay a bill and they hang on to the check for a long time without cashing it, like rent checks sonetimes, highlight it and keep checking the bank every day until it’s paid. Remember that money is coming out later and don’t spend it. That’s the easiest way to overdraw.

Overdraw fees and late fees can really fuck you up, especially if a lot of small debits hit one after the other and a bunch of them bounce. They will charge you a fee for each one and fees alone can add up until you can’t dig your way out, if money is very tight.

If you have little money and want a good credit rating, never use more than 50% of your credit card limit. Pay your bill the first day it’s due, not the last. This has to do with your “average days to pay.” If your billing cycle is thirty days to pay and you pay five days after the bill is due, you will end up with “five average days to pay.” That’s really good and helps keep your interest rate down. Pay credit cards within one or two days of the date the new bill first comes out. Jump on it immediately. Don’t even wait for the bill in the mail.

If you pay some bills by phone, they will only let you make a payment every 48 hours. So pay the minimum at least. Don’t make a partial payment.

OP people have good advice. If you have access to a community college, check their course lists. You might be able to get licensed or certified, A friend got his EMT training worked as an EMT. This opened doors for paramedic training. You might find a career path. Also, an academic counselor at the college might be able to point you to a lifeskills class.

Good luck.

OP, I wonder how old you are and where you live. Please don't be so hard on yourself, sometimes people are dealt a shitty hand in life, and it takes a lot of determination to work your way out of negative cycles.

Community colleges can be a great resource for you to find out if you have learning disabilities. I have struggled with math since the third grade and could never pass algebra. I went to my local community college's disabled students' center and took all sorts of tests and found out I have some kind of math misfire going on in my brain. I was given extra time for tests, and the opportunity to take tests in a private room. I got tutors and eventually passed two algebra classes with B grades. (Miraculous!) Once you link up at a community college, you can meet other people like yourself who are trying to work and continue getting an education. If you do have a learning disability, the CC will help you with appropriate classes and extra help. With reading, it's often a matter of finding engaging material that is at your level + a little challenging so that you are stretching yourself. You will be surprised, the more you read, the better you'll become at it.

I used to be a CASA (Court Appointed Special Advocate) for a child in foster care. Those volunteers who worked with the older 9high school) kids tried to help them with life skills stuff before they aged out of foster care and were turned out on the streets. It seems like you could benefit from someone being your mentor about life skills and organization that will help you stay on track with bills and upkeep so that you are not falling behind, messing up your credit, getting utilities cut off or whatever. Others have suggested therapy, which would be great for processing your childhood and maybe the therapist could point you toward someone who can help you with these other practicalities. I am not sure what a "life coach" does, (it sounds like a joke mostly) and it's surely expensive; I wish I knew of some kind of organization that helps people who need "coaching." Do you live near a LGBT community center? Maybe there are resources/programs for young people there that you could join.

Good luck and take care.

Also, read the bank and credit card companies’ fine print about fees. Some banks charge a fee to talk to a person, or fees to check your account more than a few times a month. Find out if there’s any fees you’re adding up without knowing it and don’t rack them up if you can help it.

Also, if you make a large purchase, use a credit card. If something goes wrong they can stop payment. Debit cards won’t.

If you receive a delivery of bulky stuff like furniture, look at the item all over and make sure it isn’t broken or scratched or parts missing. If it is, don’t accept it! Write “return and refuse, (parts missing, damage, whatever)” on the bill of lading (a large paper receipt with carbons on the back usually) if it’s a paper one. Don’t sign the receipt until you’ve looked all over. They will try to rush you but don’t sign until the end no matter what.

If they try to make you keep it and say they will fix it later, don’t do it. They never will. Give it back.

A carpenter I know said there are many certifications you can get for specific specialties that add to your pay. A lot of those classes are pretty short. Look into that if you go into any trade.

“ If your billing cycle is thirty days to pay and you pay five days after the bill is due, you will end up with “five average days to pay”

Sorry OP, I said that wrong! Should have said “and you pay five days after the bill first comes out.”

It’s one a.m. here, I’m going to bed!

Depthful psychotherapy from the right person can make a huge difference. Wishing you lightness on your journey forward... x

Depthful psychotherapy from the right person can make a huge difference. Wishing you lightness on your journey forward... x

Bootstraps.

In addition to everything said above... try to find a way to spend time around people who are sane and kind. Preferably not at your job.

Look at how people who are sane and kind deal with each other and with life's myriad difficulties, watch how they solve problems. Notice that they can disagree without anger, that they can admit the existence of a difficulty without finding someone else to blame it on, that they can suggest solutions to the group without being attacked, make suggestions to each other without insecurity or defensiveness... and in general handle things exactly the way that dysfunctional losers don't. Note their behavior and do your best to emulate it when you're around people who aren't like your family!

I found a group like this when I was in my twenties, a volunteer group, and that's where I actually learned the kind of social and organizational skills that I needed to get a good job and hold onto it. This is all stuff I had to learn as an adult, because all my goddamn family taught me was how to take abuse.

Oh yeah... and DON'T HAVE KIDS until you can afford to support and educate them!

Being gay is a huge help on that one.

There's a lot of us out there who grew up in dysfunctional families, who ended up having to do for ourselves. You're not dumb! You just have to make your way. I think one of the worst problems is feeling like you should be born knowing. No one does. Cut yourself some slack. Good advice re: credit. Try to get a small mutual fund, 401K as soon as possible. Get passive income working for you--which is money you get by not working. While you are young, live cheaply, and don't loan money. Tell all friends you are struggling, so the leeches fall off. Help where you can in time or favors. Your word is your bond. Don't microwave whole eggs without popping a hole in the shell. Don't put any metal in the microwave. Don't put out a grease fire with water--smother it. Screen your phone calls. If someone seems too friendly too fast, proceed with caution. If you use too many appliances, and all your lights go out, you've blown a fuse. Find where the breakers are, flip all switches down, and then flip them all back up. If you get a ticket or summons, you can get an extension for a court date or payment. Call and ask. And when dealing with customer service on the phone, get a name and extension number. That way, you can hold the rep to what they say. You are a winner! And you taught me something, because I didn't know you had to leave the oven door open when broiling!

I grew up like that, and it helped me a lot that my first job was in a bank, because I had to be at work the same time every day, and I was surrounded by people that were well dressed and had manners. I watched everything they did.

I read fashion magazines even though I hate them, to find out what people were wearing. I went to the Garment District in LA to buy my clothes because I had no money and I could buy nice work clothes and shoes really cheap. I rode the bus everywhere and didn’t try to buy a car because I couldn’t afford it. In LA. It was horrible, but when I did buy a car I bought the cheapest one I could get and used my own credit. When I went to a department store, I would ask sales staff to help me out together an outfit.

If you don’t have much money, buy simple classic clothes. I remember one of the old school TV newsreaders (Brokaw or Jennings? Can’t remember), once said that he bought his suits at Penney’s. If you buy plain dark suits or jackets and plain white shirts, you’re dressed fine. The less money you have, the more nondescript your clothes should be for social occasions. No wild ties or flashy shoes to business events. Get a salesperson to pick your ties if you don’t know. Get plain black dress shoes, they don’t have to be expensive. Look for sales.

Sign up on department store or other store websites for an email account. They will send you coupons and tell you in advance about sales. Comparison shop and know the price for an item you want in several stores. Some stores have fake “sales” so know what the price should be before you buy. Macy’s does that a lot, but they also have good sales a few days here and there, so know the real price. Know your sizes.

If you are heavy, lose weight. Employers discriminate against fat people. They will never tell you. Also don’t wear any weird hairstyles or hair colors if you work in an office. Don’t get tattoos where people can see when you’re dressed for work. Never talk about body functions or sex at work. Even if other people do it. It will help your career long term.

Other things that employers will hold against you: cursing. Never curse at work, even if everybody else is doing it. You can’t go wrong. Never discuss politics or religion at work. Never discuss people’s bodies at work. Never describe anyone as fat or ugly at work even if they are. Never call women sluts, bitches or whores at work. Or anywhere else where people can overhear you. Save that for at home in private if at all. Never compliment women on their clothes or appearance at work. At most, say, “you look nice today.” Don’t say that unless they ask you if they look okay for an interview or something.

Don’t flirt with coworkers. “Don’t shit where you eat” is the expression for that. It means don’t do things at work that are going to make it complicated for you later. Be polite to everybody at work, even the shitheads. I don’t mean friendly, I mean polite. Don’t badmouth or backstab people at work even if they have it coming. Don’t pick sides. For the first year you work someplace, keep your mouth shut and your ears open. That means don’t pick sides or say catty things about people, even if everyone else does it. But be aware of the gossip. If someone is on their way out the door, maybe going to be fired, don’t stick up for them. Be quiet and do your work. Be known as somebody that’s pleasant to everyone but not really opinionated.

Sometimes when you are a new person at work, everybody will be complaining about management or some policy. They will be trying to get you to agree. Maybe even ask you to be the one to complain to management on their behalf. DON’T DO IT! If someone is treated badly by management, don’t go on and on about “poor so and so.” Don’t be the advocate for other people. They are trying to push you to risk your job or get on management’s shit list because they want the problem solved, but don’t want to get in trouble themselves. Don’t fall for it. If everyone’s bitching about the same problem, it’s not going to be fixed. Leave it alone.

A highly structured environment like college, the military, or church, if that's you, is often good for helping build a stable life. They provide money and resources, you get your professional identity, your personal self has room to be sorted out and the earlier negative influences can fade away.

R39 is wonderful advice!

Management has a “shit list.” That list consists of: people that dress inappropriately for work. People that are always stirring up shit. People with crude manners. People that take off their shoes and walk around barefoot in an office. Sloppy people. People that talk about religion or politics at work and try to convert people. People that are late all the time, call in sick a lot or always have an excuse for not meeting deadlines. People that criticize the company or act like they’re working for a shitty place. People that criticize their boss or backstab.

Go to all the Christmas parties and company events, baseball or lunch or whatever it is. Do not bitch. It’s part of your job to do this, if you want to get promoted some day. Act happy to be there. Thank the boss for putting the event on if you can. Do not drink more than one or two drinks when you’re there. Even if other people do it. YOU ARE AT WORK, NOT A PRIVATE PARTY! DO NOT GET DRUNK! I’ve seen people ruin their careers by getting drunk at an office party. You don’t even have to do anything but act drunk.

I worked someplace once where they hired a temp receptionist. Everyone liked her. They were going to offer her the job permanently in the next few days. She went in the lunchroom, sat on the couch, took her shoes off and picked her bare toes and talked about “toe cheese.” Some other people were eating lunch in the room. Next day she was gone. Never saw her again. People said they thought it was classless and disgusting. No one said a word to her face. She was supposed to know better.

Keep your damn shoes on at work. It’s not your home. Basically, use the Grandmother Rule: if you wouldn’t do it in front of your God-fearing, churchgoing Grandma (or a friend’s Grandma if you don’t have that type of Grandma), don’t do it at work. That cuts out all the sexual harassment and innuendo charges and keeps your nose clean.

Never wear dirty or wrinkled clothes to work. If you have a small wardrobe, don’t have a lot of brightly colored clothes until you can afford more pieces. Wear very generic clothes so people don’t notice you only have three outfits. Black, gray, brown. You could have twenty white shirts, or two, and nobody would know the difference.

Do not go to work hungover or smelling like booze or pot. Ever.

Go to work clean and with clean underwear and socks on every day. Wear deodorant and have clean hair, nails and teeth.

I know this sounds obvious, but I once worked with a guy who wore a company uniform every day. The uniform was laundered by the company and all he had to do was put it on. He never changed his underwear and he smelled like piss. Finally the boss had to talk to him and tell him to wash. Turned out the wife threw him out and he was sleeping in his car. He was eventually fired.

Never let the people at work know about your personal problems. Nothing about messy breakups or fights with family. The only time you want to let them know about personal issues is if you might have to take off for work, like a funeral or sick parent in the hospital.

Don’t get arrested. Follow your instincts. If a party seems to be getting too wild or people seem too drunk or belligerent, just leave. Say, “I have to go to work early tomorrow, it was great seeing you,” and get the hell out of there. Don’t drive if you’ve been drinking. If things look like they’re about to get rowdy, walk out the door and around the corner and get an Uber from there. If there’s a public place, wait inside.

