Has Barbra ever been properly diagnosed?

Have you OP?

I honestly just think she's a classic case of low self-esteem turning into narcissism. After all, true narcs are the most self-critical of us all.

"Refusing to be photographed from her right side. "

Doesn't everyone?

Babs is a dog but she's not crazy.

Why so many Barbra threads lately? Her new CD was a critical flop, and she's never playing Mama Rose, Grandma Rose or any other Rose (well, maybe second-hand).

Don't know what her diagnosis is, but I'm sure most dataloungers will come down with PTSD after seeing that disturbing GIF.

She clearly has OCD. If you read that book she wrote about building her houses. Such attention to detail isn't normal. She says she got over her perfectionism but on Alec Baldwin's podcast she has to stop in middle of it to tell a staff person to fix a lamp. She then wonders how people could pass by the lamp without fixing it immediately.

plus she painted Oprah's mike white.

"That can't be just your usual narcissism, or can it?!"

It's unusual narcissism, because she *was* a phenomenally talented singer, one of the best voices of that era. No soul or emotion to her songs, but that pitch and range was unparalleled. When a star has that much fame and success so early, of course they;re going to be a little batshit insane. Or a lot.

Despite what you think of her, pro or con, Barbra is very functional and does not need to be diagnosed.

directing herself in those movies probably made her self-absorbed.

I read Angelica Huston say that directing herself in a movie really screwed her up. She said spending all that time editing it and looking at her face from different angles was not healthy.

DL is sick- or rather people on it are. I still think quite a few of these lists are deplorables. The most successful woman ever in show business and probably the most talented, activist and philanthropist- in every media and every role. Her CD has only received bad notices from National Review, Breibart etc. otherwise good and selling as always. Her last tour setting arena records etc. hard to take for some of you- huh? Suggest you get diagnosed as well to find out why it’s necessary to tear down someone who has been putting her money and her mouth on the line on your behalf for decades. My guess is that some of you have no idea- dumb.

R11 Nuts was not a good film. Should have been a Made For TV movie.

R12 Agree! Streisand really is The Greatest Star.

Why does Richard Dreyfuss have top billing in the photo at r11?

Babs. The Greatest Star!

R15 She wanted her name to be on the right side of the cover. She never does left.

I can't wait for someone close to her to pen a Mamaleh Dearest-type of memoir after Babs kicks the bucket. That should make one hell of a read.

She's the biggest philanthropist in modern times!!!!

R12 is right. The same few right wing assholes are obsessed with Barbra, and spend their time on DL trashing her. It’s nuts.

They claim no one cares about her any more — yet they start multiple threads on her.

No, WALLS is not a critical flop. That is a lie. The mall comments are insane, made by guys who know nothing about it. They also know nothing about her philanthropy.

Babs is basically okay. She's a perfectionist which can drive people crazy. But she has accomplished more than most people can every hope to in 3 lifetimes. A very talented Diva.

Fuck off, OP. If only you had remotely any talent, much less hers.

Lots of these posts need a MARY!

r20, it's not "they," but one freak who says no one knows who she is anymore. I've blocked him and it shows it's one deplorable over and over.

Trust me, you don't need to be right wing to hate Barbra. There's plenty of us on the left.

Yes, because she's such an offense to the world, r25. Look at the crimes she's committed: egotism, insisting on being filmed from one side. Your priorities in the hate department are so relevant in this age. Tell ya what? Why don't you ignore her and all threads abut her?

She's obnoxious, overrated, out of touch and has always been overpraised. She is far from the biggest star of all time. She was maybe the biggest female star of the the 1970s, I wouldn't know. I was surprised at what a lackluster live performer she was when she came back and did concerts in the 1990s. She's preachy, humorless and wears grotesque and inappropriate costumes for such a homel old woman. Her voice is long gone but she insists on performing and treated like royalty. She was lapped many times by many other female singers in the last 30 years. Streisand has a very small fan base and not many people under 50 know who she is. She made 3 watchable films, only one of them memorable.

There are 50 other celebrities who have done more for "us." Barbra won't even admit she has a gay son.

[quote]he made 3 watchable films, only one of them memorable.

Which ones?

Ohh--r27 is missing here for me. Because I blocked this bitch long ago! Same old loon. Barbra is his life.

I enjoy her. I always have. I can still remember, back when I was a kid, 'Funny Girl' playing in the theaters downtown pretty much non-stop for a couple of years. And that was in the Midwest. It's actually sort of fun to introduce someone who isn't familiar with her to her work. My ex-BF had never seen any of her movies, I think. He's indulged me, and watched 'Funny Girl' and 'What's Up Doc?' with me, and I could tell he had a hard time figuring out what to make of her, but he couldn't help but admit that she could carry a movie, and deserved her success. I also think, to be honest, that he had never noticed a person with those kinds of ethnic looks in a major film before. That's actually one of the things I really respect her for, but she's taken a lot of (unfair, nasty) lumps over her entire career.

Stars I don't like I ignore. I don't go on threads like r27 does just to stir shit. It's because he's obsessed with Streisand that he does it. Literally every thread on her. And he says the same bullshit.

