I want to move to upstate New York

Boris, try suburbs of Moscow. Is nice.

gay life? Do you want a hipsterish town? Preppy? Scrappy or piss elegant?

Or a big town that will have a certain number of gays?

By upstate do you mean Yonkers to Albany or exactly where? Albany to Plattsburgh? If you go west of from the River, sooner or later you are not "upstate" but in Western New York.

Do you want to live in the mountains?

Move to Utica, all the grey arctic cold, with none of the adventure!

Buffalo.

Hudson Valley, OP. Affordable and lovely. You wouldn’t believe the houses and property up there.

Of course there’s nothing to DO up there, but it doesn’t sound like you want to do much.

Hudson is about as gay as gay can be. Very affordable (compared to Manhattan, Westchester, etc) and filled with good restaurants and culture. But... it is two hours from the city. Not a place to live in if you want to commute every day.

This is too general of a question. Have you even been anywhere in upstate NY before?

In general, though, you don't want live more than a couple of hours away from NYC. Hudson is VERY gay and quite expensive now. Amtrak will take you down to the city from there. Other areas that are hot with teh ghey: Rhinebeck, Redd Hook, Rosendale, High Falls, Kingston, areas around Woodstock.

Job market? Oy. Unless you're a doctor, lawyer, work for a university or do real estate, you will need to find work in the NYC region.

"Of course there’s nothing to DO up there, but it doesn’t sound like you want to do much."

Are you on crack? There's a lot to do up there. Restaurants, outdoorsy stuff, a bunch of artsy towns with galleries, etc.

Tons on universities to work at. Ithaca. Kingston - funky. Stay out of Hudson - unless you are a dealer of some sort.

No no- go stay in the snow for a week first. Vitamin D is really important. Everyone is awful out here. Don’t do it.

Drug dealer? Art dealer? Car dealer, r8?

There is a snow belt. Many parts of "upstate" are not in the snow belt.

Are you an idiot OP? People are leaving these places not going to them.

Clinton NY has hipster Hamilton College and quaint Victorian houses.

This is what Wikipedia says of Hudson, NY: In the early 21st century, Hudson has become a destination for LGBTQ people. Many have opened new businesses, moving here from larger urban areas, and have led the restoration of many of the city's historic houses. In 2010, Hudson High School made national history when openly gay seniors, Timothy Howard and Charlie Ferrusi, won prom king and queen. During the same year, Hudson hosted its first gay pride parade, which was attended by several hundred people.

That said, it's more a place you visit than live

How do you feel about Lyme Disease, OP?

Do a DL search about Hudson. Apart from a few axis roads, it's a nasty slum filled with desperate and poor people. And on the main drag, 20K Hollywood Regency masterpieces.

Answer these questions:

1. What do you do for a living?

2. What is your yearly income?

3. How much can you spend on housing?

4. Do you like snow?

5. How important is it to have access to NYC?

Syracuse is nice.

Avoid Rochester.

I thought Rochester had a decent job market.

I've been considering Ithaca.

Choose carefully. There are some depressing places up there. But, those towns are cheap!

Every decade you live upstate, your IQ drops 10 points.

Yeah Nobel Prize winning scientists at Cornell have always been dumb fucks.

OP, just curious - why NY? (as someone also thinking of moving, making drastic life change)

R14 -- I live there. So do my friends.

Guns & booze

The Finger Lakes region is gorgeous but very expensive if you want to be on the water.

Good. Gay life in LA was better before the NYC queens started coming here with their social climbing b.s. ways. Get lost.

Upstate is full of Nobel Prize winners- oh my fucking sides

There’s an upstate?

[quote]Are you on crack? There's a lot to do up there. Restaurants, outdoorsy stuff, a bunch of artsy towns with galleries, etc.

Yes, I know, my boyfriend and I share a house with his friends up there. But unless you’re really into art and eating—or being outdoors constantly, which is great, I admit—there’s not THAT much to do up there. Maybe fixing up a house is something that could occupy all of OP’s time. God knows my boyfriend and his friends consider that a full time occupation.

I go up there for a weekend and I just about lose my mind from boredom. Can’t wait to get back to the city (and I’m sick to death of the city!)

Word is that Troy is making a comeback. Just like Detroit.

