Theatre Gossip #333- The "So Long, Farewell La Guardia High School" Edition

I bet when Ansel Elgort went there he would have made a delicious Rolf in lederhosen.

The LaGuardia School For The Performing Arts Presents...

Annie Get Your ---

The LaGuardia School For The Performing Arts Presents...

Guys And Womyn

The LaGuardia School For The Performing Arts Presents...

The Show Formerly Known as Gypsy

From the previous thread:

[quote]Wasn't there a video of Michael [Berresse] doing Broadway Bares at some point? Someone needs to repost it.

Yes, there was. Somehow, he didn't end up on the Broadway Bares dvd, but video of his performance exists. He danced to Salt n Pepa's I Am the Body Beautiful - and yes, he stripped totally nude

What’s this about? LaG alum but not a theater person.

According to the Daily News article, the new school administrator at LaGuardia has been cutting the arts programs and promoting higher test scores. The arts students are NOT happy about it. The article is a good read.

I think the subtext of the article about La Guardia is that the principal is trying to destroy the school. It may have been the reason that she was hired in the first place. There is a very strong, but small, group who want to get rid of merit based schools in NYC.

r6, Laguardia is doing The Sound of Music and the principal has cut all nazi symbols from the show.

Here's an article from October about changes in the admission process at LaGuardia. Fewer auditions and test questions because they "create bias." De Blasio's dirty hands seem all over all of this.

This is a real hot lunch jam!

R10, indeed they are. His dirty hands in need of some clippers (have you seen how long his nails are? *gag*)

I am beyond PISSED at DeBlasio and his partner in PC communism, Carranza.

And as a cunty aside, I’m wondering if Carranza is a trans man. I KNOW he’s married with kids.

I'm guessing the Katharine Hepburn play totally ignores the fact she was a big ole lesbo?

Max Von Essen will play Marvin and Nick Adams will play Whizzer in the North American tour of Falsettos.

Isn’t Whizzer supposed to be handsome? Adams is like the love child of Bozo the Clown and Martha Raye.

[quote] Isn’t Whizzer supposed to be handsome?

Oh come on. Any newly gay nebbishy Jew would fall over themselves to fuck Nick Adams.

[quote]Max Von Essen will play Marvin and Nick Adams will play Whizzer in the North American tour of Falsettos.

With Ben Platt as Jason!

I don't know. I'm all for ending the whole let's dump all of our resources into Bronx Science and Stuyvesant shit, but I like the idea of an arts school that is selective.

Although didn't Madonna's daughter go there?

R15, would they? They would for someone who looked like Michael Campayno but not for Nick Adams.

Clearly Campayno is hotter than Adams, r18, but I'd still suck Nick Adams' cock.

The LaGuardia School For The Performing Arts Presents...

The Vajayjay Monologues

I’m breaking down!!!

[quote]Here's an article from October about changes in the admission process at LaGuardia. Fewer auditions and test questions because they "create bias."

This is "everybody gets a trophy" mentality is killing us!

What does La Guardia HS think about "Fiorello?"

Last week some college announced it will no longer allow performances of The Vagina Monologues because "not all women have vaginas."

Berresse looks like Wayland Flowers in Cher show wig/costumes. So unsexy.

Network is not good and Cranston is schmacting all over the place in a generically self-indulgent turn.

Is Matthew Lombardo a top or bottom?

I looked it up and the banning of TVM has been going on for awhile. Mount Holyoke cancelled its annual production 3 or 4 years ago. Below is the production I was probably thinking about at r24.

I found The Waverly Gallery wanting.

Elaine May was spectacular....hard to believe she was acting, hilarious and chilling from moment to moment. But there's no play there beyond her performance. And those long set changes with that grey brick wall coming down 6 times and the generic Olde Greenwich Village videos.......oy.

What about Cromer’s big cock? Has Lucas Hedges seen it?

That's what I've been most fearing about Network -- Cranston will get a Tony for Most Actor, not Best Actor.

Cromer is a predator

The LaGuardia School For The Performing Arts Presents...

The Front Hole Intersectional Dialogues

If this joint's a rockin' ...

[quote]What does La Guardia HS think about "Fiorello?"

I’m triggered by the song Little Tin Box.

THR reviews "Network":

Variety:

[quote]Berresse looks like Wayland Flowers in Cher show wig/costumes. So unsexy.

He's playing Bob Mackie and Robert Altman, for the love of God. What did you expect, r25? .I've had my hands on his abs this year. The man still has a six pack .

[quote]Network is not good and Cranston is schmacting all over the place in a generically self-indulgent turn.

That makes me sad.

[quote]Is Matthew Lombardo a top or bottom?

His FB page is open. He's always crowing about how big his dick is, and, last time I checked his page, a lot of his followers have Daddy/puppy exchanges. He's a recovering alcoholic/meth addict, and doesn't seem to be Poz, so a top, I'd guess.

He's incredibly vain, and posted photos of himself when he had his eyes done. Speaking of Beresse, Lombardo was openly jealous of him when Beresse was still in HIGH. Lombardo posted endlessly about how envious he was of Berresse's body

Berresse Is an old man

Yeah, but back in the day he was super-hot.

Ratface

I never got Berresse’s appeal. Very average face on a good body. So many guys hotter than him out there.

Yeah, you're right. He isn't sexy at all.

Why is Scout in To Kill A Mockingbird played by a middle aged woman

R42, Roseanne needed a job.

Well, gee, R41, thanks for the pic. It confirmed he’s nothing special. I guess your standards are on the low end of the scale in terms of male attractiveness.

Thanks to the person in the prior thread who posted that clip of Valerie Harper in Looped. I'd never heard of the play before. I'm sure it's a slight work, but Valerie seemed PERFECT for the role in that clip (and a few others I found, like the one below). Did any of you see the play? It looks so entertaining and Valerie was clearly having the time of her life.

Looped was fun, if slight. Valerie was amazing....quite the revelatory performance.

IIRC it was about Tallulah being called back to Hollywood to loop in some dialogue for Die! Die, My Darling! as the film was being edited. That part was true and apparently Lombardo was given the actual audio session tapes from theatrical lawyer/theatre queen Mark Sendroff, in which you can hear her getting progressively drunk. And she meets up with a young handsome closeted studio exec who she befriends and somehow helps (that part I can't quite remember).

Michael Berresse is very handsome in person, in a way that comes across onstage but perhaps less so on film.

I had no idea that Laura Osnes is playing Shirley MacLaine in Fosse/Verdon.

It’s also weird that the only actor from Damn Yankees who is being portrayed enough for billingis Robert Schafer, who was Older Joe, a character who doesn’t interact with Verdon’s Lola at all.

[quote]Well, gee, [R41], thanks for the pic. It confirmed he’s nothing special. I guess your standards are on the low end of the scale in terms of male attractiveness.

You're welcome r44. Thanks for your response, which shows us what a shallow cunt you are. I agree with r47. Beresse may not come across well in photos or film, but in person, he makes you feel like the most important person in his world. He's charming, handsome and lovely - qualities that you obviously lack.

[quote]Thanks to the person in the prior thread who posted that clip of Valerie Harper in Looped. I'd never heard of the play before. I'm sure it's a slight work, but Valerie seemed PERFECT for the role in that clip (and a few others I found, like the one below). Did any of you see the play? It looks so entertaining and Valerie was clearly having the time of her life.

The play was atrocious, but Harper was amazing. She, as Bankhead, was obviously fucking with the guy. She kept blowing takes and screwing with him. There was one incredible moment when she performed a bit from Streetcar Named Desire. For just that minute, Tallulah was there. It was uncanny.

Anytime I see anything about Laura Osnes, I always think about how her career took off like a rocket after winning that reality show but the guy who shared the win with her, I can't even remember his name to google it. I do remember that he was a cute guy; too bad things didn't seem to work out as well for him.

I've auditioned for Michael Berresse, and he was very nice, gracious and gave me some nice compliments. He is very good-looking,, and he had a good sense of humor when I had the opportunity to chat with him for a little while afterwards.

She's very good, but sometimes I see her name and think of Laura Noses.

She likes you as well

I wonder if the Beresse posters were Christian Borle and/or Jim Borsilman posters. I suspect they've also been on the Priscilla Barnes thread posting about "hot" Richard Kline and other actors of similar sex appeal in "Three's Company".

A pan for every lid. It's darling, really.

PalJoey's identity was revealed on a DL theatre thread years ago. Nobody cared except one poster, who piped up that the man linked was much too young to be PalJoey (Gee, I wonder who that poster was...).

Nick Adams is actually the best casting they've got

Are any Jews in the Falsetto tour?

[quote]Anytime I see anything about Laura Osnes, I always think about how her career took off like a rocket after winning that reality show but the guy who shared the win with her, I can't even remember his name to google it. I do remember that he was a cute guy; too bad things didn't seem to work out as well for him.

What are you talking about? Max Crumm was in Seth Rudetsky's DISASTER. Has there ever been a better Broadway musical?

Berresse is one of those bizarre DL kaween obsessions that amounts to nothing in the real world. He’s a utility Bway dancer/actor, nothing more. Every performance he’s given has been fey and meh.

Lol, I was wondering the same thing R55, if the creepy Borle obsessives had moved on.

Oh r60 to be as handsome as you. Eat your heart out Mr Beresse.

The NYT and other reviews of "Network" praise Bryan Cranston to the heavens, but seem to agree that the rest of the show is nothing special, the middle-age marital crisis is a bore, and the actress playing the Dunaway role is miscast and tepid in the part.

R44, I mean this is the nicest way: Up yours for making fun of someone for finding Michael Berresse attractive. I can only imagine what YOU consider attractive, but I'd really rather not.

[quote]Berresse is one of those bizarre DL kaween obsessions that amounts to nothing in the real world. He’s a utility Bway dancer/actor, nothing more. Every performance he’s given has been fey and meh.

I thought he was great as Billy Flynn in CHICAGO, and as Bill in KISS ME, KATE. Also fun in a small part in THE LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA.

[quote]The actress playing the Dunaway role is miscast and tepid in the part.

So, what is the reason behind this casting? It's not like she's really a name or anything.

I never miss a Faye Dunaway shitfest.

R64 -- Tatiana Maslany, an Emmy-winning actress, isn't enough of a name for you? I'm not saying she's well-cast or anything, but I can understand the logic behind having two acclaimed TV stars headline a limited run play.

van Hove seems to have been distinctly against casting a blonde bitch goddess type as Diana Christensen, which was a big mistake. The clue is in her name. Michelle Dockery looked mousy and Tatiana Maslany looks like a young boy. Diana should be a sexy piece of work who obviously used her attributes to get ahead. And to give head to the right executives.

I'm bringing this over from the Annie thread because it's too funny to be missed. Audiences did NOT like The Wiz directed by Lavarious Slaughter.

I simply cannot bear when someone fawns over a famous person, from ordinary Michael Berrese to Bill Clinton, by saying he’s so magical because he looks at you like you’re the only person in the room. Blech. No, it’s actually because you’re a bottomless pit of need and even someone’s momentary attention makes you orgasm as if you’d had a spiritual experience.

I’ve met hundreds of celebrities and many of them do actually have a very tangible energy and luminous appearance, bitch at R69. There is a reason some people become famous and also a reason for the term “stage presence”. You must be very lonely.

Not lonely, R70, and, in fact, basking right now in the-rest-of-the-world-doesn’t-exist-except-you-and-me singular stare of Hugh Jackman.

R69 - I do have to politely disagree with you - there are performers who really can do that & some have the ability to turn it on or off. There is the well know anecdote of Marlyn Monroe going from invisible to stopping traffic while walking down the block.

From personal experience I’m very good friends with a successful broadway performer - at home playing video games he’s just my buddy - when he performs, or just turns on the charm - he’s riveting. It’s sometimes hard for me to reconcile the two personas reside in the same person

Who's the buddy of R72, I wonder? Nathan Lane? Raul Esparza? Michael Urie? Charlie Williams? (No, I don't expect you to tell, R72, but it's fun to guess.)

I saw The Sound of Music at LaGuardia High last night. If anyone cares, they did use the actual Nazi symbol. The kids were marvelous as usual.

Pre Broadway.com, Sara Bareilles will return to Waitress Jan 7 for a month's run with DL fave Gavin Creel.

Is Sara wrapping the show up or just serving as a placeholder?

I saw THE RESISTIBLE RISE OF ARTURO UI at CSC - very competent cast in a somewhat confusing play, but, when Raul Esparza is onstage, he is so charismatic and commanding. Worth it for his performance.

I agree with r69. Just because someone has "star quality" doesn't mean they are better than someone who doesn't command the room's attention. And as we saw with the last President, people will fall all over someone who has zero social skills.

R78 - R72 here. I don’t think we feel someone with “Star Quality” is a better person, and they may or may not be the most talented performer, but it is human nature to be intrigued by them. That’s why we have have always had stars / heros / kings - it’s how we are wired. And the star / hero / king is usually not as great as their reputation - they are human two.

I don’t mean to be annoying or coy R73 - but I know you understand why I’m not naming names.

Too not two. Ugh.

Someone up the thread mentioned Richard Kline. He went on tv years ago saying that he had done a nude scene at I think was Lincoln Center Theatre. Did anyone see it? He was kind of cute when he was younger, always seeming to sport an open shirt with a nice hairy chest. Bet he had a nice hairy body.

[quote]I simply cannot bear when someone fawns over a famous person, from ordinary Michael Berrese to Bill Clinton, by saying he’s so magical because he looks at you like you’re the only person in the room. Blech. No, it’s actually because you’re a bottomless pit of need and even someone’s momentary attention makes you orgasm as if you’d had a spiritual experience.

You sound lovely. You really find it unbearable that an anonymous stranger appreciates a public person that you personally don't care for? Why should that impact you so strongly?

On another topic, anybody seen The Ferryman? I hear it's very good, but a tough ticket to get.

[quote]And as we saw with the last President, people will fall all over someone who has zero social skills.

Well, that was random.

And stupid.

What was "random" about it, r83?

No r83, it wasn't random. People fell all over Obama and he was terrible at speech making. Ask him a question and he stuttered all over the place.

R58

Yes.

Eden is Jewish.

R85 social skills are being able to communicate and interact (verbally and non-verbally) with others, being a good listener, being a good negotiator, etc. Obama excelled at those.

[quote]Tatiana Maslany, an Emmy-winning actress, isn't enough of a name for you? I'm not saying she's well-cast or anything, but I can understand the logic behind having two acclaimed TV stars headline a limited run play.

I see what you mean, but I don't think she's famous enough to make it worth having her in the show if she's so miscast, and also, they really didn't need any other star names in the show to help sell tickets since they also have Cranston and Tony Goldwyn. They could have given the Maslany role to a wonderful stage actress who would have been more well suited to it.

[quote]Social skills are being able to communicate and interact (verbally and non-verbally) with others, being a good listener, being a good negotiator, etc. Obama excelled at those.

Of course that's true, and anybody who says otherwise is an idiot or worse.

r87 and r88 prove r69's point. The cult of personality is stronger than anything else.

R89 WTF are you talking about? R85 thought that social skills means being able to give good speeches. That's wrong. I merely listed what psychologists consider having good social skills. Many would consider that Obama has good social skills, unlike our current president.

R89, you prove your own point that you're a cretin. To cite Barack Obama, of all people, as someone lacking in social skills is beyond idiotic.

Why has Laura Benanti's impression of Melania Trump not taken off?

Obama also gave wonderful speeches.

He never shook his professorial habit of pausing so you could take notes -- but that made sense to me. He used to teach law.

