Slavery and homosexuality

Asking for a friend

Pleasure me you ebony wench!

boner

I'm curious as well...

Is this a Quadroon?

"Punch my kitten, Mandingo!"

Here is an article which briefly mentions homosexuality in the south during slavery. It says it was common for white men to force themselves upon black men. The ones that didn't resist were known as "docile slaves" and we're shamed among slaves. It also says that LGBT slaves were forced to procreate against their will to produce more slaves. Overall, some very sad yet eye-opening information.

Were shamed* fucking autocorrect.

R7? LGBT slaves? There were trans slaves? DO go on.....

I'm curious too, but I suspect this is one of those questions that's almost entirely lost to history.

Slave-owners just didn't leave records of their sexual abuse of slaves, and nobody ever asked the slaves what had been done to them. That's one of the problems with a society that was hypocritical to its core, pretending to be all about morality, religion, and good manners but allowing men of the slave-owning class to rape with impunity - every man fucked who he wanted, but never admitted to anything, and never wrote anything down.

It would have been useful if the Southern "aristocracy" had produced a De Sade, someone who actually wrote about what he did, but nothing has come to light.

It's s major wank scenario for me so I'd like to know more

R10 it might be possible there are autobiographies written by slaves? The victim wants to tell the story more than the criminal.

When white women were captured by native Americans and kept in many different kinds of slavery some of them managed to write it all down - they are called "captivity narratives" and kinda interesting.

I wouldn't have thought it was that common given the social taboo of homosexuality at the time.

R13 oh, please. Let's not be naïve. It has been documented that wealthy white men bought young teen black men mostly for sexual purposes. Although it was more common for them to buy women and young girls.

Corn holin' in the corn field.

I read an article that said the reason why homophobia is so rampant in Jamaican society is due to all the gay rapes that happened on slave ships on the way to the island. That coupled with Christianity being forced upon them created very ingrained homophobic views.

R11, you should be sodomized with a hot poker and then set aflame.

Here is another brief article on a website dedicated to gay history. It suggests that there is a lack of research and verifiable facts on homosexuality and slavery, but that it suggests that it was VERY common at the time. According to this, homosexual relations between blacks and whites were not necessarily forced but many times they were consensual. It also states that homosexuality among slaves themselves was common as a way of bonding.

Cool. I figured there would be some narratives and I wonder if there are not more in archives yet to be discovered.

"[R10] it might be possible there are autobiographies written by slaves? The victim wants to tell the story more than the criminal. "

It was actually illegal to teach slaves to read and write in the 19the century slave-owning South, R12, and Frederick Douglas wrote about using subterfuges to get white kids to teach him to read. So few ex-slaves could have written about their experiences, and fewer still could get their words into the hands of publishers or archivists.

Of course during the late 19th and early 20th century some oral histories were taken, but the sort of people who record oral histories are not the sort who ask probing questions about sex.

I réalise all that r20. But things maybe got out, or got remembered in oral histories. Would be cool, that's all I'm saying.

In Jamaica, the Brits used to sodomize a young black boy in public as a humiliation ritual for misbehaving. This led to a strong dislike and shame regarding homosexuality.

There was also an even worse humiliation ritual called Derby's Dose that is too horrific to even write in words.

The Senatrice could open up an investigation into this controversial matter.

Oh god, the "too horrific to even write in words" troll is back at r22. How about via semaphore? Just choke it out already it's the fucking DL not a quilting bee.

You think the BBC slave would top the white master

R25, like this ?

R26 You wouldn’t think a master would submit that way

R27, that's master's twink son

Let's check the footage. Gay sex with slaves was well-documented by the early documentary filmmakers of the 17th and 18th century.

Homophobic blacks have tried to claim it was rampant, but there's no evidence of it either way.

Interestingly enough there are plenty of videos on YouTube talking about this subject. White men frequently raped black men in front of their children, wives and other slaves to emasculate him so that they wouldn't respect him and so that they would only obey the white man. This would happen on the ships and on the plantations.

R24, Derby's Dose was a type of torture where a runaway slave or a slave who stole food would be flogged, then his/ her wounds would have a mixture of salt and lime rubbed in them. After that another slave would be made to defecate into the mouth of the victim, then their mouth would be gagged for hours. Slave owner Thomas Thistlewood came up with it when a slave of his called Derby "stole" food by eating sugar cane in the fields he slaved in.

[quote]It's s major wank scenario for me so I'd like to know more

Hear, hear!