If you need a place to sit for a long time, hospital lobbies or waiting rooms are good. There’s bathrooms, comfortable chairs and a cafeteria and it’s fairly cheap. No one will notice if you sit quietly and read a book. Just say you’re waiting for a friend if someone asks. Stay out of the Intake area.

Some jobs you can do with little training: Facilities Maintenance for a big office building, janitor at a hospital. Those are professional environments and sonetimes the company will be willing to promote you from within if you get more education or qualifications. Mailroom in a corporate office is another one. There may not be much opportunity for advancement, but your insurance is probably taken care of and you may get other benefits. Good place to continue your education. Also you meet everybody, so if you make a good impression they may let you know about a job coming up. Once you’re in a big company in any job, you can find out about more jobs. They post them to inside employees first. If they like you it’s a big advantage. Don’t ask right away. Work in that spot for a year at least and show you’re a good employee.

Pay. Your. Dues. Lots of young people don’t understand that. It means, don’t walk in the door and demand stuff. You’re a rookie, be quiet. Be humble and realize you don’t know it all.

Never say “that’s not my job.” If they’re paying you, it is your job. If they’re unreasonable, look for another job. Don’t quit until you have one.

I can’t be everywhere at once, r19.

[quote]How to break a loser family cycle?

What a wonder is a gun!

Some great advice in this thread.

Lots of great advice here. Op if you are still in your 20s you might consider joining the military / I think you can enlist up to around age 34. It’s not for everybody, and obviously there are risks, but it has been a way for people from disadvantaged or troubled backgrounds to remove themselves from bad family situations and learn both life skills and a trade.

R36, in which volunteer group did you learn those valuable life skills? Was it something specific, like animal welfare, that just happened to have a great set of people?

OP, this is a wonderful thread. And I learned something from you today: I never understood why my fire alarm would go off when I tried to broil something, but now I know that I'm supposed to open the door of my (electric) oven. Thank you!

I'm glad R47 that you specified that about an electric oven although when I had an electric oven it wasn't neccesary to close the oven door to broil. And setting off the fire alarm seems counter-intuitive: open the oven door and there's more smoke, not less.

More to the point, don't try to broil anything with the oven door open on a releatively new gas oven: the last two I've had (Bosch and LG) won't allow the broiler to light or stay lit for more than 10 seconds or so when the oven door is opened.

You made the important first step. Removing yourself from a family that is holding you back. You can't let them drag you down with them.

While not from a really erratic background I am from a poor one. If you want to have a different life and wake up a different person t might take you 10 years to do it, but it can be done. My advice, based on nothing but my own experience, is:

- Move to somewhere away from you family. Doesn't have to be the other side of the country, can be another town in the same state. - Learn to drive if you can't already. Your world really will open up.

- Get a job and start to save. Avoid addictions of any kind.

- Exercise. Stay in shape. Dress well.

- Build a career, no matter how small it may be.

- Own property. It took me until my 40s to own a small flat is a not great neighbourhood, but when that day came I felt I really had accomplished something and that I wouldn't end up homeless or in a caravan in the family yard.

- Fall in love. Don't feel you don't have something to offer. Avoid people like your own family.

- Travel. Doesn't have to be international. See a bit of your own country, become interested the wider world beyond your drama filled family.

- And sadly, keep your background under wraps. Whenever I have mentioned my background to work people/friends it has ALWAYS been thrown in my face at some point. Never mention it in the workplace. A lot of people will want to keep you down. Act like you belong there. Never speak of family dramas or the things you've been through at work. To anyone.

Absolutely agree with good advice above--once you discover what style works for you, refine and keep using it--I remember from some time ago that many of the most successful/wealthy people have a basic pattern that works for them and keep using it--they vary the color & accessories, but keep the base pattern. There's a well-known custom shoemaker that keeps patterns/shoe sizes for this type of clientele so that they can order repeatedly custom shoes that last for years, when taken care of. Buy the very best you can afford--go for quality rather than quantity--believe it or not, Goodwill can be your friend!

Find a mentor--he/she will be invaluable in helping you to set up successful behavior to meet life's challenges.

Learn to speak and write correctly--that will always put you at and advantage in any situation. Take an inventory of your appearance--have a good friend critique, then work on things step by step--teeth are important--if money is tight, find a dental school. Same for hair--find a cosmetology school. Save as much as you can, and then save some more. When your company offers a matching contribution, lever up to the maximum. Look for a stable, "blue blood" company to work for. Travel--try new experiences--travel is a great education. And trust your intuition--if something seems too good to be true, it probably is.

I was a battered child from a "good" family, well acquainted with the school of hard knocks--lots of boom/bust cycles, career/personal life-wise. At court-ordered counseling years ago, on Hollywood Boulevard, on a dark and stormy night, the woman said these words that have stuck with me since, and helped turn my life around--"Be good to yourself". You can do it and you will--don't give up, there are people on your side! Last week my pension began, my FICO is 828, the vehicles/house are paid for, and we have money in the bank. Wishing you all the best luck in the world!

R50, boy is that true. NEVER talk about your bad family background at work or to anyone you want to like you. People will definitely hold it against you, even if you did nothing wrong.

I was "friends" with a woman for several years that I thought really liked me. We talked about all kinds of stuff. One day I mentioned my bad family background. Boom! She accused me of trying to make her feel sorry for me. I wasn't. I just didn't have a happy story to tell her and she thought anyone telling a story like that must be a con artist or a liar. She was cold and unfriendly to me after that and we only spoke once or twice after that.

My personal experience is that if you come from a bad background, stay the hell away from drugs and alcohol. People from that type of background are stressed out to begin with. A lot of them can have drug dependent personalities without knowing it, or a history of drug dependency in the family and it can be hereditary. I have several family members who also came from a stressful background. Several of them became alcoholics or heavy recreational drug users, and they ended up with really bad depression or bipolar. A lot of this has to do with brain chemistry and there's not much you can do about it but stay away. There's no harm done by not smoking, drinking alcohol or taking recreational drugs. If you have chronic depression, you can keep it to a milder level by not taking mood altering drugs. Taking them just makes you dependent on drugs to feel normal. You may see in a few years that some of your peers end up with pretty bad chemical dependency issues, because they're chronically depressed and they are self medicating. Don't start that. If you feel depressed, see a doctor.

Generally speaking, people that take a lot of drugs can maybe get away with it for a few years. Then you hit your forties and you hit the wall hard, either your looks or with the beginnings of health issues that just get worse because your liver or lungs or other organs are shot.

Lovely advice, R50, but this one is a tall order:

[quote]Fall in love. Don't feel you don't have something to offer.

When you're dealing with the double-whammy of a "loser" upbringing, as OP so succinctly puts it, and a culture that is as antisocial yet image-obsessed as ours has become, it's so easy to judge yourself as lacking. You think, "I don't have enough to offer just yet, but I will soon. I'll start dating after I fix my wardrobe, after I find a better job, after I buy a house..." And then the time frame just extends indefinitely, because there's always something about you that's not quite good enough yet.

OP, you don't need to be a different person. You are self aware, open to making positive changes, and determined not to fall into the habits that often plague those of us who encountered abuse and neglect.

For me (father alcoholic, parents divorced when I was age 4, mother banned me from contact wth that side of the family, her brother sexually abused me when I was 4-5, she is mentally unstable and couldn't look after me, often went without proper meals, was ht, verbally abused etc as a teen, she basically abandoned me when I left home for college), the light bulb moment happened when I was staying alone in a friend's apartment in Paris. I had a kind of breakdown, and realised needed to understand myself as a survivor of alcoholism and mental illness in my parents. I read a lot of Adult Children of Alcoholics material.

I found this especially helpful: An Adult Child's Guide to What's 'Normal' by John Friel (Author), Linda D. Friel

It's a tough road, OP. There's a lot of us around, remember that. And a lot of us share the struggle to feel secure, worthwhile, respected, loved. I can't manage an intimate relationship but I can do other things. Today I heard that I was elected to the office of town councillor, I like to be around others who want to work together to make a change locally. Find what makes you happy, your past has shaped you, but it does not define you, and it is not a sentence that you have to serve for the rest of your life.

Many life skills are things you learn as you go. When I moved from NYC to Florida, I learned the hard way that laws about bills are different. In NYC (at least at that time) you had 30 days from the issuance of any bill to pay it without penalty. I was living in a college town in Florida. I came with such a good credit history that I didn't have to pay any deposits. The next year, when I moved and had to set up a new account, they made me pay a deposit. I said, "why? I've paid all of my bills". They said, "our bills say that they must be paid 10 days after issuance, and many times you didn't pay until after that date".

I was 27 and had lived on my own for years when someone visiting me said casually, (looking at the dishes I had stacked in the sink to wash later), "you know, if you put a little water between each dish, they'll be much easier to clean later". (I grew up with a dishwasher, so I didn't know that).

Floss every day. My teeth were pretty, but until I started having regular teeth cleanings at age 28, all I did was brush them daily. My gums were so horrible I looked like Count Dracula after a fresh feeding by the end of that teeth cleaning. It took a year to get them into good shape.

TV is your enemy. Make a plan for your days off, whether it's a long walk in a different part of town, a visit to a museum, There's no worse feeling than coming to the end of a day and realizing you have wasted the entire day without accomplishing anything.

I would say that most people now have no notion of how to make small talk. (Blame cell phones and other devices). The best way to make friends is to ask LOTS of questions. Not deeply personal questions (at least at first), but simple questions. "Are you from here?". "Have you been to this store before?". "Have you ever tried this product? I'm not sure if it's any good". "I hate waiting in this line that isn't moving. You don't have any secret short cut, do you?" "That's a great hair cut. I'm looking for a new barber. May I ask where you go?. People love to talk about themselves and are usually enamored of anyone who takes an interest in them. You just don't want to go too personal too soon, because people might think that's creepy.

I was lucky to grow up with loving parents, but I also grew up as one of seven children, so there were lots of life lessons I missed along the way.

It's always helpful to strive to be a lifelong learner. If you have Internet access, there are websites and instructional videos available for free on everything from cooking to car repair to study skills to doing your taxes-Google extensively on how stuff works and how to do specific activities or tasks. Don't be afraid to ask others for help if you need it, if their actions have shown them to be reliable, trustworthy people, and don't feel ashamed for not knowing how to do something. There are lots of things in life that you won't get better at unless you practice. Therapy and counseling do help, and some of the New Agey positive thinking exercises in self-help books actually do work, too. A bad childhood with an alcoholic parent does not mean you have to have a terrible adult life, even if it takes more work to improve or change things for yourself, both internally and externally.

Ask DL for help with stuff, OP. The guys here can be savage bitches but also very generous with advice and knowledge.

It sounds like you're on your way, OP. Follow your instincts...they seem very good.

The advice in this thread is top shelf. I would add something that worked for a friend of mine who was severely neglected.

She went back to the home(s) of her childhood several times and was able to remember some stuff that she couldn’t before. She explained it as a missing piece of the puzzle had been put into place. She was able to use that to view the situation as a series of real events that happened instead of a “hole” (abstract sense).

It seemed to really help her. But she had already been in therapy for a while by that point. She had a therapist she could talk to after the visits. Her family was long gone but the houses were still there.

I think the hardest part for her was leaving a couple of young cousins behind. She had nightmares about what was going to happen to them. She was trying to help some of her siblings but they weren’t able to follow her lead. It lead to arguments and resentment and eventually her completly cutting off of contact.

I don’t speak to her much now and would I never ask, but I always wonder about the ones who have to be left behind so that one can recover. I don’t see that she had any other choice. If she had stayed to try to help the little ones, she would have never recovered.

Is there a “best practice” for having to leave a little one behind in the mess?

This thread is bringing all this back to me so I have one more question.

Those of you who were neglected, did anyone ever call CPS or the police on your family for neglect.

If so, what happened?

Has anyone ever called them on a family? How did it shake out?

Set yourself two small goals every 6 months. It doesn't have to earth shattering. It could be as simple as learning to cook a meal, visiting a nearby place for a weekend, or accepting a date with anyone who asks you out for the next two months. Establish another goals once the last one is ticked off.

What you're trying to establish is a sense of the future. People from traumatic backgrounds often spend a lot of time looking back. This will help break that mindset and is easy to do.

[quote]Those of you who were neglected, did anyone ever call CPS or the police on your family for neglect.