Onama was a superb speechmaker.

And Obama wrote many of his own speeches.

[quote]Onama was a superb speechmaker.

No he wasn't. He had a speech impediment (sibilant S), he suffered from upspeak and had no breath support to sustain a sentence to the end which made his voice weak.

So, did we ever find out if anyone had a copy of Berresse's Broadway Bares? YouTube it, please?

Yeah, r96, he was, and he's acknowledged as such by pretty much everyone. Well, except your tiny little Trump-loving mind.

R96 Being an excellent speaker is about more than delivery.

Nothing more I love than some asshat sneering at what someone else considers sexy or attractive or hot.

It's subjective, you assholes. We all have different tastes.

I think conventionally "pretty" or "handsome" people are a bit...meh. (And, many pretty/handsome people tend to be a bit meh in the personality department, IMO...a lot of them coast through life on their looks.) But, that's MY opinion.

So, while you're swooning over Matt Bomer, who seems like a lovely fellow, I'll be over here chatting up the hot dude with the big nose and jughead ears who's probably hung like a moose.

So ugly people are hung and pretty people are not? You don't make any sense.

r100 = Rocco Steele (or the president of his fan club)

What's the story on this new musical based on A Letter to Three Wives?

In this day and age, I can't believe a new musical could come from such sophisticated source material.

Still waiting on a musical version of The Enchanted Cottage.

When is THE PROM closing?

So is being an excellent obstetrician, r99.

Hoping that sophisticated material will breed a sophisticated musical in this day and age is like hoping Dunsinane Wood will come to Duffy Square.

R96, you are a fucking ASSHOLE.

Well Applause was not sophisticated but it gave off the illusion it was in its original production. The glamour of it helped a lot.

I assume ALTTW will keep its time period unlike Applause.

Does anyone still write letters?

I know nothing about the show's book and if it even works, but I've really been enjoying the score of The Rink recently. Certainly, an Encores production wouldn't hurt, right?

I wouldn’t mind an Encores concert of The Rink with Beth Leavel and Sutton. Or Katrina Lenk and Jessie Mueller.

Anyone but Donna Murphy, please. She’s not as funny or entertaining as everyone pretends she is.

[quote]Anyone but Donna Murphy, please. She’s not as funny or entertaining as everyone pretends she is.

I loved her on Murder One, as Francesca Cross.

[quote] Or Katrina Lenk and Jessie Mueller.

I vote for that pairing. Or Katrina Lenk, at least. It would be nice to get an Angel who's actually 30-ish. Isn't Mueller in her late 30s?

Are the children in to kill a mockingbird suooosed to be adults in this new version? I don’t get it.

What about Reeve Carney? Is he hung??

How was Thelma Ritter not given billing in "A Letter to Three Wives"? She steals scenes when she is on screen, par for her course.

It is amazing she receives no credit.

Shampoo The Musical!

Now there's a movie that needs to be musicalized.

R104, me too.

Tell me about it, r121......

[quote]r45 I'd never heard of the play LOOPED before.

well, it's no GIRL IN THE THUNDERBIRD.

[quote]r63 The NYT and other reviews of "Network" seem to agree that the actress playing the Dunaway role is miscast and tepid in the part.

They went from Lady Mary in London to Orphan Black here.

But thank the goddess it wasn't Hillary Duff, or she'd be dead.

[quote]r65 I never miss a Faye Dunaway shitfest.

[italic]WHY WERE WE DENIED THIS ? ?[/italic]

I read somewhere there's a bootleg of her "singing" in rehearsal. That can't be true, can it?

The thing about Faye and Sunset Blvd, is that Andrew Lloyd Webber is the one who hired her, and he did so after hearing her sing. He should have known whatever little bit of voice she had wasn't going to miraculously turn into what was needed in four weeks. Glenn's voice isn't any great shakes, but she was definitely a trained singer and had done musicals before. There wasn't a learning curve for her.

I lurve fuggos because I cannot get anything better!

If anyone would know about fuggos, it would be you, r128. You see one whenever you look in the mirror.

R101 and R128 should date. A perfect match for each other.

Dumb, vapid AND shallow!

A triple crown winning pair.

How wonderful it will be to sing Andrew’s glorious score properly for the film adaptation next year. Thank me later (the Academy will)... and sorry Glenn.

Holiday Agency purging begins....UTA fires two - Gen Lieber and Chris Highland. Stewart fires two too. Who’s next?

[quote]r66 Michelle Dockery looked mousy and Tatiana Maslany looks like a young boy. Diana should be a sexy piece of work who obviously used her attributes to get ahead.

Oh, I agree!

Is The Prom selling tickets? It's one of the worst shows I've ever seen anywhere.

[quote]Close said the Sunset Boulevard project is still an unpaved road, but she hopes it gets the green light that would keep it moving toward reality.

In other words, what do they do about Patti LuPone?

r134 How bad is it? Is it a lavarious slaughter?

R136, why in the world do you care what one anonymous poster thinks? The Prom got lots of positive reviews. If you’re in NYC, there are lots of discount tickets available. Go see it and make up your own mind. I wish the score had been better, but the show is funny and sweet. The performers are all excellent.

r137 This only bothers you because you liked it and r134 didn't. If I had asked you what you thought of it, you wouldn't have thought the question unthinkable. That much is clear, since you offered your opinion of it without even being asked.

[quote]The Prom got lots of positive reviews.

In this day and age, the raves for plays/musicals/films/TV shows concerning issues about gay/lesbian/trans/minorities/women seem suspect. It's like critics are afraid of backlash if they give it a bad review.

Brantley has become ridiculously benevolent in his reviews in the last couple of years.

Even when a show is clearly inept like Torch Song, The Cher Show and Network, for the 3 most recent examples, he'll rave on about the stars. It's as if he knows he's toast and is trying to rack up sympathy votes before he goes.

THE PROM is going to have someone in the cast leave early due to a "prior commitment" and bring in a big name to boost sales.

The Prom won’t make it thru the winter cuz it’s not very good. It was Green who slammed Cher, not Brantley.

Is "The Prom" the kind of show that will do well in regional and community theater?

I felt bad yesterday because I said to someone who I know loves theater (and who I don't get to see very often) "Let's go see a show" and she instantly came back with "Let's go see 'King Kong'!" I instantly froze, trying to think of some excuse, then just blurted out "Sorry, I have no desire to see that. I just think it looks so cheesy." Now because she is such a nice and kind person, I immediately felt like the worst person in the world. (The other person who was with us also clapped back with "No, it's not! I hear it's really excellent!", which of course made me feel worse.) So I backtracked and said, "Okay, sure. Let's go."

Hopefully, it won't be as bad as I'm anticipating.

Torch Song is closing. I knew it shouldn’t have attempted a Bway transfer. Cutting all that material made it stilted Off Bway. Michael Urie was trying too hard to be Harvey. It just didnt have anywhere near the same impact as the original.

What do you mean "what do they do about Patti LuPone"? Um, nothing, why?

The Prom is good but struggling to find an audience. I thought it would appeal to the Dear Evan Hansen/Be More Chill fanbase and get some social media hype behind it, but that hasn't happened. They don't seem to be doing much promo--maybe they'll perform on GMA or The View sometime soon to coincide with the cast album release next week.

Most people I know who saw it loved it, but were comped or bought tix through TDF.

The Broadway vets in it are excellent and there are a lot of kids in the ensemble making their debuts. I'm a sap so I can't help but root for it.

[quote]Hopefully, it won't be as bad as I'm anticipating.

As the song from "Molly" goes, R144, "Go in the Best of Health." A friend of mine saw he could get a ticket for $54 this week, so he decided to see it. He said that the puppetry and sound effects actually make for a pretty entertaining evening, and that it tells the story in about an hour's less time than the bloated Peter Jackson movie remake. If you're not expecting a great musical, and obviously you're not, you might have a fairly enjoyable evening. And it sounds like your friends definitely will.

Casey Nicholaw would do well to take a few years off. He really didn't need to do The Prom so soon after that awful Mean Girls. He's certainly making enough money from that, Aladdin and Mormon to never work again.

I miss the old days of directors like Hal Prince who could produce musicals that were not only entertaining but actually had something of interest to say.

Agreed R149. He's kind of oversaturating the boards right now. The Prom is better than Mean Girls; I think it would've done better in a season that wasn't so crammed with existing/upcoming shows geared towards teens and college kids. It's hard to place because it's contemporary but also an old-fashioned musical comedy in many ways.

Casey Nicholaw AND Jerry Mitchell need to both go the fuck away for a few years.

It's hard to believe the The Prom could be better than Mean Girls because The Prom is so so mediocre and badly written. The fact that there are so many discounts available right after it opened is a sure sign it's not going to last much longer.

[quote]What do you mean "what do they do about Patti LuPone"? Um, nothing, why?

Because when it starts up, all the way until her death, Patti will bitch about how it should have been her in the movie and how awful the movie is without her.

Norma Desmond is 50, not 70+. Patti, Glenn (who couldn't sing it in a way that was worth listening to it decades ago), and Meryl are all out.

You think Andy is afraid of Patti whining?

For god’s sake, he was married to Sarah Brightman. I think he’s immune by now.

[quote] For god’s sake, he was married to Sarah Brightman. I think he’s immune by now.

Oh, please. Sarah went quietly. She even had the dignity to perform at ALW's televised birthday celebration where she hugged him in the finale. If Patti hugged ALW, there'd be a knife sticking out his back.

I actually liked Glenn a good deal in Sunset and even saw her in the recent revival. To me, her voice, in some respects, had gotten better. She didn't look too different than she did in the 90's if you ask me. Maybe a little extra waddle around the neck. People in their 70's these days tend to look like people in their 50's used to back in the day, so I don't see why it'd be a huge problem if they're keeping it a period piece.

I still doubt if this would make any money or not. I don't even think it matters who plays Norma. Meryl's name could probably greenlight it a la Into The Woods, but that's about the only actress over 50 who could manage that. It's like the Streisand Gypsy. Even if the script is great, the director is brilliant, and the leading lady gives the performance of her life, it's not an incredibly marketable story for a big screen movie. For Netflix or HBO...that might be a different story.

[quote]...if they're keeping it a period piece.

IF they’re keeping it a period piece? SB seems like one show that absolutely must be a period piece.

[QUOTE] She even had the dignity to perform at ALW's televised birthday celebration where she hugged him in the finale

And then went on Graham Norton and said he's hung

Silent movies ended in about 95 years ago. Yeah, it has to be a period piece.

Not to mention that nobody wears vicuna anymore.

He might be hung, but at some point one has to look up. :(

The new updated Sunset Blvd. is about a beloved Hollywood star in the age before 3D IMAX. She plots a comeback in a new campy superhero movie.

R163 LOL!

Remember when film actors even in the '90s scoffed at doing superhero movies?

I think you could update Sunset Boulevard a bit if you wanted to since Hollywood really hasn't changed much at all, but Norma would have to have been the star of something that doesn't really exist anymore. Like soap operas...or thoughtful, adult-minded dramas.

r165 Any updating of this sort would rob Sunset of much of its pathos because there has never been a bigger leap (esp. technologically) in the evolution of film than the leap from silent to sound. It changed the very philosophy of film acting. Even Charlie Chaplin had the hardest time making the transition.

Yeah I do think Sunset Boulevard needs to remain in the 50's for it to have any significance or at least not go past the 70s. Although, I guess that'd be one way to fix the age thing - bump up Norma's age to 70 and have it take place in the 70's where not only did they no longer make silent films, but the studio system itself was totally dead and the hot shot kids were making gritty, more realistic films. That might even be a bigger kick in the face for Norma.

Still, I think another poster mentioned something really important - people in their 50's in the 50's looked like people in their 70's do these days. I actually don't think Glenn's age would be much of an issue. Even if they got someone like Streep, it still wouldn't be much of an issue. They both look like women in their 50's would have looked in the 50's, especially with the right lighting and everything.

Michelle Pfeiffer would make an interesting Norma, but I don't think she has the voice or box office clout to make it happen.

This may be total lunacy, but I think Madonna is sorta born for this role. She IS Norma Desmond. I don't think she knows that she is, but she is. She's a wonderful actress when she isn't speaking much like Norma and you could believe she used to be a silent film star. Once again, I doubt she could really do the score much justice, but I'm sure we've all heard worse. Close was simply fine in the vocals department.

Talk of making Norma 70 is going to make Barbra come creaking out of the woodwork, by which I mean her casket.

Babs had her shot. She didn't like the script, because she didn't think Norma was likable. She wanted to soften her. And this bitch wanted to play Mama Rose? Rose might not have killed anyone (at least in the show. In real life...), but she's always been a far more vicious character to me. Norma at least has some serious mental illness that she gets carried away in.

[quote]Rose might not have killed anyone (at least in the show. In real life...)

I heard that the hotel manager she attempts to frame for rape in the show, she actually pushed out of the window?

ALW was asked by an interviewer a few years ago if he’d allow Madonna to do a SUNSET film and he said she’d never agree to do it (implying it would make her seem old). She just might be desperate enough now though.

Why do all the men in King Kong wear vests? Did the costumer buy them in bulk?

[quote]r154 Norma Desmond is 50, not 70+. Patti, Glenn (who couldn't sing it in a way that was worth listening to it decades ago), and Meryl are all out.

I can [italic]possibly[/italic] be aged up, with notice!

Bernadette Peters 4 Movie Norma

[quote]r168 Michelle Pfeiffer would make an interesting Norma, but I don't think she has the voice or box office clout to make it happen.

I don't think Pfeiffer could ever be less than physically appealing, and there has to be something grotesque and repellant about Joe becoming her lover ... like it's somewhat against his will ... that he's really, really compromising himself.

With someone as beautiful as Pfeiffer, you might think, "Well, why DON'T they just get married, and live happuily ever after?"

I'd love to see Catherine Zeta Jones do it -- she's the right age, is borderline camp in a self-satiric way, and also has a vampy appeal that we've already seen onscreen. Plus, she can sing. And act..

oh shit I'm finally getting around to the Greatest Showman and these lyrics. 'I think now what the world could be, a vision of the one I see' what the fukkk?

How did I miss this?

Andrew Lloyd Webber wrote a musical about Stephen Ward, the man who was in the middle of the Profumo affair.

Did anyone see it? Was it any good? I'm thinking it wasn't because there was no attempt to bring it to Broadway. I haven't enjoyed ALW's later efforts. I saw both "Whistle Down The Wind" and "The Beautiful Game" in London and was less than impressed.

Thanks, R148. I think if I keep my expectations low (and I will), I'm sure I will enjoy the evening.

There's one good solo and one good ensemble number in STEPHEN WARD. The rest, meh.

Madonna has neither size, scope nor register to play Norma Desmond. Norma is a queen trying to reclaim her throne. Madge is plebian, through and through.

"Stephen Ward" is such an uninspired title, especially for a musical.

ALW never really put much thought into naming his bio-musicals: Evita, Joseph, Jesus Christ Superstar

Well, at least with 'Evita,' it's an unusual/uncommon name. Plus, it's her nickname (diminutive of Eva) and what the poor affectionately called her.

I don't mind when movies/plays are named after the person IF they have an intriguing name or surname -- like 'Silkwood' or 'Fiorello," for example.

But 'Stephen' and "Ward" are such ordinary names. Put them together and it sounds even duller! Rather, it was John 'Profumo' who had the intriguing/uncommon surname.

"The Perfume of Profumo" would have been a better title

JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR was a BRILLIANT title!