R20 I've lived in Ithaca for over 30 years--came for a job at one the institutions of higher learning. It's very liberal, but it is a bit of a distance from NYC (4-5 hours drive), reasonable drive to Syracuse (about 70 minutes) and also to Rochester (2 hours). Lots of LGBT folk live here, but there is virtually no "gay life" in the sense of a community of gay men or any gay spaces (i.e. bars, clubs). If I were a gay student, I think it would be ideal. I've been with the same man for 20 years, so I don't feel the need for as much community as others might. I think, if you are not student age, it could be an isolating life--unless you seek out other men for social purposes. Obviously, if you are looking for hookups, there are the same apps as everywhere, but I assume that's not why you would be moving. Other than the summers, which can be beautiful, the weather is genuinely awful--cloudy as many days as it is in Seattle. Winters not dreadfully cold for the most part (I grew up in Chicago and lived in Nebraska for a time), but we can get our share of snow. If you are an academic, it is as good a small town as you will find; if not, I'm not sure what the appeal would be.

There's an UPSTATE!

Hey, we got mentioned on "Manifest" on Monday!

OP, I'm sure most people in upstate New York would trade with you in a heartbeat.

Why not move to Horseheads? The real estate is dirt cheap.

R34 what, in God’s name, goes on up there?

Mostly bad roads, weather and smelly country folk, r38.

Troy is, indeed, making a comeback. Albany, Troy, and Schenectady form the Capital District. The region has just under a million residents. There are 13 colleges and universities in the area and that greatly affects the culture in a very good way. Book stores, independent cinema, farmer's markets, a great food co-op, a professional symphony, are in the area. Saratoga springs 30 minutes away. The Berkshires are an hour away. New York City and Boston are each 150 miles away. Montreal is just a bit farther. All summer long, the area is brimming with professional music, theatre, and dance. And there are some extraordinary art museums.

Ask for the winters, for the five years I have been in the area, the winters in New York City have been noticably more severe. The Albany area is far away from the horrible Buffalo / Rochester snow belt.

If you are interested in Upstate New York, the greatet Albany area should be carefully considered.

Why are you all feeding these “I want to move/I’m relocating” trolls? Don’t you see what they’re doing? They’re from troll farms, trying to pick up subtle little American details in order to build believable online characters. It could also be used for espionage.

Holy shit, R41. Do you seriously think that? I love these threads, but I'm also the person who checks out books like "Who's Your City?" and “American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America" from the library. Urban studies and social theory are legitimate topics of discussion, and DLers often have interesting thoughts and advice. I'd be pretty depressed to think that I was talking to trolls.

Not specifically for gay community but general cultural life and activities: Ithaca, Albany, and Beacon.

I haven't spent much time there in recent years but Woodstock and the towns near there used to have a lot of art and music and creativity. As a general rule, you get more bang for the buck West of the Hudson.

I could be wrong, but I think Albany has the most gay bars and there's a bathhouse across the river in Troy.

Indicators of a sizable gay population and/or "gay life."

I am the OP, and I am not a foreign spy. I intentionally made my line of questioning a bit vague because I’m really curious just to see what people think of New York state outside of Manhattan. My career options can tap into so many different types of industries that I left that detail very open. I’m considering New York because I just need a drastic change in my life and I am considering moving back to the East Coast. I am originally from New England but do not wish to move back there. And as much as I love Manhattan as a place to visit, I could never live there.

Only a troll would want to start a thread about upstate NY

[quote][R20] I've lived in Ithaca for over 30 years--came for a job at one the institutions of higher learning. It's very liberal, but it is a bit of a distance from NYC (4-5 hours drive),

I don't care I have no desire to go to NYC.

[quote] reasonable drive to Syracuse (about 70 minutes) and also to Rochester (2 hours).

I'm from London so those sorts of distances seem long to me.

[quote] Lots of LGBT folk live here, but there is virtually no "gay life" in the sense of a community of gay men or any gay spaces (i.e. bars, clubs).

I don't need "gay life" - but I am sociable. I'll make friends.

[quote] If I were a gay student, I think it would be ideal. I've been with the same man for 20 years, so I don't feel the need for as much community as others might.

We're alike.