There are more records than you'd think. Here's a discussion of where to start.

are any of these documentaries online, r29? i’d love to see them.

I made the mistake of once asking the question in a group discussion between black and white friends if they believed all sex between slaves and their owners was rape. I suppose that growing up in Virginia I had somehow romanticized the relationship between Sally Hemmings and Thomas Jefferson. Apparently the correct answer is that it was all rape, and that's that.

But doesn't anyone here think that there were SOME taboo love matches? Even if 90% of slave owners were bad people without respect for their help, surely there were at least some Romeo and Juliet or Romeo and Jean Pierre situations in New Orleans(where slavery was just a little different from that of the plantations of the Deep South.

[R23]

You leave me alone. I have the vapors!

R35, how could it NOT have happened? I know that the socially correct answer is, "No love can exist between people who are unequal in power," but I don't believe that for a second.

R35, I don't see how it's possible to genuinely love someone who has complete power over you, unless you're a BDSM submissive. Because even if there's passion, the relationship is so intrinsically unequal that it's impossible to fully emotionally invest in it.

But then, nobody in the modern US is the right person to ask, go to a country where slavery exists today, like Dubai. Ask a maid who's fucking her employer whether it's possible to love when your employer/owner can rape, abuse, or kill you with no consequences.

You have literally no ability to say no to your slavemaster. I'm sure there were some slaves who wanted it, but I'm not sure consent even exists in a scenario this extreme. It's not like sleeping with your college professor.

R35, I imagine that even if it felt like consent to the participants, it was still likely something akin to Stockholm syndrome.

I serve at and for POTUS pleasure.

Oh my!

Is this what you folks are searching to find?

[quote] I don't see how it's possible to genuinely love someone who has complete power over you, unless you're a BDSM submissive. Because even if there's passion, the relationship is so intrinsically unequal that it's impossible to fully emotionally invest in it.

R38 you do realize that most women had little to no power in any marriage in the mid 1800's and before, don't you? Woman had no say so whether sex happened, they had no power or ability to leave. Divorce was either illegal or so taboo you were branded if you attempted divorce and would likely get nothing, to start a new life.

There are a ton of slave narratives, but I am not aware of any dealing with homosexuality. Harriet Jacobs’ “Incidents in the life of a Slave Girl” is a rare explicit discussion of an enslaved woman’s sexual experiences. Many others like Dougless and William Wells Brown refer to m/f rapes/abuse. There were allegedly rumors that black women’s vaginas were “hotter” and vibrated more than a white woman’s junk. I can’t recall the historian who wrote that.

OP, Have you pondered those long trips by Columbus/other discoverers and maybe pirates? Do you think they kept records of homosex?

Please, massah, don't you take mah maaan!

There's a scene in Roots in which young Kunta Kinte and his pals are laying in a pile groping each other before their capture by slavers.

[quote] go to a country where slavery exists today, like Dubai. Ask a maid who's fucking her employer whether it's possible to love when your employer/owner can rape, abuse, or kill you with no consequences.

It's not solely slaves whose lives were and are subject to whim. The same is true for any minority, e.g., Jews, Roma, gays, etc.

It's a testament to black people that they are not more angry. It's telling white people are not more contrite. This thread has horrific stuff.

[quote]produced mulattoes and quadroons

F&F RACIST TROLL BAIT

Mmmmm beautiful big black Jamaican cock...sounds delicious. But I would never go to Jamaica....those people.make me feel uneasy

This thread is another reminder of why it's ok to hate white people. And Trump isn't helping either.

R35 90% bad? I think you meant 100% bad. All slave masters we're evil. No such thing as a good one. The only good white man is a dead white man. This thread proves it.

Once again, Trump ain't helping.

Weren't male slaves sold naked? Example of power and potential abuse.

This thread is yet another reminder of the ignorance, bigotry and racism of so many DLers. See R52 for details.

R52/Triggered much bitch?

I sometimes wish I were a plantation owner, because of all the black dick I'd be getting.

R50, those are historical terms and are perfectly legitimate when referring to historical cases.

Also, R34, are you seriously inquiring about "early documentary filmmakers of the 17th and 18th century"? Film was not even invented until the nineteenth century, and the earliest documentary filmmakers did not appear until the 1920s. I hope you guys are kidding.