The term "superstar" was very new way back then (did Andy Warhol coin it?) and the album was one of the first times it was employed to great effect. It's been so overused and misused in the decades that have followed, young people have no idea.....

Madonna transformed vocally for Evita working with the most respected coach in NYC at the time and she delivered. She could definitely handle Norma as it is not nearly as challenging.

Madonna's vocals did not deliver in Evita.

She completely fucked it up

JOSEPH is not the title of ALW's musical. It's JOSEPH AND THE AMAZING TECHNICOLOR DREAMCOAT, and I think that's a perfect, zany title for the show. A boring title would be calling it JOSEPH AND HIS COAT OF MANY COLORS, which is what the garment is called in Genesis.

I think Madonna did well within the context of film. The role is pretty much belting, which on film would've been an assault on the ears. A direct translation of the stage role would not work on film. People would be like "Why is she shouting all the time?" And it would come off even more incongruous in a realistic setting.

I'm not sure Madonna is self aware enough to understand Norma. I think both Evita and Dangerous Game showed you could get a serviceable performance out of Madonna (and really, that's all Gaga is handing out in ASIB. She was fine, serviceable, and I have no complaints about what she did, but award-worthy it is not). But you really have to understand the delusion of Norma in order to play her, and that would be way too much for Madonna to work out psychologically. She would need to take a look at herself in a way that I don't think she'll ever want to or choose to.

[quote]Hopefully, it won't be as bad as I'm anticipating.

No, it will be worse than you're anticipating (except for the puppet or marionette or whatever the right word for it is).

[quote]He said that the puppetry and sound effects actually make for a pretty entertaining evening, and that it tells the story in about an hour's less time than the bloated Peter Jackson movie remake.

Actually, it tells a very different version of the story (and a really dumb version) than the Peter Jackson movie and the other two movies.

I saw Stephen Ward. It was a big giant piece of shite from start to finish. Besides, what rhymes with osteopath?!

[quote]I saw Stephen Ward. It was a big giant piece of shite from start to finish. Besides, what rhymes with osteopath?!

Worse than Beautiful Game?

Worse than Michael Berresse and his admirer

MUCH worse than Beautiful Game.

Madonna’s acting was decent, even good at times, in “Evita.” But her singing was awful. She just didn’t have the voice for it.

So much of the movie of EVITA is awful. I'm no Madge fan but there is so much blame to be assigned elsewhere: the director, the screenwriters, the production and costume designers, cinematographers.

It should have been visually sumptuous (as I think all movie musicals should be). It looked like something from a Soviet Bloc nation on a slim budget. Almost nothing about it felt authentic to the time and place. It's not a great ALW score, but it has energy, sex, and vitality and almost all of that was missing from this version.

Worst of all, it was DULL. And endless.

[quote]r198 Worst of all, it was DULL. And endless.

I thought Madge was good in the early scenes ... she had a certain verve that was appropriate. And she got to dance a little.

But after "I'd Be Surprisingly Good for You", which is my favorite song from the score, and beautifully orchestrated in the movie, it all kind of becomes too serious, and deflates rapidly.

By the time they get to adding new songs, it's like, "Can she just DIE already??"

They should remake Evita with Gaga just to antagonize Madge.

Not sure about the conflation of DEH and Be More Chill, r147, which has yet to prove that it can actually succeed on Bway ... also I think the difference is that DEH and BMC both focus on the intimate emotional experiences of teenagers (even though DEH also gives time to the parents) and The Prom does not appeal to a teenage audience in the same way even if teenagers are a split focus of its story ...

I'd like to see Sunset Blvd updated to the 1990s, with Tracey Ullman as Linda Grainger as Norma.

Re NETWORK, is Diana still conniving in the stage version even if she isn't obviously sexy? I mean, the character is no role model. She's fucking a married fan, for fuck's sake? I'm afraid they may have softened her up too much in this current #metoo movement where women apparently can't be complicit.

[quote]So much of the movie of EVITA is awful. I'm no Madge fan but there is so much blame to be assigned elsewhere: the director, the screenwriters, the production and costume designers, cinematographers.

What's wrong with the costumes? I thought they were great! IMO, the film was snubbed for Best Costume Design. Also, the score never sounded better with that full orchestra.

That said, I think the mistake was filming it like a music video. I get that Alan Parker was trying to go for a PINK FLOYD: THE WALL concept but it didn't work. I saw the film with some people who weren't familiar with the story and were lost. It didn't help that Antonio's accent was so thick he sounded unintelligible a lot of the time, which defeats his purpose as narrator.

I thought Madonna was fine in Evita, her best work. Her singing was softer, less blazing because she’s just not LuPone. I really enjoyed Madonna in it because I expected it to be total shit and it wasn’t.

Frankly, without Hal Prince's staging concept the show is pretty bad. The movie was a bore, no fault of Madonna's who did far better than expected.

[quote]Frankly, without Hal Prince's staging concept the show is pretty bad.

Yeah, well, you have a big behind.

'I liked Madonna,' 'I didn't like Madonna' is not GOSSIP. 'I fucked Madonna' is gossip

Can we hear more about the blood in Daniel Fish’s Oklahoma, please? Was it like a Ruby Ridge type thing?

R208 WTF are you on about?

[quote]She's fucking a married fan

I am not one of her FAAAAAAANS!

Evita would have been better if Madge hadn't gotten knocked up. The Buenos Aires number suffers from it because they didn't want Madge to do any heavy dancing. Buenos Aires has a dance break written into the number and it should be down and dirty.

R211 LOL! I meant "man" of course

And if you want to talk behinds, R207, they could show How the West Was Won on Brooks Ashmanskas'.

The Prom is so so terrible. Skip it.

[quote]r215 The Prom is so so terrible. Skip it.

Is the XXX knockoff going to be called THE PRON?

I second the need for Hal Prince. You also need an Evita like Lupone.

The revival with Ricky Martin was so horrible.

The revival was bad because Ricky smiled at the audience the whole time. It was if Che was a contestant on Star Search

Not to mention that in the Evita revival they decided to go with an Argentinian actress rather than a talented musical theater actress.

And Ricky randomly changed the lyrics.

"The Jungle" is the best thing at St. Ann's in a long time.

It doesn't work when they try to soften up Evita, like they did in the film and recent revival, because then Che comes off as whiny complaining about an Eva we never see. I hate the trend of trying to present Eva Peron as a feminist icon or whatever. She wasn't. Sure, she helped get women the vote and started the first women's party in the country, but everything she did was to keep Peron in power, and by taking care of him, she was taking care of herself.

I've studied the woman for over 20 years, and she was a narcissist with delusions of grandeur. She loved dolling up in expensive furs and jewels and showing them off. Originally, she wanted to be a movie star so that she could be adored by the masses (to make up for her poor, illegitimate upbringing, I guess), but when that didn't quite pan out as she'd hoped (she was considered a terrible actress and mainly did radio soaps), she decided to market herself as a savior of the people and to be worshipped as a living saint. She actually came to believe her own press toward the end.

Incidentally, in 1996, the Argentineans decided to make their own film version of her story (starring Esther Goris) to counter the ALW musical, which they saw as blasphemous. But their version of Evita was very much like LuPone's interpretation: loud, vindictive, pushy. Though the film is mainly about Eva's failed 1951 vice presidential run, they do have flashbacks and often mention her past. For instance, Goris' Eva admits she used Magaldi to get the hell out of Junin, and her sleeping to the top is suggested. Also, Eva is shown advocating suppression/imprisonment/torture of dissenters and the opposition. But the difference between the musical and the Argentinean film is that the former condemns her actions, while the latter sees them as a means to an end, which, according to the Argentine film, was to help the poorest of the poor. So it was forgivable.

Four of us saw The Prom on the recommendation of a friend and we all loved it.

I ❤️THE PROM. Our best theater pros doing what they do better than anyone. Smart, and very entertaining...

Leslie Stifelman, the “Chicago “ MD blamed by his friends for Jeff Loeffelholz’ apparent suicide, has been replaced. Bobbie has not. Per Page Six this morning.

Preposterous.

R275, how could you replace Bobbie? Go back from scratch and restage an entirely different production of Chicago?

Re King Kong: Two friends, Midwestern housewives, loved it. Another, a 4th year Juilliard student, loved it (although he was stoned). I'd see it for $54.

R227 did the Juilliard student only love the puppet or the whole thing?

Just paraphrasing the article, r226

Davey is quite adorable.

Oops, wrong thread, sorry.

Fat jokes about Brooks Ashmanskas are so tired. Besides, he's the first to make them about himself.

If only Hal Prince had directed the movie of Evita, it might have equaled his cinematic masterpiece of A Little Night Music.

[quote] Fat jokes about Brooks Ashmanskas are so tired. Besides, he's the first to make them about himself.

Clearly if he makes them about himself, then they're not tired.

[quote]Was it like a Ruby Ridge type thing?

Yes. In the new ending, Jud Fry goes full postal at the wedding reception and shoots Gertie Cummings, Cord Elam, and Ado Annie’s father. Finally Aunt Eller comes out and takes Jud down with a clean shot to the head.

You guys remember Ruby Ridge?

Re: musical director Leslie Stifelman fired from CHICAGO:

[quote]sources familiar with the situation tell Page Six that cast members were irked when Stifelman returned to work immediately after the allegations were made against her. And when she took a leave from the show to work on another project, a vote was taken, asking the cast and crew if Stifelman should return to the production, a source said. We’re told the voters said she should not.

[quote]Now we’re told that Stifelman has been replaced by Rob Bowman, who had long been the conductor and musical director for Elaine Stritch.

THE RETURN OF STRITCHY!

STEPHEN WARD is so bizarre. I have no idea why ALW chose that of all subjects to musicalize... I’d have expected him to do a MAD MEN/Bacharach type score but it isn’t that way at all. Plus, the only semi-rock song is the act one finale (1963) which is more recitative than showstopper. I do love the pastische club numbers (Hula Hooper, Black Hearted Woman), but the score is very laborious and passionless. Also, giving the wife that huge 11 o’clock number was not the right decision, even if ALW surely insisted it stay in... I hope it goes the way of THE WOMAN IN WHITE and he leaves it alone and moves on to new things. I can’t see anyone ever doing it in the US, way too British.

I should add that the content makes it way too risqué for amateur groups or community theaters to tackle - the big S&M orgy scene and the copious use of “fuck”, etc.. I’m not sure who the intended audience was/is.

R222, clearly you did not see the original West End production of Evita. The anger level of the two leads was much lower than in the USA. Evita and Che never met. He was still tooling around on a motorbike when she died. There is no reason to play it as if they are angry ex-lovers. Che and Evita had humorous contempt, but also admiration for each other.

Of course, while the show got good reviews, there were several editorials complaining the Evita was too sympathetic.

It is also interesting that staging that everyone was talking about was "A New Argentina", not "Don't Cry for me Argentina".

[quote]That said, I think the mistake was filming it like a music video

In what way was EVITA filmed like a music video? I think it was very well done in terms of the locations, the camera work, the editing, etc. Did you think the camera work and editing were too kyperkinetic? I really disagree with that, and I'd suggest you look at CHICAGO or DREAMGIRLS if you want to see movie musicals with too many cuts.

[quote]Re NETWORK, is Diana still conniving in the stage version even if she isn't obviously sexy? I mean, the character is no role model. She's fucking a married fan, for fuck's sake? I'm afraid they may have softened her up too much in this current #metoo movement where women apparently can't be complicit.

She is softened only insofar as the performance is so bland, I don't think there have been any changes in the character.

[quote]Four of us saw The Prom on the recommendation of a friend and we all loved it.

Thanks. I'm really suspicious of anybody who thinks this show is "terrible."

[quote]Leslie Stifelman, the “Chicago “ MD blamed by his friends for Jeff Loeffelholz’ apparent suicide, has been replaced. Bobbie has not. Per Page Six this morning.

Wrong pronoun, Leslie is a woman.

[quote]Clearly you did not see the original West End production of Evita. The anger level of the two leads was much lower than in the USA. Evita and Che never met. He was still tooling around on a motorbike when she died.

The way you wrote that is confusing. Evita and Che never met in real life, but the original West End production was the same as the Broadway version in the way the two characters sort of interact but not really.

[quote]Wrong pronoun, Leslie is a woman.

Right pronoun. The original poster was referring to the friends of Jeff Loeffelholz.

R242 is correct.

[quote]The original poster was referring to the friends of Jeff Loeffelholz.

Sorry, you're right, but the word order of that sentence was weird. It can be a little confusing to put the pronoun before the noun like that.

Sorry you were confused, r244/r241, but it’s a perfectly appropriate way to structure the sentence. And I suspect you knew that.

[quote]Evita and Che never met. He was still tooling around on a motorbike when she died.

But his family, who were middle class, were critical of Peron and his policies albeit not publicly since that could get you harassed -- or worse, imprisoned. Surely, a young Ernesto Guevara (who was 17-24 during Peron's first term) would've been affected by Evita's politics. (You don't think politically-conscious youths of today won't be affected by Trump?) She made it no secret that she loathed the middle class and oligarchy. Furthermore, Che thought her foundation was ludicrous and once for laughs wrote to her asking for a motorcycle. He never received a response.

Besides, Che in EVITA is not supposed to exist in her world. He's telling her story in retrospect and occasionally behaving like the Stage Manager in OUR TOWN (i.e., playing various roles such as bartender, reporter, emcee). He's not supposed to be part of the action but he's supposed to be representative of the criticism against Eva. The few times that Che and Eva interact in the musical is not supposed to be actual Che and Eva interacting.

If that's truly the denouement, r235, I'm glad I left at intermission. And even if it's gilding the lily, I'm still glad I abandoned that preposterous production.

[quote] Sorry you were confused, [R244]/[R241], but it’s a perfectly appropriate way to structure the sentence. And I suspect you knew that.

Why would you suspect that? I had to read it twice to pick it up, as it is worded awkardly (though correctly). Sometimes people post responses after a quick read without any malice. Suspicious much?

Along the Evita journey, she was softened. On the original concept album, Evita sings "Fuck the middle classes." By the time it hit Broadway, it was "Screw the middle classes." Sorry, I can't remember which lyric Elaine Paige sang. And Evita is further softened in the movie.

I remember Stewart Klein being the NYC theater reviewer for, I think, Channel 5. He gave his Evita review and there were several people who had lived in Peron's Argentina who wrote to him and told him that a musical about her was terrible because it trivialized what the Perons actually did. He read some of the letters on air. But there were a lot of very angry Argentine expats who hated the musical.

R241, actually, no it wasn't. On paper maybe, but the characters of Che and Evita were handled with a much lighter touch originally. There was much more humor in the performances of David Essex and Elaine Paige. I cannot say when the change in tone happened. It way have been in response to the negative editorials. All I know is that I was floored when I saw the US production with Patti and Mandy screaming at each other from beginning . It left them nowhere to go. (Note: I saw the pre-Broadway production in LA. Their performances may have mellowed by the time Evita hit Broadway.)

It's quite clear that Che is a stand-in for Everyman. There's not much point in pursuing historical accuracy.

I think the perception of the Evita film resembling a music video is perhaps because there's no spoken dialogue and everything is sung.

R251, actually, Prince insisted on historical accuracy for Che. It was not the intent of Weber or Rice, but it was part of Prince's vision for the original production.

While they would never replace Walter Bobbie's staging of the Chicago revival, the Weisslers could take the extreme measure of forbidding him to enter the theater or, at least, to attend rehearsals with understudies and new cast members. But I don't see that happening. I can't imagine SDC (his union) would allow it.