[quote] I think, if you are not student age, it could be an isolating life--unless you seek out other men for social purposes. Obviously, if you are looking for hookups, there are the same apps as everywhere, but I assume that's not why you would be moving.

Hookups? Gurl, NO!

[quote]Other than the summers, which can be beautiful, the weather is genuinely awful--cloudy as many days as it is in Seattle.

As I said, I'm from London. I like clouds.

[quote]Winters not dreadfully cold for the most part (I grew up in Chicago and lived in Nebraska for a time), but we can get our share of snow.

Yippee! I love snow and have been snow starved for way too long.

[quote] If you are an academic, it is as good a small town as you will find; if not, I'm not sure what the appeal would be.

I'll check it out before I move in. Found some fab properties online.

Try Northeastern Pennsylvania instead. Look at the 8 county area. Lower taxes. Cheaper housing. 2 hours to NYC. A mix of deplorables liberals and moderates.

I live between London and NYC now , but a few years ago I lived in Saratoga Springs and then Troy, after taking time off and leaving Los Angeles after a bad break up ... and they were a nice peaceful oasis of normalcy from the bustle of the big cities . I was a happier soul there . Many Victorian towns up there . New Paltz and Rhinebeck are also amazing . So many places that have culture, wilderness, down to earth people, and community. I actually yearn for that life again . I’m tired of traffic and noise and robots glued to their cell phones crossing the street ;)

Quite frankly a remote island off the coast of Scotland looks more and more appealing.

Troy is, indeed, making a come-back. The downtown has amazing restaurants, especially Peck's Arcade, and there's the best farmer's market in the state. Lots to do, and interesting people. Albany and Schenectady are a mess, especially the latter.

The weirdest thing is that, although no one else cares at all about these three cities, they hate each other. Troy and Albany call Schenectady Shit-nectady. Schenectady and Albany call Troy Troy-let. Schenectady and Troy call Albany Small-bany.

But still, Hudson is the better bet. More gay, closer to the city.

I've lived in Hudson Valley, Upstate, New England's finish cities, Montreal, NYC, SF, London, Paris, Cannes, and Geneva. Upstate is as good a place as any.

Until very recently, Upstate had 4 very definite seasons and each are lovely. A lot of places in the world don't offer that. The entire stretch of the Hudson up to Albany is great. The Catskills and Adirondacks are great, as is the Finger Lakes region. People poo poo this area haven't been there. But sure, there are horrible nasty towns there, just like in New England and in France.

I'm told Sharon Springs is up and coming

I prefer NW CT or Western MA. Prettier towns, less rundown, less mixture of Deplorables with NYC refeugees. They are all pretty remote though. Beautiful for 6 months. But having done it for 3 years, I found it be a little unsatisfying. Nature, space and lower cost of living is nice - but I realize people and stimulation are good influences to keep a person happy. Very easy to become isolated in your house up there.

You'll be bored out of your frozen mind.

R41 Millions of people move every year around the world.

I read somewhere that the average American will move 7 times during their lifetime.

Why is it so difficult for you to understand some of us might want a DL perspective of the area we are considering?

If we wanted the hetero majority opinion, we could look at Trulia or some other realtor site.

I just thought Lyme Disease when I read the title. This is an extreme move and I think you really need to visit for awhile - try airbnb and not a hotel. I live in LA and I would consider Northern California, Oregon or Washington.

If you are going to be living alone, make sure you feel safe where you live. As you may have heard, we are not liked by all people...

R58 You bring up an interesting point at the end of your comment.

LGBT safety.

Does anyone online make a U.S. hate crimes map that tracks all the LGBT attacks in the past decade or two?

It would be interesting to see what the rate per 100,000 population would be for each U.S. city.

The data map might contain a few eye openers for LGBT movers.

Just moved to Rochester. The Great Lakes accent is pretty funny. It’s a neat place, with a few really good restaurants, and gorgeous outdoor beauty, but the snow is persistent. So I’m definitely moving after 2 years in my current job.

BTW, in case anyone else has business-focused sex like me, there are very few hookers on official apps. And not a lot of hot-but-poor college twinks on Grindr who will let you pay for it. There are 2 gay bars and a shitty bathhouse, but they yield very poor results.

Albany is a pathetic little town but oddly the guys have huge cocks

I live in the Florida Keys. I want to move to northern Minnesota. Can somebody tell me what it’s like? Are there jobs there? What’s the housing situation? Weather?