Don't forget the U.K. used to persecute or banish people they considered "mad" to the States. Homosexuals were considered crazy in 17th century England so I'd imagine there were plenty of gay men that came over to the US and some likely were slave owners that raped or had relationships with black men.

r57 that’s why i asked, darling.

Thank God, R59. You can never know for sure, with some of the ignorance spewed on this board.

British criminals were also sent to the plantations as 'indentured servants' and they often found their masters placed legal barriers to prevent their freedom. They became slaves in effect, as per r58.

R12 thank you for that, I will be looking it up

Toni Morrison seems to be much too fascinated with her own invention of a scene in BELOVED, in which a white overseer gets a blow job from a slave.

Interesting how some threads about certain topics get closed almost instantly, while this thread...which also will not end well...is left open. I guess it depends on who’s modding that day.

r35, watch Free State of Jones.

This may be the wrong thread to bring this up, but we've had other threads where we've been asked if we have many gay friends. I've always been embarrassed to admit that I don't have many. But here's why. My ex (who I'm still very close to) is black, while I'm white. Many of my gay friends (all white), made fun of me for my supposed 'Jungle Fever' for falling in love with a black man. I didn't fall for him because he's black, but because he's so very smart and funny. Some of the comments that I heard were so demeaning and dismissive that I couldn't stay friends with them after hearing them. I really wish there wasn't so much racism amongst us gays. I see it here on DL, and I just sigh, and sometimes FF comments. But it's disheartening. This has been a very strange thread to read.

This book is on topic and recommended for your pleasure reading.

"[R38] you do realize that most women had little to no power in any marriage in the mid 1800's and before, don't you?"

Yes, R43, I'm perfectly aware that during much of recorded history, women had no choice over who they married, fucked, or bred children with, and that millions of women today still have no choice who they marry, fuck, or breed children with. But I'm also aware that even in societies where women have no rights after marriage, and where they're horrible vulnerable to abuse, they can still have a social status and role in the family that makes their lives different than that of a slave.

So yeah, if you want to know what it fees like to be a slave and whether a slave can ever love the owner who uses them as a sex toy, ask an actual slave. There are plenty in the modern world.

R66 Please see R52.

Is it true they bred slaves based on their penis size? So the more muscular slaves with larger cocks were bred to make new slaves? And these men had dozens and hundreds of children who were "gifted" as it were?

[quote]Toni Morrison seems to be much too fascinated with her own invention of a scene in BELOVED, in which a white overseer gets a blow job from a slave.

Was it a male slave? (Do you think we're mind readers??)

So does that mean that the white people working on the plantations got daily blowjobs from slaves? (Male or female depending on their preference.)

R52 I assume that you are condemning all slave owners from the dawn of history through current times with the same fervor?

The Kings who built the pyramids and other historical monuments throughout Asia and Europe were equally evil to the American slave owners yes? If that is your contention I can understand it.

Why go back into history to research homosexuality and slavery when it can be researched today. Go interview the slave owners in Africa and the Middle East.

R73 very good point. slavery in the Middle East (Saudi Arabia and Qatar) is alive and well :(

You think if the US gotten defeated that all of us will be exported as slaves to the middle East, Russia and China.

What?

Defeated when?

I knew a black woman who once told me she avoided white men because too often they would want to role-play master/slave sex. Something to think about

R77 That's very true. The same thing with gay white men as well. They have these sick fetish fantasies about black men and their bodies. It's as though we weren't human.

I know a lot of black men who gave up interracial relationships because of that very fact. Even if they don't act on it. They want nothing at all to do with gay white men. They. Gravitate towards other black men.

No one wants to be treated that way.

To be fair, there are people who actually DO want to be treated that way.

R70 that is true. That was one of the main reason for absent fathers and single parent mothers in the black community. Stromgnakd endowed black meannwwre forced to have sex with a lot of women to make more kids to work of plantation. It became normal. Also women has to had a lot of children too. That’s why older generations of black families had lots of kids. The effect of slavery remained. Also I do believe homosexuality exist during slavery.

Why do you think they were naked on the auction block?

Mandingo was a FTM.

Ladies....please. DL is used to trigger people's emotions. It's meant to be racist, homophobic, masagynistic etc. It's all tongue in cheek ladies, remember that Now...where is my slave, daddy needs another mint julep. Boy!

R52 pictured.

But without shitting myself saying in fake outrage that this is proof it's "okay to hate white people" as I sit in my mother's kitchen sneaking money out of her purse, I agree this is not a fun, insightful, campy, necessarily transgressive or power challenging topic.