Does anyone have any info/insight into the current cast's attitude towards Bobbie? Now, that would be some real gossip.

r228, he loved pretty much the whole thing. So did his gf.

While they're at it, can they just replace everyone involved in Chicago? That show's been feeling stale and tired for quite awhile now.

Close Chicago. It wint ever surpass Phantom

r253 I understand, but with Che already written the way it was, there was only so much Prince (or anyone, really) could do in going for historical accuracy. Che and Eva never met, for example, but there's no way he was getting rid of Waltz for Eva and Che.

[quote]By the time it hit Broadway, it was "Screw the middle classes."

No. By the time it hit London, which happened first. Elaine sang “screw.”

[quote]On the original concept album, Evita sings "Fuck the middle classes."

Does she though? Check out 4:21.

r260, you are right. I pulled out the libretto that goes with the concept album and it's printed "Fuck the middle classes" so I guess somewhere I got confused. But it's definitely printed "fuck the middle classes" so I wonder if that was Tim Rice's original intention?

Patti Murin.

I don't know what she said and I really don't think her Anna will ever compare to the idea of Kristen Bell -- but I do enjoy how upset the BroadwayWorld Message Boards gets over her.

r262, it wasn't so much what she said, it was more about BWW's creator, Rob, who is an ass kissing star fucker. There were long time BWW posters, many who were quite savvy and knowledge about theater, whose opinions were attacked because Rob wanted to star fuck. It was the same with Marc Shaiman. He never hung around BWW until Hairspray. When long time posters started giving their opinions, Shaiman popped up and Rob started deleting people who gave honest feedback about the show. Once Hairspray died down, Shaiman never showed himself on BWW again. It was the same with Murin. She read one negative comment about her on BWW and suddenly Rob was deleting people's opinions and implementing rules he had never enforced before.

R245: And I suspect you know that, although not technically incorrect, it's a confusing way to structure a sentence when you use a pronoun such as "his" after a noun it doesn't refer to and before the noun it does refer to. So please don't school me.

[quote]I think the perception of the Evita film resembling a music video is perhaps because there's no spoken dialogue and everything is sung.

I think you're right, but it's a stupid comment.

[quote]Prince insisted on historical accuracy for Che. It was not the intent of Weber or Rice, but it was part of Prince's vision for the original production.

I assume that's why the "from 17 to 24" lyric was added. I have no problem with the interaction of Eva and Che as portrayed in the stage version of the musical. I think it's very clear that they'e not supposed to be interacting in real life and real time, and that the numbers where they do seem to interact -- "Goodnight and Thank You," "High Flying, Adored," "Waltz for Eva and Che," and so on -- are not presented as occurring in real time and space.

[quote]There were long time BWW posters, many who were quite savvy and knowledge about theater, whose opinions were attacked because Rob wanted to star fuck. It was the same with Marc Shaiman. He never hung around BWW until Hairspray. When long time posters started giving their opinions, Shaiman popped up and Rob started deleting people who gave honest feedback about the show. Once Hairspray died down, Shaiman never showed himself on BWW again. It was the same with Murin. She read one negative comment about her on BWW and suddenly Rob was deleting people's opinions and implementing rules he had never enforced before.

Rob is slime, Patti has some serious emotional problems (by her own admission), and Marc Shaiman cannot take criticism even when it's completely justified.

R263

I did see that they were on a roll tearing down Caissie Levy and Patti Murin because they announced their vacation days. Seems a bit odd considering one of the people most angered by Patti's 'work ethic' has an image of Lauren Ambrose as his avatar.

Did this new Patti Murin uproar just happen? Rob deleted the posts that went after her mental health?

[quote][R251], actually, Prince insisted on historical accuracy for Che. It was not the intent of Weber or Rice, but it was part of Prince's vision for the original production.

Actually, in the original concept album, Che was written to be Che Guevara. For example, in the original lyrics to "The Lady's Got Potential," Che sings about wanting to market an insecticide he'd invented. In real life, Vendaval was an insecticide that Ernesto Guevara unsuccessfully tried to market as a university student.

It has become a myth that Prince was the one who changed him from Everyman to Che Guevara. But what Prince did was ask Rice to write further lyrics in "Oh What a Circus" ("Or just a man who grew and saw from 17 to 24...") and dressed him in fatigues and beret to further drive the point home. Subsequent productions always portrayed him as such.

Rather, it was the film version that first cast him as an Everyman, which inspired the 2006 London revival and then the 2012 Broadway revival. Nowadays, you will see regional/community/high school productions doing likewise.

But he was was meant to be Che Guevara all along. Rice was inspired by the fact that Guevara (by the early '70s a revolutionary icon) was not only Argentinean but had also been a young man during the Peronist regime and his family had been critics of the administration.

[quote] Did this new Patti Murin uproar just happen? Rob deleted the posts that went after her mental health?

The original uproar had nothing to do with her mental health. There were several posters that had been discussing how great "Golden Age of Broadway" actors were. They were extolling the talents of LuPone, Lansbury, Merman, etc. The comparison was made that today's Broadway actors were nothing like the people before them. This coincided with the mean girls (Jen Cody and Hunter Foster) whining about Julia Roberts performing on Broadway. "Hollywood is taking our jobs." I don't know if Murin was part of that mean girls bitching, but the long time BWW posters went on a tear ripping every current Broadway performer, Murin included. She took offense and whined in some interview about BWW and Rob went nuts, overreacted and started banning people who regularly posted. The whole point was that Murin read one bad comment and star fucker Rob wouldn't support those who had made BWW popular. Most of the comments were just about how today's performers weren't great and nothing nearly as bitchy as you read on DL.

Hunter Foster and Jen Cody bitched about Scarlett Johansson winning the Tony (not Julia Roberts) in 2010 and started their whole campaign the year she and Denzel won... incidentally, Scarlett did a long interview with BWW right after the Tonys that year and directly addressed the whole thing in a very thoughtful and eloquent manner.

Speaking of Marc Shaiman, I listened to the Mary Poppins Returns soundtrack this morning. Shamain and Wittman are very good at imitating better writers and they’ve done a good job of making it sound like a slightly less inspired Sherman Brothers score. The production and orchestrations are terrific, of course.

R268 they also bitched about CZJ winning. Three movie stars in the same season.

[quote]r245 Sorry you were confused, [R244]/[R241], but it’s a perfectly appropriate way to structure the sentence. And I suspect you knew that.

[italic]LOCK 'IM UP!

The business works differently in 2018, but I'd suck the cock of any producer with a "Don't even bother if you can't commit to nine months" attitude towards stars.

r268, sorry you are right. It was ScarJo they bitched about.

How long is Elaine May committed to The Waverly Gallery?

Seriously, though I had problems with the play, the direction and the set design, May is giving a performance that people will talk about for decades to come. much as a former generation spoke about Laurette Taylor in The Glass Menagerie.

It will be fascinating to see if Glenda Jackson beats her for the Tony.

R268

Thanks for the recap. I was asking about the current BWW Patti Murin meltdown.

She appears to be able to trigger outrage via twitter by mentioning BWW message boards when certain boarders aren't allowed to drag her on the board without mods shutting down threads. But the thread I saw shut down was just people complaining that she has anxiety 'but thats no excuse' for announcing her holiday schedule. I just wonder if I missed something. Just not enough to look at Patti Murin's twitter....

Meanwhile - anyone else enjoy the shade and reversal of said shade from Jordan Roth's Broadway Menorah series?

What emoji did DannielleThomas post when she saw Menzel wasn't excluded from the diva's, but had her own day?

It's what my Mac calls the "rolling on the floor laughing face" (as against the "face with tears of joy").

Did Hunter Foster retire from acting? Or was he gradually blacklisted after the "Give the Tonys back to BROADWAY!" fallout? Seems to be mostly directing regional theatre these days.

Thanks R276

All I saw was a square - and that could mean anything. Probably not eggplant emoji - but you know...

SJBlock certainly appreciated being listed with the Divas. And he did it so effectively too - with LaChanz there for Summer and then pointing out she was there for Cher. It was well played.

[quote]It's quite clear that Che is a stand-in for Everyman.

When I played him, I was a stand-in for Everygay.

[quote]Finally Aunt Eller comes out

I KNEW she was a dyke!

[quote]It's quite clear that Che is a stand-in for Everyman.

And Cher is a stand-in for Everywoman.

The big question about Oklahoma is: are there beans in the chili or not?

Did Jordan Roth just abandon that strange webseries interview show he did? It was exceptionally weird... animated versions of B-list actors and very low-budget. Aren't his parents billionaires? Certainly, if he really wanted to have a show ala Paul Wonterek he could have it and make it decent. It's odd how it all has played out since he gave it so much hype yet he only has a show every few months.

Just got back from Girl from the North Country. Beautiful show, though probably too complex and dark for Broadway. It’s a hard ticket to get, though The Public’s weird ticketing left some of the best seats in the house vacant.

Holy shit. This is hilarious. And yes. Weird and apparently discontinued.

Don’t get the Danielle Thomas reference. Did she post so,etching bitchy on JR’s Instagram? And I thought most of her Broadway clients had dumped her?

The film of Evita went through nearly 15 years of Development Hell and during that time many different directors and stars were attached. The most famous were Ken Russell with Liza as Evita. She tested for it and the tests were alleged to have been brilliant. Many people saw them. Unfortunately the tests have disappeared. Rumors are that they still exist but nobody knows who has them or where they are.

OP's post for this thread is now grayed out on the thread list page. I don't remember that ever happening before on our Theatre Gossip threads. Any guesses on what has been posted to get us grayed out?

R286

She was just the first person to comment on the last Menorah Roth posted which was all Idina who had been notably excluded from the first Diva Menorah (which started with Chenoweth.)

I wonder what happened between Dannielle and Chenoweth. They were still together after the accident when Chenoweth toured Australia. She reps Betsy Wolfe now - but I don't know who else on Broadway she is connected to.

As for the JR comment post, the first day of Chanukah Roth did a Diva Menorah and Chenoweth was the first lit candle. The list of Divas are: Patti, Bette, Audra, Bernadette, Barbra then a surprise SJB, LaChanze (which made SJBs inclusion in context as Cher, and LaChanze as Summer), Cynthia Erivo, and Chenoweth. (Betty Buckley was the first commenter on twitter -- and she was featured later in the 'roar' series) -- commenters on Instagram noted Menzel was not included. Alice Ripley's absence was also noted (and suggested for her own day) when she fangirled for SJB. No one really mentioned Sutton but she is more of a triple threat rather than a Diva.

[quote]Did Hunter Foster retire from acting? Or was he gradually blacklisted after the "Give the Tonys back to BROADWAY!" fallout? Seems to be mostly directing regional theatre these days.

His career has slowly but steadily devolved since URINETOWN. I think he started to focus more on writing and directing, but even the most well known show he wrote -- SUMMER OF '42-- is really not very good. There was a very brief period when his career almost seemed to be going as well as his sister's, but then....not so much.

[quote]The film of Evita went through nearly 15 years of Development Hell and during that time many different directors and stars were attached. The most famous were Ken Russell with Liza as Evita. She tested for it and the tests were alleged to have been brilliant.

I remember reading that when the project with Liza was abandoned, but the supposed brilliance of the tests seemed like bullshit from day one, as Liza is completely and totally wrong for the part of Evita in every conceivable way.

Hunter Foster was in one of those Thomas Bradshaw plays on Theater Row a few years ago. He was totally naked in it, though I think you had to be way on the side to see the front of him. He had a very nice ass and backside though. Cute guy. I thin k he is doing more directing these days though. Actually, even though Bradshaw writes very outlandish things, mainly pushing the button and having lots of sex and nudity to get noticed, some of his writing was actually pretty good.

The Prom is only good if you are the absolutely middle as in “middlebrow” or “middle of the road.” I preferred King Kong; the puppet is incredible.

R286, R289.... Hi. I'm fairly new to the Theatre Gossip threads. I needed a break from the Treason threads.... Anyway, you mentioned Danielle Thomas. I used to work with a Danielle Thomas many years ago. I was an assistant to a movie agent; she was an assistant to a Music Agent. My boss's office was next to her boss's office, so my cubicle was next to hers. We were great work buddies for that period and hung out quite a bit. She introduced me to the LA night life scene. She was heavily into men, but oh-so-slightly inching towards women. Could it be the same person? If I were to cast her in a movie at that time, I would have cast Sherilynn Fenn.

So where the hell is she now? Thanks for any info.

[quote]Did this new Patti Murin uproar just happen? Rob deleted the posts that went after her mental health?

[quote]The original uproar had nothing to do with her mental health. There were several posters that had been discussing how great "Golden Age of Broadway" actors were. They were extolling the talents of LuPone, Lansbury, Merman, etc. The comparison was made that today's Broadway actors were nothing like the people before them. This coincided with the mean girls (Jen Cody and Hunter Foster) whining about Julia Roberts performing on Broadway. "Hollywood is taking our jobs." I don't know if Murin was part of that mean girls bitching, but the long time BWW posters went on a tear ripping every current Broadway performer, Murin included. She took offense and whined in some interview about BWW and Rob went nuts, overreacted and started banning people who regularly posted. The whole point was that Murin read one bad comment and star fucker Rob wouldn't support those who had made BWW popular. Most of the comments were just about how today's performers weren't great and nothing nearly as bitchy as you read on DL.

Please. Rob never had the balls to ban anyone. A bunch of the oldtimer assholes got their panties in a wad when they got suspended for a few days, and flounced, en masse, like a bunch of pussies. One even maintains a twiitter account, still stalking and referring to posts on BWW (Namoinexhile, maybe, who was FindingNamo, I think)

R293, Danielle Thomas is a manager. She went through a period of being sort of important, and pursued Tony winners (like Idina, KChen, Vicky Clark). Then some clients like KChen dropped her.

Here’s a picture of her (she’s in red on the right).

Red. I might have known it would be red.

Here’s an article about Dannielle Thomas.

I get the impression Dannielle has inched all the way over to women, r293.

[quote]OP's post for this thread is now grayed out on the thread list page. I don't remember that ever happening before on our Theatre Gossip threads.

I don’t think it has anything to do with the thread. Rather, the OP has been red tagged with a troll number, so that means his posts are grayed out.

R295, R297 .... OMG! Yep, that's her! I guess she's done pretty well for herself. When I knew her she was working for a music agent named Charley Ryan(?),,, She left his desk to go work for Lou Pitt. She was obsessed with Madonna and Sandra B at that time, (well, maybe just fascinated). She was definitely a barracuda-in-training.

Thanks!

R296... That's funnier than you realize. We both loved the movie Carrie and would often quote it. (Could R296 = DT??)

No, R300, I am sorry to say I am not your long lost friend.

Your search for blessed reunion must continue - -

Just want to say, loving the theater threads at the moment, really fun for someone a zillion miles away to hear from people who actually get to see the shows, and are not afraid to be honest, and funny as fuck. I know some want more 'cock going where' dirt, (Charlie is banging who?), I love the first person accounts, and the feeling of love of the stage. Gods, what a fucking awful season this is.

Anyway, 3 Guys Naked From The Waist Down, did anyone see it? Anyone bang Jerry Colker, he was hot. I shall just presume most of you diddled Scott Bakula

R301 lol It was just so funny to me that you posted that.

Even if I were to find her, she'd want nothing to do with me now. The person I worked for at the time provided me with great connections. DT was one of the most ambitious persons i'd ever met by that time. I assumed our friendship would last only as long as my apprenticeship.

But I appreciate the thought, :)

R303 Think she may actually need some friends now

DT - Ambitious without ability.