She's ridiculously talented, but her biggest crimes are that she can't always seem to make up her mind in a timely fashion and that she can get lazy. I think she'll admit these. She never really stretched herself as an actress. If she'd wanted to do Gypsy, she could have done it in the 70's-early 2000's. It would have been an easy sell then. To wait until she's decades too old for the role and doesn't have the voice or stamina for it, reeks of something off about her for sure. That's pure Norma Desmond territory right there.

She's never been self-aware and, for someone who was known for her comic timing in her youth, she seems to have lost her sense of humor decades ago. One can critique her personality issues and still admire her enormous talent. She's just made a lot more bad decisions than good ones.

Do you think she instructed Nick Nolte to fondle her ass in every shot they share in THE PRINCE OF TIDES?

Pretty much, R33:

"Nick played Tom Wingo, a Southern man who moves to New York to help care for his suicidal sister. He meets often with his sister’s psychiatrist Susan, played by Barbra.

Tom and Susan fall in love on-screen, and, as it turns out, Nick and Barbra were feeling the heat offscreen as well.

In his brand-new memoir, Rebel: My Life Outside the Lines, Nick Nolte reportedly reveals some of the intimate details of his relationship with the musical legend, and admits their on-screen relationship bled over into their real lives.

Nick first met Barbra in 1989, when he claims she invited him over to her house to read for the part of Tom Wingo. Barbra was also directing the film, and wanted to meet Nick beforehand.

As reported by the Daily Mail, the actor remembers visiting Barbra at her apartment in Manhattan before filming began, where he claims the two had deep talks about their characters’ romantic pull. In Rebel, Nick writes, “‘I was powerfully drawn to her just as she was to me, so much so that I knew that early on we needed to talk about the reasons why we shouldn’t slip into a romantic and sexual relationship with each other as we worked.”

Still, Nick claims he and Barbra found it hard to stay just friends when the cameras weren’t rolling. Nick claims Barbra often had him shoot scenes without any clothes on, and that the pair of them lived “in the fantasy of a relationship.” He knew their relationship was dangerous, but the chemistry was hard to resist. He writes, “We can live in the fantasy of a relationship and that will survive, but an actual physical relationship might not survive the film.”

One day, after filming wrapped up, Nick claims Barbra called him on the phone and asked him to move in with her. He was raising his son Brawley at the time, and said no. But Nick believes Barbra was inspired to call because she was watching the movie, and had fallen in love with Nick’s character Tom. She translated those feelings onto him, which created the hard-to-resist chemistry between them."

Nick Nolte hated her, and said so. So yes she insisted that her worship her soft focus gorgeousness and fondle her ass. Barbra's physiatrist drag in Prince of Tides was the same dress/suit she wore when she sang at Clinton's inauguration. Tight pinstripes, low cut and lots of leg. Because that's how shrinks dress when they lay you on their right tit. I said right NICK!

Mommy has the best tits and she invented round asses. I wasn't paid to say this.

[quote]Ms. Streisand admits that the character is an alter ego. "When I first read the book, I thought, Jesus, I'm perfect for this part," she says. "I identify with this woman completely, even to a line in the book that says she is in the middle of aging extraordinarily well."

I follow Jason on Instagram. He mostly posts about political liberal issues, which is endearing.

[quote]"I identify with this woman completely, even to a line in the book that says she is in the middle of aging extraordinarily well."

Holy shit!

Which other Jewish actresses would have been age appropriate in the early 90s? Debra Winger? Goldie Hawn (wouldn’t she have been terrible!)?

Of course Jane Fonda etc would have been great.

she was diagnosed years ago and certified insane. but she bought her way out of the nut house... nonetheless, she remains the biggest joke in show business.... all the $ in the world cant buy her the town's respect.

Her latest album is appallingly bad.

An adept whore, she is able by this point to wriggle out of a straight jacket in 2 minutes...

WITH WIG ON!

Remember how she fired dying Dudley Moore from The Mirror Has Two Faces without even telling him and made everyone think he's a drunk (his wife said that broke his heart)? I lost a lot of respect for Babula then.

Who the hell are her fans??!

Prince of tides was a bomb because nobody is interested in seeing a romance about an old bag.

Songwriting, acting, producing...what does she think...

Never liked her.

But then again, I'm a lesbian.

Maybe she's not so much crazy as she is rich enough to control and change the things she doesn't like, to manage tightly the things she can't change, and to create a world around her which meshes best with her idiosyncrasies and worldview.

As rich as she is, she can live in any bubble she wishes, even if she is disconnected from the everyday world.

There really are some crazy people on this thread- making up bullshit. What is wrong with them? Antisemitic? Trumpbots? And the OP? A troll.

Out of touch, maybe but who wouldn’t after decades of highest level of stardom success and popularity. Yet at the same time she is down to earth. I can’t explain it but this is how I see her.

Babs is a wonderful singer (that voice!), a mediocre actress (stiff and lacking spontaneity; takes herself way too seriously; that face is hard to look at for 2 hours) and a terrible director (no visual imagination; poor taste in material; sluggish pacing). Politically, she's laughably out of touch and insist on making a fool of herself. She actually believes that crooked, globalist neoliberals like the Clintons are sincere and good for the country. Well, they're good for wealthy people like her but not so much the rest of us.

Babs is DEFINITELY NOT the biggest female star of all time. Doris Day handily outclasses her in that regard.