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. How is the “gay life” there?

New Paltz is nice OP.

I know no one who moved from California (my home state) to upstate New York and enjoyed it. Most got the hell out of there as quickly as possible.

You'll need a gun and warm clothing.

You're in a state of mind, OP

Lennox isn't cheap R55. Here's a great old pile.

You’re all being used by these trolls. Awful. Goodbye America. Hello Moscow.

Seek help for your paranoia, R68.

I live in Santa Barbara and want to move to Moore, Oklahoma or Joplin, Missouri. Please tell me all about these towns so I can make a decision. I can’t stay in Santa Barbara much longer because the ocean, the mountains and the flowers are just so soul-deadening.

R70 = Oprah

No, you don't, OP.

R18, Syracuse is fair at best. "Nice" is a stretch.

I live in Bora Bora and want to move to Baden Baden.

[quote]I live in the Florida Keys. I want to move to northern Minnesota. Can somebody tell me what it’s like? Are there jobs there? What’s the housing situation? Weather? Oh yeah, I almost forgot. How is the “gay life” there?

Thanks for the laugh.

I want to move to Dildo, Newfoundland. Do you get special deals on dildoes up there?

I live in London but I want to live in Lubbock, TX. The cost of living........

No statewide forest fires, no hurricanes, plenty of fresh water, and minimally impacted by global warming.

In short order people will be flocking there.

I'd rather fight alligators, anacondas and giant cockroaches in Florida than move to that gelid hell known as upstate NY

I loved Syracuse when I lived there. Affordable, an up-and-coming downtown feel, festivals throughout the summer. Definitely recommend.

I know an eldergay couple and a middle aged lesbian couple who've lived in the Hudson Valley for decades and love it. As others have said above, it's a gay friendly area with better weather than upstate. The gay scene is surprisingly active for a more rural area. I've been there a few times, and it's lovely with a lot of outdoor activities if that's your style. There's much less going on than in major urban areas like London/SF/LA, but there's a decent amount going on given the area's population. NYCers enjoy the Hudson Valley as a weekend escape.

That said, I live in London by way of the California (mostly the SF Bay Area), and I agree that you should spend some time visiting before committing to a move. The area you're looking at would be a huge change from those areas. Yes London has lots of clouds and rain, but you'd better be prepared for huge dumps of snow and frigid temps. London has much milder weather all four seasons than anywhere in upstate New York.

How does an American get employed in England???? I would kill to live in London if only for a year....

I moved from NYC to the Hudson valley 6 years ago. Can't wait to get out of here.

I started in New Paltz - very overpriced due to the SUNY there and the fact that it is the only decent school district within a 50 mile radius. Boring and little diversity. The city is completely overpoliced by campus, city and state police.

Then I moved to Rosendale. Strange place full of Bernie Bots, surrounded by rural poverty, opiates and guns. A few restaurants on the shabby Main St. Has a large transgender community for some reason, probably because there is a small HUD-subsidized housing complex by the city pool where they all live. Be sure to put your dog in a bright orange t shirt in fall, to avoid a senseless tragedy. I found out that locals were using my foresty backyard as a practice shooting range.

I never considered Hudson because as someone noted above, about a quarter of the city lives in abject poverty. Sad place. A few gay people, cafes and galleries does not take away from the fact that it is a urbrural slum.

I am in Kingston temporarily. Seems like there has been a huge influx of city folk, and yes tons of gay men. Again, a city with a high poverty rate. If you move there you are helping evict the non white folks from their homes. The Stockade district/the Strand surrounded by concentric circles of urb-rural poverty. And opiates.

I am considering moving to Spain as my next step (I was born in La and have lived in San Francisco, Palm Springs, Mexico City and NYC, and now the problematic Hudson Valley.) I just don't see any affordable places left in the US that offer what I want.

R82 Uk has an absolute shortage of nurses and doctors. So if you want to get residency there and a job, get a RN or MD.

R83 and I didn't mention the weather: for 4 months the weather is awful.

Hudson Valley is lovely in late spring, summer and early fall. Then you need to go elsewhere.