It's racist shit-stirring. Getting off on combining the national shame of slavery and homophobia while we're under a white-nationalist federal government is not what any of need, except the hateful people who enjoy creating pain.

[quote]Why do you think they were naked on the auction block?

Checking for physical defects or afflictions was important. Also, buyers were interested in seeing if a slave had been whipped a lot.

I have to agree that this is a thread designed to stir up bad feelings and ill will, and in that way it has been quite successful.

NO ONE is proud of the US's past history re: slavery, but it really bothers me that so many seem to identify it as a white European issue. Every civilization since people began walking upright has practiced slavery and every "race" of humans have owned slaves. some even of their same race.

If we agree that all slave owners, be it in 750 AD in Europe, Asia and Africa or 1835 in the US were evil people, why do we celebrate the various creations built by slaves? Should we not shun all things built through the use of slavery?

I feel no sense of personal guilt over slavery in the US. Yes, I'm white, but none of my ancestors ever lived in slave-owning states or owned slaves themselves.

My ancestors haven't had any slaves since the days of the Vikings!

The difference is that in America (where slavery was a lot more recent than ancient Greece or wherever) slavery became very much a race-based thing. And the racial attitudes that came from centuries of enslaving mostly black people and thinking of black people mostly as slaves, still persist in some manner...

[quote]It would have been useful if the Southern "aristocracy" had produced a De Sade, someone who actually wrote about what he did, but nothing has come to light.

This thread makes me sick. I only read 6 posts. We see who you are OP. The hardcore racists always come out to play on DL on the weekend. Why slavery and homosexuality? Fags are deviant but ancient white fags of DL are the worst. Soon, you'll all be dead.

[quote]and where they're horrible vulnerable to abuse, they can still have a social status and role in the family that makes their lives different than that of a slave.

R68 Rubbish! Women and slaves suffered the same abuse and absence of status/rights in society. What the slave had that women didn't have was value as a commodity in society. Women were worthless chattel.

The photo at R81 is so sad. The universe always comes full circle.

NO ONE GETS AWAY WITH ANYTHING!!!!!!

You'll pay on the front end or the back end. And whites from the past slavery and Jim crow etc, and whites today who remain on the wrong side of history. Won't get away with it.

Slavery and America.....Yeah, Check out slavery and Brazil which is in South America.

This thread is about American slavery. The white man was at the helm of it and still is. It just looks different now.

It does look different. I see Clarence Thomas. I see Ben Carson. I see Herman Cain. I see Condy Rice. I see Elaine Chao. I see Mia Love. I see Mark Rubio. I see Ted Cruz. I see Ben Nighthorse...The slave owners have their own Rainbow Coalition.

R94 They are all powerless and you know it. Their white masters run the show. The same with Obama. Powerless token POC.

But you knew that already.

The reins of power is still 99% white.

[R94] You're no better than the white people you hate because you want their power.

And you'd be no different then them when you got it.

BTW, I have a feeling you're a white basement dweller,

One in ten people are slaves in North Korea.

This is exactly why I don't shed tears when frat boys die tragically. Their just going to grow up to be old white men in country clubs with way to much power and wealth doing everything they can to shit on everyone else who don't come from their background.

Trump, McConnell, Pence, Ryan, and the new supreme court justice asshole. This is what they all grow up to become. And poor white trash always vote these people in.

Muriel!

[quote]I sometimes wish I were a plantation owner, because of all the black dick I'd be getting.

That’s not that most homosexual sexual molestation was in the antebellum South.

Typically the slave would be forced to kneel and fellate the slave owner. This was communally done when slaves went on trips with their “masters” — if multiple masters and slaves were traveling in a group the slaves were lined up on their knees and there was a group fellation. Bizarre.

White men are evil, dangerous, and sick.

But we knew that already.

"But doesn't anyone here think that there were SOME taboo love matches?"

And how does somebody love in a situation where one person is owned by another person like cattle, exactly?

Is that what you tell yourself in the cow pasture? You and Fernando the bull have a "forbidden" love? Like Fernando craps out presents for you and that's proof of his love? Like, he would like to run away with you, but he dasn't!

Ah, dasn't. That's a word you don't hear anymore.

For good reason, IMO.

It makes me uncomfortable when an African-American man wants to engage in this kind of sexual role-play.

Listen carefully. Don't lay your troubles near mine.