Not in my case, no. I was fortunate that, after being moved around to I think it was 15 or 16 places before was 10, my mentally ill mother then decided to stay in one state. We still moved from place to place, as she couldn't pay rent, lost jobs etc but I went to the one HS all through to age 18. That meant I had some stability. It was hard, I was malnourished, very thin, painfully awkward, had bad second hand clothes, etc, but made a small group of friends and they protected me from bullies, and when things got really bad (i.e. my mother stopped buying food and stopped speaking to me and just sat watching TV in silence, or would throw rages and tear my room apart looking for 'evidence' I was in touch with my father, which she had forbidden), their parents would let me stay with them for a few days. Maybe a teacher should have intervened, but didn't. Kids from bad backgrounds often stay silent, or lie to protect their parents / abusers, because the fear of ending up in the care system is so great, and also from the shame.

Plastic surgery and marrying a Jew. The jury's still out if it works or not.

I have to reinforce: Don't talk about your background. Not on dates, not with people you're trying to befriend, and especially not at work.

Especially at work, complaining about personal problems is unprofessional, so don't do it even if other people do! Nobody there wants to hear about their co-workers problems, especially serious ones, it'll make them feel uncomfortable because they don't know what to say, or guilty because they think you're expecting them to help, and yes, relations between co-workers ARE normally that shallow. So don't. Of course that's not easy around the holidays, when people think "So are you going home for Christmas" is normal small talk. You have to learn to say things like "Not this year, I'm seeing friends" or "We're not getting along right now, maybe next year", etc. If some kindly or nosy frau asks if there are problems don't confide in her but don't be rude either, just say you'd rather not talk about it and get back to work.

And yes, be hesitant to confide this stuff in friends or lovers as well, don't lie and say everything is great, but don't just unburden it all at once, either. Friends or lovers can't make any of it go away, and they don't necessarily want to make the relationship all about your feelings, or act as your therapist or life coach. So bring it out slowly if at all, and make it clear that you're working it hard to change and aren't looking for pity. The thing is, normal people don't have any experience with this kind of awfulness and don't how to deal with it or the aftermath, and you have to take their feelings into account when bringing it out even though you're the one who've suffered terribly and they're not. Which is obviously counter-intuitive, but the ground rule is still that nobody likes a whiner.

Gawd, this must seem incredibly difficult, but a lot of this advice is very much long-term. If you come from a background like you or I did the task is to unlearn everything you learned in the chaotic home and learn how sane and stable people do things, and that is a job that takes a lifetime. I'm almost sixty now, and I'm still at it, although I'm not at the Advanced Level.

Nope, nobody called CPS on my mom, but person after person observed that she was neglecting her kids, even years before I was born. One of her baby daddies said something and I guess that helped for a while. Most people didn’t want to get involved.

She would usually be civil and sweet in front of people, then go totally beserk as soon as we were at home. The neighbors knew. They could hear the screaming.

I’m guessing our family was an object of much gossip and interest.

R61, the crazy thing is my mom called the police once. She was super drunk and went crazy on Christmas Eve when I was 15 so I took off. She kept calling me to come home but I wouldn't so she called them to say I ran away. A few hours later she called me back and said that the police were looking for me so I'd better come home. I got home and they were there. At first they talked to her and then one of them talked to me and they took me to a shelter. I stayed there for awhile but went back home before I had to move to a group home and basically told the social worker things were better at home. I had a worker when I was younger too but I don't remember that much about it other than that I went and stayed at grandparents house until my mom moved into a new apartment.

I didn't know any of that about credit cards, R28. I don't have a big limit but I try hard not to be late paying it every month. I used to think that it was like a regular bill, so the time I payed it early it didn't count to the next months payment. I pay all my bills online so it's easier for me to keep track of how much I have. I usually pay certain bills first then wait till next payday to pay the other ones so I try to keep paying on schedule. Sometimes I just pay when I have the cash, like if I had overtime on my check.

R30 - "m 22 and live in MSP. I want to go to community college in a couple of years but I can't do it right now. I don't have any suits, R39, just some pretty basic clothes like a couple of pairs of black pants, jeans and other basic stuff. I'm not overweight but I'm kind of small for a guy so it can be hard to find that fit really well. I stay pretty quiet at work but that's because I get anxious around others sometimes, but maybe that's a good thing?? I don't get into trouble at my jobs but I'm mainly ignored. I never miss work, and didn't have any time off for months until I was sick a couple of weeks ago and I don't cause any problems. I don't go to the parties though, I'd rather just stick to myself because i usually feel too akward and I don't think the people at work really take notice of me anyway. I'm just kind of there and do my job.

I've only told one person about my background and my mom and that was a big mistake, because at first he asked and was nice about it, but in the end he turned it all on me. I didn't do drugs but I used to drink and take ambien to help me sleep, R52.

I don't think I'd fit in in the military R40, they'd probably hate me.

R65, I lie all the time about what I'm doing on any holiday and just say I'm going to my mom's, famlies, if someone asks even though I'm not. I met a guy last year that I liked and told him this whole lie about my family and that my mom helped me pay for my apartment. Don't know why I did that but it started with last Thanksgiving, just pretending I had to go somewhere.

There's a lot of good things/advice in this thread and I'm still reading all the responses. Thank you to everyone and I'm sorry any of you had rough childhoods.

First thing I would do is completely cut off the family if you havent already. Is there anything that peaks your interest that could be a career? Maybe a vocational school/ the building industry is usually thriving....something in that area?

My other piece of advise, I dont know if you are gay but if you are or even if you arent...... be very very careful who you get into a relationship with because people that have had your experiences often unknowingly pick people like their family members............alocholism and drug use is a pretty common thing in the world and especially the gay world. Run the other way, both personally and with anybody you allow into your life with that problem.

I agree with others, counseling is a must as well.

Hi OP. Don’t feel bad about the Thanksgiving thing. Just keep it vague. “I had a good holiday, how about you?” Or, “We had a good time.” If people ask you your plans, “Oh, we do the same thing every year. It’s a lot of fun.” Sound pleasant about it, smile. If you don’t want to talk about yourself, ask the other person how they’re doing. That’s a good way to get out of too many personal questions in general.

It’s okay to be sort of quiet at work. At your age people are probably not going to pay much attention to you unless you’re aggressive, which it sounds like you aren’t. But that’s okay. It’s a good thing to look around work for older people that seem happy and well adjusted and try to use them as an example.

If money permits, look for a “church outfit,” something like a dark suit or dress slacks and at least a sports jacket. And black dress shoes. This is not as expensive as you might think. You may need to go to a wedding or funeral or a work party and it always turns out you don’t have any money to spare when you need the outfit.

Dry cleaners can do some simple tailoring for you, like shortening sleeves or hemming pant legs if you need a little help. Usually they know somebody that’s good at that, even if they aren’t a direct store employee. Try a larger dry cleaner near you.

Also, if you buy a dress suit, a lot of times the place where you buy it will do alterations for a charge.

If you have a car, if you can’t afford to do anything else, keep getting oil changes on schedule. That prevents a lot of problems.

Great one whoever wrote this above:

Look at how people who are sane and kind deal with each other and with life's myriad difficulties, watch how they solve problems. Notice that they can disagree without anger, that they can admit the existence of a difficulty without finding someone else to blame it on, that they can suggest solutions

Often people will donate complete suits to thrift shops. In the west we have Value Village and Goodwill among others. You could pick up a good suit for $10 if you think you might need one. (Of course you have to try them on). If you are small, you'll probably have to do a lot of shopping to find one that fits.

If someone asks you about your family, I think a very reasonable answer is to say, "I'm not close to my family". That pretty much says it all. If they start to pry, you can just say, "I prefer to leave it at that". That will shut down questions about where you spend your holidays, etc. I came from a loving family, but I am the type of person that people confide in, and I've had dozens of friends tell me about their horrible upbringings, their bitchy mothers, their father who was arrested as a peeping Tom, etc. Although your upbringing was particularly horrible, I think the "leave it to Beaver" happy home with two loving parents is the exception rather than the rule, and probably always has been. But people feel obligated to pretend to the world that everything was hunky dory.

R38 absolute genius advice!

: Tell all friends you are struggling, so the leeches fall off.

Eric? Barron? Are you two olay in there?

Some very sound advice here, especially the warning to avoid substance abuse if you come from a dysfunctional background or are prone to depression. Try to have the foresight to avoid circumstances where the solution becomes an even bigger problem; eg, drugs, alcohol, destructive r'ships, overeating. If you compound your problems, it becomes much harder to dig yourself out.

OP / R67 , your work strategy sounds like my work strategy at my old job. It worked out well for me. The one thing I did was to use paid sick days as mental health days. I made sure that my schedule was clear, though, so no one had to cover for me. I hope you have health insurance. My advice would be to never go without health insurance, no matter how young you are. Take care of your health, including mental health, and take care of your dental issues.

Here’s a good thread on buying inexpensive but decent suits, OP - but only for when the time comes.

Clothes are important. They influence how others see you, and can really help to make you feel confident. In this day and age, the internet is awash wth high quality second hand clothing. You can get an excellent overcoat and suit, and shirts, at very low prices. Buy a tape measure and measure yourself. Ask a seller to confirm exact waist, shoulder to hem, across shoulders, inside leg, and arm length measurements before you bid or buy. If you are bidding decide the absolute maximum you can afford to pay, enter that amount, and then do not look at the item again until the auction has closed (if you have any addiction tendencies you may get into bidding wars for the thrill - don't do that, and turn off email alerts for 'you've been outbid').

Keep a torch, batteries, matches, candles and candle holder / lantern.

Never drill holes into walls without taking extreme caution. Pipework and electrical wiring runs behind the wall, as does your waste pipe from the toilet, and it is not obvious to the non-professional where they are. You do not want to electrocute yourself or create a damp / leak problem. There are videos on YT telling you how to tape the wall where the pipes and wiring is likely to be, and you can buy a device that identifies metal in the wall, but it's best to pay a professional plumber or contractor to do any drilling.

I can check out some used clothing stores for a jacket but the problem I have is that my chest/shoulders are narrow so usually the shoulder seams on shirts or jackets look too low. Is it worth buying a couple of them if they're a little too big and then getting them taken in?

R28. Whoa. I have the exact same issue. I loved my parents but they had absolutely no money skills. I pay all my bills online. It’s a minor obsession so nothing ever gets forgotten. Here’s what I do. I pay all my regular bills (utilities, insurance through my credit card) so there’s complete tracking of what was paid and when with evidence of the transaction. Then, I electronically transfer money from my bank account to my credit card to cover the amount due. Sounds a little crazy? No late bills, not once. I’m getting a 7 day cruise for two and free air fare with the points but there are better ways of doing this. The key point is this: every bill you pay must have a transaction number from your credit card company or bank. Never risk a check lost in the mail. It usually takes one or two business days for this to clear.

An electronic payment is never disputable when it does the entire tracking number.

R30. This is fairly typical behavior for children of substance dependents and the mentally ill. We don’t want people to know what we actualy deal with - so we “normalize” and create a more acceptable version of our lives than what exists. When we confide in someone our truth, they’re overwhelmed. Our sense is they believe we’re tained by association, we’re lying or worse - we’re also affected by our familly’s illness.

There are choices we make. I learned to not talk about my family for many years. I have sisters I totally love and who are amazing, wonderful women. I’m very lucky. I have wonderful cousins who have been very good to me. It’s given me some normalcy this way. I let my spouse get to know them and it wasn’t easy because he got to see the truth about my family, and it wasn’t pretty.

I realized over the years that everybody’s family has a lot of stink. My partner’s family has just as much ugliness. They just ignore it, so that’s super healthy. What I see that’s different is unlike us, none of the kids in his family became the caretakers /defenders/Official Apologists for adult with issues.

Letting go of that role that was foisted onto you is really hard but can be liberating over time. It’s allowing youself to so no to that person continuing to hurt you. The other thing you can do is stop drinking. I get the ambien - but not the alcohol. Those two shouldn’t be used in comination: bad things happen like wandering around naked in public.

I’d encourage you to challenge yourself to a 30 day “no alcohol” vacation. Not even Nyquil with your ambien. Tell your doctor that ambien isn’t getting you to sleep and ask for a sleep study.

