Why wasn't Whitney Houston ever really milked as a sex symbol?

She was marketed as a wholesome.

Say what?

In the 80s, we had black sexy female singers who everyone (including white people) liked, but Whitney was that All-American Girl who isn't allowed to be sexy.

I thought she was so beautiful and cute with the long wig or the bobbed hair with a big bow in the I Wanna Dance With Somebody video. Her figure was model-like —thin, lanky, not tits n’ ass.

She was also a teen model

Initially it was her talent that she was marketed on. I don't even remember people talking much about how she looked. It was always about what a great singer she was. I think the marketing thought she didn't need to do Madonna type stuff for attention.

Mariah Carey was also marketed as wholesome and was often covered up. After her divorce from Mottola in 1997, she started wearing more revealing/skimpy outfits.

Remember, not everyone was being like Madonna, who often got castigated for her efforts. The SEX book and EROTICA album almost ended her career. People thought she had crossed a line between pornography and art. For example, posing for Playboy was deemed okay, but doing actual porn was not. The Pamela Anderson/Tommy Lee sex tape was in '98 and she almost suffered backlash, too. It's not like today when having nude photos or jerk-off/sex tapes leaked won't break your career.

R5, she was attractive, but not sexy. She never came across as genuine or real, but was pretty definitely. We Need to get a straight guy’s input here I think.

Her raw talent and artistry outshone all else. Everyone agreed she was attractive. There was a lot of respect for her as a person from public. She was held in awe as almost divine and gifted than tawdry wanna be sex symbol. So, it says a lot about her self respect and how she shared her gifts. Until drugs ...etc.

R7, Mariah was not marketed as "wholesome". She was marketed as a singer. The anti-Milli Vanilli.

She, like Beyonce looks the part...sexy and seductive...but the minute they open their mouths, the illusion is shattered.

Because by the time Whitney had her breasts enlarged, most people had lost interest.

This outfit was everything. Can we ask this straight guy?

Whitney was very sexy/wholesome back in the 80s.

It was all about the wigs and the voice

Whitney was like Christy Turlington... beautiful but not sexy.

And she just may not have had a naturally sexy demeanor.

She had the kind of look that fraus think is sexy, but not straight guys. Not slutty enough.

R10 even Mariah herself has stated that she wasn't allowed to be sexy and had to dress conservatively. Compare and contrast her music videos/image before and after Mottola.

In the 80s Whitney was too eerily perfect to be sexy. Of course we now know that was a persona, not a reflection of who she really was, but it was also because she had an odd stiffness as a performer early on.

beautiful but sexless, true.

R18, I don't remember Mariah dressing as Mother Theresa at the '91 Grammys. She may not have appeared in panties and pasties, but she wasn't in Tammy Wynette's church frock.

R21 Mariah didn't meet Mottola until she was working on MUSIC BOX (Aug. '92-May '93). They married in June '93. He took control of her image and pretty much everything.

rewriting history, r22

R22 how am I rewriting history? They did not meet until MUSIC BOX. Mariah has said he took control of her image and forced her to dress more conservatively. It's evident in the music videos circa '93-'97.

Whitney was classically beautiful, but the voice made that redundant so her looks weren't needed to market her.

they met at an industry party when she was a backup singer for brenda k starr, mariah pressed her demo into his hot little hands and mottola personally guided her career to stardom.

What the hell are you talking about R22. Mottola signed her and was in charge from day 1.

"Carey likes to point out that three of the four songs on her demo ended up on her debut, but admits to frustration at the label's bringing in producers like Narada Michael Walden (who had hits with Whitney Houston and Taylor Dayne).

"It took away some of my identity," Carey says. "When I go back and listen to the demo, in some ways it's better than the album ended up being. Just in terms of the simplicity, it seemed to be more real and innocent and once we got big-name producers involved, it took on another quality. It did very well for me, so I'm not saying anything bad about it."

Mottola served as executive producer on "Mariah Carey" and gradually he and Carey began the courtship that led to Mottola's 1990 separation from his wife of 20 years (they divorced in 1991). Two years later he and Carey were married, and Mariah got her "guido.""

Whitney was a bisexual woman who strongly preferred women. Her image was being styled and promoted by Clive Davis, a man who claims he's bisexual, though he apparently definitely prefers men. When one takes this into consideration, it's understandable how Whiteny's image, while glamorous, did not really conform to the straight male's idea of 'sexiness'. Her beauty could not hide the fact that she had to real desire to appeal to men. On the other hand lesbians found Whitney sexy.

I am a straight woman and have always thought Whitney was stunning beautiful. I hated when she got those bolt on's. She didn't need them.

[quote]Her raw talent and artistry outshone all else.... She was held in awe as almost divine and gifted...

oh please

Beautiful and glamorous is different from sexy. Whitney was always marketed to an older audience.

i have no idea where r22 came up with that stuff.

It is true her talent outshone her beauty, which is extremely rare. The first thing people thought of when the heard her name is 'voice' rather than 'sexy'. But I loved her later wardrobe when she started to ditch the gowns.

Whitney was a pretty woman but never considered sexy. Madonna is sexy. Being the best vocalist of all time, she didn’t need to be sexy.

madonna= not sexy, sexual and very shrewd, ruthless.

Madonna = Dolly - solo songwriting abilities

Whitney was more than sex appeal. There was great talent, and a lot of hard work. One of the most touching obituaries I've ever read is from her former partner, Robyn Crawford, which was very simple and appreciative.

I don't think Cissy Houston would've approved of her Nippy being marketed as a sex symbol. Clive Davis made sure his star act was packaged as wholesome.

Elegant and sexy don't really do hand-in-hand. Whitney looked elegant.

1985 interview. Notice the descriptors used: posh, sophisticated, "we are ladies."

No discussion of dating or her personal life. None of her early interviews went there, even though she rose to fame on a "risque" song ("Saving All My Love For You"). She comes across like an elegant and polished machine.

[quote]Why wasn't Whitney Houston ever really milked

Her tits were too small. Couldn't even squeeze a half a pint out of them.

Mariah didn't meet Tommy in 1992. He signed her in 1989.

The label only claimed they started dating in 1992 to make Mariah not look like a homewrecker. I believe Mariah was hooking up with Tommy since they first met at that party in 1988.

R40, she was beautiful there. Too bad that old queen Clive Davis made her get at least one nosejob.

She may not have been marketed as a sex symbol, OP, but straight guys definitely saw her as wholesomely sexy. Of her contemporaries, Madonna, Appollonia and Vanity were marketed as sex symbols, and Houston, Janet Jackson and Paula Abdul were marketed as cute/little sister/girl next door types, and I'd include Susannah Hoffs of the Bangles in there, she wasn't hugely influential but dudes dug her.