R103 🙄

Just to think, the Democrat party defended slavery at that time. it was the party of Jim Crow and legal segregation; it founded the Klan. Intern Japanese during war war 2.

10 in 10 people in North Korea are slaves.

Who fucking cares what the "Democrat Party" did a hundred years ago r107? What party does Steve King belong to? What about David Duke?

[quote]oral histories

tee hee

R49. I agree 100 percent. I'm Caucasian but I hate white people also.

Understand this assholes: the ONLY race is the human race! I sometimes believe white men are the root of all evil- and money. And yes. I too think it's remarkable that black people don't have nothing but hatred and revenge and that ignorant g.d. Whites don't have more remorse. This world is fucked up!

R109 up yours you liberal cunt

R109 democrats try to stop every civil rights bill

OP.... How interesting you can't say mixed race people that you have to use the old slave World terminology. ****Shit, are ALL white gay men this racist? You love big black cock but hate black people?

R114 he was using the terms they used in those times, as he was talking about those times.

R81 I would have bought him up and snuck him to Canada. What a nice looking man. But we would have a secret little affair first

Wasn't anyone there for love? Is it possible that just like Sally and Tommy J. there could be a love affair? I mean we are talking the South here. All they got is cotton, slaves, and queers. Someone was making love. I think that about a lot of affairs between master and slave. America is the land of opportunity. And on isolated farms, which an average plantation usually was, people react differently to each other, close quarters and et al. I am sure many slaves were gay as well and maybe had relationships with other slaves. Puts a whole new spin on " jumping the broom".

R111 Africa is and has always been full of unspeakably evil tyrants such as Idi Amin and many more recent dictators who practiced acts far more dastardly than slave holding. Are you not aware that there are evil people of all skin colors? I say colors because you have stated your boundaries as to "race."

I never defend my own kind for the commission of bad acts, but I'll be god damned if I will sit silent while others verbally barbeque Caucasians without mentioning that evil comes in all colors. We are no better nor worse than any other people.

[later]up yours you liberal cunt

For that matter, anti-racism is a "liberal" position not tied to political party. Even when Republicans were the ones more supportive of civil rights, they were the "liberals" of the party.

R117 I would bet my entire inheritance that if Miss Sally Hemmings had been allowed to leave Monticello with her children and a handsome dowry of sorts she would have chosen not to do so. Of course the response from many to that opinion will be that she was suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. Maybe, but then so are any married women today who do not wish to give up the perks and benefits of marriage to a man of substance and means.

I believe that Sally and Tommy loved each other. It wasn't a love based on personal boundaries and equal power, but again, how many marital pairings of that time were? Sally likely had everything she wanted or needed and she had the heart of a brilliant and handsome man. I don't want to get into the "house vs field " slave thing(because it is awful) but does anyone truly believe that she would have preferred to be stuck in the miserably hot "out kitchen" toiling all day in servants' rags or even worse, in the fields picking tobacco? I think not.

Sally likely had a better life than 75% of the respectable white married women of that era, and I feel certain that if anyone dare lay a finger on her she would have been defended just as a white wife would have been.

Then again, she was one in a million. In no way am I implying that hers was the story of all "belly warmers and bed wenches." She was the 18th century equivalent of a lottery winner today.

that should have been MANY women today--not any women today

I'm hot for this topic.

Read any novel by Lance Horner or Kyle Onstott.

Much of 2000 year old novel "The Satyricon" is taken up with the narrator's description of the relationship between himself and his boy slave. The narrator is screwing the boy and thinks he's madly in love with the kid, and constantly complains that his slave doesn't love him in return. He says that other people's slaves respond to forced sex with love and adoration, why should he get the only slave in ancient Rome who doesn't love being raped?

I still feel tremendous sympathy for this fictional boy who would have been dead for two millennia if he'd existed in real life, the only thing in his life he could control was his heart. His body was his for his owner to use as he pleased, the only freedom and dignity the kid could claim for himself was to withhold the love his owner craved and demanded.

Black men in Africa rounded up these poor slaves for the slave traders.

And that is the main reason that the Hebrew Israelites LOATHE Africans. If you ever want an earful of pure hate, ask an Israelite what he thinks about Hamites.

Peckerwoods have been fucking African Americans, literally and figuratively, since the two first met.

R127 what's a peckerwood?

Shitty people do shitty things for shitty reasons.

But then I guess that is too simple for some people and they need to find nuances in that so there can be a "shitty, shittier and shittiest" chart list to argue about.

Hope this helps, r128