You aren't a loser, OP, you're someone who has issues and is doing good work on coping with them. No, the real losers are the ones who try to blast the pain away with substance abuse and end up unemployable, or who react to their suffering with the kind of overwhelming anger that leads them to blame others and pick fights with anyone who looks at them the wrong way or who end up shooting up their workplace or family home in a horrific murder-suicide. Those are the fucking losers!

No, you're doing the right thing - faking being normal until you actually become normal! It can be done, I did it. FYI it's a long process, but once you start doing your best to live a sane and normal life, you never forget the horrors, but before long they aren't the most important thing about you. In time, they're something you survived rather than something that's holding you back. I even found that while other people are overwhelmed by the responsibilities of adulthood I think that all the career and money worries are a piece of cake compared to my childhood! It's all uphill, once you start the process.

Sorry, I meant to say it's all an upward trend, once you get away from the crazy people and start building a life for yourself.

This is a great thread and a lot of people, not just the OP, can gain help from what's here.

OP - not saying the military is the right option for you - but your response that “they’d probably hate me” needs to be thought about. We are often our own harshest critics, and we all worry about what others think about us - but not assuming the worst in both other people and especially yourself is something you will need to be able to do to move your life into a better place.

If you are able to see a therapist at some point you should work on those feelings. Good luck.

Yes, OP, f you find good quality low cost jackets that need only minor alterations, get those. If you are narrow shouldered, look at Uniqlo. Their clothing is very affordable in the sales and cut very narrow. Big guys complain they can't wear any of it.

OP, if you want to try buying something with shoulders that are too wide, before you do, call the dry cleaner, get the number for the person that does their alterations, and ask her how hard it is to do for a men’s suit jacket and how much. Then you can judge by that.

Don’t complain, Don’t explain.

Often brands that are geared toward younger men are narrower in the shoulders. I am tall and slim (even in my elder years), and a student turned me onto the brand of Macy dress shirts called Alfani. They definitely wouldn't fit a normal to wide-shouldered average guy. They are built for slim people. In general, Italian suits and other European suits are also built for slimmer people, so wouldn't need as much alteration for you.

You're bound to find a suit and shirt that fits you properly with minimal alterations, just look around some more.

Jeez

OP, I would suggest getting a few pairs of dress pants and a sports jacket if you have trouble getting a suit.

My dad wore them as a cardiologist in private practice. He had one dark blue suit for weddings and funerals and that’s it.

You can also wear pants, a shirt, a tie, a nice wool v-neck sweater and a scarf and coat in winter until you get the jacket that fits.

Find a good ACoA meeting and read the literature. Some is linked for free at the site below.

If the people at the first meeting you try are predatory or do nothing but vent, find another. A lot of traits you think are just you will suddenly be revealed as part of a pattern common to people with your childhood. Finding people who are also trying to change their lives for support and as a mirror can save you a lot of time in making different decisions and seeing things from a new perspective.

In a pinch, you can hand wash shirts and underwear and shorts in the sink, if you can't afford detergent or the laundromat. Use dish liquid or shampoo.

Cut dish liquid and shampoo with water to stretch them.

And home dry cleaning kits are much cheaper than the cleaners and less chemicals.

We've focused on food but maybe OP can use some other ideas to make do.

If you run out of toothpaste, baking soda is a good temporary substitute

^ sorry wrong thread! I thought I was on 'how to survive till payday on 25$' !

Embrace affirmation videos that are free on the internet OP.

You can find plenty on a YouTube web site called "The Daily Positive".

I hope this one will help you as well =

Living Free Of The Past

"The Daily Positive" also has a relationship expert =

How To Make Peace With Your Past

300 Positive Money Affirmations For Prosperity Mindset

This brief video could also help your financial status =

Partner Advice With A Licensed Therapist

Create Your Zen Zone OP

Infinite Waters (Diving Deep) is also a positive YouTube channel =

Can You Be You? Express Yourself 100%

13 Things To Remember When Live Gets Rough

7 Things Highly Confident People Don't Do

Being Yourself & Being Free To Live Your Life

How To Deal With People That Get You Down

How To Stop Caring For People Who Hurt You

Do what you love. Dont fall for abusive or manipulative people. Be honest about your feelings in therapy. Exercise of find a workout to clear your mind (mine is cycling)

Treat yourself well, sleep appropriately, dont use your upbringing as an excuse. Plenty of us are abused, neglected, raped, ignored, grown up in poverty.

And most of all surrounding yourself with close friends that know your upbringing and that you can rely on is vital.

I hope to hear updates :)

It's important to know that you CAN break a mold. As an example, my mother was the oldest of 5 children. It was so important to her mother (my grandmother) that she have a son that she made her daughters pray every night for a little brother. When her only son and youngest child was born, the sun rose and set in him. The older girls loved him too (their baby brother), but they were very conscious that there was a double standard at work, and some degree of resentment about that. I asked my mom when I was an adult whether she was more drawn to her female children or male children (I'm one of seven children). I had just read an article that said that mothers generally agreed that they felt closer to their male children at birth. She said that indeed she felt more drawn to her male children. But having grown up the way she did, she determined that she would do everything in her power to make her female children feel equally loved and appreciated. As a consequence, my three sisters regard her as their very best friend in the world. There were none of the mother-daughter antagonisms that we so often hear about.

The whole point of that long story is to say that you don't have to allow your upbringing to define you. It has damaged you, but you have the power within you to break the mold, to be far better than the shitty circumstances that you faced as a child. I think your curiosity about how to make your life different and better is a sign that you're already doing that. I think you've demonstrated an amazing amount of courage to come forward with your story. You've made yourself vulnerable to a bunch of strangers. But we're all rooting for you and for your life to be successful and happy.

Start by always keeping your house and your body as clean and possible. Do it every evening. A clean and orderly living space is key.

I used to have a boss that said, don’t pay attention to what people say, pay attention to what they do. That’s true in life as well as in work.

About laundry, it’s always good to have a bar of Fels Naptha soap around. It’s a type of soap that’s made for washing clothes or I think people can also use it to wash their hands if they get very greasy or oily and it’s hard to get off. It’s not an everyday hand washing soap though. It’s too strong. It’s in the laundry section near the Zote (Mexican laundry soap). It’s better than Zote.

It’s really good for washing underwear or socks if you have to wash them in the sink. It will keep your underwear spotless and white. It’s good for removing grease stains from clothes.

If you have blood or grease or dark food stains, use cold water, not hot. Hot water will set the stain.

I keep a bar of Fels Naptha in my suitcase in case I’m ever traveling and have to hand wash clothes in my room. I also carry a small travel packet of Tide for washing jeans. You can buy travel packets at Target or Walgreens or Walmart, they usually have a section somewhere with all the mini bottles of shampoo and lotion.

If you have to handwash delicate clothes, especially sweaters or wooly stuff, wash them with cold water and Woolite. Then, get a large beach towel or large bath towel, lay it on the floor flat and lay your sweater on the floor flat on top of it. Fold the sleeves flat over the torso of the sweater if there isn’t enough room.

Fold the towel over neatly on the right and the left. Then roll it up from the bottom like you’re rolling up a rug. Now you should have a roll with both sides tucked in. Step on the rolled up towel (without your shoes) and walk all over it like you’re stomping grapes. This pushes out all the water. Unroll the towel. Now you have a slightly damp, clean sweater. In some cases, you might want to use a second towel and do it again if it’s a bulky sweater or you need it to dry fast.

You can drape this over the shower rod, or if it’s really delicate or prone to stretching, get another clean towel and lay it on that to finish drying. Never hang up wet sweaters. Always dry them flat.

If you do it that way, you don’t have to dry clean wool sweaters and they turn out really nice. It smells like wet dog though, until it dries.

If you are handwashing clothes in a motel room, or if you are handwashing jeans at home and they have to be dry by tomorrow, the towel method will get them dry much faster. Just do it at night and in the morning they’ll be dry.

If you have clothes with a greasy or bloody stain, it’s better to pretreat it if you can. Make sure the stain came out before you put it in the dryer.

Use Fels Naptha or a spot treatment product, or if you don’t have that, take a little bit of laundry detergent and make a paste, and rub it in the affected area and let it soak for a bit before you wash it in a machine. Soaking in cold water helps dissolve stains. Dawn dish soap is also good for dissolving greasy stains. Get the plain kind without all the scents and additives.

Take the wet clothing that was stained and let it air dry. Check the stained area again when it’s dry, and make sure it’s all gone. If it isn’t, repeat. Don’t iron over a stained area, you may set it.

Dawn dish soap is specifically formulated for dissolving grease. If you have a rash or a bug bite, it’s also good for making it stop itching. I’ve even used it as shampoo and body soap when I was sick and didn’t wash my hair for a few days and it was all greasy. Don’t do that every day though as it is drying. If you’re out of shampoo, it’s a good substitute for a day or two until you can get some. Just the plain Dawn, the others are formulated differently and not as effective. Some of the others also have moisturizers in them which you don’t want if you going to use it for something else.

I always keep some plain Dawn around and wash my glasses with it too. Doesn’t scratch and gets them very clean.

Forgot to mention, if you are washing wool sweaters, don’t wash it in the washer, not even on the delicate cycle. Hand wash it, and it will stay like new for years.

Excellent advice on here for you, OP. Take a walk every day, even if it's only for 15 minutes, you will be surprised at how much better you will feel doing this small thing. Here's a hug. You are not alone. There are some intelligent, great people on DL who care about you. I'm one of them.

Take several personality tests (about 5) to see where you fall) on the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator.

This was one of the top 10 things I've ever done in my life. I think it might help you find how you perceive the world & explain why your brain works the way it does. Once you've done this, never apologize for how your brain works. No one type is better/worse than another. Each one has different skills & characteristics.

There are 16 different personality types & instead of being a single one 100%, you might be a percentage of two (I'm 80% of one & 20% of another).

This might put you on a path of greater self acceptance & keep you from apologizing for the way your mind works.

If you learn all 16 types you will better understand others & how they react to the world around them (making you smarter, more tolerate & self aware).

I also recommend doing personality tests (5 each) of your closest relatives & friends & your current boss. It will help you understand how their brains work as well & where they were coming from when they were interacting with you. It doesn't mean forgiving them but understanding them will bring you an additional peace of mind that you probably didn't have before. This knowledge will help you in any future interactions with them. When to engage them & when to ignore their personality traits that they can't always control.

I'm 80% INTP & was always told growing up by adults to look people in the eye when talking to them but we INTPs don't like doing that most of the time & I was made to feel guilty about it. After finding out about this, it was a huge sense of relief that I wasn't being disrespectful but just going with the natural flow of my wired brain. I do try to still look people in the eye but if I fall short I no longer beat myself up over it. Others are raised not to trust people who won't look others in the eye but that is their loss because I'm a brutally honest & loyal person who seldom tells an untruth.

I hope this post will help someone out there better understand themselves & others.

R117 I just went to their website, it costs $49.95 to take the test. Does this sound about right to you?

R117 here. I should mention that you can find several different Myers- Briggs personality test online & that they should all be free (never pay for them).

They don't take very long (5 to 30 minutes depending on how many questions each one asks). They should give you your personality type for free after the final question is answered.

My first test came back INTP. My second one came back my 20% personality type. The other 3 I did confirmed which one was the majority & which was the minority type so that's why most people should take more than one test to see if they fall between two different types.

Thanks R119

9 Hurtful Things Parents Tell Teens

This is how I spent my twenties, OP, learning to behave like a normal person with a future, and not the abused kid I had been. You have the advantage over me in that you know exactly what you're doing, I didn't really understand the process I was going through as I did it but you do.

So my advice to you is to study people, see how they behave in the kind of situations your crazy mother couldn't handle. Pick out people who you think are professional or good-natured, and not at all crazy or dysfunctional, see how they behave towards their co-workers, family, or friends. Watch their everyday behavior, see what it is they do that gets people to like them or accept them as professionals. See how they share ideas, see how a really professional person can discourage bad ideas and encourage good ones. See how disagreements are handled. Note what other people talk about and what topics they avoid, and in what situations. Slowly and carefully, try to behave like the people you admire, not the people you grew up with.

it's a pity you can't ask such people how they handle their finances, but that's just not done. Not unless you have a close friend who willingly steps into the role of mentor or life coach, but there's plenty of good financial advice on this thread. But if you want to wrap all the good financial advice up into one sentence it'd be this: SPEND LESS THAN YOU EARN.