^ and...THIS.

I saw Evita in LA in its pre-Broadway tryout. Yes, I’m old. I distinctly remember Mandy Patinkin running around onstage during one number (A New Argentina, perhaps?) spraying a bug spray canister. I didn’t have a clue why he was doing that. Did they get rid of it by the time the show made it to Broadway?

R300 chum, now

R302 I saw 3 Guys Naked From the Waist Down at the Minetta Lane summer of 1985. Jerry Colker WAS hot. It was fun. They were all 3 great. It was a wacky show. Very funny and very odd. It would never exist today, sadly. Too kooky and specific. It was that classic kind of small off-broadway show of the 1970's/80's/90's. So many amazing actors came out of that off-broadway world. As well as writers and composers. It was also a training ground for artists, and now it is basically gone. It's too bad.

Don’t insult chum - it has a purpose.

R309 Thank you

Jerry Colker is in his mid-60s, and is a lifestyle and fitness coach now.

But he still knows all those moves he learned on Broadway!

I watched the first act of Holiday Inn on PBS last night. It's very entertaining.

What's the story on Bryce Pinkham. Straight, I believe.

[303] an intern with a Ross reports would be a better rep.

R287 Liza visiting Evita's tomb.

Re Hunter Foster, he's been appearing occasionally in LuAnn deLesseps' cabaret, which must be very depressing for him. There was film of his performance during the last Real Housewives of NY season.

Ewww re Jerry Colmer’s dirty feets.

Alas, Bryce is straight.

To the poster who fucked up on the pronoun.

Stop trying to defend yourself. Your reading skills are shit though you won't admit it. You should have read the sentence again if you thought the pronoun was incorrect. But you were too arrogant to admit you might have read it wrong and needed to reread it.

You clearly read too fast for your skills of comprehension.

Plenty of people are not too proud to reread something if they think it does not make sense because there is the possibility they might have misread it or not fully understood it.

[quote]I saw 3 Guys Naked From the Waist Down at the Minetta Lane summer of 1985. Jerry Colker WAS hot. It was fun. They were all 3 great. It was a wacky show. Very funny and very odd. It would never exist today, sadly. Too kooky and specific. It was that classic kind of small off-broadway show of the 1970's/80's/90's. So many amazing actors came out of that off-broadway world. As well as writers and composers. It was also a training ground for artists, and now it is basically gone. It's too bad.

I agree r309. I often talk about the loss of off-Broadway and someone on here will chime in and say, "Oh, we still have a thriving off-Broadway." But when you've seen how really great off-Broadway used to be, you understand. These days, what's equal to "3 Guys..." or "Falsettoland" or any of the other 100 productions that made off-Broadway great?

R321, I agree. I still remember the fun, if imperfect musicals such as Charlotte Sweet, Trixie True: Teen Detective, Ruthless!, etc.

Remember when they spoofed The Brady Bunch off-Broadway? It was called "The Real Live Brady Bunch" Jane Lynch was Carol.

I remember Charlie Victor Romeo being a breakout hit in the 90s, when that meant being mentioned on the news....

[quote]I watched the first act of Holiday Inn on PBS last night. It's very entertaining.

I saw it when it was first shown. I had never seen Bryce Pinkham in anything before and he was great, but I was even more impressed with Corbin Bleu.

Bryce Pinkham was much better in A Getleman's Guide to Love and Murder than he was in Holiday Inn. Better material, too.

R274-Nobody is going to give that cantankerous bitch a TONY 2 years in a row. She managed to piss off most people last season, anyway. Maybe it will finally be Annette Bening's turn.

Isn't Corbin Bleu a porn actor?

R267, did BWW fire all the original staff? There was a Craig who was always about town and a friend of a friend Eugene who was a smart guy, they actually had articles that were not copy and pasted press releases.

[quote]She managed to piss off most people last season, anyway.

Are you referring to Glenda Jackson? What did she do/say? I didn't follow last season.

[quote]did BWW fire all the original staff?

I don't think they fired them, I think anyone who was any good quit.

The other problem was that some long time posters worked in the industry. So you would see someone post a piece of news. Then Rob (or whoever) would delete the post. Then 30 minutes later the "BWW News Desk" would post the same information. I saw this several times when Broadway replacements and closures were announced. So those insiders stopped posting.

I specifically remember when Jeremy Piven left Speed-The-Plow, Norbert Leo Butz filled in until William Macy took over. Each time an actor changed, a poster at BWW posted what was about to happen and they had it before it was officially announced. So I knew that person had inside information.

Bryce Pinkham was also one of the best parts of the ill-fated Heidi Chronicles revival.

BWW message board moderator posted a cryptic "I'm back online and we have rules" message today.

Dannielle Thomas should DEFINITELY be pursuing Patti Murin as her actual replacement for Cheno. There are plenty of super-talented Broadway performers out there but nobody triggers head exploding meltdowns like this Patti; Not even Vosk doing a Puerto Rican accent or Barrett Wilber Weed recording messages for Cameo.

Did DT lose Megan Mullally at some point?

[quote]Actually, even though Bradshaw writes very outlandish things, mainly pushing the button and having lots of sex and nudity to get noticed, some of his writing was actually pretty good.

I guess maybe it's true that SOME of it was actually pretty good, but let's just say that the gimmicky garbage far outweighed any good stuff.

[quote]The Prom is only good if you are the absolutely middle as in “middlebrow” or “middle of the road.” I preferred King Kong; the puppet is incredible.

Pretty much every one agrees that the puppet in "King Kong" is incredible, but if you really liked that show better than "The Prom" overall -- well, there are no words.

[quote]Plenty of people are not too proud to reread something if they think it does not make sense because there is the possibility they might have misread it or not fully understood it.

I ain't too proud (to quote the title of an upcoming bio musical). I did reread the post in question after I was corrected, and I realized that the grammar of the sentence in question was technically correct, but I still think it was confusing because of the pronoun/noun order. I apologize for charging "incorrect pronoun, when it was not incorrect, just placed in a position that made the sentence confusing. Case closed, and no big deal. But here is the sentence again, so everyone can make their own judgement as to whether it's confusing because of the word order. Oh, and by the way, it's incorrect to write the possessive form of the name "Loeffelholz" by adding only an apostrophe, you would need to add an "s" as well: "Loffelholz's."

[quote]Leslie Stifelman, the “Chicago “ MD blamed by his friends for Jeff Loeffelholz’ apparent suicide, has been replaced.

Words of warning:

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO STAND IN FRONT OF R334 AT ANY BUFFET.

Singapore/Fling is also notorious for beating a topic to death and making sure he has the last word.

Madonna is a black hole on screen. She can't talk.

[QUOTE]BWW message board moderator posted a cryptic "I'm back online and we have rules" message today.

Well the mess last night led to an exodus of some posters to a new sub-Reddit imaginatively called Not Broadway World.

According to a poster there, Anne Hathaway is in the running to play Bobbie for the Broadway transfer of Company.

[quote]Isn't Corbin Bleu a porn actor?

Only in my fantasies, unfortunately.

[quote]Well the mess last night led to an exodus of some posters to a new sub-Reddit imaginatively called Not Broadway World.

What happened on BWW? I haven't visited that site in a few years.

R340 From what I can tell there was some negative posts about Patti Murin, which she whined about, and a mod went mad with banning people and deleting posts and eventually shutting down the board overnight - hence the "I'm back" message.

[quote]BWW message board moderator posted a cryptic "I'm back online and we have rules" message today.

[quote]Well the mess last night led to an exodus of some posters to a new sub-Reddit imaginatively called Not Broadway World.

Yeah, the board blew up for awhile last night when a few posters went on a rampage, bumping any old thread they could find referring to Patti Murin, making fun of her anxiety disorder, posting her tweets and attacking other posters. It got pretty ugly, the mods couldn't keep up with it, so they temporarily shut down the board. A few posters were temporarily suspended, and several flounced to that subreddit, whining about "censorship".

I've been following them a bit recently -- and I can't really tell how Patti Murin fits in. I saw other conflicts blowing up over politics. Who was doing the bumping/Murin stalking?

R341/R342 Wow. Thanks!

BWW was really a great place circa 2004-2008, particularly the off-topic board. After that, it went on a gradual decline. I continued to post off and on until around 2002.

Does anyone remember FameTracker? That was my go-to forum for several years, until they closed the message boards in early 2005.

The only reason BWW is popular is because Broadway.com decided to shut down their message boards. BWW quickly took up the void.

[quote]The only reason BWW is popular is because Broadway.com decided to shut down their message boards. BWW quickly took up the void.

Yes, and for much the same reason. Moderating it became too difficult and it just wasn't worth it. Posters were in-fighting and posting libelous information about performers - exactly what has started happening at BWW. It isn't just Murin. Other performers have started complaining about the nature of some of the more personal attacks.

A thread was deleted awhile back about a young fan who was harassing actors and one show or another, and some BWW posters doxxed the underage girl's info. BWW has needed to do this for a long time.

Also they actually track shows and discuss current productions. The assholes who want to bitch about Patti Murin having anxiety [AND a job because she is more talented (and professional) than Mr "Sondheimite"] -- really should chip in a few dollars and hang out here with the juicy dick pics. But that reddit seems like a nice home for them.

Besides the personal attacks - there WAS a thread about that Banner-waiving Trump disruptor where many of the nastiest posters admitted to having voted for Trump. That Elmo 'newbie' who started the thread admitted he had voted for Trump and that Conceirge dude jumped to his defense.

Considering the hate they have for Murin, the recent interest they showed in Vosk AND the creepy/threatening way Trumptards have been behaving -- actresses reacting negatively to the vitriol seems reasonable.

Bryce Pinkham was very miscast in Holiday Inn. They needed a generic and handsome song and dance man and Bryce is so much more interesting and quirky than that. His talents didn't suit the goody-goody material at all. He's got too much edge.

[QUOTE]A thread was deleted awhile back about a young fan who was harassing actors

Just the one, dear?

Anyone see Holiday Inn at Playmill?

Aside from their terrifying message boards, BWW is deplorable for other reasons, including their ridiculous "awards" system, which has many fatal flaws such as allowing people to vote even if they haven't actually seen any of the shows/performances. Pathetically, some people who are "nominated" for these awards actually crow about it on social media. So embarrassing.

The hate 'Sondheimite' has for Patti Murin and her anxiety should disqualify him from directing high pressure gigs. I'm not sure why people put so much time into slandering themselves on a moderated message boards.

I do like how they spend a fair amount of time on shows that are running.

As for actors being stoked when they get an award, R351 - why not? They get burned out when they are torn down, why not let them get pumped back up when the fans stop being nasty?

This week, a highly-anticipated experiment opens on Broadway. I'm talking, of course, about Ruben & Clay's First Annual Christmas Carol Family Fun Pageant Spectacular Reunion Show.

[quote]This week, a highly-anticipated experiment opens on Broadway. I'm talking, of course, about Ruben & Clay's First Annual Christmas Carol Family Fun Pageant Spectacular Reunion Show.

I hate shows with long titles.

'First Annual'? Are they expecting it to be a success and yearly thing?

Speaking of Christmas shows I am curious where the rumor started that Kristin is not being paid for this.

r354=Jean-Paul Marat

I remember that R323. I was asked up on stage out of the audience to participate in the pre-show game. Won a buttload of NYC-centric gift certificates and fun theater related stuff.

[quote]I'm not sure why people put so much time into slandering themselves on a moderated message boards.

Because they do it anonymously, so they are NOT slandering themselves.

As for Kristin and the Mormon thing, I'm sorry for her but I'm glad the hateful aspects of that ridiculous religion are being pounded home once again. I'm afraid that Broadway musical did a lot of damage in making Mormons appear warm and fuzzy and essentially harmless (if quite stupid), so it's important to be reminded that their "church" is a dangerous, anti-gay cult. (Also anti-black until they realized they HAD to change their minds on that.)

I’m not sure what, if anything, that Patti Murin has done wrong. Yes, she’s thin skinned and shouldn’t be reading these message boards but calling out horrendously bad behavior (in some cases) seems reasonable to me.

The reason Evita resembles a music video is because the last third of it (beginning with “Don’t Cry for Me, Argentina”) is primarily montages. Parker wisely didn’t trust Madonna to simply keep the camera on her as she sang “Don’t Cry for Me, Argentina.” He had to throw in a fucking montage. The only thing which saves that sequence is the one shot of the elderly Argentinean man in the crowd.

[quote]Parker wisely didn’t trust Madonna to simply keep the camera on her as she sang “Don’t Cry for Me, Argentina.”

I thought she did very well with "Eva's Final Broadcast" and "Lament" toward the end.

[quote]I thought she did very well with "Eva's Final Broadcast" and "Lament" toward the end.

The pain you see in her face was because Lourdes was laying on Madge's bladder.

R268 - from what i understand it was a perfect storm of indignities. Someone was also told they couldn’t do the red carpet with nominated spouse even though this person considers themselves a celebrity too. Plus someone who is considered a home wrecker presented an award and this was another indignity. This someone had become successful in another field at the time so it was decided this person was also an interloper even though they began on broadway.

[quote]Parker wisely didn’t trust Madonna to simply keep the camera on her as she sang “Don’t Cry for Me, Argentina.” He had to throw in a fucking montage.

I think Parker's direction and editing of the movie is great overall, but to this day I can't understand why he cuts AWAY from Madonna to a distant long shot just as she goes into the phrase "Don't cry for me, Argentina." Whatever reason there was for cutting away -- her acting was bad at that moment, the lip synch was off, whatever -- they should have just done it over until it was good enough to keep the camera on her in a closeup or medium shot for the first statement of the big tune.

Bless that child. She did what she could for her mother's ambition in her time of need.

I always thought that a more immersive sound design to Evita, allowing for more real world noises and even background chatter, could have saved it from the dulling feel that it was an overly long music video. I could be wrong -- but I do think a serious sound mix could have done wonders for upping the drama and keeping the audience engaged.

Back to the Message Board Meltdown.

I am reading the "Patti Murin is a bully" manifesto now. The same anon who 'knows what producers are saying about Patti's twitter feed last night' has also assured us he has watched the wank video an original RENT star sent to an NYU co-ed.

We are to assume this was Taye Diggs, right?

Good god. Who is Sondheimite?

R364, can you post this in English, please?

That’s English

R367

A poster from BWW who has decided to have a HUUUGE meltdown over Patti Murin.

Is there any chance of Waitress or Anastasia closing this winter-spring?

Based on last week's grosses, there's a big chance of The Prom closing almost immediately.

....and it's Sondheimite having the Reddit meltdown. He wasn't exaggerating--he has real mental health issues.

R363 actually, Madonna said at the time that she was thinking of her own mother, who also died of cancer at age 30 (when Madonna was 5).

Why isn't Anastasia doing as well as the other animated-inspired musicals? Though it did okay at the box office, it was a hit on home video and developed a cult following. I haven't seen the stage show so can't judge its quality, but that hasn't stopped mediocre-to-dreadful MEAN GIRLS and KING KONG from grossing over $1 million weekly.

R368 you couldn't follow that? The only thing that annoyed me was that R364 was being too coy and esoteric. Just name names, damn it!

Sondheimite should be having that meltdown HERE. Because he has literally told Patti Murin his name and is on the brink of doxxing himself everywhere in the name of punishing people who have mental health issues.

At least here he could stay anonymous and perhaps even distract himself from his obsession with a frau in case his meltdown is something that might cool off and pass given time.

I am kind of with you, now, R376. Are we claiming the 2010 Tonys is an issue?