And I am also R84. I love London and while exiled in the Hudson Valley I would fly out there every 4-6 weeks as I was dating someone I met on Guardian Soulmates (yes, much better than OKCupid). I thought of getting a med license for the UK but then I realized that London is so similar to NYC now I didn't want to work long hours at the NHS to afford a bedroom in a former council flat in Camden.

R83, you live close to Canada. Why not there?

I love Rhinebeck and Saratoga, but both are pricier than other upstate towns.

R83 again While working at a hospital in that hell hole Poughkeepsie, I had a patient come at me and beat me unconscious. Ah, the Hudson Valley.

R86 Brrrrrrr that is really the main reason. I was offered a job in Alberta that paid more than I have ever made. I was told in winter you have to walk in tunnels as it is so cold and snowy.

R82, I'm able to live in the UK through one of my parents who's an immigrant from an EU country. In most cases, the easiest way for an American to move to the UK is to marry a Brit (or EU citizen until Brexit). If you're on the UK's skill shortage list you can also get sponsored by a company. For temporary moves you can study in the UK through a student visa or try to get a transfer if your company has a branch there.

I don't love London, though. It's really expensive, and it's hard to make friends. There's some anti-American sentiment, plus it's just not a super friendly city in general. I live in a Zone 3 neighbourhood and have a minimum 45 minute commute and 2-3 train/bus rides to get to anything fun. I'd rather live in Scotland, which is more affordable and welcoming, but this is where my I could find work for now.

Hudson is a grim city with a sharp dividing line down the center (Warren Street.) On one side are beautiful historic houses and on the other side extreme poverty, shootings, police sirens constantly on summer nights, etc.

While it has a large gay population they are mostly couples either weekending in Hudson or having moved there. There are few single people and every available queen is on every online site.

As far as the "art scene", I saw a guy walking up Warren St the other day with a camera slung around his neck and wearing a beret. It is infested with artist wannabees.

Why New York? Northampton MA is very gay friendly. Legal pot. Charming downtown. Amtrak will take you into the city in an hour. Rural and woodsy surroundings. Rent is not astronomical. Some interesting housing stock. Ithaca has a housing shortage and is expensive. Summers are lovely because all the pain in the ass college kids leave. But come August...Winters can be challenging. Best thing about Ithaca are the waterfalls. Less hippy-dippy than it used to be. Great green market. Lots of interesting restaurants. Lots of things to do thanks to Cornell. Concerts, lectures, nice art museum but there is nothing around it except wineries. And farms.

Ithaca is smack dab in the middle of nowhere. You can get a flight to Philly, DC or Detroit. That’s about it.

Every person I ever met who bought in Hudson couldn’t wait to sell. They al bought into the artsy, tons- of -restaurants advertising and found s few restaurants and bakeries (lots close and reopen as something else, then close again). And how many art galleries with overpriced art do you really need? It’s colder than they thought, lonelier than they thought, farther from NYC than they thought and after going up there to visit once, none of their friends want to visit again. And yeah, poverty. It can be scary at the train station at night.

It ain’t no Bedford Falls

Hudson NY is also “not the new Brooklyn” and who cares if it’s “the Un-Hamptons.” Everything outside the Hamptons is the “Un-Hamptons.” Peoria is the Un-Hamptons.

Agree R92. People need to leave NYC for financial reasons - but don’t think through how isolating it is to live up there. Yes, there is a veneer of a social scene but It wears thin quickly - and then you’re stuck in upstate NY. I would choose Houston or Cleveland or Tampa or some other midrange city before upstate NY.

R62 (Florida —> Northern Minnesota) I almost fell for that.

- Minnesotan, laughing. Was getting ready to ask for some of your drugs. (Although the area around the northern Great Lakes region voted blue)

R82, could you speak to how you liked living in Palm Springs?

[quote]Albany is a pathetic little town but oddly the guys have huge cocks

More than just Steve the real estate agent?

[quote]Rosendale

Outstanding natural cement

[quote]Northampton MA is very gay friendly. Legal pot. Charming downtown. Amtrak will take you into the city in an hour.

If by city you mean Hartford, CT. Penn Station's got to be four hours south.

You'll need some appropriate upstate attire, OP.

upstate ny means anything outside of the nyc metro area.

It doesn't take four hours by train to get to Northampton MA. It takes four and a half hours to get to Ithaca by BUS.