The Myers-Briggs test is losing cred. There's a new book - The Personality Brokers - out about the mother-daughter team who invented it.

Psychologists think it's nonsense stressing that the test is unreliable and useless. While acolytes insist that your type will never change, people often get different results each time they take the test — suggesting, well, otherwise. Plus, the test insists on binaries of behavior that do not exist; for example, extraversion and introversion are often viewed on a continuum, which allows for the possibility of ambiversion. Even Myers-Briggs’s own data suggests that most people fall somewhere in between introversion and extroversion. [bold]“It has the intellectual content of a fortune cookie,”[/bold] former University of Tulsa psychology professor Robert Hogan told The Boston Globe in 2004. (Even Jung did not believe that it was possible to classify people in this way. “Every individual is an exception to the rule,” he wrote.) If the MBTI were primarily used as a tool for self-knowledge, this would be disappointing but not dangerous. However, its prominence as a tool for corporate America has made it more sinister than silly.

Don't befriend or partner with those with rage issues, moochers, anyone always broke, anyone with more than one bankruptcy, anyone who is mentally ill but refuses to medicate or someone who has been arrested more than once.

Befriend or partner with those who have their shit together. Stable people, stable in all ways but especially mentally and emotionally. Watch how these stable people build happy, productive lives and mimic them.

Therapy if you can afford it.

Good luck, OP. You can and will make a peaceful, productive life for yourself no matter your family and upbringing!

Aaron Doughty has some self help vids OP

OP, if you are alone for the holidays, a lot of local churches have a holiday program with music and a choir. That’s very Christmassy and you don’t need to bring anyone. Or look around for local choirs performing and go see that. It’s a good way to enjoy the season without all the material stuff and family drama.

OP If you need something to do on the holiday itself, you might consider helping to serve dinner at a shelter.

You'll be helping others and as I suspect you already know through experience, it can be better to give than receive

The fact that you know you come from dysfunction is a huge advantage. Many people just think it was normal and they think that healthy families are just on TV like the waltons.

You are ahead of the game.

Someone posted a personality test here showing people's faces and you had to judge which one was scary, dangerous, a good person.

Well that test punched my ticket better than any personality test ever. I think it was a YT vid. I understood myself better than I ever did.

Thansk for all the help here in this thread, I really appreciate it and the advice will help me out a lot, others too I hope

I'm going to be alone for Christmas and don't have any plans aside from trying to relax and sleep because I've been working a lot and only have about two days off between now and Christmas. It's a good idea to go out and volunteer but I think I really need to have a day where I can just sleep in. I don't mean to sound selfish or uncaring.

I was out the other day but couldn't find a suit that was close to fitting, but I'll keep looking.

You - the one with the inspirational crap. Knock it off I’ll bring the Fuck Off Troll over.

There’s going to be a bunch of pre-Christmas and after-Christmas sales, so go on the website of any stores you’re interested in now, and sign up for them to send you emails about their sales.

At this time of year a lot of stores give “preferred customers” (anybody that signs up) coupons for a discount, and also will tell you in advance of sales. A lot of department stores allow their signed up customers an early-bird day to order, before everyone else. Also, some department stores have after Christmas sales online that start on Christmas, so if you’re just hanging out you can check them out.

If you know you’re hard to fit, go someplace to be professionally fitted. Also, if you go to a men’s clothing store, the sales people may be able to tell you about a brand that suits your frame.

A lot of men buy inexpensive suits at JC Penney’s. They will hem them for you in-house for a fee. Go on the Penny’s website and sign up for emails. Check your emails and find out when their Christmas sales start. A lot of times around Christmas, department stores will have “flash sales” with steep discounts that only last a day or two. They can come at odd times.

Read the comments in the attached article. A salesperson that works at Penney’s suggests a JFerrar suit as a good value.

I got curious about JFerrar and went over to look. They’re having a sale and they’re pretty reasonable. They have slim fit suits, which might suit your build.

But R122, doesn't your mimicking freak people the hell out?

I do kinda like and understand R125 but that "coach" is a typical deufy white guy.

Curious as to your age R121

Another vote for the JF Ferrar suits. Penney's runs sales all the time. Sign up on Penney's website and use their coupon codes when you check out and/or ask when you check out if there are any coupons that day. They usually have one right there at the register they will use for you.

I looked at those suits online R133, R137. How do you select the length of the jacket? By your height?

Hi OP, not R133 or R137, but I think you select length of the jacket according to torso length, not necessarily height. E.g., some people are tall but have a short torso. Some people are short or medium height but have a longer torso.

I'm 5'5 if it matters. .

Here you go, OP. Besides, the guy doing the explanation is quite a cutie. Based upon your height, your measurement, after you figure out your chest size would be a short. Based upon your slimness, I would guess something like a 36 or 38 s (for short).

There's nothing wring with resting over a holiday, OP (R130). It sounds like you need and deserve it! I hope that your days off are peaceful ones.

16 Psychological Paradoxes That Make You Behave Strangely

Is there a way to override and ‘delete’ a particular memory of a verbally-abusive criticism levelled at you from a toxic/NPD loser in the family?

About seven years ago my nasty father decided to channel his own dead father and venomously hiss that I’m “full of shit” and “good for nothing”, around a full family dinnertable. He’s also acted in a creepy bipolar way with me, joking and jocular one day and cold/silent/punishing the next. Ever since I’ve been completely stalled in my personal and professional life, too scared to seek success or intimacy and even having trouble basically asserting myself. I’ve tried various CBT techniques as well as trauma reassociation to try and move past it but I still feel afraid. Suggestions welcome.

Do your birth chart. You need your exact time of birth though. Several are available free online

R140 It does! Definitely make sure you stay in the "short" section. Men's suites are measured by chest size and jacket length. You're looking for something in your approximate chest size and "S". Don't get offended by sit - this ensures your sleeves and jacket length are appropriate.

When you wear a suit coat, the sleeves should just clear the bone of your wrist. When you drop your hands straight down and curl your fingers up to the middle of your palm, the length of your jacket should just touch your fingers. I'm 5'6" - a properly fitted suit makes a big difference in how you present yourself but also how you feel.

It also saves a lot of money. If you buy a regular suit (I'm a 40S), you wind up spending a lot of money in alterations.

You measure your waist around the mid section, about 2 inches above your belly button, not at your hips. A suit doesn't fit like jeans. Men almost always make this mistake and the pants don't fit correctly.

I'm a cheap son of a gun, too. I grew up pretty insanely poor. Like, a new pair of shoes when school started and underwear at christmas poor. I'm not poor anymore, but I remember buying my first suit when I was 20 years old and what an impression it made on me.

I hate paying retail, it just bugs me. I shop Nordstrom Rack, Sakes Off Fifth and ... my favorite place is online. Decalo's. Sure, it's last year's suits. Ask me if I care. I've bought the same suits sold at Bloomies and Saks - a couple of times for $50 and paid about $50 for simple tailoring.

A good quality suit should be lined. A good quality suit should be wool, not poly. I'm horrible to shop with as my granny was a seamstress and taught me how to pull and tug at seams to tell junk from quality. There's a lot of junk out there and the quality of workmanship and how buttons are attached is pretty shoddy - even on expensive suits. Nothing's hand sewn anymore, so it falls off.

There is *nothing* wrong with going to a consignment shop in an expensive area and buying quality suits there, either. You can sometimes buy much better suits for much less money than if you bought it new. As long as there are no stains, tears, wear you're in good shape. Better consignment shops won't sell something that's not in "like new" and I don't mean the local St. Vinnie's. I mean the fancy kind that are for profit.

Your shoes matter, too. I'd check the consignment shop and if you can get quality shoes like Allen Edmunds, get that. They're expensive in a store. The last thing - spend the $12 on regular manicures. Really. Haircuts and manicures matter. You set yourself apart, just a bit, with better grooming.

He only said that once, R144? Jeez, that was my narcissistic mother's idea of normal dinner conversation, from early childhood on!

But seriously, I've found that the way to get over those insults is to realize that she really didn't know shit, when she said those things she was just trying to make herself feel better about whatever was bothering her at the moment. That's all she's ever cared about, really, and that everything she's ever said or done comes back to that - her feelings and how she feels about herself. In her head I have no real substance, which means that nothing she says about me has any validity.

Bump

Relax, R148! It's only been dormant for an hour; that's not long in DL time.

R144, I'm sorry that that happened to you. This reaction:

[quote]Ever since I’ve been completely stalled in my personal and professional life, too scared to seek success or intimacy

seems out of proportion to a comment ― no matter how cruel ― that was made nearly a decade ago, and that's what worries me about your post.

There's no easy fix for this kind of pain, as you already know. But I think there are two major approaches: "attack the problem," and "fill your life with something else that's wonderful." The latter seems like it may not be possible for you right now, in your current state of fear and paralysis. So I think you should give the former approach another go. You said that you tried CBT, which was a really positive move, but CBT does tend to be highly pragmatic and short-term. Perhaps you need to select a therapist that you feel comfortable with, and commit to seeing this person not intensively, but steadily, over a longer period of time, while you work on taking small steps forward.

Let Go Of Anxiety Before Sleep

The Belief Reset Button

Find a decent ancestor in your family tree and promise to do right by them. Imagine them guiding you. This approach always works.

R144 The fucker induced trauma. Emotional abuse is abuse. There’s no pop-psychology answer. Any of us who have been there - really been there will likely tell you the same thing. You can spend your life trying to find an answer on your own, but that’s like trying to perform surgery on yourself. R149 has the better approach. Get a therapist. It sounds complicated, but for the most part - therapy is highly interactive to help you build the tools so you can construct a better life.

You go to the dentist, I trust. Would you ignore getting a root canal just because the idea is frightening? No self help video or youtube nonsense will fix a bad tooth. Therapy is a damn good way to grab your father’s hand mid air, and never let him hurt you again.

If OP is still out there, it seems like you are interested in getting a suit. I think that's a good idea. If you can afford it, how about going to a store where a salesperson can help you? I think it would be hard to shop online for suits if you're not sure about your size, etc. IMO, it's all about the fit, especially at the shoulders. Good luck, OP!

Try Relaxing Sleep Music

Dear OP, I haven't read every post in this thread but I have to say I love you. I love that you're taking responsibility for your life and thinking about your place in the world. Plus, you write very well. You are no dummy! Believe in yourself. Things will start to change as you work on yourself.

I am a college graduate retired from a good career and I still have those thoughts of uselessness that you're experiencing. I do dumb things all the time. Last week I started a fire in the microwave because I put the wrong bag in by mistake. I felt so stupid!

Anyway, best of luck to you. You sound like a wonderful person.

Yeah, every grown man should have a decent suit. Something to wear to job interviews, weddings, funerals, work days where you wat to look impressive, social occasions where you want to look classy... or middle-class. If you cant' find one used or at an outlet center, it's worth saving up a bit and waiting for a sale.

You know what they say, OP, if you want to get ahead, dress like you already are one step ahead of where you are.

Here OP is some ideas to help you fit in with others =

11 Powerful Ways To Make A Great First Impression

I am going to suggest that you do some volunteering. You will make connections with good people and you may end up with a good job that can help keep you out of poverty. There are so many good and bad people in this world and as Mr. Rogers always said "Look for the helpers". This is a key to a door that may bring surprises.

Some romantic advice for ya OP

I'm still here, R154, I've just been working a lot. I can't afford a suit right now but hopefully soon. You're probably right that I should go and try them on instead of buying one online. Like I said before, my shoulders are pretty narrow so I'm probably some hard to fit size. I don't go out to social things, R157 so luckily I don't need one right away but I'll keep looking in case I find one that I can afford.

I know volunteering is good, R159 and I did some for awhile but right now it's just about impossible for me because I'm working weekends too. I'm hoping I can quit my other job in a few months so maybe then I'll have some time.

do not chastise yourself for all your mistakes. That is how we learn. People aren't born knowing how to paint or to keep the oven door open on broil. These are things that are either taught or we learn and usually learn them by making mistakes. There are no mistakes just learning experiences. All those mistakes you listed, I'm sure you will never make them again.

You must be able to find a few spare hours to volunteer OP. Finding time to help others will make a difference in your life too.