The thing about straight guys is they divide women into 2 groups: girlfriend material or pump/dump material. You want your girl to be sexy, but also sweet and ladylike, someone you'd bring home or introduce to your friends. P/D types, it doesn't matter if they can carry on a conversation, they serve one purpose only.

Houston, Abdul, Hoffa, Jackson and Mariah Carey when she arrived on the scene, appealed to guys' fantasy of an ideal girlfriend. Despite. Madonna and pretty much anyone mentored by Prince were too overtly sexy and trashy. Pat Benatar and Sheena Easton (and Kate Bush in the UK) fell in between--too wild for some, Just right for others.

Their public images evolved over time--Appollonia and Vanity went born again, Abdul went from cute and quirky to kooky, Carey the good girl went bad after her divorce, Madonna and Jackson went the drag queen route--Madonna was really only appealing to straight men at the very beginning of her career, she was pretty much always a drag queen. And poor, poor Whitney--on the DL it's the closet that gets blamed, but most guys I knew blamed Bobby Brown for her decline. She was the good girl who married the bad boy and he took her down with him.

In retrospect, she was stunningly gorgeous - I have no idea why few (if OP is correct) thought so at the time...

Her music was not sexy

her tittys were often milked by her dyke lover

yea

Her milk probably tasted like crack

and like ciggys n whiskey and b browns nasty old cock

Why should she have been? Whitey was a huge star. There was no need to "milk" her for anything more than she already was.

I understand that young 80s Whitney dressed a little sexy in I Wanna Dance With Somebody.

But at her real HEIGHT of fame in the early 90s it was black pantsuits or turtlenecks or blazers and frauish wigs.

In the late 90s there was a slight effort at sleek sexiness but not much.

It definitely helped that she was so beautiful. Any press releases or magazine and television interviews almost always mentioned her looks. Of course her voice was flawless and all that, but her beauty helped her get over as well.

Just look at Stephanie Mills and the hard time she had achieving success despite having a spectacular voice.

her witch of a mother would have never allowed Nippy to look "sexy".

Whitney rose above it all. She didn't need sex to sell. Her voice reigned supreme.

R54 sure thing she couldn’t rise above drugs and died early. Just saying

Her My Love is Your Love era look was very lesbianish, with that butch haircut. I'm surprised Clive approved it, but I wonder if at that point he was just happy to get her in the studio and away from the drugs.

What a tragic story.

Whitney Houston was considered a sex symbol and men loved her. But, she always came off as cold and aloof interviews and wasn't known to have a great stage presence or a natural charisma. Maybe she couldn't offer a quality she just didn't have.

I think Whitney looks both beautiful and sexy in this photo

Sorry! This photo

Female pop stars shouldn't always have to pimp themselves out as sex objects. Whitney knew she didn't need to do that, so she didn't.

Whitney looked like the captain of the field hockey team before Clive Davis made her get a makeover. Dyke-o-rama!

She had a thing for gravy boats

[quote]Just look at Stephanie Mills and the hard time she had achieving success despite having a spectacular voice.

Stephanie Mills, God bless her, was uglier than a dog's ass. She was never going to be a big star.

R64, I take it you are an alum of the Perkins School for the Blind in MA, even though they are not known for promoting vulgarity. How else to explain your inability to recognize stellar cheekbones on par with Mills' vocal talent. Regardless of where you were educated, your comparison betrays your ignorance.

She was a nasty, miserable cunt.

LOL at the guy who thought Mariah met Tommy in 92. He probably thinks Jellybean Benitez produced Erotica.

OP's question was a good one. I think Clive Davis wanted WH to be a pop or crossover artist (rather than R&B), so was careful with her image. I totally agree that she was more beautiful before she got the breast implants, totally unnecessary. I think her favorite way of dressing was tomboyish. She did have stage presence and that's why I'm posting this "All the Man That I Need," below.

She was marketed as (Sould) Diva right from the start coming from a royal music dynasty (Dionne Warwick). A talented singer who could belt out a tune like no other.

Sorry, (Soul) Diva

Stephanie wasn’t that ugly. A bit plain but she glammed up with a new nose and stylist. And she had a good body. She was just so tiny. She was shorter than Judy Garland even.

R69, so wrongo. Go to R62. Look in her eyes. What do you see?

An eager, innocent wholesome All American kid.

Not marketed as a diva out of the gate. Remember her big Grammy night? American sweetheart in the span of the award ceremony. Which is why she was chosen to sing the anthem at a crucial point in America's history. She represented hope and the dyed in the wool American spirit. She delivered. Why her version is the nation's gold standard. Bar none.

Her downfall and death ruptured American dreams and common consciousness.

She couldn’t dance a step. Sexy is easier for stars who can dance.

It's not like she didn't try, but she was always marketed with her talent and as wholesome.

The real Whitney showed up when she opened her mouth in interviews.

Chaka Khan was 1000 times sexier than Whitney, who lacked curves, especially for a black woman

Whitney was model-beautiful, like she could be a real couture model. And that type is never really hot or sexy.

She achieved universal appeal with dance hit Your Love Is My Love. The finest club DJs sampled that track into deep progressive house remixes for the ages. Represented full global spectrum and spun it into iconic legend stratospheres. Fine actress to boot. Had it all.

Speaking of missed the mark Madge↙

Madonna's ROL takes the silver. Still, American. If anyone's counting. Would Celine be #3?

I dedicate this to Houston:

Born in all places- Newark. Guess we just can't have it all😅

Whitney sang don’t cry for me @ AIDS Benefit Concert 1994. I’m blown away by that VOICE 😲

John Houston was her manager and i suspect he tried to model his daughter in the best light using his experiences. Experiences that only included management of gospel groups.Cissy probably insisted on toning down the sexual stuff.Clive Davis just cared about the money

Oh don't be silly. EVERYONE wanted to be seen as sexy in the 80's. She just COULDN'T pull it off. Janet was too chunky in the 80's to be considered sexy or marketed as sexy. But they ALL wanted to be seen as sexy.

Whitney needed to be seen as safe to the flyover whites and it worked. Being sexy or sexual was a very risky move for a female in the 80's. You risked losing a lot of fans. Clive knew this.

Speaking of sexy/sexual, some of you speak about it as people used it to cover up talent. And many of you are very misogynistic in the way you speak of female singers who were sexy/sexual. Prince was THE most sexual person in the 80's. Was he covering up for lack of talent? No. It was just who he was. Ditto for Madonna. She was more popular when she was not being sexual. Yet, she wasn't interested in playing it safe and neither was Prince.

Skinny legs...

No. Janet's weight had nothing to do with it. Janet was the adorable child star/little sister. She was just too cute. Her attempt at playing badass sexpot went over like a lead balloon.

Janet was indeed marketed as sexy. The Pleasure Principle vid or some of that 90s stuff.