The Patti Murin mania over at BWW really is hilarious, why people would get up in arms over a mediocre non-talent like her is a prime example of the Z-list nature of those message boards, and her actually INFORMING that website’s standards and practices is even more of an example of how far it has fallen. She must be close with someone over there, but I cannot see Rob Diamend caring about her feelings other than as a way to garner press? Almost all of the editorial over there is influenced by hits and clicks.

PM is a narcissist masquerading as a person with an anxiety disorder.

R379

Is the problem that she is misrepresenting the difficulty she has living with her anxiety?

I find internet diagnosed narcissists like Trump to be rage inducing over time because of the way they wreck havoc on reality and damage people with their self serving lies. I just don't see what the deal with hating on Murin and raging over her anxiety issues is intended to do -- beyond letting others with anxiety issues know that it triggers rage in some people rather than empathy. Which is kind of good to know. Assholes are gonna ass. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

Anastasia opened almost two years ago and is still doing pretty well---much better than The Prom is doing a couple of weeks after it opened.

What the hell is an anxiety disorder??

Do you remember that look on Ernest Borgnine's face when he saw you naked for the first time, Ethel? That’s what it is.

R338 for the win

I mean 383!

I was not on the BWW boards last night, but I was there for the other Patti Murin meltdown, and she really can not be a public performer if she has such a thin skin. If she’s missing a lot of performances, people are going to complain about it. If people think she’s giving a lousy performance, it’s their prerogative to say so.

She’s had two hot husbands, but she must be just exhausting at home.

Patti Murin’s pink rimmed crazy eyes and baby teeth are terrifying without even getting near her heaving mental issues! Did she invest in broadway world to have such input?!

When is Patti taking her vacation???

Patti LuPone and Patti Murin *IN* The Rink!

Can someone please explain what "doxxing" (I won't call it a word) means to those of us who still speak English?

Language evolves, you fossil. We won't tell you how to use Google, either.

[quote]Why isn't Anastasia doing as well as the other animated-inspired musicals?

Because (a) it doesn't have Disney behind it, and (b) that movie was nowhere near as successful as any of the Disney movies that have been turned into stage musicals. Also, the show (ANASTASIA) is lousy, but as you say, that hasn't prevented other lousy musicals -- based on animated movies or otherwise -- from becoming huge hits.

[quote]She’s had two hot husbands, but she must be just exhausting at home.

Damn, I had completely forgotten that Murin used to be married to Curtis Holbrook -- though there's no reference to their marriage on her Wikipedia page. What a piece of work she is. Does anybody know what caused the breakup, or should we speculate?

Always found it funny that nearly 40 year old Patti is playing a 16 year old princess... maybe she can play the dead mom in the inevitable live action remake

Are there ANY theater websites that AREN’T cesspools of circus freaks and typos? Paul Wontorek and Richie Ridges are definitely not ready for prime time. Wontorek has a mouth full of marbles and head full of flop sweat, yikes!

[quote]Other performers have started complaining about the nature of some of the more personal attacks.

R346 what Broadway performers (other than the desperate Patti Murin) actually give a shit about BWW message boards anymore? It's a shadow of what it once was. There's barely any discussion about individual actors or shows. It's mainly threads where people post playbills for sale, and the occasional reviews thread.

People over the years have posted far worse than "Patti Murin is missing a lot of shows" and there hasn't been the kind of draconian lockdown response that Patti has inspired twice now. You know what would help her anxiety? Not searching BWW for mean things said about her. She needs to get her ass to work or leave the show. Laura Benanti broke her neck and missed far fewer performances, and still got more shit than a few bored trolls said about Patti yesterday.

[quote][R346] what Broadway performers (other than the desperate Patti Murin) actually give a shit about BWW message boards anymore?

Lots of them, r395. Most of them are simply smart enough to shrug it off. The smartest ones don't read them at all.

[quote]People over the years have posted far worse than "Patti Murin is missing a lot of shows" and there hasn't been the kind of draconian lockdown response that Patti has inspired twice now.

Yeah....it wasn't as simple as that. People were attacking her personally and making fun of her illness. The mods couldn't delete posts fast enough, and when a thread was deleted, another would pop up. It got really nasty and out of control rapidly.

The mods have repeatedly alluded to something else that occurred that caused this reaction. There might have been threats from one of the posters - or who knows, maybe Disney stepped in behind the scenes?

Either way, I think the idea of a stricter enforcement over there isn't a bad thing. Here? Posters with obvious mental illnesses and disturbed teenagers have been ganged up on BWW in the past (I know, Mary! Think of the children!)

It isn't the place for pointless bitchery.

r390, for people not up on popular culture and the current slang, there is a wonderful site called Urban Dictionary. You really should bookmark it.

FOLLIES announces casting for all four leads and we're debating about BWW? Keep up.

PS Will they film/broadcast again?

[quote]FOLLIES announces casting for all four leads and we're debating about BWW? Keep up.

Another FOLLIES discussion or discussion of of the collective meltdown of BWW that happened about 24 hours ago? I can see why people would choose the BWW debacle. It will hae all blown over in a week. FOLLIES is forever.

Funny, though, that you picked that particular article, written by Pat Cerasaro, who was a senior editor for BWW. He posted some pretty nasty stuff himself under the name pgenre (not doxxing him - it's also his twitter handle).

[quote][R268] - from what i understand it was a perfect storm of indignities. Someone was also told they couldn’t do the red carpet with nominated spouse even though this person considers themselves a celebrity too. Plus someone who is considered a home wrecker presented an award and this was another indignity. This someone had become successful in another field at the time so it was decided this person was also an interloper even though they began on broadway.

As someone else said, r364 's post is english, but if you weren't aware of what they are talking about, it's baffling, Many Broadway actors objected to the 2010 Tonys, which had a lot of non-Broadway performances in it. Hunter Foster and Jen Cody (who wanted to walk the red carpet) started an ill-advised group called Give the Tonys back To Broadway (or something like that). BWW lost it completely over that one. Here's ONE of the threads, which went on over 20 pages.

What an awful article, the news is buried in the final paragraph. To save people a click

[QUOTE]Once again leading the cast will be Janie Dee and Peter Forbes, with West End stalwarts Alexander Hanson and Joanna Riding stepping into the roles originated by Philip Quast and Imelda Staunton. Will lightning strike again? Featuring a quartet that notable in the central parts ensures most likely, yes.

So her "illness" is that she gets anxious about performing??

Oh good god enough with this mind numbing nonsense about BWW and Patti Murin! Yes we get it now move on fellas!

Thank God Curtis Holbrook got away from that nutjob. He's got a beautiful new wife and expecting a child. Now hopefully Colin Donnell sees the light.

[quote]Oh good god enough with this mind numbing nonsense about BWW and Patti Murin! Yes we get it now move on fellas!

Sure. Whaddya got?

I asked about the Cher Show and The Ferryman and got crickets.

The Broadhurst's lower lobby caught fire last night, but the theater was dark and no one got injured.

Link about the fire

[quote]Hunter Foster and Jen Cody (who wanted to walk the red carpet) started an ill-advised group called Give the Tonys back To Broadway (or something like that).

To be fair, Jen Cody had just starred in Disney's THE PRINCESS AND THE FROG as 'Charlotte' and won an Annie Award (aka the Oscars for animated films) for her performance, so she probably felt entitled to walk the red carpet.

Alvin Epstein 1925-2018 A legendary career.

[quote]Always found it funny that nearly 40 year old Patti is playing a 16 year old princess..

Perhaps it's this new age-blind casting Broadway is trying out? I read that in the new TO KILL A MOCKING BIRD play there are thirty- to forty-year-olds playing Scout, Jem, and Dill. What the actual fuck? Couldn't they get actual child actors?

Speaking of late lamented off-Broadway, I still miss the upper west side Promenade Theater that died so we could get yet another Sephora, which eventually died and left us with an empty storefront. That inspired me to dig out my CD of Birds of Paradise, a show that played there in the early 1990s. It's got a nice score and quite a cast: Donna Murphy, Mary Beth Peil, Barbara Walsh, John Cunningham, J.K. Simmons, Todd Graff, Crista Moore and the only one I'm not familiar with, Andrew Hill Newman. Can you imagine a cast like that off-Broadway now? And it was directed by the man we all love to hate: Arthur Laurents.

[quote]Speaking of late lamented off-Broadway, I still miss the upper west side Promenade Theater that died so we could get yet another Sephora, which eventually died and left us with an empty storefront. That inspired me to dig out my CD of Birds of Paradise, a show that played there in the early 1990s

I worked on that show!

Andrew Hill Newman was Doug Henning's understudy in Merlin.

Any gossip, R410? Was Laurents on his best behavior?

does Anastasia really take place on an nearly empty stage with computer generated video making all the scenery

R396 yes, but this is the second time this has happened with Patti. The last time, it was because she was upset that people were "celebrating" the demise of the Nerds musical, when the thread was really a discussion of all the warning signs. BWW management overreacted and it made her not well-liked. And this incident was trolling that was specifically intended to get a rise out of the mods. That's not a regular occurrence. If you can find another comparably mean-spirited post (outside the Clay/Ruben thread) in any of the threads on the first 5 page of BWW, I would be shocked. That place is dead.

Are there any decent new musicals coming to Broadway anytime soon? Hamilton, Dear Evan Hansen, Come From Away, heck, even Book of Mormon are huge sold out hits. The only new originalish musicals I've heard about are Hadestown and Be More Chill, neither of which I can imagine will pack in the crowds for years to come. Everything else is just a popular movie with songs thrown in. How do you go from multiple seasons that prove original ideas can be successful on Broadway, to Tootsie, Pretty Woman, and Beetlejuice in a single season?

The name Laurents and the phrase "best behavior" can't be used in a sentence unless there's also a "not" or a "never" as well.

Uh, may he rest in peace.

I do hope they give Janie Dee a new costume.

Patti Murin is such a fat girl name. Was she fat when she was a kid?

She wore green the last time

[quote]The Broadhurst's lower lobby caught fire last night, but the theater was dark and no one got injured.

Where was Patti Murrin at the time of the fire? I hear from BWW posters that she has mental issues. If she's running around starting fires in Broadway theaters, she needs to be stopped.

I loved going to The Promenade - I believe that's where I saw Three Tall Women?

I think of all the off-Broadway theaters we lost. The Promenade, Actor's Playhouse, Circle Rep (both locations), Village Gate, Charles Ludlam's theater in Sheridan Square, The Variety, the WPA Theatre and there are several others which I'm not remembering.

Does anything play at Minetta Lane? I like the location, but haven't been inside in years.

Minetta lane does a lot of those broadcast shows now,, but what ofThe Union Sq,, Circle in the Square, The Gramercy, The Perry Street, Lucille Lortel for open runs?

Century Center? Provincetown playhouse ? Village Gate?

They all went quickly after Sept 11th.

One of the big Union Square theaters, on the street near the Barnes & Noble, still retains the exterior, but otherwise has been razed and is being turned into commercial/residential space.

[quote]Does anything play at Minetta Lane? I like the location, but haven't been inside in years.

It's still used from time to time, but not as frequently as it was during the golden age of off-Broadway. I remember seeing "Other People's Money" "Cowgirls" and "The Last Five Years" there.

Jeffrey at the Minetta Lane!!!

It is pretty clear from his own posts on reddit, that BWW message board stalwart, Sondheimite/PercySaintSomething send Patti Murin a personal message with his real name attached where he scolded her for anxiety because he had several suicide attempts in his past.

This guy appears proud of how much he hated himself and is even more proud of how much he hates Patti Murin now. And his buddies are all in, supporting his tirades rather than suggesting he dial it down a notch or working out whether his current meltdown is a sign he is on a downward spiral. I don't even think he was the one bumping all the threads.

The mods are not his buddies and do not appear to have any influence over him or those who egged him on so instead they have tried to take control and just shut down everything before piecing together how this sort of thing should be handled. Sondehimite is not a teenage girl on adderall so the manic posts and fixated hate on Murin combined with the personal message are something that should be taken seriously.

The mods at BWW have changed the rules for personal messaging. Now they are demanding that you have a facebook account or give them a drivers license ID before you can message. This means that you are no longer actually anonymous to them in a very connected fashion. (Unlike boards like 4-chan which collects data that can be possibly searched and analyzed for probable ID when a poster commits a crime - being able to find and check up on someone who sends a suicidal message needs to happen quickly.) This indicates that they aren't making changes because they are concerned about actual crimes or stalker threats (or making Murin feel better about herself) but what to do when a previously anonymous poster starts to talk about suicide.

People have noted that Sarah Silverman recognized a rage filled meltdown as a mental health crisis on twitter and reached out to an angry hater with much less information to go on. I think we can assume Patti Murin is only barely managing her own mental health issues and is open about discussing her struggles but is not in the Sarah Silverman zone of being a free but famous mental health resource.

This whole thing was fascinating.

Also EVERYONE involved, including Sondheimite, is so much more talented and fascinating than any real housewife or Kardashian. This sort of thing would make for much better realityTV than what is out there. We should petition Andy Cohen to produce a show "Real BroadwayWorldMeltdown Manhattan" starring Broadway Actors and their most histrionic haters.

Is Sondheimite a real actor?

I saw The Lisbon Traviata at the Promenade. Leonard Bernstein was also there with a boytoy in very tight leather pants (Lenny was in a long fur coat). I remember very little about the play, but Nathan Lane was hilarious.

R429

I think he implied he was in a professional version of Hedwig. (Implying he was in the tour?) Now he wants to direct.

Patti Murin should do the Shroud of Turin musical, Into the Light!

Musicals based on “original” ideas don’t make them good; and those adapted from existing source material are not inherently bad. People are stooooopid that way.

Regarding Promenade.....

stomp and blue man have occupied two off bway theaters forever

[quote]stomp and blue man have occupied two off bway theaters forever

So did The Fantasticks. Unfortunately, when the landlord wanted something that brought in more revenue, the production was closed and the theater converted.

Just what this city needs, another Sephora....

R430, you don’t remember naked John Slattery in that production?

R437, by Off-Broadway, he was wearing a jock as fully nude was too distracting.

Oklahoma! is taking Circle in the Square.

Breakfast, anyone?

Another closed off-Broadway theater was The Lamb's which gave us Godspell revival (starring Trini Alvaredo), Painting Churches, Breakfast with Les & Bess, Jon & Jen and my favorite, the revival of "I Do! I Do!" starring Karen Ziemba.

So what happened with the off-Broadway theaters? Did they need a Shubert Organization-type leader to protect them?

I think it's interesting that you are all bemoaning Sephoras and long lost theaters and not recognizing that commercial Off Broadway is essentially dead and whatever is left plays at the New World or Signature theater multiplexes. If there was an audience for the shows at any of these spaces and people could make money they wouldn't be gone. This is also the reason why when things get to Broadway they often suck. There is no space for learning.

What happened to commercial off-Broadway?

quite simply, New York theater's audience became tourists. It hurts, but it's true.

[quote] New York theater's audience became tourists. It hurts, but it's true.

Exactly. And ticket prices are insane so the person who saw 8 shows in 1995 for $400, now sees one show for $400.

I loved the Lambs revival Godspell. Anne Bobby, Trini Alvarado, Laura Dean

Is Patti Murin's sickness really that she gets anxious about performing? If so, if I were Disney I would fire her.

Maybe this was covered here, but does anyone know why that show at the Public kept getting cancelled?

[quote]I think it's interesting that you are all bemoaning Sephoras and long lost theaters and not recognizing that commercial Off Broadway is essentially dead and whatever is left plays at the New World or Signature theater multiplexes. If there was an audience for the shows at any of these spaces and people could make money they wouldn't be gone.