OP, you can get a cheapish suit at men's wearhouse- talk to the salesperson and ask for suits that suit (pun intended) your build. You can't go through life feeling less than everyone else, as you have equal value. I grew up in a household with limited means, but now have a lot of money. The thing I learned is that I am the same person, I just have more money. Feel good about yourself- no apologies for the hand you were dealt. Life is short, enjoy as much as you can!

I just try for stable. The best job I can find with my lack of education and a partner who is boring but reliable. I really wanted a life that I could depend on.

Go back to school (at night) and attach yourself like a barnacle to a mentor. Mentors are everything particularly when the family unit has been unstable.

If there is no time to volunteer one thing you can do is simply be kind to people both on your job and in your life. People respond to it and you will receive kindness in return. Not from everyone, of course, but from kind people. Be selective in who you hang out with. Spend more time with kind, caring people (and loving and funny) and limit your time with jerks.

Oscar Wilde once said, "We are all in the gutter but some of us are looking at the stars."

Dream big and look for beauty, in nature and in little things.

If the OP is working two jobs, he doesn't have time to volunteer and we can drop that point. And if in the future he is able to support himself on one job, I would advise him to use the time for night school classes rather than volunteering. Of course volunteering can teach you all sorts of valuable skills and remind you how much you have to be proud of and grateful for, but night school can get a person out of dead-end job hell. I did it, many of my co-workers have done it, others are still hacking away at homework during their breaks. Look into it, OP, when you figure out where you want to go from here.

But yes, DO be helpful to others even if you really don't have time to volunteer. Help friends, help little old ladies who are lost, and especially help your co-workers. It's a way to work on your social skills, which people like us do need to polish, and a way to expand your role at work. Help other people when they get behind and you gain social acceptance even if you're not gregarious, plus you impress your boss and maybe expand your skill set a bit. Do it.

And lastly, YES, if you manage to make a stable life for yourself after coming from the mess you come from, be aware that you have accomplished something monumental! So many people take a stable, comfortable, cozy life for granted, when in fact it's extremely rare in this vale of tears. So yes, never apologize for making it your goal.

Even if he's working two jobs he should have a few extra hours a week to volunteer, R168. The experience and the skills learned could help him immensely and possibly help direct him into a stable career. I agree that education should be a priority but if the OP is currently unable to attend night school, volunteering is a great way to gain experience and perhaps insight into potential careers.

Some great advice here, especially R42. My own background was chaotic, when I got out of that, I learned from watching people - how they conducted themselves in restaurants or in stores or at work/college. As for manners, those I learned from books, mostly Dorothy L Sayers and other writers from that era (and yes, Emily Post believe it or not). Home and self care I learned best by making mistakes - and I've made some big mistakes. But I only made them once. Good luck OP, you are already way ahead of a lot of people.

Agree with much said here.

First thing, give yourself much credit for being self aware enough to recognize that your bad start in life is a disadvantage, which you wish to overcome.

Second, volunteer in your spare time. You will meet other volunteers who are likely kind. You need to be around positive people. Plus, doing good will help you feel good about yourself.

Third, watch the way others comport themselves. You can learn much about manners, ways to/not to behave, how to interact in work groups.

Lastly, you are young and have a lifetime to build and improve yourself. You will do fine and I wish you well.

Oh yeah... the reference to Emily Post reminds me that I read and re-read the Miss Manners books back in the 80s, when I was young and trying to become less feral.

I highly recommend her column, and any books by Miss Manners (Judith Martin) you can find. She's not only an expert on etiquette and social skills, and a very funny and clever writer. Really, look her up, and spend a couple of dollars on her books on basic etiquette. This is the stuff that well-brought-up people learn from their parents, and people like us have to learn as adults.

^ I also learned etiquette by reading the Miss Manners books, which I borrowed from the library. She does a great job of explaining the reasoning behind the rules so it all makes sense. And her snarky sense of humor is a plus.

Some great ideas and advice in this thread.

I'd like to ask why you're against volunteering though? You'd be bound to meet some wonderful people and gain valuable experience at the same time. Additionally, you'll have something to do in your spare time instead of sitting around and getting nothing accomplished. Think about it OP.

"I'd like to ask why you're against volunteering though? "

Personally, because I think that when he has some spare time it would be better spent in night school. OP said he lacks education, and that's a big problem in today's job market. Night school gets him skills and looks good on his resume, it shows his current bosses and other potential employers that he's determined to make something of his life and not just stay in dead-end jobs forever.

Volunteering is great, but it's not the be-all and end-all, and the OP has already said he's working two jobs and can't do it right now. And BTW, volunteering is not a universal panacea, particularly when none of the people pushing "volunteering" have suggesting what the OP ought to volunteer AT. Read to old folks? Fundraise for LGBT causes? Rake the forests?

Everyone has some time to spare, R175, even if it's only a few hours a week.

I think the suit thing has been asked and answered. But nobody mentioned getting measured. That is SOP for a new suit until they have your size on file.

Most department stores will measure you for free. Even if you don’t buy from there.

Don’t take the ‘fake it till you make it’ thing too far. Remember, anybody worth their salt can tell a fake.

But certain gestures and a nod to the gods of fortune is ok. Try to stay true to yourself, that doesn’t mean you can’t learn new skills. But nobody likes a poser.

Re: volunteering. I respect the pros & cons. OP, based on what you've said already, I would say to not feel guilty about not doing volunteer work. I've had multiple jobs (2 to 3 at one time, plus school) and it's plain tiring. Even one job can be tiring. Also, depending on what field you go into (e.g., a job where you help people), your job may already feel like volunteer work. As a previous poster said, OP is still working on his education (and increasing his earning power) and that should be a priority. Just my opinion.

[quote]Also, depending on what field you go into (e.g., a job where you help people), your job may already feel like volunteer work.

That's a great point, R179. For example, I would never expect a teacher to do volunteer work on the side; that just seems like it's inviting burnout. Sometimes, what a person does 9-5 (or longer!) is already a sacrifice.

I know, R174 it's just that I'm always so tired and making enough money to pay for everything is a struggle right now. When I work my second job I don't get home till about 1 am and if it's during the week I have to be at my other job by 8. I hope I won't have to do it for much longer but rent, bills and food is so expensive that I need to work two jobs for now and still I can barely afford everything unless I work some overtime too. I'm going to keep applying for better jobs, but I don't think I'll get anything above min unless I go back to school.

OP before you commit to an education program, talk to counselors/advisors at a few different community colleges. Ask what fields are currently hiring and have good outlooks for the future. In our community, welders are in such high demand that some training programs are subsidized by employers and unions. Some states also have workforce training grants for free or reduced-cost training in certain in-demand fields. Your state’s labor department website may have info.

Wishing you a restful, family-free holiday.

Regarding night school, that's for the future. Right now you obviously need to pay the rent and come up with a suit and work on maybe turning one of your jobs into something that will pay a living wage, that's a start and it's a damn good start. The question of night school vs. volunteering is for the future, but it's a question you can keep in the back of your mind.

In your few free moments, think about what you'd really like to do for a living if you were free to choose, and look into what pays a living wage, maybe find some field that checks both boxes. Then, look into what kind of training is necessary to get a job in that field - apprenticeship, college program, volunteer work, unpaid internship, whatever. It will seem hugely daunting at first, but there's no hurry. I did it, it probably took me ten years from my first night school class to graduating from nursing school, but since I didn't have a college degree or anyone willing to pay my way, that was my best option and it was worth taking the trouble. I had a rough start in life but I didn't want to spend my life just surviving, so I changed my life for the better through education (and a bit of volunteering). It can be done.

Thanks, R182, R183, I love animals and would like to take a vet assistant or vet tech course one day. I'll have to see how many jobs there are in that first, but it's something I'd like to try to do in the future. I don't know if that pays so great but it's got to be better than what I make now, because even with two jobs I can barely afford groceries and rent some times.

I'm looking forward to Christmas day because I'll finally have a day off. I'm not going to do anything aside from sleep in and some minor stuff like laundry, relax and be with my cat.

I hope everyone has a nice Christmas.

Enjoy your Christmas Day, OP! And have a very happy and successful New Year.

Thank you, R185 and same to you!

Wishing you the best in the New Year, OP! Please consider doing something special tomorrow so that you're not alone.

You want to break out of the rut you're in, so shake things up a bit and go do something different. Maybe attend a church service or even a just a couple of hours of volunteering to help those less fortunate? It would only take a few hours and you'd still have the rest of the day to unwind.

Are you a worrywart OP?

I'm in a similar boat. As an adult, I tried reaching out to others and forming a family of friends, but only found abusive and manipulative people that hurt me.

Yeah, sometimes, R188. Some things I shouldn't let bother me but other things are legit.

OP, May I ask how old you are?

22, R191.

Merry Christmas to you and your cat, OP!

OP, am sending you a hug. You are 22 and over time will create the life you want. Lots of love to you.

OP - I'm glad that you're only 22. You are coming to these ideas at a very good time in your life.

It's not too late to improve your reading skills. If you had, or have, a favorite teacher from your HS days, talk to them. Be upfront, and ask them if they know of any resources to help adults who want to overcome reading issues. Often the school itself has night classes for that; sometimes they partner with help in the county, and it's almost always free. I realize you are working two jobs a week and scraping to find free time, but if you can do it, it's an investment in your future that will pay dividends. You may want to see if the teacher knows of any tests. It may be that you're a better listening learner or visual learner than a reader, etc.

In general, OP, one key piece of advice I would give you is that you are your own best advocate. Don't be afraid to ask for help. I'm almost 50 and I suffered through most of my 20s before my life started to turn around. I wish I had been strong enough to say to someone, "I want to do this, but I don't know how. Can you help me?"

I am a lot like you - smart in some ways, but with gaps in my knowledge. I had two decent, loving parents, but because of illness (hers) and alcoholism (his) and the fact that I was the youngest, I raised myself in many ways. I am still paying for that. I keep my family at a distance. I care for them, but I have never been nor will I ever be a priority for them. Water the flowers that bloom and grow, OP, not the ones who will never bloom or bud.

Some excellent thoughts here, I’m bookmarking this thread.

I’m turning 27 soon and I’m freaking out that I’m dunzo because I wasted my education/youth in deadend town with a deadend LMC family and being depressed about it (years of therapy to figure that out!) I’m still stuck there with my enormous hick tribe and feel like I’m being sucked too deep into the mire to move. I’d get in a car or on a bus and go but I have no drivers licence and I know my crazy folks would track me down (like they did at College - hillbillies, ugh).

I wanted to write and direct plays/films as a kid and do still, but besides a mediocre Arts degree and a lot of trivial knowledge I have nothing to show for that aspiration. It’s my fault for not applying myself in college and latching onto an older successful writer like a leech, but I didn’t know to do that at the time nor was I mentally stable enough.

I now know I need a mentor and to volunteer ample time to someone who can get me an in as well as take tech classes, but I’m wondering if there’s any pursuit or job that works as a kind of repertory training for scriptwriting? I’d especially like to get good “on the job”, as it were (being that I feel over-the-hill already..)

R196 It's never too late.

"How to break a loser family cycle?"

Get your shit together, OP. Yes, YOU, OP. It's YOUR decision to do so.

Do not clap back at me. Sit you ass(es) back down. I survived the horrors of seven foster homes by the time I reached the age of 18. I made a decision based on choice: accept the shit of what had taken place, letting it influence my future; or put that shit in that past and take responsibility for myself in order to live my life beyond it. I refused to be a statistic.

Miss R198 has a point. She's a little socially inept in how to express it, and a bit negative, but her base point IS important to hear. YOU are in charge. Change may be incremental, so it's up to you to focus, stay driven and make it happen.

I wanted change in my life and I reached my goal (about 10 years ago), but it took a good 5 years of work and focus to get there. Just wishing for a better job, nicer place, boyfriend, etc. doesn't do any good if you don't dedicate yourself to a long term plan to make changes.

I think the OP is already ahead of r198, r199.

He’s clearly already done what you have belatedly recommended.

So I'm going to save for a suit, I tried some on so I know what size to buy if there's a sale online. If you could only have one suit, what color would you get? Just wondering if I should get a gray one like this, or should I get a darker one?

Here's the pic,

R202 Depending on your coloring (hair, eyes, skin) that’s a beautiful suit and a good choice.

Thanks, r203, I like it and it's a good price.

My skin is pretty fair and I have some freckles, my hair is blond with a bit of red (sometimes looks more light red) and blue eyes. Would that suit still be okay?