But by 1989, 1991, 1992 whitney had dropped all pretense of dressing sexy in videos. She was NOT a sex symbol in the MTV era which baffles me as she was so beautiful and had a great body by the standards of the time.

Oh stuff it you at R81!

-Whitney needed to be seen as safe to the flyover whites and it worked. Being sexy or sexual was a very risky move for a female in the 80's. You risked losing a lot of fans. Clive knew this."

Let me help you fill in that chip on your shoulder. Whitney just had to be herself. "Flyover whites" were over race by that time. People knew talent when they saw it. Whitney naturally reflected american values onto the general population. Don't try to rewrite and stain her personal legacy.

Did you try any of that OCD medication we discussed to tame your debilitating racial preoccupations, ya big lez?

OP because she comes from a PROMINENT Gospel singing family and that is a NO NO.

OP what does "frauish wigs" mean exactly? I'm not being nasty, I just want to know what that means.

r85 WHAT? They were over race at that time? Are you smoking Whitney crack? They aren't over it NOW.

Whitney was not sexy in the least. She did try. Look at some of the things she wore early on. She was too skinny and had no tits or ass. Not sexy.

She wasn’t as curvy as her good friend Janet

As seen in the recent documentary, Whitney did not like Janet and had no respect for her.

[quote]Janet was too chunky in the 80's to be considered sexy or marketed as sexy.

Nigga please

Nippy sounds slutty, even though I know it was her childhood nickname. I hear it and I think of erect dark nipples on Whitney’s tittays.

Being too skinny was not a problem for White America in the 60s/ 70s / 80s / 90s. That was the look.

Ass didn't become a thing until the aughts.

This is a frauish wig.

[quote]As seen in the recent documentary, Whitney did not like Janet and had no respect for her.

Are you daft? It was Cissy who threw shade at Janet in that document, not Whitney. Janet and Whitney were good friends. Whitney even sang Janet’s “Control” in concert once...

[quote][R85] WHAT? They were over race at that time? Are you smoking Whitney crack? They aren't over it NOW.

LOL! But I can see R85's confusion. By the '80s, it did seem that racism was a thing of the past. Cosby was the #1 for 5 seasons in a row. More blacks were getting roles and/or being nominated for Oscars/Emmys (and sometimes winning). But more importantly, there was zero tolerance in the media for racism or allusions to it. Remember Jimmy Snyder? There was no Internet/social media, so people like that didn't have a national/global audience. If they shouted from the rooftops or street corners, they were jeered. So they went underground. The Internet and then Obama's election really brought them out of the woodwork.

Good friends? Did Janet try to stop her "good friend" from going down a drug spiral? No. Neither did she intervene with her brother. Some "good friend or sister" that bitch is.

Janet’s badass/sex symbol act went over like a lead balloon? Wtf? Control made her the ONLY Jackson with edge and street cred. Her sex symbol status only multiplied with each new release.

R96 is a jealous LaToya.

Oh shit Janbot has invaded and inserted Janet into yet another thread. NO ONE cares about Janet anymore. You frantically posting about her and inserting her into every thread about a female singer is laughable.

Janet on her FRIEND Whitney

I don't think Janet became a sex symbol until "Love Will Never Do Without You" music video, and that was 1990. But the Janet album and her nude Rolling Stone cover 3 years later really cemented it. For the '90s, at least.

So are the “bots” of all the other women mentioned here all converging on this thread too, R99? No? GTFO with that bullshit.

Janbot go away. This is a WHITNEY thread you bitch.

Whitney did have a sexy figure

Surprised Whitney and Janet were so friendly, didn't Bobby Brown bang both....surprised that didn't start a war.Cissy did throw shade at Janet....surprised Cissy didn't reap the wrath of Katherine Jackson

[quote]NO ONE cares about Janet anymore

I guess that’s why she covered various magazines this year and has been awarded with Icon Award after Icon Award, right?

Whitney sangin’ with Janet’s brother

r105 Yet no one cares and it isn't even a blip on the radar of any social media, no buzz, flop album that sold shit. Yeah that's winning alright!

Uglier than a shit sandwich, r65. No way a face like that was going to get the star treatment. She was also munchkin-height.

R88 i suggest you brace and put your head between your knees. I'm gunning for ya. Someone hold my baby

[quote]it isn't even a blip on the radar of any social media, no buzz, flop album that sold shit. Yeah that's winning alright!

But enough about Madonna.

Janbot you make everyone fucking HATE Janet with your frantic postings like you've just shot a gallon of meth into your veins. This is about WHITNEY you bitch.

RHYTHMLESS Nation

FYI, Whitney was deep into drugs (with her brothers) before she became a star.

[R113]

I've heard the stories,it's hard to believe. Did the brothers get her on drugs to get her money.....iam devastated

SO dykey!

Whitney was not comfortable with publicly conveying her own sexuality and therefore could not offer sex appeal. She is a great example of an almost-flawless beauty who gave off no sexual heat. Also, she sometimes appeared styled like a much older woman -- the wigs, the blazers and the shoulder pads did not scream "sex!"

Why would Whitney have respect for Janet? Houston was born blessed and earned her position. Raw talent.

R93 just plotz in public 😅

Everyone was acting sexual in the 80's and it wasn't covering for lack of talent. It was due to MTV. Men were some of the worst offenders especially lead singers of various bands. Some did it just to fit in, other did it because they were very sexual people. The ones who were authentically sexual lasted. Performing, dancing, singing, is very often sexual going back to Elvis' hip thrusts.

She did get small breast implants after giving birth to Bobbi Kris, though. Showed ‘em off nicely in the It’s Not Right But It’s OK video.

[quote]Let me help you fill in that chip on your shoulder. Whitney just had to be herself. "Flyover whites" were over race by that time. People knew talent when they saw it. Whitney naturally reflected american values onto the general population. Don't try to rewrite and stain her personal legacy.

BOTH of the recent Whitney documentaries went into detail about how Whitney was marketed by Clive Davis and Arista to appeal to a white audience. They really played it safe with her. The last thing Arista wanted was Whitney to have an overtly sexual image or be seen as a soul/R&B singer because they knew they had a golden opportunity for an artist who could be a massive crossover star with white America and they were extremely careful to make her palatable to that audience.

Of course, it was all an act and the real Whitney came out eventually.

Two words: Grace Jones

Feral sexuality. Surpasses Bowie even

[quote]Why would Whitney have respect for Janet?

Because not only was she good friends with Janet’s family, but because Janet was a fellow black female artist making major waves in pop music around the same time and not some bitter queen on an Internet forum. Janet, Whitney and Anita Baker were all noted in ‘86 for their sweeping contributions in music.

Looking back on it now, it's amazing Grace Jones got as famous as she did. It's rare that a personality as utterly original and fabulous as Jones gets so big.

SWEEPING contributions to music. Janbot fucking STOP with your bullshit. This about WHITNEY and of course ALL you post is something Manet related. You are really turning every OFF her.