On a personal level she's well-known to be a selfish monster - insensitive to everyone but herself.

Her fans are the craziest.

My gay penis became erect when I saw OP’s gif. Hubba hubba!

"Politically, she's laughably out of touch and insist on making a fool of herself. She actually believes that crooked, globalist neoliberals like the Clintons are sincere and good for the country. Well, they're good for wealthy people like her but not so much the rest of us."

Actually she is on the right side of history- in every aspect- and you are not. Mark my words. Most of us agree with everything she says politically and other out of touch people like the Obamas.

You do know that the Clinton Foundation provides more antiretroviral therapy in Africa than the entire US gov't or any other entity.

Cannot argue with someone like you spewing words like "globalist" as if it a bad word. And please- remind me on one indictment of the Clintons' in all their years in public office- name ONE for me. I can do a laundry list on Trump. Selfish monster? Then why have the same musicians and producers, management etc. been working with her for decades? Any how much of your income do you give away every year R51? Her tradition is 10% which she considers nothing special- Jewish tradition.

Are you gay R51?

[R53] Exhibit A to illustrate the "Her fans are the craziest" statement.

The troll is amusing and insane

No R54- I just hate people who make shit up. Not just Streisand- but many others. It's all over DL and the Internet- like FOX News. Makes me just as mad that R51 calls the Clintons "crooks" without one shred of evidence of the same.

[R56] You're the only person in the United States who doesn't know or won't acknowledge that the Clintons are crooked. Everybody knows. Delusional Babs fans. I love it how they try and re-calibrate classic standards of beauty to argue that their goddess isn't a total DOG.

I think she's a perfectionist, terrified of failure. That's why she hardly does any projects and takes forever to complete the ones she does choose.

She plays it safe with standards and tried 'n true popular songs. Original stuff is usually dated and out of sync with the times.

The latest album was probably a misstep; no one's going to want to hear that drivel in concert.

If I was Tony Bennett, Liza, Barbra... I would retire from singing.

I adore Doris Day, but she was definitely not bigger than Streisand. Barbra is the biggest-selling female singer of all time in the US, while Doris is not even in the top 25. Barbra has 2 Oscars, while Doris has none. And, of course, Doris was not the pioneer in Hollywood that Barbra was.

You can make the case that Doris is more beloved, but you cannot say that she's the bigger star. PeriodT.

[R59] Wrong, wrong, wrong. Doris Day holds the record for being the top female box office star for the most number of years. Adjust for inflation if you must. She was also the biggest female recording star of her day, having landed in the list of top ten singers from 1951-1966. She had many, many top ten hits, whereas Barbra's more of an album seller. The difference is that Doris ditched Hollywood but Babs needs the limelight to feed her monstrous ego.

Kelly Clarkson has the biggest and best voice in the business. Her vocal palette is vast and her abilities are stunning. No autotune or lip synching for her EVER. And she doesn't care if she's perfect, she cares about delivering the feeling of the song and the meaning of the lyric. She has more rasp and less crystal notes than when she started, but still has that amazing spinto soprano power and the best head voice in the game. She has become a better singer in her mid thirties. That's how it should be.

She just released Never Enough from the "reimagining" of The Greatest Showman. 35 years ago, this would have been on one of Barbra's albums. She would have had her claws all over it. It's not really Kelly's style, but it is Streisands. Of course Clarkson can sing anything and Streisand can't. Anyway I heard this today and it made me think of Bab's terrible new album and sad vocals and happy for Kelly that she has a hit song coming. Just like her version of It's Quiet Uptown from Hamilton, she brings a shimmering raw vocal and a non broadway, soulful beauty to the song. Barbra would have sang it "perfectly" in studio and voided the song of any real feeling. That's her specialty.

Go to link. Watch Kelly on Seth Meyers, New Year's Eve 2016. We cried and cried. Such a gorgeous, imperfect, emotional performance of a beautiful song. Kelly Clarkson is the best AND she is loved by everyone in and out of the business. The best chick and singer in the game.

Pink, Sara, Jessie J, Jazmine Sullivan, Beyonce, JHud & Gaga can sing for real too. Miley and Ariana are aiiigt.

Here's Mike Wallace (60 Minutes) interviewing BS, calling her "self-absorbed." Very contentious interview.

Interesting R63. She instantly turns on the sex appeal when he almost corners her. Then later she cries foul and says that a man wouldn't be asked that question? Streisand is not a feminist. She was a woman of enormous talent, wealth and power. She made 19 movies in 55 years, most of them terrible. She turned down or procrastinated over many better projects. She hated singing but shit one dreck album after another because it paid the bills, won awards and she didn't even have to promote her albums for about 30 years of her career. She had everything HER way and she is nothing but self absorbed. She was never a feminist, unless in old AGE. Before that she was a bossy bitch who used her body to get men to do what she wanted. Which male co star didn't she try to fuck? What female co star didn't she try to sabotage? She had men do her bidding and dirty work and mostly collaborated with the castrated. Her political comments are so off the mark and lacking in substance that she is regarded as the poster child for " A Limousine Liberal." The quick flash in her eyes when he says he didn't like her much and then the fast defense and the softening of her voice with the head tilt tell you a lot about how Babara sees herself and why it no longer works. Mike Wallace or Dick Cavett would ask Woody Allen the same question about the long history of analysis and self absorption in his work and life and the remoteness of personalities. Of course he would. At least Woody was prolific and funny and most often turned out good product. But Streisand has to paint herself the victim always because her only doll was a troll and she had to sleep on the couch. The real truth is it's because she's ugly. Every neurosis the woman has stems from her feeling of ugliness and her reaction and defiance to it. It is the flaw in all her films, this insistence that she is dynamically sexy and desired by all. She must suffer for being unusual but not before she is worshipped by the camera for 2 hours. The STREISAND BARBIE edition ain't happening Babs. It would be top heavy - and not from your fabulous tits either.