Do you REALLY think it's that simple? Don't you have enough brains to realize that skyrocketing real estate values have A LOT to do with this as well, among other reasons (including the huge change in audience demographics)? Honestly, what an ill-informed post.

[quote]I loved the Lambs revival Godspell. Anne Bobby, Trini Alvarado, Laura Dean

They performed "All Good Things, By My Side and Day By Day" on the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. Starts around the 9:50 mark. Trini was a graduate of the "open your mouth as wide as possible" singing school.

Then fast forward to 19:00 to see Forbidden Broadway. (This was 1988 and Broadway was crap so they had to feature all the off-Broadway shows).

The Lambs was a CHRISTIAN theater and would only allow shows that were pure and nor DARK SIDED!!!!

This could be a thread of its own, but those 1980s Macys Parades also serve as a capsule of a different style of entertainer. It was perfectly normal for the likes of Harry Groener and Arleen Sorkin to do a song and dance number. Find me a sitcom star who can and would be willing to perform like that today.

If you donate to Hillary Clinton's PAC, she'll take you to see a Broadway play. What do you think she'll take you to?

It would hilarious and a bit surreal to attend Wicked with Mrs. Clinton.

Yeah, yeah I know, they separate.....get ovuh it.

These boards will explode once everyone gets a look at the Fish Oklahoma. I can't wait!

Are there any legal scholars around? How was the spoof on the Brady Bunch able to perform without a cease and desist? Sherwood Schwarz was so protective of the material when they did the movies.

Why is there a new article on the London Follies casting? Haven't those names been announced for months now?

[quote]How was the spoof on the Brady Bunch able to perform without a cease and desist?

Some of these spoof shows go ahead with no permission whatever and are deemed permissible under laws protecting parodies. Others do go through channels and get some kind of authorization. I don't remember the deal with the Brady Bunch spoof. Anybody?

I saw OKLAHOMA! at St. Ann's and I felt like was trapped in Grad School Hell. I can't imagine this working on Broadway. It's so NOT entertaining. And the intermission chili was just silly. I thought dinner theatre was dead!

I'm watching Naked City with guest star MISS DIAHANN CARROLL!

The Brady Bunch spoof was no more harmful or disrespectful of the original material than one of those old Carol Burnett skits spoofing a classic old movie. Those characters are now essentially famous enough to be fair game for parody.

Matthew Lombardo (of Looped and High fame) won a case against the powerful Dr. Suess estate last year permitting him to go ahead with Who's Holiday, a smutty and hilarious parody about the grown up Cindy Lou Who, living in a trailer trash campsite.

I have to say, it will be absolutely fascinating to see what Tony nominations this new Oklahoma earns. A critic's darling but what about the Tony nominators/voters?

It's an audacious production on many levels but I can't imagine there will be an audience that embraces it on Broadway. St. Ann's on the Brooklyn docks is one thing.......

r416 Janie Dee needs TWO new costumes.

And Young Phyllis outta L&J, r464!

r447 What Disney should have done was not hire her. To fire her now would get them sued.

r465 Yeah, it insults the audience.

R452

Megan Mullally, Sean Hayes, Eric McCormack and um... Kristen Bell.

I totally donated to that Hillary thing. Eh, why not!

Also....

[quote]you don’t remember naked John Slattery in that production?

Tell me there are pictures somewhere!

There is a recording at Lincoln Center theater collection in house where all of Slattery is on display,as well as Nathan's funny perfomance. Slattery was brunette at the time and yummy.

Is this the trans Oklahoma?

I want to hear about the intermission chili. Is Tabasco on hand?

R469

I hope you get it. Go see Wicked!

Did you see the 2018 top ten for stage in Entertainment Weekly:

10) Head Over Heels 9) Girls & Boys 8) Mean Girls 7) The Waverly Gallery 6) The New One 5) My Fair Lady 4) Torch Song 3) The Ferryman 2) Harry Potter and the Cursed Child 1) Angels in America

Wow.

Why chili? Isn't that of Texas origin?

r469 Of course I had to look up what young John Slattery looked like.

Also this.

Michael Berresse is handsome but would be 100 times hotter if he stopped coloring his hair. He looks like he groomed with Bosco.

The chili was served in a small paper cup and was more akin to a rather bland kidney bean soup with pepper than actual chili. The cornbread was rather bland as well. Both amounted to no more than a couple of bites.

What was The New One ? That EW list is pretty feeble -- what about the Richard Nelson UNCLE VANYA?

The New One is one of the best shows currently playing on Broadway. You should get out more.

The International Chili Society is clear: traditional red chili does not have beans.

And I'm sure the Traditional Southwestern Cornbread Historical Society would be appalled, but Aunt Eller was busily dumping boxes of this in a bowl at the top of the first act....

[quote]He looks like he groomed with Bosco.

Have some respect! I just died!

"There is no space for learning."

First, you need talent to learn.

*****************

EW is the barometer of nothing.

**************** Audacious? How about first realizing the script as written, the first job of any production?

Anything new on the Faye Dunaway play? I guess the Helen Hayes would be open in the summer.

R179, the musical had a short run, about 3 months, in London 2013-14, didn't get many good reviews Two lovely ballads, This Side Of The Sky and I'm Hopeless When It Comes To You. I saw it, felt it was a somewhat skimpy production. There's CD, worth having tho'. Part of the ALW canon. A small show, not a huge hit over there, little chance it'd transfer. In a small venue, a small & tight production possibly could have a run off-Broadway here.

R194, Grapes of Wraith.

R474 In other words, the Roths wrote EW a big check.

Just watched the Hal Prince doc. Not really anything new to anyone with passing familiarity with Prince's career, but still an absolute pleasure. BTW, Larry Fuller was such a dish; they showed a brief clip of him in Sweeney rehearsals.

I wish the gay Oklahoma from Oregon had transferred instead. It even had a trans Aunt Eller!

BWW’s PalJoey IS matinee Aunt Ellet!

*the T is for Trans

That Faye Dunaway thing will never happen.

Agreed, r489. Nothing was unfamiliar but, as a musical theatre writer, damn, I found it inspiring even at this late date. And I suspect that inspiration is what accounts for Prince's immensely successful collaborations.

How does the Prince docu compare to that awful MTC show?

[quote]Matthew Lombardo (of Looped and High fame) won a case against the powerful Dr. Suess estate last year permitting him to go ahead with Who's Holiday, a smutty and hilarious parody about the grown up Cindy Lou Who, living in a trailer trash campsite.

He may or may not have been on the right side of that issue, depending on how you look at it, but regardless, he is an untalented, dangerous, nasty asshole.

[quote]That Faye Dunaway thing will never happen.

Agreed. Not a chance in hell. Only question is how and when exactly it will collapse, but I'll bet money it won't even begin rehearsals. The whole idea is probably some sick publicity stunt.

I wonder what the next cause du jour will be with casting? What other infinitesimally small subcategory of identification will be launched to the forefront of our fight for justice and demand to be cast? Trans and non binary are already passe

Well, r495, the facts are told from Prince's POV with accompanying photographs and footage, that's all. Very informative and entertaining.

I would like to see a canine Ado Annie, this r497. Dogs can play more than just “Sandy” in Annie!

What about people who identify as dogs?

Everyone who has gotten involved with Mathew Lombardo has ended up in Litigation. Looped and High both had lawsuits all over the place.

Wouldn't Faye have to be able to open her mouth in order to do a play?

R500, the new revival of CATS will have gender- and species-blind casting. The part of Grizabella will be played by a man who identifies as a woman who identifies as a dog.

Ready to play a dazzlingly new Ado Annie!

[quote]Matthew Lombardo (of Looped and High fame) won a case against the powerful Dr. Suess estate last year permitting him to go ahead with Who's Holiday, a smutty and hilarious parody about the grown up Cindy Lou Who, living in a trailer trash campsite.

[quote]He may or may not have been on the right side of that issue, depending on how you look at it, but regardless, he is an untalented, dangerous, nasty asshole.

[quote]Everyone who has gotten involved with Mathew Lombardo has ended up in Litigation. Looped and High both had lawsuits all over the place.

Yes, hell yes, and yes. He sued Valerie Harper for getting cancer., for some ridiculous amount like %50,000. He lost. An awful excuse for a human being.

[quote]Michael Berresse is handsome but would be 100 times hotter if he stopped coloring his hair.

I know what you're saying, r478, but I don't think he dyes his hair. I've seen him more or less right out of the shower, and his hair is dark and thick, shot through with individual strands of gray. I don't know why he would color it that way, but I suppose it's possible.

He does often use some sort of hair product (which, yeah, blech), but the gray is still visible if you're close to him. There's just not a lot of it. Good genes, maybe? I do think adding a gray streak or two would look good on him.

It wouldn't kill him to try a different hairstyle, either.

I've posted in the past two threads asking whether it was true the St. Ann's production served chili and cornbread. Glad people are finally answering.

Now, will that bi/trans Oklahoma! also transfer?

NO-KLA-HOMO.

r506, Oklahomo!, mid 1990s gay porn video about cowboy Curly and rancher Jud rivaling for farmhand Laurey and which will get to take him to the "box" social. Follows the R&H original fairly closely with the songs replaced by sex scenes. I have a VHS copy.

^ Sorry, forgot the link.

Could OKLAHOMO transfer to the Great White Way ? ?

There can be a whole new score!

Potential Song titles requested...

[italic] Oh What a Beautiful Bonin'[/italic] for starters (?)

"Out I've Been Reamed"

"I Can Say Blow"

"Many a New Gay"

"Lonely [Back] Room"

OKLAHOMA! Starring Damon Daunno’s crotch:

Damon Daunno's crotch, ass, strut, and Jeff Buckley warble, yes. Rebecca Naomi Jones' cold and timid Laurey, no.

Patti Murin is seriously insane, and what kind of “agreement” would she have “made” with BWW.com, my word that site is tragic!

You know r417 for a “fat girl” Murrin did ok in hooking Colin Donnell. I wouldn’t mind going home to that every night.

Larry Fuller really was handsome. Did he have a long term bf?

I don't understand the Patti Murin thing. Why does she miss a lot of performances? Is she that special and talented that there isn't a busload of actresses who can replace her? If I were her I'd be so much more worried about becoming someone producers won't hire than I would about the 14 year old BWW posters.

I can’t imagine Disney putting up with Murin’s hysteria much longer R518, plus she’s kind of a dud in the role.

The gay Oklahoma from Oregon got rave reviews. Laurey and Curley were a lesbian couple, and Will Parker and Ado Andy were a gay male couple. And Aunt Eller was trans (a man in drag).

I guess it will take Marianne Elliot to get it transferred.

I'm amazed Ted Chapin allowed this. ^^

Rumor was that Larry Fuller and Prince were lovers. adding to the Prince gay rumors.

As for Slattery, his nude entrance took away the breath of much of the audience. Male frontal nudity in those days wasn't commonplace. Friends who knew John said that he absolutely fluffed himself (or someone did it for him) right before he entered.

[quote]The Brady Bunch spoof was no more harmful or disrespectful of the original material than one of those old Carol Burnett skits spoofing a classic old movie.

But the Carol Burnett skits were all slightly changed. For example, Norma Desmond became Nora Desmond. Gone With The Wind became Went With The Wind.

The Real Live Brady Bunch was not parody. They actually performed episodes of the show. So it could have been shut down and the parody defense would not have worked.

It began in Chicago as an unauthorized production. Then Schwartz realized that the stage show pointed the way to new profits and authorized it.

This led to it moving to New York. Then Schwartz developed the Brady Bunch movie which borrowed the campy tone of the stage show (as well as the stage show's Jan).

Regarding fair use, it is interesting that Gidget Goes Psychotic had to become Psycho Beach Party, but the Cindy Lou thing was OK. I expect it is all about who has the highest paid Lawyer

R520 how did that concept work in 1906/1907 Oklahoma territory?

With the gay Oklahoma, I'm assuming they had to transpose the music to keys that would fit the respective singers?

I'm just a girl who cain't say no is already a gay anthem so

The Rodgers and Hammerstein Organization is no longer family-owned. The grandkids sold it to some conglomerate that then sold it to another company. Ted Chapin is still there, but he is pretty much powerless. That's why "Shall We Dance" was licensed for use in a violent video game commercial and why Jack O'Brien and his team of hapless collaborators were allowed to cut text and entire songs from Carousel. And that's why the R&H Organization okayed both the gay Oklahoma and the blood-splattered finale of the production headed to Broadway.

I would love to know what Dick, Oscar or Mary would have thought of all this.

[quote]I would love to know what Dick, Oscar or Mary would have thought of all this.

It's all about the money. And a girl's gotta eat. And my shitty show, Light In The Piazza, isn't as good as the worst R&H musical.

One of my first shows in NY was at the Theater de Lys - Cloud 9 by Caryl Churchill, directed by Tommy Tune. I was 19 years old and it changed my life.

[quote]Ted Chapin is still there, but he is pretty much powerless.

That’s not true st all. The NY Times had a huge article a couple of months ago, an interview with Chapin, where he explained why he approved both the rethought Oklahomas, and ehat he thought of them. I actually would have thought from the article that the gay version would have gotten the okay.

[quote]an interview with Chapin, where he explained why he approved both the rethought Oklahomas, and ehat he thought of them

Why did he approve them? My thought is that if you want to do a gay cowboy musical, write your own and leave someone else's work alone.

The sale of R&H wasn’t the grandkids doing. Mary Rodgers and one of the Hammerstein daughters were bith alive at the time and signed off on it. In fact, Mary Rodgers really pushed for it.

R&H was sold in early 2009. Mary Rodgers died in mid 2014, and Alice Hammerstein in 2015.

[quote]The Real Live Brady Bunch was not parody. They actually performed episodes of the show. So it could have been shut down and the parody defense would not have worked. It began in Chicago as an unauthorized production. Then Schwartz realized that the stage show pointed the way to new profits and authorized it. This led to it moving to New York. Then Schwartz developed the Brady Bunch movie which borrowed the campy tone of the stage show (as well as the stage show's Jan).

Thanks, that all sounds familiar, but I couldn't remember the sequence of events.

[quote]Regarding fair use, it is interesting that Gidget Goes Psychotic had to become Psycho Beach Party, but the Cindy Lou thing was OK. I expect it is all about who has the highest paid Lawyer

I think the character name "Gidget" was copyrighted, and that was the issue there. I never saw the Lombardo thing, but I double checked and the character is apparently referred to as Cindy Lou Who, so I think you are right about the lawyers.

There is (or was) a troupe in Brooklyn that did something similar, a word-for-word, motion-for-motion live-action version of "A Charlie Brown Christmas." I'm surprised they never got a cease-and-desist from whoever administers Shultz' properties... or maybe they did. Haven't seen them around lately.

[quote]There is (or was) a troupe in Brooklyn that did something similar, a word-for-word, motion-for-motion live-action version of "A Charlie Brown Christmas." I'm surprised they never got a cease-and-desist from whoever administers Shultz' properties... or maybe they did. Haven't seen them around lately.

It's wrong for them to do that without paying any rights (if that what happened), but I think sometimes the rights holders either don't hear about some of these shows or, if they do, they decide it's just not worth it to fight them.

I'm pretty sure they weren't paying anything for the rights, or the Vince Guaraldi music. I'd be surprised if they recouped anything beyond the price of a round of beer for the cast after the show. Very low-budget stuff. Maybe the rights holders didn't hear about it, or maybe they made the same calculus as Sherwood Schwartz: There's no profits to take a percentage of here, and all it's doing is raising interest in a 50-year-old property.