R95! They're mostly dead now.

Who could forget Don Imus getting the boot for.......wait

NAPPY HEADED HOS

I refer to myself as such when I let my hair dry naturally from that day on.

Never forget

Career ending

I still remember watching Whitney host Friday Night Videos (I think with Paul Schaffer) and being surprised how ghetto she sounded. This was at the beginning of her career when her image was carefully crafted to be classy and wholesome.

Bobby was sleeping with Janet behind Whitney's back

[quote] She was held in awe as almost divine and gifted...

[italic]Mary![/italic]

It's really not Amazing Grace Jones reached iconic status when you look back through a clear lense. People know talent when they see it. Race doesn't factor in ESPECIALLY in the field of entertainment. Didn't impede talent for almost a century now.

Yes R95 and when they came out of the woodwork they were shunned and shamed by the white majority who voted Obama and Michelle in...twice. Family members distanced themselves from any backass rube who dared display vulgar behavior. I lived it. I was there.

r129 Andy Warhol himself was surprised at Grace's fame because he thought she was too extreme for a mass audience.

So what if she sounded ghetto. She wasn't a pretentious ass. She exuded an authentic warmth. R126

Whitney was straight hood.

She had brown gums.

R131 and then Trump's success and blunt racism without consequence have emboldened them even more. And that's where we are now. Socially, it's like America pre-1960s.

I always found Whitney Houston incredibly sexy, so I don't really know what you're talking about, OP.

Gum discoloration due to indigenous ancestry. Except in white white people it comes up as a black and blue bruise on pink gums. Darker haired white people, it's fucking grey!

Like another poster said, at the time Whitney Houston seemed almost divine. It's not an exaggeration.

To be very honest, I never thought Madonna was sexy. I always found her disgusting and cheap. Talking about the image, have no idea what she's like as a person.

I have great admiration for Whitney Houston as an artist and a vocalist, but listening to her songs depresses me to no end.

No it is not R135! It appears that way to those gullible to media predators.

There's a wicked cop problem! Not a citizen problem. Don't confuse the two. Don't let LE psychopaths color😅 your judgement.

I never found her attractive or appealing artistically.

I don't blame her, though. I put her in the same categorically I put Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, Joni Mitchell, Mariah Carey, Aretha Franklin, and some others in.

TPTB marketed them as 'THE NEXT GREAT ARTIST OF ALL TIME DO NOT QUESTION THIS" and I have never liked being told whom to worship as the Greatest fill in the blank of all.

Yes, she was talented. But no, I didn't find her attractive. Among her peers in the most narrow sense, I found Gladys Knight, Marilyn McCoo, Chaka Khan, Jody Watley, and Nona Hendryx attractive.

r134 and in r74 she had brown something else. I thought she was attractive but not gorgeous by any means

Whitney was beautiful and the best vocalist of al time. She was never considered sexy or gorgeous.

Olivia Newton-John was not marketed as a sex symbol despite being beautiful.

[quote] Everyone was acting sexual in the 80's and it wasn't covering for lack of talent. It was due to MTV.

The record producers and managers decided that for their acts. Sex sells. These comerical music performers (except Madonna in later years) didn't came up with their looks themselves.

Well, Whitney went straight thug when she married Bobby Brown, so there's that. . .

She loved gravy boats.

Whitney ugly......you all are off your rockers

Houston signed to Wilhelmina in NY at age 16

Thats a worldwide agency,they definitely don't sign ugly......

r149 is right! She was gorgeous!

[quote] Well, Whitney went straight thug when she married Bobby Brown, so there's that. . .

Further proof that her original, wholesome image was created for her and very likely not her own creative decision.

She did give us this wonderful, heartwarming interview

Can't find comment on Jackson's Legend street cred. To that poster:

We have these things. They're called EYES

[quote] Well, Whitney went straight thug when she married Bobby Brown, so there's that. . .

That was like when Tom Cruise fired Pat Kingsley and his public image and reputation went into total freefall.

A serious change of the public image that ruined their careers.

[R151]

But what a creation,i loved how she evolved....from teen model,to songstress to mother

What a masterpiece

R142 what is this? Huh? Self segregation?

I have always liked Whitney. I think she had the best voice and song interpretation skill in the business. She, however, didn’t have the ability to write her own music unfortunately

But you have to admit that no matter how credible her career was early on she's mostly remembered now for "BOOOOBAY!" and her hot mess of a TV reality TV show and memes like "Show me the receipts! / Crack is whack!". Way to take a dump on your own legacy by becoming a crack head late in life.

Its really interesting that they cheered Madonna's hoe image

But demanded much more of Whitney.

Maybe it was because Whitney actually had talent. Yes,i said it.. ......Madge was a fad

What are you talking about, r158!

Why do people o.d. in the 27 club, 158? Why are some human beings so suspecptible to self destruction?

It does not and will not negate her gifts, talent and award breaking track record. History will be kind to our Whitney.

R159 is warping wrongo, child

L

E

S

B

I

....

[quote] She, however, didn’t have the ability to write her own music unfortunately

She was too stupid to realize that the real money is / was in songwriting credits. Her "friend" -Clíve Davis knew that, but didn't advise her to write her own songs. The only way Whitney was able to earn any money was to drag her old, drug addicted body to concert halls and badly perform her songs with a ruined voice (ruined by all the crack). Because she didn't receive any real royalties from her big hits.

R142 what an idiotic post. Please don’t put Mariah name in the same sentence as Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, Aretha Franklin. Retard

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R166 cheap hooker 😂😂😂😂😂

[R166]

You're illiterate. And you misplaced "Retard" in your signature block.

[R165/166]

The post in 168 should be directed at 165, not 166.

Did Whitney have a touch of autism?

How come she couldn't dance?

What kind of black insanely talented musician can't dance?

Donna Summer couldn't dance either.

Did anyone mention the gravy boat?

r28 in the 80's in New York those of us in the LGB knew Whitney Houston was gay. Lesbian friends of mine would tell me whenever they saw Whitney and Robin at the clubs, usually SheScape. Before Bobby Brown there is no evidence of Whitney dating any guys. I guess she was bi enough to marry BB but that wasn't her preference.

It's amazing how the "Whitney is a lesbian" meme spread far and wide in those pre-internet days. Even in my small New England town, we all knew the rumors in my school.

Thing is Whitney doesn't seem approachable, she's no girl next door she's also not easy. She comes across as untouchable. If you are going to step to her you better have some big balls. That kind of woman scares most straight guys so that isn't sexy to them. Whitney was sexy because she was beautiful and amazingly talented.

[quote]Which is why she was chosen to sing the anthem at a crucial point in America's history. She represented hope and the dyed in the wool American spirit. She delivered. Why her version is the nation's gold standard. Bar none. Her downfall and death ruptured American dreams and common consciousness.