[quote] The STREISAND BARBIE edition ain't happening Babs.

Except it already happened.

Close-up view of Barbra Barbie.

Where are my fabulous legs? My curvy firm booty? My fabulous tits? Why doesn't my head turn to the right to show off my left, you know what I mean?

I don’t know why someone with her innate intelligence, confidence and talent would make a film like MIRROR-it’s like she was bullying people into believing that she was attractive. That gif in OPs post sums it up-it so didn’t belong in the movie. Or that her male students were staring at her boobs and suddenly she was so sexy...it was pathetic and totally beneath her.

Barbra on Hoarders-Trailer

Thanks R69. Maybe it will burn down. (Cher's house is dangerously close to being destroyed at this moment.) I love the Art Nouveau gate and that's it. Would make a nice headboard.

Barbra Streisand can neither read or write music or play an instrument. So how exactly does she "compose" full orchestral pieces?

Answer: she's a hummer and a liar.

Doris ditched Hollywood after she got forced into doing a TV show because she was broke.

And let's be real, no one under eighty even knows who the fuck she is.

[quote]And let's be real, no one under eighty even knows who the fuck she is.

Sadly true of Barbra.

Dolly Parton has almost 5 million followers on Twitter. Ms. superstar activist/feminist/movie star Barbra Streisand has close to half a million.

I'd clone pets and have underground malls, with her money. What's the point in accumulating mass wealth if you don't use it imaginatively?

She's like two sticks of buttah, lashed togethah in an unhewn mannah.

[R71] Regardless of how many people know who Doris is today, she was the bigger star. I'm talking box office, top ten hits and cultural reach, not awards and prestige. Doris could act circles around Babs, who early on had a vaudeville style without the vaudeville skill. She always strikes me as an amateurish actress and not in a good way.

What cultural reach has Doris had? Fifty years ago, perhaps. But now?

Julia Louis Dreyfuss wanted to be Barbra's BFF

[R76] What cultural reach does Mary Pickford have? Times change, styles change, technology changes and artists are left with an ever-decreasing group of torch-bearers. Once they're gone, poof!, the once omnipresent star is forgotten. Take a walk down Hollywood Boulevard as that Kinks song says. Doris is further along in the process than Babs, but Babs will inevitably disappear from earth like the pterodactyl. It's only a matter of time.

Mike Wallace said a lot about Barbra’s issues but even he had to admit that “It’s always pleasant to listen to that girl sing”.

Barbra is too busy suing people to stop them at looking at her house.

Shut up and sing Barbra. Everyone would have preferred that. Now she can't even do that.

Who the fuck is Doris Day?

This is another one of those threads like the Connie Stevens one where they try and pit an icon like Streisand against someone who had marginal fame, but has a rabid troll on the DL.

You could possibly make a case for Crawford, Hepburn, Davis and Ginger Rogers maybe. This Day woman, well, like Mimi Carey said

All the young gays (that Barbra pays) LOVE the new album. Queers be dancing to Barbara Streusel!

Doris' unparalleled run at the box office from 1948-1969.

Notice the end tally: NUMBER ONE BOX OFFICE HITS: 10, TOP TEN BOX OFFICE HITS: 38, TOTAL BOX OFFICE GROSS: $3,536,540,000.

Yes, you read correctly - over $3.5 billion in adjusted grosses. And that just her film career.

Barbra didn't come close to these numbers.

She definitely sees herself as a beautiful woman. I recently watched PofT and I know Nick Nolte's character fell for her for other reasons besides looks, but she also had the gorgeous husband. In TMHTF she was supposed to be beautiful after the transformation, except she wasn't. I remember she cast herself in the lead, but many people thought she was totally wrong for it and she was. I don't find her ugly, but a beauty she isn't and never was. I do admire the fact that she never fixed her nose. I remember reading she was scared it would change her voice. I always think back to Michael Jackson. So at least she put her craft before any vanity.

Would love hear from anyone who actually believes she has an Axis I diagnosis from the DSM…

[R83] That was cringe-worthy. But then again Barbra prefers that her fans genuflect before her with uncritical awe. Ick.

R84 Doris Day was the #1 box office attraction for 1960, 1962, 1963 & 1964. Combined movie and music sales, she set a record that has never been equaled by any other female in Hollywood.

[R88] Thank you! That matter is settled.

Yes, but Doris made MIDNIGHT LACE...one of the worst dramatic performances I’ve ever seen her do.