[quote] I've decided to move to upstate New York

you could just die.

It would have a similar effect but dying is quicker and less painful

What about RIDGEFIELD (CT), is it gay friendly ?

I haven't bern to Hudson in years (really not since it got trendy) , but it used to have streetwalkers. Skinny druggy looking ones.

I thought it was kind of depressing that such a small city would look so bleak, and it sounds like the down and out still have a substantial portion of the place.

One poster mentioned some Hudson Valley towns with poor people. I don't know if there are any cities where everyone is prosperous. If they exist, I probably can't afford them. OTOH there are plenty of places with low crime rates that do well on overall quality of life measures.

Not Poughkeepsie, though. There are nice areas, but much of it is just awful.

Hudson has changed R104 -- it's got pockets of real wealth, and the areas that were depressed are, for better or worse, being gentrified. Used to be that South of Warren was fancy, North was poor. But now that there's little left to gentrify in the Southern part, the Northern part is getting prettified. Lots of new construction, lots of old houses being renovated. The town is still mixed, and has a large non-white population, but that's what makes Hudson so much better than Rhinebeck or Kinderhook etc -- it looks like real life, not some Upper Eastsider's version of The Country (ie: white people in LL Bean fleece buying darling socks and amusing furniture for their weekend homes).

It's not that urban poverty exists everywhere, it's that it exists in much higher rates in these upstate rustbelt cities, where the loss of manufacturing created zones of generational poverty.

I used to go to Port Jeris 2 days a week to treat opiate addicts with buprenorphine. One month, 5 - 6 town residents died due to fentanyl contamination. The town desperately needs a methadone clinic but the mayor has refused to allow the clinic to be opened in any transportation-accessible area. And precious money is being spent to upgrade the small main drag to try to encourage city people to spend money there, where 2 blocks away, people are overdosing daily. There are no decent jobs that offer benefits in the area.

Also most of the local swimming holes are teeming with bacteria and giardia and are too polluted to swim in. You have to go hiking up in the Catskills to find swimming places that are free of human and animal fecal matter.

Opiate addiction has transformed upstate new york into a gravesite for the young.

All of my patients who have died of ODs were aged 20 - 35. One was a pregnant 24 year old.

I have quite a different perspective of the Hudson Valley as I work with the "other Hudson Valley"

Please read up on crime and opiate addiction before you settle up here. It can be rather grim.

Hudson has a very high crime rate for its size.

I would never live there. And I work in Port Jervis, lol.

Yeah I really don’t get the fantasy of Hudson. Fine for a weekend but depressing as hell full time. Maybe if you had a chunk of land with views of nature outside the city. But then, I’m not sure why its important to be near Hudson vs any other upstate town - or MA for that matter. Some nice restaurants but expensive. The whole thing seems geared towards a hipster weekend away from Brooklyn. When there are so many other places to live in the US, I can’t imagine why someone would choose Hudson - or upstate NY in general.

They are paying people to move to Vermont.

True! I saw the news on TV here in Canada, r110.

Beacon usurped Hudson's title as "The New Brooklyn." It's achieved peak gentrification. People are looking across the river to Newburgh as the next Beacon but that city makes Hudson look like Mayberry. If you want the bucolic gay life, move to Sharon Springs and try to meet the fabulous Beekman Boys.

All you posters who are using the term "Hudson Valley" can you please define what area/cities you mean by that?

They have some AMAZING Adirondack style new homes in upstate NY for a great price, but there’s nothing to do up there but hunt

Plattsburgh, Dannemora, Mooers....ah, it's like hell, but cold.

Today is Winterwalk in Hudson -- it's actually very lovely, lots of excellent food and entertainment and music... and something like 7,500 people walking through the streets... in the cold...

The Hudson Valley in my opinion, starts at West Point - Cold Springs and continues to Albany. From Hudson to Albany is a bit North for Hudson Valley proper but OK. North of the Catskills, West of the Hudson, South of Albany, that's really not "Hudson Valley" - its a bit of no man's land. On the East side of the Hudson I'd include almost to the state borders and then there's a mix of Berkshires and Hudson Valley, then it's Berkshires. Millbrook seems more CT almost than Hudson Valley and it's not even on the state line. Ancramdale seems the early Berkshires.