It’s perfect.

Look for a navy one for your second one when you get going.

OP, I've copied and pasted this entire thread into a Word document and filed it under Life Skills. Being smart is about asking the right questions, and that's you OP.

I broke out of the same type of situation. It worked for me because I don't let any family member influence my life in any way. I was never close to any of my immediate family so that makes it easier. I don't feel any need for them so I think that makes it harder for them to manipulate me. They never contact me unless they need money, which I refuse to do. If they had their way I'd be supporting all of them.

R207, I could have written the same. Seven years ago, one sister stopped speaking to me because I refused to co-sign a student loan for my niece. I'm sure my niece was told she'd never have to make payments because Stupid Aunt will get stuck with them. The student loan request dropped a few weeks after the same sister asked me to help her get a mortgage for a beach duplex neither of us could afford ("Isn't this a great idea? Your name goes on the mortgage, but my name goes on the title! I'll let you live in the front unit!"). I am younger than my grifter siblings by several years, and they still believe I am the same gullible, hypersensitive child they manipulated long ago. To them I am nothing but a high FICO score and a potential organ donor for their children and grandchildren.

Every Xmas sucks because every Xmas reminds me of my family.

OP, I would focus on school and a program like ACoA to learn how to put a stable life together and re-parent yourself. There is even a Reddit forum for ACoA to give you a sense and as a time saver with your sched right now.

Volunteering is great but given your time constraints, maybe not feasible right now. I do not understand the posters suggesting it will lead to a well paying career, that is NOT likely.

Look into community college and online classes, given your schedule. I cannot recall what you said your living sitch is but might it be worth it to rent a room/have roommates for a while to lessen the financial pressure and to free up some time?

IT security/forensics seems to be an area with continuing job growth. I know 2 people who got decent jobs with a 2 year associate degree from community college. There is typically an internship as part of the coursework, if it goes well, that typically leads to a job. Both of the people I know got positions with very large consulting firms and have decent salaries, benefits, etc. It is not the most exciting work but it is unlikely to be eliminated by IT in the near future.

Good luck, OP.

OP, if it's not too late, I would vote for a darker-colored suit, black or dark gray. IMO, black almost always looks better than medium gray.

Stuck in a loser family? You need to whirlybird your ass out of there!

10 Easy Ways To Deal With Anxiety At Any Age

The video above made me anxious. Too long to get to the point. Turned it off.

Hi OP, here is some advice that I hope you will find helpful.

You will make mistakes. It's ok. You have not lived if you haven't made them, simple as that. When you make a mistake, forgive yourself. Laugh at yourself if you can. Clean up the mess, apologize if necessary, and then try to learn from it. One thing I suggest you learn from making mistakes and forgiving yourself, is learning that your are not perfect, and neither is anyone else. So when others make mistakes, as long as they are not toxic people you need to get away from, forgive them and move on. Remember, you are not perfect and perfection should not be your standard. You are just as good as everybody else, no better or worse.

People here have been wisely telling you to learn by watching how people you admire behave and copying them. However, the world will sometimes bring you adversarial teachers, meaning, people who are abusive, hurtful, or simply just rude and annoying. They have lessons to teach you too, and that lesson is how NOT to behave. If you disliked how someone treated you, or you found a certain comment hurtful, for example, resolve to not do that to others. I find this really empowering and helps me to move out of negativity. For example, my father would often yell at me when I was trying to complete a task and he felt I was taking too long. I have resolved to never make anyone feel rushed or stupid because they are having a difficult time finishing something or it's taking too long by my standards. I've resolved to be extra kind because I did not find a lot of kindness while growing up. I've chosen empathy over resentment and anger.

From one survivor of childhood abuse to another: please, at some point in your life, see a good therapist. Someone who will help you work through some of the abuse and neglect you survived. Especially as you had alcoholic parents, there are many therapists out there who specialize in this.

You mentioned that you have difficulties reading. I will add to the chorus of people who have suggested you start reading to improve your skills in reading and writing. If you do suspect you have a learning disability, most community colleges have a learning disabilities office where they will get you tested for free. You should do this if you can before you begin your college education. The community colleges do it for free, but four year colleges do not. English is not my first language, and reading was the way that I learned it. You don't have to do a ton of reading either. Pick a book at your reading level, in a subject you enjoy, and then read every day for 20 - 30 minutes, no excuses. You'll be amazed at how fast your reading comprehension and writing skills will improve by doing this.

Lastly, enjoy the little things. I know this may sound silly, but it really helps. Even if it's a good cup of coffee in the morning, or sleeping in on a day off, really savor it.

Good luck OP! We are all cheering you on.

If you have done the R117 Myers-Briggs personality post OP, then you can see what famous people or characters are the same type as yourself.

Here are the Muppet ones =

Here are some other famous groupings of the 16 personalities that you can find online = Marvel, DC, Star Trek, Grey's Anatomy, Lord Of The Rings, Game Of Thrones, The Walking Dead, Star Wars, Disney, the Harry Potter gang & even My Little Pony!!!

"Lastly, enjoy the little things. I know this may sound silly, but it really helps."

R215 is correct about this, take it from someone who's been through the same struggle you're setting yourself to, OP.

You and I weren't dealt promising starting hands in life, and there's always the temptation to give into envy, resentment, and bitterness, because other people seem to have it so much better. Do your best to avoid that as much as possible, and yes, one of the ways to do that is to take as much enjoyment from the little things in life as possible. Every time you drop your worries for a moment and enjoy a good cup of coffee, or admire the flowers in the local park, or get laid, you're wresting a moment of joy from a cold, cruel world. Every moment of happiness is a triumph, a little victory over stress and worry, and proof that you're a person who enjoys life and not the loser your mother undoubtedly said you were. Hopefully there will be more time to "enjoy the roses" in the future, but for now, take a little while to do so each and every day.

Wise words from R215 & R218 and so many others on this thread.

Cheering you on OP and learning a lot from the thread you started. Thanks!

R296 Yes. I think that would work. Consider your choice in tie carefully, so that it reflects your best assets. Let the tie pick up and amplify your eyes. A great gray suit is a man’s go-to choice.

From Hamlet, Act 1 scene 3: (Polonius)

There; my blessing with thee!

And these few precepts in thy memory

See thou character. Give thy thoughts no tongue,

Nor any unproportioned thought his act.

Be thou familiar, but by no means vulgar.

Those friends thou hast, and their adoption tried,

Grapple them to thy soul with hoops of steel;

But do not dull thy palm with entertainment

Of each new-hatch'd, unfledged comrade. Beware

Of entrance to a quarrel, but being in,

Bear't that the opposed may beware of thee.

Give every man thy ear, but few thy voice;

Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgment.

Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy,

But not express'd in fancy; rich, not gaudy;

For the apparel oft proclaims the man,

And they in France of the best rank and station

Are of a most select and generous chief in that.

Neither a borrower nor a lender be;

For loan oft loses both itself and friend,

And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.

This above all: to thine ownself be true,

And it must follow, as the night the day,

Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Farewell: my blessing season this in thee!

my two favourite:

Neither a borrower nor a lender be

TO THINE OWNSELF BE TRUE

Op, apply for a Penney's charge and you can pay the suit off. They also send you coupons all the time. They should approve you right on the spot.

Thanks to everyone for being so helpful! I can't even tell you how much it means to me.

I have a hard time knowing what to do/say in situations, R215. My whole life I usually get things wrong so now I just keep to myself as much as possible. It was the same when I was a kid because I always ended up upsetting my mom no matter what I did. iF I made something to eat when she was out and didn't make anything for her I'd gt yelled at, but if I made something for her she'd yell at me that she didn't want that shit, but if I didn't eat then she'd be mad that I expected her to cook for me. It was things like that and I couldn't win no matter what I did. It was really just easier if I stayed in my room, so now I think I've kind of carried on like that. She call me names and find ways to knock me down, she did it to my brother too but more with me, and I know for a fact that she hates me. There's lots of other stuff too but I don't blame her for all of my issues because I think I'd be shy and awkward anyway.

People here say to try and do what other people do, but I'm not sure how to do that?? Do you mean stuff like basic manners? I'm pretty quiet at work but I'm polite if I have to talk to others. General manners I'm okay with but it's hard for me to interact because I worry about what people will think or what would happen if I say the wrong thing. I work hard and I think my bosses know that, but I'm pretty much ignored by people which I actually dn't mind.

The problem I have with reading is that it seems like I skip or miss things unless I read something slowly or over and over. Reading directions/instructions is hard, like I don't get the information or I forget what I just read, and it's the same when I'm trying to write something out, it's like I lose whatever I read and what I'm trying to say, and suddenly I'm thinking of something else. I want to go back to college but I'm also worried I'll fail.

OP, in general, I think you just have to be yourself. This is an anonymous forum, so it's OK here, but I wouldn't share all my insecurities with random people. One strategy is to "act as if." Act as if you didn't have a crazy, F'd up mom, etc. I know it's a corny AA saying, but it's true: Don't compare your insides to someone else's outsides.

You write well in your posts. I think you're a good writer.

We all make mistakes, that's the only way to learn. Just put one foot in front of the other. Take things one at at time.

Thanks, R225, I don't tell anyone anything. I made that mistake once a few years ago and told someone about my background but now I don't say anything to anyone. Even when people were talking about Christmas I just lied and said I was going to my mom's.

Hi again,

You only have to do your best. Don't aim for perfection. I don't think people want you to copy anyone, but if you notice the way someone acts in general, or in situations that make you uncomfortable, and you think that they handled the situation well, or that they behave in a way you admire, take note. That's all. There is no way for you to be exactly like someone else, no matter how much you admire them, because that would be going against who you are and there is no other you. If you are awkward, be awkward. I'm awkward too sometimes, and I used to be worse. You don't have to impress anyone.

OP, you seem to have a lack of self-worth due to the horrible emotional abuse you suffered from your mother and family. Your lack of self-worth is blinding you from the fact that you are a lovable, intelligent, and capable young man. You have made it this far in spite of all that you've gone through! But I imagine this is hard for you to believe, and this is why seeking a professional therapist is a good idea for you. In most cities, there is a resource line that may help you find a good therapist. In my city is 211. Or maybe you get insurance through your job, you may be able to call your insurance and ask for a lsit of therapist. However, if you are not ready to meet with a therapist, don't force yourself. It is an option that is out there that might help you. Other people here have mentioned some self-help books and also, meeting with a social worker to work on life skills, and maybe this is where you'd like to start.

I want to reiterate the importance of getting tested for a learning disability. Is there a community college near you? I know you are working really hard right now and money may be tight, but when you get a chance, go to your nearest community college and visit their disabilites office. Ask them about getting tested for learning disabilities since you intend to be a student soon. Besides that, at community colleges, they often have life skills, career skills, and home economics classes you can take, and also classes on basic carpentry, mechanics, and the like, to give you more life skills.

Lastly OP, I am a survivor of childhood abuse. I survived by telling myself every day, reminding myself, that I deserve better in my life and I resolved every day, one step at a time, to live the best life I could. This means that I have to be nice to myself, every moment of every day. I treat myself like I am my own best friend, sometimes like I'm my own Mom and Dad. I know this might sound hokey and stupid, but I started from square one and had to do things like this just to get out of bed. Whenever I felt like beating myself up, I would remind myself that I was done with abuse, that I was done with my family's abuse, and I was not going to continue down that path by abusing myself in any way, whether verbally or emotionally, or physically through substance abuse. Yes, it's hard and you are going to make mistakes. Embrace those mistakes. Laugh about the things that go wrong. Thank God you have the freedom to make mistakes. And then get up again. Cry if you have to. But keep getting up. One step at a time. Everything you learn will help you and maybe someone else. Maybe someday you'll be on data lounge and a thread like this will pop up and you will be able to share your hard earned wisdom. By the way, I'm still learning and that's ok. We'll be learning till the day we die.

I wish you the very best OP, I am rooting for you.

"People here say to try and do what other people do, but I'm not sure how to do that?? Do you mean stuff like basic manners?"

Manners is part of it, but there are other social skills you can learn by watching people who are good at that sort of thing. Such as how to greet someone and make them feel welcome, watch how a good receptionist or salesperson greets people, the sort of body language they have and listen to what they say. Yes, trying to do the same yourself will feel fake and awkward at first, but it'll get easier with time, and after a while that feeling of "I don't know what to say" will ease up.