The Little Fockers

No wonder Barbra stans tried to ruin that recent Connie Francis thread - they can't stand the fact that Connie has always been very opened about her mental illness (in times when that wasn't a common thing to do) and even became a spokeswoman for the Mental Health America organization. She's also by all accounts a very lovely lady. Babs, on the other hand, continues to roam around untreated for whatever the hell she's got and is a nightmare to work with.

Also, Connie's always adored her gay fans, while Babs is famous for once jokingly dressing as a dominatrix on the set of Indiana Jones and using horrible gay slurs while doing that.

Fifty year old box office stats. Meanwhile, no Oscar, Grammy, Tony or Emmy for Doris. Streisand has walls full of accomplishments.

No ones dissing anyone R92, but if you're going to try and put them ahead of Streisand and smear her, expect her fans to fight back.

Axis II, R86. (NPD)

So what? Paul Williams had to sue cunty, ugly Babs. Her pussy reeks. James must do anal with her.

In my opinion, she does not have an Axis I DSM disorder. She's an extreme perfectionist and suffers from perfectionist paralysis. She's speaks her mind yet is easily hurt. She's insecure yet vain. She has a lot of talent and a lot of money. Her personal mall is ... I can't remember where I saw it, but she decorated a house that had a water wheel on the outside. The interviewer asked her whether she lived in the house and it became apparent that the house was basically a personal museum. I really wonder how she treats James Brolin.

Yet, we don't criticize someone like Jerry Seinfeld and Jay Leno who have huge car collections and who build an entire parking structure just for their own cars. Is BS any worse?

That's my unprofessional diagnosis.

R64 You have her down to a T!

R3 that's right

Doris Day was boinking Willy Mays.

HER SON WAS ALMOST SUCCESSFUL IN HAVING HIS CREEPY MOMMA PUT IN THE INSANE ASYLUM BUT SHE GOTS GOOD LAWYERS.

R83- oh what a wit you have! Yes, caught- Streisand has me in a retainer to defend her on DL.

How can you put a street vendor on retainer? I heard that Barbra once sent one of her lower assistant's boyfriends to buy up all the hankies and scarves from your cart though charlie! She used the bogus channel and hermes polyester patterns to delineate what part of her house the mexicans were assigned to clean. She could just call on the versace squad if things looked wrong in Ye Olde Ice Cream Shoppe. Of course they all ended up with rashes and pattern bleeds so Barbra had to sue you. So far from a retainer, you are under a cease and desist and a protective order. Rumor is you always walked around with Barbara Superman album and you licked her ass one too many times. And that room in your "room." Criminal Minds level of memorabilia. Streizand's famous litigiousness and not your oxygen tank is what finally put you out of the hankie selling business. To think you once worked at Barneys. Should have kept your hands to yourself Charlie. #MeToo

Doris Day was the top box office female of the early 60s. She favored comedic type movies. She now lives in Carmel and is active in animal rights. Furthermore, she has always been a nice person.

[R103] True - but to posit that ugly, weird Babs was anywhere near as successful or influential as Doris is ridiculous. Babs had her strange, peculiar run of not very good movies and recordings and it's long, long over. Babs' legion of fans in the industry make sure her crap charts high but it always falls just as fast and only resonates with them - the same Babs fanatics who are quick to argue that she's beautiful when the mirror tells another story.

Agnetha Faltskog has always sung better than Babs and always will. Babs has always had more bravado than talent.

And Agnetha has also cited Miss Connie Francis as her favorite singer ever. I don't recall her ever mentioning Babs in her interviews.

R105 I agree. She is also very down to earth

What's funny is that as HUGE of a celebrity Barbra has always been in the US, she's not all that famous overseas. She could walk down the street in Tokyo, Buenos Aires or Paris and nobody would really know who the fuck she is. If Madonna did that in any of those cities, she would be mobbed.

*The big disclaimer to remember when some Barbra fanatics try to tell you that she is the biggest selling female artist of all time is that it was only true in the U.S. Even that statistic is doubtful now. Madonna, Mariah, Celine, Whitney, Rihanna and Taylor Swift have all sold many more albums than Streisand worldwide. Adele, Gaga and Britney are not far behind either. All these female artists have more fame and much bigger fan bases than Streisand. And it didn't take them almost 60 years to best her in sales either. Celine Dion sold more records than anyone - male, female or group - for a whole decade.

R109, that’s a lot of lies in one post. Damn.

Nope, R110. There is not a single lie in my post @ R109. Some of us know of what we speak. It is all very easy to verify. But you won't bother because fanatics don't like the truth. A lot like Barbra herself.

Don't forget that the inimitable eternal Miss Connie Francis came before Barbra and all the rest of them as the largest selling female recording artist in the WORLD. That, too, is a fact.

Who the FUCK is Connie Francis?

Connie was savagely raped.

R113 One of the most beautiful and talented recording artists of the 1960s. She's around the same age as Babs, but Connie was already a record-breaking star when Barbra was still playing with a water bottle instead of a doll.

Connie Francis is basically forgotten.

She is basically unknown to anyone under 40.

[[R103]] True - but to posit that ugly, weird Babs was anywhere near as successful or influential as Doris is ridiculous. Babs had her strange, peculiar run of not very good movies and recordings and it's long, long over. Babs' legion of fans in the industry make sure her crap charts high but it always falls just as fast and only resonates with them - the same Babs fanatics who are quick to argue that she's beautiful when the mirror tells another story.