Let me guess: you got stood up on a date tonight.

[quote]What kind of black insanely talented musician can't dance?

Yes, don’t all the negros inherently have rhythm?

Whitney spent her youth as a model - she wasnt in to all that by nature. She once said she enjoyed fashion (because she was every designers dream) but she was really low key tomboy, braids, jeans, sneakers. She was simply a gorgeous woman however she dressed & had ample charisma and genuine warmth to charm people wherever she went. In a relationship with Crawford early on it would have invited a ton of unwanted overtures and hassles.

R177 well, they boast that they all do. I've seen too many comments on YouTube from blacks saying things like "White people can't dance for shit!"

They’re not wrong r179. But that doesn’t equate to “all negros have rhythm.”

R180 yes, it does, because that's their roundabout way of saying they all can dance.

The extreme religiosity of Huston's mother basically ruined Whitney's life and her career.

[quote]I believe Mariah was hooking up with Tommy since they first met at that party in 1988.

In his memoir, Mottola said their meeting at the party was very brief, and that nothing really happened between them until Mariah was nearly finished with her first album. It really seems like a classic mid-life crisis on his part and he admits freely that it was fucking stupid and it hurt his children. I sort of believe him - I think she was much more calculating in that relationship than she has been depicted as being. One thing that comes through in his book, though, is that despite the fact that he has long since remarried and had another family, he's still obsessed with Mariah.

No one cares about Mariah. She is long over.

Whitney was talented but only in the voice area. Writing, dancing, performing, she was not exceptional or talented.

I think Whitney saw her only true threat as Madonna because she could write and dance and sing well enough. Yet she respected her and they respected each other.

Whitney had a voice no one could touch but her music was not anything to remember.

It is really a shame that everything Huston recorded is so forgettable.

R126; I remember that too. I didn’t see that..I recall, granted a million years ago, She was extremely soft-spoken and composed. played very shy humble god loving LADY.

In the early Ebony interview, bit suspect that she humble brags outrageously comes from very sophisticated family, all ladies, class, etc. in interviews she seemed to be playing a role, which varied. Did not get the sense that she could be unguarded or authentic.

She was always sweating like a damn pig, hardly an exquisite look.

It's because she was a lesbian.

Alicia Keys-another Clive protege and supposed lesbian-is also beautiful but is completely sexless/isn't seen as sexy.

Anyone who couldn't be marketed or pull off sexy was marketed as "talented" and "above it" when we all knew it was just nobody wanted to fuck you. All performers, singers and actors, want the "fuckability" label. If they say they don't they are lying. Even Olivia Newton-John went dirty with Physical. Why do you think Sandy wore those black tights at the end of Grease? They wanted her to be viewed as FUCKABLE.

Being talented and being fuckable are not mutually exclusive.

[quote]Before Bobby Brown there is no evidence of Whitney dating any guys

As stated upthread, she was supposedly banging Jermaine Jackson in the mid ‘80s when they dueted on a couple of songs.

[quote]I think Whitney saw her only true threat as Madonna because she could write and dance and sing well enough. Yet she respected her and they respected each other.

Lol, no boo. A), Madonna can’t dance either. And B), there was an interview Whitney gave back when Madonna had a #1 with Take A Bow where the interviewer mentioned it to Whitney, who had an attitude like “Big deal. I’ve been making hits with Babyface for years.” And then there’s that Madonna interview where she basically admitted that she feared Whitney’s talent.

Whitney liked and respected Janet, not Madonna.

People always bag on Whitney’s dancing, but next to Mariah’s god awful dancing, Whitney is like Janet or Paula Abdul. At least Whitney has rhythm, something Mariah completely lacks.

[quote]It is really a shame that everything Huston recorded is so forgettable.

Yeah, so forgettable you still hear songs she recorded over 30 years ago all the damn time.

R65 She sho’ is ugleeeeeeeeee! Ha HAAAA!!!!!!

houstons music, forgettable?

i will always love you forgettable? i will always love you is a dolly parton song whitney houston made her own.

i heard whitney houstons music so often growing up, i cant listen to it now.

Stephanie Mills was rockin' a lot of Norma Kamali back in the mid 80s and looked very fit and sexy.

Steph had some good work done (braces, nose job) to transform into the way she looked in the ‘80s.

Miss Stephanie worked out like a fiend back then. She really made the most with what she had.

miss mills was too ethic to be mainstream.

JanBot always come through with the lies. Whitney absolutely respected Madonna and made it clear whenever she was asked about her. She flat out refused to say anything negative about Madonna, including her sexed-up image, making clear there is a difference between a performer's costume and the real person (and Whitney of all people would understand that). In the interview re Babyface, she doesn't diss Madonna at all--she's annoyed at the very dumb question. Why would Whitney care at all about working with Babyface after Madonna had a huge hit with him, especially considering she's repeatedly made clear she considers Madonna in that rarefied air of performers that included herself, Prince, and Michael Jackson?

R173, not true. Whitney was tabloid-linked to Jermaine Jackson, Eddie Murphy, Arsenio Hall and some athletes. She talked about some of the rumors in a 1991 interview and suggested she and Murphy had been dating. He denied it after her death.

It's a sad read, for a number of reasons.

r202 that was all just PR horseshit that publicists put out there. BTW Arsenio Hall is gay AF.

In the Whitney documentary from last year, people in the music business who were interviewed said that the public was starting to wonder why someone as beautiful and successful as Whitney never seemed to be dating or even seen with any men in the late 80s. One of the executives from Arista said that when he went to parties and such people would ask him directly if Whitney was gay.

Whitney didn’t really have a sexy body. Gorgeous face, though. Her “I’m Every Woman” is her best, imo. When she sang that hit with CC Wynans, she was slightly out sung.

I loved the with from "I Wanna Dance With Somebody." SO 80s!

The WIG.

Goddamn Autocorrect!

Whitney had a pretty face but why did she keep wearing wigs? Is it a black thing?

Sorry stupid Madbot @R201, but Whitney really didn’t give two shits about Madonna. Rarefied air? Lmao! Girl, please.

It was all PR stunts. Working with a Jackson required an obligatory “they are on the DL!” Murphy was busy exploring his very reasonable affection for Transgender Women. Aint nothing wrong with that.

Also watch Brad J talk about how Robyn went on thier dates, and “she was respectful” and not inthe way. DUDE Whitney brought her OUT LESBIAN LOVER - how many straight girls in their 20’s do that?? Love Letters between Whitney & Robyn were cited by Macdonald - how much further proof do you need??

Also yes, her mothers hyper strict Christianity hurt her enormously - but in the smallest of ways made it clear that Whitney had and was more than a stunningly beautiful woman. That small part was excellent, the sexual oppression that spread to Gary, Michael, John is horrific. Ultimately it did destroy her self confidence - she lived a life burdened with shame about things gay, a SUPER shitty compromised husband, the sole engine of a massive machine supporting her family and his useless users.