[quote]I'm pretty sure they weren't paying anything for the rights, or the Vince Guaraldi music.

When they did the sorry-assed revival of "You're A Good Man Charlie Brown" on Broadway, they used a snippet of the Guaraldi music. I always wondered if they paid anything for that. Also the same with The Addams Family. They used the tv show's theme music with the finger snaps. I wonder if they paid to use that.

Isn't it a huge Broadway mystery why Murin was hired for the Disney show? She isn't a name, and the role doesn't call for special talents, if even she had any. And she had proved herself a problem in her BWW shenanigans. The part she's playing is right for just about any woman performer below a certain age.

Why did she get it? And why, with her "anxieties," is she keeping it? Is it because the public doesn't care whether or not she actually shows up to work? It's not as though you were missing a performance by Gwen Verdon.

Of course they paid, r540.

Given the presumptive audience for Frozen, I wonder whether all this disability/tender-to-the-touch drama is actually increasing interest in the show. Will she? Won't she? Take a side and buy a ticket for a ringside seat!

How's Betty/Dolly doin'? Just saw a commercial in L.A., and it was rather underwhelming. Just pull quote after pull quote from who knows where. The final one was "The one and only Betty Buckley". That one, I noted, was a pull quote from...Liz Smith. Soooo.....

The parallel mystery is why Betsy Wolfe was not cast and yet also dropped from Carousel

[quote]Also the same with The Addams Family. They used the tv show's theme music with the finger snaps. I wonder if they paid to use that.

At the time, there was a lot of publicity around the fact that the original plan was NOT to use ANY of the TV theme for THE ADDAMS FAMILY in the stage musical, but then they realized they HAD to include at least a little bit of that music -- the part with the finger snaps -- to make the audience happy. So they wound up paying through the nose to include a few measures of that music at the very start of the show.

The Lambs theatre was my favorite Off-Broadway theatre,saddened it is gone The Church of the Nazerene owned the building and it is true they would not allow any show with nudity or swearing to occupy the space. A publicst I knew told me that the Nazarene board went crazy when a play about John Ruskin's marriage running at the Lambs was advertised as "the most notorious sex scandal of the Victorian Era" They demanded all future adverts avoided the word 'sex"

[quote]Given the presumptive audience for Frozen, I wonder whether all this disability/tender-to-the-touch - drama is actually increasing interest in the show. Will she? Won't she? Take a side and buy a ticket for a ringside seat!

I've seen actors, famous and higly respected actors, literally shaking in the wings with fear and then go on anyway. The nerves can be overwhelming but most of the actors I have known (Broadway PSM here) have just muscled through it.

I don't know Patty Murin's situation but it must be somethign more than performance anxiety

[quote]I've seen actors, famous and higly respected actors, literally shaking in the wings with fear and then go on anyway.

Several people said that Vivien Leigh was that way in her stage performances.

[quote]Several people said that Vivien Leigh was that way in her stage performances.

Lots of actors, sometimes even in the middle of a long run, develop this anxiety. The old school thinking is you push through it. How else do you get over it?

Or you push through it with the help of alcohol

Honest question: How did Patti Murin land not one, but two very good looking, talented, and really nice husbands in the business, first Curtis Holbrook (although her marriage to him is not mentioned on her Wikipedia page) and then/now Colin Donnell? I don't usually ask gossipy questions like this, but since Patti is nothing exceptional in the looks department and also seems to have pretty serious emotional/mental issues, what can be the attraction? And why would handsome, talented straight guys in the theater, who are prized so greatly by women in the theater (for obvious reasons), pick Patti when they presumably have so many other options? Is she from a rich family, or something like that? Or is it just that she's really nice and sweet when between emotional upsets?

You left me out, r551. Shmuck.

[quote]Or you push through it with the help of alcohol —Maureen and Laurette

Laurette wasn't a drinker. She was ill. She did The Glass Menagerie through August 1946 and then died in December 1946. People thought during Glass Meneagerie that she was an alkie, but she was throwing up in buckets off stage because she had cancer.

R549-I've heard from actors who've worked with Nathan Lane say he's also a nervous wreck backstage before making an entrance.

[quote]And why would handsome, talented straight guys in the theater, who are prized so greatly by women in the theater (for obvious reasons), pick Patti when they presumably have so many other options?

Either she's a good beard or she takes it up the butt (no condom, no children option)

I thought alcohol was responsible for the decline in her career between Peg and Menagerie, r554.

[quote] The parallel mystery is why Betsy Wolfe was not cast and yet also dropped from Carousel

Well she dodged a bullet with Carousel.

[quote] I've seen actors, famous and higly respected actors, literally shaking in the wings with fear and then go on anyway.

I think Dorothy Loudon was the same.

I didn't pay that much attention to the Murin anxiety flap, but I think it's more than anxiety before a performance. I think as she described it, her anxiety keeps her from functioning generally--like leaving the house or paying her bills or whatever. I know that people who suffer from severe anxiety disorders go through this, but I don't understand why she--or Disney, for that matter--would take on a role if she suffers from a severe disability.

Mary did sell R&H and was vocal about regretting it.

Mary!

[quote]Mary did sell R&H and was vocal about regretting it.

Any reason why she did? She must have known that all her father's great work would be diminished with people's whack-a-doodle ideas.

How about we do The Sound of Music from the Nazi's point of view? Why didn't the von Trapps just acknowledge Rolf's authority?

Zero sympathy for Patti Murin. Her job is to perform. If she can't perform, she needs a new vocation. I wonder how she would feel if her driver said he couldn't drive her because of anxiety. Or if her publicist said they couldn't promote her work because they were feeling anxiety. Or if Seamless told her they couldn't deliver because they were feeling anxious.

I'm all for a more compassionate world, but this shit is absurd.

let it go

I still hope that Mary left behind some kind of document detailing why she despised Arthur Laurents and that it will come to light someday. Or maybe Sondheim can reveal why she hated Laurents.

Mary was working on a memoir with Jesse Green.

Will Patti start bringing an emotional support animal onstage with her to alleviate her anxiety?

Patti, Patti, Patti! Can we please go back to talking about Follies and Gypsy? Or even fucking Hazel, for that matter.

Didn't everyone hate Arthur Laurents, though? I doubt Mary had any special reason besides the fact that he was a bitter, venomous toad.

[quote]Mary was working on a memoir with Jesse Green.

But did Mary really have anything worth saying? She had one middling Broadway musical and then basically worked as a "jobber" composer. She never reached the brilliance of her father and she didn't seem to have an interesting life. Unless she was writing a "Daddy Dearest" book or a gossipy Scotty Bowers type book, what could she possible say?

Klea Blackhurst is so fat now, she could play Hazel, Mrs B and every other female in the cast all rolled into one.

The forward that Mary quote for her dad's "Musical Stages" reprint was quite lovely, actually.

[quote]Patti, Patti, Patti! Can we please go back to talking about Follies and Gypsy?

Dolls, you can talk about me in Gypsy all you want!

She had a strained relationship with her father and a truly awful one with her mother. I'm sure she had plenty of stories for Green. And whatever went wrong with Laurents must have been bad; they had been friends for a million years. Even Sondheim, who's loyal to a fault, finally broke with him completely, although he (or someone, maybe Laurents) said they were cordial in public.

Is there any chance of the Rodgers book emerging?

It's Patti LuPone who's box-office (at least in musicals), not this Patti Murin woman.

Whoever keeps putting down Klea Blackhurst must have lost some roles to her. Fuck off -- she's a nice person, and a really good performer.

So what the hell happened with Michelle Williams? She does 3 performances in Once On This Island, calls out for 2 weeks, then leaves 3 weeks before closing "because her doctor said so". Yeah, right. It's not even a hard role.

Both she and the show have wiped all mention of her joining the cast on their Instagrams.

Klea's no Rita McKenzie

Fosse/Verdon is obviously going into great detail on both their careers. A friend on the crew told me yesterday they shot a sequence where Gwen was cast, against director Joseph Hardy’s wishes, in a play called Children, Children which closed on opening night on Broadway.

[quote]So what the hell happened with Michelle Williams?

Give her a break. She's not been right since Heath Ledger died.

Klea approximates Ethel's energy and singing without imitating her. Rita just imitates her pretty much.

[quote]she's a nice person, and a really good performer.

In fact, she's got the heft of three or four really good performers!

"Children, Children" was one of the first Broadway dramas to have tv commercials advertising it. The play had problems and was cut down to apparently barely over an hour by opening night. But, yeah, it was a quick dud.

Fosse/Verdon really is digging deep if they're doing "Children Children." But Gwen was in her late 40s then, and 50 when she did Chicago. Michelle's actually a bit young for Gwen circa the mid-70s (and 80s, if it goes up to Fosse's death in 1986 or whenever it was);.

I guess they're showing "Children, Children" since it a straight play and can have some bits re-enacted. Not too likely Michelle Williams can replicate the Fosse choreography for something as stupendously wonderful like Gwen did here in "Redhead", an incredible mix of dancing , acting and showmanship -- one of the great Fosse numbers.

[quote]I know that people who suffer from severe anxiety disorders go through this, but I don't understand why she--or Disney, for that matter--would take on a role if she suffers from a severe disability.

Especially since, didn't Murin acknowledge, when she wrote about her anxiety during FROZEN, that this was not the first time it came up, and that it had happened to her during previous shows? Maybe she didn't tell Disney about all that....

[quote]I still hope that Mary left behind some kind of document detailing why she despised Arthur Laurents and that it will come to light someday. Or maybe Sondheim can reveal why she hated Laurents.

I suppose there could be a smoking gun, but isn't it possible that Mary just came to despise Laurents for the same reasons so many other people despised him?

[quote]In fact, she's got the heft of three or four really good performers!

Hey, you piece of shit at R582: Fat jokes are childish, stupid, and unacceptable even from anonymous sources. Sorry, especially from anonymous sources.

Williams has apparently trained hard to transform her body into a Fosse type body. And the hair/make up teams are working overtime to make her look like Verdon. My friend says she’s channeling Verdon in every respect. Of course she has a dance double, though.

I've heard from a composer that The Cher Show hasn't paid or gotten permission for all of the music in the show.

[quote]And Aunt Eller was trans (a man in drag).

Aunt Feller?

Is that Stephanie Block mainly singing in those "Cher Show" tv commercials? She's singing in higher keys than Cher ever did, and even though I love Cher, sounding better than Cher ever did.

Patti has made it clear that she suffers from mental illness. Not stage fright or exhaustion or nerves. She started describing her illness as anxiety after Kristin Bell came out as having serious anxiety but she was open about her bouts with depression before then.

1.) The general term for what she has been talking about all this time is CRAZY. Yes. She is crazy. The only people trying to claim that Patti Murin is not mentally ill are the recently banned BWW posters who have decided she is evil and faking it just to take control of their internet activity.

2.) Crazy people who are willing and able to treat their mental illness as a disability by working with mental health professionals (complying with therapy and medication) and their work and home environment literally have the right to continue to work and function to the best of their abilities if reasonable accommodation can be made for their condition. That is how disabilities are handled.

Patti is exploring the boundaries of working as a disabled person in theater by openly treating her mental illness as anxiety and treating her anxiety as a disability that can be accommodated just like a migraine. The key is reasonable accommodation.

Her OPENness about this is more interesting than her actual talent because there are a number of train wrecks out there as well as movie-star/pop stars who could function on Broadway if given the sort of accommodation Patti is being given. (Lady Ga-ga for example.) Using an invisible disability to show that accommodating disabilities is doable in theater may also open up opportunities for visibly disabled actors as well as unstable rock stars.

3.) Patti's meltdowns are in her head. That is why they are called anxiety attacks and not something else. She has chosen to make her public battle to be accommodated as a person with a disability a battle for respect for her mental illness. She is judging her ability to function according to her own perception and calling in sick rather than drinking to sooth her nerves and showing up drunk which is the traditional way of handling anxiety and mood disorders. She wants extra approval for this because it isn't easy to respect mental health limitations when everyone wants you to take short cuts and replace mental health issues with an addiction. She is annoying but not entirely wrong. Making the right choice for your health can be difficult when others pressure you to take stupid short cuts.

4.) Patti is being given a LOT more leeway by her employers than people usually give women with anxiety, PTSD, mood-swings, addictions, eating disorders etc because she has kept her shit together to a fair degree so far. (No public meltdowns, overdoses or drunken brawls.) Also her request for accommodation is the NORM over at Wicked where some standbys go on upward of 40 times a season. She actually IS being very professional about this.

5.) Taking drugs and alcohol out of the equation apparently enrages some people who struggle with mental health AND substance abuse issues because people can't get around the way society wants to shame them for using self medication to mask and control mood problems. Her chirpy attitude about 'taking a mental health day' triggers rage because she hasn't done the booze and drugs meltdown they recognize as 'real pain.' She is annoying, not tragic and she does not represent them. If she were a train-wreck who masked her issues with lies and pills that would make sense to them.

Those people are on reddit now.

[quote]Is that Stephanie Block mainly singing in those "Cher Show" tv commercials? She's singing in higher keys than Cher ever did, and even though I love Cher, sounding better than Cher ever did.

It's a fantasy show. Also in those commercials, Sonny never had a smoking body like that actor has. The actor shouldn't have been allowed to go shirtless.

R586

It isn't a fat joke if you are measuring in Chenoweths.

That's awesome that Fosse Verdon is digging for some deep cuts. Is there any chance there'll be a sequence utilizing Billy Joel's "Stiletto"? I always thought Fosse was paying tribute to it with "Bye Bye Love".

I mean Bye Bye Life.

I can't help but think some of the SJW themed revivals are methods of entry into the profession for less than talented individuals.

I am a huge believer in non-traditional casting because there are so many under used performers of color. But really, these SJW epics are just mediocre for the most part.

not talking about this OKLAHOMA, which I haven't seen but generally speaking these kind of productions are mediocre shrill bores

And no I am not 100, I am 31

R591 Is either Patti or someone she knows.

Plenty of people have mental health issues and they don't have the luxury of skipping work once a week. I don't care if she's out of Frozen- I'm not going to see it anyway and the show is probably better without her- but Broadway fans have discussed the attendance of leads for decades, and they're not going to suddenly stop because Patti is a snowflake refuses to stop googling herself to see all the mean things people say about it.

[quote] But really, these SJW epics are just mediocre for the most part.

I agree. I think for artists who can't create actual new and interesting works, redoing another person's work is a good avenue.

But it's also an access thing. There HAS to be new artists interested in developing the art form and creating new works, but unless they are extremely wealthy or famous in some other field, they're not getting a production at St. Ann's.

Tend to agree with r597, but I would reserve judgement because I don't know her situation. Having said that, If the FROZEN audience were coming just to see her in it, there would definitely not be so much understanding and accomodation from the producers.

FROZEN box office is in no way driven by who is in it, however tallented everyone in it is.

This OKLAHOMA actually did feature a (visibly) disabled person, Ali Stroker, as Ado Annie. She was luminous and charismatic; she nailed the showstopper "I Cain't Say No," and it was 100% believable that the boys couldn't stay away from her. I don't think a single person in the audience cared that she was in a wheelchair. I think that's the issue. Not that people with disabilities or illnesses shouldn't perform, just that they shouldn't take on roles that they're really not up to.

R592 someone who saw the show told me that during "I Got You Babe" it is Sonny who sings "I got you to understand" and "I got you to hold me tight." Why? In every recording, it is Cher who sings that counterpoint.