American History X - 20 Years Later

Strange that the director disavows it; it was quite critically acclaimed.

Roberto Benigni's win is bizarre, in hindsight, but I don't fall into the camp that says "Life Is Beautiful" is so terrible. It has some redeeming facets, including the score, and, yes, the performances.

Tony Kaye hates it because Norton changed so much of it and had the studio etc. backing him up over Kaye. Granted, it’s obvious Norton was right in all his changes as the film is fantastic, but Kaye doesn’t see it that way.

“He gave one of my favorite male performances (until the very last scene).”

What’s wrong with the last scene, OP?

R3 I always felt he fluttered in that final scene. His screams were weak and his crying looked forced. You can tell it was shot later in a reshoot as he looked like he lost that sincerity he had the rest of the film.

Yeah I feel like he was faking it and secretly happy Edward Furlong was dead!

Skinhead porn for those with the fetish; nothing more and nothing less.

I hated the extreme violence, especially the curb scene, that I watched it the once in the movies and never saw it again.

I've watched it a dozen times just to see Norton's body. That was him at his hottest, especially the shower scene.

R8 well he bulked up for the role. They didn’t think he was the right actor for the part until he bulked up and showed them he was committed. He let himself go back to skinny right after.

R9 Yep, and it was all downhill for him since then

R10 I agree about him making boring choices since. At first he made bold character choices but since then it’s been a bore minus Fight Club and he was the best part of Birdman.

Agree R6

I don't care for Norton at all. I only watched Jennifer Lien's parts. I was a big fan of her STV & Phenom work.

It's sad how she seems to be giving the skinheads a run for their money with her antics.

Edward furlong is unrecognizable now

Thanks for that R14. It's fascinating to do an image search.

^ sorry for the broken link; anyway, the Getty images of Edward Furlong from 90s-00s are fascinating.

[quote]I still get upset that Norton did not win the Oscar for Best Actor over Roberto Benigni.

That was surprising. And that monkey-climb over the seats only made his win seem more ridiculous.

This film is one of the best. Norton was phenomenal

I haven't even seen I through IX.

Edward Norton

I liked it, but couldn't sit through it a second time. Can't imagine 50.

It's unintentionally hilarious and one of the most heavy handed movies ever. Terrible.

[quote]Roberto Benigni's win is bizarre, in hindsight, but I don't fall into the camp that says "Life Is Beautiful" is so terrible. It has some redeeming facets, including the score, and, yes, the performances.

Indeed. The film made an emotional impact on a lot of audiences.

It has a beautiful, Oscar-winning score by Nicola Piovani and the story is about trying to maintain a sense of joy for life even in the most horrendous circumstances.

I didn't have a problem with Benigni's win, although I would have given the Oscar to Ian McKellen for 'Gods & Monsters' over Norton.

I don't get the love for this movie. I mean, I saw it when it came out and that was enough. Aside from the curb scene, nothing else is memorable to me. The story was formulaic, and I recall feeling that Norton's character's change of heart and 180 degree turnaround was lame and unrealistic.

[quote]Roberto Benigni's win is bizarre, in hindsight, but I don't fall into the camp that says "Life Is Beautiful" is so terrible. It has some redeeming facets, including the score, and, yes, the performances.

Indeed. "Life Is Beautiful" made an emotional impact with a lot of audiences.

It has a beautiful Oscar-winning score by Nicola Piovani and the story is about trying to find a spirit of joy even in the darkest circumstances.

Benigni is more of a comedian than an actor, but this was a once in a lifetime role where he did something a little bit special. I don't have a problem with his win, but I would have given the Oscar to Ian McKellen for "Gods & Monsters" over Edward Norton.

I thought the veteran supporting cast were all wonderful and added gravitas, including Beverly D’Angelo, Stacy Keach, Avery Brooks, and especially Elliot Gould who encapsulated the conflict of the entire project with his non-verbal moments

I thought Edward Norton looked beautiful in this.

R27, me too. I’ve looked into his other movies - and boy are they a disappointment!

He was okay in "The Score", but he was upstaged by Robert DeNiro and Marlon Brando.

I think he’s a good actor, love him in a few performances like Birdman, American History X, Primal Fear, 25th Hour etc.