All her magnificent singular in the world talent, her magnificent beauty, her profound intelligence, astounding good works should have been hers to celebrate and enjoy. All she needed was a decent shrink 2x a week, great divorce atty and ROBYN & Krissi in her life.

I've always liked this Whitney (and Jermaine) song the most

Whitney did know that Bobby and Janet hooked up behind her back but she didn’t care. She knew deep down that she’s nobody compared to queen Janet

Bobby supposedly banged Janet during the time between her Control and Rhythm Nation projects (1987-88), which I believe was before he hooked up with Whitney.

I didn’t know we had a Millsbot now

She didn't really have the body to go that route...and her natural personality was more straightforward than flirtatious, anyway.

Bottom line, Whitney had a far greater gift than: Mills, Janet or Madonna.

Her songs have remained in steady rotation for nearly 40years (great and not so great tunes) and it was her voice and Her interpretation that made her genius. It is the constant drum of wannabes that aim to be able to “sing like Whitney” That demonstrate her singular talent. Aint nobody trying to “sing like Janet” “sing like Madge” or “sing like Stephanie Mills.” So just hang that bs up.

It’s Whitney that will outlast them all.

Whitney will not outlast them all. She already didn't. And she is really only known for just a few songs. Just because fraus oversing her shit doesn't make her anymore legendary. When she passed, her death did not get the traction MJ's or Prince's did. Janet not Stephanie are not in her league as far as being a star.

Whitney outlasts then all? That’s a stupid statement, obviously from a fanatic. Didn’t she die already?

Firstly, no one denies that she can sing her ass off. That was all she could do. She was a puppy who did what Clive told her to do. Secondly, She couldn’t write her own music. She cannot dance but why she needed to since her songs are either ballads or gospel songs. Finally, didn’t she die because of drugs? Which told me that she was much less disciplined than other divas and was not as smart.

She has sold less albums than Madonna Celine and Mariah but more than Janet. Her tours were never a big draw like Madonna or Celine but still better than Mariah or Janet’s. Her peak was during the bodyguard era and that was it. She was not even sexy, sorry to disappoint you.

She was good but not great. Wasn’t talented enough

She had no tits and clearly liked tuna.

In spring water, or mineral oil?

Sprinkled with crack, Rose.

She was black.

Notice all the anti-Madonna threads started lately? I blocked just to see how many posts disappeared here. Lo and behold, a ton, even 3 or 4 in a row disappeared. Janbot? Or Whitbot?

Lots of great singers didn't write their own music.

224 BLOCKED. One of the trolls. Fuck off, Rose. You're beyond tiresome. So glad I can't read the nonsense you spew.

WTF r225? Great singers don't always write their own music. So what?

226 BLOCKED. So nice not to read BS.

R218, the biggest reason Whitney sold less than the other big divas is that she released a lot less material than they did. She didn't really bother striking while the iron was hot. To be fair, the only time she really outsold Madonna was during the Bodyguard era.

So I guess Frank Sinatra, Judy Garland and Ella Fitzgerald were not great singers then, r225/7?

She released like 4 albums in 4-5 years. She was releasing them more than Madonna was.

Just read the OP. I'm an Anglo Irish white woman from the UK a few years younger than WH, and I remember thinking she was just stunning back in her early days, and frankly being envious of how gorgeous she was. I have a good friend from Croatia who says the same thing.

She could have been as much as a sex symbol/icon as Madonna. I have to conclude that It was (mostly) American racism that stopped that from happening, which as we can see daily, is still apparently alive and kicking.

[quote]She released like 4 albums in 4-5 years. She was releasing them more than Madonna was.

She went eight years without releasing a studio album. She only had two songs on Waiting to Exhale and The Preacher's Wife was a gospel album. Crazy to think that with the insane heights she reached with the Bodyguard soundtrack, she didn't do a studio album follow-up.

r231 She could never be a sex symbol because she wasn't sexy and was repressing her own sexuality. You can't project sexy unless you know who you are sexually and are comfortable with it. See Tom Cruise. The other thing that hurt her is she doesn't have a lot of truly classic hits. She just doesn't. She was lucky with the Bodyguard or her career would have really looked bad in comparison to her contemporaries. Then drugs took over which is her fault 100%. She didn't have the discipline to make it further.

Maybe she wasn't interested in that.

They all wanted sex appeal. All of them. Whitney tried. She dressed in super tight dresses, mid-drifts, showed skin but she doesn't and couldn't project sex appeal.

I wonder why her label didn't push her to record a follow up after the bodyguard? Was it even on her own label?

I would say Whiteny has plenty of classic hits: How Will I know, I wanna dance with somebody, the greatest love of all, all the BG hits, just off the top of my head.

Saying she couldn't be a sex symbol because of racism is silly when Janet was able to do so in the same time period. Tina to a lesser extent was as well I remember people talking about her legs all the time.

The thing is, I never remember thinking Whitney was beautiful. Of course she WAS, but it didn't stand out to me at the time.

Not to stir up the troll, but Janet was never a sex symbol. At the height of her fame, she was Michael's chubby sister.

Sade is beautiful and talented. Whitney is not. Sade writes her own music

So now we have a "writes their own music" troll?

Sade is beautiful, sexy, talented and classy who can write her own music and not trashy like Whitney or Mariah

Go start a Sade thread, this is about Whitney.

R230, but in between Madonna's studio albums, she released plenty of compilations and soundtracks and Mariah was releasing an album like every other year. Whitney only released two albums in the 80s and she only released four in the 90s (I'm your baby tonight, Bodyguard Soundtrack, The Preacher's Wife soundtrack, My Love is your love), only two of which were studio albums. Madonna released 6 albums in the 80s (including soundtracks and compilations) and 6 in the 90s. 6 vs. 12. That's a huge difference. Madonna made sure to strike while the iron was hot while Whitney didn't. This worked to Whitney's favor somewhat in the early 90s when Madonna was much more overexposed to the public.

Nobody was fucking hungrier than Madonna was back then. She made sure she got her music on soundtrack albums in between her studio albums. She had new music released every year, or thereabouts.

[quote]Ain’t nobody trying to sing like Stephanie Mills

You CAN’T be black.

I love Whitney just as much as the next guy, and will forever be in awe of her amazing voice, but not even she could do with “Home” from The Wiz what Stephanie did with it. That shit was HERS. Poor Diana Ross tried, but came up short.

Whitney released an album in 85, 86 and 87 plus I think 89 or early 90. Madonna was 83, 84, 86 and 89. Yes she released a few compilations but she had the huge number of hits to do it.

Whoever this Sade troll is is just here to stir up trouble. Nobody cares about Sade.