I wonder who this misanthrope is? Doris Day was a wonderful, is a wonderful movie star and box office queen at one point. She had some modest success as a singer and on a TV series. Why this odd comparison. Streisand is on both sides of the entertainment world as well- business and performance. Very different animals.

And if Streisand is so unknown in the world, why has she sold out arenas in Europe and Down Under, even recently, and won every major award in the world of entertainment- a few in Europe as well.

Do you live in a hole R109?

That's what MK Ultra will do to you.

Barbra is just a good old-fashioned eccentric. Like all eccentric's, she's best admired from a safe distance, and is no one you would ever want to have to deal with in person.

[R118] Modest success? Psycho Babs queen.

I wasn't expecting that face!

[R118] Doris' incredible singles track record on the U.S. charts, including 8 number one hits. Babs doesn't come close at 5. I'm only putting out these stats because you've claimed that Babs is the number one singer/actress of all time, a demonstrably false assertion that cannot be changed through breathless hyperbole and cherry-picking facts.

For the record, here a list of Babs' top Billboard hits. Again, not even close when compared to Doris.

In addition, the sublime and ineffable Miss Connie Francis garnered 16 top ten singles in her illustrious career and the largest selling international female recording artist beloved the world over to this day.

In general, Bab's does three things in her career as a vocalist: misinterpret Broadway classics ("I loves you Porgie" is priceless); over-sing big, overblown "sub-standards" with huge, syrupy string sections; and duet on schlocky, second-rate pop songs. She's never been at the forefront of popular music - she's always been old-fashioned, even when she was young (kinda like Liza). Her foray into pop-rock in STAR was shockingly bad. Although she undeniably possesses (or possessed) a remarkable instrument, her poor taste always gets the best of her. She's sort of like a certain kind of Tiffany lamp - it might be fabulously expensive but it still somehow seems tacky.

Except R126, many consider her still, the greatest popular singer who ever lived- just not you. And LOTS of her pop music is quite good and has SOLD, not singles, albums. I tend to like her esoteric stuff- and I think Lady Liberty and Take Care of This House are going to fall into that category late career. No singer make or female has recorded the breadth of music Streisand has recorded. I guess you just don't know. Useless talking to trolls- although you are not the craziest on this thread- I love Doris Day. I love Whitney, and Judy, and Aretha. And Ella, and Nat, Ray, and Freddie, George Michael, and Joni and Judy (Collins), KD, and Dylan (not everything). Don't even get me going on opera. I don't like Sinatra,, but I'm not an idiot. I know he was a great singer. I don't compare stars like you seem to need to do- mostly to demean or demonized and dehumanized a person. Question is why?

Barbra is not very famous internationally. Certainly not on the level of Tina Turner or Madonna. Barbra could never sell out a stadium in Germany or Buenos Aires.

But she did sell out in Germany and France and UK and Australia. Whenever she has toured she has broken records in almost all venues where she performed if popularity is your "gauge"- even as an "old lady". She has received the Legion of Honor in France as well. And the Medal of Freedom in the US. And I wonder why you compare fame? You do know that Streisand's career started in the 1960s and that by 1970 at age 28 she had won every major award in show business. Did you know she played Funny Girl on the stage in London? Did you know she has performed for every Democratic President since JFK? Do you know that she has recorded many or her "hits" (People etc) in multiple languages? Her career has been on the stage, screen, "record", and as a singer, actor, producer, director, writer.

[R127] Look, you seem like a nice guy who's knowledgeable about music and seriously passionate about it. I can respect that. But I'm not a "troll" and only made the Babs-Doris comparison to refute the claim that Babs is the most popular actress-singer of all time. She isn't - Doris is and I've furnished the links to prove it.

In sparring with Streisand fans I've noticed that they tend to follow certain lines of attack: you must not like Babs because you know nothing about quality music; you must be a misogynist who doesn't like women (from Hillary's playbook); you must be anti-Semitic; you must dislike Babs because you're jealous of her money and fame; you must dislike Babs because you're a sexist who judges women solely on their looks; you must dislike Babs because you hate yourself (shades of Babs and psychoanalysis). When all else fails, list Babs' awards, honors and sales figures. Yawn. No statistic is going to make me like her.

I am 52 years old. For my entire life Streisand's been shoved down my throat and I grew tired of it years ago. Because I'm gay I'm supposed to worship and adore her and identify with her because I too see myself as a loner and social outcast. I'm an not buying these goods. Although she has a beautiful voice, which I am the first to acknowledge, I find her crass, overbearing and tiresome. An angelic voice trapped inside a shrew.

Barbra isn't really a thing with anybody under 50.