Used to be obsessed with Fight Club.

But as far as looked this was his sexiest, and it’s probably cause he had to put on 20 pounds of muscle to play Derrick. Afterwards he said he would never maintain that muscle and would never want a role where he had to work out like that again lol

I hate this movie. Complete cheese. A Lifetime Nazi movie.

I thought Guy Torry, who played the African-American prisoner who works in the laundry who Norton befriends, was great and had real star quality. I expected him to have some kind of breakout role later, but he never did.

I didn’t like the end to the movie at all, which seemed forced.

R32 with his brother being killed? That was always the plan I believe, only after we were supposed to see Derrick go back to his old ways once his brother is killed, but they decided to scrap that idea and keep it where it’s still hopeful and the viewer can decide what happens after.

Are you saying there is an alternate ending where he goes back to his hateful ways?

Is that the source of the feud with the director?

Yasssss R8 !!! I honestly thought the director just wanted some homoerotic spank material.

R34 there’s a lot more to the source of the feud. Norton basically rewrote scenes and had scenes edited how he wanted them etc.

The original vision focused more on Furlongs character, Norton made it more about Derrick as Derrick is a more compelling character. He even changed the angle of camerawork and the ending etc.

[quote]Norton basically rewrote scenes and had scenes edited how he wanted them etc.

Did he really have that much clout?

The film was not Kaye’s vision and a completely different film from what he wanted. So much so that he disowned the film and requested his name not be attached to it. He wanted his name removed as the Director but they refused to do it for him.

Here’s an article from 2008

Tony Kaye didn’t even want Norton in the role. New Line wanted him, Kaye fought hard against his casting and eventually just accepted and agreed to direct him. He never felt he was right for the role.

The clashed while filming, and Norton, who had New Line backing him in everything, got them to ban Kaye from the editing room and gave Norton full access, even keys to the room. So Norton had control of how the film was edited etc. Norton made his own notes, some rewrites and changed some stuff. Kaye threw fits but producers and New Line execs sided with Norton.

Now I am fascinated to see a Kaye cut

Basically the film as released wasn't the film Kaye wanted

From Wikipedia

With some suggestions from New Line, Tony Kaye, the film's director, manufactured a second heavily shortened cut, which New Line rejected as it bore little resemblance to the first. Film editor Jerry Greenberg was brought in to cut a third version with Edward Norton.

Kaye disowned the third version as the final cut of the film, as he did not approve of its quality. He tried (and failed) to have his name removed from the credits, openly telling some interviewers he tried to invoke the Alan Smithee pseudonym which the Directors Guild of America used to reserve for such cases. When refused he then tried "Humpty Dumpty" as an alternative name.

So there are 3 cuts of the film.

2 Kaye versions (which are nothing alike) and the one we got, the Norton version.

Oz film 'Romper Stomper' is far superior and has no ultra violence scenes for the boys to wank off too

The first Kaye ending was Derrick (Norton) apologizing to a black guy and the black man either stabbing or shooting him, then through the eyes of Derrick, we see the black mans foot go up and stomp into his head, with the screen going black. New Line rejected this cause it was a terrible ending for Derrick and proved his original beliefs of hatred toward black men.

The second ending was Derricks brother getting killed (like we saw) but then the last shot is Derrick shaving his head again with a face of menace and putting on a black mask (him rejoining the Aryan hate group).

The ending we received was sad, but more positive, in that Derrick was a completely new man no matter what. That’s Norton’s ending.

R43

Romper Stomper is very violent.

Edward Norton was taking more and more control of the film as filming went on, gave himself more screen time, changed the script with more lines for himself etc.

Derrick was a supporting character changed to the lead by the star himself.

Tony Kaye was blacklisted from Hollywood for a long while after this movie.

R45 Not like the head into the sidewalk violence that got all the skinheads wanking in the cinemas

I hate how so many people think racists jerk off to this movie when on the internet since it was released you’ll find more racists bitching about this movie than anything because “Derrick compromised his truth and vision” etc.

But then again I did meet one person was open about only watching the first 45 minutes to an hour of the film until Derrick starts to be hardcore anti racist.

I guess some of them DO jerk off to that curb stomp scene