Without the BG I am afraid Whitney's career would have flamed out much more quickly.

"Whitney released an album in 85, 86 and 87 plus I think 89 or early 90."

LOL, no she didn't You're confusing albums with singles.

[quote]She has sold less albums than Madonna Celine and Mariah but more than Janet. Her tours were never a big draw like Madonna or Celine but still better than Mariah or Janet’s.

Are you insane? Better than Janet’s? Girl, get a clue. Janet Jackson’s tours are award-winning, trend-setting and legendary, and are still being ripped off by today’s pop divas from their staging to their choreography. And to put her in the same category as fucking Mariah, who has all the stage presence of a throw pillow and whose stage shows are shit, is absolutely ludicrous.

The Velvet Rope Live much?

The Rhythm Nation World Tour much?

The janet. World Tour much?

All For You Live?

Have you been living under a rock for the last 28 years?

r247 You're right. Man, it seems like she took a break b/w singles from WH then. Did she?

Thanks for that, r245. I’d forgotten how much I liked that song, and she sang the piss out of it...

[quote]Janet was never a sex symbol. At the height of her fame, she was Michael's chubby sister.

Another idiot. What in the hell are you people smoking? Janet Jackson was the preeminent black female sex symbol of the ‘90s. With her 1993 Rolling Stone cover alone, she ushered in an era of sex symbol-dom for black female artists that started with her “Love Will Never Do...” video and had everyone from Salt N Pepa to TLC copying her. And as for Michael, he was calling HER around that time asking for a collaboration, not the other way around. Tha fuck?

I don't really like over-singers. It doesn't impress me unless it's gospel or something. It is repellent. It doesn't make me think they are more talented because they can scream louder or bend notes. It ruins melody and it's not what I look for while enjoying a song. I don't think Whitney ever did that too much which I appreciated.

r251 Those very tits killed her career just 10 years later.

^No dear, Les Moonves attempted to kill her career. And now look—-Leslie spent the last year disgraced and out on his ass while Janet has been collecting award after award, touring and putting out #1 albums.

I'm ignoring Janbot. It is unhinged and, because of the frantic responses, knows what it says is BS. Blocking is the next option.

JanBot, nobody cares. In the 80s and 90s, Whitney's lowest selling album still sold more than Janet's highest. Janet's name does not belong in this thread.

R249, she released more songs from her first album than any other, 6 if you count "Hold Me" which was technically released as a Teddy Pendergrass song. And she could have released more, since the last 3 all went to #1 and the album still had huge momentum. The label stopped for her to focus on her follow up album.

Had she released "All At Once" as an official single I think it would have gone to #1 also. "Someone For Me" and "Nobody Loves Me Like You Do" (the other duet with Jermaine) would also have been huge hits.

If we're only going to do the 80s and 90s Madonna released studio albums in 83, 84, 86, 89, 92, 94. and 98 Her soundtrack work was 85 (Into the Groove single) 87 (Who's That Girl album and two singles) 88 (Santa Baby) 90 (I'm Breathless which had Vogue, the biggest hit of her career) 91 (This Used To Be My Playground) 93 (I'll Remember), 96 (Evita) 99 (Beautiful Stranger). Her greatest hits The Immaculate Collection was released in 90. In a 16-year period she had an album or a single released every single year. Like I said above, nobody was hungrier than Madonna was back then.

Whitney had studio albums in 85, 87, 90 and 98. Her soundtrack work was four songs on the Bodyguard in 92, two songs on Waiting To Exhale in 95 and one song on The Preacher's Wife in 96. It really is odd that Clive Davis didn't make Whitney get her ass into the studio to record an album immediately after the massive hit of the Bodyguard, which could've been released in 94.

[quote]I'm ignoring Janbot. It is unhinged and, because of the frantic responses, knows what it says is BS. Blocking is the next option.

Lol, go on, girl. Nothing I said is fabricated.

When you have all that talent, you don't need to use the sex angle.

r256 I never knew that though I was very young in the late 80's. But she did take a break from releasing singles from WH in late 85/early 86 right? Do you think they did that knowing Madonna was releasing True Blue in early 86? Madonna cannibalized her sales by releasing so many albums. Had she put Crazy For You and Into The Groove on LAV, it would have been even bigger. Her releasing her Greatest Hits album in 90 just cannibalized so much of her sales.

R257, that's because she toured like crazy for The Bodyguard. And she just had a baby.

After that she focused on films and released huge soundtracks for Waiting to Exhale and The Preacher's Wife. Clive had nothing to complain about.

r259 No one said you HAD to. But many many very talented people used the sex angle for various reasons not least of which it is rock n roll or performing which is sexual. Talent or not. Everyone wanted to be seen as sexy.

The Preacher's Wife was not a commercial album.

[quote]Janet's name does not belong in this thread.

Let’s see, some of Janet’s stats are:

biggest selling album of 1990

biggest debut world tour in history

Currently one of only three artists (and the ONLY black artist) to have a #1 album in each of the last four decades

the only artist to have 7 top 5 hits from one album

the first female to debut a single in the Hot 100 top 10

the only artist to be nominated for Grammys in the diverse categories of Rock, Pop, R&B, Dance and Rap

The first female to have a #1 album in the SoundScan era

The first female with five consecutive #1 albums

Her name bsolutely belongs in this thread

Crazy For You and Into the Groove weren't recorded until after the Like A Virgin album was completed.

R260, I don't think Madonna had anything to do with how Whitney's singles were managed. And vice-versa.

But yes, Madonna was in the exact same position. She had 5 huge singles from True Blue and could have kept going ("Where's The Party" or "Jimmy Jimmy" would have been big), but moved on to Who's That Girl. She did the same thing with Like A Prayer--moved on to I'm Breathless.

R263, it's the best selling gospel album of all time and I think got an Oscar nom. Clive of all people understands the value of having those kind of distinctions on his label.

Clive should have milked Whitney and had her sing about her fudge machine.

Odd that Clive okayed a gospel album when Whitney was still red-hot and didn't demand she do a mainstream pop album. It would've been like Madonna doing an opera allbum at her peak.

Well Madonna did Evita, which was similarly risky. But to their respective fans, Whitney doing gospel and Madonna getting the Evita role made perfect sense.

Plus Whitney had so much clout at that point she could do whatever the fuck she wanted. But Clive is no dummy and I'm sure he only OKed her going so long without making a studio album with some guarantees that she'd contribute heavily to soundtracks for both films and promote them as if they were studio albums.

Mills to ethnic to go mainstream

Stephanie Mills heyday was in the days when music was separated by classification. R&B .....Rock&Roll

R&B was dominated by mostly african americans. Until caucasians adapted their technique and stole that style.Mills most certainly was not Rock&Roll....that loud screaming devil drumplaying caucasians called music.So of course that main stream wouldn't accommodate her talent.If you weren't born before 1985,you might know this.