R130 You stated it beautifully. And to add to her "awards" myth, the "industry" furnished her with a bullshit Tony in 1970 with a bogus category called "Star of the Decade." The category has since been abandoned and only existed to append an initial "honor" to this woman that was undeserved and unearned. Streisand lost her two genuine Tony opportunities, first to Phyllis Newman (who she has never forgiven) and second to Carol Channing. Her Oscar was also questionable in that Gregory Peck, head of SAG at the time, first allowed actors to vote for themselves beginning in 1968, which created the infamous tie with Hepburn. Had that amendment not been made to SAG rules, Hepburn would have been the winner. The Oscar for "Evergreen" is also circumspect and perhaps, the most fraudulent of them all, because there has been speculation that Streisand authored very little of the song, which was expanded and embellished by far more experienced composer. Rupert Holmes is alleged to have made a significant contribution to the tune that made it to #1. Would a co-credit have been such a bad thing to do? Would acknowledging Paul Williams as lyricist when performing the song live be such a bad thing, instead of referring to it as a "song I wrote?" Peter Matz, one of the finest arrangers in music, was instrumental to Streisand's early success and structured the arrangements on her first 7 albums. He was invited to collaborate with Barbra again in 1985 on "The Broadway Album." He was then denied his producer's royalties and never again spoke to Barbra for the rest of his life. Would it have been unkind to offer him his fair share of revenue for the work he contributed and the career he helped launch? Similar slights were done to Amy Irving and Shirley MacLaine whose voices were heard on the "Yentl" soundtrack and the "Timeless" concert respectively. Both stiffed. The MacLaine/Babs friendship has never been the same. Somehow there is a pattern here. People see it. Her fans have realized it and while many acknowledge what was a fabulous instrument and occasional sublime artistry (more often MOR tripe), they have recoiled from her endorsement and support. Has time rewritten every line? No. But Streisand often has. In her favor and suiting the history that she didn't necessarily make but wants you to believe she made. The same way she wants you to believe she is beautiful, though she is not and never was. Especially not on the inside.

[R132] Thanks and bravo!

[quote]In sparring with Streisand fans I've noticed that they tend to follow certain lines of attack: you must not like Babs because you know nothing about quality music; you must be a misogynist who doesn't like women (from Hillary's playbook);

FREEPER

Day is a staunch Republican, BTW.

And Marie Dressler was bigger than all of them.

We have the winner.

Bravo R130. Bravo R132.

[R134] Non-playable character (NPC). This has nothing to do with politics and you know it. Grasping at straws.

I can't believe that anyone would not realize that Doris Day was the biggest box office star of the 60s. She was.

R138 The 50s and early 60s. Doris continued to receive offers to sing and act in films well into the 1990s and early 2000s. She refused all offers. The thing I admire most about Doris, who is still with us at 96, is that she knew when to walk away. And she walked away a star and with dignity. She didn't leave her fans with memories of a washed-up wisp of what she had been, or desiccated windbag recordings that she still had the balls to charge money for. She learned the most important lesson that life has for all of us, and it's knowing to let go and move on. But to see that, some may have to dismantle their own personal walls, like those surrounding Babula's 17 glorious acres on Zumirez Drive.

[R139] Excellent post. Classy exits aren't something most people are familiar with in these days of social media and saturation messaging.

As a consumer of current entertainment, I think we need to clone HER.

R141 I'm sure Barbra agrees with you. Babs probably had her dogs cloned so she could test the technology and see if it will work on her too one day.

I'm actually surprised that she's only had one kid (and Baby Jason will never be able to give her a grandchild, for obvious reasons). Megalomaniacs like her usually procreate like crazy, because they will this primal need to leave behind their DNA, in as large quantity as possible.

Barbra may still have more children, after she films Gypsy.

It's funny that someone upthread mentioned Barbra as old-fashioned. I had never seen Happening In Central Park, and was surprised. She was in great voice, but seemed to be playing the Fanny Brice character in her banter- unless that's how she actually is.

But the bad wiglet and outfits were so uncool for 1967- she seemed like a yenta from Florida.

Not my cup of tea.

Sadly, I do think Barbra had a bit more success than Liza, although both were definitely old fashioned when they came on to the scene. They sung showtunes and standards and those were already going out of fashion a bit. They survived for a good decade each before really producing bad films and schlocky recordings/concerts. They were never very good about merging with the times, but they're both incredibly talented. It's just a shame that they might have really been better utilized a few decades before they came on to the scene.

Well, she’s no Merle Oberon, that’s for sure.

She's no Marie Osmond at this point.

She'll always have what few elder queens and Jews are left to buy her crappy music and see her shows.

R130 and R132 are sad. Pathetically sad.

R130, Barbra was shoved down your throat your whole life? You poor thing. I don’t know how you get up every morning to face the day. If she’s impacted you this much, I’d love to see your therapy bills from dealing with life’s real struggles.

I won’t defend Barbra here. I’ve alreay done it before, and it’s useless with people who despise Streisand this much. I’ll just never understand someone who’s so ANGRY and ANNOYED with a performer that he’ll post book length criticisms of her, from her nails to her songs to her looks to her working relationships to everything else. Somehow it’s a HUGE flaw that a 76 year old singer isn’t known to a younger audience. How absurd.

What the FUCK did this woman ever DO to you??? I just don’t get it.

Everyone has their favorites. If you prefer Cher or Doris Day or Aretha, have at it. But 10 paragraph bashing of Barbra while you celebrate Doris Day? That’s fucking NUTS.

Love Doris Day = a few million.

Love B.S. - 3 dedicated DL fans bout to drop dead.

R150, are you R130 or R132?

Has it been asked if her pussy stinks?