Upstate NY is wonderful -- if you're a recluse.

Why did we have these continuous debates when the bottom line is always the same. If you're gay and single and can afford to live very anywhere in the country it's New York City, Los Angeles or San Francisco For potential tier two happiness it's a city with a major league football team. The rest of you and me are doomed to be old maids.

This whole thing of trying to promote Hudson as "The New Brooklyn" is complete bullshit. That's being promoted by a handful of people who can not stop reporting breathlessly on any mention of Hudson in any article or blog.

Hudson used to be a place where you could buy a house for $50K-$125K. An essentially derelict house and it would not be unusual for it to be a crack house. Well, all of that is gone now on the south side of Warren Street. Yet they still talk about Hudson being "up and coming."

North of Warren is NOT being gentrified. It is basically a ghetto with Section 8 housing, poverty, drugs, etc and everything you'd expect with that.

Cornwall is a clean, but boring little town. Near the river and West Point, less than two hours to the NYC.

R120 hasn't been to Hudson in many years. North of Warren is getting expensive -- houses that sold for $125K five years ago are going for $300K -- and the ones that have been renovated well are getting much more.

This one went on the market a few weeks ago and apparently is in a bidding war.

Paying$300k for a house in downtown Hudson is absurd. Go to northern Westchester County where at least you can access NYC and be connected to a metro area. Or suburban Philly. Hudson is ridiculous - some cute overpriced shops and restaurants surrounded by poverty.

[quote] If you're gay and single and can afford to live very anywhere in the country it's New York City, Los Angeles or San Francisco

Not everyone wants the same thing. Living in any of the three cities you mentioned would be hell on earth for many.

Being in the best place to swallow an endless supply of cocks is, shockingly, NOT the first priority on some people's lists.....

Upstate New York = the Deep South, without the accents and manners

They do hunt (and sometimes eat) outsiders.

Isn't Hudson, NY mostly ghetto?

Yes. It’s most,y ghetto. But someone got Hudson designated as an enterprise zone back in the day and they’ve been trying to gentrify the area for years.

Move to the Catskills.

The Catskills indeed. Are you fond of heroin? I hope so, because that may well be the welcoming gift your new neighbors bring you.

Hudson is not mostly ghetto. It's 1/3 wealthy. 1/3 middle class. And 1/3 poor. Which makes it kind of real, not like the make-believe towns nearby that are either all white or all minority through careful segregation. If you're looking for the Hamptons, ignore Hudson. If you're looking for something more real, something where you can interact with all levels of society (in a beautiful setting), then Hudson is a good choice.

One thing you should know Upstate NY is a really big. There are a lot of regional differences. It is a beautiful place though and there is plenty to do if you like the outdoors.

Yes r30, they call it Westchester...

And r40 hits the nail on the head... Very nice in and around Albany and very inexpensive.

I also think Rochester and buffalo have a tremendous amount of upside opportunity.

Albany area is really more East Coast. Once you get to Rochester and Buffalo, they're more geared toward Toronto. Syracuse/Ithaca is somehwere between. Then there are the accents once past Utica. Nasal and flat like all the Great Lakes cities.

Cold Spring, NY is lovely. I used to live there with an ex (right on Main Street).

In Rochester, car = care. It’s sort of like fucking Fargo.

The name Mary is pronounced Meeery.

R131 When you live in a smallish city where 33 percent of the residents live in abject poverty, it sure is a big deal. 33% of your neighbors are suffering horribly - perhaps they are hungry and cold (no money for heating oil).

This is Hudson, where your neighbors suffer every day. Of course it is a big deal. It is not a bucolic setting where you can scurry from your farmer's market to the overpriced farm-fresh restaurant, and hope to make no contact with 33 PERCENT OF YOUR NEIGHBORS.

The attitude of the NYC exiles who have colonized these post-industrial slums is amazing.

We move to upstate New York, best decsion of our lives

Well R138 it's a start. What would you prefer?

Poor R138 is far too stupid to know the difference between "poor" and "abject poverty." You see, dear, poor simply means below average income. Abject poverty means just that. Abject. Poverty. Perhaps if you were to go back to high school and learn things like "reading" and "writing," you could post here and not sound like a, well, abject idiot.