Yeah, Whitney should have done an album right after the BG. And Madonna didn't tour in order to do Evita. I like both and both seemed content during this time.

Supposedly the Bodyguard tour was really tough for Whitney and nearly broke her, especially after just having a baby. Focusing on films might have been her version of taking a break.

Can't help but wonder if she would have been better off just doing another studio album after Bodyguard instead of touring. Filming a few videos and a handful of well placed live performances to promote a new album would have been a much easier schedule, letting her focus on her new baby and presumably less need for coke and who knows what else to keep up her stamina. But touring brought her more money than anything else, so who knows what the impact of not touring then would have been.

Caucasians were playing R&B from the beginning. When blacks sing opera, are they "stealing" it?

I can't imagine she would have been well if she was heavily doing drugs while touring. I bet it was very difficult on her. Do we know if she completely stopped drugs while pregnant?

[R274]

Not on a widespread basis,hence the separate categories.How would african americans "steal" Opera ?Or are you just being ignorant?

Whites mostly played Rock&Roll and Country

Then branched out to Light Rock

Oh hooray! Another thread on a female singer turns into a Vadgebot/Janbot pissing contest!

Just what everyone wanted!

Not.

Except it isn't, R277. JanBot lies, spews nonsense, and is corrected. No one is similarly spamming this thread with hyperbole and irrelevant lists about Madonna.

No dear. Not one thing I’ve said about Janet was a fallacy. Sorry to inform you.

And someone upthread saying that Madonna can dance is about as hyperbolic as you can get.

No, the only person spamming this thread is janbot. I don't see post after post talking exclusively about Madonna and linking articles about her. Janbot is doing its usual shit and it is getting old. It brings in Madonna to get the heat off Miss Thang but it doesn't work.

What you saw were truths stated in dispute of the stupidity spouted about Janet Jackson. Take it however the way you want to take it.

As a lesbian, I don't think WH was really interessted in investing in a traditional "fuck gurl" pinup image.

She just wanted that whole sexual aspect of her life buried...and concentrated the performance side (when able to do so.)

I wish Whitney had recorded more. For a major artist, her output wasn't that extensive. I also wish she would've done standards and American Songbook-type stuff, but of course that's not what people who are at the peak of their careers do. Artists usually do that stuff later on.

What does Janet Jackson or Madonna have to do with why Whitney Houston wasn't really milked as a sex symbol???

Or, am I'm misreading the title of this thread?

Janbot starting frantically posting about Janet because you know Janet and Whits were besties. Janbot was frantically posting inane chart "achievements" of Manet. When others got annoyed, Janbot brought up Madonna. Why? Who knows. But it is always as a distraction because Janbot wants others to attack Madonna instead of Janbot. No one was posting articles about Madonna stats or anything. No one was going on and on about Madonna.

[quote]I also wish she would've done standards and American Songbook-type stuff

Me too. Saving All My Love was her best IMO and she should have done more torchy stuff. She had a beautiful voice that was mostly wasted on inferior tripe.

Yeah, she didn't need to do standards, it would have been enough for her to embrace a jazzier, more sultry sound.

One of the few songs of hers I genuinely liked was "My Love Is Your Love." It felt like a direct descendant of "You Give Good Love" and "Saving All My Love For You." I wish she had stayed in that direction. Even her look in the video was a good fit for her--still glamorous but very Afro-chic.

I was in high school at the height of her popularity; from what I noticed, the guys at my school thought she was beautiful but either despised her music to the point that they didn't even want to talk about her, or considered her too pure and sweet to lust after--directing their attentions instead to the likes of Madonna, Vanity and Samantha Fox (lucky them). The girls tended to like her, finding her talented, sweet and relatable.

hi, Meg. I never liked that bitch.

At least Whitney never bankrupted state fairs like Janet.

[quote]Janbot starting frantically posting about Janet because you know Janet and Whits were besties. Janbot was frantically posting inane chart "achievements" of Manet. When others got annoyed, Janbot brought up Madonna. Why? Who knows. But it is always as a distraction because Janbot wants others to attack Madonna instead of Janbot. No one was posting articles about Madonna stats or anything. No one was going on and on about Madonna.

Your revisionist history view of how it actually went down is laughable.

And those are real achievements, dear. Not “achievements”.

[quote]At least Whitney never bankrupted state fairs like Janet.

But who is still alive?

In her last years she and Bobbi Christina were doing drugs together. Several pictures of them together looking totally smashed. She was such a typical churchie hypocrite. Praising the Lord and behind the scenes she is nothing but ghetto trash.

If she had just destroyed her life with drugs and bad relationships, it wouldn't have mattered. But she had a kid and messed her up too.

True, she was an exceptional singer, but her public persona was nothing like how she was in person. Blame it all on Cissy and her upbringing, but at a certain stage people grow up and are responsible for their own mistakes and shortcomings.

R293 👍🏻👏

She looked like such a lesbian in the "I Will Always Love You" video.

The power suit, the backwards chair, the lez haircut..

Whitney was pressured into living a lie. After Bobby, she apparently had affairs with women.

She was beautiful but not sexy....akin to Audrey Hepburn

[R293]

Still very beautiful, it was that weight loss that made her unattractive

Agreed r295. Whitney was really dykey in that video.

I don't think Whitney had any men in her life after Brown.

She was also very pregnant in that video.

Whitney looked smashing in her Marlene Dietrich Dolce & Gabbana black sparkle suit with matching mans hat. Play on her original music video of the same. Cant find a photo of the entire D&G ensemble.

R184, no, sadly, it's Whitney who is over. Mariah is still alive. And she can still sing though she is older, heavier and has had periodic voice issues.

R165 it is you who are confused. Mariah most certainly is in their league. Among other things:

Although Mariah scored #1 hits in every year of the 1990s (15 total from 1990-2000), she failed to garner the notoriety she deserved as a songwriter. Of those 15 #1’s, she wrote 14 of them. The only one she didn’t write was a cover of the Jackson 5 classic, “I’ll Be There.” Despite this amazing feat, she is not viewed as the supreme singer-songwriter she so deserves to be.

This is considered one of Mariah's greatest performances. It is at a rehearsal for SNL. "Vanishing" is a song she wrote.

her titty milk tasted like bobby brown's psoriasis medication.

Mariah never wrote a dam song in her whole fat life.

My theory is she was more comfortable in conservative soft butch-like attire.

soft-butch is fun.

Whitney should have been more like Princess Vitarah

bobby made whitney suck out his dirty asshole when they were fukd up on crack

I will never forgive him for dat.

to get the rock she had to suk it deep from within his shit hole.

he stuffed one up there after a dump without wiping. in front of his friends !!!!

UNFORGETTABLE/ UNFORGETTABLE::::::UNFORGIVEable!!!!