Think I'll drive R132 and others of the same ilk a little nuts- her CD was at #2 in its first week behind Star is Born, her previous 2 started at #1 and her last tour sold out even at the high prices. Guess only us old queens and Jews could afford, huh? (but what do older adults and Jews matter- they are aren't young and X'tian, are they?)

R149, I too am clueless where the bile comes from for this woman who has put millions into GLTB rights and HIV philanthropy as well as endless statements and speeches in the last 30 years for gay rights including marriage. Doris Day seems like a lovely person who has not had such an easy life (spouses and son making off with her money), but really- what's that obsession about? Yes R127 is me- I often forget to sign. I'm sane by the way- very sane to the point of being boring I'm sure. Streisand and McClaine by the way remain fast friends and continue to celebrate birthdays together. I have a little mole in Streisand's life (hee hee), a great friend of hers since she was 18 and making the rounds in NYC. Many other artists, entertainers, athletes (Roger Federer) etc I admire just as much as Streisand and I always defend them. For some reason she really gets to people- probably because she is so successful, unabashedly Jewish, a woman, and speaks her mind in politics and in the male dominate world of entertainment.

[R153] It's ironic that this post contains exactly the tactics I cited that Babs' crazed fans employ in defending her (cite stats; make accusations of anti-Semitism; claim her detractors are jealous, etc.). Thanks for making my job easy.

Babs "philanthropy" = TAX WRITE-OFFS. That why she's donated her home and land to the Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy (or whatever it's called) after her demise - she struck a deal that she wouldn't have to pay taxes on it during her lifetime if she bequeathed it to them. Keep blowing smoke up her big butt.

I posted a link in a previous thread, but Barbra could NOT sell her previous home(s) despite months being listed and price reductions. No one wanted her tacky taste- hence the donation.

R155. Stop being so utterly stupid and poorly informed. In fact, just STFU.

Just asking what it is that makes people hate R154. It was others who said only old people and Jews like her. Sounded kind of antisemitic to me. And I'm used to being put down because I'm 65. Heck, I'm lucky to be 65.

Anyone who is philanthropic writes off their gifts. Any money put into a Foundation (when Streisand funds her foundation) is a write off. It is a deduction from income lowering the taxable amount. Charity enabled in this manner is responsible for all the great education institutions, museums and great medical centers among many other things in our nation. Streisand would be more wealthy if she gave away nothing, I know exactly how it all works because I too donate regularly on a much smaller scale. You cannot write off political donations (to campaigns). Streisand of course gives enormously to Democratic candidates as do many of us.

Where does the anger and hate come from?

[R158] Doing it again - accuse others of "hate." It's really very funny. I guess you just don't see it. I am laughing writing this. I do get a kick out of delusional Babs fans. They are hands-down the nuttiest. And most humorless (like their goddess).

Another article about Babs donating the place she couldn't sell- with no endowment.

Such a compassionate empathetic woman so in touch with the least fortunate among us. Barbra's deployment to USO work where she entertained the troops in Afghanistan and lived in a tent and ate canned beans for 2 months are testament. Barbra's pushing around an upright piano in a downtown Brooklyn VA hospital singing softly to the homeless veterans for no pay and no press are also evidence of her humanitarianism. Her journeys to AIDS hospices in the 1980s where she remained awake for 72 hours lullabying the men who spend hundreds if not thousands on her music were also well documented. Forgotten is the woman who waltzed into a well-known NYC restaurant with an entourage back in the 1980s, ate and drank heartily, ran up a bill of over $1200 and left a five-dollar tip! That's a generous, benevolent, and altruistic spirit who doesn't like anybody lying to her except when they're believing HER lies. Abhorrent. Insufferable. And yes, enough is enough.

[R161] My sides! Beware the wrath of Barbra's flying monkeys, who are cooking up a raft of statistics at this very moment to strike you down. The first part of your brilliant post reminds me of the REAL Marlene Dietrich. She was a woman who showed courage.

R161- sick puppy

Babs would be far richer if she never donated a penny! Can't sell your ugly house for $15 million? Donate and get a $5 million write-off!

LMAO at the guy who laughs at the “delusional Streisand fans” while he apparently LIVES to trash her on gay message boards.

You cannot make this shit up.

There's something wrong with him R165.

Just one message board.

There is a similar, and maybe the same troll, trasher on Connie Francis threads.

R166 Sometimes the basher is the biggest fan of the artist. In the early 2000s, there was a person who bashed Connie Francis on message boards. He was written up in his city's paper in Ohio when he booked Connie at his college without her knowledge or her manager;s knowledge. He had been stalking her at concerts. He was an obsessed fan who had been bashing her. People get a charge out of bashing their obsession.

her servants call her turd face behind her back.

MONSTER, UVE NO IDEA

diagnosed as a cunt psycho flipped out goomba.

Barbra experts, I’m genuinely curious: are the horror stories she tells about her neglected childhood and “cold” mother true or are they fiction to sell her “social outcast who rose to become a legend storyline”?

*read several conflicting articles about her childhood

R172, I think the stories are basically true. Cold mother, hard on Barbra and very sparse with praise and affection, jealous when Barbra had success.

I think the edges of the stories have changed over the years with different details added and subtracted, but the essential story has always been the same.

Barbra hasn't looked like Op's picture since the boys came back from beating the Kaiser.