As for studying, well, it's not all reading. Some college students record entire lectures and play them back later, and what I used to do when I was in night school was read out pertinent bits of the chapters I was reading into a handheld recorder, and then I'd play my taped highlights and bullet points back while commuting to my job or doing housework. So yes, get tested for learning disabilities, but also be aware that there are study methods other than reading.

Oh, and also be aware that my method of taping and repetition will not work in math classes. For those, you just have to sit down and do the damn gruntwork of equations. Fuck maths.

11 Quick Ways To Get Over Failures

Making Goals For The New Year?

Forget Your New Year's Resolution

How To Create An Amazing 2019 With These Affirmations

From Monique Aipassa

200+ Self-Loving Affirmations

[quote]It could be worse, OP ... just imagine stumbling through life like [R5].

What the hell does that mean R8? I am NOT R5 but your remark is assinine.

OP - concentrate on improving your reading and writing skills, I would say, above and beyond charity work and volunteering.

Treating people, especially old people, politely and respectfully in your everyday life and can bring pleasure to the lives of others very effectively.

Honestly OP you write fine. If you need to read more, do. Find things you like to read and read every day.

R224. I’m going to encourage you to try failing at a few things. It’s okay. It’s better than okay. It helps you conquer a lot of fears that can cripple you in life.

Look, you’re obviously intelligent. You have nothing to fear in that regard. Fear of failure holds back most of us. Trying a few simple things that we don’t succeed at is really fine. Learning from failure is pretty damn liberating; it can release you from your greater fears. Like, trying softball and finding out you aren’t good at it is a lot less important than finding out softball bores you senseless.

But you try rockclimbing and it turns out you really enjoy it which surprises you.

8 Main Differences Between True Love & A Crush

Marry well & often.

Does anyone here have trouble telling if someone likes/interested in you or is just being nice?

Flirting or polite?

24 Signs Someone Likes You More Than Just A Friend

^ That’s definitely a challenge we all learn. You’re probably finding it a challenge to hint to other people that you’re interested without being too obvious, and the other person has just as much trouble guessing. I assume everyone’s being nice. It’s safer - especially these days. If the same person seems to be making more effort to be nice and responds to any efforts I make without being creepy, it can be worth a shot.

Not being creepy is really important. Like, it’s okay to bring in baked goods for your office. It’s creepy to bring in baked goods for one person. It’s okay to suggest a couple of people go for coffee, it might be pushing it to suggest just the one person.

Playing it light can make it less awkward and nobody gets their feelings hurt.

Track down a standard grammar guide, OP, and study it.

DL has it right in this regard - you will be judged.

How To Be More Self-Confident

How are you doing, OP? Thinking about you. There a a lot of good people on DL who care about you. I'm one of them.

Just the title of this thread breaks my heart. Big moose smooches, OP!

Thanks, R246 but my brother texted me and said that my mom is saying crazy things about me again. I'm trying not to let it bother me but it is.

Thanks, R247.

How To Stop Caring What People Think

5 Working Psychological Ways To Stop Caring

Thanks, R249.

Op R246 don't listen to the untrue nonsense. Let it go. They are poisoning their own lives by saying untrue things. Here's a hug (((()))

13 Crucial Things You Need To Learn By 30

Thanks, R251. I haven't even talked to my mom for a couple of years so I don't know why she's making up things about me now and lying to people about stuff from the past. I know it shouldn't bother me but it does, it's hard just letting it go but I'll try.

Thanks R252.

You asked about how you know if a person genuinely likes you. A person who genuinely likes you will be persistent. A "nice" person will ask you how you are, and even if you stare at the floor and mumble "fine, thanks", they'll accept that answer and move on. The person who genuinely likes you might say, "Are you sure? You seem a little down to me". That same person will remember a little detail about you. Maybe you mention that you like chocolate chip cookies. That person might leave a chocolate chip cookie on your desk sometime. It's those little details that differentiate.

A person who is genuinely sexually attracted to you will make an excuse to touch you, even just shaking your hand for one fraction of a second longer than "normal", or getting a little more in your "personal space" than the average person would. That person would also try to get you to share eye contact with him, and if your eyes do contact, he will smile at you. Or if you pass and he smiles at you, he might turn around 15 feet later to see if you've turned around. However, if you never acknowledge him, he might give up after awhile and assume you're not interested.

Op R253 with unbalanced people it doesn't matter. My sister has an untreated mental illness, I live 750 mikes away from her, have not seen or talked or been near her house for years. She calls other "family" members and tells them I am breaking in her house all the time, they tell her she is wrong. You can't talk straight to a crooked person. It's just the ramblings of an unbalanced person. Like a crazy person walking down the street yelling and talking to themselves. You don't need to hear that nonsense.

Sweep it out of your mind and tell whoever is reporting it to you, you prefer not to hear untrue things and aspersions on your character. Hugs

Some Dlers gave you some fashion advice up thread

but here are some more tips you might be able to use as well =

R249 has it right. Another form of abuse, but still abuse, where I grew up - and one day I learned not to give a damn what anyone thought. I already thought I didn't give a damn, but that was only for those outside my circle. One day I realised I could extend this to everyone I knew, and that was truly freeing.

Strangely enough, after that came better jobs, job promotions, etc. Very strange. I really was a doormat but didn't realise it.

Anyway. Stay strong OP. You are a much better man than you give yourself credit for.

Thanks, r257, R255. It means a lot to me because I don't ahve any one else to talk to about this stuff. I've been ahving some bad days lately, feeling like what's the point of living and trying to get through this. I'm not all that great so why bother? I looked back on this thread an feel so stupid about worrying about things like getting a suit because that won't help me at all. I don't need one for my jobs and I'm not qualified to do anything better right now anyway. Everything's just so shitty sometimes and it feels like that won't change. Anyway sorry for complaining.

Hang in there OP, it is a process. That you WANT something better is a huge step, as is asking for advice. You are not stuck in being self destructive or not caring or thinking you know everything. Lots of us are pulling for you!

How To Overcome Self-Doubt

This

Stop Negative Thinking

Overcoming Bad Inner Voices

How To Win The War In Your Head

How To Motivate Yourself To Change Your Behavior

10 Ways To Improve Your Attitude & Improve Your Life

7 Ways To Destroy Your (Or Your Friends) Negative Attitude

I hope some of these videos

help you out in some way OP =

Know Your Life Purpose In 7 Minutes

How To Know Your Life Purpose In 5 Minutes

Find Your Life Purpose In Under 4 Minutes

Good luck OP. Work on staying positive. You have lots of friends here who care about you.

20 Different Ways To Test Your Personality

OP, it breaks my heart that you think you don't deserve a suit or you think it is of no use. That's not true. A suit can be very useful in a man's life. You never know when you might need one, even if you don't use it right away.

When I was about 19 I bought myself a really beautiful, classy shirt that didn't go with anything I was wearing at the time. I still kept it because I felt it was beautiful, and it was "me", even if it wasn't "me" now (then, actually). I didn't know what I was doing then, but really I was sending a message to myself in the future. To believe in myself because one day it would make sense for me to be wearing that shirt. Just a few years later, when I was about 25, I started wearing that shirt and bought several others like it. My life was changing and my clothes were changing with it. I know I'll get MARY! for this, but it is what it is.

It takes a long time. Don't give up OP. You were very right in identifying what you would like to do: wear a suit, for work or other occasions. When you start feeling all those negative thoughts about life and yourself, that's not the right moment to make a decision OP. Be kind to yourself and get some rest if you can. When your mind is clearer is a better time to be thinking about the future.

Also, OP, could it be that you have dyslexia? Do numbers/letters/syllables get mixed up or jumbled in your head when you're talking or writing? Or reading even? If this is the case, then it is no wonder you have been having trouble learning in general. Reading will take a lot more time for you, and it will feel strenuous. This does not mean you should give up, but recognise it is more difficult for you, and you should allow more time.

If this is the case, there are probably some posters here who are based in the US who can help you with vocational learning or a trade or college that takes into account something like dyslexia.

OP, from your posts it sounds like the work you are doing now is not fulfilling in the least. If you can, get some training/education so as to acquire skills that are more valuable in the workplace. You'll get better jobs and leave the hellhole you seem to be in right now.

Also, being surrounded by people who are supportive, who don't bring you down, and don't bring you into any shady schemes is very important. That toxic shit needs to stay away.

OP, make a list. Of the things you want to see change (disappearing) from your life right now, and of what you want in their place. Date that list. Then work on your goals, don't lose focus. Get back to that list every time you have achieved one of the goals.

If the situations seem too complicated to get rid of or to get out of them, then break them down. What could you eliminate first, etc, etc?

Start saving money for your future if this is at all possible.

Free Mind Mastery Coaching Q & A Livestream (Today At 2 PM Eastern Time)

Personally I'm not really into self-help videos (lots of scams and simply a waste of time, I prefer to read) - good luck OP.

You haven't mentioned your dad OP even though you are still quite young.

Here's some advice from a dad's perspective

to help you out in some of life's situations =

Thanks again everyone, all the advice here means a lot to me. You guys have been really nice, thank you so much.

How are things now OP?

Give us an update.

Hi, R282, I'm okay, thanks. I told my brother to stop telling me about the things my mom was saying about me because it was getting to be pretty upsetting. She said she doesn't consider me to be her son anymore so that's that I guess but at least I'm not hearing all about it now.

Good to here from you again OP.

Well since you put a stop to your brother repeating what your mom is saying, I'm guessing that will lessen your anxiety some.

The second positive is you now know where you stand with your mom & don't have to do the revolving door policy so many of us had to endure with our relatives.

The time you would have to devote to her can now be put to better use. Try making Mother's Day a date night for you so you don't have to think about her while sitting home alone.

Sometimes when your relatives disown you it can only lead to greater things & at the very least some inner peace. In most cases...enjoy it while it lasts. :)

Thanks, R284. We havne't talked in almost two years because there were so many issues. It doesn't really matter that she said that because we never had a normal relationship but part of me feels a bit weird since now it's kind of official and I don't really have anyone in life. I mean, I didn't before but now it's just official, at least I can stop thinking about it for good now. Maybe part of me always thought things would eventually get better but it's like it's all settled now that it won't. I'm kind of sad but kind of okay with it too.

I tried searching for a thread about laundry but couldn't find one. Anyway, when you're washing black clothes can you put them in with jeans or should those be separate? Google just says dark so I'm not positive on what to do??

That's ok there's evidence that growing up with tumult and abuse can cause changes in the brain and DNA. That's awfully hard to get past.

Jeans (I'm assuming these are black or dark blue) are kind of rough. If your black stuff is made of finer material, I think you can still wash these items together. However, I would use a delicate wash. You can also use laundry bags to put stuff like silk shirts or whatever inside. Then you can wash the shirt with jeans, but on delicate.

You can also turn clothes inside out during washing to make your clothes last longer.

Thanks, R288!!

You mean because I couldn't find a thread about laundry, R287?

OP, it's so good to hear from you!! I would definitely wash jeans with anything dark, except what is delicate. Usually what is delicate gets washed together (not often, I'll admit) or handwashed if I need them quickly.

Best of luck OP. You have no idea what your thread has brought to lots of people.

R3, forgiveness rules but I am sick to death of the "They did the best they could....with what they had, knew, ect ect" THEN THEIR "BEST" WASN'T CLOSE TO GOOD ENOUGH. as a matter of fact(s) it sucked.

generations of people fucked over, fucked up and trying to make a livable even just OK life......so sorry you are going through this shit...

Also glad to hear from you, OP, have been sending good vibes your way. I wash all of my clothes inside out, helps keep them from pilling longer.

Try to create a life that you would want for someone you care about. Helps avoid some of the self destructive pitfalls I found.. Just keep going day by day.

Check out ACoA if you have not. Lots of folks working through having grown up with a family like yours, and figuring out how to create a better life.

I agree, R291, I really don't think that everybody (e.g., parents) does the best with what they know at the time. I think some people are lazy, mean, and/or don't give a shit.

Agree, R293, however that attitude allows people to move on and to not obsess about people from the past - why were they the way they were? etc, etc, so you do not give them the REST of your life as well.

R294: so true.....fuck 'em. the don't deserve to even breathe the same air as you. and

stop cheating on your future with your past : It's OVER.